E27: The Great Inflation Debate, Amazon gets spicy on Twitter, rethinking supply chains & more

1. 0:00 – 7:25

   Besties get ready to rumble & discuss recent Twitter polls

   1. JCJason Calacanis0:00

      Hey, everybody. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the All-In Podcast. With us today, again, the Queen of Quinoa, David Friedberg, David Sacks, the Rain Man himself, and of course, the Dictator here, Chamath. And let's get ready. It's- it's time.

   2. DSDavid Sacks0:16

      (laughs)

   3. NANarrator0:16

      (instrumental music plays) ****** He's known as the Globetrotter ******

   4. JCJason Calacanis0:19

      Chamath-

   5. NANarrator0:20

      ****/ He broke out ****/ But he known as the Cold Choler ***

   6. JCJason Calacanis0:20

      ... and Sacks.

   7. NANarrator0:21

      ****/ From home he froze ****/ He sold his home ****/ And closed his own door ***

   8. JCJason Calacanis0:22

      Here it comes, everybody.

   9. NANarrator0:24

      ****/ He closed his own door ***/ ******/ He chose his own disorder ***

   10. JCJason Calacanis0:26

       Sacks is ready.

   11. NANarrator0:27

       ***/ He chose his own disorder ***/ ******/ He goes no further ***

   12. JCJason Calacanis0:27

       In the red corner-

   13. NANarrator0:28

       ***/ He goes no further ***/ (laughs)

   14. JCJason Calacanis0:29

       ... representing Richard Nixon-

   15. DSDavid Sacks0:31

       (laughs)

   16. JCJason Calacanis0:32

       ... Ronald Reagan-

   17. DSDavid Sacks0:33

       (laughs)

   18. JCJason Calacanis0:34

       ... Nixon, and rich people everywhere-

   19. DSDavid Sacks0:36

       (laughs)

   20. JCJason Calacanis0:37

       ... David "The Rain Man" Sacks.

   21. DSDavid Sacks0:40

       Somebody's gotta do it.

   22. JCJason Calacanis0:41

       And in the blue corner, representing- (laughs)

   23. CPChamath Palihapitiya0:45

       LBJ.

   24. JCJason Calacanis0:46

       ... the underserved-

   25. DSDavid Sacks0:48

       (laughs)

   26. CPChamath Palihapitiya0:48

       (laughs)

   27. JCJason Calacanis0:48

       ... the forgotten, the underdogs-

   28. NANarrator0:50

       (instrumental music plays) ******/ So he don't have to tell you ***/ ******/ He goes all in w***/ ******/ So he don't have to tell you ***/ ******/ He goes all in w***/

   29. JCJason Calacanis0:50

       ... the woke left, Chamath Palihapitiya.

   30. NANarrator0:55

       (instrumental music plays) ******/ So he don't have to tell you ***/ ******/ He goes all in w***/ ******/ To let your winner slide ***/ ******/ Rain Man, David Sacks ***/ ******/ I'm goin' all in w***/
2. 7:25 – 37:20

   Debating inflation, Sacks presents his deck

   1. CPChamath Palihapitiya7:25

      this week?

   2. JCJason Calacanis7:25

      I guess the- the topic we should get right to is inflation. Um, this is a topic we've been talking about a whole bunch, uh, because we're printing a ton of money. Everybody seems to think the hedge against inflation is to buy Bitcoin or do you put your money into equities? And are we actually gonna see things other than homes and education massively inflate? We've seen some anecdotal evidence of this. Tesla increased the price of their cars. Used cars have gone up in price, which is a function of the lack of production of some cars during the pandemic, so there- there might be a multitude of factors there. But just putting it out there, are we gonna go- are we gonna face inflation that, you know, goods and services are gonna just go through the roof in cost? Or do we have enough efficiency, uh, in the system that the average consumer is not gonna see massive inflation in the products and services they buy coming out of the pandemic?

   3. DSDavid Sacks8:16

      Well, isn't- isn't the- isn't the real issue that Chamath says inflation is good and he... Because it creates equality and he thinks 1979 was a great year?

   4. JCJason Calacanis8:24

      Yeah. (laughs)

   5. DSDavid Sacks8:24

      I think you should go straight to that.

   6. JCJason Calacanis8:26

      All right, I was gonna-

   7. DSDavid Sacks8:27

      No, no, no, no, let's- let's go-

   8. JCJason Calacanis8:30

      I was gonna tee it up first to explain his tweet storm.

   9. DSDavid Sacks8:33

      No, no, no, let's go...

   10. JCJason Calacanis8:33

       Okay.

   11. DSDavid Sacks8:33

       And then I'll respond.

   12. JCJason Calacanis8:34

       Okay, there we go.

   13. CPChamath Palihapitiya8:35

       So I think, David, you got unnecessarily emotional and personal. That was not... Again, these- these were things that I've learned from someone who I will say without betraying him, um, is an extremely well-respected person at an extremely well-known institution that basically has helped make a lot of, sort of, you know, capital allocators very smart about things and has made people a lot of money. So, uh, I was relaying what I learned through him. So let me just relay that again, and I'll just start with this. Whenever you have a dollar of income, you can do one of two things with that income. You either consume things, right? So you buy. Or you can save and you can put it into investments for the future, right? So consumption and investment. The reality is that most people, so the lower 60% of the income distribution, essentially spends above their income, right? The lowest actually spends at, so a dollar earned is a dollar spent. And then the middle two, because they have access to credit, a dollar earned, they spend about, you know, uh, percentage points more than that. When you get to the richest, uh, 20% of the population, they're actually able to save and they save about 13 cents of every dollar and they're able to invest in the future. So, consumption and investment. The reality is inflation comes through a volume of activity, right? So you, as a rich person, can go and buy one $100,000 necklace at Tiffany's. It doesn't move the needle for inflation. But when, you know, 200,000 people buy a $1,000 television, that's felt in the economy. It moves. So inflation comes because of gross tonnage of volume so you need consumption. And by definition, what that does is it pushes consumption into those, you know, that 60 to 80% of people that are not the top 20%. So what it means is that, you know, you have a volume game of people buying things, and when they buy more of those things, inflation goes up. How do they buy more things? They have more income because their propensity is to consume. So then you have to ask yourself, "Well, where is this incremental, uh, income coming from?" And all he has observed, which I think is very credible, is we had the supernatural event in the pandemic. We've now started to print trillions of dollars of incremental consumption. And that's going to start to lead to the most simple ways in which consumption manifests in inflation, which is via commodity prices. What does that mean? Let me state simply. A rich person lives in a well-insulated house, drives an electric car, and eats fish. A less rich person lives in a poorly insulated house, lives- you know, drives a, um, an SUV and eats beef. Beef versus fish as a simple example, it consumes 20, 30, 50, 100 times more input costs to generate that same pound of protein than a fish does. It's just an example of showing how income distributions and the effects and the consumption patterns of large swaths of people drive different consumption behaviors which drive inflation. So all he was trying to represent to me was that idea, which is that we have printed trillions of dollars. We are creating artificial levels of consumption. That consumption will actually drive up commodity prices. Commodity prices will actually drive up inflation. Then what he sh- told me was the best analogy, again, it's not perfect but it rhymes to the history, is what actually happened in the 1970s.... which is that by having this sort of, um, boundary condition, you have to ask yourself, what will happen if inflation rips higher? And, you know, starting in the late '60s through s- the '70s, that's kind of what you had, a same kind of boundary con- Forget the way in which the money got to people. You know, in this case, it was a government check. But in the late '60s and early '70s, we had similar kinds of programs. We had Head Start, we have, uh, you know, AmeriCorps, we had Food Stamps Act, we had the Social Security Act. All of these things were transfer payments. And when you put h- that much money into the hands of a large swath of people, consumption went up, commodity prices went up, inflation went up. It peaked in 1979, but it also happened that when that happened, the gap between the rich and the poor was the lowest it had ever been. And so I thought that that was a really interesting thing to observe.

   14. JCJason Calacanis13:12

       Okay. Sachs, you, uh, were triggered, you were triggered by this.

   15. DSDavid Sacks13:17

       Well, I wasn't triggered, I just said it was Chamath's worst take ever.

   16. JCJason Calacanis13:20

       (laughs)

   17. DSDavid Sacks13:20

       And then, uh, and then-

   18. CPChamath Palihapitiya13:22

       But, but David-

   19. JCJason Calacanis13:23

       (laughs)

   20. CPChamath Palihapitiya13:23

       But David, it wasn't my-

   21. DSDavid Sacks13:24

       I don't remember what point you were triggered.

   22. CPChamath Palihapitiya13:25

       It wasn't my take, David.

   23. JCJason Calacanis13:26

       What's wrong with the take? Let's, let's

   24. No, no. Okay. Well, let me, let me explain what... Let me explain what's wrong with the take. I created a PowerPoint. So-

   25. Oh, boy.

   26. (laughs)

   27. DSDavid Sacks13:35

       I pulled a Chamath.

   28. CPChamath Palihapitiya13:36

       Woo.

   29. DSDavid Sacks13:36

       No, it's not boring. And, and Chamath has done it too, so don't-

   30. JCJason Calacanis13:39

       (laughs)
3. 37:20 – 48:42

   Amazon social team goes on the offensive, Facebook's regulatory capture play around content moderation

   1. DSDavid Sacks37:20

      might get richer. Um, that's the problem.

   2. JCJason Calacanis37:22

      All right. Well, let's pivot to that, then.

   3. DSDavid Sacks37:23

      Yeah.

   4. JCJason Calacanis37:23

      I don't know if you guys have been following, um, what's happening with, uh, the head of operations at, or cons- I guess he's the head of warehouses at Amazon. Amazon is standing up to Elizabeth Warren on Twitter. They're mixing it up. Did you guys see these tweets? Let's pull 'em, pull them up.

   5. CPChamath Palihapitiya37:39

      No. What? It's going what?

   6. JCJason Calacanis37:40

      You haven't seen these? (laughs)

   7. CPChamath Palihapitiya37:41

      No.

   8. JCJason Calacanis37:42

      Jamal, didn't you donate, like, some ridiculous amount of money to Elizabeth Warren's campaign?

   9. CPChamath Palihapitiya37:46

      No, 25K, just a little-

   10. JCJason Calacanis37:48

       Oh.

   11. CPChamath Palihapitiya37:48

       ... tasty poo. It was a little teaser bet, and I, and I didn't like what I saw, so I had to shut it down. I shut it down on the turn. The flop was not-

   12. JCJason Calacanis37:55

       Oh, was the deal- deal or bet, was it deal or bet?

   13. CPChamath Palihapitiya37:56

       Deal or bet. The flop, flop bet, I c- I-

   14. JCJason Calacanis37:58

       Just want to get information.

   15. You, you, you limped in? You limped in with seven-four?

   16. CPChamath Palihapitiya38:01

       I limped in with seven-four offsuit. I put a little teaser bet out there. I didn't like what I saw-

   17. JCJason Calacanis38:05

       Yeah.

   18. CPChamath Palihapitiya38:05

       ... and so I f- I folded.

   19. JCJason Calacanis38:06

       Basically, Amazon is finally saying, "Hey, we're just gonna st- we're gonna stand up when Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders kinda attack us and attack Bezos." Uh, and they just said, "Listen, you guys set the minimum wage. Do your job. We moved the minimum wage at Amazon to $15 an hour. We made our decision. Get back to work and set the federal minimum wage at $15 an hour, and stop telling us we don't pay our taxes, 'cause you make the tax law." So essentially, this dovetails with the hearing. I don't know if you guys watched any of the hearing with Zuckerberg and everybody, but basically, they were all... O- o- it seems like big tech is just putting their foot down and saying, "Just tell us what you want us to do, because we're doing it. We're giving people $15 an hour now."

   20. DSDavid Sacks38:49

       Yeah, but you know what Zuckerberg, what, what Zuckerberg and Dorsey basically said is that, "If you don't like that kind of speech, then why don't you prohibit it? Instead of telling us to do it, you can't and you won't, because y- you know, it's, it's, it's a violation of the First Amendment." So that, yeah, they were kinda pushing back on them, saying, "Listen, if, if you have such a problem with it, pass a law."

   21. JCJason Calacanis39:10

       Yeah. And this guy, Dave Clark, do you guys know Dave Clark at Amazon?

   22. CPChamath Palihapitiya39:13

       Nope.

   23. JCJason Calacanis39:14

       So this is the guy who's been mixing it up. And if the audience is listening, you can see a bunch of this, uh, on the YouTube channel because we, we'll put in the graphics.

   24. CPChamath Palihapitiya39:22

       Oh, wow. He's the, he's like the number two guy there. He, he runs all-

   25. JCJason Calacanis39:26

       Yeah.

   26. CPChamath Palihapitiya39:26

       ... he runs the entire retail business, I guess?

   27. JCJason Calacanis39:28

       Yeah. So now, Amazon is on a full-court press to engage with, let's call it the socialist left. Um, I guess they call themselves Democratic Socialists 'cause they don't wanna be called Socialists. (laughs) Uh, and they're saying like, "Listen, we give people healthcare. We give them 15 bucks an hour. And if you want to tour the facilities, tour the facilities, but nobody is peeing in bottles." And then, of course, the press and a couple of people showed bottles with pee in them, that drivers can't stop to even go to the bathroom, which I think is a tragedy and horrible. People should not have to pee in bottles. I mean, they asked me about it on CNBC today. I was like, "Uh, this is a serious question." Like, of course nobody should be peeing in bottles. But if you look at this exchange, I think we're kind of hitting the end of this debate, which is everybody kind of agrees, we should have healthcare for everybody in the country. We should have a $15 minimum wage. Why are we dunking and fighting with each other when we've got this adversary which is... or two adversaries, with Russia and China. We have these two crazy adversaries who want to build authoritarian countries and control the economy and eventually control the planet. Why is, why are Americans fighting with each other over these issues?

   28. CPChamath Palihapitiya40:32

       I mean, this is, this is just incredible. I, I just want to read it.

   29. JCJason Calacanis40:35

       Yeah, read it.

   30. CPChamath Palihapitiya40:35

       Bernie Sanders says, "I look forward to meeting with Amazon workers in Alabama on Friday. All I want to know is why the richest man in the world, Jeff Bezos, is spending millions trying to prevent workers from organizing a union so they can negotiate for better wages, benefits, and working conditions." To which he replies, "All we want to know is why the senator is one of the most powerful pols and poli- politicians in Vermont for 30-plus years and their minimum wage is still only $11.75. Amazon's minimum wage is $15 plus great healthcare from day one. The senator should save his finger-wagging lecture until after he actually delivers in his own backyard." To your point, it, it is getting to a point now where folks are like, "All right, guys, so step up and change the laws, um, and change the incentives." And I think that that's going to be really important. Saksi, you had something that you, uh, you were really miffed by, uh, what Zuck said or something, uh, at the thing about all this?
4. 48:42 – 1:00:18

   Suez Canal, rethinking our centralized infrastructure & supply chain risk management, infrastructure bill concerns

   1. CPChamath Palihapitiya48:42

      uh, of what Facebook and Twitter effectively told Congress this week. Um, I wanna talk to you guys about what the hell, what the hell is going on in the Suez Canal and what does this mean?

   2. JCJason Calacanis48:49

      (laughs)

   3. CPChamath Palihapitiya48:51

      I mean, uh, Friedberg, what the fuck is this? This is unbelievable.

   4. DFDavid Friedberg48:56

      You know, it's so random, um, and unfortunate, but this, uh, this ship that weighs 200,000 metric tons, uh, that's taller, it's longer than the Empire State Building is tall, going through the Suez Canal, which I think, you know, there's about 100 ships a day go through the Suez Canal. Um, and it's, uh, you know, the Suez Canal, uh, really is, um, uh, you know, kind of an, uh, amazing engineering accomplishment that, uh, connects the, uh, Mediterranean Sea to the Red Sea. It basically, uh, allows ships from Asia to not have to go all the way around Africa to get to Europe. And, uh, the ship, uh, goes into the Suez Canal and it had a blackout. Its power went out. And so it just kept cruising without being able to control the steering, 'cause there's, like, friggin' power steering on these massive ships.

   5. CPChamath Palihapitiya49:41

      (laughs)

   6. DFDavid Friedberg49:41

      (laughs) You know, like, they don't have, like, a wire connected to the rudder.

   7. CPChamath Palihapitiya49:44

      (sighs)

   8. DFDavid Friedberg49:45

      And so, um, you know, the thing with-

   9. JCJason Calacanis49:47

      No backup, no backup battery supply, I guess.

   10. CPChamath Palihapitiya49:48

       It was knocked down?

   11. DFDavid Friedberg49:49

       Who knows?

   12. JCJason Calacanis49:49

       Exactly.

   13. DFDavid Friedberg49:49

       No one knows. But like, the power went out and the whole total blackout on the ship, they couldn't get the power back on and the thing just keeps cruisin' and cruisin' and cruisin' and it cruises right into the side, which is this big sand barrier on either side of the Suez Canal, and it gets lodged in the sand barrier on the side. Now when you have 200,000 metric tons moving at a few miles an hour, that's an incredible amount of momentum of energy. And so it, when it lodges in the side, that's, you know, it's lodged in there. And now it's stuck.

   14. JCJason Calacanis50:15

       Mass times acceleration equals stuck. (laughs)

   15. DFDavid Friedberg50:17

       Yeah, it's actually mass, half time, mass times velocity, but yeah.

   16. JCJason Calacanis50:20

       Mm-hmm.

   17. DFDavid Friedberg50:20

       Y- you're close. And so, um, the thing just, uh, basically got lodged in there and they can't get it out. And now they think it's gonna take another week or two before they'll be able to kinda dig all around the sand and tugboat the thing out of there. Um, but I think what's interesting, so 10% of global trade moves through the Suez Canal. And about 100 of these massive ships a day, uh, you know, move through this canal. But it really highlights the fragility of our global supply chain. Similar to kind of the experience I think we had during the COVID pandemic when all of a sudden things like toilet paper were less available to us. Um, but, you know, a, a small power outage on a boat, on a ship, you know, uh, in the middle of, um, uh, of the Suez Canal can suddenly block up so much of global trade and cause, you know, massive fluctuations in commodity prices and availability of supplies and products for businesses around the world, there's gonna be rippling economic effects for a period of time. It's unclear how significant they're gonna be, but, you know, I, I really do think that, um, taking note of the fragility of our, of our supply chain in this particular context is worth taking a step back. And, you know, I, I, I, I spend a lot of my personal, uh, my work time, uh, obviously off the podcast, thinking about kind of our systems of industry. And, you know, the, the global industrial revolutions were really predicated on this notion of centralization. You know, we took, um, uh, a lot of our production systems and we centralized them and, and created automated repeatable tasks, and that reduced the cost and allowed us per unit of production, uh, to basically make things much more affordably. But the problem with centralization generally speaking in supply chains is exactly this, which is you, you have a supply chain, um, that is much more delicate. Uh, and, um, it is much more... I, I mean, think about the difference in power, right? If the power goes out at a power plant, all the homes that are connected to it lose power, versus if every home had their own power generator or solar cells, they could continue to support themselves. And in a similar context, so much... And this goes back to our conversation earlier about globalization, so much of our global supply chain for industry has become centralized by finding the lowest cost possible, but it loses all of its durability. And so the 21st century, and especially leading into this infrastructure bill that we're gonna be talking about, or, or that's gonna be talked about for, for a long time now, for months to come, presents an opportunity for us to think about durability in industry and durability in supply chains that I think is really profound and allows us to shift the balance of, um, of power, but also shift the sen- uh, the, the, the sources of production of all the things we consume as a species, uh, in a, in a much more distributed way. And that can be done using green technology, using, you know, 3D printing-

   18. CPChamath Palihapitiya53:00

       3D printers, yeah.

   19. DFDavid Friedberg53:00

       ... using biomanufacturing, you know, using, um, uh, solar. Uh, there's a lot of technology-

   20. CPChamath Palihapitiya53:05

       Vertical farming comes to mind.

   21. DFDavid Friedberg53:06

       Vertical fa- well, yeah, whatever, um, I, I, I'll disagree with you on that one and we'll talk about that separately. But I, I would argue like so much of, um, of industry has been centralized because remember, when the industrial revolutions took hold, the only skill set we had as a species was mechanical engineering. And in the years that followed we developed skills in chemical engineering and ultimately in software and hardware engineering. And now more recently in biochemical engineering where we can use biological systems to make stuff. And the advent of those technology capabilities I think really gives us the opportunity today to reinvent these supply chains. Um, and so the Suez Canal, I hope, is a little bit of a wake-up call, and I hope leads into some of the thinking around the infrastructure build proposals where we're about building durability in the supply chain. And in that process, by the way, creating manufacturing jobs, um, you know, in a more distributed way.

   22. CPChamath Palihapitiya53:54

       Let me build on, uh, what you're saying. So for all of the people listening that really, really care about, um, electrification and electric cars, and there's a bunch of Tesla bulls here, you know, Tesla uses a specific kind of battery called NCA. And, uh, there's, you know, other forms of batteries, but for the most part, and Tesla in China uses, uh, this LFP chemistry. But the point is, uh, there's a lot of very, very valuable nickel that goes into making lithium-ion batteries. And so if you believe in electrification and you believe in, you know, zero emissions and you believe in using these batteries, you need to believe in nickel, which is a tough business, okay? You're, you're grabbing, you know, rock out of the ground and you're leeching this, this extremely important, uh-... metal out of it. So just, uh, uh, a little while ago, there is a huge nickel manufacturer, uh, called, uh, Norilsk Nickel, right? And they have these, uh, two Russian nickel mines and just very recently, they flooded and, uh, the plug which had been erected for localizing the flooding was washed away, not for the first time, not for the second time, but for the third time. And people now think that getting all this water out of the mine, um, may take at least a year. Okay? So what, w- why should we care? Well, right now, if you think about all the batteries that we're forecasted to make in order to sort of eliminate climate change and, you know, do all these good things and for, you know, Tesla to, to make their, you know, beautiful cars or whomever that, that, uh, you know, um, they need nickel. And right now, we have, we have a deficit of nickel that's going to emerge now in less than a year, and we have l- uh, we have about a 37 to 40% shortage of what we need. So it's like you have all these grandiose visions of how the world should work and, uh, an electric failure in a barge shuts down the global (laughs) supply chain for weeks.

   23. JCJason Calacanis55:50

       Yeah. A flood in a nickel mine. (laughs)

   24. CPChamath Palihapitiya55:51

       A ph- a flood in a nickel mine is gonna cause the price of a Tesla to basically double. And shouldn't people at some point ask ourselves, "Is this really what efficiency is supposed to feel like on the ground?" And it may not be, right? And so maybe, again, going back to the first conversation, a little bit more inefficiency, a little bit-

   25. JCJason Calacanis56:12

       Redundancies.

   26. CPChamath Palihapitiya56:12

       ... more inflation, a little bit more redundancy will allow us to be resilient and maybe that's what we really want. (laughs) We don't- (laughs)

   27. JCJason Calacanis56:19

       Well, I mean, you could ask the people in Texas what they want after they lost their power and-

   28. CPChamath Palihapitiya56:24

       It's unbelievable.

   29. JCJason Calacanis56:24

       ... they, they have, they have one light snow storm and the whole city is destroyed.

   30. CPChamath Palihapitiya56:27

       Unbelievable.
5. 1:00:18 – 1:02:49

   Microsoft in talks to buy Discord for $10B, Sacks on SaaS exits from Yammer experience

   1. JCJason Calacanis1:00:18

      plant in this country without it taking decades. And-

   2. CPChamath Palihapitiya1:00:22

      Any, uh, any, any interesting updates on the business side? I saw, uh, is Microsoft really about to buy Discord for $10 billion?

   3. JCJason Calacanis1:00:29

      Yeah, if you look at that compared to, you know, the Slack acquisition is Slack got bought for 28 billion with... Was it 800 million in revenue, yearly revenue at the time? And Discord has 150 million and they're gonna for 10, so-

   4. DFDavid Friedberg1:00:43

      That's unbelievable.

   5. JCJason Calacanis1:00:44

      It's, it's an even higher multiple 30 times revenue versus 75-

   6. DFDavid Friedberg1:00:47

      Sax, how do you feel about your Yammer sale for 1.2 billion at this point? (laughs) I mean, holy-

   7. CPChamath Palihapitiya1:00:51

      Well, it was, it was, in hindsight, it was probably cheap, but-

   8. JCJason Calacanis1:00:53

      It made the market.

   9. DFDavid Friedberg1:00:54

      You know?

   10. CPChamath Palihapitiya1:00:55

       Yeah.

   11. DFDavid Friedberg1:00:55

       Yeah.

   12. JCJason Calacanis1:00:56

       Yeah.

   13. CPChamath Palihapitiya1:00:56

       Well, I mean, back in-

   14. DSDavid Sacks1:00:57

       ... 2012, we, we really thought back in 2012 that one to two billion was like the best case-

   15. JCJason Calacanis1:01:04

       The upper bound.

   16. DSDavid Sacks1:01:04

       ... scenario of, yeah, the upper bound of what a SaaS exit would look like. Uh, we just never realized how big the market could get and now, obviously, you have Slack at close to $30 billion, you have DocuSign IPOing at $40 billion, you have Zoom at over $100 billion. And so the market's just ended up so much bigger than we ever thought and we were the optimists. We were the ones building companies in SaaS back then. And so the cloud has just been so... I mean and you see this now with, you know, the numbers that Azure and, uh, Google Cloud and AWS keep reporting where they're at like tens of billions of revenue and they're still growing like 40%, 50% a year. So the cloud is just so much bigger than what we all thought and what came before, so that's wh- I mean so I've just decided to stop trying to find new ideas and just ke- I mean new the- like a new thesis and just keep investing in this. That's why I'm kinda all in on, on SaaS right now.

   17. JCJason Calacanis1:01:58

       Do you think Microsoft is doing this to compete with Slack or they're doing it to just really take over gaming? Do you have any insights Sachs?

   18. DSDavid Sacks1:02:06

       I think probably, it's probably an element of both where, uh, they do, like w- one of their few consumer business lines that's done really well is Xbox and gaming and they bought Minecraft and so I think they can get some value out of it there, but I have to believe that this is competitively driven. They gotta be worried about Slack. I mean the crown jewel at Microsoft is the Office suite. The reason they bought Yammer is to accelerate the transition of Office into cloud, social and mobile and, uh, and it, it did help do that. Uh, they gotta be worried about Salesforce now buying Slack. I mean that is, Benioff has been wanting to go after Office for a long time and this is his way to do it.

   19. JCJason Calacanis1:02:47

       Yeah. All right, uh,

6. 1:02:49 – 1:11:16

   Poker talk, going to the movies, Disneyland, EU incompetence

   1. JCJason Calacanis1:02:49

      there you have it folks. Uh, another All-In podcast is in the can. Let me just ask a question. Are people making summer plans and fall plans based on the post-pandemic world?

   2. I'm making, I'm making, I'm making tonight plans. I can't wait to get you victims into the poker room. Sachs-

   3. DSDavid Sacks1:03:05

      (laughs)

   4. JCJason Calacanis1:03:05

      ... I want you to fly in please. Sachs, come and play.

   5. Come play poker with us. What are you doing?

   6. We need a full Besty victim.

   7. What are you doing? Well, Sachs, what's your plan tonight? Like are you going to some fancy (beep) pasta restaurant with your wife and-

   8. What are you doing? Popping bottles with (beep) (beep) ? Yeah. Who are you hanging out with tonight, Sachs? What are you doing? Yeah, what are you doing these days, Sachs?

   9. DSDavid Sacks1:03:23

      I'm just hanging with the kids. It's Friday night, I mean I'm helping out.

   10. JCJason Calacanis1:03:25

       Okay, I'm just gonna ask again, do you know their names?

   11. DSDavid Sacks1:03:28

       (laughs)

   12. JCJason Calacanis1:03:29

       Sachs, put 'em to bed.

   13. How many kids do you have?

   14. Put 'em to bed. Fly up north.

   15. When are your birthdays? (laughs)

   16. Come to the poker game.

   17. Tell us your kids' middle names. (laughs)

   18. (laughs)

   19. DSDavid Sacks1:03:38

       (laughs)

   20. JCJason Calacanis1:03:38

       Oops.

   21. DSDavid Sacks1:03:38

       Actually that's a good one. That's a good one.

   22. JCJason Calacanis1:03:41

       (laughs) Oops. Whoops.

   23. (laughs)

   24. (laughs)

   25. You're like yeah whatever, John, Sue. Who knows? I went to the movies last night. Um, I was, I took my 11-year-old out. She wanted, she was, uh, uh, she wanted to go to Shake Shack so I took her to Shake Shack and the movie theater was there and it was open and I was like, "Oh let's go check it out of what's going on at the movie theater." And Terminator 2 was playing 15 minutes later.

   26. Great film. Great film.

   27. Incredible film. Holds up and amazing to see on the big screen. We walk in, I kid you not, you know, 100-seat theater with these beautiful big chairs. Nobody there and they were so excited.

   28. Wait sorry Jacob, did you rent the whole thing?

   29. No. It just happens to be that they're open for business.

   30. That's so awesome.

Episode duration: 1:14:00