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E73: Late-stage VC markdowns and mistakes, market strategy, Ukraine/Russia update with Brad Gerstner

0:00 Bestie Guestie Brad Gerstner is filling in for Friedberg 1:34 Understanding public SaaS and Internet multiples, Instacart's cuts its valuation by 40%, understanding reality of overvalued late-stage companies 21:52 Capital allocators at fault, how crossover funds are reacting, late-stage price discovery, investor and founder behavioral psychology 40:37 Sacks' burn multiple, managing growth spend, new VC qualifications, lessons from the COVID bubble 53:58 Russia/Ukraine: US potential non-ceasefire strategy, Zelenskyy's revelations in CNN interview, rhetoric getting more aggressive 1:08:58 How will Putin withdraw without redacting the sanctions? What is the offramp? Zelenskyy's posture on global war 1:24:18 Understanding China's recently announced tax cuts, All-In Summit talk Follow the besties: https://twitter.com/chamath https://linktr.ee/calacanis https://twitter.com/DavidSacks https://twitter.com/friedberg https://twitter.com/altcap Follow the pod: https://twitter.com/theallinpod https://linktr.ee/allinpodcast Intro Music Credit: https://rb.gy/tppkzl https://twitter.com/yung_spielburg Intro Video Credit: https://twitter.com/TheZachEffect Referenced in the show: https://sacks.substack.com/p/the-burn-multiple-51a7e43cb200 https://substack.com/profile/11803623-jamin-ball https://twitter.com/nfergus/status/1506243619384037378 https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-03-22/niall-ferguson-putin-and-biden-misunderstand-history-in-ukraine-war https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10014.html https://twitter.com/samramani2/status/1507378113893871617 https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-first-phase-ukraine-operation-mostly-complete-focus-now-donbass-2022-03-25/ https://www.wptv.com/news/national/russia-ukraine-conflict/zelenskyy-warns-of-world-war-iii-if-russia-ukraine-peace-talks-fail https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/03/20/zelensky_ukraine_failed_putin_talks_would_mean_a_third_world_war.html https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/20/zelenskyy-ukraine-zakaria-interview-00018716 https://fortune.com/2022/03/25/russia-g20-summit-putin-biden-indonesia-bali-china-ukraine/ https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/23/world/europe/putin-speech-russia-ukraine.html https://fortune.com/2022/03/24/putin-russia-natural-gas-europe-imports-pay-in-rubles-sanctions/ https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-arabia-considers-accepting-yuan-instead-of-dollars-for-chinese-oil-sales-11647351541 https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/23/world/europe/putin-speech-russia-ukraine.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/24/biden-says-us-would-respond-to-russia-if-putin-uses-chemical-or-biological-weapons.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/03/09/blinken-u-s-would-not-recognize-crimea-secession/ https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-sticks-with-longstanding-u-s-policy-on-use-of-nuclear-weapons-amid-pressure-from-allies-11648176849 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-21/china-embraces-supply-side-economics-with-tax-cuts #allin #tech #news

Jason CalacanishostDavid FriedberghostBrad GerstnerguestChamath Palihapitiyahost
Mar 25, 20221h 36mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

VC valuations reset, startup survival, and Ukraine war’s economic shock

  1. The episode features Brad Gerstner joining the All-In hosts to unpack the sharp repricing of tech and SaaS stocks, arguing it’s a painful but necessary normalization after the zero-interest-rate, stimulus-fueled bubble of 2020–2021.
  2. They explain how rising rates mechanically compress revenue multiples, why late-stage venture is essentially “closed” without real price discovery, and what this means for unicorns, down-round IPOs, and founder playbooks.
  3. The conversation shifts to the Ukraine–Russia war, where Sacks and Gerstner argue U.S. policy appears focused on using overwhelming economic sanctions to weaken Russia—potentially at the risk of recession, famine, and escalation—rather than prioritizing a rapid ceasefire.
  4. They close by noting global demand destruction (energy prices, no more stimulus, higher mortgages), China’s move to stimulate its economy, and the need for investors and founders to re-focus on quality, efficient growth, and realistic outcomes.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Rising rates mechanically compress growth valuations by 15–20% per 100 bps.

Chamath summarizes Brad’s framework: when rates go from 0% to ~2.5–3%, SaaS and internet valuations should be 30–40% lower, even if companies keep executing perfectly.

Late-stage venture is mispriced and effectively “closed” until reality hits.

Gerstenr says most late-stage unicorns still reflect 2021 fantasy multiples; real price discovery will only occur when they must raise or IPO, likely at 40–60% lower valuations and many down-round IPOs.

Founders must manage to runway, efficiency, and profitability—not just growth.

Sacks pushes burn multiple as a critical metric (aim ≤2, ≤1 is excellent), and the group stresses that healthy gross margins, contribution margins, and a clear path to EBITDA-positive within ~2 years are now survival requirements.

“Nth player” startups in crowded, capital-intensive markets are in serious danger.

Delivery apps, neobanks, and low-end SaaS relying on paid acquisition face rising CAC and intense competition from public incumbents; many will be forced into brutal down rounds or fail outright.

VC behavior and weak governance amplified the bubble and will amplify the bust.

They criticize late-stage investors for chasing logos, stripping protections, overpaying with no ratchets, prioritizing velocity of deals over judgment, and ignoring unit economics—leaving employees and founders holding the bag.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

“Multiple expansion hides many sins, and now the opposite is happening in a dramatic and historic way.”

Brad Gerstner

“In an up market the three things that matter are growth, growth, and growth. In a down market, the three things that matter are growth, burn, and margins.”

Chamath Palihapitiya

“You couldn’t pry a late-stage dollar out of my hand right now because I don’t think we have real price discovery going on.”

Brad Gerstner

“Clapping is not a strategy. Clapping is something people do at the blackjack table—it doesn’t influence the cards.”

Chamath Palihapitiya

“We should be pushing for lead, not bleed—lead the way to a ceasefire, not to inflict maximum damage on the Russian regime.”

David Sacks

Normalization of tech and SaaS valuations after zero-interest-rate bubbleImpact of interest rate hikes on revenue multiples and late-stage ventureUnicorn markdowns, down-round IPOs, and structural problems in late-stage VCStartup survival strategies: burn multiples, unit economics, and path to profitabilityCapital allocator behavior, governance failures, and misaligned VC incentivesUkraine–Russia war: sanctions, U.S. strategy, and global economic risksMacroeconomic outlook: inflation vs. recession, China’s stimulus, and demand destruction

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