Ring CEO Jamie Siminoff: The $1BN Amazon Acquisition; How Richard Branson Invested | 20VC #984

1. 0:00 – 1:04

   Intro

   1. JSJamie Siminoff0:00

      I went up to his house in San Francisco and set up a Ring on his house really early. I was trying to, like, get influencers on Ring, so I was like, literally, I was flying around and setting them up on people's homes. And he went to Branson's Island for, like, something, and they're having dinner, and you know, Richard's like, you know, "What are people seeing? What's cool?" And he said, "Look at this. I answered my door from the beach today and told, like, the UPS person where to put the package," and, like, showed him the video. And Richard's like, "Oh, I want to give this to my friends for the holidays." So, I get this email, like, at first I'm like, "Oh, great, his friend Richard must give 20 Rings." You know, it's like, here I'm trying to, like, I'm so swamped, and then I look and I'm like, "Oh, wow." Like, this email address looks like it's not, like, Richard. It's Richard.

   2. HSHarry Stebbings0:43

      Jamie, I am so excited for this. I'd obviously heard so many great things from Dave Clark, obviously, uh, most prominently, but thank you so much for joining me today, Jamie.

   3. JSJamie Siminoff0:52

      Uh, thank you for having me, Harry.

   4. HSHarry Stebbings0:54

      Not at all. But I wanted to start with some context, and so, what was the... (sighs) Um, I can go in a number of different ways here. I'm gonna go in the first way, and then we'll go off schedule a little

2. 1:04 – 2:23

   Ring’s Founding Story

   1. HSHarry Stebbings1:04

      bit later. What was the a-ha moment for you when you thought, "You know what? I'm gonna revolutionize the doorbell"? Can you just take me to that moment, Jamie?

   2. JSJamie Siminoff1:12

      I mean, (sighs) really, it was probably when Amazon bought it in 2018. (laughs)

   3. HSHarry Stebbings1:16

      Okay.

   4. JSJamie Siminoff1:16

      But if you wanna try to go a little earlier, 'cause it was a, it was a, it was a slow burn a-ha. You know, I, I start, I, I, I hacked this thing up. I was in my garage building other stuff, and I couldn't hear, I literally couldn't hear the doorbell. I had just gotten an iPhone, and it was one of those, I went online and looked to see... I, I wanted to get, like, I didn't even think I invented it. I wanted to get a WiFi doorbell, and it didn't exist, and so I was like, "Oh, let me, um, kinda hack something up." So, I literally just, like, hacked this thing up, and then my wife said, "This makes me feel safer at home." And I was like, that was like, part of the a-ha, and then it just, but it was like, it was an iterative a-ha. It wasn't just like a, you know, "Wow, I invented this," you know, the band plays and-

   5. HSHarry Stebbings2:00

      (laughs)

   6. JSJamie Siminoff2:01

      ... everything's great.

   7. HSHarry Stebbings2:02

      The fireworks went off.

   8. JSJamie Siminoff2:03

      Yeah, fireworks were going off, and like, you know, like-

   9. HSHarry Stebbings2:06

      (laughs)

   10. JSJamie Siminoff2:06

       ... they, they put me on a chair and like, you know, took me around the room and sang, like, no.

   11. HSHarry Stebbings2:10

       (laughs)

   12. JSJamie Siminoff2:11

       No, none of that happened for a very long time. (laughs)

   13. HSHarry Stebbings2:13

       No Bar Mitzvah style. Oh, what a shame.

   14. JSJamie Siminoff2:16

       Nope. You're uh-

   15. HSHarry Stebbings2:18

       (laughs) Um, I, I do wanna ask you, though, uh, we, we spoke about this, um, but I think it's actually really important.

3. 2:23 – 5:41

   Who is Jamie Siminoff?

   1. HSHarry Stebbings2:23

      I find people are reflections of their histories. You love the show, and you've had it before. What do you think you're running from, Jamie?

   2. JSJamie Siminoff2:31

      I, I, you know, I, I think I'm running to help people. Like, I, I love using my mind. I think my, my happiest thing is when I can use my mind to help people. And so, I'm probably running from, you know, where I was, you know, as a kid I was definitely like, d- didn't have, I was not the coolest person. And I'll just, uh, I'll just say, I was not the coolest person in school. Like, I did not have... You know, I had definitely my share of incidents where like, you know, looking back, like, I would have liked to have been the cooler person. So, maybe there's something about that that made me turn to that. But I think the inventor in me, I, I just see problems everywhere, and I wanna solve them, and probably my, like, the, the hardest thing I had to learn was you can't solve every problem for everyone-

   3. HSHarry Stebbings3:18

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JSJamie Siminoff3:18

      ... because then you do nothing. And so, it was, like, how to focus that energy was, was what took me a while to learn and, and took me till I got older, sort of, to, to sort of harness.

   5. HSHarry Stebbings3:29

      I feel so sorry for Melissa and your team, 'cause we did so much work on this. But I'm just totally freewheeling. (laughs) Uh, you mentioned, like, not being, like, uh, necessarily cool as a kid. I wasn't either, and it, I'm a people pleaser as a result. I desperately seek other people's approval-

   6. JSJamie Siminoff3:44

      That's okay.

   7. HSHarry Stebbings3:44

      ... and always try and please other people. Sucks when you're a manager and a CEO, by the way. (laughs)

   8. JSJamie Siminoff3:48

      Yeah.

   9. HSHarry Stebbings3:48

      Not a good trade. Are you a people pleaser as a result? And I guess, what advice would you have for me, always looking for people's affirmation?

   10. JSJamie Siminoff3:56

       You know, I, I, I, I think I, I certainly do... I probably, I always say I don't have an ego, but I certainly like people seeing me be successful. Um, you know, that was, that was certainly a way to, I would say, you know, looking back, it's not terrible that people had to send me emails saying like, "Wow, I can't believe where you've gotten to." Like, that's, that's... And again, I don't think it's the reason you should do it, but it, it doesn't hurt.

   11. HSHarry Stebbings4:19

       Yeah.

   12. JSJamie Siminoff4:19

       Um, but I think also, you know, like, I, I, you know, a lot of entrepreneurship is, like, reality distortion. You have to believe in something that's so much bigger and crazier than what can actually be accomplished that you... I think when you're a kid and you're in that position, like, one thing I learned is I moved schools because I was, like, literally, like, ostracized from my s- my high school, and I, like, moved to... My parents were, like, very nice 'cause they were middle class, and I went to the private school, and, like, they paid for me, you know, to go, and it was like... It was a little bit of a hardship. And so... But I, like, when I got there, I was just like, "I'm gonna be the cool kid now." And like, I just made up this, like, this sort of, like, this life, 'cause by the way, screw it, like, why not? And I think that's part of entrepreneurship is, like, you're just, you gotta, like, a little bit, you gotta make it up, because when you're in your garage building a doorbell, if you really told people, like, what you were, like, what you really felt and where you were at, you probably would never make it. And so, you have to say, "Yeah, like, I'm gonna build the biggest security company ever in the history of the world." I mean, it's cr... You gotta, like, be a little crazy, so maybe, maybe that's what taught me that.

   13. HSHarry Stebbings5:23

       I, I think in terms of like, you know, bluntly people seeing you succeed, I think one moment-

   14. JSJamie Siminoff5:28

       Yeah.

   15. HSHarry Stebbings5:28

       ... in particular where I'm sure a lot of people mentioned it to you, but was when Richard Branson invested, and I heard this was a great story. I, obviously Dave prepped me well. How did Richard Branson come to invest in Ring?

4. 5:41 – 10:36

   How Richard Branson Became and Investor in Ring

   1. HSHarry Stebbings5:41

   2. JSJamie Siminoff5:41

      So, I'll give you the, like, the longer-

   3. HSHarry Stebbings5:42

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JSJamie Siminoff5:42

      ... and feel free to make it as short as you want.

   5. HSHarry Stebbings5:44

      (laughs)

   6. JSJamie Siminoff5:45

      But, um, so Richard invest- uh, uh, uh, a, a venture capitalist named Wes Chan, who was at Google Ventures, I went up to his house in San Francisco and set up a Ring on his house really early. I was trying to, like, get influencers on Ring, so I was like, literally, I was flying around and setting them up on people's homes, and he went to Branson's Island for, like, something-... and they're having dinner. And, you know, Richard's like, "You know, what are people seeing? What's cool?" And he said, "Look at this. I answered my door from the beach today and told, like, the UPS person where to put the package," and, like, showed him the video. And Richard's like, "Oh, I wanna give this to my friends for the holidays." So, I get this email, like, Wes, who I kind of knew, but, like, you know, it's like, Wes- Wes is like, "Hey, Richard Copied wants to give rings to his friends for the holidays." So, at first I'm like, "Oh, great," like, his friend Richard wants to give 20 rings. You know, it's like, here I'm trying to, like, I'm so swamped. And then I look, and I'm like, "Oh, wow." Like, this email address looks like it's not, like, Richard, it's Richard.

   7. HSHarry Stebbings6:44

      (laughs)

   8. JSJamie Siminoff6:44

      And so we started going back and forth, and I said, "It's gonna be great for your friends to get this for the holidays 'cause it actually makes their homes safer, and their neighborhoods." And Richard's like, "What do you mean?" And I, then I sent him this link. We had just had our first, like... Our mission was always to make neighborhoods safer, and we had just had our first real big, like, got a criminal in the act, like, stopped them, got... Like, the, the whole thing. So I send Richard the link, and then he, you know, immediately was like, "Wow, I, I, you know, this is amazing. I had no idea." Um, and this was, like, on a Friday. He's like, "I'm gonna have someone there this weekend," 'cause I... And then he said, "Can I invest?" I said, "Well, we're, we were kind of looking at closing a round right now. I don't want to, like, rush you." He said, "I'll have someone there this weekend." And so this poor Latif who worked for Richard in the venture group shows up on, like, Sunday, not happy. Like, you could, you could see the call of Richard being like, "Hey, Latif, it's Richard." Like, "I'm on the island and a doorbell came up, and, like, I need you to go to LA and meet with this Jamie." You know, like, like Latif's like, "Oh," like, you know, like, "my life." You know, he's like, probably like, "This is just my life."

   9. HSHarry Stebbings7:49

      And so, and so what happened? So Latif turns up and says, "Hey, we want to do the deal." Like, just take me to that moment.

   10. JSJamie Siminoff7:53

       No, he, he... Latif honestly... I, like, I love Latif, he's like one of my good friends now to this day. But Latif honestly showed up and was like, "I have to check this box for Richard. And so, like, let's do this." And so for the first, like, 15 minutes, I would say it was not the... I mean, he was very nice, but it was not like... I wouldn't say he was leaning in.

   11. HSHarry Stebbings8:11

       (laughs)

   12. JSJamie Siminoff8:11

       Two hours later, Latif said, "I'm gonna see if I can invest also in this personally."

   13. HSHarry Stebbings8:16

       I love that. That is hilarious.

   14. JSJamie Siminoff8:18

       So, so he definitely, like, he... To be fair, like, he did listen, and he, we did... You know, and, and, and from there ............................ And Richard really became one of the huge steps in the business, um, just the, like, the credibility that came with Richard coming in. And Richard said, "I'm investing because this makes neighborhoods safer." And that was like, you know, that credibility of Richard saying that really turned the whole thing.

   15. HSHarry Stebbings8:41

       Can I ask, a lot of people, um, ask, like, what really is the value of having big names like Richard? Does it really make it worthwhile? When you reflect on that, how would you answer founders who say, when you have Richard Branson, when you have, you name those kind of incredible business moguls, how would you advise them on whether it's worth taking or not?

   16. JSJamie Siminoff9:01

       I think mo- mostly people want to put a square peg in a round hole. So they, they want like, like Richard Branson invested, and they, like, step back and, like, wait for the customers to come in. And, like, that's not gonna happen. Richard Branson doing a blog post saying, "I invested in this because it makes neighborhoods safer, and I'm a missionary investor, and here's this interesting thing about this," was one of a thousand things that led to our brand being big. And, but it was, it was an important one, but it was one of a... So, like, so you had to also play this into a whole, like, you know, a, a rolling thunder of things. It, it was not just one piece, but it was an important piece. And so I think that everyone's always lo-... Everyone always asks me, like, I, I, I get introduced to someone, and they say, like, "Wh- what made Ring? Like, I'm building this product, like, what made Ring?" And I always say, "It's, it's the mission that made Ring, and e- and then the thousand things that we drove to do that." It's not... Like, there, there, there's... 'Cause there's, like, literally a thousand things they could talk about.

   17. HSHarry Stebbings9:55

       Well, everyone always wants a silver bullet. It's like, you know, hey, why, why, why do self-help books make so much fucking money?

   18. JSJamie Siminoff10:01

       Yeah.

   19. HSHarry Stebbings10:01

       It's 'cause like-

   20. JSJamie Siminoff10:01

       Yeah.

   21. HSHarry Stebbings10:01

       ... the three things to lose weight.

   22. JSJamie Siminoff10:03

       Yes. (laughs) Yeah, exactly.

   23. HSHarry Stebbings10:05

       Right? Bullshit. Um-

   24. JSJamie Siminoff10:06

       Yeah.

   25. HSHarry Stebbings10:06

       ... but my, my question to you is, like, we all want the silver bullet. And we were chatting before the show, and I instantly realized that, you know, I have a man crush on you, uh, when you said this. 'Cause I said about doing the work behind the scenes for the show and putting in the prep-

   26. JSJamie Siminoff10:20

       Yup.

   27. HSHarry Stebbings10:21

       ... time, and you said about kind of people not necessarily doing the work today. What did you mean by people not doing the work in entrepreneurship, and how do you think about that?

   28. JSJamie Siminoff10:30

       Because I, I, I think that, like, it's the silver bullet thing, it's the, like, I, I go to conferences, I n-... You know, it's like,

5. 10:36 – 13:58

   The Secret to Hiring

   1. JSJamie Siminoff10:36

      it's, it's dirt under your fingernails. Like, I want the people that are missionary, passionate, dirt under their fingernails, and realize how hard this is gonna be, and they're doing it for the right reason, which is to make an impact. That, that, the thing they have in their brain, the thing they've felt, the thing they're doing in their gut has to happen. Like, it has to. Like, it doesn't matter, it has to happen. And those are the ones that I believe always make it. And the ones that are like, "Oh, yes, I have, like, this pedigree and this resume, we hired all these great people, and we have all this great money," and it's like they don't dig down enough to get there. And that might have worked a little bit more in 2010 to '21 or '2, but the tide is out now. And if you, if- if you don't know how to drive a bulldozer yourself, like, I don't know, like, I think you're in trouble.

   2. HSHarry Stebbings11:25

      My worry, Jamie, is we haven't needed to. You know, I- I- I'm being very frank and open.

   3. JSJamie Siminoff11:29

      Yep.

   4. HSHarry Stebbings11:29

      Most of my companies still have money till mid 25. They have the same mindset as they did in the last 10 years, but they just have the wrong way to drive it out.

   5. JSJamie Siminoff11:38

      Yeah.

   6. HSHarry Stebbings11:38

      And so my question to you is, like, bluntly, what are the signs of those that have the dirt under their fingernails? For you when you're meeting founders, when you're meeting potential hires, where are you like, "This one's got it?"

   7. JSJamie Siminoff11:49

      I think you just... You know, and I, I've never been good at hiring, like, in terms of... I, I'm, I'm great at finding talent. I'm not good at, like, the, the five questions, you know, same sort of thing. Like, you know, like...

   8. HSHarry Stebbings11:58

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JSJamie Siminoff11:59

      I, I... But it's just seeing that person who... It's like fight club. Like, it's the person that you say, like, "You can't work here, sorry." And then you come the next day and they're, like, sitting at the office. Like, they're like... It's like, you want that person that just, they have to do this.Um, you know, I always say, like, we want marathoners at Ring. And to me, a marathoner is like, doing a marathon is the dumbest, it's one of the dumbest things you can do. I think I have my marathon... Yeah, that's like, my, my Boston Marathon shoes are back there from doing the Boston Marathon. Um, it's-

   10. HSHarry Stebbings12:30

       (laughs)

   11. JSJamie Siminoff12:30

       ... like, so it's the dumbest thing you can do, but I want people that do that, which is, you train for like a year in the dark. You're like, you have to get up at 3:00 AM because you do a four-hour run before work. I mean, just like, terrible. It's terrible. Then you go and do this race that no one watches, that no one, you're gonna finish 20,000ths place, like if you're a normal human, and you are so proud of yourself for it. Like, you're just so ecstatic on what you accomplished. Like, I want those people. I want the people that, that want to accomplish something not because they want that hot top accolade. They don't want to be showered with stuff. They do it because they need to do it.

   12. HSHarry Stebbings13:05

       Do you wanna hear something funny, Jamie?

   13. JSJamie Siminoff13:07

       Sure.

   14. HSHarry Stebbings13:07

       I've, I finished a marathon an hour ago. (laughs)

   15. JSJamie Siminoff13:12

       So see, like I want, I, you're, you're, you're crazy and I, I want you to work with me. Like there, like there we go.

   16. HSHarry Stebbings13:18

       (laughs)

   17. JSJamie Siminoff13:18

       Like, like ... And by the way, you, what, what place did you finish?

   18. HSHarry Stebbings13:22

       Well, I, I just did it, like, on my own in London. Like, I does-

   19. JSJamie Siminoff13:26

       How proud of you were you? Like, like, how, like, stoked were you when you did that?

   20. HSHarry Stebbings13:30

       I, I do it like twice a week, so it's like (laughs) -

   21. JSJamie Siminoff13:33

       Okay, yeah. It's like a, maybe, maybe you might be over the top, but you might be too much.

   22. HSHarry Stebbings13:36

       It's, I, I, I, I, I told you, I, the reason people invest in me-

   23. JSJamie Siminoff13:39

       Yeah.

   24. HSHarry Stebbings13:39

       ... is because obsession to the extreme is my mission.

   25. JSJamie Siminoff13:42

       Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, you might be, you might-

   26. HSHarry Stebbings13:43

       (laughs)

   27. JSJamie Siminoff13:43

       ... you might be a little far for us, but like-

   28. HSHarry Stebbings13:45

       I, I, damn, poor Dave has to put up with a lot of shit.

   29. JSJamie Siminoff13:47

       Yeah.

   30. HSHarry Stebbings13:48

       Um, I, I wanna ask you, we, we see like the, the Richard Branson moments though, and like a lot of the incredible moments, there are always near-death experiences also. Dave said that I had to ask this one.

6. 13:58 – 20:42

   Ring’s Near-Death Experience

   1. HSHarry Stebbings13:58

      What, when I say near-death experience for you with Ring, what's the one that's like, "Oh, I remember that one."

   2. JSJamie Siminoff14:04

      Oh, there's, I mean, there's this. So I, we had like four or five real like run out of money kind of times. Like even when we raised our A round, I remember I kept calling True Ventures because it was like the money was supposed to come in. I'm like, "Hey, uh, you know, just wondering, like, when the wire's coming in just so I got a plan for..." Like, we literally had like payroll on Thursday. It's like Monday, we're out of money and I, they kinda knew it, but they kinda didn't. And I'm like trying to like not scare them that we're literally out of money. And so I'm like, "You know, just they're like, "Oh, it's gonna come in Wednesday." I'm like, "That's great. Okay, cool. Thanks so much." You know, like trying to be like super calm voice, you know, like-

   3. HSHarry Stebbings14:38

      No wo- no worries if it comes in Wednesday afternoon-

   4. JSJamie Siminoff14:40

      Yeah, totally fine.

   5. HSHarry Stebbings14:41

      ... or morning, wow.

   6. JSJamie Siminoff14:42

      Wednesday's fine. Like Thursday we're bankrupt, but Wednesday's totally cool.

   7. HSHarry Stebbings14:46

      (laughs)

   8. JSJamie Siminoff14:46

      Um, the worst one though was the company is like, we're screaming. So we're growing, you know, that's very hard on cash. Like, you know, growth is an ugly thing. Um, as, as good as it is for building value, it's ugly inside. I mean, you're, you're hiring, you're thrashing, you're trying to get ahead of yourself. You have, especially in a hardware business, you have to order six to 12 months ahead. And so if you're growing hundreds of percents, like multiple factors, like I have to order... Imagine like we went three million, 30 million, 170 to almost 500. So when we went from like 170 to 500, I had to order like $500 million of inventory when we were like $100 million business. So like that's a hu- like that's an incredible risk to take. So we are in that 170 to 500. We're going into the holidays, and we have a round happening. And I get sued by someone who's very large in the business. They get an injunction against the product on me, which, you know, I, I will not comment on either way. We're, we're, the investor decides and, you know, fair is fair, that like a little too risky now. And our $100 million investment gets pulled like days, literally, I mean, we had paper do-... Everything's done. Gets pulled like days before the wire. And now instead of having 100 million of fresh capital in, we have $0, can't raise, and we're heading into the holidays. We have our inventories at the highest level. And I mean, it is like the wheels, I mean, shot off the bus. We owed, we now owed money to our factories, which we couldn't pay, which is the only way we stayed in business was basically just owing money to factories that we didn't pay. Like that's how like we... So we probably went negative 50 to 70 million at one point. Um, but that's just because we just didn't pay the factories.

   9. HSHarry Stebbings16:40

      How do you get through that, Jamie?

   10. JSJamie Siminoff16:43

       You, uh, so, so you're very stressed out. Um, and I think like I've, I've actually in, in the most extreme, I think one of my talents is like, one of my few talents, is in, when things get to the most extreme, I actually get very calm. Like, so, so I'm like not uh, calm at like a normal level, like I'm usually a little bit like passionate and whatever, but like when things go like that extreme, I'm actually like a pilot. Like, I get my checklist out. Like, the wings could be ripped off the plane and I'm like calm and like reading the checklist. So I was like, "Okay, like, we don't have money." I call the factories and said basically like, "We don't have money. You need to ship us product or else we're like gonna turn this thing off tomorrow. And like I'm, I, and I'm sorry to do this." Like, we, um, and I told the team, like we... And I, I ba- I brought everyone under the covers. Like I, I, there was no hiding anything. Like I, I brought everyone in and said like, "Here's the situation. Here's where we're at. We need to sell every fr- everything we made, we got to sell this holiday. Like, we do everything we can to sell everything we can this holiday." Like, we went... So everyone worked. Everyone came together. This is where people are always scared that when you say this, like everyone will leave your business. It's exactly the opposite. They literally are arm in arm with you. Like immediately, like everybody's just like, like no one... You know, if you think about it, it's like, it's like kind of like a war. I mean, I'm not like a veteran or anything, but like, you know, people stick together. And so especially when like there's an outside force that's coming at you. And so we went arm in arm and we freaking sold everything.... and then we settled this case, and the company was like, literally at this point, it was just, I mean, it was, we, we broke the record for QVC for the year for sales in a day, uh, 22.6 million dollars in a day. I did that, literally, I drank like 25 Red Bulls. I was on for 12 hours of TV-

   11. HSHarry Stebbings18:31

       (laughs)

   12. JSJamie Siminoff18:31

       I mean, like, I almost, I mean, like but we, like, I seriously, like we almo- like almost killed ourselves to sell ev- I mean, we just did it. And so, you know, and then we, and then what's crazy is that was, that was cr- going into the holidays of 2017. We signed the term sheet with Amazon on January 1st of 2018. So literally, like it was like a, from solving this to, to selling to Amazon was like 45 days.

   13. HSHarry Stebbings18:59

       Wow. I mean-

   14. JSJamie Siminoff19:01

       Yeah.

   15. HSHarry Stebbings19:02

       ... that, that's in- can I ask, you mentioned the scaling processes there, from three to 30, 30 to 170, 170 to 500. When I listened to that, I thought one- 30 to 170 sounds like the most difficult. It's almost like teenager to adult in transition. Which would you say, on reflection, was the most difficult transition phase?

   16. JSJamie Siminoff19:19

       I think they were, hon- honest, they're all difficult because they all, like, the it's, they all have their own issues. Like as you get bigger, this, the problem with bigger, you, you go from being like, when from three to 30, anything I could solve almost personally.

   17. HSHarry Stebbings19:34

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JSJamie Siminoff19:34

       Like if we made a mistake, like the, the, the size of the mistake was so small, like even our investors, like if I said like, "Hey, we made a million dollar mistake," they'd be like, "Uh, Jamie, you know, like a million dollar mistake, that's terrible." Like, "We'll give you another, you know, like we'll do a, a note for a million dollars." "Okay, great." You know, 30 to 170 you're sort of in there and you can kind of get people to like back you. 170 to 500 like the, they, they took away the, you know, you're on the tightrope and all of a sudden you look down and they're like pulling the mats away, like the, the, the-

   19. HSHarry Stebbings20:04

       Huh.

   20. JSJamie Siminoff20:04

       ... the safety net is being pulled away because... And when we did, like when we had that issue come up, like our investors, like we didn't h- like there was nothing they could do. Like they couldn't write 100 million dollar check into like a company that had a problem. Like they, you, you couldn't do that. So, so that was, probably as you get bigger, it does get harder because of that. Because like literally the actual net numbers are harder.

   21. HSHarry Stebbings20:26

       I think what's so fascinating is when I spoke to so many of your investors, they said one of the very iconic and kind of important things about Ring was the brand. You mentioned the 22 million dollars in sales in a day. Insane. It made me think, like what does truly great brand mean

7. 20:42 – 23:48

   What does it mean to have a great brand?

   1. HSHarry Stebbings20:42

      to you, Jamie? What, what, what does it mean to have a great brand?

   2. JSJamie Siminoff20:45

      So what it means is that I always, I always said with Ring, it's like when you walk into a store and you see our logo, you have to feel immediately like, "I know that whatever's in that box is gonna make my neighborhood safer." Like, so you need the, the brand, like as soon as you see it, you have to associate it with something that you know around that product do- so that you'll just, because that's, that's how much time you have with the customer at point of sale. Like you have like, like one second.

   3. HSHarry Stebbings21:13

      Can I ask, what, is that storytelling? What's the difference between brand and storytelling?

   4. JSJamie Siminoff21:18

      I think it's, it's authenticity. It's a, I, I think it's like literally a thou- it is like a thousand things. And I think when, no, when you have a north star, you then, everything drives to that. So it's how, like how you build the product, how you build the service, how you, "Are my emails on every box?" How you, like it's, it's like the sound of it, the like, it's like literally like everything you do, because it's, it's like not that easy to build a brand. Like if, if it was, like there'd be lots of brands. And I think, you know, iconic brands come initially from authenticity though too. Like you have to be, like the team has to be authentic behind it. You can't just make up a brand. Like I, I don't, I mean, maybe you can, but I, I don't, I don't know how you do it.

   5. HSHarry Stebbings21:57

      Uh, many D2C erectile dysfunction companies in New York would disagree you can't just make up a brand. The agency seems to do very well over the last few years. Uh, you, but you said about authenticity. You put your number, uh, not your number, your email on the side of the box, Jamie. Why? (laughs)

   6. JSJamie Siminoff22:12

      Well, the, the-

   7. HSHarry Stebbings22:12

      It seems like a... (laughs)

   8. JSJamie Siminoff22:13

      Originally I was shipping like, you know, 500 of them. It just felt like put your email on there so people get ahold of you. Um, it was almost like a customer service thing. And then as we grew, every, it's funny, every, at every level of growth, someone would come in and say, "You have to stop doing this. It's not go- it's not going to scale." And I say the putting the email on the box is the one thing that actually did scale at Ring. And the reason it did is because one is it made the team, the te- what my team knows, like, uh, thousands and thousands of people at Ring, and everyone knows that if someone emails me, I will respond to it and I will act on it. So if you're in customer service, you certainly know that like you wanna deliver the very best on every call because you, literally the customer has access to me. Now, because of that, it doesn't get that abused, which is surprising. And I, I think it's because like the team does such a good job of being accessible, of be- of, of helping customers, of being customer first, because they know that this like system sort of will work. And then you'll also get ground truth. I think one of the biggest issues in business, this goes back to that dirt under the fingernails, and like we very quickly get into our ivory tower at our big conference rooms and we have big meetings and we go over survey results and we're very proud of ourselves, but we don't get ground truth. And like, I think listening to ground truth directly is one of the most valuable things you can do to continue to grow. And the other CEO that I know who did it was jeff@amazon.com.

   9. HSHarry Stebbings23:43

      Uh, yeah, sorry, too interesting. I was gonna ask something else, but fuck it, you mislead me. Ground truth.

8. 23:48 – 25:19

   What is “ground truth”?

   1. HSHarry Stebbings23:48

      What, what is ground truth, and how do you engage with it without also being a perfectionist or micromanaging?

   2. JSJamie Siminoff23:55

      And that's like, again, these are all the balances, like never, you know, going too extreme. But ground truth, it's like listening, like tr- like, and again, you don't want to take like one email from one customer, like you're not gonna just go off and, and go cra- like, "Oh, we're gonna build a new product," like someone told me. But when you listen to these things, it's, it's kind of like the Henry Ford. They always say if pe- you know, if Henry Ford had asked people what they want, they would have said faster horses.... but if you, like, listen to people and you listen and you listen, all of our features and all of our stuff comes from just, like, listening to that. Like, one of the best examples is our car camera. I didn't want to do a car camera because I was like, "Our- our mission is about making neighborhoods safer." But I kept hearing people talk about issues with their cars in their neighborhoods and what that was, and like, over time, I'm like, "Oh wow, not only am I gonna build a car camera, I'm gonna build something that's a different car camera, and that's the best one that's ever been built." And we were able to do that by getting the ground truth. If we had been doing surveys, and this is what, I hate surveys by the way. I like, literally, I, in my gut, I hate them.

   3. HSHarry Stebbings24:54

      (laughs)

   4. JSJamie Siminoff24:54

      It's like, because they don't tell you anything. They're like, "95% of people are happy. 87%..." Like, who gives a shit?

   5. HSHarry Stebbings25:02

      (laughs) Well, o- okay, okay. So, uh, uh, you're just leading me so astray. Why do you, why do you hate surveys? So, th- they're not useful, so what should we do instead? What's a better way to get more actionable-

   6. JSJamie Siminoff25:11

      Listen to your fucking customers.

   7. HSHarry Stebbings25:14

      How? Like Twitter? Like, I'm just-

   8. JSJamie Siminoff25:16

      Be accessible. Like, yes, like Twitter, like, like,

9. 25:19 – 27:17

   How to Take Customer Feedback

   1. JSJamie Siminoff25:19

      stop saying that it's not scalable. Like, everybody says it's not scalable to listen to your customers. It is totally, like, that's the one thing you have, like, the only job you have all day is to listen to your customers. Like, everything else is like superfluous. It's like, it's just like an add-on, it's gravy on the fricking turkey.

   2. HSHarry Stebbings25:34

      To what extent do you let customers guide your product roadmap? "Hey, we need this, we need that." How do you determine between, "Hey, there's enough weight that we should do car cams"?

   3. JSJamie Siminoff25:43

      So, this is a great... So, so mission, so if- if you dig, mission allows you to stay focused. Because one of the problems is like, you don't want to build everything. Like, I'm not trying to build, um, I don't know, like, like whatever, some other product that like, it just sells, like a TV. I don't know. Like, I mean, maybe Amazon does, but like, I'm talking about like The Ring. So, staying super focused on what we do. Our mission is to make neighborhoods safer. So, everything now is like, now you have a mission, everyone's focused on it, like our teams are focused on it, and now, like listen to customers. Li- li- listen to what they're really saying, and then you, when- when you understand your technology, your capabilities, and then you see what's happening, I think that magic... Again, our drone, like, the drone happened because I- I, people were saying, "I want indoor cameras, I don't want indoor cameras." And I'm like, "God, that's a, that's a weird..."

   4. HSHarry Stebbings26:30

      Yes.

   5. JSJamie Siminoff26:30

      "Like, so you want an indoor camera." Like, "When I'm away, I want indoor cameras all over my house." "Okay." "But when I'm home, I don't want indoor cameras in the house." I'm like, "Well, that's tough." And then I'm like, "Wow, a drone. Like, a drone can fly around the house." Well, there's no autonomous drones. Well, we know how to make, you know, like, we have LIDAR, like, "Oh, we'll use LIDAR." So like, so we start hacking around and we make this thing that's not a drone, it's an indoor camera that can be anywhere in your house at any angle, anytime, but super privacy protected in terms of when you're there, it's like, sitting in a shrouded thing and it doesn't do anything.

   6. HSHarry Stebbings26:59

      This sounds like my old girlfriends when they said, "I really want money, but I also want lots of your time," and I'm like-

   7. JSJamie Siminoff27:04

      (laughs)

   8. HSHarry Stebbings27:05

      (laughs) ... "Yeah. Sure. Uh, I agree with you." Um, no, I, uh, I- I love that. And, but that is challenging. Can I ask something? I think one thing that's, like, really fascinating here is, like, competition.

10. 27:17 – 30:23

    Taking on Tony Fadell and Google

    1. HSHarry Stebbings27:17

       You were going up against, like, Tony Fidel and Google in these products.

    2. JSJamie Siminoff27:22

       Yep.

    3. HSHarry Stebbings27:22

       How was that as a competitive match?

    4. JSJamie Siminoff27:26

       I mean, imagine, like, I'm- I'm literally like, basically just out of my garage in this like, tiny little space. I mean like, we had to, like, move... Like, there was like, chalk lines where like, the- the murders were, you know, before we got there. I mean, this place was like, rough when we got to it. This little, tiny, little like, garage office in Santa Monica. We're DoorBot still. We're not even Ring, we're DoorBot.

    5. HSHarry Stebbings27:46

       (Blows air)

    6. JSJamie Siminoff27:46

       And we're trying to build Ring, and I'm like, I'm so tiny. And Tony Vidal is like this just, larger than life, and Nest, and he buys Dropcam.

    7. HSHarry Stebbings27:57

       (laughs)

    8. JSJamie Siminoff27:57

       And it's like, "Wah, wah, wah." You know, it's not a... (laughs)

    9. HSHarry Stebbings28:01

       (laughs)

    10. JSJamie Siminoff28:02

        And- and Dropcam was, you know, like, was, you know, they were, you know, doing some amazing stuff and- and, uh, so it was, it was, I would say it was very scary, you know? But the other side was, we had such a strong mission, so I- I had a super strong mission. I also had this thing where I always said, like, have people visualize. Like, if we're going to, if we're not gonna make it, I want there to be, like, a giant hole in the ground where our office was in Santa Monica.

    11. HSHarry Stebbings28:29

        (laughs)

    12. JSJamie Siminoff28:29

        Like, we are burning the boats so much that like, I want it to be a crater if we like... Like, we're not gonna like, squeak our way out of business. We are going to like, literally be like, the greatest bankruptcy of all time.

    13. HSHarry Stebbings28:40

        (laughs)

    14. JSJamie Siminoff28:40

        Like, we're going for it.

    15. HSHarry Stebbings28:41

        (laughs) Yeah.

    16. JSJamie Siminoff28:42

        And so, we really like, truly, which is like, a venture thing is like, we- we went for it, and I think any venture, if you interviewed any of the people that were in there, they were probably like, "Yeah, Jamie scared the shit out of us many times."

    17. HSHarry Stebbings28:54

        Do you think founders see competition right today? Do you think they use competition right? You said about burn the boats. I, people are like, "Oh, you should never, you know, you shouldn't compare yourself to others." I want to. I, you know, people say, "Kill them with kindness." You know, David Goggins says, "No, like, strangle them with your success." Like, every run I'm like, "Ha-"

    18. JSJamie Siminoff29:13

        Right.

    19. HSHarry Stebbings29:13

        "... the girlfriends that dump me, I'm getting fitter."

    20. JSJamie Siminoff29:16

        Yeah.

    21. HSHarry Stebbings29:16

        Like, do you know what I mean?

    22. JSJamie Siminoff29:17

        Yeah. I would say, like, I think you want to n- not, I think you want to be focused on, like, that you have to exist for your customer. Like, you have to be... Like, the customer needs you so much that like, that's like... So, I- I, you see competition, and like, yeah, like Tony with Nest. Like, I mean, it was, like, he was at Google and he bought Dropcam. Like, I mean, I, I'm like, "I'm a human being," like, I, you- you see this.

    23. HSHarry Stebbings29:39

        (laughs)

    24. JSJamie Siminoff29:40

        But, I did get, like, the mission. Again, like, that's where mission... Mission, to me, is of one thing, it's probably the strongest North Star, because if you have that, if you're, if you're missionary, like, it- it's amazing if you look at, like, how missionary people are able to, like, defy gravity when they shouldn't be, because you believe in something that's sort of bigger than this, like, tactical business. Because on the tactical business side, if we said like, "Oh, yeah. We're gonna, out of our garage in Santa Monica, we should be fine going after Nest and Google, like, and Dropcam. Like, it shouldn't be a problem. Like, we- we're totally fine."

    25. HSHarry Stebbings30:12

        Would you- would you ever invest in people without a mission? I'm an investor by day-

    26. JSJamie Siminoff30:15

        No. No.

    27. HSHarry Stebbings30:15

        ... but I see a lot of people who do 4x4 quadrants and say, "Highest margin here."

    28. JSJamie Siminoff30:20

        Couldn't care less.

    29. HSHarry Stebbings30:21

        Couldn't care less.

11. 30:23 – 34:55

    Mission-Driven Investing

    1. JSJamie Siminoff30:23

       ... because long term, it's like business changes, technology changes, like chatbot AI comes out. Like, what- like, it's like, I want, like, what do you want in your soul to achieve? And if that's something that is interesting to me, then I want to back that. And I also, I do, you know, I do like when it benefits society. Um, it doesn't have to. I mean, there's people that do lots of things that make money that don't benefit society. I like putting my time, money, energy, brain power on something that has some benefit to society, 'cause I feel like that's stuff that if I lose, I still won. Like, losing trying to help people is still a good thing.

    2. HSHarry Stebbings31:00

       Do you think people convey that mission in the right way today? And what I mean by that is, like, I always say, "If you had a billboard, like, what would you put on it? Ten words or less." And so few can do that.

    3. JSJamie Siminoff31:10

       Well, so they're- they're scared to for the right reason, which is that money doesn't really... So, I did this thing, I don't even know if I've ever even talked about it. I did a triple deck. So, when I raised... I had one round that I raised. I won't even say which one, but it was a later round and where I was actually in control. It's like the first time that I was actually, like, the belle of the ball, like, you know, like- like, people wanted to talk to me for, like, a little bit.

    4. HSHarry Stebbings31:32

       (laughs)

    5. JSJamie Siminoff31:32

       And so I went with this triple deck. The first deck was all mission. And when I ended it, it felt like it could have been the f- like, all that I, like, talked about. And literally, there'd be venture capitalists, very prominent ones that would be like, "Oh, wow, like, you have a great mission. I'm sure your business sucks. Like, thanks for coming." And I'd be like, "Yeah, it sucks. It totally sucks. It's a shit business."

    6. HSHarry Stebbings31:51

       (laughs)

    7. JSJamie Siminoff31:52

       And then there'd be, like, these great venture capitalists that would be like, "Wow, that's so cool. Like, I totally get how this could lead to, like, all these products." And I'm like, "Let me show you." And then deck two is all the product roadmap of what we could build off of this mission. This is very early. Like, we still were, like, a few products, not, like, showing the whole roadmap. And so they're like, "Oh my..." And so then some b- people would be like, "That's great, but, like, you're probably not selling anything 'cause all you keep talking about is mission and product." And I'd be like, "Yeah, shit business," and I'd leave. And then I'd do the... Then for the people that are like, "Wow, things must be going really great. This is awesome. I love what you're doing," I'd show them the third deck, which was actually our financials, which was pretty damn good at the time from, like, revenue growth, everything else. And the best part about this is, very prominent VC we sell comes to me and says like, "When you pitched me, you totally screwed up. We never saw how good the business was. We totally would have invested." And I said, "No, I was interviewing you and you didn't pass the mission test."

    8. HSHarry Stebbings32:51

       Oh. Because they didn't dig deeper? Because they didn't get it?

    9. JSJamie Siminoff32:56

       No.

    10. HSHarry Stebbings32:56

        Because they didn't-

    11. JSJamie Siminoff32:56

        No, because they like, they- they- they s- they- they were like, so like, "Great, you have a mission. Who gives a shit? Like, how's the business?" And I only wanted people, I wanted people that cared, that they would have been also happy losing if this mission was accomplished. And like-

    12. HSHarry Stebbings33:10

        I'm- I- I'm- I- I, okay, Jamie, I- I'm gonna push back just on one sec, like-

    13. JSJamie Siminoff33:15

        Let's do it.

    14. HSHarry Stebbings33:16

        ... we meet- we meet 30 companies a week, okay? Everyone has a fucking mission. Everyone wants to change an industry. Some are sincere, some aren't sincere. You learn over time. You meet once, f- you've never met before. It's one intro. You come in. It's an hour max. It's really fricking hard to tell when you're meeting 30 companies. Your wife's kicked you off (laughs) you know, out of the bedroom 'cause you snore.

    15. JSJamie Siminoff33:41

        Yep.

    16. HSHarry Stebbings33:41

        Your kid's not happy at school.

    17. JSJamie Siminoff33:43

        Yeah.

    18. HSHarry Stebbings33:43

        And you know what?

    19. JSJamie Siminoff33:44

        Yeah.

    20. HSHarry Stebbings33:44

        Maybe they're just like, "Ugh, this is my 29th mission of the week. Where are the fucking sales?" Like-

    21. JSJamie Siminoff33:50

        So, and I, so I'll- I'll- I'll flip it around that I meet 50 of you a week and I'm also interviewing for who cares about, like, re- like, who... Everyone says they care about mission. Who cares about it enough to ask the right questions? Who cares about it enough to realize that this mission could actually lead to something that's so special? Like, like, who fits that? And so yes, of course, like anything, you're gonna miss someone, but I think we were able to put together an investor group that when we did hit the wall, like when I hit that wall, my investors, like, they were in, like, d- I mean, they were... Like, I'll never forget Mood from, um, from Kleiner. I mean, he was literally up all night on the phone calling people, like, and would, like 7:00 AM be like, "I talked to 25 people yesterday." I mean, it was like people were... Because they really, they cared.

    22. HSHarry Stebbings34:40

        Uh, final one before we, before we move on to the acquisition, but I have to ask it. You know, we look at, like, the Ring brand and it looks like just a series of right decisions. When you review it-

    23. JSJamie Siminoff34:50

        (laughs)

    24. HSHarry Stebbings34:51

        ... if you had your time again-

    25. JSJamie Siminoff34:52

        I can't even, I don't even know where to st- okay, keep going, sorry. (laughs)

12. 34:55 – 36:04

    What would you have done differently with Ring?

    1. JSJamie Siminoff34:55

    2. HSHarry Stebbings34:55

       (laughs) If you had your time again, what would you do differently with the Ring brand decisions that you made?

    3. JSJamie Siminoff35:01

       So I would say where it ended up... So, I look at making a brand or a company like making wine. And so the best wine comes from grapes that are stressed, that have like... They're on a hillside with rocks and, like, they- they don't have all the water. They don't have all the like, like they get sort of stressed because if y- if they have, like, too much water, too much fertilizer, they become like big, juicy, fat grapes. And so I kind of look at the same thing, which is like the stress of the problems we had led to the innovations. And so if we didn't stress ourselves and we continue to do this even sometimes artificially, you have to kind of stress yourself to make something great happen. It's like, you know, they say like pressure creates diamonds.

    4. HSHarry Stebbings35:41

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JSJamie Siminoff35:41

       And so I would love to take away all the hard parts because they probably aged me 10 more years. Like, I'll probably... If I die 10 years earlier than I should, it's because of Ring, which is, you know, it's okay. Like, but, but they did stress me out, but then I think they led to, like, all the great things. So if you took them out, we'd probably just be like a big, juicy, fat, sugary, dumb grape.

13. 36:04 – 38:01

    The Best CEOs Inject Risk Into the Business

    1. JSJamie Siminoff36:04

    2. HSHarry Stebbings36:04

       I had Bryan Armstrong on this show from Coinbase and he said that the best CEOs insert risk into the business, which I thought was a really interesting perspective. Do you agree with that? And if you reflect, do you think you inserted enough risk?

    3. JSJamie Siminoff36:17

       I would say it's- it's constraint. I- I would use the word constraint. It's pro- it might be the same exact thing, what he's talking about. But to me it's, it's these artificial constraints. It might be deadlines to get something out by that are too early. It might be when you, uh, when we do product development.... everyone wants to do, like, like, "We're going to build this product in two years, and it does everything we know today." And I'm like, "Oh, that's fun. The technology for two years hasn't evolved."

    4. HSHarry Stebbings36:40

       (laughs)

    5. JSJamie Siminoff36:40

       I'm like, "No. We're gonna, like, push it to stuff that we can't... we can just imagine being done but is, like, sort of hard to imagine how it'll get there, and force ourselves to invent." So, I think you- you have to keep putting yourself in the box. The problem is that I do this well... I do... I- I think I do a good job at this in the company, and then I also do it in my own personal life. And that becomes... You know, like, like, I kind of always realize I'm always kind of, like, pushing myself deeper, whether it's my time into something. Like, I- I- I can't, e-... So it is like learning how to, like, balance those constraints, and whether they're business or personal, so that they don't go too far. Because to the grape example of the wine, if you give the grapes zero water and zero fertilizer, they're dead grapes. And dead grapes don't make any wine.

    6. HSHarry Stebbings37:25

       (laughs) I mean, I feel like we should have- have a cocktail and talk about the personal side.

    7. JSJamie Siminoff37:31

       Oh, done. Yeah.

    8. HSHarry Stebbings37:31

       Uh, yeah.

    9. JSJamie Siminoff37:31

       I mean, it's, you know, it's- it's- it's 9:00 AM here. I'm happy to open up some wine. I mean, that's like... It's past, it's past 9:00.

    10. HSHarry Stebbings37:37

        The- the common thing is, "Harry, I just want you to listen to me."

    11. JSJamie Siminoff37:40

        (laughs)

    12. HSHarry Stebbings37:40

        "I don't need a solution." I'm like, "Okay. I'll- I'll just listen when I know the fucking answer." Um. (laughs)

    13. JSJamie Siminoff37:47

        (laughs)

    14. HSHarry Stebbings37:47

        Anyway, poor Dave here.

    15. JSJamie Siminoff37:48

        Yeah.

    16. HSHarry Stebbings37:48

        To put up with this. Um, well, we- we've talked a little bit, we mentioned the acquisition by Amazon. I want to understand that. Like, how did the deal come to be? You mentioned 45 days after that challenging period.

    17. JSJamie Siminoff37:59

        Yes, yes.

    18. HSHarry Stebbings38:00

        How did the deal come

14. 38:01 – 53:15

    The $1BN Amazon-Ring Acquisition

    1. HSHarry Stebbings38:01

       to be?

    2. JSJamie Siminoff38:02

       So, we had been working with Amazon. Amazon had been, you know, they... Obviously, a lot of stuff in the home. Alexa, uh, they were just coming out with screens with Alexa. They had been... We had, uh, we were a large-ish camera company at the time. Like, we weren't that big, but in the sort of new age camera field, we were, you know, decent size. And so, they came to us to integrate with the Alexa, with the screen. And so, we had been working with them for a few years and forging a relationship where it was really a relationship of, like, learning each other's culture and trust. And so, it was a, it was a great run of doing that, and that's what led to then, you know, in the end, like, that's where they said, like, "Let's- let's put this together."

    3. HSHarry Stebbings38:40

       Okay. So, they say, "Let's put it together." What does that actually, like, mean? Like, what-

    4. JSJamie Siminoff38:45

       So actually, I'll- I'll give you, like, the funny thing. So, we're at lunch with the- the corp dev person, and he's like a good friend, uh, you know, Nick Comoros, a great, great, great friend still today. And we're there, and he says, you know, "I think it's time we come together." And it's one of those, like, "Um," I don't want to, like, jump across the table and be like, "Yes, let's... I'll sell," because then he's gonna be like, "No, come together on this next project." Like, "What are you talking about?" So, I'm like, "Do you mean... ?" And so, it was like one of those, like, um, it was like one of those, like, Zoolander moments, you know? Like, "What do you mean?" Like, "What do you mean?" Like, you know, back and forth. And so, finally he's like, "Yeah, to buy you." And I'm like, "Yes!" (laughs) "Okay, let's do it."

    5. HSHarry Stebbings39:21

       (laughs) I'm so tired. I've been wondering when you were going to ask.

    6. JSJamie Siminoff39:24

       It was like, I- I, then I used to... I- I- I told my investors, I told Amazon. I was either gonna go public or sell to Amazon. Those were my two, my two options. And it was because the only company that I felt would really take the mission, take it, like, and allow us to keep executing on it and stay true to it, was Amazon, or staying independent and go public. I did not know of another company that would buy us and- and truly honor what we were trying to do. And I was actually, I wasn't actually done. That's the funny thing. I wasn't... At that... I was not, like, tired of doing it. I was so on the mission. I wanted to accelerate that as much as I could.

    7. HSHarry Stebbings40:02

       Uh, o- okay. B- uh, my question then is, like, if you weren't done, you'd just got over that very challenging period... I spoke to Randy, uh, at DFJ. I told you I spoke to you before the show.

    8. JSJamie Siminoff40:13

       Yep.

    9. HSHarry Stebbings40:13

       And he said... Specifically asked why that time you decided was the right time, because you could have done another year, three- 2X the company-

    10. JSJamie Siminoff40:20

        So-

    11. HSHarry Stebbings40:20

        ... whatever, grown the company and sold for more. Why then?

    12. JSJamie Siminoff40:24

        So, here you're a missionary person. Uh, you have this thing that you believe in and you love, and you almost lost it 45 days before this. Like, literally. I mean, like, like, like, truly almost lost it. Like, I mean, like, where it would have been... I-... It would have been sold, but like a fire sale sold. Like, not- not like a, like no... And so, I did like the canary in the coal mine, and the canary died. And so, I- I- I- I said to my, I said to my t-... I'm like, "Going to Amazon is going to allow us to now, like, really execute on this vision we have and achieve what we know we can achieve, and we're not gonna die in the process." Like, it... So it was... It... I mean, it was a s-... Like, can you imagine how emotional that time was? I mean, where I- I literally looked at, like, myself, like, if things hadn't worked out the other way, like, I- I don't know if I would've... Like, I might have had to move my, like, personally move. Like, I don't know if I could have afforded the house I was in, which was not a fancy house. Like, I had no... I was, I had... Everything was in ring.

    13. HSHarry Stebbings41:21

        What do you say to yourself when you're staring into the abyss? When you have that moment when you could lose the most important thing other than your wife, obviously (clears throat) .

    14. JSJamie Siminoff41:28

        Yeah.

    15. HSHarry Stebbings41:28

        Obviously. Uh, important addendum, that (laughs) . Um, the most important thing. What do you say to yourself?

    16. JSJamie Siminoff41:36

        So, uh, you know, what I said was like, ba- basically, again, this is where I get very calm and checklist, which is like, "What do I need to do to get through this?" And I sort of take all the stress of it. Like, it's funny. It comes back afterwards. Like, it... You don't get to get rid of it, but I sort of push it all to the side, and it's like, um, like, I only have one w-... Like, I- I... There's only one road to live, and I gotta go down that road, and it's risky, but I'm going to do it. Because if- if you flail, you're dead. I mean, any, like... So- so- I just got super focused, and then afterwards, I mean, the stress was... I mean, it was like one of those just emotional, I mean, like, insane. Like, I mean, it was like I'm- I'm... I might still be dealing with the PTSD today, seriously. Like...

    17. HSHarry Stebbings42:16

        I- I love it. C-... I- uh, how did you celebrate the deal? Dave said I had to ask this one. So, Amazon happens, this Zoolander moment happens, and it's like, done. How did you celebrate?

    18. JSJamie Siminoff42:26

        ... yeah, there's been some celebration. I mean, I bought a mountain bike. Um, that was great. Um, you know, I might have bought a couple of other things, you know, but, uh, but, you know, I- I- I really celebrated- (laughs)

    19. HSHarry Stebbings42:37

        Can I ask a stupid question? Does money just, like, come into your account one day, like boom?

    20. JSJamie Siminoff42:42

        So-

    21. HSHarry Stebbings42:42

        Or is it, like-

    22. JSJamie Siminoff42:43

        (laughs)

    23. HSHarry Stebbings42:43

        ... over time?

    24. JSJamie Siminoff42:44

        It's actually the weirdest thing. So, you- so you end up, like, announcing the sale, and everyone thinks you have the money that day.

    25. HSHarry Stebbings42:50

        Yeah.

    26. JSJamie Siminoff42:50

        But then the government has to, like, look over the deal. And then the government says, "Okay, you can buy it." And then there's like- you have to still do this whole thing. So, like, you actually don't know when this is going to a- like, literally, like the- like, refreshing the thing. So, um, s- so a friend of mine asked me to speak at like, uh, uh, TaskUs, which is a public company now, asked me to speak at his conference. And I said it, like, months earlier that I would do it. So, it just happens that I'm- I'm literally there, and the money's supposed to come in, and I'm, like, literally, like, sitting there, like, right be- like, I'm, like, speaking and I, like, just hit, like, a refresh. And all of a sudden I'm like, "Holy shit." And I'm like-

    27. HSHarry Stebbings43:25

        (laughs)

    28. JSJamie Siminoff43:25

        And everyone's like, "What?" I'm like, "Sorry guys," I'm like, "The- the actual closing just happened." (laughs) I'm like, "This is pretty cool."

    29. HSHarry Stebbings43:31

        Did you tell them that?

    30. JSJamie Siminoff43:33

        Oh, yeah.
15. 53:15 – 54:57

    Emotional Leaders

    1. JSJamie Siminoff53:15

    2. HSHarry Stebbings53:15

       Jamie, you are emotional, you're passionate. I'm the same, and I worry that it's not always actually productive in leadership.

    3. JSJamie Siminoff53:21

       (laughs)

    4. HSHarry Stebbings53:21

       I will absolutely let go on someone. I will have my say, and it is not varnished and I'm doing a feedback review. I'm fucking pissed. I'm pissed off. Like, do you think emotions can actually prevent you from being a great leader?

    5. JSJamie Siminoff53:38

       So, I'd say-

    6. HSHarry Stebbings53:39

       How do you-

    7. JSJamie Siminoff53:40

       ... I think... I, I still have definitely... I, I still act sometimes in ways that are probably negative to the situation. Like, they probably don't benefit the situation. I'd say, but over time, I've gotten better at letting the emotions help drive things. So when I was super young, yeah, I, like, I, I blew things up that looking back, it was like, wow, if you just had been a little more like, you know, like a little more thoughtful about that, the outcome for everyone would have been better. So I certainly, like, had those times when I was not perfect. But I'd say the other side is, like, people do see, like, if you, if you're not an asshole, like, if you're yelling about something 'cause you're upset about your customers, like, people also get upset about it. And then it... So I think it does, like, help drive things when people realize that, like, they're not working for a robot. They're, like, working for someone who cares, and then they care. So I'd... I do think it does.... it, it can sort of be beneficial. But yeah, I think y- y- it is something to work on for everybody probably who's leading anything and, and is passionate.

    8. HSHarry Stebbings54:41

       Before I, like, delve into your personal life, which I'm fascinated to do, um, I, I, I hear you have some news. We talked about leadership styles there.

    9. JSJamie Siminoff54:50

       Yeah.

    10. HSHarry Stebbings54:50

        I'd love to hear what the news is 'cause I've been dangled a carrot that there is news, and Melissa, being the ultimate pro-

    11. JSJamie Siminoff54:55

        Yeah.

    12. HSHarry Stebbings54:56

        ... told me that you would tell me.

16. 54:57 – 57:16

    Jamie is Stepping Down from CEO

    1. HSHarry Stebbings54:57

       So, what is the news and can you share a little bit with me?

    2. JSJamie Siminoff55:00

       So the, I mean, I, uh, so the news is that I, I'm going to step aside as CEO of Ring and I'll be the, uh, chief inventor, which is what I always called myself, and we're gonna bring a, a new CEO in to, to take the reins and try to take this, I'd say fairly massive business to the next level.

    3. HSHarry Stebbings55:17

       I think the question everyone will be asking is, like, two things. Uh, why now, one, and then two, like, what are you gonna do now? Like, obviously you, you're still there with Ring, but you'll have more time I take it. So, how do you think about those two?

    4. JSJamie Siminoff55:30

       So, I think to, like, the great story of Amazon, it's not why now. I talked to Amazon a year ago and I said, "I think that my pa-" Like, where my passion is, where I am, like, I, I, I'm, I think I'm a good business leader, but this thing's gotten so big that there's probably a better person now. So, like, it's a, it is a real, like, company. And, like, I still wanna help on the product, I still wanna get the emails, but, like, I don't think I'm the best person to be the CEO anymore. And as the, like, there is a CEO and putting your title of CEO does prevent people from doing other, like, to being empowered to do other things. And so a year ago we started the process of looking and figuring that out and, like, working with my boss, who's Dave Limp, who runs all the devices. And so it's been... We told, I actually told the team this summer that we were doing this and that we were in the process of it and that we would take some time. And so it's been, like, I'd say a, a, a very sort of, like, the right way to do this, which is, like, no one, you know, no one felt like it was gonna be immediate. We're trying to make the right decisions for the business. And I do look at Ring, I have, I have one kid. You know, most people have two. I think the average is two. The second one is Ring. And so I do look at, like, no matter what, Ring is my child, like, it always will be. I'll always care for it, like, no matter what. Like, for in, in 30 years, whatever it is, like, it'll always be something that matters to me.

    5. HSHarry Stebbings56:52

       If my child was worth as much as Ring, I would have favorites. (laughs)

    6. JSJamie Siminoff56:57

       That's true. Any- yeah.

    7. HSHarry Stebbings56:58

       Just putting, just putting it out there.

    8. JSJamie Siminoff57:00

       Yeah. So sorry, sorry O- sorry Oliver, but you know, Ring did sell for over a billion dollars, and so like, you know.

    9. HSHarry Stebbings57:05

       Yeah. (laughs) Wha- what are you gonna do? You know?

    10. JSJamie Siminoff57:07

        Yeah. Like, yeah.

    11. HSHarry Stebbings57:07

        You gotta be...

    12. JSJamie Siminoff57:08

        I mean, he's 14. It's, uh, it's, it's tough. Like, it's tough.

    13. HSHarry Stebbings57:11

        I, I, I have to ask. I, I heard obviously about fatherhood being such a big part of your life, which is

17. 57:16 – 1:01:38

    Parenting Tips

    1. HSHarry Stebbings57:16

       wonderful.

    2. JSJamie Siminoff57:16

       Mm-hmm.

    3. HSHarry Stebbings57:16

       What does being a great father mean to you, Jamie?

    4. JSJamie Siminoff57:19

       I think being a great father is, has been, like, integrating, you know, my son's life. And so my son was three when we started this. Um, he's been, he was at the factory with me when he was five in China, which people were like, "You can't bring a five-year-old to China." And I'm like, "Why not? Like, why, why can't you?"

    5. HSHarry Stebbings57:35

       Nike did.

    6. JSJamie Siminoff57:36

       Yeah.

    7. HSHarry Stebbings57:37

       (laughs)

    8. JSJamie Siminoff57:37

       So like I did. Like, I just, you bring a kid to Chi- bring a kid to China. Sure. And like

    9. NANarrator57:41

       (laughs)

    10. JSJamie Siminoff57:41

        ... but like, and so he's grown up with the business and I think that's, for me, it's partly, like, it was a way to spend time with him, but partly it's like all I want from, all I want him to be able to achieve in his life is to find his passion. Like, I just want him to do something that he loves, that he believes in. And so like I, I hope that going through this journey with me and seeing this and that, you know, he'll see that this was my passion and that he'll, like, get to that same place himself.

    11. HSHarry Stebbings58:08

        Do you think that money allows him to pursue that freedom, not more, uh, more than he would otherwise? And I think it does 'cause, like, the truth is there are some people who love sculptures and being a sculptor or what- whatever the fuck it is.

    12. JSJamie Siminoff58:21

        I, I would say if you look at-

    13. HSHarry Stebbings58:21

        But actually-

    14. JSJamie Siminoff58:22

        ... statistics, it's probably the other way. I would say probably most kids that grow up with a lot of money have trouble finding happiness because I think the, the money becomes a responsibility. Like, I didn't have that. Like, I was just able to, like, go out and do my thing 'cause, like, I didn't have to worry about, like, l- you know, being who my dad was or whatever. And so I think there's something to that that I'm trying to hopefully instill in him that it's really not, it wasn't the money, it was what we did for people, what we accomplished, what our product, like, what the product accomplished, like, what we were able to invent, like, what we, like, that's what mattered. And so I, I, like, pray to anything that, like, my son grows up just passionate about the good. Like I said, if it's sculpture, if it's, if it's running a food bank, I don't care what it is, I just hope that it's, like, what he feels like in his heart is, like, what he wants to do every day and wake up to do.

    15. HSHarry Stebbings59:20

        What was the hardest thing about parenting Jamie? I didn't have kids. If you were like, "Harry, this is, this is hard." What would you tell me?

    16. JSJamie Siminoff59:26

        I mean, the, the worst thing for me would be having an asshole as a kid. Like, like, a kid who's just not, like, you know. Like, there are kids that are just... And I, you know, and so, like, and I think a lot of times it's parents that don't spend time with their kids or are busy or are whatever. And so it's like I, I would just, I'd, I'd hate if my son wasn't e- had, wasn't empathetic to people, didn't care about things. Like, it would just, that would, it would literally kill me. And my son is like, he is, he is sweet and empathetic and passionate and about his own things. Like, he doesn't like the things I like, which I kind of almost... Like, I, I, like, I love skiing. He doesn't really like skiing. I kind of love that. Like, it's like he loves basketball. Like, great. Like, you love basketball? Go be the best basketball player in the world.

    17. HSHarry Stebbings1:00:06

        When he was born, where was the company?

    18. JSJamie Siminoff1:00:09

        It wasn't.

    19. HSHarry Stebbings1:00:09

        What stage?

    20. JSJamie Siminoff1:00:10

        Zero. So we start, I started it when he was three in the garage. So he literally grew up-

    21. HSHarry Stebbings1:00:15

        (laughs)

    22. JSJamie Siminoff1:00:15

        We have, like, some pictures of it. Not, but, like, he literally grew up in the middle of the garage floor with his toys, with, like, three guys sitting around at desks, and we called ourselves the Siminoff Brothers. And so we, he'd come in after preschool and it would be Siminoff Brothers unite. And then he'd sit there with, like, a truck.... and, like, on the thing. And by the way, those, the- the two other people that were in the... and that are still at Ring today, John Modestine and August Samant.

    23. HSHarry Stebbings1:00:43

        I, uh, my question is, like, do, do you think having a child drives you in a level that just you alone cannot? You are not responsible just for yourself now, but it's another... Does it bring a different dimension?

    24. JSJamie Siminoff1:00:55

        It's certainly... It, it's, it, good and bad. So, like, one is you want to do stuff because you want for the child. The other side is, like, the risk side, it becomes harder because you're- you're now affecting a life with what you do. Like, when- when the- when the company almost went under, it was like I had to think about, "Wow, like, we might have to move my son out of the house that he knows and put him in public school versus the school that he's in right now." And again, like, we weren't living, like, on the high horse at the time, but like, it would have been a big change. It's like, "Wow, I'm gonna have to, like, affect his life," and that's tough.

    25. HSHarry Stebbings1:01:27

        Yeah. That's really tough. Final one, I promise, (laughs) before I intrude too deeply. You're an intense dude, um, uh, (laughs) respectfully. Um, how do you, like,

18. 1:01:38 – 1:03:15

    Marriage Tips

    1. HSHarry Stebbings1:01:38

       have this intensity in your marriage and, like, with your wife without having, like, "Whoa, Jamie, too much." Like, "Calm down."

    2. JSJamie Siminoff1:01:46

       Again, I think something I've been lucky is to be s- somewhat balanced, like, in and out. Like, I- I- I almost look at it like a- like an athlete, like on and off the field. Like, I kind of know when I'm on the field. I play as hard as anyone could ever play that game. But when I step off the field, I actually am able to turn a lot of that off in that way. Like, I'm not competitive in my own personal life with... Like, some people, and I see it, like, they're competitive in every single thing they do. Like, you know, if, like, I'm drinking water, one of these people are like, "You'll have to drink water faster." Like, everything has to be better. Like, I'm not that. Like, I- I- I'm so- I'm super competitive in what I do with Ring, I'm super passionate about it. Like, I care so deeply about that. But then I am able to, like, go and, you know, be silly and, like, be with my son and my wife and be with people and be with people and, like, not- and not have that same intensity, and I think that's a good... I hope it's a good balance. I think it is.

    3. HSHarry Stebbings1:02:42

       I know. I- I- I think it's a very good balance. I, um, could probably just learn from it. Um-

    4. JSJamie Siminoff1:02:46

       (laughs)

    5. HSHarry Stebbings1:02:46

       ... uh-

    6. JSJamie Siminoff1:02:46

       And- but- and- and I do think so, and- and I would say, like, younger, I didn't have that balance as much, and I think I did. Like, these are some things that I learned over time, which is I do look at some of these super, like you, like some of these young people that are so successful, I don't... Like, I don't think I could have been that successful that young. I think I needed to learn too many things. You're way better than I am-

    7. HSHarry Stebbings1:03:04

       (laughs)

    8. JSJamie Siminoff1:03:04

       ... is what I'm saying.

    9. HSHarry Stebbings1:03:05

       Well, I- I- I've been doing it for eight years. One, people think... I feel like, you know, there's s- like sports stars who are like, "Wow." It's like they've been in it for a long time.

    10. JSJamie Siminoff1:03:13

        Yeah.

    11. HSHarry Stebbings1:03:13

        Um, you fuck up a

19. 1:03:15 – 1:05:15

    Tolerance for Mediocrity

    1. HSHarry Stebbings1:03:15

       lot-

    2. JSJamie Siminoff1:03:15

       Yeah.

    3. HSHarry Stebbings1:03:15

       ... um, (laughs) is the lesson. Sorry. Final thing. Are you tolerant? I'm really intolerant. If it's not done right, I am pissed. Like, e- I'm not... Mediocre is not okay. Tomorrow is not okay. And I'm pissed o- and I'm also-

    4. JSJamie Siminoff1:03:30

       Yeah.

    5. HSHarry Stebbings1:03:30

       ... I'm just letting it out, at least for now. I'm pissed off with always having to be the one who is driving this. Why? Like, seriously-

    6. JSJamie Siminoff1:03:37

       Uh-

    7. HSHarry Stebbings1:03:37

       ... I pay you to do your job. Why is it me chasing you?

    8. JSJamie Siminoff1:03:41

       I certainly, when it matters to our customers, our neighbors, I, like 100% is all that I will accept. Like, I will not accept anything less. Sometimes now again. Sometimes you put a product out that's not there yet. Like sometimes, you know, like you do some of these things, but it- it just, in my- it destroys me. And- and I see, and- and one thing that does kill me is I see what we're coming out with next always, and so I just always want to get that to our neighbors as fast as I can, and it takes time. And- and there's... One of the best... I don't know if any, like the biography of Walt Disney, if you've ever read that.

    9. HSHarry Stebbings1:04:17

       No, I haven't-

    10. JSJamie Siminoff1:04:18

        So-

    11. HSHarry Stebbings1:04:18

        ... but it's been on my to-do list.

    12. JSJamie Siminoff1:04:20

        Like, read that, because every... The best thing I- I... The thing I love is, like, I've had this... Every product we launch, I'm always sad that day, because I know what we're coming out with next. Like, I know what it could be better at. And Walt Disney, at every premiere for these movies that people were literally like Academy Award-winning, and it was like the best animation of all time and all that, but he knew that the next animation version he was working on was better, and so he would sit in the back, miserable at the premiere, because he was mad that he couldn't show what was actually better already. And so I do have that- that drive and that feeling of like, "I just want to get the next thing out," which there's always. Like, there'll never... Like, hopefully there'll never not be a next thing. I mean, like, then I'll run out of invention.

    13. HSHarry Stebbings1:05:03

        (laughs)

    14. JSJamie Siminoff1:05:04

        (laughs)

    15. HSHarry Stebbings1:05:04

        I'm sure there'll be a next thing. I heard about Edison Junior's incubations.

    16. JSJamie Siminoff1:05:07

        Yeah.

    17. HSHarry Stebbings1:05:07

        I think you've got enough of this, Jamie. (laughs)

    18. JSJamie Siminoff1:05:09

        Yeah.

    19. HSHarry Stebbings1:05:09

        Um, I- I'm gonna do a quick-fire with you. So I say a short statement, you give me your immediate thoughts. Does that sound okay?

    20. JSJamie Siminoff1:05:14

        Great.

20. 1:05:15 – 1:07:00

    Quick-Fire Round

    1. JSJamie Siminoff1:05:15

    2. HSHarry Stebbings1:05:15

       So what's... You- you mentioned, um, that Walt Disney. What are the other books that you would say, like must-read?

    3. JSJamie Siminoff1:05:22

       Oh, uh, Invention by James Dyson.

    4. HSHarry Stebbings1:05:24

       Mm. Actually, I- I listened to a fantastic podcast with him, uh, by Founders Podcast, David Sehnra. Very, very good. I'll send it to you afterwards.

    5. JSJamie Siminoff1:05:31

       Okay. I will, I will re- I'll tell you. Anything with James Dyson, I'm like, yeah. And like he's like my man-crush hero.

    6. HSHarry Stebbings1:05:36

       Uh, what have you changed your mind on in the last 12 months?

    7. JSJamie Siminoff1:05:39

       You know, it's f- I- I change my mind all the time on things, so you evolve as a person. Can't think of like a big thing I've changed my mind on in the last 12 months. I'm trying to-

    8. HSHarry Stebbings1:05:48

       Mine is remote work. Back in the office, everyone's fucking loving it. Like, it is so much better.

    9. JSJamie Siminoff1:05:54

       Oh, it's not. I- I'm- I'm a- I'm a... Yeah. Well, we hate... Amazon just went to a, basically a full in, you know, three-days-a-week thing, and, um, I back- I back them in that. But I also will say, I still do appreciate the work-from-home.

    10. HSHarry Stebbings1:06:09

        I- I get it. You also have kids and a wife. I'm, you know, alone in the dark.

    11. JSJamie Siminoff1:06:14

        (laughs)

    12. HSHarry Stebbings1:06:16

        (laughs) That sounds really sinister and creepy. Uh.

    13. JSJamie Siminoff1:06:18

        (laughs) .

    14. HSHarry Stebbings1:06:18

        What are you most optimistic about, Jamie? What are you excited for in the world? There's a lot of fucking pessimism. What are you excited about?

    15. JSJamie Siminoff1:06:23

        I think, you know, as an inventor, there's always problems. And so I- I think we are at like a renaissance right now. The one thing that upsets me right now is the press has decided this is, like, a bad time. The press is like, "Oh, bad time." No, it, there... It is tough. There are things that are tough. But there are so many great things happening in transportation, electrification. Like, there's just, like even in my own business around security, like the stuff we're inventing. I- I am... I don't think I've been more excited about a time of what's happening. I mean, look at, like, the autonomous cars. Like, there's just so much cool stuff coming.... and so, to me, I'm like, I am very pro, like, world, pro-long term, pro-excited.

Episode duration: 1:11:48