Alex Cooper: The Truth I Never Planned to Share...

1. 0:00 – 2:00

   Intro

   1. ACAlex Cooper0:00

      I don't think they knew the impact it was having, but it was destroying me inside. Oh my God, sorry, I didn't expect for this to happen. Um ... (clicks tongue) (text message pings) (text message alert) What is up Daddy Gang?

   2. SBSteven Bartlett0:19

      Alex Cooper! Create that post of- Call Her Daddy. The most listened to female podcast in the world, hundreds of millions of downloads every month. Why you?

   3. ACAlex Cooper0:29

      I do everything for my audience. It's a very f'ed up industry to be a part of. Morally, I don't know if I should be saying this, but it just keeps getting bigger the more that we keep saying wild sh- But exploiting my life for four years, there is a cost. The last year or so that I had a co-host, I was really struggling. Call Her Daddy was the biggest show ever, and everyone was like, "These girls are the best of friends!" And it was all crumbling behind the scenes. Why was I, like, getting people out of bed? Managing, like, drugs and alcohol, trying to be this fixer? Someone's gonna be the victim and someone's gonna be the villain, and I was the villain. You can get down a really dark path if you do have a goal. It's not worth losing yourself to get the prize.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett1:16

      If today were your last day and I slid you a phone and said, "You're gonna have a conversation with your former partner," would you dial the number?

   5. ACAlex Cooper1:23

      I struggled so much wanting to tell the full story and wanting to tell the truth. How do I say this?

   6. SBSteven Bartlett1:31

      Before we get into this episode, just wanted to say thank you, first and foremost, for being part of this community. Um, the team here at the Diary of a CEO is now almost 30 people, and that's literally because you watch and you subscribe and you, um, leave comments and you like the videos that th- this show's been able to grow. And it's the greatest honor of my life to sit here with these incredible people and just selfishly ask some questions that I'm pondering over or worrying about in my life. But this is just the beginning for the Diary of a CEO. We've got big, big plans to scale this show, um, to every corner of the world

2. 2:00 – 7:07

   What shaped you?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett2:00

      and to, to, to diversify our guest selection. And that's enabled by you, by a simple thing that you guys do, which is to watch. So, if there's one thing you could do to help this show and to help us continue to do what we do, it's just to hit the subscribe button. If you like this show, if you like what we do here, if you watch these episodes, please just hit that subscribe button. Means the world. (whispers) Let's get on with it. (instrumental music plays) Alex.

   2. ACAlex Cooper2:29

      Hi. (laughs)

   3. SBSteven Bartlett2:31

      What is the earliest thing, the earliest piece of context that I need to know about you to understand the person that's sat in front of me today and all that she's accomplished?

   4. ACAlex Cooper2:41

      Oh my gosh, Stephen. (laughs) Um ... Oh, that's a hard question. I would say I think that the experience I had growing up watching my father and what he did for a living. My dad is a sports television producer, and I remember when I was younger, my mom would take my sister, my brother, and I into Philadelphia, and we would go to the Philadelphia Flyers games 'cause that's what he would produce. And we would stay in the stands watching hockey for, like, a period. And then after the first period, we would beg my mom, like, "Please can we go see Dad? Can we go see Dad?" And my mom would be like, "Okay," like, "Let's go." And she'd be like, "You have to be quiet," and so she would bring us down to the television studio. And every single time it would, like, take my breath away watching my dad because I would walk in and he would be at the dead center at the front of the room with, like, 20 people behind him, 70-plus cameras in front of him, and he would be producing and directing a live sporting event. And that's, like, my earliest memory of realizing, like, "Holy shit, I want to do this." Like, "I wanna do what my dad does." And, um, I think it was always instilled in me also, like, my dad loved what he did. So, I know a lot of my friends, their dads would be like, "Gotta go to work," and, like, I get that that's, like, a lot of people in the world. But I was so fortunate to watch my dad, was the first one in the arena, like, he was the first one there. He had his notes, he was ready to go, and then I would watch him, like, produce this live show of, like, roll camera A, go to the announcers, roll the graphic, like, hit the color, and I just was so enthralled by that world that from a very young age, I was able to quickly locate, "That's what I wanna do. That's what I, I want." Not only just, like, the actual act of producing, but the way that my father engaged with his work like it wasn't work. My dad never complained about going. He was always so enthusiastic. And so to see your, your parent and a figure above you that you respect so much be so in love with what they're doing, I always was like, "I want my passion to become my purpose, to become what I do in life." And I do think that kind of then makes sense as to, like, where I am now. Like, I love what I do and I really accredit a lot of that to, like, watching my father be so in love with his career and his job.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett5:18

      What about your mother?

   6. ACAlex Cooper5:19

      My mother is a psychologist, so it's, like, the perfect storm. Growing up I was like, "Mom, stop being so smart. Leave me alone. Why do all of the k- other kids' moms would be like, 'Oh yeah, go to the movies, sweetie,'" and my mom would be like, "You're not going to the movies, you're going to a party. Tell me what's happening. Where are you going?" I'd be like, " (gasps) Why do you know these things?" So it was frustrating, I think, when I was younger. My mom and I had a really interesting dynamic because I always liked to push the boundaries, and I was the youngest, so I was kind of, like, the wild child. And I loved that my mom was a psychologist, but I hated it because she was, like, too insightful and too with it that I wish I could've gotten away with more. But I do think as I started to come into my own having her have this background in psychology allowed me to...... really put more of an importance on connection, connecting to your emotions, um, EQ versus IQ. Like, my parents cared about our grades, but they also were more like, "Do you know how to interact in a room?" Like, "Do you know how to read the room?" Like, "Do you know when your friend is upset, are you being, um, honest with yourself of how you're feeling?" So like, my household was always like, "How are you feeling? What's going on?" And I'm like, "Can we stop talking about our feelings for one fucking second?" But it really was like the perfect storm of I now on my show am so interested in just talking and having engaging conversations because I think my mother, it was like a prerequisite in our house of like, "No, no, you can't leave the house before I know like how are you doing." I'm like, "I'm fine." Uh, but like, so I think I really admired her, but in my like angsty teen years, I was like, "Fuck off, like stop asking me how I'm feeling. I want to go drink and have fun with my friends." Um, but she's amazing and she's been like probably the most instrumental person in my life

3. 7:07 – 20:22

   Being bullied & how content saved me

   1. ACAlex Cooper7:07

      in terms of like my personal development as a human being.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett7:12

      When she asked you how you were feeling when you were a kid, were you always honest with her?

   3. ACAlex Cooper7:18

      No. Oh God, no. I was really, um ... I had a hard time with like wanting to make my parents really proud. I think they saw a lot in me and I was very like doing a lot of things. I was really good at soccer. I was like good at making movies and films and all the things, but I like really struggled in school. And so I never wanted to tell my parents that because I felt like ... I think I was like embarrassed because like who I was at home was so not who I was at school. And so I was almost like ... I'm still working through this in therapy, so I don't really know the full answer yet, but what I do know is I was like embarrassed to explain to my parents that I was like getting bullied at school or having a hard time 'cause when I got home, I then was my actual real self where I was outgoing and goofy and happy, but then when I would go to school, I never wanted to tell them actually like that I was struggling, which is really strange and I am still working on trying to figure out like why I didn't feel that way because my parents were so loving, would've gone to school and like talked to the teachers or the parents of the little shits that were bullying me, but I just had this like internal way of compartmentalizing school struggles and then like being at home and trying to engage in things that I loved and made me happy and I'd just like to like separate the two.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett8:47

      As you were saying though, I was trying to like figure out why that is sometimes, why we-

   5. ACAlex Cooper8:50

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett8:50

      But, uh, and my brain said like we almost don't wanna taint our, our happy place or our safe place-

   7. ACAlex Cooper8:55

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett8:56

      ... with the, with the unhappy place. It's like it would almost poison that place. It'd bring that energy into the-

   9. ACAlex Cooper9:00

      Mm-hmm.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett9:01

       ... into that safe place.

   11. ACAlex Cooper9:02

       Yeah. I think that's a good point. Like, I r- I really struggled with people being so mean. Strictly it was just all about my appearance. Like, I was a very awkward kid. I think I had a hard time also coming out and talking about it on Call Her Daddy 'cause I feel like the persona that I am putting out into the world is very like blonde bombshell, she's got her life together, and people are like, "You got bullied?" And so that dichotomy I think is like hard for people to understand, but like I still feel like the girl that was bullied in middle school, elementary school. So I, I think, yeah, I think there was like a pride thing of like they can do that to me at school, but when I get home and I'm gonna go in the basement and I'm gonna make my films, like th- they can't touch that. Like, that's for me and that's what honestly like saved my life to be honest. Like, creating content was like the one thing that kept me going and like happy and I was able to find my purpose because school was like just so awful for me.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett10:04

       When you say saved my life, do, do you mean that?

   13. ACAlex Cooper10:07

       Yeah. I, I actually found like a journal. I'm not crying, but my eyes just will not stop watering. Or maybe I am. Um, I found a journal of mine and it was so fucking sad to read. I was really going through a hard time in school. I think when you go through bullying, you feel so fucking isolated and unfortunately or I hope like I actually don't think the kids that were bullying me, and most of them were boys, um, I don't think they knew the impact it was having. Like, it was like a casual mean comment at recess, but it was destroying me inside, and so I found a journal that broke my heart because it was basically me saying like, "Ugh. This is..." If... I was like, "If I killed myself, maybe then they would realize like how fucked up all the comments that they were saying to me." Oh my God. Sorry. I didn't expect for this to happen. Um, I just like, I think I realized like I'm like, "Fuck." Like, they would then realize like the impact that their comments had on me and I really don't think that, like, I'm saying like I don't think those kids actually knew like, damn, like ... And so I think almost the way of thinking about killing myself was like then they would realize the impact. And so I had a lot of dark thoughts that like I- I'm b- I'm, like I feel really bad for myself in that moment because I think a lot of times people are like, "I wouldn't take certain things back because, like, it made me who I am." I would take that back. I think what, what I felt in those moments, I would absolutely take back 'cause it just like, I don't, I think I could still be where I am and not have gone through that type of pain.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett11:57

       Have you had to have a conversation with that, that girl, the younger version of Alex in therapy and stuff to-

   15. ACAlex Cooper12:04

       Yeah. Um, it's been weird because our job is so weird where like I remember ...Do we have a tissue? (laughs)

   16. SBSteven Bartlett12:12

       Yeah, sorry.

   17. ACAlex Cooper12:13

       No, you're fine. (laughs) I'm like, "Whoa, I didn't expect to cry this soon, and I wasn't even expecting to cry." Um, I think why I'm so emotional too is, like, I'm kind of, like, currently working through this in therapy, and I think our job is very strange, where I remember when I took the show on my own, um, and I was doing, like, solo episodes, and I kept f- realizing I had, like, these people-pleasing tendencies. And I wanted to share it on my show, but I'm like, "I have to give context to the Daddy Gang, my fans, like, why I have these tendencies." And so, I remember telling my fans and the world that I was bullied before I even told my therapist. And I do sometimes think there's, like, something beautiful about that, of like, I knew by s- me saying that, I was gonna immediately connect with so many of my fans, and like, we were gonna be able to have an even deeper connection. But I haven't really worked through all of it, so like, I think sometimes when you bring up things you went through and you're not fully healed or whatever, like, I'm still kinda in the middle of processing all of it. But I have started to think about that younger self, but I d- I think it's still so raw of, like, even unpacking, like, how it's affected me in adulthood that I'm having a hard time, like, going through all the layers of it still.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett13:40

       Have you seen s- sort of imprints that remain on you as an adult? I think about my own experience being, I mean, talked about this a lot on this show so people know, but being the only, like, Black kid in an all-white school, being the poorest family in the area, and that constant feeling of, like, ongoing shame. Like-

   19. ACAlex Cooper13:53

       Yeah, I think back, and I've realized in my adult life, like, I always would say how I am so comfortable being alone. I love my alone time. But I think that comes from the initial inception was, like, such pain and hurt and isolation. Um, when I was young, I would go into my room, and I would cry, but I would make sure my parents couldn't hear me crying, again, because, like, I wanted to be, like, the cool soccer player, creative girl when I'm home, and I didn't want them to know what I was going through, so I would be crying or writing in a journal. And I realized, like, I got so ... I went through, like, hating every single thing about myself externally. Like, I would look up remedies of, like, how to get rid of my cystic acne. Like, I would literally envision taking, like, a razor and, like, taking it off my skin. Like, I thought of so many things, and I, I just, like, was constantly trying to change myself, because I was getting bullied for, like, the way that I looked. And I think it's really detrimental when you're at an age where, like, all you care about is peer approval, all you care about is people liking you. And so, I think the part of me that, like, yes, hated myself, I did get really comfortable being alone, because those were the moments where I allowed myself to have all of the thoughts, like, bottling up and not telling anyone that I was going through this. I remember a f- a friend of mine that I'd been friends with since, like, fourth grade, she was like, "Alex, I can't believe you never told me, because I was going through something really similar." She has red hair and freckles, and she was like, "I got so bullied." And we were in the same school and we were best friends and we didn't even know we were both going through it. And I can't even imagine how much easier my life would've been if I at least, like, grabbed onto her and we had each other, but I think bullying is very hard to explain unless you've gone through it, where, like, you're so alone. You hate yourself. You almost, like, yeah, you hate the bullies, but you almost, like, some- you just internalize it, so you hate yourself. You don't even hate them as much as you hate yourself. You wanna change yourself. You wanna be able to fit in. You wanna hide. You, and so you do certain things where, like, even my, my mannerisms or my posture was so, like, defeated and awkward, um, and now I look back and it's like, my adult life, I have ex- I- I'm working on n- w- working through extreme people-pleasing tendencies, because I just wanted people to like me when I was younger. And so, even sometimes I see things on the internet where I'm like, "Oh, I was being, like, too annoying or extra," but it's like, I feel like I just want people to like me, and sometimes that's all I'm thinking about that I can imagine that comes off in a way that's maybe not as likable. But it's like, I really am just trying to connect. Um, and then I think the, the loner thing, like, I've had so many ... I had s- a lot of issues in romantic relationships, where I would be, like, in love with someone, but they would be like, "What? I didn't even know you liked me." And so, I think I would avoid getting hurt and rejected, because I was rejected in those years of feeling the ultimate rejection of, again, when you're like, all you care about is peer dynamics, friends, like, who's in who's top five. Like, boys were, like, repulsed by me, and so I was like, I hated myself. I didn't think I was good enough. And so, when I would get someone, I tried to, like, have a defense almost against, like, they can't hurt me, 'cause like, I'm already setting myself up to know it's gonna be over before they can, like, reject me.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett17:53

       You know, when I sit here with, um, people and I learn about their early years, I think there's always, and probably I had this assumption before I started doing this, that when we reach the moment of success or whatever, when our circumstances change, the trauma goes out the door-

   21. ACAlex Cooper18:06

       (laughs)

   22. SBSteven Bartlett18:06

       ... with it. And I- I c- I've come to learn from doing this that it stays.

   23. ACAlex Cooper18:09

       Mm-hmm.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett18:10

       And I've actually, I feel like I've never met a person who has managed to take their early upbringing, their early adverse upbringing to zero. I've never met the person.

   25. ACAlex Cooper18:18

       Yeah. (laughs)

   26. SBSteven Bartlett18:20

       I'm guessing you've made progress-

   27. ACAlex Cooper18:21

       Mm-hmm.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett18:22

       ... on these things?

   29. ACAlex Cooper18:22

       Mm-hmm. Yeah, I have. (swallows) I think, like, when I was so young, being in school, I, I started to really struggle with my grades because it would be like, I'm getting bullied in school, and I would run home and I started to compartmentalize so well that creating content, to me, was like literally what kept me going, right? And so I would go into my basement and my dad gave me this, like, big, huge, clunky Sony camera, and I was obsessed with creating these characters, creating these storylines. Like, I laugh now because I didn't even put it together, but I would force all my friends, all my soccer friends, to participate in, like, making videos with me. And we remade The Devil Wears Prada. And you would think immediately from what I'm telling you, like, who would I play? I would play Anne Hathaway's character. I played Meryl Streep. (laughs) I, I was fricking Miranda Priestly. And like, I'm the farthest thing from that at that point in my life. But it was like, I loved playing characters that f- like, it like ignited this confidence in me where I could feel for a minute like, "I, I am this boss." Like, "I am this, like, strong, confident woman." Um, and so creating content for me was like this outlet that allowed me to almost, like, become the thing that internally... I always did have this confidence, and I knew I had this fun personality and this spark, but it was so tainted by the minute I walked out the doors of my house. When I was struggling in school, I think I started to realize like, "I don't wanna do math. I don't wanna do history." Like, "I just wanna create content." And I think it was really hard for me to focus in school because I almost was like, so focused on the goal of like, "Let me just keep creating content." And I can't explain it, but it was like the driving force for me to just keep going

4. 20:22 – 24:27

   How did therapy help you?

   1. ACAlex Cooper20:22

      and to keep dealing with a lot of the bullshit that I was struggling with.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett20:28

      Therapy?

   3. ACAlex Cooper20:29

      Hmm.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett20:29

      I'm thinking about that alignment you're talking about between being, being able to show up as yourself everywhere you go-

   5. ACAlex Cooper20:36

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett20:36

      ... whether it's in school or whether it's, I dunno, on your show or wherever. Also, it was quite clear that in school in your early years, you weren't able to show up as yourself.

   7. ACAlex Cooper20:46

      Hmm.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett20:48

      What role has therapy played in helping you to become Alix when you're on camera, off camera, in school, in social settings, wherever you go?

   9. ACAlex Cooper20:58

      Well, at first, it wasn't changing my life, and my therapist was like, had a hard conversation with me. I think it was like two months into us working together, and she was like, "Alix, I need to say something to you." And I'm like, "Am I in trouble?" She's like, "You k- you pay me. Like, you're not in trouble, but I need to be honest with you. I can tell you're not, you're not being honest. You put on this facade that everything is good, everything's okay." I'm like, "The point is to come here and be emotional, and you can trust me to not tell anyone, judge you." And I think I had kept this hard exterior for so long that it was really foreign to me to open up and talk about my insecurities and what I'd struggled with. Because when you're bullied, you eventually create this armor that is like completely sealed shut. You, you wear it and you, like, know the pain, but you eventually have to survive and keep going. And so I think in therapy, my therapist was like, "What is, why can I not, like, get in there?" And I eventually, I didn't, I didn't even say anything in that session. I was like, "I don't know. Like, I'm telling you the truth." And then weirdly, that was when I ended up opening up on my show about it, and then I came back to her and I was like, "Okay, here you go." And I just spilled everything because I was at least attuned enough to therapy from my mother of like, "I know in order to actually have change within myself and for this to work, I have to be honest." But there was still like, I was still embarrassed to tell my therapist because I knew she would look at me differently, and I thought she thought I was like this well put together person, and I just was like, "Holy shit, I've created such a facade that like everything is perfect exteriorly with me that I'm not gonna be able to actually undo the damage that was done if I don't actually start talking about it." And so that was like a really pivotal moment for me where therapy finally broke down that layer, but my therapist had to chip away, and now she jokes about it with me all the time. It's like, "Do you remember when you would come in..." And I'd be like, so, and eventually she was like, "Why are we here?"

   10. SBSteven Bartlett23:21

       Whose decision was it to go to therapy?

   11. ACAlex Cooper23:23

       Me.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett23:24

       Did you go with, with a particular focus or just generally?

   13. ACAlex Cooper23:27

       Yeah, it was a particular focus. It was, um, about like the last year or so that I had a co-host. I was really struggling, um, and I was like, my mom kept being like, "I need to be your mom. I can't be your therapist." Like, "You, you need to talk to someone." And that was when I finally, so that was about like 25, 24, and I finally was like, "Okay, I'm just gonna get a therapist." And it was in New York City, and I would go in person with her, and that, i- it felt very, um (smacks lips) at first, it felt very like, "Why am I here?" Like, "I don't need this." But then eventually it like cracked and it was really helpful, but it, it was not easy, I will say. I think a lot of people think therapy is like, sit down and tell your secrets. Like, it's so awkward at first if you're not... Even I had a psychologist as a mother, and I'm still like, "I don't wanna do this." But I think it's all in your head because once you open the floodgates-...

5. 24:27 – 37:55

   Call her daddy co-hosts

   1. ACAlex Cooper24:27

      they never close.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett24:28

      You were struggling?

   3. ACAlex Cooper24:30

      Mm-hmm. Yeah. Are you asking me with what?

   4. SBSteven Bartlett24:33

      Yeah. Y- you said you were struggling, so you pro- y- from what you said, you were going to your mother and, and explaining that-

   5. ACAlex Cooper24:40

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett24:40

      ... there was a struggle. That struggle, is that a, is that a social struggle with a friend or is that a psychological struggle or-

   7. ACAlex Cooper24:45

      I think in business there was a lot happening where I was living with someone I was doing business with, we were struggling with business, like, there were so many things happening and I was ... how do I say this? I was struggling to take care of myself in an environment that was really unhealthy and was ... like, the show was priority, but behind the scenes it was a disaster, and so I was, like, compromising on a lot of things that, like, morally I didn't agree with or mentally I wasn't feeling good about. And it was at a really weird time because Call Her Daddy was, like, the biggest show ever and everyone was like, "These girls are the best and they're the best of friends and they're the best." And, like, that's life. Like, you, it's almost like how everyone talks about, like, Instagram, we put our best foot forward, and it was all crumbling behind the scenes and it was terrifying to me, because I worked my whole life to, like, get to a point like this where I'm producing a show and it just felt very scary to me that I didn't have control of all the aspects going on.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett26:03

      And the symptoms were psychological for you?

   9. ACAlex Cooper26:05

      Psychological. I was basically in a co-dependent relationship. Like, it was so unhealthy, um, for both of us, and, uh, I think psychologically, yes. I even think physically it was taking a toll on me. Um, and then it was also taking a toll on my other relationships because, like, the partner I had at the time was, like, bearing the weight of me complaining about so much going on in my life because I couldn't go at the person that I had to get up every morning with and record, right? Like, I couldn't be ... um, I had to keep the show going, so it was, like, very detrimental to, yes, ps- psychologically and my, like, mental health. Like, the show came first before, I think, both of our personal needs.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett26:55

       What was the advice you, you, you needed most at that moment but didn't get? Or maybe just before that moment happened, because that's kind of like-

   11. ACAlex Cooper27:02

       Mm-hmm.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett27:03

       That's when things start falling.

   13. ACAlex Cooper27:05

       Yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett27:05

       But if you'd got advice maybe a couple of years earlier, it would have prevented you getting into that situation. So what is that advice that ... And I'm saying this because of there's someone at home now who's, you know, they want to follow in your footsteps in whatever career-

   15. ACAlex Cooper27:17

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett27:17

       ... or industry it might be. But when you get into business and things start going well, you wi- you just fucking wish that someone had told you ...

   17. ACAlex Cooper27:28

       Fuck. (laughs) I mean ... maybe that ... it's okay to leave. It's okay to leave a situation for both people involved. Um, it's okay to want to hold onto something because i- in some aspects it's really working, but if you are compromising your morals and your mental health and at one point your sanity, like, it ain't worth it. Um, but again, I think, like, even if someone had told me that, I had to live through it because I worked my wh- my whole life for this. Like, I finally got the show and I was producing and I was doing what I loved, but I then started to hate it, and that to me was when I was like ... I didn't need anyone to tell me at that point that I should leave. It was like, "Oh, I've loved this my whole life. Something's off." Like, if I'm this miserable, there's a better way.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett28:50

       From that, you must have learnt the factors that need to be in place professionally for you to love work, because you, you got to experience head-on all the factors that make a passion turn into-

   19. ACAlex Cooper29:02

       Yeah.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett29:02

       ... misery. So on, on the flip side, what are the factors that you need and you believe people generally need-

   21. ACAlex Cooper29:07

       Mm-hmm.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett29:08

       ... for them to, like, love their work?

   23. ACAlex Cooper29:10

       Yeah. I think that the first thing is, like, business is so ... there's so many different layers, it's so, so complicated, even if it's just you, so then add another person in. It's almost impossible, and I think, like, it was so difficult. My partner and I at the time had such different wants, such different, you know, envisionments for our career and the future, and that is so okay, but I think the issue is, like, if you have the ability to sit down before you begin, which we didn't really have. Like, I remember I came home, um ... one day, or she came home from work one day, she was, uh, the third roommate to me and my best friend from childhood. We had met her, like, it was, like, a very random, like, "Hey, we need a third. Do you wanna come live with us?" We had lived together for, like, a couple months if that, and I was like, "Do you wanna do this podcast with me?" I had no idea it was gonna be the biggest podcast in the world. I had no idea her wants and what truly she was interested in, what she was passionate about. We were passionate about such different things, so it's like, I think in business, you do have to actually believe that this could become the biggest thing.You have to put your mind there. And one, that's incredible for your self-confidence to be like, "If you're starting a business, pretend it's about to be Apple." Envision. And, and who you're sitting next to, do you want to be there with them? Or for yourself, are you willing to get there and sacrifice certain things in your personal life to get there? Like, whether it's a duo or a singular person, like, you actually have to envision yourself at the end line and at your goal, because you have to mentally start to function that way. Because then all of a sudden, you could get there, and then you're like, "Oh, fuck, I didn't plan for this." And I think that's kind of what we both felt. We were like, "We don't even really know each other. Three episodes in, this is the biggest show in the world. Like, we're drinking buddies. Like, what? This is not a- this is not supposed to be a business, and we are way in over our heads." And I think that's okay. But I look back and I'm like, "I had no idea what we were getting ourselves into." But I do think in business it's like, you gotta think big. 'Cause once you get there, you better be prepared. And I wasn't (laughs) .

   24. SBSteven Bartlett31:43

       Do you know what? That's actually the advice that I wish I'd got before I started in business, which is, imagine the day when someone comes along and offers you 100 million. How are your contracts? How are you... (laughs) . Because when you start, you'll, you'll, you'll be tempted by, "Oh my god, I've £50,000."

   25. ACAlex Cooper32:00

       (laughs) .

   26. SBSteven Bartlett32:00

       "I have £10,000, £5,000. Here you go, everything. I'll sign anything." And then... And you do that often in your desperation and naivety, but then you get five years down the line, things are big, and you just absolutely fucking wish and dread that you didn't think like this. Um, so there's gonna be a lot of people listening that are either starting out in their business journeys that really need to get into that difficult mindset.

   27. ACAlex Cooper32:23

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett32:23

       The thing is, what you said also applies to relationships generally. This idea of, like, making sure from the jump that your visions are aligned.

   29. ACAlex Cooper32:30

       Oh, yeah. I also love that you said, you know, we wish we could have told ourselves. But then I'm also in life like, no, that was supposed to happen because now, when I went and signed my Spotify deal, you best believe I was like, "Who's around me? Do I own these trademarks? Do I own this IP? Do I own..." Like, everything that felt like I had not focused on in the beginning, that I was, like, kicking myself for, the second time around, I was like damn sure that I had, like, everything locked in. And I still even made, like, a couple mistakes, but like, I, I think that that's also just life of like, you're gonna have... You can try to be as prepared as you can. You're never going to be fully prepared. But having some ability to reflect on what you wish you had done differently or better or the same. There were some things that I was like, "I'm sticking exactly lat- that course." I think you just have to think about it and be cognizant of those steps, and I think sometimes you rush quickly. Like, that's like our world today. It's like, go, go, go, go. Like, take the new job. Don't take a minute to pause. That's where I think you get screwed over within yourself, of not recognizing, like, what's going to be different this time? You were miserable over there. How's it going to be different? So I wouldn't take it back. I just think, of course there's things I wish I had done differently, but then I did them differently for my next deal, and I am exponentially happier with the way that I'm handling business, who I'm surrounding myself with, um, how I'm hiring, um, you know, who touches the product. Like, there's everything now I've formulated, um, and I think a lot of people think like, "Oh, Spotify, like she has so many people around her." I have two or one people, one person in my office every day. Like, I've kept it pretty small because that's what I always wanted. I want to produce, I want to edit, I want to direct, I want to do as much as I can in a smart way. But you just have to know what you want, and then when you get away from it, then you really know what you want because you're like, "Wait, I want to go that way." And that's a great thing.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett34:48

       There's an interesting point here, though, about being a people pleaser. When a people pleaser strikes it big, it's hard to, like, put up those boundaries and start, like, saying what you want and what you need and having... 'Cause even the conversation we had a little bit a while ago about aligning and communicating what you want from the jump so that further down the line you don't mess things up and regret it requires a difficult conversation at the start.
6. 37:55 – 39:55

   The words you wished were said

   1. ACAlex Cooper37:55

      and, and that's something I have to live with and be okay with, but it's hard.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett38:00

      I remember someone wrote in, um, (clears throat) in the diary of a CO, this little book that I have in front of me, guests, when they leave, they write a question for the next guest. Someone wrote in this book, "If today were your last day and you had to have a 60-second conversation with someone in your life, um, what would you say to them and why?" And I was just wondering as you're saying all of this, this was clearly a really tumultuous, pivotal moment in your life, for better and for worse, in many respects.

   3. ACAlex Cooper38:23

      Mm-hmm.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett38:23

      Are there any words unsaid? If today were your last day and I, I slid you a phone and said you're gonna have a conversation with, with that person, your former partner, would you dial the number? Would you say anything?

   5. ACAlex Cooper38:38

      No, because I think, in a weird way, like, w- when there's time, I think both sides, and I acknowledge it, both sides have their own story that then just keeps going on. Like, I'm like, "What even is the reality anymore?" We both have such different storylines of everything that happened. If I was, like, forced to, I would just say, like, "I hope you're healthy and you're well," but I think we're both, like, in a beautiful way. I, I said this to someone recently, I was like, "It's so much better that we're both doing our own things." Like, that's the same thing in, like, romantic relationships. Like, I think a lot of times you try to keep making something work. It shouldn't be that difficult. It really shouldn't. If it's meant to work, it will be working. And I'm in the healthiest relationship of my life right now and I'm like, "This feels great. This is what it's supposed to feel like." So, no, I, I don't think that I would pick up the phone, 'cause I think we see things very differently, and that's okay. That's life. Like, that's the world. That's politics. That's religion. That's friendships ending. That's ... Marriage is ending. Like, you're just gonna be like, "I don't see it like you." And that's okay. Um, I think the internet's probably (laughs) a little bit more invested than

7. 39:55 – 42:58

   Call Her Daddy success

   1. ACAlex Cooper39:55

      even the two of us are, but yeah, I think that would be just, "I hope you're healthy."

   2. SBSteven Bartlett40:01

      Cool it, daddy. You tell me where the boundaries are here, but how big is this show? You know, it's difficult to, it's difficult to get a, uh, an idea of it-

   3. ACAlex Cooper40:09

      Yeah.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett40:09

      ... because it's kind of a black box the way it operates on Spotify, but what can you tell me about the size of the show? 'Cause I wanna go into what's made it successful, so give me the headline.

   5. ACAlex Cooper40:17

      Yeah. I would say that it is, um, the most listened to female podcast in the world.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett40:23

      Wow.

   7. ACAlex Cooper40:25

      Um, it's ... And it's exclusive at Spotify, so that is wild to me that the numbers, even being exclusive and you can only find it on one platform, that it's as big as it is. Um, it still doesn't really, like, register to me. (laughs) 'Cause when people say that, I'm like, "Podcasting's weird." Like, I don't, I don't, like, I'm not a singer seeing everyone in the audience. Like, I just, like, talk, and then I go and eat a sandwich and play with my dogs and go to sleep. Like, sometimes it doesn't register, but the success of this show is wild to me, because when we first released our first three episodes with Barstool Sports, it went number two right underneath Joe Rogan. And I think every podcast, if it has, like, a lot of traction, like, the algorithm works where, like, if you have immediate engagement of, like, new followers y- a lot of people are gonna hit up in the top 10. But then by week three and then week four and then week 10 and then week 20, it was constantly just sitting right under Rogan. And then I remember, like, I think it was maybe our tenth week or something, it went past Rogan, then we were back to second. And it was like, "Whoa," (laughs) that wasn't, that wasn't the plan. Like, of pl- of course the plan is to get big, but I just remember, um, I remember Erica Nardini, who's the CEO at Barstool, came in and was like, "Just so you know, like, girls, your episode, um, is, like, getting the same numbers as our biggest show at Barstool," uh, PMT or ... Yeah. And I was like, "Really?" Like, "That's so cool." Like, I, I, we didn't have, like, a concept I don't think yet, so it went viral so fast. And again, that goes back to, like, there was no plan. Like, I knew in my mind, like, I love doing this, but, like, there was no plan. I didn't even wanna be a podcaster. Like, I wanted to direct films and, and TV shows and ... So then after that, the show only continued to grow, and it still doesn't feel real. Like, I think the craziest thing was when I signed my Spotify deal, it was very exciting for me that Spotify looked at me and was like-We really respect what you did in the past, but pitch us what's the future, 'cause that's why we're signing you.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett42:44

      Knowing a little bit about Spotify and the numbers in the podcasting game, I- I know you must be getting hundreds of millions of downloads and streams a month.

   9. ACAlex Cooper42:56

      It's wild.

8. 42:58 – 47:59

   What made it the no1 female podcast?

   1. ACAlex Cooper42:58

      (laughs)

   2. SBSteven Bartlett42:58

      (laughs)

   3. ACAlex Cooper43:00

      Like, don't tell me that 'cause like, it's like, "What?" It's crazy.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett43:04

      Why... L- uh, the most listened to female podcast in the world, hundreds of millions of downloads every month. There's millions of podcasts out there. I- uh, there's loads of numbers knocking around. I read one recently that said there's almost three million podcasts. Why yours?

   5. ACAlex Cooper43:25

      (sighs)

   6. SBSteven Bartlett43:25

      Why- why you and why yours? You must have, like, slowly over time, which is kind of what we've tried to do, looked back and tried to figure it out.

   7. ACAlex Cooper43:31

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett43:32

      Like, what's the subtle and obvious things that have made you be so successful?

   9. ACAlex Cooper43:40

      I think truly there is, and like, I'm obviously b- being biased, but I don't think that anyone has the relationship they have with their audience the way that I do. I think when you start a show talking about sex, especially for women, and it's so taboo and there's so much shame, the amount of trust that that garnered for me and- between me and them was unmatched. Like, I- I- still to this day it shocks me that women come up to me in the street and will tell me about sexual abuse that they went through, and we've just met in 15 seconds. They're like, "Alex, I have to tell you, you got me out of this really toxic, abusive situation." All of a sudden, someone's coming to me being like, "I married someone because of y-" Like, it's like this relationship that I've built, I think is something that I will never be able to like, really articulate, but I know it's also coming from a place because I need them just as much they need me. I think sometimes in the creator world, like, it gets a little disconnected, because we also are trying to run businesses, right? You can't always do everything for your fans. Like, I can say I have been in huge meetings with a lot of executive people telling me what to do, and I'm like, "I don't want to do that 'cause the Daddy Gang won't connect to that." And there's a lot of money on the table, or there's brand deals, or there's all these things, and I have really been intentional about like, I care more about the content than what public-facing accolades we're gonna get. And I think because I focus so much on my relationship with my audience, it's then just garnered like a, oh, this shit just keeps getting bigger. And it is a huge show, but like, I can't explain it. Like, if I brought a Daddy Gang girl in here, she would be like, "Let me tell you our connection." Like, it really does feel like so crazy how connected we are, so I think that is one side of it. I do everything for my audience. I sacrifice my personal relationships. I have skipped out on huge family things to like, make sure. I'm like, "No, I need to give the Daddy Gang something amazing this week." I've never put out an episode of Call Her Daddy that I'm not proud of. Every week, I'm busting my ass to provide for them. And it's-

   10. SBSteven Bartlett46:21

       Do you delete episodes?

   11. ACAlex Cooper46:23

       No.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett46:24

       You've never deleted one episode?

   13. ACAlex Cooper46:27

       No.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett46:28

       Never recorded an episode and thought, "Ch..."

   15. ACAlex Cooper46:30

       Oh, I've deleted them, like not published them.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett46:32

       Yeah.

   17. ACAlex Cooper46:32

       But like, if I've published it, I've never deleted it.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett46:34

       Oh yeah. So you've- you've like, had a conversation with someone, and then-

   19. ACAlex Cooper46:37

       I've actually only had a conversation with one person that I've never released, just because I- they didn't want to be there. I think their publicist fucked them over. They didn't know what they were coming in for, and I respectfully was like, "This ain't it." But, um, oh, I've recorded like so many solo episodes that I've never pressed upload on, that eventually maybe I'll like put together and be like, "These were my thoughts back then." But no, I've never- I've never deleted an episode that I've published, but oh my God, are you kidding? My- my catalog of things I haven't pressed upload on, it's like a whole nother 100 episodes. Um, but I, and then I think the other side of why it has been successful is like, it just goes back to, without sounding like a egomaniac, like, I am obsessed with this. It- it, I can't explain it. Like, every single week, I'm like completely fixated on how I'm gonna innovate, make it better, make it special. So I think naturally, like, there are people that got into this industry that actually didn't really intend for it, and there's like producers handing them scripts and being like, "Sit down and talk." Like, I'm so obsessed and passionate about this that I do think that translates in how innovative the show has been, and just like the growth, because I love it, and I love producing content. So it's been really

9. 47:59 – 55:55

   What's the hidden cost?

   1. ACAlex Cooper47:59

      easy for me in that regard. Like, I've never had a doubt in my mind that this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett48:05

      You touched a little bit there on the cost though, that people don't see, the sacrifice.

   3. ACAlex Cooper48:08

      Mm-hmm.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett48:09

      Families, relationships, all these other things. Part of the reason I started this show actually was to shed a- shed more of a light on the cost of like, being a CEO.

   5. ACAlex Cooper48:18

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett48:18

      Because it's very glamorized. Everyone wants to do it, but then I think providing balance allows people to understand if it's actually-

   7. ACAlex Cooper48:23

      Hm.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett48:23

      ... the right choice for them, away from the accolades and the followers and the clapping. Like, is this really the right choice for you?

   9. ACAlex Cooper48:28

      Mm-hmm.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett48:29

       So in your experience, what has been the material cost of your- your journey?

   11. ACAlex Cooper48:34

       I think something I've been really struggling with is, first of all, with regard to business, I'm...... Such a creative at heart that business wise, I'm really trying to work on recognizing, like, this has gotten so big, I need to be in these meetings. I need to be, like, I need to be interacting with people on the business end of things. And like, my boyfriend always jokes. He's like, "You're 99.9% creative all times. Like, you need to dial it at least 10% to business, Alex." And I'm like, "I don't need to answer the email. I'm j- I'm just gonna sit in the edit room and make the episode." So, I think I've really... It's been a little bit of a challenge, like hiring people, personalities coming in, figuring out how to balance being the talent, the executive producer, and the CEO, and the owner of a company is like (exhales sharply) . Like, it's- it's a little... It almost, like, contradicts itself, like things that I should be doing as the talent, the CEO shouldn't be doing. Like, the conversations I'm having as the talent, I shouldn't be having, but I'm the CEO, so I'm like, "I have to fire you." And then it's like, "Well, are you gonna go tweet about me?" You- you know what I'm... It's, like, so strange, where most companies, like, this, that person wouldn't be a public-facing person, so, like... And then my people-pleasing tendencies, I've kept employees longer because I'm like, "I can't fire this person even though they're not doing their job because, like, I don't want them to go online and say I'm a bitch," and then my therapist is like, "Alex, sweetie." (laughs) "If you're paying someone and they're not doing their job, you have to fire them," but I'm like... I- i- so it's like I've struggled a lot with, like, who I'm having around me. Then on the personal side of things, I don't wanna say the word exploiting, but I'm just gonna say it then I'm gonna take it right back, but, like, exploiting my life for four years. There is a cost of, like... I don't expect a lot of people to relate to it. It's really weird that I've talked about my sex life and my breakups and my heartbreak and friend breakups and family issues and trauma and all the things you can possibly imagine. Like, that's not normal to be that open about it on the internet. So, naturally, I think there's, like, a, "What's next?" Like, always trying to one-up yourself, and that can be really detrimental. And I think when I look back at the early days of Call Her Daddy, like, I'm embarrassed by some of the things that I said. Not that I'm embarrassed by the product, I think it was great, but there are some things that I was like, "Why did I say that on the internet?" Like, that was mean or that was... But it was all, like, I don't think people understand, like, we were being rewarded by how much crazier it was. Every week it was like, if you get crazier, the views go up, the clicks keep coming. So it was like this really diabolical feeling in your head where it's like, "Morally, I don't know if I should be saying this, but it just keeps bigger, getting bigger the more that we keep saying wild shit." And I think in the beginning, we had a handle on it, and then when we hit, like, episodes 50, 60, it was like throwing shit at the wall, because people just wanted to see us, like, dance. It was like, "Do something crazy again this week." And that's why I have some empathy for creators that have taken it too far, where you see that line as like they push it, they push it, everyone loves right when you're teetering the line. They're like, "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah." The minute you cross the line, even though they've been encouraging you to go farther, farther and you fall off, "What's wrong with you? What, d- d- you're disgusting. Like, that's awful. You're a bad person." So it's like, it's a very, very fucked up (laughs) industry to be a part of, 'cause, like, you're rewarded for the chaos, but if it's too chaos, then you're out. Um.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett52:36

       Has it ever crossed your mind, being someone who publishes a lot of content and does it frequently at a certain cadence, you have a community that are expecting it from you, that you probably can't stop to some degree? Or the pressure-

   13. ACAlex Cooper52:51

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett52:52

       ... that st- that exists to keep you going, keep publishing, keep going, keep going, keep going-

   15. ACAlex Cooper52:58

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett52:58

       ... means that there is in some respects, you could say, a bit of a lack of freedom. Like, you couldn't take six months off, right?

   17. ACAlex Cooper53:05

       I can't even take two weeks off. I, yeah, that has crossed (laughs) my mind. There's... There's some days where, like, the... the unforgivingness of this industry gets a little... It- it- it freaks me out a little bit, because I've found myself, like I just said, being like, "Wait, why did I do that?" 'Cause I'm so deep in it and I'm so content-focused that I'm pulling myself out. I'm like, "The Alex with her family and her partner and her, her real life, like, that's not who I am." I think, um, I actually think that's why I kinda pivoted my show for a minute to interviews. I needed, like, a break because I was like, first of all, you don't need to keep hearing me talking. Like, let's give me a break. Like, you're all sick of me. Um, I wanted to just start to talk to other people for a second, because doing these solo episodes every single week, I needed something new and unique to say, and that can cause you to lose your fucking mind. Like, I don't think people understand, like, an hour of content, I was talking to my boyfriend about this, he's like, "I make hour-and-a-half movies that we work on for nine months." Like, every week you have an hour to fill, and if it's just you talking, it- it's- it's, like, almost (laughs) insane. Like, you're gonna start doing things. You're gonna start putting yourself in situations to get content to talk about things, and I started to be like, "This is unhealthy."There's other ways to entertain people and other ways to feel creatively stimulated, and that's when I just started to talk to other people. And, and then interviewing, I think, gave me, like, a real sense of fulfillment because it goes back to my childhood. Like, I love connecting with people. I love what we're doing right now. This is, like, my jam. This is like, I could... Let's go for five hours.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett55:11

       (laughs)

   19. ACAlex Cooper55:11

       Every time I do a podcast, people are like, "That was the longest podcast we've ever done."

   20. SBSteven Bartlett55:14

       (laughs)

   21. ACAlex Cooper55:14

       I'm like, "I can't stop talking," because I love connecting with people, I love discussing topics, um, and right now that's what I'm doing on my show. And again, like I said, who knows? Maybe it will change in a year. But yeah, it's a, it's a weird feeling to be like, "Where is the end mark?" I don't think there is an end mark for me because maybe it will look different, but I- aside from all of, like, the drama of what we're talking about, it goes back to me being like, "I love this shit, and so are there boundaries I can set with myself in order to make it healthier?" Just like any person with any

10. 55:55 – 58:41

    Spotify $60M Deal

    1. ACAlex Cooper55:55

       job, like, you can get wrapped up in that and it's not healthy.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett56:00

       A lot has been written about the financial, um, deal you did with Spotify. A lot of people talk a l- about that. What, what impact did that have, if any, on your life? There's- there's $60 million numbers floating around everywhere. You don't have to confirm or deny, but, um, did, did that change things in any material way?

    3. ACAlex Cooper56:17

       It was the craziest, truly the craziest feeling that I've- I still can't really articulate of, like, I never started this for money. I'm really fortunate how much my parents were like, "Keep it real. Keep it normal." Like, what is all this if you're about to be like this... Like w- like none of this matters. It could all be gone tomorrow. And so I've been fortunate to be raised by people that, like, I just... It hasn't really affected me. I feel like the same person that I was in Pennsylvania. Definitely a little bit more progressed in, like, how I feel about myself and, and I feel smarter and, you know, more whole as a human being. But, like, that number to m- all it did to me was solidify that the brand that I built deserves to be where it is, and I haven't really let it get to my head. I'll let you know if it does.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett57:08

       (laughs)

    5. ACAlex Cooper57:08

       But, like, for right now, I feel like... Everyone keeps asking me, like, "How did it change your life?" It, for the rest of my life, will change my life and my kids' lives, and, like, I get that. But in the immediate, I'm still working the way I always work. I hunch over at my computer. I, I, like, I have the same keyboards. Like, people are like, "How do you not have, like, the keyboard with all the..." Like, there's certain, like, tech things that I could be doing. I don't give a shit. I wanna do exactly what I've always been doing and keeping it real and tight to myself, and, like, a little janky. Like, I feel like it, like, makes me feel like I'm still myself and it hasn't expanded in a way that maybe people think it has. And so I'm, I'm proud of myself that I've kind of stayed really grounded in who I am and why I started this, and I'm gonna continue to always be cognizant of, like, why I started this, who I am, and none of this shit actually matters. Like, who gives a shit about a purse? Like, you could lose it. Like, I wanna have real relationships. I wanna be close with my family. I wanna be respectful of people I'm around. I want people to like me. I wanna make people happy. I want them to make me happy. I wanna have fulfilling dynamics in my life. That is, like, the richest thing, I think, about me right now is, like, I've worked a lot on my relationships and I am finally, I can say, at a point where, like, I'm happy in my life. And that, to me, like, there's no number you can put on that. I don't give a shit if they took that away from me tomorrow. Well, Spotify don't, obviously, but-

    6. SBSteven Bartlett58:39

       (laughs)

    7. ACAlex Cooper58:39

       ... like, you know what I mean? I'm like, it's, it's amazing,

11. 58:41 – 1:04:35

    Did men feel emasculated with your success?

    1. ACAlex Cooper58:41

       but I still feel like the same person back in Pennsylvania.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett58:47

       Is there... This is a conversation I've had previously with one of the very successful, um, women on my podcast who built an exceptional business. Is there a unique dynamic when a woman becomes incredibly successful, as you have, in terms of her relationships with a man? Some of my girlfriends have often said to me that they think men can often feel emasculated a little bit-

    3. ACAlex Cooper59:10

       Mm-hmm.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett59:10

       ... when their partner is incredibly successful.

    5. ACAlex Cooper59:12

       Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, I remember the f- when I started Call Her Daddy, um, I was having a really hard time with dating just because as the show got bigger, yeah, men were so insecure. Um, but also that may have been because I was the next morning talking about them on the show being like-

    6. SBSteven Bartlett59:36

       (laughs)

    7. ACAlex Cooper59:36

       ... "This is what his whatever looks like." I'm like, "Okay." But no, I, I really, um, struggled to find genuine relationships of... Like, again, I still feel like the, like, awkward girl that, like, still at times looks in the mirror and I'm, like, hyper-fixating on certain things about myself. Like, I'm still insecure. So like, yes, I'm the Call Her Daddy girl, but I'm also Alex from Newtown, Pennsylvania that was bullied and awkward and insecure and, like, hated everything about herself. So, like, I always wanted them to know that version of me that's worked on myself to have self-love, to respect myself. Like, that version is who I want them to love, but you also have to love my job and respect it and, and appreciate that this is my passion. My partner now, I remember meeting him and I was like, "Oh, he's the one," because he's so successful in his own right and the amount of times that he's been like, "You could stop all this tomorrow, I would love you, but you are so talented, it's like the hottest thing about you. Like, when you start talking about your job, I, like, melt for you because you're so engaged and passionate and excited and I love how passionate you are. It makes me so happy to be your partner that I can watch you live out your dreams." And...I was like, "Okay, you passed the test." Like, but-

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:03

       (laughs)

    9. ACAlex Cooper1:01:03

       But it's hard. Like, I think if you're in a relationship, it's not to say that you ... There's gonna be moments where your partner's down, you're up, financially, um, where they're at in their career, their status. Like, if you just got a promotion, your partner just got fired, like, that's gonna happen. But overall, respect was a huge thing for me, where this means more to me than anything, and I need someone that can respect that, like, I'm gonna choose, a lot of times, my career in moments, and I need you right now to ride with me on this wave of, like, maybe in 10 years, it's not gonna be the same. And my partner, like, was the- this is the first partner I've ever had that is ch- my biggest cheerleader, is, you know, we're potentially gonna do some stuff, um, work-wise together. And he's like, "You be the face of it. You do e- like, I don't, like, this is you. Like, this is, like, all you." And it's so refreshing to have someone have such an intact ego that when we're going to bed at night it's like, "How was your day? How was your day?" All the successes, all the issues, failures, ups and downs, we're like, "We'll get through it together." And that is ... I'm like ... It's allowed me to probably be ten times better at my job because I have a secure partner. I have a really great relationship. And now when I'm showing up to work, I'm feeling even more supported than just being supported by myself and my immediate family.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:31

        If your partner wasn't successful in his own right, do you think it would work?

    11. ACAlex Cooper1:02:39

        I think you have to define success because ... I actually had this conversation with him the other day. It's not about money. It's about I couldn't be with someone that wasn't passionate about something, that didn't have their own sense of identity, their own sense of drive and want. That doesn't work for me 'cause I'm a very passionate person, where, like, I, I've been on dates with guys where I'm like, "I get it." Like, y- y- th- you're, you don't feel what I'm ... I'm, like, electric when I talk about my job, and I think that's okay. I think you, I need someone that's equally has something in their life that they feel so driven and pulled by that it allows two individuals to come and make a great couple, but we got our own things. And so I don't give a shit if he's not making money. If it's every single day, he's waking up working for a nonprofit and is like, "I'm gonna change the world," go off. Absolutely. Love that. It's ... Success to me is more that, like, you're successful in working towards something that you're so passionate about that it does consume you at times. 'Cause I'm a workaholic, (laughs) and, like, I can't have someone that's like, "I just wanna chill." Like, I ... And there's nothing wrong with that. I'm just a really aggressive motherfucker, and I'm like, "I need to be working, and I wanna be fulfilled, and I am fulfilled by my job." So it doesn't have to be your job, but you have to be successful in life of what you're aiming towards achieving. You have to have some type of achievement, some type of passion, some type of purpose, or else we're not gonna have too much to talk about-

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:21

        (laughs)

    13. ACAlex Cooper1:04:21

        ... 'cause I can't shut up. So, like ... (laughs)

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:23

        (laughs)

    15. ACAlex Cooper1:04:24

        Yeah. Yeah. Even if it's like you're a teacher. You're a teacher, and you love what you're doing. You're changing these kids' lives. You're showing up ev- amazing. It just, you have to, you have to have something,

12. 1:04:35 – 1:07:45

    What pain do you enjoy having?

    1. ACAlex Cooper1:04:35

       'cause I've clearly got something, and it's my baby, and it's Call Her Daddy.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:39

       You've clearly got something. That's for sure. I told you a second ago that guests, when they leave here, they write a question in the diary. What we did, because the conversations we have here tend to lean more towards the vulnerable side of-

    3. ACAlex Cooper1:04:51

       Mm-hmm.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:52

       ... of people, is we turn them into these little cards so you can play at home. And no one's ever seen the ques- who's written the questions. They don't know who's written them, and they don't know what the questions are. But this box has a couple of questions, and I've taken about 60 of them out, but I've put, I've picked a couple for you.

    5. ACAlex Cooper1:05:04

       Okay.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:05

       So I'm gonna slide it across the table.

    7. ACAlex Cooper1:05:07

       All right, Steven. Here we go.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:09

       And I would like you to pick a question out of the, the conversation cards. Okay.

    9. ACAlex Cooper1:05:14

       Okay.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:14

        I might ask you to pick more than one, so let's see how we get on.

    11. ACAlex Cooper1:05:16

        Okay.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:18

        Whichever one calls you.

    13. ACAlex Cooper1:05:19

        Oh, my God. I have two. Okay. What pain do you enjoy having? What? Um, oh, my God.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:39

        We don't wanna be demonetized on YouTube, so just, just (laughs) ...

    15. ACAlex Cooper1:05:41

        Oh, I'm gonna, oh, right YouTube. Oh, I've cursed too many times.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:43

        No, no, n-

    17. ACAlex Cooper1:05:44

        Gotta bleep that out.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:44

        No, I know. It's fine.

    19. ACAlex Cooper1:05:45

        Gotta bleep that out.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:45

        The cursing's fine. The cursing's fine. I mean, I'm-

    21. ACAlex Cooper1:05:47

        Mm-hmm.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:48

        I'm concerned about what you're actually saying. (laughs)

    23. ACAlex Cooper1:05:49

        Oh, oh, yeah, oh, like, the Call Her Daddy girl's about to tell me some of the pain she's experienced.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:53

        (laughs)

    25. ACAlex Cooper1:05:53

        No, no, no. I'm gonna get deeper than that, no pun intended.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:58

        (laughs)

    27. ACAlex Cooper1:05:58

        (laughs) Um, but ... YouTube. What pain do you enjoy having? I think I've enjoyed the pain of experiencing true love. I thought I was in love in the past. I was in certain variations of whatever I could be capable of giving for love and r- receiving for love. But recently, I've really experienced the painful moments of loving someone, going through grief, loss, death with them, going through moments of disconnect, moments of not knowing if it was gonna work out. Like, I've felt such pain in moments, but also such happiness and joy that completely overrides the pain. But I don't think I've ever experienced it the way that I have with this partner in the beginning, that it, it was painful to get to where we are now. Now, I don't experience that pain with my partner, but, like, it was-Don't curse. Um-

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:09

        You can curse.

    29. ACAlex Cooper1:07:09

        It was a motherfucker in the beginning-

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:11

        (laughs)
13. 1:07:45 – 1:10:19

    Do you think your younger self would be proud?

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:45

       London today, so we've-

    2. ACAlex Cooper1:07:46

       (laughs) Okay, okay. You've got a flight.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:48

       (laughs)

    4. ACAlex Cooper1:07:48

       You've got a flight.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:48

       No, I'm joking.

    6. ACAlex Cooper1:07:48

       Um, oh, "Do you think your younger self would be proud/look up to you now?" Yeah. Yeah. I do, which is so crazy. If anything, I wish I could've shown my younger self in those really, really dark moments, like, "Bitch, you got this." Like, "Look what you're about to do." Like, "Just wait. Hang in there." I think I would be so proud of myself because I've stayed honest with myself. I've stayed loyal to what I've wanted, and I've, I've gone for it. I've taken a lot of risks, and I've put myself out there, which was not something I liked to do when I was younger, so I think my younger self would be like, "Damn, we did it."

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:38

       That phone that I proverbially slid you earlier on, I said to call your, your ex-business partner if you had 30 seconds.

    8. ACAlex Cooper1:08:44

       Mm-hmm.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:44

       If I slid you that phone now, and I said, "You can have a conversation with 8-, 10-, 12-year-old Alex Cooper, and you can say anything to her, and you've got 60 seconds to say it to her." Slide you the phone, you call her. What would you say?

    10. ACAlex Cooper1:09:02

        I know right now it feels like there is no getting out of the pain. I know you feel so alone. You feel unseen. You feel unloved. You feel unworthy. But I promise you, every single thing you're going through right now is gonna build you into the person that you're gonna be so proud to be in the future. And it's worth it. Hang in there. Ask for help. You don't have to do everything alone. And I love you.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:09:35

        In the Diary of a CEO, we have hundreds of questions that have been left by our guests, and we've put them on these cards. And on these cards, you have the question that's been left in the diary of a CEO, the name of the person who wrote the question, and if you turn it over, there's a QR code. If you scan that code, you can see which guest answered the question and watch the video of them answering it. Every time I've done this podcast and every time we've asked the kind of questions we ask here, I feel a tremendous sense of affinity to the guest. And our aim with these cards is that you can create that sense of connection through vulnerability at home with the people you love the most. And I have some good news for you. As of today, you can add your name to the waiting

14. 1:10:19 – 1:16:45

    What's next for you?

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:19

       list to be the first in line to get your own set of conversation cards at theconversationcards.com. What's next for you?

    2. ACAlex Cooper1:10:26

       Ooh. Um, a lot that is very exciting. Um-

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:34

       You're launching a business, aren't you?

    4. ACAlex Cooper1:10:35

       (laughs)

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:35

       You're partnering. I can tell. And is, is it a product? Is it cosme- What is it? (laughs)

    6. ACAlex Cooper1:10:40

       I think that-

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:42

       Tell me, Kylie Jenner. Tell me.

    8. ACAlex Cooper1:10:43

       No. (laughs)

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:43

       You're gonna be on Forbes. (laughs)

    10. ACAlex Cooper1:10:44

        I think it's gonna make a lot of sense. Um, it's, it's staying in my space. It's, I'm never gonna be like, "I'm coming out with a water."

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:55

        (laughs)

    12. ACAlex Cooper1:10:55

        Like, it, it's like I'm never gonna do something that people are like, "Oh, God, she sold out." It's, within the next month, I'll be launching something that is just going to completely elevate and expand the Call Her Daddy brand. Um, everything that I'm passionate about that I've talked about today, it's just expanding, and it's gonna allow Call Her Daddy to live in so many new places. And you're gonna be able to experience Call Her Daddy and that brand and other things that I'm passionate about. You're going to be able to consume it, and there's just gonna be a lot more that you're gonna be able to watch and see.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:36

        You've achieved so much, and it's funny 'cause when I was, you know, thinking about this new venture that you're gonna be launching, um, something you said earlier was really thought-provoking to me. You talked about how you've kind of just got to ask the world and executives and people that you're meeting for what you want, even if you don't really know it, what you want. That, like, idea of, like, demanding from people what you want. I think you said this when you spoke to Jay as well on his show.

    14. ACAlex Cooper1:11:59

        Mm-hmm.

    15. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:00

        Um, and it r- it rang, rang a bell in my head somewhere because I'd heard someone, a young member of my team say that they, in some respects, felt like they're kind of faking it, but they needed to fake it-

    16. ACAlex Cooper1:12:10

        Mm-hmm.

    17. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:10

        ... to get the value that they deserve.

    18. ACAlex Cooper1:12:12

        Mm-hmm.

    19. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:12

        And I reflect on that, and I think in the conversation with Jay you were talking about how women struggle with this more than men in business 'cause of, because of that sort of reluctance to, or whatever. How important do you think it is for people listening now that look up to you for them to fake it before they make it or to, you know, like, demand from the world what they want, even if they-

    20. ACAlex Cooper1:12:30

        Yeah.

    21. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:30

        ... don't feel like they deserve it?

    22. ACAlex Cooper1:12:32

        I think it's everything because I don't want you to be disingenuous with yourself, but I also want you to realize, like, it, confidence is a word that feels so like, "Ugh, just be confident." It is so hard to be confident. You can be confident in certain aspects of your life and very unconfident in others. You can be confident in your friendships, but when you walk into work you're so unconfident or the complete opposite. I would say with business, I've learned, like, if you know what you want, that is something you should be able to locate. What do you want? What do you...... or what do you at least think you want? What makes you happy? What's, what is a goal you can at least put on the map? 'Cause if not, then, like, take a little minute for yourself. Like, come up with something. Then when you're walking into these rooms, you can allow that to kind of be your compass. I know there's so many things for Call Her Daddy that I've wanted to do for so long, and I know that my audience knows, like, I have kept Call Her Daddy in this bubble, and it's almost, like, about to burst. Like, I've just stayed with the podcast, I have my merch, but, like, I don't do much. I don't really do anything other than it. So, I think when I think about expanding, in my mind, it needs to be so perfect, but also I'm like, "But there's so many opportunities. What do I wanna do?" You don't actually need to know exactly, like, the, into the weeds of it. Start having conversations leading with that compass of, "This is what I know I want," and ask people for help. Talk to people. Like, I've been having so many meetings that I'm like, "I hate meetings. Just let me go create." But I've been having so many meetings about what I'm about to be launching, and there's been people that are able to ask me questions that I wouldn't have been able to think about had I been at home thinking. So, it's like having a compass of what you know you are driving towards, and then opening it up for discussion around people that have complete different ideas and mindsets, and you will be able to find help. But sometimes I think we think we have to do it all on our own in business. Like, don't let anyone know what you're up to. It's not... There, no one can actually take that away from you 'cause whatever you're gonna do is gonna be unique to you. But I do think I had a hard time asking for help, and now finally I'm having meetings with people that are so brilliant, and they're allowing me to think past what my brain was only able to see, and now it's opened up a world. So, anyone in business, don't be afraid to even have, like, a, "Hey, can I pick your mind for, like, a little bit? Like, let's go to a coffee. I just have, like, some questions I wanna ask you." All of a sudden you're gonna leave there, and you're gonna either know more about what you wanna do, or it could've completely spun you in a different direction. Either way, you're gonna take something positive from it. But I think a lot of times in business, especially as women, it's like, "Be hush-hush." Like, "Don't let anyone know what you're doing." Like, I think that's, I think it's... Yes, of course, keep to, close to the chest of, like, an IP that you're working on that, like, someone can't steal and you haven't trademarked or something. But, like, open yourself up to other people helping you. You don't have to do it all on your own.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:34

        Directionally then, you're talking about-

    24. ACAlex Cooper1:15:36

        Mm-hmm.

    25. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:36

        ... the compass there. Directionally-

    26. ACAlex Cooper1:15:38

        Mm-hmm.

    27. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:38

        ... what does Alex Cooper want?

    28. ACAlex Cooper1:15:42

        I think I really am looking forward to doing what I always wanted to do, producing and directing. I didn't intend to be an on host talent, let me be so clear. I remember in college my professors were like, "You should be like a sports announcer." And I was like, "No." And, like, nothing against sports announcers, I just knew in my bones, I was like, "I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna..." Like, I always wanted to be behind the camera. Then it just so happened that I'm in front of it, and like, I'm like, "Oh, I do like it." But produce, I'm, like, producing myself as I'm talking right now. Like, I'm naturally more of a producer than just, like, a talent. So, I think what I want to be able to do is to explore past just the immediate producing of a podcast. What else can I produce?

    29. SBSteven Bartlett1:16:28

        Oh. Mm. Mm.

    30. ACAlex Cooper1:16:30

        (laughs)
15. 1:16:45 – 1:24:15

    Last guest’s question

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:16:45

       (laughs)

    2. ACAlex Cooper1:16:46

       (laughs) Chug the whole thing and keep drinking. What's your next question? (laughs)

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:16:50

       (laughs) My next question comes from the book. Let's see what has been left for you.

    4. ACAlex Cooper1:16:58

       Oh my God.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:16:58

       The guests never know who they're leaving it for. What is one thing in your life that is currently hindering your happiness, and what will you do to rectify it?

    6. ACAlex Cooper1:17:13

       This is really weird, but I actually was, I had something that was hindering my life a little bit, and my happiness, and I spent the whole past weekend just trying to figure out, like, how do I... Can I say this? Hmm. There was something that I was not... Someone in my life that was really bringing negativity to my life, and I've worked on boundaries with my therapist, and then my therapist's classic line is like, "You love to set a boundary, and you hate to maintain it." And I'm like, "Fuck." She's like, "You're so good at being like, 'Boundary,' and then a week later, I'm like, 'How's the boundary?' And you're like, 'It's gone.'" I'm like, "Oh God." So, I finally, for the first time, just kind of ended a relationship with, um, a friend. It was s- really just, like, negative and toxic, and it just was like, why is... I- I felt that, like, weight that you're like, "Oh my God. I'm waking up and thinking about this. Like, this is so negative in my life." And I, I was able to kind of put an end gracefully to a situation that clearly wasn't making either of us happy, and I was so proud of myself because, oh, trust me, I was, like, replaying the conversation, like, practicing in front of my boyfriend. Like, "How do I say this?" Like, confrontation, to me, I'd rather flip backwards and go into a different stratosphere than have confrontation. But I was proud of myself because I was feeling really, really icky about the situation, and I had a conversation that was kind of beautiful and ended a really toxic situation. Cheers. (laughs)

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:19:10

       Not easy. Not easy. Difficult conversations. You know, people ask me this question all the time because I'm a podcaster. They always say, and I'm sure you get asked this so often that you're fucking sick of it and you have a pre-written answer, but I, but I'm just personally interested. What, what to you now makes for a perfect interview on your show? Like, what are the core components-

    8. ACAlex Cooper1:19:29

       Hmm.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:19:29

       ... of just a really great Call Her Daddy interview? What are you looking for from the guest?

    10. ACAlex Cooper1:19:34

        I'm looking for them, first and foremost, to show up with an open mind. Um, I told you before this, I was like... (laughs) Someone I just recorded with was like... Everyone, in the morning before I came and filmed with you, was like, "Do you want a cocktail? Do you need a drink?" And the woman was like, "Why do I need a cocktail? Like, you're freaking me out." Like, I think Call Her Daddy has now set a standard of like, we're gonna go there, we're gonna have really open, honest conversations. So I think, I want people to come open-minded of, I'm not trying to exploit you or exploit your life. I'm actually, in long form, trying to get to know you as a whole human being, and that's why I really respect your show and you're so good at what you do, because you're just listening and y- you're trying to pivot with them to understand who they are and what makes them, them. So I think coming in open-minded is the first bit, because I think there's a lot online for Call Her Daddy that people are like, "Here we go." Like, "This is about to get wild." I think the second thing is someone that is willing to express things that maybe they're not even comfortable saying, or they haven't even fully thought out, because I feel like the show does a great job of holding someone in a space of like, "We'll work through it." Like, "Say it and then let's, like, backtrack." And, and I'm never gonna let someone say something that's wild and then they're like, "I didn't give context." Like, "We'll get the context." So I think someone that's willing to just speak very frankly and openly, I think sometimes, especially celebrities, have been burned so many times in media that they are really closed off, and I actually think it does a disservice to them because then they come off more rigid or, or more unlikable, or, l- you know, less authentic. And so I think my goal is always to have someone basically trust me, which is wild. I, they are meeting me usually for the first time ever when they sit down with me, and I think that I've been able somehow to gain this rapport with people in the first, like, two minutes before we actually start, where I think they feel like, "She's definitely not what I thought." I think when you meet me in person, it's very different than what you see online. I think people immediately soften and are like, "Oh, wait." Like, "This feels different than what I expected," and then I just ask that they trust me, that I'm, I'm really here to have a really exciting and interesting conversation, and I'm not (laughs) trying to ruin your life, and we... Let's see where it goes. Um, but most of the time when people then come and are vulnerable and open and are willing to go there, that's what makes the best episode. We're all going through most of the same shit, themes-wise, different levels, um, but the human emotion is the human emotion. I don't care if you're sitting in one country or the other or... It's all gonna be different, but it is all relatively similar that we can at least be like, "I can kind of connect to that. I can kind of connect to that." That's always the goal, is like, just speak and I'll do the job to wrap it in a bow to make sure that everyone feels somehow connected to this person.

Episode duration: 1:35:49