Skip to content
The Diary of a CEOThe Diary of a CEO

Billy McFarland: The Man Behind The Infamous Fyre Festival Disaster | E202

The co-creator of the infamous Fyre festival, Billy McFarland spent 4 years behind bars for lying to investors and using the mythical tropical island festival as a way to pay off his debts. You have probably heard of him from the 2 massively popular documentaries that blew up on social media. Topics: 0:00 Intro 02:01 Early Context 05:53 A desire to prove yourself 16:08 Your entrepreneurial journey 21:28 Magnises 26:20 The start of Fyre 33:34 Are you a pathological liar? 37:32 Not wanting watch the documentary 41:53 Your skills sets that enabled all of this 45:10 The ‘urgent payment sheet/‘ 50:29 The mental health implications of all of this 54:42 Your insecurities 57:12 When you realised everything had gone wrong 59:47 Did you ask Andy king to such a penis? 01:01:39 People losing their life savings 01:02:39 The FBI coming for you 01:04:55 Carrying on with the scams 01:08:01 Your relationship with lying now 01:10:09 What was it like when the FBI came knocking? 01:11:57 Ja rule 01:13:17 Going to jail 01:19:45 The worst thing the happened in jail 01:26:07 Your mental health journey now 01:29:11 What was your plan when you got out? 01:37:38 How are you doing? 01:43:17 The last guest question Billy: https://bit.ly/3FzNX7x https://bit.ly/3FeD6ym Join this channel to get access to perks: https://bit.ly/3Dpmgx5 Listen on: Apple podcast - https://apple.co/3TTvxDf Spotify - https://spoti.fi/3VX3yEw Follow: Instagram: https://bit.ly/3CXkF0d Twitter: https://bit.ly/3ss7pM0 Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3z3CSYM Telegram: https://g2ul0.app.link/SBExclusiveCommun Sponsors: Intel - https://bit.ly/3UVp3UC use our code evoceo15 for 15% off at John Lewis Huel - https://g2ul0.app.link/G4RjcdKNKsb BlueJeans - https://g2ul0.app.link/NCgpGjVNKsb Craftd - https://g2ul0.app.link/gZ8in6Dsvsb

Steven BartletthostBilly McFarlandguest
Dec 8, 20221h 47mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:01

    Intro

    1. SB

      Were you nervous coming here today? (tense music)

    2. BM

      I didn't know how in depth you were gonna go. If I knew the questions, I don't think I would've slept last night.

    3. SB

      Are you a pathological liar? (tense music) Billy McFarland. He is the man behind the infamous Fyre Festival.

    4. BM

      Island getaway turned disaster.

    5. SB

      The Fyre Festival is the subject of two documentaries.

    6. BM

      I will never forget.

    7. SB

      When did you realize it had all gone wrong? (tense music)

    8. BM

      We were at the point where the timeline I had come up with was just so off. I'd wake up some days and it's like, "We need $4 million by 2:00 PM."

    9. SB

      Did no one say to you, "This is fucking craziness"?

    10. BM

      I just didn't have the ability to like, okay, like what's actually happening? How can we prevent this? And like almost like as if on cue, a storm rolls in. (laughs)

    11. SB

      Billy McFarland pleaded guilty to fraud charges.

    12. BM

      Sentenced to six years in prison.

    13. SB

      You come back to a shit storm.

    14. BM

      Yeah.

    15. SB

      The criminality doesn't stop though, does it?

    16. BM

      But I couldn't like really understand the magnitude and the gravity of the crime that I did commit.

    17. SB

      Your lawyers tried to get you off the 20-year prison sentence by saying that you suffered from untreated bipolar disorder. Do you have bipolar disorder?

    18. BM

      Um. I did two stints in solitary. The seven-month stint was because I tried to do a podcast over the payphone. They put the paperwork in to send me to like a terrorist facility. When you're rendered useless and powerless, that just kind of kills your humanity. That's fucking scary. That keeps me up at night.

    19. SB

      Andy King. (laughs) Did you ask him to suck a penis?

    20. BM

      Here's what actually happened.

    21. SB

      (exhales) Before this episode starts, I have a small favor to ask from you. Two months ago, 74% of people that watch this channel didn't subscribe. We're now down to 69%. My goal is 50%. So if you've ever liked any of the videos we've posted, if you like this channel, can you do me a quick favor and hit the subscribe button? It helps this channel more than you know. And the bigger the channel gets, as you've seen, the bigger the guests get. Thank you and enjoy this episode. (upbeat music)

  2. 2:01 – 5:53

    Early Context

    1. SB

      Billy, how are you doing?

    2. BM

      It's been crazy. Uh, a little less than three and a half months since my sentence ended, and really just been a whirlwind of finding the right people, finding the right opportunities, and really just dealing with this overhang of probation and the constant fear that there's someone out there who could send me back at any time by taking a wrong turn. So, trying to avoid paying people back in every sense of that word and emotion while dealing with this fear that I can wake up one morning to a phone call saying, "Ha," like, "Joke's over. You're going back."

    3. SB

      So take me back. Um, one of the things I'm so curious about everybody that I sit here and talk to is their earliest context and their earliest upbringing and how that's like ultimately shaped who they are today.

    4. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    5. SB

      So take me way, way back to New Jersey when you were, you know, under the age of 10.

    6. BM

      Yeah.

    7. SB

      What was that, what was your context, your parents, the situation in which you grew up?

    8. BM

      Yeah, I grew up in a pretty normal suburban American household, and I think the defining moment was when I was 10 years old where I got a cable internet line into my house, and this is the really early days of the internet, and it was pretty much like the Wild, Wild West era where a lot of like the framework and regulation and mature social platforms that we have now just didn't exist then. We were in the infancy of like HTML and CSS and the practicality and accessibility of some 10-year-old putting a website online, and I really found the internet to be this outlet where I could push the boundaries of everything that I thought was possible as this young suburban child, and really as a way to start getting in trouble and seeing what it was like to get in trouble and see where I could go.

    9. SB

      Talk to me about your parents. I've not heard, um, much about them in your interviews, but I'd love to know the influence they had on you and how that shaped you.

    10. BM

      I think they were great. You know, super loving, super supportive, and I, I think I've been asked this question, you know, so many times, but whether it's like the jail therapist, like, or the probation department, and I think it's interesting that, you, you know, there isn't like a defining moment I think that kind of set me down like the entrepreneurial journey. Um, I think I was just like really weird in this desire to make my own path and to really test what was possible. And so, I was always kind of looking for journeys to start businesses and really like test the bounds of, you know, of reality and of the constraints placed on me at various times in life. And obviously, like the constraints of a 10-year-old are, are much different than they were when I was 24 in the midst of the Fyre Festival and much different at 27 in solitary confinement. But I think the reoccurring theme was trying to find ways to test those restraints, and that took me to the very best times, but also the very worst times in doing four years in prison and, you know, owing the world, whether that's time, money, friendship, an apology. Uh, so yeah. It's been, it's been quite the journey.

    11. SB

      My question still becomes like why though? So testing the restraints of like what was possible-

    12. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    13. SB

      ... why does a kid want to do that? Like, what was it about, about you when you were that age in your childhood or the circumstances you found yourself in or, you know, what behavior was being reinforced and what behavior was being punished that made you go off on that journey? You, you referenced a, a, a sort of a jailhouse therapist.

    14. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    15. SB

      And them probably asking you these kind of questions as well.

    16. BM

      Yeah, yeah.

    17. SB

      Did you learn anything about yourself from that, those conversations?

    18. BM

      Totally, and I, I think there has always been this desire to prove that I was different, and I don't think I really understood like what different meant. I don't think it meant trying to be like the smartest or the most interesting. It was like trying to prove that I could create my own path, and I think that's always-

    19. SB

      Why?

    20. BM

      ... been the desire.

  3. 5:53 – 16:08

    A desire to prove yourself

    1. BM

    2. SB

      Why did you want to create your own path and prove that? I hear this word proving a lot throughout your story.

    3. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    4. SB

      Like a desire to prove yourself right and prove yourself to others. It comes up over and over again in the conversations you've had. Where did that desire to prove yourself come from?

    5. BM

      I think, uh, yeah, yeah, I remember back to like getting a, an AlphaSmart in, you know, early grammar school and I was so desperate to like hack the teacher's like admin password for the AlphaSmart to change the settings on it and just wanted to show or, I think I was really proving to myself that I could do something different and... I never really did well in terms of like a structured, like learning environment. I was always either like super disinterested or very, very passionate about something, whether it's technology or computers, the internet, and just like wanting to dive in and just like almost testing against myself what, what was possible and what wasn't possible.

    6. SB

      Did, did those around you, like teachers and your parents have high hopes for you in your opinion?

    7. BM

      I think so, but they were also, you know, I don't wanna s- I don't like the word like realistic, but I think they were very like realistic and structured hopes and my path was certainly frowned upon by teachers, you know, friends, uh, et cetera, throughout the years.

    8. SB

      Even when you were younger people-

    9. BM

      Even when I was younger, yeah. I think like teachers were always concerned that like, "Why is he starting a business and not focusing on his, you know, math tests?" So it was, it was, it was a problem since a, a young age.

    10. SB

      Do you remember getting sort of like critical or pessimistic feedback at a young age about your ambitions and what was possible for you?

    11. BM

      Yeah, absolutely. And-

    12. SB

      Can you give me some examples?

    13. BM

      Yeah. So it's like, uh, I had started a social network a couple of years later when I was 12 years old, and this is early days of MySpace before Facebook had really gone outside of like Harvard and the initial Ivy League schools. I created a private social network for my middle school and like out of nowhere, like the site blew up and you know, it was like the talk in middle school for a few days and the teachers basically called me in and said like, "The internet is not safe." You know, "You have to stop this right now. You have to get rid of the website."

    14. SB

      And how did that make you feel?

    15. BM

      It made me feel like I thought I was creating something of value, but I, I felt like that what I viewed as value wasn't, you know, agreed upon by everybody else. It almost created this like reinforcement where like, no, I know this is tangible. I know this is real and I know people like are enjoying something I made and I felt it was just so cool to have, at the time it was hundreds of people, whatever, but having hundreds or a couple of thousand people using something I made as a 12-year-old was just really, really interesting to me and I think it kind of created this deeper desel- shell and like desire to prove whether it was to those teachers or to the friends who like weren't supportive that there is a different way than, you know, the way that we're all taught.

    16. SB

      What did your parents want you to be? You know, like I think my mom wanted me to be... I actually remember.

    17. BM

      Yeah.

    18. SB

      My mom's from, from Nigeria. She didn't get an education-

    19. BM

      Oh.

    20. SB

      ...like, uh, we do. I was born in Botswana in Africa as well and my mom, I think wanted me to be a doctor or a lawyer.

    21. BM

      Okay.

    22. SB

      I think she was set actually on doctor. What did your parents want you to be in your own opinion?

    23. BM

      I don't think they really cared as long as I followed the traditional path of like super studying hard in school, doing well, going to a good college, having a good college experience. I think beyond that, um, they didn't really care too much. I went to school to study computer engineering, didn't last very long. (laughs)

    24. SB

      Hmm.

    25. BM

      So didn't really, you know, study computer engineering, but that was the, uh, that was the intent.

    26. SB

      What, what, what's the defining difference between both of them? You know, like my mother is X in terms of ha- characteristics, my father is Y.

    27. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    28. SB

      What, what other... If you had to describe them in a couple of words each, what words would you use?

    29. BM

      I think entrepreneurial, uh, you know, quick, like in terms of like, you know, quick minds are sharp, they're smart and like honest. Th- I think like integrity is like the big thing. They're very honest, good people and like that's, you know, has been part of the hardest part to me is them and not just them, it's like other family members and friends trying to understand how I could go down this path where I was just lying and, you know, lying to investors and partners and employees and whatever it may have been, just like understanding how I got there from, you know, the, the path I had taken.

    30. SB

      Have you had that conversation with them?

  4. 16:08 – 21:28

    Your entrepreneurial journey

    1. SB

      Going back into your story, it's, you know, I was reading through all of the sort of entrepreneurial endeavors you, you did as a, as a young man even before the age of, like, 15 years old you had started companies, you had sold companies. Um, just, just this long, long list of continually starting another business. Starting at, like, nine years old you started programming. 13 you start this, um, this, this outsourcing startup which en- uh, eventually gets sold, uh, on an auction site called, um, Your Hot Site, I believe.

    2. BM

      Yes.

    3. SB

      And then at 15 years old you create a company called 24Seen which is eventually sold to BuddyTV.

    4. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    5. SB

      When you were 15 years old.

    6. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    7. SB

      You go off to, you graduate at 18 from, I guess, high school or something.

    8. BM

      High school, yeah.

    9. SB

      Yeah. We call it different things in the UK.

    10. BM

      Yeah.

    11. SB

      Um, you go off to university and in your freshman year you drop out and start a company called Spling.

    12. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    13. SB

      And you raise $400,000 in a series A round for this company called Spling at 18 years old, right?

    14. BM

      The financing rounds today are a little different. (laughs)

    15. SB

      (laughs) Oh, really?

    16. BM

      So this is like, this is like 2010 but-

    17. SB

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    18. BM

      ... crazy how the world's changed, right?

    19. SB

      Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you-

    20. BM

      Yeah.

    21. SB

      ... you raised that capital at 18 years old.

    22. BM

      Yes.

    23. SB

      Is that your first sort of i- window into the fact or point of awareness where you think, "Fuck, I can raise capital for things that I have ideas for"?

    24. BM

      I think the biggest thing there was having someone so much smarter and older and, like, more successful than me actually, like, believe in me and back it up. The idea to, like, any friends and any family that I'm taking time off school or dropping out of school was, like, totally not okay.

    25. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    26. BM

      But the fact that I can point to, like, a small group of these early investors who were clearly, like, established and, you know, like, amazing almost like icons in their own fields.

    27. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    28. BM

      That was when I was like, look, I have this real group who is supporting me beyond their words and I need to show not just them but I need to show the world that these people are right and everybody else who is saying, like, what I'm doing is wrong is incorrect.

    29. SB

      Who was saying you were wrong at that age, at 18? Who was betting against you?

    30. BM

      I think, like, every peer, you know-

  5. 21:28 – 26:20

    Magnises

    1. SB

      R- reoccurring theme.

    2. BM

      Yeah.

    3. SB

      Um, I mean, I see that throughout your childhood and then into early, into your early sort of 20s.

    4. BM

      Yep.

    5. SB

      That- that, um, that, I guess ambition and that sort of constant inspiration you have leads you to kind of abandon the last thing.

    6. BM

      Yep.

    7. SB

      And- and- and an entrepreneur's currency is their time and attention so, as you've, as you've cited there, it's finite. It means that the old thing gets a fraction of your time when really if it's gonna succeed in that market, it needs more than all of your time.

    8. BM

      Yes.

    9. SB

      Um, this leads you on to Magnises-

    10. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    11. SB

      ... in 2013?

    12. BM

      Yeah, 2015.

    13. SB

      You launched in 2014 eventually?

    14. BM

      Yeah.

    15. SB

      Magnises was a... Tell me, tell me what it was and- and why you chose to switch your attention to this.

    16. BM

      Yeah, so Magnises was a network that was seeking to give young people living in major cities access to better benefits, events, and networking than their like credit card would give them. So like literally this is 2012 I just, I started doing the Magnises card before it launched. I went on Alibaba, so this was like ten years ago before Alibaba is Alibaba, bought this like blank black sheet of metal and a credit card copier and literally went and copied my like really crappy debit card with $20 onto it onto this like black metal card and just like went to the pizza parlor across the street and the guy just made a total scene when I went to pay and went and showed the card off around WeWork and started just selling cards to like interesting entrepreneurs at WeWork and that was like literally the genesis of Magnises.

    17. SB

      And the- the core pro- of the proposition was that it was kind of elite and exclusive.

    18. BM

      Yeah, so it was definitely trying to cater towards this like upwardly mobile entrepreneur style crowd.

    19. SB

      That feels like a through line across many of your businesses that went on-

    20. BM

      Yeah.

    21. SB

      ... which was like appealing to people's desire for status and clout.

    22. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    23. SB

      'Cause when I was reading about Magnises, at the end of the day it felt like it was a- a black metal card which was, again, appealing to people's egos-

    24. BM

      Yeah.

    25. SB

      ... 'cause everybody wants that American Express Black card but they can't get it because you need to spend, you need to spend like a quarter of a million to get it.

    26. BM

      Sure. Yeah.

    27. SB

      So it makes people feel amazing and then you're promising them... The application process was only a few people could apply.

    28. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    29. SB

      It was all appealing to that, people's desire to be status.

    30. BM

      That's what, that's what it started at when I was like 19 or 20, whatever the- the time was and then it ended up growing and the real benefit was the network and there were certain members or cardholders who were meeting other members and kind of giving them value.

  6. 26:20 – 33:34

    The start of Fyre

    1. SB

      And from what I was reading ...

    2. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    3. SB

      Um, this is the- when one of the first big lies was told, which was around the success of Fire mobile app. I read this-

    4. BM

      Yeah.

    5. SB

      I think- I can't remember where I saw it. It might have been the Hulu documentary or something.

    6. BM

      Yep.

    7. SB

      It said that in a term sheet to investors it was claimed to be worth $90 million but was actually doing 60K in business.

    8. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    9. SB

      What is the truth around that? Where was the- where was the lie told here?

    10. BM

      Yeah, so the Fire app and the Fire Festival really all come together at the same time. Um, it's crazy to think back like how- how quick I went down a bad path, but how quick everything happened as well during that time period. This is all 2016. Um, the Fire app was launched some point mid-2016, and the Fire Festival was, you know, conceived in September, October of 2016. So, it was all kind of around the same time.

    11. SB

      Why- why Fire Festival? How did that come to be? That- b- 'cause the Fire app came first.

    12. BM

      Yeah. Fire app came first, yeah.

    13. SB

      How did you get from there to Fire Festival?

    14. BM

      So we had a townhouse space, basically this clubhouse, if you will, for Magnises members, and one of the people working at the front desk, I lived a handful of blocks away, calls me one night and says, "There's this guy here who is building some crazy things at Google, but he says he flies planes and wants to fly you, and I think he's telling the truth. You have to come and meet him." So I ran over to the townhouse, I met this guy and like, absolute genius, like one of the best like developers of AI I've ever met in my life and, you know, he's gonna go on to, I think, change our world in very many ways. But he's like, "Listen, like, I fly for fun. I have a bunch of friends who do the same thing. We should take a few planes and do a trip to the outer islands of the Bahamas for your Magnises members." So, we'd been running these trips for years, and I found these outer islands to essentially be this like welcoming playground where there might be 10 people who live on the island who are just like so amazing and kindhearted and warm, and once you bring 18, 20, 24 people there from New York, everybody kind of drops like their pretense, and if you connect them around these like, almost like life-defying experiences and adventures, they really, really come together. So, it was running these trips for a number of years when I literally brought like one of these childhood friends that I mentioned, and Fire app had just launched. He said, "Hey man, you should totally do a music festival here for all Magnises members." So, that was the real person who came up with the idea, and that's how the Fire Festival happened.

    15. SB

      And where was- where was the- the first lie told in-

    16. BM

      Yeah.

    17. SB

      ... in the fundraising process? Was it on raising capital for the app? Was it capital for the Magnises?

    18. BM

      Yeah, so the- the- the Fire f- um, the Fire Festival app didn't raise much money prior to like the festival announcement. We came up with a festival idea in September of 2016, shot and released that promotional video that I think a lot of people saw in December of 2016, and announced a April of 2017 like launch date. So the period was super, super short. So, somewhere in like the weeks leading up to that December promotional video, I started lying, and that was lying to Fire apps investors, lying to Fire Festivals investors, lying about Magnises numbers. It all kind of hit when, "Oh shit, Fire Festival is real. We're announcing a festival. We have X number of months to build a city in the middle of nowhere. How the fuck are we gonna do this?" And that just like set me off down that- that path.

    19. SB

      From I th- from what I recall, there was four months between you announcing-

    20. BM

      Yeah.

    21. SB

      ... the festival and the festival happening. So you're going to the middle of nowhere.

    22. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    23. SB

      You've got to build sewage-

    24. BM

      Yeah.

    25. SB

      ... infrastructure, basically a city from scratch-

    26. BM

      Yes.

    27. SB

      ... at 25 years old-

    28. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    29. SB

      ... with ... out the capital to do it and without the experience in doing it, in four months, in 120 days.

    30. BM

      So stupid. So bad. (laughs) I think I- like on my 25th birthday, we launched the trailer for the Fire Festival, and I still didn't think it was real at that time. Like, we had these great trips with a few dozen people and those we could totally handle. We launch a trailer then I remember waking up like, you know, quasi-hungover five or six hours later-And we'd sold like a half million dollars of tickets.

  7. 33:34 – 37:32

    Are you a pathological liar?

    1. BM

      the help.

    2. SB

      Are you a pathological liar? This is a claim that-

    3. BM

      No.

    4. SB

      ... I've, I've, I've heard leveled at you by the judge in your case-

    5. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    6. SB

      ... by other people that were working on Fyre Festival-

    7. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    8. SB

      ... um, people in the documentaries.

    9. BM

      Yeah. I think like my entire mantra and drive right now is to form like super, super close relationships, and I want those six or eight people to never question my integrity. And I think like getting on a microphone and telling the world, "Hey guys, like, I'm not a pathological liar," it's like, yeah, shut the fuck up. But it's like I wanna feel pride where I can like go home tonight and I know like these six to eight people that I can call or they can call me, you know, we will have our backs. And I really don't have the answer in terms of like how I address it to the world, but it's like to those six to eight people, and you guys know who you are, like let's build that trust.

    10. SB

      Because that's one of the... Even when I was thinking about doing this interview, obviously, you know, th- the foundation of the Diary of a CEO is honesty.

    11. BM

      Yeah.

    12. SB

      And I'm thinking, after all this stuff I've seen in these documentaries, how do I know that he's not just gonna come here and bullshit me?

    13. BM

      Yeah.

    14. SB

      How do I know that I'm not gonna be one of the investors or one of the other people that was, was lied to? How do I know he's gonna give me the truth?

    15. BM

      Yep.

    16. SB

      How'd you receive that?

    17. BM

      It's just so hard to hear. (laughs) Like, it's, it's super hard to hear. And I think like natural reaction is to always like fight back and argue, "Oh, I'm not a liar." But then you just like... And it just like digs you down a further hole. So I think it's just finding pride in a different area and it's like I am highly flawed and like any c- claims made to the contrary are just, are wrong. And for whatever good ideas I've had, I've had, you know, 10 times as many bad ones. And like clearly I lied to the extent that I would really hope that the vast majority of the population like would never be comfortable doing. So yeah, h- highly, highly flawed and I think like the next 30 years of my life will be defined by can I focus on my skillset? Can I be honest with a small number of people around me and like can I get help in those areas where I clearly need it? (paper rustling)

    18. SB

      As you know, Intel are now sponsoring this podcast, and last week I introduced you to Intel Evo platform, the badge of approval for high-spec laptops that pass Intel's own strict requirements and enable you to be more productive on the go. As someone who spends most of their life on the go, it's Intel Evo that really caught my eye when we were discussing this partnership. The idea that Intel gives your laptop the seal of approval for you on all things like all-day battery life, fast charging, and high performance makes my life easier when I'm buying a new laptop because I know that if it's got that Intel seal of approval, then it's gonna be able to keep up with me. They've basically done all the hard work and research for you and confirmed it's gonna be able to keep up with your busy life on the go. Head to intel.co.uk/evo to find out more about Intel Evo platform. Also, for a limited time, you can currently get 15% off all Intel Evo devices at johnlewis.com. The code is EVOCEO15. That's EVOCEO15 until December 11th. So head over to johnlewis.com to check out the Intel Evo designs and get your 15% off. Terms and conditions apply. See more details in the description box.For many years, people have been asking for a coffee-flavored Huel, and quite recently, Huel released the iced coffee caramel flavor of their, um, ready-to-drink Huels. And I've just become hooked on it, uh, over the last couple of weeks. I've been on a really interesting journey with Huel, which I've described and talked about a little bit on this podcast. I started with the berry ready-to-drinks. Then I moved over to the protein salted caramel because it's 100 calories and it gives you all of your essential vitamins and minerals, but also gives you the 20-odd grams of protein you need. And now, I'm balanced between them both. I drink mostly the banana-flavor ready-to-drink. I've got really into the iced coffee caramel, um, flavor of, of Huel's ready-to-drink, and now I'm drinking that as well as the protein. Make sure you try the new ready-to-drink flavors. The, the caramel flavor's amazing. The, um, new banana flavor as well is amazing. And obviously, as I said, the iced coffee caramel flavor has been a real smash hit. So, check it out. Let me know what you think on social media. I see all of your tags and Instagram posts and tweets about Huel.

  8. 37:32 – 41:53

    Not wanting watch the documentary

    1. SB

      (paper rustling) You haven't watched the documentaries?

    2. BM

      No. At the first prison I was at, or, or sh- like, when they... at the period when they came out, the, uh, the guys got like, a USB stick with both the documentaries and watched them. And I was like... I literally went outside. I think I was like, one of two people who wasn't in the TV room watching the documentary, but couldn't do it.

    3. SB

      Why?

    4. BM

      I think at that time, I was still like... This is early 2019, so I was less than a year into my sentence. I think I was still like, in the combative phase where I just hadn't like, come to reality with everything that happened, and I was too scared to hear allegations or comments by other people and not be able to respond. And I like, realized like, being locked up and then having someone say something where it's probably like, 70% true and 30% false, I wouldn't have like, focused on or internalized the part that was true, even though that was probably most of it. I just would've gotten enraged by the false part, but I wouldn't have been able to do anything about it, so I felt like it was... I was not like, stable enough or mature enough at that time to, to watch it, and I probably still aren't- am not, but... (laughs)

    5. SB

      Really?

    6. BM

      Yeah.

    7. SB

      'Cause I was gonna ask you, the follow-up was wh- wh- why haven't you watched them now, then? If that was 2019, we're in 2022 now, so why st- y- haven't you watched them still?

    8. BM

      So, I caught myself the other day, someone asked me the same question, and I said... and I think this shows like, I'm not like, mature enough to watch it yet. I said, "No one..." and this is, is probably slightly true but exaggerated, I said, "No one real interviewed for the documentary." Like, why would any businessperson who has anything going on in their life, you know, attach themselves to the event? That's mostly true, obviously, but, but still, some of the people who did interview, I'm sure were, you know, sharing real stories of real things that happened. So I, I'm just... I'm, I'm not ready. (laughs) There's no way... I don't know why, but I'm not ready.

    9. SB

      Because of how it m- might make you... it might trigger you in some type of way, or...?

    10. BM

      I think so, and yeah, I just...

    11. SB

      I did ask myself.

    12. BM

      Yeah.

    13. SB

      I said, "Would you wa... If that happened to me, would I watch the documentaries?" And I'm gonna be honest, (sighs) I don't know. (laughs)

    14. BM

      Yeah.

    15. SB

      I don't know, but y- you must, everywhere you go now, have pieced together those documentaries, because people like me ask you these fucking questions.

    16. BM

      For sure.

    17. SB

      (laughs)

    18. BM

      (laughs) Un- unfortunately, I think I've, I've heard more than, than I- that I've wanted to, but I think I understand.

    19. SB

      Wh- how do you feel about the fact that like, probably for at least some time now, the centerpoint of conversations you have and interviews you do is gonna center on that? That's gonna like, that's gonna be a real defining thing for, for many that meet you.

    20. BM

      I think it's super interesting like, to think about personally, and i- it's almost like, weird, because a lot of the people who have watched the documentary, whether they're friends or family members of other people, their advice is like, "You are incompetent. You can't do anything going forward. Like, you know, go work some entry-level, like, desk job for 70 hours a week for the rest of your life and, and shut up." And I think it's kind of like, ironic, right? Because then you're stuck living with the remorse, the guilt, y- the failure of what you did before. And I think the other option is, can I go about it but go for it and go for it honestly? And if I fail, it's okay, but you know, at least take the swing, and like, which path would, you know, make you prouder? And I've chosen the latter, which might be right, it might be wrong. But I just think it's really weird to me how a lot of like, the close friends who have watched the documentary, almost all their advice has just been like, "You can't do anything now." And maybe they're right. (laughs) But it's like, that's been like... I think that's the hardest thing to internalize from the whole, like, after-effect process where we currently stand.

    21. SB

      Well, you've clearly got an internal bias to just prove everybody wrong.

    22. BM

      (laughs)

    23. SB

      Which doesn't seem to have left you, right?

    24. BM

      Yeah. Yeah.

    25. SB

      So when you hear that, the Billy that I, I mean, I've come to learn in the last, you know, couple of, uh, minutes that we've been s-

    26. BM

      Yeah.

    27. SB

      ... speaking together would just 100% use that as fuel, right?

    28. BM

      I think like, I find pride differently now, and when you're locked away for four years and 10 months, like, when you're alone or with a cellmate but like, in solitary confinement, you can't leave, you have to find pride in like, the littlest and wee- uh, weirdest things. And you know, once you leave, 95% of it is just like, irrelevant and goes out the window. But I think like, finding pride is where it stands, and do I wanna be the, the, the guy who's honest but quit or the guy who's honest but went for it, and then whatever the outcome is the outcome is? And like, to me, I can find more pride in that path.

  9. 41:53 – 45:10

    Your skills sets that enabled all of this

    1. SB

      Fyre Festival, you raised more than $20 million.

    2. BM

      Yeah.

    3. SB

      Now, that alone-

    4. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    5. SB

      ... is not an easy thing to do.

    6. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    7. SB

      You know, lying-

    8. BM

      Yeah.

    9. SB

      ... like, definitely aided that.

    10. BM

      Ph- 100%.

    11. SB

      But even if s- people were lying, even if someone was just purely lying, there's still an element of salesmanship-

    12. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    13. SB

      ... that goes into accomplishing such a big f- investment raise for a first-time music festival when you're 25 years old. What are your skillsets that, that made that happen? Let's just... lying and we, we put that on the table. You lied.

    14. BM

      Yeah.

    15. SB

      But what are the other skillsets that enabled that massive failure?

    16. BM

      So, I think just like taking a second to like dive into the lies and why it was so bad. I think there's like a misconception, at least from what I've heard, that I woke up one day, made a fake spreadsheet, which is totally true, and then with that spreadsheet, you know, went and raised a bunch of money. I think the reality is it's just like not that simple. You know, I can make a bad spreadsheet tomorrow without my background and you're just not gonna go and raise $20 million, right? It's like, doesn't go like that. I think the hardest part is the trust, is that the majority of the people who were backing me had either invested in me since I was 19 years old or had seen me work since I was 19 or were, you know, referred or trusted someone like who fell into one of those camps. So it was like six years of trust and failure and struggle that I had to go through to get to the position where I could even ask for that kind of money. So more than the lie about the revenue at the time, which I almost think is not as bad as betraying the trust of the years it took to get to that point where I was even in the position to lie about the revenue.

    17. SB

      So there's that trust building, which again, the jury's probably out on whether that trust was built honestly.

    18. BM

      Yeah.

    19. SB

      'Cause you talked about Magnises also being inflated in terms of the numbers-

    20. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    21. SB

      ... there being lies there. But then your personal skill, like what is it th- uh, in hindsight, you think, "Why did these people back me-"

    22. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    23. SB

      ... as an individual?" What are your skillsets? Like charisma or is it your ability-

    24. BM

      Yeah.

    25. SB

      ... to talk, your communication skills? What was it?

    26. BM

      I almost think that you could find similarities in these early trips that led to the Fyre Festival in some of the Magnises experiences, which is taking people who wouldn't usually meet, bringing them together, and then taking them to a place they've never been before, whether that's like a jet ski race at midnight (laughs) around these like uninhabited islands or like spearfishing for your own lobster with someone you've always wanted to meet. It's about just like connecting interesting people with like a tinge of crazy around these adventures and, like, those adventures could be physical, it could be virtual, but that's kind of always been, I think, what has intrigued backers. Whether that's a friend, a partner, a sponsor, an investor is to be part of that, you know, tornado of activity and connection and excitement.

    27. SB

      Interesting. So the people... So what I got from that is the people that invested in you wanted the same thing as the people that bought tickets to Fyre Festival. They wanted to be part of something really, really cool themselves.

    28. BM

      They wanted to meet interesting people and do interesting crazy shit. Like, that's like (laughs) that's the MO.

  10. 45:10 – 50:29

    The ‘urgent payment sheet/‘

    1. BM

    2. SB

      You ended up selling some 8,000 tickets for two weekends at Fyre Festival.

    3. BM

      Yeah.

    4. SB

      I mean, everyone remembers the orange tile campaign-

    5. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    6. SB

      ... and the use of influencers. I mean, Kendall Jenner, Bella Hadid-

    7. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    8. SB

      ... Hailey Baldwin, Emily Ratajkowski. And you shot this in- this promo video, um, in the Bahamas, which became pretty viral-

    9. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    10. SB

      ... because no one had ever seen that group of influencers together before.

    11. BM

      Yeah.

    12. SB

      Um, at that point, you know, you're now, you're now two months, three months out from the festival.

    13. BM

      Yeah. Crazy.

    14. SB

      You've sold these fucking tickets. This is when the lies get really-

    15. BM

      Bad.

    16. SB

      ... out there. Like, uh, in one of the documentaries it says that you put a villa up on the site for a quarter of a million-

    17. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    18. SB

      ... to try and raise some money that you didn't have, um, and then I read further and further and I, and I was trying to understand the world you were in that was causing you to continually lie and lie and lie, and I heard about this urgent payment sheet.

    19. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    20. SB

      What was this urgent payment sheet and how was that driving you?

    21. BM

      We were at the point where the timeline that I had come up with was just so off and ridiculous, it just like made all of the payments and vendors just kind of go through the roof in terms of like the cost to make something happen so quickly. And like we just had no money, right? And we were just trying to get money from any source, whether it was investors or sponsors or customers or ticket sales, consulting jobs. I was like, you know, wearing 10 hats trying to get the income we needed to fund the Fyre Festival. And the money crunch was so bad I'd literally wake up every day, you know, at 9:00 AM to a sheet where we had a list of every payment we had to make before the bank wire cut off at four o'clock that day. So, I knew that by 2:00 PM I had to have that money come into our account so the team had enough time to wire it out before the four o'clock wire deadline. And so I'd wake up some days and it's like, "We need $4 million by 2:00 PM." So I'd have five hours to go out, source the investors, come to terms with them, and actually get the money in the account or else we were dead in the water. And like-

    22. SB

      That day, $4 million?

    23. BM

      Yeah.

    24. SB

      You need $4 million.

    25. BM

      We managed to survive like this for almost 60 days and some days it was a hundred grand and some days it was $4 million. But like, it- it was, it was wild.

    26. SB

      On that day that it was $4 million-

    27. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    28. SB

      ... you got till 2:00 PM. What'd you do?

    29. BM

      Start- started calling investors and-

    30. SB

      Saying what?

  11. 50:29 – 54:42

    The mental health implications of all of this

    1. SB

      going back to my point about that urgent payment sheet-

    2. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    3. SB

      ... you just said that you'd wake up, like-

    4. BM

      Yeah.

    5. SB

      ... you'd wake up on days, look at the urgent payment sheet. You've got-

    6. BM

      Be like, "Oh, shit."

    7. SB

      You'd be like, "Oh, shit." Now I've s- I've sat here with, um, the CEO of a, one of the disruptive banks out in Europe called Tom Monzo and he talked about-

    8. BM

      Okay.

    9. SB

      ... the, like, mental torment. He had a, a, a red phone by his bed.

    10. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    11. SB

      He's running a bank here.

    12. BM

      Yeah.

    13. SB

      So, he'd wake up every day and he'd have a moment of, like, dread waking up because the stress and the pressure of, you know, having to run a bank. When you're waking up on those days-

    14. BM

      Terrible, yeah.

    15. SB

      ... what is the, like, the mental health implication? What did you feel?

    16. BM

      It was awful, and I think the one benefit and detriment that I had w- was an end date. Like, this is all gonna end on, whether right or wrong, like, on the festival date, right? We're either gonna succeed and, like, be champions or we're gonna drastically fail, and either way, like, let's go all in to try to make that happen.

    17. SB

      And what was the... You say the word awful. Take me into the world's, word awful. Give me a description of what that actually means in reality. What are the symptoms of that?

    18. BM

      I mean, I was fat as shit.

    19. SB

      Yeah.

    20. BM

      Like, my, my heart was out of rhythm. You know (laughs) ?

    21. SB

      Your heart was out, was out of rhythm?

    22. BM

      Yeah. Like, I think, like, lost interest in sexual relationships, lost interest in, like, friendship relationships that weren't transactional, and it became, like, all work and nothing else mattered. And, like, looked terrible, felt terrible, and I could just... It sucks and I can't imagine, like, the red phone at the bank because, like, that's never ending, right? Like, maybe you can say, "Hey, you know, I'll sell or hire a new CEO in seven years," but I can't imagine, like, that kinda window. That would... Yeah.

    23. SB

      Well, he u- ultimately quit after seven years building up the business.

    24. BM

      Uh, I don't know.

    25. NA

      Yes, there we go.

    26. SB

      I think it was valued at billio- billions when he quit.

    27. BM

      Yeah.

    28. SB

      And when he did a piece in one of the newspapers, he cited his, his mental health. Um...

    29. BM

      Yeah.

    30. SB

      Did you experience anxiety?

  12. 54:42 – 57:12

    Your insecurities

    1. BM

    2. SB

      ... is never a happy man.

    3. BM

      Yeah.

    4. SB

      Um-Are you ... this was a question I was pondering as I was reading about your story, is like, what are your insecurities? Because a lot of this seems to be driven by some kind of like-

    5. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    6. SB

      ... deep insecurity to, like-

    7. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    8. SB

      ... prove o- prove others right, to be the man, to be the guy-

    9. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    10. SB

      ... to throw the best party. And the validation on a psychological level, that must be giving some kind of insecurity, some hole it must be filling.

    11. BM

      For sure, yeah.

    12. SB

      What are your insecurities and what were they?

    13. BM

      Good question. Yeah. Let me think. Jus- I think the need, it always kind of came back as the need to prove this path, right? Of like, I don't need school. I don't need the path that we were all taught is the right path. Like, my path is better and it leads to more interesting and more exciting life. And like, I think I always knew that, but I was so insecure and I wanted to have everybody else believe it. And I would get frustrated when people didn't share those same beliefs as me. So, I think that's been part of the learning process as well is to understand that everybody can't believe and like the same thing, and that's okay, and like, not taking it personally when that happens.

    14. SB

      Have- Have you got any insecurities around women?

    15. BM

      I don't know.

    16. SB

      Yeah?

    17. BM

      Yeah. It's- It just seems-

    18. SB

      Yeah.

    19. BM

      ... to be centered on this desire to like, prove everybody wrong and like, fuck the system and like-

    20. SB

      Yeah.

    21. BM

      Um ... I still ha- I'm still not quite clear in my mind where that, where that came from.

    22. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    23. BM

      Was it, was he bullied in school? Was it, was there a teacher that said some shit to him that he couldn't do it? Was it his parents told him he couldn't do it?

    24. SB

      I think part of it is like, the curse of ... of things never being enough, right? And I- I guess I don't know what the derivation of that is, but you know, whether it's business success or friendship success, where you live, your home, your possessions, like, your, the- the love that someone has for you, especially during that time of my life, I was almost like, jaded into always thinking that it wasn't enough. Like, if someone loved me, they didn't love me enough, or if like, I had a great, like, day at work, the day wasn't good enough. And I think it all kind of c- come back to like, maybe I'm j- I'm thinking out loud here, maybe it was like the early exposure at like 18 and 19 to like, titans of industry, and then me comparing to them, where it's like, not feasible to get there without, you know, 20, 30, 40 years of work that they had put in. But it's like, I wanted everything at that level and I wanted it now. So, if you gave me this much, but it wasn't like where they were, I wasn't satisfied with it. So I think it was like, the early exposure combined with like, the impatience and need to have it.

  13. 57:12 – 59:47

    When you realised everything had gone wrong

    1. SB

      There's this really, um, well-publicized scene where you're stood on a crate-

    2. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    3. SB

      ... on the day of the festival. And you've got all of these partygoers around you-

    4. BM

      Yeah.

    5. SB

      ... kind of screaming and asking questions, and some of them a little bit drunk because they'd been off-

    6. BM

      Yeah.

    7. SB

      ... sent to a bar on the other side-

    8. BM

      Yeah, yeah.

    9. SB

      ... of the island when you were trying to sort of buy yourself time. What was going on when you were stood on that crate and what were you thinking and feeling? Were you shitting yourself?

    10. BM

      I mean, right now I realize just like how bad my management skills were at the time. Like, where the fuck is everybody? Like, we had, they weren't all full-time employees. A lot of them were like local contractors or whatever, but we had almost 800 people, you know, the day of the festival, like working there. And I just felt like I was surrounded by these people. I couldn't find any of my team members and I had, I'm not gonna name the publication, but I had a publication on the phone with me saying, you know, "We heard he ran off on your yacht with like cocaine and hookers." Like, I don't have a yacht, never done cocaine. Like, there were no hookers (laughs) . And but they're also live streaming me on the, on the cover of their web page. So I'm like yelling at them. I'm getting yelled at by like, you know, the 50 or 100 concertgoers right there. I just couldn't find anybody. But it just goes to show, I just like didn't have the systems in place to, or the knowledge to manage everything. But that was my first reaction is like, where the hell is everybody?

    11. SB

      I heard you made the decision to cancel the festival when someone incorrectly told you that people had died.

    12. BM

      Yeah. I was told shortly after that moment, maybe an hour or two later, that three people had died. Like, and thankfully no one was physically hurt, like at all to my knowledge. But I was told these elaborate stories.

    13. SB

      Who told you that?

    14. BM

      Uh, team members, employees. And I think the reality was, looking back now, is that concertgoers were like reading things on Twitter and then coming and running to employees and telling them this. But like, verified Twitter accounts, this is back in, what, '17? Where like announcing like, "Gunshots fired," like, "People hit." Like, it was going all over Twitter that people were getting shot (laughs) and things like that. And like, none of this was true. But by the time it got to me, the details were so vivid. I just didn't have like, the ability to like, step back, take a deep breath, recalibrate and try to like, think through the information. I was like, "Oh shit, people are dead. Okay, cancel this. Turn the plans around, get everybody home."

    15. SB

      How did that feel when you heard that? If someone in my team came to me and said that-

    16. BM

      Yeah.

    17. SB

      ... I was putting on an event and three people were dead already-

    18. BM

      Yeah. I mean, I just freaked out and said, "Get everybody out of here. Get everybody back to Miami." And that was like, that was the response. But yeah, I was just, phew. Just ... I just didn't have the ability to like, okay, like what's actually happening? How can we prevent this? It was more of just like a quick knee-jerk, "All right. Send everybody home. It's over."

  14. 59:47 – 1:01:39

    Did you ask Andy king to such a penis?

    1. BM

    2. SB

      One of the, I think, legendary moments from the documentary-

    3. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    4. SB

      ... which I know you've been asked about and heard about before, is when Andy King (laughs) says that he, you called him and asked him to suck a dick. Suck, literally suck a penis-

    5. BM

      Crazy.

    6. SB

      ... to have the water imported because the border agents had held it up. What's the truth in that situation? Like, did you ask him to suck a penis?

    7. BM

      I've heard so many variations of this story. And no, he was never ordered to go suck a guy's dick. (laughs) I think-

    8. SB

      He literally put mouthwash in. He- he was gonna suck- suck some dick. He was-

    9. BM

      Yeah. That's news to me. Or I mean, I've obviously heard the story many times, but I think the, the comment was in jest. Like, "Go suck this guy's dick. Get this water, like whatever it takes." More of like, you know, go suck up to him and get the water released. Like, do anything beyond paying this guy, right? Like, you can't, you can't pay the, the customs people. So like, go do whatever it takes and just convince him that our festival is gonna fail if people can't drink water.

    10. SB

      There's a r- he's, he's obviously a gay man.

    11. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    12. SB

      And the border agent was gay, right?

    13. BM

      Uh, I think so, yeah.

    14. SB

      So, the assertion in the documentary was because he was gay-You'd asked him to suck, suck a dick if he had to. And he-

    15. BM

      Yeah.

    16. SB

      ... he took that literally. So he, he says he, he went and put mouthwash in.

    17. BM

      (laughs) Crazy.

    18. SB

      And he headed down there fully prepared to suck a dick.

    19. BM

      I think that makes for good TV, but yeah, (laughs) I certainly don't recall it happening like that, unfortunately.

    20. SB

      (laughs)

    21. BM

      Crazy.

    22. SB

      Do you still speak to him?

    23. BM

      Um, I've heard from him recently. Yeah, so.

    24. SB

      Are you on good terms?

    25. BM

      Uh, he's a, he's a ... I think he's a good guy. I think he tried his best to, um, to help and unfortunately he was brought on pretty late in, like, the process.

    26. SB

      Hm.

    27. BM

      So, he wasn't there from the beginning, but I think obviously if he was willing to do that, he went above and beyond to-

    28. SB

      Yeah, listen, if I-

    29. BM

      ... try to make the festival happen and I'm sure ... Um, yeah, I wish him all the best.

    30. SB

      If I had a friend that was willing to go to those lengths for me, and I have no friend that would do that for me, um, I certainly would, would stay in touch and keep them on side.

  15. 1:01:39 – 1:02:39

    People losing their life savings

    1. BM

    2. SB

      Um, in the wake of Fyre Festival, what happens, you eventually fly back to New York. One of the scenes that really did get me in the documentary on an emotional level was watching that wonderful bo- Bohemian lady talk about how she lost her s- her life savings.

    3. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    4. SB

      Um, you know who I'm referring to, right?

    5. BM

      Uh, I do know, yeah.

    6. SB

      Yeah. Um, how- how'd you feel about that when you hear that? That some ... that locals who worked on that hadn't been paid and they're, you know, they're in ... They're not living privileged lives necessarily.

    7. BM

      Yeah. I mean, uh, it's terrible. And the reality is, there are people who are owed there, and they're owed for the last two weeks of work before the festival. I think everybody's a little bit different, but getting them paid back, super important to me and trying to find ways to start that process now. Um, I'd never met that lady before but, you know, her story is obviously super sad and, you know, um, I have heard from her through friends recently and, you know, hope we can figure out, you know, what is owed to everybody and start making those steps there. But yeah, un- unfortunately I've never met her, but hope to make it right by her.

  16. 1:02:39 – 1:04:55

    The FBI coming for you

    1. BM

    2. SB

      When you, when you leave the Bahamas after that event, you come back to New York.

    3. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    4. SB

      You come back to a shit storm.

    5. BM

      Yeah.

    6. SB

      Um, uh, y- I mean, i- i- the people that have given you, what, 26, 27 million dollars in cash-

    7. BM

      Yep.

    8. SB

      ... must be pretty mad.

    9. BM

      For sure. I, I land back on like, the Sunday night after the festival around midnight and then that morning early, the FBI is at my door. And I think like, the initial investors who got really mad thought that the whole festival was a hoax and that I had stolen the money and had it hidden somewhere and I was like, lying about the entire thing. And so, I just like, enter this whirlwind of, of hell.

    10. SB

      Your investors sti- like, basically went to the FBI?

    11. BM

      Yeah. Yeah, from, from, from what I understand, yes.

    12. SB

      What makes you ... What gives you that understanding?

    13. BM

      I, basically I was called and told what was gonna happen. It's like, like, "You fucked up. It's too late." Like, "Here's what's gonna happen now." And, and like, I was totally, totally guilty and I woulda gone to jail, like, if no one made that phone call. It just made the process happ- like, process kicked off faster, but once it kicks off, you know, it's outta the, outta the hands of the investors and into the justice system and, and I was black and white guilty. There was no gray area there.

    14. SB

      And your in- one of your investors called you and told you that if you didn't give them X dollar in cash-

    15. BM

      Yeah.

    16. SB

      ... they would, they would do more?

    17. BM

      They, they ... The exact lines were like, "We need this amount of money or else you're gonna be o- on han- in handcuffs on the front page of the Wall Street Journal." And I was like ... didn't have the money, first of all.

    18. SB

      How much was it?

    19. BM

      Uh, I don't wanna say 'cause then people will know who the investor probably is, but-

    20. SB

      Seven figures?

    21. BM

      Yeah. Yeah, uh, yeah, more than a million dollars. Uh, more than one, less than 10. So (laughs) , um, I didn't have it. Uh, uh, and then I was also kinda like certainly naive in my response. At the time, I just couldn't fathom like, that I was lying to investors, right? Like, I knew I was trying my best to make the festival work and the media's initial like, line of questioning and the guests' line of questioning as it was all falling apart was like, "This was a scam. You didn't try to do this." So, my reaction was like, "No, I tried. I'm trying my best." But I couldn't like, really understand the magnitude and the gravity of, of the crimes I did commit. So, I was still kinda fighting back like, "Oh, I didn't do anything wrong. I tried my best." Then of course like, I get back and realize, oh shit. I mean, it didn't happen overnight, but like, here's what actually happened. And yeah.

  17. 1:04:55 – 1:08:01

    Carrying on with the scams

    1. BM

    2. SB

      When you get, when you get back, um, the criminality doesn't stop though, does it?

    3. BM

      No. Uh-

    4. SB

      This is the bit, honestly-

    5. BM

      Yeah.

    6. SB

      ... that really f- got me in the document-

    7. BM

      Yeah.

    8. SB

      'Cause I was like, ah, man, you know, some could say young kid, negligent, inexperienced, his ambition was greater than his execution.

    9. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    10. SB

      Told loads of lies. At that point he, he learns his lesson.

    11. BM

      Yeah.

    12. SB

      But then for the criminality and lying to continue beyond that point with this NYC VIP access-

    13. BM

      Yeah.

    14. SB

      ... where you start selling fake tickets, give me the context. Why did that happen?

    15. BM

      Yeah. I've ... Many smart people have sis- (laughs) has said the same thing as you. And I was just caught in this process where okay, this investor, he didn't threaten me, but the investor kinda gave me an ultimatum. I blew him off and he was right. He got me arrested. It's all about the money. I have to pay everybody back now. All right. I'm gonna, I'm gonna get him his money and I wasn't like communicating with him at this point, but I'm gonna get him his money, I'm gonna pay everybody else back and then this is all gonna go away and I can solve this. And I thought that th- the proper response to a criminal process was to solve the problem when the proper response to a criminal process is to sit down, shut the fuck up and like, accept your punishment and just, just take it. And any other response is just like, the wrong way to do it, y-

    16. SB

      So, you were on bail.

    17. BM

      I was on bail. And like (sighs) it was all about this desire like, okay, now it's about the money. Let me pay people back. And back in the Magnises days, like, and the early Fyre days, brands would essentially pay us to like, host these events for our members or to invite members to, to random things and I would always get invited to these like, charity events and the charity galas and concerts and you know, a- award shows and whatever it may be. I can get plus one or plus two depending on it. And I thought like, oh, this is a great way to make money. I can just like, you know, call these brands back and ask for a favor and get a few spots and sell these tickets. I just like, was so stupid and so wrong and obviously couldn't fulfill what I was selling and like, fucked up and it, it's kept me awake at night.... just as much if not more than the festival, so we're on the same page there.

    18. SB

      So, so you had Hamilton, the Super Bowl-

    19. BM

      Yeah.

    20. SB

      You would, you would email people, cold call them, tell them you had tickets-

    21. BM

      Yeah.

    22. SB

      ... take the money. And then when the event happened...

    23. BM

      I would scramble and try to get it, and sometimes I could but m- many times I couldn't.

    24. SB

      And you would keep th- keep their money?

    25. BM

      I would refund it if the event didn't happen, but the problem was I was just so sold out for events in the future that I had no chance of actually fulfilling that, you know, when my bail got revoked and I got arrested, it was just, like, they lost their money. It was not possible.

    26. SB

      And you were doing, were you doing this in the Magnises days? I heard a story about Hamilton.

    27. BM

      Yeah.

    28. SB

      You said you had 200 tickets to Hamilton.

    29. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    30. SB

      Um, and then when the event came near, you just, like, randomly scrambled on, like, s- TicketHub or StubHub or whatever it is and bought the tickets last minute and would go an- and hand, hand them out, but then-

  18. 1:08:01 – 1:10:09

    Your relationship with lying now

    1. SB

      Um, your, your ability to be so comfortable with lying-

    2. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    3. SB

      ... at that point in your life is sk- terrifying.

    4. BM

      Yeah.

    5. SB

      It's ... one could almost say it's like, it's kinda, it's kinda (sighs) I don't know if I even nece- should say this, but kinda lucky that, like, it was, wasn't on e- an even bigger scale and it wasn't-

    6. BM

      Yeah.

    7. SB

      ... like, life or death-

    8. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    9. SB

      ... stuff that you were doing-

    10. BM

      Agree.

    11. SB

      ... in terms of ... You know what I mean? Because if you're that comfortable lying to people, that could've been (sighs) ... and you have the sales ability clearly-

    12. BM

      Mm-hmm.

    13. SB

      ... that could've been a ... Like, what ... How has your, uh, your relationship with lying evolved in the last couple of years since you've been in jail and you've come out? Like, honestly, how has it changed?

    14. BM

      Yeah. (sighs) The lies at the time, I think just the craziest part was how stupid it was from every level. Like, you know, you work hard to build relationships with friends, with loved ones, with supporters. And obviously as soon as you lie to them, it's gonna get found out, whether it's the next day or in a year or in five years, they're gonna-

    15. SB

      You didn't believe that.

    16. BM

      What?

    17. SB

      You didn't seem to ever believe that it would be found out.

    18. BM

      I didn't ... I always knew in the back of my mind they're gonna find out, but I convinced myself that if I had made them, if I gave them what they want, which I thought was happiness and success, it wouldn't have mattered.

    19. SB

      Okay.

    20. BM

      Like, that's where I went wrong. And it's like, okay, they're gonna know that our revenue wasn't this, but I'm gonna make the money and they're gonna have fun, so th- they're gonna love me still. And like (laughs) it's so crazy to think about now, but, like, that was the thought process. And that's, like, o- even, like, for the Magnises tickets, like, I t- if we oversold a ticket for an event, I was literally, like, running around s- when I came back to New York for a weekend, like, I'd go outside Madison Square Garden and pay, like, four times the price and make sure that person was, like, happy in the moment not realizing I just, like, lost a ton of money in the deal and actually hurt everybody else 'cause we were, we were losing money on it. So, I was, like, so focused on this, like, long-term goal, or short-term goal of happiness and success for everybody around me, and that's obviously driven due to insecurity and whatever these desires are, but yeah. Like, that was, like, my personal justification and crazy, but that's what it was.

Episode duration: 1:47:26

Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript

Transcript of episode xyP0ypFKtZ0

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

Add to Chrome