Michael Eisenberg and Adi Levanon: Israeli Resilience in Crisis | E1072

1. 0:00 – 0:45

   Intro

   1. HSHarry Stebbings0:00

      I'm so grateful to you both for joining me today. I think this is probably one of the most important shows that I've ever done. So first, thank you so much for joining me today.

   2. MEMichael Eisenberg0:08

      Thanks for having us, Harry.

   3. ALAdi Levanon0:10

      Thank you so much.

   4. HSHarry Stebbings0:10

      Now, honestly, I'd just love to start, we said before we don't really have, uh, a structure to this. I just wanna start by asking both of you, are your families safe? And I just wanna check in there first.

   5. MEMichael Eisenberg0:22

      You know, my family is safe. I have two sons who've been called up to reserve duty. My son-in-law was called up yesterday. Actually, my third son, who is not on the frontline, was called up also yesterday. And, uh, I have a son-in-law who was wounded in a previous, uh, set of battles, who's gone to do res- uh, kind of, guard duty down in the south of Israel. We're all, thank God, fine. Unfortunately, as you know, Harry, I lost a cousin of mine in

2. 0:45 – 2:30

   Personal Ties and Emotional Impact

   1. MEMichael Eisenberg0:45

      battle on the first day when he, he went in to protect a town called Kfar Aza, uh, which is a border town, uh, where, uh, tens of people were massacred, and he was literally the first, uh, Jeep in. Uh, and he was unfortunately killed, really in the first hour of battle. We had the funeral last night.

   2. HSHarry Stebbings1:03

      I'm so sorry for that, Michael.

   3. MEMichael Eisenberg1:05

      Yeah.

   4. HSHarry Stebbings1:05

      Um, Adi?

   5. ALAdi Levanon1:07

      Um, Michael, of course, I'm, my huge condolences to you and your family, and I'm glad everybody's safe. We are, we are safe, thank God. It's, it's, uh, I, I feel also like difficulty even answering that question because, uh, w- I live in Tel Aviv. I don't, uh, I'm not anywhere near the south. My family is fine. We left Tel Aviv because honestly, I have, I have a soon-to-be four-year-old and the idea of having her hear the sirens was just too much. You know, I, we've tried to make a game out of it, like most families, like, "Let's go downstairs," and there's a siren again, and we try to explain, but it's difficult, so we left. We're more north. Everybody's fine, everybody's safe, but, um, I think the honest answer is we're safe, but we're not okay.

   6. HSHarry Stebbings1:46

      I'm gonna ask a series of questions, which are probably quite basic, but I think there's a lot of things that people don't know, and they look in. Where are we now? Because we see news and we see continued attacks on both sides, and I'm just looking, going, "I don't actually really know where we are now." Can we just lay the, the f- the kind of groundwork of where are we today?

   7. ALAdi Levanon2:06

      Well, first, I don't like doing numbers, but I think it's important to understand the, the size and the magnitude of what's happening here. So at this point, the equivalent, uh, in size of this massacre that's being done obviously is about, you know, over 25,000 Americans, which is eight times 9/11. Just so you understand where we are at, what we've seen, the numbers of, of casualties at this point. Um, and that doesn't

3. 2:30 – 6:50

   Current State of Affairs in Israel

   1. ALAdi Levanon2:30

      include those injured.

   2. MEMichael Eisenberg2:30

      On a proportional basis, yeah.

   3. ALAdi Levanon2:32

      Yes, just proportional. Not saying 25,000 Israelis. I'm saying we're over, uh, 1,100, I think more at this point.

   4. MEMichael Eisenberg2:38

      So it's 1,400. We're still n- 900 missing, yeah.

   5. ALAdi Levanon2:41

      Thank you. Um, so those are just the numbers. Um, where we're at now, um, it's a continued, I mean, this is, you know, it was called a war and it is a war. We're continuously, uh, hearing explosions and bombs. We continuously, uh, hear helicopters and fighter, uh, planes flying south. Potentially also, you know, other side, uh, north also to make sure that we're protected on all sides. It's very dif- very difficult. Uh, we basically have a country that is right now, uh, everybody's at- trying to help the forefront. Everybody's trying to help what's going on down south. So whether it's, um, you know, there's soldiers that are just in the army, but there's also now being a very large amount of reserves, uh, people in reserves called. So you have families that everybody said bye to probably to somebody in their family that went to reserves. And I think it's just really important to understand, uh, you know, what's happening from a, a social stance. Really, we're in a place right now where every Israeli knows somebody who has either been murdered, kidnapped, or injured. And I, I think that's something that really needs to sink in. That's the size of Israel. That's the one degree of separation that is very unique to Israel. So there's like the numbers and there's the, where we are, like, physically and what we're doing in action, but I think also psychologically, there's a lot, um, that needs to be understood in how difficult this is.

   6. MEMichael Eisenberg4:02

      If I could just jump in, Harry, also. Y- it's important to know that there's well over 100 Americans, Europeans, and Israelis in Hamas captivity. They, they were kidnapped from the music festival, and they're still being held hostage by ISIS Hamas. You know, their families don't know where they are. I, I chair an organization here called, uh, Nevo Network, where, uh, immigrants to Israel, uh, who've come from all over the world, uh, have created a professional network to get ahead in tech. Um, the woman who runs it with me and started with me, her name is Abby On. She has, uh, family who lived near the Gaza border, the Calderon family. All five members were taken, uh, captive and kidnapped by Hamas, and are still there in, in Gaza. Um, there's Norwegians there, there's Germans there, it appears. There's Americans there. There's somewhere between 15 to 20 American citizens there at a minimum. Um, and there's a number of still missing and unidentified, uh, Americans, Europeans, and many Israelis, of course, also. And the situation's very fluid, and, uh, to Adi's point, uh, the whole country basically is called up on reserve duty, so that's all the able-bodied men, uh, and even women. Uh, I have, uh-

   7. HSHarry Stebbings5:16

      Quoting-

   8. MEMichael Eisenberg5:16

      ... one of my best friends since childhood. He has, uh, four sons and one daughter, and he has, uh, all four boys were called up and one of his son's wife, who is in the Israeli Air Force, was called up too. And so, that's what you're looking at here.

   9. HSHarry Stebbings5:29

      Can I just ask, when you say called up, what does being called up and being in reserve mean? Does it mean literally kind of ready and waiting to go at home? Does it mean they have to leave home? And can you talk about your son? I hope it's okay for me to ask, but you mentioned your son before we started, and...

   10. MEMichael Eisenberg5:43

       So on Saturday, uh, m- morning in Jerusalem at eight something, the air raid sirens went off. Uh, we all went back and turned on our phones because as a Sabbath observer-

   11. HSHarry Stebbings5:52

       Mm-hmm.

   12. MEMichael Eisenberg5:53

       ... I actually don't keep my phone on, uh, on the Sabbath. But we went home and turned on our phones, and our boys, uh, one who's in, uh, standing military service and another one who's in reserve duty got immediate, uh, messages.... I want to be on standby, and want to get his gear together and come. Um, and so, uh, we drove my, the younger one, that morning, uh, to meet his unit and to meet the buses, and he was taken, uh, to the border. Actually, he was first taken north to get his gear, and then taken to the border, uh, to go there, all his fighting gear. And then my second son, another son, uh, was, was called up later in the day. Uh, he drove from here to his home, because he doesn't live at home. He said goodbye to his pregnant wife, uh, gave her a hug, then went to his base to meet his unit, uh, his reserve unit, um, and they've been getting all their gear together. And that's, that's what it means to go to reserve duty. And I was, I was

4. 6:50 – 10:00

   Understanding Military Reserves

   1. MEMichael Eisenberg6:50

      down South yesterday for a bunch of hours and I saw people I actually haven't seen, who I s- generally see a lot, I haven't seen in a long time, and we're all giving each other big, smelly hugs. I get to shower 'cause I'm at home, but these guys have been on the front lines for days. And when I was down there, just so you understand, there was another infiltration, uh, in the South from, from Hamas, and it's the reserve soldiers who were guarding the border at that time who took out the terrorist, um, nearby where I was.

   2. HSHarry Stebbings7:17

      Can I ask, Michael, I, I sit here listening to you honestly as a, you know, 27-year-old who, you know, would, would be called up to any form of reserve, and I'd be terrified if I'm honest. And I'm kind of got goosebumps listening to you. H- how, how is your son feeling? And, uh, you know, I know we're talking about Israeli resilience, but this is something that, uh, is so alien to me listening. How, how is he and how are his friends responding?

   3. MEMichael Eisenberg7:44

      It's not easy. And, uh, it's not easy for them, it's really not easy for their wives and loved ones, um, because as I mentioned, I had, I have a cousin who was killed. We're a tight family. We're a large family, but a very tight family, and, you know, that's affected everyone. How is it for them? I think, you know, they're concerned. They're concerned about the safety of the country, and at the same time, as a country, we took a gut punch, a really, really severe gut punch, punch to the face. We're wounded, but not down. And I think when I ran into the soldiers at the funeral last night, some of which are also relatives, they said, "We're gonna get these guys, and we have to be determined to get them." And they're fighting like lions against these terrorists. There were 1,500-plus terrorists that infiltrated Israel, heavily armed. And just to give you an example of what happened, after shooting up the cars of the people at the music festival, they threw a grenade into each of the cars to blow the people up and burn the bodies. I know it's hard to hear this and it's very graphic, but it needs to be said. And when our kids look at this, and unfortunately they've seen it because we have social media today, they are horrified, but really, really, really determined and resilient to beat back evil. And I think an important thing to say, you know, both Adina and I work in the tech industry here, and you and I, we know, we're always talking about tech and, and all the amazing things that technology does. And I think that's part of this story, by the way, which is that Israel and Israelis use tech and social media to improve humanity, to improve the world. Hamas is using social media to spread fear and destruction, calling people or showing people as slaughtered animals. This is not okay. And our kids, to answer your question, our kids get that. No one wants to go to war. Nobody wants to go to war. None of them do. Think my son wanted to say goodbye to his pregnant wife? No one does. But you gotta do what you gotta do, and in this world, we gotta do what we gotta do. There's no choice. It comes... First, they came, like you said before, before we got on the air, and then they came for me. That's these guys, and they'll do it in London.

   4. HSHarry Stebbings9:49

      The thing that I'm struck with when I listen to you is, so... And again, I, I said I would ask probably some basic questions. So what happens from here? You know, uh, we see flights of, you know, incredibly

5. 10:00 – 15:00

   Depictions and Realities of the Conflict

   1. HSHarry Stebbings10:00

      brave Israeli men going back to fight for Israel. We hear your son, you know, being called up. What, what happens from there?

   2. MEMichael Eisenberg10:07

      You know, to the point you made right now, like, where in the world, um, when war breaks out can you not get a seat on a plane to go back to the country at war? Because all the reservists want to come home. It's incredible. I saw-

   3. HSHarry Stebbings10:21

      2:30 AM, the scenes of, like, cheering crowds-

   4. ALAdi Levanon10:24

      Yeah.

   5. HSHarry Stebbings10:24

      ... welcoming home Isr- young Israeli-

   6. ALAdi Levanon10:26

      But, Harry-

   7. HSHarry Stebbings10:26

      ... men coming home. It was, um-

   8. ALAdi Levanon10:27

      You have to understand what's going on in the backend. The work that's being done, actually by far by the tech community, to be honest, is, is insa- it's just unbelievable, the amount of people that are working on the backend to make sure that flights are coming out from New York, from LA, from all these different locations, with the necessary equipment, making sure that all those seats that Michael mentioned are filled. Whoever wants to come back, whoever can come back, whoever can be in reserves and should be in reserves, the work is being done on all fronts. It's men and definitely women too. There's many women in reserves, many women called up. I personally don't know if we know the answer yet to what now because we're still so in it. We all have portfolio companies here. A lot of US funds have portfolio companies here. Within what my... You know, I'm a, I'm a new fund, relatively new fund, although I've been investing for years, but I have four portfolio companies. My newest portfolio company, the co-founder, uh, was called to reserves when he recognized and, that there's not enough equipment for him and his team. The whole company now that I invested in, now they have 50 people there, uh, and the CEO, who I admire completely beyond what he's done in life, but what he's doing now, he is on the phone making... Uh, constantly buying equipment, getting... You know, talking to the people that are buying, purchasing sh- I know Michael's involved in this too. There's, uh, I mean, it's endless, and I've been talking to him, talking to people in the units that need the equipment, figuring out exactly what they need, getting things to the families, making sure... And I text. I mean, it's hard to explain what's going on behind the scenes. And that to me is, you know, I don't know if that's the what's next, but the what now is so incredibly admirable. When we say, you know, Israeli founders have resilience and tenacity, it's, it's just the Israeli people. The DNA here is like nothing I have...... ever seen. Uh, I'm American born. My parents Israeli. My parents met in the army. My dad was a, a pilot and two of his brothers are pilots. Um, what's going on though on the ground is beyond. And I, it's, um, I think we'll get to what's next very soon.

   9. MEMichael Eisenberg12:31

      So I gave an interview to the Wall Street Journal yesterday. I got a note for, I didn't see it come out then. One of my LPs sent it to me. What I said there was that in, in, in unstable times, you want to invest in the most resilient people. And what the Israeli tech community is showing now is just how resilient they are, you know, companies like monday.com and Wix. One of my founders, Ami Daniel, I kid you not, as soon as this happened on Saturday morning, he set up a "forward command center" in which he literally directed the rescuers, literally directed them to where the people were. M- they've already, you know, systematized this using tech. They've had coders working nonstop since Saturday to get this put together and it's now been integrated in the whole home front command of the country, how we rescue people, and he rescued hundreds and hundreds of people using the tech community and the resources. Boy, they're literally gonna create a full, uh, length action movie out of what these tech community people have done. You know, Josh Kopelman wrote yesterday on Twitter, "Uh, your morals matter more than your metrics." You know, Josh Kopelman of First Round, who we all know and admire, I've known him for 25 plus years. I think we're the same age. Uh, both old. And, uh- 28.

   10. HSHarry Stebbings13:37

       (laughs)

   11. ALAdi Levanon13:38

       (laughs)

   12. MEMichael Eisenberg13:38

       (laughs) And, and you know, your morals matter more than your metrics for sure. And what we choose to prioritize at different times is what matters most. And, you know, employees and I think customers and investors see this and that's why if you ask me what comes next on the on, on the battlefield, I don't know.

   13. ALAdi Levanon13:56

       Yeah.

   14. MEMichael Eisenberg13:56

       If you ask me what comes next in the next chapter in the state of Israel, I think I do know, and the Israeli tech community, and that is much more investment is gonna flow here because people want to invest in resilient societies in the 21st century as it's more unsure, because people want to invest in the most creative, fast-moving people on the planet. And this has taken it up another notch. It was already there, but this has taken it up another notch entirely.

   15. HSHarry Stebbings14:19

       I have two, uh, kind of founders who have teams in Israel and, and both of them said, "A third of our team from, you know, the R&D team has now been called up." And then another said, you know, "Many of our, you know, sales reps have been called up." And I said, "Well, what, what happens then?" And so when you suddenly have, you know, 25% or 33% of your team called up to reserve, just practically speaking, and I don't mean it callously in any way, but what happens to companies in those situations? (laughs)

   16. ALAdi Levanon14:47

       I can tell you what's happening (clears throat) right now. There is a list going on, active list, of 400 plus volunteers that want to work, that can be helpful to startups. Whatever they need,

6. 15:00 – 24:00

   Economic and Startup Impact in Israel

   1. ALAdi Levanon15:00

      whatever's possible.

   2. HSHarry Stebbings15:01

      Mm-hmm.

   3. ALAdi Levanon15:01

      And this is something that's going on behind, again, Israeli resilience, how we're coming together, apropos what, you know, what Michael said, you know. We're, the tech, tech, the, I think we're gonna be even more united as we always are when there are things like this. Even though this massacre is, I mean, this is, this is far worse than anything we've ever seen, we're just getting more united and helping each other. And like I said, it's ongoing. Um, so from what I've seen from my, you know, portfolio companies, one female CEO, she has three kids. Her husband is in reserves, but she's the CEO of the company and she's still working. Her co-founder, he just had a baby recently. They're working through all this madness too with having kids at home. You know, being called to reserves, it sounds just like soldiers and, but there's like the other side of things where it's like there's a whole group of female VCs in Israel. It's a whole WhatsApp group. You know, there's the global, uh, women in VC group that Jessica Peltz founded with, um, Sutiann. I forgot her last name right now, but we have that here in Israel too. I have never seen that amount of back and forth movement. "What do you need? What do you need? How can I help? What are you doing?" What, I, I mean, it's just unbelievable. And all these women (laughs) have kids at home because there's no school. My daughter is in nursery. Her, she has a teacher who's, who's a male and he was called to reserves. So, you know, it's just, uh, yeah, it's a lot that's happening.

   4. MEMichael Eisenberg16:17

      Harry, let, let me add to that one second. So I have a CEO who wasn't called to reserve duty. Um, and so he took a couple of guys who were not gonna be called to reserve duty 'cause they're older. Uh, some of them went to New York. They s- distributed them throughout the country, also some of them for resilience, uh, and redundancy. We have another company that has a couple of older kind of long time engineers at the company and, uh, we flew two of them to Athens actually to make sure that there was full business continuity there and it's all working. You want to keep most of the people here obviously because people's families need them. And, and like, like Adi said earlier, no- nobody in this country doesn't know somebody who was affected by this massacre. Everybody knows somebody. And in many cases, everyone has a family member. You know, as just an example of that, by the way, uh, before coming back to the resilience part of what do you do at a company, Eyal Waldman, as you know, Harry interviewed me on my podcast. I think you were like number nine in, uh, in season one. But Eyal Waldman, the founder and CEO of Mellanox was, was number 10. He was the last interview in the, in the, in the first season of my podcast. Eyal Waldman's company, Mellanox was purchased by NVIDIA, and that's really the backbone that enables NVIDIA to scale, uh, for AI. Uh, tragically, his daughter and her boyfriend were murdered by Hamas, ISIS. Um, the funeral is actually in a couple hours. Eyal was involved and has been involved for 10, 15 years in employing Palestinians and giving them, you know, upskilling and, and, uh, better incomes and better lives. And he took the, you know, the same tragedy that so many of them, we all know them. And the tech community is so tight here. We all know each other. You see, you know. We talked yesterday about doing this and we could have had 15 people and we said, "All right, let's do it, let's do Adi." She's an up-and-coming VC. And, uh, and we all know each other. I, I'm going to, I'm going to three funerals of tech people in the next 24 h- I'm sorry, three condolence calls of tech people who've lost children in the next 24 hours. Yizhar Shai who was a partner at Canaan Partners.... and then a minister in the government and a longtime, uh, venture capitalist. Mark Zearing, who is a venture capitalist also lost a son, and Eyal Waldman now lost a daughter. We all know people here. It's a tight-knit community. It's a family. And that's why you asked before about reserve day, you know, from Hadid's perspective, my kids are her kids. I- I'm, I'm putting words in her mouth, but I'm sure she'd say that.

   5. ALAdi Levanon18:34

      Oh, no, you... I mean, the shared pain is, um... It's inherent, so yes.

   6. HSHarry Stebbings18:39

      Can I ask, w- w- with everything that you said there in terms of, I mean, just the unbelievably immense challenges and, and, uh, life-altering moments that we're going through now, is one wo- I- I'm sorry again for the base questions, is one working? Like does one invest?

   7. ALAdi Levanon18:56

      (laughs)

   8. HSHarry Stebbings18:56

      Like i- it almost feels, it almost feels transactional to invest. Do you know what I mean? But then the world can't stop.

   9. ALAdi Levanon19:02

      We talked about it last night. I don't know when we were talking yesterday.

   10. HSHarry Stebbings19:04

       Yeah.

   11. ALAdi Levanon19:04

       Was it 1:00 AM, Michael? Uh, I... You know, it's... So-

   12. HSHarry Stebbings19:07

       Yeah.

   13. ALAdi Levanon19:08

       ... I'm, I have a far less experience than Michael. I'm working, I'm functioning. I, I have a fund, but I haven't... I don't know if I'm allowed to say it, but I have not yet closed the fund, but we're almost there. 76% of the fund committed. Done a few investments, but like I should be fundraising right now. I was supposed to be in San Francisco. Today's Thursday, I was supposed to be in San Francisco already now and be there for two and a half weeks. I, you know, I said goodbye to my... I said to my daughter, "I'm flying. I'm getting on a plane. My parents are coming to help out." Like this was supposed to be two and a half weeks road show, fundraising, Money20/20 in Vegas. I can't. I have not. Uh, I'm doing my best and I've obviously spoken to my LPs and I've spoken to my, um, portfolio companies. I got introduced to an LP yesterday. I can't even... I don't even know how to do that right now. Um, it's not because I don't care about the fund. There's... I care about it immensely. But right now, as we said, it's family. This is family. Uh, my, my arm hurts because I've just been... And I, I've been on the phone constantly messaging, connecting, moving. Uh, it's a lot of stress. So as much as I am still doing due diligence calls, uh, I, I told them before we got on, "Guys, I'm not okay. I'm sure you're not okay either." I think everybody's doing our... You know, we're doing our best. But to work in this situation is just not... I, I don't think it's ex- it's, it's expected. Um, I think next week might feel different. I'm praying and hoping it will be, but in... During these times, we are all... It's incredible. Like we said, all hands on deck. There's no other way to express it. Um, and I don't expect... Uh, you know, I, I reached out to my portfolio. "What do you need? How can I help you?" It's not about work right now.

   14. MEMichael Eisenberg20:44

       And so Harry, may- may- maybe I'll a- add to that. You wanna ask a question, Harry, or if you want me to add to that-

   15. HSHarry Stebbings20:49

       No, no. Y- y- you add to that, Rock, please.

   16. MEMichael Eisenberg20:51

       So, you know, you, you still need to keep an economy running. Uh, before I come to tech, there aren't enough workers to actually supply the supermarkets, um, and stock the shelves 'cause so many people are called up to reserve duty. So my 17-year-old nephew has a WhatsApp group of 2,000 16 and 17 year olds who are going to supermarkets to help stock shelves, going to warehouses to help out and distributing food and oth- and, and other things. So like that's going on too in addition to what I did describe in the tech community, 'cause you gotta keep an economy going. Now over to tech, we actually did a partner's meeting yesterday. See we could. Edin my partner wasn't there because he was working on scaling the technology for the rescue efforts.

   17. ALAdi Levanon21:29

       He's doing a great job.

   18. MEMichael Eisenberg21:30

       Yeah. We wanted to put together shared resources for how our portfolio companies could operate over the coming weeks in the most effective way, uh, which we did before I got called emergency down, down south. So I left in the middle of the meeting. But here's the really crazy part. Let me tell you what happened at the partner's meeting, Harry. There's an investment that I've been working on, uh, for a long time. The closing's tomorrow, and we be- we're gonna issue a capital call. The CEO is in reserves. He's one of the first people called up, and I called him up and I called his two co-founders. I spoke to him after I spoke to you last night at 1:00 AM, and I said, "The money's coming, guys." They're working non-stop, by the way. By the way, what I'm investing in actually is related to a lot of uncertainty. It's... I would call it right on mission, but let's just say customer meetings have been canceled, uh, for the most part or moved to Zoom.

   19. ALAdi Levanon22:17

       Right.

   20. MEMichael Eisenberg22:17

       Um, about 25% of that company is on reserve duty. Uh, but the round is closing. I have another funny story. I had to do a meeting this week. You know, just things you gotta do. Uh, a deal I did not long ago, we put some of the money in, but we were waiting for a tax ruling because of a strange tax issue from the government. Now, there's nobody working in the government on anything having to do with tax rulings right now. We couldn't get it, so I called the former tax commissioner. I said, "I need your help to get this done because my entrepreneur is f- freaking out." And he said, "You must be kidding." I said, "No, he's got salaries to pay. He's got... We gotta figure this out because people need to get paid." Then, so we did. And that's Israel, right? So the former tax commissioner called up the tax people and said, "You need to finish this 'cause people's salaries need to get paid." And so it's done. By the way, if it wasn't wartime, that probably would take another three weeks, but-

   21. ALAdi Levanon23:04

       (laughs) A lot more, Michael.

   22. MEMichael Eisenberg23:04

       ... now that it's wartime, it got done.

   23. ALAdi Levanon23:06

       (laughs) A lot more.

   24. MEMichael Eisenberg23:08

       Yeah, a lot more. We gotta keep working. We've gotta keep, we gotta keep the economy... It's hard. It's brutal.

   25. ALAdi Levanon23:13

       It's very hard.

   26. MEMichael Eisenberg23:13

       And none of us are sleeping, I promise you. Nobody's sleeping. I'm exhausted, but invigorated. We're g- we're gonna beat this. And we're gonna come back and this is gonna become a garden of Eden for technology and humanity and civic resilience and how the world becomes a much better place, a garden of Eden. That's what it's gonna become. And it's gonna be hard before it's better. I always wanna say that. Unfortunately, I say this with, with tremendous pain, I think it's gonna be worse before it gets better. But I think that's important to know.

   27. ALAdi Levanon23:44

       Yes.

   28. MEMichael Eisenberg23:45

       You know, all of us are just links in the chain. That's the, you know, way the world works. Ecclesiastes said it best. We're all links in the chain and we all wanna make the world better for my children and grandchildren. My grandkids, by the way, just turned up. I was a minute late for the podcast 'cause my grandkids just turned up, they wanna play in the yard.

7. 24:00 – 32:20

   Global Community's Response to the Crisis

   1. MEMichael Eisenberg24:00

      And, uh, that's also part of this, is that Hadid's little daughter, my grandkids and my kids... By the way, I have only women in my house except for my one younger son because all their husbands are called up. I have my, my daughter's sister-in-Law.... is, uh, is living with us because her husband was called up. And so, that's fine, and we're all working. My daughter's at a startup. She's working from here while juggling her three kids 'cause her husband's protecting a village down south. We gotta work.

   2. HSHarry Stebbings24:29

      Has the response from the global community been what you expected? Is there anything that you would like to see that you haven't seen? Again, I- I admitted this before and I- I don't know where this is, but obviously I'm heartbroken, devastated. But I just feel as someone in London who's never been to Israel and who's not Jewish and doesn't know a Palestinian, it- it almost felt wrong for me to comment. You know, as we said about the Niemöller, you know, quote. Uh, i- i- is the response what you thought, and is there anything else that could be done?

   3. MEMichael Eisenberg24:56

      Yeah, so maybe I'm- I'm gonna address this for a second. I think the response from the political leadership, uh, of the UK, of France, of Germany, of Austria, of the United States in particular, has been stunning, incredible. Of the tech leadership, of Satya Nadella, of Sundar at Google, of Zuck, has been astounding and has been correct and forceful in condemning, uh, the animalistic barbarian behavior of Hamas and the terror that they've wrought. Incredible. Most of the citizens of the United States, uh, I think have been there. There's been some big fouls out of Harvard and Stanford, uh, and a few other places. I- I'd say that the European community, you know, the- the- the kind of progressive, woke, anti-Semitic left has taken over a lot of American universities, and they don't like Jews, and that's just the truth. In Europe, I think the same, uh, has been true, which is for the most part it's been support. But I got a call last night, it's about to go up, uh, on my Twitter feed as soon as we're done here, from a very senior political figure in Europe. He called me right before I got on the phone with the D last night. He says, "I hope it's not too late, but I wanna call you." He said, "The enemies of good people, uh, which is the Iranians and the supporters of a Hamas ISIS and the supporters of Hezbollah, are working overtime in Europe to try to claim that the images of the beheaded babies are false. They're working overtime in Europe to try to get the press to stop covering it and to turn the tide on the media. You need to get to work here." So what I'm saying is to any person who's decent, and even if you're not Jewish, never been to Israel, you just love liberty, freedom, good people, technology and innovation, we cannot let our guard down. There are still very evil people in this world, very evil people. We like to look the other way. We wanna see ourselves in 2023? Can't be. It can't be, but it is.

   4. ALAdi Levanon27:00

      It is.

   5. MEMichael Eisenberg27:00

      There are people. And so, Harry, what, w- you know, what- what can people do? They need to speak up. You can't say, "It's not me." You can't say, "I'm not involved," because it's- it's a global problem. I'm telling you, the Niemeyer quote is correct. Then they came for me. And so we need people, particularly in Europe, in continental Europe and in the UK, to speak up. By the way, for what it's worth, there've been a number of anti-Semitic attacks in London over the last few days. You know, this must be the only people in the world, the Jews, who where, after they get 1,300 people killed that they need to put extra security on their synagogues and community centers. David Marcus, by the way, tweeted that, because people come out to try to hunt them down in London and in San Francisco and in New Jersey.

   6. HSHarry Stebbings27:47

      And I saw in Sydney, the "Gas the Jews".

   7. MEMichael Eisenberg27:49

      Yeah.

   8. HSHarry Stebbings27:50

      Um, with the signs.

   9. MEMichael Eisenberg27:50

      In Sydney, where these enablers come out to the Sydney Opera House and say, "Gas the Jews." So we need everybody to speak up, and we need the tech community to speak up. By the way, I just wanna say something also on this- on this front. I have gotten incredible, but I mean, incredible support from people in the United Arab Emirates, members of the Abraham Accords, people reaching out directly. I've gotten incredible support from Muslims in the tech community. Incredible. And we just have to call on the tech community, who listen to your podcast, and decent people, to speak up, and we can't be silent. No one can be silent anymore. It's over. There was a thought experiment once- once run that said the following. "If we took down the Gaza border fence and let the Israelis into Gaza, what do you think would happen?" And the answer was, "There'd probably be more peace and prosperity." And they asked, "Here's another thought experiment. If we took down the fence from Gaza and let the Hamas come into Israel, what would happen?" And people kind of, you know, said, "I'm not sure." Now we know. When the border fence came down, they slaughtered people. This is no longer a thought experiment, it's a reality. And so people need to speak up about that.

   10. ALAdi Levanon28:58

       No, I just wanted to add, I mean, everything Michael said, I'm completely feel the same. I do wanna point out though, that I think for the first time, at least in a l- I think ever, I've actually felt more support than, for Israel than I've ever seen. It's not enough. There's- there's a lot of two-sided, let's make it nuanced, um, a lot of things that I think that's where the- the- the issue of putting first morality is really important, and fighting against terrorism and hate is more important. It's really, really, really crucial, um-... to continue supporting and, and really being behind those that are opening up publicly. Because I think for such a long time, there's been this ongoing fear. We've seen it from people on social media and influencers and very famous people that are, have a fear of speaking up. They put up a post and immediately put it down. And from what I've seen and, and I really wanna actually say the positive 'cause I think it's so important, there's some people speaking that are... and, and posting, uh, and individuals that I, I've, I've personally reached out to each one of them on Twitter and thanked them. What I... And then what I've noticed from that is they... I don't think it's just me by thanking them, but maybe the fact that they've realized that what they're doing, which is, which is considered brave. It is, it, it's an insane... It's insane to say that, but it's brave to speak up against hate and murdering and, and the, the atrocities which are true. I mean, there's videos that Hamas has posted. The fact that people are even trying to say that this is not... I've seen it with my own eyes. I've seen horrible, horrible videos. Michael mentioned some. It's worse. It's the, it's the most horrible things you can imagine. I actually have seen a lot of love and a lot of, of, of great support online. There is now, um, a, a wonderful, uh, supportive, um, letter being posted, being, you know, signed by the... I think now there's 150 different venture capital funds globally that have signed on from, you know, AVC to Upfront to Bain to all these wonderful, you know, Lightspeed, all these wonderful, wonderful VC funds globally, um, that are showing their support. Um, and a lot of what, you know, Michael mentioned before, the VC community I think recognizes that Israel is a huge, huge part of what tech and entrepreneurship is, you know. This is, this is why we invest in people and companies to change the world for the better. And a lot of that comes from, from Israelis, wherever they are in the world, um, but a lot obviously from here. And so that has just been overwhelming and beautiful, um, but we need a lot more of that support. Remember, there are, I think, maybe I'm getting this wrong, I think two billion Muslims in the world, and there's only 14 million Jews. We will never win that numbers game. But if you keep in mind, Harry, what we said before that this is a, this is a global thing, this is Jewish hate, but unfortunately then they came for us is, is a... something that really needs to be in everybody's, back of everybody's mind. We need that help.

   11. HSHarry Stebbings31:45

       Can I ask something kind of c- harder questions in the way that like, you know, I think people have been like, "And that's why you never take Saudi money," and we've seen a lot of kind of victory all against like Saudi. I'm sorry for the naive question. Is it like all Saudi? Is there parts of Saudi that have been funding Hamas and should be condemned for atrocious acts and some that are just not involved at all? Help me understand that.

   12. MEMichael Eisenberg32:12

       I don't have a view on the Saudis, to be perfectly candid. Um, I don't know enough about it. I do have a view on the Qataris. You'll notice, by the way,

8. 32:20 – 36:10

   Changing Perspectives and Support for Israel

   1. MEMichael Eisenberg32:20

      that all of the major sports leagues in America spoke up against this, but FIFA didn't, and that's where the World Cup was last time in Qatar. Now, Qatar have been notorious funders and enablers of Hamas.

   2. ALAdi Levanon32:31

      Hamas. Yeah.

   3. MEMichael Eisenberg32:31

      I'm not an expert on this. I just wanna say that upfront.

   4. ALAdi Levanon32:34

      I don't have an answer on that either. I think it's, it's far beyond-

   5. MEMichael Eisenberg32:37

      Yeah.

   6. ALAdi Levanon32:37

      ... of what, what we would be able to know or... The funding trails are not something that we know.

   7. HSHarry Stebbings32:42

      Now, we also mentioned some of the institutions that have been, um, criticized for their responses. In particular, what was so wrong do you think about their responses and, and why do you think they were lambasted in the way that they were?

   8. MEMichael Eisenberg32:54

      I don't know if you saw this, but Mark Rowan wrote a... wrote yesterday that he's calling on Penn to fire two people, otherwise he's telling people to hold their checkbooks. This is not a political issue. People can have different opinions on the politics. Has Palestinian and Israeli policy been correct or incorrect? We can all have debates about that. I'm not sure I know what the answer is, to be candid. We cannot have debates on barbarism. We cannot have debates on animalistic behavior, and we can't have nuance on it. When you see, for argument's sake, Black Lives Matter, uh, the Harvard, various 70 Harvard, uh, organizations, two, uh, leading administrators at Penn come out and almost justify, and by the way, in case of Black Lives Matter, cheer on Hamas, ISIS. You just have to say no. And this is not political. This is 100% good and evil, moral and immoral. The equivocation shown by these universities is just disgusting. You probably saw Sarah Tavel, graduate of Harvard, an incredible investor, uh, at my former firm, Benchmark, just how disgusted she was with Harvard. And Larry Summers, how disgusted he was with Harvard. This should be a wake-up call. By the way, we've talked about it before, Harry. You're, you're a big advocate, by the way, as am I, for not sending kids to college, it's a waste of time and money. I think it's worse than that. You send kids to these places, they are brainwashed with immorality. That's what they're brainwashed with in Harvard University. Immorality. We need to wake up. These places have become pits, sewage pits of immoral behavior.

   9. ALAdi Levanon34:31

      I think what's really important in, in regards to the universities, and I've been, for better or worse, I mean, I, I, I think it's important to speak up and I'm glad that I have the ability to do so. I don't have millions of followers, but still, I know that it's important. When it comes to what's happening in universities, people don't realize that it's not about, "Oh, they weren't even the ones that were..." You know, they didn't even know that they would... that they were gonna post this. "We're just in the Middle East group. We didn't know that they were gonna post..." The whole idea behind Never Again, it was not about Jews not letting this happen again. Never Again was also to make sure that people will never again stand idle to anything like this. You cannot, anywhere else in the world, know about hate and let it spread. If you see it, if you're aware of it, you are responsible to stop it. That is the immorality that we're fighting against. We are a democratic country. We want peace. Many of the Palestinians, unfortunately not enough, but many of them do want peace. We want to live side by side, and with each other we want good lives. All of us do. In the end of the day, every mother wants her children to thrive and to have a good life.... that's, that's just human. And so if you're out there posting things online and saying, "Oh, but I didn't know," and, "This isn't nice," and, "Ugh, you shouldn't be shaming people," actions have consequences. And if you're out there and you're part of these groups or you're aware of them and you're not doing anything to stop them, you're just as bad as the problem itself. And I think that's something that's really important to convey when it comes to these universities or just in general. If you're afraid to post anything against- or pro-Israel,

9. 36:10 – 40:43

   Geopolitical Implications and Views

   1. ALAdi Levanon36:10

      that's fine. I'm sorry that you don't see the reason to, to be pro-Israel, and that's okay. But I think it's really crucial to stand up and say, "I am against this. This is horrific. I'm afraid. I don't want this to be on any b- of my people in my community, and what can I do to stop it?"

   2. HSHarry Stebbings36:27

      Can I ask you, are there any other big misconceptions that you've seen flying around or seen circulated on social media you think that many people have who aren't on the ground, who aren't aware in Israel, seeing what's happening? Are there any big misconceptions or things that people should and need to know?

   3. MEMichael Eisenberg36:43

      I'll add one, which is related to what Adi said. You can't look the other way. It's not just on the never again. You can't look the other way from atrocities, and we need to take people at their word when they, when they say... when Iran says they're coming to destroy Israel, take them at the word. When Hamas says, "We're coming to destroy the Jewish people," we need to take them at their word. And across Europe and the United States and, and Australia, when people say that they're gonna do something, we shouldn't just say, "Hey, they're misguided, they don't get it. Oh, they don't mean it." Turns out that people mean what they say, and I think that's a... that's a really important lesson. You know, one of the things about being a, a venture capitalist is, is this question I always ask entrepreneurs is, "What do you know that nobody else knows?" And I wanna know that the entrepreneur has a unique insight, says something forcefully and directly that I can take him at his word at, that I can trust him. And that's how, you know, our business is done. For whatever reason, we seem to have a blind spot when people do this with hate and, and politics, because we... You know, in the 24/7 news media cycle, because we don't trust politicians and institutions anymore, we say, "Oh, it's no big deal." It turns out, it's a big deal. Believe them. In the same way we wanna believe entrepreneurs, we need to believe the ambassadors and the committers of hate, and, and we need to do that. Uh, and I wanna add one other thing. You know, I'm, I'm thinking about it now. You know, you said you're 27, you know, you can't imagine what it'd be. So I have, uh, my two youngest children are 16 and 14. This is really not easy for them, certainly for my youngest. My 16-year-old got up ready and raring this morning. She has for the last five days, and she's off to her youth group. There's... Youth groups are a big deal in Israel, uh, for teenagers and, and kids. And they set up a, uh, center there where all the people from the neighborhood in Jerusalem are bringing food goods and whatever for the families that have been displaced, and, uh, they set up this center to, to do that. And this is going on all over the country. It's not just my kids. And I think, you know, one misconception is, "Oh, this is like a political thing." No, it's everybody. There's only a little less than 10 million people in this country and everybody, man, woman, children, is mobilized to help. You know, the humanitarian effort here is massive, um, to do this. And so, anybody who wants to help on the humanitarian effort, there's actually a lot to do for the people whose lives have been ripped apart by, by people killed and kidnapped. The hostages are still there, and we should say a prayer for all of them and, uh, and to support the work that the teenagers are doing to help out. It's just stunning. Uh, by the way, that's a better... Apropos college, that's a better lesson than any high school education will give you.

   4. HSHarry Stebbings39:13

      I wouldn't know. I wasn't there long enough, Michael. (laughs)

   5. ALAdi Levanon39:17

      (laughs)

   6. MEMichael Eisenberg39:17

      (laughs)

   7. HSHarry Stebbings39:17

      Um, A- A- Adi, what about you?

   8. ALAdi Levanon39:18

      Unfortunately, I think there's many misconceptions, to be honest, the good and bad of the social media. I mean, it's kind of what we said before. I think the biggest misconception is that, you know, we really, really, really want to, to... we wanna live a, a moral and peaceful life. Everything that is being done has always been, uh, with the highest regard to human life. Uh, that's always been... That's just how we live. That's how we're... That's, that's, that's a lot of what Judaism is. I mean, the most... You know, s- there's this saying, I forgot... M- Michael will know this much better than me, but this saying that says, you know, somebody went to a rabbi. Was it Rambam? I don't remember. And he said, you know, "Can you explain the, the Torah in, in a sentence?" And he said, "Love others as you love yourself." ואהבת לרעך כמוך. And I... That i- is the most important thing about Judaism. That's how I was raised, to love others as you love yourself, and, and that's how we live our life and that's how we function. It's not fluffy fairy tales. This is how we function and this is how we are also, as a country. The military is created so that we will defend ourselves. When my parents were in the army, they did not in their... they did not imag- There's this saying that goes in Israel that, you know, "When you grow up, you won't go to the army." And this has been said for generations. And unfortunately, I don't know, I hope that my daughter will not need to serve in the army, but we have the army to defend ourselves, and, um, we're doing everything we can to be humane and to care for each other.

10. 40:43 – 46:14

    Institutional Reactions and Scandals

    1. ALAdi Levanon40:43

       And like Michael said, any support is, is the biggest thing in the world. And yeah, I think the biggest misconception, which I think is still not resonating, is that this is not a Israel problem. This is not an Israel-Palestinian conflict. This is a Jewish problem. And Hamas has said it very clearly, like Michael said, listen to their words, "We're starting with the Jews, but we'll move on to the Christians." Listen to them and, um, be awake and be concerned and be active.

    2. HSHarry Stebbings41:09

       You mentioned that your parents meeting in the army, I do kind of wanna just end on a, a note of almost resilience in, in some way. I think it'd be nice to. And you mentioned to me a story that I didn't know before, which was about a couple, um, uh, kind of coming together at these times. Can you share that story about this couple, um, and what happened?

    3. MEMichael Eisenberg41:27

       There was a couple that was meant to get married yesterday and the, the future husband, the fiance, was called to reserve duty, uh, on the Gaza border. They decided not to cancel the wedding. Uh, the wedding was held on the Gaza border. He was in his army uniform with his gear. She was in a white dress. The-... groom's father is a rabbi, and they perform the ceremony surrounded by all the soldiers who were there dancing in uniform. They carry the bride and the groom on their shoulders. There's incredible pictures of the dancing there, literally on, on the border among, you know, the jeeps, the tanks, the soldiers, the guns. Uh, they got married. They tied the knot and, and got married. There, by the way, on, on the first day of the war, actually no of the guy, I, I don't know him, father left on Saturday. In the Jewish tradition, we circumcise, uh, newborn males at eight days. His son's circumcision, called the bris, uh, was supposed to be Sunday. He wasn't gonna make it. He joined by Zoom from the border of Gaza, uh, to celebrate, and there was giant singing, uh, there too, and that's a happy time. The circumcision's a happy time. And so we're trying as much as possible, uh, to have as many, uh, happy occasions. I met somebody, uh, who was also called, a woman who was called to reserve duty. Her wedding is supposed to be today actually. Her fiance is, uh, is not around either. She's also in reserve duty. I told her, uh, "You still wanna get married on Thursday?" She says, "I can't." She's in a place you can't get married. And, uh, I said, uh, "Hey, look, when it's all done, you're welcome to come to my backyard and house and, and whatever it is and, and we'll put the ceremony together for you." And that's what it's about. You know, we just want... We wanna live, wanna live in happiness, wanna marry off our children, have children and grandchildren, and, and get going. And even in these hard times, this is going on and we should celebrate it. We're... The resilience.

    4. HSHarry Stebbings43:17

       Do you, do you know what struck me when I listened to you both today, is like you said it's not a Is- You said it's not an Israel-Palestine thing. You said it's actually a Jewish thing, and I kind of disagree with you, 'cause what you just said there, Michael, is like getting married, having kids, enjoying love, enjoying life. It- it- it's a human problem.

    5. MEMichael Eisenberg43:35

       It's a human thing.

    6. HSHarry Stebbings43:36

       Uh, it's everything that I want for my life. (laughs) So-

    7. MEMichael Eisenberg43:39

       I'm waiting for you to get married and have kids, Harry. If you need to come here, we'll get your wedding going. Even during the war. All right? We'll get you going. It, you're right. It's, it's a human aspiration, except there are some barbarians that don't believe in this, and they need to be eradicated. And that's, that's our job right now, and the job of our children is to go eradicate them so that we can have more weddings, more children, more grandchildren, more happy times, more innovation, more technology. And that's where we're headed.

    8. HSHarry Stebbings44:05

       Now, is there anything that I haven't covered or that we should discuss that we should before we wrap up?

    9. MEMichael Eisenberg44:11

       I, I just want to thank, uh, you, Harry. Uh, I know this is out of your swim lane generally, and, and, and not obvious, and you have an incredible media platform that you've built, you know, since your mother's kitchen. And I think, by the way, uh, one of the reasons that you haven't said it but you come to this is because of your mum, uh, and everything she's been through in her fight for life, and your fight for life alongside of her. And so you're, you're a ray of light, uh, in this world, and I just wanna thank you for that and opening up your platform to us, and I'd like to thank all your listeners also for their support. Just thank the people of light in the world.

    10. HSHarry Stebbings44:44

        Can I be honest, Michael? I feel, I feel incredibly guilty. I feel guilty for, for being quiet for the last few days when I listen to you honesty. And I, I listen and I'm like, "How could I not have done, and how could I be ignorant to think it's like I don't have a right because it's not me going through it?" And although well-intentioned, how wrong of me?

    11. ALAdi Levanon45:06

        Yeah, but Harry, a lot of people like you don't, don't know what they don't know. You know, I reached out to you on Twitter. Michael obviously knows you. I mean, I think the fact that you're here and you're doing this is, is a big part of it, and so many people are... Really feel, um, the support and the care by you doing this, and I think it means, it means everything, so-

    12. MEMichael Eisenberg45:24

        When this is over, Harry, the thing, the thing we need to fix most after the wedding is getting you to Israel for a visit and making a- another investment here. That's all. Adi and I are gonna invest with you in a company here and get you here for, for a board meeting. Or, by the way, if it's not a board meeting, it'll be a tour in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Sabb- Sabbath at my house.

    13. HSHarry Stebbings45:42

        Uh, just fit in my wedding at the same time-

    14. ALAdi Levanon45:43

        (laughs)

    15. MEMichael Eisenberg45:43

        (laughs)

    16. HSHarry Stebbings45:43

        ... and we can really just make it a productive trip, Michael. Board meeting, investment, wedding. Fuck it, let's do a honeymoon while we're there. Yeah. Great.

    17. ALAdi Levanon45:50

        There you go. It's mazel all around.

    18. MEMichael Eisenberg45:51

        The most efficient guy on the planet. You book it.

    19. ALAdi Levanon45:53

        Exactly.

    20. HSHarry Stebbings45:54

        Uh, listen, I cannot thank you enough, both of you, for taking the time, especially now. Uh, and Michael, it goes without saying, you've been a mentor, friend. I treasure our friendship. Adi, this has been fantastic to have the chance to meet you. Obviously I've heard many things, and I really appreciate you taking the time.

    21. ALAdi Levanon46:10

        Thank you so much.

    22. MEMichael Eisenberg46:11

        Thanks. Thanks, Harry. Thank you. God bless you.

Episode duration: 46:14