Best Place To BuildThe $45M Industrial AI Revolution | Daniel Raj David, CEO of Detect Technologies on BP2B S2 Ep.2
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
55 min read · 11,421 words- 0:00 – 1:04
Introduction
- DDDaniel Raj David
Our mission as an organization is to make the industrial world a better place and a safer place through actionable artificial intelligence. In this ecosystem, we have technology, we have professors, we have industrial specialists, but our X factor is students who don't know that something can't be done. There are many levers in the ecosystem that can fuel that initiative. [upbeat music]
- AMAmrut
Hi, this is Amrut. We are at IIT Madras, my alma mater, and India's top university for people who like to build. We are here to meet some builders, ask them: What are you building? What does it take to build? And what makes IIT Madras the best place to build? [upbeat music]
- 1:04 – 1:11
Welcome to the Best Place to Build Podcast
- AMAmrut
Hello, and welcome to the Best Place to Build podcast. This is season two. We are recording at the Center for Innovation in
- 1:11 – 1:32
Introducing Daniel from Detect Technologies
- AMAmrut
IIT Madras. Today with me is Daniel from Detect Technologies. Daniel, welcome.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me, Amrut.
- AMAmrut
Detect is one of the hottest, uh, IIT Madras startups of the last decade. Um, you've raised more than $40 million, and you have operations across the world. Um, and you're a, a, like, quiet startup, not too much noise. We don't see a lot of press releases.
- 1:32 – 3:17
Understanding Detect Technologies' Mission and Operations
- AMAmrut
Um, so maybe you can start by telling us, what does Detect do, and, uh, what is your presence worldwide?
- DDDaniel Raj David
Firstly, thank you for having me. Uh, second, it's always good to, to give an introduction of, uh, Detect, right? So, um, I would say today, we- the company has gone through several evolutions in the time that we've existed, but today, our, our mission as an organization is to make sure or make the industrial world a better place and a safer place through actionable artificial intelligence, right? Actionable being the key word. We do this through a various set of technologies and means, right? But the overall summary of what we do is we built a central AI layer that can take in information, which can be visual from your cameras, time series data from sensors, as well as simple data that's, that's scribbled on notes and put into ERPs, right? And be able to process that for large industrial plants, as well as smaller fabrication yards as well, and put actionable information right in front of the frontline so that they can act on, let's say, something that is a life-saving risk that's happening at the facility. Um, and even post the required statistics to management so that you understand what's the culture of your company, how do I improve the efficiency of my company, the safety of my company, at scale, um, at an enterprise level. So we touch people both at the frontline all the way to the CXOs and the executives, um, of these organizations through very verticalized AI interventions, uh, from our end.
- AMAmrut
Okay, hold on, hold on. That was a lot. Let me take it in.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Sure.
- 3:17 – 7:07
Industrial Safety and AI Interventions
- DDDaniel Raj David
Sure.
- AMAmrut
Um, so you said industrial AI, uh, i- in, uh, in for safety and efficiency?
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yes.
- AMAmrut
So let me, let me try and understand it in my way as best I can. I started my, uh, career in a factory.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Okay.
- AMAmrut
We used to produce detergent liquid. So there are multiple plants inside a factory. There are machines there, there are workers going from here to there. We had about 500 workers.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Nice.
- AMAmrut
So in a plant like that, um, the kind of safety issues I would be thinking about is maybe, and, uh, somebody falls down and then equipment falls on them, or a worker accidentally touches a machine at where it's hot or where it's moving, and they sort of hurt them- hurt themselves at a minor level-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah
- AMAmrut
... but at a major level, maybe lose a finger or fall down, have a fracture. Uh, there were no life-threatening kind of situations in our factory. Uh, I'm sure in bigger factories, somebody could die for sure.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah.
- AMAmrut
So in a factory like this, what would Detect end up doing?
- DDDaniel Raj David
Thank you. You, you asked, uh, a, a great question. Um, so in any factory, even as small as you s- said 500 people in your factory, right? There are factories with even just 30, 40 people-
- AMAmrut
Mm
- DDDaniel Raj David
... all the way to factories that have thousands of people at their site. There are actually a set of, over time, iteratively, we as human civilization, have actually identified what are the risks and the scenarios that would lead to someone losing their finger or, worst case, fatality. Just a, a sad but interesting statistic is, in the frontline workforce today, there are close to about 6,000 people or 6,000 fatalities that happen on a daily basis.
- AMAmrut
Who publishes that statistic?
- DDDaniel Raj David
Uh, generally, uh, Gartner, McKinsey, consultants.
- AMAmrut
Okay.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Um, this is referenced, um-
- AMAmrut
6,000 fatalities in factories daily across the world?
- DDDaniel Raj David
Across the world.
- AMAmrut
Or for-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Across the world
- AMAmrut
... maybe 10 million workforce or may- maybe 100 million workforce. I don't know, what is the workforce?
- DDDaniel Raj David
The workforce would be larger than, uh, 100 mil, actually.
- AMAmrut
Okay.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Um, but effectively, there's close to about 2 million deaths a year across all industries, right? Every single industrial segment from warehousing, ports, uh, fabrication, all the way to the biggest oil gas-
- AMAmrut
Construction
- DDDaniel Raj David
... construction as well.
- AMAmrut
Mm.
- 7:07 – 9:02
Real-World Applications and Impact
- DDDaniel Raj David
Detectt plugs into, let's say, in a facility like this, I think two or three of these cameras can cover the whole facility.
- AMAmrut
It's a great point. We are sitting in a lab-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yes
- AMAmrut
... and, uh, there's welding happens sometimes here, and then, uh, they do gas cutting.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Mm.
- AMAmrut
Um, they do vacuum pump operation.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah.
- AMAmrut
All of these operations have some risk associated with it, and, uh, maybe, uh, for the general public, we have all seen construction sites.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yes.
- AMAmrut
Right? And we can see that there's a beam, and there is a girder being moved, or there's a hole that's been dug, which is six feet long, and some- something can happen.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Exactly.
- AMAmrut
Um, and obviously, industries are not so open and so risky, but still there is always a slight risk of something. So your technology is plugging into the cameras that's looking in-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yes
- AMAmrut
... and a- as per OSHA rules, recognizing, uh, those scenarios where something is risky.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah.
- AMAmrut
Is that right?
- DDDaniel Raj David
Exactly. I'll give you an example, right? Something that is also relatable. Ports. There's crane operations, cranes that take containers from ships into land, into lorries, right? The biggest risk over there in any of these ports is if the structure is not held properly-
- AMAmrut
Mm
- DDDaniel Raj David
... sometimes these containers, when there are people walking under those containers, the containers actually fall on those individuals. Big risk-
- AMAmrut
Mm
- DDDaniel Raj David
... right? Um, and the biggest contributor of deaths in that sector. So in those cases, not only does Detectt build the AI to detect whether people are under those loads-
- AMAmrut
Mm
- DDDaniel Raj David
... but also integrate back to the machinery to tell the machinery it's detecting a person under that load, the machine needs to stop, right, for safe operation, and alarm needs to go so that the person goes back into safety. So it's not just detection, but also intervention into the real world, um, right, that, that Detectt does. And, uh, we've saved... or at least the technology with the information put at the right time, has, uh, saved multiple, or prevented multiple incidents as well as fatalities across the world. Uh-
- AMAmrut
That's
- 9:02 – 17:18
Origins and Development of Detect Technologies
- AMAmrut
amazing. Um, I'm so curious about how you got into this business. But before that, just to complete this, uh, your technology plugs into AI. You said camera feeds, but you also said some other feeds.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Sensors.
- AMAmrut
Uh, so these are sensors like?
- DDDaniel Raj David
I'll give you a few examples. So, uh, large complex industries like oil and gas have a multitube- multitude of data sources giving lots of information. Um, the last couple of decades, the industry has spent on investing in infrastructure, right? Um, so it can be things like gas sensors, it can be pressure sensors to detect pressure changes within the process fluids that are being sent across the facility. Um, and also, there are also ultrasonic sensors. So there are multiple use cases in each of them. I'll give you one example of a technology that was invented here in IIT Madras, right? So it's a technology called GUMPS, where effectively we have the patent for the first sensor in the world that could generate [ sonoquisition sounds] signals across a pipe at high temperatures. Why is that important, right? Just to give you an example, have you done an ultrasound before? I'm sure you have. We needed to do it before-
- AMAmrut
Oh, I...
- DDDaniel Raj David
-getting into everything.
- AMAmrut
I'm a, a... Do you know what's stone maker?
- DDDaniel Raj David
No.
- AMAmrut
Uh, a, a stone maker is a word used by urologists to people who make a lot of kidney stones.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Kidney stones. Oh, okay.
- AMAmrut
Yeah.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Wow.
- AMAmrut
I'm a stone maker. [chuckles]
- DDDaniel Raj David
[chuckles] Wow.
- AMAmrut
Multiple ultrasounds for kidney stones.
- DDDaniel Raj David
You should hydrate then, in that case. [chuckles]
- AMAmrut
[chuckles]
- DDDaniel Raj David
Um, no, but, uh, so basically, ultrasound, he would apply the gel on you to do that-
- AMAmrut
Yeah
- DDDaniel Raj David
... ultrasound. That's because for the signal to flow, um, there should be no mismatch of what's called impedance, right? For the signal to flow from the sensor into your body. That's called gel coupled. The problem is, the moment you have a system that's at a higher temperature, let's say above hundred degrees Celsius, those gels are not stable anymore, right? So effectively, we have a, a patent for a technology that is air-coupled, um, and uses a different piece of technology called magnetostriction. Without getting too much into the technicalities, you can just put the sensor around the pipe, and through the air, just generate signals. Why is this advantageous? It works at high temperatures. Today, most of your hazardous gases, liquids, like crude oil, naphtha, and the like, in very complex industries, work at temperatures above two hundred degrees Celsius, right? So we actually have a sensor that can generate these signals, and you need a sophisticated AI system to be able to tell you what those signals mean, because all you see are sinusoidal waves, right?
- AMAmrut
Mm.
- DDDaniel Raj David
So it'll analyze and tell you, "Okay, from these signals, there are defects occurring in certain pieces of the pipe. In about six months of time, pipe failure is going to happen, so you need to plan a maintenance activity," right? And this can be done across not just pipes. Using thermal data, you can also track if there are gas leakages, if there is corrosion happening in high-temperature systems. So there's a multitude of data sources where you can pull useful information from to predict both efficiency issues, as well as safety and-... shutdown of s- facility-related issues.
- AMAmrut
Sure. So it's, uh, preventive maintenance-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yes.
- AMAmrut
- preventive care.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yes, precisely.
- AMAmrut
I have a question here. So I can understand this part, but just dialing back to the vision part, um, it's an AI system, so it requires a lot of training data.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yes.
- AMAmrut
How do you get training data for hazards? Because obviously, this is something you want to avoid, right? So.
- DDDaniel Raj David
That's actually a great question, which, which bleeds into what is really the moat of Detect? Like, why Detect, and, uh, why, why hasn't someone else done this? The most important thing is the amount of data that you train the system on. Synthetic data didn't exist as a concept back then when we started, I would say, 2015, 2016, but even now, it's always better to train a system on real data as opposed to synthetic data-
- 17:18 – 26:25
Student Life and Early Exposure to Industrial Challenges
- AMAmrut
You started your journey as a student here.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yes.
- AMAmrut
Uh, which years were you here? What, what course were you doing?
- DDDaniel Raj David
So I'm a mechanical engineer. I did the dual degree mechanical engineering program with the master's in intelligent manufacturing.
- AMAmrut
Oh, that was my course, too.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Really?
- AMAmrut
Yeah.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Oh, wow! Okay. I, I actually didn't know that. Uh, no, fantastic. Uh, so IM was, was our specialization. I came in 2012.
- AMAmrut
Okay.
- DDDaniel Raj David
So I was here from 2012 to 2017. Um, that was my, my overall course.
- AMAmrut
You know who else was in IM? Divanshu from InvVolve, uh, and, uh-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Really?
- AMAmrut
... so he's nice. Yeah.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Oh, okay. Divanshu was in IM?
- AMAmrut
Yeah.
- DDDaniel Raj David
I, I didn't know that as well, and I mentored the guy through the, through the [chuckles] startup journey at least.
- AMAmrut
So you were a student, and the work that you do is very industrial. How is it that you came to this? I'm also curious, what did you do as a student to be exposed to something like... Did you work anywhere else in the middle?
- DDDaniel Raj David
Uh, no, I didn't.
- AMAmrut
So this is-
- DDDaniel Raj David
This is my first gig.
- AMAmrut
... Okay. [laughing] So you were a student, I think, 2011, right?
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah.
- AMAmrut
And, uh, so how-
- DDDaniel Raj David
'12.
- AMAmrut
2012. So how did you enter this field? What did you do as a student to be exposed to this?
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah, this is... I'll take you through. I don't know how much time you've got, but- [laughing]
- AMAmrut
Lots.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Lots? Okay. So I'll take you through the, the story, right? I, uh, since my first time there, uh, my dream... So my father's from IIT Madras.
- AMAmrut
Okay.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Uh, so he went to Mandakini hostel. Very smart man. Uh, brought me to campus, and, uh, he knew I loved animals, and he's like, "Dari, there, there's monkeys here, there's deer," and whatever that other thing is-
- 26:25 – 28:33
Incorporating the Company and Future Prospects
- AMAmrut
incorporated?
- DDDaniel Raj David
2016, my pre-final year.
- AMAmrut
Okay.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Uh, we incorporated also because of a need. There were multiple, um, inflection points. A lot of folks that were working, we had, at one point, like 45, 50 people within campus working on this piece of technology. We were not funded. Um, we had-- we got some, uh, funding into IIT Madras, uh, from, let's say, Reliance, to work on pieces of technology. But by then, 2016, we were working on sensor-based technology. We were like a innovation lab, drone-based technology, drone as an acquisition device, and then analytics on visual and thermal data on that piece of technology. So there were, like, at least 15 different types of projects we were working on.
- AMAmrut
Interesting.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Um, and we had great talent, like people that formed the computer vision group over here, formed the AI group over here in, in IIT and CIFI, and, and multiple groups. So we didn't want the talent to, to, to leave. So 2016, we were like: "Okay, now it's make or break. People are graduating," um, right? And we all have, uh... Tarun was four, five years experienced at that time in the industry. He had to make calls as well, and we also had to make calls. Are we gonna sit for placements or not? 2016 was that fulcrum point where we said, "No, there's something here." What we didn't know is it's a $90 billion target market for us.
- AMAmrut
Mm.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Uh, we did the math three years later, but in 2016, we knew it was a big market, right? Um, and we had advisors from the IITM ecosystem at that time telling us: "How do you build a company?" Right? The, the basics, the 101s.
- AMAmrut
Mm.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Um, and we had inspiring leaders, uh, prior to us, Tarun Mehta, who recently did the IPO.
- AMAmrut
Mm.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Uh, we had Kedar from HyperVerge. There were a few stories, um, and we wanted to-
- AMAmrut
Kedar just raised a million.
- DDDaniel Raj David
He had just raised a mil at that time. Yeah, you're right. Absolutely.
- AMAmrut
So we said- [chuckles]
- DDDaniel Raj David
I also want to po- point out that in IIT Madras ecosystem, if you have a name like Tarun, [chuckles] then you are statistically higher likely to start up. [laughing] Start up.
- AMAmrut
I agree.
- DDDaniel Raj David
And very all the Taruns. [laughing]
- AMAmrut
Yeah, I agree.
- DDDaniel Raj David
If you are called Tarun, you should consider joining here. [laughing]
- AMAmrut
Yeah.
- DDDaniel Raj David
So, um, 2016, we realized, so 2017, we needed to raise
- 28:33 – 28:42
The Fundraising Journey Begins
- DDDaniel Raj David
funds. Um, and that's when the fundraising journey started-
- AMAmrut
Okay
- DDDaniel Raj David
... um, at which point I would say Hari and me were still students at that time, but, uh, Karthik and Tarun had both graduated, uh,
- 28:42 – 31:45
Early Days and Initial Pivots
- DDDaniel Raj David
from the company.
- AMAmrut
From what you do now to when you started in 2016, '17, has there been a lot of change or, or can you take us through what you were doing in 2016 and '17, and the pivots that have happened to where you are now? Of course, there was a pandemic in the middle also, so I'm sure there are some interesting stories there.
- DDDaniel Raj David
There were multiple pivots, right? We were a hardware-cum-software technology player, right? We built patented hardwares, and we built software layers to analyze the data from those patented hardwares, right? But what we understood was the industry started trusting us a lot. We were looked at as the innovation lab for the industrial ecosystem in India. There were BPCL, Adani, Vedanta, Aditya Birla, um, HPCL, and Reliance, multiple of the large players working with us across the country, right? So what we understood was, it became very important for us to under- understand where is the value, what is the value, and what can we outsource? This became a big question to us because I think as inventors in IIT, you get very biased towards your technology that you built now, um, and, and less think about product market fit and other things, right? So I would say a lot of the mentors, as well as the investors, helped us in that journey.
- AMAmrut
That's not specific to IIT. If you're sitting in a lab, you're solving for problems that the lab gets.
- DDDaniel Raj David
I agree.
- AMAmrut
And then you get attached to that solution that you have built.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah.
- AMAmrut
And then you take the solution to the market and hope that the market has a problem.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yes. [laughing]
- AMAmrut
[laughing] But if you're building a company, you should have started the other way.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah. Um, that's actually what we did. We spent so much time in the market throughout our college years, that we understood all the needs. This solution can be optimized further.... right? So number one, we did the hardware plus software play. I would say we did that up until 2018. Um, then 2019, we had collected so much data. We are the leading player in the world to collect visual data with regards to safety globally. Right now, we've collected more than 10,000 terabytes of information and trained it, right?
- AMAmrut
Mm, nice.
- DDDaniel Raj David
We didn't realize that that's a moat at, at that time.
- AMAmrut
Right.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Even then. We realized, okay, this is automation, and we can do this on our set of cameras and your set of cameras. Um, then-
- AMAmrut
Well, actually, I want to just point out here, uh, I was working with Hyperverge for a while.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Oh, okay.
- AMAmrut
Um, and, uh, in Hyperverge, they were also building vision systems in the 2014, '15-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah
- AMAmrut
... 14, '17 period. Uh, and they also ended up collecting a lot of data through their own work-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah
- AMAmrut
... or through their partners, and labeling it-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yes
- AMAmrut
... and, and creating those data sets. And if you own the data sets, then obviously your-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yep
- AMAmrut
... training is much better and-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Exactly.
- AMAmrut
And it's weird how your ability to sort of do a manually intensive work, um, without feeling like: Oh, this is too much work, I won't do it. Uh, but actually going and doing it can end up being a very strong moat.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah. Um, uh, as I said, we, we knew it could be a moat among the 100 things we were doing. It didn't hit us as to how much of a moat-
- AMAmrut
Okay
- 31:45 – 34:31
The Impact of the Pandemic
- DDDaniel Raj David
Then 2020, the pandemic hit-
- AMAmrut
Mm
- DDDaniel Raj David
... and nobody was allowed in facilities, so drone services out, sensor installation out, right? It was just bare bones, um, in the ecosystem. Um, revenue took a hit, and we, of course, um, had to understand: Okay, who are we as a company? People were going through layoffs. As an organization, are we going to go through the same process? We actually took a call at that time that changed our trajectory of the company, right? When revenue was going down, we sat down and said, "Okay, what's our strategy? Our revenue is down. We don't know how long this is going to last." And then we said, "We're not gonna let go of a single person. All these people have, uh, trusted and counted on the company." So we actually modified a lot of the roles within the company that were operational-focused, trained them to be data scientists, and we said, "We are going to be a hardware-agnostic company, and we'll just run these programs." We've already built a strong analytics layer. Let's just pivot completely to a AI SaaS company that works on existing infrastructure and provide insights to customers that are of multimillion-dollar value to each of them, right? And that pivot changed the trajectory of the organization, uh, in 2020.
- AMAmrut
Can I ask you a technical question here?
- DDDaniel Raj David
Please.
- AMAmrut
So if you're, if you are using the camera feed-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah
- AMAmrut
... to do analytics, that camera feed is coming to a central location, or it's going to a cloud? Is it hosted on the-
- DDDaniel Raj David
It is a cloud-based... We- There is both a cloud-based as well as an on-premise version.
- AMAmrut
Can it be deployed on the camera itself?
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yes. We have edge-based deployments as well, but the level of complexity of the compute is much lower-
- AMAmrut
Right
- DDDaniel Raj David
... right, for, because of hardware limitations. Hopefully, that gets better, uh-
- AMAmrut
As cameras can take more compute.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yes. Yeah. Um, uh, given how much, uh, the market cap of NVIDIA and other folks is, we will eventually get there-
- AMAmrut
Yeah
- DDDaniel Raj David
... is, is our belief. But as of now, you can run a few of the rules on the cameras itself, locally.
- AMAmrut
But that would mean that more remote, uh, uh, it-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Locations
- AMAmrut
... can run in more remote locations.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Offshore locations. We've have multiple offshore deployments-
- AMAmrut
Yeah
- DDDaniel Raj David
... across multiple oceans, um, in the world, as well as even onshore, where bandwidth and connectivity is a big problem. You can run it.
- AMAmrut
Okay.
- DDDaniel Raj David
But if you want to run something, OSHA, it's more than 1,000 rules. Like, if I had to count, program all the rules, it, it can fill a full book, book, right? To run something that complex, you will have to utilize the cloud at this point of time.
- AMAmrut
Okay. Understood.
- DDDaniel Raj David
So we use a cloud-based system across, uh-
- AMAmrut
Understood. Understood. So you, you were a hardware plus software company when you started?
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yes.
- AMAmrut
And then, as the pandemic hit, you realized that it makes more sense to move to a software-only company-
- 34:31 – 37:01
Transition to a Global Player
- AMAmrut
Uh, at what point did you go from companies like Reliance, HPCL, Indian-based companies, to a global, uh, portfolio?
- DDDaniel Raj David
2019, 2020. Same, same period of time.
- AMAmrut
Okay.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Um, our first international contract at that time was with Shell. Um, and then we started scaling across, uh, right? So I would say 2020, uh, was our first international deployment in the United States. Um, and then from there, again, the rest is history, right? We've scaled across-
- AMAmrut
Mm
- DDDaniel Raj David
... multiple players across the Shell, [beep] uh, and not just oil and gas, construction, international construction players, uh, international paper, paper manufacturing facilities, where it is surprising the amount of risk that exists, um, in paper manufacturing facilities as well. Um, and cross-industry mining, steel, the, the like. Um, 2020 was a pivotal moment, again, at that point of time, because now that you're hardware-agnostic, the value of your solution can be seen not just by players in India, but players in Canada. There were some companies where we didn't even have a face-to-face meeting where we had deployed the technology. They had seen the value of the technology over a one-month time period, and then scaled the technology up as well. So suddenly, from 2020 to now, we've gone from being, let's say, a two-country deployment company to now we're deployed in more than 20 countries at this point, um, globally.
- AMAmrut
That's cool. Um, two questions, uh, one remark about the way you mentioned paper.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah.
- AMAmrut
Uh, maybe consumers may or may not realize it, that something as delicate as paper [chuckles] in a factory process, it goes through absolute torture. Those molecules have gone through hell- [chuckles]
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah
- AMAmrut
... to turn from pulp-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Pulp, exactly
- AMAmrut
... or a, or a tree's cellulose to paper.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yep, yep. And there's dangerous equipment, right? There are these equipments called winders-
- AMAmrut
Mm
- DDDaniel Raj David
... that actually wind after you smash, like, winds the paper over there.... now, there are people that have got their arms stuck, chopped off, dislocated in these locations because they think the machine is stuck, and they think the machine is off.
- AMAmrut
Mm.
- DDDaniel Raj David
And then they go and try to fix it. Suddenly, it switches on, and, uh, there are multiple incidents like that that happen.
- AMAmrut
I'm, I'm so happy that your technology is trying to prevent that.
- DDDaniel Raj David
It is actively preventing it. It's, uh, uh, we have technology that can create red zones, that can again integrate back to the machine and tell the machine, uh, "There's a person in the vicinity in danger. You need to stop work."
- 37:01 – 40:51
Industry 4.0 and OSHA
- AMAmrut
Can you tell me a little bit about- uh, you used the word OSHA. Um, can you tell me how OSHA has evolved over time? And also, I think I've seen on your website, the word Industry 4.0.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Oh, yeah.
- AMAmrut
Yeah, I'm curious to know. I mean, I ha- I guess I have a broad idea what it means, but curious to know what is Industry 4.0 and-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Sure
- AMAmrut
... and the question comes to mind: what is 3.0 and [chuckles] there's 2.0? Is there a 5.0? [chuckles]
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah, there seems to be one coming up, at least-
- AMAmrut
Sure
- DDDaniel Raj David
... according to the some of the books I've read recently. Um, I'll answer the second question first, then, on the Industry 4.0, and then come to OSHA. Some people say we're in a transition from 4.0 to 5.0, but for the most part, we are right now still in 4.0. Um, Industry 1.0 was the first invention of the steam engine. [train whistle] Um, right at that time, which was, okay, you can have machinery perform activities, um, faster, um, than a human, right? Then Industry 2.0 was the Henry Ford era, which is what? The 1800s.
- AMAmrut
So Industry 1.0, we are building things like rail lines and-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Correct
- AMAmrut
... machine- uh, large, uh, maybe machines for, uh, construction, things like that.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yes. 2.0 is when you look at assembly line manufacturing, large-scale manufacturing, and how do you impact consumers at scale, right? Which is when Henry Ford came into the picture. Um, so that was, I would say, the 1800s. Then the next big leap of innovation took a while after that, which what people consider 3.0, is over the 1970s, where computers and digital started coming in, and automation came in, where you understood machines could perform repetitive tasks that you were having people do in these supply lines. And finally, most recently, over the last decade, or a little over the last decade, last 10 to 20 years, is where Industry 4.0 has come in, where you understood that you can create central layers. Um, devices can be IoT devices with the advent of the internet, machine learning, AI, and the like. And you can understand data, have machines talk to each other, have information from multiple machines come to a point for a central decision-making, um, right? And that is a continuously evolving process right now. So today, we are in the Industry 4.0 era, which is a massive, massive market. There are multiple companies-
- AMAmrut
So in e- each of these layers, uh, industries have become more ambitious, larger, uh, they're producing more goods at a faster speed-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yes
- AMAmrut
... more efficient, more power efficient, more, uh, safer.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yes.
- AMAmrut
Right? And, um, that's interesting. So then, um, how has OSHA evolved?
- DDDaniel Raj David
Oh, yeah. So OSHA would have started, I would say, with the first set of incidents that, that ever happened across these, these supply chain lines, with a few rules saying, "Okay, you shouldn't put your hand in specific areas of machinery that you're operating." Today, uh, OSHA is still evolving, right? It's a- your- the equipment you're building is safer and more efficient, but it comes out with new risks, right? And this continues to change with newer machinery that's brought into the, the market. So OSHA continues to evolve and upgrade. There's another body that works like OSHA, but in construction, called IOGP. Um, right? So these bodies, uh, today, they have massive books of, of this size, with thousands of rules, um, right across... I would say, I would categorize it into eight key categories, uh, which includes PPE, work at height, line of fire, uh, vehicle safety. There are multiple major categories, and under them, there are hundreds of sub-categories, uh, that come in. Um, right, so today, these are mature organizations. They do incident investigations across the world-
- AMAmrut
Okay
- DDDaniel Raj David
... um, and, uh, uh, make the world a safer place, actually, through policy as well.
- AMAmrut
Nice. And so, um, yeah, I think I've understood it. This is good. Like, let's, let's, let's, let's focus on something else that you spoke about-
- 40:51 – 46:26
Expanding Internationally
- DDDaniel Raj David
Sure
- AMAmrut
... uh, which is that you went from being a one, one-country, two-country operations to a 20-country operations.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yes.
- AMAmrut
It's a global space. Um, you're catering to American companies. Some of them, of course, may be 100 years old.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yes.
- AMAmrut
Um, uh, how does it- how do you make the leap from, uh, an Indian company working with other Indian companies? Maybe, uh, Professor Krishnan may have known them for a while-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Mm
- AMAmrut
... um, or your co-founder would have worked in one of those companies. So you, you had, uh, your friends, or friends of friends, or friends of friends of friends-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Mm
- AMAmrut
... to working for, uh, global companies, you know, thousands of kilometers away. They don't know you. Uh, they're from a different culture. They work differently. How does that, how does that leap happen?
- DDDaniel Raj David
I think every entrepreneur reaches multiple, uh, inflection points in their journey, right? Where one decision is going to change things. For us, um, this was one of those decisions that the first question was, "Is... Are all of these problems just an Indian problem because of the number of unregulated activities that happen, or is this a global problem?"
- AMAmrut
Mm.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Right? I think our first case study of that came from one of our first partners. Similar to how I said we had initial partners in the industrial ecosystem in India, our first international partner was Shell, uh, for that matter, through their office in Bangalore, right? And even them, they came and said, "Look, this is of value-- we believe is of value globally, but there's only one way to find out. Test it," right? "See the value on the ground. Have people on the ground say, 'I cannot live without this piece of technology,' right? Or, 'I, I cannot operate efficiently or safely. I feel better with this technology in place.'" Once that's there, then this is a very reputation-based market. Um, everyone speaks to everybody. People share learnings in keynotes and conferences. So-... the rest, organically, business will, will, will fuel itself, right?
- AMAmrut
Yeah. I can imagine that. I mean, uh, some Halliburton safety manager will always be curious, what is Shell safety manager doing?
- DDDaniel Raj David
Exactly.
- AMAmrut
Or, uh, what is the- how, how are the safety incidents elsewhere, and-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Precisely.
- AMAmrut
Mm.
- DDDaniel Raj David
So there's this- actually, there's this one person, his name is, uh, Shekar Karani, he's from Accel.
- AMAmrut
Mm.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Along with the-
- AMAmrut
Hey, one person? [chuckles] He's a very famous person.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Very famous person, very famous guy. Him, and the second guy who told this to us was, uh, Ashok Junjunwalla. So two very famous people actually came and told us, "What are you doing here? Just book a ticket and fly out. Figure the rest out later," [plane engine] right? Uh, to which we took a little bit of time, but then finally, in 2019, booked a ticket. Went- ended up in New York, which is the wrong place to be-
- AMAmrut
Mm
- DDDaniel Raj David
... um, for the industrial ecosystem.
- AMAmrut
Yeah, because the industries are in Texas and-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Texas, Louisiana, Pittsburgh, probably. Once we flew there and identified that, okay, the problem is a global problem, but the way you cater to that problem has to meet certain international standards.
- AMAmrut
Mm.
- DDDaniel Raj David
The level of delivery, implementation, support, perfection, and customer success as a concept has to be far more stringent in that region. And then, as I said, success fuels itself, so that became very important for us. So we actually have fully fledged entities in a lot of these regions between North America, the Middle East, um, and we operate through partners in, in Europe, and we have an entity in Singapore that takes care of the Southeast Asian region. Each of these entities ensure excellence in the region-
- AMAmrut
Okay
- 46:26 – 48:38
Funding Journey and Validation
- AMAmrut
Um, can you give us a idea of your funding journey?
- DDDaniel Raj David
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I would say we went through multiple rounds. Uh, 2017, we did a 800K, uh, round at that time. Uh, majorly angels, and I would say Accelor Ventures, which is Chris, uh, Chris and Shibu's, uh, fund, uh, seed stage fund, as well as-
- AMAmrut
That's a deep tech focus fund.
- DDDaniel Raj David
That's a deep tech focus fund. Deep tech focus funds were coming up at that time, actually. It was good timing. Uh, to- we also had Bharat Innovation Fund, which was another deep tech focus fund. But then we had, uh, one of the larger players, uh, Elevation, come in in 2018. Uh, that was a $3.3 million round. Um, then post that, our next round was in 2021, which was Accel, which is close to about, uh, Accel, Elevation, and I think, uh, the first infusion of funds from Shell Ventures, um, as well, close to about $9 million. And-
- AMAmrut
It must feel quite good to have a c- a customer-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Absolutely
- AMAmrut
... come in and say, "We'll invest in you," right?
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yes. Yeah.
- AMAmrut
That's a huge validation.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Massive. Massive. One of the best gold standard players in the world coming and saying, "Not only do we want you to add value to our sites, but we also want- we believe in your journey, and we want a piece of the cake," is absolute validation, uh, for the technology, the vision, and the mission. Uh, very recently in Shell specifically, we won what's called the CEO Award, which is an award, uh, CEO Award for Gold Zero, which is one of the awards given, uh, for technologies that have scaled the most on their Gold Zero journey, which is zero incidents-
- AMAmrut
Okay
- DDDaniel Raj David
... in their facilities. So, uh, that, that was another big win. Uh, but to continue on your point of funding round, then, uh, in 2022, we did another $25, uh, million between, uh, Process, Accel, Elevation, and of course, Shell Ventures, and Bharat Fund, and Accel- uh, Accel continued doing this. Uh, also, another player that's invested from day one, 2017, all the way till now, is also a item at, uh, Blue Hill, uh, Ventures.
- AMAmrut
Manu Iyer.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Manu Iyer, yeah.
- AMAmrut
This is damn good. Um, I wanna, I wanna s- sort of talk about a few things here and there, which I think we've missed out.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Sure.
- AMAmrut
Um, we spoke about your
- 48:38 – 55:03
Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs
- AMAmrut
origin story. We spoke about how you entered this field, and, uh, there was a point where we were talking about-... on how students looking to start up or young, let's just say young people looking to start up, um, who don't have a large, um, experience. They have to pick a problem they want to spend five, 10 years with, maybe 20 years with. Um, how do they seek problems that is sort of outside their limited zone?
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah, that's, that's a great question. Um, it has to come from within, firstly, because that was the same- Like, I'll tell you what, Detect wouldn't have existed if we didn't go out looking for problem statements, right? So I think initiative, uh, number one. Number two, there are many levers in the ecosystem that can fuel that initiative, right? I think we didn't have this. This was, again, started by Professor Krishnan, the Gopalakrishna Deshpande-
- AMAmrut
GDC, yeah.
- DDDaniel Raj David
GDC, the initiative over there, it didn't exist in our time. In fact, one of the reasons that that came up was because we believed that, okay, we got exposure. Everyone needs to get exposure, so something like this needs to be formed, was how Krishnan sir also was, was, was thinking about, uh, doing this. But, um, I think there is also a great mentorship ecosystem within IIT. Um, there are folks in IITM Incubation Cell and mentor programs that, uh, we used to, uh, spend a lot of time just going to the IITM IC, uh, just to take advice from folks like John, um, and then other mentors from the ecosystem. And there was another person, very impactful in our journey, which is, uh, a person named Gopal. Um, he was the previous MD at the Sun Mart Kemplus IITM grad, and, uh, he started with, "Okay, you need to stop being a student. You need to understand finances, use cases. How do you bring ROI," right? That was the first evolution to a third-year student on how do we do this. Um, so I think leveraging your, your seniors, your IITM network is extremely important. Um, spending time- The moment you think of a use case, let's say it's a B2B. B2C, okay, you can meet customers. B2B, the only way is actually to go observe how their facilities operate, observe how their sites operate, and I think the alumni ecosystem is the best way-
- AMAmrut
Sure
- DDDaniel Raj David
... to be level.
- AMAmrut
So basically, you are saying put yourself out there.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Absolutely.
- AMAmrut
Leverage your ecosystem, and use your, whoever you have access to, to be exposed to a larger problem set. But I want to ask you a question about that. You sent one mail, and the prof replied. [laughing] Which is, I feel, amazing. Okay. Now, a student today, maybe he sends 15 emails, contacts 15 people, gets 15 problems-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Wow
- AMAmrut
... 'cause the idea with us is, like, getting a lot of problems for everyone, right?
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah.
- AMAmrut
So there's so many things that people are working on and so many... It- As a student, how do you parse, like, "Should I spend time on this? Should I spend time on that? Um, will, will this be interesting to me for a long time? Will I create- be able to create value?" Um, you get what I'm saying? Like, it may be the, the... Is it a pr- I feel sometimes that it's a problem of plenty.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah. I, I would say two, two things to that. One is, of course, I sent one mail to Krishnan. Before that, before I had the chat with Harry, I had sent a mail to, like, some 15 different prof [chuckles] who, who ignored me.
- AMAmrut
[chuckles]
- DDDaniel Raj David
But, um, I, I would say it's also another thing. One common trait you will see in all of the founders that we met, even at the recent event at Sangam, is there is a problem of plenty.
- AMAmrut
Mm.
- DDDaniel Raj David
But the ones who survive are not the ones who are actually successful, uh, initially. It was all the folks that were obsessed. The, the one common thing about founders is, of course, obsession with some sense of se- uh, with some sense of, "Okay, there is value." But, uh, I can tell you there were multiple times in our own journey where folks came and told us, "This is too complex an environment for you guys to innovate in."
- AMAmrut
Mm.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Um, "You guys are not going to make it. You're... Yeah, you're, you're, you're too young."
- AMAmrut
Young 20-year-olds-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah
- AMAmrut
... in a large-
- DDDaniel Raj David
In a where decision makers are 50 and above.
- AMAmrut
Yeah.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Right? So it w- To many folks, it was illogical. What Taran Mehta was doing at that point of time was j- too ambitious.
- AMAmrut
Yeah.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Um, right? So the common trait across most founders that make it eventually is, is just sheer obsession, uh, with the problem statement, and clear visibility that there's value to be unlocked.
- AMAmrut
Mm.
- DDDaniel Raj David
And they figure out a way. So you are going to get knocked down tons of times. We got knocked down tons of times. [chuckles] Um, it was not easy, but eventually that grit, um, in the individual is... There's no hack. There's no easy-- If it was easy, everyone would have multi-billion dollar startups at this time.
- 55:03 – 57:08
The Role of Ecosystem and Mentorship
- AMAmrut
it together.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Take it.
- AMAmrut
How has the IIT Madras ecosystem helped you?
- DDDaniel Raj David
Tremendously. Um, I think starting from day one, access to the lab, right? Lab infrastructure, that is... Of course, we work in Professor Krishnan's lab. At the time, it was one of the most cutting-edge research facilities in the world, uh, in fact, uh, competes globally. So that number-
- AMAmrut
This is the Center for Non-Destructive Evaluation-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Non-Destructive Evaluation.
- AMAmrut
CNDE.
- DDDaniel Raj David
CNDE. Fantastic, uh, center. Um, we had access to a lot of, uh, industrial problem statements as a result. Um, and then in the next phase became the mentorship from seniors. I would say, just the fact that you have talent over here that you-
- AMAmrut
Yeah
- DDDaniel Raj David
... would be- you would struggle to find-
- AMAmrut
Yeah
- DDDaniel Raj David
... um, in the open market, right? And, uh, those- the best minds across departments exist over here. Um, then the fourth is going to be the incubation ecosystem. I think from an incubation perspective, probably one of the best in, in the country. Um, right, so the access to mentors, I think we had the vice chair- previous vice chairman of the Murugappa Group, who would come in, spend half an hour, actually, just giving us yarn exposure and say, "If you're worth it, go visit our facility in Coromandel," right? And he would set up meetings as a result. So, um, the incubation, uh, facilities also are great, and the fact that you have talent of CFI, where people are itching, uh-
- AMAmrut
To do work.
- DDDaniel Raj David
To do work, right? Who are itching, uh, and want to create value desperately, and these are smart minds-
- AMAmrut
Yeah
- DDDaniel Raj David
... uh, trying to do that. I think all of this put together is a recipe. In fact, June puts it extremely well, uh, Ashok, sir, he puts it well. He says, "Here in, uh, in, in this ecosystem, we have technology, we have professors, we have industrial specialists, but our X factor is students who don't know that something can't be done," right? It, it requires that foolhardiness, um, and that's what, uh, we all represent.
- AMAmrut
Nice. I'm going to quote that.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah.
- AMAmrut
"We don't know that something can't be done." [clears throat] Very cool, Daniel. This is
- 57:08 – 1:00:08
Closing Thoughts and Reflections
- AMAmrut
amazing. Um, just, uh, we are at the hour, so we've spent a lot talking about your company. Congratulations on the growth you've had.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Thank you.
- AMAmrut
You're an inspiration to a lot of people, and, and I hope that... Uh, you know, you've been a little stealth throughout, so I think a lot more people will be aware of the scale and the impact that you've had-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Absolutely
- AMAmrut
... up to now, so I'm really looking forward to that. Um, you're also married to an IIT batchmate.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yes.
- AMAmrut
So, you know, I think [chuckles] congratulations.
- DDDaniel Raj David
[chuckles] Thank you.
- AMAmrut
That's something more that IIT has given you. [chuckles]
- DDDaniel Raj David
[chuckles] Yeah, yeah. IIT is, uh, ingrained. So my father is from here, my wife is from here, I'm from here, so, so yeah, it's, uh, very close to my heart.
- AMAmrut
Nice. Let's close on that note. Thank you so much for coming in. Um, yeah, any ending thoughts?
- DDDaniel Raj David
Oh, no. It, it was definitely a pleasure to finally meet, uh, you, Amrut, because when I met you in Sangam, uh, to be introduced to someone who was the, the first mind for CFI, uh, it's because of, uh, folks like you that we are able to do what we do.
- AMAmrut
I wouldn't say that. I... CFI, as a setup, started in 2000- the work started in 2007. I was a student then. Uh, I definitely was part of the team that was leading the effort to put up CFI.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah.
- AMAmrut
I graduated one month before CFI was actually founded.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Oh, wow! Okay.
- AMAmrut
So, uh, I graduated in June-
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah
- AMAmrut
... and July was the, uh, setup. And of course, right from the word go, CFI has been, uh, blessed. Uh, the principal scientific advisor to the Prime Minister inaugurated it.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah.
- AMAmrut
I did come down for the inauguration, and after that, we've had a series of successive, uh, heads who have done really good work, uh, some of whom... Uh, my- the first head was, I think, Ravikant.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah.
- AMAmrut
And then, uh, there was Ravi Teja, and, uh, lots of people who have gone on to do really good things. Of course, Swapnil and Tarun were very active in CFI at one point.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah, yeah.
- AMAmrut
Uh, so I mean, I don't, I don't know what stars aligned for us.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Yeah, you're being super humble, but it really set up the ecosystem for us, people like us to exist. Um, right, or otherwise it would have been... I tell you what, at one point, we were a student-run, like 40, 50 interns, right?
- AMAmrut
Mm.
- DDDaniel Raj David
Half of- like, almost all of them were, were folks just sitting here working on... Maybe not here, but in the, in the old CFI.
- AMAmrut
Old CFI. This is the new building of CFI.
- DDDaniel Raj David
CFI, yeah, yeah. Who were just working on different robotics equipment over there. Though, that, that was the talent that built, built us up, and, uh, the stories goes the same for many of us.
Episode duration: 1:00:08
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