All-In PodcastTucker Carlson: State of America, leaving Fox News, Media Control, Politics, and more
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,050 words- 0:00 – 0:59
Bestie intros! Tucker Carlson joins the show
- JCJason Calacanis
This is Sax's big day. There he is. Oh, there's Tuck- oh, look at the smile on Sax's face. (laughs)
- CPChamath Palihapitiya
This is the greatest day in the history of the All-In Pod.
- TCTucker Carlson
(laughs)
- JCJason Calacanis
Look at how happy Sax is! Oh! (laughs)
- TCTucker Carlson
(laughs)
- CPChamath Palihapitiya
Oh, wow.
- JCJason Calacanis
Sax! (laughs) Look at Sax! With Sax, with a sword. (laughs)
- TCTucker Carlson
By the way, I'm not, I'm not ashamed of that. You're not... no, come on, I'm honored.
- JCJason Calacanis
Oh, whoa, Sax!
- TCTucker Carlson
Whoa. Whoa.
- JCJason Calacanis
He's getting i- i- this heated up quickly.
- CPChamath Palihapitiya
Tuck- now, how threatened do you feel right now? This is the highest-rated host in, in cable history. This is the world's true greatest moderator.
- TCTucker Carlson
Exactly.
- JCJason Calacanis
Yeah, no doubt. No doubt.
- TCTucker Carlson
(laughs)
- JCJason Calacanis
Absolutely. Absolutely.
- CPChamath Palihapitiya
Sax, where is this in relation to your marriage and the birth of your children?
- TCTucker Carlson
(laughs) Don't ask.
- CPChamath Palihapitiya
It's right up there.
- JCJason Calacanis
Up there.
- TCTucker Carlson
He's like, "What children?" (laughs) It is for me.
- NANarrator
I'm going all in. Let your winner slide. Rain Man, David Sachs. I'm going all in. And I said. We open-source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Love you guys. Queen of quinoa. I'm going all in.
- 0:59 – 10:49
Tucker's departure from Fox News
- NANarrator
- JCJason Calacanis
All right, everybody. We've got an amazing guest for you today here on the All-In Podcast. Sax, his dream has come true. Tucker Carlson is with us today. You know Tucker. He was the number one TV host for much of the past decade, including last year, when, shockingly, he was fired from Fox News on April 24th. Reason for the firing? It's never been pinned down, but maybe we'll get into it today, and we're gonna find out what is motivating a post-Fox News Tucker who has, obviously, launched a show on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter. He's done 42 episodes and counting. He's had everybody from Donald Trump, Andrew Tate, Dave Portnoy, and the newly elected president of Argentina on the program. So, welcome to the All-In Podcast, Tucker Carlson.
- TCTucker Carlson
Thank you for having me. It is, it is a legit honor to be here.
- JCJason Calacanis
Two-part question to kick us off here. First, have you figured out why you were fired from Fox? And let's get into that a bit. And second, given that you were the number one host for, for much of the past decade and, I think, probably in the top five highest paid of all time, what's motivating you now? What's the mission here as an independent journalist? Take those two questions in whichever order you like.
- TCTucker Carlson
I, I don't know why I was fired. I mean, it kind of is an Agatha Christie story. There are, like, so many suspects, you know what I mean? Um, but I, I don't know. I was never told. I can only speculate. There were a lot of different things going on. I had a lot of opinions that were unpopular, you know, with people who might've influenced, uh, my show getting canceled. So I, I, I really don't know. I will say, you know, right after it happened, people said, "Well, how can they fire the top guy?" And b- because that's what it is. I'm certainly not the first high-rated host to get fired. It's not only about ratings. There are a lot of different factors. It's a big company. You all have worked for and run big companies, and you know it's, there's a lot of complicated stuff going on. And, um, and it's never exactly clear, you know, why things happen the way they do. But I was not shocked by it. I mean, I was shocked by it in a short-term sense. I didn't expect to have my show canceled that morning. But, um, but I was not shocked at all, uh, when I thought about it for a minute. I'd expected that. You know, you can't kinda, m- give the finger to everybody, um, and persist in a, in a corporate job. So I, no hard feelings. I, and I, and I, in fact, I said that on the call when I received the news. It's, it's not my company, and I never felt like I had a right to be on the air. I was, I was working at the pleasure of the family that runs the company, who treated me very well and, and, um, and they wanted me off, and so I was off.
- JCJason Calacanis
Did you ever have moments where somebody taps you on the shoulder and says, "Advertiser XYZ is getting uncomfortable," or, "We're trying to land this new advertiser," and-
- TCTucker Carlson
Right.
- JCJason Calacanis
... they want you to shape things in one rou- did you ever feel that pressure? Is that... or is that just a thing that is kind of like a boogeyman that doesn't actually exist?
- TCTucker Carlson
Oh, it, well, it, it not only exists, it defines news coverage.
- JCJason Calacanis
Hmm.
- TCTucker Carlson
E- especially on pharma, you know, because pharma's the biggest advertiser in television, as I know you know. And so, for sure. I mean, if, you know, Pfizer's sponsoring your show, you're not gonna question the facts. I mean, it's kinda that simple. Uh, so absolutely. And of course, that's why they're the biggest advertiser, so they can shape news coverage. I mean, that's, that's the point. But, um, I personally never had a single person say to me, "Don't say this," that I recall. I haven't thought about it too much. But that certainly... I was there 14 years, and I, I didn't have that experience regularly, eh, or at all, really, that I can remember. And, and I think, you know, my producers may have been told that, but it, it didn't ever get to me because I was always really clear, which is I- I always said out loud to the supervisors there, "You know, I work for your company. I don't own this network. All I can control is what I say. If you don't like what I say, don't have me on TV. But as long as I'm on TV, I'm gonna say what I think is true." And, and a million cases, I said only part of what I think, not because of my employer, but just because you shouldn't actually say everything you think. I mean, I have some crackpot views too, or I have resentments that I didn't wanna work out on the air. I mean, I did, you know, you restrain yourself and you want to, as you do in your personal life. But on no question of principle did I ever pull back, because I just, I wouldn't do that. And again, I was just super clear. "If you don't like what I'm saying, take me off the air, but I'm not gonna, you know, toe a line." And because I was so clear about that, I, I just think they didn't think it was worth having some kind of dispute with me. And, to their great credit, for the time that I was there, and I said this many times in public, like, I took positions on the Ukraine war, on the COVID vaccine, on the COVID lockdowns, among other issues that I think, you know, I've been vis- vindicated on pretty conclusively on the origins of COVID. And all of those are super unpopular. On January 6th, which was ha- so hated at the company where I worked that people resi- a number of people, including on-air people, four that I can think of, resigned in protest over my s- over me suggesting that actually it was more complicated than it looked. And there were a bunch of federal agents in the crowd. "How can you say that? Are you claiming a false flag?"... well, no, not, wouldn't use that phrase, but, like, this is something weird going on here. Well, I've been vindicated on that. I'm- that sounds like I'm bragging. I'm not. I'm just stating factually that, uh, I said things that were truly hated by a lot of the people who worked there and they let me keep saying them. So it's kinda hard to complain really at this point, right? Again, it's not my company.
- DSDavid Sacks
Just from a business standpoint, I think it's weird for a company to fire their top performer and to do so without giving any notes. I mean, if any of us had a superstar executive or a superstar engineer, like 100X engineer working at one of our companies and, like, day in and day out they were, you know, hitting every milestone and crushing it, like, if you had a problem with them, you would give them a note. You would just, like, try to say-
- TCTucker Carlson
Right.
- DSDavid Sacks
... "Hey, can we just, like..." And so I just think from, like, a business standpoint, it's so weird. It just seems, like, self-destructive. And I think it was. I mean, their ratings really cratered in the wake-
- TCTucker Carlson
Right.
- DSDavid Sacks
... of making this change. Maybe they've come back a little bit, but I don't think it's ever been the same. I just think it's a crazy way to operate a business. So yeah, it's their right. I mean, they can do whatever they want, but I don't understand it as a way of doing business.
- TCTucker Carlson
Well, I don't understand it as a way of living either. I mean, you know, y- everybody in the course of life, whether it's a, a parent or an employer or just a friend, has to deliver uncomfortable news or disagree with someone that you deal with. And you have a moral obligation to explain the disagreement. You, you can't just l- you know, levy the penalty and leave it at that. You have to explain why you're doing that. And, and I think that's... It's, it's incumbent on us morally to do that. I wasn't that mad about it actually because I know the rules of that particular business which are, are really harsh. And, and I've been in it, you know, my whole life and so I've seen a lot of people as talented or more talented than I meet bad ends and in s- you know, in, in... for reasons that I thought were not justified. And, and I know them all really well. So I... Y- y- you work in a business like that, you know what it is, you know the black car is gonna show up at 3:00 AM and tote you to LaBianca-
- DSDavid Sacks
Ugh.
- TCTucker Carlson
... and that's just what it is. You know what I mean?
- DSDavid Sacks
Yeah.
- TCTucker Carlson
You can't kind of whine about it, you know?
- DSDavid Sacks
Yeah.
- JCJason Calacanis
Well, how much of it was the, you know, this is a family-owned business-
- TCTucker Carlson
Mm-hmm.
- JCJason Calacanis
... and the patriarch obviously pioneered opinion-based, you know, journalism/entertainment commentary-
- TCTucker Carlson
Yes.
- JCJason Calacanis
... and the younger ones maybe were on the other side of, uh, the political aisle and maybe were not as, I don't know, cutthroat or maybe didn't share the same philosophy o- of, uh, their dad.
- TCTucker Carlson
M-
- JCJason Calacanis
What was your relationship like with the, the new generation, with Rupert, etc., and how much did that play into it, do you think?
- TCTucker Carlson
Well, my, my relationship with the father and son who are directly involved in, in that company was, from my perspective, very strong. And, um, I will say this about the Murdochs, they're very polite. I mean, th- they're really kind of (laughs) very Anglo, a- almost elaborately polite in a way that I'm not mocking, I'm complimenting. And, um, th- they're not confrontational, they're not nasty in the way that they deal with people directly and, and I prefer that as sort of a way of communicating with people. So I got along with them very, very well. I always liked them and they were, uh, very nice to me, elaborately nice to me, and always gave me assurances of my right to say what I thought was, was true. And so again, I can only speculate. I will say though, and you see this with Trump especially, I don't think I'm anywhere near as divisive as Trump, obviously I'm not as powerful as Trump, I'm not the figure Trump is, but one thing that maybe Trump and I have in common is we're really disliked by a certain set of people, you know, affluent people, highly educated people, people who work at NGOs, government finance, you know, who really kind of hate a certain brand of politics. So it's not being conservative. You can be conservative in the sort of, you know, "I work at Cato or Heritage," or, "I," you know, "We need to get back to free trade," or whatever, that kind of thing, the Reaganite foreign policy. That's all fine. But if you start asking questions like, "Well, why doesn't our country act in its own interest?" there's something about that that's uniquely offensive to them, uh, to that whole class of people. Now, I could not have more contempt or loathing for those people. Having grown up among them, I know how repulsive they are. So-
- 10:49 – 30:53
The state of American society and the importance of rediscovering national alignment
- TCTucker Carlson
wants to deal with that?
- JCJason Calacanis
I wanna actually pull this thread. I would love your perspective on the state of American society, just less on the political spectrum of Republican-
- TCTucker Carlson
Right. Yes.
- JCJason Calacanis
... versus Democrat, but just, just observe for us, Tucker, what do you see in American society? Where are we as a society? What has happened? What is happening?
- TCTucker Carlson
Well, this isn't an eight-hour podcast. I could actually give you my very lengthy theories and views on that. But I will just say one thing that's, w- I've been thinking about a lot recently. I just had been, had my college roommate staying at my house and, um, you know, we're of course the same age, known each other our whole adult lives, he's been very successful and he lives in a, you know, an enclave of very, very successful people. And, and so we're, we're familiar with this culture. And we were talking about American d- And he's from an immigrant family, so he's got a kind of broader perspec- I would argue a broader perspective on, like, America. He's 54 as I am. And we were talking about how obviously this is not a democracy, it's not even a, a (laughs) sort of decent, uh, facsimile of a democracy. It's, to call it a democracy is, like, r- ridiculous actually. But w- it's even worse than that. Our politics, and not just our politics but our public conversation, reflects the very specific and parochial concerns of a tiny, tiny group of people which is middle-aged affluent women who tend to be very angry and tend to, um, mostly with their husbands but probably for other reasons too, and exercise this, like, wildly disproportionate power over what we can talk about and think about and, and the rules that the rest of us live by. It's just kind of amazing. And he happens to live in Jackson, Wyoming, so, and I go there, you know, to ski and to fish.... and I have for a very long time. And I always say to him, "I can't go anymore," because I get yelled at at lunch over my elk chili or in the lift line or whatever, or at the, you know, West Side Market. Literally, uh, a relative of mine yelled at me while buying bananas in the w- you know, in the West Side Market. She lives there. And I'm thinking, "What is it about this group of people that hates me so much when, again, I know them really well?" I'm related, in some cases, to them. So and I'm not quite sure, but I just n- I, I see our politics and our concerns, which if you take three steps back are, like, insanely picayune. Like, trans black lives matter. Well, I never said they didn't. But, like, if that's your main public policy objective to celebrate trans black lives in a country of 360 million people that's got a lot of big problems, you are not seeing the whole picture. (laughs) So, like, what is that? And what it is, again, is the disproportionate influence of a class of people and their neuroses. I wouldn't even say policy concerns, but, like, there are things they're worried about and their weird personal ticks, and, like, the result of years of therapy and SSRIs on their brains. Like, that kinda controls our whole conversation. And, uh, my friend was saying 'cause he's really smart, he's like, "Yeah, but the good news is this can't last 'cause it's just too stupid." And at some point very soon, the country's gonna revert to the place that all countries begin, which is in a conversation about things that matter, like who comprises the population? Do we have enough water? Where are we on energy exactly? How are we gonna manage these complex relationships with other countries? Like, the things that, you know, the stuff of government, the stuff of, of, of col-
- DFDavid Friedberg
Resources. Yeah.
- TCTucker Carlson
Well, of cu- of course resources, but, like, just the basic questions that should dominate the consciousness of any, of any country and should dominate our public conversation. It's like our public obsessions are getting increasingly irrelevant actually.
- DFDavid Friedberg
Mm-hmm.
- TCTucker Carlson
Increasingly, it's, like, crazy. Um, and that's-
- DSDavid Sacks
As our problems get bigger.
- TCTucker Carlson
Yeah, and the problems get bigger. Right.
- DSDavid Sacks
The conversation become- the conversation becomes more inane as the problems get bigger.
- TCTucker Carlson
Thank you. Exactly. That's exactly right.
- DFDavid Friedberg
So when you look at that, that cohort's disproportion impact and then you translate it, for example, last night, there was, um, I guess like a almost riot protest when folks were trying to light the Christmas tree in Rockefeller Center, I guess, and there was, like, a huge pro-Hamas, I think, somebody check me if, if this is wrong, protest, and then people were pushing back on the cops and all of this stuff. And all these folks were trying to do was just light the Christmas tree. Can you connect the dots? How does that cohort-
- TCTucker Carlson
Yes.
- DFDavid Friedberg
... get to-
- TCTucker Carlson
It, it, it, no, but it's, it's actually a branch from the same tree, Christmas tree in this case.
- DFDavid Friedberg
Right.
- TCTucker Carlson
Um, bi- because that whole conversation, while I think it's interesting and I think it's, you know, geopolitically significant and, and I've, you know, been to those countries and I know people there so I'm, like, interested in it, and there's a lot to care about and be interested in. But the displacement of all of our public passions onto a conflict in a foreign country, however important that conflict may be, really kind of tells you a lot. It's like, in other words, yeah, I care what's happening between Israel and Hamas. I have views on it, which are probably pretty mainstream views, whatever. I don't have any very interesting views on it. But it, it's a little weird for your entire country thousands of miles away to be so preoccupied with that conflict that they miss big history-changing events happening, like, in their own country. And I think that's, again, a species of the same problem. We are unable to... The, the problems that confront us are so big that we can't deal with them. And I, and actually my wife and I had this conversation the other night. I was for years a magazine writer and I'd have to file every Friday. I worked for Bill Kristol at The Weekly Standard, and obviously I regret that. But it was interesting at the time.
- DSDavid Sacks
(laughs)
- TCTucker Carlson
And I have to file this story every week and I'd stay up all night 'cause I'm very lazy and I put stuff off, and I'd stay up every Thursday night all night, and I had to recall it's going to pr- you know, it's going to the printing press in Pennsylvania. This was back when it was in print. And you got to file it. And right around 8:30 AM on Friday morning, I would have this overwhelming urge to re- rearrange the books on my shelves in my library by title or by subject. I'd, like, have all these weird kind of, like, librarian fantasies about rearranging books, which in an- on a normal day, like, why would you do that and better things to do?
- DFDavid Friedberg
(laughs)
- TCTucker Carlson
But as my problems mounted and I couldn't, like, write the lead I wanted, I would transfer all my anxiety onto something I felt I could control or there was of lower stakes, less consequence. And I think that's kind of what we're seeing a little bit. Like, we care more about foreign wars and trans lives as, like, the obvious things that hold our society together start to fall apart 'cause, like, how do you even deal with that? Am I- I'm- I don't know if I'm being very articulate, but-
- DFDavid Friedberg
Makes actually perfect sense.
- TCTucker Carlson
... I think that's what's happening.
- DFDavid Friedberg
Uh, what do you put on the top of that list of things we should be focused on, Tucker?
- TCTucker Carlson
Oh, God. I mean, b- b- th- from my perspective, by far the most-
- DFDavid Friedberg
Yeah. If you were to rank one, two, three, this is what America needs to put its energy on.
- TCTucker Carlson
It's not even close. It- national cohesion and by which I mean something specific. What does the majority of the country have in common with one another? Because, look, if it, it, it, the arc of the last century is his- American history's super, super interesting. So you have this massive influx of immigration through the Ellis Island generation late, uh, 18th, th- uh, na- 19th, early 20th century. And it's both good and bad. We only remember the good, but there was a lot of social volatility, like a lot. Like, the mayor of Chicago got shot in his house. There was bombings on Wall Street, like the whole the wobblies, the anarchists, like the foot soldiers that were, were immigrants, working class European immigrants. And part of the problem was there was just a lot of immigrants and, I mean, Sacco and Vanzetti, you know, who shot the, shot the clerk in, uh, was it Brockton, Mass? Anyway, it was in Mass outside Boston. They'd been in the country for just a few years and they immediately got sucked into radical politics. Well, why was that? Well, 'cause they weren't kind of bought in or rooted in or hadn't been fully assimilated into American society. So then you have the First World War and we basically shut down immigration and we have this period of settling.... where like, "All Americans, let's through- let's think through our civic religion, what ties us together." And then that leads into October of '29 and you do have this national crisis that lasts for more than a decade and we didn't blow up. And we had a successful, you know, the CCC, we, like had these big programs which, I'll say this as a conservative, kind of worked in keeping people fed and focused and gave them purpose, kept the country from- from collapsing during the Great Depression. If that happened now, when there is no broad agreement on what it means to be an American, no agreement at all on what we all have in common, I don't think we could withstand it, actually. I really don't. And I'm not even convinced it matters as much what that civic religion is as it does that we have one. If we don't have anything that ties us together, when that day comes, and you know what I mean, when the economic crisis comes 'cause it's coming, like what's that gonna look like? It's gonna be very scary. And I, so that's what I'm most worried about, by far.
- JCJason Calacanis
How do you define national cohesion, I guess maybe then? Like, what are the few elements that you think America needs to agree on as a, as a majority?
- 30:53 – 59:48
Why prosperity begets self-destruction, climate change, immigration
- DFDavid Friedberg
you had a question?
- JCJason Calacanis
Well, where does responsibility lie there, Tucker? What's the mechanism for doing that? 'Cause we often-
- TCTucker Carlson
(laughs)
- JCJason Calacanis
... and I find in conversations, everyone says, "The government should." And I often question why the government should anything in my, in my life, in, in, in my social settings, in how I live, how I do business. Does the government, the federal government of the United States have a role and responsibility to do what, what you're suggesting we need to do in the United States? Or is it the media or is it social leaders or is it business leaders or is it local governments? Who is responsible ultimately for creating the social cohesion necessary for the US to enter a new era of prosperity and, uh, and why is that the right group to be responsible?
- TCTucker Carlson
Well, look, I would say, uh, well, I, I, th- the, (laughs) it's a great question, and I would say a new enter of prosp- uh, era of prosperity, I, I don't think that's really the goal. We have prosperity, um, and I think-
- JCJason Calacanis
Fair enough.
- TCTucker Carlson
... it's a real question as to whether people want pros-
- JCJason Calacanis
Social, social cohesion, right.
- TCTucker Carlson
But do people want pro- I mean, I think there's actually a lot of evidence that human beings sort of hate prosperity actually.
- JCJason Calacanis
Right. (laughs)
- TCTucker Carlson
We're not designed to be prosperous and the second we are, we invent climate crises to, to, to make us less prosperous. (laughs) I mean, that's really what that is, right? But anyway, leaving that aside, um, it's, it's incumbent on all of us, anyone with authority, anyone with a voice, anyone with money, and it's really kind of as simple... And, and I do think, you know, government is kind of the last to fall in line. It's, it's really as simple as making things socially unacceptable. We certainly s- I grew up in a world where people smoked on airplanes, okay? Now that was banned by the FAA, but it was also made totally socially unacceptable. You couldn't light a cigarette in someone's kitchen. You just wouldn't-
- DFDavid Friedberg
Yeah.
- TCTucker Carlson
... think to do that, in the same way that you wouldn't think to give the middle finger to an old lady, which is not actually illegal. But nobody would do that because it's so appalling in the minds of everybody and everyone's happy to say, "What th- what the hell are you doing?" And, and I feel the same way a- about the race stuff. It's like, oh, you know, w- race this, race that. Someone should say, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Stop that."
- DFDavid Friedberg
There's part of what you're saying which I think is, which I really agree with, which is this idea that we have gone, as the human race, okay, from having to make major adaptations over the arc of our evolution as a species to now what you're kind of saying is we're now dealing with all these minor adaptations and it kind of breaks the entire circuitry of the brain. Which is like before we had to fight to evade the animals, to feed ourselves-
- TCTucker Carlson
Yeah, exactly.
- DFDavid Friedberg
... to build the machine, to all of a sudden go from an agrarian to an industrial. These were huge adaptations. And now we have all of this almost surplus and excess, and it's a little bit of a head-scratcher for a lot of people because now all the adaptations that are left are very minor in shape. Because all of these other things that would rather occupy your time, sustenance, survival, resiliency, are taken off the table. I get that. The other part of what you say, which is very Rene Girard, which is like, hey, there's all this copying of people and desire. There's going to be violence if we don't figure out how to de-charge it. What do you think we need to do in order to do that discharge? How do you get these people to stop focusing on the small order bits and how do we reorganize people to focus on the big order bits so that we minimize this risk of violence, we minimize the one group of immutable traits fighting another group of immutable traits? H- how does that happen, do you think?
- TCTucker Carlson
You know, I'm, I'm, I'm pretty pessimistic about, about a, a, a country this big and, uh, we say the country. I mean, like when I talk about the country, I'm talking about people I know or grew up with or people who speak my language. I mean, the country is so big that something can happen in New Mexico, something big can happen in New Mexico, or San Francisco for that matter, and like people don't even know. So like, but in general, I would say, um, it, it, you know, it's, it's hard to see change in course before we're forced to. Um, and so I, you know, I do think-
- DFDavid Friedberg
You think basically there has to be a moment of something that's so egregious that causes a national reconciliation of some kind, essentially that says, "Hold on a second, what-"
- TCTucker Carlson
Do- y- you wanna know what, you wanna know what I really think, which is like-
- DFDavid Friedberg
Please.
- TCTucker Carlson
... kind of crackpot, but I know that it's right?
- DFDavid Friedberg
Yes.
- TCTucker Carlson
I, I do think the problem is, is, is prosperity. And I've noticed this as a middle-aged man as I've gotten older and I know people who've been successful, um, in some cases, very successful. And I've noticed that, um, when they succeed, when they get everything they want, they destroy themselves. I've noticed this again and again and again. It's you are the dog who caught the car. And, and it's, and actually it's more than just having idle time. There's something, there's a metaphysical quality. There's, there's, there are factors here that I don't understand that are, are, are deeper actually, but I just notice it. There's something about affluence that over time convinces people to kill themselves. And you see it like in a literal sense in the euthanasia numbers out of Canada and out of, you know, Western Europe.
- DFDavid Friedberg
Well, you see it in the, you see it in a literal sense when you look at, you know, the incidents of diabetes as correlated to GDP, right?
- TCTucker Carlson
That's right. That's exactly right. That's exactly right.
- DFDavid Friedberg
When you look at these emerging economies-
- TCTucker Carlson
Thank you. That's right.
- DFDavid Friedberg
... and as GDP cranks, the first thing that happens is heart disease cranks up and diabetes cranks up because, to your point, Tucker, they start to enjoy the prosperity of their earned life.
- TCTucker Carlson
But they're not enjoying it. That's the thing. The other thing you see-
- DFDavid Friedberg
Right.
- 59:48 – 1:09:13
Thoughts on the current political landscape and presidential candidates
- TCTucker Carlson
- JCJason Calacanis
Tucker, can you give us a rundown of the current political landscape? Just tell us. I'm just really curious what you think about RFK, Biden, Trump, Vivek.
- TCTucker Carlson
Oh, man.
- JCJason Calacanis
Maybe like 10, 15 seconds on each.
- TCTucker Carlson
It's so ha- it's so hard. I mean, uh, I... I mean, the thing that jumps out today, my view changes all the time and I don't think Biden can be the nominee. His only point was to, you know, stop Bernie Sanders basically (laughs) and he's, uh, outlived his usefulness, so I think he'll be... I'm pretty sure he'll be replaced. But, um, as on the Repu- on the Republican side and the independents, you know, it's so hard to know. I'm just mesmerized by the love for Nikki Haley-
- DSDavid Sacks
(laughs)
- TCTucker Carlson
... who's like the most... And I'm s- and like, for example, I saw Jamie Dimon, who I, who I really like and I know and I have always admired, but when Jamie Dimon starts like free balling on, you know, Nikki Haley and saying nonsensical things about Nikki Haley, I'm like, I wanna call him and say, "You're humiliating yourself." First of all, you're way out of your depth. You have no idea what you're talking about, but for another, you're just betraying how completely out of touch you are. And I think Jamie got... And again, I say this with admiration for Jamie Dimon, which is long held, but like, if you get to a place where you think that Nikki Haley has a shot of getting elected in a free and fair election, like you have no idea what's going on in your own country. It's just embarrassing to say that. Super embarrassing.
- JCJason Calacanis
Ex- explain to the audience. Unpack that. Why is Nikki Haley not fair?
- TCTucker Carlson
Her, her program... Her pro-
- JCJason Calacanis
I'm... Yeah.
- TCTucker Carlson
Uh, it really... It's not personal. I actually don't care for Nikki Haley as a person, but that's immaterial. Nikki Haley's program-... or what she stands for, what she believes, maybe moral or immoral, God'll judge. It's not popular with, with the public and it's super easy to know that.
- JCJason Calacanis
Her stance on war, specifically. Yeah.
- TCTucker Carlson
Uh, her stance on war and on economics. And-
- JCJason Calacanis
Got it.
- TCTucker Carlson
And we know that from looking at the Gallup Poll, which is a rolling survey of people's attitudes on things. And in an actual democracy, you would see the leading candidates, or people who hope to become the leading candidates, articulate concerns and lay out views that reflected the concerns of the population who are gonna vote them into office. But Nikki Haley's are-
- JCJason Calacanis
Who does that the most right now?
- TCTucker Carlson
Well, Trump.
- DSDavid Sacks
Is it fair to say Nikki Haley is basically an unreconstructed Bush Republican?
- TCTucker Carlson
Yes, yes.
- DSDavid Sacks
I mean, her views are basically-
- TCTucker Carlson
Sure.
- DSDavid Sacks
... the same views as George W. Bush. She wants to get us in all sorts of new wars and I don't even think she regrets the forever wars of the Middle East that were so disastrous. I, I haven't heard one word of criticism from her or remorse that she supported all those things. And on the economic policies, this is kind of this, like, corporatism. It's like the whole Trump rebellion never even happened in the Republican Party.
- JCJason Calacanis
Exactly.
- DSDavid Sacks
It's just like, it's just like right back to the past. And the fact that the establishment's sort of coalescing around her kind of tells me that, as much as I didn't want to believe this, I think that Trump is still the indispensable figure in the-
- JCJason Calacanis
Yeah.
- DSDavid Sacks
... Republican Party. Because if you take him away, they're gonna revert right back to where they were. They're gonna-
- JCJason Calacanis
Exactly.
- DSDavid Sacks
... go right back to the factory settings of Republicans, which is Bush Republicanism.
- JCJason Calacanis
Tucker, can you just finish the rest of them?
- TCTucker Carlson
Yeah.
- 1:09:13 – 1:33:56
Media control, the importance of free speech platforms, Tucker's future, reacting to Elon's viral moment at the NYT's DealBook Summit
- DSDavid Sacks
can be put over the top.
- TCTucker Carlson
Well, assuming that we have the same media that we had in 2020, that's true, but I mean, that's why you just got to pray every night for Elon's health. And I mean it, too, I mean it.
- DSDavid Sacks
Yeah.
- TCTucker Carlson
It's the only platform at scale in the world that's pretty... You know, there is censorship on it, but there's not mass censorship, actually. There isn't. And that's the only platform of its kind, th- uh, at scale. It's the only one.
Episode duration: 2:09:07
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