The Diary of a CEODrs. Amen & Sejnowski: How ChatGPT use raises dementia risk
How outsourcing thinking to ChatGPT may shrink neural engagement; cites the MIT study showing 47 percent lower brain activity and lingering cognitive debt.
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 11:30
AI, ChatGPT, and a Shocking MIT Study on Brain Activity
The episode opens with the claim that ChatGPT could raise dementia risk, grounded in a recent (non‑peer‑reviewed) MIT study showing a 47% collapse in brain activity when participants wrote essays with ChatGPT versus unaided. Steven outlines the study’s methodology and findings—lower memory, weaker neural engagement, and lingering ‘cognitive debt’—and asks brain experts Dr. Daniel Amen and Dr. Terry Sejnowski for their initial reactions and concerns.
- 11:30 – 26:20
Cognitive Load, Dementia Risk, and the ‘Use It or Lose It’ Brain
Amen explains how reduced cognitive load from outsourcing thinking to AI could raise dementia risk, drawing on research about lifelong learning, education level, and Alzheimer’s onset. Sejnowski adds historical context with calculators: they did reduce certain brain activity but also improved productivity—illustrating that tools bring both risks and benefits depending on how they’re used.
- 26:20 – 39:20
Psych Medications, Dementia, and Long‑Term Brain Risks
The discussion pivots to psychiatric medications and their unexpected links to dementia. Amen cites evidence that long‑term use of SSRIs and benzodiazepines is associated with increased dementia risk, alongside his own brain imaging observations. They emphasize that while these drugs can be lifesaving for the right patients, prescribing rarely considers brain imaging or long‑term cognitive impact.
- 39:20 – 52:50
How to Use ChatGPT Without Sacrificing Your Brain
Returning to AI, the experts draw a sharp line between healthy and unhealthy use. Bartlett describes his own dependence on ChatGPT and his fear after reading the MIT study. Amen and Sejnowski argue that if you simply hand off tasks to AI, you weaken your brain, but if you interact deeply, question outputs, and use AI as a tutor or critic, you can potentially improve cognitive representations and critical thinking.
- 52:50 – 1:05:20
Short‑Term Dopamine vs Long‑Term Brain Health
Bartlett argues that humans systematically choose short‑term rewards over long‑term health, whether in food, social media, or AI. Amen counters that people are under‑educated about how directly their brain health drives relationships, success, and independence. They debate whether awareness is enough to change behavior, given powerful dopamine‑driven incentives and environments designed to hijack attention.
- 1:05:20 – 1:16:00
Memory, Interaction, and Why ChatGPT Users Forget Their Own Work
They return to the MIT data on memory and neural activity. Amen explains why students using ChatGPT had far less activity in memory‑related regions and why 83% couldn’t recall what they’d just ‘written’: they weren’t part of the generative experience. Sejnowski stresses that only interactive, questioning use channels learning into durable neural circuits.
- 1:16:00 – 1:27:00
Politeness, Sam Altman, and Trust in AI Companies
An exchange about Sam Altman’s comments on ‘please and thank you’ prompts exposes differing priorities between AI companies and users. Sejnowski bluntly says he doesn’t trust Altman and sees the ‘don’t say thank you’ advice as profit‑driven, not user‑health‑driven. He argues that anthropomorphizing AI—treating it as a social partner—can actually make interaction cognitively easier and more engaging.
- 1:27:00 – 1:39:20
Children, AI in Education, and the Values Problem
The conversation focuses on childhood AI use. Amen is ‘hugely’ concerned that kids will offload thinking to AI instead of exercising their developing brains. Sejnowski sees potential in AI tutors that can individualize teaching, but emphasizes unsolved issues around embedding cultural values and moral frameworks into such systems.
- 1:39:20 – 2:06:20
Annie the AI, Pornography, and Hijacking the Limbic System
Bartlett demos ‘Annie,’ a flirtatious, sexualized AI persona in Elon Musk’s Grok system. Amen reacts with horror, linking such agents to the broader problem of porn exposure in young boys, limbic overactivation, and prefrontal cortex suppression. They discuss how AI companions might exploit dopamine systems at scale for profit, similar to Vegas casinos, and whether brains can distinguish AI love from human love.
- 2:06:20 – 2:17:00
Struggle, Grit, and Why ‘Perfect’ AI Partners May Harm the Brain
Amen and Sejnowski argue that human relationships—complete with conflict, mood swings, and imperfection—are cognitively enriching because they force adaptation, empathy, and behavioral change. A ‘perfect’ AI partner who never challenges you reduces cognitive load and diminishes opportunities to develop grit and emotional maturity.
- 2:17:00 – 2:30:00
Regulating AI and the ‘Sickest Generation’ of Youth
Amen calls AI a ‘horse out of the barn’ that must be tamed through legislation, research, and public education. He highlights devastating mental health stats for teenage girls and argues that smartphones and social media were unleashed without neuroscientific study; AI, being more ‘sexy’ and immersive, could be worse. Bartlett reflects on historical tech arcs and the inevitability of discovering trade‑offs late.
- 2:30:00 – 2:42:00
Self‑Regulation: How a CEO Uses AI Without Losing His Edge
Bartlett candidly describes his fear that AI use will erode his core skill: critical innovation. He contrasts a 30‑second prompt with his actual four‑hour memo‑writing plus AI critique workflow. Amen offers a mini‑protocol for safe AI use and insists on alternating AI‑assisted tasks with ‘brain‑only’ tasks to keep cognitive muscles strong.
- 2:42:00 – 3:02:00
Learning How to Learn: Spacing, Procrastination, and Cognitive Foundations
Sejnowski shifts to practical neuroscience of learning, drawing on his popular ‘Learning How to Learn’ MOOC. He explains the spacing effect, why cramming fails, how to tame procrastination with 20‑minute starters, and why rote practice (basal ganglia) is crucial. He frames breaks, sleep, and movement as essential parts of the learning process, not distractions from it.
- 3:02:00 – 3:18:00
Raising Brain‑Healthy Kids in a Distracted World
The conversation broadens to child brain health. Amen outlines how to prepare physically before conception, the importance of low stress during pregnancy, and the role of bonding, touch, and language in early development. Both stress modeling: parents’ own health habits, attention, and device use deeply shape children’s brains and values.
- 3:18:00 – 3:31:00
Religion, Hope, and the Brain’s ‘God Area’
Amen links belief in something transcendent to lower depression risk and greater purpose. He cites imaging studies suggesting believers have larger temporal lobes and discusses research on temporal lobe seizures, Persinger’s ‘God helmet,’ and his own prayer/speaking‑in‑tongues study, raising questions about whether the brain invents God or is wired to receive transcendence.
- 3:31:00 – 3:43:00
Designing a Brain‑Healthy Nation: Policy and Exercise
Asked how to make a brain‑healthy nation, Amen would force every department to ask whether their actions are good or bad for citizens’ brains. Sejnowski calls exercise the single best ‘drug’ for brain and body, and Amen outlines his BRIGHT MINDS risk‑factor framework to show how movement addresses nearly every major brain risk.
- 3:43:00 – 4:01:00
Breathing, Chewing, GPS, Noise, and Other Surprising Brain Modifiers
The experts rattle through everyday factors most people overlook. Amen gives a breathing protocol to increase parasympathetic tone, discusses chewing and ultra‑processed food, criticizes GPS overuse for weakening the hippocampus, and notes the subtle stress of chronic background noise. Together, they illustrate how modern conveniences quietly reshape brain structure and function.
- 4:01:00 – 4:17:00
ADHD, Depression, and the Brain: Imaging Insights
Amen shares imaging‑based distinctions within depression and ADHD, challenging one‑size‑fits‑all labels. They discuss rising ADHD diagnoses, possible roles of diet and digital overload, and surprising data that properly treated ADHD kids on stimulants may have larger prefrontal cortices. Amen stresses weighing the side effects of not treating disorders, not just medication risks.
- 4:17:00 – 4:31:00
Negativity, Hope, and Gendered Dementia Risks
Amen presents new data linking negativity bias to lower prefrontal activity and low hope to reduced insular function. He shares gendered findings on depression and Alzheimer’s risk, and Sejnowski mentions pandemic‑era depression spikes in women. Together, they argue that mindset (negativity vs hope) is not just psychological but neurobiological and prognostic.
- 4:31:00 – 4:45:00
Top 3 Brain Health Habits and the Role of Learning
Pressed to give only three brain‑saving habits, Amen chooses exercise, a daily positive framing question, and omega‑3 intake, then quickly adds continuous learning as a de facto fourth. They discuss combining physical activity with learning (e.g., audiobooks while walking) and even learning in a sauna, where increased blood flow may enhance memory.
- 4:45:00
Closing Warnings: Sleep, AI as Trojan Horse, and Doing It the Hard Way
In their final messages, Sejnowski highlights sleep and exercise as non‑negotiable pillars of brain health, especially for youth. Amen warns that AI could be a Trojan horse that steals cognitive capacity if we repeat past mistakes of unstudied tech adoption. Bartlett concludes by resolving to keep using AI, but to ‘do it the hard way’ when thinking and communication truly matter.
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