AuDHD Expert: What Female AuDHD ACTUALLY Feels Like, Abuse Will Find You!

1. 0:00 – 2:11

   Trailer

   1. SPSpeaker0:00

      ADHD and autism are on a spectrum of some sort. Something happens, this kind of drift between neurodivergent and neurotypical, and the dynamics change. As we kind of get older, it can be very, very tricky. Society says I need to have X amount of friends, and it's almost like this friendship is actually really unhealthy for me. However, I'd rather have this really unhealthy relationship than be completely on my own Dr Carly Jones MBE is a trailblazing influence in the ADHD and autism space With over 20 years of experience She has dedicated her life to making the world a better place for people with AuDHD When you're on autopilot, you're people-pleasing, and when you're people-pleasing, you lose all autonomy. You've gotta say yes because people smile, they grin, they're happy, and then we don't realize what we're getting ourselves into, and it gets deeper and deeper and deeper

   2. APAlex Partridge0:47

      There's a lot of push and pull, a lot of contrasting traits sometimes that can create challenges. But do you have any hacks that could bring them together harmoniously?

   3. SPSpeaker0:55

      I think it's gonna differ for everyone. For some people it might-

   4. APAlex Partridge0:59

      Huge announcement just before we start. Tickets to the ADHD Chatter Podcast LIVE theater show are selling fast. I'll be joined on stage by three leading psychiatrists, and we'll be unpacking all things ADHD, how to process a late diagnosis, AuDHD, and of course, the dreaded rejection sensitivity dysphoria. I really hope you can join me for a night full of validation, laughs, and insights, and one that will remind you that you're not broken, just different, and that you have always been enough. It's on the 19th of May in London. You can find a link to the tickets in the description. I can't wait to meet you in person. [upbeat music] Dr Carly Jones, welcome. A huge honor to have you here. This is the AuDHD episode I've been waiting a long time to have. I think there's a lot to cover, like what AuDHD feels like, how to know if somebody is AuDHD and not just ADHD, and also, like, the risks of being undiagnosed-

   5. SPSpeaker1:58

      Yeah

   6. APAlex Partridge1:58

      ... and how, if someone is living with AuDHD but not knowing it, what are the potential hidden consequences of that? So to start with, if someone's listening or watching and they have ADHD,

2. 2:11 – 4:17

   Signs of AuDHD

   1. APAlex Partridge2:12

      how might they know that they are also AuDHD?

   2. SPSpeaker2:16

      Oh, that's the million-dollar question, isn't it?

   3. APAlex Partridge2:18

      [laughs]

   4. SPSpeaker2:19

      I mean, some academics might say everyone's both. Some academics might say, "No, you're definitely this or definitely that." And I... And I wish I could answer it, and, and I don't know if I can, Alex, because also just as, as being autistic, um, you're not kind of fixed somewhere on the s- the spectrum. You might have higher daily care needs at the point of diagnosis or lower daily care needs at the point of diagnosis, but throughout the lifespan, that can completely change. And, um, being a woman that's almost 44, um, hormones have got to have something to do with it, and I've watched a few of your podcasts with some incredible, um, uh, ADHD women and doctors on. And something happens when you're perimenopausal. It's almost like my ADHD, I'm like, "Yes, I know you're there. Just sit down. Be quiet."

   5. APAlex Partridge3:09

      [laughs]

   6. SPSpeaker3:09

      "No, no, no, you know, I know you're there. I can manage this."

   7. APAlex Partridge3:11

      [laughs]

   8. SPSpeaker3:11

      And there's something that happens, and I don't think it's a bad thing. Um, but when you go into perimenopause, it's almost like your ADHD is like, "I'm here." Um, and I don't necessarily... I don't think that's an easy thing, but I don't think that's a bad thing, um, because it makes you, um, very good at not suffering fools anymore. And I'm... And, and I feel actually a bit annoyed with my ADHD traits, uh, because I'm like, "Come on, you could have kicked in a bit earlier, um, because you're-

   9. APAlex Partridge3:37

      [laughs]

   10. SPSpeaker3:37

       "... uh, you're quite... You're quite feisty. I quite like you." Um, so I wish I could answer that. I don't know. Um, I think ADHD and autism are, are, are on a spectrum of some sort, and I think it's the way that they're either your enemy or your friend throughout your life and how to navigate them. I'm not diagnosed with ADHD. I was diagnosed as autistic at 32. Um, I've always been aware there's been some hyperactive inattentive traits, um, and it's day by day as to what that might look like. So, um, it's a surprise for us all. [laughs]

   11. APAlex Partridge4:12

       [laughs] It's such a huge conversation. On, on the au- autism side, like,

3. 4:17 – 9:38

   Subtle signs of autism

   1. APAlex Partridge4:17

      do you think there are some traits of autism that are so subtle, like almost unrecognizable, that it could make someone go under the radar for so long?

   2. SPSpeaker4:30

      Yeah. So, um, let's assume we're thinking on the, the academics that think, "No, no, ADHD is one thing. Autism is another thing." If that were the case and they were... and there was kind of, you know, what to you would feel different, and I say this in a personal capacity, part of the diagnostic criteria for being diagnosed as autistic is having, um, daily, uh, daily challenges, um, which, which affects your everyday life with, with social imagination. So not traditional imagination. You know, there's some great poets, actors, and all, and all that, and dancers, whatever. Um, but that social imagination in a social context. This happens, I say this, someone else says this, this could be the consequence. Um, and that's personally for me what I struggle with most as being autistic. So that is my kind of primary, primary challenge, if you like. I've never been able to, in a personal capacity... In a professional capacity, I'm really good at it. Um, but in a personal capacity, I've never been able to mitigate risk for myself. I've only had to make tons and tons and tons of mistakes, been vulnerable tons and tons of times to go, "Oh, the last time this happened, or the last three times this happened..." As my mother used to always say, "Carly, you don't learn from your mistakes, you just make bigger ones."

   3. APAlex Partridge5:54

      [laughs]

   4. SPSpeaker5:54

      Um, is, is I've learnt from events, uh, and life experience to go, "Actually, in hindsight, um, Captain Hindsight, as they often say, then this isn't a good idea." So I actually think making mistakes and failing... is a beautiful thing, um, which I think gives you resilience, doesn't it? So I think it would be the social imagination part for me, and that's one of those things which is so hidden in plain sight to other people observing us, but for us it's all-consuming. My granny, she's dead now, but my granny was Northern. I won't try and do a Northern accent-

   5. APAlex Partridge6:34

      [laughs]

   6. SPSpeaker6:34

      ... 'cause I'm rubbish at it. And she used to call me many names, um, but she used to, i- in a, in a fun, nice Northern way, um, but she used to always say to me, "Oh, Carly, it's, um, there's nothing wrong with you, it's all them other buggers." I hope we're allowed, if we can say buggers. I just did. Sorry, Luke.

   7. APAlex Partridge6:49

      [laughs]

   8. SPSpeaker6:49

      Um, but, um, and she used to sit down and play this game with me as a child, which was the Consequence game. Have you ever played that?

   9. APAlex Partridge6:57

      No. How, what are the rules of that game?

   10. SPSpeaker6:59

       Um, so you have one, we would have one bit of paper and one pen, and I would write a sentence, first sentence to a story, fold it up so you can't see what I've just written, send, send it over to you, you'd write the next sentence, fold it up so I can't see it, and we'd do the whole A4 page of that. A- so at the end, it kind of looks like a concertinaed fan. We undo it and we read out the story, and it's funny 'cause it's a nonsense story, because I only know what's going on in my head, my agenda for the story, and similarly, you only know the story and the agenda in your head for that story. So it's a funny story. It doesn't make sense. And social imagination is very, very hard to describe to other people because if someone said to me, "Oh, talk to me about social imagination," it would be a bit like, um, asking somebody that's been blind since birth, "Tell me your favorite shades of purple." I don't know, right? So this, this game though I, I do sometimes with parents, um, if I'm doing any, uh, talks or training around social imagination because it, you really never know where something's going to end up. Um, and if you're playing that game with your granny or if we were to play it here together, it's, I know it's gonna be a lighthearted funny story. It's not gonna be dark and terrifying. Um, but I can't switch that off. That's every phone call, every WhatsApp message, every work meeting, every relationship, every everything. It's just acting on autopilot, um, and, and hoping for the best, um, which can lead you into terrible situations. And similarly, you might go, "I had no idea this story was gonna be so good," and you have to pick who's in your circle, I think.

   11. APAlex Partridge8:56

       Mm-hmm. I think it's such a relatable experience. You're putting out one version of yourself into the world, and that version is met with s- various responses, and especially if you're such an internalized person-

   12. SPSpeaker9:09

       Mm-hmm

   13. APAlex Partridge9:09

       ... and you feel like you're living inside your head sometimes, behind your eyes, and what the world is seeing is this version of you, this masked version of you. And I guess it probably over a, a time period does all fall into place and make sense, but it can be incredibly confusing and the source of such a disconnect between, like, how you feel about yourself and sometimes what messaging the world is giving you. Someone with AuDHD,

4. 9:38 – 15:55

   What AuDHD masking looks like

   1. APAlex Partridge9:38

      how might masking look like? Say a typical person with AuDHD goes to a party, like, what, what, what presentation might that look like?

   2. SPSpeaker9:49

      Um, I think it's gonna differ for everyone. For some people it might be, and you see that I'm clasping my hands at the moment, uh, and I know we get a break after half an hour, but I, I'm holding my hands, Alex.

   3. APAlex Partridge10:00

      We can have a break whenever you like. [laughs]

   4. SPSpeaker10:01

      No, no. No, no, I'm having a great time. I, I'm clasping my hands because that's my natural very subtle masking, because otherwise I'm like this all the time.

   5. APAlex Partridge10:11

      Mm.

   6. SPSpeaker10:12

      Um, and as a kid, I can remember, um, my, [laughs] I remember my mum saying to someone I was Italian, I think she said or something. "Oh, she's just Italian."

   7. APAlex Partridge10:18

      [laughs]

   8. SPSpeaker10:18

      Because people were like, "She's constantly flapping her hands." Well, I'm not Italian.

   9. APAlex Partridge10:21

      [laughs]

   10. SPSpeaker10:22

       I'm part Swedish and, and Welsh actually. But, you know, uh, it, uh, those sort of things, and that Dolmi- uh, Dolmio advert a few years ago. "It's Dolmio Day," and they used to say it was 'cause I used to flap my hands and had dark hair. But anyway, I, I'm, I'm rambling. Um, it could be something as small as I'm not going to flap my hands, I'm going to sit on my hands. And what happens after that? Start rocking, because I'm trying to not show my autistic self, and that has become very subconscious for me actually. Um, I'm getting more insight as I go along. Uh, it could be avoiding eye contact or trying to do eye contact, but instead of the... I mean, when do you look and when do you stop looking? Okay? So my doctor taught me to always look at people's noses. So I could probably identify people just by their noses now. I'm face blind.

   11. APAlex Partridge11:12

       [laughs]

   12. SPSpeaker11:12

       Anything else, just show me the nose because I'm only looking at noses or foreheads, you know. Um, those, those sort of things. So it could be as simple as trying to hide your stims, um, trying not to talk too much about your special interests. Now I just, you know, talk to me about black Labradors all day, trains, planes, um, which is ironic because they're very stereotypical male autistic interests. Um, and, and those sort of things. Uh, and also it can be quite physical as well, you know? Um, it could be I'm trying more now in my 40s to go, "Okay, well, I like this outfit, so therefore I'm gonna wear this outfit." And there are occasions where you have to go, "Well, out of politeness to the host, I'm gonna dress in a particular way 'cause that's obviously what the dress code is." Um, and I say obviously, Alex. I can remember getting my first black tie event-... invitation, and I wore a black tie.

   13. APAlex Partridge12:09

       [laughs]

   14. SPSpeaker12:09

       [laughs] That's the autism part

   15. APAlex Partridge12:12

       Well, why, why would you not? If that's what it says and if you're a literal thinker-

   16. SPSpeaker12:16

       Yeah, I had-

   17. APAlex Partridge12:17

       ... I mean, why would... That makes total sense.

   18. SPSpeaker12:18

       Yeah, I wore, I wore a black tie and a white shirt, 'cause I was like, "It's a black tie event, better find a black tie."

   19. APAlex Partridge12:23

       [laughs]

   20. SPSpeaker12:23

       And I had no idea what that means. So not obviously at all. I've made qui- quite a few mistakes, put that one in the mistake book so I don't repeat it. Um, uh, you know, or it could be, uh, makeup or it could be anything. And a lot of the time when I see particularly younger, um, younger people, um, and they might be kind of, uh, uh, very gothy or, or have a very certain, quite pronounced, uh, cool, absolutely cool, I think goths are cool, um, dress sense, I'm like, yeah, they're, they're probably autistic or, or ADHD, 'cause it's, that's a, you know, a really strong physical mask. Um, so it can look different for everyone. Uh, masking's a tricky thing though. It used to be a big enemy of mine in a way because, A, it's exhausting [laughs] if you're going to do that on a physical level. Um, and it's also exhausting if you're covering up your stims, 'cause we're doing it for some sort of reason, be that the ADHD and the hyperactivity or if that's an autistic stim or perhaps both. Uh, maybe this hand does the hyperactivity and this hand does the autism, who knows? Um, but exhausting mentally because every time you mask yourself, you erode a little bit more of your self-esteem. And if you're eroding your self-esteem, you're eroding your sense of self, and if you erode your sense of self, then you're gonna be really depressed.

   21. APAlex Partridge13:50

       And I guess when you don't have a sense of self, it's very hard to know what people are good for you, what jobs are good for you, what relationships are right for you. I very much relate to the masking, and specifically the eye contact.

   22. SPSpeaker14:08

       Mm-hmm.

   23. APAlex Partridge14:09

       Um, and I think when you struggle with eye contact and you force yourself to maintain it, and then when it's your turn to speak you just blank-

   24. SPSpeaker14:19

       Mm-hmm

   25. APAlex Partridge14:19

       ... and you don't know what to say, you genuinely feel like you're stupid, or I certainly do. And I feel like that, over years and years and years, it can really erode your self-confidence and your ability to put yourself in social situations. Like, I, I have a pen in my hand doing this chat today, and I think that is certainly my stim.

   26. SPSpeaker14:38

       Mm-hmm.

   27. APAlex Partridge14:38

       If I don't have a pen, I panic. [laughs]

   28. SPSpeaker14:40

       Yeah, yeah.

   29. APAlex Partridge14:40

       Like, what do I do with my hands now? And I guess that's probably masking. For me, wearing the same clothes every day, or I have multiple versions of this outfit, for me is unmasking. Uh, for, for... I used to feel like I had to wear different outfits every single day, and the amount of effort that that took in my brain to decide what to wear every day actually, like, took me away from my ability to think and to strategize and to, and to grow my business and the podcast. But when I actually just said to myself, "Actually, no, I'm gonna... I've found an outfit I like. It feels nice. [laughs] I like the materials. I'm gonna wear that every day," and I could just wake up, put it on, the amount of friction that was erased from my morning routine just, just by that, making that tiny adjustment. But I feel like if you don't have an awareness of all of these things we're talking about, and you, y- you carry on masking, you carry on putting that extra effort into, into deciding what to wear or, or maintaining eye contact, and you go on and on and on feeling broken, feeling misunderstood, feeling like there's genuinely something wrong with you because the consequence of, of not knowing what to say when it's your turn to speak in a conversation is met with an eye roll, or, "Did you hear what I just said, Alex?"

5. 15:55 – 22:05

   Consequences of undiagnosed AuDHD

   1. APAlex Partridge15:55

      Again. Like, what do you think are the long-term consequences of somebody being undiagnosed AuDHD?

   2. SPSpeaker16:04

      Well, the first point I'd like to say before that, I think you are exceptionally intelligent. I think you're really, really bright, and I saw this thing, 'cause I spend too much time on Instagram for women in their 40s. Um, I just love all the funny things.

   3. APAlex Partridge16:18

      [laughs]

   4. SPSpeaker16:18

      And I communicate by, like, sending them to friends and things. Um, and my daughters have sent each other some horrific things. Um, but, uh, y- I saw this kind of Reel and... Is that the word? I'm trying to be cool, Alex.

   5. APAlex Partridge16:31

      Yes, that's the one. [laughs]

   6. SPSpeaker16:32

      Yeah. [laughs]

   7. APAlex Partridge16:34

      Yeah. [laughs]

   8. SPSpeaker16:34

      Um, and it was, uh, something about, "Oh, I masked myself to be just like them and now they're calling me stupid." Don't dumb yourself down for the world, I think would be a good message to particularly younger, younger adults who are listening.

   9. APAlex Partridge16:47

      Mm.

   10. SPSpeaker16:47

       You don't have to... You know, I, I, I know of one autistic woman, and I'm not dissing Love Island. It's not my type of show. I like to watch the House of Commons live because I'm that cool.

   11. APAlex Partridge16:56

       [laughs]

   12. SPSpeaker16:57

       Um, but, um, but there was... I know of one autistic woman that noticed the girls at work in the lunchtime, all they spoke about was Love Island. So she hated Love Island, but she went home every night and watched Love Island and took notes and researched to then pretend that she liked Love Island so she could make friends at work. Um, and she was like, "Well, actually, I wanted to talk about science," or, "I wanted to talk about this bit of tech that I'm really interested in. But if I'd done that, they would've gone, 'Oh, she's a bit weird,' or, 'A bit different.'" Um, and so y- yeah, I think... And I'm not saying that people who watch Love Island are dumb. I know some very intelligent people that watch Love Island. But, um, but don't... Yeah, that, that makes me really sad. So I, that makes me really-

   13. APAlex Partridge17:37

       Mm

   14. SPSpeaker17:37

       ... really sad that, that, you know, you felt stupid. Um, and I think it's living authentically. You have to be... It takes a lot of bravery, 'cause you've, uh, particularly in the past, if there's been bullying or if there's been, um, times where being yourself has made you really vulnerable, it takes an awful lot of bravery to, to authentically be yourself and decide who, who, who's safe to do that around. And the question around, around the risk of that, I think there's a huge safe and obviously safeguarding special interest, even above black Labradors-

   15. APAlex Partridge18:13

       [laughs]

   16. SPSpeaker18:13

       ... um, which I don't have a black Labrador, by the way.

   17. APAlex Partridge18:15

       [laughs]

   18. SPSpeaker18:16

       Um, one day. One day it will happen. Um, is, um-You ... When you're on autopilot, you're people-pleasing, and when you're people-pleasing, you lose all autonomy. And it's so much easier if you're people-pleasing and your only focus is to, uh, survive this act, if you like, around people to fit in. You've gotta say yes, because saying yes, people smile, they nod, they grin, they're happy, and all you're thinking is, "Yeah, I'm winning at social, being social." Um, no, no comes with perhaps a loss of friendship. No comes with, um, you know, why not, and then this huge debate around why not, or potentially not being invited somewhere. And so people just say yes, right? And then we don't realize what we're getting ourselves into, and it gets deeper and deeper and deeper, um, and you fall too far in to fall back out, and I think there's a huge safeguarding there issue with masking as well.

   19. APAlex Partridge19:18

       I'm just ... I'm thinking about the, the, the l- the lady you mentioned who went home and watched Love Island. And so she literally changed her viewing habits in order to feel like she had some kind of input into the conversation at work.

   20. SPSpeaker19:31

       Yeah.

   21. APAlex Partridge19:31

       So she probably pulled herself away from a special interest or something that she really wanted to do that evening.

   22. SPSpeaker19:36

       Yeah.

   23. APAlex Partridge19:37

       And that is really sad. Do you think that people-pleasing element, that tendency to say yes and put yourself in situations that aren't aligned with what you are really passionate about, but you're saying yes to it, you're turning up to that event because you don't wanna let people down-

   24. SPSpeaker19:56

       Mm-hmm

   25. APAlex Partridge19:56

       ... can that particular characteristic create a vulnerability? And what might that vulnerability be towards if you're an AuDHD woman? Is that a risky area to be in?

   26. SPSpeaker20:12

       I think it can be. I think we're so misunderstood anyway. Um, we're so misunderstood, particularly we're masking a lot, be that through appearance or be that through the way that we might talk to, uh, talk with other people. Um, and then that, that misunderstand just gets wider and wider, and that was ... That was particularly tricky in my, in my 20s, um, you know, thinking, "Oh, well, this is what everyone else is doing, and, and I should go along with this," and, and e- you know, even more so in my, in my early teens as well, um, because you're not really living authentically. And just like that example of someone that's going to watch something they don't wanna watch, that's then kind of absorbed into their downtime, to their recovery time, their processing time. Um, and so vulnerabilities to mental health, for sure, um, vulner- vulnerabilities to happiness, and vulnerabilities in perhaps not meeting all the people you should have met. You know, there's that great quote, isn't it? Um, "I was blue, but I didn't tell anyone else I was blue, and there was somebody else that was blue, and they didn't tell anyone else, and we never met each other." Um, you know?

   27. APAlex Partridge21:22

       Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   28. SPSpeaker21:23

       So just go out there and, and be your-

   29. APAlex Partridge21:25

       Mm-hmm

   30. SPSpeaker21:26

       ... weird, weird, authentic self, and you're gonna meet the right people that should be in your world, um, because you're not people-pleasing. You're, you're being yourself, and that's tricky. And I say that as someone that's still rubbish at it.
6. 22:05 – 39:14

   The risk of being love bombed

   1. APAlex Partridge22:05

      if you're a, an AuDHD woman or an AuDHD man, and you have this tendency to put other peoples first, y- put other peoples' needs ahead of your own, like, how severely dangerous could that get?

   2. SPSpeaker22:19

      It's self-erasure, isn't it? You're erasing yourself, um, and kind of thinking, "Well, if you're around ... " I'm not saying that another person might be a particularly bad person, but somebody that's not suitable for you for X, Y, Z reasons, and you're kind of erasing yourself and thinking, "Well, I'll be less. I'll be less because they need more. I'll be less." And you could end up in some really sticky situations 'cause when does that stop? At what level does that stop? And if you ... Boundaries are a hard thing to learn for, for any person, um, but I think particularly for, um, autistic or women with ADHD. It's, um ... I mean, we're so vulnerable as it is. 91% of us experience sexual violence for the, um, you know, within our lives. Um, I think it was 52% of those before the age of 15. You know, we're so vulnerable anyway. It's ... I just think boundaries should be taught at school from a ... Boundaries and consent should be taught from a really e- for everyone, from a really early age and, you know, that, the power of the word no, um, in small situations-

   3. APAlex Partridge23:30

      Mm

   4. SPSpeaker23:30

      ... so then when larger situations happen, it's, it's not as new. Like, not this new world of, "Oh my gosh, I just-

   5. APAlex Partridge23:37

      Mm

   6. SPSpeaker23:37

      ... hit my first boundary."

   7. APAlex Partridge23:38

      Yeah. [laughs]

   8. SPSpeaker23:38

      You know? "Wow. [laughs] Let's get a cake." Um, you know, very tricky.

   9. APAlex Partridge23:44

      I suppose if you are somebody who's, who feels different, who feels broken, who has been told by probably so many people in their early years that, you know, "What's wrong with you? Why are you so sensitive?"

   10. SPSpeaker23:53

       Mm-hmm.

   11. APAlex Partridge23:54

       "Calm down," you feel like you're almost starved of praise, and positive comments, and nice messages. If you're someone like that, and, and we know that's heightened in the neurodivergent community, are you more susceptible to being love bombed, or-

   12. SPSpeaker24:12

       Oh, gosh, yeah

   13. APAlex Partridge24:13

       ... like, if someone ... Are you more ... Are you, like, the low-hanging fruit for a toxic person who might prey on that vulnerability?

   14. SPSpeaker24:24

       I, I tend to make jokes at inappropriate times because it's my coping mechanism, but, um, I have said to-... colleagues before who work in law enforcement, I've said, "You know, if you're trying to find a local predator and you're not sure who it is, just put us both in a nightclub at the same time. They'll find me in five minutes." It's almost as if it's on my front, you know, on my forehead, "Pick me." And I don't know why. And other autistic and, um, uh, ADHD women will have had very, very similar experiences. Um, I can't see the sign. Um, red roses, you know, someone came up to me with a bunch of red flags, they'll look like red roses to me. And I think there's this, from an autistic perspective, I do not know if someone's flirting with me, full stop. I'm not reading any body language. I'm- I'm not understanding the... I mean, first of all, I have n- no concept why anyone would- would want to flirt with me. I don't under- 'cause that's in their brain, that's not in my brain. I, and then I have no idea what flirting is. So the only way I'm going to know that, you know, and a- and gents might think, "Well, I've- I've done enough, and she's obviously not interested, I'll back off," yeah? 'Cause that's what gentlemen do. That's what nice guys do. The only way for me to know somebody is interested in me is that love bombing. Love bombing to me is kinda like mild flirting. Oh, that's quite... Oh, they must like me, 'cause they've literally directly said, uh, or X, Y, Z. Um, right, let's- let's get a house together. Oh, we've only known each other three months? Sure.

   15. APAlex Partridge25:55

       Mm.

   16. SPSpeaker25:55

       I'll sell my house.

   17. APAlex Partridge25:56

       Sure.

   18. SPSpeaker25:57

       Um, you know, uh, and I'm... So love bombing for me would- would feel like that, oh, they're interested. So I would not understand the subtleties. So, um, I'm not saying that men that are gentlemen should also become love bombers [laughs] . Please don't. But it, you know, direct comms. Can we just go back to, like, when we were seven and, um, uh, the boy at school would write you a note, and you had to, like, tick yes or no?

   19. APAlex Partridge26:21

       [laughs]

   20. SPSpeaker26:22

       I mean, it's the most autistic-friendly time to be alive, right?

   21. APAlex Partridge26:25

       [laughs]

   22. SPSpeaker26:25

       It's so clear.

   23. APAlex Partridge26:26

       Yeah, yeah.

   24. SPSpeaker26:26

       Um, kinda sweet, but if you ticked no, they wouldn't do it again. If we could just go back to that as adults, that would be great. Um, so I think it makes us incredibly vulnerable to that. And that kind of conditioning as well, completely unintentional conditioning. So in- in my, um, book, Safeguarding Autistic Girls, um, in there I- I- I write about this timeline of vulnerability, and I made a chart for it for the, uh, the Autism Act review that went through, um, for- for the House of Lords, and they very kindly published it on- on the government website. So it's kind of like the five stages of vulnerability, and I think this would absolutely apply to- to ADHD, uh, women as well, and- and men. Um, and- and within that timeline it- that starts with the early years. And let's say that you're the child in the- the car that's, uh, either fidgeting a lot, so it's, you know, um, you can see no one else is doing that, stop being so dramatic or- or whatever it might be. Um, or- or the child's like, "The m- the radio's really loud." "No, it's not. You're overreacting," um, because other people aren't experiencing it that way. And it's completely unintentional conditioning, unintentional gaslighting.

   25. APAlex Partridge27:40

       Mm.

   26. SPSpeaker27:41

       But you go into the world and you go into school at kind of five going, "I'm too much. I'm too loud. I'm too annoying maybe, 'cause I'm spinning around to Kate Bush with ring heights."

   27. APAlex Partridge27:52

       [laughs]

   28. SPSpeaker27:53

       Still do that, still do it with a pair of scarves in my hand.

   29. APAlex Partridge27:55

       [laughs]

   30. SPSpeaker27:55

       I'm so excited about the film, I cannot tell you. Um, so, um, that wasn't a plug, by the way.
7. 39:14 – 40:17

   Tiimo advert

   1. SPSpeaker39:14

      "Here's a plan."

   2. APAlex Partridge39:14

      A quick word from our sponsor. We've all had that nightmare. You're on that final warning from that friend. If you miss their birthday again, your friendship is over. Finito. And you do miss it. Even worse, you miss their wedding, and you were giving the speech, the speech you forgot to write. "I can change," you plead with them, and they say, "No, you can't." Well, actually, you can. How? Tiimo app, that's how. Tiimo app has organized me in a way that's made me unrecognizable to my nearest and dearest. What ADHD? Tiimo is designed by neurodivergent brains for neurodivergent brains, and you can tell. It's built to adapt to your neurodivergent way of thinking and be flexible to your way of planning. And now it's even more simple with the AI planning assistant. A simple voice prompt when you have to plan something, and the new AI planning assistant smoothly transcribes it into an easily digestible list of instructions to guide you. Give it a go, and use the link in my bio for 30% off. Just a note, though, this code is only applicable on the web browser, not on the smartphone. Back to the show.

8. 40:17 – 42:49

   Forgiving yourself

   1. APAlex Partridge40:17

      Is it part of the, the journey post-diagnosis or post-awareness and recognizing that you are neurodivergent, is there a huge amount of, like, self-forgiveness that goes on when you retrospectively look back and see some of the decisions that you made, particularly if you have a tendency of blaming yourself?

   2. SPSpeaker40:35

      I think, I think that's probably the most vital part of a diagnosis or at least self, self-awareness, self-identification. If, if... We all know diagnosis is a, is a huge privilege. Um, is being able to kind of put those new lenses on and go, "Okay, that wasn't... You know, I'm not a bad character," or, "That's not my shame to carry," or, "Yes, I... That was difficult," um, but now to, to learn from it and, and move on. I often think about particularly masking and after a diagnosis and trying to get back to your authentic self, and there's a great quote, I don't know who said it, it was on the internet, could've been anyone, um, but there's a great quote that says, um, "Remember who you are, who you were before the world got its hands on you." Love that. Just kind of who am I? And you need time alone to really think about that and to remember that. Um, and, and it's a, a bit like buying a house, buying an old house after diagnosis, and you get these keys and you open the door and, uh, you look at the wallpaper and think, "Oh, I'm not really sure I like that wallpaper." And this was always meant to be your house, right? It was like your dream house. Dreamt for this house since childhood. Open the door, don't like the wallpaper, I'll take that off. Oh gosh, there's another layer of wallpaper under it. Take that off. And you finally get past all these different layers down to the bare bricks of this house. You're like, why would anyone plaster board and wallpaper on that? Look at those exposed beams. Look at those bricks. This house is fine. Just... It's better than fine. It's beautiful just as it is. And that to me is how unmasking, and I don't think my unmasking's finished yet, but that to me is how it felt post-diagnosis, going, why were those layers of wallpaper put on there? To please the next owner? To go with a certain trend? To, um, so and so's got that wallpaper, so I better have it because that's the thing that everyone does, so I better fit in? And actually, like, it's fine as it is. What on earth? And I think the longer it is before you either self-identify or get your diagnosis as, um, of neurodivergency, it can... The, the more layers, the more exhausting, the more tears... the, the more revisiting you have to do

9. 42:49 – 44:41

   Grieving a late AuDHD diagnosis

   1. APAlex Partridge42:49

      Does the amount of grief go up the later you're diagnosed? Do you think, "Oh my gosh, I have lost so many years to masking"?

   2. SPSpeaker42:58

      I was diagnosed at 32, and I can remember thinking, oh yeah, I'll probably be able to unmask in maybe like six months or something. But actually, if you've been doing something for 32 years, [laughs] or at least, you know, I'm pretty sure I was masking by the age of about three or four, from some hilarious stories from my mother. Um, I think s- I think so. Yeah, think so. I think with masking as well, though, not to see it as the enemy, although it can have really significant impacts on, on our, on our wellbeing. Um, because I struggle with that social imagination and, and kind of knowing that social vulnerability, and I don't mind using vulnerability, some people don't like the word, I don't mind using it about myself. Um, masking could be my friend, because the moment that I notice that I'm really masking, I don't have a gut instinct, I just don't. I, I rely on facts and fact-finding. At work, it makes me really hypervigilant and to do- doing the right thing and making, doing due diligence because I'm not just gonna naturally have a feeling. I'm gonna go what I need to know, black and white, show me everything. So it's good at work. Personally, I can't go, "Right, I'm going to, uh, ring your ex-partner and ask for a reference." Might not be very reliable. Um, so, so work, but personal life not. And so instead of that gut feeling, I can't predict that, but now I know a lot more about myself and how I mask, the minute that I'm starting to notice that I'm masking, that's become a gut feeling. 'Cause I wouldn't be masking if I didn't feel safe and accepted, therefore I probably need to leave. So I've kind of gone, right, I can't get rid of this masking thing, but I can make it my friend, because I'm gonna put it to work. Yeah.

   3. APAlex Partridge44:40

      Very interesting.

10. 44:41 – 48:38

    RSD in AuDHD

    1. APAlex Partridge44:41

       One of the key drivers or motivators for masking seems to be to be almost bulletproof and invincible-

    2. SPSpeaker44:54

       Mm-hmm

    3. APAlex Partridge44:54

       ... or at least shielded from RSD. If I put out this version that's different to the, the inner child, the, the version of me that's been told 20,000 times that I'm too sensitive, not enough, too much, too dramatic, then I almost protect myself from criticisms.

    4. SPSpeaker45:08

       Mm-hmm.

    5. APAlex Partridge45:09

       RSD is brutal. It- it's a big c- conversation at the moment. How have you had RSD being described to you by people in the community?

    6. SPSpeaker45:17

       So other, um, friends and colleagues who, um, are diagnosed ADHD, and either aren't autistic or don't quite yet have that diagnosis, she says, winking and nudging-

    7. APAlex Partridge45:27

       [laughs]

    8. SPSpeaker45:27

       ... um, uh, the way they've described it is, you know, that kind of sense of what's the point of, of even putting that job application in or that promotion in, what's the point? Um, or I couldn't bear it if it was a no, so I'll just stay stagnant where I am because it feels safer. Um, or I won't, you know... On the negative side, but then also on the plus side, with, with that kind of rejection, I... And I've, I've obviously struggled with that myself. The way that I... I, I'm gonna lie if I say that I've sorted it, I haven't. Um, because what I'll do is go, "I'm gonna apply for everything, and I don't care if I get rejected. Um, I'm just gonna..." You know, the 10% rule. If you apply for 100 things, you'll get 10. If you apply for 1,000, you'll get 100. You know, all of that kind of... And I, and I, that's the kind of lie that my ego does.

    9. APAlex Partridge46:18

       [laughs]

    10. SPSpeaker46:18

        But actually my inner child, um, is I'm gonna apply for it and then I'm gonna self-sabotage it by, by applying for something else and going for that, so then I wouldn't have the time even if they did. So I haven't got over it, I've just learnt to go to the next level of-

    11. APAlex Partridge46:34

        [laughs]

    12. SPSpeaker46:35

        ... um, you know, feel the fear and do it anyway, and then self-sabotage it so it doesn't happen. Um, and I, if I apply for roles and I know it's a big jump, I know I can do it, and that's not out of, um, arrogance, it's out of I've done this work before, but not under this label. I know I can do it. And I'll send my covering letter to some really trusted colleagues of mine that are already at that level, and, and I'll say, "What do you think?" And they'll be like, "You've just literally spoken badly about yourself for the first three things." And I was like, "Oh, uh, that's because I just wanted to be honest." And they're like, "No, you're not honest in a, in a job interview. You don't have to be that honest." And I'm like, "Oh, okay." Um, or I've been in interviews where it's been down to the last two and, and somebody asked, it was a- about safeguarding, and, uh, I really wanted this job. Anyway, the panel said to me, you know, "There's you and there's the person in the waiting room. Why, why should we pick you?" And I said, "Well, I just care about this role so much. I want the best person for the job. If I'm not the best person, then please bring the other person in to, to do, to have this job," and they did. [laughs]

    13. APAlex Partridge47:41

        [laughs]

    14. SPSpeaker47:42

        But I was just being honest, you know. But also, I was being honest, but I was also self-sabotaging, because I couldn't fight for myself. That's where I need to kind of bring in my, uh, my, my trusted tribe. [laughs]

    15. APAlex Partridge47:54

        [laughs]

    16. SPSpeaker47:55

        I can't really call them guide dogs, that would be probably not the good thing, but that's kind of, you know, to come in and go, "She's not gonna say anything nice about herself, so we're gonna do it." Um, I, I don't think that will ever change. Yeah.

    17. APAlex Partridge48:07

        Is that a representation of the push and pull and the many internal contradictions that can come with having an AuDHD mind? I suppose on one hand you've got, like, the impulsivity of the ADHD and the, oh, that person perhaps said I couldn't do something, so I'm gonna now make it my entire personality to prove them wrong-

    18. SPSpeaker48:23

        [laughs]

    19. APAlex Partridge48:23

        ... and you, you go for it. You, you, you in the moment apply for that job. But then the other part of your brain takes over after some time has passed, and you get very anxious and perhaps, as you said, you self-sabotage. Is that

11. 48:38 – 51:11

    The AuDHD ‘push and pull’

    1. APAlex Partridge48:38

       an example of that push and pull that can come with having the complexities of an AuDHD mind?

    2. SPSpeaker48:44

       Um, absolutely, and I'm so glad you mentioned the push and pull. Uh, I often describe it as having to wake up and deciding if I'm gonna be autistic or hyperactive today.

    3. APAlex Partridge48:53

       [laughs]

    4. SPSpeaker48:53

       'Cause my, my routine hates my hyperactive sideAnd my hyperactive side hates my routine, so I just have to be quite transferable in, in those. And, and that push and pull as well, think about vulnerability in relationships, yeah? So a lot of vum- uh, um, toxic relationships start with that, that push and pull, push and pull, push and pull to get you addicted. If your brain is like that every day, that's just normal, yeah? Just like, "Ah, this relationship understands my brain. I've gotta come out of this with no hair, completely traumatized and in tears, but actually, dopamine's kicking."

    5. APAlex Partridge49:22

       [laughs]

    6. SPSpeaker49:23

       So I'm really glad you mentioned the push and pull, 'cause that was on my, my list of things to say, and now I've forgotten the question.

    7. APAlex Partridge49:28

       Yeah. [laughs]

    8. SPSpeaker49:29

       [laughs]

    9. APAlex Partridge49:29

       Well, no, I mean, you, you-

    10. SPSpeaker49:30

        Hyperactivity's taken over, Alex.

    11. APAlex Partridge49:31

        Yeah. [laughs]

    12. SPSpeaker49:32

        The mask is wearing off.

    13. APAlex Partridge49:34

        [laughs]

    14. SPSpeaker49:35

        Yay. [laughs]

    15. APAlex Partridge49:36

        I think you answered it perfectly. I think it wa- it was a brilliant example. I think... I was, I was gonna ask you what, what problems that push and pull could create, but I think you've set the stage perfectly with, with, with the relationship example.

    16. SPSpeaker49:47

        Mm-hmm.

    17. APAlex Partridge49:47

        And have you... Do you know anyone who's had that who might be undiagnosed or not aware-

    18. SPSpeaker49:53

        Mm-hmm

    19. APAlex Partridge49:53

        ... that they are AuDHD, or perhaps just ADHD or autistic, and, like, those push and pulls have caused such a crisis that actually it's been that point of crisis that's led them to seek an assessment for being neurodivergent?

    20. SPSpeaker50:07

        Yes. Yes, I have. Um, uh, I have seen that. Um, and I've seen that end in somebody going to- for support to the doctors, where it's evidently this double neuro-type push and pull for them to come out with some extremely powerful antidepressants. Um, and it's like, no. No. No, what, what the sadness and the confusion that this person having is because this push and pull needs some support. This is... It's almost like having a flower. They're only seeing the petals, they're not seeing the root cause, and, and that's very, very tricky. Um, particularly for our waiting lists as well.

    21. APAlex Partridge50:46

        Mm-hmm.

    22. SPSpeaker50:46

        And, and people to be in an absolute crisis before that being recognized, either by them or by people that are, are trying to take care of them. Um, yeah, really, it's really, really sad. Absolutely.

    23. APAlex Partridge51:01

        85% of the viewers and listeners of this podcast, Carly, are, are women.

    24. SPSpeaker51:06

        Mm-hmm.

    25. APAlex Partridge51:06

        And many have been let down and feel really angry at the fact that they were missed

12. 51:11 – 56:40

    Why women were missed

    1. APAlex Partridge51:11

       for so long. Why do you think women w- have been let down and missed for so long in this conversation?

    2. SPSpeaker51:17

       Um, great question. It's very much a m- that kind of male... I mean, psychology as a whole has been very male-centric for millennia. [laughs] I don't know when psychology started. Whenever it started-

    3. APAlex Partridge51:31

       [laughs]

    4. SPSpeaker51:32

       ... it's, it's, it's been quite male-centric. I think also as women, you know, we go to... You know, if I went into the GP and go, "I've got a broken leg," they'd be like, "Okay, and when was your last period?" I don't know why periods are like the, the epicenter-

    5. APAlex Partridge51:44

       [laughs]

    6. SPSpeaker51:44

       ... of a- all our ailments, um, which, which is always quite entertaining. Or, or, you know, if you're, um, a, a slightly bigger woman, you go into the hotspot with a broken arm, "Have you considered losing weight?" "No, I've just got a broken arm." And I don't know why, but I don't, I don't think, I don't think that generally happens to men. Um, so for, for women we're... it's always a, probably a, an us problem I think, just medically.

    7. APAlex Partridge52:06

       Mm-hmm.

    8. SPSpeaker52:06

       Um, so definitely. And, and also that gender, societal gender roles. You know, if you've got, um, if you've got a neurodivergent girl that comes home from school, runs upstairs and reads... gets into bed and reads Matilda, you'll be like, "Oh, how studious." If a boy was going, "Right, I'm gonna sneak upstairs and read my book," and all his friends are outside playing football, we're like, "Come on." You know, so it's kind of those expectations. And I think also, um, for women and girls, the, the expectation to be the fixer, the expectation to keep the peace, the expectation to, um, the expect... There's different expectations growing up, I, I believe, uh, for a, a sister as opposed to a brother. And, and a lot of that can also, I think, lead us to our neurodivergencies looking different. Yeah. But I think there's a lot of things, and also the d- the diagnostic tools being completely skewed towards, um, younger males, uh, and not necessarily for, um, for women. And I think neurodivergent people, we're all fixers, actually. Some of us, uh, regardless of gender, some of us, um, might be technicians, some of us might be engineers, um, some of us are psychologists, some of us are, are nurses or, um, or volunteers. Um, so sometimes people are fixing things literally, and some people are fixing the social fabric of the world. Saw this great thing, again online, I must get a life.

    9. APAlex Partridge53:45

       [laughs]

    10. SPSpeaker53:45

        Um, and it said, uh... And it's really s- kind of stereotypical, and I actually really like trains 'cause I work for the Department of Transport. But, um, it's, it was like, "What do autistic men want?" And it said, "Trains." "What do autistic women want?" "Complete judicial and police reform."

    11. APAlex Partridge54:00

        [laughs]

    12. SPSpeaker54:00

        And I was like, "Yeah."

    13. APAlex Partridge54:01

        Yes.

    14. SPSpeaker54:01

        "Nailed the head."

    15. APAlex Partridge54:02

        Yeah.

    16. SPSpeaker54:02

        "I'm crying for both of those." [laughs]

    17. APAlex Partridge54:05

        How big of a difference do you think having, A, a diagnosis or just an awareness makes to somebody's journey? Because I've spoken to many neurodivergent people, and pre-diagnosis they struggled with addiction-

    18. SPSpeaker54:18

        Mm-hmm

    19. APAlex Partridge54:18

        ... bad relationships, and post-diagnosis they had an awareness and then they were able to start making changes and mitigate some of the challenges, and life got considerably better. How severe can that pre-diagnosis car crash-

    20. SPSpeaker54:33

        Mm-hmm

    21. APAlex Partridge54:34

        ... compared to the post-diagnosis clarity, how extreme can those two get?

    22. SPSpeaker54:39

        I, I believe it can be black and white, day and night, but then I would say that as a black and white thinker, right? But, um, but it's... Oh, all this insight. This is it.

    23. APAlex Partridge54:48

        Mm-hmm.

    24. SPSpeaker54:48

        You get the insight to go, "Okay, well, I would think like that because that's my neurotype." And I, I think it's, it's so, so important because you can, you can ask for support, you can ask for help, and you actually know what you're dealing with. You've got a word for it, whatever that word or words may be. Um-Very, very important, but it's really also important that self-awareness, self-identification, I believe, is a human right that people get their diagnosis. But let's just say diagnosis didn't exist, right? Hopefully, that'll never happen, but let's just say they don't. Um, you're still protected by law, so the Equality Act 2010 is needs-led, not diagnosis led. You don't legally need a diagnosis or to show your diagnosis, which is quite good because mine's about the size of the Yellow Pages, I think, um, to, to someone to get those reasonable adjustments at work, those reasonable adjustments in education. So from a very logical... This is my autism side.

    25. APAlex Partridge55:47

        [laughs]

    26. SPSpeaker55:47

        My very logical part of my brain don't feel that it's gonna be a magic wand, and don't wait for that support. Don't wait to ask for those reasonable adjustments. My, uh, other side of my brain would say y- you, you need to know because then you can kind of put a, for yourself and that motional- that emotional side, you need to know, and that's why I think it's, it can completely change and save... I, I, when I was diagnosed, I sent a, uh, bunch of flowers to my doctor and said, uh, "Thank you for the first day of the rest of my life," and it was, absolutely was. There's still been vulnerabilities and, and, and horrible experiences past post-diagnosis, but you know what? It didn't go on for years. It was, "I'm out. This is done." Um, I learned boundaries. I learned what... You know, I learned everything because I knew and, um, and I was very, very lucky to have a great doctor. So it, it saves lives, yeah.

13. 56:40 – 1:09:44

    Advice for newly diagnosed AuDHD

    1. APAlex Partridge56:41

       Have you got any advice, Carly, for, for somebody watching or listening who is going through that moment of clarity now?

    2. SPSpeaker56:47

       Mm-hmm.

    3. APAlex Partridge56:47

       Perhaps they've known for some time that they are AuDHD, and then they're going through that new journey now of realizing, actually, autism is there, too. Any emotional advice for somebody dealing with that transition?

    4. SPSpeaker57:00

       I think it depends on the age as well. I hear from a lot of teenagers really sadly that, you know, um, autism's become like this derogatory term in the playground, and they're quite happy to talk about their ADHD amongst their peers, but they're not going to tell them that they're autistic as well, 'cause that's kind of seen as weird, whereas ADHD, um, in, in the playground is, is not seen as weird and sometimes a bit cool, you know? I'm not saying it's trendy.

    5. APAlex Partridge57:27

       Mm.

    6. SPSpeaker57:27

       It's very difficult saying or not. But s- so I think w- if either they've got that and they don't feel that they can talk about that, or they don't know that they're autistic as well yet, um, just be really, really kind to yourself. Um, and with their, maybe one day we'll know, but, uh, is it kind of 70% overlap between autism and ADHD? And it's huge-

    7. APAlex Partridge57:50

       Something like that

    8. SPSpeaker57:51

       ... isn't it?

    9. APAlex Partridge57:51

       Huge, yeah.

    10. SPSpeaker57:53

        You're not gonna be the only one of your ADHD friends that finds out a couple of years later you're autistic. [laughs]

    11. APAlex Partridge57:58

        [laughs]

    12. SPSpeaker57:58

        In fact, perhaps maybe 70% of them, you're not gonna be alone in that. And, um, and I, I still get... I think I'm quite good at, uh, spotting a fellow autistic-

    13. APAlex Partridge58:09

        Mm

    14. SPSpeaker58:09

        ... or AuDHD. Uh, uh, actually, I always get it the other way around, so either I'm really good at it and they don't know yet-

    15. APAlex Partridge58:16

        [laughs]

    16. SPSpeaker58:16

        ... or I'm really bad at it and I just get it the other way around 'cause I'm like, "Oh, you're autistic." They're like, "No, I'm ADHD." I'm like, "Okay." You're autistic.

    17. APAlex Partridge58:21

        What do you think some of the biggest tells are if, if, if someone's speaking to you and they... you think, "You're AuDHD"?

    18. SPSpeaker58:29

        Oh, okay. I can't say body language 'cause I'm really bad at reading that. Um, normally if we start a conversation and we're both at the same time having a, having a moving conversation, but we're both at some points bringing our special interest back into that conversation, I'm like, "There's some autism, isn't there?"

    19. APAlex Partridge58:53

        [laughs]

    20. SPSpeaker58:53

        And I actually really enjoy that because I love, I love being around other autistic people with special interest because, um, I'm like, I've just learnt loads, and I like in friendships or working relationships to either be the student or the teacher. Otherwise, we're just breathing the same air. How dull. I'd much rather be going, "Right, tell me everything about this thing that you're really into. Oh, my gosh, that's so cool." Or similarly, have someone that's going, "Tell me everything about this," and I love that, you know? I love that, that learning. It's, it's exciting. It feels like it's got purpose. Um, sometimes, uh, kind of like s- a lot of stimming going on. Sometimes people that hold pens. I'm joking, Alex. [laughs]

    21. APAlex Partridge59:34

        [laughs] Ding, ding, ding, ding.

    22. SPSpeaker59:36

        [laughs] Uh, Diet Coke is another one.

    23. APAlex Partridge59:39

        Yeah. [laughs]

    24. SPSpeaker59:39

        Oh, I shouldn't say a brand name. Fizzy Cola. If I tell people, if I just say Coke-

    25. APAlex Partridge59:42

        Yeah

    26. SPSpeaker59:42

        ... it's gonna-

    27. APAlex Partridge59:43

        It's okay. [laughs]

    28. SPSpeaker59:43

        ... get me really bad edit, right? Oh, yeah, Coke.

    29. APAlex Partridge59:45

        Yeah. [laughs]

    30. SPSpeaker59:46

        Um, those, tho- you know, it's like really weird things.
14. 1:09:44 – 1:12:27

    1st audience question

    1. APAlex Partridge1:09:44

       "My RSD is absolutely awful, and sometimes it's made me do the unthinkable. How can I combat this?"

    2. SPSpeaker1:09:53

       Oh, gosh. Um, I, I think it's one of those things, when, when we're trying to combat something, we then really, really focus on it, and focus on it more, which can make it even trickier. And I think maybe if, if you know that that's your, your biggest struggle is, is that rejection sensitivity, perhaps own it. Uh, and perhaps try the, um, the 10% rule, which, which is to go, okay, well, I'm going to apply for... You know, if you apply for 10 things, you've gotta get one yes. If you apply for 100, you've gotta get 10 yeses, that sort of thing. I'm rubbish at maths, so I'm not gonna go any higher than that, even though it's a round number.

    3. APAlex Partridge1:10:33

       [laughs]

    4. SPSpeaker1:10:34

       Um, it... Because if you kind of go, okay, well, rather than really, really overthinking on this one thing that I might get rejected for, I'm going to hedge my bets a bit, and, and actually plan for rejection, and then be pleasantly surprised. And a great... So I used to do some acting when I was younger. I was rubbish at it. Um, but, uh, the, one of the things that was also taught was, um, for, for every no leads you to the yes. So, um, you know, and, and if you, if you quit, you'll never get your yes type thing. It's quite pyramid-y scheme-y actually, isn't it?

    5. APAlex Partridge1:11:11

       [laughs]

    6. SPSpeaker1:11:11

       The entertainment world. [laughs]

    7. APAlex Partridge1:11:13

       Yeah.

    8. SPSpeaker1:11:13

       Keep going. Keep going.

    9. APAlex Partridge1:11:14

       Yeah.

    10. SPSpeaker1:11:14

        Next one's a yes. Next one a yes. It's not been a thought in years.

    11. APAlex Partridge1:11:17

        [laughs]

    12. SPSpeaker1:11:17

        You know, so, um, but, but kind of just accepting that it's going to happen, and, uh, it, but it, the rejection's gotta lead you to it. Redir- what's it? Rejection, redirection, not rejection.

    13. APAlex Partridge1:11:29

        Every rejection is a redirection towards what you really should be doing.

    14. SPSpeaker1:11:33

        Yeah. And also, it's a bit like, I love that film, Sliding Doors.

    15. APAlex Partridge1:11:38

        Yes.

    16. SPSpeaker1:11:38

        You know, sometimes-

    17. APAlex Partridge1:11:39

        Gwyneth Paltrow.

    18. SPSpeaker1:11:39

        Yeah.

    19. APAlex Partridge1:11:39

        Yeah.

    20. SPSpeaker1:11:40

        And I think rejection sometimes can be a blessing, a blessing that we never... Save us from something we didn't know we needed, we're gonna need saving from as well.

    21. APAlex Partridge1:11:47

        Mm.

    22. SPSpeaker1:11:48

        So sometimes to, to learn to love it.

    23. APAlex Partridge1:11:50

        I like to name my RSD. I call it Dave the Dragon because I feel like RSD is very real. Obviously, the pain is very true, but it's also not based in reality.

    24. SPSpeaker1:11:59

        Mm.

    25. APAlex Partridge1:11:59

        I'm not r- I'm not actually upset by what you've said today. I'm upset because what you've said has reminded me of all of those 20,000 horrible comments. So it's very real, but it's not based in reality, and I feel like if I name it a dragon, you know, I can see a picture of a dragon, but I also know dragons aren't real. And when you sort of-

    26. SPSpeaker1:12:14

        I love that

    27. APAlex Partridge1:12:14

        ... name it, you can disarm it and take away a lot of its power.

    28. SPSpeaker1:12:18

        I love that, because you know it's mythical.

    29. APAlex Partridge1:12:21

        Yeah, exactly.

    30. SPSpeaker1:12:21

        Yeah.
15. 1:12:27 – 1:13:33

    2nd audience question

    1. APAlex Partridge1:12:27

       "AuDHD has been hell for me. How can I get these conditions to be my friend, not my enemy?"

    2. SPSpeaker1:12:35

       I think it's a b- bit like the discussion about masking, and apply that to which other part of, um, of being autistic and, and, and ADHD, which, which is the, the biggest challenge for you. And obviously, there's a, there's great abilities and great challenges, isn't there, with kind of mixed neurotypes. Um, so a bit like how we said with the masking, it's... I, I, I'm never gonna be able to get rid of it, so I'm gonna have to make it my ally. Uh, and if it can't be your friend, at least it can be an ally, you know?

    3. APAlex Partridge1:13:01

       Mm.

    4. SPSpeaker1:13:02

       Um, and, and put it to work. And, and trying to perhaps reframe that into, "This is part of who I am. How can I make it work for me?" Rather than it being a host, make it an employee. [laughs]

    5. APAlex Partridge1:13:14

       Mm. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

    6. SPSpeaker1:13:14

       I'm going, "Right, come on. What are you gonna do?"

    7. APAlex Partridge1:13:16

       [laughs]

    8. SPSpeaker1:13:16

       Um, we, we've got, we're in this for life, so, uh-

    9. APAlex Partridge1:13:18

       Yeah. Oh, brilliant

    10. SPSpeaker1:13:19

        ... start, if th- you're in my head rent-free, start paying the rent, dude.

    11. APAlex Partridge1:13:23

        [laughs]

    12. SPSpeaker1:13:23

        You know? Um-And, and whatever, that's gonna be different for whoever writes it, but their biggest challenge-

    13. APAlex Partridge1:13:28

        Mm

    14. SPSpeaker1:13:28

        ... going, "Okay, how am I gonna make it work for me?"

    15. APAlex Partridge1:13:30

        Brilliant advice. Thank you so much, Carly. And finally,

16. 1:13:33 – 1:16:23

    3rd audience question

    1. APAlex Partridge1:13:33

       the most sought after question, "I'm undiagnosed, but I know I'm AuDHD."

    2. SPSpeaker1:13:39

       Mm.

    3. APAlex Partridge1:13:39

       "However, assessments are a nightmare. What can I do in the interim to stop my mind whirring out of control?"

    4. SPSpeaker1:13:48

       Okay, so I understand that whirring out of control feeling because it's almost as if the, the waiting lists weeds out the [laughs] the ones-

    5. APAlex Partridge1:13:58

       [laughs]

    6. SPSpeaker1:13:58

       ... that aren't anyway, you know? [laughs]

    7. APAlex Partridge1:14:00

       Yeah.

    8. SPSpeaker1:14:00

       Um, because it's, uh, it's that frus- that frustration. I mean, maybe, maybe when you're waiting, and you know, like, if you're ringing up or sending an email, right? Who's sending the most emails? Not to get... Just don't, you don't need to come in, we just know because you're really hyper-focusing on it. Um, I think knowing that the, the diagnosis isn't, unfortunately, gonna be a magic wand. I- if you're looking for medication or if you're in need of medication, then obviously, absolutely. But if, if you're not, then, um, you know, ask for those reasonable adjustments that you need now. Don't feel that you have to wait. Don't feel that you have to prove it.

    9. APAlex Partridge1:14:38

       Mm.

    10. SPSpeaker1:14:38

        And I think that's really interesting in that that kind of waiting, what we call in the NHS waiting well period, is if you've got rejection sensitivity, and then you go in to an assessment that you've waited for, and y- that you're then not diagnosed, even if you are, because it might be clinical inexperience or it might be that the bar's too high for that particular area, or, or all sorts of different things, or it might be somebody that isn't understanding the expression in women, for example. I mean, it's just going to be, you know, a, a, a punch in the stomach, isn't it?

    11. APAlex Partridge1:15:10

        Mm.

    12. SPSpeaker1:15:10

        You know, to, to say the least, it's gonna be horrendous. Um, so try and... Don't worry about the rejection of asking for help now or asking for reasonable adjustments now, and don't feel that you have to prove it. The only person really that should ever see your diagnostic report is you and your doctor. Um, and, and that's it. Um, we don't need to prove it. I mean, education system, uh, in empl- employment sectors, and obviously, if people are in receipt of benefit as well, are led to believe that I have to show everyone this report to prove it, and there's part of you that wants to prove it, but you absolutely don't have to prove it. Um, but y- you are worthy, um, in, in anything that you need to make life easier for you, uh, as a reasonable adjustment in education, employment, et cetera. And in a, in a personal capacity, um, that, you know, just go, "Well, I'm on the pathway to this diagnosis," or you don't even have to tell them about that, or just simply say, "This is what I need for this to work for me, and this is where my boundaries are, and this is where, where I, I might need some support." Just, uh, own it already.

    13. APAlex Partridge1:16:18

        Fantastic. Life-changing advice really, Carly.

    14. SPSpeaker1:16:21

        Oh, thank you.

    15. APAlex Partridge1:16:21

        Thank you ever so much.

    16. SPSpeaker1:16:22

        Thank you.

17. 1:16:23 – 1:18:11

    A letter to my younger self

    1. APAlex Partridge1:16:23

       Just finally, every guest writes a letter to their younger self.

    2. SPSpeaker1:16:27

       Oh, wow.

    3. APAlex Partridge1:16:27

       And what then happens is I deliver the past guest's letter to the current guest, which is yourself.

    4. SPSpeaker1:16:34

       Oh, gosh.

    5. APAlex Partridge1:16:34

       So I'm gonna deliver to you a letter.

    6. SPSpeaker1:16:37

       Oh, this is beautiful.

    7. APAlex Partridge1:16:38

       [laughs] I'm gonna deliver to you a letter-

    8. SPSpeaker1:16:42

       Oh

    9. APAlex Partridge1:16:42

       ... which the previous guest-

    10. SPSpeaker1:16:43

        It's green.

    11. APAlex Partridge1:16:44

        It's green. Oh, yeah, on brand.

    12. SPSpeaker1:16:45

        It's green.

    13. APAlex Partridge1:16:45

        Yeah. [laughs]

    14. SPSpeaker1:16:46

        Are they all green?

    15. APAlex Partridge1:16:47

        They're all green, yes.

    16. SPSpeaker1:16:48

        Oh.

    17. APAlex Partridge1:16:48

        Yeah.

    18. SPSpeaker1:16:48

        And there was me thinking I was just really lucky.

    19. APAlex Partridge1:16:50

        I thought it was red.

    20. SPSpeaker1:16:51

        Oh, I forgot.

    21. APAlex Partridge1:16:52

        [laughs]

    22. SPSpeaker1:16:52

        Sorry.

    23. APAlex Partridge1:16:53

        I'm only joking.

    24. SPSpeaker1:16:54

        Oh, this is so cool. Um, so the previous guest wrote, "To my younger self, remember that the most difficult challenges will lead you to great go- great growth. Put one foot in front of the other and trust in the process." That's gorgeous.

    25. APAlex Partridge1:17:08

        Very nice. Very nice.

    26. SPSpeaker1:17:09

        I'm loving the cards, Alex.

    27. APAlex Partridge1:17:11

        Thank you. That's where the budget goes. [laughs]

    28. SPSpeaker1:17:14

        [laughs] That is absolutely, and what a lovely reminder as well. Yeah.

    29. APAlex Partridge1:17:18

        Absolutely. Thank you, Carly. On behalf of everyone grappling to understand their brains, thank you ever so much.

    30. SPSpeaker1:17:27

        Thank you for having me, and thank you for making this show. And, um, how many thousand views is it now? 100,000? Was that last year, did you say?

Episode duration: 1:18:14