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SpaceX's Financials Leaked: Is it Worth $2TN | Meta Debuts Muse Spark: Are They Back in the AI Race?

Jason Lemkin is one of the leading SaaS investors of the last decade with a portfolio including the likes of Algolia, Talkdesk, Owner, RevenueCat, Saleloft and more. Rory O’Driscoll is a General Partner @ Scale where he has led investments in category leaders such as Bill.com (BILL), Box (BOX), DocuSign (DOCU), and WalkMe (WKME), among others. ----------------------------------------------- Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:14 Anthropic Unveils Mythos: The Model "Too Good at Hacking" to Release 04:31 Why Mythos is a Quantum Leap in Cyber Risk 07:35 The "Boy Who Cried Wolf": Jason's Critique of Dario Amodei 13:21 The Oppenheimer Moment: Are Founders Using Doom as a Marketing Tool? 17:39 Amazon's $20B Secret: Is NVIDIA's Chip Stranglehold Finally Loosening? 22:02 Claude vs Lovable & Replit: Anthropic Moves into App Building 24:58 The 60% Death Spiral: Why Public SaaS Stocks are Entering a Doom Loop 41:50 Meta Debuts Muse Spark: Alex Wang's First Model from Super Intelligence Labs 47:06 OpenAI's $50B Ad Vision: The Plan to Monetize Intelligence 57:11 Token Maxing: How CIOs are Reclaiming Control Over AI Budgets 01:02:45 SpaceX's Leaked Financials: The Math Behind the $2 Trillion IPO 01:13:59 Thoma Bravo Shuts Growth Equity 01:23:43 Who IPOs First; OpenAI or Anthropic? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3j2KMcZ... Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Follow Harry Stebbings on X: https://x.com/harrystebbings Follow Jason Lemkin on X: https://x.com/jasonlk Follow Rory O’Driscoll on X: https://x.com/rodriscoll Follow 20VC on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/20vchq Follow 20VC on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@20vc_tok Visit our Website: https://www.20vc.com Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://www.thetwentyminutevc.com/con... ----------------------------------------------- Legal Disclaimer: The content of this podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial or investment advice. Any discussion of stocks, public markets, or investment strategies reflects the personal opinions of the speakers and should not be relied upon when making investment decisions. Figures, valuations, and financial data referenced may be estimates or subject to error. Always consult a qualified financial adviser before making any investment decision. The views expressed are those of the individual speakers and do not represent the views of 20VC or its affiliates. ----------------------------------------------- #20vc #harrystebbings #roryodriscoll #jasonlemkin #openai #anthropic #mythos #ai #spacex

Jason LemkinguestHarry StebbingshostRory O’Driscollguest
Apr 16, 20261h 30mWatch on YouTube ↗

CHAPTERS

  1. 0:00 – 1:14

    Anthropic’s Mythos withheld: what “too good at hacking” really means

    The hosts react to Anthropic unveiling Mythos and choosing not to release it publicly due to its hacking capability. They debate whether the fear was justified, and what Mythos implies for the speed and autonomy of security exploitation.

  2. 1:14 – 4:31

    Why Mythos is a step-change in cyber risk: “rifle vs machine gun”

    Rory argues the key difference isn’t whether older models can find bugs, but how quickly and autonomously Mythos can do it. The chapter frames agentic capability as a quantitative leap that turns vulnerability discovery into mass exploitation.

  3. 4:31 – 7:35

    The coming breach wave: AI-built apps, thin auth, and a worsening transition period

    Jason predicts a near-term deterioration in security as more software is built quickly (often by AI) and shipped with basic mistakes. He shares an example breach and argues the ecosystem will eventually adapt, but not before a painful ramp in attacks.

  4. 7:35 – 13:21

    Cyber stocks selling off makes little sense: defense spend should rise

    Rory challenges the idea that better offensive AI should hurt cyber vendors’ valuations. If attackers get “machine guns,” enterprises should buy more defenses, and new workflows/tools will be needed to operationalize AI-based code scanning and hardening.

  5. 13:21 – 17:39

    Jason vs Dario: “boy who cried wolf,” doom messaging, and what’s inspiring

    Jason says he’s fatigued by repeated AI-doom rhetoric and distrusts the framing around withholding Mythos. Rory pushes back that grand narratives can be sincerely held and culturally powerful even when the literal predictions are wrong.

  6. 17:39 – 22:02

    Amazon’s $20B Trainium story: denting NVIDIA without “merchant silicon”

    They unpack claims that Mythos was trained “on Trainium” and what Amazon’s chip business actually is. The conclusion: AWS is substituting some NVIDIA demand internally via bundled cloud services, which matters at the margin but isn’t a direct chip-market challenger.

  7. 22:02 – 24:58

    Anthropic moves toward app-building: threat to Lovable/Replit/Cursor and the “maiming” effect

    Discussion turns to Anthropic competing more directly with vibe-coding and developer tooling startups. Even partial product moves by a frontier model provider could pressure smaller players, without needing to fully replicate their stacks.

  8. 24:58 – 41:50

    Public SaaS “60% death spiral”: why agents must be monetizable on their own

    Jason argues most incumbents are building underpowered, cost-constrained AI features that customers won’t pay extra for. Rory adopts this as a core valuation test: if you can’t charge independently for AI agents, you won’t re-accelerate growth and will be valued as a mature cash-flow name.

  9. 41:50 – 47:06

    Meta’s Muse Spark and Alex Wang’s Super Intelligence Labs: back in the model race?

    They assess Meta’s Muse Spark as “good enough” to signal a return to competitiveness after earlier disappointments. The strategic case is existential: Meta doesn’t want to be dependent on external model vendors, especially while its ad business is thriving.

  10. 47:06 – 57:11

    OpenAI’s ad monetization plan: $100B ads still may not be enough

    The hosts discuss leaked/projected OpenAI ad numbers and why ads feel inevitable for a consumer product at ChatGPT’s scale. Rory argues even a massive ad business may be insufficient relative to OpenAI’s implied scale, making enterprise revenue critical.

  11. 57:11 – 1:02:45

    Enterprise power shift: compute scarcity, CIO “token maxing,” and vendor standardization

    They explore how enterprise AI buying may move from developer-led experimentation to CIO-controlled budgets and token allocations. This could change which vendors win (packaging, procurement, sales motion), and raises the stakes of OpenAI’s relationship with Microsoft.

  12. 1:02:45 – 1:13:59

    SpaceX leaked financials and the $2T IPO math: the “Elon discount rate”

    They analyze SpaceX’s reported revenue and losses and what it implies for a potential $2T valuation. The discussion centers on how much of the valuation depends on future optionality (direct-to-cell, space data centers, etc.) and the assumptions investors make about timing and probability of success.

  13. 1:13:59 – 1:23:43

    Private markets stress: Thoma Bravo exits growth equity and PE’s AI transformation challenge

    They interpret Thoma Bravo shutting its growth equity effort as a retreat to core control-buyout strategy amid stress in mature software. The larger question: can PE owners transform slow-growth SaaS into AI-upside assets, or are many headed toward value traps and leverage pain?

  14. 1:23:43 – 1:30:30

    Who IPOs first and leadership alignment: Anthropic vs OpenAI, CFO/CEO sync

    They close with predictions on IPO ordering and discuss the operational importance of tight executive alignment for public-market readiness. The conversation highlights how leaks, reporting structure, and internal discord can undermine roadshow credibility.

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