Barbara Corcoran: Turning $1,000 to $1Billion! | E204

Barbara Corcoran 0:00 What I would love to do is call someone into my office on Friday. I love firing people on Friday. Barbra Korbut in the house. (cheering)

Steven Bartlett 0:07 My next guest is one of the biggest names in real estate, a successful entrepreneur and star of a hit TV show. Now the Female Titan is getting some heat.

Barbara Corcoran 0:16 The minute a woman cries, you're giving away your power. Barbra is definitely over the top. If I wasn't dyslexic and I didn't have a hard time in school, I don't think I would have been successful. I think I had 22 jobs before I started my own business.

Steven Bartlett 0:29 Every person I meet is in real estate in New York. So how'd you become the best?

Barbara Corcoran 0:33 I was competing with the old boys' network, and they were asleep at the wheel. Nobody was thinking of new ideas in real estate. I would think of the greatest bullshit to create publicity. Did I manipulate them? I played my cards. Everything I've done in my life has been one long attempt to show the world that I'm not stupid.

Steven Bartlett 0:52 Ramon Simone.

Barbara Corcoran 0:53 He was my boyfriend at the time, and he offered to loan me $1,000 to start a business with him. He was my 51% business partner. He ran off with my secretary the seventh year we were in business. Yeah. He said, "You'll never succeed without me." You know, insult can really be a wonderful motivator. I knew I was gonna succeed. I had to, just because I had to show him that he was wrong.

Steven Bartlett 1:16 If you're driven by these unhealthy insecurities, you need to go and see a shrink.

Barbara Corcoran 1:21 I'm afraid to see a shrink.

Steven Bartlett 1:22 Why?

Barbara Corcoran 1:23 Why? Well, you ask good questions. Damn you. I had an issue. I felt...

Steven Bartlett 1:33 Before this episode starts, I have a small favor to ask from you. Two months ago, 74% of people that watch this channel didn't subscribe. We're now down to 69%. My goal is 50%. So if you've ever liked any of the videos we've posted, if you like this channel, can you do me a quick favor and hit the subscribe button? It helps this channel more than you know, and the bigger the channel gets, as you've seen, the bigger the guests get. Thank you, and enjoy this episode. (upbeat music)

Steven Bartlett 2:04 Barbra, we always start this conversation in the same place on this podcast because it's, it seems to be inescapable that the earliest context of our lives seems to shape us in a way that then changes the trajectory of who we are but also molds our character and really, like, hones our motivation. So my question for you to start is, what is that context from your earliest years that I need to understand to understand you?

Barbara Corcoran 2:29 Um, first off, I'd say competition. I ha- I was one of 10 children. We, of course, only had two parents to share. Uh, we were in very tight quarters, a two-bedroom, and just to get the attention of a parent w- was very hard to do. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 2:44 Mm-hmm.

Barbara Corcoran 2:44 So I think everyone in my family, certainly myself, uh, grew up very competitive, competitive for attention, uh, competitive to do something better than the next kid. And what also came with it, we grew up in a team, so we never knew what it was like to be alone. My idea of doing anything is "Who's with me? Who's with me?" And I think we all, I shouldn't speak to everyone in my family but I'll speak just for myself now, uh, I think I'm phenomenal at building a team, but it's second nature to me. It was so easy, uh, for me to think of who would go with who, who wouldn't go with who, who would get along, who had the right task. I could just size somebody up really fast and make a great, tight team. And I don't think that would've happened if I didn't grow up in a very crowded household, looking for more attention and competing.

Steven Bartlett 3:34 That ability to suss people out and understand them, you're saying that came from having nine siblings?

Barbara Corcoran 3:39 I certainly think it did, yeah, because, um, you see all kinds of dynamics when you have a crowded household. Um, so you know who the leaders are, on what category. You know who's gonna squeal to the parents. You know who's gonna shut up. You know who can do your work for you when you don't wanna do it yourself. You knew who, you know who you could snow. You get, you develop all the talents to get life in a form that you want it in, and you come out of the household at 18 years old, uh, with a lot of skills that other kids really haven't had the opportunity to do.

Steven Bartlett 4:12 What about the role of your, or sort of the influence of your mother and father?

Barbara Corcoran 4:15 Oh, they, um, I was... Thank God I had a mother and father who loved us. Um, I think that's the most important gift in life. It makes you, somewhere deep inside, secure if you feel loved. And I had two parents who loved me, you know? And, um, my mother was a phenomenal role model. I never saw her sleep. She worked 24/7. She just never sat down. I don't know even when she slept. I've never seen her go to bed, ever in my life. And my father worked two jobs his whole life to support us, so we were, uh, very much influenced, uh, by each parent as needing to work hard. I mean, we were all having jobs when we were 11 years old. I think I had 22 jobs before I started my own business, uh, because we were out working to contribute to the family. And think about the life skills you get outside a household when you're working young. I don't think anybody ever has any job, uh, where they didn't learn something about themselves. So even though when I went out into the workforce when I started my business at 23, I may have looked 23, but inside I felt like I was 53 based on experience.

Steven Bartlett 5:19 (laughs) Mm-hmm.

Barbara Corcoran 5:20 And so there was nothing naive about me at that point. I had had already an awful lot of experience.

Steven Bartlett 5:26 When I was reading through your story, I, I, I read that your father struggled with work and struggled with, I think, having a boss, it sounded like.

Barbara Corcoran 5:32 He certainly did, and he set up the pattern that we all share in my family. Nine out of the 10 kids have their own business. My father was a printing press foreman and a very good worker, uh, but he didn't like someone telling him what to do. So he would regularly come home, sit at the din- dinner table, and tell us he was fired from his job. It was a regular event. We all asked him to tell us the story, and it was the same story. He would basically (laughs) ... He said, "I, I told Mrs. Stein we're gonna shove the job where the sun don't shine." That was what... And we'd all clap for him and say, "Dad, our hero." And my mother of course would not even know how we were gonna be fed until he found a new job. Uh, but he was our hero, and so we grew up-Even though he never worked for himself, the fact of the matter is, is we knew we wanted to work for ourself. We didn't wanna work for a boss. And honestly, I never had a boss I liked, even though I had so many. And I'm sure they were perfectly fine people. But I didn't like the fact that I wasn't the boss. It was clear to me.

Steven Bartlett 6:32 He, um, your father drunk, drank sometimes.

Barbara Corcoran 6:35 Yes, he did drink sometimes. And, uh, I'll tell you how that played a role in our family. He was a social drinker. So, he was probably the best father in the world, played with us, was, our playmate, our ... We adored him, everything he did. Uh, but then when we went out to a party, which wasn't that often, a family party, he would drink too much and he would come back, and he was a different person. He was a gorilla. And we all feared him. Uh, what that does, uh, is it makes you very fond of control. When you're with a parent who drinks, I think as a child, you never really feel like you're in control of things 'cause you don't know when the lion might come out. And so, it made us insecure and very fond of control. And I'm a control freak. I like to control everything I do. And I credit my dad with that. I don't want any curveballs or surprises. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 7:29 Hmm. The way that he spoke to your mother sometimes, it seems, from reading throughout your story, and the person-

Barbara Corcoran 7:34 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 7:34 ... you went on to be, seemed to be pretty consequential to how you did respond to men who would talk down to you in your career.

Barbara Corcoran 7:44 Oh. God, you do your research. Good for you.

Steven Bartlett 7:46 (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 7:46 Really. That's a nuance, but good for you. Um, I'm at my best if a man talks down to me. I credit my father with that. Because I adored my mother so much, there was nothing to talk down to my mother about. But when he was drinking, he would talk down to my mother, and I hated him for it. And it scars you so deeply that I'll never get rid of that. So, if a man actually dismisses me or talks down to me, particularly in business, I'm at my best. It's like, "Oh, no, you're not going there." I get like this iron rod through my soul. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 8:23 Hmm.

Barbara Corcoran 8:23 Showing someone, uh, that they're wrong is probably not the best motivation, I gotta believe. Probably not a healthy way to be, and you probably need a shrink on that one. Uh, but it certainly works well in business, I think. It pushes you and makes sure that you make sure that things work out.

Steven Bartlett 8:40 I really resonate with that because, as I've talked about probably too much on this podcast, my, my mother and father had a very, um, loud way to communicate, to say the least.

Barbara Corcoran 8:50 What a lovely way of putting it. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 8:52 (laughs) I've become more and more like diplomatic with how I frame that. But yeah, a loud way of communicating, and I've, I learnt that as I s- s- stood there as a little kid and watched my mother shouting at my dad, when I got older, my response to being shouted at was the response I always wished I'd seen in my dad.

Barbara Corcoran 9:11 Oh.

Steven Bartlett 9:11 Which was like, "Run and don't take it."

Barbara Corcoran 9:13 Ah.

Steven Bartlett 9:14 So, when you were saying that, I was wondering if you could relate in the sense of when a man puts you down because, uh, you saw your mother be put down in such a way-

Barbara Corcoran 9:22 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 9:22 ... your response is to, "Pfft," like you must be-

Barbara Corcoran 9:24 Oh, brace up.

Steven Bartlett 9:25 Yeah.

Barbara Corcoran 9:26 Yeah. Every time, brace up.

Steven Bartlett 9:28 Yeah.

Barbara Corcoran 9:28 And most importantly, uh, prove his assessment of me wrong.

Steven Bartlett 9:33 Did your mother? How did she respond?

Barbara Corcoran 9:36 Uh, I have to actually think. I think my mother was so busy making sure my father was safe to his children that I think she was just making sure we were safe all the time, in those instances, you know? And it's kinda crazy. You know, you figure it out. I mean, the next morning, my dad would wake up and he, he was the most popular guy in the neighborhood, taking every kid in the neighborhood out baseball playing, teaching them how to play tennis. He did, he was everybody's favorite father. (laughs) And only the night before, my mother was hiding us, you know.

Steven Bartlett 10:09 Hmm.

Barbara Corcoran 10:10 So, it was kind of a odd dynamic.

Steven Bartlett 10:12 She was hiding you?

Barbara Corcoran 10:13 Well, hiding us 'cause she didn't want my father to, uh, have his wrath, uh, on any of his children, you know? So, she was protecting us. So, kinda separating us out, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 10:26 Wrath, that's a strong word.

Barbara Corcoran 10:28 Wrath is a strong word. Uh, I mean, wrath is, it could be, you know, just angry words can be so damaging. Uh, you know, nah, whatever. It's weird. You're making me feel sad. I guess you're supposed to, right? But it's so sad. You know, it's so sad, uh, addiction, uh, because it brings out the very worst in an individual. And the traits my dad had, you know, a wonderful father growing up, just wonderful. We couldn't hope for a better father. Um, that he was so good that you forgave him for the bad. You really did as a kid 'cause it's, "Oh, good Dad's back. Ooh, good Dad's back." Uh, but again, I said to you earlier, I think it leaves, uh, the scars of insecurity with children 'cause you don't know if you get the lady or the lion when the door, when the door opens, like, "Who we gonna get now?" (laughs) You know? So, it keeps you on edge.

Steven Bartlett 11:25 When we think about addiction, we-

Barbara Corcoran 11:27 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 11:27 ... we see it as like a manifestation of pain.

Barbara Corcoran 11:29 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 11:30 Or like a-

Barbara Corcoran 11:31 It is of sorts. Hmm.

Steven Bartlett 11:32 Well, is that, is that relevant to what you observed in your father in hindsight?

Barbara Corcoran 11:35 No, I think with my father, it was honestly, uh, entirely due, uh, to too much pressure on one man. Think about it. He worked two jobs. He washed trucks every night, through the night, 'cause he could wash them fast and sleep a little. Then he'd go to his day job in the morning. He had three children by the time he was 23. He had seven children by the time he was 30. And he was a workman, and he was supporting us, uh, trying to make us happy, trying to share his time with us as best as he could, which he really did a great job on. Um, I think it was just too much pressure for a young man, uh, of what he signed up for. I think it was hard. I mean, uh, it wasn't ever assured with us as children that we would necessarily get groceries.You know, so it- and he felt ashamed of that, like he should be the provider. Uh, but it didn't stop him from quitting the job the next week (laughs) when the boss told him what to do. And so, it's really a shame my dad didn't have his own business. I think he would've been phenomenal in his own business. All of his kids did except for one, and they're all hugely successful. So, I feel like he just didn't have the affordability of starting his own business, you know?

Steven Bartlett 12:49 What role did the lack of money in your household have on shaping your view on money?

Barbara Corcoran 12:57 Interesting enough, very little.

Steven Bartlett 12:59 Really?

Barbara Corcoran 12:59 Uh, what was great about my mother is she never worried about money. Now, here's a woman who should've worried about money, and my dad should've worried about money. But I remember when I- I had many junctures along the way where I thought I'd be going out of business at the 11th hour. I tried everything, didn't think I had every- any more angles to work where I could stay in business another month. And I remember, uh, when one of those dark times, my mother called up and she said, "You sound distracted." I said, "Well, honestly, Mom, I think I'm going out of business, and on Monday's sales meeting, I'm actually writing a speech to say goodbye and how thankful I am." And she said, "Don't worry about money. It's an awful waste of time." And you know, I stopped worrying (laughs) about money when she said it. I thought of a new idea, and it kept us in business another two months. Uh, my mother's attitude toward money was it was meant to be spent. Uh, you know, as a kid, I guess I would've liked to have a new coat versus get the hand-me-downs. You know, that's always better for a girl to feel like she looks pretty, okay. Uh, but, you know, we were ha- we were pretty much a happy bunch, and so money didn't weigh in so far as you're happy. And also, my parents never measured anyone by money. They never had a comment about who's rich, who's not rich, who has what. It was just not even on their radar. So, it was really about, uh, my mother's mantra, supported by my father when he was fine, was kindness. How kind can you be to the neighbor? What y- could you do for the lady down the street? And we all were raised on that, and as a result of it, we felt the satisfaction from helping out, even though we didn't have more money to help out, just doing nice things for people. And so, money was not really on the radar, honest to God. Yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 14:42 What ab- what about school? How

Steven Bartlett 14:44 was-

Barbara Corcoran 14:44 Oh, school sucked. School is tough on kids that can't learn. I was one of those kids, you know, myself and my two brothers. The other kids were A students, but we just couldn't read, we couldn't write, we couldn't learn. And what happens to a kid when you're in a- in a school situation is you judge yourself based on school grades. What else do you have? You- you- someone could say, "She's such a nice girl." Well, that might sound good, but if you're getting all Fs, you feel terrible. You just feel terrible. And so, um, your s- your sense of self, I think, is formed very much by how good a student you are, in all school systems. And it shouldn't be because it's just one kind of intelligence, of course, but it is that way when you're a student. You sum yourself up based on whether you could get good grades or not. It's as simple as that.

Steven Bartlett 15:33 Were you bullied in school?

Barbara Corcoran 15:34 No, not at all. I was too quiet to be bullied. You know, I was quiet and lovely, and that's what the Sisters of Charity always told my parents. "She's not very smart, but she's quiet, and she's lovely." Quiet and lovely, (laughs) I heard it my whole life, and I was. I never said a word 'cause I didn't have the confidence to say a word. I wasn't gonna speak up and be found out. And, uh, th- those aren't the kids that were bullied.

Steven Bartlett 15:58 The reason I asked about the- the question about being bullied-

Barbara Corcoran 16:01 Hmm.

Steven Bartlett 16:01 ... is because I- I- I know that you're dyslexic.

Barbara Corcoran 16:03 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 16:04 And often, especially in- in that day and age, we didn't understand dyslexia.

Barbara Corcoran 16:09 Mm.

Steven Bartlett 16:09 So, we just thought those kids were dumb.

Barbara Corcoran 16:11 Odd. Dumb. Hmm.

Steven Bartlett 16:12 Yeah. Did you ever feel that kind of criticism from your peers or your teachers?

Barbara Corcoran 16:19 From the teachers, yes. I had one teacher in third grade that really gave me a label that stuck with me till I got out of high school. She said to me, "If you don't learn to read, you'll always be stupid." And she said the word "stupid" with such disdain. That was the first time I really heard that word. Before that, no one told me I was stupid. Stupid? Stupid? That's what's wrong with me? I'm stupid? And that's when I got quiet. That's when I just shut up and never talked again in school 'cause I didn't wanna be called on to read out loud. I mean, for me, my idea of hell on Earth was being told to read out loud, which was typically how you learned to read those days. You go up and down the aisles, your turn to read. I mean, nothing was worse than me going, "Tha th- tha tha tha tha them," and all the kids laughing and snickering. Uh, so I wouldn't call that bully. I mean, they- I was a show. I was a show, so I guess I would've laughed if I was them too. Uh, but it's so painful when that happens because it takes your confidence and demolishes it. But thank God, thank God we all worked. Thank God I worked by 11 'cause every job I had, I did a great job. I used my mouth. I didn't have to write. I didn't have to read. I could do any job, and people always told my mother what a great worker I was, so I was proud. So, uh, you know what? I think in hindsight, if I wasn't dyslexic and I didn't have a hard time in school, I don't think I would have been successful, believe it or not, because I think everything I've done in my life has been one long attempt to show the world that I'm not stupid. So, I'm driven, uh, because I'm always- there's a piece of me that always thinks I might not be smart. I mean, I know it's bizarre 'cause I'm smart, but in an insecure situation, I doubt myself sometimes, but I've learned to replace the tape. I don't have Sister Stella Marie in my head anymore telling me I'm stupid. I have a tape of my own telling me I'm incredible.I'm beautiful. Boy, you could do this. This is nothing, you know? I've got that tape that I had to replace over the years. But let me tell you, it took me a lot of years, a lot of years, to... No, I can't say I totally replaced it, but mostly put a nail through its head. Uh, but it takes a lot to get over the damage done if your self-perception is a negative one from the get-go. 'Cause we all don't leave our childhoods behind so readily. They stay with us, I think.

Steven Bartlett 18:45 And you, you credit it there for your drive, that, that down-

Barbara Corcoran 18:48 Oh, absolutely.

Steven Bartlett 18:49 But also-

Barbara Corcoran 18:50 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 18:50 ... you said earlier, if you're driven by these kind of unhealthy insecurities, you need to, at some point, go and see a shrink.

Barbara Corcoran 18:59 I'm afraid to see a shrink.

Steven Bartlett 19:01 Why?

Barbara Corcoran 19:01 I'm afraid they'll straighten me out. And would I be successful then? (laughs) I stay a mile away. I know it's crazy. I've read a few books and self-analyzed. (laughs) But no, no, no. First of all, they're very expensive in New York, and then that way-

Steven Bartlett 19:14 (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 19:14 ... I'm too cheap to pay. (laughs) My shrink is working out. If I work out or if I weed my garden, I'm straightened out for the moment, okay? But that's the way it is.

Steven Bartlett 19:27 I, I, I ask for selfish reasons. I find myself at one point for the s- same sort of insecurities and feeling like I wasn't enough-

Barbara Corcoran 19:33 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 19:33 ... being very driven to, like, prove to the world that I was.

Barbara Corcoran 19:35 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 19:36 And at some point, that comes at the cost of, like, this other set of things which are important for happiness-

Barbara Corcoran 19:40 Mm.

Steven Bartlett 19:41 ... relationships and balance and whatever else.

Barbara Corcoran 19:43 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 19:44 So, when you said about some point you need to go see a shrink-

Barbara Corcoran 19:46 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 19:46 ... I get it, because at some point, you can be a bit too dragged by your pursuit to prove the world that you are enough, that you-

Barbara Corcoran 19:56 Of course it's too much.

Steven Bartlett 19:57 ... compromise a bunch of other things.

Barbara Corcoran 19:59 Of course you do. I mean, if you're strong in one arena, something's gotta give, right?

Steven Bartlett 20:03 What, what, what, what had to give for you?

Barbara Corcoran 20:06 Relaxing. I don't think I've ever relaxed in my life. Uh, but honestly, when I'm relaxed, uh, reading a book, it's fine for a half hour, and then I gotta get up and accomplish something. I'm very driven to accomplish, to see the difference I've made in the world, to an individual I just spoke to, to a business I've been involved in, uh, to a neighbor I've befriended-

Steven Bartlett 20:29 Why?

Barbara Corcoran 20:29 I've gotta, I've gotta s- Why? Because I wanna know for sure, without a doubt, that I haven't wasted a minute, and that my existence makes a difference.

Steven Bartlett 20:38 Why? What-

Barbara Corcoran 20:40 Uh, because I, I think it's important. Why? Well, you ask good questions. Damn you. Why? Uh, why is that? Because I don't want it to be a wasted life. You know, I'm just one of those that you get one shot at it, and I wanna see how much of an influence and how much of a difference I can make. I really do. I mean, so, I guess relaxing feels like wasting time. It doesn't mean that I can't have fun with friends. I have the most, uh, great circle of close friends that I have so much fun with. That's a priority in my life, and it was a priority in my business. Fun is number one in, in developing teams, I believe. But, um, in addition to that, I just, uh, I just have to be productive. I do need a shrink, don't I? Do you have one in the house?

Steven Bartlett 21:29 (laughs) No, but if you find one, send them my way.

Barbara Corcoran 21:30 Would they give me a courtesy hour? (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 21:33 (laughs) Courtesy hour. Trying to get a discount. Um, off you went into the world of work. As you said, you had some 20-

Barbara Corcoran 21:38 By the way, you would make a good shrink.

Steven Bartlett 21:40 Oh, the brilliance-

Barbara Corcoran 21:40 Can't we just switch gears a little and-

Steven Bartlett 21:42 (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 21:42 ... and you do me?

Steven Bartlett 21:43 You don't realize what's happening here. I'm actually using you as my shrink. That's why-

Barbara Corcoran 21:46 Oh, really? (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 21:47 Yeah. (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 21:47 I don't think so.

Steven Bartlett 21:48 Yeah. No, I ask questions that I genuinely care about, so b- and typically that means because I'm struggling with something, so-

Barbara Corcoran 21:53 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 21:54 So, that's why I was pursuing that avenue so diligently. Um, you had some

Steven Bartlett 21:58 22 or 23 jobs before you started your own business.

Barbara Corcoran 22:00 Yes, I did.

Steven Bartlett 22:01 D- jobs ev- from everything from being a receptionist to a waitress to, um, everything in between. We often look back at those jobs-

Barbara Corcoran 22:09 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 22:09 ... that didn't pay us a lot and that the world doesn't hold in high regard as-

Barbara Corcoran 22:13 Mm.

Steven Bartlett 22:14 Some people might think that they are a waste of time, or they were, like, necessary.

Barbara Corcoran 22:17 Oh, wow.

Steven Bartlett 22:19 What's your view on the, when you were a receptionist and a waitress, how, what role did that play in your overall success?

Barbara Corcoran 22:24 I think, uh, whether you have a menial job or an important job, it's what you're learning. I mean, I, there wasn't a job where I didn't learn a lot. For me, I would take any job, not based on pay, but Gee, what could I learn? What could I learn? Because that made you more valuable. I never really thought it made you more valuable to be paid more. But, hey, I haven't done this before. Let's see what this is about. And you learn skills. I think I learned more through my waitressing jobs, because I always had a few at once, you know? You could always get a waitress job behind a counter. I think I learned more about people waitressing than building my business, honest to God. You have to size someone up. Your territory is your counter. You have to make them happy. You wanna upsell them a little bit. Maybe you say, you know, you give the second cup of coffee for free, but how about a slice of cheesecake? It's really good today. You learn how to hustle. You learn how to be organized, how to get the containers in order, how to make sure they're filled when the customer steps out, how to get the, that p- (laughs) person something to drink while you're working on this person. I mean, I learned so much in every one of those jobs. And you know what's great about having a lot of jobs? You start to get a profile of what you're good at and what you're not. And I, in short order, after maybe seven or eight jobs, not that I knew what I was gonna do for a living, but I knew what I was good at. I knew I was good at getting along with people and making them smile. I could talk to somebody and make them happy. Absolutely. And I also knew that I was efficient. I could create a system in anything. I would see the diner counter all wrong, not running right, I would talk to the boss, say, "You know, if you did this with the maple syrup and changed the sugar," and I could, like an executive, I could rearrange the whole counters, you know, in an efficient manner. And I started learning that those were my two gifts, people and efficiency. And if you think about any business, those are really big ticket items. If you could choose people, motivate people, get along with people, make them get along with each other, plus create systems to grow a big business. I mean, the minute you have more than a half dozen people, you need systems. And my companies were always so well organized that it, they ran like-They just ran like a Swiss clock? Is that a good analogy? Everything was in its place. Nothing had to be duplicated. It was fast-forward. And so, I was able to build very quickly, which I had to do because we had big people in my market, and if I had built and replicated systems at a normal pace, I would never catch up to them. So, I had to do double, triple time. And what's your answer on that one? Systems. Systems get you moving forward, get you a, get, get a business like a machine, you know. And that was a gift I got from my menial jobs. Thank God I worked. Imagine if I hadn't worked and went out into the real world thinking I was dumb, that I couldn't do anything just 'cause I couldn't read or write. Thank God I learned I could be a lifeguard. I learned I could be a tent salesman. I could be Barbara Buttons calling for solicitations eight hours a day. I could be all those menial jobs, a hotdog salesman, sell more hotdogs than the next guy. I mean, I had confidence from every one of those jobs, like, "Look how cool I am." Maybe I wouldn't win respect by everybody, "Well, who cares about the hotdogs?" But in my book, I knew I sold more hotdogs than he sold on his, you know... So, so no, thank God for the jobs. You learn so much by trying different jobs on, you know. It's so important.

Steven Bartlett 25:52 At that age, if, if I'd asked you what you wanted, what your dream was, what would you have answered?

Barbara Corcoran 25:56 I wouldn't have answered the question. I wouldn't have answered the question. I had no idea. I would say, "I just wanna work." I just want to, quote, "work." It didn't make a difference what I was working at. I just knew that when I was working, I felt capable. That's all.

Steven Bartlett 26:11 And conversely then, what are you bad at? I think, as you've said, it's very important to know strengths-

Barbara Corcoran 26:16 Oh.

Steven Bartlett 26:16 ... but also weaknesses.

Barbara Corcoran 26:17 You know what I'm bad at? I'm bad at math, numbers. Terrible. Just terrible, really. I don't even understand... I n-... I took algebra four times, four times, two years in summer school. Never passed it. They finally just gave me the grade to go through (laughs) . Um, I'm very bad at math. I'm bad at legal. I'm bad at committee meetings. I'm bad at listening to a blowhard who just goes on and on, doesn't cut to the chase. I'm very bad at impatience. I wanna know what you want from me, and then you tell me how you got there. I don't wanna hear how you got there and then what do you want (laughs) . I always wanna cut to the chase, uh, so I'm impatient. Uh, I've learned to hide it 'cause you can't be so visibly impatient with people. But as long as they tell me what they want on the front end, I could hang in there for the long explanation after 'cause I've already concluded what I'm gonna do, you know?

Steven Bartlett 27:07 (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 27:07 Yeah. So that's what I'm bad at. But lucky for me, I've always surrounded myself with people who are opposite to me, you know. And by the way, I shouldn't really say I'm bad at numbers because I had a business partner, my 10% business partner, Esther, my whole life, I made her my partner. She was great at legal and finance, and she used to spend hours when we wanted to open one or two new offices doing the numbers to see if we could afford it. And I used to come into her office and say, "What do you think?" She says, "I don't think we should really do it." I said, "Well, let me tell you why we're gonna do it, 'cause we really need to beat the next guy." (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 27:41 (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 27:41 "And let me tell you, if we have $80,000 and the desk produces only 40, 42, it's gonna take us about nine months to actually meet our overhead, and we'll have to cut back on the advertising, and we'll have the managers work for free." And she'd say, "What?" And it worked every time. So I must have had a, a taste for numbers in that kind of a way. I could always see the picture on numbers, and I'd be right. Uh, which bugged the crap out of her 'cause she had all the numbers, you know (laughs) . But, um, yeah. But I'm not good at, um, adding up the numbers at all.

Steven Bartlett 28:14 A lot of people think, and I think it's really liberating to hear that, they probably exclude themself mentally a- of being a businessperson because they are bad at numbers.

Barbara Corcoran 28:22 Oh, gosh. I think numbers are the least important thing in business, by far. I look at all the entrepreneurs I've invested in Shark Tank. I am telling you, the most successful... I hope I'm not giving anybody a sh- uh, the short haul here, but the most successful are not good at numbers. They're exceptional at people. I think if you're great at people, and you have ambition, you have the two magic cards to succeed in business. You do. That's what it's about. People and ambition, the drive to get to the finish line. Yeah. Then you find a way. You hire the people you need. You borrow the people you need. You exchange your gift for their gift, part-time if you have to, to get what you need. But you always get what you need if you know what you need (laughs) . You know?

Steven Bartlett 29:10 (laughs) Talking about borrowing, you borrowed $1,000 off Ray.

Barbara Corcoran 29:13 Yeah, Ramon Simone, yep.

Steven Bartlett 29:15 Ramon Simone.

Barbara Corcoran 29:16 Nice name, huh?

Steven Bartlett 29:17 Ramon Simone, wow. Okay. And he was your boyfriend at the time?

Barbara Corcoran 29:20 He was my boyfriend. I met him at the diner. That was my last diner job. And he offered to loan me $1,000 to start a business within three months.

Steven Bartlett 29:28 Did you ask him for the money?

Barbara Corcoran 29:30 No. Uh-uh. He said, "You've got a great personality. You'd be great in real estate sales. Why don't you start a business?" And that's how it happened.

Steven Bartlett 29:38 Really?

Barbara Corcoran 29:39 Yeah. So he had a gift for seeing talent, obviously, you know.

Steven Bartlett 29:44 And then off you go. 24 years old, you started your own-

Barbara Corcoran 29:47 23, but let me-

Steven Bartlett 29:48 23.

Barbara Corcoran 29:48 Let me tell you something, thank God. At 23, you don't know what to be afraid of. Uh, you don't know what falling off a cliff's about, and at 23 and poor, you have nothing to lose. There was no risk involved. I could always get my diner job back or any waitress job or pool hand or... I had millions of jobs I could get. I wasn't afraid of being unemployed. So I figured, "What the heck? I'll try it. Let's see where it goes." However, what I didn't know, and when the light went on in my head, was I didn't know how much I would like being a boss. First day, I'm like, "I love this." Did I like real estate? Nah, I didn't really care about real estate. Did I like the people I was meeting there? All nice, but I had been meeting nice people my whole life. But I love the fact that I was in charge. And so I loved real estate. I loved the people. I loved the paint on the wall. I loved everything because I was the boss. I was bent- meant for being a boss. I felt so freed.... so free to dream and do whatever I wanted, and nobody could tell me what to do. It was just, it was the greatest gift of all, freedom, freedom. I'm getting juicy just talking about it.

Steven Bartlett 30:59 (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 31:01 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 31:03 That real estate company became very big. Am I right in thinking it became the, the biggest, um, real estate-

Barbara Corcoran 31:10 Residential firm in New York, yes.

Steven Bartlett 31:11 Became the-

Barbara Corcoran 31:11 Before I sold it, we were number one.

Steven Bartlett 31:13 The biggest residential-

Barbara Corcoran 31:15 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 31:15 ... real estate f- firm in New York?

Barbara Corcoran 31:16 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 31:18 Why? Because there's so many residential firms in New York. There's so many, like, real estate people, they're everywhere. I mean, every person I meet is in real estate in New York.

Barbara Corcoran 31:27 Oh.

Steven Bartlett 31:27 So, how'd you become the best?

Barbara Corcoran 31:29 Honestly, I think, uh, there's a lot of reasons how you succeed, right? But I think the major cards were, I was competing with the old boys' network, and they were asleep at the wheel. It's not that they didn't do good work, but you have to realize, real estate brokerage in New York when I was started, a- and I guess is somewhat the same, was controlled by rich guys who inherited the business from their father, or their grandfather before them. So, they were very important, very self-important, very well-educated, very, uh, good at what they did, uh, but they did the same old thing. They did it the same old way, and they also hired people like themselves. They were white, privileged, and they hired white, privileged women to work for them. That was their whole cast of characters. When I came in, I couldn't get those white, privileged women to work for me, 'cause I was a kid, I didn't know anything, and it was, it would... no status associated with it. We were a new kid in town. We had three people. Who was gonna work for me? I had to beg, bar, and steal to get anybody to work for me. And so, they were cocky. And the minute I smelled that they were cocky, which happened to me about the third year in business when I went to a large Real Estate Board of New York meeting, I, I was, I remember I went home, and I said, "I'm gonna beat these guys." And I knew it, because they were very cocky that they were in charge. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 32:52 And what weakness did that create?

Barbara Corcoran 32:54 A tremendous weakness. They're blind. It's like competing with blind people. Um, they were also rich enough not to want to lose money. When, uh, the market went south, which happens again and again in real estate, it's up/down market, they would not spend money. They would hold their money in and protect it. They would not take a chance because of the reputation. They would check, check what they were gonna do against a committee. I didn't have committees. They would check what they were gonna do against their attorneys. They had attorneys. They were all stop signs. I would think of an idea on a Tuesday and have it in the street by Wednesday. They would think of an idea on Tuesday, if they even thought of it, or if they listened to a good employee who had a good idea, which they tended not to do. It was always their ideas. But if they listened to that employee, they'd have to check it with the committee, work it up the line, talk to their dad, talk to the attorneys. I'm like, "Thank God, they're in quicksand." So, I think a big reason why I was able to succeed is because I competed against the norm of an old boy network. If I had to compete with other people like me, wanting to prove something, desperate to make a, a go of it, I would've had that hunger to compete with. These guys weren't hungry. They were well-fed and well-vacationed, and they liked it that way. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 34:06 One of the things I took from that is, um, whenever you're competing against, like, a big, complacent, slow incumbent-

Barbara Corcoran 34:14 Mm.

Steven Bartlett 34:15 ... being the opposite of the incumbent is the winning strategy. You were quick, 'cause you didn't have that bureaucracy, all the sign-off of lawyers.

Barbara Corcoran 34:21 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 34:21 You were, like, high-risk, you were agile, and you were naive.

Barbara Corcoran 34:26 Yeah. You know what else I had? Which isn't to be underestimated. I had a wonderful imagination. I would think of the greatest bullshit to create publicity every day of the week. I just would dream up some stupid stuff and give it to the papers or the, or the TV s- stations. I would churn out reports that I had no business churning out. But I could think of an idea a minute, and I would just throw it out there and see what happened. Uh, nobody was thinking of new ideas in real estate. It was about controlling the listing market and controlling the number of bodies working for you. That was the only game in town. Not how you did it or what differently you could do. Nobody even really was concerned about the customer or the sellers. Uh, they just wanted to know if they had a contact with them, 'cause it was a contact game. But I came into a different generation where contacts meant less in New York, as the waters of New York changed, and everybody started coming to New York, a- different nationalities and different colored, colors of people. Everything was changing. And these guys really thought it was, uh, not changed.

Steven Bartlett 35:32 Hmm.

Barbara Corcoran 35:32 You know? So, it was such an advantage to have a lot of ideas, and to have to have tattered soldiers, anybody you could get your hands on, and to make them believe they were as good as the fancy people. And my people believed they were as good. And you know what? They were as good, and they were better in the end, because they all hustled, and they all had something to prove. (laughs) You know, we were all the poor kids trying to make it, make it in New York, (laughs) you know? So, we were all driven, you know? We were soulmates, in a way.

Steven Bartlett 36:04 That company culture and that, like, philosophy, you're citing that as being really pivotal to, to why you were successful. Well, what, what does that mean, like, culture, and how do you go about creating that culture?

Barbara Corcoran 36:14 Ah, the main, the main card is having fun with your people. All right? I put fun before anything. I mean, I certainly wanted to drive sales hard, open new offices, hire new people, uh, nurture a great management system, all the things that go into any business. But more than that, I wanted to make sure everybody loved each other. And the way you get to break down barriers between people who all compete with each other... Remember, in sales, you like who you're working with, but you don't really totally like them, because they're after your market. So, you have friend enemies, really, in a way.

Steven Bartlett 36:46 (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 36:46 And so, I believe that you, uh, if you had enough fun with your people, it was a great equalizer. When people laugh together, they come up with new ideas. When people laugh together, they loosen up. I used to have people, uh, dress for my parties, or they couldn't come in. I would have them dress 1940s, 1950s. I had them cross-dress. Oh, what a rebellion at the kingdom. The straight guys, "I'm not cross-dressing for her." Of course they cross-dressed for me. I had a party where everybody dressed as a nun. "I'm not going as a nun." Of course they came as nu- Do you know how exciting it is to be in the Waldorf Astoria ballroom and see a thousand nuns at a party? It's-... a blast and so much fun. So, we would have picnics, parties. I would take the women, uh, spontaneously, "Hey, come with me. We're going downstairs to Barneys and buying you a new underwear." Why? Because it's so bizarre. And they all go down and pick out the most expensive underwear they could find. I mean, this bizarre stuff made them tell everybody who wasn't in the company, "Oh, God. Guess what we did?" It was an adventure. And sooner or later, what happened after about, I guess, maybe 10, 12 years, I didn't have to recruit anymore. Our reputation as being the best place to work started recruiting for us. My salespeople recruited for us, just by repeating stories that happened every day. And so, I do believe you create a great, imaginative culture if you could insist on giving as much attention to planning good fun. I don't mean a boring Christmas party where you drink. Nothing like that. Some bizarre means of having fun. Everybody doesn't have enough fun and they wanna stay with you. I had no turnover in my company. None. In a business that's loaded with turnover. Of course, I fire a third of my staff every year because they couldn't sell, but other than the f- ones that couldn't sell, no one ever left for another firm. They had too much fun at us. Why would they leave? For the same commission spread? I don't think so.

Steven Bartlett 38:40 (laughs) Five years in, um, to that business, to

Steven Bartlett 38:44 that venture, Ramon Simone runs off with your PA.

Barbara Corcoran 38:47 Yes. She was much prettier than I. 10 years younger. I don't blame him. In hindsight, I don't blame him. At the time, I didn't like it. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 38:55 (laughs) He's your, he was your boyfriend at the time?

Barbara Corcoran 38:58 He was my boyfriend at the time. He was my 51% business partner, 'cause he took 51%, he said, 'cause he was financing the firm, which is fair. I was the managing partner. I liked the way that sounded. Uh, yes, but, uh, he ran off with my business, with my secretary, uh, the seventh year we were in business. Yeah. That was shocking. I didn't expect that. But you know, those blows that happen to your ego seem the worst at the time, but it ta- doesn't take you long to realize what, why they happen and why they're the best things. I mean, if he didn't run off with her, I would've never started the Corcoran Group. I'd still be Corcoran-Simone, working with him. I mean, that got me off my butt to start my own company without his help, right away, because I was a scorned woman. And I couldn't stand seeing them throw kisses at each other during the work day. It drove me crazy. And so I left. I just left. We cut the company in half. At the time, we only had 14 people. He took seven, I took seven, and off I went. Thank God that happened. And then, he gave me those wonderful parting words. "You'll never succeed without me." Thank you, Ray. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 40:08 Did that drive you, those words for-

Barbara Corcoran 40:10 I was-

Steven Bartlett 40:10 ... the facility?

Barbara Corcoran 40:11 ... pissed. When he said that, I was like, vicious. I hated him for it. But I walked out the door hating him for it. I hated him for it the next month, the year after that, and the year after that, and then I started thanking him for it. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 40:25 Really?

Barbara Corcoran 40:26 Yeah. I realized it was a gift. You know, insult, uh, can really be a wonderful motivator. Um, with my entrepreneurs that I invest in on Shark Tank, I love it when I can find an in- an entrepreneur that had a horrible dad, had this go wrong or that go wrong, uh, because they're angry. They're angry and they have more to prove. I love an entrepreneur like that. I relate to them.

Steven Bartlett 40:52 That prejudice you, you experienced in, in that male-dominated industry-

Barbara Corcoran 40:56 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 40:56 Is it easier to manipulate people when they have a prejudice against you?

Barbara Corcoran 41:00 First of all, you have to realize, they didn't see me. I was invisible to them. They didn't take me seriously. Why would they take me seriously? Even the day I realized I was invisible, I realized I had an advantage. I said, "Nobody's watching me."

Steven Bartlett 41:13 Does that make them easy to manipulate, these men?

Barbara Corcoran 41:17 Well, I don't know if it meant I manipulated them-

Steven Bartlett 41:20 I don't think that was-

Barbara Corcoran 41:20 ... but it was easier to compete with them.

Steven Bartlett 41:22 'Cause the word manipulate is like a, it's like a dirty word.

Barbara Corcoran 41:26 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 41:26 But at the end of the day, if someone is s- thinking that you don't matter and they're like-

Barbara Corcoran 41:30 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 41:30 ... disrespecting you or they are sexist towards you-

Barbara Corcoran 41:33 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 41:33 ... their underestimation seems like an opportunity.

Barbara Corcoran 41:36 It's a great opportunity. Um, you know who was easy to manipulate though? Because when the business got large, we were more dependent on huge development sites where they had 3, 400 condos for sale. We'd have to get control of that building. And I was the salesman who got the control. I went out after the developers. Uh, the developers you could manipulate easily as a woman. They had all men working for them. It was a man's world, real estate. Uh, the developers, uh, didn't take me seriously at all, but I flirted, I cajoled, I wore short skirts, I dressed well in tight suits. I played my cards. I wore high heels even though my feet were killing me. Yeah, did I manipulate them? Of course I did. Did I tell them they looked handsome? They were all handsome. Did I tell them they were brilliant? "You're brilliant." They were all brilliant. Did I manipulate? Yes. I don't even think I'll go to heaven I- if you wanna call it manipulation (laughs) .

Steven Bartlett 42:30 (laughs) Um, and then your, y- their, your workforce. If I, if I spoke to one of your employees and said, "What's Barbara like to work with?" What do you imagine they would say to me?

Barbara Corcoran 42:40 I know what they would say, and you won't believe me.

Steven Bartlett 42:42 Okay.

Barbara Corcoran 42:42 They would say, "I love Barbara." She's perfect.

Steven Bartlett 42:44 Well, I actually spoke to your assistant.

Barbara Corcoran 42:46 Oh, you did?

Steven Bartlett 42:46 Mm-hmm.

Barbara Corcoran 42:46 Well, she's gonna lie.

Steven Bartlett 42:47 (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 42:49 Emily?

Steven Bartlett 42:50 Yeah. She said you were a nightmare. No, I'm joking. (laughs) I'm joking.

Barbara Corcoran 42:53 No, she wouldn't say that.

Steven Bartlett 42:54 I'm joking.

Barbara Corcoran 42:54 But you know, you have to ask, you have to realize who you're asking. Emily is an absolute angel on Earth.

Steven Bartlett 42:59 Mm-hmm.

Barbara Corcoran 42:59 I- she has never had a bad day. I don't... I, I wish I was her. She's incredible. So you can't ask her. You have to ask a son of a bitch who works for me.

Steven Bartlett 43:09 What would they say?

Barbara Corcoran 43:10 They would say, "We love Barbara." I'm telling you, and I deserve it. I don't mean to brag, but I am the best boss I've ever met, by far. And I don't think anyone could be a better boss than me, honest to God. And I think the root of being a good boss is from the very first day I was in business, I understood the cardinal rule, which is, I work for you, you don't work for me.And that's my attitude my entire life. What can I do for you? How can I make your job earlier, easier? What don't you like to do? What would you rather do? How could I be this for you? What, what else do, do you want? I, I shower my people with anything they need, selflessly. And you'd say, "Well, that doesn't put the boss ahead." It does, because as they get stronger and go up the rank, they carry me for a free ride along with them. That's how it goes. No, I do believe the key to being a big, a big boss, a growing boss, and a great boss, is really understand you work for who's working for you. It's as simple as that, you know. It's kind of like being a good mother, in a way. You, you're a slave to your kids. You just wanna please your children, you know.

Steven Bartlett 44:14 I've been thinking about something recently-

Barbara Corcoran 44:15 Right.

Steven Bartlett 44:15 ... about how, um, leadership isn't about being ... and this kind of sounds like it's wrong, but let me explain. Leadership isn't about being consistent with your people. Some people in your team will require a certain type of treatment to get the best out of them, and then some people in your team will require probably the opposite treatment to get the best out of them. Do, can you relate to that? Does that str- strike-

Barbara Corcoran 44:34 So we're ... Uh, can I tell you, it's a, a misnomer that you treat anyone like someone else. No, I was biased with every single person who worked with me. I would do different things for different people, based on their own need. I would just really size them up. What's gonna push this kid ahead? What's gonna make this person have confidence? What could I do to ... And I had a different formula for everyone. No, I think the key was, uh, knowing each individual and what floats their boat. What's important to them? What's gonna make them better? No, I was never even-handed, ever, with any of the people (laughs) I worked with, 'cause they were all individuals. And today more than ever, people really wanna be individuals. They wanna be treated as individuals. They, their interest first. You know, I, I meet a lot of my peers who complain that, uh, the modern day worker is, uh, wants to be promoted fast, wants their interests met. I'm like, well that's fine. I've always done that. You know, that's the right way to handle people, to get the best out of people. Yeah. No, that's the way to go. Uh, wherever that philosophy came from, they haven't created a big team, or they know better.

Steven Bartlett 45:41 What characteristic would I have to demonstrate working for you, that would make you fire me quickest?

Barbara Corcoran 45:48 Fire you?

Steven Bartlett 45:48 Yeah.

Barbara Corcoran 45:49 Attitude.

Steven Bartlett 45:50 Okay.

Barbara Corcoran 45:51 Absolutely. Uh, you know what happens is, as careful as I was to hire, and I control the hiring for probably the first 10 years of my business, until we got to 500 people and went past that. I couldn't do it anymore. I did some, but not a lot. Um, what I would love to do is call someone to my office on Friday. I love firing people on Friday. I would stop by someone's desk on a Wednesday and say, "Hey, would you have any time sometime on Friday?" They should've heard about the rumors. "Yes. What time's good for you? 2:00? I'll see you at 2:00." I couldn't wait till they came in to fire them. You know why? Because I picked out individuals who were negative, and my attitude toward the negative person was, they were ruining my good kids. 'Cause people who are negative have to have somebody else to be negative with them. They gotta talk to somebody. Ah, wah, wah, wah. Complain. Okay, I'm not talking about people who tell you what you're doing wrong. They're invaluable so that you can get better. I'm talking about chronic complainers and negative people. You gotta get rid of them. So, I learned very early, after firing one negative person, never tell them why you're firing them. Okay? Or you get in a rat's nest. "Why am I negative? Why am I ... " I go, "No, you just don't fit the company." "But why?" "I don't know. You just don't fit the company." (laughs) Maybe that's a little mean, but I never carried a negative person for more than a couple of months. Sometimes they're undercover at first, but eventually they come out like, "Hey, do you have any time on Friday?"

Steven Bartlett 47:20 (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 47:23 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 47:23 If you ever ask me for a meeting on a Friday, I ... I'm sorry, Barbara-

Barbara Corcoran 47:26 Don't come.

Steven Bartlett 47:27 I'm there.

Barbara Corcoran 47:27 Don't come.

Steven Bartlett 47:27 I'm fully booked. Uh, I take the Friday off. (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 47:29 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 47:32 Blimey. Y- uh, why, why are you so irked by complainers? And, is it, is it something about-

Barbara Corcoran 47:37 They're thieves. They're thieves. They take your money away, and they take your energy. And the most valuable asset you have is your energy. And if they take your energy away, you're not gonna deliver enough to everybody else. There's not enough to go around. No, they're thieves in the night. They come in, they got their hands in your pockets, and they're taking your goods. That's how I see negative people. Uh, when you have a team filled with very positive people, it's like they're stuffing your pockets with money and jewels all the time. (laughs) It's the way you wanna be. It's those people you wanna be around. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 48:13 Have you noticed, 'cause I think I've noticed this, that, you know, my, my first business where we had about somewhere around 500 people, 95% of my people problems were created by, like, one person.

Barbara Corcoran 48:25 Of course, the complainer.

Steven Bartlett 48:27 Yeah.

Barbara Corcoran 48:27 The negative person.

Steven Bartlett 48:27 The neg-

Barbara Corcoran 48:28 Why? You didn't ever work on Friday?

Steven Bartlett 48:31 (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 48:31 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 48:32 No, do you know what? I didn't realize, I should've just made the decision quickly to get rid of them, but then I, I, I had that complex which bosses sometimes have, where I go, "Well, if I get rid of them, then it's gonna impact the culture, and then they're gonna do this." And sometimes, they're so much of a complainer and so negative, they've acquired so many ears to be negative to, that there-

Barbara Corcoran 48:48 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 48:48 ... there was this fear that if I, if I fire them, then there's gonna be even more negativity, like, like a volcano of negativity.

Barbara Corcoran 48:54 That was naivety on your part.

Steven Bartlett 48:55 Yes, it was.

Barbara Corcoran 48:55 I'm sure you've found very differently once you fired a few people.

Steven Bartlett 48:57 Amen.

Barbara Corcoran 48:59 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 48:59 Amen. I learned the lesson, and one of my philosophies now is, like, as soon as you know-

Barbara Corcoran 49:02 Soon as you know.

Steven Bartlett 49:03 ... fast as you possibly can. And your point about, um, don't say it's because they are ... Well, you can't say because they're negative. So.

Barbara Corcoran 49:10 Oh, you can't win at that game. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 49:11 Yeah.

Barbara Corcoran 49:12 You know, it took me probably three years. I h- I hired a great salesman from another firm, which was reaching for me, 'cause I groomed all my own. No one would come, and someone actually wanted to come and work for me, from a bigger firm. I couldn't believe it. I hired this lady. She was so negative, right away. So negative. She had two personas, outward when you're interviewing, and inward when they're working for you. And she was so, so negative. And I really thought I could change her around. I'm such a positive human being, everybody who's positive, I'm gonna change her around. And then I learned the important lesson, if her parents couldn't make her smile, I wasn't going to. (laughs) Forget it. They had this lady for their whole life and she's miserable? I'm not gonna make her happy.

Steven Bartlett 49:53 (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 49:53 And so, part of it is admitting defeat, that you're not all that powerful, where you're gonna turn somebody around. No. Negative, you just get rid of them. Mm-mm. Terrible.

Steven Bartlett 50:03 Let's talk about something more positive. What about c- compliments?

Barbara Corcoran 50:07 Compliments, when they're genuine, not compliments that are empty, and not compliments in front of a group for the sake of grandstanding. I just don't believe in it. People see right through the bullshit. You know, everybody ... You could get somebody with the lowest IQ in the world, you bullshit them, they know it. They just know it. You just assume people are smarter than they look, okay? And so, I think a genuine compliment with specifics to back it up is the greatest thing in the world, and you'll make someone fly and become even stronger the next day. But if it's not specific, and why that was so smart that you did it and what it did for us, that's a compliment. "Let's give her a round of applause." (clapping) Okay?

Steven Bartlett 50:49 Hmm.

Barbara Corcoran 50:49 That's the right kind of compliment. But you know, to find those compliments, it is creating a habit as a manager or a business owner of looking for 'em. I would walk through and try to find anything good I could talk about, anything anybody did good that somebody would snitch on. And then I'd get the details down and then give them a compliment individually if I thought they were a private person. But if I thought they were a competitive person, I always did it in front of the group. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 51:17 Hmm.

Barbara Corcoran 51:17 Because they're competitive and they want everybody to see they're better, you know? So yeah, you have, you s- Uh, the compliments are so powerful. But you know, they pass. I think the greatest compliment you could give an individual is trust that they are better than they think they are. And I honestly think that people write themselves off as so much less than they're capable of. Um, when you say to someone, "I noticed you dress ..." Uh, uh, I'll give you an example, uh, because this is a silly example. But I got my advertising manager, she was a salesman who was mediocre, ma- meeting overhead and turning a little profit, but not great. And I looked at her every day and thought, "She is such a beautiful dresser. What she can do with her hair, with her clothing is incredible." And I went out of my way to walk over to her desk. She had the perfect match, she had the perfect thing. Sh- Her desk looked like I wanted to vacation there, it was so gorgeous. So I said to her, "Anita, how would you like to be my advertising manager?" She said, "I didn't know you had an advertising manager." I said, "I don't. But how about you take it?" Now, how did I know she would be exceptional in advertising? Because everything about her was put together. I figured that had to transfer to great graphics, beautiful design, the layout of the page. 'Cause she was ... That was kinda like a page I saw on her desk. She was incredible. I, uh, I, I think you just have to find the gift in people and point it out and think of, "How can I take advantage?" And, uh, Anita became probably the m- the envy of every firm in the c- in the, in the city b- 'cause of our great advertising. That wasn't me. I got the credit. It was her. But I blossomed her m- her up because I saw that gift in her, you know? Sounds like a stretch, but it's really not. You know? It's not a stretch if you keep your eyes open and see what people are good at.

Steven Bartlett 53:08 We talked about the mouth there with the smile, but what about the eyes?

Barbara Corcoran 53:11 You mean looking at someone in the eyes?

Steven Bartlett 53:13 Yeah.

Barbara Corcoran 53:14 Oh, you have to. I mean, do you trust anyone who doesn't make eye contact? Ever? Really? They're, you figure they're either insecure, they're shift- Insecure, dishonest, or probably those two. That's what I always say. Dishonest or insecure. Either way, you don't wanna hang out with them. No, the eyes are key.

Steven Bartlett 53:33 All right, 'cause I read that in the pandemic when you were hiring for one of your roles-

Barbara Corcoran 53:37 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 53:37 ... you basically ... There was 500 people and you basically excluded everybody that didn't make eye contact with the camera.

Barbara Corcoran 53:43 You read that about me?

Steven Bartlett 53:45 Yeah.

Barbara Corcoran 53:45 I think it was probably exaggerated. I don't think it was 500 people. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 53:48 But just a, you know, a lot of people.

Barbara Corcoran 53:49 Yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 53:50 Yeah.

Barbara Corcoran 53:50 But a lot of people, definitely. Okay? You don't make ... Absolutely.

Steven Bartlett 53:54 And you excluded everyone who had bad lighting.

Barbara Corcoran 53:57 I did, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 53:58 Why?

Barbara Corcoran 54:00 Because it showed a lack of aggressiveness and caring for themselves, I felt. I mean, if I was interviewing for a job and I knew it was competitive, most jobs are, I would wanna show my best self, I think, through everything. I mean, maybe me more than most people would do it. But I think if you show up with bad lighting, and then on top of that, you don't make good eye contact, next please. No, it's just terrible. No. It's very hard to hire people through COVID online, but I never did. In the end, whoever I hired, I insisted I meet them in person. You can't really do as thorough a job unless you're in person, I believe, or I've never been able to learn how to do that. (paper crinkling)

Steven Bartlett 54:40 I had a few words to say about one of my sponsors on this podcast. My girlfriend came upstairs yesterday when I was having a shower, and she said to me that she tried the Huel protein shake, which lives on my fridge over there. And she said it's amazing. Low calories, you get your 20-odd grams of protein, you get your 26 vitamins and minerals, and it's nutritionally complete. In the protein space, there's lots of things, but it's hard to find something that is nice, especially when consumed just with water. If you haven't tried the Huel protein product, do give it a try. The salted caramel one, if you put some ice cubes in it and you put it in a blender and you try it, is as good as pretty much any milkshake on the market, just mixed with water. It's been a game changer for me because I'm trying to drop my calorie intake and I'm trying to be a little bit more healthy with my diet, so this is where Huel fits in my life. Thank you, Huel, for making a product that I actually like. Intel are now one of our sponsors on this podcast, and I'm here to tell you about their vPro platform. Security and data protection are totally non-negotiable when it comes to the technology I use for my businesses. I'm constantly thinking about where we can upgrade our systems to protect against potential threats, so this is where Intel vPro has become our go-to. Intel vPro is built for businesses. It has hardware-based, multi-layer platform security features protecting from cyberattacks, threat detection, and also recovery systems, all in one platform. In an ever-challenging cyber landscape, if I can put measures in place that I believe will save me time and money, then I absolutely will. So head over to intel.co.uk/vPro to find out how it can work for your business.

Steven Bartlett 56:07 (paper crinkling) Shark Tank, um, where I'm a dragon on Dragon's Den, you're a shark on Shark Tank.

Barbara Corcoran 56:12 All the same.

Steven Bartlett 56:13 Yeah. Well, yeah.

Barbara Corcoran 56:14 Means you're a sucker.

Steven Bartlett 56:15 Does it? Uh, to be fair, I mean, I think dragons are slightly more impressive than sharks, gotta be honest.

Barbara Corcoran 56:20 You think so? I think sharks are more impressive than dragons.

Steven Bartlett 56:22 Sharks are real. Dragons don't exist. We're kind of mythical.

Barbara Corcoran 56:25 Dragons are silly. It's an old-fashioned word. Sharks are sharks.

Steven Bartlett 56:28 Well, sharks, well, pfff, I mean, other than Jaws, what have sharks really done for society? Wh- whereas a dragon is you- you're someone of great imagination. To, to, to be a dragon, you have to have great imagination 'cause they don't exist. It's like being a unicorn. So can we agree that dragons are better?

Barbara Corcoran 56:43 Uh, no, I'm afraid not. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 56:46 (laughs) Okay. Okay. Well, you're on Shark Tank, and link to what we just said about quickly assessing if a person is, is legit and worth-

Barbara Corcoran 56:56 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 56:56 ... investing in, what have you learned? You've been on the show longer than I've been on th- the UK version of the show.

Barbara Corcoran 57:00 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 57:01 What advice would you give me as a new dragon to be successful, from your experience?

Barbara Corcoran 57:07 I would say keep your money in your pocket for a little bit.

Steven Bartlett 57:10 Okay.

Barbara Corcoran 57:11 Yeah. I... My first few seasons of Shark Tank, I spent so much money, threw money at the wall at anything that moved. Yeah. So I hope you haven't made that mistake.

Steven Bartlett 57:19 I only did like 11 investments in my first-

Barbara Corcoran 57:21 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 57:21 ... season, so.

Barbara Corcoran 57:21 But, uh, for me, I... What I have learned in 14 years, and I've learned it a good 10 years ago, I'd say, is, uh, never choose a business, always choose the entrepreneur. Uh, I have sat there and listened to business plans that I don't even know what they're talking about. I... It makes no sense to me what they're talking about, uh, because it's not a business I know or I don't understand the terminology, and in the old days, I would have thought I was too stupid, but now I know I'm smart enough that if I'm not understanding, it's okay, I'm s- probably still smart. Uh, but I have to be really smart in making the choice of the individual. Do I trust this person? Can I visualize them going through a wall? What's their background? Are they good at getting back up? Do they have ambition? Not passion. Passion's so overrated. "I feel passionate. This, we really wanna do this." Like saying you're excited about your first date. Who cares? You know, wait till you marry the lady and see how you feel. But I think the commitment and the drive and the ambition is what I'm always looking for. I'm looking just, just trying to smell it out.

Steven Bartlett 58:28 If someone says they were poor and they didn't have a father, let's say.

Barbara Corcoran 58:32 I'm biased right away, I wanna buy the business.

Steven Bartlett 58:34 You want to invest straight away?

Barbara Corcoran 58:36 It doesn't mean I will, 'cause I have to hear more about how they handle things, what kind of an individual they are. But no, um, I'm very biased, or I should really say I'm, I'm not very nice or fair-minded with rich kids. The problem with investing in a business owned by a rich kid, he's usually raised money already rather easily. It's not sweat equity. So you got a chunk of change to get started. Okay, that's nice. Now you would think that would make things easier. I think it makes things difficult. You don't spend your money wisely. It's papa's money or your f- or your parents' friends' money, or wherever you got it from. So it's not valuable money. And I've seen more people stand and say, "Well, we pivoted. We lost that. We pivoted." What happened to the guys that gave you the cash?

Steven Bartlett 59:21 (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 59:21 What happened to them? No regard at all. Okay?

Steven Bartlett 59:24 (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 59:24 When you get a poor kid, uh, they typically have something to prove. They really have to stretch every penny. It's their own money. They're dying just to get a little bit more. There's so much a greater need, and there's also a desire to do well in living in their life. They wanna go on vacations. They, too, want to get a sports car. They want to get a nice apartment. These rich kids have had it all before. They've been on vacation everywhere. They've always had rich cars, rich parents, so... So I think it's so much harder for a rich kid to succeed as an entrepreneur. I just love poor kids. And, and I have to tell you, out of my whole portfolio, I don't have a single rich kid who succeeded. Well, most of it is because I don't invest in them in the last five years. But even when I did years ago, none of them succeeded. No, they went on to do something else. My poor people, ah, those are my winners. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:16 Yeah.

Barbara Corcoran 1:00:16 They're desperate to succeed.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:19 The only thing that beats growing up poor, in Cochran's opinion, is growing up damaged.

Barbara Corcoran 1:00:24 Oh. Yeah. Well, aren't we all damaged in one way or another, right? But you could get damaged by money and affluence so easily. I think it's easier to raise a poor kid than it is a rich kid because of the circles they fly in, their value systems, h- who they measure themselves against, what they measure. I think it's more difficult to be an affluent kid, uh, or affluent p- rich parent and raise, uh, a good kid, a good kid with values. I really think it's harder.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:55 You know when I said I spoke to your assistant?

Barbara Corcoran 1:00:57 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:57 I did. Well, we did.

Barbara Corcoran 1:00:59 Emily, right?

Steven Bartlett 1:01:00 Yeah.

Barbara Corcoran 1:01:00 Okay.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:00 Emily. Um-

Barbara Corcoran 1:01:01 Good thing you talked to the good one.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:03 Oh, there's another one?

Barbara Corcoran 1:01:04 There's three, and they don't like me. No, I'm only kidding.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:08 (laughs) Yeah.

Barbara Corcoran 1:01:09 I'm only kidding. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:01:09 Um, and she told me about some pictures in your office that are hanging-

Barbara Corcoran 1:01:14 Oh.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:14 ... on the wall.

Barbara Corcoran 1:01:14 Oh, those. The hallway of doom. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:01:18 What is the hallway of doom?

Barbara Corcoran 1:01:21 Well, you see, anyone who's on Shark Tank, as you well know, and Dragon's Den, has a night in the sun where they're on the show and everybody orders from them, and they become almost rich overnight, or at least they think they're gonna be rich, and they're all celebrating, excited. All right. And then something goes wrong with their business, maybe three to four months out. That's my timetable. I'm waiting for that day. Something's gonna go wrong. It's not just the patent didn't come through. That's minor stuff, like the mold was wrong, or they delivered 10,000 pieces and they're made wrong. And he had the patent. I didn't know. He was gonna give it to me, but he ran off with it. Uh, uh, something goes wrong. I just wait around and I watch and I say, "How's it going?" (laughs) And there's only two different responses (laughs) to that, which is, "He promised me," you know? "He promised me. I mean, the guy said he was good," da-da-da-da-da-da. I go over to my wall, and I turn the entrepreneur's picture upside down, to remind myself never to talk to them again or spend time. (laughs) No, I'll talk to them, but I'm not gonna spend my time, because they're victims. And then you have the one in four people who handle it this way. "Ah, crap, I can't believe I made that mistake. Okay, let's, let's see what we should do." That's an entrepreneur. Moving on, moving out and going forward, and taking the blame, even if they weren't to blame. Every one of my really successful businesses that have done so well have had the worst setbacks, but they've always taken responsibility. And those pictures are always right side up. They call me on my cell, "Hello, how can I help you?" Because they're phenomenal entrepreneurs. I believe that the difference between the really good ones and the ones that don't make it are, uh, the ones that don't make it know how to be a victim. Uh, they feel sorry for themselves, they blame the next guy, and they don't take the responsibility as their own. And that's what an entrepreneur does. You're the boss, it's your problem, period. It's your, your problem, it rests with you, now what are you gonna do about it? And these kids that are, are really equipped to, to not hesitate at all, but just get on the horse and go galloping, going, going, going, going, going, going again, uh, they're terrific. I've invested in, uh, uh, four women cousins who have a very clever... Well, I don't know how clever the business was, but I'm... They're clever. And they lost $800,000 on month three stolen from their accounts. Couldn't pay their suppliers. All of their sales were gone. I couldn't wait to talk to them. I was not gonna say, "Too bad it happened." I said, "Hey, hi, I heard. What are you gonna do?" "Well, we're thinking already..." Bah-bah-bah-bah-bah. Back on the horse. They c- they recovered. They ended the year with something like $7 million in sales. How did they do it? They are just not victims. They go forward, forward, forward, forward, forward. Those are the people I love. I love them.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:18 This allergic reaction to complainers and pessimists and

Barbara Corcoran 1:04:21 You're back to that again. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:04:22 Yeah, but d- does it come from... You know, I was just think- reflecting on how much your mother, you said you never even saw her sleep.

Barbara Corcoran 1:04:28 No.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:28 She was just alwa- she didn't complain.

Barbara Corcoran 1:04:30 No.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:30 She just got on with it.

Barbara Corcoran 1:04:32 No.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:32 Is it influenced by that?

Barbara Corcoran 1:04:34 Um, well, I'll tell you what my mother did which did influence all of us. Uh, if we went to my mother, uh, with something my brother John did to me or my sister Ellen did to me, something unfair, we'd go to her. "She took this from me. She wasn't supposed to." My mother would punish us both. She didn't hear the complaints. She said, "You're both punished. Sit down. You have an hour." That's it. There was no sense in complaining about anything, so we never complained. We learned in short order as little kids, you don't complain, you just shut up. Otherwise, you both get punished. And, you know, in business, it's really that way, if you think about it. Uh, y- yeah, if, if you're gonna complain... You know, I even had an incident I learned very early on that just popped in my head that reminded me so much of my mother. I had two department heads who hated each other, and I wasn't aware of it. Someone brought my attention to it. Anyway, one came in and told me what, why this other department was getting in the way, and the other one said, "Why this ba-ba-ba-ba." I said, "Wow, this must be terrible for you." I was empathetic, empathetic, listened to both complaints, and then I said, "We hear" with the second one. I went and got the first complainer, and I said, "Okay, girls, uh, you obviously have a problem with the way you're working together. Figure it out, or you're both fired." I was mimicking my mother. "Figure it out, or you're both fired," and I left the room. They figured it out. They never came to me again with a complaint, you know?

Steven Bartlett 1:05:57 (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 1:05:57 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:05:58 Figure it out.

Barbara Corcoran 1:05:58 It, it work, it works against everybody. You know, it just works against everybody, the culture of the business in every way.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:05 Bill.

Barbara Corcoran 1:06:06 Bill. Oh shit, Bill. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:06:09 (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 1:06:10 You know what all my friends call Bill? Poor Bill.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:12 Why?

Barbara Corcoran 1:06:13 Isn't that a shame? I'm the nice person. Bill is a difficult man, and yet everybody who knows us both calls him Poor Bill, like he married the wrong person. You know-

Steven Bartlett 1:06:24 Bill is your husband?

Barbara Corcoran 1:06:25 Yes, 37 years.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:27 He said he's the nice one, and you're the difficult one.

Barbara Corcoran 1:06:29 Who said that? You spoke to Bill?

Steven Bartlett 1:06:31 Bill.

Barbara Corcoran 1:06:31 You spoke to Bill?

Steven Bartlett 1:06:32 Yeah.

Barbara Corcoran 1:06:33 Don't believe Bill.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:33 (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 1:06:34 (laughs) I can't believe he even answered the phone.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:37 Uh, no, I didn't speak t-

Barbara Corcoran 1:06:37 He's always watching TV.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:38 I didn't speak to Bill.

Barbara Corcoran 1:06:39 Oh, gosh.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:40 I'm j- no, I'm, I'm lying. I was alone.

Barbara Corcoran 1:06:41 You know, ironically, if you did speak with Bill, Bill adores the ground I walk on, can never say anything negative, and all I do is complain about Bill. And all I do is say negative things about him.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:54 (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 1:06:55 (laughs) I really mean it. I'm a terrible wife.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:58 (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 1:06:59 I really am. I'm not just saying that.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:01 The thing I-

Barbara Corcoran 1:07:01 You should talk to Bill. He'll confirm this.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:03 I did, and he confirmed it-

Barbara Corcoran 1:07:05 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:07:05 ... that you're terrible. Um, the thing I was, was really compelled by is I was reading how at some point, you started outearning Bill.

Barbara Corcoran 1:07:11 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:11 And that and the relationship can have an interesting dynamic on the, like, on the...

Barbara Corcoran 1:07:18 Relationship.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:18 Yeah, because of the status.

Barbara Corcoran 1:07:19 Definitely.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:20 And I, that's what I was reading about, you know, your story, about it being a struggle at some point.

Barbara Corcoran 1:07:24 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:24 You first lied when you outearned him for the first time. You put it down to an accounting error, and you seemed to kind of not want to...

Barbara Corcoran 1:07:33 Hmm. It was tough at first, you know? When I met Bill, he owned a brokerage firm in New Jersey, and I earned w- I had one in New York. I had 19, 20 people. He had 19, 20 people. We were even, right? And then, uh, within the next four years, I had 500 people, and he had 22. (laughs) Not a good scene, all right? We were both earning about, just able to pay our rent kind of when we got married. Uh, but when it went askew that I outearned him by a mile, uh, you have ego at, at risk, you know?

Steven Bartlett 1:08:08 Really?

Barbara Corcoran 1:08:09 Uh, very much so. Absolutely. And I married the kinda guy that was most bulletproof.... for feeling ashamed about not earning money. He was a FBI agent, he was a top-selling agent in New Jersey when he was a young stud. He graduated from Annapolis, he was an honored Navy captain. I mean, he was accomplished. The head of the Republican Club in the state of New Jersey. Everything he did, he was accomplished. All I did was run a business, all right? However, all of that stuff is not measured by money, you know? Once I was making a lot of money, it was hard for Bill. It was hard for Bill. It was like everybody knew me. Once I had notoriety, "You're married to Barbara?" He stopped being Bill A., Bill Higgins, the FBI agent. He stopped being Bill Higgins, the Navy captain. I mean, all that stuff, uh, kind of didn't count as much anymore. And it should have, because we were in a New York town where everybody values you by how popular and how much money you make. And he was less than me. But how did he stay with the marriage after all these years? Uh, because Bill really doesn't have much value for money. He never did. It's not important to him. He's just a nice guy. But I had an issue with it. Yeah, I had an issue. I felt, uh, not feminine enough when you out-earn your husband. You don't feel that feminine. You feel like the caveman instead of the cave woman.

Barbara Corcoran 1:09:32 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:09:32 We have a closing tradition on this podcast.

Barbara Corcoran 1:09:34 Yes. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:09:34 The last question is always left by the-

Barbara Corcoran 1:09:36 Okay.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:36 ... the last guest. The last guest left the question for you. What did you learn from your greatest failure?

Barbara Corcoran 1:09:44 I learned that you get back up and all the opportunity is in getting back up. Just gotta be a habit of getting up. You get up and you're gonna find some shit that you can do something with. Just get up. That's a habit. You have to make that habit.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:58 Barbara, thank you.

Barbara Corcoran 1:09:59 My pleasure.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:59 Thank you for the inspiration, thank you for the humor. You're hilarious and brilliant in equal measure.

Barbara Corcoran 1:10:03 Really?

Steven Bartlett 1:10:03 And you're- c- y- you absolutely are, you absolutely are.

Barbara Corcoran 1:10:06 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:10:06 Um, and you're, you're definitely in my top two favorite Sharks. You and Damian are my favorite, so-

Barbara Corcoran 1:10:11 Oh, forget about Damian.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:13 ... the years I've been- Okay, Mark. (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 1:10:13 He's no good. Mark, Mark's no good. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:10:17 Thank you so much for your time.

Barbara Corcoran 1:10:18 And I don't wanna be among your favorite Sharks, I wanna be among your favorite people in the world.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:22 You're my favorite Shark now, now that I've met you and you're so funny. But, so, for sure, for sure.

Barbara Corcoran 1:10:26 I don't believe you.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:26 Thank you for the inspiration.

Barbara Corcoran 1:10:27 I don't believe you. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:10:27 I'm looking you in the eyes. You can trust me. (laughs)

Barbara Corcoran 1:10:30 I do trust you.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:31 Oh, good.

Barbara Corcoran 1:10:31 You're very trustworthy, I can tell.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:32 Thank you so much, Barbara. It's an honor. Quick word from one of our sponsors. I've got a tip for all of you that will make your virtual meeting experiences, I think, 10 times better. As some of you may know by now, BlueJeans by Verizon offers seamless, high-quality video conferencing. But the reason why I use BlueJeans versus other video conferencing tools is because of immersion. Their tools make you feel more connected to the employees or customers you're trying to engage with. And now, they're launching one of their biggest feature enhancements to impact virtual events so far called BlueJeans Studio. I actually used it the other day. I did an, a virtual event using the studio, which I think about 700 of you came to. TV-level production quality, all done by one person with very little technical experience on a laptop. So, if you've got an event coming up and you're thinking about doing it virtually, check out BlueJeans Studio now. Let me know what you think, 'cause I genuinely believe ... I know this is an advert and I'm supposed to say this, but I genuinely believe it's the best tool I've seen for doing really immersive, simple but high-quality production virtual events. (instrumental music)