Jake Paul: Traditional VC is Toast & Attention is More Valuable than Cash

Geoffrey Woo 0:00 It goes back to, like, one of our founding principles, which is attention is more valuable than capital.

Harry Stebbings 0:05 Today we have such a different one for you. Jake Paul, one of the most recognizable people on the planet, is in the studio, baby. He's here with his partner, Geoffrey Woo. What you don't know about Jake, he's probably one of the best investors of the last few years with his fund, the Anti Fund. They back the likes of Ramp, Cognition, Chronosphere, and many others.

Geoffrey Woo 0:24 Can VCs become influencers faster than, like, native influencers like Jake and Logan can become VCs?

Harry Stebbings 0:29 This is a show unlike any that Jake has done before, ranging from politics to parenting to the next generation of great investments.

Jake Paul 0:38 You don't want a career politician running a business. The first startup in America was America. It's a fucking business. I take home, like, nearly 100%.

Harry Stebbings 0:48 Well, that's pretty fucking great, isn't it? [laughs]

Jake Paul 0:50 [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 0:50 This was a fascinating discussion revealing a side to Jake that I don't think many people have seen before.

Jake Paul 0:55 YouTube, like, I was done with it. I didn't like it anymore.

Harry Stebbings 0:59 Do you think Trump's doing a good job?

Jake Paul 1:00 Yes, I do. I, I think-

Harry Stebbings 1:03 Ready to go? [upbeat music] Boys, it is so good to have you in the studio. I'm so excited that we got to do this in person,

Harry Stebbings 1:20 so thank you for joining me.

Jake Paul 1:21 100%, man. Thank you for having us.

Harry Stebbings 1:23 Now, I wanna start on the fund. This is a VC show first and foremost. But I actually spoke to John at Wander, who is a portfolio company of yours, and he said that you've actually got to start with just mapping out the Jake Paul business empire ecosystem to fully understand what it's like. Can you just give us, like, an overview and, wh- whoever's best for this, an overview of what the Jake Paul business empire looks like today?

Jake Paul 1:47 Yeah, so it goes, like, anywhere from being a peanut farmer-

Harry Stebbings 1:51 [laughs]

Jake Paul 1:51 ... to, uh, fighting Anthony Joshuas, um, to venture and, you know, working with OpenAI [laughs] and advising them. Um, but yeah, I have, I have a ranch where, like, I literally sell peanuts. But yeah, like, it's, it's, it's, it's entertainment mixed, yeah, obviously with, with, uh, the entrepreneurial vibes, but it's, you know, Better, which is sports gaming. It's W-

Harry Stebbings 2:18 I spoke to the founder beforehand.

Jake Paul 2:19 Okay. Joey?

Harry Stebbings 2:20 Yeah.

Jake Paul 2:20 He's great. He's great.

Harry Stebbings 2:21 Yeah, I spoke to Joey. I think-

Jake Paul 2:22 Wow, you really, you really talked to everyone. [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 2:23 Dude, dude, I did. I was like, "Listen, are you Jo- Jake obviously, um, you know, invests in you guys." He's like, "No, he didn't. He co-founded it with me."

Jake Paul 2:30 Yeah.

Harry Stebbings 2:30 And, and so we had a lovely chat.

Jake Paul 2:32 Yeah.

Harry Stebbings 2:32 Oh, dude, I'm-- I, I do my work.

Jake Paul 2:34 Yeah, you're locked in.

Harry Stebbings 2:35 Yeah.

Jake Paul 2:35 But, yeah.

Geoffrey Woo 2:36 This is why I like the show. I mean, maybe the way, like, 'cause I- it's easier for me to brag about Jake, but I think the highest order bit is that I think Jake represents the next generation of Americans and what they want to be like. And I think we have a unique opportunity to not just be an in-- Jake being an inspirational model, but also be a capital force and an attention force to drive a future and a culture that we wanna see. So I think if you stem from a, just a demographic perspective, right? The number one job that young people wanna have is to be an influencer.

Harry Stebbings 3:06 Yeah.

Geoffrey Woo 3:07 I think one of Jake's personal missions is how to inspire the next generation of young men and-

Harry Stebbings 3:11 Jake, are you proud when you hear

Harry Stebbings 3:13 the number one job aspiration is to be an influencer?

Jake Paul 3:17 Yeah, and so it's funny. I've actually, like... It's been that way since I was, uh, like, 18. They did, like-- Some company did a study when Vine and YouTube was, like, popping, and the-- and I've known that statistic, uh, for the longest time.

Harry Stebbings 3:32 But do you think that's healthy? 'Cause I, I, I don't think you wanted to be an influencer.

Jake Paul 3:37 No, exactly. That-- And that's what I tell people. They're like, "Well, how do I be like you?" I said, "Don't. Like, be yourself." And also, like, are you entertaining? Like, you have to really ask yourself that question. And, like, can you actually do this, and are you smart? Are you creative? Do you have the work ethic? You know, like, you know how much work you just put in just for this one podcast.

Harry Stebbings 3:57 Yeah.

Jake Paul 3:57 And people don't really, like, see the behind-the-scenes, um, things that go into these videos. And, uh, it's become second nature to me, and I have a team and all that stuff, but it's still, like, a full-time grind.

Harry Stebbings 4:09 What do people not see work-wise that you wish they saw most?

Jake Paul 4:15 I don't care for them to see, [laughs] but, um, they don't see the-- there's, like, so much genius in every point one second of content that I make. Like, every little millisecond is calculated and dialed and thought through. I think that stems from being a creator from Vine, where you had 6.9 seconds. People thought it was six, but it's actually 6.9.

Harry Stebbings 4:41 [laughs]

Jake Paul 4:41 Um, and every second had to, and millisecond had to be measured out and calculated and changed and edited around. And so I think that, like, meticulous nature of what I do and create has, you know, obviously helped me since, since the beginning. Um, and constant-- Almost like-- It's almost like politics with my team, where we're, like, arguing about every little second or song of the video or things like that that actually matter.

Harry Stebbings 5:11 Do you lose the art in the science?

Jake Paul 5:15 Um, I don't think so. I think the art, the-- I think the sci- the art happens, like, when we're filming. The science is, like, in post and in the edit. And so, uh, you know, like, it goes back to the question of, like, people wanna be influencers, but, like, are you naturally good at it? And are you naturally, like, able to talk on camera and tell the story? At the end of the day, I'm, like, a

Jake Paul 5:42 storyteller in a sense, and so, um, that's, that's the art. And yeah.

Harry Stebbings 5:47 It's interesting. So are the best founders, and so are the best fundraisers. What makes a great story?

Jake Paul 5:53 Conflict and struggle and, um, loveWould be the top three answers for that. And, and I purposely invoke emotions in people as a entertainer. I want people to feel like fear or joy or hate or something. I don't care what they feel, but I know in certain videos what I'm gonna make them feel. Like, I posted a edit where, like, I acted like I was depressed and, like, d- really, like, couldn't find meaning, meaning in my life, and so, like, t- it went super viral 'cause, like, people were like, "Yo, are you okay?" People were texting me like, "Yo, are you okay? Like, I saw your video." And I'm just like, "No, I'm just, I'm just a entertainer."

Geoffrey Woo 6:39 [laughs]

Jake Paul 6:39 Like, I'm just making people think I'm depressed. Like...

Geoffrey Woo 6:42 And I think the boldness of, of character too, right? Like, I think Jake is very authentic and passionate about what he believes in, so it would, would add that layer, I think.

Harry Stebbings 6:51 Does that ever make your life harder on the institutional side? Is it difficult for you where you have to project confidence to institutions and with respect, Jake is doing content that might seem a bit down or distracted or whatever that might be?

Geoffrey Woo 7:06 Yeah. I, I, I think to me it's, it's, it's clearly polarizing, but it's very obvious, right? It's a double-edged sword, right? Like, Jake has such a big persona and character that, um, one can't just be dismissive on first glance. But I'm okay with that because at end of the day, we're in the money-making business, and our track record makes money. So if it's like, hey, LPs, uh, don't understand the marketing and the attention gathering, it's like, okay, we'll make other pe- we'll make ourselves and other people more money that are a little bit smarter than you guys. So I think the... It, it... So I think it's like you either lean into the brashness or the aggressiveness, or you try to, like, hide it. And I think every great story, every great founder, every great business is like you lean into strength, right? Like, you wanna be the best in the world, and I think we have a chance to be the best in the world on our exact style of investing and company formation.

Harry Stebbings 7:59 Is all publicity good publicity? It's the age-old saying, and I nem- I'm never sure.

Jake Paul 8:05 Yeah. It's a very interesting question. Uh, there is, besides, like [laughs] a couple of things.

Geoffrey Woo 8:11 [laughs]

Jake Paul 8:12 You know, like-

Harry Stebbings 8:13 Don't mention the island.

Jake Paul 8:14 Yeah. No, that's what I was gonna say.

Geoffrey Woo 8:15 [laughs]

Jake Paul 8:15 It's like, yo, like-

Harry Stebbings 8:16 I should actually have like-

Jake Paul 8:17 I was like, "Bri- is Epstein's publicity good?"

Geoffrey Woo 8:19 [laughs]

Jake Paul 8:19 Like, no. [laughs] Like, not all of it's good, no. [laughs] It's a, it's a bad saying. [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 8:24 Do you regret saying that you were uncancelable? That-

Jake Paul 8:27 No. No, not at all.

Harry Stebbings 8:29 You don't?

Jake Paul 8:30 The... No, 'cause I'm not, 'cause I've never done anything that is bad, actually.

Harry Stebbings 8:34 Yeah. It's funny-

Jake Paul 8:35 Like, actually

Harry Stebbings 8:36 ... it's funny that-

Jake Paul 8:37 Actually bad. Like, I've been a dumb, arrogant kid, or I filmed videos or things around fire. Like, okay, cool. If everyone's life was on camera from the time they were 14 years old and let, like, we put a camera on you 24/7 through your college years, like, what were you doing at that frat party?

Harry Stebbings 8:56 [laughs]

Jake Paul 8:57 Like, that's probably much worse than-

Harry Stebbings 8:59 [laughs]

Jake Paul 8:59 ... you know, me lighting a pool on fire in, in Los Angeles. So that's, that's the thing, is I'm uncancelable 'cause, like, no one will ever find or see anything about me that is actually bad. And the... it's all just, like, fake hate.

Harry Stebbings 9:13 We, we were talking about kind of the business empire at the start. If we filter that down into, like, being the best investor you can be, the immediate thought I had was, why does venture make sense? If we can... You know, reports around the latest fight is you make 70 to $100 million, OpenAI says. Why does it make sense to do a $30 million fund?

Jake Paul 9:33 Yeah. I think, um, if, if the 30 mil fund was, like, the end goal, it would be like, no. But, like, we want to run 10, $20 billion at some point, and look up to people like, you know, Josh Kushner at Thrive, who started, um, with, you know, I think it was four-

Geoffrey Woo 9:52 Five mil

Jake Paul 9:53 ... $5 million.

Harry Stebbings 9:54 Wow.

Jake Paul 9:54 And so, um, yeah, you have to start somewhere. And, and the f- you know, obviously made a shit ton of money for the past fights and as my career went, but my first fight against, uh, Deji, uh, a local here, I guess-

Harry Stebbings 10:08 Ah

Jake Paul 10:09 ... um, [laughs] in London, like w- I think we made, like, a million dollars. So, like, you have to start somewhere, uh, to, to be able to make it big.

Harry Stebbings 10:17 When you think about, like, the pillars of venture, like, how it's done, there's finding, there's picking, there's winning, and there's helping. Now, I may be being assumptive here and rude, but I would assume that, say, Jake is the master of winning and helping on distribution,

Harry Stebbings 10:35 and then you are the finder and the picker. Is that correct?

Geoffrey Woo 10:39 I, I, I mean, I think it's really, like, a true partnership of one. So I think in terms of, like... I think Jake has... A- and I think people underestimate Jake's reps and what he sees, right? Like, even just describing, like, the nuances of, like, 6.9 seconds on a product feature, right? In some sense, he was a f- early adopter in all the social platforms as a creator. So I think that same skill set in terms of knowing what is coming around the corner, understanding consumer sentiment, is essentially the same instinct as u- us as VCs being like, "Hey, you know, this guy's a winner," or, "This girl's a winner, and their product and their vision, their roadmap makes a lot of sense." So I think the picking side, I don't think it's... You, we shouldn't underestimate Jake's, like, taste there.

Harry Stebbings 11:24 Yeah.

Geoffrey Woo 11:25 And I would argue that with AI making traditional smart people stuff like coding and financial analysis as just metered intelligence, I would argue that having taste, having, uh, that cultural vibe, and then I think that's, like, one of your, like, big edges as an investor.

Harry Stebbings 11:44 Mm.

Geoffrey Woo 11:44 I think you're just cooler and more with it and vibe with, like, the next generation of founders much better than a boomer VC.

Harry Stebbings 11:50 [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 11:50 Um, and I think you deserve, like, the success on the platform and your, and, and your funds. I think that's the, the challenge or the gauntlet that we're, like, excited to fight with. It's like I just saw that Bill Gurley was tweeting that, um, you know, paid marketing is, like, the worst form of marketing, and I'm just like, hey, Uber. Like, he's m- most well-known for kicking out Travis from Uber.And U- and Uber burnt like tens of billions of dollars on straight-up marketing and just got the profitability. It's showing a quarter of net income po- positive 14, 15 years in. So my sense is that the software and like the classic smart people stuff gets commoditized, and the attention, the taste, the culture side gets more and more important. So I think the world goes into our favor versus away.

Harry Stebbings 12:38 Keith Rabois from Coatla and pre- previously Founders Fund said that it's really important to know what we sell as investors, like what our product is, and I quite like that framing. When you think of the product that you sell founders, do you sell founders distribution, and how do you think about keeping the brand and the profile pure and not being like Better partnership and, uh, Sips Mugs and all the other companies, Oats Overnight, I did my work, uh, that you partner with?

Jake Paul 13:10 Yeah, no, I, I, I think, um, each is, ea- to each their own. And w- it's not, we're not like plugging, saying like, "Yo, we are gonna give you distribution" in companies where we don't think we're gonna do that. Uh, we can provide-

Harry Stebbings 13:24 And so you're super up front, like, "Hey, we're not gonna be distributing you on our platforms, but we'd love to partner with you."

Jake Paul 13:30 Yeah, and I think there's tons of other, you know, things to, to provide, um, just in terms of knowing culture and marketing and, and just information in general, and, "Hey, you should do this. You should link with this person. This would be a good access point." There's, you know, like a religion app that we're investors in. It's like, "Okay, do you want to like m- you know, link with Trump's pastor? Like, I have his phone number." Like things like that.

Harry Stebbings 14:03 That is the most random networking tip I've ever had. [laughs]

Jake Paul 14:04 It is. But it's like, but it's like, it's like-

Harry Stebbings 14:07 Trump's pastor. [laughs]

Jake Paul 14:08 It's like-

Harry Stebbings 14:08 Uh, yeah, sure. Why not? [laughs]

Jake Paul 14:09 It's like, yo, this, we can provide value in, in, in tons of different ways, and I think each company is a different conversation.

Geoffrey Woo 14:16 What do the, quote unquote, "best VCs" even do? A lot of it's those like int- introductions to revenue sources. Like we are a phone call away from literally any executive, any billionaire in the world. It's like w- would you rather have a Jake Paul introduction or some random boomer-suited VC make that intro? The response rate and the integration rate is like super high. We can compete with the guys who've been doing this for 30, 40 years because, one, the founders of those funds have been dead or, or, or, or gone. It's just other guys who got hired into doing this, and I think we have a fresh take on saying, "Hey, let's compete."

Harry Stebbings 14:52 I'd have like a sniper shot late stage strategy if I was you. Like, and what I mean by that is just like have 10 of the best companies that we all agree are late stage and just aggressively go after them. Now I know you're invested in Ramp for one of them. Uh, I think you're in Anduril. But, and I'd just leverage the shit out of the personal brands and put $10, 20, $30 million to work.

Geoffrey Woo 15:14 I think that's actually the correct way to think about it.

Harry Stebbings 15:15 Yeah.

Geoffrey Woo 15:16 I think late stage, I think we have unfair access advantage, and I think our actual, our, our value add is actually very valuable too. Because at that growth stage, you're looking at IPOs.

Harry Stebbings 15:25 Yeah.

Geoffrey Woo 15:26 You're looking at mass media branding. And I think if you, again, look at track record, you can spend millions of dollars on like some marketing VP or some CMO or, or some agency. Literally Jake has driven probably like billions of dollars of enterprise value and impressions and all, like across all his... In, in, in terms of new media. And in some sense, like I see what Mark and Ben are doing with their podcast-

Harry Stebbings 15:52 True

Geoffrey Woo 15:52 ... media company is essentially like... And, and one thought I had was that can VCs become influencers faster than like native influencers like Jake and Logan can become VCs?

Harry Stebbings 16:03 Huh.

Geoffrey Woo 16:04 Right? Like that's kind of like the battle. Like-

Harry Stebbings 16:06 That's a really good-

Geoffrey Woo 16:07 Benchmark acquired Jack Altman's podcast. Um, you know, a16z, great media platform.

Jake Paul 16:13 That's again, like it goes back to like one of our founding

Jake Paul 16:16 principles, which is a- attention is more valuable than capital.

Harry Stebbings 16:20 Okay, so when we think about that, we have early and then we have late stage.

Jake Paul 16:24 Right.

Harry Stebbings 16:24 Great. Got it. And then we have incubations as well, 'cause you do Better as well?

Jake Paul 16:28 Yeah.

Geoffrey Woo 16:29 Yeah.

Harry Stebbings 16:29 Okay, so we wanna start companies as part of it.

Jake Paul 16:32 Yeah. Not, not, not too many. Obviously, like takes a, a ton of work. But, um, incubated, uh, Better and, and W. Um, and then yeah, my brother's working on something now. And, uh, obviously, like he built Prime as well.

Harry Stebbings 16:48 Yeah.

Jake Paul 16:48 So that- that's a part of the strategy coming in with, with ownership. But also, you know, just seeing a gap in the market. With Better, it was all these sports gaming companies paying hundreds and hundreds and billions of dollars in marketing and seeing that their ads were terrible, their app was clunky, it didn't make sense. And I was like, "Yo, I could build a better app and promote it better and have better content," and that's why we created Better. So [laughs] Better, Better, Better. We're like-

Harry Stebbings 17:19 What deal are you not in that you would most like to be in?

Geoffrey Woo 17:22 Pff. Um, a couple that... I, I wanna do m- I think we wanna do a little bit more in Europe. So I think Helsing is cool. I think, uh, with geopolitics, I think there needs to be like a European Neo Prime for defense.

Jake Paul 17:37 I agree.

Geoffrey Woo 17:38 Um, we're chatting with M- Maddy over at Eleven Labs. I think they're doing great stuff.

Jake Paul 17:42 Yeah.

Harry Stebbings 17:42 Maddy's amazing.

Geoffrey Woo 17:43 Yeah. But g- going to your point, um, we should, I, I, I think with the power law of just like the winners are just super big, I think it just makes sense to just try to pick the number ones and maybe the number twos in every single category.

Harry Stebbings 17:57 How much time can you realistically spend on venture?

Jake Paul 18:01 I mean, I spend a lot of time on it. I think, uh, people don't realize like how involved I am, and we're constantly on a day-to-day basis talking, catching up, texting in a constant flow.Weekly calls, et cetera, et cetera. So, um, very, very involved and flying to SF multiple times a year, meeting on the ground floor with people, um, advising the companies that we're a part of, meeting with our, you know, different companies, et cetera. So very passionate about it. And I, and it's because I like it. I would say I s- in, in a, some of the other things that I do, I don't, um, spend as much time, like, in the weeds, but this is, like, something I've always loved since I was 17, 18 years old, and seeing, uh, you know, in SF the Ubers and the Twitters of the world, and Postmates, and getting to see these companies when I was that young, like, made an, an impression on me, and I've always loved it since then.

Harry Stebbings 19:05 One thing I find hard is when we sell brand and we sell media, which is in some ways what we sell as our differentiator, one challenging element is I feel relevance is this constant fight. You constantly are on a treadmill, and you say about your Jack Altman's going to banner. Yeah, and Jack's got a fucking podcast, and so does Sequoia. I mean, every fund has a podcast. And then you have net new people. I sometimes feel like Madonna, and there's fucking Dua Lipa at the party. Okay? [laughs]

Jake Paul 19:33 [laughs] Yeah. No-

Harry Stebbings 19:34 I bet you... But Connie said I look 36. Thanks, Connie.

Jake Paul 19:36 No. [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 19:37 As a proud 28-year-old, I sit here and go, uh, th- that treadmill for relevance is hard. Do you find that treadmill for relevance hard? Do you feel-

Jake Paul 19:46 I don't because I've, like, broken through, like, escape velocity, and just me being me now, like, keeps me there.

Harry Stebbings 19:57 Yeah.

Jake Paul 19:57 And I have a counterpart brother. [chuckles] Like, we're like, uh, the, the testosterone Kardashians, right? So, like, if I'm not doing something in the media, he's literally at the flag football NFL beefing with Tom Brady, the most, like, talked about thing in sports for the whole week, right? So, like, we go back and forth, and we've built this ecosystem, and we're just differentiated and, um, in the right markets in sports, in content, in, you know, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, and we've been at the forefront of it since foundation. So, like, I'm in a different league. But I think for other creators and influencers, it's like a dying market for sure, and it's, it's very hard for people to stay i- in the know.

Harry Stebbings 20:43 We, we are seeing more and more creators, influencers move into investing.

Harry Stebbings 20:48 What would you say to them knowing what you know now?

Jake Paul 20:51 It's a very tough game, and if you, like, actually aren't good at it or know how to do it, then, like, maybe don't just, like, try to do it. 'Cause it's almost second nature to me because I have vision and can see, like, where things are heading. I'm ahead of culture and these things, you know, since I was a kid. And so we can see where things are going, and I think it is an actual talent and, and skill set to be in the right rooms, to know who to talk to, to know where to spend time, um, and know how to get what you want. And so I would say a lot of people, like, can't do that necessarily.

Harry Stebbings 21:28 What do you see now that other people don't see about culture, about taste?

Jake Paul 21:34 That's like asking, like, a [chuckles] um, karate master to, like, show you all of his moves. [chuckles]

Harry Stebbings 21:40 Welcome to the show, Jake. [laughs]

Jake Paul 21:42 Like, I'm not... [laughs] Like, like, uh, very-- It's almost, like, instinctual, um-

Harry Stebbings 21:49 Around the founder or the market?

Jake Paul 21:52 Both, and culture, and, like, content and, um... I don't know. It's like, I think it's just, like, a feeling, right? Like, like, how do I- I don't know. Like, how do I know, like, what video to make, right?

Jake Paul 22:08 Like, it's just, like, s- it's become, it's become second nature. I'll give you an example though.

Harry Stebbings 22:12 What, what's your hit rate on videos?

Jake Paul 22:13 Um, pretty good. Like, I can, I think me and my, like, me and my number one c- content guy, um, before we post a video, we'll predict how many views it's gonna get, and, like, pretty much accurate like 85% of the time.

Harry Stebbings 22:32 Really?

Jake Paul 22:33 Yeah.

Harry Stebbings 22:33 Wow.

Jake Paul 22:33 Within like, like we'll say, like, "This is gonna get 8.5 million," or, "This is gonna get 30. This is one's gonna get 40." Um, so I don't know. It's just like second nature in a sense. An example is boxing and where, where I saw to become the greatest, like, celebrity influencer boxer-

Harry Stebbings 23:00 Mm

Jake Paul 23:00 ... to the point where I n- wanted to become world champion because I knew that boxing was gonna have a, a revival p- in part because of me, and I saw the attention, the, the views, how much people liked it, the drama, and the money that was in it, and I made the point to become the best one in it. And then I excelled out of the group of just being influencer boxer and went into, like, actually, oh, this kid can, like, become world champion because I saw where everything was going, and that it was gonna m- have a revival and be on the forefront of things like Netflix and, um, m- being able to make, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars from it before everyone else. And there was a reason why all the other influencers fell behind.

Harry Stebbings 23:47 I, I, I always get in trouble for saying what's on my mind. Do you ever, do you ever do or say shit and then go, "Oh, shit." Matt Anthony Joshua, he's a big fucking guy. [laughs] Like I, I, I do my pushups.

Jake Paul 23:58 Yeah. [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 23:58 He's a big guy. Uh, when-- Do you ever say things and then you're like, "Oh, dear. Went too far there"?

Jake Paul 24:04 No, I don't think so.

Harry Stebbings 24:06 You don't?

Jake Paul 24:06 Like in public?

Harry Stebbings 24:07 When you stand next to him, you're not actually like, "Oh, fuck. I shouldn't have done this one." [laughs]

Jake Paul 24:11 Oh, no. I think, like-

Harry Stebbings 24:13 You're so cool. He's just like, "Nah, it was fine."

Jake Paul 24:16 No, like even someone literally came up to me this morning in the freaking spa area at the hotel and was like, "Mate, that was amazing. Um,You're s- it was crazy that you did that, but you left with your stock higher. That's what he said. [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 24:32 You left with your stock higher?

Jake Paul 24:34 Yeah. Which is, like, for me, it was a win-win-win across the board fighting him, and I knew that going into it. Um, and, and I knew that I could actually, like, hang in there with him, and the s- the world would be shocked by my heart and skill set. And even if he was to knock me out or knock me down, I would just keep on getting back up.

Harry Stebbings 24:53 Yeah.

Jake Paul 24:54 Um, and so I think the, the fight actually humanized me a bit, and people got to see a different side of me.

Harry Stebbings 25:01 It's funny, Rahul said, "He's really dialed in that it doesn't matter if I win or lose, attention makes me money, boxing business."

Jake Paul 25:08 Yeah.

Harry Stebbings 25:09 You, you stand by that?

Jake Paul 25:10 Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And, and, you know, like, it just... It's all math, right? Like, is it better to... I, I was more nervous to fight Gervonta Davis, um, because if you lose to, like, a tiny person, um, people would be like, "Oh, you suck." So it's actually better to lose to a giant. [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 25:32 When we think about kind of culture, and you mentioned AI there in terms of the tooling, people ascribe that sport is the most exciting asset class because it is, uh, defensible to AI. You're not gonna see robots fighting in the same way that you'd expect to see humans fighting. Do you agree with that in terms of the kind of,

Harry Stebbings 25:49 uh, rising stock price of sport in a world of AI?

Jake Paul 25:52 Yeah. W- we've been on that side of the, the thinking, but I think things are gonna get weird. So, like, I can't say for sure, like, w- I... That, that, that's a open question for me still.

Harry Stebbings 26:04 What do you mean things are gonna get weird?

Jake Paul 26:06 You know, if you... If I can put into, you know, Cognition or, or any of these things and develop my own game that's personally tailored for me with a couple clicks of a button, why would I watch, you know, the NBA when, like, this game I made for myself has all my favorite things in, in it, and friends and storytelling, and I made my own World of Warcraft or Minecraft in a day. It... Will that suck away the entertainment? Or I made my own whole Netflix movie the exact way I wanted it with certain shit in it. Will that personalization take away from other forms of entertainment, which is sport? Like, that's where I mean things might get weird.

Harry Stebbings 26:52 Are you excited for the future?

Jake Paul 26:54 Yeah. [laughs] I mean, like, um-

Geoffrey Woo 26:58 Yeah. No, the answer has to be yes. I think it has to be.

Jake Paul 26:59 Yeah, I love the... I, yeah, like [laughs] I, I don't even-

Harry Stebbings 27:03 I, I, I don't know. In all honesty, I'm quite scared. I'm quite scared because I think the majority of society will become unemployed. Most of actually kind of low-level work I think will be replaced. I think a lot of white-collar work will be replaced. Um, I think we're facing this massive kind of the depressed society of young people looking for meaning. We've got, um, terrible, terrible eating disorders that are worse than ever. I- I'm nervous. And then on top of that, we have world conflict like never before.

Geoffrey Woo 27:29 Yeah.

Jake Paul 27:30 I always said this, like, 100 years ago, you know, when they were m- you know, coming up with the atom bomb and the nuke, and people were like, "Oh, we're so scared. Oh, what's gonna happen?" Uh, there's always, like, fear in the development of, you know, human society and new technologies, and I'm sure people were scared of cars at some point. Like, "What's this gonna mean? It's gonna take my job," or, "I can go get another job." Like, it's... You can either look at it on the positive, but I believe... And obviously it's going faster now and developing faster, but I, I think humans will figure this shit out.

Geoffrey Woo 28:08 Yeah. I was... I, I think that's well said. I, I think you have to look at the optimism and how do you be a beneficiary of this, of this change. So I think we each need to make a decision. Do you accelerate and drive faster into it and have a chance to take the steering wheel, or do you sit back and, like, be scared and crash into the wall? So I think-

Harry Stebbings 28:28 Well, we're in Europe, so we'll, we'll, we'll sit back and be scared.

Jake Paul 28:30 You guys are gonna crash into the wall. [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 28:31 Yeah. We'll sit... [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 28:32 [laughs]

Jake Paul 28:32 You guys are, you guys are... No, I think-

Harry Stebbings 28:33 If that's an option, we'll, we'll take that one.

Jake Paul 28:35 Yeah. Well, you guys, you- [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 28:36 No, I wanna take a harder stance. I feel like y- y- Europe-

Harry Stebbings 28:39 Take a harder stance. Come on

Geoffrey Woo 28:40 ... I feel like Europe is, like, the sick man of, of, of, of the world right now. I feel like Europe could... Has some of the foundational civilizational, like, of Western culture that came out of here, London, Brit- England, right? Um, and it feels that, like, they're not seizing the opportunity to lead, to create the future. So I think humanity is driven by people that seize the opportunity, and I think you can decide, are we going to be passive onlookers of change, or are we gonna be driving that change?

Harry Stebbings 29:10 What opportunity did you not seize that you wish you had seized?

Jake Paul 29:14 Should I have just, like, been in the Valley founding, you know, some company and being, uh, just more involved in, in tech? Uh, but I don't know. I, I don't have, like, any regrets or nothing, anything comes up like that. But I, I do like the Drake line where he's like, uh, "If we hadn't made it here, we would be out in Silicon trying to get our billions on."

Harry Stebbings 29:41 [laughs]

Jake Paul 29:41 And I always relate with that. Like,

Jake Paul 29:43 if I didn't... [laughs] Like, I think it's a good line.

Harry Stebbings 29:45 Does money make you happy?

Jake Paul 29:47 Money buys freedom, and I think freedom makes people happy. Um, but I think there i- the, the famous saying, like, more money, more problems is, like, all, all way too true. Um, so I think it's a double-edged sword, for sure. Um, there's a lot more to manage, a lot more stress, but then there's also a lot more freedom. And if you wanna survive, it's, like, no different than, than food. Like, Mom was a nurse, and, uh, Dad was a roofer. Um, we, we were fine, but, like, wasn't around a- anything, like-

Harry Stebbings 30:26 Where'd you get your animalistic drive from?

Jake Paul 30:29 Yeah. I think, uh, I, I remember a specific moment whereMy parents were getting divorced, and my dad had to pay, like, a lot of alimony and he was crying. It was one of the only times I've ever seen him cry 'cause he had to sell, like, everything he loved to be able to, like, afford living. And I thought to myself, like, I never wanna be this, like, crying father who doesn't, i- isn't able to afford much and telling his kids we have to move to a different house, and selling everything that he l- like, I remember he had to fucking sell his snowboard, like, his little shitty snowboard, just for, like, $150 and stuff like that, and it's like now I'm blessed to be able to s- even just to snowboard. So I think of small things like that, and that, that moment definitely stuck out to me to be like, "Yo, I don't wanna be in that position, so I need to figure out money."

Harry Stebbings 31:26 We, we were chatting before about, I said, you know, I told my girlfriend about having you on the show and I think there's a lot that, uh, the world doesn't know about Jake, but they think they know from the public persona. You obviously work with him on a daily basis. What does the world not

Harry Stebbings 31:40 know that you know from the unique perspective that you have?

Geoffrey Woo 31:43 Yeah. Jake, I think, is, like, a fundamentally a very kind, generous human, so I think a lot of the philanthropy, supporting young up-and-comers, you know, I, I d- you know, anecdotes of, like, you know, friends that are suicidal coming to Jake for help and just Jake spending his time and money to just take care of people, I think is undertold. But maybe that's, like, a, a fine way to, to be about it. I don't think Jake is doing it for PR. I think he just genuinely is, like, a very kind, generous human being, um, which may be, like, alternative to, like, the, you know, I'm a boxer beating and talking shit to Mike Tyson type of a character that he, that he projects.

Harry Stebbings 32:22 Are you ever just sitting there like, "Oh, no, no.

Geoffrey Woo 32:25 [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 32:25 Be nice. D- don't say that to Mike." [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 32:28 No. I, I think... Well, one, I'm f-

Jake Paul 32:30 We're selling fights, dog. [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 32:33 [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 32:33 I'm fucking in it. Uh, yeah. I, I think we're thick as... We're just in it, so, like, I'm just, I'm on the fucking rollercoaster. Um-

Harry Stebbings 32:38 [laughs] Jake's like, "Yeah." [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 32:39 Yeah. No, I do. I'm laughing.

Harry Stebbings 32:40 Fuck you, Mike.

Geoffrey Woo 32:41 Dude, no, no, no, but I think-

Harry Stebbings 32:43 [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 32:43 ... I think part of where we late- I think I have, like, a troll tendency myself. I just, I kinda like seeing kinda the absurdity or the chaos of just, like, seeing funny things happen in the world. I think there's, like, an amusement part of just, like, this is interesting. I get to perceive an interesting experience. I wanna see more interesting stuff, and if Jake is, like, out there making interesting things happen in the world, that's really funny to me, um, on a personal level. And then maybe that's the second point in terms of just, you know, w- w- working closely. Just I'm very impressed with the endurance and the context-switching ability. And maybe I, I think, I think we're, we, we got to spend, like, three hours with the president a couple weeks ago, and I, and I... Maybe not to make the direct comparison, but I was just very impressed with the president just, like, on and, like, context-switching really hard, remembering people's faces, having good conversations, going to a rally, dancing, going on a podcast, doing a TikTok dance, and just, like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Just, like, switching and being in flow constantly. I think that's one thing that I see some parallel. Like, I think Jake's just raw energy output is very, very high, and I can speak to that as being, you know, top of my class at Stanford, graduated computer science honors and distinction, had a perfect SAT score. Like, you know, I, I've seen the caliber of, like, quote, unquote, "smart people" and, like, the endurance and, and energy levels, and I think it's like Jake's endurance and energy is, like, very, very high. And then I think the other part that I think is, like, a interesting nuance is that he can switch from being, like, a celebrity, getting, like, paparazzi when we're out in LA, to, like, talking shit as a professional athlete, and then, but actually having to train, like, twice a day, like, eight hours a day, doing the recovery, then jumping on business calls with literally, like, the most famous CEOs that have been on your show, right? Like, advising them on their marketing strategies.

Harry Stebbings 34:33 Sitting down with Sam. [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 34:35 E- yes. I mean, I, yes. I would say, like, Sam is, uh, yeah. Sam is great. Like, w- we love Sam. But I think that context switching, 'cause I think people just see, like, snapshots of Jake and it's like, okay, you just see, like, the f- full 360. It's, like, man, cool. Like, I'm inspired by the level of context switching and the flow to be able to move with all these different circles.

Harry Stebbings 34:55 Yeah?

Jake Paul 34:56 Yeah. No. Thank you for the nice words. [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 34:58 [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 34:58 [laughs]

Jake Paul 34:59 Um, yeah. The, I think a lot of people don't know shit about me, which is, like, e- even if they watch everything or know, like, you still haven't met me or spent time. I think the, the number one thing that people say to me after, like, meeting for the first time is, "You're a lot different than I expected." [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 35:17 [laughs]

Jake Paul 35:17 I'm like, "Oh, so you thought I was a dickhead and fucking retard? Like, I don't know. My bad, bro."

Harry Stebbings 35:23 [laughs]

Jake Paul 35:23 Like, cool. [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 35:26 Y- you mentioned getting to spend a couple of hours with the president. Um, this was from friends of yours, not from me, so I'm, I'm not stoking any flames here. They are. Um, would you like to run for

Harry Stebbings 35:36 office or be involved in politics a lot more?

Jake Paul 35:39 Um, I wouldn't like to [laughs] but I feel like it, it, it could be needed at some point. I, I've always said, like, it... Jeff was actually the first one that mentioned it, like, six years ago or so. He was like, "You're, you're gonna, like, be the president, and, like, you should run for president." And I was like, [laughs] "Ha ha ha ha." And then it, like, slowly became, um, less of a joke and, like, people actually, other people started saying it to me, and then I get, I just hang out with Trump and, like, the v- I go on stage and do a speech, uh, off of, off the top, and he, the first thing he says to me on stage when I turn around is, "Oh, you're gonna run for office someday." And, like, then I, we go backstage and he's like, "Y- you should be the president." And then he, like, endorses me. But to answer the question, it's like I would only wanna do it if I was, A, the best person for the job, and if, B, there was, like, someone like, uh, Kamala Harris, like, running that, like, could have the potential to, like, ruin the United States and I would have to, like, go and oppose them and-Yeah, save the country, but I don't really wanna sign up for that workload if I don't have to, and if there's someone better to do it. And that's, that's how I feel about it.

Harry Stebbings 36:51 With-- I, I'm in the UK and I'm in London. Uh, do you think Trump's doing a good job? Iran is, is a challenging situation he's got himself into.

Harry Stebbings 37:00 De-globalization is a thing. Do you think he's doing a good job?

Jake Paul 37:04 Yes, I do. I, I think he, um, is arguably one of the best presidents the United States has had in, in this term. There, there's so much propaganda and, and things, but at the end of the day, um, he's, he's doing an incredible job and there's always gonna be criticisms. I mean, that's why, again, like I wouldn't maybe wanna sign up for the job because no matter what you do, people are gonna think they have a better answer. But we're not in the rooms. I believe in him as a person and as a human being. And so I'm not gonna maybe agree with everything he says or does and, you know, like I think he just m- like said, "I'm glad someone died" on the internet. Like, I don't agree with that. But overall, that's my fucking president and I'm gonna back him and support him and say that he's doing a good job a hundred percent.

Geoffrey Woo 37:58 Like to me, I think he's like a very founder president, right? Like I think he's-- he actually makes bold decisions and tries to ch- like mold the future. Where I think a lot of politicians are just very much dictated by the flows of polling. There's a boldness and a leadership quality there that I think in a very globally challenging, interesting time, it's... Like do, do you want your leaders to have boldness to take some risks or do you have someone that's more passive? And I think that's like, uh, something that from a venture side, like you want to back founders and leaders that will be able to take risk, right? Like venture capital is a risk-taking business. Um, and I think there's like a very unique time in history of are we gonna have a multipolar world? Are we gonna have US hegemony continue for another, you know, century? I, I think it's an open question, right? So then it's like which founder, which CEO do you want to be in that seat? And I think you'd-- it's-- you'd likely w- it, again, from a venture capital hat on, you'd want to bet and put your money or your support to the, to a bold, fearless leader.

Jake Paul 39:05 Yeah, and like you don't want a career politician running a business. The, the first startup in America was America [laughs] . Like it was-- it's, it's a fucking business and so you don't want a career politician running things and I think it's a, a very difficult position to be in and I think no matter what you do as president f- any of the terms, any of the US presidents, like there's always gonna be the 50 to 60% of people that are like, "No, they suck. You suck. Da, da. We-- that shouldn't have done that. I have a better solution." Like okay buddy, then go fucking do it. Then become president and fucking fix it. So that's my, that's my thing on it.

Harry Stebbings 39:47 We released a show today with Matt Steckman who's the president and CBO of Anduril, and I asked him, "Do you feel any moral responsibility for how your products are used in conflict zones like Iran?" And he said, "No, we support democratically elected governments only. So they are voted for by the people and what they choose we support because they are democratically elected." Do you agree with that as a stance? And like if you think about Anthropic disagreeing with like Department of War and the Pentagon, do you think that's wrong?

Geoffrey Woo 40:20 I, I mean I think, I think generally I think where does that nexus of decision-making go? Right? It-- like do you want an unelected tech executive making that call or your democratically elected representative making that call? So I think from a fundamental like culture governance perspective, I, I like I wouldn't like to have the ego to be like, "Hey, I'm smarter than the president to make a game time nuclear decision." Like I feel like it's very egocentric to say that, "Hey, I built the tech, I get to make the decision for the rest of the world." If we believe in democracy, which we do, then it's like okay then the democratically elected leader gets that call. To me it's if you wanna talk about taking that like war-making decisions away from our government, o-okay, like we could have some weird techno-fascist thing too. Like, uh, I, I it's a competition of ideas. Maybe like maybe that does happen in other countries and other regimes. Like I think there's like a breed of arrogance around like, "Hey, I think I'm just smarter than everybody else, so I get to make the call." Versus like we're in a society with like a lot of constituents and we vote for someone to make that call.

Jake Paul 41:31 Yes, and I, a-and I think it like the human evolution is inevitable, so like we're going to these systems anyway. So if Anduril wasn't gonna build it, then okay is someone who is evil i-in the wrong hands in another country gonna build it and then we don't have it? So it's needed, but I think also their mission is to make things safer for humans. That's like the autonomous side of it. And so if something needs to be done then, then yeah maybe less people will actually die because of their technology.

Harry Stebbings 42:01 We mentioned Sam, we mentioned OpenAI. They very, um, I don't know how to say it, maybe opportunistically took advantage of it and, uh, swept in and provided a solution. You're the master of content, you're the master of storytelling. He then got heat for it. What would your advice be to him in terms of the messaging, the comms around the heat that he gets for jumping in?

Jake Paul 42:25 Who gives a fuck? [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 42:27 [laughs]

Jake Paul 42:28 Like seriously.

Harry Stebbings 42:30 Seriously.

Jake Paul 42:30 Yeah, who gives a fuck? Someone has to do it and rather to be in the rooms and, and a part of that thing than, than out of it.So I mean, at the end of the day, I, I don't have [laughs] advice for him. Like, he- he's doing what he thinks is best in his decision-making, um, and there's gonna be repercussions. And again, I think we live in a society where no matter, like, what someone does, they're gonna be hated or loved, or hated or loved, or hated or loved. Um, so at the end of the day, you just have to make decisions and, and march on.

Geoffrey Woo 43:10 My sense is that the tech leaders are becoming more and more politicians because they have a bigger, bigger impact on culture, on society. Like Sam is in that position. He has a lot of information. He's tr- trying to make his best decision. My only secondary comment on it would be show the human side of himself more, right? 'Cause I think that, I think President Trump does a very good job of showing like the raw human. And I think President Obama also I think had that similar quality on, on the other side of just showing like a, a humanity to his decision-making.

Harry Stebbings 43:43 You said about kind of showing your humanity. You got me in trouble this weekend because I said, again, to my girlfriend, Jake Paul, and honestly I was expecting maybe, I don't know, a mixed, [laughs] mixed response. And she's like, "Oh my God, did you see the video of him supporting his girlfriend at the Olympics? Oh my God. Would you do that for me? Would you have done that?"

Jake Paul 44:06 [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 44:06 I was like, "No fucking way. I would be in the office. Are you kidding?" She's like, "I knew it. I knew it. See, why can't you be more like him?"

Jake Paul 44:13 [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 44:14 [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 44:14 And I'm like, "For fuck's sake, I'm joking." You know, for backtrack. You know when you joke and it's like kind of not funny and you're like, "Oh, fuck."

Jake Paul 44:20 [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 44:20 [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 44:20 Um, it is something I wanted to touch on, which is like, I think relationships are really an art. What is your biggest advice on how to have an amazing relationship, but also crush it in, fuck, where do we start?

Harry Stebbings 44:35 Content, boxing, investing. What's your advice?

Jake Paul 44:39 I think in relationship, it's communication, and I think the, you know, you should always in the relationship pr- try to be the 60%. Like if it's 60/40, y- you and your partner should be both be fighting to be the 60%. And I think that, and be there for each other and do more and, and, and love more and support more. And like, we should always be kind of in a competition of like who, who massaged who today? Who gave the first... Who wrote the love letter? Like if, if, if my fiance writes me a love letter, I'm like, "I'm gonna write a better one back to you." So, and then she'll write another... Like, so I think that friendly competition in a [laughs] relationship is good, and communication. Letting them see you, like every side of you and fully who you are, um, I think that's very, very important from like early on. Like tell them everything from like day one. I think that builds the, the trust and the foundation.

Harry Stebbings 45:37 Is there a side of you that you're most scared to share?

Jake Paul 45:40 I'm not really afraid. I think I've talked a lot about my, my struggles more so in the past because I was, I was struggl- struggling more, um, when I was younger in like childhood fame, living in Los Angeles, being sur- surrounded by the wrong people. But I do think like dealing with mental health, like my mind can become a like crowded and dirty and stressful place, and it's a practice, uh, every day to, to manage it. And I think that's where I've like fallen in love with breathwork and me- meditation and spiritual journeys with ayahuasca, toad, mushrooms, all of these things to learn more about myself and, and my mind. Um, and so I would say like mental health is always something that can fluctuate for me, and it's something that like personally I have to actively manage.

Harry Stebbings 46:41 Do you know when it's going down?

Jake Paul 46:44 Yeah. I, I don't know. It's like, uh, it's always different. That's the weird part about it, I think. It's like not something you can like fully grasp. Um, and sometimes you like don't know until you're like in the thick of it and you're like, "Oh shit, I haven't been taking care of myself mentally."

Harry Stebbings 47:02 Do, do you hate... Sorry, I'm, I'm an addict in every way. I don't drink anymore 'cause [laughs] did that. I'm very grateful 'cause it makes me good at what I do. I'm so addicted to what I do. Are you happy or sad to be an addict?

Jake Paul 47:14 I think being addicted to, to working and like constantly doing something, but like I do wish sometimes I like think about what it would be like to like feel normal, where like I don't have to constantly be like progressing and doing things, but I don't know. Like this is my body, this is my brain, this is like my destiny, this is who I am. So like I'm not, I'm, I'm very happy about that, but it is a double-edged sword sometimes. Like you think I'm addicted to work is what you're saying?

Harry Stebbings 47:45 Well, I mean, with the greatest of respects, I think it takes one to know one, and I think to compete-

Jake Paul 47:48 [laughs] No, yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 47:49 I think, I think to compete at the level that you do as quickly as you do in sport, and to fight Anthony Joshua, Mike Tyson, with the little ramp time you have, you have to be bluntly psychopathic to get there that fast in a brilliant way. I'm saying this in a good way.

Jake Paul 48:04 Yeah, no.

Harry Stebbings 48:05 Uh, to do the multitude of things that you do at the quality that you do, you have to be an addict. A- again, I think we kind of mis- mis- uh, characterize addiction bad, and it's not always bad. It can be-

Jake Paul 48:17 Yeah

Harry Stebbings 48:17 ... I think every top, top athlete is an addict. You have to be to be the best.

Jake Paul 48:23 Would agree 1,000%.

Harry Stebbings 48:25 When you think about your training-

Jake Paul 48:25 I just think it's interesting the way you describe it as like an a- like, but, but you're right, yeah, 100%. It's-

Harry Stebbings 48:30 When you think about your training, what was nuts about your training?

Jake Paul 48:34 I mean, it's just so intense and demanding and-

Harry Stebbings 48:40 What's the most demanding?

Jake Paul 48:41 I would say the track work, like sprints at the track is just brutal, and my coach just makes me run and run and run and run. And like my heart feels like it's gonna pound out of my chest, and your body like has like a central nervous system... reaction because of how hard you're pushing yourself, and it's, like, very uncomfortable. And then just the day in and day out, and then you just, like, get lost in counting down the days until the fight, and you're just like, the monotony of it, I think, can be very demanding and, and difficult and dry and boring and lonely. I mean, they say boxing is the, the loneliest sport for a reason. Um, and, and it's, it's, it's very true. You're in there by your- yourself.

Harry Stebbings 49:25 Are you thinking when you're in it?

Jake Paul 49:27 Yeah, but I mean, I guess it becomes, like, a sort of flow state. Uh, but, but yeah, it's, it's like a super high, fast-paced thinking match, and I think that's where I told people, like, why I got good at boxing so fast is, like, pattern recognition. And I just think of it like recognizing patterns in the person that I'm fighting and then being able to expose it and doing it at the right time, and it's very calculated. And I see you dropped your hand in the first round after you threw this punch. I'm gonna wait for you to do that again in two minutes and hit you with the right punch to counter that. And adding those things up over round by round and remembering everything that they're doing and their habits and all of that is, like, a just pattern recognition game, and that's why I think I got good at it is 'cause it's just my mind is better than other, probably every boxer. If I had been doing it my whole life, I'd be the, the best boxer in the world, for sure.

Harry Stebbings 50:30 Who have you not fought that you'd like to fight?

Jake Paul 50:33 Uh, I think that the one that, like, would just be the only one that would ever come close to the Tyson numbers is, is me versus McGregor, which would be fun.

Harry Stebbings 50:46 What number would you do it for?

Jake Paul 50:47 McGregor? Good question.

Harry Stebbings 50:51 150?

Jake Paul 50:53 Yeah, I mean, it's at least worth that.

Harry Stebbings 50:55 Yeah.

Jake Paul 50:55 That's like minimum probably. [laughs] Um, but that's a good number, you know? So [laughs] like-

Harry Stebbings 51:02 When you get 150, how much do you actually take home after all the middle layer, middle layer, middle layer? It's like an Anduril SPV, you know, with a 30% SPV-

Jake Paul 51:12 [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 51:12 ... and a this and a this and this. I take home-

Geoffrey Woo 51:14 Oh, oh, Jake's a good businessman

Harry Stebbings 51:16 ... I'm the, I'm the-

Jake Paul 51:16 Well, I'm the, I'm the-

Harry Stebbings 51:16 You're talking about 10 shekels home here

Jake Paul 51:17 ... I take the most home out of any boxer. Like, I have the best setup in, in boxing 'cause I'm my own promoter, and I'm the one negotiating with the platforms. Um, and then I, I don't have a lot of people involved. It's just me and, and Nakisa on the boxing side of things. Um-

Harry Stebbings 51:39 And so you'll take home, like, an 80% versus Eddie Hearn will take home 50% normally.

Jake Paul 51:44 No, I take home, like, nearly 100%.

Harry Stebbings 51:49 Well, that's pretty fucking great, isn't it? [laughs]

Jake Paul 51:50 [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 51:51 I was, I was gonna say, like, not to get into pocket watch Jake, but I think he's, yeah, like, he's smart in structuring it and smart in the business.

Jake Paul 51:56 And the per- the percent I give is to my own company.

Harry Stebbings 52:01 I think you're missing a, a content thread. I think you should do something for the partnership. Yeah? Which is when you train for your next fight, you should bring Geoffrey to every session with you, and everything you do, Geoffrey's gotta do.

Jake Paul 52:14 [sighs]

Geoffrey Woo 52:16 I'll, I'm down, but I'll puke out pretty early.

Jake Paul 52:18 [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 52:18 [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 52:18 Like, I- I-

Jake Paul 52:19 No, it's not fun

Geoffrey Woo 52:19 ... I've done some workouts with Jake, um-

Jake Paul 52:20 Bro, I mean, yeah, like, it, it's, it's not fun, and it just keeps on getting harder. That's what it's also, like, nice about boxing but also not nice is that it's like a, a never-ending challenge, and it only gets harder as you continue to fight the best and the best, so.

Harry Stebbings 52:34 Final, final one before we do a quick fire. Like, why, why does the money matter anymore? I don't mean that badly, but, like, kind of 150, but after 90 and after all the other stuff, like, you know, you're kind of flying private anyway. You've probably got a Gulfstream anyway. Like, does it, why does it matter?

Jake Paul 52:47 It, yeah, no, it, it doesn't, um, in a lot of ways, but, like, I think, uh, on the boxing side specifically, there's still things that I want to do in terms of goals, and they don't have to do with money. I w- I wanna become world champion, um, and-

Harry Stebbings 53:04 You really do?

Jake Paul 53:05 Yeah, but just for the story. Like, just to inspire kids that I was, like, the most hated, the most doubted, the biggest underdog, the YouTuber, the Disney kid, and if I can become world champion, I think it would be the most inspiring sports story or one of the most inspiring sports stories, uh, in modern-day history, that I could inspire kids that even if all the odds are stacked against you, like, look what I did, and you can do something.

Harry Stebbings 53:36 Did you ever doubt the next transition? I've seen everyone always said, "Oh, the YouTube. Oh, the Disney star." Did you ever doubt internally in your head? I know we always tell the world, "No, no, no, it'll be great."

Jake Paul 53:46 No, for sure I did. Um, You- YouTube, like, I was done with it. I didn't like it anymore and was running into a lot of issues just with, like, demonetization. It just became a nightmare, and it was causing so many problems. And I was in Los Angeles, and I didn't like what I was doing. I was like, [clicks tongue] "I need to do something else." Um, but first I had to stop doing YouTube. I literally stopped filming. And I notice a lot of times in life you have to, like, create space for something else to come in. Um, and that's just the way life works. And so I had to literally stop, and there was, like, a space where I was trying to do things and maybe a little business over here or, uh, music. I was making songs. And then I, I, like, fell in love with boxing out of, out of nowhere. But there was a time where I was like, "I don't know what the fuck's going on." And the, and that was when I was, like, 21.

Harry Stebbings 54:50 This really is the final one. Pretty quick fire. You can only be, and Geoffrey, I know which way you want him to answer this one.

Geoffrey Woo 54:55 [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 54:55 You can be number one in the world at boxingAt

Harry Stebbings 54:59 content creation or at investing?

Jake Paul 55:02 Investing, actually, yeah.

Harry Stebbings 55:04 Genuinely?

Jake Paul 55:06 Yeah, 100%.

Harry Stebbings 55:07 Why is, why?

Jake Paul 55:09 It's, it's I think the something that I can do forever. Like and it's really enjoyable, and I really love like being a part of the, the cutting edge things in technology and like advancing society and human evolution, and being able to meet with the, and talk to and be friends with the smartest people in the world. I think it scratches my itch in my brain. I think like I'm, I'm sapiosexual in that sense.

Geoffrey Woo 55:41 I had actually no idea what he would say, but I think, uh, uh, but I think even like content, right? Like I think all of th- these things feed into each other, right? And I think, again-

Harry Stebbings 55:51 Well, they genuinely do. When he... Sorry, w- w- again, didn't mean to. But when he's crushing at boxing, when he makes better content, the investing will be easier and easier.

Geoffrey Woo 55:58 100%, 100%. And I think it's okay to, just like founders are, are o- okay to say no bad customers or not tackle certain markets, I think it's okay to be like, "Hey, you, LP, you get to allocate your money where you think you can maximize returns. If you think other people will do it better, like great, let's just see the numbers in a couple years. Let's compete."

Harry Stebbings 56:19 [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 56:19 Right? Like, I, I think-

Harry Stebbings 56:19 I know you tweeted to one of my friends, Jason Lemkin. He's this guy

Geoffrey Woo 56:23 Yeah, no, we said we're gonna have more AUM, buddy. [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 56:27 [laughs] I was just like, "Whoa"

Geoffrey Woo 56:28 We're coming for you, buddy.

Harry Stebbings 56:29 We're all fighting. [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 56:32 Yeah.

Harry Stebbings 56:32 Um, we're gonna do a quick fire. Jake, you said about making room for things in life. Would you like kids?

Jake Paul 56:39 Yeah, that's like my number one goal, honestly. Uh, that's what I think life's all about. I, I can't wait to be a father. Create my little best friends that I get to hang out with every day.

Harry Stebbings 56:52 Geoffrey, what's the best performing investment so far by multiple?

Geoffrey Woo 56:56 Um, I think a couple from our, our fund, uh, you mentioned Rahul Aerodome. That was a 10X in 18 months. Rahul had that stock in the Flock Safety, which is crushing. Rahul's now the chief strategy officer there. Um, Poly Market is a good early one, but just our incubations, right? Like we're at the ground floor. Those like BetterW crushing it. Um-

Harry Stebbings 57:18 If you can crush Better with a high ownership, that's where you really make a lot of fucking money.

Geoffrey Woo 57:23 Yeah.

Harry Stebbings 57:24 Yeah.

Geoffrey Woo 57:24 Yeah, no, like it's exciting 'cause I think with, you know, the expansion of the prediction markets and all of this stuff, I think we're excited about the opportunity ahead. But yeah. But even on, just on the personal side was a angel invest in Ramp, so that's like a, at a 50 mil entry value, so that's like a, whatever, 300X on a, on a personal side.

Harry Stebbings 57:42 Uh, Jake, Jake, dinner's on him.

Jake Paul 57:44 Yeah. [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 57:45 [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 57:45 Dude, that's so good. That's fucking A. [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 57:49 [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 57:49 Um, I wish I was... Do you wanna hear something funny? I met Eric Gleiman when he was doing Paribus, and then the night before he came out with Ramp, he was like, "Do you wanna invest in my next thing?" And I was like, "Yeah, no. Like, Paribus wasn't that big, but good luck." [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 58:03 [laughs]

Jake Paul 58:03 Yeah.

Geoffrey Woo 58:04 No, so Paribus was my first angel investment ever.

Harry Stebbings 58:06 No way.

Geoffrey Woo 58:07 Um, I went to a high school summer camp at MIT. It was like a, s- selective summer camp called RSI with, uh, Kareem and Zach Frankel.

Harry Stebbings 58:15 Yeah.

Geoffrey Woo 58:16 And, uh, they were, they were, they went to Harvard, I went to Stanford, so I was like their Silicon Valley plug.

Harry Stebbings 58:21 [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 58:21 I gave them the recommendation from Paribus to Y Combinator.

Harry Stebbings 58:24 Oh, wow.

Geoffrey Woo 58:25 And I was like, I, I don't really know what... I, I think I was probably like 24 at, at the time.

Harry Stebbings 58:30 You could have like co-founder of Ramp basically with that as the entry funnel into that.

Geoffrey Woo 58:35 I mean, I should've. [laughs]

Jake Paul 58:36 [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 58:37 Geoffrey-

Geoffrey Woo 58:37 I should've

Jake Paul 58:37 You wouldn't be sitting here with me today. [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 58:39 [laughs] You'd be like, "Fuck Jake Paul." [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 58:41 [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 58:41 Jake, what's the most expensive item you've bought that you've never used?

Jake Paul 58:46 I mean, the, the first thing that comes to mind is like my f- my Ferrari has like 100 miles on it, and I think it came with like 60. [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 58:57 How much was that?

Jake Paul 58:58 Uh, like s- 800,000. So-

Harry Stebbings 59:00 You just don't like it?

Jake Paul 59:02 No, I'm just like, I have too many cars and other ones as well. [laughs] Like, and there's a lot... Yeah. The w- so I'm building a racetrack so I can use these cars. I have-

Harry Stebbings 59:12 I've heard about this at the ranch.

Jake Paul 59:13 Yeah.

Harry Stebbings 59:13 Yeah.

Jake Paul 59:14 So that, that's... I'm like, "Bro, why do I have these cars if I can't drive 'em?" But like I can't, it's not fun for me to drive 'em on the roads 'cause I can't like rip it, so that's probably the thing that comes to mind.

Harry Stebbings 59:24 Well, maybe we can cross 100 miles soon then on that Ferrari.

Jake Paul 59:27 Let's fucking go, bro. Let's race.

Harry Stebbings 59:28 I need, I need to get my-

Jake Paul 59:29 Let's race.

Harry Stebbings 59:30 You very kindly suggested driving on the track before, Geoffrey. I don't have my license. Yeah.

Jake Paul 59:35 Actually?

Geoffrey Woo 59:36 Well, it's a private track, so Jake can maybe bless you. Just-

Harry Stebbings 59:38 Oh, that's great.

Jake Paul 59:38 Wait, why don't you have your license?

Harry Stebbings 59:40 Um, well, in London, dude, we don't need to drive, do we? 'Cause we have Uber, and it's a city. And so-

Geoffrey Woo 59:46 Autonomous cars soon, so no one needs to drive

Harry Stebbings 59:47 You just never need to drive. Geoffrey, what fund product do you not have today that you would most like to have? Could be growth fund, could be fund of funds, could be, um, secondary fund, could be credit. You name it. What do you not have that you'd like to have?

Geoffrey Woo 1:00:04 Um, no, I think, uh, you said before the show, like I think we've just been scaling up AUM, so we're well within nine digits now. Um, I think Jake and I are, are very interested in the public markets.

Harry Stebbings 1:00:15 How does that look in a product? Like you guys do a public fund?

Geoffrey Woo 1:00:19 Yes. I mean, uh, basic- I mean, I, I, I think, I... I guess the way to think about it is that, um, one of the edges that Jake brings to the table is mass distribution, right? And I think the public markets are just, you know, trillions of dollars of mark- of, of assets out there that we could prosecute against. So I think it's, again, it g- it goes back to like the start. It's just like, okay, if we don't set limiters in terms of our ambition and our skill set, like you play the largest markets. So, uh, the, oh, let's, let's keep, keep playing.

Harry Stebbings 1:00:51 AX Capital, watch out. Um, when I say high performance, Jake, who's the first person that comes to mind, and why?

Jake Paul 1:00:59 I thought of Michael Phelps, I guess. [laughs] I don't know. [laughs] I think-

Harry Stebbings 1:01:03 I love Michael Phelps because he dispels the bullshit that you need to have a break, you need to have a rest day

Jake Paul 1:01:08 Yeah. I just think of, like, greatness at the highest level, and it's, it's measurable, and so I think that's why he comes to mind. And, like, you can't n- like, necessarily measure, like, okay, this is the greatest investor, but, like, that's in that time. Like, who is the best right now? And that's not, like, super measurable. Um, but that's, I think, why Michael Phelps came to mind.

Harry Stebbings 1:01:38 Final one for both of you, and you have to give a different answer. If we sit down in 10 years' time, how would you define it has been very successful as a venture fund, as an investing house?

Geoffrey Woo 1:01:51 You wanna start or I-

Jake Paul 1:01:52 Yeah. I mean, we, we making [laughs] our LPs, uh, very wealthy as, as well as our, ourselves and, and being a part of shaping history and the shaping the greatest companies i- in the world, and, um, yeah, making billions of dollars doing it for, for everyone and for ourselves.

Geoffrey Woo 1:02:13 Yeah. I think it's well said. I, I would foc- like, my take on it would be focused on there's probably, like, 100 humans over the next 10 years that will change history, and we wanna be supporters, comrades in arms, in the trenches, building, like, the civilizational changing companies and the people that are, you know, out, at the ground floor doing it. So if we can be associated and, and friends with, you know, a large portion of that 100 people, that would be a huge honor.

Harry Stebbings 1:02:43 Guys, listen, this was such a joy to do. Jay, I'm so glad that you'd sit down with a 36-year-old.

Jake Paul 1:02:47 [laughs]

Geoffrey Woo 1:02:48 [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 1:02:48 I really appreciate it. [laughs] Me and Geoffrey, I mean, he went to university and I'm 36, so it's a tough one.

Jake Paul 1:02:54 Yeah. I'm gonna regret that one for a long time.

Harry Stebbings 1:02:56 Which we, uh, we, we did pretty well. I mean, this guy, Stanford? He's smart.

Jake Paul 1:02:58 Yeah. No, he's great.

Harry Stebbings 1:03:00 Jay. Jay.

Jake Paul 1:03:01 [laughs]

Harry Stebbings 1:03:01 You're gonna regret the 36.

Jake Paul 1:03:02 I'm gonna regret saying that to you, but, but someone told me that once. They were like, "Oh, I think..." Uh, and this was when I was, like, 24. They were like, "Oh, I think you're, like, 35." And I was like, "That's fucked up."