Girish Mathrubootham: Biggest Product and Pricing Lessons from Scaling to $597M in ARR | E1142

1. 0:00 – 1:26

   Intro

   1. GMGirish Mathrubootham0:00

      The first thing is, what gives them the right to win in that market? You have to have spent a lot of time in the problem domain to be able to solve that problem. Number two, craftsmanship. Everything that they do, whether it's a deck that they send or a product mark that they have, can I see them to be world-class? Because you cannot win in a global market without being truly world-class products. And then their ability to hire a great team. The great founders who go the distance are the ones who are able to build a great team. If you hire a great team, the work will get done.

   2. HSHarry Stebbings0:30

      Ready to go? Girish, I am so looking forward to this. I have spoken to so many mutual friends before we do this. So thank you first for joining me today.

   3. GMGirish Mathrubootham0:50

      Oh, thank you for having me.

   4. HSHarry Stebbings0:51

      Now, I- I think that great entrepreneurs are shaped early, Girish, and so I want to hear, how would your parents and how would your teachers have described a young Girish?

   5. GMGirish Mathrubootham1:01

      I don't think they would be very fond, uh, of me at that time. Uh, I- I was always, uh, the naughty, the revolutionary, uh, uh, kid, uh, like who wouldn't fit in. I've been, uh, pulled up by my teachers, uh, several times. Uh, like, I've been asked to leave the class in engineering, uh, so- so I think, uh, I- I was always the one who didn't fit in, or- or at least, uh, didn't try

2. 1:26 – 4:28

   Founding Freshworks

   1. GMGirish Mathrubootham1:26

      too hard.

   2. HSHarry Stebbings1:27

      (laughs) Well, listen, I- I think naughty boy is always a good start to any schooling career. Uh, we look at FreshWorks today, and it's this incredible business. Every business starts somewhere. 2010, it was not obvious. (laughs) Take me to the founding moment of FreshWorks. How did- how did that come to be, and what was that origin story?

   3. GMGirish Mathrubootham1:46

      Before the origin story is, uh, I- I spent almost 10 years of my career building products. Uh, I was an accidental product manager. My boss, uh, threw a challenge to me saying, "Hey, Girish, you're an authoritative person. You're in marketing, which is a very concentrative role, so you should try building products." I went and Googled for the term product manager roles and responsibilities in 2001, and- and, uh, or 2002, I think, and- and that's how I stumbled upon being a product manager, and I really fell in love and created multiple products. Uh, the FreshWorks origin story, I think, uh, there are two stories in it. One, uh, in 2009, I was moving back from Austin, Texas to, uh, Chennai, India, and, um, I- I was shipping all my household goods, uh, back, and, uh, amongst them was my prized possession, a 40-inch Samsung LCD TV. And, uh, long story short, two and a half months later, my stuff arrives, the TV comes broken. I thought, okay, I've bought shipping insurance, so it should be fairly easy to, uh- uh, kind of, uh, call the shipping company and get the insurance process claimed. And, uh, five and a half months of back and forth submitting multiple documents, they simply wouldn't, uh- uh, process the claim. And, uh, so I went and shared my experience on, uh, uh, an online forum, which is where I originally got the reference for the shipping company. So I wanted to really, uh- uh, hurt their lead gen, uh, because I had a bad experience. And, uh, as expected, the community started engaging, and, uh, um, the president of the company came and apologized the same day, and the next day money was in my bank. Backstory here is, uh, in my career, uh, I have built, uh, four customer support help desks in different, uh, categories, all on prem, and what happened to me in my life was something which was intriguing. Because, you know, in customer support, when you call a call center, when you call your cable company, as a user, you always feel powerless, right? Like, you- it's you, one person, against a big, uh, giant company. But here, what happened in my life was, hey, I was able to take on a much bigger company, share my story, get other users to come and, uh- uh, see what's happening, and then force the company do the right thing. So, uh, I sensed a paradigm shift in the power dynamics here. So when I started researching, uh, I- I ... The first thing I found was, on YouTube, there was, uh- uh, United Airlines Breaks Guitars. There was a song by a musician, I don't know if you've seen that, it's called United Breaks Guitars. Uh, so, uh, this was happening on YouTube, this was happening on blogs, so that's where the idea to build a fresh help desk came about. That's why the first product and the company was called Freshdesk. And- and, uh, so they- we launched in, uh,

3. 4:28 – 6:31

   Product Market Fit & Pricing Strategy

   1. GMGirish Mathrubootham4:28

      2010.

   2. HSHarry Stebbings4:28

      Talk to me. So we launch FreshWorks 2010. What happens then? Do we have, like, immediate product market fit? Is it very clear that it's working?

   3. GMGirish Mathrubootham4:36

      I launched the company in 2010. Um, we launched the product in June 2011. I'll tell you what happened. Uh, uh- uh, March 18th and 19th were very, very important days, uh, where, uh, we were a small team of six people, uh, like, and- and I was not coding. Uh, I was doing everything else, right? So one of the things I was doing was I was trying to participate in an AppSumo contest called the Lean Startup Context- uh, Contest, where the prize was $50,000 if you write a blog post on how your startup is a lean startup. So, while I was waiting for the product to get ready, I was, uh, as the CEO and marketer, I was trying to do these things to see if I could get some money. And, uh, I actually wrote a nice post on, uh, Hacker News, uh, on how a simple comment on Hacker News made me quit my, uh, comfortable job and start a startup. So, I- I shared that story and posted it on Hacker News. It went viral on, uh, March 18th. It stayed on the- as the first post for, like, three, four hours, and on the top page for, like, uh- uh, more than, uh, a day, which is pretty incredible on Hacker News. And, uh, I had a website with a simple WUFO form. Uh, the product was not ready. There were so many people who were coming in and filling out those WUFO forms. Like, hundreds of users had already signed up. So I talked to my team on March 19th and- and said, "Hey, we have all these people showing up at our door. Can we cut down our scope and release something quickly and start engaging with these users?" So March 24th, uh, we put out a beta. Uh, uh, or- or- or at least an alpha, which we started sending out to a few customers. May 15th, we, uh, launched our beta version with 500, uh, people trying our product. Um, by-... August, uh, we had, like, 70 customers. Uh, so we had 100 customers in 100 days, 200 customers in 200 days, uh, even while we were, like, we have not yet, uh, raised, uh, funds. Uh, so we were actually off to a,

4. 6:31 – 13:08

   Global Expansion & Indian Market

   1. GMGirish Mathrubootham6:31

      a great start.

   2. HSHarry Stebbings6:31

      Help me out here, 'cause we often hear the trope that you should always be embarrassed of your V1. Were you embarrassed of your V1 when you look back now? And do you agree with that scope or do you actually think that you should just ship as soon as possible?

   3. GMGirish Mathrubootham6:45

      So, so I actually was terrified with the alpha release that we put out. I'll tell you, even though we had like three- uh, 300, 400 users who had signed up, I was worried that the product would crash, so I first sent it out to five people who had signed up way back in October, and then nothing happened, nobody came. And then I sent it to 15 people, and then I sent it to 30 people. So, so I was trying to see, make sure that, hey, the, the, uh, servers wouldn't crash, uh, because suddenly, uh, 100 people are coming in, right? And, uh, I wouldn't say I was embarrassed. Uh, but today if you look at the product and if you look at what was there, yes, uh, you could say that. Uh, it, it... But one of the things that worked well for us was we had priced our product very low. So we were fishing in a very different, uh, uh, pond.

   4. HSHarry Stebbings7:28

      Mm-hmm.

   5. GMGirish Mathrubootham7:28

      Uh, so our product was priced at $9, $19 and $29 per agent per month. That was the highest. Our competition, the lowest price was $29 a month to get started, right? So, so which means, uh, we had basic functionality that did its job. Like you can call it a minimum viable product, uh, I call it minimum desirable product. Something that'll work well, people are happy with the UI, they're happy with the price. So, uh, and, and, and not surprisingly many of the early customers that we got were really small, uh, SMB customers, uh, or educational institutes who didn't have large budgets, and my learning as a product manager has been that you can always grow into, uh, a much higher price point, you can build more features and create all these enterprise versions. Uh, but when we started, we were, uh, really solving for that SMB customer with a basic product.

   6. HSHarry Stebbings8:17

      Do you think it's much easier to start low and go up than it is to start high and go down?

   7. GMGirish Mathrubootham8:22

      Oh, start high and go down never, never works. In the history of software you can tell me which company has succeeded in starting at enterprise and, uh, actually winning an SMB. It's not happened. But, uh, if you look at, uh, many companies, including Salesforce, uh, uh, and, and Freshworks, uh, we have all... And, and now you can see, uh, HubSpot and, and most of the, uh, companies always start small and then it is possible to build over time and go up.

   8. HSHarry Stebbings8:46

      I think there's a couple of different aspects I just have to dig in on here. You, you also chose to be global from day one. Like, if I was advising you, Girish, which is why I should never be advising you, I would have said, "That's a terrible idea. We should focus on a very specific region. We should dominate it. We should build brand." Why did you decide to be global from day one, and what are some lessons from that choice?

   9. GMGirish Mathrubootham9:06

      Yeah. We went global from day one, conscious choice. We had, uh, seven cust- when we had seven customers, I think they came from four different continents. First customer was Atwill College, uh, from Perth, Australia. So, um, see, the fundamental lesson that I learned in life was taught to my- to me by my boss. He said, "Girish, it's easier to earn $1 than earn ₹1." So, and, and you have to have worked with Indian customers to really understand how hard it is to, uh, um, do business, uh, with, uh, customers in India, right? Especially, uh, when you're an early stage product, uh, your roadmap will go for, uh, uh... they would hijack your roadmap, right? So, and, and, but if we win globally and then go to India, like, th- the chances of success are actually even better. Like, if you see most of the, uh, uh, e- even Indian startups who are doing well, like I would say BrowserStack, Chargebee, uh, some of the newer age companies, uh, they're all global companies who first won globally and then, uh, went in India.

   10. HSHarry Stebbings10:03

       Ju- just help me understand though, why is that? Is that because Indian markets need social validation from external international markets before they will buy? Is it... wha- what is the reasoning behind that? I'm just interested.

   11. GMGirish Mathrubootham10:14

       So I, I think, uh, to some extent that could be true, but also India, uh, Indian customers are used to a services mindset. Uh, like if you go to US or Australia, customers there know that they are buying a, a, a shrink wrap product. They know that, "Hey, um, the product is the product. If I like it I'll buy it. If I don't like it, I don't buy it. And, and if I have some feedback, I'll give the feedback. If I need a feature, I'll ask and wait." Imagine going to Microsoft office and, uh, and, and asking for a feature, like, "When are you going to get it?" Uh, so, uh-

   12. HSHarry Stebbings10:45

       (laughs) yeah.

   13. GMGirish Mathrubootham10:45

       ... I think, uh, global customers have that awareness. Indian customers have been, uh, used to a lot of services mindset where they would say, "Hey, why don't you come to my office, I'll tell you what needs to be built and you build it."

   14. HSHarry Stebbings10:56

       Is there anything that you would do differently about your geographic entre- expansion, sorry, knowing all that you do now? Or looking back?

   15. GMGirish Mathrubootham11:03

       I would, uh, do exactly the same thing, because at the end of the day one of the reasons for Freshworks' success is the market, right? So when you are servicing a large market and you're able to service it with the right unit economics, uh, that's the best formula for a, a startup to win, uh, even if you have, uh, let's say average, uh, COs like me, so... (laughs)

   16. HSHarry Stebbings11:24

       When you were priced so much lower than everyone else, how were you able to have attractive c- unit economics so early with such smaller ACVs?

   17. GMGirish Mathrubootham11:32

       So I think, um, you have to understand the whole unit economics of, uh... If you break down the CAC, the customer acquisition cost, uh, for, uh, a, a SaaS startup that is being built in India versus the US, so in the US the CAC would be two third sales and one third marketing, because salespeople are so expensive if you're sitting in San Francisco and, or, or even London for that matter. Uh, what we did was, uh, what is today known as product-led growth, but we d- the term wasn't coined, uh, back then. Uh, so when we put out the product... Uh, so we actually do a lot of SEO work, uh, and, uh, Google Ads and, and stuff like that, and we, we look at the keyword density actually-... uh, make sure that, uh, we are able to drive traffic for, from people who are searching for all those keywords. They come to the website and the pro- the website is designed to get the customer into the product quickly without talking to anybody in sales. So, the pricing is open, uh, and the products are built to be intuitive, do it yourself kind of products. So you don't have to hire a- an SI like Accenture or TCS to come and implement it. So, uh, the online buyer who's coming in feels like, "Hey, I'm trying to do this, and I, it feels simple enough, easy enough, I can do it on my own." And the pricing is here, you can put your credit card on file. There's no, uh, back and forth contract negotiation, no redlining of contracts, uh, no non-disclosure agreements. Uh, so it's, it's all, "Okay, I like it. It's $29 a month or $19 a month for three, uh, seats. I'll just put my credit card and, and buy

5. 13:08 – 18:41

   Importance of SEO & Keyword Targeting

   1. GMGirish Mathrubootham13:08

      and go."

   2. HSHarry Stebbings13:08

      When you review that strategy and where we are today, do you think that keyword approach, that SEO focus, that keyword targeting, that approach would work today in the plethora of PLG mass that we have today?

   3. GMGirish Mathrubootham13:23

      It, it still plays its part, right? So, so, uh, I, I'll also tell you some of the, uh, uh, areas of research where we're working on, uh, like search engine optimization, now we have generative engine optimization, right? Like, if, if a lot of, uh, people are going to go to ChatGPT and ask about, "Hey, uh, which software should I use?" How do we make sure that the AI models are trained to tell customers that Freshworks is a great product? So, so, uh, w- we, we... That is where the future is going if, if, uh, Google, uh... Uh, people are not going to Google for search, but they're going to ChatGPT, so, so we need to do that.

   4. HSHarry Stebbings13:56

      Are you seeing people shift in terms of referral mechanisms from Google?

   5. GMGirish Mathrubootham13:59

      I've started doing that. A lot of employees have started doing that. I, I'm sure you have probably started doing that. Are you going to ChatGPT more often now? Uh...

   6. HSHarry Stebbings14:06

      Yeah.

   7. GMGirish Mathrubootham14:06

      So, so... And, and then if, if that is true, uh, it's going to be a matter of time before... See, when we have questions, we want answers. So we have moved from a world of search for keywords and get a bunch of links to, "Hey, I have a question. Uh, give me the answer," right? So, I think that is a very fascinating world.

   8. HSHarry Stebbings14:25

      I totally agree. Um, there's a couple of things I just have to unpack before we move on to enterprise and SMB. You mentioned the low pricing being really easy for them to sign up and just low friction. You know, Marc Andreessen said, "If I could have a billboard, I would have on it, 'Raise prices.'" What are your biggest lessons on pricing from the very successful low pricing you have, and how do you reflect on them?

   9. GMGirish Mathrubootham14:49

      See, I think, uh, at, at the end of the day, it matters to, uh... It's... Pricing is all about who are you selling to, what do they care about, and, and, um, what is your entry wedge into the market, right? So if I have something that can solve a great problem for a large enterprise and, and I can increase my prices and charge whatever I want, uh, then that could be the strategy that Marc Andreessen is saying, right? Like, uh... But if, if I am the 601st helpdesk... Like, when we started Freshdesk, there were 600 helpdesks already in the market. Uh, there is a website called helpdesks.com, uh, where you can go and filter and search what kind of, uh, helpdesk you want. So for us, we wanted to win by superior execution with this... Uh, a better design, better UI, and, and a great price, and, and then build our brand and then raise prices. Of course, today we have customers who pay us, um, uh, millions, uh, like a couple of million dollars a year. Also, uh, many customers who pay us over a million dollars a year. Uh, but we also have customers who start off paying, uh, say, uh, uh, $29, uh, a month. So-

   10. HSHarry Stebbings15:54

       Is this not a product marketing nightmare, Girish, in the way that you have, you know, 500 people who all serve the same customer base or, you know, similar product suites. Like, how do you think about the product marketing challenge of differentiation in such a crowded field?

   11. GMGirish Mathrubootham16:09

       So, I think, uh, one of the tools that we have used, uh, in, in product marketing... That's a great question, by the way. Uh, so a lot of times in the early years, right? Uh, when you are getting traffic to come to your website, you're not really controlling who's coming in. It could be a 5% company, or it could be, uh, a team member from a 5000% company who's trying to come and buy something. So we... As early as 2013, we closed enterprise customers like Burger King, DHL, uh, Sony Pictures, 3M, uh, um, uh, Schneider Electric, Pearson. So all these, uh, like teams of users from these companies came online, looked at the product, it solved for their use case. Of course, it was not an enterprise-wide deal, but it was for one team within a larger enterprise. Uh, like if you remember, there was a company that Tesla bought, uh, uh, an- another Elon Musk company called SolarCity. So we entered SolarCity, I think, with a 25 seat deal. And, and, uh, two years later, uh, when we hired our first, uh, uh, president of sales in the US, he went and spoke to SolarCity. We found out that 13 different teams were using it, more than 1,000 licenses. They were almost paying us a million dollars a year, but, uh, but under 13 different invoices. So the CFO was not even, uh, uh, looking at us in the top 10, uh, vendors back then. And so, so we were flying under the radar because all these teams were, uh, using the product, right? So I think today, if you look at many, many successful PLG companies, whether it's, uh, uh, Atlassian, or Slack, or, uh, Zoom, or, uh, uh, HubSpot, you can see the power of, uh, uh, PLG, right? So, uh, uh, larger companies who are burnt by enterprise systems, uh, who have spent millions of dollars, who have actually, uh, wasted two years of implementation time, and finally they've not realized the value of the money that they've spent, they actually like to get something that is working now that they can, uh, start getting value of. And that is why we win. And, and from a product management standpoint, to your question, packaging is an answer which... Or a tool we use to kind of segregate the, uh, SMB players with, with, uh, a limited, uh, feature set. Uh, and, and we put all the enterprise features, uh, like sandbox, audit logs, and all the other stuff into an enterprise plan so that, uh, larger companies can actually migrate towards that.So we remove- we have to remove the complexity. That's in- in short. Uh, you have to keep the experience, uh, consumer-like, uh, so but all the advanced features need to move away and, and surface simply the right time.

6. 18:41 – 20:38

   Transitioning From SMB to Enterprise

   1. HSHarry Stebbings18:42

      So I have so many companies that we're invested in now who say, "Hey, we're an SMB and we want to scale to enterprise." And I say, "No, no, no." Like SMB market is so much bigger than you think and building an enterprise business is so much different. It's a different business. Do you agree with that perspective?

   2. GMGirish Mathrubootham19:01

      It is hard. See, if it was easy everybody would have done it, right? See, today Freshworks has over 67,000 customers and more than 2,000, uh, plus customers actually pay us over $50,000, uh, a year. So we have a long tail of SMB customers, uh, uh, like 87- I think 87% of our revenue comes from customers who pay us over $5,000 a year. And- and so we have that long tail and we have a few big whales.

   3. HSHarry Stebbings19:28

      Why do you have 13% then beneath? I always think, like, often your smallest customers will be your most difficult. They'll be the ones who complain the most on social, who just aren't champions. Cut the bottom and you don't need them.

   4. GMGirish Mathrubootham19:42

      We are always looking for optimal ways to find, uh, uh, customers who ha- are higher value customers, but it is the nature of the game, like when- when you are dealing with search globally, you will attract all kinds of customers, right? So we have our sales processes to... and- and our marketing fine-tuning to kind of take us towards the right customers, but also we are- you have to remember that Freshworks is a multi-product company and, uh, uh, see many of our, um, pretty much all of our $5,000 customers probably started off paying us $100 or $50 or whatever. And- and even some of our $50,000 plus com- customers are actually SMB customers who have adopted three, four products from us. So, so this strategy of, uh, really keeping the long tail open and- and, uh, uh, feeding it in and then letting customers grow and use multiple products and- and give us more value has worked well

7. 20:38 – 25:31

   Lessons on Second Product Expansion

   1. GMGirish Mathrubootham20:38

      for us.

   2. HSHarry Stebbings20:38

      What are your biggest lessons on when to do a second product? You have a product suite today, you mentioned there are people using multiple. What are big lessons on when to expand to a second product?

   3. GMGirish Mathrubootham20:48

      So you have to do it when your first product is actually doing well. So what we have done at Freshworks always is when you have one product that's like, uh, uh, the wheels are spinning fast, money is coming in and- and, uh, so while you're continuing that, always f- uh, see, I always say that my job as product manager, I have to worry about the revenue that's going to come in 26 and 27. My sales VP or my president can worry about the, uh, uh, revenue that's going to come this quarter or next quarter, right? Uh, so product person has to worry two, three years down the line and do the work now because when you do the work now, you will probably launch it next year and then it will start to build slowly and then, uh, for you to get momentum it'll take two, three years.

   4. HSHarry Stebbings21:28

      I love that differentiation between the sales and the product manager in terms of the timelines associated with the revenues. Honestly, Girish, when I listen to you, everything seems like it kind of just worked, and I know that startups are never like that. And so when we look at the movement from SMB to enterprise, the pricing structure, the- the global from day one, where did it go wrong? (laughs) What broke and what are some lessons from that?

   5. GMGirish Mathrubootham21:52

      So first of all, I'll tell you, uh, clarify that when we moved from SMB, uh, meaning not moved, when we layered on, uh, a second go-to-market motion, we were focused on mid-market, not necessarily enterprise, right? So- so mid-market we define as 500 employees to 5,000 employees because we found that, hey, that segment of the TAM is huge and they are probably not big enough to have budgets in the millions of dollars for the enterprise systems and their needs are similar and, uh, so, uh, the sweet spot for us could be in the 500 to 5,000 employees. So that's when we overlaid, uh, the- the second go-to-market motion of now what we call as a twin-engine model. Uh, I think, um, one of the life lessons that I've had is you have to learn with the consequence- you- you have to learn to live with the consequences of additions, right? I will tell you the- the number one challenge for Freshworks is, or for any company for that matter, is balancing this, uh, two go-to-market motions, right? The needs are different, the friction, as you rightly said, product management channel, product management becomes hard, but we are also enjoying the fruits of that decision. We are a multi-product company that is working in multiple segments, so our revenue is coming from, like we, our second product recently crossed $300 million in ARR, so now we have two, uh, uh, product lines north of 300 million in ARR. So when- when we are enjoying the fruits of that and- and the second product fresh service is squarely winning in mid-market, it's the most affordable alternative and the best alternative service now in the market today, and we are winning enterprise customers, uh, every day, every quarter and- and so when you are enjoying the fruits of that, we should learn to live with the, uh, uh, challenges and frustrations that come with that.

   6. HSHarry Stebbings23:35

      And what are the challenges and frustrations? I just want to dig in on those because I think that's where learnings come from.

   7. GMGirish Mathrubootham23:40

      There- there are tons in every department. Like we- we already talked about product management, so I will probably, uh... So- so the- the number one difference in product management is... See, in- in, when building for an inbound user you focus on intuitive do-it-yourself product. When you're building for the enterprise customer, they are not going to do it themself. Uh, you- you need an SI partner who will, uh, be trained to use it. So product managers can build stuff that's not very user-friendly, like how, like my challenge internally is how do I drill into my product managers that even if you're building for mid-market enterprise it doesn't hurt to keep that intuitive, uh, uh, user-friendly interface? Like I'll- I'll- I'll just, uh, say that is one of the, uh, stuff in product. Enterprise sales guys always want the highest possible price because they believe they can sell and- and, uh, when I'm inbound, when I'm selling to inbound users, the sticker shock will drive away website visitors, so I need to make sure that the pricing is affordable and open. Uh, enterprise sales guys will want to say...... contact sales. They don't want to publish the pricing on the website. So, how do you balance this? So d- now we make a philosophy that our pricing will be open. Uh, it'll be on the website. So, uh, uh, tha- that's the company, uh, policy, right? And the other important challenge would be hiring. When you're hiring leaders, like, it's incredibly hard to hire leaders who understand both the nuances, the nuances of both these businesses. So, if I hire enterprise sales or marketing folks who do not get the inbound side of business, uh, then that part of the business could start suffering. If I hire inbound folks who don't understand the enterprise business, then, uh, uh, that could also... We have made our share of, uh, uh, uh, uh, gone through our share of challenges in terms of getting the right people who are experts on one thing, but how do you build a complementary team where every, uh, function gets its deserved leadership?

8. 25:31 – 30:18

   Hiring Challenges & Lessons

   1. GMGirish Mathrubootham25:31

   2. HSHarry Stebbings25:31

      You can see my hand. I'm building... I'm doing notes (laughs) as, as I listen to you talk. Um, what are the biggest hiring mistakes you made there? I think hiring is one of the hardest challenges of business building. What are some lessons that you know now that you wish you could tell yourself?

   3. GMGirish Mathrubootham25:44

      So, I think my biggest, uh, mistakes have been there. So, one, uh, I'll, I'll give you three or four, right? Number one, I did not do ref, uh, uh, ref checks on candidates who actually came through, like, investor referrals.

   4. HSHarry Stebbings25:57

      Mm-hmm.

   5. GMGirish Mathrubootham25:58

      Uh, so costly mistake. I should have talked to people who reported into those leaders and got a style of their, uh, management style. Uh, I actually, on a couple of occasions, have gotten carried away by their resume. Like, hey, they work for a great company, uh, went to a great college, uh, they should be incredibly smart, and so obviously they'll be a fit here. Um, no, boom, didn't work out, cultural misfits. Uh, my management style, uh, I'm usually very hands-off in terms of when I hire a new leader, I look at all the best candidates, and then we hire the best possible candidate. Then I step out of the way and let them play their game. Also, a lot of us in India, like, we have not been there, done that. So, when you hire experienced talent, we assume that, okay, we are going to learn from this candidate so we let them play, right? But what happens is, one of the most important lessons I learned which every CEO should do, is while you can be hands-off, the initial period of letting the leader transition and settle in, you have to be closely involved in all the big decisions. You have to be watchful of how they're treating their people. So you have to be in... So, my- one of my OKRs now or, or my, uh, uh, performance objectives is, um, when I hire a new management team member, getting them to success is actually, uh, my OKRs.

   6. HSHarry Stebbings27:12

      What are the biggest lessons in what it takes for them to be successful in that period? Okay, you need to be on top of them more and you can't just leave them, but what does that actually break down into? As granular and specific as possible, I'm really interested.

   7. GMGirish Mathrubootham27:23

      I'll give you a couple of stories there. One, I think, uh, one of my friends, uh, Chander, who is the CMO of Coupa, uh, wrote a, a LinkedIn post recently, which is very relevant here. He said, uh, "When, when you're changing jobs, philosophies are portable, uh, playbooks are not." So, so basically, you can bring your philosophies and values, uh, but you cannot take, bring your playbook and, and, uh, use it as a template to run in the new company, right? And the way I used to tell it, one of my first meetings with every new leader that I hire, this is an original, uh, uh, uh, management, uh, uh, lesson from me. I said, "I always ask, uh, the leader," like, you, you need to learn to ask, 'Which cow? Which ditch?'" Heh, so... And, and I'll explain. So, there is an ancient Indian, uh, fable which says, hey, in a village, uh, when a cow falls into a ditch, you first need to take the cow out of the ditch, and then you fill the ditch with sand, and then you go and educate the villagers on how to prevent cows from falling into ditches. And the sequence in which you do these things is important, right? And, and that is the original story. And my adaptation of that is, as a new leader, when you come with all your experience in a fast-growing startup, you have to understand that there are already hundreds of cows that have fallen into ditches. So, if you want to be successful at Freshworks, you have to ask the question, "Which cow? Which ditch?" Which means, where can you help? What are the top two or three most important priorities or problems that you can help solve? Go and help those cows from the ditches, and then we will listen to you give us a lecture on how, uh, how to prevent cows from falling into ditches.

   8. HSHarry Stebbings29:07

      What was the biggest cow in the ditch, to follow your analogy, that you didn't identify for a while? There was nothing that was a surprise that, like, lingered and then it was like, "Oh, gosh, we actually haven't allocated nearly enough to enterprise or to the US sales team"?

   9. GMGirish Mathrubootham29:23

      2015, uh, we were really, really, uh, growing fast and, uh, we were hiring a lot of sales folks and, uh, the, the sales wheel was spinning faster than the engineering wheel. We didn't hire enough engineers and, uh, like, we, we added, like, thousand customers or something like that, and, uh, feature requests were coming, flying in and, uh, our engineering team was actually involved in a Ruby on Rails upgrade, so we couldn't even ship enough and, uh, so I realized that, okay, how do you balance hiring, um, across the org? And, and so we did not have a process to do headcount planning in advance, uh, looking at, okay, where are the revenue numbers going to be next year and how much... Uh, like, now we have a, a full-blown headcount planning process, but, but that was a, a, a big mistake that I did, uh, where I, I s- didn't hire, uh, product developers

9. 30:18 – 33:04

   Balancing Product Suite

   1. GMGirish Mathrubootham30:18

      enough.

   2. HSHarry Stebbings30:19

      How do you think about the balance on the product suite? I was really interested but I didn't want to interrupt your flow when you were talking about the different products. When you ha- you know, you said your second product now crosses 300 million in ARR. You have a resource allocation question as the leader which is, "I can put more money into growth, plow this forward, or I can do a third product and a fourth product." How do you balance between investing more in that killer product second that works versus expanding further with net new products?

   3. GMGirish Mathrubootham30:47

      In the early years, the first decade as a VC-funded company, uh... See, one of the things...You, you have to understand in that inbound model, uh, the secret sauce for Freshworks was the business model disruption, of being able to profitably serve the long tail of the global SMB from Chennai. When I wasn't able to articulate it, uh, as well in 2012, uh, in, I- as early as 2012 when Freshdesk, the first product had not even hit a million dollars, I was already working on the second product called Freshmarketer. I, I had booked 40 domains starting with Fresh, uh, in, in 2010 and 2011. So I, I, my dream was to build a multi-product company and use that inbound, uh, PLG motion across so many products. And you also have to understand that when we took our first round of VC money and then we spoke to some of our investors, so they actually, uh, gave me advice, which is good advice at that time, 2012. "Girish, your first product is not even a million dollars in revenue. If you build a second product now, you'll be confusing the market. Uh, people will think you're pivoting from customer service to marketing and, and if you're going to raise your next round of VC funding, that investor will be confused on why, uh, you're doing this." So I actually killed the Freshmarketer product that we built in 2012 because it was good advice. Uh, but then I actually convinced our board to let me build Freshservice, which is today the $300 million product because Freshservice, in a, in a sense, was helpdesk for employees. Freshdesk was helpdesk for customers. So, and, and there was a company that Microsoft a- acquired called ParaSure which had done something like that. You had ParaSure for IT and ParaSure for CS, customer service. So, so in that sense, we are taking something that is already working, the ticketing knowledge-based self-service model, and what is working well for external customer service, we were trying to do the same thing for internal employee service. And I am an ITIL service manager, uh, professional myself, so I know how to build the product. So I convinced our board to let me build the second product within that narrative of being a helpdesk for employees, and that product hit 1.5 million the first year and 6.5 million in the second year. And the board understood the power of the model, and, uh, then my, uh, uh, early VC investor, Sheikha from Accel said, "Girish, what are all the products

10. 33:04 – 35:07

    Product Not Working

    1. GMGirish Mathrubootham33:04

       that you can build?"

    2. HSHarry Stebbings33:04

       Have you ever had a product not work?

    3. GMGirish Mathrubootham33:07

       Uh, two examples I can give you. One is a product called FreshConnect. Uh, so where ... This was the early days of Slack, uh, when we saw Slack, uh, uh, really growing, uh, rapidly. So I could see that enterprise collaboration was actually gaining momentum, and this was even before Microsoft Teams had launched. So theory in my mind was, if I look at how our customers or our employees were using Slack, so they would get a customer service ticket and then they would go on Slack and ask somebody for help, and then that person will say, "Okay, send me the link to the ticket." And then they'd copy-paste the ticket link and then, uh, the person would go there, they need to have a login, and then they would read the customer context and then they'd come back on Slack and offer help. I'm just using customer service as one example. Same thing in sales, same thing in HR. So we found that, okay, that Slack is actually winning because enterprise software is broken in collaboration. So what we wanted to do was bring context and collaboration together. Like, uh, while you are, uh, working on a customer service issue, how can you collaborate on that ticket then and there? Like how you do in Word doc, right? Google Doc. So, but what had happened by the time ... We were l- late. Like we took more than two years to launch, and by that time both Slack and Teams have actually started winning so many users. When we took it to our customers, uh, the, the CIOs actually told us, "Girish, we are already dealing with Slack and Teams. We have to standardize on one. Please don't give us a third." So, so I think we were late and we lost, uh, that game. But-

    4. HSHarry Stebbings34:40

       Do you know right away when a product isn't working or do you think it takes time to know?

    5. GMGirish Mathrubootham34:45

       I think, uh, you, you will know. It, it ... At the end of the day, customer adoption will tell you pretty quickly, um, whether it's working or not, right? So, and, and we knew that. So what we did was we conceded, uh, collaboration. So today, our same FreshConnect code that we built is integrating with Slack and Teams. So we conceded, uh, um, collaboration to Teams and Slack.

11. 35:07 – 35:54

    Leadership Style

    1. GMGirish Mathrubootham35:07

    2. HSHarry Stebbings35:07

       Can I ask you, when you think about your leadership now, we've spoken about so many different aspects, from the pricing, from the geo expansion, uh, to the building and hiring teams. How has your leadership style changed, Girish? How have you changed as a leader?

    3. GMGirish Mathrubootham35:21

       One of the things I've always believed in is my job as a leader is to create an environment of performance, hire the right people, and get out of the way. So, so I've always, uh, done that. Like, uh, personally, I'm more like a jack of all trades, right? Like I, I, I don't write code. My style has always been believe in the power of a team, build the right team, hire great people with a learning mindset and with the right passion to excel in whatever they're doing, create an environment of performance, get

12. 35:54 – 37:45

    Creating an Environment of Performance

    1. GMGirish Mathrubootham35:54

       out of the way.

    2. HSHarry Stebbings35:54

       How do you create an environment of performance? It's a tough environment to create.

    3. GMGirish Mathrubootham35:58

       First thing is you find people who are passionate about what they do, right? Like, uh, and, and that starts with our hiring process. I- and the context in India you have to understand is everybody finishes computer science engineering and then figures out what they want to do in life, right? So, so I have, uh, folks working in sales, in pre-sales and marketing who are all computer science engineers, right? So, uh, uh, that, that's a very different context, which means our hiring actually identifies what are they really good at. Because if, if you are truly playing to your passion, you, you don't have to work for a day in your life. Somebody said that, right? So, so work becomes play. So that is core to getting the right people on the job, right? And that's the first thing for environmental performance. Second thing is all about culture. How do you treat people? Uh, like, we build genuine relationships. I don't ... Like our, our manager training program is called Lead By- Lead With Heart. So I've never done...... empty pep talks, sugar-coated feedback. I like, if I am happy with somebody, I'll tell them I'm happy. If I'm unhappy with somebody, I, I, I just do it in private, but I actually tell them what didn't work out. I, I'm still friends with all the people I've fired and let go also, uh, because it is never personal. It's all about having that open conversation, telling people why something is not working, uh, working out, and why we can s- uh, we have to part ways. So, so I think creating that environment of performance means you need to act when you have made bad hires. You need to, uh, like I, I also said in one of our early versions of our culture code that, "Don't be a jerk. Even if you're brilliant, don't be a brilliant jerk," right? Uh, and, and we have seen that, uh, like it's, uh, it's about team winning, not about an individual superstar winning.

13. 37:45 – 38:26

    Challenges in Building & Maintaining Culture

    1. GMGirish Mathrubootham37:45

    2. HSHarry Stebbings37:45

       Has there ever been a moment where it feels like the culture is broken?

    3. GMGirish Mathrubootham37:49

       See, I think, uh, in, in pockets as the company grows larger, specifically around COVID, when, uh, it was incredibly hard to build culture on Zoom, right? So, uh, like I felt that w- we had taken a few steps back, like the next two, three years has been incredibly hard with nobody coming into office, people jumping from Zoom meeting to Zoom meeting. I did not know, I, I still don't know how to build culture when nobody's coming into the office.

    4. HSHarry Stebbings38:16

       Can I ask a bit of a weird one? But in the journey that you have as an entrepreneur, you changed financial profiles as well. Um, I, I always ask this 'cause I think it's such

14. 38:26 – 40:36

    Relationship to Money

    1. HSHarry Stebbings38:26

       an interesting one. How do you reflect on your own relationship to money?

    2. GMGirish Mathrubootham38:29

       So money doesn't really change a person. It only amplifies who you really are. (laughs) So I, I think, I truly believe that, uh, so purpose of money is to serve society. So beyond a certain need, uh, like I have no interest to kind of keep accumulating more. And, uh, so I, I believe, uh, that it's, it's more about giving and giving back. So for me to truly succeed in life, you need to unleash your purpose. And, uh, what I spoke about on that day was how, as FreshWorks, we have been, like i- we have this incredible opportunity to make an impact on so many lives, uh, lives of our employees who have been with us for so many years. Uh, like now when they share their stories of them buying a home with cash or being able to spend for their, uh, um, siblings', uh, weddings and things like that. Or, uh, we have a software academy where we, uh, take, uh, students who can't afford college, teach them, uh, software skills, and then place them in companies. FC Madras is an example where we are helping young sports people build into athletes.

    3. HSHarry Stebbings39:36

       I did just want to ask, when you were talking about young people and purpose, Girish, what do you advise the thousands of young people today who don't know what their purpose is?

    4. GMGirish Mathrubootham39:46

       See, I think, uh, this is where, uh, the Maslow's need hierarchy has to play in. Uh, it is quite common for young folks to not worry about things like purpose because... And, and I'm sure all of us are familiar with the Maslow's need hierarchy, right? First comes the, the, the physiological needs, then the safety needs, then the so- uh, social needs and esteem needs. I think people have to go through the journey and, and when you don't have enough for yourself, you're not going to be able to think about purpose. But I think it's okay. Like when, when I reflect back on my younger days, I did not actually, uh, have a lot of purpose. It was more about, "Hey, I need to first make money. I need to provide for my family. I need to do all these things." And then once you, uh, it, it dawns on you, like once you become successful, once you make, uh, some money and then you realize, "Okay, what do you want to do?" I think it's, there is time. It's okay.

15. 40:36 – 42:27

    Indian Tech Ecosystem

    1. GMGirish Mathrubootham40:36

    2. HSHarry Stebbings40:36

       I do have to ask, uh, it seems like something is... India and Europe are often characterized in the same way, which is every generation we say, "Ah, now's the time for European tech," or, "Now's the time for Indian tech." And we're still kind of waiting. There's amazing companies like FreshWorks or Spotify in Europe, or, but there's not that many. Why is now different or is now not different, Girish?

    3. GMGirish Mathrubootham41:04

       This is the time. I, I would now say now is the time for Indian tech product companies, and this is going to be the decade of India as a product nation. I will tell you, uh, what I am seeing, we are living, the, the reason why I even started a fund called Together Fund, and, uh, we, I'm a f- uh, co-founder of an organization called SaaS Bhoomi. We just had our annual event, uh, uh, I think two weeks ago, uh, in Chennai. In 2016, when we first came together as a bunch of founders, there was a grand total of 40 companies, SaaS companies building global products in India, right? So we, we all met. We, we didn't find any eco- ecosystem, so we decided to create an ecosystem. And, uh, last year, uh, there were over 3,500 companies, uh, in India and, uh, 1,000 people, uh, 1,000 founders attended, uh, SaaS Bhoomi. This year, there are over, I think 6,000 companies, uh, uh, startups, uh, in SaaS and AI in India. 1,600 of those founders were attending our event. And, uh, so we are just seeing this tsunami of startups happening. And I will also tell you, in the last two weeks alone, uh, at our fund, uh, Together Fund, we have received 150 applications from startups in two weeks. So, so we are going through this... We have never seen this kind of deal flow before. So, (clears throat) so this is really, really happening.

16. 42:27 – 49:08

    Liquidity Markets in India

    1. GMGirish Mathrubootham42:27

    2. HSHarry Stebbings42:27

       The other challenge that people put to the ecosystem, and they put it to Europe too, is the lack of liquidity markets.

    3. GMGirish Mathrubootham42:33

       That's changing now. That was the, that's the old perception. So when you look at what has happened in the recent years, the Flip- Walmart acquisition of Flipkart showed that a very large M&A can happen in India. The FreshWorks IPO on NASDAQ showed that, hey, you can take an Indian startup and actually list in the US. Uh, the local listings are actually even more attractive when you look at Zomato and, and Paytm and, uh, uh, some, so many other, uh, (clears throat) startups actually listing in India. So, and, and there have also been PE exits, like PE-backed exits. So all different...... kinds of, uh, liquidity has actually been demonstrated now. And, and yes, that was the complaint against India that, Hey, there is no liquidity, but it is starting to change.

    4. HSHarry Stebbings43:15

       What's the biggest misconception about the Indian tech ecosystem? What do you hear that you're like, "Oh, for fuck's sake, I wish that would change."

    5. GMGirish Mathrubootham43:24

       (laughs) I will speak specifically from, uh, SaaS. Uh, (clears throat) people always think that, uh, like, like we started the conversation, people think that we will build for India first and then, uh, go global. Uh, as opposed to many of the Indian SaaS product companies are actually starting global on day one. And, and that I have found many times when I'm talking to LPs and investors, they, they don't get it because a US company will sell in US, an Australian company will sell in Australia first and then branch out. So they're all coming with that, uh, preconceived notion, uh, where we had to educate them saying, "Hey, these are global product companies that are getting customers internationally from day one. And, and there is a playbook for that."

    6. HSHarry Stebbings44:05

       Totally agree with you there is a playbook for that. I do have to ask, in terms of those incredible companies that and founders that are building in these markets, you then choose to be an investor as well. We see the Together Fund logo behind you. Um, talk to me about that decision, Girish, 'cause you could just be an angel investor. Why, like, institutionalize it with a fund? And in your decision-making framework, why did you decide that was the right decision?

    7. GMGirish Mathrubootham44:30

       I was angel investing before starting the fund. I've made around 60 or 70 startup investments. But most of my investments are small, like, uh, uh, $25,000 is could be the average, uh, check size, right? So when we created SaaS Bhoomi, uh, we started opening up our playbooks and, uh, uh, sharing this with startups because the dream was about India as a product nation, right? See, when you look at it from outside, it'll look like, hey, Girish is doing Freshworks, he's doing, uh, SaaS Bhoomi, he's doing Together Fund, and also he's doing FC Madras. Why are you doing all these different things, right? Like, uh, in my mind, it's, uh, a unified connecting theme. Like, how can I be a catalyst in creating world champions from India or world beaters from India? And, and for the first three, it is India is a product nation. So when we, uh, did all the work in SaaS Bhoomi, we still realized that our startups had to go for funding from traditional investors. While they are very savvy financial investors, there was very little operational expertise that any investor in India actually, uh, bought, uh, brought to the startups, which means you could end up with a good investor or a bad investor sometimes looking at Excel sheets and not really understanding how to help the startup. So, and this is why when, when Manav and I, both of us co-founders at SaaS Bhoomi talked about this, he proposed this idea, at that time, there was not a single VC fund who was focused on B2B global SaaS products from India. Today everybody wants to invest there, right? But when we started the fund, even today we are the only operator-led fund in India and, uh, we are the only fund that's focused on SaaS and AI investments only. And, and generally all the VC funds were sector agnostic, like they would invest in consumer internet, they would invest in marketplaces, they would invest in FinTech, they would invest in SaaS, invest in AI.

    8. HSHarry Stebbings46:18

       Yeah.

    9. GMGirish Mathrubootham46:18

       And, like, uh, they are good investors. Like we believe that we can build an operator network and truly help these startups really scale and that's how we can, uh, be a catalyst in that journey of creating the next, uh, few global product companies from India.

    10. HSHarry Stebbings46:34

        Is it harder than you thought? I find a lot of operators who move to venture are like, "God, it's more hard work than I thought it would be." Is it different to what you thought it would be?

    11. GMGirish Mathrubootham46:42

        See, I think it is hard work, but I will say I, I am tired, not stressed because it's like playing a game. Like I, see, I'm always anyway play, uh, working with startups. Even when I made say, like 60 to 70 startup investments, I, I have spent time with startups. So, I enjoy doing that. I learn a lot interacting with these younger founders. So in terms of time, everybody has only 24 hours a day and I get my time to play tennis and, and do the other stuff that I like which is watching movies and so everything else is work so, uh, it just keeps going.

    12. HSHarry Stebbings47:14

        What's the most non-obvious thing you look for in the founders you back? So for example, for me, I look for early, early signs of exceptionalism in something. It could be an exceptional footballer when they were nine. It could be they made money selling cookies when they were eight and made five- $5,000, whatever it is. What's non-obvious but a big tick for you?

    13. GMGirish Mathrubootham47:37

        See, I, I look at three or four things. I don't know if it's non-obvious or obvious. First thing is what gives them the right to win in that market. Like do they have, uh, like... because sometimes I meet founders who say, "Hey, I evaluated 160 ideas and I picked this one, uh, based on these 70 parameters that I, uh, looked at." Super smart founders, but I, I don't get excited by those founders. So for me, you have to have spent a lot of time in the problem domain to be able to solve that problem. So, so what gives you the right to win in that market? That's number one. Number two, uh, craftsmanship. Like every- everything that they do, uh, whether it's a deck that they send or a product mark that they have, like can I see them to be world class? Because you cannot win, uh, in, in a global market without being, uh, a truly world-class product. And then their ability to hire a great team. While this may seem obvious, many times you see people hiring just younger folks fresh out of college that they, they don't have the ability to sell their vision when they don't have anything, right? But building a product is not about UI. Building a company is all about people, right? So, so, uh, only the great founders who go the distance are the ones who are able to build a great team. And, and I think that's... In my opinion, that's the most important part of the challenge. If you hire a great team, the work will get done, right? So, um, like but if you have great ideas but you don't have a, a great team then no matter what-

17. 49:08 – 50:55

    Biggest Investing Mistake

    1. GMGirish Mathrubootham49:08

    2. HSHarry Stebbings49:08

       Final one, what's the biggest investing mistake you've made? I've made many.

    3. GMGirish Mathrubootham49:12

       (laughs) Yeah, I've also made many.I think, uh, uh-

    4. HSHarry Stebbings49:16

       (laughs)

    5. GMGirish Mathrubootham49:16

       See, when I was angel investing, I, I'm a very optimistic person, right? And, and I love founders, and, uh, so it's hard to say no. So, uh, a lot of times I have given them checks just to help them, uh, even when I'm not 100% convinced that the idea would work. So, and, and, like, and, and then I realized that I'm not really helping them, so this was, uh, then I got my angel investing, uh, bar also to be a little bit higher.

    6. HSHarry Stebbings49:45

       Is that a mistake? That was a deliberate choice to help someone. It's very kind of you. But I don't think that's a mistake.

    7. GMGirish Mathrubootham49:50

       Yeah. I thought you, you asked for investing mistakes.

    8. HSHarry Stebbings49:53

       Yeah. But I don't think that's a mistake. You deliberately-

    9. GMGirish Mathrubootham49:54

       Yeah. No, no, no. They were all investing mistakes because the companies found out I lost money, so-

    10. HSHarry Stebbings49:59

        (laughs)

    11. GMGirish Mathrubootham49:59

        ... I count it as an investing mistake. I don't regret my decision. But, uh, from an investment standpoint, I think I... by the way, my, one of my, one investment returned all my entire angel portfolio, so, and, and I still have seven unicorns there, so.

    12. HSHarry Stebbings50:11

        Wait, wha- which one?

    13. GMGirish Mathrubootham50:12

        ChargeBee.

    14. HSHarry Stebbings50:13

        Which is... ChargeBee?

    15. GMGirish Mathrubootham50:15

        Yeah.

    16. HSHarry Stebbings50:16

        G- wh- what price did you invest at ChargeBee?

    17. GMGirish Mathrubootham50:19

        I think it was 2.4 million, uh, pre-money valuation. A 25K investment turned into a 3.4 million.

    18. HSHarry Stebbings50:26

        Wow, did you sell?

    19. GMGirish Mathrubootham50:28

        Yeah.

    20. HSHarry Stebbings50:29

        Well done, Girish. (laughs) That's fantastic. You can play for FC Madras for two years now with that.

    21. GMGirish Mathrubootham50:35

        (laughs) Yeah.

    22. HSHarry Stebbings50:37

        Uh, dude, I, I love this. Can I ask you a weird one? What's the secret to a happy marriage, Girish?

    23. GMGirish Mathrubootham50:42

        (laughs) So I, I think, uh, e- everybody has to go through that and, uh, be patient and be a good listener. I think that's the, uh, secret.

    24. HSHarry Stebbings50:51

        Your wife is always right as well. That's your final, final edition.

18. 50:55 – 52:51

    Quick-Fire Round

    1. HSHarry Stebbings50:55

       Uh, listen, I want to do a quick fire. So I say a short statement, you give me your immediate thought. Does that sound okay?

    2. GMGirish Mathrubootham51:00

       Okay.

    3. HSHarry Stebbings51:01

       So what have you changed your mind on most in the last 12 months?

    4. GMGirish Mathrubootham51:06

       I always thought poker was gambling. Uh, uh, I think, uh, I'm starting to learn how to play poker, and, uh, uh, I realized that it is a much better strategy game. It's not gambling.

    5. HSHarry Stebbings51:16

       What's your biggest weakness as a leader?

    6. GMGirish Mathrubootham51:19

       My biggest weakness is probably I don't, uh, hold people accountable. I, I like to inspire, I like to tell people what needs to be done, but I expect them to do it. I'm not the kind of person who will, like, hold the whip and, uh, uh, like, ask for status updates and, and make sure everything is tracked. And, and I think, uh, that's not my style.

    7. HSHarry Stebbings51:44

       Tell me, you can have dinner with anyone, dead or alive. Who do you have dinner with?

    8. GMGirish Mathrubootham51:48

       Jeff Bezos.

    9. HSHarry Stebbings51:50

       Why?

    10. GMGirish Mathrubootham51:51

        The vision and the audacity of, uh, how Amazon has grown, uh, and, I mean, from one product to multiple products, uh, starting from literally a garage like how we started. So I think, uh... and, and a company that's product and engineering at its core, not sales or marketing.

    11. HSHarry Stebbings52:13

        What's the biggest mistake you see founders make today?

    12. GMGirish Mathrubootham52:17

        Underestimating the market, fighting with co-founders.

    13. HSHarry Stebbings52:21

        (laughs) The latter is always a challenge, I find. Uh, final one for you. Where's Girish in 10 years? You've got Together Fund, you've got Freshworks, you've got FC Madras. Where... 2034, where's Girish then?

    14. GMGirish Mathrubootham52:35

        Uh, maybe wa- watching India play, uh, in the World Cup.

    15. HSHarry Stebbings52:39

        (laughs) Girish, I, I've loved having you on. I, I had so many good things. Thank you for being so open and for putting up with my questions. This has been a joy to do.

    16. GMGirish Mathrubootham52:49

        No, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Episode duration: 52:51