Dr. Mahesh Panchagnula |"An individual in their professional life gets paid in 2 currencies"| Ep. 22

1. 0:00 – 1:11

   Introduction

   1. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula0:00

      So we wanted to bring the math that we had learned in fluid dynamics to crowd flow, primarily to understand how stampedes start. An individual in their professional life gets paid in two currencies. On ESPN Cricinfo, we created a set of products called Smart Stats. No US faculty member gets the kind of respect in their ecosystem that an Indian faculty member gets within India. [upbeat music]

   2. AMAmrut0:39

      Hi, my name is Amrut. We've heard that IIT Madras is the best place to build. [upbeat music] So we've come down to the Sudha and Shankar Innovation Hub. We want to meet some people. These are builders. We want to talk to them about their work, and also ask them: What makes IIT Madras the best place to build? [upbeat music] Hi, welcome to the Best Place to Build podcast. This is your host, Amrut.

2. 1:11 – 1:36

   Meet Professor Mahesh Panchagnula

   1. AMAmrut1:11

      I'm sitting here with Professor Mahesh Panchagnula. He's one of the most popular professors on campus, and we'll learn today why. Uh, welcome, Professor.

   2. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula1:19

      Thank you, Amrut, for having me.

   3. AMAmrut1:21

      Uh, Professor, welcome to the podcast. I know there's a lot of ground we have to cover. Uh, we have to cover your research interests. Uh, you were a student here at IIT Madras. Uh, you've been a faculty for a while. Uh, there's some work we have to cover about the ACR office, the Incubation Cell, and, uh,

3. 1:36 – 2:59

   Sports Excellence Program at IIT Madras

   1. AMAmrut1:36

      there's just a lot, but let's start with what I think is definitely the most unexpected piece of news I've heard from IIT Madras in a long time, which was the admission of the Sports Excellence quota. Uh, what is, uh... I mean, I guess it's popularly called sports quota, but it's the Sports Excellence Program.

   2. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula1:52

      Sports Excellence Admissions program.

   3. AMAmrut1:54

      Admissions program. So can you explain what it is?

   4. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula1:57

      Sure. Um, first, thank you for having me, Amrut. I've been a big fan of the last several episodes that you've made with several of our alumni faculty, and it does a wonderful job of bringing out an angle, a view of IIT Madras that I think has been missing for some time. So thank you for stepping in to fill the gap.

   5. AMAmrut2:16

      Uh, but I'm just a storyteller.

   6. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula2:18

      Wonderful. That's exactly, I think, who we, who we need more of around this place. Uh, the Sports Excellence Admissions, um, has been a game changer in many ways. When an institution like IIT Madras lays emphasis on a pursuit that was not hitherto rewarded, you know, in the classical JEE, you know, math, chemistry, physics, sort of a framework, it raises multiple eyebrows. It raises multiple aspirations. So it's one of those things that raise both eyebrows and aspirations, and it's, it's a phenomenal initiative,

4. 2:59 – 6:22

   Implementation and Impact of the Sports Quota

   1. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula2:59

      I think. Uh, formally, we've chosen to admit two students into each of our undergraduate programs, and these two students have to qualify JEE Advanced.

   2. AMAmrut3:12

      Okay.

   3. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula3:12

      So they are, in some sense, not too distant from the rest of their peer students in the class, uh, in the old math, physics, chemistry rubric of evaluation. But their choice of which branch they actually end up in is formally decided by their sports excellence.

   4. AMAmrut3:31

      Okay.

   5. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula3:32

      The idea itself is fully to be credited to Professor Kamakoti, our director. Um, it was his brainchild that we should diversify the set of students that we bring in, so eventually the set of alumni that we graduate. We are, in some sense, too one-dimensional in our evaluations of students coming in, so the philosophy of diversifying the group of students that will come into IIT Madras will stay with us for some time to come. Sports excellence is just the jhaanki. Picture abhi baaki hai.

   6. AMAmrut4:10

      Okay. And, uh-

   7. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula4:12

      The formal process is managed, uh, by the JEE office. Uh, there's a website. We'll, I'm sure, talk about all of that, but, uh, the philosophy is to diversify the set of students that we have at IIT Madras. So imagine, you know, we bring in about 1,200 students through the JEE Advanced route to study, you know, 16-plus majors at the undergrad level at IIT Madras. And, uh, among them, among the 1,200, you know, when we reach saturation, we'll have about 32 sportspeople.

   8. AMAmrut4:47

      Right.

   9. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula4:48

      Right? And these 32 sportspeople, I'm imagining, we want them to keep their sport up. We want them to be training as rigorously as they did, you know, to achieve their junior level excellence. Now, imagine somebody who is taking care of their performance, taking care of their health at a completely different level.

   10. AMAmrut5:06

       Sure.

   11. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula5:06

       It has to rub off on the other 1,200 students that are in the... That are living around them.

   12. AMAmrut5:12

       Right.

   13. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula5:12

       So we believe this will have a much bigger trickle effect on, uh, the actual-- the, the other students as well, in terms of their, uh, you know, sort of desire to be healthy and sport, sports active.

   14. AMAmrut5:26

       Mm-hmm. Makes a lot of sense. I think, uh, [chuckles] I mean, I'm going back to my undergrad days, and I was not a very active student. Maybe did some NSO for a while. Um, so you're saying that 30 out of... 32 out of 1,200 must have crossed JEE, uh, JEE Advanced. Must have crossed JEE Advanced, and they must be good at sport at their level when they enter. Nice. Um, I, I, I want to understand, um, I feel like this is-- we've heard from other countries, like other countries and universities abroad do have something like this, uh, but it still seems quite new to India.... I don't think any of the other IITs have it. Uh, I'm not sure what their thinking is. Also, I feel like IITs are perceived as sort of bureaucratic institutions, which move slowly. So this sounds pretty new and advanced, and I'm wondering, how did the administration accept

5. 6:22 – 10:20

   Challenges and Approval Process

   1. AMAmrut6:22

      it? What were the challenges in getting it approved and getting it out there?

   2. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula6:26

      First of all, IIT is not a bureaucratic institution.

   3. AMAmrut6:29

      Oh.

   4. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula6:29

      We are substantially funded by the government, but we are left alone to do what we think is the best thing for our, for faculty and students to do. I'll give you one example: in 1975, when Mrs. Indira Gandhi imposed emergency in the whole country, um, she practically did not touch the IITs. They were left alone. Their budgets were more or less left alone, if not, you know, a slight uptick. And, uh, so that shows that the government's own stance on the IITs has always been to leave them alone and let them be the role models for the rest of the country.

   5. AMAmrut7:12

      Okay.

   6. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula7:13

      The last 10 years has been an even more of doubling down on that philosophy.

   7. AMAmrut7:18

      Mm.

   8. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula7:18

      Uh, we are seeing IITs and IIT faculty be led to be sort of invited to participate in a set of activities going well beyond our own classrooms, our own research labs. So in some sense, I want to first dispel that myth.

   9. AMAmrut7:33

      Sure.

   10. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula7:33

       Right?

   11. AMAmrut7:34

       Agreed.

   12. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula7:34

       The second point, um, we are an independent institution. Our decision-making is, is substantially within our own footprint. Um, academically, all ideas that you'll see as programs start with a faculty member or a group of faculty members coming up with that idea, in this case, Professor Kamakoti, and, uh, presumably, you know, some other small group of people that advised him. Um, then, um, that idea comes through what we call the Departmental Consultative Committees, so which is all the faculty in a particular department. And if it's a program relevant to one department, they sort of discuss it in their departments. Otherwise, there is ... It goes to the next level directly, called the Board of Academic Courses, where all departments have their representatives. These BAC-- BAC is a forum where ideas like the Sports Excellence Admission were discussed threadbare.

   13. AMAmrut8:32

       Okay.

   14. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula8:32

       Whether it was a good idea to do in the first place, whether, uh, there is l- long-term merit in this, th- in this idea, whether, uh, these students would have difficulty fitting in. So all of these were discussed threadbare in these fora. Then comes the Faculty Senate, which comprises of all the professors at IIT Madras. It was discussed threadbare for at least an hour, and I was partly party to that meeting, so I know the level of detail to which we discussed this idea before it was approved by the Faculty Senate. It went to our Board of Governors, who put their stamp of approval with the full roar of, of excitement, and then, lo and behold, we had it, uh, you know, up and running. So there is a process. The process is completely within our footprint, and the process is one that involves multiple stakeholders' deliberation. For example, the Faculty Senate has student members there, so they voice their ideas as to whether this is a good idea, a bad idea, and there was broad-based support for this across the institution. And full credit to the whole institution to have championed this, and full credit to Professor Kamakoti for, you know, coming up with the idea and, in some sense, shepherding it through.

   15. AMAmrut9:51

       Understood.

   16. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula9:51

       Um, the process didn't stop there. Once we bring these students in, we wanna make sure that they are able to navigate the academic processes-

   17. AMAmrut10:03

       Wow

   18. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula10:03

       ... uh, as easily as any other student that came through the normal beaten path of JEE Advanced. So to make sure their scholarly pursuit and sports pursuit are blended in equal measure, and they are sort of making progress in equal measure,

6. 10:20 – 13:56

   Center of Excellence in Sports Science and Analytics

   1. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula10:20

      uh, Professor Kamakoti and I discussed, uh, the best path forward. And, uh, our Center of Excellence in Sports Science and Analytics, which I lead here at IIT Madras, has been given the charge of making sure these students are, uh, making progress on both their sporting front, as well as their academics, without much trouble.

   2. AMAmrut10:46

      Okay.

   3. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula10:46

      Um, just want to address one idea, one point you raised in your question. The fact that this has sort of been the norm in, uh, in other countries, right? In the US, certainly, the NCAA, the National Collegiate Athletic Association, is very active. But broadly mixing sports with, with academics outside the US, and maybe North America broadly, is not a thing-

   4. AMAmrut11:11

      Oh, is it?

   5. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula11:12

      ... that is done very much.

   6. AMAmrut11:13

      Okay.

   7. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula11:13

      You'll see, for example, Oxford and Cambridge have this very famous cricket match.

   8. AMAmrut11:18

      Mm.

   9. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula11:19

      But those cricketers that play for Oxford or Cambridge did not come through any-

   10. AMAmrut11:24

       Okay

   11. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula11:24

       ... extra special admissions process than, uh, you know, the r- the routine process. So the idea of encouraging sports, um, is not ... I'll say, outside the US, it's still somewhat of a foreign idea.

   12. AMAmrut11:42

       Interesting.

   13. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula11:43

       So I'll say this is an idea that's not just revolutionary for India, but for this part of the world.

   14. AMAmrut11:49

       Okay. Understood. That's amazing. So last year, this was just an idea, but today it is real, and those students are here?

   15. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula11:55

       Last year in July, it was already real, in '24. It was an idea in November '23.

   16. AMAmrut12:02

       Okay. [chuckles] And, and they're here, and how are they doing? And-

   17. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula12:06

       They're doing very well. So we had the option to admit 32 students, as I said. Last year was the very first time.... and, you know, when you throw an idea like this at people, like, you know, people have eyes rais- eyebrows raised, people have questions. Um, so we had a small group of, uh, student-athletes who, who admit-- who applied to this program, and in the very first round, in July 24, we, the process, chose to admit, uh, five students.

   18. AMAmrut12:34

       Okay.

   19. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula12:35

       So we have five student-athletes right now pursuing both their sport as well as their academics at IIT Madras. They're doing very well. Uh-

   20. AMAmrut12:44

       What is the mix of sports they come from?

   21. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula12:47

       There's a water polo.

   22. AMAmrut12:49

       Okay.

   23. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula12:50

       Uh, there's a student who is very good at swimming and water polo.

   24. AMAmrut12:52

       Okay.

   25. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula12:53

       One of them is a table tennis player, a squash player, a lady who's a, a, a national-level junior squash player.

   26. AMAmrut12:59

       Okay.

   27. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula12:59

       A volleyball player, and, uh, tennis player.

   28. AMAmrut13:02

       Nice. That's a big range. Um, you mentioned, while you were talking about... You mentioned the Center of Excellence in Sports Science and Analytics, CESSA, um, which is some- something that you lead. Can you tell us what it is?

   29. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula13:16

       It was, uh, an idea that was born out of the, uh, ul- it was an idea about five years ago, uh, which is now a reality. It's got its own footprint at IIT. We've sort of a whole range of activities. I'll talk a little bit about it. But the idea was to bring the rigor of technology that we bring to, say, a gas turbine engine design or a rocket engine design to the world of athletes, coaches, and sports. The thinking of bringing world-class technology to Indian athletics required a vehicle.

7. 13:56 – 15:43

   Smart Stats and Fan Engagement

   1. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula13:56

      So this whole process of designing this vehicle started with a project we did for ESPN Cricinfo. Professor Raghunathan Rangaswamy and I led this project, where we created a set of products car- called Smart Stats. So, you know, today was the... yesterday was the launch of IPL.

   2. AMAmrut14:17

      Yeah.

   3. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula14:17

      If you go on ESPN Cricinfo, and you... They have a smart scorecard, meaning somebody who scored five runs of three balls in the first three balls and got out, is not the same as somebody who scored five runs of the very last three balls to win the match. Clearly, these last, the five runs scored-

   4. AMAmrut14:39

      As winners, yeah

   5. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula14:40

      ... are more valuable. So the smart scorecard has a way of using AI to sort of give you a more correct view of the value of the runs that were scored and the value of the wickets that were taken. You could play several what if games. What if a catch was dropped or a catch was caught? What if an umpiring decision went the other way, an LBW decision? Um, so this whole, um, discussion around the coffee maker the next morning is far richer because of-

   6. AMAmrut15:12

      Yeah

   7. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula15:12

      ... the smart scorecard. That's the fan engagement side of things.

   8. AMAmrut15:16

      Yeah, we've seen a... I've, I mean, I've seen this, and a lot of people have, might have also seen this smart scorecard.

   9. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula15:21

      It was an IIT Madras, um-

   10. AMAmrut15:23

       I did not-

   11. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula15:24

       ... project.

   12. AMAmrut15:25

       Okay.

   13. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula15:25

       Well, uh, and starting from there, we've come a long way. We've then sort of done other things. We've now created a Center of Excellence, and as part of the Center of Excellence, we wanted to align the center's efforts to what our Olympic desires are,

8. 15:43 – 18:16

   Aligning with Olympic Goals

   1. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula15:43

      primarily. While cricket is still one of the sports that we... And cricket today is, of course, an Olympic sport.

   2. AMAmrut15:48

      Sport from 2028.

   3. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula15:49

      But, um, government of India has a program called TOPS, Target Olympic Podium Scheme, and for TOPS, they've identified a small set of sports that India will double down on. And, uh, so we've aligned our research and development projects to help those sports, primarily among them, boxing, archery, and shooting.

   4. AMAmrut16:13

      Okay.

   5. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula16:13

      Um, and going forward, wrestling, judo, t- will all be added. And so we have significant research efforts in boxing, archery, shooting, cricket, tennis, table tennis, which are all sports where India has made significant, uh, has won-

   6. AMAmrut16:30

      Has won model- medals or has, um, there are championship-

   7. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula16:33

      Has potential-

   8. AMAmrut16:34

      Yeah

   9. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula16:34

      ... to really win a lot of medals, uh, and athletics included.

   10. AMAmrut16:39

       Nice, very interesting. Uh, this is, uh, the... A- and I also understand that in your research area, you've, you've sort of had this sports engineering overlap for a while, right? It's very interesting. I think when we think of, uh, uh, sports and engineering, what you see in movies, right? What you see in movies like Moneyball or, uh, or people analyzing their shots or stuff like that. I think it's a lot more than that, I'm guessing.

   11. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula17:06

       That's a start. That's the fan engagement end. Like I said, the water cooler conversations the next morning are primarily motivated by Smart Stats, which was an IIT Madras project. And going forward, I think athletes and coaches and, um, institutions within India need technical support, sensor development, data analytics, um, looking at a holistic view of performance in any given sport, from biomechanics to, to psychological, giving our sportspeople a psychological edge on the world stage. All of these are ideas that can be helped by technology, and in all of those spheres of development, CESSA is today present. We work very closely with Sports Authority of India, with multiple federations, multiple IPL teams, multiple, um, institutions, non-governmental institutions within India, um, to really further the cause of sporting in India at the elite athlete level.

   12. AMAmrut18:10

       Very interesting, Professor. I, I understand that, um, you were in the US, and you came back to India to join IIT Madras as a faculty

9. 18:16 – 19:16

   Professor Mahesh's Research Interests

   1. AMAmrut18:16

      member. And, uh, uh, while we spoke a little bit about sports, sports is not your only interest area. You obviously have different, uh, interest areas. You mentioned to me earlier that, uh, uh, you were, uh, you... Are you from... Is your background primarily in fluid mechanics?... uh, and then some work there. Do you wanna talk about it a bit?

   2. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula18:33

      Sure. Um, so I'm a, a fluid mechanician. More broadly, I'll say a mechanician.

   3. AMAmrut18:40

      Okay.

   4. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula18:40

      Um, so I work in, uh, problems which involve large sets of data. So sports happens to be one such interest. My own PhD was in, um, aircraft engine spray combustion. I didn't do the combustion part in my PhD, but looked at spray, fuel sprays, which are essential to producing energy out of liquid fuels. Uh, so I've continued to work in that space, and I've continued to apply tools I've learnt in that space to other, uh, realms where-- other problems where that skill

10. 19:16 – 20:37

    Fluid Mechanics and Crowd Dynamics

    1. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula19:16

       is useful. For example, over the past, uh, five or six years, we've looked at, uh, dense crowds and, you know, large human gatherings. How do these large human gatherings move? It's almost like when you do a drone shot of a very dense, large human gathering, it looks like a slurry, concrete slurry flow. You can't tell the difference, unless somebody pointed out those were heads and not, you know, aggregates in a, in a concrete flow. Um, so we wanted to bring the math that we had learnt in fluid dynamics to crowd flow, primarily to understand how stampedes start, and what can police do to prevent these stampedes? Where do... Given a certain design of a crowd flow, crowd management system, where are stampedes likely to happen geometrically, geographically? So we've sort of worked closely with, uh, temple administrators to help them design crowd management systems.

    2. AMAmrut20:16

       Oh.

    3. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula20:16

       We were most recently involved with the Kumbh, to do a post-facto analysis of some of the, the crowd flow data that we have. So largely, I will say the purpose of, uh, working with, um, large sets of data leading to actionable insights, uh, drives my broad research programs.

11. 20:37 – 22:18

    Aerosol Research and Lung Function

    1. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula20:37

       Uh, again, in the past half a dozen years or so, uh, even a few years before COVID, we've been working on, uh, how-- what happens to aerosol when we breathe, uh, all of this dust, dust, and crap into our lungs? Our lungs are remarkable organs, that they are not there just to provide you oxygen. They are there... We showed this in, from some of our research. The first purpose of lungs is to protect you from all of the crap we breathe in, and then make sure only the oxygen gets into your bloodstream. So that, that process is, is a remarkable-

    2. AMAmrut21:14

       Mm.

    3. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula21:14

       -design in itself.

    4. AMAmrut21:15

       Um, it's very interesting that you're talking, um... You started with fluid mechanics, and then sort of like the same principles are applicable elsewhere. I guess, um-

    5. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula21:23

       Yeah.

    6. AMAmrut21:24

       I mean, as you were saying, I'm thinking a lot of engineering works like that. Because if you're at a intersection of a few things, you can take some stuff, learnings from here, apply it somewhere else, and so on. And that's how, um... I'm just trying to think of other examples, but nothing's coming to my mind now.

    7. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula21:39

       There's lots of other examples you can sort of try and design. Um, people have applied the equations of fluid dynamics, called the Navier-Stokes equations, to how, to understanding how traffic flows. More counterintuitively, to understand how money flows through a system. You can design a whole money flow system, starting with Navier-Stokes equations.

    8. AMAmrut22:06

       That's very interesting.

    9. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula22:07

       So the un- the underlying math is very unifying and universal, and it's a fascinating topic in itself to think of it that way.

    10. AMAmrut22:17

        So

12. 22:18 – 23:47

    Decision to Return to India

    1. AMAmrut22:18

       when we started this conversation, we were talking about the decision you took early on to move back to India. Um, and of c- you were a student here, and then you were, uh... Your MS and PhD was in US, in Purdue, right? Uh, and then you were working there, and then you decided to come back. Can you run us through this decision-making?

    2. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula22:38

       Uh, I'll say the de- the thought process started in about 2008 timeframe. I was teaching at Tennessee Tech University as an assistant professor, and we, my wife and I, and family, we had a desire to sort of relocate back to India. But the actual relocation process was less motivated by personal factors than by professional factors. We had start- we had started to see how the Indian academic ecosystem was absolutely, you know, growing exponentially, both in, uh, the quantum of money that was becoming available, in the set of people that were sort of gravitating towards this academic ecosystem, and the kinds of bold ideas that were being researched. So I had, by then, made a decision that I wanted to be part of this ecosystem. Luckily for me, IIT Madras, my alma mater, made me an offer, among... a-along with a couple of other IITs, and, uh, I chose to be here at IIT Madras. I've been here for about 15 years now.

13. 23:47 – 26:35

    Comparing Academia in India and the US

    1. AMAmrut23:47

       Is it easy being a faculty here compared to being a faculty in the US?

    2. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula23:51

       There's no, there's no easy, easy-

    3. AMAmrut23:55

       Well, now, I mean, like, tell me the pro/con analysis of being here and being there.

    4. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula24:00

       Okay. Um, the pros of being in the US academia is that you are part of a very mature ecosystem, where you name an area of expertise, niche area of expertise, and you can find half a dozen people somewhere in the US ac- academia that have spent a substantial part of their life researching only that. When I was a faculty member in Tennessee, I used to play tennis with a colleague from the humanities department, who had researched the Kurdish culture-... the Kurds in northern Turkey all his life. So until the Iraq war broke out, he was just one no-name professor researching some obscure culture.

    5. AMAmrut24:47

       Mm.

    6. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula24:47

       But the day the Iraq war broke out, he was there to help the government, to help all of the governmental agencies understand that part of the world.

    7. AMAmrut24:55

       Mm. So, so there's a lot of depth-

    8. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula24:59

       There is depth.

    9. AMAmrut24:59

       And, and across.

    10. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula25:01

        For sure. So because it's a, it's the world's largest academic ecosystem by far.

    11. AMAmrut25:06

        Oh.

    12. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula25:07

        The cons of the US academic system is also the fact that it is mature-

    13. AMAmrut25:13

        Mm

    14. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula25:13

        ... and that it's more difficult to re-engineer yourself frequently. This idea of applying ideas from one domain to sort of meander into another domain is not easy at all. And in the 15 years that I've lived and worked in India as an IIT Madras faculty member, um, the rewards of sort of dabbling and going deep in multiple areas have been absolutely fascinating and-

    15. AMAmrut25:46

        You're saying counterintuitively, maybe you get a little more freedom here to sort of expand your horizon than there?

    16. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula25:53

        I will say academically, if you are the kind that likes sort of trying out new things, there is no better place probably in the whole world than India today. The quantum of money that's available to invest in new ideas is at the world-class level. The set of people who will raise their hand and say, "Give me that money, I'll do something with it," is much smaller than any other mature ecosystem.

    17. AMAmrut26:24

        Okay, okay, so the, the, the, the deep tech demand and the supply of capital to try new deep tech things is higher. The number of faculty-

    18. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula26:32

        There is a mismatch still

    19. AMAmrut26:33

        ... is lesser. Interesting.

14. 26:35 – 32:02

    Respect and Rewards for Indian Professors

    1. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula26:35

       And, uh, alongside that, the biggest pro for the Indian academia, and this is probably a bit historical, is the pedestal on which an IIT professor is placed in India today.

    2. AMAmrut26:50

       Mm.

    3. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula26:50

       It's just, it's so humbling that every time I walk into, you know, someone's office, the respect that an IIT professor gets-

    4. AMAmrut27:01

       Mm

    5. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula27:02

       ... is so humbling.

    6. AMAmrut27:04

       Mm.

    7. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula27:04

       And, uh, the number of doors that that card opens for the individual is so enabling.

    8. AMAmrut27:12

       Mm.

    9. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula27:13

       Uh, I'll tell you, no US faculty member... I've been both, so I can say this looking straight into the camera, no US faculty member gets the kind of respect in their ecosystem that an Indian faculty member gets within India.

    10. AMAmrut27:27

        Professor, one, one last question on this topic. Uh, what about salaries? Because in India, and my dad has been a, was a professor, now retired, of course. Salaries have never been so attractive for teachers in India. Have they improved over time?

    11. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula27:41

        Uh, in the last, I'll say at least 40 plus 50 years, our salaries have grown. Faculty salaries have, at IITs and across many, many institutions in India, have grown 13%, 12 to 13% compounded. Now-

    12. AMAmrut28:01

        Okay

    13. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula28:01

        ... one can argue, you can take this fact, this is a-

    14. AMAmrut28:06

        Mm

    15. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula28:06

        ... piece of data. You can talk of it in two different-- you can reach two different conclusions. You can say-

    16. AMAmrut28:12

        Low base

    17. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula28:12

        ... that shows you how bad the base was-

    18. AMAmrut28:13

        How it was, low base

    19. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula28:14

        ... 50, 60 years ago. Well, if you go back and see, um, the standard of life back then-

    20. AMAmrut28:22

        Yeah

    21. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula28:22

        ... they were not bad. It was not bad at all. So the sense of respect that I was talking about just a minute ago, was prevalent even back then, if not even more. I will suggest this: there is an old report that came out in the early '50s, uh, by written or co-authored by a committee led by a man named Nalini Ranjan Sarkar. The Sarkar Committee report is what led to the creation of the IIIs. In the appendix there, he talks of the pay that these professors should be pegged at-

    22. AMAmrut28:58

        Mm

    23. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula28:58

        ... and the government practically took his suggestion on what it should be. And you compare tho- that salary back then to the peer salaries in the industry back then, and you do the same thing today, certainly industry salaries have outpaced faculty salaries, and this is a global phenomena-

    24. AMAmrut29:15

        Yeah

    25. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula29:15

        ... not just in India.

    26. AMAmrut29:16

        Sure. In US also, it's the same.

    27. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula29:17

        But apples for apples, if you compare, you know, what an IIT faculty draws today, uh, versus an academician anywhere else in the world, um, only about 15 countries in the world-

    28. AMAmrut29:32

        Mm

    29. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula29:33

        ... or less pay more than IIT, IIT professors get paid, uh, rupee for rupee, without converting for purchase power parity.

    30. AMAmrut29:45

        Mm. So it'll be much better if you compare on purchasing power. And there's pension and, uh, and insurance, and sometimes there's, uh, stay- you get to stay on campus and stuff like that also.
15. 32:02 – 33:02

    The Best Place to Build a Faculty Career

    1. AMAmrut32:02

       Can I ask you then, uh, IIT Madras, is it the best place to build a faculty career?

    2. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula32:07

       Hundred percent. I can... I, I'll say IITs broadly in India, but I'll talk to IIT Madras, because that's the case I have had the firsthand, I have had firsthand experience of working in and also having observed from the outside. Um, our faculty here are encouraged in every way possible to lead a multidimensional life. In fact, uh, in 2011, Professor Bhaskar Ramamurti, the then director, laid out in a large group faculty meeting his vision for what a faculty member should look like, and he had- sh- he showed a, a spiderweb graph with seven axes. Mm. You know, you have teaching, you have research, you have industry engagement, government engagement, societal engagement, entrepreneurship through startups, and advisory.

16. 33:02 – 34:21

    Choosing Your Axis of Excellence

    1. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula33:02

       And y- you can choose to be good at any one of, one or more of these seven axes, and this is the place to be for you. You can say, "I'm going to be excellent at solving industry problems, but on all other, all of the other six axes, I will show my interest. I may not choose to invest a lot of my time and resources in that direction." But we have faculty here who have made a phenomenal impact on industry problems. We have faculty here who say, "Pursuing blue sky ideas that are so far out today that, you know, you can't imagine, you know, what would happen if they succeeded," we have faculty here pursuing those ideas.

    2. AMAmrut33:50

       Mm.

    3. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula33:50

       We have faculty here who've made their pursuit, uh, be focused around creating new startups, which is translating ideas to be of societal benefit. We have faculty here who, apart from doing some or all of these, are excellent teachers. So you can choose your axis of excellence, and every one of them has their own reward structure at IIT Madras that is the best in business.

17. 34:21 – 35:49

    Patents and Startups at IIT Madras

    1. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula34:21

       I'll give you just one example to sort of wrap this idea up for you. Uh, we have a very active patent office that files, by far, the most number of patents of any institution in India.

    2. AMAmrut34:35

       Yeah, professor-

    3. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula34:35

       Okay

    4. AMAmrut34:35

       ... says one a day.

    5. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula34:37

       We have far exceeded that. That's just the starting number. The value created out of them largely flows back to the inventors.

    6. AMAmrut34:48

       Okay.

    7. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula34:48

       More than 72%, is the number, 72% of the upside that an invention garners for IIT Madras is plowed back into the inventor's pockets.

    8. AMAmrut35:03

       Right.

    9. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula35:04

       This, this is an extremely aggressive stance that IIT Madras has taken.

    10. AMAmrut35:09

        Mm.

    11. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula35:09

        No other IIT, to the best of my knowledge-

    12. AMAmrut35:12

        So far

    13. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula35:13

        ... has followed suit-

    14. AMAmrut35:15

        Mm

    15. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula35:16

        ... and taken this aggressive a posture-

    16. AMAmrut35:18

        Right

    17. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula35:18

        ... in rewarding their inventors back again.

    18. AMAmrut35:23

        It's very interesting.

    19. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula35:24

        And same is the case with startups, same is the case with industrial consultancy. Our industrial consultancy policy is among the most faculty-friendly in the whole world. We have, by far, perfected that art, I'll say. The policy is one of the best in the world, and we are by far among the most active industry-facing institution in the country today.

    20. AMAmrut35:47

        Let's,

18. 35:49 – 36:07

    Historical Perspective: IIT Madras in the Late 80s and Early 90s

    1. AMAmrut35:49

       let's go back to the beginning. You were a student here, I think, uh, '88 to '92. Did I get that right?

    2. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula35:55

       Yes.

    3. AMAmrut35:55

       Um, how was the campus back then? Like, these things you're talking about, I'm guessing that at the time, professors had maybe two axes, like teaching and research, maybe. That's it, right?

    4. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula36:05

       And industrial consultancy.

19. 36:07 – 37:24

    The DNA of Industry Consultancy

    1. AMAmrut36:07

       Okay.

    2. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula36:07

       So that industry consulting ac- axis goes back to, uh, the very DNA of IIT Madras, in the fact that Germans mentored this institution, and German institutions are known to be very industry-attached.

    3. AMAmrut36:22

       Okay.

    4. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula36:23

       Uh, so that DNA was sort of in, was bred into this system even as early as 1959. As you know, IIT Madras was founded in 1959, and in 1960, if I'm not mistaken, our Industrial Consultancy and Sponsored Research office was created. So even in 1960, faculty here were expected to be working a part of their time on solving industry problems. Um-... So yes, so life in the, in the late 80s and early 90s, uh, at IIT Madras was-- I'll say there were broadly some things that have remained the same, uh, as I experience them today, and some things have obviously changed and moved on. We were a much smaller-- We had a much smaller headcount of both students and faculty. Uh, we were very... The students were all very close to each other. Uh, I see that missing in today's students, uh, because we have such large numbers here.

20. 37:24 – 38:08

    Pursuing Excellence Over the Years

    1. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula37:24

       But, uh, the idea of pursuing excellence as defined by oneself is a trait that has remained with us for the sixty-plus years that this institution has existed. Uh, faculty and students pursue what they think is excellence.

    2. AMAmrut37:44

       Right.

    3. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula37:44

       And, um, giving each of them the freedom to do what they think is excellence, and giving each of them the pathway, enabled pathway, to go in their chosen direction, is something that IIT Madras has done very, very well in comparison to many, many other Indian institutions, I will say.

21. 38:08 – 38:46

    Hostel Life and Nicknames

    1. AMAmrut38:08

       Very interesting. Professor, I have to complete this conversation by asking you which hostel you were from, [chuckles] and what was your nickname back in insti?

    2. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula38:16

       Two fifty-two, room number, Ganga hostel. And, uh, my name today, at least the official name, is Mahesh V. Panchagnula. You know, back in the school days, my name, you know, as is the case with most Telugu people, was P. V. Mahesh. My initials were P.V., and so my, my nickname was P.V. Most of my friends, even today, address me as P.V. And, um, so that's it.

    3. AMAmrut38:45

       Nice, nice, nice,

22. 38:46 – 39:51

    The Trend of Going Abroad

    1. AMAmrut38:46

       nice. Um, uh, y- you went abroad after insti at '92. I think that was the norm, right? In, in the '90s, everybody went abroad.

    2. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula38:55

       Correct.

    3. AMAmrut38:56

       Uh, did your entire class go abroad?

    4. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula38:59

       A very small fraction stayed back. I'll say eighty-plus percent went abroad.

    5. AMAmrut39:04

       But it's totally changed now. Like, that doesn't happen now, I guess, uh-

    6. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula39:08

       It's, uh, you know, it's, um, it's the nature of how countries develop. Back when, um, you know, I was getting ready to make my choice, uh, I had an offer, a fully funded master's program study offer from Purdue University. I also had an industry job with a leading MNC in India at that time, as a project trainee for 8,000 rupees a month, and a thousand two hundred dollars a month stipend on a s- master's study program. It was not just about the money, but the opportunities that each of these would later on open up-

    7. AMAmrut39:47

       Yeah

    8. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula39:47

       ... were vastly different back then.

23. 39:51 – 40:31

    India's Growing Opportunities

    1. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula39:51

       Today, a student, you know, can have a master's option to study at one of the world's best universities, and the same person would have a, an excellent job offer somewhere in India to do their... to pursue their trade or to pursue their, uh, pursue a professional, uh, you know, a career right here in India. And, uh, they would be more comparable than in the-

    2. AMAmrut40:16

       In some fields, I think India is better now.

    3. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula40:19

       For sure. Uh, we are among the world's best in, in many different fields, but-

    4. AMAmrut40:24

       And, and also, I think that students have the opportunity to start up or join a startup, and there's an entrepreneurship, especially a deep tech entrepreneurship, say,

24. 40:31 – 41:37

    The Rise of Entrepreneurship

    1. AMAmrut40:31

       engineering entrepreneurship, um, avenue opening up for students.

    2. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula40:35

       That is-- That has, that has been a dimension of the last ten years, or maybe seven, eight years, that has completely changed the landscape for what students can do. It's a f- it's far more, I'll say, even fashionable to take a, a break from a career-driven thinking for two, three years and try a risky idea. Should that succeed, you know, you have your own launchpad into a, a world that you couldn't have gotten into without that launchpad.

    3. AMAmrut41:04

       Yeah.

    4. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula41:05

       If it didn't succeed, it was-- it is now extremely fashionable on one's CV to say, "I tried this startup, but failed."

    5. AMAmrut41:13

       Yeah.

    6. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula41:13

       That actually gives the person a leg up.

    7. AMAmrut41:15

       Yeah.

    8. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula41:16

       So I think our biggest victory of... India's biggest victory of the last seven or eight years has been this, uh, treating of failure as a, as a credential, as a medal on your chest.

    9. AMAmrut41:29

       Yeah.

    10. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula41:30

        Wear that failure proudly, and go forth and interview for a job.

    11. AMAmrut41:35

        Yeah.

25. 41:37 – 49:37

    Incubation Cell at IIT Madras

    1. AMAmrut41:37

       Um, and you were involved in the IIT Madras Incubation Cell. You were heading the cell for a while. So this is a structural thing that's also, like, been promoted by IIT Madras very actively in the last, uh, maybe ten, fifteen years or so. Um, could you run us through how the Incubation Cell works broadly, and, uh, what are some of the success stories that have happened?

    2. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula41:58

       The Incubation Cell is an enabler entity. It's there to enable faculty and students, largely, as well as outsiders, to come in, take advantage of this IIT ecosystem. This, you know, IIT Madras is one large deep tech research and development ecosystem. The Incubation Cell helps people take advantage of this deep tech ecosystem to create value through startups. So let's say I'm a faculty member. Let's say a student and I have an idea to move forward in a particular-- to create a particular kind of a startup. I can go to the Incubation Cell and, uh, create a startup. They'll help me create the startup. They'll take a very tiny equity position, usually between 2 to 5%, or maybe 6%, and, uh, in return, you get a whole range of services on the tap-... that you could avail of, and, um, you know, just focus on doing your work, doing your development work, and really, uh, you know, creating value for the employees and your customers and stakeholders.

    3. AMAmrut43:06

       Do I have to be a IITM student to apply to the incubation cell?

    4. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula43:10

       Not necessarily. Rank outsiders do apply, but the question that the incubation cell usually asks of them is, "Why do you want to be in IIT Madras's incubator and not somewhere else?"

    5. AMAmrut43:22

       Sure.

    6. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula43:23

       So make that value that you want to derive out of this ecosystem clear.

    7. AMAmrut43:29

       Mm-hmm. And so I think some of the most, uh, popular incubatees are also, like Agnikul, um, Uniphore. I think both of those companies are not IIT Madras founders.

    8. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula43:40

       Correct. Agnikul at least had a faculty mentor-

    9. AMAmrut43:43

       Yeah, IIT

    10. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula43:43

        ... from IIT Madras, but Uniphore was not. There's several companies like that. The DocSAPS was, uh-

    11. AMAmrut43:50

        DocSAPS, Aethir, HyperVerge, these are IITM founders.

    12. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula43:54

        Alumni.

    13. AMAmrut43:55

        Yeah.

    14. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula43:55

        IITM alumni who went on to come back and incubate-

    15. AMAmrut43:58

        Oh, right

    16. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula43:58

        ... their companies. HyperVerge, for example, could have chosen to incubate their company wherever else they- wherever they wanted to go, but they chose the IIT Madras incubator after graduating out, not just simply as alumni, but because this was a good, uh, enabler for them, enabler platform for them.

    17. AMAmrut44:18

        Hmm. Is it-- Do you think IIT Madras is ahead of other universities in India or in the region, as far as incubation is concerned?

    18. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula44:27

        For sure, we are prob- we have probably created the most value.

    19. AMAmrut44:31

        Mm.

    20. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula44:31

        So I look at it as one of two ways. The IIT Madras incubated startups are startups that are largely, uh, faculty and students, plus some alumni and outsiders, but are stationed here to take advantage of this ecosystem. So one could argue that IIT Madras had a small but active role-

    21. AMAmrut44:51

        Mm

    22. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula44:51

        ... in enabling these enterprises. And then there is a large group of startups that our alumni have gone on and created value somewhere in the whole world.

    23. AMAmrut45:00

        Yeah.

    24. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula45:00

        You know, you talk of Perplexity, you talk of Infosys, with Kris being involved, right? All of these are enterprises that have happened in the outside world, where IIT Madras has only been involved as one of their alumni co-founders, or one of their alumni being co-founders.

    25. AMAmrut45:16

        Mm.

    26. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula45:17

        The former kind, where IIT Madras incubator and the IIT Madras Deep Tech ecosystem had an active role, uh, it's probably has the most impressive report cards of all of, uh, IIT x incubators, and largely academic incubators.

    27. AMAmrut45:36

        That's very interesting. Uh, of course, IIT Madras alumnus from the beginning of IIT Madras, 1959, uh, haven't really waited for the incubation cell to come up to start their companies. They've always done it. I think the number you told me earlier was 2,000-plus companies at least have an IITM, uh, alumnus as founder.

    28. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula45:53

        That's right.

    29. AMAmrut45:53

        Um, and, uh, some of them are Infosys, Perplexity, uh, the ones you mentioned, uh, Swiggy and, uh, Sugar, and EaseMyTrip, the list goes on. Um, and, uh, and what you're saying is that, uh, so- of course, some of them choose to incubate at IIT Madras for various reasons. Um, could be because they are close to IIT, could be because they're hiring from here, could be because they have a faculty, a access to resources, uh, mentors, and so on. Nice. Uh, and maybe, maybe also just because we started a little earlier and because the ecosystem already existed, we are a little ahead of the other IITs.

    30. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula46:29

        It's not just that. The early start gave us an, I'll say, an unfair advantage.
26. 49:37 – 53:59

    Alumni Contributions and Fundraising

    1. AMAmrut49:37

       that's amazing. So, Professor, we were talking about alumni contribution and how a lot of alumnus have, over the years, been entrepreneurs, and, uh, I know that you were the dean of the alumni office or the alumni and corporate relations office. Um, uh, from what I understand, the ACR office works with alumnus, but also is involved in a lot of fundraising. Uh, I understand that IIT Madras last year raised more than 500 crores. Um, I think it's the highest among all IITs. Uh, please correct me if I'm wrong, uh-

    2. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula50:09

       As on that date, if I'm not mistaken, but, uh, the 500 number needs to be understood completely. About 280, 290 crores came from a large number of donors and corporate partners. The remaining 200-plus odd crores came from one donor, who was the single largest gift to IIT Madras, as on that date. It was a stock gift in kind, so it was tentatively valued at about that amount. Now, these stock gifts have a way of-

    3. AMAmrut50:37

       Going up and down

    4. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula50:39

       ... going up and down, so one cannot... One has to understand that 500 crore number in context, but the 290 crores was, in itself, among the largest ever by any IIT. Uh, not including this large gift, uh, the amount of money that corporate partners, hundreds of companies, have gifted through their CSR programs to work with IIT Madras is, again, one of the most active in all of the, all of India.

    5. AMAmrut51:05

       These are gifts and not, uh, not like contracts?

    6. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula51:08

       No, the contracts part this year, I'm told, will reach a number greater than 700 crores. This is vested interest-driven work between a company and IIT Madras.

    7. AMAmrut51:19

       This is a consultancy?

    8. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula51:21

       Those are consultancy, research, and development. You could... They come in multiple flavors: technology, co-development. All of this is about 700 crores of work with private industry.

    9. AMAmrut51:31

       Right.

    10. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula51:32

        And I, I call it vested interest-driven development-

    11. AMAmrut51:35

        Right

    12. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula51:35

        ... idea work. What we are talking about earlier through the alumni and corporate relations office was mostly philanthropy for the greater good of society.

    13. AMAmrut51:44

        Can I ask you, Professor, the curious mind wants to know, uh, what is the reason why IIT raises so much money, and how does that get used?

    14. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula51:53

        The reason IIT Madras raises this kind of money is because we were, again, an, a forerunner to create, uh, a professionally run, active office of alumni and corporate relations with a dedicated sales and marketing team to go at fundraising as a pro- as a process and as a profession. And, uh, the money that comes in serves various causes. The easiest to understand could be to say every deserving student at IIT Madras, deserving financially, for s- for whatever financial distress their families may be in, has received an alumni or a corporate partner-funded scholarship.

    15. AMAmrut52:39

        Hmm.

    16. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula52:40

        Every student below a parental income of five lakhs today pays no fee at IIT Madras.

    17. AMAmrut52:49

        Sure.

    18. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula52:50

        And we've created multiple programs. There's a program we called, uh, the Vidya Lakshmi Scholarship Program that w- that I helped ideate and create, which today supports upwards of, you know, 500 students, not just at IIT Madras. Vidya Lakshmi is now funding students at all IITs. We are an enabler to make sure some student sitting in Dharwad gets the benefit of a corporate partner wanting to support IIT students in their education pursuit. Coming back to IIT Madras again, a lot of this money helps create centers of excellence. We have a Center of Excellence in Wind Energy, in Logistics, in Tech Excellence that were funded by FedEx, Walmart, an individual, Venkatrangan. We have, we have lots of donors who have created these centers of excellence, who have helped ideate and create these centers of excellence in spheres of activity of large societal and national relevance. Uh, they run training programs. They do research. They do technology development, translation through startups. Very multidimensional in their offering for the society at large.

27. 53:59 – 56:20

    ASK IITM Initiative

    1. AMAmrut53:59

       Professor, during your stint at ACR office, I know we were talking about fundraising, but also, we got to work together on an interesting project, the Ask IITM project, which started, uh, under your aegis. And, uh, I remember our first few conversations very well, where we were trying to figure out what to do to improve student experience at Josa. How did that from... I mean, I know it from my side. From the admin side, how did that really start?

    2. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula54:21

       It started with, uh, the chairman of our board, uh, Dr Pawan Goenka, repeatedly asking this question: "If you are NIRF number one-

    3. AMAmrut54:31

       Mm-hmm.

    4. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula54:32

       ... why isn't [chuckles] that driving other choices from students? Why is- why are other institutions being preferred in certain-

    5. AMAmrut54:41

       Mm

    6. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula54:41

       ... in certain choice measures over IIT Madras?" And so that led us to, you know, sort of think of different things to do, and Ask IITM, which was an initiative, as you know, that was an alumni-run, alumni-... yeah, funded and alumni sort of, uh, managed initiative. And as you yourself, w- as an alumnus, have taken that bull by the horns and-

    7. AMAmrut55:09

       Yeah

    8. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula55:09

       - really tamed it, and you've done a fantastic job, I'll say, of moving the needle on a very, very difficult, um, very difficult project.

    9. AMAmrut55:19

       I think when, when we were talking about it first, we were talking about this idea that, uh, from us, from an outsider's perspective ... From an insider's perspective, of course, you're on campus and, or you know someone at IIT, you know a lot about what's happening. From an outsider's perspective, you don't really know what's happening at IIT. You know it's a great place, whatever. Um, maybe don't have the details, don't have the avenue to ask someone, and earlier there used to be physical counseling and stuff like that, so I think, uh, that was a big lack, you know, right?

    10. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula55:47

        I think the lack of physical counseling sort of has been felt for a long time. And, uh, ASK IITM steps in to fill that gap in some nice way, in a, in as ... In a small way. It's not really- cannot replace physical counseling. Uh, you know, doing physical counseling with 50,000 JEE-

    11. AMAmrut56:07

        Yeah

    12. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula56:07

        ... advanced qualified students is simply not a-

    13. AMAmrut56:10

        Yeah.

    14. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula56:11

        It's, it's very difficult as a proposition.

    15. AMAmrut56:13

        Yeah, it's a scale issue.

    16. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula56:14

        It's a scale issue. So I'll say, ASK IITM was the next best thing we could do-

    17. AMAmrut56:18

        Yeah

    18. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula56:19

        ... to that.

28. 56:20 – 1:01:17

    Informing Parents and Students

    1. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula56:20

       And, uh, the purpose of ASK IITM was to not just inform, as you said, inform people of what's happening here, but to really be a validated go-to resource for, uh, for students to understand the dimensions, the measures that can be factored in to help them make choices. So it's not just telling them, "Here is a program, and these are the good things about this program," vis-a-vis as I said. It is to tell- give them the metadata that they can sort of ... It gives them a framework to think about their own decisions, and I think that was the biggest, uh, delivery, biggest-

    2. AMAmrut57:01

       Yeah

    3. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula57:01

       ... success-

    4. AMAmrut57:02

       Yeah

    5. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula57:03

       ... of, ASK IITM.

    6. AMAmrut57:04

       A- and we have traveled together, uh, to Hyderabad, and we've had, uh, events in Chennai together also, where we have interacted with parents and students. And, and the kind of questions they ask sometimes, uh, i- it's quite clear that they are keen to absorb more if we tell them, and they're keen to listen in. And so I've seen that you've, uh, sort of been very patient answering parent questions and students. And is this something that you really care about, like how choices are being made by parents and students?

    7. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula57:32

       I think, um, you know, what you bring is a very ... For a long time, I've felt the need to create systems and to be a vehicle for others to make informed decisions. This idea of me being and me creating vehicles for others to be able to make informed decisions has been sort of driving me for some time now. And, uh, I think in some time to come, we'll see the manifestation of some of those vehicles.

    8. AMAmrut58:09

       Sure.

    9. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula58:10

       Today's electronic media, opportunities are galore. Opportunities galore, and in the manner in which these vehicles can be designed, uh, you don't need to travel physically to thousands of colleges to make this happen.

    10. AMAmrut58:25

        Yeah.

    11. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula58:26

        Um-

    12. AMAmrut58:27

        Yeah

    13. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula58:27

        ... I'm still sort of, there's some ideas that are bouncing between the years-

    14. AMAmrut58:31

        Okay

    15. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula58:31

        ... that I'm expecting will, will be out in the open in the n- in a short period of time.

    16. AMAmrut58:37

        Okay. Yeah, fair enough. As you were saying it, I'm thinking that the idea that parents and students, um, making choices during their college admission period is not limited only to IITs, it's across the board.

    17. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula58:51

        And also, it's even more going ... I mean, of course, that is exactly as you said, Amrut. Under- giving them a, giving them all the information in a digested fashion-

    18. AMAmrut59:04

        Mm, mm

    19. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula59:05

        ... digestible fashion, at least-

    20. AMAmrut59:08

        Mm

    21. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula59:09

        ... is a very important, um, um, I think it's a very important function that has not been served in India. Uh, you know, I get the-

    22. AMAmrut59:20

        I- in fact, I would say it's mis-served, because there are a lot of YouTube videos and lot of things which are very half-baked, and, uh, they, they choose to mislead more than they choose to lead.

    23. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula59:29

        Well, uh, yes, and that's one of the downsides of the internet-enabled era largely-

    24. AMAmrut59:36

        Yeah

    25. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula59:37

        ... that, uh, credibility, um, is a stripe that is earned.

    26. AMAmrut59:43

        I think in the absence of IIT professors talking about their courses, a lot of other people have-

    27. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula59:49

        Correct

    28. AMAmrut59:50

        ... on their behalf.

    29. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula59:50

        Correct.

    30. AMAmrut59:51

        And it's okay. Sometimes it's right, sometimes it's off the mark.
29. 1:01:17 – 1:04:57

    Future Directions and New Programs

    1. AMAmrut1:01:17

       And, and just to illustrate this point a little bit, maybe you can take us through in your own department, which is applied mechanics and biomedical engineering, how have things changed over the last ten years and-

    2. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula1:01:27

       Well, we are, uh ... We used to be- when I joined, I was, I think, the 17th or 18th faculty member who joined the department, meaning we had about 18 of us. Today, we are about 35, 36 plus, somewhere in there. Uh, so we've almost doubled in 15 years in headcount of faculty, countering faculty who have retired along the way. So IIT Madras largely is, is, uh, is a growing institution in our faculty headcount, and our department has outpaced the institute's own growth. So that's the first part I'd see as different. So we have a large number of faculty members who are pursuing many, many different stripes-

    3. AMAmrut1:02:09

       So, uh, so as you're saying that the faculty members in- I'm guessing that what you're also implying is that the research that's being done by the faculty body has broadened.

    4. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula1:02:19

       Broadened.

    5. AMAmrut1:02:19

       Right?

    6. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula1:02:20

       And, um, also, we've-- as a result of that breadth, we are now able to ideate new teaching programs. We have a couple of very exciting master's programs that have been in the works for some ... That have been sort of offered for some time now. We are now getting ready to launch our own undergraduate programs, uh, at the cusp of where the traditional disciplines fell.

    7. AMAmrut1:02:45

       Okay.

    8. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula1:02:45

       Because-

    9. AMAmrut1:02:46

       Will it be for this year admission?

    10. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula1:02:47

        Yes, yes.

    11. AMAmrut1:02:48

        Okay.

    12. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula1:02:48

        So we'll talk about that, uh, in a separate, uh, you know, in a separate video later on. But, uh, these are a couple of very, very exciting con, uh, contemporary, highly industry-focused, highly value-driven undergrad programs that we are gonna be launching in July '25.

    13. AMAmrut1:03:10

        Programs-

    14. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula1:03:11

        Programs

    15. AMAmrut1:03:11

        ... in plural.

    16. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula1:03:12

        Correctly. [chuckles]

    17. AMAmrut1:03:13

        Yeah. Okay, that's great. So, um, just, just to summarize, what you were saying is that, um, from a parent perspective and as, as parent-student unit perspective, there's a lot to absorb. Uh, it's better to absorb it from a credible source, which has the information, which has the latest information, which is being continuously updated. And there is a sort of lack there, that maybe the content that's available to them is, um, not very reliable right now.

    18. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula1:03:40

        And not tailored for that informed decision framework. It's like, if I want to make an informed decision, it's not enough if I have rice and water. The rice and water has to be cooked into edible annam.

    19. AMAmrut1:03:56

        [chuckles] Yeah.

    20. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula1:03:57

        Right? And having that served, uh, you know, as a meal-

    21. AMAmrut1:04:01

        Yeah

    22. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula1:04:01

        ... is what I think, uh, and with, with credibility, of course.

    23. AMAmrut1:04:06

        Yeah. Nice. Professor, thank you so much. It's been a long conversation. Um, we started with, uh, best place to build faculty careers and, uh, uh, moved through, uh, the ACR office, spoke a little bit about the incubation center, uh, and we spoke a lot about A- ASK IITM. Thank you so much, Professor.

    24. MPDr. Mahesh V. Panchagnula1:04:24

        It's been my pleasure. Thank you, Amrut, for having me, and, um, I'm sure... Uh, I wish your podcast all the very best. It does- It fills a gap in a big way, and I wish it continued success.

    25. AMAmrut1:04:36

        Thank you, Professor. [outro jingle]

Episode duration: 1:04:57