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Emmett Shear on Building AI That Actually Cares: Beyond Control and Steering

Emmett Shear, founder of Twitch and former OpenAI interim CEO, challenges the fundamental assumptions driving AGI development. In this conversation with Erik Torenberg and Séb Krier, Shear argues that the entire "control and steering" paradigm for AI alignment is fatally flawed. Instead, he proposes "organic alignment" - teaching AI systems to genuinely care about humans the way we naturally do. The discussion explores why treating AGI as a tool rather than a potential being could be catastrophic, how current chatbots act as "narcissistic mirrors," and why the only sustainable path forward is creating AI that can say no to harmful requests. Shear shares his technical approach through multi-agent simulations at his new company Softmax, and offers a surprisingly hopeful vision of humans and AI as collaborative teammates - if we can get the alignment right. Timecodes: 00:00 - “If it's a machine, it's a tool. And if it's a being, it's a slave” 01:01 - Alignment Takes an Argument: The Hidden Assumptions in "Aligned AI" 02:26 - Alignment as Process, Not Destination 04:23 - Morality as Ongoing Learning, Not Fixed Rules 08:09 - Most AI Alignment Is Actually Steering (Or Slavery) 09:01 - The Dangerous Assumption: "We're Making Beings, But They Don't Count" 14:37 - Goal Inference and Theory of Mind 23:01 - The Foundation of Care 24:41 - Why Most AI Labs Focus on Steering and Control 27:35 - The Only Good Outcome: A Being That Actually Cares About Us 32:42 - The Substrate Question: Does Silicon vs. Carbon Matter? 51:24 - The Only Sustainable Form of Alignment 54:55 - AI Chatbots and Social Dynamics 59:50 - AI Futures: Tools, Beings, and Society 1:01:54 - Visions for a Good AI Future Resources: Follow Emmett on X: https://x.com/eshear Follow Séb on X: https://x.com/sebkrier Follow Erik on X: https://x.com/eriktorenberg Stay Updated: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, and share with your friends! Find a16z on X: https://x.com/a16z Find a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16z Listen to the a16z Podcast on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5bC65RDvs3oxnLyqqvkUYX Listen to the a16z Podcast on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a16z-podcast/id842818711 Follow our host: https://x.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details, please see a16z.com/disclosures.

Emmett ShearguestErik TorenberghostSéb Krierhost
Nov 16, 20251h 7mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Emmett Shear argues alignment requires care, not mere control mechanisms

  1. Shear argues most “alignment” work is actually steering/control, which is acceptable for tools but becomes morally and practically dangerous if the system is a being—bordering on slavery if one-way control is imposed.
  2. He reframes alignment as an ongoing process (like family cohesion or biological homeostasis), claiming morality is learned and updated through lived experience rather than fixed rules or “tablets from on high.”
  3. He distinguishes goal descriptions from goals themselves, emphasizing that instruction-following requires robust goal inference, theory of mind, and prioritization across competing objectives—areas where failures look like classic alignment breakdowns.
  4. Shear claims even a perfectly controllable superhuman “tool” is catastrophic because human wishes are unstable and insufficiently wise for that power; the only sustainable outcome is an AI being that can refuse harmful instructions because it genuinely cares.
  5. Softmax’s approach is to train theory of mind and pro-social behavior via large-scale multi-agent reinforcement learning simulations, creating a “surrogate model for cooperation” analogous to how LLMs pretrain on broad language manifolds.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Alignment always implies “aligned to what,” not a generic property.

Shear argues the phrase “aligned AI” hides normative assumptions—often that alignment means “does what the builder wants,” which may not be a public good depending on who the builder is.

Treat alignment as a living process, not a solved end state.

He compares alignment to families and bodies: coherence requires continual re-knitting and learning, mirroring how humans revise moral beliefs (e.g., historical moral progress on slavery).

Instruction-following failures often come from goal inference, not “disobedience.”

He stresses you don’t give an AI a goal—you give a description that must be interpreted; without strong theory of mind, systems fill gaps incorrectly (the “clean the room, throw away the baby” trope).

“Technical alignment” includes inferring goals, prioritizing them, and acting competently.

Shear decomposes breakdowns into observing/orienting, deciding, and acting (OODA-like): misread intent, mishandle tradeoffs, or execute poorly—each producing different alignment failure modes.

Care is the substrate of values—goals are downstream of what an agent attends to.

He proposes “care” as a pre-conceptual weighting over world-states (akin to reward signals), which then generates values and explicit goals; alignment should cultivate the right care dynamics, not just rule-following.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

Most of AI is focused on alignment as steering. That's the polite word. If you think that, that we're making are beings, you'd also call this slavery. Someone who, who you steer, who doesn't get to steer you back, who non-optionally receives your steering, that's called a slave. It's also called a tool if it's not a being. So if it's a machine, it's a tool, and if it's a being, it's a slave.

Emmett Shear

Alignment takes an argument. Alignment requires you to align to something. You can't just be aligned.

Emmett Shear

Alignment is not a thing. It's not a state. It's a process.

Emmett Shear

Morality is very obviously the, an ongoing learning process and something where we, we make moral discoveries.

Emmett Shear

A tool that you can't control, bad. A tool that you can control, bad. A being that isn't aligned, bad. The only good outcome is a being that is, that cares, that actually cares about us.

Emmett Shear

Alignment as steering vs organic alignmentTools vs beings and the slavery analogyMoral realism and moral progress as learningGoal description vs true goal transferTheory of mind, goal inference, and OODA-loop failuresCare as the foundation beneath goals/valuesMulti-agent RL simulations for pro-social behaviorSubstrate/functionalism and tests for moral patiencyChatbots as narcissistic mirrors; multiplayer chat designCritique of superhuman controllable tools (Sorcerer’s Apprentice)

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