Neuroscientist (Dr Miguel): THIS Common Food Turns ADHD Into A Superpower, It's In Your Cupboard!

1. 0:00 – 4:11

   Trailer

   1. SPSpeaker0:00

      ADHD doesn't just live in the brain. Attention, executive function, it's almost like you picture ADHD as something that happens from the neck up, and you forget that it's a whole body, mind experience. It's not a matter of trying to fix your ADHD or to fix your autism. Your body has got different rhythms, and it's going to be different to somebody else's. You're not broken. Your rhythm is slightly different, and if you learn to work with it, there's going to be amazing things that you can achieve in life.

   2. APAlex Partridge0:26

      Dr. Miguel Toribio-Mateas is a renowned neuroscientist.

   3. SPSpeaker0:30

      With 25 years of experience. He's here to help you master your ADHD and autism. Using simple nutritional hacks. When we think about food, we think about what food is good for you, what food is bad for you. You lose the whole context that food is very emotional, it's very messy, and we are messy individuals living in a messy world. Just to try and make it all super clean and tidy, it doesn't quite work.

   4. APAlex Partridge0:52

      Are there things that you've discovered recently that your mind is blown when you find out about it?

   5. SPSpeaker0:57

      One of the most important things that I've been working on recently is

   6. APAlex Partridge1:02

      Huge announcement just before we start. Tickets to the ADHD Chatter podcast live theater show are selling fast. I'll be joined on stage by three leading psychiatrists, and we'll be unpacking all things ADHD, how to process a late diagnosis, AuDHD, and of course, the dreaded Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria. I really hope you can join me for a night full of validation, laughs, and insights, and one that will remind you that you're not broken, just different, and that you have always been enough. It's on the nineteenth of May in London. You can find a link to the tickets in the description. I can't wait to meet you in person. [upbeat music] Dr. Miguel, this is exciting. A neuroscientist, a real life neuroscientist in the ADHD Chatter studio. Not only that, a really, really nice one, and one that I know is capable of helping the ADHD Chatter community in a really digestible way. So thank you so much for being here.

   7. SPSpeaker1:58

      Thank you so much for having me. And one with ADHD and autism as well. So, you know-

   8. APAlex Partridge2:03

      Yes. Yeah [laughs]

   9. SPSpeaker2:03

      ... an autistic, ADHD, uh, neuroscientist.

   10. APAlex Partridge2:06

       One right at the cutting edge of, of the research as well, and one who is, who lives and breathes ADHD, autism, AuDHD, which we're gonna touch on a little bit later. A- as a neuroscientist, what is the one thing that you tell people about ADHD that still blows their mind every time you say it?

   11. SPSpeaker2:27

       I think the most important thing is that, uh, ADHD doesn't just live in the brain. So I think a lot of the conversation is about ADHD in, um, attention, executive function. It's almost like you, you picture ADHD as something that happens from the neck up, and you forget that it's a whole body, mind experience. And, uh, and your whole body's behaving in a slightly different way because your whole body is, um, uh, it's got the nervous system running through it. And the nervous, the nervous system is actually experiencing the world in a, in a different way, in a more sensitive way than a neurotypical nervous system.

   12. APAlex Partridge3:09

       If somebody is listening and they heard what you said and they think, "Um, no, I think ADHD is more just a brain condition," like, what would they learn if they stuck around for the next forty-five minutes or so? Why, why should that person hang around?

   13. SPSpeaker3:25

       Because, uh, your brain is part of the nervous system, so it's, it doesn't just function on its own. So then the brain is connected to your gut through the nervous system. The, the tip of your fingers are connected to the brain through the nervous system. So, uh, the way that you might want to eat or not eat or forget to eat or eat too much is a nervous system regulation response, and that's going to be, to a certain extent, determined by your neurotype, whether you're just ADHD, autistic, or a combination of both.

   14. APAlex Partridge4:00

       And as for your interest in the crossover between the mind and ADHD and neurodiversity, where did that begin for you

2. 4:11 – 6:04

   Dr Miguels ADHD mission

   1. APAlex Partridge4:11

      personally? What's your mission in this space?

   2. SPSpeaker4:15

      Well, my mission in this space is for people not to feel that they are broken, that there's something wrong with them. So I think we resonate because of that. Uh, it's not, uh, a matter of trying to fix your ADHD or to fix your autism or to heal it or to hack it. It's a matter of actually understanding that your rhythms in the body, just as the earth has got a night and a day and the rivers flow the right way and the sea has a, a tide that ebbs and flows, your body has got different rhythms. And, uh, and that is determined by biology, and our biology is going to be, um, influenced as well by our neurotype. So our neurotype is going to determine our own rhythm, and we were just talking before recording that sometimes if you're chatting to somebody who might happen to be neurodivergent as well, they might leave you on read for like a couple of days.

   3. APAlex Partridge5:10

      Yeah. [laughs] Yeah.

   4. SPSpeaker5:10

      And you think, "Okay, what's going on? It's fine." And then you kind of like pick up the conversation, and then you have like a burst of energy and you exchange a hundred messages and, you know, uh, reels and GIFs and everything else, and you have a laugh, and then you have a little break again, and that's your rhythm. And it's going to be different to somebody else's. It's going to be dif- certainly different to somebody who is neuro- neurotypical. And accepting that and working with your rhythm as opposed to feel shame because your rhythm is different is very important for me. Just putting that message out there that you're not broken, your rhythm is slightly different, and if you learn to work with it, there's going to be amazing things that you can achieve in life.

   5. APAlex Partridge5:53

      And as a neuroscientist yourself and a, and a doctor and someone who's completely devoted so much of their career to that crossover between n-Neurochemistry and, and nutrition,

3. 6:04 – 10:14

   Dr Miguels latest ADHD discovery

   1. APAlex Partridge6:04

      are there things that you've discovered recently that even your mind is blown when you find out about it?

   2. SPSpeaker6:11

      Um, yeah. Um, for me, I think one of the most important things that I've been working on recently is on the nutrition front, we tend to think about foods that are good or bad for something. Uh, and, and that's kind of okay, but it can be limiting, and it can also f- be a source of shame. And you know, and you've just written a book about RSD. You know, RSD is, is, is shame, isn't it? Is kind of like guilt and feeling that, you know, you don't fit in. So in a way, the last thing I want with a nutrition conversation is for somebody to feel shameful because they have not chosen the right food that Dr. Miguel is talking about, or that they need to have more of this or less of that. So all of that, when we think about eating healthily, it's literally it's about executive function. It's about how much cognitive power you have in, on, on that particular, uh, day. In that particular moment, are you ready to go to the supermarket to do your shopping, to come back, chop the vegetables, uh, prep them, uh, cook them, freeze them, batch cooking? All of this sounds amazing, but, uh, you could be on a day that you think, you know, I've heard you say these things before, on a day you wake up and you say, "I'm going to fund this company. I'm going to buy like 100 different URLs-"

   3. APAlex Partridge7:30

      Yeah. [laughs]

   4. SPSpeaker7:30

      "... and, you know, and register them," and all of that. And then the next day you forget about that, and you go and do something else. You completely abandon that, that project, and you go and do something else. That's part of your story that you've shared with your, with-

   5. APAlex Partridge7:42

      Mm-hmm

   6. SPSpeaker7:42

      ... with your audience. Well, this happens to the brain as well. Every day we have that story going on when we go and decide what do we eat. So are we going to prepare ourselves this wholesome food that we know? Everybody kind of knows what healthy eating is really in 2026. There's so much information out there. But have you got the cognitive capacity to do all of the steps, you know, to plan, to chop, to ex- to execute the meal, to, you know? And have you got the ability to repeat that process throughout the week? Because you know, with ADHD, with AuDHD, with autism, we're going to have peaks and valleys of that kind of a cognitive-

   7. APAlex Partridge8:23

      Mm

   8. SPSpeaker8:23

      ... ability, and it may be that Monday is the perfect day. You've done everything. You've did your batch cooking on the Sunday. You know, you've eaten all the healthy meals and everything else. But Tuesday's a bit of a dodgy day, and all you can muster is something pre-prepared from the supermarket. Are you going to feel really guilty about that, or are you going to say, "Right, what was the choice?" The choice was that I wasn't gonna eat 'cause I was... I for- I tend to forget to eat. Maybe some people do, if you're a mess or, you know, you're busy. Um, or I was going to eat something that was going to be even naughtier, in inverted commas. So having the ready-made soup from the supermarket that has got maybe a couple of ingredients that people might question on social media, is that going to throw everything out of the window? Maybe not. And just a humane, compassionate way of looking at nutrition, I think, is very important that takes that into account, that nutrition is not just about the right foods, it's about the capacity you have as an individual to, to choose them and to implement them in your life.

   9. APAlex Partridge9:30

      Mm. I'm so pleased that you came on, Dr. Miguel, because I think for me, eating is such a uphill battle.

   10. SPSpeaker9:38

       Yeah.

   11. APAlex Partridge9:38

       Like, specifically having to decide what to eat every single day.

   12. SPSpeaker9:42

       Mm-hmm.

   13. APAlex Partridge9:43

       And it just takes up so much mental energy. The amount of times I've almost dreaded dinnertime approaching, because for me that is like, okay, now I need to think.

   14. SPSpeaker9:53

       Mm-hmm.

   15. APAlex Partridge9:53

       I need to decide what I wanna eat. I need to go to the supermarket. I need to buy all of the different ingredients to make this thing that I've been told is healthy, and it's just exhausting. And that's just one day, and then it repeats, and it repeats. Like, if someone is struggling with, with consistency, and they do find the idea of c- eating well exhausting and having to make good decisions, like

4. 10:14 – 13:25

   ADHD nutritional advice

   1. APAlex Partridge10:14

      what, what... Somebody in that position, what is some advice that would make their life easier?

   2. SPSpeaker10:19

      I think thinking about nutrition as a wardrobe, and you have your, your basic stuff that you like to wear all the time. And, uh, I had to say to my other half the other day, "I need to go shopping for some shirts," because I've been on a few podcasts recently, and, uh, my autistic brain wants to wear the same shirt every time-

   3. APAlex Partridge10:38

      [laughs]

   4. SPSpeaker10:38

      ... 'cause it's soft and, like, you know, it feels nice on the skin and, you know. And, uh, and we have this joke going on in my house as well, 'cause, like, my mom is the same. Like, she's got like 100 dresses, but she's always wearing the same kind of like-

   5. APAlex Partridge10:51

      [laughs]

   6. SPSpeaker10:52

      ... worn out T-shirt or worn out jumper or something. And you ask her why, and she says, "Oh, I really like it 'cause it's very soft." And we know about that sensitivity. That's part of the, the story in-

   7. APAlex Partridge11:02

      Mm

   8. SPSpeaker11:02

      ... in neurodivergence. So if you have that, that basic wardrobe that has got the jean, your preferred jeans and your preferred jumper and your T-shirt and blah, blah, and you like them because they give you comfort, that shouldn't be knocked off. It shouldn't be something that's going to be a source of blame. It should be something that is there, and you use them as anchors. 'Cause your nervous system is constantly asking itself, "Am I safe in a situation?" I'm sat here, my nervous system is scanning, thinking, "Do I trust you? Do I trust the setting? Am I happy to open up?" You know, all of those things are happening 24/7. So they're happening around food as well. So your nervous system is saying, "What do I need now? Do I need comfort? Uh, am I happy to be a bit more adventurous and maybe add something that's a different texture that I haven't been happy to try before? Maybe a different flavor?" So I think keep the foods that you feel safe with as your anchors, and then rather than overhaul your whole diet because somebody on Instagram says, "Oh, you know, this is the latest thing," or, "This is the latest superfood-"Sprinkle of this and a sprinkle of that is a much better strategy because at the end of the day, as you say, it's an everyday thing. It's not a diet for a week that then, you know, you've done it and that's it. It's a, it's a diet for life, and if you're gonna have to live with that diet for the rest of your life, how do you adapt it so it becomes second nature, like learning to ride a bike or, or drive a car, so you don't need to overthink it every single time? Uh, so it could just be simple things that I'm sure we're going to be talking about. I don't want to, like, burn all, all my gunpowder at once. [laughs]

   9. APAlex Partridge12:44

      [laughs] No, it's honestly fascinating. I think, without even realizing it, I think my anchor has always been pasta, tuna, and cheese-

   10. SPSpeaker12:54

       Mm-hmm

   11. APAlex Partridge12:54

       ... with jalapenos, and the jalapenos have to be dry and not stored in liquid, so they're crunchy.

   12. SPSpeaker13:00

       Yeah.

   13. APAlex Partridge13:00

       And that crunch gives me the sort of offset against the, the, the soft pasta and the, the, the s- sort of soft tuna as well. I, I, I'm similar to you. I mean, I, I wear this outfit all of the time.

   14. SPSpeaker13:11

       I've seen you.

   15. APAlex Partridge13:12

       [laughs]

   16. SPSpeaker13:12

       I mean, have you washed it recently? [laughs]

   17. APAlex Partridge13:14

       Yeah, so I, I, that's the, that's the th- I have, like, six or seven versions of the same outfit because I-

   18. SPSpeaker13:19

       [laughs]

   19. APAlex Partridge13:19

       ... I, I love the T-shirt. This jacket is really nice, and I feel safe in it. And I suppose,

5. 13:25 – 19:04

   How to navigate food sensory challenges

   1. APAlex Partridge13:25

      like, the sensitivities and the softness and I suppose the, the, the sensory challenges-

   2. SPSpeaker13:30

      Mm-hmm

   3. APAlex Partridge13:30

      ... and the textures, how does that complicate the, the f- the nutrition landscape for somebody who pot- who potentially has sensory challenges when they come to deciding what they want to eat?

   4. SPSpeaker13:41

      Well, it, it does complicate it a lot, and the thing is that one of the things that I've been working on recently for the last year, and, uh, I'm writing some papers about it, uh, that I hope to publish this year, the first one. Uh, and, and, and along with that, there's going to be a set of different questionnaires that are specifically designed to ascertain these kind of, uh, aspects in a, for a neurodivergent person because nutrition advice has been issued for neurotypical people. You know, until probably, like, very recently, we're starting to, to touch the, the very, very tip of the iceberg on, on this to be aware of the fact that maybe neuro- neurodivergent people have different needs when it comes to nutrition. And it's not about the foods need to be different. It's the fact that, as you say, we have sensory sensitivities, and again, there may be cliches that we just avoid, but know we are seekers as well, or we could be a mix of both. I could avoid something like the plague because it's, like, very alien to me. Like, the smell of something already puts me off. But then I'm obsessed with something else that's very spicy. And, like, my food in general is quite spicy. I cannot really do bland, but in some cases, I really feel like bland because that's comforting, and, and I wouldn't think of adding chili to that particular meal because that meal is safe and comforting, and if I added chili, it would spoil it. Uh, so you know what I'm talking about.

   5. APAlex Partridge15:08

      Mm.

   6. SPSpeaker15:08

      Is this, it's, it's down to the minute thing of the chilis need to be dry, so they are crunchy. So you need that crunchiness to regulate your nervous system, and what... Show me a nutrition book that tells you about that because there's no dietetic or nutrition book that tells you about that. None. There's no... There's literally, like, very little published in, in general scientific literature about that kind of thing. Of course, we do know about sensory avoidance in children, in autistic children. We know about, you know, picky children due to sensory sensitivities and so on, but it's limited to that particular niche. And, and what we don't know or we don- we, we're starting to realize now is that those children grow into adults. We do know if you were picky about the crunchiness of something when you were five years old, you suddenly don't become a 50-year- 50-year-old who likes everything. You're going to be picky about something else as well. So yeah. Does that answer your question?

   7. APAlex Partridge16:15

      Yeah, it does. Yeah. I mean, it has made me think because I never thought that texture with food was a block sometimes. Like, if someone gives me scrambled egg on something soft-

   8. SPSpeaker16:26

      Yeah

   9. APAlex Partridge16:27

      ... then I can't eat it. But if it's on-

   10. SPSpeaker16:28

       No, me no- me neither. It has to have something-

   11. APAlex Partridge16:30

       Like toast

   12. SPSpeaker16:31

       ... like a toast.

   13. APAlex Partridge16:31

       Yeah, like-

   14. SPSpeaker16:31

       Like sourdough toast that is kind of like crunchy

   15. APAlex Partridge16:34

       ... almost well-done toast.

   16. SPSpeaker16:34

       Yeah, yeah.

   17. APAlex Partridge16:34

       So it's really... And it offsets the-

   18. SPSpeaker16:36

       Yeah, absolutely

   19. APAlex Partridge16:37

       ... the softness of the scrambled egg.

   20. SPSpeaker16:38

       Yeah, yeah, yeah. If it, if the scrambled egg was on kind of a, some sloppy vegetable that I would maybe love if, if it was with something else as a side.

   21. APAlex Partridge16:47

       Mm.

   22. SPSpeaker16:47

       But that combination is kind of like icky for me. I just look at it, and I'm already thinking, "Oh, my God, this is not going to satisfy me." And from a nutritional point of view, it's got all the macros, so it's got the protein, and it's got the fiber and the polyphenols and everything else. So I'm thinking gut-brain connection-

   23. APAlex Partridge17:03

       Mm

   24. SPSpeaker17:04

       ... muscle, you know, power for my... You know, so I don't get, uh, hungry, so I get kind of a, you know, a good protein intake, so, uh, my blood sugar is regulated. So all of that is kind of, like, ticking in. But all of those considerations are neurotypical considerations, so what we haven't actually considered is that nutrition as a whole is very neuronormative. The norms of nutrition have been kind of a white, colonial, neuronormative for as long as they have been around.

   25. APAlex Partridge17:36

       Mm.

   26. SPSpeaker17:36

       They haven't actually considered the, you know, the ins and outs of ethnic origin of people that may actually, you know... I had a, a student last year who did a very interesting project, and, uh, she was talking about how in Bangladesh, um, if you have, um... She was from Bangladeshi origin, and in Bangladesh, if you have cooked rice the previous day, you don't eat it the following day because it's considered to be dirty, whereas we talk about rice cooked the previous day as a source of resistant starch. And we were talking about how resistant starch is good for your microbiome, and your gut microbes love it, and, you know, it's like a source of a undigestible fiber in a way that is good for your gut, and it's, it comes from-Some carbs that have been cooked and then cooled down, like rice or potatoes or pasta. But we haven't actually stopped to think that in some cultures, that is kind of like taboo. You don't do that. You know, how dare you give me like rice from the day before in Bangladesh-

   27. APAlex Partridge18:33

       [laughs]

   28. SPSpeaker18:33

       ... thinking that it's going to be good for me. Well, it's the same thing, you know. If we extrapolate that to another, um, audience that is neurodivergent people, what do we, uh, value that for us would be outrageous, but maybe for a neurotypical person they would be all over it and, you know, lap it up.

   29. APAlex Partridge18:52

       This is super interesting, and I love that we're getting a bit geeky now, and I, I wanna-

   30. SPSpeaker18:56

       [laughs] I always get geeky.
6. 19:04 – 23:22

   The ADHD brain gut connection

   1. SPSpeaker19:04

      Yeah.

   2. APAlex Partridge19:04

      So you mentioned neurotypicals and that brain gut connection.

   3. SPSpeaker19:08

      Yeah.

   4. APAlex Partridge19:08

      So is that different, the brain gut connection, for a neurotypical as it is for someone with ADHD?

   5. SPSpeaker19:16

      It will be on the basis that, uh, okay, so it will be and, and it won't be in a sense. You know, there is no ADHD, uh, clear signature that would allow me to just look at somebody's poo sample and say, "Oh, he's got ADHD," versus somebody who doesn't. Because the literature is so mixed, it's very heterogeneous, it's not clear enough to say, "Oh, somebody with ADHD has got a lot of this, and very little bifidobacterium or very little lactobacillus or something, and that's a clear, clear picture." There may be pockets of, uh, literature that are telling us a bit of the story, but the story's not completely clear. It's almost like trying to be a clairvoyant looking into a crystal ball, and you get a glimpse, but you don't get the whole story. So you get a little, you know, it's like a crap clai- clairvoyant, you know? You-

   6. APAlex Partridge20:05

      Hmm. I see.

   7. SPSpeaker20:05

      I want my money back-

   8. APAlex Partridge20:06

      Yes

   9. SPSpeaker20:06

      ... because you haven't told me the future.

   10. APAlex Partridge20:08

       Makes sense.

   11. SPSpeaker20:08

       And the situation is a little bit like that. And also, you need to take into account a lot of the research is done in small samples.

   12. APAlex Partridge20:15

       Yes.

   13. SPSpeaker20:15

       So you have studies on like 50 people at the time, 100 people at the time. We haven't got really big organized studies on thousands of ADHD people at the time, comparing them with thousands of non-ADHD people. But what we do know is that there may be quirks in, in not only the, the composition of those microbes that live in the gut, so are they different to somebody else's with, without ADHD, but also how they function, and that's really important as well, and that's ... That now we know that you could have an identical microbe. You could have something called Faecalibacterium that makes butyrate, which is this, um, fatty acid that, um, uh, nourishes the gut lining, so it makes the gut lining healthy. It makes the ecosystem in the gut healthy. But it also helps with mental health. It is like, um, uh, an anti-inflammatory waxy molecule that smooths out the edges of, of mental health conditions in the brain, 'cause it travels through the blood and the vagus nerve into the brain, and it can do positive things in the brain. We do tend to know from the literature that in an ADHD or an autistic brain or a combination of both, and in other flavors of neurodivergence, there may be a lack of two things, the microbes that actually make that butyrate, so that Faecalibacterium may be lower, but also you could have a s- sleepy Faecalibacterium. So you could have one that is almost the same level as somebody who's neurotypical, but is a bit, is struggling to make enough butyrate. So on paper, if you just look at the abundance, you could say, "Oh, it's the same." But when you look deeper into what they do, you could have like, you know, an identical, you could have a, um, doppelganger. You know-

   14. APAlex Partridge22:10

       [laughs]

   15. SPSpeaker22:10

       ... somebody who looks identical to you, but then they do completely different things. You know? So or like an identical twin, but they have a different personality, so it's a little bit like that.

   16. APAlex Partridge22:21

       Hmm.

   17. SPSpeaker22:21

       Um, so yeah. So there, there is that. There is all of that going on. And, uh, and then the brain in a neurotypical person might not look completely different to the brain in an ADHD or an autistic person when you look at some imaging, but the way that the brain functions, which is not so easily seen in, in, in imaging, is going to be a different story. So there are ... It's a nuance. I know that you want clear answers, but like the science is very nuanced.

   18. APAlex Partridge22:49

       No, that's what we want. We want, we want, we want to unpick your brain and to, to, to, to absorb some of the, the amazing stuff that you've learned. I mean, leaning on from that, if someone has ADHD or autism or AuDHD, like if they really wanted to lean into tr- trying to maximize the benefits of, of, of a, a diet to help them manage their ADHD, are there any nutritional precautions they should take? Is there anything that they should be avoiding?

   19. SPSpeaker23:17

       I wouldn't say so much precautions. I would say, um,

7. 23:22 – 27:02

   ADHD friendly food

   1. SPSpeaker23:22

      trying to prioritize perhaps some foods that we know from the research out there that have been seen to help support the system as a whole. So rather than act- actually trying to avoid certain foods or to just, uh, only include foods and then make it all quite regimented, because then we fall back into the same trap as we were talking about before. You might have a day that you find it very easy to stick to all the rules that you have created for yourself, and you might have another day that you find it completely difficult, and then you self-sabotage, and then you feel guilty because you self-sabotaged, and then you repeat the cycle, and that could lead to either not eating, which happens, or to bingeing, which happens as well, and then feeling crap because you've done that. So we want to avoid all of that. So rather than precautions, I would say we know from literature that certain food groups areReally supportive. So protein, for example, particularly early in the day. Why? Because it's going to set you off for the day in terms of, uh, your base levels of how you can control your blood sugar in your body. And, uh, one of the reasons why you might find it difficult to stick to eating healthily, so to speak, or have, um, cravings and so on, is because we might have a, a bit of a sugar dip. So we might think, "Oh, what's going to give me sugar?" The brain is thinking, "Give me some sugar so I can function." And you're gonna think, you know, like a chocolate bar or a snack, you know. It could be like a healthy-looking snack, but it's got a lot of sugar added to it. Uh, you might think, you know, quick pasta or, you know, rice or bread, and there's nothing wrong with any of those things. But, uh, ideally you should be thinking protein in the day, early in the day, is going to allow you to stick to your, your, your kind of, uh... How should I say this? To your, to your best intentions, so to speak.

   2. APAlex Partridge25:27

      Hmm.

   3. SPSpeaker25:28

      Uh, and mix this with fiber as well. So where are you going to get fiber? Fruits, vegetables. Am I going to give you a list of better fruits and a lit- a list of better vegetables? I could do, but, you know, I think, think color as opposed to anything else because the more colorful the vegetable, the more it's going to have not only just the fiber, but these things called polyphenols, which are antioxidants. They also nourish the gut microbes in, you know, in your intestines and, and those are going to, uh, um, then by, uh, by metabolizing, by digesting those, uh, uh, colors and fiber are going to make substances that nourish not only your gut, but your brain as well. So I would think protein, fiber, and also some healthy fats. So healthy fats, so if you eat fish, tinned fish is super easy. It's, uh, it's accessible, so not everybody's got a lot of money to just go to the fishmongers and, like, you know, and also the cognitive capacity to go fishmongers, prepare the fish, serve it, make it look pretty, blah, blah. A tin of sardines on toast is going to give you loads of Omega-3, loads of, uh, protein. It's, um, accessible, it's economical, and you've kind of like ticked two boxes in there as well. So try and think of the basics that we know from the literature that are going to support your whole system, as opposed to think, "Oh, I need to be prioritizing that so much," or, "I need to be avoiding that so much." 'Cause I think it's healthier to think in those terms.

8. 27:02 – 29:25

   Tiimo advert

   1. APAlex Partridge27:02

      So sorry to interrupt your hyperfocus, but I finally found an app that actually works. I've been using Tiimo way before they became a sponsor, and it's changed me as a person. I've got organizational skills that even make neurotypical people jealous. Let me explain. Tiimo wasn't named App of the Year in 2025 for no reason. It's the ultimate planning partner, gently guiding you towards busting your day-to-day chores list. The important difference is Tiimo is designed by neurodivergent brains for neurodivergent brains, and you can tell. It's built to adapt to your neurodivergent way of thinking and be flexible to your way of planning, and now it's even more simple with the AI planning assistant. Tiimo offers an incredible new voice transcribing service, making it even easier to use. It's almost so simple that it feels like a cheat code to play life on easy mode. A simple voice prompt when you have to plan something, and the new AI planning assistant smoothly transcribes it into an easily digestible list of instructions to guide you. No more flailing from decision paralysis. The new AI planning assistant makes it so quick and easy to insert information, you can do it before you've forgotten or been distracted. Give it a go, and use the link in the episode description for 30% off. Just a note, though, this code is only applicable on the web browser and not the smartphone. Back to the episode. It's so refreshing, Miguel, to hear a, a neuroscientist come on and say how... Talk about the shame that is surrounding this conversation. Um, I think what you're saying is so interesting and talking about specific foods that are potentially good for focus and, and productivity and all of that kind of stuff. But to shine a light on, I think, the bigger picture, which is the shame around certain eating habits that many people with ADHD or neurodivergent conditions experience. And one of the stories that I hear time and time again is that people understand what food is good, they understand what food is bad, and sometimes they stick to that, that structure and that discipline or f- or diet, and then in the evening they can binge, uh, particularly at nighttime when they're very lonely or the world's gone to sleep but they're wide awake and they have nothing else to do. Like, where does your empathy and understanding for that side of it come from? Because to hear, uh, someone like yourself open up and to share that, does that come from a personal experience?

   2. SPSpeaker29:24

      It does,

9. 29:25 – 46:34

   Dr Miguels personal story

   1. SPSpeaker29:25

      yeah. So I, uh, started behaving funny around food, uh, probably in my teens, like early teens. And, uh, so I'm a '70s baby. I know I look fabulous-

   2. APAlex Partridge29:41

      [laughs]

   3. SPSpeaker29:41

      ... but I'm 53. Uh, and there was a lot of talk about, you know, cutting down fats and, you know, what was good at the time and all this kind of stuff. You know, like now carbs are the, the evil and sugar, you know, and ultra-processed foods. There was a lot of this kind of like restrictive, uh, chat about certain foods and, uh, that was all pervasive. It's on TV, you know, people chat about it. And, and we know from, uh, really good quality research that has been published, you know, for a while now, but like recently as well, how in families where there is a, a kind of a obsession around what is healthy and what is not, and you talk about that more readily than maybe in other families, children then grow up to be quite regimented about foods and to be...quite, uh, rigid in their own thinking about food, so they can actually demonize certain foods. They can make them-- They can identify them with guilt. They can identify them with danger as opposed to identify them as something nourishing and safe. So I was in an extreme situation, uh, an e- an extreme example of that in my, in my family, but there was a little-- a bit of conversation around that because I think there was a, a, a general conversation around diet at that particular time. Uh, but then I started using laxatives in my teens, uh, on the basis that I thought, "Okay, well, my grandma used them," and I just-- basically I nicked some of them, and I, you know, started using them. And I thought, "Okay, well, I can afford to eat more and then go to the toilet more." And that became a way of purging, and it developed into other ways of purging through my teens, late teens, twenties, thirties. And, uh, and I've only really come to realize in my, you know, probably as I came to fifty why I was doing all of that kind of stuff, which was partly because of, uh, early life trauma that I experienced. Uh, you know, there was a complex situation with... I had a, a, a, a brother who was dying of cancer, uh, while I was growing up. Uh, he was, uh, in, in and out of hospital for about four years, so my mom and dad were not around a lot of the time. And food became a bit of a crutch because I needed that kind of a safe space, and I needed the embrace of a parent that maybe wasn't there. And, uh, you know, it took like, you know, a good forty years for me to understand that maybe that is why I was always going back for seconds and then kind of like feeling guilty because of that and restricting for weeks at a time or cutting out complete food groups. There was sexual abuse as well that I, I endured when-- during that time as well, and there's a lot of signs as well on the vulnerability of, uh, young neurodivergent people who experience more situations like that because we might actually come into a situation with, uh, curiosity and looking for a bit of dopamine without knowing what we are doing and then finding ourselves in a, in a tricky situation, you know, where somebody takes advantage of you. So there's a combination of things that when we think about food, we think about what food is good for you, what food is bad for you, and you lose the whole context that food is very emotional, is very messy, and we are messy individuals living in a messy world. So just to try and make it all super clean and tidy, it doesn't quite work, um, particularly when you have a, a brain with quirks itself and a nervous system with quirks that is-- has got extra need for safety that perhaps maybe a neurotypical brain is not so demanding in that, in that respect. So I lived with a disordered way of eating for a long, long time. And, uh, but at the same time, I was dishing out advice based on neurotypical norms for a long time during the height of my career in nutrition when I was doing a lot of clinical work one-to-one and in teams. Um, I was even doing that when I was working as part of a psychiatry team dealing with, uh, um, addiction situations. That was very specific. But we were very s- very neurotypical in that respect as well because it was before my diagnosis, and I didn't have the awareness. And something was kind of like resonating with me thinking, "Shouldn't we be treating these people who are very, very vulnerable in a particular way that is more comforting as opposed to, okay, because they had money, try and give them the ideal diet because they had a chef or something?" Because we-- I was working with people who could afford that kind of lifestyle. And, uh, and, and then the penny dropped when I got my diagnosis. You know, like you wrote in your first book, you know, like, now I understand. Well, for me, I understood so many things. I understood so many things that were complicated and that they took time to unravel because the diagnosis was like the gateway for me to start thinking, "Maybe I've been doing this. Maybe I'm b- I've been going back for seconds so many times because of this." And it wasn't because I was morally faulty. It wasn't because I was, um, broken. It wasn't because I was, uh, um... yeah, there was something wrong with me. It was because I was looking for the safety and the comfort that food was giving me. And if we don't understand that food is used as a safety blanket by neurodivergent people a lot of the time, then I think we're missing out a lot of the picture. So that's where my empathy comes from. It comes from me. But then I don't want to be s- completely anecdotal and say, "Because it's happened to me, it's gonna happen to lots of people." What I'm doing at the moment is developing this range of tools to understand why is this happening to more neurodivergent people. Because the more I share my story with other people who are neurodivergent, the more I'm hearing the same stories. Different flavors. It's not all about, you know, I was also abused or whatever. There's a lot of that but, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean that everybody's had like trauma with like a capital T. It may be like microtraumas. It might be that you've grown queer, and you couldn't accept yourself until later in life. It may be that you're trans. It may be that you grew up in a place where people didn't understand you, even if you were like completely, you know, like heterosexual, and there was kind of like you were white and kind of like normal by neuronormative standards, and people looked at you, and they didn't see any different. But it could also be that you grew up in a society that was racist and, you know, and, and you were the only Black chi-child in school or the only Indian child in school or whatever. You know? All of those things are going to play a role. All of that conglomerate of things that you've experienced in your life are going to play a role. Your relationships with yourself, with others, with your parents, with your family, romantic relationships, all of those thingsWhen you stop at the supermarket to decide what you're going to buy, your brain doesn't just think, "This is good for me. This has got 20 grams of protein." It's also taking into account all of those things as well, because you're looking for that safety that that food is going to give you. And I think we need to take all of those things into account when we put together plans, the ideal meal plan for the ADHD brain, because it's going to be slightly different for everybody.

   4. APAlex Partridge37:05

      Firstly, thank you for, for sharing that story, Miguel. I'm, I'm hesitant to ask you about particular foods that might help with focus, and maybe you'll say blueberries or eggs 'cause they contain particular chemicals that help with dopamine regulation and all of that. But i- is there a wider question here of, of in order to repair or make a start at stitching together your relationship with food, do you first need to address the, the, the trauma that you experienced when you were younger?

   5. SPSpeaker37:34

      I think it's not mutually exclusive, so I don't want to just be all about the trauma, and I don't want to be all about the polyphenols. I think the polyphenols are brilliant, and when we look at science that doesn't actually look at trauma in particularly, uh, there's been a few, um, articles published in the last couple of years that have been very interesting, talking about something that people are sharing on social media as well, how we tend to have more incidents of things like hypermobility, for example. I know you've talked about this with other guests. Um, incidences of, uh, inflammation, uh, maybe immunity issues and so on. So, um, there is an element of perhaps your body being so sensitive, your nervous system being so sensitive that, uh, there may be higher, um, neuroinflammation, so a little bit of, uh, um, uh, inflammation in the nervous system, in the brain, that if you went to your GP and say, "Can you give me a result that is-- I can look at and is, um, relevant?" It doesn't exist. But when we look in, in a lab, in, in a more precise kind of way, we know that that subclinically, if you need to be at this kind of level, you're just a tiny little bit above that. And it's to do with your body being in a situation of perceived threat throughout life, which can be because of these kind of early life experiences. It could be because of later life experiences as well, because the, the stress, uh, this, the mechanism that deals with stress is not just, um, shaped by your childhood, although childhood is, is very important. It could be, uh, in adult life as well. But if your body feels a little bit under threat, and it could just be because you're in an office where you are the only neurodivergent person that you know of, there may be others, and that makes you feel under pressure to perform in a particular way, and that is conditioning your brain and your nervous system to function in a way that makes it feel like you need to be prepared for danger, so you're in a fight or flight situation. And when that happens, you are going to release a number of different molecules in your bloodstream to prepare you for being traumatized physically, to have a cut or a break or something. So if you have a cut, you need to heal that wound very, very quickly so you don't bleed out. So all of these molecules serve a purpose, like cortisol with stress and so on. But you couldn't just live high on cortisol all the time. It's going to drain you. You couldn't just live high on these molecules that are going to heal you all the time because they will drain you as well. And, uh, uh, and, and so we do know that certain foods like blueberries or cocoa or, uh, pomegranate or cruciferous vegetables like broccoli or whatever, you know, have some ingredients in there, some, um, some, uh, active components that are going to make the brain and the nervous system work in a, in a more regulated way. Is that incompatible with the trauma thing? No. I think what I'm trying to say is that you need to look at both. You need to look at the person's story, and then you need to look at the, the benefits of these foods that are undeniable. But if you just focus on that only and say, "Right, I'm just going to sort out my trauma so I can eat what I want," that's kind of, like, a little bit dodgy.

   6. APAlex Partridge41:05

      Mm.

   7. SPSpeaker41:06

      And if you just say, "I'm just going to eat all these wonderful super foods that are going to sort me out, and I know I've got some stuff to sort out. Uh, that doesn't matter. I'm just like, you know, I'll leave that for later. I'm just going to focus on all this wonderful stuff that, you know, people are talking about, and they're gonna give me polyphenols and fiber. I'm going to hack my microbiome and all of that." Sorry, but you're going to be disappointed. I see this, like, you know, day after day, people coming back saying, "Oh, maybe need to look a little bit more into the dark side." And those who've been in the dark side exploring that need, uh, "I'm just over my trauma now. I need to focus on my food."

   8. APAlex Partridge41:44

      [laughs]

   9. SPSpeaker41:44

      So it's kind of like a little bit of both.

   10. APAlex Partridge41:46

       Mm.

   11. SPSpeaker41:46

       And not everybody's ready to go deep into the trauma, you know, or deep into the super foods. Everybody's going to be at different stages in their journey, and it's gonna be a mix of where am I in that journey and where do I take it.

   12. APAlex Partridge41:59

       So interesting. I remember last time you, you mentioned about kefir-

   13. SPSpeaker42:03

       Yeah

   14. APAlex Partridge42:03

       ... uh, and blueberries and, uh, uh, it's always funny to think that, y- to-- how bad of an idea it would be to assume that if you just had kefir or just had loads of eggs or blueberries, that would cure RSD and the horrible 20,000 comments-

   15. SPSpeaker42:16

       Yeah

   16. APAlex Partridge42:16

       ... you received would, would be evaporated and finished with.

   17. SPSpeaker42:20

       I know. Exactly.

   18. APAlex Partridge42:21

       Is it, is it a risk that you could potentially have a, a diet that isn't optimal for your brain and therefore potentially emotional dysregulation and RSD could get worse, and then as a consequence of RSD, you then go into this cycle of eating comfort foods-

   19. SPSpeaker42:42

       Yeah

   20. APAlex Partridge42:42

       ... to deal with the RSD, and therefore the emotional dysregulation gets worse and so on, and the cycle could be quite risky. Is there a risk there?

   21. SPSpeaker42:49

       Yeah, of course. Of course. Uh, uh, and this resonates completely with what I was trying to say, that I'll give you, like, kind of like the, the, you know, uh, um, um, too long, didn't read answer-

   22. APAlex Partridge42:59

       [laughs]

   23. SPSpeaker42:59

       ... which is basically, it's not incompatible. You know, we do have really good science on fermented foods, on, you know, the broccoli family of vegetables, on polyphenols from, um, berries, on-The science is, is, is undeniable. The, the research is very robust. This is strong. But there's only one side of the story. So, you know, you can be in a point in your li- at a point in your life where you find you struggle with something. And if you get stuck in mostly beige foods, mostly foods that are going to, okay, they're going to anchor you, they're going to give you safety, but they might also not give you the nutrients that your brain needs and that your nervous system needs. And other parts of your body, like your muscle, is a host to the most substantial colony of mitochondria. So mitochondria are the power plants in cells, and they are very important for mental health. Now, you have mitochondria in every cell in the body, but muscle actually has the most number of mitochondria of all tissues in the body. So if you have a diet that is quite depleted in protein, your muscle is not going to get the protein that it needs to keep itself at the levels that it needs to be at. So, you know, you, you, you're strong, and your m- your... It carries your mus- your, your, your bones and so on. It allows you to move freely. So you're going to lose muscle, you're going to lose mitochondria, w- And we know from research that when you lose mitochondria, your mental health is going to be affected. So you could be in a completely... You, you, you could enter that cycle that you were mentioning where you basically get stuck in foods that are not nourishing you enough. And then because you might have a glance at any particular time, you have a glimpse of clarity and you think, "What am I doing? I'm eating all these foods that are kind of like not sustaining me just because they're easy, and I don't feel good, but I'm going to keep eating them because they are comforting." And then you get into that kind of like rut. So I think, as I was saying before, rather than actually trying to overhaul your diet and say, "I can see myself being in that rut. How do I come out?" Try to do it little by little. So a few blueberries, uh, you know. Do I need to drink kefir every day, but I don't like it? Well, what about if you just mix a couple of teaspoons of it in a smoothie with the blueberries that you have just bought? You know, so it doesn't need to be like a massive change. It could be... The body and nutrition is more about consistency than massive changes. So if you do something more regularly, your gut microbes are going to like it better than if you completely change it from one day to the next, and then you think, "Okay, that was nice. Now I'm going to go back to my old tricks." It's about how do you keep it in place, and how do you make it sustainable so it's not a chore every time you need to think about a meal that you think, "Ooh, have I got the cognitive capacity to think about this meal now?" So think about that. How can you make your nutrition easy enough, so when you open the fridge, it's not a whole battleground as to what you choose to eat? And that would be the, that would be the trick.

   24. APAlex Partridge46:20

       Mm. Yes. Cutting down, like getting rid of the re- resistance-

   25. SPSpeaker46:24

       Yeah

   26. APAlex Partridge46:24

       ... to make it as easy as possible.

   27. SPSpeaker46:26

       Yeah.

   28. APAlex Partridge46:26

       Miguel, we've spoken a lot about the emotional side of, of, of eating and nutrition and, and the shame that can come with, with that conversation. But just before

10. 46:34 – 51:20

    New ADHD nutritional research

    1. APAlex Partridge46:34

       we go, is there any groundbreaking new research that you think will blow the mind of the ADHD Chatter audience in regards to diet and nutrition?

    2. SPSpeaker46:44

       Uh, I'm, I'm not sure it's, it's completely mind-blowing.

    3. APAlex Partridge46:47

       [laughs]

    4. SPSpeaker46:48

       But it's, uh... W- w- what we keep hearing in, uh, really robust research that's coming out about ADHD is the importance of diversity in foods, which is tricky because we've talked about that sometimes you don't feel like diversity, you feel like safety. But, uh, if, uh, particularly if you take the, the gut into account and you move away from the, the whole conversation of ADHD just being about attention and hyperactivity and the brain only, and, you know, and, and you include the nervous system, hormones, the gut sensitivities and so on, um, if you nourish your body, the whole of the body, with the nutrients that come from foods that are colorful, that's always going to be a plus, just because of what I mentioned before. Colors typically tell you that there is a, a substance in there that is going to be anti-inflammatory, that's going to be nourishing for your gut microbes. When it's nourishing for your mi- gut microbes, that tends to be anti-inflammatory as well because they will produce some, some, some substances like butyrate that is n- anti-inflammatory. So it's like a double whammy when you have colorful food. So not completely mind-blowing, nobody's heard about this before, but more of a situation that because it keeps repeating itself in good quality research that is being churned out by people that I respect in the, in the field to pay special attention to make sure that you have a bit of a rainbow going on in your week. So if it happens to be a bit of a beige day, fine, but if you can make a bit of a space for more colors throughout the week, that's probably something that your body, your whole body is going to, uh, to thank you for.

    5. APAlex Partridge48:36

       I was smiling, Miguel, as you said that, 'cause I, I imagined myself going to the supermarket after this conversation and going, "I'm gonna do this health kick," and buying all the beetroot and the carrots and the broccoli, and maybe doing it for two days, and then they all go moldy in the fridge and it's, it's another disaster.

    6. SPSpeaker48:50

       It happens.

    7. APAlex Partridge48:52

       Consistency and... Is that a little side tip? Like, have you got any tips to, to sort of stay consistent? And I know you should, don't beat yourself up if you're not consistent all the time, but is there any tips there to try and stay consistent?

    8. SPSpeaker49:04

       Uh, well, well, I've written a book that's called ADHD Body and Mind, and, uh, uh, probably the biggest chapter is on nutrition, uh, and it's got hundreds of tips in there. So not just one tip, because we like novelty. So-Obviously something novel is always going to be in there, but it, we like variety as well, so you're going to find loads of different ideas in there. Um, the concept is to be, um, compassionate with yourself when you find yourself in that situation. You're in the supermarket, you might have all the cognitive power in the world one day, but you might struggle and you might be hungry as well when you're shopping, which tends to be the case, and then you end up buying foods that you might regret having bought. You know, the idea that, uh, that is going to be shameful and that's going to make you, it's going to make your, your worth less as a human being because you've made that decision, to me is flawed. Um, so are you going to find loads of examples of foods in the, um, in the chapter where I talk about all of these, which are going to be colorful and are going to give you the nutrients that your body and your, your nervous system needs to, to thrive? Yes. Are you going to feel, are you going to be less worthy as a person if you are having a bit of a beige day or a beige week? No. So I think I'd probably like to leave it as that.

    9. APAlex Partridge50:32

       Yeah, no, as closing advice, a brilliant closing advice. I wanna move on, Miguel, to often the most unpredictable part of the show.

    10. SPSpeaker50:40

        Lovely.

    11. APAlex Partridge50:40

        And that's the-

    12. SPSpeaker50:40

        I love unpredictability

    13. APAlex Partridge50:41

        ... I never know what the, what's gonna be in the washing machine of woes-

    14. SPSpeaker50:44

        [laughs]

    15. APAlex Partridge50:44

        ... which is behind me, and that's where the audience questions come out of.

    16. SPSpeaker50:48

        Yeah.

    17. APAlex Partridge50:49

        And it's called a washing machine because my ADHD item is the washing machine, 'cause I always forget my clothes in the machine after the cycle is finished. So this is also a bit of a, a public service announcement to remember to empty your machine if it's, uh-

    18. SPSpeaker51:01

        [laughs]

    19. APAlex Partridge51:02

        ... full still. Although I have been using the Tiimo app, uh, which has helped me remember, but I'm still a work in progress. Right. This week, Dr. Miguel, the audience, on the topic of ADHD and autism and AuDHD and nutrition specifically, the three most up-voted questions are, the first

11. 51:20 – 58:50

    Audience questions

    1. APAlex Partridge51:20

       one, "As someone with AuDHD, I know there are certain foods I should keep away from, but my autism makes me just want to eat the same thing again and again. How can I manage this conflict and get a healthier diet?"

    2. SPSpeaker51:34

       I think, uh, I answered this, uh, early, earlier on, uh, so maybe rewind and get-

    3. APAlex Partridge51:41

       Yeah. [laughs]

    4. SPSpeaker51:41

       ... the full answer there, but I'll just tell you a different version of the answer.

    5. APAlex Partridge51:44

       [laughs]

    6. SPSpeaker51:44

       Which is keep those foods as your anchors because safety is very important, and for you to feel safe is going to be paramount as a, as an AuDHDer. Safety is really, really important. We want to feel safe and grounded. So if those foods that you keep repeating are your safe foods, I wouldn't take them off your, out of your pantry. I would keep them. But then think about sprinkling something. So if you, if your safe food is bread and you feel shameful because it's just bread, well, think about a swap maybe. Um, are you having just white bread? If th- if it is just the white bread that makes you safe and you don't want to swap it, fine, keep the white bread. But what can you put on top of the white bread that is going to give you maybe some protein early in the day? Do you eat fish? Maybe can you have some sardines to give you some protein in there? If you're plant-based, can you make like a tofu paste maybe with like your favorite spice and a bit of olive oil? You have the polyphenols in the olive oil, the protein in the tofu. I like smoked tofu. I find it quite sensorially rewarding. Um, I love smoked stuff. And maybe with a smoke, bit of smoked paprika as well. Um, so it's like a nice kind of, uh, you know, pate, um, replacement. So you've got the protein, you've got some polyphenols in there. You've got some spices as well that are really nice source of polyphenols. Um, if your safe food is yogurt and you're obsessed with yogurt, what about putting some sprinkle that has got some... You know, you can buy them in the supermarket ready-made, uh, with flax seed, um, dried fruit. They do different flavors with like, you know, um, raspberries, strawberries, whatever, coconut. Coconut chips maybe for a bit of crunch.

    7. APAlex Partridge53:35

       Mm.

    8. SPSpeaker53:36

       But, and, and the, the, the smell of the coconut. Um, dried coconut, you know, like the desiccated coconut. It's got a bit of like, you know, crunchy kind of like smell thing. Maybe a bit of cinnamon on top of the yogurt because the smell and the flavor. Maybe some mixed seeds, uh, like, you know, sunflower, pumpkin seeds. Maybe some mixed nuts, you know, for the crunch, the protein, the omegas. So think about sprinkles as opposed to like, oh, I need to like re- overhaul my, overhaul my whole diet. Keep the basics like the wardrobe basics and then add, you know, like you would have the same outfit with a different belt, the same outfit with a different scarf or, you know, whatever. Think about that same structure as you keep the basics of your wa- of your wardrobe and, and juce up the, um, the accessories.

    9. APAlex Partridge54:28

       [laughs] Such a brilliant way to think about it, and fantastic advice. Thank you, Miguel.

    10. SPSpeaker54:32

        Thank you.

    11. APAlex Partridge54:32

        And the second most up-voted question from the washing machine of woes is, "Can food really help so much with someone's brain function? I don't believe it." A skeptic.

    12. SPSpeaker54:44

        Um, okay. And, and I, uh, I, I, I respect the, uh, skepticism because as we've discussed plenty throughout the episode, nutrition is very nuanced, and I know that people like clean answers. Uh, so, you know, just knowing that eating a particular food is going to change your brain function sounds like amazing, and maybe in a, in a tightly controlled experiment it does something. Is it going to completely make you a better person, or it's going to improve your brain so much that you've hacked it? Is it going to remove or vanish your ADHD or your autistic symptoms or, you know, what are you trying to achieve with that? Um-Is it going to do something to your biology? Absolutely, yes. Uh, but the sym- the, the, the, the, the, the way that it's going to do that might be so subtle and in combination with other ingredients that you're putting as part of your diet, you know? They, we know, for example, that something as, um, uh, rich in antioxidants like a tomato has got lycopene, a polyphenol that is good for your gut, and your brain, and your skin, and, you know, for the whole of the body, your eyes. But if you mix it with olive oil, and you heat up the olive oil as well, because someti- sometimes people think, "Oh, if you fry something or if you heat it up, you lose." When in fact, the studies actually say that when you heat up the olive oil and you put the tomato in there, like we do around the Mediterranean, in Spain and Italy we have this thing called soffritto, and the soffritto is tomato, or tomato paste, or fresh tomato with olive oil and maybe some parsley or some other herbs. And the polyphenol content in that particular meal, that is the start of a meal, then you use that to make something else, increases dramatically because of the combination of the different polyphenols in the different foods. So this is an example of less... If you isolate your thinking to one particular food and think, "This food, I've seen a study." The study's a very controlled thing. It's just testing a hypothesis. Is this going to remove all your symptoms? Maybe not, but if you constantly apply that same process every day in how you combine foods and make things interesting by sprinkling something on your basic foods that feel safe to you, that, over time, that's very likely to support your brain in a, in a much healthier way. Is it going to change it completely? No. Is it going to do something positive? Yes. It's not mutually exclusive.

    13. APAlex Partridge57:17

        Super interesting, Miguel. Thank you very much. And just finally, we probably covered this quite in depth already, but the final question is, why is diet so hard to get right, especially for someone with ADHD?

    14. SPSpeaker57:29

        I think because it's, a- as I mentioned before, uh, um, diet, uh, the concept of diet is very, um... We try to m- fit it into a clean, um, structure and, uh, and we don't take into account that humans are messy and, uh, and we can be particularly messy in our neurodivergence because our rhythms are a little bit different to neurotypical rhythms. So we try to follow advice that is set for neurotypical people without thinking that perhaps we are not hungry at 1:00. Why do we have lunch at 1:00? I'm only hungry at 3:00. So then you start thinking, "Oh, I've missed out a meal," and, you know, and then you feel shame because of that. Why don't you just eat at 3:00 when you're hungry and have a bigger meal at 3:00? Oh, I'm not hungry at night. Well, don't have a big meal. Have a smaller meal. Just make your own rules and make sure that you have a little bit of all of the things that you know are good for you, in inverted commas, and the consistency of that is going to be better than trying to fight against the, you know, against the, the shame-

    15. APAlex Partridge58:42

        Mm

    16. SPSpeaker58:42

        ... of not doing things the right way. So it's about finding your rhythm really.

    17. APAlex Partridge58:46

        Powerful closing advice, Dr. Miguel.

    18. SPSpeaker58:48

        Thank you.

    19. APAlex Partridge58:48

        Thank you so much. Just-

    20. SPSpeaker58:49

        Thank you so much

12. 58:50 – 59:34

    A letter to my younger self

    1. SPSpeaker58:50

       for having me again.

    2. APAlex Partridge58:51

       Just finally, I wanna deliver to you a letter that was written by the previous guest, where they wrote a letter to their younger self.

    3. SPSpeaker58:58

       Oh, wow.

    4. APAlex Partridge58:59

       There we go, Dr. Miguel, if you could kindly read that letter.

    5. SPSpeaker59:02

       Beautiful. "It wasn't your fault. It was never your fault. Never stop being who you are and sharing it with the world. Some people love you, and that's what matters." That's beautiful.

    6. APAlex Partridge59:15

       That's really amazing. Thank you so much.

    7. SPSpeaker59:16

       And it's really powerful as well.

    8. APAlex Partridge59:18

       Dr. Miguel, o- on behalf of everyone grappling to understand their brains and to trying to, to reduce the shame and understand the link between neurodiversity and nutrition, thank you so much.

    9. SPSpeaker59:30

       Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure. [outro music]

Episode duration: 59:35