E68: Trudeau invokes emergency powers, Bitcoin vs. government, Tiger Global's new strategy and more

1. 0:00 – 1:43

   Sacks needs the ball

   1. CPChamath Palihapitiya0:00

      So, Sax, are we gonna talk with each other today? Or, you know, or...

   2. JCJason Calacanis0:03

      He's a, ISO player. He turned into an ISO player. He's like the Carmelo Anthony of this (beep) squad.

   3. DFDavid Friedberg0:06

      He's the Carmelo Anthony of the All-In pod. Sax, you wanna pass the ball? Or y- you just wanna... You wanna clank it off the rim?

   4. JCJason Calacanis0:13

      Rain man! Clank! (laughs)

   5. CPChamath Palihapitiya0:14

      I think we should have a focus on having a dialogue with each other today, several points in the thing, as opposed to all standing up, saying our piece, and then hopping off-

   6. JCJason Calacanis0:20

      Yeah. Sax, w- we lost a little bit of the fiber of this team here. There's three people playing as a team, and then there's like-

   7. CPChamath Palihapitiya0:24

      Sax, I would love to ask you questions, and I would love for you to ask me questions.

   8. DSDavid Sacks0:27

      It's not my job to pass the ball, J-Cal. You're the (beep) guard, you pass the ball. I'm supposed to score.

   9. JCJason Calacanis0:31

      Oh, really?

   10. CPChamath Palihapitiya0:32

       (laughs)

   11. DSDavid Sacks0:32

       Remember what, uh, Shaq used to say when he wasn't getting the ball? He gets really unhappy. He said, "Pass the ball to the big dog, he'll score."

   12. JCJason Calacanis0:39

       Yeah, okay. Sure.

   13. DSDavid Sacks0:40

       I'm Shaq. You're... No, you're not Kobe.

   14. JCJason Calacanis0:42

       No.

   15. DSDavid Sacks0:42

       Who is the, the shitty little, like, off guard-

   16. CPChamath Palihapitiya0:44

       (laughs) Derek Fisher?

   17. DSDavid Sacks0:45

       Yeah, you're Derek Fisher.

   18. CPChamath Palihapitiya0:46

       (laughs)

   19. JCJason Calacanis0:46

       Um-

   20. DSDavid Sacks0:46

       Make sure the big dog gets the ball, there won't be any problems.

   21. JCJason Calacanis0:48

       N- I'm Bob Cousy, okay? I'm Gary Payton in this (beep) interview here, okay?

   22. DSDavid Sacks0:54

       (laughs)

   23. NANarrator0:54

       Let your winners ride. Rain man, David Sax. Going all in. And I said- We open source it to the fans, and they've just gone crazy with it. Love you besties. Queen of quinoa. Going all in.

   24. JCJason Calacanis1:10

       Hey, everybody. Welcome to the All-In podcast, where three besties talk about a range of talkem- topics-

   25. CPChamath Palihapitiya1:16

       (laughs)

   26. JCJason Calacanis1:16

       ... and one monologues about Biden derangement syndrome.

   27. CPChamath Palihapitiya1:19

       (laughs)

   28. JCJason Calacanis1:19

       With you again this week, the sultan of science and the dictator, Chamath Palihapitiya-

   29. DFDavid Friedberg1:25

       (laughs)

   30. JCJason Calacanis1:25

       ... David Friedberg-
2. 1:43 – 13:45

   Trudeau invokes emergency powers to try and stop the truckers protest

   1. JCJason Calacanis1:43

   2. DSDavid Sacks1:43

      (laughs)

   3. CPChamath Palihapitiya1:43

      (laughs)

   4. JCJason Calacanis1:43

      Justin Trudeau has invoked an emergency order to freeze bank accounts linked to trucker protests in Canada. On Monday, Trudeau invoked an emergency law that requires financial institutions in Canada-

   5. DFDavid Friedberg1:56

      (laughs)

   6. JCJason Calacanis1:56

      ... to examine customer records and take action against people involved with or aiding in the protest. Here's, uh, Trudeau's tweet from yesterday, if you're watching on the video streams, "Illegal blockades and occupations are not peaceful protests. They are a threat to jobs and communities, and they cannot continue." In the House of Commons earlier today, I joined members of the Parliament to speak about that and about the need to invoke the Emergencies Act. The Counter Signal, which is a right-leaning Canadian digital publication, reported that 34 different crypto wallets were also being targeted by Canadian officials. This law grants the government extraordinary powers, like the right to ban public assembly in certain locations. The Canadian Civil Liberties Association said it planned to challenge the government's decision in court. Uh, remember, Sax wrote a piece on financial deplatforming for Bari Weiss's Common Sense about a year ago. The piece was about the private sector financial platforms deplatforming folks. Uh, so your thoughts? Sax, you have 90 seconds on the uninterrupted clock.

   7. DSDavid Sacks2:59

      (laughs)

   8. DFDavid Friedberg3:00

      (laughs)

   9. DSDavid Sacks3:00

      On the shot clock. All right. Thank you, J-Cal. Yeah, it's true. Uh, last summer, I wrote a piece for, uh, Bari Weiss's, uh, Substack, talking about how financial deplatforming would be the next wave of online censorship. And here we are. It's actually happened. What I could not have predicted is that it would occur in our mild-mannered neighbor to the north, and that the reprisals would be directed by the government itself, not just, uh, a consortium of, of private actors. And what Trudeau has done is, he didn't just employ the Emergency Act against the truckers so that he could basically arrest them and break up the protest. They have now directed banks and any financial institution, even cryptocurrency wallets, to freeze the accounts, not just of the truckers', but anybody who's contributed to them. Basically, anyone who's contributed $25 or more. Um, th- there were two, uh, crowdfunding sites that they raised money from. All those people, the thousands of ca- of just ordinary Canadians who did nothing more than contribute to an anti-government protest, they are now at risk of financial ruin because their bank accounts have been frozen. And you have to wonder, w- what is the end here that justifies the means? COVID, you know, Omicron is on the wane, it's on its way out. At the same time that Trudeau was announcing these dictatorial measures, th- uh, Ford, the, the, the guy who runs, uh, Ontario, the largest province-

   10. JCJason Calacanis4:24

       15 seconds.

   11. DSDavid Sacks4:25

       Ford was out there saying that he was gonna... Uh, that COVID mandates were gonna be over. So, why exactly are they doing this? W- you know, we're at the end of COVID, and, um-

   12. CPChamath Palihapitiya4:35

       Sax, let me ask you a question.

   13. DSDavid Sacks4:37

       Yes. Go for it.

   14. CPChamath Palihapitiya4:37

       If, um, if there were people online making donations to the criminals who loot and kill people in San Francisco, which you've railed against being criminals who are breaking the law and should all be put behind bars, do you think that it would be appropriate in that context for the government to block their donations to supporting criminal activity and a criminal ring, um, you know, that I think we all agree, uh, you know, should- shouldn't be transpiring?

   15. DSDavid Sacks5:03

       Well, but the, but you're, the implication there is that truckers are using violence or, or something like that, and they're not. I mean, it's been, it's been largely a peaceful protest. It's been very annoying to people whose, you know-

   16. CPChamath Palihapitiya5:14

       But, but hasn't... But isn't, isn't the case being made that they are actually breaking the law by blocking streets? And that's not... You know, there's a peaceful protest where you can go and get a permit and actually go in a public zone and peacefully protest within the con- the, the, the confines of the law and what's allowed in that jurisdiction.

   17. DSDavid Sacks5:28

       Look-

   18. CPChamath Palihapitiya5:28

       But what, what these folks are doing is civil disobedience, which is not a peaceful protest. It is, you know, kind of breaking the law to make a point.

   19. DSDavid Sacks5:36

       It is peaceful because there's been no violence. If you look at actual videos-

   20. CPChamath Palihapitiya5:39

       But, but they're breaking the, they're breaking the law, right?

   21. JCJason Calacanis5:41

       Well, let me, let me ask the question for Friedberg then. Um, Sax, if a group of truckers were shutting down the Bay Bridge with three lanes of traffic and then shut down the 280 and the 101, and it impacted this... If they in fact are shutting down roads that, that then makes emergency-

   22. CPChamath Palihapitiya6:00

       And picked up our families and our businesses and our emergency travel-

   23. JCJason Calacanis6:01

       ... and, and ambulances can't get through, would you want them to be towed?... would you want their cars to be towed?

   24. DSDavid Sacks6:05

       Listen, here- here's the thing. The Ambassador Bridge, th- this vital chokepoint of commerce between the US and Canada, that was blocked and that was creating a serious problem, but it had already been cleared on Monday by the time that Trudeau invoked the Emergencies Act. And then on Tuesday-

   25. JCJason Calacanis6:21

       Right.

   26. DSDavid Sacks6:21

       ... he then invokes this Financial-

   27. JCJason Calacanis6:23

       Well, but what in your opinion- your opinion, Sax, if they- if they block roads and bridges, would you, if you were in charge-

   28. CPChamath Palihapitiya6:28

       If they're breaking the law-

   29. JCJason Calacanis6:28

       Yeah, if they're breaking the law in that way, it's not just-

   30. CPChamath Palihapitiya6:31

       ... in a way that-
3. 13:45 – 25:37

   Bitcoin's role in decentralizing currency away from potentially hostile governments

   1. DFDavid Friedberg13:45

      Crisis.

   2. CPChamath Palihapitiya13:45

      Do you guys think that there's a moment here that also is a mile marker on the road towards the state versus crypto, given the actions that were taken against Bitcoin wallets?

   3. JCJason Calacanis13:55

      100%.

   4. CPChamath Palihapitiya13:55

      Because that seems to be, like, a big trend that's gonna play out over the next decade or two.

   5. JCJason Calacanis13:59

      There, there are plenty of-

   6. CPChamath Palihapitiya14:00

      Dude, inevitably crypto is the threat to the state, right? And so, you know, you're gonna see skirmishes like this that kind of, you know, hey, wallets that donate are illegal, and you know...

   7. JCJason Calacanis14:10

      Friedberg, this is one of the best points you've made.

   8. CPChamath Palihapitiya14:13

      Yeah, thank- thank you.

   9. JCJason Calacanis14:13

      If you look at what this has done to Bitcoin, and you look at what it's done for other cryptocurrencies, this will do more than McDonald's accepting Bitcoin, because this is the first time, like, a Western democratic state is seizing people's funds, like, in an incredibly unfair, unnecessary way, which is just gonna have more people say, "You know what? Maybe I should keep some of my net worth out of the government's purview if they're gonna seize it anyway," and then now people are gonna start looking into the coins that allow people to-

   10. DFDavid Friedberg14:39

       You can't conflate having an enemy with having a different view.

   11. JCJason Calacanis14:43

       100%.

   12. DFDavid Friedberg14:43

       Those aren't the same thing. Having an enemy is a serious deal, right? Whether that's domestic or international, that's what we had to do in World War I, World War II, and the FLQ Crisis. This is just somebody who has a different opinion. "I don't agree in mask mandates" is what one person says. "I want a mask mandate" is what the other person says. The idea that you can deplatform one or the other, or fire them from their job, or prevent them from having access to the money that they've earned, or preventing other people from donating money, that's really, um... it's a really low bar. And I think when you normalize this kind of behavior, it's a very slippery slope. And so if, if somebody else were to do it, they now have e-... like, it's... again, going back to, um, the René Girard sort of philosophical discussion from last week, one of the things, uh, about, you know, uh, these stoning rituals, right, that Sacks talked about, uh, that we talked about last week, one of the things that René Girard talks about is it is always hardest for that first person, right? The first person that throws the stone, right? That's how Jesus was able to diffuse that, uh, that incident, as described in the Book of John. But in a different example, the first person that throws a stone all of a sudden normalizes it for everybody else after them, and then these stonings become commonplace, or became commonplace. So similarly, it's like, if you're a sitting democratic person who just decides this doesn't work for you, you can't flip the script and, and basically remove everybody's democratic rights. That's really crazy.

   13. JCJason Calacanis16:12

       Sachs, you had a closing point you wanted to make.

   14. DSDavid Sacks16:14

       Well, okay, just on this point about Bitcoin, the, the reason why Bitcoin is necessary is because the tactics that Trudeau is using is essentially to starve these truckers out, to not only basically arrest them and t-... but he's also taking away their insurance licenses. He's basically preventing them from ever working again. He's talked about that. "We're gonna put... give you a criminal record. It's gonna make it hard for you to get a job." And then most importantly, on top of that, he's preventing anyone from helping them by contributing to them, by making a donation. So he's effe- essentially starving these guys out, and that's the reason why Bitcoin is potentially helpful, is it allows people using noncustodial wallets to make an end run around that and donate and help these, these people who are being persecuted, essentially.

   15. JCJason Calacanis16:57

       I mean, he could have just simply chosen to do what Sacks' favorite president, Obama, did with Occupy Wall Street, which is say, "Great, you have something you want to voice. Here's where you can do it. Just, you know, no guns, no violence, but we let..." H- how long did Occupy Wall Street last in downtown Wall Street and in Oakland and other places? Like a year or two. And you just wait them out, and, and that's it.

   16. DSDavid Sacks17:19

       I think when you encounter a sincere protest movement, the first thing you should do as a leader is actually listen and try to understand-

   17. JCJason Calacanis17:25

       Sure.

   18. DSDavid Sacks17:25

       ... what it is that they're protesting on behalf of, and Trudeau never did that.

   19. JCJason Calacanis17:29

       That's all right.

   20. DSDavid Sacks17:29

       He went straight to, uh, to 11 with this, and I think part of the reason why... I mean, Jcald, you asked wha- why, why is it that, that... you know, there seems to be a common denominator with this and with the Ukraine issue, that the leaders are immediately escalating these situations instead of looking for a way to deescalate it, and they're doing it with the media egging them on. And so as, as harsh as Trudeau's rhetoric has been, the media's rhetoric around this has been even worse. You have this CNN contributor, Juliette Kayyem, who's also a Harvard professor, who basically tweeted that Trudeau, uh, needed to "slash their tires, empty the gas tanks, arrest the drivers," you know, making it unclear how you'd ever get the trucks off the bridge. Uh, but then she said, "Cancel their insurance, suspend their driver's license, prohibit any future regulatory verification."Uh, she says, "Trust me. I will not run out of ways to make this hurt." You know, it's, you have the media cheering this on, egging on Trudeau. They're doing the same thing, beating the drums of war on Ukraine. What is wrong with these people?

   21. JCJason Calacanis18:31

       Yeah, deescalate and where's the off-ramp? I mean-

   22. CPChamath Palihapitiya18:33

       I think the biggest, the biggest story is this, um, this Bitcoin thing because, you know, if you guys think about like pre-1960s, like capital wasn't digitized. It was like physical, like you had to own like a stock certificate or cash or gold or a bearer bond.

   23. JCJason Calacanis18:50

       Yeah, sure.

   24. CPChamath Palihapitiya18:51

       Uh, t- t- today everything is digitized, right? Like there's a digital record of, you know, who owns what stock and who, how much is in your bank account, and none of it is tied to your having a physical asset. And, uh, ultimately the law was able to reach into these digital systems and have greater, um, uh, oversight and ultimately control, uh, you know, over accounts and so on. And it's had a, you know, the digitization of, of capital assets has had an incredible ability to drive economic growth and investment and ease of transaction. But it's also significantly increased the centralization of assets or, or the central influence over assets. Bitcoin seems to be the resolution to that, and now you're seeing the ultimate challenge to Bitcoin and the challenge to decentralized systems like Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies and so on. I don't wanna speak-

   25. JCJason Calacanis19:37

       Yeah.

   26. CPChamath Palihapitiya19:37

       ... specifically to any one, but there, there seems to be like this trend line over the last 60 years that's now being challenged because you could have your accounts frozen any moment, um, you know, for breaking the law or because emergency acts are, are induced. And I think you're right, it's probably gonna accelerate interest in these kind of off-government chain-

   27. DFDavid Friedberg19:57

       If Trudeau can do it-

   28. CPChamath Palihapitiya19:57

       ... into some separate chain. Anyone can do it.

   29. DFDavid Friedberg19:59

       ... a lot of them, anybody can do it.

   30. CPChamath Palihapitiya20:00

       They're doing it in China, right, and they're, uh, and I, I, don't know if you guys-
4. 25:37 – 42:02

   San Francisco Board of Education recall: what this means for the boundaries of progressivism

   1. JCJason Calacanis25:37

      Three members of the San Francisco Board of Education were recalled this week massively. They lost by between 72% and 79%. These were the virtue signaling maniacs who wanted to change the names of all the schools, wouldn't reopen the schools, yada yada. And this, uh, really frustrated, and they wanted to get rid of elite AP classes. All of this, uh-

   2. DFDavid Friedberg26:01

      Oh, they, they did, Jason. They did.

   3. JCJason Calacanis26:02

      They did, yeah. Um, and these three board members are out, so London Breed, uh, who is-

   4. DFDavid Friedberg26:07

      In the middle, Jason, Jason, just to be clear, in the middle of a pandemic, I think my understanding is that instead of figuring out how to get these kids back in class, how to figure out how they could take off their masks, they wanted to drop Abraham Lincoln and George Washington's name from schools 'cause it was, it was too regressive.

   5. JCJason Calacanis26:24

      Yep.

   6. DFDavid Friedberg26:24

      They canceled the gifted program because it made other kids feel bad. And a gentleman that wanted to serve on a committee who I think was gay but not minority was excluded because he wasn't a minority, enough for them. So th- these are the three people that, uh, 76% of San Francisco citizens or, you know, residents just, uh, recalled.

   7. JCJason Calacanis26:48

      And if you're not following this, the tech industry had a, a major part in this in terms of backing it. There was a lot of claims, uh, which I'll let Saks address in a moment, uh, that this was a Republican-driven, out of state movement. But if you look, (laughs) there are not 100,000 (laughs) Republicans in San Francisco in all likelihood. This was actually, uh, parents, uh, in a lot of cases based on the geography of San Francisco and the density of certain populations. A lot of Asian Americans came out in force. In some neighborhoods, 90% were voting to oust these people. Uh, Gary Tan, uh, who is a product of the San Francisco public education system and a great entrepreneur and venture capitalist, uh, was a leader in this movement. So congratulations to him, and this all is going to culminate, I think, in May or June, Saks will correct me, with the recall effort for, uh, Chesa Boudin, uh, this killer DA who won't prosecute anybody. Saks, what are your thoughts on this victory? And full disclosure, you were a major donor to this.

   8. DSDavid Sacks27:44

      I was the second-largest donor, and I was the, the largest donor under age 90. Arthur Rock was the biggest donor. What a badass, by the way. The guy's 95 years old. He donated $400,000 to this, uh, recall. Um, you know, he was a-

   9. JCJason Calacanis27:56

      But you, in fairness, you live in San Francisco.

   10. DSDavid Sacks27:58

       Yeah.

   11. JCJason Calacanis27:58

       This is a backdoor issue for you. You care about this.

   12. DSDavid Sacks28:00

       Oh, yeah. Yeah, look, I think crime and schools are the key quality of life issues in any community, and that transcends partisan boundaries. If your kids cannot get a quality education and you cannot be safe in your community, nothing else matters. And that matters to Democrats just as much as Repub- as Republicans. And that's why, like you said, three-quarters of San Francisco voted for this recall, even though 85% of them voted for Biden. It's not, it's basically a 90% Democrat city. So, uh, you know, all these claims that it was a Republican recall turned out to be nonsense. This was something that was broadly supported. And, um, and you know, look, it's the same reason that Youngkin flipped a, you know, plus 10 Democrat state in Virginia, which is that, you know, it had a lot to do with school closures. They kept the schools closed for a year and a half. Uh, and then when they were supposed to have conversa- uh, a PTA meeting about reopening it, like Chamath spent, said, they spent five hours debating whether to l- allow this beloved gay parent onto a voluntary school board, they didn't. They spent all their time, you know, talking about changing the names of the schools instead of how to reopen them. They also, there was chronic mismanagement. I mean, the school's something like $125 million in debt despite, you know, being in a very rich, um, city.

   13. DFDavid Friedberg29:13

       They opened for one day-

   14. DSDavid Sacks29:14

       That's right.

   15. DFDavid Friedberg29:15

       ... just so that they could get a state, uh, piece of the state budget pie. So these kids clamored back to school just so that they could lea- technically say, "Yeah, we were open," and to get I think it was a $12 or $13 million check, and then they shut the schools down again.

   16. DSDavid Sacks29:28

       Right. And you brought up a key point, Jason, which is that th- the Asian American community in San Francisco has been absolutely galvanized by this issue because the school board also, you know, Lowell High School was one of the best schools in the city, and it was merit-based, and it had great advanced math programs. And this, this board basically got rid of all of that stuff, and it infuriated the Asian American community, many of whose most prominent members have basically riv- risen out of poverty because of the education they got at Lowell. And so this war on merit that's happening is something that is going to, you know, flip the, you know, Asian, uh, American community, I think, to-

   17. DFDavid Friedberg30:06

       When I, when I was growing up, I grew up in a French ghetto of Ottawa, and I was supposed to go to a local high school that was just plainly trash. And I was able to go to an equivalent of Lowell, this, a public magnet high school that had, uh, advanced classes and everything, a gifted program.... and it really did change my life. And so I really understand what people are saying, which is like when you're in poverty, the only way out is through an education, really. You may g- you know, get accidentally lucky, but the only really predictable sustainable pattern here is, is through school. And so when you deprive folks from being able to get a decent education and there's no real, you know, orderly logic to it, it's a really ridiculous kind of an idea. The other thing is, I think that this speaks very powerfully, as Sachs said, as a non, as a bipartisan issue that these Democrats have to get right. Because, you know, you saw this also in, uh, Virginia, where Democrats basically went down this one tack and, you know, the Republican candidate, Glenn Youngkin, basically said, "Hey, listen. The schools are broken. It completely doesn't make any sense. We oppose a lot of what's going on, the watering down and the critical race theory, et cetera, et cetera." And he put it to a vote, and a lot of people across the aisle there as well, where typically ardent Democrats basically voted for this Republican governor. I think the point is that there are just several issues that are just so transen- like, they're just, they transcend all party lines, and this is an anchor issue that we have to get right.

   18. JCJason Calacanis31:45

       Friedberg, any thoughts on this? Do you think this is the start of maybe a turnaround for San Francisco? 'Cause Chesa Boudin is w- way more hated and safety is an even bigger issue, I think, for a lot of people right now in San Francisco, and it dovetails with Asian hate and the number of Asian people targeted in crimes. So he's gotta ... I mean, if these people got out by 75% on average, he's gonna be out by 95%. Is this a tipping point? Is San Francisco n- gonna make a rebound here, Friedberg?

   19. CPChamath Palihapitiya32:13

       I don't know. I mean, look, I, I think there's generally a broader trend and momentum around what we classify as wokeism, which I think is a little bit disparaging to the intention of social justice and recognizing the, the, the primary points of social justice through action and behavior, um, in civic discourse and government behavior. Um, and you know, this, like the, um, election of several DAs around the country, uh, who take a different stance to prosecution of crime to try and create better options for rehab and, and, and so on, um, I think is not a movement that's gonna go away overnight. I think there's certainly a, a, a st- a hef- a hefty amount of resistance, but what we're really doing right now is, I think, we're learning and realizing the boundaries of this movement and of this moment. Um, the one boundary that I think San Franciscans are too bad- San Francisco, like, you know, as in the case in tech, has always been so progressive in terms of, you know, doing these things faster than, than anyone else. But what we're realizing in San Francisco is non-prosecution of criminals, uh, as the DA has undertaken over the past couple of years, leads to really heinous crime, um, and rampant crime.

   20. JCJason Calacanis33:30

       Yeah.

   21. CPChamath Palihapitiya33:30

       And, um, and, and, and this kind of social justice movement within the education system causes a decline in the value of our education system. Those are two really important learnings that San Francisco has had over the past couple of years with this very important, um, and momentous kind of social justice movement, but it doesn't mean that the movement is over. It doesn't mean that quote unquote wokeism is over. It means that that social justice intent is still there, but we're realizing where the boundaries are and how far things can and maybe should go.

   22. DFDavid Friedberg33:58

       I posted this article. Um, Tyler Cowen, who's a, you know, pretty well-known economist, he wrote this op-ed for the, for, uh, Bloomberg, and what he said is that wokeism has peaked. Um, and there's just these two passages that bu- builds on what Friedberg said. Uh, quote, "By wokeism, I refer to a movement that, on the positive side, is highly aware of racism and social injustice and is galvanized towards raising awareness. On the negative side, it can be preachy, alienating, overly concerned with symbols, and self-righteous." Unquote. And I think that that probably does summarize sort of like where it starts, which is, I think, rooted in a very good place, but unfortunately, all too often, where it ends, which is that sort of moral absolutist judgment cancel culture around it. Um, and then the second quote that he said was the following. He said, quote, "Wokeism is likely to evolve into a subculture that is highly educated, highly white, and fairly feminine. That is still a large mass of people, but not enough to run the country or all its major institutions. In the San Francisco school board recall, for instance, the role of Asian Americans was especially prominent." Unquote. So I don't know. I just think that all these things sort of ... You know, people are looking for affiliation, and you start with labels that bring you in, and then you have to sort out are all these labels really true, and how true are they? And I think we're in this moment now where-

   23. CPChamath Palihapitiya35:24

       The pend-

   24. DFDavid Friedberg35:24

       ... now that we know the mechanism of action of wokeism, I just don't think it works anymore.

   25. CPChamath Palihapitiya35:28

       (laughs)

   26. DFDavid Friedberg35:28

       And I think a lot of people will say, "I believe in the high order ideals of racial and social justice, but I don't believe in the mechanism of action, and so-"

   27. CPChamath Palihapitiya35:34

       Yeah. The pendulum's swung too far.

   28. DFDavid Friedberg35:36

       Yeah.

   29. CPChamath Palihapitiya35:36

       But, but, but the core intent of a generation of change is underway, which is social justice and climate change. I think those are the two big, uh, points of concern.

   30. DFDavid Friedberg35:45

       It just won't be done with this cohort under this partnership.
5. 42:02 – 1:11:24

   Assessing Tiger Global's new strategy: less late-stage private companies, more Series A and B rounds, more compressed public tech stocks

   1. JCJason Calacanis42:02

      this is, seems like a good turning point. Let, let's, um... We talked about on this podcast over and over again about the compression in SaaS multiples, in the public market valuations, uh, something that we're still working through in the stock market, uh, which has been choppy at best over the last couple of months. An information story came out, uh, just this week, major crossover funds like Tiger and D1 are slowing down their investments in late-stage private companies. And I was talking to some folks who said the multiple compression is here now. They're not doing the deals at 75 or 100X, uh, revenue. This was reported, uh, in an article by The Information. Tiger Global told their LPs in a webinar...... earlier this month that it would no longer focus on backing late-stage startups preparing to go public. Instead, they will focus on two things, going even earlier (laughs) into series A and series B rounds, and buying shares of public tech companies that have sunk in value compared to the all-time highs. Uh, obviously we know Twilio, Zoom, Block, all down over 60% from their one-year highs. I could get into more details here, but let's stop for a second. And Chamath, what are your thoughts?

   2. DFDavid Friedberg43:05

      In, uh, (clears throat) the dot-com bubble, it took somewhere between three to five years for most stocks to bottom, and they bottomed, I think, peak to trough, somewhere, you know-

   3. JCJason Calacanis43:17

      90.

   4. DFDavid Friedberg43:17

      ... towards 80% of where they were in 2000, right? So, it took three to five years to go basically minus 80%. We did that in three months, you know, maybe four months.

   5. JCJason Calacanis43:30

      Efficient.

   6. DFDavid Friedberg43:30

      And so, uh, the markets have become a lot more efficient over time. So, now that we have that reset, it's pretty natural that there's going to be a very quick reset on the private market side. And, you know, you have to go where the bodies are buried, and what I mean by that, in this case, is the overwhelming misvaluation of late-stage private companies. And so these folks don't have much of a choice. They have a lot of money that they've raised before all of this happened. They have a huge portfolio of stuff that they've marked up or have been marked up by others, and they don't want to go through the pain now of resetting. So, part of the easy strategic decision there is to say, "You know what? We know this is a little bit radioactive, but instead of really figuring out what the mark on these companies are, we'll go to a different sort of part of the, um, playground and play there because we don't have to go and deal with these issues, and, you know, we're, we can do $10, $15, $20 million checks into early-stage businesses." Pretty normal reaction strategically, but I think the reality is that at some point in the next year or two, these other companies have to get public. The hope is that the market catches back up so that you can defend the last valuation, and that's the, that's the way that this stuff doesn't require a lot of pain. The problem is if you're high burn and you were counting on yet another successive round, or you're at a point in your life cycle where you need to go public, in the next two years, if you go public, you will get taken to the woodshed.

   7. JCJason Calacanis45:06

      Taken to the woodshed being, your valuation might be half of what it is in your last round. So there's gonna be medicine that has to be taken. Sacks-

   8. DFDavid Friedberg45:12

      There'll be medicine.

   9. JCJason Calacanis45:13

      ... some people are gonna have to take some medicine. Sacks, what's your best advice, being one of the great operators in the history of Silicon Valley as the CEO of PayPal and Yam-

   10. DSDavid Sacks45:20

       Oh, gee, thanks, JCal.

   11. DFDavid Friedberg45:21

       (laughs)

   12. JCJason Calacanis45:22

       Well, I'm gonna put you up there with Sheryl. I mean, I think the s-, I think everybody would agree, the top four, people can correct me here, Tim Cook-

   13. DFDavid Friedberg45:28

       I was a good operator.

   14. JCJason Calacanis45:29

       (sighs) I mean, I, I saw what you did to ICQ, man. You were riding that, that bad boy down. That wasn't easy.

   15. DFDavid Friedberg45:35

       I mean, I delivered a billion fucking users to a company on a product.

   16. JCJason Calacanis45:37

       Okay. All right.

   17. DFDavid Friedberg45:37

       It's pretty decent.

   18. JCJason Calacanis45:39

       Um, you did pretty good at Facebook, I'll say that. But if, I would think most people would say Sacks, Sheryl, Tim Cook, Keith Rabois. We'll put that aside for the debate in terms of operating-

   19. DFDavid Friedberg45:49

       Oh, throw in a little d- throw in a little dark spicy barbecue pork here. Come on. Give me, give me a little-

   20. JCJason Calacanis45:52

       I'll put you in the top 25, Chamath. Sure.

   21. DFDavid Friedberg45:54

       Okay. Good. Good.

   22. JCJason Calacanis45:54

       Uh, okay. But I mean, it wasn't your cr-

   23. DFDavid Friedberg45:56

       All right.

   24. JCJason Calacanis45:56

       It wasn't your chosen career, let's be honest.

   25. DFDavid Friedberg45:57

       A little dark meat. A little dark meat. Nice, JCal.

   26. JCJason Calacanis45:59

       (laughs) Please don't get me in trouble, my good-... Bring me into your-

   27. DFDavid Friedberg46:02

       A little dark meat, bro. Thank you. I appreciate it.

   28. JCJason Calacanis46:03

       ... your orbit. (laughs) I'm stepping back for-

   29. CPChamath Palihapitiya46:05

       Wait, JCal, who are your top four? Sheryl, Tim Cook-

   30. JCJason Calacanis46:07

       I put my top four in this order. I'll give it in order.

Episode duration: 1:29:42