The Twenty Minute VCJake Paul: Traditional VC is Toast & Attention is More Valuable than Cash
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
60 min read · 11,880 words- 0:00 – 1:20
Intro
- GWGeoffrey Woo
It goes back to, like, one of our founding principles, which is attention is more valuable than capital.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Today we have such a different one for you. Jake Paul, one of the most recognizable people on the planet, is in the studio, baby. He's here with his partner, Geoffrey Woo. What you don't know about Jake, he's probably one of the best investors of the last few years with his fund, the Anti Fund. They back the likes of Ramp, Cognition, Chronosphere, and many others.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Can VCs become influencers faster than, like, native influencers like Jake and Logan can become VCs?
- HSHarry Stebbings
This is a show unlike any that Jake has done before, ranging from politics to parenting to the next generation of great investments.
- JPJake Paul
You don't want a career politician running a business. The first startup in America was America. It's a fucking business. I take home, like, nearly 100%.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Well, that's pretty fucking great, isn't it? [laughs]
- JPJake Paul
[laughs]
- HSHarry Stebbings
This was a fascinating discussion revealing a side to Jake that I don't think many people have seen before.
- JPJake Paul
YouTube, like, I was done with it. I didn't like it anymore.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Do you think Trump's doing a good job?
- JPJake Paul
Yes, I do. I, I think-
- HSHarry Stebbings
Ready to go? [upbeat music] Boys, it is so good to have you in the studio. I'm so excited that we got to do this in person,
- 1:20 – 3:13
Overview of the Jake Paul Business Empire
- HSHarry Stebbings
so thank you for joining me.
- JPJake Paul
100%, man. Thank you for having us.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Now, I wanna start on the fund. This is a VC show first and foremost. But I actually spoke to John at Wander, who is a portfolio company of yours, and he said that you've actually got to start with just mapping out the Jake Paul business empire ecosystem to fully understand what it's like. Can you just give us, like, an overview and, wh- whoever's best for this, an overview of what the Jake Paul business empire looks like today?
- JPJake Paul
Yeah, so it goes, like, anywhere from being a peanut farmer-
- HSHarry Stebbings
[laughs]
- JPJake Paul
... to, uh, fighting Anthony Joshuas, um, to venture and, you know, working with OpenAI [laughs] and advising them. Um, but yeah, I have, I have a ranch where, like, I literally sell peanuts. But yeah, like, it's, it's, it's, it's entertainment mixed, yeah, obviously with, with, uh, the entrepreneurial vibes, but it's, you know, Better, which is sports gaming. It's W-
- HSHarry Stebbings
I spoke to the founder beforehand.
- JPJake Paul
Okay. Joey?
- HSHarry Stebbings
Yeah.
- JPJake Paul
He's great. He's great.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Yeah, I spoke to Joey. I think-
- JPJake Paul
Wow, you really, you really talked to everyone. [laughs]
- HSHarry Stebbings
Dude, dude, I did. I was like, "Listen, are you Jo- Jake obviously, um, you know, invests in you guys." He's like, "No, he didn't. He co-founded it with me."
- JPJake Paul
Yeah.
- HSHarry Stebbings
And, and so we had a lovely chat.
- JPJake Paul
Yeah.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Oh, dude, I'm-- I, I do my work.
- JPJake Paul
Yeah, you're locked in.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Yeah.
- JPJake Paul
But, yeah.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
This is why I like the show. I mean, maybe the way, like, 'cause I- it's easier for me to brag about Jake, but I think the highest order bit is that I think Jake represents the next generation of Americans and what they want to be like. And I think we have a unique opportunity to not just be an in-- Jake being an inspirational model, but also be a capital force and an attention force to drive a future and a culture that we wanna see. So I think if you stem from a, just a demographic perspective, right? The number one job that young people wanna have is to be an influencer.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Yeah.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
I think one of Jake's personal missions is how to inspire the next generation of young men and-
- HSHarry Stebbings
Jake, are you proud when you hear
- 3:13 – 5:42
Why Start a $30M Fund When Boxing Makes $100M+?
- HSHarry Stebbings
the number one job aspiration is to be an influencer?
- JPJake Paul
Yeah, and so it's funny. I've actually, like... It's been that way since I was, uh, like, 18. They did, like-- Some company did a study when Vine and YouTube was, like, popping, and the-- and I've known that statistic, uh, for the longest time.
- HSHarry Stebbings
But do you think that's healthy? 'Cause I, I, I don't think you wanted to be an influencer.
- JPJake Paul
No, exactly. That-- And that's what I tell people. They're like, "Well, how do I be like you?" I said, "Don't. Like, be yourself." And also, like, are you entertaining? Like, you have to really ask yourself that question. And, like, can you actually do this, and are you smart? Are you creative? Do you have the work ethic? You know, like, you know how much work you just put in just for this one podcast.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Yeah.
- JPJake Paul
And people don't really, like, see the behind-the-scenes, um, things that go into these videos. And, uh, it's become second nature to me, and I have a team and all that stuff, but it's still, like, a full-time grind.
- HSHarry Stebbings
What do people not see work-wise that you wish they saw most?
- JPJake Paul
I don't care for them to see, [laughs] but, um, they don't see the-- there's, like, so much genius in every point one second of content that I make. Like, every little millisecond is calculated and dialed and thought through. I think that stems from being a creator from Vine, where you had 6.9 seconds. People thought it was six, but it's actually 6.9.
- HSHarry Stebbings
[laughs]
- JPJake Paul
Um, and every second had to, and millisecond had to be measured out and calculated and changed and edited around. And so I think that, like, meticulous nature of what I do and create has, you know, obviously helped me since, since the beginning. Um, and constant-- Almost like-- It's almost like politics with my team, where we're, like, arguing about every little second or song of the video or things like that that actually matter.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Do you lose the art in the science?
- JPJake Paul
Um, I don't think so. I think the art, the-- I think the sci- the art happens, like, when we're filming. The science is, like, in post and in the edit. And so, uh, you know, like, it goes back to the question of, like, people wanna be influencers, but, like, are you naturally good at it? And are you naturally, like, able to talk on camera and tell the story? At the end of the day, I'm, like, a
- 5:42 – 10:35
What Jake Actually Brings to Venture Beyond Distribution
- JPJake Paul
storyteller in a sense, and so, um, that's, that's the art. And yeah.
- HSHarry Stebbings
It's interesting. So are the best founders, and so are the best fundraisers. What makes a great story?
- JPJake Paul
Conflict and struggle and, um, loveWould be the top three answers for that. And, and I purposely invoke emotions in people as a entertainer. I want people to feel like fear or joy or hate or something. I don't care what they feel, but I know in certain videos what I'm gonna make them feel. Like, I posted a edit where, like, I acted like I was depressed and, like, d- really, like, couldn't find meaning, meaning in my life, and so, like, t- it went super viral 'cause, like, people were like, "Yo, are you okay?" People were texting me like, "Yo, are you okay? Like, I saw your video." And I'm just like, "No, I'm just, I'm just a entertainer."
- GWGeoffrey Woo
[laughs]
- JPJake Paul
Like, I'm just making people think I'm depressed. Like...
- GWGeoffrey Woo
And I think the boldness of, of character too, right? Like, I think Jake is very authentic and passionate about what he believes in, so it would, would add that layer, I think.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Does that ever make your life harder on the institutional side? Is it difficult for you where you have to project confidence to institutions and with respect, Jake is doing content that might seem a bit down or distracted or whatever that might be?
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Yeah. I, I, I think to me it's, it's, it's clearly polarizing, but it's very obvious, right? It's a double-edged sword, right? Like, Jake has such a big persona and character that, um, one can't just be dismissive on first glance. But I'm okay with that because at end of the day, we're in the money-making business, and our track record makes money. So if it's like, hey, LPs, uh, don't understand the marketing and the attention gathering, it's like, okay, we'll make other pe- we'll make ourselves and other people more money that are a little bit smarter than you guys. So I think the... It, it... So I think it's like you either lean into the brashness or the aggressiveness, or you try to, like, hide it. And I think every great story, every great founder, every great business is like you lean into strength, right? Like, you wanna be the best in the world, and I think we have a chance to be the best in the world on our exact style of investing and company formation.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Is all publicity good publicity? It's the age-old saying, and I nem- I'm never sure.
- JPJake Paul
Yeah. It's a very interesting question. Uh, there is, besides, like [laughs] a couple of things.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
[laughs]
- JPJake Paul
You know, like-
- HSHarry Stebbings
Don't mention the island.
- JPJake Paul
Yeah. No, that's what I was gonna say.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
[laughs]
- JPJake Paul
It's like, yo, like-
- HSHarry Stebbings
I should actually have like-
- JPJake Paul
I was like, "Bri- is Epstein's publicity good?"
- GWGeoffrey Woo
[laughs]
- JPJake Paul
Like, no. [laughs] Like, not all of it's good, no. [laughs] It's a, it's a bad saying. [laughs]
- HSHarry Stebbings
Do you regret saying that you were uncancelable? That-
- JPJake Paul
No. No, not at all.
- HSHarry Stebbings
You don't?
- JPJake Paul
The... No, 'cause I'm not, 'cause I've never done anything that is bad, actually.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Yeah. It's funny-
- JPJake Paul
Like, actually
- HSHarry Stebbings
... it's funny that-
- JPJake Paul
Actually bad. Like, I've been a dumb, arrogant kid, or I filmed videos or things around fire. Like, okay, cool. If everyone's life was on camera from the time they were 14 years old and let, like, we put a camera on you 24/7 through your college years, like, what were you doing at that frat party?
- HSHarry Stebbings
[laughs]
- JPJake Paul
Like, that's probably much worse than-
- 10:35 – 16:16
What the Fund Sells to Founders & Why Attention Beats Capital
- HSHarry Stebbings
and then you are the finder and the picker. Is that correct?
- GWGeoffrey Woo
I, I, I mean, I think it's really, like, a true partnership of one. So I think in terms of, like... I think Jake has... A- and I think people underestimate Jake's reps and what he sees, right? Like, even just describing, like, the nuances of, like, 6.9 seconds on a product feature, right? In some sense, he was a f- early adopter in all the social platforms as a creator. So I think that same skill set in terms of knowing what is coming around the corner, understanding consumer sentiment, is essentially the same instinct as u- us as VCs being like, "Hey, you know, this guy's a winner," or, "This girl's a winner, and their product and their vision, their roadmap makes a lot of sense." So I think the picking side, I don't think it's... You, we shouldn't underestimate Jake's, like, taste there.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Yeah.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
And I would argue that with AI making traditional smart people stuff like coding and financial analysis as just metered intelligence, I would argue that having taste, having, uh, that cultural vibe, and then I think that's, like, one of your, like, big edges as an investor.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Mm.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
I think you're just cooler and more with it and vibe with, like, the next generation of founders much better than a boomer VC.
- HSHarry Stebbings
[laughs]
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Um, and I think you deserve, like, the success on the platform and your, and, and your funds. I think that's the, the challenge or the gauntlet that we're, like, excited to fight with. It's like I just saw that Bill Gurley was tweeting that, um, you know, paid marketing is, like, the worst form of marketing, and I'm just like, hey, Uber. Like, he's m- most well-known for kicking out Travis from Uber.And U- and Uber burnt like tens of billions of dollars on straight-up marketing and just got the profitability. It's showing a quarter of net income po- positive 14, 15 years in. So my sense is that the software and like the classic smart people stuff gets commoditized, and the attention, the taste, the culture side gets more and more important. So I think the world goes into our favor versus away.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Keith Rabois from Coatla and pre- previously Founders Fund said that it's really important to know what we sell as investors, like what our product is, and I quite like that framing. When you think of the product that you sell founders, do you sell founders distribution, and how do you think about keeping the brand and the profile pure and not being like Better partnership and, uh, Sips Mugs and all the other companies, Oats Overnight, I did my work, uh, that you partner with?
- JPJake Paul
Yeah, no, I, I, I think, um, each is, ea- to each their own. And w- it's not, we're not like plugging, saying like, "Yo, we are gonna give you distribution" in companies where we don't think we're gonna do that. Uh, we can provide-
- HSHarry Stebbings
And so you're super up front, like, "Hey, we're not gonna be distributing you on our platforms, but we'd love to partner with you."
- JPJake Paul
Yeah, and I think there's tons of other, you know, things to, to provide, um, just in terms of knowing culture and marketing and, and just information in general, and, "Hey, you should do this. You should link with this person. This would be a good access point." There's, you know, like a religion app that we're investors in. It's like, "Okay, do you want to like m- you know, link with Trump's pastor? Like, I have his phone number." Like things like that.
- HSHarry Stebbings
That is the most random networking tip I've ever had. [laughs]
- JPJake Paul
It is. But it's like, but it's like, it's like-
- HSHarry Stebbings
Trump's pastor. [laughs]
- JPJake Paul
It's like-
- HSHarry Stebbings
Uh, yeah, sure. Why not? [laughs]
- JPJake Paul
It's like, yo, this, we can provide value in, in, in tons of different ways, and I think each company is a different conversation.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
What do the, quote unquote, "best VCs" even do? A lot of it's those like int- introductions to revenue sources. Like we are a phone call away from literally any executive, any billionaire in the world. It's like w- would you rather have a Jake Paul introduction or some random boomer-suited VC make that intro? The response rate and the integration rate is like super high. We can compete with the guys who've been doing this for 30, 40 years because, one, the founders of those funds have been dead or, or, or, or gone. It's just other guys who got hired into doing this, and I think we have a fresh take on saying, "Hey, let's compete."
- HSHarry Stebbings
I'd have like a sniper shot late stage strategy if I was you. Like, and what I mean by that is just like have 10 of the best companies that we all agree are late stage and just aggressively go after them. Now I know you're invested in Ramp for one of them. Uh, I think you're in Anduril. But, and I'd just leverage the shit out of the personal brands and put $10, 20, $30 million to work.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
I think that's actually the correct way to think about it.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Yeah.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
I think late stage, I think we have unfair access advantage, and I think our actual, our, our value add is actually very valuable too. Because at that growth stage, you're looking at IPOs.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Yeah.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
You're looking at mass media branding. And I think if you, again, look at track record, you can spend millions of dollars on like some marketing VP or some CMO or, or some agency. Literally Jake has driven probably like billions of dollars of enterprise value and impressions and all, like across all his... In, in, in terms of new media. And in some sense, like I see what Mark and Ben are doing with their podcast-
- HSHarry Stebbings
True
- GWGeoffrey Woo
... media company is essentially like... And, and one thought I had was that can VCs become influencers faster than like native influencers like Jake and Logan can become VCs?
- HSHarry Stebbings
Huh.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Right? Like that's kind of like the battle. Like-
- HSHarry Stebbings
That's a really good-
- 16:16 – 18:00
How Jake Knew Boxing Would Have a Revival Before Everyone Else
- JPJake Paul
principles, which is a- attention is more valuable than capital.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Okay, so when we think about that, we have early and then we have late stage.
- JPJake Paul
Right.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Great. Got it. And then we have incubations as well, 'cause you do Better as well?
- JPJake Paul
Yeah.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Yeah.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Okay, so we wanna start companies as part of it.
- JPJake Paul
Yeah. Not, not, not too many. Obviously, like takes a, a ton of work. But, um, incubated, uh, Better and, and W. Um, and then yeah, my brother's working on something now. And, uh, obviously, like he built Prime as well.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Yeah.
- JPJake Paul
So that- that's a part of the strategy coming in with, with ownership. But also, you know, just seeing a gap in the market. With Better, it was all these sports gaming companies paying hundreds and hundreds and billions of dollars in marketing and seeing that their ads were terrible, their app was clunky, it didn't make sense. And I was like, "Yo, I could build a better app and promote it better and have better content," and that's why we created Better. So [laughs] Better, Better, Better. We're like-
- HSHarry Stebbings
What deal are you not in that you would most like to be in?
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Pff. Um, a couple that... I, I wanna do m- I think we wanna do a little bit more in Europe. So I think Helsing is cool. I think, uh, with geopolitics, I think there needs to be like a European Neo Prime for defense.
- JPJake Paul
I agree.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Um, we're chatting with M- Maddy over at Eleven Labs. I think they're doing great stuff.
- JPJake Paul
Yeah.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Maddy's amazing.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Yeah. But g- going to your point, um, we should, I, I, I think with the power law of just like the winners are just super big, I think it just makes sense to just try to pick the number ones and maybe the number twos in every single category.
- HSHarry Stebbings
How much time can you realistically spend on venture?
- 18:00 – 20:48
The Treadmill of Relevance: How to Stay at the Top
- JPJake Paul
I mean, I spend a lot of time on it. I think, uh, people don't realize like how involved I am, and we're constantly on a day-to-day basis talking, catching up, texting in a constant flow.Weekly calls, et cetera, et cetera. So, um, very, very involved and flying to SF multiple times a year, meeting on the ground floor with people, um, advising the companies that we're a part of, meeting with our, you know, different companies, et cetera. So very passionate about it. And I, and it's because I like it. I would say I s- in, in a, some of the other things that I do, I don't, um, spend as much time, like, in the weeds, but this is, like, something I've always loved since I was 17, 18 years old, and seeing, uh, you know, in SF the Ubers and the Twitters of the world, and Postmates, and getting to see these companies when I was that young, like, made an, an impression on me, and I've always loved it since then.
- HSHarry Stebbings
One thing I find hard is when we sell brand and we sell media, which is in some ways what we sell as our differentiator, one challenging element is I feel relevance is this constant fight. You constantly are on a treadmill, and you say about your Jack Altman's going to banner. Yeah, and Jack's got a fucking podcast, and so does Sequoia. I mean, every fund has a podcast. And then you have net new people. I sometimes feel like Madonna, and there's fucking Dua Lipa at the party. Okay? [laughs]
- JPJake Paul
[laughs] Yeah. No-
- HSHarry Stebbings
I bet you... But Connie said I look 36. Thanks, Connie.
- JPJake Paul
No. [laughs]
- HSHarry Stebbings
As a proud 28-year-old, I sit here and go, uh, th- that treadmill for relevance is hard. Do you find that treadmill for relevance hard? Do you feel-
- JPJake Paul
I don't because I've, like, broken through, like, escape velocity, and just me being me now, like, keeps me there.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Yeah.
- JPJake Paul
And I have a counterpart brother. [chuckles] Like, we're like, uh, the, the testosterone Kardashians, right? So, like, if I'm not doing something in the media, he's literally at the flag football NFL beefing with Tom Brady, the most, like, talked about thing in sports for the whole week, right? So, like, we go back and forth, and we've built this ecosystem, and we're just differentiated and, um, in the right markets in sports, in content, in, you know, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, and we've been at the forefront of it since foundation. So, like, I'm in a different league. But I think for other creators and influencers, it's like a dying market for sure, and it's, it's very hard for people to stay i- in the know.
- HSHarry Stebbings
We, we are seeing more and more creators, influencers move into investing.
- 20:48 – 22:08
What Other Creators Get Wrong When Moving Into Investing
- HSHarry Stebbings
What would you say to them knowing what you know now?
- JPJake Paul
It's a very tough game, and if you, like, actually aren't good at it or know how to do it, then, like, maybe don't just, like, try to do it. 'Cause it's almost second nature to me because I have vision and can see, like, where things are heading. I'm ahead of culture and these things, you know, since I was a kid. And so we can see where things are going, and I think it is an actual talent and, and skill set to be in the right rooms, to know who to talk to, to know where to spend time, um, and know how to get what you want. And so I would say a lot of people, like, can't do that necessarily.
- HSHarry Stebbings
What do you see now that other people don't see about culture, about taste?
- JPJake Paul
That's like asking, like, a [chuckles] um, karate master to, like, show you all of his moves. [chuckles]
- HSHarry Stebbings
Welcome to the show, Jake. [laughs]
- JPJake Paul
Like, I'm not... [laughs] Like, like, uh, very-- It's almost, like, instinctual, um-
- HSHarry Stebbings
Around the founder or the market?
- JPJake Paul
Both, and culture, and, like, content and, um... I don't know. It's like, I think it's just, like, a feeling, right? Like, like, how do I- I don't know. Like, how do I know, like, what video to make, right?
- 22:08 – 25:49
How Jake Predicts Viral Videos With 85% Accuracy
- JPJake Paul
Like, it's just, like, s- it's become, it's become second nature. I'll give you an example though.
- HSHarry Stebbings
What, what's your hit rate on videos?
- JPJake Paul
Um, pretty good. Like, I can, I think me and my, like, me and my number one c- content guy, um, before we post a video, we'll predict how many views it's gonna get, and, like, pretty much accurate like 85% of the time.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Really?
- JPJake Paul
Yeah.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Wow.
- JPJake Paul
Within like, like we'll say, like, "This is gonna get 8.5 million," or, "This is gonna get 30. This is one's gonna get 40." Um, so I don't know. It's just like second nature in a sense. An example is boxing and where, where I saw to become the greatest, like, celebrity influencer boxer-
- HSHarry Stebbings
Mm
- JPJake Paul
... to the point where I n- wanted to become world champion because I knew that boxing was gonna have a, a revival p- in part because of me, and I saw the attention, the, the views, how much people liked it, the drama, and the money that was in it, and I made the point to become the best one in it. And then I excelled out of the group of just being influencer boxer and went into, like, actually, oh, this kid can, like, become world champion because I saw where everything was going, and that it was gonna m- have a revival and be on the forefront of things like Netflix and, um, m- being able to make, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars from it before everyone else. And there was a reason why all the other influencers fell behind.
- HSHarry Stebbings
I, I, I always get in trouble for saying what's on my mind. Do you ever, do you ever do or say shit and then go, "Oh, shit." Matt Anthony Joshua, he's a big fucking guy. [laughs] Like I, I, I do my pushups.
- JPJake Paul
Yeah. [laughs]
- HSHarry Stebbings
He's a big guy. Uh, when-- Do you ever say things and then you're like, "Oh, dear. Went too far there"?
- JPJake Paul
No, I don't think so.
- HSHarry Stebbings
You don't?
- JPJake Paul
Like in public?
- HSHarry Stebbings
When you stand next to him, you're not actually like, "Oh, fuck. I shouldn't have done this one." [laughs]
- JPJake Paul
Oh, no. I think, like-
- HSHarry Stebbings
You're so cool. He's just like, "Nah, it was fine."
- JPJake Paul
No, like even someone literally came up to me this morning in the freaking spa area at the hotel and was like, "Mate, that was amazing. Um,You're s- it was crazy that you did that, but you left with your stock higher. That's what he said. [laughs]
- HSHarry Stebbings
You left with your stock higher?
- JPJake Paul
Yeah. Which is, like, for me, it was a win-win-win across the board fighting him, and I knew that going into it. Um, and, and I knew that I could actually, like, hang in there with him, and the s- the world would be shocked by my heart and skill set. And even if he was to knock me out or knock me down, I would just keep on getting back up.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Yeah.
- JPJake Paul
Um, and so I think the, the fight actually humanized me a bit, and people got to see a different side of me.
- HSHarry Stebbings
It's funny, Rahul said, "He's really dialed in that it doesn't matter if I win or lose, attention makes me money, boxing business."
- JPJake Paul
Yeah.
- HSHarry Stebbings
You, you stand by that?
- JPJake Paul
Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And, and, you know, like, it just... It's all math, right? Like, is it better to... I, I was more nervous to fight Gervonta Davis, um, because if you lose to, like, a tiny person, um, people would be like, "Oh, you suck." So it's actually better to lose to a giant. [laughs]
- HSHarry Stebbings
When we think about kind of culture, and you mentioned AI there in terms of the tooling, people ascribe that sport is the most exciting asset class because it is, uh, defensible to AI. You're not gonna see robots fighting in the same way that you'd expect to see humans fighting. Do you agree with that in terms of the kind of,
- 25:49 – 29:43
Is Sport the Most Defensible Asset Class in an AI World?
- HSHarry Stebbings
uh, rising stock price of sport in a world of AI?
- JPJake Paul
Yeah. W- we've been on that side of the, the thinking, but I think things are gonna get weird. So, like, I can't say for sure, like, w- I... That, that, that's a open question for me still.
- HSHarry Stebbings
What do you mean things are gonna get weird?
- JPJake Paul
You know, if you... If I can put into, you know, Cognition or, or any of these things and develop my own game that's personally tailored for me with a couple clicks of a button, why would I watch, you know, the NBA when, like, this game I made for myself has all my favorite things in, in it, and friends and storytelling, and I made my own World of Warcraft or Minecraft in a day. It... Will that suck away the entertainment? Or I made my own whole Netflix movie the exact way I wanted it with certain shit in it. Will that personalization take away from other forms of entertainment, which is sport? Like, that's where I mean things might get weird.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Are you excited for the future?
- JPJake Paul
Yeah. [laughs] I mean, like, um-
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Yeah. No, the answer has to be yes. I think it has to be.
- JPJake Paul
Yeah, I love the... I, yeah, like [laughs] I, I don't even-
- HSHarry Stebbings
I, I, I don't know. In all honesty, I'm quite scared. I'm quite scared because I think the majority of society will become unemployed. Most of actually kind of low-level work I think will be replaced. I think a lot of white-collar work will be replaced. Um, I think we're facing this massive kind of the depressed society of young people looking for meaning. We've got, um, terrible, terrible eating disorders that are worse than ever. I- I'm nervous. And then on top of that, we have world conflict like never before.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Yeah.
- JPJake Paul
I always said this, like, 100 years ago, you know, when they were m- you know, coming up with the atom bomb and the nuke, and people were like, "Oh, we're so scared. Oh, what's gonna happen?" Uh, there's always, like, fear in the development of, you know, human society and new technologies, and I'm sure people were scared of cars at some point. Like, "What's this gonna mean? It's gonna take my job," or, "I can go get another job." Like, it's... You can either look at it on the positive, but I believe... And obviously it's going faster now and developing faster, but I, I think humans will figure this shit out.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Yeah. I was... I, I think that's well said. I, I think you have to look at the optimism and how do you be a beneficiary of this, of this change. So I think we each need to make a decision. Do you accelerate and drive faster into it and have a chance to take the steering wheel, or do you sit back and, like, be scared and crash into the wall? So I think-
- HSHarry Stebbings
Well, we're in Europe, so we'll, we'll, we'll sit back and be scared.
- JPJake Paul
You guys are gonna crash into the wall. [laughs]
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Yeah. We'll sit... [laughs]
- HSHarry Stebbings
[laughs]
- JPJake Paul
You guys are, you guys are... No, I think-
- HSHarry Stebbings
If that's an option, we'll, we'll take that one.
- JPJake Paul
Yeah. Well, you guys, you- [laughs]
- GWGeoffrey Woo
No, I wanna take a harder stance. I feel like y- y- Europe-
- HSHarry Stebbings
Take a harder stance. Come on
- GWGeoffrey Woo
... I feel like Europe is, like, the sick man of, of, of, of the world right now. I feel like Europe could... Has some of the foundational civilizational, like, of Western culture that came out of here, London, Brit- England, right? Um, and it feels that, like, they're not seizing the opportunity to lead, to create the future. So I think humanity is driven by people that seize the opportunity, and I think you can decide, are we going to be passive onlookers of change, or are we gonna be driving that change?
- HSHarry Stebbings
What opportunity did you not seize that you wish you had seized?
- JPJake Paul
Should I have just, like, been in the Valley founding, you know, some company and being, uh, just more involved in, in tech? Uh, but I don't know. I, I don't have, like, any regrets or nothing, anything comes up like that. But I, I do like the Drake line where he's like, uh, "If we hadn't made it here, we would be out in Silicon trying to get our billions on."
- HSHarry Stebbings
[laughs]
- JPJake Paul
And I always relate with that. Like,
- 29:43 – 31:40
Where Jake's Drive Came From
- JPJake Paul
if I didn't... [laughs] Like, I think it's a good line.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Does money make you happy?
- JPJake Paul
Money buys freedom, and I think freedom makes people happy. Um, but I think there i- the, the famous saying, like, more money, more problems is, like, all, all way too true. Um, so I think it's a double-edged sword, for sure. Um, there's a lot more to manage, a lot more stress, but then there's also a lot more freedom. And if you wanna survive, it's, like, no different than, than food. Like, Mom was a nurse, and, uh, Dad was a roofer. Um, we, we were fine, but, like, wasn't around a- anything, like-
- HSHarry Stebbings
Where'd you get your animalistic drive from?
- JPJake Paul
Yeah. I think, uh, I, I remember a specific moment whereMy parents were getting divorced, and my dad had to pay, like, a lot of alimony and he was crying. It was one of the only times I've ever seen him cry 'cause he had to sell, like, everything he loved to be able to, like, afford living. And I thought to myself, like, I never wanna be this, like, crying father who doesn't, i- isn't able to afford much and telling his kids we have to move to a different house, and selling everything that he l- like, I remember he had to fucking sell his snowboard, like, his little shitty snowboard, just for, like, $150 and stuff like that, and it's like now I'm blessed to be able to s- even just to snowboard. So I think of small things like that, and that, that moment definitely stuck out to me to be like, "Yo, I don't wanna be in that position, so I need to figure out money."
- HSHarry Stebbings
We, we were chatting before about, I said, you know, I told my girlfriend about having you on the show and I think there's a lot that, uh, the world doesn't know about Jake, but they think they know from the public persona. You obviously work with him on a daily basis. What does the world not
- 31:40 – 35:36
What the World Gets Wrong About Jake Paul
- HSHarry Stebbings
know that you know from the unique perspective that you have?
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Yeah. Jake, I think, is, like, a fundamentally a very kind, generous human, so I think a lot of the philanthropy, supporting young up-and-comers, you know, I, I d- you know, anecdotes of, like, you know, friends that are suicidal coming to Jake for help and just Jake spending his time and money to just take care of people, I think is undertold. But maybe that's, like, a, a fine way to, to be about it. I don't think Jake is doing it for PR. I think he just genuinely is, like, a very kind, generous human being, um, which may be, like, alternative to, like, the, you know, I'm a boxer beating and talking shit to Mike Tyson type of a character that he, that he projects.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Are you ever just sitting there like, "Oh, no, no.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
[laughs]
- HSHarry Stebbings
Be nice. D- don't say that to Mike." [laughs]
- GWGeoffrey Woo
No. I, I think... Well, one, I'm f-
- JPJake Paul
We're selling fights, dog. [laughs]
- HSHarry Stebbings
[laughs]
- GWGeoffrey Woo
I'm fucking in it. Uh, yeah. I, I think we're thick as... We're just in it, so, like, I'm just, I'm on the fucking rollercoaster. Um-
- HSHarry Stebbings
[laughs] Jake's like, "Yeah." [laughs]
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Yeah. No, I do. I'm laughing.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Fuck you, Mike.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Dude, no, no, no, but I think-
- HSHarry Stebbings
[laughs]
- GWGeoffrey Woo
... I think part of where we late- I think I have, like, a troll tendency myself. I just, I kinda like seeing kinda the absurdity or the chaos of just, like, seeing funny things happen in the world. I think there's, like, an amusement part of just, like, this is interesting. I get to perceive an interesting experience. I wanna see more interesting stuff, and if Jake is, like, out there making interesting things happen in the world, that's really funny to me, um, on a personal level. And then maybe that's the second point in terms of just, you know, w- w- working closely. Just I'm very impressed with the endurance and the context-switching ability. And maybe I, I think, I think we're, we, we got to spend, like, three hours with the president a couple weeks ago, and I, and I... Maybe not to make the direct comparison, but I was just very impressed with the president just, like, on and, like, context-switching really hard, remembering people's faces, having good conversations, going to a rally, dancing, going on a podcast, doing a TikTok dance, and just, like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Just, like, switching and being in flow constantly. I think that's one thing that I see some parallel. Like, I think Jake's just raw energy output is very, very high, and I can speak to that as being, you know, top of my class at Stanford, graduated computer science honors and distinction, had a perfect SAT score. Like, you know, I, I've seen the caliber of, like, quote, unquote, "smart people" and, like, the endurance and, and energy levels, and I think it's like Jake's endurance and energy is, like, very, very high. And then I think the other part that I think is, like, a interesting nuance is that he can switch from being, like, a celebrity, getting, like, paparazzi when we're out in LA, to, like, talking shit as a professional athlete, and then, but actually having to train, like, twice a day, like, eight hours a day, doing the recovery, then jumping on business calls with literally, like, the most famous CEOs that have been on your show, right? Like, advising them on their marketing strategies.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Sitting down with Sam. [laughs]
- GWGeoffrey Woo
E- yes. I mean, I, yes. I would say, like, Sam is, uh, yeah. Sam is great. Like, w- we love Sam. But I think that context switching, 'cause I think people just see, like, snapshots of Jake and it's like, okay, you just see, like, the f- full 360. It's, like, man, cool. Like, I'm inspired by the level of context switching and the flow to be able to move with all these different circles.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Yeah?
- JPJake Paul
Yeah. No. Thank you for the nice words. [laughs]
- HSHarry Stebbings
[laughs]
- GWGeoffrey Woo
[laughs]
- JPJake Paul
Um, yeah. The, I think a lot of people don't know shit about me, which is, like, e- even if they watch everything or know, like, you still haven't met me or spent time. I think the, the number one thing that people say to me after, like, meeting for the first time is, "You're a lot different than I expected." [laughs]
- GWGeoffrey Woo
[laughs]
- JPJake Paul
I'm like, "Oh, so you thought I was a dickhead and fucking retard? Like, I don't know. My bad, bro."
- HSHarry Stebbings
[laughs]
- JPJake Paul
Like, cool. [laughs]
- HSHarry Stebbings
Y- you mentioned getting to spend a couple of hours with the president. Um, this was from friends of yours, not from me, so I'm, I'm not stoking any flames here. They are. Um, would you like to run for
- 35:36 – 37:00
Would Jake Run for President?
- HSHarry Stebbings
office or be involved in politics a lot more?
- JPJake Paul
Um, I wouldn't like to [laughs] but I feel like it, it, it could be needed at some point. I, I've always said, like, it... Jeff was actually the first one that mentioned it, like, six years ago or so. He was like, "You're, you're gonna, like, be the president, and, like, you should run for president." And I was like, [laughs] "Ha ha ha ha." And then it, like, slowly became, um, less of a joke and, like, people actually, other people started saying it to me, and then I get, I just hang out with Trump and, like, the v- I go on stage and do a speech, uh, off of, off the top, and he, the first thing he says to me on stage when I turn around is, "Oh, you're gonna run for office someday." And, like, then I, we go backstage and he's like, "Y- you should be the president." And then he, like, endorses me. But to answer the question, it's like I would only wanna do it if I was, A, the best person for the job, and if, B, there was, like, someone like, uh, Kamala Harris, like, running that, like, could have the potential to, like, ruin the United States and I would have to, like, go and oppose them and-Yeah, save the country, but I don't really wanna sign up for that workload if I don't have to, and if there's someone better to do it. And that's, that's how I feel about it.
- HSHarry Stebbings
With-- I, I'm in the UK and I'm in London. Uh, do you think Trump's doing a good job? Iran is, is a challenging situation he's got himself into.
- 37:00 – 44:35
Jake on Trump "That's My F***ing President"
- HSHarry Stebbings
De-globalization is a thing. Do you think he's doing a good job?
- JPJake Paul
Yes, I do. I, I think he, um, is arguably one of the best presidents the United States has had in, in this term. There, there's so much propaganda and, and things, but at the end of the day, um, he's, he's doing an incredible job and there's always gonna be criticisms. I mean, that's why, again, like I wouldn't maybe wanna sign up for the job because no matter what you do, people are gonna think they have a better answer. But we're not in the rooms. I believe in him as a person and as a human being. And so I'm not gonna maybe agree with everything he says or does and, you know, like I think he just m- like said, "I'm glad someone died" on the internet. Like, I don't agree with that. But overall, that's my fucking president and I'm gonna back him and support him and say that he's doing a good job a hundred percent.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Like to me, I think he's like a very founder president, right? Like I think he's-- he actually makes bold decisions and tries to ch- like mold the future. Where I think a lot of politicians are just very much dictated by the flows of polling. There's a boldness and a leadership quality there that I think in a very globally challenging, interesting time, it's... Like do, do you want your leaders to have boldness to take some risks or do you have someone that's more passive? And I think that's like, uh, something that from a venture side, like you want to back founders and leaders that will be able to take risk, right? Like venture capital is a risk-taking business. Um, and I think there's like a very unique time in history of are we gonna have a multipolar world? Are we gonna have US hegemony continue for another, you know, century? I, I think it's an open question, right? So then it's like which founder, which CEO do you want to be in that seat? And I think you'd-- it's-- you'd likely w- it, again, from a venture capital hat on, you'd want to bet and put your money or your support to the, to a bold, fearless leader.
- JPJake Paul
Yeah, and like you don't want a career politician running a business. The, the first startup in America was America [laughs] . Like it was-- it's, it's a fucking business and so you don't want a career politician running things and I think it's a, a very difficult position to be in and I think no matter what you do as president f- any of the terms, any of the US presidents, like there's always gonna be the 50 to 60% of people that are like, "No, they suck. You suck. Da, da. We-- that shouldn't have done that. I have a better solution." Like okay buddy, then go fucking do it. Then become president and fucking fix it. So that's my, that's my thing on it.
- HSHarry Stebbings
We released a show today with Matt Steckman who's the president and CBO of Anduril, and I asked him, "Do you feel any moral responsibility for how your products are used in conflict zones like Iran?" And he said, "No, we support democratically elected governments only. So they are voted for by the people and what they choose we support because they are democratically elected." Do you agree with that as a stance? And like if you think about Anthropic disagreeing with like Department of War and the Pentagon, do you think that's wrong?
- GWGeoffrey Woo
I, I mean I think, I think generally I think where does that nexus of decision-making go? Right? It-- like do you want an unelected tech executive making that call or your democratically elected representative making that call? So I think from a fundamental like culture governance perspective, I, I like I wouldn't like to have the ego to be like, "Hey, I'm smarter than the president to make a game time nuclear decision." Like I feel like it's very egocentric to say that, "Hey, I built the tech, I get to make the decision for the rest of the world." If we believe in democracy, which we do, then it's like okay then the democratically elected leader gets that call. To me it's if you wanna talk about taking that like war-making decisions away from our government, o-okay, like we could have some weird techno-fascist thing too. Like, uh, I, I it's a competition of ideas. Maybe like maybe that does happen in other countries and other regimes. Like I think there's like a breed of arrogance around like, "Hey, I think I'm just smarter than everybody else, so I get to make the call." Versus like we're in a society with like a lot of constituents and we vote for someone to make that call.
- JPJake Paul
Yes, and I, a-and I think it like the human evolution is inevitable, so like we're going to these systems anyway. So if Anduril wasn't gonna build it, then okay is someone who is evil i-in the wrong hands in another country gonna build it and then we don't have it? So it's needed, but I think also their mission is to make things safer for humans. That's like the autonomous side of it. And so if something needs to be done then, then yeah maybe less people will actually die because of their technology.
- HSHarry Stebbings
We mentioned Sam, we mentioned OpenAI. They very, um, I don't know how to say it, maybe opportunistically took advantage of it and, uh, swept in and provided a solution. You're the master of content, you're the master of storytelling. He then got heat for it. What would your advice be to him in terms of the messaging, the comms around the heat that he gets for jumping in?
- JPJake Paul
Who gives a fuck? [laughs]
- HSHarry Stebbings
[laughs]
- JPJake Paul
Like seriously.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Seriously.
- JPJake Paul
Yeah, who gives a fuck? Someone has to do it and rather to be in the rooms and, and a part of that thing than, than out of it.So I mean, at the end of the day, I, I don't have [laughs] advice for him. Like, he- he's doing what he thinks is best in his decision-making, um, and there's gonna be repercussions. And again, I think we live in a society where no matter, like, what someone does, they're gonna be hated or loved, or hated or loved, or hated or loved. Um, so at the end of the day, you just have to make decisions and, and march on.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
My sense is that the tech leaders are becoming more and more politicians because they have a bigger, bigger impact on culture, on society. Like Sam is in that position. He has a lot of information. He's tr- trying to make his best decision. My only secondary comment on it would be show the human side of himself more, right? 'Cause I think that, I think President Trump does a very good job of showing like the raw human. And I think President Obama also I think had that similar quality on, on the other side of just showing like a, a humanity to his decision-making.
- HSHarry Stebbings
You said about kind of showing your humanity. You got me in trouble this weekend because I said, again, to my girlfriend, Jake Paul, and honestly I was expecting maybe, I don't know, a mixed, [laughs] mixed response. And she's like, "Oh my God, did you see the video of him supporting his girlfriend at the Olympics? Oh my God. Would you do that for me? Would you have done that?"
- JPJake Paul
[laughs]
- HSHarry Stebbings
I was like, "No fucking way. I would be in the office. Are you kidding?" She's like, "I knew it. I knew it. See, why can't you be more like him?"
- JPJake Paul
[laughs]
- GWGeoffrey Woo
[laughs]
- HSHarry Stebbings
And I'm like, "For fuck's sake, I'm joking." You know, for backtrack. You know when you joke and it's like kind of not funny and you're like, "Oh, fuck."
- JPJake Paul
[laughs]
- GWGeoffrey Woo
[laughs]
- HSHarry Stebbings
Um, it is something I wanted to touch on, which is like, I think relationships are really an art. What is your biggest advice on how to have an amazing relationship, but also crush it in, fuck, where do we start?
- 44:35 – 45:37
How to Have a Great Relationship While Crushing It in Business
- HSHarry Stebbings
Content, boxing, investing. What's your advice?
- JPJake Paul
I think in relationship, it's communication, and I think the, you know, you should always in the relationship pr- try to be the 60%. Like if it's 60/40, y- you and your partner should be both be fighting to be the 60%. And I think that, and be there for each other and do more and, and, and love more and support more. And like, we should always be kind of in a competition of like who, who massaged who today? Who gave the first... Who wrote the love letter? Like if, if, if my fiance writes me a love letter, I'm like, "I'm gonna write a better one back to you." So, and then she'll write another... Like, so I think that friendly competition in a [laughs] relationship is good, and communication. Letting them see you, like every side of you and fully who you are, um, I think that's very, very important from like early on. Like tell them everything from like day one. I think that builds the, the trust and the foundation.
- 45:37 – 54:59
Jake on Mental Health, Ayahuasca & Managing His Mind
- HSHarry Stebbings
Is there a side of you that you're most scared to share?
- JPJake Paul
I'm not really afraid. I think I've talked a lot about my, my struggles more so in the past because I was, I was struggl- struggling more, um, when I was younger in like childhood fame, living in Los Angeles, being sur- surrounded by the wrong people. But I do think like dealing with mental health, like my mind can become a like crowded and dirty and stressful place, and it's a practice, uh, every day to, to manage it. And I think that's where I've like fallen in love with breathwork and me- meditation and spiritual journeys with ayahuasca, toad, mushrooms, all of these things to learn more about myself and, and my mind. Um, and so I would say like mental health is always something that can fluctuate for me, and it's something that like personally I have to actively manage.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Do you know when it's going down?
- JPJake Paul
Yeah. I, I don't know. It's like, uh, it's always different. That's the weird part about it, I think. It's like not something you can like fully grasp. Um, and sometimes you like don't know until you're like in the thick of it and you're like, "Oh shit, I haven't been taking care of myself mentally."
- HSHarry Stebbings
Do, do you hate... Sorry, I'm, I'm an addict in every way. I don't drink anymore 'cause [laughs] did that. I'm very grateful 'cause it makes me good at what I do. I'm so addicted to what I do. Are you happy or sad to be an addict?
- JPJake Paul
I think being addicted to, to working and like constantly doing something, but like I do wish sometimes I like think about what it would be like to like feel normal, where like I don't have to constantly be like progressing and doing things, but I don't know. Like this is my body, this is my brain, this is like my destiny, this is who I am. So like I'm not, I'm, I'm very happy about that, but it is a double-edged sword sometimes. Like you think I'm addicted to work is what you're saying?
- HSHarry Stebbings
Well, I mean, with the greatest of respects, I think it takes one to know one, and I think to compete-
- JPJake Paul
[laughs] No, yeah, yeah. [laughs]
- HSHarry Stebbings
I think, I think to compete at the level that you do as quickly as you do in sport, and to fight Anthony Joshua, Mike Tyson, with the little ramp time you have, you have to be bluntly psychopathic to get there that fast in a brilliant way. I'm saying this in a good way.
- JPJake Paul
Yeah, no.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Uh, to do the multitude of things that you do at the quality that you do, you have to be an addict. A- again, I think we kind of mis- mis- uh, characterize addiction bad, and it's not always bad. It can be-
- JPJake Paul
Yeah
- HSHarry Stebbings
... I think every top, top athlete is an addict. You have to be to be the best.
- JPJake Paul
Would agree 1,000%.
- HSHarry Stebbings
When you think about your training-
- JPJake Paul
I just think it's interesting the way you describe it as like an a- like, but, but you're right, yeah, 100%. It's-
- HSHarry Stebbings
When you think about your training, what was nuts about your training?
- JPJake Paul
I mean, it's just so intense and demanding and-
- HSHarry Stebbings
What's the most demanding?
- JPJake Paul
I would say the track work, like sprints at the track is just brutal, and my coach just makes me run and run and run and run. And like my heart feels like it's gonna pound out of my chest, and your body like has like a central nervous system... reaction because of how hard you're pushing yourself, and it's, like, very uncomfortable. And then just the day in and day out, and then you just, like, get lost in counting down the days until the fight, and you're just like, the monotony of it, I think, can be very demanding and, and difficult and dry and boring and lonely. I mean, they say boxing is the, the loneliest sport for a reason. Um, and, and it's, it's, it's very true. You're in there by your- yourself.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Are you thinking when you're in it?
- JPJake Paul
Yeah, but I mean, I guess it becomes, like, a sort of flow state. Uh, but, but yeah, it's, it's like a super high, fast-paced thinking match, and I think that's where I told people, like, why I got good at boxing so fast is, like, pattern recognition. And I just think of it like recognizing patterns in the person that I'm fighting and then being able to expose it and doing it at the right time, and it's very calculated. And I see you dropped your hand in the first round after you threw this punch. I'm gonna wait for you to do that again in two minutes and hit you with the right punch to counter that. And adding those things up over round by round and remembering everything that they're doing and their habits and all of that is, like, a just pattern recognition game, and that's why I think I got good at it is 'cause it's just my mind is better than other, probably every boxer. If I had been doing it my whole life, I'd be the, the best boxer in the world, for sure.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Who have you not fought that you'd like to fight?
- JPJake Paul
Uh, I think that the one that, like, would just be the only one that would ever come close to the Tyson numbers is, is me versus McGregor, which would be fun.
- HSHarry Stebbings
What number would you do it for?
- JPJake Paul
McGregor? Good question.
- HSHarry Stebbings
150?
- JPJake Paul
Yeah, I mean, it's at least worth that.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Yeah.
- JPJake Paul
That's like minimum probably. [laughs] Um, but that's a good number, you know? So [laughs] like-
- 54:59 – 1:03:13
Boxing, Content, or Investing: Jake's Answer on What He'd Be #1 At
- HSHarry Stebbings
content creation or at investing?
- JPJake Paul
Investing, actually, yeah.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Genuinely?
- JPJake Paul
Yeah, 100%.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Why is, why?
- JPJake Paul
It's, it's I think the something that I can do forever. Like and it's really enjoyable, and I really love like being a part of the, the cutting edge things in technology and like advancing society and human evolution, and being able to meet with the, and talk to and be friends with the smartest people in the world. I think it scratches my itch in my brain. I think like I'm, I'm sapiosexual in that sense.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
I had actually no idea what he would say, but I think, uh, uh, but I think even like content, right? Like I think all of th- these things feed into each other, right? And I think, again-
- HSHarry Stebbings
Well, they genuinely do. When he... Sorry, w- w- again, didn't mean to. But when he's crushing at boxing, when he makes better content, the investing will be easier and easier.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
100%, 100%. And I think it's okay to, just like founders are, are o- okay to say no bad customers or not tackle certain markets, I think it's okay to be like, "Hey, you, LP, you get to allocate your money where you think you can maximize returns. If you think other people will do it better, like great, let's just see the numbers in a couple years. Let's compete."
- HSHarry Stebbings
[laughs]
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Right? Like, I, I think-
- HSHarry Stebbings
I know you tweeted to one of my friends, Jason Lemkin. He's this guy
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Yeah, no, we said we're gonna have more AUM, buddy. [laughs]
- HSHarry Stebbings
[laughs] I was just like, "Whoa"
- GWGeoffrey Woo
We're coming for you, buddy.
- HSHarry Stebbings
We're all fighting. [laughs]
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Yeah.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Um, we're gonna do a quick fire. Jake, you said about making room for things in life. Would you like kids?
- JPJake Paul
Yeah, that's like my number one goal, honestly. Uh, that's what I think life's all about. I, I can't wait to be a father. Create my little best friends that I get to hang out with every day.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Geoffrey, what's the best performing investment so far by multiple?
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Um, I think a couple from our, our fund, uh, you mentioned Rahul Aerodome. That was a 10X in 18 months. Rahul had that stock in the Flock Safety, which is crushing. Rahul's now the chief strategy officer there. Um, Poly Market is a good early one, but just our incubations, right? Like we're at the ground floor. Those like BetterW crushing it. Um-
- HSHarry Stebbings
If you can crush Better with a high ownership, that's where you really make a lot of fucking money.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Yeah.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Yeah.
- GWGeoffrey Woo
Yeah, no, like it's exciting 'cause I think with, you know, the expansion of the prediction markets and all of this stuff, I think we're excited about the opportunity ahead. But yeah. But even on, just on the personal side was a angel invest in Ramp, so that's like a, at a 50 mil entry value, so that's like a, whatever, 300X on a, on a personal side.
- HSHarry Stebbings
Uh, Jake, Jake, dinner's on him.
- JPJake Paul
Yeah. [laughs]
- GWGeoffrey Woo
[laughs]
- HSHarry Stebbings
Dude, that's so good. That's fucking A. [laughs]
- GWGeoffrey Woo
[laughs]
Episode duration: 1:03:24
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