Rishi Sunak: The UK's New High Potential Visa; Rishi's £100M AI Task Force | E1025

1. 0:00 – 0:48

   Intro

   1. RSRishi Sunak0:00

      The UK's already playing a leadership role here. Our new task force, AI task force, which we should talk about, has £100 million, which mean- means that we're investing more in safety research for AI than any government anywhere in the world, um, and doing so in a way that I think is agile. But also the, the, we're working with the companies themselves, DeepMind, Anthropic, and OpenAI. I'm pleased that they've said that they will give early or priority access to the models so that we can develop the right type of evaluation and research safety. So I think that's a really positive step forward. (instrumental music)

   2. HSHarry Stebbings0:34

      Rishi, I am so excited to do this. We last did this in COVID on Zoom. To do this in person is such a joy. So thank you so much for doing this with us.

   3. RSRishi Sunak0:41

      No, it's great. It's great to see you. Welcome to Downing Street.

   4. HSHarry Stebbings0:43

      Isn't it lovely to finally meet? I wanna start at parents shape us in so many ways.

2. 0:48 – 3:13

   How Rishi’s Parents Shaped Him

   1. HSHarry Stebbings0:48

      When you think back to your childhood and your parents, how do you think about how they've shaped you today?

   2. RSRishi Sunak0:53

      You know, my parents, um, are both in healthcare, which is quite important for how I was brought up. So my mum was a pharmacist. She ran a local pharmacy. My dad was a GP. S- and I grew up working for my mum, so for me, just seeing the importance of the NHS and healthcare to people's lives was just a hugely important part of our upbringing. And it, it matters to me today, which is why I spend so much time focusing on the NHS and making sure that people get the healthcare they need. I guess the other thing is, my mum was a small business owner.

   3. HSHarry Stebbings1:22

      Yeah.

   4. RSRishi Sunak1:22

      And she ran her pharmacy, I worked in it, I helped her with the accounts. So, I saw the, you know, what it took to run a small business, you know, the trials and tribulations, but also how fulfilling it was to provide jobs for people and make a difference that way. But perhaps the most powerful thing is education. I mean, it, it's a kind of classic Indian immigrant thing anyway, but for my parents, education was everything. So they strived and sacrificed so that their, me and my brother and sister could just have great education, 'cause they believed that was the best way you could, you know, help your children have a better life than you. And that is something that I passionately believe today. So I think education is the closest thing we have to a silver bullet, and part of my job as PM is to make sure everyone has access to world-class education.

   5. HSHarry Stebbings2:03

      Can I ask you a bizarre question?

   6. RSRishi Sunak2:05

      Yeah.

   7. HSHarry Stebbings2:05

      And I know I'm not meant to go off-script.

   8. RSRishi Sunak2:06

      (laughs)

   9. HSHarry Stebbings2:07

      Do you h- when you become PM, do you call your mother and you just-

   10. RSRishi Sunak2:10

       Um, I-

   11. HSHarry Stebbings2:11

       ... have a go?

   12. RSRishi Sunak2:11

       I d- I t- you know, gosh, on the day, I'm trying to remember actually, I don't know if I did. I, actually I was, I was-

   13. HSHarry Stebbings2:16

       Was really-

   14. RSRishi Sunak2:17

       I can't remember if I did. It was so busy that day. Um, but no, I, you know, I, I, that I'm very close to them. They, uh, you know, I saw them, actually, a fun note, I saw them, I saw them yesterday as it turned out. They came to see us for lunch, but I saw them a few weeks ago 'cause I was back in Southampton for a football match not that long ago, and they still had season tickets at Saint Mary's, and so I got to see them, uh, during the game. It was actually quite sweet 'cause my mum had, um, they were upset 'cause I'd come to visit the pharmacy that my mum ran earlier in the week. I hadn't told them I was back in Southampton. They were very upset. They tried to come and see me, it wasn't possible. And my mum had, uh, had got some Indian sweets that she wanted to give me that she'd made called barfi that she couldn't give me then, but then she managed to give them to me at the football match, um, which was important to her.

   15. HSHarry Stebbings3:00

       Right.

   16. RSRishi Sunak3:00

       And then, oddly enough, I saw President Zelenskyy on, um, on, on the Monday after that, and he and I were chatting and he was hungry, so I actually, I gave him some of my mum's barfi.

   17. HSHarry Stebbings3:10

       (laughs)

   18. RSRishi Sunak3:10

       Um, which she was very happy to-

   19. HSHarry Stebbings3:12

       She must've been thrilled by that.

   20. RSRishi Sunak3:12

       Yeah, she was

3. 3:13 – 7:35

   How the Private and Public Sector Can Work Together Better

   1. RSRishi Sunak3:13

      thrilled, thrilled by that, so yeah.

   2. HSHarry Stebbings3:14

      Now obviously it's London Tech Week. I wanna dive straight in and ask you, when we think about kind of collaboration and working together, respectfully but I think there's a big chasm between like private sector knowledge and then, you know, public sector and regulation. How do we think about working together most effectively between these two, not at all opposing, but just different sides?

   3. RSRishi Sunak3:32

      Yeah. Uh, you know, I was talking earlier at London Tech Week, and one of the things I said is, "You know, what's the most important thing that people should look to to why the UK can be the best place for this anywhere in the world?" And I said the answer was leadership. It's just people having, people in your industry having the confidence that the government, and in particular me as Prime Minister, gets it. And I do. It's, it's partly my background, where I spent my time working, whether it's in California or elsewhere, but I, you know, I wanna make sure that government acts a bit more like the world that you come from-

   4. HSHarry Stebbings4:06

      Yeah.

   5. RSRishi Sunak4:06

      ... in terms of its ability to be innovative, to move at pace, but I think it's really important that government is engaging constantly with the innovative part of our, our country, because that's how we're gonna drive growth and create jobs for people, and government needs to be understanding what do we need to put in place to make sure that that is successful.

   6. HSHarry Stebbings4:25

      I totally agree with you. How do you think about measuring success of what we do and how we work together?

   7. RSRishi Sunak4:31

      Yeah. So one of the things I did was, which was quite, uh, quite in, uh, I think disruptive and radical in a good way, was I created a brand new department at, you know, the Department for Science, uh, Innovation, and Technology, because it was important to me. I wanted to send a strong signal that this agenda is something that government needs to take seriously and do differently, and that department is gonna do things differently. It's attracting people from the industry, it's taking a slightly more risk approach to innovation. So I think that, that, that is all powerful. Look, how do we measure success? Look, the traditional things, you know, how much venture capital are we raising here?

   8. HSHarry Stebbings5:08

      Mm-hmm.

   9. RSRishi Sunak5:08

      How many unicorns are we creating here? I think we all know the stats, right? More than France and Germany combined, more unicorns than anywhere apart from the US and, uh, and China. Are the next exciting technologies all happening here, whether that's quantum, engineering biology, uh, AI, uh, et cetera, et cetera, fintech. Like I think those are all the kind of obvious ways to measure it. Um, but I think, yeah, our large companies coming to locate here, which they are, right? Actually just incredible announcement today, Andreessen Horowitz, you know, one of the world's most successful VC investors opening their first international office here in the UK, and that just comes on the back of Palantir saying that they're gonna do their AI headquarters for research here in the UK. And we've had all the large, uh, labs, Anthropic, OpenAI-

   10. HSHarry Stebbings5:57

       Mm-hmm.

   11. RSRishi Sunak5:58

       ... joining DeepMind and opening international offices here in, in the UK. So again, those are, those are all metrics that tell me we must be getting something right.... um, 'cause companies are voting with their feet.

   12. HSHarry Stebbings6:08

       How much do you think this success can pronounce? I know that sounds, uh, a strange one but, like, when you start to see Andreessen, it's kind of like dominoes falling.

   13. RSRishi Sunak6:15

       Yes.

   14. HSHarry Stebbings6:15

       And suddenly, you know, I- I spend a lot of time on Twitter, I have a lot more free time than you do.

   15. RSRishi Sunak6:19

       (laughs)

   16. HSHarry Stebbings6:19

       Uh, but you suddenly see people go like, "Oh, wow," and like-

   17. RSRishi Sunak6:22

       Yeah.

   18. HSHarry Stebbings6:22

       ... this is a real signal. And then you saw a lot more VCs be like, "Oh wow, is it the next Miami? And are we seeing this, like, incredible, uh, rise again out of London," like we have done over the last few years.

   19. RSRishi Sunak6:33

       Yeah. I, look, I- I think so.

   20. HSHarry Stebbings6:35

       Yeah.

   21. RSRishi Sunak6:35

       I think success breeds success. Uh, I think i- as well, given the pace that the tech ecosystem works at, you know, government needs to be responsive to that pace and just constantly show that we're moving forward. And, uh, l- uh, yeah, Andreessen coming is great, lots of people are already here, um, I think things are going really well already. But if I think back, look, this is a country that was at the forefront of the Industrial Revolution. Think of all the things that were invented here in the UK, in steam engines, the forefront of electricity, how we mechanized textiles, I, y- you know, how we built modern roads, the process we're making steel, even the lawnmower saying was another thing, right? I mean, you name it, it was invented here. Look, I- I think we're at the cusp of another period like that, and there's no doubt in my mind that the UK can lead that again, as we did in the past.

   22. HSHarry Stebbings7:24

       I remember I first fell in love with venture when I was 13, and when you said, "Venture in London 13 years ago," it was just like, "Who is this strange child?"

   23. RSRishi Sunak7:31

       (laughs)

   24. HSHarry Stebbings7:33

       So, uh, I took turn from wild for

4. 7:35 – 9:24

   How to Regulate Without Stifling Innovation

   1. HSHarry Stebbings7:35

      sure.

   2. RSRishi Sunak7:35

      Yeah.

   3. HSHarry Stebbings7:35

      Regulation-wise, can I ask-

   4. RSRishi Sunak7:36

      Yes.

   5. HSHarry Stebbings7:37

      ... is something that, you know, I, as an investor, think about a lot, and we worry about actually sometimes stifling innovation, but how do we think about creating a regulatory structure or regulation that actually allows for great innovation and to let London blossom in the way that we think it can, and the UK blossom?

   6. RSRishi Sunak7:53

      So the UK has historically got this right, because we get the balance right between being supportive of innovation to harness all the benefits that it brings-

   7. HSHarry Stebbings8:02

      Mm-hmm.

   8. RSRishi Sunak8:02

      ... but at the same time making sure that we've got appropriate guardrails in place to protect people, businesses, society. And it goes back all the way to The Enlightenment, to the Industrial Revolution. I think it's part of our DNA that we just instinctively know how to get that balance right, and we're gonna do that again when it comes to AI. And I'm confident that we can help shape the global conversation on the guardrails that we need to put in place so that we get the incredible benefits of AI, whether it's in drug discovery, healthcare, education, public services, the economy, but at the same time, we're protecting ourselves against, you know, the obvious risks that it brings. And, you know, I- I'm excited to, as I said, bring together people, as you said, from academia, from the companies, and policymakers together to have that conversation this autumn.

   9. HSHarry Stebbings8:49

      Yeah. You said about the conversation this autumn. Talk to me about that, 'cause we announced it last week, I think it was?

   10. RSRishi Sunak8:53

       Yes.

   11. HSHarry Stebbings8:54

       What- what's the conversation and how's it going now?

   12. RSRishi Sunak8:56

       So, I think what I want to do is, uh, bring together all those people so that we can consider the, the risks-

   13. HSHarry Stebbings9:03

       Mm-hmm.

   14. RSRishi Sunak9:03

       ... and make sure we have a good joint understanding of what the different types of risks are, uh, have a, a joint approach to safety and research and evaluation, and then also a conversation about what the right guardrails are that we need to put in place. Now, in that bucket about research and evaluation, I'm, I'm delighted that the UK's already playing

5. 9:24 – 11:52

   Rishi’s New AI Task Force

   1. RSRishi Sunak9:24

      a leadership role here. Our new task force, AI Task Force, which we should talk about, uh, has £100 million, which mean- means that we're investing more in safety research for AI than any government anywhere in the world, um, and doing so in a way that I think is agile. But also, the- the... we're working with the companies themselves, DeepMind, Anthropic, and, and OpenAI, I'm pleased that they've said that they will give early or priority access to the models so that we can develop the right type of evaluation and research safety, so I think that's a really positive step forward.

   2. HSHarry Stebbings9:57

      And you nearly tripped me up there. AI Task Force, 100 million fund, can you talk to me about that initiative?

   3. RSRishi Sunak10:02

      Mm-hmm.

   4. HSHarry Stebbings10:02

      And also where the funding's actually going.

   5. RSRishi Sunak10:04

      Yeah.

   6. HSHarry Stebbings10:05

      Is it companies? Is it, uh, actually kind of A- AI safety?

   7. RSRishi Sunak10:08

      Yeah.

   8. HSHarry Stebbings10:08

      How do we think about effective deployment?

   9. RSRishi Sunak10:09

      So I think the first thing is this, this task force is a bit different. I think it's reflective of how I approach these things, uh, and the task force is modelled on the vaccine task force. It's a little bit arm's length from government, it will be empowered to move at pace, to do things differently, and I think that's important because as you know probably better than most, right, we- we need to-

   10. HSHarry Stebbings10:29

       Yeah.

   11. RSRishi Sunak10:29

       ... move at pace and someone... I want to find the right person to chair that task force, which we, we haven't announced yet, 'cause that process is still going, who's empowered to do that? And they will make ultimately the decisions, to be honest, about what the best way to allocate the resources are, but a key part of it is going to be safety research. And, uh, you know, I think it's important that governments develop the capability to do research evaluations, safety evaluations, auditing of these large language models. That's something that the companies themselves are already doing, by the way, and I think they all welcome that. Um, I, and I want the- the UK not just to be the k- intellectual home of AI regulation, but also the geographic home, and as I said, we're- we're gonna take a lead in that part.

   12. HSHarry Stebbings11:12

       This is also the largest amount from any other nation though.

   13. RSRishi Sunak11:15

       Yes. And I think, uh, that it is, uh, when it comes to safety research, uh, we will be investing more in this than anywhere else. So I think it's, uh, critical that governments do because, uh, I think we, we're, we're cognizant that AI, yes, it... incredible opportunities that it's gonna bring, but obviously it comes with risks as well. Governments need to be in the leading (laughs) role for making sure we understand those risks, and that's what safety research will, will help us do and make sure that we can protect people against them. And I don't see why the UK can't be a leader in that. You know, if you look at the quality of our AI research base, it's fantastic.

   14. HSHarry Stebbings11:50

       Uh, I completely agree. I think

6. 11:52 – 14:38

   Rishi’s Plan to Attract Talent to the UK

   1. HSHarry Stebbings11:52

      one thing that's, like, crucial to maintaining that from an hopefully early lead is just the talent-

   2. RSRishi Sunak11:57

      Yeah.

   3. HSHarry Stebbings11:57

      ... and the engineering minds that we have in the UK. How do we go about creating an educational infrastructure in institutions and maintaining them in a way that means we can lead the kind of AI race, revolution, whatever we want to call it?

   4. RSRishi Sunak12:08

      I think, you know, that's probably the most important-

   5. HSHarry Stebbings12:10

      Yeah.

   6. RSRishi Sunak12:10

      ... thing, because we're in a perennial war for talent, companies are, countries are, and that's the-

   7. HSHarry Stebbings12:16

      Businesses are.

   8. RSRishi Sunak12:17

      Yeah. And it's-

   9. HSHarry Stebbings12:17

      That's the biggest problem.

   10. RSRishi Sunak12:18

       It's the biggest thing. Any CEO I speak to is, you know, one of the, what they all talk to me about, it's just getting access to talent-

   11. HSHarry Stebbings12:23

       Yeah.

   12. RSRishi Sunak12:23

       Right? So there's...I guess there's two ways to think about it. One is, what are we doing here in the UK? Now, a few years ago is when I was chancellor, I was already talking about AI 'cause... and talking about the benefits it could bring as a general-purpose technology. And what I did was increase our funding for AI master's conversion courses.

   13. HSHarry Stebbings12:40

       Mm-hmm.

   14. RSRishi Sunak12:41

       So this is for people who are coming from non-STEM backgrounds to develop master's level capability in AI, uh, competencies like data science, so we... and to make sure that universities developed those courses. So I massively increased the funding for those-

   15. HSHarry Stebbings12:57

       Mm-hmm.

   16. RSRishi Sunak12:57

       ... and they're working out really well. And we also funded more scholarships 'cause I wanted to make sure people from disadvantaged backgrounds had access to these same educational opportunities in AI, um, so we increased a number of scholarships as well. So that's all happening here domestically, which is great, but we've also got to win the international war for talent-

   17. HSHarry Stebbings13:13

       Mm-hmm.

   18. RSRishi Sunak13:14

       ... as you said. And, and here I'm, I'm making sure that we have what I believe is the world's most competitive visa regime for highly skilled talent. So we've got a new innovator founder visa for people who want to come here and set up businesses. We've got a new scale-up visa for companies that are scaling up so they can bring in the talent that they want, uh, very easily. And then I created something that I'm particularly proud of called the High Potential Individual Visa, that basically says if you graduate from a global top 50 university, you can speak English and you've got an amount to support yourself, just come to the UK. You don't need to have a job. You can come here for a couple of years, figure out what you want to do, and then we'll need to put you on a proper visa, but we just think you're a talented person who can add to our country and we want to have a massive welcome, open for business sign. And that visa is something that I don't... you know, very few, if any, other countries have. So you put all of that together and then we've got a special AI program that's deliberately targeting a hundred of the top global AI talents and trying to attract them here. I think that's a pretty compelling set of, uh, initiatives.

   19. HSHarry Stebbings14:15

       It absolutely is. Can I ask you a weird one, which is, you know, you, you obviously have children. If you were to advise, um, someone coming out into the workforce today, they would sit down with you and say, "What would you advise me, Rishi, entering the workforce today in the UK?" What would you advise them?

   20. RSRishi Sunak14:31

       So my, my kids are, are young and... So I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go-

   21. HSHarry Stebbings14:35

       I'm thinking I can plan ahead.

   22. RSRishi Sunak14:36

       Yeah. No, well, actually I'm gonna... So I'm gonna go, I'm going

7. 14:38 – 17:02

   How We Can Improve the Education System

   1. RSRishi Sunak14:38

      back. So before we even get to that point, something that I'm really passionate about is having more children study maths. And one of my initiatives is to have maths be studied up to 18.

   2. HSHarry Stebbings14:48

      Yeah.

   3. RSRishi Sunak14:48

      We are a global outlier in allowing our children to stop studying maths at 16, and almost all developed countries have the study of maths go all the way to 18 years old. And, uh, you know, I think we need to look at that and we need to think about how we would do that too here. So because for any job, I think increasingly having an understanding of mathematical concepts is really important. Even in the creative industries where you might think, "Gosh, that's got nothing to do with it."

   4. HSHarry Stebbings15:14

      Mm-hmm.

   5. RSRishi Sunak15:14

      Look at all the jobs in the creative industries and post-production, maths is an incredibly important part of it. Um, but also just for participating in modern society and modern life, having strong financial literacy-

   6. HSHarry Stebbings15:26

      Mm-hmm.

   7. RSRishi Sunak15:26

      ... is important. It means you're less likely to be unemployed, that you can earn more, um, that you can have a more fulfilling life. So I'm really passionate. Even earlier, so my kids are 10 and 12 and they know that they're gonna have to study maths all the way up to 18. Doesn't mean everyone has to do maths A-level, by the way, right? There's different forms of maths that will work for different people.

   8. HSHarry Stebbings15:42

      I also think so much goes back to teaching. Most of the times it's like textbook that I remember when I was at school-

   9. RSRishi Sunak15:47

      Yeah.

   10. HSHarry Stebbings15:47

       ... which is longer ago now, but it was like textbook-based and boring.

   11. RSRishi Sunak15:51

       And that's-

   12. HSHarry Stebbings15:51

       AI changes (overlapping dialogue)

   13. RSRishi Sunak15:52

       ... a lot of... I'd say probably the... You know, there, there's lots of things to get excited about when it comes to AI. For me, the thing that I'm probably most excited about is education.

   14. HSHarry Stebbings16:01

       Yeah.

   15. RSRishi Sunak16:01

       'Cause as I talked right at the beginning of your first question about what I learned from my parents and from me, you know, the power of education to transform people's lives is unmatched.

   16. HSHarry Stebbings16:09

       Yeah.

   17. RSRishi Sunak16:10

       And if we can harness AI to provide... well, A, to reduce the burden for teachers, whether it's marking, lesson planning, and make our best teachers even better by helping them, that's great, but also providing personalized individual learning for each pupil, which we know is kind of almost a holy grail, right? Tutoring is incredibly powerful, but it's hard to do that with humans for the obvious cost of education.

   18. HSHarry Stebbings16:35

       For the cost of one teacher, it's incredibly hard.

   19. RSRishi Sunak16:37

       Yeah. Uh, but if, if, if you can have every child have essentially a personalized tutor, could you just imagine how incredible that would be, um, for, for their development and growth and their future opportunities. So that, you know, that's the area where I'm, where I'm perhaps most excited.

   20. HSHarry Stebbings16:53

       I totally agree. Are you ready for a quick fire round?

   21. RSRishi Sunak16:56

       Always.

   22. HSHarry Stebbings16:57

       Okay. So you bring these, I say a short statement, you give me your immediate response.

   23. RSRishi Sunak17:00

       Right. Okay.

   24. HSHarry Stebbings17:01

       Now, uh,

8. 17:02 – 18:14

   Rishi’s Ideal Day

   1. HSHarry Stebbings17:02

      let's start with you've got a day free on the weekend, which admittedly (overlapping dialogue) and I'm Rishi.

   2. RSRishi Sunak17:07

      (laughs)

   3. HSHarry Stebbings17:07

      You've got a day free on the weekend, how are you gonna spend that day?

   4. RSRishi Sunak17:11

      With my kids, who, uh, I don't see enough. Uh, I'd probably, uh, do breakfast with them, uh, is one of my... I'm not a big... I'm not massively into cooking, but breakfast is one of the things I can do. I cook breakfast. Uh-

   5. HSHarry Stebbings17:25

      Wha- what do you cook?

   6. RSRishi Sunak17:26

      I do have... I cook breakfast incl- and my scrambled eggs are important to me.

   7. HSHarry Stebbings17:30

      Oh, wow.

   8. RSRishi Sunak17:30

      Yeah.

   9. HSHarry Stebbings17:30

      Do we have milk? Do we have butter?

   10. RSRishi Sunak17:32

       No. Gosh, no. Definitely butter, no milk. I use the Gordon Ramsay, uh, kind of recommended way to do scrambled eggs, which I, I, I inter- I interviewed him when I was chancellor, as I was doing research for the interview and it came across he has this video which has been watched a gazillion times about how to cook scrambled eggs, which is slightly counterintuitive to how most of us do it 'cause it doesn't have milk-

   11. HSHarry Stebbings17:52

       Okay. (overlapping dialogue)

   12. RSRishi Sunak17:52

       ... and on high heat. Anyway, but, so, I'd recommend it. I do that. Uh, dog. We have, uh, Nova, our, our Labrador, so dog walk time with the kids. Um, and if I've got time to take my wife out for dinner at our favorite, you know, tapas restaurant in the evening, that would be great.

   13. HSHarry Stebbings18:07

       Okay.

   14. RSRishi Sunak18:08

       But this is a very hypothetical day. I haven't had... I haven't had that day in a very long time, just so we're clear.

   15. HSHarry Stebbings18:12

       It was a distant memory.

   16. RSRishi Sunak18:13

       Yeah.

9. 18:14 – 18:25

   Rishi’s Last Meal

   1. HSHarry Stebbings18:14

      You have a last meal. This is very centered around food. Uh, we could be a food discovery network. You have a last meal, what would you choose?

   2. RSRishi Sunak18:20

      Easy. Club sandwich, fries, and a Mexican Coke.

   3. HSHarry Stebbings18:24

      I mean, that is a fantastic

10. 18:25 – 19:40

    The Best Concert Rishi Ever Attended

    1. HSHarry Stebbings18:25

       one. Let's go for, if you could go to any concert, any performer, dead or alive, who would you go to?

    2. RSRishi Sunak18:30

       Cheetah, um...Gosh, uh, let me think. Uh, well, I missed all the Beyonce concerts this week, uh, or this past week in London. Uh, I did have a good time at the Coronation Concert with my wife, which was a, a rare date night and-

    3. HSHarry Stebbings18:42

       You also had a very good reason not to be. (laughs)

    4. RSRishi Sunak18:44

       Yeah, no, that's true. Um, actually, you know, funnily enough, that reminds me. Uh, one of the per- it was the first concert that my wife and I went to was when, uh, was incredibly special, and I would love to go back and do it again. It was in 2005. We, obviously, we weren't married at the time. Uh, it was in 2005. It was in London. It was a Live 8 concert in the park. And I never win anything, but you had to text message, and then it was all done by lottery, and I actually got, I got tickets. So her and I went to that concert, and it literally was everybody. Everyone you can think of played at that concert. I mean, you know, U2, uh, Paul McCartney, and everyone.

    5. HSHarry Stebbings19:19

       And you also get, like, best songs.

    6. RSRishi Sunak19:21

       Yeah. No, no, literally, it was the greatest hits from the greatest performers of all time, all in one afternoon, and the weather was, uh, great. And I mean, that was literally the most extraordinary concert, and it was one of the, you know, I was saying it was the first concert that we went to together, I think. So, um, I'd probably go back and redo, redo that 2005 Live 8 concert.

    7. HSHarry Stebbings19:39

       Smasher the

11. 19:40 – 21:17

    The Best Part About Being PM

    1. HSHarry Stebbings19:40

       day of concerts.

    2. RSRishi Sunak19:41

       (laughs)

    3. HSHarry Stebbings19:41

       What's the best and what's the worst part of being PM?

    4. RSRishi Sunak19:44

       The, (laughs) the, uh, you know, the, actually, probably the best, the best time I feel like I've had in this job is, uh, I, I'm a big cricket fan.

    5. HSHarry Stebbings19:53

       Mm-hmm.

    6. RSRishi Sunak19:53

       I got to play cricket in the garden, Downing Street Garden, with some of the T20, uh, side, the England T20 side. I mean, that, that's, if you're a cricket fan and you get to play cricket with your cricket heroes, that's kind of a neat thing to do. Um, so that was a lot of fun in the garden. Um, but probably on a more, on a more serious level, you know, to a little bit the theme of our conversation, I feel that certainly economically, technologically, we're at an incredibly important time in our country's development. So being prime minister at that time, and being responsible for getting that right, and making sure that we in the UK and all our families can really benefit from that, uh, is, is important. And that's, that's a kind of great privilege, actually. So that, that's been the exciting thing about being PM right now. Uh, and the worst thing is, as I, you touched on it before, it's like, like many people's demanding jobs, uh, you know, when, when they take you away from your family, particularly when you have young kids, that's obviously, that's obviously sad.

    7. HSHarry Stebbings20:50

       Yeah.

    8. RSRishi Sunak20:50

       And like many parents, working parents across the country, you know, not being able to spend enough time with your kids is, is something that you are always saddened by.

    9. HSHarry Stebbings20:58

       We actually had the Aussie cricketer Captain Pat Cummins on the show, which comes out tomorrow. I think our team were trying to injure him at every point in his journey Oh, good. ... these past few years.

    10. RSRishi Sunak21:05

        Yeah. Actually, I was slightly, I was watching, uh, bits of the, um, World Test Championship over the last few days. Um, reasons, reasons for us to be hopeful, but also certainly-

    11. HSHarry Stebbings21:13

        No.

    12. RSRishi Sunak21:13

        ... were, they were in quite good nick. So it's gonna be fantastic.

    13. HSHarry Stebbings21:16

        Penultimate

12. 21:17 – 22:14

    Rishi’s Exercise Routine

    1. HSHarry Stebbings21:17

       one. What does the exercise routine look like?

    2. RSRishi Sunak21:19

       Exercise routine?

    3. HSHarry Stebbings21:20

       Yeah.

    4. RSRishi Sunak21:21

       Um, I think I remember you asked me about this, didn't you, last time we met?

    5. HSHarry Stebbings21:23

       Oh, yeah. And it, and it was Cody on, uh, Peloton.

    6. RSRishi Sunak21:25

       Yeah, Peloton. Yeah. So it still, it still is that.

    7. HSHarry Stebbings21:28

       It's still Cody.

    8. RSRishi Sunak21:29

       I- if I can manage one of those a week, uh, I am, I'm happy. And I've been trying to get back into running, which I haven't done for ages. But I try and also do a, uh, a run on the treadmill once a week, which I've been able to do for the last kind of month or so. So I'm trying to get back into that.

    9. HSHarry Stebbings21:46

       Sorry, do you miss running outside?

    10. RSRishi Sunak21:47

        Uh, the, you know, I, um, I, I, I'm not a big runner outside, actually. I just, the treadmill.

    11. HSHarry Stebbings21:52

        Oh, the treadmill.

    12. RSRishi Sunak21:53

        Yeah. I'm not, 'cause I don't really like running. So the benefit of the treadmill is that you're just kind of forced to run, right? If I'm outside, I kind of, you know, slow down, get bored and tired. So, um, yeah. So, but, uh, not enough exercise. It felt like for a long time, the most exercise I g- I got was walking upstairs from my flat downstairs-

    13. HSHarry Stebbings22:10

        (laughs)

    14. RSRishi Sunak22:10

        ... to my, uh, office. So that wasn't great.

    15. HSHarry Stebbings22:12

        Get the pedometer on.

    16. RSRishi Sunak22:13

        Yeah.

    17. HSHarry Stebbings22:13

        And

13. 22:14 – 23:20

    What does Rishi want his legacy to be?

    1. HSHarry Stebbings22:14

       final one for you. What do you want your legacy to be?

    2. RSRishi Sunak22:18

       I think, I think these always have to be context-specific. And for me, it's important that I restore people's trust in politics. And that means the way I go about this job is different. I want to change how politics is done, so people believe in their politicians, believe in their prime minister, believe in their government, and believe that they're doing the right thing, but also genuinely able to make a difference to their lives. And I go on about these five priorities I have a lot, to halve inflation, grow the economy, reduce debt, cut waiting lists, and stop the boats, because I'm laser focused on delivering those. I said to people that's what I was gonna do, because I believe that's what they want me to do. Those are the country's priorities, and I want them ultimately to feel, "You know, he said he was going to do these things, and he worked hard at it, did it in the right way, and made a difference to us." So, you know, it's obviously a work in progress, and we've got a long way to go, but that's what I'm hard at doing.

    3. HSHarry Stebbings23:12

       Listen, thank you so much for doing this. It's so, uh, fantastic to be able to have this conversation, and so I really appreciate it.

    4. RSRishi Sunak23:17

       No, it's great to spend some time with you. Thanks for coming in.

    5. HSHarry Stebbings23:19

       Fantastic.

Episode duration: 23:20