10 Rules That Traumatise ADHD & Autistic Brains (& 20 That Don't!)

1. 0:00 – 5:35

   Trailer

   1. KPKristen Pressner0:00

      For a lot of ADHDers, there's this dysregulation or challenges with regards to when the energy or the momentum's going to come. I consider it more like riding the wave. If you're out surfing, you can't make a wave happen, but you can jump on it if you get a wave. If people could actually have a visualization of how high someone else's hurdles are when they're trying to do the exact same thing, I think there would be a lot more empathy in the world. Kristen Pressner is an ADHD expert. Her viral TED Talk showed how people with ADHD- Can create thriving environments ... drawing on decades of experience- She's distilled her knowledge into a simple and practical guide ADHDers can often have delayed sleep phase syndrome, so they're actually a number of hours later delayed in their optimal working than other people. The earlier you have to get up, the more unfunctional they are. To the extent possible, if you can architect your day not to have to get up quite so early, that might not work for someone who has ADHD.

   2. APAlex Partridge0:52

      What could you say as an alternative to just be more disciplined to someone with ADHD?

   3. KPKristen Pressner0:57

      I guess my invitation would be to just-

   4. APAlex Partridge1:00

      Huge announcement just before we start. Tickets to the ADHD Chatter podcast live theater show are selling fast. I'll be joined on stage by three leading psychiatrists, and we'll be unpacking all things ADHD, how to process a late diagnosis, AuDHD, and of course, the dreaded rejection sensitivity dysphoria. I really hope you can join me for a night full of validation, laughs, and insights, and one that will remind you that you're not broken, just different, and that you have always been enough. It's on the 19th of May in London. You can find a link to the tickets in the description. I can't wait to meet you in person. [upbeat music] Kristen, welcome back.

   5. KPKristen Pressner1:40

      Thank you. It's great to be here.

   6. APAlex Partridge1:41

      We're gonna do something a little bit different today that I don't think we've ever done before, but when I heard you were in town, I thought, "I've gotta get you on to cover this topic." I feel like it would be like a disservice to the community if we didn't go there.

   7. KPKristen Pressner1:53

      Sign me up.

   8. APAlex Partridge1:54

      So we're gonna talk about 10 bits of advice, productivity hacks, that probably all of our audience would have heard before from various sources, but none of them really work-

   9. KPKristen Pressner2:07

      [laughs]

   10. APAlex Partridge2:07

       ... for the ADHD community.

   11. KPKristen Pressner2:08

       Yes.

   12. APAlex Partridge2:09

       Even though it sounds like they should work, they don't. So we're gonna go through 10 piece of advice, and we're gonna look at why they don't work, and for each one, we're gonna explain what's a replacement piece of advice that would work.

   13. KPKristen Pressner2:20

       Ooh, I like it.

   14. APAlex Partridge2:22

       So to start with, if we zoom out a little bit, the person to cover this topic, I wanted, I wanted it to be you, so perhaps you could explain why you are in such a unique position.

   15. KPKristen Pressner2:32

       Thank you. Yeah, I'm probably not your typical guest, someone who studied or, uh, ADHD or is a clinician or, um, something like that. But, um, I think the unique value proposition that I bring is I, um... First of all, I now much better understand the ADHD brain because I learned through my family members who were late diagnosed, my husband and kids. I, I learned a lot about ADHD in order to understand what was troubling us until we got through the diagnoses. And then all of a sudden, once we had the diagnoses, it became clear what wasn't going to work, but it wasn't clear to me what would. And as a neurotypical myself, I... Like, it was counterintuitive to me because I know the typical advice. I know the standard advice that everyone gets. In fact, it was the same advice that I'd been giving my husband and kids all my life, and they would go, "That makes total sense. I'm gonna do that," and then they wouldn't or it wouldn't stick, and I, I couldn't understand why. And honestly, it was really frustrating because I felt, I don't know, kind of like gaslit, that you give this great advice and then people don't take it. And what I didn't realize was they felt terrible because it intuitively made sense to them, and it could- it didn't work for them. And so I really made it my mission in kind of trying to be the bridge between the neurotypical world or people who, like me, formerly don't really understand neurodivergence and ADHD and helping people understand what it is and isn't, and then what do you need to do differently to make sure that you're not creating unnecessary harm for people whose brains simply work differently? But optimally, what can we be doing to bring out the beauty and the gifts and the benefits of different kinds of brains, because actually there's a ton there. But we need to adapt the conventional wisdom to, to help that come out. And so I'm super excited to be on the show because I gave all the advice [laughs] that I imagine that you're going to say, and where I stumbled was, well, what might work instead if these things don't work? And I think this really could be a gift to your viewers.

   16. APAlex Partridge4:31

       Fantastic. It's almost like an echo of what so many of the viewers and listeners have probably experienced. Like, they've tried to do the advice that they've been told, the kind of, quote, unquote, "normal advice," and it hasn't worked. It's fallen short. And when you don't do what you've been told you can do if you follow a particular strategy or hack or a productivity hack and it still doesn't work for you, you're only gonna perpetuate that inner critic and that feeling like, "Why can't I just..." Um, so I feel like today we're gonna unlearn normal.

   17. KPKristen Pressner5:01

       Exactly, and, and I think the prot- productivity hacks, because they kind of work for everybody else, it... And if they don't work for you, it just feels like, wait a minute, this feels like something that's easy-

   18. APAlex Partridge5:11

       Mm

   19. KPKristen Pressner5:11

       ... that's supernaturally hard for me, and that can't feel good. And so I think being able to make some suggestions of what actually might work for people, um, especially because at least for me, and at least per conventual- conventional wisdom, it's a bit counterintuitive. Um, we can help people not feel bad if the conventional wisdom doesn't work for them but give them a hint where to look for something that might unlock some productivity.

   20. APAlex Partridge5:32

       Shall we start?

   21. KPKristen Pressner5:33

       Let's do it.

   22. APAlex Partridge5:33

       Number 10.

2. 5:35 – 9:54

   Just use a planner

   1. KPKristen Pressner5:35

      Okay.

   2. APAlex Partridge5:35

      Just use a planner.

   3. KPKristen Pressner5:37

      Oh.

   4. APAlex Partridge5:38

      [laughs] Now, I feel like every single person with ADHD has about 50 planners somewhere in their home.

   5. KPKristen Pressner5:43

      Yeah, I was gonna ask you how many planners you have. [laughs]

   6. APAlex Partridge5:46

      [laughs]

   7. KPKristen Pressner5:47

      Yeah, yeah. Just get a planner sounds like such good advice, doesn't it?

   8. APAlex Partridge5:51

      Yeah, they look so shiny in the shop.

   9. KPKristen Pressner5:53

      Yes, and so pretty. And so, so the promise of a, a planner.

   10. APAlex Partridge5:57

       Mm.

   11. KPKristen Pressner5:57

       Um, in my experience, why doesn't that work for an ADHDer? It doesn't work because it requires the exact skills that are challenging for an ADHDer, which is the daily habit to use it, um, and use it, um, in the perfect way so that everything is captured in there and everything is clean and clear. And so, um, I can see why it doesn't work. What do you think might work?

   12. APAlex Partridge6:20

       Just, just row back a little bit, I, I totally agree. It's almost like it, it requires some kind of cycle of maintenance-

   13. KPKristen Pressner6:27

       Yes

   14. APAlex Partridge6:27

       ... in order to, to maintain a planner. Uh, you have to remember to pick it up, you have to remember to open it, you have to remember to add things to it. It's almost like it's built on a broken system, which you're almost setting yourself up to fail if, if, if you struggle with m- m- keeping patterns and keeping m- m- uh, routines. I think it fails because it... I feel like everyone who buys a notebook, you have like this honeymoon period. You buy it, you get super excited, you fill out the first few pages, and then the dopamine drops.

   15. KPKristen Pressner6:59

       [laughs] Boring.

   16. APAlex Partridge7:01

       The, the, the effort to maintain it disappears, and suddenly it gets abandoned.

   17. KPKristen Pressner7:05

       Yeah.

   18. APAlex Partridge7:05

       But I feel like, for me, like, keeping things visual, keeping things really, really visual, keeping things within my line of sight all the time really helps.

   19. KPKristen Pressner7:15

       Mm-hmm.

   20. APAlex Partridge7:15

       Like, I, I used to have so much shame and embarrassment over the, the visual aids that I have in my home that enable me to maintain the level of productivity that I need in order to run this podcast. I used to be so embarrassed if someone came over and saw all of the whiteboards [laughs] that are on the walls in all of the rooms in my f- flat, with, like, pens hanging off all of them. So, 'cause I don't know when I'm gonna have a good idea. I could be in the bathroom, I could be in my office, I could be in the kitchen, and, uh, an idea comes, and I grab one of the pens, and I add it to the whiteboard, and it's visual. I- they're all in places that I walk past every day, so it's almost, like, impossible to forget-

   21. KPKristen Pressner7:57

       Yeah

   22. APAlex Partridge7:57

       ... as well.

   23. KPKristen Pressner7:58

       I love that, though, and, like, who cares? It's not embarrassing. Who cares if it works for you, right? And I think that's the thing that we need ADHDers to realize, like, you don't have to get a planner. If whiteboards everywhere works for you, smashing. Uh, I was talking to a friend who said, "I love the idea of a planner, but, you know, kind of the problem with the planner, too, is the first day you don't fill it out, you know, when you fall off the wagon, you can just forget about it from there. Um, then it's useless, and the whole thing was futile." And so I think the pressure's too high also, and so lower pressure modes of helping you keep on task. I remember you talked about bracelets-

   24. APAlex Partridge8:33

       Mm

   25. KPKristen Pressner8:33

       ... that had the different things to do. Brush your teeth, you know, don't forget to get your keys, grab your bag. And I mean, I love it because it's just a really easy visual way to help people remember to do things, you know? So you could put on there, you know, don't forget to write your pa- submit your paper or-

   26. APAlex Partridge8:48

       Yeah [laughs]

   27. KPKristen Pressner8:48

       ... whatever, and, um, whatever works. Who cares, right?

   28. APAlex Partridge8:52

       Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I feel like l- a lot of the sort of neurotypical advice, like buy a planner, just buy another notebook, yes, it works for maybe a day or two, then we forget about it. It, it goes on the pile of used notebooks, and surely that's just gonna perpetuate the shame spiral.

   29. KPKristen Pressner9:05

       Exactly. Yes, the pile of shame.

   30. APAlex Partridge9:07

       Yes. [laughs]
3. 9:54 – 16:00

   Break big tasks into small ones

   1. APAlex Partridge9:54

      overwhelming. But why do you think the, the, the sort of general advice of, well, just break it into smaller tasks perhaps doesn't always work?

   2. KPKristen Pressner10:00

      Yeah. Um, oh, so many times I've given that advice. Just... It's always the sentence that begins with just, dot, dot, dot, break it into smaller tasks. So, um, at least some of my family members have explained to me there's a couple of problems with just break it into smaller tasks. Um, one, breaking it down into smaller tasks in and of itself takes a lot of executive functions, um, being able to discern what needs to precede what. Um, b- you just break it into many, many, many smaller things, and then it's a pile of things that you need to sort. That can be overwhelming. And so, um, what I've heard from a number of people is it isn't a just break it into smaller chunks. Um, sometimes other approaches are better for, um, not creating the overwhelm or using up the potentially limited supply of executive functions or dopamine.

   3. APAlex Partridge10:48

      Yeah. No, it's so useful. I think sometimes admitting to yourself that even if you break it up into, like, a super, super small task, and I go to the example of imagine sending an email as an iceberg, and then it's breaking down into ice cubes. But some days accepting and, and admitting to yourself that those ice cubes need to go even smaller-

   4. KPKristen Pressner11:07

      [laughs]

   5. APAlex Partridge11:07

      ... into, like, crushed ice.

   6. KPKristen Pressner11:09

      Ice chips, yes. [laughs]

   7. APAlex Partridge11:09

      [laughs] Yeah. Like, okay, just turning on my laptop is task one, opening up the web browser task two, typing in my email domain is number three, and, and really, like, building that momentum. But I feel like even that isn't sometimes helpful because it feels like with tasks sometimes it's not anything to do with the size of the tasks. It's, it's the initiation of the, the, the, the task, regardless of how big or tiny it is.

   8. KPKristen Pressner11:35

      Yeah. I think you hit on something really smart there because I, I found it to be a really good hack for people not to be like, "You need to clean your room," but to be like, "Spend five minutes cleaning your room." Or, um, I know someone who, when they have to study, even if they're studying at home, they put on their shoes to cue their brain.

   9. APAlex Partridge11:54

      Mm.

   10. KPKristen Pressner11:54

       And so I think these kinds of things, like you talked about task initiation, can we, um... In my experience as a neurotypical, I get motivation, and then I start taking action. And for a lot of ADHDers, there's this, um, potential dysregulation or challenges with regards to when the energy or the momentum's going to come. And so I consider it more like riding the wave, you know? If you're out surfing, you can't make a wave happen, but you can jump on it if you get a wave. And so, uh, in my experience, a lot of ADHDers need to just start, and then the motivation comes.

   11. APAlex Partridge12:29

       Mm-hmm.

   12. KPKristen Pressner12:29

       And so I think that has the potential to be really interesting 'cause to your point, I'm not gonna write the whole email. What I am gonna do is address it and write the subject line and write myself one or two sentences that I don't wanna forget.And the next thing you know, you've probably gotten pretty close to writing your email

   13. APAlex Partridge12:44

       Yeah, so useful. If someone is trying to start the, the tiniest of tasks, like they've broken it down into crushed ice and they're like, "Okay, I know I just need to open my laptop lid," [laughs] you know, but they're still stuck in some kind of neurologically paralysis and they can't do the tiniest of tasks, how do you s- get over that task initiation, even if the task is super, super small?

   14. KPKristen Pressner13:08

       Yeah. So here I would say s- I, I, I think it's important for ADHDers to understand that riding of the wave, and there's just going to be some days where you're not gonna feel it. And if you can get away with just calling it and saying, "This is a day I'm not feeling it. Tomorrow's another day." Because I think, I always use the analogy, you know, you could use all your energy to push a big rock uphill, or tomorrow you can flick it and it rolls down the hill. And so I don't think there's a lot of value in pushing against that type of barrier. Um, I think that there would be a lot more benefit in just saying, "Mm, today's not the day. We'll take another run at it tomorrow." But I do say, like the moment you feel like the energy's there that you could open the laptop or you could start the email, do not delay. [laughs]

   15. APAlex Partridge13:53

       Mm.

   16. KPKristen Pressner13:54

       Get on it-

   17. APAlex Partridge13:54

       Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah

   18. KPKristen Pressner13:54

       ... and do it, and jump on that energy.

   19. APAlex Partridge13:56

       Yeah, don't waste that dopamine.

   20. KPKristen Pressner13:57

       Yes, exactly.

   21. APAlex Partridge13:58

       [laughs]

   22. KPKristen Pressner13:58

       Don't wait for more to come.

   23. APAlex Partridge14:00

       Yeah.

   24. KPKristen Pressner14:00

       Just take what you got.

   25. APAlex Partridge14:00

       It is incredibly finite. If we get a little bit of dopamine, we, we gotta act on it basically.

   26. KPKristen Pressner14:05

       Exactly. Use it wisely. [laughs]

   27. APAlex Partridge14:06

       Yes. Yeah, yeah. Do you think, like, if you are struggling and you are stuck in paralysis to even do the tiniest of tasks to get the momentum going, like to get over that really early phase to start the momentum building-

   28. KPKristen Pressner14:22

       Mm

   29. APAlex Partridge14:22

       ... can we lean on body doubling to take that very first step?

   30. KPKristen Pressner14:25

       I've heard really good things about body doubling 'cause it almost kind of creates this, um, I don't know, peer pressure-
4. 16:00 – 20:49

   Just be more disciplined

   1. APAlex Partridge16:00

      just be more disciplined.

   2. KPKristen Pressner16:02

      Oh.

   3. APAlex Partridge16:04

      Where does that come from, do you think?

   4. KPKristen Pressner16:05

      Yeah.

   5. APAlex Partridge16:05

      Why is that so painful for people with ADHD?

   6. KPKristen Pressner16:09

      I think I've said that to my family members. I'm sure I've said that. You know, just, uh, do the thing. Just have a place for your keys. Just have more discipline. I think at its root cause is that generally as a society, the things that we can observe that are the challenges associated with ADHD are broad-brushed to be seen as character flaws, and not being disciplined is considered a character flaw. Not, uh, getting it together is considered a character flaw. And what was the big observation for me and why I did the TEDx talk that brought us together was all of a sudden I realized there is a wholly different explanation for the things that I was seeing than character flaws. And I, I literally didn't know that there could be something biological that could be happening that could make it supernaturally harder for someone else than for me to do things that I think are pretty easy, and just be disciplined would be one of them. Because for me, it's like if I set my mind to it, then I can do the thing in a disciplined way. And what I learned in going through the process of understanding ADHD better is, and I like to use the analogy of just hurdles that you jump over, my hurdles are way lower than the hurdles of my family members who have ADHD for certain tasks, the mundane adulting tasks, et cetera. And so it's not a matter of just be more disciplined, and I think if ADHD wasn't something that was invisible, if people could actually have a visualization of how high someone else's hurdles are, how much wind they have in their face when they're trying to do the exact same thing, I think there would be a lot more empathy in the world.

   7. APAlex Partridge17:47

      Mm.

   8. KPKristen Pressner17:48

      And so just be more disciplined assumes for all of us things are equally hard, and they're not.

   9. APAlex Partridge17:54

      I feel like most kids with ADHD would have been told, like, "Just be more disciplined," and it's almost like a trauma. You know, we, we know kids with ADHD are exposed to all of those horrible, nasty extra criticisms, and I think you mentioned a visualization. You know, behind you on the shelf, there's that heart with barbed wire around it, and I feel like that's the, the, the heart of someone with ADHD. Sometimes the barbed wire isn't tightened, but when someone says, when they're an adult, like, "Oh, you should just be more disciplined," the barbed wire tightens, and it's this instant emotional pain that fills them with shame. And I feel like any shame just instantly shuts down activation. So telling somebody with ADHD, like, to just be more disciplined is gonna shut them down and have the counter effect.

   10. KPKristen Pressner18:34

       Yeah. Uh, yeah, the conventional wisdom is that ADHDers most likely have heard 20,000 or more-

   11. APAlex Partridge18:41

       Mm

   12. KPKristen Pressner18:41

       ... negative messages by the time they hit age 10, 12 than their, um, counterpart peers. And I mean, if you think about that, that's multiple messages per day of, "Just be more disciplined. Why isn't your room clean? You said you were going to," et cetera. And-Now that we just talked about that it's way harder for some people than others, it, it feels kinda cruel to talk-

   13. APAlex Partridge19:02

       Mm-hmm

   14. KPKristen Pressner19:02

       ... like that, right? And my general rule of thumb, ever since I have a better understanding of ADHD and a desire not to contribute to all of the hurt that it can cause, this misunderstanding that others have about why people behave in a certain way, but also how it feels as an individual to behave in a certain way or not be able to behave in a certain way, I generally try to steer clear of start, sentences that start with just, because it implies that's easy. And I think now that we understand that everything isn't equally easy for everyone, then you can have an idea of, well, it sh- no sentence should start with just. [laughs]

   15. APAlex Partridge19:38

       Yeah. Yeah. Just be normal. Just try harder. Just stop being so lazy. We've all heard-

   16. KPKristen Pressner19:43

       Just get it together

   17. APAlex Partridge19:44

       ... so many just... Yeah, yeah.

   18. KPKristen Pressner19:45

       Yeah.

   19. APAlex Partridge19:45

       So in terms of th- th- the replacement, uh, what, what could you say as an alternative to just be more disciplined to someone with ADHD?

   20. KPKristen Pressner19:54

       Yeah. I think we talked before, and I think here's some, some potential hacks, 'cause I think just be more disciplined, just like the planner, is going to create, it's gonna set up an ADHDer to fail. Because the moment you fall off the wagon of discipline, you know, let's say, let's, I'm gonna be disciplined, and I'm gonna go for a run every day. And the first day you don't go for a run, the whole thing's been abandoned, right? And so I don't recommend just be more disciplined. I recommend, um, do the thing you can do today. So, you know, if today I can just put on my shoes and go for a walk, I'll put on my shoes and go for a walk. And if I can turn that into a run, great, and, um, I'm just gonna lay out my running shoes or whatever. And so I think, um, the just would be just do what you can.

   21. APAlex Partridge20:35

       Mm-hmm.

   22. KPKristen Pressner20:36

       And oftentimes, uh, per what we talked about earlier, um, if you started, the dopamine comes, and you can finish it.

   23. APAlex Partridge20:43

       Brilliant advice. Moving on to number seven, Kristen, and I feel like vision boards everywhere are gonna be very unhappy with this one [laughs]

5. 20:49 – 23:55

   Focus on your long term goals

   1. APAlex Partridge20:49

      .

   2. KPKristen Pressner20:49

      [laughs]

   3. APAlex Partridge20:50

      Focus on your long term goals.

   4. KPKristen Pressner20:52

      Oh, yes.

   5. APAlex Partridge20:54

      I mean, is it hard for someone with ADHD, it surely is, to focus on something that is in the future when we're talking about a community who potentially have time blindness?

   6. KPKristen Pressner21:03

      Yeah, exactly. One of the things that was really helpful for me to understand for my family, um, the way I perceive time is things from the past that are helpful to inform what I might wanna do in the present or future, what's happening right now, and the future that I would like to prepare for as well as possible and architect for the most positive outcomes. And what I realized with my family is I have this view, this view of time, and my family members have this view of time. Their time perception is much more in the now, and this is hazy. So the learnings from the past that you can apply to now or the future, it's not as strong as I have it. And the, um, being able to transport yourself into the future and backcast from there what I would wanna be doing now, it's, it's hazier. And so that isn't inherently problematic because there's pros to being right here in the now. Um, but to give the advice of think long term, it's hazy out there. So it's really hard to do that, and there's also not a ton of dopamine in future dopamine. It's gotta be a much tighter connection to action and dopamine.

   7. APAlex Partridge22:14

      Mm.

   8. KPKristen Pressner22:15

      And so that's low dopamine stuff.

   9. APAlex Partridge22:18

      So w- what often drives motivation is th- having sight of the reward. Like, okay, if I do the work, I'm gonna get the shiny thing, but if the shiny thing is in the future and you have time blindness- [laughs]

   10. KPKristen Pressner22:31

       Exactly

   11. APAlex Partridge22:31

       ... then you can't, you can't see it, and therefore it's impossible to get motivated because it's almost like a mir- a, an illusion. It's not real.

   12. KPKristen Pressner22:37

       Exactly. I was thinking, um, I, I, I like to believe that I'm someone who gets on the treadmill frequently, and if y- if I set a long-term goal for myself, like, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be super fit, um, that is really hard, I think, for an ADHDer to get motivation against. Like, some people will say, like, "Hang up a picture of how you wanna look," or whatever. It's too far away. But what I do is I attach, um, something that I want to do, so something positive, with something that's hard. And so I'm only allowed to watch ADHD Chatter when, 'cause I like to do that-

   13. APAlex Partridge23:13

       [laughs]

   14. KPKristen Pressner23:13

       I'm only allowed to do that on the treadmill. So it kind of makes me look forward to getting on the treadmill and makes it less painful. And so I think this idea of kind of marrying up things that, um, something that's hard or painful or requires more dopamine with something that gives dopamine is a really good tack for people than this longer term thinking.

   15. APAlex Partridge23:33

       Yes. So it's about sort of creating mini rewards on a much more smaller timescale.

   16. KPKristen Pressner23:39

       Yeah.

   17. APAlex Partridge23:39

       To, like, bring them as close to your now as possible.

   18. KPKristen Pressner23:41

       Exactly.

   19. APAlex Partridge23:42

       So they're tangible, they're visible, and therefore they have that knock-on effect of creating motivation right now.

   20. KPKristen Pressner23:47

       Exactly.

   21. APAlex Partridge23:48

       Fascinating. Right. Kristen, number six. Ugh, God, I think we've all been told this. This is, this is giving me shudders.

   22. KPKristen Pressner23:54

       [laughs]

6. 23:55 – 28:14

   Wake up earlier

   1. APAlex Partridge23:55

      Um, wake up earlier.

   2. KPKristen Pressner23:58

      Oh.

   3. APAlex Partridge23:58

      The 5:00 AM club have entered the chat. Horrible. Wake up earlier. Why does that not work for people with ADHD?

   4. KPKristen Pressner24:04

      Yeah, I mean, um, so everyone's a bit different. Are they a morning person? Are they an evening person? But a lot of the research shows that ADHDers, um, can often have delayed sleep phase syndrome, so they're actually a number of hours later delayed in their optimal working than other people, and so that's where you get the night owl syndrome.

   5. APAlex Partridge24:22

      Mm.

   6. KPKristen Pressner24:22

      Um, and so, you know, I know m- for my family members and colleagues that I know who have ADHD, the earlier you have to get up, the more unfunctional they are. And so to the extent possible, if you can architect your day not to have to get up quite so early, you know, 'cause I think, what's the wisdom? The, um, the early bird gets the worm. Um, that might not work for someone who has ADHD, so you have to really be looking at when, over the course of the 24 hours, am I at my best-And then you've gotta do the most important things in that window, even if it seems counterintuitive

   7. APAlex Partridge24:54

      Mm-hmm. I don't think I've ever done anything productive in between, like, 8:00 AM and noon [laughs]

   8. KPKristen Pressner24:59

      [laughs] We're not sitting here at 8:00 AM, I can tell you

   9. APAlex Partridge25:01

      [laughs] Yeah, it's 6:00 PM here-

   10. KPKristen Pressner25:03

       Exactly

   11. APAlex Partridge25:03

       ... if, if anyone's wondering.

   12. KPKristen Pressner25:04

       [laughs]

   13. APAlex Partridge25:04

       So what's, what's the replacement? What do we do? If, if, 'cause, you know, life happens. Many things do happen, uh, early in the morning. Work typically starts at 9:00 AM. What, what's the replacement? What do we do to solve this problem?

   14. KPKristen Pressner25:16

       Yeah, I mean, if you have to get up and go to work or school or whatever, um, I mean, if you have any say over your agenda, I would say try to, um, plan your agenda so you're not doing things that require a lot of brain power or self-motivation first thing in the morning. So try to architect your day in a way, um, that enables you to have your most important tasks during your best optimal hours. Um, I think that that requires a lot of self-awareness. And so if you struggle with that, if you're not really clear, I don't know when I'm at my best, you know, maybe paying attention or writing down over the course of a day or ask a loved one or a colleague, um, because th- again, there's tons of benefits. We're talking about how to mitigate some of the deficits or the negatives, but there's a ton of benefits, and I think that if we could just kind of broaden our perception of what good and normal looks like, um, we could get the benefits of everyone. But it might mean, for instance, as a, as a leader, if I had someone with ADHD on my team and they were like, "I'm best at 2:00 PM," then maybe I would decide to not have my meetings at 8:00 AM. I would have my meetings at 2:00 PM if it worked for everybody else. And one of my observations as a HR executive is that the vast majority of accommodations that people ask for for ADHD at work are not that expensive and pretty possible to do. So it's not like people are saying, "I'd like to work from Fiji." It's, "I could use noise-canceling headphones so I can concentrate," or, "Is it possible not to have meetings be back to back to back?" And I think these kinds of things as, as leaders and as humans, we should have an openness to be willing to accommodate them

   15. APAlex Partridge26:50

       Absolutely. Like, a- advocating for yourself is so important, and I think to s- schedule the hard things in your life when your brain says yes, rather than the world says, like, this is when you should-

   16. KPKristen Pressner27:01

       Mm-hmm

   17. APAlex Partridge27:01

       ... do something. And also just generally, like zooming out from that, like, how you turn up as a person, I think so many people have this kind of preconception of how you should look or how you should speak or how you should hold yourself, and that's deeply uncomfortable for many people. Like masking, right? It's a huge conversation, and you put so much effort into putting out the version of yourself that you think the world expects, when really we should just learn to, to, to put our most comfortable self forward. Um, but having that awareness to, to schedule the hard things that require more dopamine, like when your brain has the dopamine and not when the world says you should be doing that task.

   18. KPKristen Pressner27:37

       Yeah, exactly, and but it requires a lot of self-awareness-

   19. APAlex Partridge27:40

       Mm

   20. KPKristen Pressner27:40

       ... and self-advocacy, and I know a lot of people aren't in a position to be able to bring that self-advocacy, um, or to have that be well-received, to be perfectly honest. And so I do think, um, in my experience, people with, uh, ADHD have a lot of gifts and benefits, and it's really important to find employment or a place to contribute that really plays to your strengths.

   21. APAlex Partridge28:00

       Mm.

   22. KPKristen Pressner28:00

       And so it's worth to get some, to, to get underneath what are my strengths, when am I best, what aren't my strengths, when am I not the best, and do everything you can to kinda stack the deck for your gifts being able to shine and be appreciated

7. 28:14 – 29:22

   Tiimo advert

   1. APAlex Partridge28:14

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8. 29:22 – 31:59

   Build consistent habits

   1. APAlex Partridge29:22

      hate this [laughs] . Build consistent habits

   2. KPKristen Pressner29:25

      Oh, habits, yes. I was wondering-

   3. APAlex Partridge29:27

      Atomic

   4. KPKristen Pressner29:27

      ... what H word you were talking about

   5. APAlex Partridge29:28

      It's that b- Atomic Habit fans.

   6. KPKristen Pressner29:29

      Yes

   7. APAlex Partridge29:30

      They're gonna need a moment [laughs]

   8. KPKristen Pressner29:31

      Yes, exactly. Exactly

   9. APAlex Partridge29:33

      So why, why do you think people with ADHD struggle to, to build consistent habits? Or may- maybe habits isn't the word we hate. Maybe it's consistency. What do you think?

   10. KPKristen Pressner29:41

       Yeah. I guess they go kind of hand-in-hand, 'cause if it's a habit, it's almost like the implication is you do it without thinking, and I think that's the hard part. Um, anything that's super boring, there's no dopamine, is not going to be easily done without thinking for an ADHDer. And so, um, I think the notion of build habits, make it so it's something that you do without thinking, it's this impossible hurdle to get over. Um, I don't think that that's going to happen, but I think instead you can say, "Well, what, what is the outcome that I would wish for from the habit?" And maybe there's another way to enable that outcome that isn't so much of a dopamine suck

   11. APAlex Partridge30:20

       Build consistent habits almost implies that you're going to be the same person with the same mood and the same energy levels every day-

   12. KPKristen Pressner30:28

       Yes, exactly

   13. APAlex Partridge30:28

       ... for you to stick at that habit. And we know that people with ADHD are very... It's the same person, but we can have different brains on different days. So to maintain something that relies on that consistent state of mind almost seems like it's doomed to fail

   14. KPKristen Pressner30:42

       Yeah. And, and what we talked about before, which is, like, and the moment it goes off track, it's a failure. So it doesn't have any grace in it to just be like, "Okay, today's a day where I'm not doing the habit." Like, a habit is something you don't not do. And so I think to build into your system, like, you know, this is something I do when I can do it, and it's okay if I can't do it on certain days, but over time there's still positive momentum

   15. APAlex Partridge31:06

       So for this one, what do you think the replacement is? Is it a case of rather than congratulating yourself in doing something consistently, uh, instead of that, is it just congratulating yourself for getting something done? Like rather than-

   16. KPKristen Pressner31:17

       Yeah

   17. APAlex Partridge31:17

       ... I'm gonna clean my flat every week, which will be tricky to maintain that consistency, like, if you, if you clean your flat, then congratulate yourself for doing it.

   18. KPKristen Pressner31:26

       Exactly. And I think instead of setting it like, "I've built a habit of cleaning my h- h- flat weekly, and I've missed a week, so therefore I've failed," it's when I clean my flat, which is something... I like to have a clean flat. When I clean my flat, I've associated that with a reward that I really like to reward myself for doing that, to give myself an incentive, and I think that's a great way. You don't make it all hang on always doing it. You make it hang on a reward for having done it.

   19. APAlex Partridge31:52

       Number four, I feel like this one really destroys people, and it's heartbreaking.

9. 31:59 – 40:19

   Just push through

   1. APAlex Partridge31:59

      When people say, like, "Just push through."

   2. KPKristen Pressner32:01

      Oh, yes.

   3. APAlex Partridge32:03

      Why do you think people with ADHD, why is that so painful for someone-

   4. KPKristen Pressner32:05

      Yeah

   5. APAlex Partridge32:06

      ... with ADHD, just push through?

   6. KPKristen Pressner32:07

      First of all, it starts with the J word, just.

   7. APAlex Partridge32:10

      Just, again. [laughs]

   8. KPKristen Pressner32:11

      [laughs] Exactly. Um, but I would say, you know, we talked about this, uh, riding the wave, and you said, you know, the ADHD brain is different any given day or any given moment, and so just push through implies it's a matter of willpower. It's, and it's the same amount of energy for everyone, and I think this is the thing that, again, it's invisible. If it wasn't invisible, you would see the hurdles are this high today.

   9. APAlex Partridge32:33

      Mm-hmm.

   10. KPKristen Pressner32:33

       And so just pushing through would be so heroic and so, cost so much energy, and maybe not be worth it.

   11. APAlex Partridge32:40

       Yes. I feel like what neurotypical people don't understand when they give this advice, when they say to someone with ADHD who's clearly struggling, like, "Just try harder, just push through," is they don't get that the overload, like, it looks like laziness.

   12. KPKristen Pressner32:53

       Yeah.

   13. APAlex Partridge32:53

       That's, that can be the optics of what that can look like for someone who doesn't understand. And what they don't see is, like, what's happening inside, and that j- is, is sometimes c- complete shutdown-

   14. KPKristen Pressner33:03

       Yeah

   15. APAlex Partridge33:03

       ... in those moments. Like physical paralysis sometimes.

   16. KPKristen Pressner33:05

       Yeah, exactly. I, I remember one of my children, you know, seemed to have plenty of energy to go out on the weekends, but when school would roll around on Monday, wouldn't feel well. And I remember thinking, you know, "Just gather yourself up and go," and, you know, all of us maybe don't feel it on Monday, but, um, you need to go. And it, once I became more aware of this, that, that I have to trust her read on what she can and can't handle and what her energy does, does or doesn't allow, um, I became much more open to it. And it was interesting because, uh, recently she w- there was someone that she really wanted to go see, and she said, "I actually, I don't have the energy to go see them today." And that was when it hit me, this doesn't only happen when it's Monday morning, I don't wanna go to school. It happens when she really, really, really wants to do something but doesn't... She can't power through, right? And so we're learning to be able to understand, um, how to better sense and understand her own energy and, um, not push through when, um, it's not the appropriate thing to do because the cost would be too high.

   17. APAlex Partridge34:06

       So is it a case of like framing it as rather, rather than rewarding outcomes, rewarding time given to doing something?

   18. KPKristen Pressner34:12

       Oh, it's a good question, because I think a lot of the just push through is around someone saying, "I don't have it in me." And the conventional wisdom is, well, power through anyway because I can power through anyway. And but I think that there's a difference in how high the hurdle is or how much energetic cost there is to power through. I can power through. I might not be feeling it, but I could do it, and so I expect someone else to do it, but I don't see just how high their hurdles are and how hard it is. And so, um, y- what's the solution is a different question, but I think we all need to understand not to fall in the trap of just, and assuming everyone, um, everyone has the same amount of experience in doing one of these things.

   19. APAlex Partridge34:52

       Gosh, I'm never gonna wear Nike clothing again.

   20. KPKristen Pressner34:54

       [laughs] Just do it.

   21. APAlex Partridge34:55

       [laughs] Constantly triggered on the little tick.

   22. KPKristen Pressner34:57

       Exactly.

   23. APAlex Partridge34:58

       Um, so is it like, like rather than saying, "Just push through it, just go outside today and do 10,000 steps," is it why, c- can you perhaps go outside for 30 seconds?

   24. KPKristen Pressner35:10

       Yeah, I love that.

   25. APAlex Partridge35:10

       Like lowering that hurdle as, as low as possible?

   26. KPKristen Pressner35:12

       Yeah, I love that. You know, it's like what's the smallest thing... You talked about ice cubes and ice chips, right?

   27. APAlex Partridge35:17

       Mm-hmm.

   28. KPKristen Pressner35:17

       And what's the smallest thing that you could do that's in the right direction? So, you know, maybe instead of, um, just power through and go to school that day, maybe it's, you know, um, read the class homework or, uh, dial into class or get the notes from a friend or whatever. But, um, again, it requires that self-awareness for what can I handle. Um, sometimes, you know, I'm like, "Oh, you're not feeling it today? Well, why don't you get ready for school and see how it feels?" [laughs]

   29. APAlex Partridge35:43

       Yeah. [laughs] How damaging can that be? Because if you're in a relationship with somebody or in a family dynamic that doesn't understand ADHD, and you're just getting a constant, like, bombardment of just, just, just, stop being lazy, just push through, just get on with it, but you're physically paralyzed, the overwhelm is too much and you just get called lay- lazy all the time, if, if there isn't this understanding, how much damage can that cause?

   30. KPKristen Pressner36:05

       Yeah. I mean, this is, this is where the conversation gets dark, right? Because, uh, it can cause a lot of damage. Uh, the research shows that, um, ADHDers, uh, have a three to five times the des- death by suicide rate, um, are highly likely, like 80-plus percent likely to have other comorbidities like depression, anxiety, disordered eating, substance abuse disorders. These things are deadly. And that ADHD can, can lower lifespan by about a decade. It, so it's not squirrel ha ha funny like a lot of people think it is, and th- it's not the ADHD that's causing that. It's this cumulative effect of just do this or the assumption that the hurdle is the same height for everyone to do these mundane, boring things. And it's not just my perception as an outsider looking in, it's the perception that the individual themself has. If they're looking around, and for everyone else doing laundry is pretty easy, then you feel really bad about yourself if doing laundry for you is pretty hard. And I think we just need to broaden our perception of what normal and okay and in range is because-For some people, doing laundry is hard, or for some people, finding their keys is hard, or for some people, whatever, but that comes with equal and opposite gifts on the other side. And for me, it's kind of like the perfect match. If it's easy for me to do laundry, then I do the laundry, and I'll save original thinking, creativity, connecting dots for my family members who are way better at that. And then together, we have all of the things.
10. 40:19 – 42:46

    Why can’t you manage your time

    1. APAlex Partridge40:19

       it is, why can't you manage your time better?

    2. KPKristen Pressner40:21

       Oh, yes. That one's a hard one. We talked a little bit about time blindness-

    3. APAlex Partridge40:26

       Mm

    4. KPKristen Pressner40:26

       ... or having a different sense of time. Um, but it's also, for me, it's not even just past, present, future. It's also how long things are going to take, and I think, you know, all of us have noticed this before where it's like spending time with your loved one, the time flies by. You know, spending time, you know, in line at the, uh, market, the time drags, like, or, uh, you know, behind a red light, it drags forever. So we also do have different perceptions of time, all of us, and I think my experience of ADHDers is that the, the, um, perception of time can be very fleeting and shifting-

    5. APAlex Partridge41:01

       Mm

    6. KPKristen Pressner41:01

       ... and that's what makes it really hard to just do that.

    7. APAlex Partridge41:04

       Yes. I feel like people with ADHD are almost very optimistic with their perception of time. They have, like, they're over-optimistic.

    8. KPKristen Pressner41:12

       Mm.

    9. APAlex Partridge41:12

       So if, for example, if you're sat on the sofa in your pajamas, and you gotta leave the house, and your partner says, "Right, we're going in five minutes," in your head you're like, "Five minutes? That's enough time for me to stand up, go upstairs, have a shower, find what I wanna wear, get ready, get back downstairs, find the car keys, and leave."

    10. KPKristen Pressner41:29

        Yeah.

    11. APAlex Partridge41:29

        But it's never enough. Like, you're so optimistic with what you can do in five minutes.

    12. KPKristen Pressner41:32

        Yeah.

    13. APAlex Partridge41:33

        I feel like for me, like, the replacement is, okay, let's acknowledge that we don't really have an understanding of what five minutes is. [laughs] Um, no shame there whatsoever. But rather than say five minutes, say 300 seconds.

    14. KPKristen Pressner41:47

        Ooh.

    15. APAlex Partridge41:47

        'Cause as soon as you say 300 seconds, you sort of see the 300 start counting down, like 300, 299, 298, and suddenly it's not long at all. [laughs]

    16. KPKristen Pressner41:55

        Oh. I like that, and the, it's, you're bringing back in also the, um, make it visual technique that we talked about. So I like the idea of instead of, you know, looking at the clock and having it inform or not inform something, having, um, a timer with sand in it or something-

    17. APAlex Partridge42:10

        Yes

    18. KPKristen Pressner42:10

        ... so you can see the time going, um, can be a real motivator. But I've also found, um, with, um, some people it's, um, because I think the things that generally get ADHDers going are some things that are interesting or novel or fun, but also do or die urgent, and that has a place, uh, for motivation, and it also can have a cost for motivation. But, um, oftentimes, at least in my house, it's the five-minute warning that creates the urgency [laughs] to jump and get in the shower. [laughs]

    19. APAlex Partridge42:39

        Yeah. [laughs] Moving on, Kristin, to the penultimate piece of bad advice that doesn't work for people with ADHD, and that is when someone says,

11. 42:46 – 45:30

    Just prioritise

    1. APAlex Partridge42:46

       "Just prioritize. Just do the important thing first."

    2. KPKristen Pressner42:49

       Yes. Yes.

    3. APAlex Partridge42:51

       [laughs]

    4. KPKristen Pressner42:51

       So I've got this, this huge hurdle that, that literally the act of prioritizing is hard.

    5. APAlex Partridge42:57

       Mm-hmm.

    6. KPKristen Pressner42:57

       And you're telling me to just do it.

    7. APAlex Partridge42:59

       Yeah. [laughs]

    8. KPKristen Pressner42:59

       Just do the thing. Just do the super hard thing.

    9. APAlex Partridge43:02

       [laughs]

    10. KPKristen Pressner43:02

        I think what makes that so hard is, like I said, if there were, if we could visualize how much harder it is, you know, ADHD is a dysregulation of the neurotransmitters in the brain that enable you to get going and do those kinds of tasks. And so if you say, "Well, just do the thing," but there isn't the neurotransmitter-

    11. APAlex Partridge43:21

        Mm

    12. KPKristen Pressner43:21

        ... to enable you to do the thing, how awful is that feedback?

    13. APAlex Partridge43:25

        It is so hard, isn't it, to, like, prioritize tasks when you don't have a perception of time? 'Cause I feel like in order to prioritize tasks, you have to have some kind of ability to visualize different futures-

    14. KPKristen Pressner43:37

        Hmm

    15. APAlex Partridge43:38

        ... if that makes sense, and to almost, like, recognize the consequences of if you don't get a particular task done, or if you don't get another task done. Like, if I don't iron my shirt, I am going to go to that dinner, and I'm going to be worried about what people think of me 'cause I've got a creased shirt.

    16. KPKristen Pressner43:51

        Oh, yeah.

    17. APAlex Partridge43:52

        I think it's very hard for me to, like, acknowledge the, the feeling associated with the shame that is gonna happen at the dinner table with a creased shirt, 'cause that's in the future, and therefore, it doesn't exist. Therefore, the, the need and the importance to iron my shirt now isn't there.

    18. KPKristen Pressner44:06

        Yeah. Yeah. Plus, um, prioritizing is, um, you have to attribute what has to precede what. So I have to iron my shirt before I can wear my shirt, before I can look nice, and it also, um, requires that you're kind of, um, not only doing what n- needs to precede what, but in what order things have to happen.

    19. APAlex Partridge44:25

        Hmm.

    20. KPKristen Pressner44:25

        So it takes a lot of executive functions to prioritize tasks.

    21. APAlex Partridge44:28

        Yeah. Yeah. I feel like you should never have more than three things on your to-do list. I feel like-

    22. KPKristen Pressner44:32

        Exactly. I'm like your bracelets, you know-

    23. APAlex Partridge44:34

        Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah [laughs]

    24. KPKristen Pressner44:34

        ... no more than three bracelets, and if they're all off, you get a reward.

    25. APAlex Partridge44:37

        The, the, the neurotypical advice is, like, put your, all of the stuff on a to-do list, but I feel like people with ADHD, it's helpful, and this is the replacement, to have two different lists. One is, like, your backlog, which is everything that you need to do. And that can have, like, 20, 30 different things on it. And then every day you move no more than three things from your backlog onto your to-do list, and you don't do more than three in a day.

    26. KPKristen Pressner44:59

        Yeah.

    27. APAlex Partridge44:59

        And-

    28. KPKristen Pressner44:59

        I like that notion of kind of triaging and prioritizing and, and boxing in instead of having an infinity list of things.

    29. APAlex Partridge45:06

        Hmm.

    30. KPKristen Pressner45:06

        I'm imagining one of those Trello boards, where you're moving things forward physically. So in your house, you talked about the whiteboards, and maybe you've got Post-it Notes of things on the backlog-
12. 45:30 – 52:00

    Just try harder

    1. APAlex Partridge45:30

       and that is, "Try harder."

    2. KPKristen Pressner45:32

       Oh. Yeah.

    3. APAlex Partridge45:33

       I mean, it is heartbreaking, isn't it?

    4. KPKristen Pressner45:34

       Yeah.

    5. APAlex Partridge45:34

       We've all been told that we should just try harder.

    6. KPKristen Pressner45:37

       Hmm.

    7. APAlex Partridge45:37

       Um, why... I've got my feelings. Why do you think that's heartbreaking for someone with ADHD to hear?

    8. KPKristen Pressner45:42

       Well, first of all, because it implies you're not trying really hard. Um, and I think that's what makes it so hard that this is invisible and so widely misunderstood, and why I feel like it's important to get the word out that people better understand it. Because in my experience, they're trying so hard. They're running twice as hard to get half as far. And so if s- if you were running twice as hard to get half as far, and someone says, "Try harder," how would that feel to you?

    9. APAlex Partridge46:13

       Hmm. Yeah, I mean, it's imp- it's, it's that invisible workload. I think you said, like, people with ADHD, I think, just try harder than neurotypical people full stop. But it's like that invisible workload, and it's so clear that effort isn't the missing variable. Like, we put so much effort in. That's why we're exhausted all the time. We go through this cycle of burnout, this feeling of just, "Ugh, I'm so useless." And that's the horrible internal feedback that, that many of us have. Neurotypical people have, like, this traffic light system. Imagine you've got these traffic lights outside of your head, and a task will come in, and it will, like, get stopped at the traffic light.

    10. KPKristen Pressner46:48

        [laughs]

    11. APAlex Partridge46:49

        It'll go, and the, the light will go green. One task will go in your head at any given time. [laughs] You action the task. You complete it, and then it leaves. And then the traffic light goes green again. One more task comes in. So you do one task at a time. People with ADHD, we don't have that traffic lights. We got bombarded with, like, 50, 60 different thoughts, 50, 60 different tasks at the same time, and it is incredibly effort, a huge effort to try and manage those, that overwhelm.

    12. KPKristen Pressner47:15

        Yeah.

    13. APAlex Partridge47:15

        And often, it just leads to paralysis.

    14. KPKristen Pressner47:17

        Yeah, I wish there was a way to visualize what it actually feels like inside y'all's head, right?

    15. APAlex Partridge47:23

        Hmm.

    16. KPKristen Pressner47:23

        Because I think there would be a lot more empathy and appreciation. This is what's so tricky about it being invisible, is that we can't tell how hard things are for each other.

    17. APAlex Partridge47:31

        Hmm.

    18. KPKristen Pressner47:32

        But try harder implies that the person isn't trying very hard. And in my experience, I often remember observing what feels like someone laying around scrolling on their phone or, you know, killing time, or even they would say, "I'm procrastinating." And it wasn't until the ADHD diagnosis came, and we better understood the ADHD brain and what will work and what won't work, that we realized, like, we don't use the word I'm procrastinating, I'm lazy, because that's not what the root cause is. The root cause is differences in neurotransmitters-

    19. APAlex Partridge48:05

        Hmm

    20. KPKristen Pressner48:05

        ... in a prefrontal cortex that have great benefits for the world, and but it's a brain that works differently. And I think us having a better understanding in the world that there are brains that work differently, and not, um, assuming that what I see equals what it would mean for me. If I sat on my phone all day scrolling when I should be doing something else, I might be being lazy. But if someone else is, that doesn't mean they're being lazy.

    21. APAlex Partridge48:30

        Hmm. Yes. If someone's with ADHD, and they're listening, and they are in a relationship, or they're in a family dynamic or in a workplace, and they, they are the recipient of that comment, "Just try harder," w- what advice would you have for someone in that situation? Is it a case of just signposting your colleague, your partner, your family members in the direction of, like, education so they can understand what's going on?

    22. KPKristen Pressner48:54

        Yeah, that's a hard one. I think, um-First of all, I think it's gotta start within the ADHDer to not be judging themself or feel shame. So to recognize that there is a, um, a difference in the brain, and that difference has very positive sides to it. It's not all negatives. Um, but the conditions in which, um, an ADHD brain will be lit up and will, will be able to shine are just different than average, and that's exactly why we're doing this podcast because we're talking about what's the conventional wisdom, why that doesn't maybe work for you, and what might, and it might be counterintuitive. Some of the stuff we said today might be counterintuitive, but the point is, it doesn't have to be intuitive. It has to work for you. And so instead of just try harder, if the person could understand, "In what circumstances do I thrive? What time of day?" Or, uh, "Do I need to see the visual timer, or do I need to body double?" Like, figuring out how to concoct, um, as much circumstances in which you can shine as possible, then the, the just try harder goes down because people see that you're able to be successful, and you're trying plenty hard.

    23. APAlex Partridge50:00

        Yes, absolutely. ADHD definitely isn't a lack of effort. It's effort towards the wrong systems, like systems that are designed for a non-ADHD brain.

    24. KPKristen Pressner50:12

        Yeah, exactly. I think, you know, I, I've looked in my own family because there was a, a point in time where, um, everyone was just basically holding on to survive, and it was because we were trying to throw all the conventional wisdom at them, and they were using all of their effort to try to make the conduc- conventional wisdom work for them. And when we pivoted to, "Aha, that doesn't work for you," and so what might, and we started to find what might work, it blew my mind, the thriving that came. And for me, it isn't, it, it was a, a big fundamental difference in our mindset and our approach, but it didn't cost a million dollars. It really was a matter of understanding, aha, these things don't work for you. No judgment. No shame. That is what will work for you. Let's try a few things and figure that out, and now let's set the conditions where you get as much of that as possible. And, like, the blossoming and the thriving that happened blew my mind, and that's partly why I wanted to give the TEDx talk to help everyone else understand that because the world needs that potential. The world needs those gifts, and I would argue, in a post-AI world, more than ever. The gifts that are associated with ADHD are differentiated and can't be done by AI. And so I think the, the time and the moment has come, but we need to all have a better understanding of how to enable that thriving.

    25. APAlex Partridge51:32

        I'm so pleased, Kristen, that we managed to sit down and have this conversation today. I know it's gonna be incredibly helpful, and to have a conversation with you when you're in town is, is a true honor. And I don't remember if we did the letter when you were last here to your younger self. We did do that?

    26. KPKristen Pressner51:46

        We did.

    27. APAlex Partridge51:47

        We're gonna do it again. [laughs]

    28. KPKristen Pressner51:48

        Okay, cool. Let's do it.

    29. APAlex Partridge51:49

        We've got a new letter. Um, every guest, uh, writes a letter to their younger self, and I'm gonna deliver to you the last letter-

    30. KPKristen Pressner51:55

        Ooh
13. 52:00 – 52:35

    A letter to my younger self

    1. KPKristen Pressner52:00

       When you're struggling with juggling the complexities of life, when you think you're a failure because you believe you're letting down everyone dependent on you, when you think you should have never taken that new opportunity, just remember that your strengths took you here.

    2. APAlex Partridge52:17

       Incredible. What a, what a finish, and I think on behalf of everyone listening and watching who is struggling and grappling to understand what advice they should pay attention to and what advice perhaps isn't right for their ADHD brains, a huge, huge thank you very much.

    3. KPKristen Pressner52:32

       Oh, thank you. [upbeat music]

Episode duration: 52:36