All-In Podcast

Fed Hesitates on Tariffs, The New Mag 7, Death of VC, Google's Value in a Post-Search World

Jason Calacanis and Philippe Laffont on fed Waits, AI Surges: Tokens Outweigh Tariffs, VC Gets Squeezed.

Jason CalacanishostDavid SackshostChamath PalihapitiyahostDavid FriedberghostPhilippe LaffontguestPhilippe Laffontguest
May 9, 20251h 36m
Federal Reserve policy, tariffs, and liquidity risksConsumer sentiment vs. hard economic dataAI tokens, compute demand, and AI as macro growth driverGoogle’s search decline, Gemini, and the innovator’s dilemmaThe evolution from ‘Mag 7’ to a new 25-company indexAntitrust policy, Lina Khan, and the ‘death’ of classic VCPhilippe Laffont’s interval fund and hybrid public–private investing

In this episode of All-In Podcast, featuring Jason Calacanis and David Sacks, Fed Hesitates on Tariffs, The New Mag 7, Death of VC, Google's Value in a Post-Search World explores fed Waits, AI Surges: Tokens Outweigh Tariffs, VC Gets Squeezed The episode blends macroeconomics, AI disruption, and venture market structure, anchored by guest investor Philippe Laffont of Coatue. The besties debate the Fed’s decision to hold rates amid Trump’s tariff regime, arguing politics, liquidity risk, and new tariff-driven fiscal dynamics are all in play. They then pivot to AI’s impact on Google search, the potential decline of the current ‘Mag 7’ market leaders, and the rise of a new basket of 25 critical companies spanning public and private markets. Finally, they examine how aggressive antitrust policy and the collapse in exits are killing traditional venture incentives, and Laffont outlines his new Berkshire-like interval fund aimed at democratizing long-horizon tech investing.

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Fed Waits, AI Surges: Tokens Outweigh Tariffs, VC Gets Squeezed

  1. The episode blends macroeconomics, AI disruption, and venture market structure, anchored by guest investor Philippe Laffont of Coatue. The besties debate the Fed’s decision to hold rates amid Trump’s tariff regime, arguing politics, liquidity risk, and new tariff-driven fiscal dynamics are all in play. They then pivot to AI’s impact on Google search, the potential decline of the current ‘Mag 7’ market leaders, and the rise of a new basket of 25 critical companies spanning public and private markets. Finally, they examine how aggressive antitrust policy and the collapse in exits are killing traditional venture incentives, and Laffont outlines his new Berkshire-like interval fund aimed at democratizing long-horizon tech investing.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

7 ideas

The Fed is prioritizing liquidity stability over equity-market support, with politics likely constraining rate cuts.

Philippe views the Fed’s decision not to cut as consistent with a solid real economy, noting strong consumer spend despite weak sentiment. Chamath agrees the Fed is watching liquidity, not stock prices, but argues key subprime and credit indicators are ‘blinking yellow,’ and that Powell may be delaying cuts to avoid appearing to help Trump politically rather than reacting purely to data.

Tariffs may create a durable revenue stream that reshapes fiscal and monetary decisions.

Friedberg highlights the UK trade deal’s 10% tariff on imports as a template: sustained tariff income could fund tax cuts, impact GDP and employment, and complicate the Fed’s incentive to cut rates into what might become a structurally different economy. Philippe adds that retailers expect only ~50% of tariffs to pass to consumers, muting the inflation impact while still raising government revenue.

AI ‘tokens’ and compute demand are emerging as a more powerful market driver than tariff fears.

Laffont frames ‘tokens >> tariffs’: Microsoft processed ~100 trillion tokens in Q1 (50T in March alone), and there is a broad chip and compute shortage across his portfolio. He argues that initial market anxiety about an ‘AI bubble’ is giving way to evidence of real usage and CapEx, suggesting AI’s growth can outweigh damage from tariffs over the next 1–2 years.

Google faces a classic innovator’s dilemma as AI chat cannibalizes search, and slow product courage may be its biggest risk.

Eddy Cue’s revelation that Apple’s search volume fell for the first time in 20 years—because of ChatGPT and Perplexity—triggered a $100B wobble in Google’s market cap. The group agrees Google’s Gemini models are strong, but Chamath warns that losing even a modest share from a ‘99%’ dominance, while under-investing in front-end Gemini integration, risks ceding the new AI interaction layer to OpenAI and others. They argue Google must aggressively front-load Gemini into properties like YouTube, Workspace, and Gmail, ideally with founder-led ‘taste’ and courage.

The ‘Mag 7’ era is ending; the real future index may be a 25‑company mix of public and private giants.

Philippe notes that markets moved from ‘FANG’ to ‘Mag 7,’ but rapid AI-driven change means those baskets are outdated. He informally targets a list of ~25 companies—some public, some private like SpaceX, Stripe, OpenAI—as the true future leaders. The right way to own them is via vehicles that can span public and private markets rather than being forced into public-only, index-heavy allocations.

Aggressive antitrust enforcement and a collapse in exits are structurally undermining classic venture capital economics.

The hosts show post‑2021 IPO and M&A data flatlining and argue Lina Khan’s FTC has scared boards away from even discussing acquisitions, removing ‘singles and doubles’ that traditionally returned capital. Chamath contends that when LPs can’t get liquidity via IPOs or M&A, they rationally stop funding VC, choking off risk capital exactly when AI requires it most. Philippe adds that capping big-company upside or blocking M&A also kills the power-law lottery that motivates founders, VCs, and the institutional LPs (pensions, endowments, foundations) behind them.

Interval funds and permanent capital structures may be the next evolution of tech investing for non-institutional investors.

Laffont describes launching an ‘interval fund’ seeded with $1B from the Bezos and Dell family offices, targeting a Berkshire-like mix: roughly thirds in cash, public equities, and private investments over time. The fund charges lower fees (around 1.25% and 12% carry) in exchange for quasi-permanent capital, allows periodic redemptions instead of 10-year lockups, and is accessible at much lower minimums (around $50K), aiming to democratize access to the future ‘Mag 25’ while giving him flexibility to own both public comps and private leaders.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

We have this ratio at Coatue where we divide hard news by sentiment. It’s the first time where the news is so good and the sentiment is so bad.

Philippe Laffont

Tokens are much greater than tariffs. At some point tariffs go away… what are we left with? We’re left with tokens.

Philippe Laffont

If you look at the Mag 7, that was one correlated basket. Now that correlation has broken down, the real question is: what is the new Mag 25?

Chamath Palihapitiya

If you marginalize the upside, you’ll have a stagnant society of marginal things. You need people willing to buy these lottery tickets.

Chamath Palihapitiya

If I can compound capital at 12.5% incentive fee for a very long time, it’s better than 20% for a short period of time.

Philippe Laffont

QUESTIONS ANSWERED IN THIS EPISODE

5 questions

Philippe, can you walk through a concrete example where your ‘hard data vs. sentiment’ ratio at Coatue gave you a contrarian entry point that worked particularly well—or failed?

The episode blends macroeconomics, AI disruption, and venture market structure, anchored by guest investor Philippe Laffont of Coatue. The besties debate the Fed’s decision to hold rates amid Trump’s tariff regime, arguing politics, liquidity risk, and new tariff-driven fiscal dynamics are all in play. They then pivot to AI’s impact on Google search, the potential decline of the current ‘Mag 7’ market leaders, and the rise of a new basket of 25 critical companies spanning public and private markets. Finally, they examine how aggressive antitrust policy and the collapse in exits are killing traditional venture incentives, and Laffont outlines his new Berkshire-like interval fund aimed at democratizing long-horizon tech investing.

Chamath, you argued Powell is ignoring ‘blinking yellow’ liquidity indicators for political reasons; what specific metric or event would convince you the Fed had waited too long?

For Google: if you had to choose one surface—YouTube, Chrome, Android home screen, or Gmail—as the primary Gemini front door for the next two years, which would you pick and what exact product changes would you deploy first?

To all of you: how would you redesign U.S. antitrust policy to protect consumers from genuine monopolistic abuse without killing the ‘singles and doubles’ M&A that makes venture economics work?

Philippe, in your new interval fund, how will you decide when a hyped private AI company (e.g., humanoid robots, autonomous driving) is priced too richly—even if it looks like a future ‘Mag 25’ member—and what guardrails do you use to avoid repeating 2021-style excesses?

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

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