Palantir CEO on Iran, AI Weapons and American Domination | a16z American Dynamism Summit

Alex Karp 0:00 We were the freak show. [rock music] And we spent twenty years for this moment. We're doing it. We're doing it, and I'm sure you're enjoying this as much as I am. I just got three things to say. God bless our troops. God bless America. And gentlemen, start your engines! We are the power that actually has the decisive vote, and that is with military superiority. If Silicon Valley believes we are going to take away everyone's white-collar job, you're [beep] . The most important thing Palantir is doing is to make sure that American warfighters are much more likely to come home. If we are going to outperform the rest of the world, our single advantage is-

Erik Torenberg 1:05 Dr. Karp, it is a pleasure to finally have the OG American dynamism founder on stage with us at the fourth annual summit. Um, I think, gosh, if we had to-

Alex Karp 1:14 Maybe I should do this. [laughs] Like that.

Erik Torenberg 1:16 [laughs] Yes. Um, I think if we had had-

Alex Karp 1:18 For those of you guys who don't get that, those are gang signs.

Erik Torenberg 1:20 [laughs] No, I, I think we all got the, the reference.

Alex Karp 1:24 Yeah, I know some people.

Speaker 1:24 [laughing]

Alex Karp 1:25 Mehdi's in the audience.

Erik Torenberg 1:26 [laughs]

Alex Karp 1:26 He, he doesn't get out much. He's like, "Huh? What is that?"

Erik Torenberg 1:29 This, this is gonna be a great conversation. So I think, uh, if we'd had this conversation seventy-two hours ago, it would've been very different. Um, but of course, there's been a lot of news, and so I wanna get straight to, to the news and what's happening in the world, um, because Palantir is certainly, um, part of that story. So over the weekend, uh, the US and Israel bombed Iran in Operation Epicure. Ayatollah Khamenei is dead. The Middle East is now at war. What do you think the situation means for the future of the West, something you talk a lot about, and the future of America?

Alex Karp 1:58 Well, first of all, I'm delighted to be on stage with you. And, um, you know, for many of you in this audience... By the way, um, I've been talking so much, I'm kind of losing my voice, but I didn't-- I, I would've probably canceled on anyone but you. But-

Erik Torenberg 2:10 Oh, well, that, that means a lot. We're glad you're here. [laughs]

Alex Karp 2:12 It's, uh, it... I love to cancel, by the way, for those of you.

Erik Torenberg 2:14 [laughs]

Alex Karp 2:14 'Cause, like, it's my favorite thing 'cause I, I actually am an introvert. Any excuse to cancel. As, as Palantirians know, it's, uh... [laughs] Yeah. Um, but yeah, you've been such a force, um, in public and behind the scenes for, you know, I think helping people in the d- broadly speaking, defense tech or let America wins or things that are good, uh, broadly defined. Um, and then we also align on something we could talk about later on, like the importance of not putting our youth in straitjackets because they're divergent neurologically-

Erik Torenberg 2:49 Absolutely

Alex Karp 2:49 ... which is a, a passion of, of mine and should be a passion of everyone's, since you could define our wonderful and great country, i- as a country where everyone who was divergent in ideology, thought, religion, or quite frankly, like, uh, uh, neurologically, came to this country to have a better place where they could express their freedom and had the right to, A, express what they thought, which-- And there's a deep link between expressing what you think publicly and privately, First and Fourth Amendment, and being able to think it, and if that doesn't work, being able to defend it with the Second Amendment. Uh, and, uh, the... And last not least, our, our founders, founders, uh, uh, did not structure these rights the way they are in, say, where I lived for a lot of my life in Germany, as rights granted to us by other bureaucrats. We-- They're given to us. They're inalienable from a higher being.

Erik Torenberg 3:46 Yeah.

Alex Karp 3:46 Uh, and, uh, I would just say before I get into, uh, how the world's changed, we have American, uh, warfighters on the battlefield, uh, sa- willing to sacrifice their lives, uh, some of whom have sacrificed their lives. They have families and kids. Uh, the kids and families don't know if their loved ones are coming home. And, uh, you know, we, uh, I know in this room, but we should publicly, privately support them. And people who are not aware or somehow so effing spoiled that they don't realize what these people do for us, we should publicly humiliate them.

Speaker 4:24 [audience murmuring]

Alex Karp 4:25 Uh, and everyone has a role in that. Uh, um, and especially those of us who are riding a crest of, of, of intergenerational, cultural, intellectual courage advantage, which it, which it is to be an American nowadays, uh, should not, obviously should not forget, uh, the warfighter, who are disproportionately, uh, from, uh, the middle of our, our country and disproportionately have gotten screwed. Uh, and, uh, and I'm proud, uh, very proud that at Palantir, uh, you know, we, we get arrows and people... I mean, half the people attacking us, it'd be good if they spent two minutes on Wikipedia at least learning the talking points they're regurgitating.

Erik Torenberg 5:14 [laughs]

Alex Karp 5:14 But, uh, [clears throat] but, um, you know, and there's some legitimate criticisms, uh, of any company. But at the end of the day, the fact is, the most important thing Palantir is doing, and I-- other people in this room are doing, and people like you and other people a-a-adjacent or ancillary to building, uh, uh, more lethal and deadly weapons, is to make sure that American warfighters, uh, are much more likely to come home. And quite frankly, the people who are trying to harm them, uh, know that they won't be coming home. [chuckles]

Erik Torenberg 5:52 Yeah.

Alex Karp 5:52 And that's the way you stop people from attacking us, in my opinion. And then [clears throat]

Alex Karp 5:58 on the, the kind of, um, the leading up to what's going on, but I think the-There are probably people in this room who are wildly supportive, uh, and there are people who aren't. It is hard to deny that America is exerting a deterrent capability that was eviscerated. You, you can like or not like. That's different than ignoring we now have a deterrent capability that no other country appears to have, and that is for, for lots of reasons. And obviously, uh, the warfighter, the people who organize the warfighter, the generals, the leadership, the president. But one advantage that often gets overlooked in a-- for reasons that make no sense is warfighting is technology. You know, I, I spent half my life in, in, in Germany for familial reasons, and then I wrote my PhD there. It, it-- The-- And then the rise of America after World War II, the reason America was able to win World War II were technological advantages. And if you look what happened in, you know, Operation Midnight Hammer, what happened in Venezuela, what's so far happening, uh, uh, in, in, i-in Iran, you see one society just totally dominating. That's our society. Now, you could get into... I, I would ex-- I, I-- I'm int- always in fights with my intellectual friends about it. They're, they're like, "But wouldn't it be better to have a rule, a, a, a law-based system where everyone is equal?" Yeah, sure, in theory. But in this world, it's us or China or Russia.

Erik Torenberg 7:42 Yeah.

Alex Karp 7:43 And I don't know how you guys feel about those decisions, but I think we're doing-- I literally believe we're doing the work of higher-- a higher purpose by making sure, and not just for America, but for the whole world, that we are the power that actually has the decisive vote. And there is only one way to do that, and that is with military superiority. And when I say military superiority, I don't mean that we're arguing on a PowerPoint. It means... But America-- So now you get to what has technology done? Now, again, I think whenever people like me are talking about this, it-- you can't say enough that it's the warfighter and their courage, and I'm not doing that. I'm sitting here. Um, and, you know, and I'm not-- And we have Palantirians all over on... Like, I'm talking to them constantly. So they're doing-- they're putting themselves in harm's way. And, you know, um, uh, I'm-- I am kind of, but not directly. It's mostly all the people who yell at me, and I guess maybe there are some people who want to shoot at me. But, um, it-- The, the, the... If you look at the rise of, like... I-in the, in the lifetime of Palantir, there's been the rise of software, which essentially meant, meant your, you know, software company that is supplying a steak dinner is obviously parasitic, is not cutting it. That kind of-- Those, those companies are being eviscerated. You have the rise of defense tech, and now you have a hybrid software, hardware, AI, where you really need all three. Um, uh, interestingly, from an investment perspective, um, you know, I would say the last company standing before we all have to salute the overlord of the LLM will be Palantir.

Erik Torenberg 9:27 [laughs]

Alex Karp 9:27 But it's mainly-

Erik Torenberg 9:30 We're gonna get into that, I promise. [laughs]

Alex Karp 9:31 But it's mainly because, um, you-- there, there-- it's a-- it's the specificity of, and the security and the orchestration. But none of that has to make any sense to anyone in this room. I'll tell you what, it makes a lot of sense to our adversaries right now. How is America doing this? Now, again, it's specialized ways. It's twenty-five, thirty years of experience in fighting. It's meritocracy. The Department of War is the most meritocratic environment. It integrated in Korea before our society did. Uh, it's-- it, it is the most popular institution and most revered institution, and probably the only institution in America that is actually revered by the American people across every demographic. And it's revered by the American people across every demographic precisely because it's been meritocratic.

Alex Karp 10:21 I-if you were a Black American, uh, you got your break in America by going to the military. If you wanted to be treated fairly, uh, and you were from a group that you felt that... Every demographic has somebody who is in the military whose life was changed and who did something noble and wonderful for America. They also have the experience of coming home and America not sticking up for them. We should change that. Now you get to Silicon Valley. Uh, my one message for-- And again, I, I don't-- I'm-- Without getting into specific people or... 'cause I'm... Like, if Silicon Valley believes we are going to take away everyone's white-collar job, meaning primarily Democratic-shaped, uh, people me- whom I grew up with, highly educated people who went to elite schools or went to schools that are almost elite, who vote for one party, w- and you're gonna screw the military, if you don't think that's gonna lead to nationalization of our technology, you're retarded.

Erik Torenberg 11:25 [laughs]

Alex Karp 11:25 And you might be particularly retarded 'cause you have a one-sixty IQ.

Erik Torenberg 11:29 [laughs]

Alex Karp 11:29 But it's-- You-- This is where that path is going.

Erik Torenberg 11:32 Yeah.

Alex Karp 11:32 Like, you cannot have technologies that simultaneously take away everyone's job and then be perceived... Again, there's a lot of subtlety here behind, behind the curtain. I've been heavily involved in that subtlety. What can be-- where it can be deployed, what can be deployed. There's a difference between US military and surveillance, and despite what everyone thinks, Palantir is the anti-surveillance company. I know your person online thinks that's not true, but every technical expert does, so I end up in every conversation that I don't wanna be in. ButThe, the danger for our industry is that America... You get a, you get a famous horseshoe effect where there's only one thing people agree on, and that's that this is not paying the bills, and people-- and our industry should be nationalized.

Erik Torenberg 12:22 Yeah.

Alex Karp 12:22 And, and so the, the, the societal benefit that is going on in Iran, besides the fact that I think, I suspect the Iranian people feel like, "Finally someone's on my side, and it wasn't the Berkeley faculty that was supposed to like me."

Erik Torenberg 12:37 [laughs] Yeah.

Alex Karp 12:37 Uh, it, it's, uh, um, a, a big lesson for you. Yeah. And so, um, and but then as America, we... And the people who are prominent in the tech industry, you know, we have to find a way to make sure that we're not just popular in Palo

Alex Karp 12:57 Alto.

Erik Torenberg 12:57 Yeah. I wa- I wanna get back to something you just said, which is that, you know, the, it's, it's either us winning or China winning or Russia winning or another country, that it's a zero-sum game. And it feels like the people in this room in Washington really understand that AI is zero sum, but that Silicon Valley doesn't. Silicon Valley doesn't like to think in terms of zero sum. They like to think that everything is a positive sum game. So how would you explain to the people in Silicon Valley who are, again, building the LLMs, you know, building, um, what, what they would say is a brand-new, net-new technology that hasn't existed before and therefore it needs to be treated differently? What would you say to them about this dynamic?

Alex Karp 13:30 Well, I mean, there's... So first of all, it's, it's, um... By the way, I just wanna push back slightly. They do think it's zero sum. They think it's zero sum versus each other.

Erik Torenberg 13:37 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 13:38 So, like, they absolutely are fighting. There will be, like, you know, it's my own rhetoric, but I happen to think it's true. It's gonna be chips, ontology, and I suspect in the end one, one and a half provider. So they pretend they don't think it's zero sum, but then ask them how they feel about their competitor.

Erik Torenberg 13:52 Yeah. That's true.

Alex Karp 13:52 So it's very, very... I mean, these people are fighting very, very hard for the dominant position. So, like, what they don't understand is, in the world, it's zero sum. But I, I actually think the primary issue in the Valley is it's going to be zero sum vis-à-vis you when America decides that, look, okay, I have a... I, I interact with a lot of political figures I have a lot of respect... I think, and some are re- When politicians figure out this is the one winning issue, it is gonna be zero sum.

Erik Torenberg 14:22 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 14:22 It's gonna be your money and your company being zero sum nationalized.

Erik Torenberg 14:27 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 14:27 So that's the part they don't understand. Fe- helping people understand that, you know, either we set the rules or de facto... Like, I'm, I'm much more, I'm much more on p- America should be strong so that we don't have to worry about the enemies than our enemies are w- evil kind of thing, so I'm not super neocon. It seems to be very hard in this culture, as someone who's lived a- abroad a lot of my life, it's very hard in this culture to explain to people that we're in a competitive environment, because things here are so good they don't understand how different it will be and how much we will change and how much the pressure will be on America, not just legally, but militarily and culturally, if we fall behind.

Erik Torenberg 15:11 Yeah.

Alex Karp 15:12 And I, I, I... One of the things that, again, it's... So I, I personally think the better way to get people to change is to, okay, it, it, go... Bring people like that to Iowa, bring them to DC, and explain to our American political leadership why you make a hundred million dollars and why a soldier from Iowa can't explain to his wife he has the best technology.

Erik Torenberg 15:37 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 15:37 And then go across the hall, so let's classically Republican shape, then go across the hall and talk to progressive Democrats about how every one of their constituencies is not gonna have a job. And then leave and imagine what's gonna happen to you.

Erik Torenberg 15:51 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 15:52 Y- you know, the funny thing about those of us who've spent most of our life abroad, like in Germany, which a, a phenomenal culture,

Alex Karp 15:59 we have a much better sense of how fragile this experim- experiment is, America. It could go wrong.

Erik Torenberg 16:05 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 16:05 And it will go wrong if, if all wealth is going to a small number of people, and those people do not appear to be on side.

Erik Torenberg 16:13 Yeah.

Alex Karp 16:13 Now, that perception might... is obviously a caricature. It is a caricature in the sense this is new technology, and you're not gonna be able to use the same kind of framework, and you're gonna need people who appreciate how it's different. And there are real questions about Fourth Amendment protections, like our right to privacy. What is privacy in a world where you could impute what someone's doing at home through technology?

Erik Torenberg 16:36 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 16:36 How, how do you protect our right to have our own thoughts, our own ideas, our own practices at home, our own health records? That... Those are real issues when the technology can also help you to be healthier, live longer, uh, have a higher economic status, potentially, certainly if you're a vocational worker. But so those issues have to be unpacked. And where Silicon Valley is right-

Erik Torenberg 16:59 Mm-hmm

Alex Karp 16:59 ... is you, you're going to need a forum to talk about that that doesn't pretend, you know, uh, large language models is the same thing as m- ma- m- m- machine learning, is the same thing as software, is the same thing as a bullet. They're, they're not.

Erik Torenberg 17:13 Yeah.

Alex Karp 17:13 Um, uh, but, um, but, but, but, but de facto, I, I t- very much believe, um, as a critique of the, uh, like, a economic elite, especially in, in the technical area, there's, there's like, uh, to use an econom... a, a kind of overly academic, uh, a philosophical term, they reify, meaning they turn it into a thing, our rights. But those rights... You know, when I was in Germany, I, I was there, and there were... I spent a lot of time. I did a PhD. Uh, but I... You know, there were a lot of older Germans, and I, uh, I would spend time with them, uh, in the countryside. In the city, of course, they, they didn't know anybody who was a Nazi. In the countryside, they're like, "We were all Nazis." So I would ask them. But one of the more fascinating conversations is why they became Democrats, or not like left right, but capital D. And it was always because it worked. And then the unwinding of it that we don't ask if it unwindsYou know, our... It will n- we will not be protected.

Erik Torenberg 18:15 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 18:16 And it, it's just the dialogue we have currently is not acknowledging what's going to happen politically, what is happening politically.

Erik Torenberg 18:25 Yeah.

Alex Karp 18:25 The, the wealth tax is a derivative of this because everyone knows the wealth tax isn't gonna help the poor. It's just gonna fuck the rich.

Erik Torenberg 18:32 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 18:32 And that's enough to get it done.

Erik Torenberg 18:34 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 18:34 And if, if that's happening, just imagine what's gonna happen when it's like there's gonna be fifty unlikable people with all the money.

Erik Torenberg 18:42 [laughs]

Alex Karp 18:43 A- anybody here like that, and you guys are doing well.

Erik Torenberg 18:46 Yep. No, I, I, I wanna get back to, to kind of the conversation about how, um, how we ensure that the Department of War continues to lead on AI because I think this has been top of mind for everyone in the room for the last forty-eight hours. Um, our adversaries are looking at, you know, contracting wars, um, that are playing out in press releases. You know, what is your view on how we can ensure that we win this AI race against the PRC? If you, if you're giving advice to all the founders and CEOs of, of, you know, the, the, the alum companies-

Alex Karp 19:13 Well, the first thing, part of what I'm doing and pa- well, part of the reason, I mean, besides your charm and importance, w- part of the reason why we have here is-

Erik Torenberg 19:20 [laughs]

Alex Karp 19:20 ... uh, I want... My reputation in the Val- every... You always have reputations. My reputation, which in the rep- I'm not even saying the reputation is true. But in my case, like, I'm viewed as the batshit crazy guy who is often telling you something you don't wanna hear and you may not like but is probably right.

Erik Torenberg 19:40 [laughs]

Alex Karp 19:41 And-

Erik Torenberg 19:42 That's true. [laughs]

Alex Karp 19:42 So, yeah. And that's why I want you to send this first step, we have to... They're not understanding the stakes. And what I-- nothing's gonna happen till people understand the stakes. This will affect you. Now, then the question is, like what Hollywood did, is Hollywood got together... The whole rating system was Hollywood realized, "If we don't do rating, ratings, Washington's going to, and Washington is going to butcher it."

Erik Torenberg 20:10 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 20:11 And, and let's even say Washington doesn't wanna butcher it, but, like, it, it doesn't understand the métier.

Erik Torenberg 20:17 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 20:17 So the first step is everybody... And I'm already on the phone with people saying, "Okay, great. I understand your issue, but you realize the wolves are at the gate, and they already have tasted blood."

Erik Torenberg 20:30 Yeah.

Alex Karp 20:30 Uh, the second step is we have to find ways where we get together and say, "Okay," like i- if you just wanna go through the issues. Yes, there are, you know, using technologies in the context of eviscerating i- uh, Fourth Amendment rights in America is a r- is something left and right in this country actually don't want. It's a caricature to believe that either side wants it. There are people on the... Honestly, I'm in private rooms. There are people on the left who don't care about these issues, who pretend to do it in pub- do in public, but there are people... And there are people on the right who pretend not to care who do care. Both parties have significant coalitions, and the American people cares, care, and it's in our Constitution. But then you have to get, be very granular about what's gonna happen on the battlefield because there, the, the two issues Americans care about are their prosperity and their safety.

Erik Torenberg 21:23 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 21:24 So if the, if, if the two things that Silicon Valley has to figure out i- is what are we gonna-- how are we gonna ethically talk about what's gonna happen to our economy? Uh, in my view, you have-- you could create a lot of prosperity with trade-shaped people.

Erik Torenberg 21:43 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 21:44 Uh, okay, but what is gonna happen to the white-collar workers, and what are we going to do? That, that's one issue. And then we, we're not gonna agree, but we have to have something like a, "We're gonna do these initiatives," just like Hollywood did. And then you're gonna have to have a discussion on the battlefield where, you know, the rebuttable presumption, meaning it doesn't happen, is that the... We are going to do the maximal amount to make sure our war fighters come home safely.

Erik Torenberg 22:13 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 22:13 And if you are sitting in Silicon Valley making an argument that somehow would eviscerate that, or conversely, you're not able to understand what Silicon Valley's saying, meaning there's gonna have to be a medium. Without going into details on all these breakdowns, 'cause I was in the middle of it, and I wanna stay in the middle of it, there, there are substantive issues, and there are cultural issues.

Erik Torenberg 22:34 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 22:35 If we could get rid of the cultural misunderstanding, we could get pretty close to agreements here.

Erik Torenberg 22:40 Yeah.

Alex Karp 22:40 But you, you're dealing with worlds that never, ever, ever talk-

Erik Torenberg 22:44 Yes

Alex Karp 22:44 ... and don't have an ability to talk to each other.

Erik Torenberg 22:46 Yeah. Well, and you've been building a bridge between these cultures for twenty years. I mean, that's what's so interesting. I mean, that's in some ways why we have this conference is to bring together people who speak two different languages-

Alex Karp 22:55 Mm-hmm

Erik Torenberg 22:55 ... very different value sets, and try to get them aligned. I, I'd love your advice for these founders who maybe are new. You know, it's sort of like that meme, the first time meme, uh, with the Coen Brothers film, you know, where it's like a lot of these people are having their first conversations with the Department of War, or they don't-- or they, maybe they don't have any family in the military. Maybe they've met a-- never met a war fighter. What is your advice to some of these CEOs who are maybe new to these conversations that you've been having for, for twenty years now?

Alex Karp 23:19 Well, the best thing you could do is go to Iowa or go to a base and have a con- Like, y- I don't think... Look, put it this way. Um, maybe the first time... This is probably not PG, but you know, I'm happily not married, not divorced, so don't follow how I live, but you don't have to-

Erik Torenberg 23:39 [laughs]

Alex Karp 23:39 Maybe if you're gonna meet somebody, you really wanna impress it. Maybe not... Maybe you have an advantage if it's your third girlfriend or boyfriend, not your first. Like, go have a conversation with somebody. Like, if you're going to meet a general or somebody like that, and you've never talked to somebody who's actually done something on the battlefield-

Erik Torenberg 23:58 Mm-hmm

Alex Karp 23:59 ... or someone who has family who's done something on the battlefield, and you don't have any... And because of that, you don't have an ability to empathize with their perspective, that's probably a huge mistake.

Erik Torenberg 24:12 Yeah.

Alex Karp 24:12 And I... That's probably gonna backfire. Last, secondly, though, you have to be honest to where-- about where your aptitude is.

Erik Torenberg 24:19 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 24:19 Like, you know-Um, Silicon Valley tech builders broadly defined hardware, software, AI. I would say we build in the military context, uh, essentially, uh, s-software scaffolding much more like in a weird way, more, more like hardware software, but it's in software, uh, managing L-LLMs. Um, uh, it, it is-- The single biggest mistake people make in this area is because they're intelligent in one area, they assume they're intelligent in all areas. And a big failure mechanism in the valley is every valley person is forced to present as if they're the smartest in all areas at all time.

Erik Torenberg 25:02 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 25:03 That's like if you don't know who the mark is, you're the mark.

Erik Torenberg 25:06 Yeah.

Alex Karp 25:06 Like, if you think you're the smartest peop-- So I, I'm dyslexic, and I think one of the reasons I've done so well is I do think I'm one of the better people at certain things, at least I believe it, and I know I'm not at everything. It's a very small... It's like... But a failure mode for the valley is I'm the smartest on every issue. I-- For example, I need to be the person negotiating this contract.

Erik Torenberg 25:28 Yeah.

Alex Karp 25:29 What if you have no aptitude for that?

Erik Torenberg 25:30 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 25:31 Just 'cause you can do X does not mean you've imputed high aptitude at Y. In fact, it's very unlikely it's true.

Erik Torenberg 25:38 Yeah. That's-

Alex Karp 25:38 It's, it's almost certain that you're just not smart enough to realize how bad you are.

Erik Torenberg 25:43 That's probably one of the most important lessons for, for company builders

Erik Torenberg 25:46 in the room. I actually... I, I wanna, um, end the conversation on Palantir is the OG American dynamism company. Um, I think a lot of our founders in this room are indebted. They've worked for you. They've, um, you know, built their playbooks inside of Palantir. They've built new companies that, you know, are, are epic in their own right, but they started at Palantir in many cases. And so I wanna dive into... You, you brought up the neurodivergent fellowship. It's one of my favorite things you've ever done. You've done a lot of great things, but I think it's, it's one of the most extraordinary, um, stands that you've taken in the company. But you've always looked for people who are different and somehow cultivated them and brought together people who are Democrats, Republicans, on the right, on the left, people who are of all walks of life. How do you lead such a diverse group of people, especially at scale, like at the scale you are?

Alex Karp 26:32 Well, I mean, it's always hard to know when you're reas-- Like I, I, I view myself as an artist, so you're really... It's like, well, how do you create the art? And it's funny because I, I mean, I... Look, I, I like the freedom money gives me, and I, I certainly don't wanna like do some bullshit philanthropy to prove that I'm good when-- because I did something bad 'cause I think what we do is, uh, very important. Um, but it's like at the end of the day, it's like an artistic thing. But, you know, I had... It's always helpful. I had... My parents are among the most talented people I've ever met, and I feel, they don't agree with me, that, you know, like they should have... They could... Like it's kind of weird. I'm so famous, put it that way, [chuckles] from... And, uh, um, I, uh, um, uh, I, I... And then there's the American thing where we are-- I really believe in the magical, liberating, inalienable right for all of us to be individuals, and that's what I see as particularly moral and special in the world. I don't like these things that... Like I've, I've been famously anti-woke, but in-- The thing I find offensive about it is actually that it's people pretending to be different while all being the same. And so I don't like, uh... So I tend to gravitate towards people who are unique, and yeah, I don't really care their politics. I care about like their ability to think and do. Um, there is an aptitude thing where can you recognize somebody who is truly unique in something you've not done yourself is, uh, just something you're born with. Um, I, I do think it's a form of neurodivergence, like outlier IQ is a... In a certain way it's not that different than being autistic. Like you just can't... You're not gonna, you're not gonna decomp a problem the way somebody who is all just normal smart will.

Erik Torenberg 28:38 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 28:39 Um, and I find that very, very charismatic. The trick to doing it is you have to... It's this very hard thing where somebody who is the best... I, I believe the Palantirians, while managed at Palantir, and sometimes in many, in most cases, presumably after at Palantir, I am helping them to express something that only they can do at that moment. And if you look at our products and what we've done, it is actually true. Even what we're doing in, in like right now i- all across the Middle East, and obviously in America, each single product at each single part was built by the one person in the world that could have done it. But that-- And then I have to somehow get them to do things that they don't actually think are valuable-

Erik Torenberg 29:25 Mm-hmm

Alex Karp 29:25 ... but on their terms, and that's basically my job. Because at that level of aptitude, you can't just say, "Do this, idiot," 'cause they're like, "Why would I do that? You're the idiot."

Erik Torenberg 29:34 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 29:34 Uh, and so, um, and, and then what I think is very special about the Palantirians, ex-Palantirians, and current Palantirians is when you're at Palantir, you're not learning to, to actually follow my playbook.

Erik Torenberg 29:50 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 29:50 You're learning to follow your playbook, where I'm inserting some things that may not have occurred to you, maybe you don't know I'm doing that, to make sure that your playbook gets rid of your dyslexia, basically. I'm anti-dyslexifying your playbook.

Erik Torenberg 30:04 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 30:04 It... But around you. And if you take like the... I don't know, there's so many really important ex-Palantirians. What you'll see is they're iconoclastic people, and they're not going to build the same company Palantir was. They're also not gonna build the same company of the next person who leaves Palantir, and that's why they play such a disproportional role. And at the end of the day, that's why Palantir is likeplaying such a big role because like Foundry, PG, Apollo, Ontology, uh, the management of Ontology, Maven, which is like, you know, we've just like been able to target in a way no other country can. It's like the other countries are like, "What the happened here? Like we were thinking Afghanistan. Like what is this?"

Erik Torenberg 30:49 Yeah.

Alex Karp 30:49 Meaning our retreat, like-

Erik Torenberg 30:52 Mm-hmm

Alex Karp 30:52 ... meaning and like, like America has reestablished deterrence.

Erik Torenberg 30:56 Yep.

Alex Karp 30:57 That actually just happened. It's happened in the last year.

Erik Torenberg 31:00 Mm-hmm.

Alex Karp 31:00 Like that right, left, center, y- I don't care what party you're in, in private, obviously you can't say this in public. In private, that is a phenomenal asset that America now has that it did not have, and there are lots of reasons for it. But a one, maybe not the most important, is a concatenation of the most unusual, in some cases otherwise maybe not fully functional talent, built around building something that was an absolutely scandalous, unpopular dream rejected by many people called Maven. And that's how this country... And by the way, if we are going to outperform the rest of the world, uh, our single advantage is to augment neurodivergent, i- highly individual people to be their absolutely unique best and protect their First, Second, Fourth, and Fifth Amendment rights so that they don't get screwed.

Erik Torenberg 31:57 Yeah, absolutely. Well, again, the OG American dynamism founder, thank you so much for all you've done for the country.

Alex Karp 32:04 Thank you. [audience applauding] [outro music]