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TSMC founder Morris Chang

We flew to Taiwan to interview TSMC Founder Morris Chang in a rare English interview. In fact, the last long-form video interview we could find was 17 years ago at the Computer History Museum… conducted by the one-and-only Jensen Huang! This episode came about after asking ourselves a version of the Jeff Bezos “regret minimization” question: what conversations would we *most* regret not having if the chance passed Acquired by? Dr. Chang was number one on our list, and thanks to a little help from Jensen himself, we’re so happy to make it happen. Dr. Chang shares the stories of a few crucial moments from TSMC’s history which have only been written about in his (currently Chinese-only) memoirs, including how TSMC won Apple’s iPhone and Mac chip business and a 2009 discrepancy with NVIDIA that almost jeopardized their relationship, and the lessons he took from them. We can’t think of a better way to kick off 2025. Please enjoy! Sponsors: Many thanks to our fantastic Spring ‘25 Season partners: J.P. Morgan Payments https://bit.ly/acquiredJPMPmorrisyt ServiceNow https://bit.ly/acquiredsn Fundrise https://bit.ly/acquiredfundrise25 Links: Worldly Partners’ Multi-Decade TSMC Study https://worldlypartners.com/businesshistory Karina Bao's writing https://karinabao.substack.com/ Carve Outs: AAA https://www.aaa.com Defunctland https://www.youtube.com/defunctland Everything Everywhere all at Once https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6710474/ Asianometry https://www.youtube.com/asianometry More Acquired: Get email updates with hints on next episode and follow-ups from recent episodes https://www.acquired.fm/email Join the Slack http://acquired.fm/slack Subscribe to ACQ2 https://pod.link/acquiredlp Check out the latest swag in the ACQ Merch Store! https://www.acquired.fm/store 0:00 - Intro 3:22 - TSMC and Nvidia's relationship 9:50 - The 40nm node development problem in 2009 20:55 - The TSMC Laid Off Employee Protest 26:16 - TSMC's Incredible Core Business vs. Expansions 29:08 - Resolving the 2009 NVIDIA dispute 35:59 - TSMC's commitment to 28nm 43:04 - Going all-in on the 28nm node 52:05 - Meeting Apple and Jeff Williams 1:23:09 - Goldman Sachs 1:34:57 - ServiceNow 1:36:01 - Intel's and Apple 1:46:45 - Apple’s and the 20nm node 1:47:58 - Pricing 1:50:24 - Apple and trade-offs 1:55:22 - The IBM-Qualcomm story 2:02:18 - The Learning Curve 2:10:45 - The Flywheel of Returns 2:14:18 - TSMC’s Unexpected(?) Success 2:15:57 - The early days of TSMC 2:21:10 - Ben and David's Reflections 2:27:43 - Taiwanese Science Park 2:47:08 - Carve Outs Notes: This episode contains a paid endorsement for Fundrise. All investments can lead to loss. Acquired hosts and guests may hold assets discussed in this episode. This podcast is not investment advice, and is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. You should do your own research and make your own independent decisions when considering any financial transactions.

Ben GilberthostDavid RosenthalhostDr. Morris Changguest
Jan 26, 20252h 54mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Morris Chang on TSMC’s customer trust, nodes, and compounding scale

  1. Acquired interviews 93-year-old TSMC founder Morris Chang, focusing on pivotal episodes that shaped TSMC’s leadership: the early NVIDIA partnership, the 2009 40nm crisis, and the strategic “all-in” commitment to 28nm.
  2. Chang describes how he resolved a major NVIDIA dispute through direct executive engagement, a time-boxed settlement, and a long-term partnership mindset—turning a painful yield/quality period into enduring trust.
  3. He explains TSMC’s deliberate decision to institutionalize R&D at 8% of revenue and dramatically increase capital spending to capture the smartphone-era “sweet spot” at 28nm, despite board resistance.
  4. The conversation then traces how Apple became a customer (via Foxconn’s Terry Gou introducing Jeff Williams), why Intel failed to win Apple’s foundry business, and how node roadmaps (20nm detour, 16nm catch-up) created real strategic trade-offs.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Customer trust is a strategic asset that can be “bought back” decisively.

In the 40nm dispute, Chang personally re-engaged Jensen Huang, quantified harm, and offered a >$100M settlement with no bargaining and a 48-hour deadline—avoiding arbitration and preserving a relationship that later produced many billions in business.

Operational crises compound when leadership avoids accountability.

Chang recounts that the prior CEO leaned on internal quality claims to deny fault (“zero”), prolonging conflict with NVIDIA; Chang’s fix began by re-opening facts, aligning incentives, and treating restitution as a trust reset, not a legal fight.

Avoid layoffs if you’ll need the talent back within a year.

Chang argues performance-based layoffs lack credibility due to supervisor subjectivity and destroy value when severance plus retraining roughly equals a year; in Moore’s Law businesses, capacity to execute future nodes depends on retaining trained teams.

Make R&D non-negotiable to sustain a Moore’s Law cadence.

After being denied incremental R&D at TI, Chang set TSMC’s R&D at a fixed 8% of revenue “regardless of recession,” removing annual bargaining and enabling teams to plan aggressively for successive nodes like 28nm (and later “sweet spots”).

Winning a node often requires synchronized R&D conviction and capex courage.

TSMC tripled capex (≈$2–2.5B to ≈$6B) to seize 28nm, driven by internal technical confidence (“sweet spot”) and strategic marketing inputs; the board resisted, but Chang insisted management must be accountable for the bet.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

Quiet! Morris Chang is calling me.

Dr. Morris Chang (recounting Jensen Huang’s reaction, 1997)

Our offer is effective forty-eight hours… We are not going to argue. We are not gonna bargain.

Dr. Morris Chang

Intel just does not know how to be a foundry.

Tim Cook (as relayed by Dr. Morris Chang)

There’s a tide in the affairs of man, which taken at its flood, leads on to fortune.

Dr. Morris Chang (quoting Shakespeare on the 28nm bet)

China ruined it. They subsidized the hell out of it.

Dr. Morris Chang (on TSMC’s solar expansion)

NVIDIA relationship origin (1997 letter)40nm yield and quality crisis (2009)Layoff protest and leadership philosophyR&D budget rule: 8% of revenue28nm as “sweet spot” and capex triplingApple entry via Jeff Williams; Intel foundry pausePricing, deposits, and capacity risk managementLearning curve/experience curve and scale flywheelRefusing IBM co-development; maintaining process sovereignty

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