Zoom Head of Product: How We Build Product

1. 0:00 – 4:51

   Zoom’s pandemic hypergrowth: revenue surge and product org scaling

   1. AGAakash Gupta0:00

      Today we're gonna talk about how Zoom took over the world, became a $4.5 billion company with over 200 PMs.

   2. JBJohn Beckmann0:06

      Zoom, during the pandemic, grew from one to four billion in revenue. We grew to 7,000 employees. We grew our product team from, uh, just over 20 to north of 200. I joined Zoom in January of 2020, so right before COVID started. And by March, obviously things were going really, really, really quickly.

   3. AGAakash Gupta0:23

      Take us behind the scenes there. How did it work when you guys had to institute that three-month feature freeze?

   4. JBJohn Beckmann0:29

      Yeah, I mean, that was Eric's leadership, was daily tiger team meetings with the E-staff to review issues, marshal all the resources we needed to, to move as quickly as we could.

   5. AGAakash Gupta0:37

      So you mentioned $4.5 billion. That's a crazy number, right? What's the biggest mistake you guys made during that pandemic growth period?

   6. JBJohn Beckmann0:44

      Sometimes it takes the same amount of time to just think slightly differently about something that might last a little further or scale a little bit better. Especially with the AI front, we're growing our AI usage by almost 60% on a quarter-over-quarter basis. Our operating cash flow is still really, really strong and growing at 22% as well.

   7. AGAakash Gupta1:00

      You basically have like a, uh, live transcription going, and then you probably hook up into like a OpenAI API to like answer questions or something like that, or how did you guys build that?

   8. JBJohn Beckmann1:08

      Yep, yep, it's something along those lines, right? So you have to turn on the AI so that we do get the transcript, and then the transcript can be leveraged to provide those types of tools. And then when the AI is enabled as well, that's also the tool that we use to generate the meeting summary, which is something that shows up after the meeting is over.

   9. AGAakash Gupta1:21

      Was there a time when you made a mistake that you would look back and say, "That could've been done better"?

   10. JBJohn Beckmann1:26

       Probably a lot of the mistakes just came from trying to deal instantly and as quickly as we could with many, many issues. If I were in that situation again, do my best to try and insert some of that type of thinking, but-

   11. AGAakash Gupta1:36

       If you had to redesign Zoom from scratch for 2025, what would it look like? Really quickly, I think a crazy stat is that more than 50% of you listening are not subscribed. If you can subscribe on YouTube, follow on Apple or Spotify podcasts, my commitment to you is that we'll continue to make this content better and better. And now on to today's episode. We have John Beckmann. He heads up webinars and live events product for Zoom. John, welcome to the podcast.

   12. JBJohn Beckmann2:10

       Thank you. It's good to be here.

   13. AGAakash Gupta2:12

       How big is Zoom today?

   14. JBJohn Beckmann2:14

       Uh, Zoom at the moment is a little bit north of $4.5 billion in revenue, which a lot of people don't know, uh, which is a, a pretty big number. Um, we're over 7,000 employees, uh, which is quite a bit of growth since, um, pre-COVID days and our IPO. Uh, and you know, we've got a lot of exciting things going es- especially with the AI front. We're, uh, growing our AI usage, um, by almost 60% on a quarter-over-quarter basis. Um, our operating cash flow is still really, really strong and growing at 22% as well, so there's a lot of metrics we're really excited about.

   15. AGAakash Gupta2:52

       So the metric that you didn't mention is that revenue growth rate. That's in that single-digit growth rate. And sometimes I hear people saying, "Hey, is Zoom getting over-bloated with too many features?"

   16. JBJohn Beckmann3:07

       Uh, well, that is, uh, I suppose in the eye of the beholder. I mean, that's a, a risk that all products run when they, uh, get more mature. But, um, you know, our, our founder and CEO, Eric, is always preaching the gospel of, uh, simplicity and, uh, usability, and so we're constantly reviewing all aspects of the meeting experience and all of our products' experience to make sure that we're maintaining that, that usability and trying to strike the balance between functionality and, and usability.

   17. AGAakash Gupta3:37

       So for over three and a half years, you led the meetings team. Can you give us a story of when you guys simplified the UX, or how were you guys doing that really specifically?

   18. JBJohn Beckmann3:48

       Uh, sure. Um, I think one example that is, is pretty interesting is actually around the raised hand feature, which some people might not really think all that much about. Um, but video conferencing is a very, very psychological product where people are looking at themselves and looking at each other, and this raised hand feature really became, um, a source of a lot of, of feedback. And, um, we did things like, uh, understanding the order in which those raised hands, uh, came, worrying a lot about how to dismiss the raised hand once the question was answered, and allowing the host to manage those raised hands, and that's all really reflective of going pretty deep on what's a simple feature, but it matters a, a, a great deal in, in meetings where you're trying to manage people, uh, asking questions.

   19. AGAakash Gupta4:35

       That's one I use a lot. That's super interesting.

   20. JBJohn Beckmann4:37

       Mm-hmm.

   21. AGAakash Gupta4:38

       So you mentioned $4.5 billion. That's a crazy number, right?

   22. JBJohn Beckmann4:41

       Mm-hmm.

   23. AGAakash Gupta4:41

       And a lot of that growth came during the pandemic. I think you guys went from something like one billion to like three or four billion in that period.

   24. JBJohn Beckmann4:51

       Yeah.

2. 4:51 – 7:28

   The three-month feature freeze and daily “tiger team” execution model

   1. AGAakash Gupta4:51

      What's the biggest mistake you guys made during that pandemic growth period?

   2. JBJohn Beckmann4:57

      Uh, oh gosh. Well, um, you know, my perspective is we were this company, I joined Zoom in January of 2025-- uh, of 2020, so right before COVID started. And by March, obviously things were going really, really, really quickly, and that's where we, I think, in very short order attained that four billion, uh, run rate that you, that you referenced. And of course, on that growth path at the time, uh, in the first half of 2020, you know, the whole world transitioned to using Zoom. And it was really, really exciting, but also really, really stressful. Uh, and you know, we don't think of it so much more as mistakes as sort of trying to keep up what-- with what was a really, really unique situation. And I think what we did is, is listen very closely and react very, very quickly. Um, you know, I was on a part of leading a effort to focus on, um, some of the challenges we had during COVID for a, a three-month period where it was, you know, feature freeze on anything other than, uh, what was going on in the market. And so-

   3. AGAakash Gupta6:00

      Wow

   4. JBJohn Beckmann6:00

      ... we were trying to, you know, address the needs of education customers that were all trying to go online. We were, um, building security features to, uh, help people control, uh, access to their meetings and, uh, all sorts of things like that. So I'm reallyYou know, proud of that phase. Uh, on the product side, it's, it's pretty interesting as a longtime enterprise software person, it's not often you have that sense of mission, uh, and the sense of really sort of helping the world. But certainly at that time period, and probably for another year or two, that was the case at, at Zoom. So, uh, it was pretty terrific.

   5. AGAakash Gupta6:35

      [lip smack] Can you take us behind the scenes there? How did it work when you guys had to institute that three-month feature freeze? Was it Eric, you, engineering lead, all in a war room looking at the situation with new features? How did it come about? Because that's an awfully long time.

   6. JBJohn Beckmann6:50

      [lip smack] Uh, yeah. I mean, that was Eric's leadership, um, sort of made it very straightforward. You know, everybody's eyes were all on the same, same list of things. Um, and my boss, the CPO at the time, had asked me to help basically project manage that across our product portfolio. And, you know, tactically, what it looked like was, was daily tiger team meetings with the E-staff to review issues and, uh, marshal all the resources we needed to, to move as quickly as we could. It was really like, uh, a great forcing function and focusing, uh, function that, um, aligned sort of everybody in the s- in the same direction.

3. 7:28 – 9:25

   What it’s like to lead product in crisis-scale mode

   1. AGAakash Gupta7:28

      The last time I had one of those was actually at the same time period in the world, COVID scaling up. I was working on Fortnite, and, uh, at the time, we were putting on these series of live concerts. So we did this concert with Travis Scott, and we were trying to increase the amount of concurrent users we had. 28 million people tried to come in. We were only able to let 21 and a half million people come in. And I remember Tim, the CEO, basically did the same thing that it sounds like Eric did, daily tiger teams. For people who haven't been behind the scenes on that, what was your life like as a product leader? How are you preparing for those daily tiger team meetings? Who was in your close circle helping you prepare and make sure you had the right progress?

   2. JBJohn Beckmann8:11

      [lip smack] Uh, I mean, it was extremely collaborative. Um, you know, when you're, when you're doing daily tiger teams, there's not necessarily a lot of prep because you're spending most of the time between those meetings actually executing. Um, I did have my team of PMs that would, uh, help and, um, you know, help with any project that we had going. I was working very, very closely with our CPO on all of these initiatives. Um, and so, you know, it was more providing updates sort of real-time and as opposed to preparing like you might ordinarily do on something with a, a slightly lower cadence. Um, but you know, we-- One of the things that is truly, truly amazing is how Zoom scaled during that time. And of course, when COVID hit everything, all the metrics went through the roof. But, um, the most impressive thing is the platform, the number of users just shot through the roof and everything kept working. You know, the, the platform was really built for scalability. Um, and Eric has always said, you know, building just a video interface is, is not the hardest thing in the world. Uh, building one that can handle billions and billions of minutes every day is actually quite a challenge. So, um, it's almost like we didn't have to worry about that, and we could focus on the other issues, which was great.

4. 9:25 – 14:20

   Scaling systems: tracking avalanches of requests and upgrading PM tooling

   1. AGAakash Gupta9:25

      If you were coaching a product leader who's going through a crazy scaling phase like that, what would be your advice to them?

   2. JBJohn Beckmann9:34

      [lip smack] Um, well, uh, let's see. I would start really, really, really thinking about how you, um, how you track all the things that you need to get done. And it's not-- Uh, by that, I don't just mean a to-do list. What I mean is things start coming at you in, in avalanche-type waves of asks and requests, whether it's feature requests or bugs you need to fix, et cetera. And so I tried to create this system that bucketized things by groups and then kept on digging, uh, further down and then had a way of keeping track of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of things. So in that particular situation where you're scaling at that rate, um, I think putting those systems in place, uh, for yourself to just manage is really, really important. Uh, and then you quickly have to transition to looking at scaling all of the different channels, right? How do you handle... We, we got thousands of feature requests for meetings in a six-month time span during COVID. How do you handle that internally for the systems? You know, just, just keeping them, you know, tracked somewhere, let alone prioritized. Um, how do you handle all the feedback that is coming in that is not feature requests? Um, what parts of the UI might need to scale when, you know, all the numbers kind of go up? And so, um, thinking really quickly about those systems, uh, even on the product management side, we went from not really needing a tool to, um, start looking at the tooling we were using for roadmap planning and communication. Uh, and that happened very, very quickly because we, we had to 'cause we were scaling up. So, um, ideally, either you or, or somebody can think about those issues while you're also sort of putting out fires. And of course, I'm talking about what is a fairly unique and extreme scaling scenario that, uh, you know, it's a nice problem to have and, and lots of companies do have it, but it's, it's not that common to, to scale that quickly.

   3. AGAakash Gupta11:30

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   4. JBJohn Beckmann13:35

      Uh, lots of times. [laughs] But, um, sort of, uh, if I had to sort of identify more of a theme than an individual instance, I think it would be even when you're scaling that fast, um, try and think about those things that I just, just talked about. Um, probably a lot of the mistakes just came from trying to deal instantly and as quickly as we could with many, many issues. And sometimes it takes the same amount of time to just think slightly differently about something that might last a little further or scale a little bit better. Um, so if I were in that situation again, which hopefully we're not as a, as a planet, but, um, I would, I would do my best to try and insert some of that type of thinking but...

5. 14:20 – 15:16

   Post-pandemic reality: valuation swings, layoffs, and focusing on controllables

   1. AGAakash Gupta14:20

      So after that amazing pandemic growth-

   2. JBJohn Beckmann14:22

      Yeah

   3. AGAakash Gupta14:23

      ... I think Zoom kind of became the poster child for having issues with their valuation having been overinflated-

   4. JBJohn Beckmann14:31

      Mm-hmm

   5. AGAakash Gupta14:31

      ... seeing the stock price decrease, and even having to do some layoffs. For you as a product leader, how do you handle that?

   6. JBJohn Beckmann14:40

      Well, I-- You try and focus on the things that you can control. Um, we can't control, uh, certainly what, what COVID was, uh, uh, causing in the world and with Zoom. We can't control the s- the stock price, et cetera. Uh, what we can control is, um, trying to continue to build the best product we can, uh, listen really, really closely with our customers and try and innovate as quickly as we can. 'Cause that, in the long run, is always gonna be the answer to, to whatever problem you have, whether that's existing products or trying to, trying to meet new needs with, with new products.

   7. AGAakash Gupta15:12

      I think that's the critical part, right, is being human to human.

   8. JBJohn Beckmann15:15

      Mm-hmm.

6. 15:16 – 16:09

   AI Companion as Zoom’s biggest recent product impact (meeting summaries, Q&A)

   1. AGAakash Gupta15:16

      Now I wanna shift over a little bit. Since those layoffs, I think you guys have been doing quite well. What do you think is the most impactful thing you guys have shipped since then?

   2. JBJohn Beckmann15:27

      Um, well, I think the, the AI Companion is probably gonna be at the top of the list. And AI Companion is, um, an AI capability that we have that does a lot of things, but meeting summary is probably the, the top of that list. And we have the best meeting summaries in the world. They're available right after a meeting, and, um, I use them all the time. If I can't go to meetings, I can read the meeting summary, I can follow up, and that capability is just continuing to evolve with the types of summary and the formats and, and the output of that. So I think that's really the most impactful thing. And, and that's really how AI is gonna probably drive, drive meetings, uh, you know, forward.

7. 16:09 – 18:55

   AI avatars and authenticity: when they help vs when they’re overhyped

   1. AGAakash Gupta16:09

      What do you see as the future for AI in meetings? Are we gonna have AI avatars attending meetings for us?

   2. JBJohn Beckmann16:16

      Um, I mean, I think it's gonna be a mix of things. Um, yes, maybe. Um, I think what'll be important is that people just know what's going on. Um, if you have the ability to send, uh, an avatar of yourself in your stead, then other people should know that, and in some cases, that can work. Uh, in other cases, it's not gonna work quite as well. And so, um, I think it's gonna be a, a, a mix of things. I think a lot of the power of AI is gonna come from leveraging the content of a meeting where so much rich activity happens, um, important discussions, important decisions, action items, and continually leveraging that meeting content, uh, to make your workflow go faster and more efficient, I think, is, is really the important part. People talk a lot about the AI avatars and all that, um, which I think will inevitably be part of it. You're already, you know, seeing some, some versions of that. I've got, uh, sort of more AR/VR-like avatars that are already available, um, and have been for a while. Uh, so it'll be a mix of things.

   3. AGAakash Gupta17:17

      Are AI avatars overhyped right now?

   4. JBJohn Beckmann17:20

      Um, I'm not sure how hyped they are actually, to be honest. Um, I guess, I guess my comment would be, uh, to share a little bit about both my own use and what we've learned a little bit inside of, of Zoom is, you know, when you're in a lot of meetings all day long, sometimes, you know, you need a break from the video. And as, uh, as others in the meeting, they really, really, really appreciate an avatar that has some movement, uh, to just a video off. And psychologically, that's much, much better for other people in the meeting. And so if you need a break for a little period of time, I think that's really where the AI avatars, I think, are, are the most powerful. That's what I've, I've seen and, and experienced myself.

   5. AGAakash Gupta18:03

      Yeah. When I was a director or VP of product, I literally was triple booked from, like, eight to five.

   6. JBJohn Beckmann18:08

      Yep.

   7. AGAakash Gupta18:08

      There was no time for lunch-

   8. JBJohn Beckmann18:10

      Mm-hmm

   9. AGAakash Gupta18:10

      ... for bathrooms, but you still have to dial into the meeting. So is that the time to use an avatar?

   10. JBJohn Beckmann18:16

       Um, well, I wanna be clear. There's, there's different kinds of avatars. There's an avatar when you're not there at all, and they're, you know, attending the meeting on your behalf. That's one thing. I'm talking about, you know, if I were to just, instead of have my face here, have an avatar, and if my video's still on, then that avatar will actually move the way I'm moving my head. Uh, if I have my video off, then we sort of create someSome motion in the avatar, et cetera. Uh, but all those use cases you mentioned are, you know, very human examples of what it's like to not have a break to make lunch or go to the bathroom. And, uh, those are, are very, very powerful uses of avatars in meetings.

8. 18:55 – 20:55

   Zoom’s shift toward webinars, events, and production-grade broadcasting

   1. AGAakash Gupta18:55

      So you personally shifted from the meetings teams to webinars and live events. But I think also Zoom has made this big shift into broadcasts and live events.

   2. JBJohn Beckmann19:06

      Mm-hmm.

   3. AGAakash Gupta19:06

      How is that shift going?

   4. JBJohn Beckmann19:08

      Uh, it's going really, really well. You know, Webinars is a product that we've actually had for a very, very long time, well, uh, pre-COVID, that is closely tied to meetings. Uh, and it is continuing to grow and is, uh, the market leader in that space. During COVID, we, um, moved in the direction of, of larger, more complex events and a more complex, uh, or advanced e-events platform. And we have, uh, Zoom Events right now, um, both growing really, really well. Uh, it's very clear that there's a lot of use cases, marketers, educators, uh, trainers, all need this capability of, um, communicating at scale. And, um, that can take different forms, but we really support, uh, quite a range of use cases there. The Events platform is more geared towards, um, advanced customization and branding and teamwork collaboration, and running a regular webinar program. We've got on-demand capabilities that we've built in, so you could build landing pages with video content of previous events and upcoming events. Um, and so that's all, all growing really well. Uh, and we're also getting a lot deeper into the pro production aspects. So I like to think that we offer this range, a spectrum of capabilities, where most people in a webinar just wanna do the basic webinar, and they don't have skills around production. Uh, we have a great new feature we launched a year and a half ago called Production Studio, which is sort of a simplified version of pro production. And then, um, we also have these great tools from a company we acquired called Liminal, and those are getting a lot more advanced with the pro production stuff. And then we have integration with the major hardware and software platforms that are out there. So if you're a, a professional who puts events on for a living, you know, we supply you with everything you need to use Zoom to turn those events into something really, really special.

9. 20:55 – 23:13

   Async communication and Zoom Clips: balancing live meetings with video messages

   1. AGAakash Gupta20:55

      A lot of people are talking about the future of meetings, and they're talking about async meetings. Can async replace live meetings?

   2. JBJohn Beckmann21:05

      Uh, I don't think it's a question of replacing. I think it's a question of, um, having a number of tools to meet a number of needs. Uh, without a doubt, the live meeting [chuckles] with no avatars, et cetera, is a very, very important use case. And like I talked about with avatars, there are cases where, where that's important. Um, but there's also a huge power in async. And I'm-- When you say async meetings, I'm not 100% sure what you're talking about. Um, the thing I did right after I-

   3. AGAakash Gupta21:35

      Things like clips.

   4. JBJohn Beckmann21:37

      What's that?

   5. AGAakash Gupta21:37

      You know? Things like clips.

   6. JBJohn Beckmann21:37

      Yeah.

   7. AGAakash Gupta21:37

      Loom videos.

   8. JBJohn Beckmann21:37

      Yes.

   9. AGAakash Gupta21:38

      It feels like everyone's saying: Why is this a meeting? This should be a Loom video.

   10. JBJohn Beckmann21:43

       Yeah. So the, the-- Right after I, uh, I stepped away from running the meetings team, I actually went back to being in IC and built Zoom Clips, which is, uh, uh, our, you know, async video product. And it's doing really, really well. We use it, uh, certainly internally a ton, and it's seen some great growth. Um, and I think that's a really powerful way to communicate because it's a very, very efficient use of video and screen share to communicate visual concepts, uh, that you just can't really do effectively in, in tasks. So we use it in communication. We use it in, uh, building product requirements. Um, you know, to-- So to answer your original question, it's not a question of replacing. I think it's just you might find yourself striking a different balance on which tools you use in which scenarios.

   11. AGAakash Gupta22:27

       What part of Zoom's product is still stuck in 2020 and needs an overhaul?

   12. JBJohn Beckmann22:33

       [laughs] Uh, I don't know if I'd describe anything as being stuck in 2020 so much. Uh, I would just say that like any company that is growing as fast as we were and has as many products as, as we do, uh, you know, we've got our share of, of debt in various places like anybody. Uh, and we're constantly working to, to up-upgrade those. So that's probably how I would answer that. I, I don't know if anything's stuck in, in 2020. If there's areas that really need uplift, Zoom mobilizes very, very quickly and, and we address those.

10. 23:13 – 28:41

    How Zoom captures and operationalizes customer feedback at scale

    1. AGAakash Gupta23:13

       What is your feedback system? How do you guys collect customer feedback per internally?

    2. JBJohn Beckmann23:18

       Uh, we do it in a number of ways. Um, we've got everything from, uh, a formalized program of taking in feature requests from customers and, um, triaging those, et cetera, and then meeting with the team that does that. Uh, we do have a lot of, um, qualitative surveys that are in the product that we send out and review on a regular basis. Um, Zoom, as a very, very well-known brand, we get a huge volume of, uh, comments in public fora and social media, so we have a team that, uh, reviews that and parses that. We've got a really robust and growing Zoom community where all our customers are on, and there's tons of feedback coming in there. Um, all product people at Zoom are brought into conversations with customers, uh, sort of on a live ad hoc basis. And then, of course, we've got Zoom Chat, which is our enterprise chat tool, and there's, uh, constantly messaging going there with customer-facing teams. So, uh, there's actually a ton of ways that [laughs] we get, we get that feedback. And one of the things that customers love about Zoom is that we listen, and we move really quickly. And so you'll get a turnaround on a feature from Zoom at a pace that, um, our competitors just don't, don't match. So, uh, that part's exciting. You know, it's, it's a challenge to sometimes do that, but, uh, you can really see the delight when you talk to customers about that fact.

    3. AGAakash Gupta24:37

       What's the most overhyped trend in meetings?

    4. JBJohn Beckmann24:41

       I guess I'd say I'm not sure if anything's really overhyped. I think it's sort of meetings has becomeYou know, firmly part of everyone's work life. Um, and I, I'm, I'm not really-- I'm not tracking anything that's overhyped. Um, you know, one of the exciting things is, is where meetings will go in terms of the end-to-end life cycle, and, and Zoom is really focused on building a great program there with meeting summary and automated tasks, et cetera. But yeah. Uh, were you thinking of anything in particular around overhyped?

    5. AGAakash Gupta25:14

       So I think the thing that goes viral most often about meetings is this idea of having someone, an AI, interview for you. But I don't know if the tech is actually there yet. It feels overhyped to me.

    6. JBJohn Beckmann25:28

       Oh, well, if that's actually something people are hyping, I would say that's probably overhyped. But I think it also-- uh, it touches on a much broader topic with regards to AI that goes beyond meetings as well, which is, you know, the, the joke is that teachers are using AI to create tests and students are using AI to answer them, so AIs are just testing each other. And, um, it's kind of a funny thing to say in jest, but there's like a deep truth underlying that. And, uh, there's tons of areas where we're gonna have to figure out, um, the difference between AI and reality, and where you have to insist on reality and, and how you insist on reality, right? So if you're testing somebody in an interview or in, in an educational setting, uh, if it's not actually in person, you know, a-it will-- there, there will be challenges. Uh, and I don't think we know the answers to those, and those are things we'll have to, to navigate.

    7. AGAakash Gupta26:23

       Is there anything you can do as an interviewer to validate that the person you are interviewing is real, or is there anything that Zoom does on your end automatically to help interviewers with that?

    8. JBJohn Beckmann26:33

       Uh, not that I'm aware of. Um, I'd have to think about that. Uh, I don't know, maybe pick up the latest newspaper and [chuckles] show them today's date. Um, I don't know. I think they do that in hostage situations. Maybe a grim example, but, um, yeah. I mean, I, I'm not aware of anything that, that we're doing on that front. I'm also not aware that that's actually a challenge. You know, I've, I've done some interviewing recently, and I'm pretty sure it was not, not an issue. [laughs]

    9. AGAakash Gupta27:02

       [laughs] Just ask them some question that the AI is not trained on. [laughs] You know, "What is the color of the shirt you're wearing?" I don't know.

    10. JBJohn Beckmann27:10

        Uh.

    11. AGAakash Gupta27:10

        There's gotta be a way. [laughs]

    12. JBJohn Beckmann27:11

        Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm sure there's lots of ways. You know, of course, that starts getting a little bit awkward when you're trying to test whether or not it's like the case in an interview scenario, but it's a, [chuckles] it's a great question.

    13. AGAakash Gupta27:22

        Yeah. I think the latest is like, "Put your hand over your face with this item in your background," I've been hearing. So people are trying weird things. It's weird that in 2025 that's what we need to be thinking about.

    14. JBJohn Beckmann27:35

        Yeah. Well, it sounds like you're a lot closer to that than I am. I... And I read, you know, a fair bit about what's going on in, in the tech world, et cetera. But yeah, uh, I, I still think it-- you're touching on something that's really broad with AI, which is, um, all around the authenticity and, and when you need to care and, and when you don't, and, and how you solve for some of those cases. You know, the education one that I mentioned is really, really fascinating, 'cause students are now actively using AI for everything. And so what does that mean as an educator, and how do you evaluate students having learned material? I think it's really, really a, a good question and a difficult question. I don't know if I know the answer.

    15. AGAakash Gupta28:11

        Today's episode is brought to you by the AI PM certification on Maven. Run by Miqdad Jaffer, who is a product leader at OpenAI, this is not your typical course. It's eight weeks of live cohort-based learning with a leader at one of the top companies in tech. OpenAI just doesn't stop shipping, and this is your chance to learn how. Run along with product faculty and Mo Ali, the course has a four point nine rating with a hundred and thirty-three reviews. Former students come from companies like OpenAI, Shopify, Stripe, Google, and Meta. The best part? Your company

11. 28:41 – 36:35

    Power-user tour: lesser-known Zoom meeting features and workflow tricks

    1. AGAakash Gupta28:41

       can probably cover the cost. So if you want to get five hundred dollars off, use my code AAKASH25 and head to maven.com/product-faculty. That's M-A-V-E-N.com/P-R-O-D-U-C-T-F-A-C-U-L-T-Y. So I wanna shift gears a little bit. We've been talking a lot about the past, present, and future of Zoom. I wanna know how people can use Zoom well. Can you walk us through some of the features people might not be using on Zoom, but should?

    2. JBJohn Beckmann29:13

       Okay. Um, okay. Let me walk you through some of my favorite things in Zoom meetings here. I'll start sort of left to right. Uh, we've got the audio/video, which everybody knows about mostly, uh, turning on your audio and video, but some of these items in this sub-menu are really exciting. Um, adjusting your background. Here is where you can upload virtual backgrounds. Uh, we've got avatars that you can choose. Um, we have video filters, studio effects. There's been lots and lots of great feedback online about how Zoom really makes you look good. Uh, this is where you can find sort of all of those goodies, which is very, very exciting. Um, chat, I think everybody is, uh, familiar with. I can bring up that side panel though, and I'll just send a test message here. Um, what a lot of folks, uh, you know, might not leverage here is you actually have this ability to create a new chat, and if somebody were in this meeting with me, uh, I would be able to chat with them. So now you've got basically a really, um, easy way to have both the group chat for the main meeting as well as individual chats now separated. Um, and we've got all sorts of capabilities down here around emojis and, uh, other ways to embellish chat. That's exciting. Um, on the reactions front, um, here, you know, the send with ef-effect is really, um, an exciting thing here, where if I do that, you get sort of some of these effects. So, uh, there's also the option just to have the standard reaction here, and then you've got, um, some controls as well. Uh, on the share sheet, let's see what we got here. Um, this is a fairly standard screen share here. One exciting thing is this Documents tab, and in particular, if I were to share a, a Zoom doc.Um, what you get here now is the ability to create, um, a new doc, and that now becomes a collaborative canvas. So other, um, participants in the meeting can actually edit directly on this and navigate this. So that's actually a really, uh, powerful capability for Zoom Docs. And Zoom Docs is, is, uh, a new product from Zoom that is doing really, really well. I use it for, you know, earlier in the podcast, I talked about organizing hundreds or thousands of things. So, uh, Zoom Docs is my vehicle for that. Um, AI Companion is another, uh, really exciting thing. I mentioned that earlier in the, in the podcast. An AI Companion is just this side panel that shows up in the side of the meeting. Um, we've got a couple of hero prompts here. If you showed up in the meeting late, we've got Catch Me Up, and Catch Me Up will, um, basically provide you with a summary of the meeting up until that point. Uh-

    3. AGAakash Gupta31:48

       Mm

    4. JBJohn Beckmann31:48

       ... you've also got free-form questions that you can ask here. And then, of course, you can have a dialogue with the, with the AI as you would in, in any, uh, chat interface. So that's a very, very powerful capability.

    5. AGAakash Gupta31:59

       How did you guys write that? So you basically have like a, uh, live transcription going, and then you probably hook up into like a OpenAI API to like answer questions or something like that? Or how did you guys build that?

    6. JBJohn Beckmann32:10

       Yep, yep, it's something along those lines, right? So you have to turn on the AI so that we do get the transcript, and then the transcript can be leveraged to provide those types of tools. And then, um, when the AI is enabled as well, that's also the, the tool that we use to generate the meeting summary, which, um, is something that shows up after the meeting is over.

    7. AGAakash Gupta32:27

       Got it. How-- Is there, are there any cool, uh, recent things you've asked the, uh, AI Companion that people might not have thought of?

    8. JBJohn Beckmann32:35

       Um, yeah. I think, um, we've seen some sort of more funny use cases where we're in a team meeting and, uh, somebody makes some comment that has a little more high entertainment value about what's going on in the world, and then you can ask, uh, AI to summarize, you know, "What did, what did Jeff say?" And, uh-

    9. AGAakash Gupta32:55

       [chuckles]

    10. JBJohn Beckmann32:55

        ... and you get some pretty good answers. So, um, it's, it's pretty-

    11. AGAakash Gupta32:59

        Interpreting people.

    12. JBJohn Beckmann33:00

        What's that?

    13. AGAakash Gupta33:00

        Yeah. Interpreting people.

    14. JBJohn Beckmann33:02

        Kind of interpreting people, but it-- you can, you can ask it, uh, any questions. It, it applies to the open web, and, and so you can just sort of use it as a resource to, um, uh, to use inside of the meeting, uh, really, really quickly.

    15. AGAakash Gupta33:16

        And all that's private, right? Nobody else is gonna be able to see that.

    16. JBJohn Beckmann33:20

        Uh, that's right. That's right. So your-- That AI Companion window I showed you, that's, that's your panel for you. And then you can choose to share some of the responses. Um-

    17. AGAakash Gupta33:30

        Cool.

    18. JBJohn Beckmann33:30

        Uh, let's see what else. Um, we got whiteboards here. So, um, this is a really-- another powerful feature, um, that we built up over the last couple of years that is now a really, really powerful whiteboard product. Uh, when I joined Zoom, there was the very, very basic whiteboard product, um, that many people are familiar with. This is actually a, a, a full-- fully capable whiteboard product you can use inside of a meeting as well as after. So any of these docs or whiteboards that you create in a meeting are available, uh, after the meeting as well. This is also a collaborative canvas, so other people in the meeting can, uh, can work on this with you. So you can, you can co-co-edit, uh, these things. And you'll, you'll see there's a difference between screen share and, you know, collaboration, where with Zoom Docs and with Zoom Whiteboard, you actually can co-create together, which is a really, really powerful thing, and we use that, uh, quite a bit. Um-

    19. AGAakash Gupta34:29

        When's the last time you used that? What did you use it for?

    20. JBJohn Beckmann34:32

        Um, I'm a big boxes and arrows guy, so when I'm trying to explain concept, I like to draw boxes and arrows. So, uh, I make it very visual and try to avoid the danger of everybody having something different in their mind. So I use it pretty regularly in my team meetings when we're brainstorming on something. I'm like, "Okay, let me just draw some boxes and arrows." Um, and then I'll use that afterwards to actually elaborate on that, and that can, that can actually become part of the, the spec as it, as it evolves, and people can chime in on that as well.

    21. AGAakash Gupta35:01

        Yeah. Kind of like use the meeting to write your initial drafts of whatever document you're building.

    22. JBJohn Beckmann35:08

        Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That, that's, that's the idea. I mean, it depends how far you go in the, in the whiteboard in the meeting, but, uh, that's the idea. Yeah.

    23. AGAakash Gupta35:14

        Got it.

    24. JBJohn Beckmann35:16

        Um, let's see. This is the, the Zoom Docs pop-up. So again, this is where you can, um, look at your, uh, recent documents. You can create a, create a new one. You can even take private notes, but that's a really, really powerful capability. Um, I think folks are familiar with the captions. Um, polls and quizzes is also a great feature, uh, that, that we've got there. You can build those polls afterwards. You can create it inside of the meeting. Um, and that's a little bit more for, you know, formalized meetings. Uh, it's certainly big in webinars, et cetera. Uh, and yeah. Well, you can reorder all of these, uh, icons. That's another big thing. Um, and, uh, there's all sorts of settings. So those are, those are some of the highlights. I think, uh, you know, the other things I would share is going back to what you said about having lots and lots of meetings, right? I, uh, I get good at keyboard shortcuts for audio and video. I get good at keyboard shortcuts for, um, going back to the main interface. Uh, I use the, the right-hand panel in the Zoom client to see all my upcoming meetings. You can hook it up to your calendar. Uh, and if you use Zoom Calendar, it's even easier. Um, and that's really the, the quickest way to get to your next meeting. Uh, and so some of the expertise around using Zoom is, is some of that workflow management. And for me, uh, you know, keyboard shortcuts are, are one of those ways.

12. 36:35 – 40:42

    Simplicity vs feature growth: keeping the ‘happy path’ fast and discoverable

    1. AGAakash Gupta36:35

       So you just walked through so many features. I return back to my earlier concern a little bit of, as a product leader, we all face this, where we're creating all of these features. How do you think about providing that simplified, highly performant experience, which is what Zoom really grew on, right? Is-

    2. JBJohn Beckmann36:54

       Mm-hmm

    3. AGAakash Gupta36:54

       ... compared to Google Meet, compared to WebexGoog- Zoom is lightweight client, it's highly performant, works on all devices, works in bad internet. How do you balance that, you know, simplicity core with all these other features?

    4. JBJohn Beckmann37:09

       Uh, well, I think the most important thing to keep in mind is to get the important things right. And so, you know, in the case of video conferencing and, and certainly was the case for Zoom, which is part of why I think it, uh, took off during COVID, is, um, the ability to, to join the meeting. And joining a video conferencing meeting is actually, uh, a lot more complicated than people think. There's all sorts of challenges with audio and video and external peripherals and all that. But, um, keeping the main thing the main thing, uh, I think is really important. So joining the meeting, managing audio video, and screen share. And I think, um, you know, that today is as easy as, as it always has been with Zoom. I think as you add more things, it does get, uh, it does get trickier. You know, one of the challenges we faced when, uh, COVID really took off is every persona in every segment used Zoom for every use case. And so, of course, as a product leader, h- you know, how on earth do you m- do you manage that? And so I think, um, you know, keeping the main things straightforward, the, the, uh, happy path needs to be-- needs to remain happy. I think there is a balance to be struck around not putting everything up at the fore. I think you do need to make decisions about what, you know, uh, what gets a little bit, um, removed from the front interface, and nobody really likes to make that decision 'cause discovery becomes a challenge. But the reality is, for some things, um, I think they have to be below the surface. People who want those features will likely go and find them and figure out, uh, how to use them. And, you know, the, the great challenge we have is, you know, there's lots of features and functionality in Zoom, like you said, but there's an audience for all of them. Um, and so not all of them are used by everybody, but everybody uses, uh, everything that's in there. And so, uh, that comes from us supporting just so many use cases and so many user segments.

    5. AGAakash Gupta39:01

       So we walked through these features. What's the most powerful featur- feature that not enough people are using?

    6. JBJohn Beckmann39:10

       Um, you know, I think some of these, these newer-- I don't know if they're, uh, features so much as product capabilities, but the AI, uh, companion and the meeting summaries that get generated, if you're not leveraging those, you're definitely missing out. Um, they're very, very powerful. They're very, very accurate. Um, and they're really, really a tremendous addition to the meetings product. Um, I would also say the collaboration tools, uh, Zoom Docs and Zoom Whiteboard. So, you know, those are partial features of meetings, but they're also standalone products on their own right that you can use sort of in, in both ways. I think that's really some of the more powerful things that, uh, that we've released in the, in the recent past. Those came, um, you know, after my tenure leading, uh, uh, the meetings platform, but they're really, really powerful, and we use them. I use them all the time.

    7. AGAakash Gupta39:56

       I feel like whiteboarding is the one, right? Because part of the problem with Zoom fatigue that we keep hearing about is that the meeting doesn't feel interactive, and I think that's a really good way to open up the interactivity.

    8. JBJohn Beckmann40:09

       Yeah. I, uh, you know, fatigue is a, is an interesting challenge. You know, it's not Zoom specific. It doesn't matter, you know, if you have a job that requires lots of video conferencing, there's, there's that type of fatigue. But, um, I think you're right. Some of the alleviation of that comes in the nature of the meeting you have with somebody. Um, you know, how much you allow it to go a little bit off track so you can have a, a more entertaining interaction. Uh, and then just working together on something where you get sort of, uh, absorbed in co-creating rather than just, uh, sort of listening.

13. 40:42 – 48:35

    Meeting load management: calendar discipline, async aids, and avoiding chaotic meetings

    1. AGAakash Gupta40:42

       So PMs in particular, we have so many meetings. How should we manage having so many meetings?

    2. JBJohn Beckmann40:50

       Um, well, I think, uh, part of that is being proactive about whether or not you accept meetings and, uh, doing things like calendar maintenance ahead of time, uh, insisting on agendas and productive meetings that you attend, um, thinking about pre-reads. I think all of those can help. Uh, we talked earlier about async. I think that can actually play a pretty good role, not only in maybe not having a meeting because you can share something async, but also if you do have a meeting, making it a lot more effective. Um, I think there's, uh, something to be said for getting good at the tool [chuckles] if you've got a lot of meetings. You know, how can you-- Like you said, maybe you have a listening meeting where you put on your avatar, and you can make lunch, uh, if you're in that scenario. So some of it is getting familiar with the tool. Um, but I like to think some of it is more upstream about what I mentioned with just, you know, does the meeting have an agenda? Is it gonna be productive? Do I need to be there? So sort of calendar discipline.

    3. AGAakash Gupta41:50

       How do you personally, as a head of product, exercise calendar discipline? What are the meetings you're most frequently saying no to?

    4. JBJohn Beckmann41:57

       Um, most frequently saying no to, I think, you know, there's a tendency when, uh, an issue arises with a customer or there's an urgent ask for something to quickly call a meeting, and those meetings can really be chaotic and not very productive. And, um, I find myself sort of asking like, "What is this meeting about? Where are we at?" And, you know, f- in my role for efficiency's sake, I often ask for something to be a little more further along or synthesized before I, I, I dive in 'cause otherwise they're very, very time-consuming and not super good use of my time.

    5. AGAakash Gupta42:33

       Are there meetings that PMs aren't calling but they should be calling?

    6. JBJohn Beckmann42:40

       Uh, that's a good question. Um, my immediate reaction to that is not really a yes. Uh, my team at Zoom or the, the various teams I've been on, all very, very proactive in communication. Uh, we use our enterprise chat tool, you know, just like anybody all day long. Um, I wouldn't really say that's an issue, uh, sort of in my experience, certainly not at Zoom.

    7. AGAakash Gupta43:07

       The one I would say, even for my own personal self, is being willing to go in front of senior leadership when you have a win. I think sometimes we only wanna go to senior leadership when we need their input or we need more resources, but then you end up seeming like the person who always needs more resources.

    8. JBJohn Beckmann43:24

       [coughs]

    9. AGAakash Gupta43:24

       One of the things that started shifting later in my career is, "Hey, we had a big win." If I'm gonna meet up with my CPO the day before in my one-on-one, I'll say, "Hey, uh, we're gonna be reviewing the results in depth on this win. It wasn't on your calendar, and I know you have a lot of things going on, but if you want, I can add you to this."

    10. JBJohn Beckmann43:42

        Uh, yeah, that's a great point. Although we, we have different, uh, avenues to actually share that type of info, and that's, you know, partially my job. We have-- I've got a standing chat channel with E-staff, uh, just pertaining to topics on my product. And when we have big wins, I certainly put them in there. When we have launches, I put them in there, and that usually generates some, you know, emoji reactions and some good conversation. We also have a quarterly business review where we present to the CPO and our chief design officer, and, uh, part of that template also includes, you know, wins for the quarter, et cetera. So we do have ways of, of advertising those. Your point is, is really a good one, though. It's, um... You know, for people who, uh, tend to not wanna, uh, draw attention to themselves or highlight, you know, the good things for themselves for fear of sounding like they're bragging, uh, that can be a real, real topic to think about. Because, um, if you don't tell folks, they probably aren't gonna know. And if there's good stuff going on, it's your job to sort of share that. So, uh, I personally have, have also learned how to strike that balance 'cause I'm not boastful by nature. In fact, the opposite. Uh, but when there's good stuff going on, I gotta sort of vouch for myself and the team a little bit.

    11. AGAakash Gupta44:56

        Hundred percent. So we've been talking about using Zoom as a PM. Unfortunately, a lot of PMs in the last couple years have found themselves on the back end of layoffs or years of efficiency-related firings, or they're just seeing that the market is opening up now, finally. PM jobs are up 50% from the bottom, and they're popping their heads up for an interview. Are there any interviewee-specific tips for Zoom you would highlight?

    12. JBJohn Beckmann45:24

        Uh, for, for Zoom? Um, you know, we look for, uh, clear communicating, and so somebody who's very, very structured in the material they're presenting. Uh, we look for evidence of impact, uh, where you've, you know, worked on something substantial and, uh, you know, it was successful. Um, we also look for, um, you know, the right sense of urgency. Uh, it's a really, really big, um, part of the Zoom's culture is to move very quickly. And, uh, you know, if you're taking a few days to do this and a few days to do that, um, then that's gonna be a cultural mismatch. So we, we try and, uh, identify for that. Eric is [chuckles] very, very famous for wanting to move very, very fast and, uh, you know, he's of course, right. Speed is a very, very powerful weapon. Uh, you of course, wanna be all going in the s- the same direction and the right direction. But, uh, those are a couple things that come to mind.

    13. AGAakash Gupta46:23

        How do you think about your interviewee presence on Zoom, though? Are there things people should be thinking about in terms of whether they're using a virtual background or a blurred background, or how they're efficiently gesticulating or how they have the right, you know, video and audio setup? Do you think those things matter for interviews?

    14. JBJohn Beckmann46:42

        Um, yeah, I think they do. Um, I mean, maybe in the extreme case, right? If your, if your light is really, really dark and I can't hear your audio, that's kind of a problem. Um, you know, but do you have to have a professional sounding setup? I don't think so. Um, you know, if your background is, is really suspect, that's probably, [chuckles] you know, uh, an alarm bell, but, you know, I haven't really seen too much of that. I would maybe say a blur or virtual background can often be better than what some people actually have in their background. And, you know, we wouldn't judge anybody based on that background, but, uh, you know, everyone's human. Uh, I think some of the other things you mentioned, uh, aren't necessarily different on Zoom than they are in, in real life. So the inflection of your voice and how much you use your hands and how you communicate, I think some of that comes across pretty well in-- over video.

    15. AGAakash Gupta47:33

        Yeah. I think a lot of the classics of communication apply to interviews.

    16. JBJohn Beckmann47:37

        Mm-hmm.

    17. AGAakash Gupta47:37

        But it's worth paying attention to. [chuckles] It's not just the content of your response.

    18. JBJohn Beckmann47:42

        Yeah. The, um... I, I agree. Uh, the, the one thing that is maybe somewhat subtle is, uh, communicating over video requires a little bit more, "I'm done talking, and I'll stop, and now I'll let you talk." And immediately talking at the tail end of somebody else where you're overlapping can, can get, uh... It just gets, it gets challenging. So it's almost like a, a slight change in, in how you go back and forth.

    19. AGAakash Gupta48:10

        Yeah. Should people be using Raise Hand more?

    20. JBJohn Beckmann48:14

        Um, I think it depends on the nature of the meeting and the size of the meeting. Some meetings are a little more boisterous, and if there's only a couple people, I would say no. Uh, if you've got 18 people, um, trying to talk about something significant, I think you almost, you almost have to. Um, so depends on the context.

14. 48:35 – 1:01:18

    Zoom’s product execution culture: PRS framework, nimbleness, QBR planning, and metrics

    1. AGAakash Gupta48:35

       I wanna talk a little bit about what are the right meetings for PMs to have, and I'm really keen on this one of stand-ups. Are daily stand-ups just fake productivity?

    2. JBJohn Beckmann48:48

       Um, I don't know if I'd call them fake productivity. Um, I don't-- I've never really experienced them to be super powerful. Um, what I find really, really powerful for, for PMs is, umContextualizing your feature properly in terms of what problem you're solving and why you're doing it. And at Zoom, we have a framework called, uh, uh, problem root cause solution. And so one of the most powerful things I think you can do as a PM is to focus really on the problem and root cause, and not even the solution yet, and get alignment around that. Um, because then, you know, once you have alignment on that, your solution is likelier to, to land because if you don't have alignment on that, your solution could be the wrong problem due to the wrong root cause. So we spend a fair bit of time on that, and I think PMs who spend time articulating that very crisply and then sharing that and getting feedback on that, I think spend a lot less time reworking stuff later after they've done a solution. And the problem isn't the solution, it's that it wasn't solving the right problem and it didn't understand the actual root cause. So that to me would be more powerful than a daily standup. You know, I try and, um, stay very aligned with my PMs on what they're working on and then give them lots of, uh, leeway around that. I don't need, uh, you know, standup to, to know that they're cranking. [chuckles]

    3. AGAakash Gupta50:15

       What does getting clear on the problem and root cause look like in practice? What should an ICPM be doing in order to show that depth?

    4. JBJohn Beckmann50:25

       Um, well, I, I think on the problem side it's, um, really articulating what is going wrong. And on the root cause, which is the harder part, is like, w- why is this happening? Um, and that can get into, eh, I was gonna say five whys, but may- sometimes it's three whys. But, um, the root cause really is sort of, um, the issue. And, and sometimes the root cause is, you know, we just don't have that feature. But, uh, often the root cause is more the user's trying to do something and they can't. Um, the user in their mind was expecting something else. And so that, that's actually where a lot of the, the, um, challenges come. And then the other, uh, aspects of the problem root cause, uh, framework is also sort of w- why-- how do you know this is a problem, right? Did you hear one person complain on social media, or is this like backed up by quantitative and qualitative data? And then the other big piece is, is why do we have to solve it now? Uh, is this, you know, really more important than the things we got going? So if you nail all those, you're gonna, you know, be much more effective, uh, as an ICPM if you're not.

    5. AGAakash Gupta51:35

       So there's that framework you mentioned, problem root cause solution. What else is unique about how Zoom builds product?

    6. JBJohn Beckmann51:42

       Um, unique about how we build product. Um, we, we move fast. [chuckles] We, uh, are very, uh, keen to get things to market and in, into the hands of customers as quickly as we can. Uh, and then we listen and we iterate. Um, and then, you know, I mentioned earlier, we, we really do listen to customers very, very closely and, uh, for the top stuff, we can move very, very quickly. Uh, I mean, things... W- we could get asked for something on Thursday and have it out by, you know, the Monday morning after the weekend. So, um, that's obviously not applicable to every single ask, but, uh, if you're listening closely and understand how to read those tea leaves, that's a really powerful capability.

    7. AGAakash Gupta52:26

       You've worked at a bunch of places that people would have heard of, Qualcomm, Hired, BlueJeans. When you compare and contrast the product cultures, what are the most interesting vectors? How would you describe Zoom's?

    8. JBJohn Beckmann52:41

       Um, I think just nimbleness. Zoom is, like, incredibly practical, incredibly nimble, incredibly fast. Um, you know, uh, leaders can go straight to ICPMs and vice versa, and it's, you know, not a lot of standing on ceremony and, and hierarchy. It's much more focused on, on execution. I think that's probably the biggest difference.

    9. AGAakash Gupta53:05

       So if you're a product leader and you wanna replicate Zoom's success, how do you create that nim- nimbleness in your product team?

    10. JBJohn Beckmann53:12

        Um, well, I think you lead with a sense of urgency. You lean with, uh, lead with, uh, moving quickly yourself. Uh, you lead by example around practical solutions, um, focusing on MVP and iterating. I think it's... A lot of it is about leading with example and stepping in front of things that are scope creeping and, and, uh, getting, getting too big.

    11. AGAakash Gupta53:38

        How do you guys handle planning?

    12. JBJohn Beckmann53:41

        Um, we have different planning cycles. Um, we-- I think the biggest, uh, rhythm of business we have is our quarterly business review, where on a quarterly basis we share, you know, what happened in the past quarter and where we're going over the next quarter. And, uh, and that view is fairly precise over the next quarter. And then we also share some longer term, uh, items that obviously decrease in precision as you go a little bit further out. But that's our main, our main planning rhythm, and every team's responsible for that, and we share that in a, in a two-day QBR every quarter with the CPO and the CDO.

    13. AGAakash Gupta54:18

        What have you guys learned running these QBRs? What's your playbook for running an effective QBR?

    14. JBJohn Beckmann54:24

        Uh, well, we have a template, and we've got a great product ops team that, uh, holds everyone accountable to getting that template done and, um, holding the schedule on time 'cause we've got a lot of different groups presenting over a couple days. So, um, a lot of that is, uh, the logistics. We do do a pre-read before everybody presents, which is also, uh, very useful, so the focus is actually more on discussion and questions than it is just presenting slides. Uh, and ideally, they're available before the QBR as well, and you can pre-read those. But, uh, you know, it, it does get to be a lot of material, so we build in pre-read time. I think those are some of the most effective tools that we use for that. 'Cause when I first joined Zoom, it was, you know, product and design in total was 20 people, and everybody could walk through their slides and we could take an afternoon and it was fine. But, uh, at scale, that doesn't work.

    15. AGAakash Gupta55:12

        How do you scale that? How do you manage who is going to which sessions? I know PMs always wanna see the other people's sessions.

    16. JBJohn Beckmann55:19

        Mm-hmm.

    17. AGAakash Gupta55:19

        What's the right attendee list for these?

    18. JBJohn Beckmann55:22

        Well, everyone, all the product and, and design and eng is invited to whatever sessions they want to attend. Uh, the triad is expected to be there for theirs. Uh, and it's a, you know, a key quarterly window to discuss with the CPO and the CDO everything you got going, answer their questions, um, and share what your plans are, et cetera. Uh, and, you know, for everybody else, it's, you know, you, you attend what you want to attend. Um, at Zoom, in my experience, we have very high attendance for almost all of the sessions because people are very interested in what's going on with, with other products, and so hasn't really been an issue in terms of managing that. Uh, and it's also been pretty good when you, you know, have a lot of people in a big forum. People learn how to, you know, use asynchronous comms a little bit more than everybody trying to get airtime. That's also not really been an issue, so that's good.

    19. AGAakash Gupta56:13

        How precise is too precise? How much are you guys defining features in advance, estimating impacts in advance for that upcoming quarter?

    20. JBJohn Beckmann56:22

        Um, I think we're pretty practical about it. Um, I think, you know, what's the saying? Um, plans are useless. Planning is priceless. Uh, I think it's really good to put a stake in the ground as to what you're going to build, but I've, I've never seen my quarterly plan stay intact, uh, at, at Zoom, for sure. Um, it's just too dynamic an environment. There's, uh, too much going on, and we're too responsive, I think, to customers, uh, to really stick to that, and that's, that's sort of understood. Um, when new things come up, you've gotta, you gotta make those trade-offs. So, um, I, I think we really do focus on the value of planning more than the, the plans. It's-- It goes back to that nimble theme.

    21. AGAakash Gupta57:03

        How much of a metrics-driven culture are you guys? Are you guys signing up for specific metrics by PM or by head of product? Where does-- What is the granularity level for metrics ownership?

    22. JBJohn Beckmann57:15

        Yeah. We're mostly focused on, uh, product level KPIs for the product leads, and they work with their team to achieve those. And we partner with GMs of our business to, uh, help, help meet some of the KPIs they've got on the go-to-market side.

    23. AGAakash Gupta57:30

        And how do you handle it when, as a product team, you feel like you're delivering, but you're missing those metrics because of something that might be out of your control?

    24. JBJohn Beckmann57:39

        Um, I don't know. That's, that's part of life. Uh, I think you share all the things that you did do, and, uh, if you've measured the impact, share those. Uh, if you're aware of some things that were beyond your control, um, it's okay to share those as well. Um, you know, we can't, we can't control everything. Uh, I mean, unless your KPI is very, very, very specifically in your control, there's gonna be lots of stuff that, you know, has many, many imp- or many, many things impacting it, right? All the way up to, you know, revenue and overall adoption, like, there's many, many moving parts. There's direct sales, there's online sales, there's free trials, there's marketing. So, um, you know, a lot of moving parts.

    25. AGAakash Gupta58:19

        All right. Is there anything else people should know about how product is built at Zoom that they might not know?

    26. JBJohn Beckmann58:26

        Um, I don't think there's really anything I haven't mentioned so far. Uh, you know, we... Yeah, we move, we, we move fast. We use the problem root cause solution framework. Um, we have regular UX reviews. Um, we iterate quickly when we find something is, uh, not working in the hands of customers. Yeah.

    27. AGAakash Gupta58:52

        You mentioned UX reviews. Are you guys adopting, like, AI prototyping tools internally?

    28. JBJohn Beckmann58:57

        Uh, yeah. We're, we're experimenting with those for sure. Um, I would say we're still ramping up on, on how that might fit into the workflow. Um, but yeah, I, I think that's a really interesting area in, in product and design and development is those prototyping capabilities. 'Cause it-- In, in my mind, if you, you know... I'm more interested in actually in the, in the wireframe prototyping, uh, capabilities than, than HiFi, um, just because I think they're such powerful communication tools, and they communicate very, very quickly how you're thinking about the product. So, uh, yeah, we are. We're definitely exploring those.

    29. AGAakash Gupta59:34

        Have you guys bought licenses for the PMs on any of those tools?

    30. JBJohn Beckmann59:38

        Uh, I think we're figuring out our plan. [laughs] Yeah, I think that's probably likely.

Episode duration: 1:01:28