The Diary of a CEOCharlie Sloth: From Homeless, To Fire In The Booth, To An £800 Million Business! | E199
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,035 words- 0:00 – 1:53
Intro
- CSCharlie Sloth
Stormzy. Fire in the Booth. The minute he left that studio, I rang everyone and said, "This guy is a superstar." But then three years ago ... I've never told anyone this story. Three years ago ... It's your boy Charlie Sloth, BBC Radio 1Xtra. We're the biggest rappers on the planet. Just when you thought AU Vodka were done for yeah. My favorite part of the show. I was raised in an environment where not many people ever amounted to anything. It's not our fault, it's society's fault. Fuck society. So it was tough. We was living in a shed. My son had just been born. I couldn't afford nappies, and we had no toilet. That was the sacrifice that I had to make in order for me to become the person I needed to become. Fire in the Booth. You only ever do rap. Branding has always been so integral for me. The Fire in the Booth brand became a monster within the culture. There's not many people like me that understand culture and understand business in the same way I do. AU Vodka is a great reflection of that. We outsold Grey Goose twice over, three times as many bottles of Cîroc. Turnover of 80 million pounds this year.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You're joking.
- CSCharlie Sloth
No.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How much do you think this is valued at now?
- CSCharlie Sloth
800 million.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Jesus Christ.
- CSCharlie Sloth
We actually have a bible. So do's and don'ts.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Everyone wants to know what's in that bible.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Ah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What kind of things are in there?
- CSCharlie Sloth
I mean, it goes from ...
- SBSteven Bartlett
Before this episode starts, I have a small favor to ask from you. Two months ago, 74% of people that watch this channel didn't subscribe. We're now down to 69%. My goal is 50%. So if you've ever liked any of the videos we've posted, if you like this channel, can you do me a quick favor and hit the subscribe button? It helps this channel more than you know, and the bigger the channel gets, as you've seen, the bigger the guests get. Thank you, and enjoy this episode.
- 1:53 – 11:22
How my environment shaped me
- SBSteven Bartlett
Charlie, I'm a big believer on this podcast that our earliest years end up defining who we become and shaping who we are from a character standpoint, our perspective on the world, what we think matters, our values, and all of those things, and really decides which way we go off into the world and how we go off into the world. When I was reading about your early years, that felt more evident in this case than in the case of most guests I sit here with. So can you tell me, in those earliest years, when you look back as an adult now, what were the things, what was the context that ended up shaping you and who you went on to become in your life?
- CSCharlie Sloth
I think for me, um, coming from the humble beginnings that I did, I feel like I was raised in an environment where not many people ever amounted to anything. So there was no one for me growing up who I looked up to as a role model per se. It was more, you know, family members for me that gave me the confidence and inspiration to do better in life. But I feel at the same time, me coming from that environment colored me and toughened me to become almost, I felt like, growing up invincible because, you know, growing up seeing friends get killed, go to prison. When you survive that, it almost makes you feel like, "Wow, I'm indestructible." Especially at a young age, and I've always been very confident and had loads of self-belief, but I feel like it set me up to want to, A, prove people wrong because I felt like w- I was never given any opportunities or chances to, you know, better myself or be the person I am today. You, you know, I ... When I was 17, I didn't even know what university was. I had no idea what university was. When you think about that now and put that in perspective, that's crazy. I had no idea what university was. When I was younger, I wanted to be a director. I wanted to make movies. And I never had no insight into how that made that ha- how to make that happen. My teachers were like, "You'll be a plumber, electrician, or a chippy at best if you do well." So for me, I was kind of like, "Huh? There's got to be more to life than that." And I was always very inquisitive. I always wanted to know how things worked or why things didn't work or how, how you do this and how you do that. I was always very up on self-education. So I feel like those early years of my life really shaped who I am today, you know, how I treat other people because obviously my mum was the cleaner. So, you know, when I'm in a, a, a corporate building or, you know, wherever I am in the world, I'll always treat that person with the same respect that I'll treat the CEO that I'm meeting that day or that I'm doing business with that day, because that cleaner was my mum. So I have a different view and perspective on life and on people, and I think that's put me, you know, in a great position in life, especially with my people skills and how to treat people, which I feel is a massive part of why I am where I am.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What about your father?
- CSCharlie Sloth
My father was an electrician. Very strict. Very, very strict man. Very disciplined. And as a young ... As, as, as a young kid, you know, we didn't always see eye to eye. Um, and I always felt like he f- like, favored my sisters and he would always make comments to me, "You'll never be as suc- as successful as I am." And a- as a kid, I'm like, "Whoa." Like, "What are you talking about, Dad?" And it's mad. This is, this is a funny story. My dad used to always say that to me, "You'll never be as successful as I am." And as a, as a child, I always thought that he meant in terms of monetary success. That's what I viewed as success. But then three years ago ... I've never told anyone this story. Three years ago, I took my family away, my whole family, for Christmas, and me and my dad had a drink. And I'm like, "Dad. Like, just look around you, Dad. Look at everything that I've got."... and everything that I've achieved. You said I'll never be as successful as you. And he said to me, "Son, I was never talking about money. Money's never been a thing for me. I've never chased money in the same way you chase money. I was talking about you and your sisters and your mother." And I had to stop, and I'm like, "Why are you talking about that?" And he said, "Look at the man you've become. Look at the women your sisters have become. I am successful as a father. You're all winners." And it's true. Me and my sisters, we're all winners. Like, my sister's got an incredible job. My youngest sister's got a, a incredible job, a credible business.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I can't help but think you, you beat him, so he moved the goalposts. (laughs)
- CSCharlie Sloth
Maybe.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- CSCharlie Sloth
(laughs) Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. My dad's pretty good at that, to be fair.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. (laughs)
- CSCharlie Sloth
But it sto- uh, it made me think. It made me stop 'cause I've always-
- SBSteven Bartlett
But it's fact.
- CSCharlie Sloth
... to be fair, I've always used that as motivation without even knowing it. And, and then to that point, I never really assessed the situation in a way that I should have because I'd always used that to drive me on to be like, "Come on, Dad. Like, I'm light years ahead," without having that conversation, having that conversation with myself in my head. Until I had that conversation, I didn't really sit down and read deep why I was thinking like that. And I think it almost... There was a weight that lifted from my shoulders once I'd had that conversation. I think likewise for my dad, you know? Um, like, I think it, it, it s- it, like, it changed the dynamics of our relationship somewhat. But when I do look back at the things that he would say and the things that he would do, he was like a coach, like the ultimate coach. You know, like, he, he would inspire and motivate me without pampering me, without mak- making me soft. He would say things that he knew was harsh, or he would discipline me in ways that h- he knew were harsh and he probably felt bad about at the time. But he had a plan for how he wanted me to turn out. And, you know, look at me now. And he played a big part of that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What about money? When people come from backgrounds... I mean, you grew up on a council estate, right?
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When people come from those backgrounds and money is a center point of, like, the relationships in the household. It's the, the cause of the arguments, it's everything, right?
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's always there in a conversation. When we become adults, we can sometimes have, like, an unhealthy pursuit or relationship with money.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It can control our decision-making a little bit too much. So, as it relates to your relationship with money at that point, growing up, and how that kinda orientated you as you became a young man, what was your relationship with money?
- CSCharlie Sloth
I think, for me, money was a necessity. If we didn't have money, or if I didn't make money, additional money for my family home, we never had gas, we never had electric, we never had food. And growing up, for me, I was like, "This can't happen. I need to change this. I need to make effort myself, not rely on my parents or my sisters to get out of my way and change this." And from a young age, I was, I was always about... You know, from when I was 12 to wh- up until I was 17, I was always about making money. And that, for me, was the drive. How do I make money? I need to make more money. You know, it started with me selling sandwiches because I couldn't afford lunch dinners. I weren't getting free dinners at the time. Um, so my mum used to make me a packed lunch. And I remember going to school, selling the sandwiches, selling the crisps, selling the drink, making a fiver. And I was like, "Wait a minute. I can just replicate this." So then I started going and buying a loaf of bread, salami, some salad cream, some lettuce, and then I started making 10 sandwiches, selling all the sandwiches. And then throughout a two-year period, it, it extended to me buying cigarettes, buying 20 cigarettes and selling the cigarettes for a pound each. Sometimes five pound, depending on how desperate the person who, who was, who was trying to buy the cigarette from me. And I would always save the money that I'd make and reinvest it to make more money. And then by the time I was, I'd say, 21, my idea of chasing money had changed somewhat. It, it became very apparent for me that I weren't happy chasing money. I weren't about chasing the money. I still understood the value of money and knew how important it was for me to make money. But I made a decision around 2021 that I was gonna focus on something that I loved and that I was very passionate about, and allow the financial rewards to follow that. Rather than doing it the other way around, chasing the money by doing things that I'm not so passionate about and I don't really care about and I can't see it ever making me happy.
- 11:22 – 13:56
Tower Block Dreams
- CSCharlie Sloth
- SBSteven Bartlett
Before that point, I was reading about your, your running with the law.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And it's pretty, pretty severe.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah. I mean, where I grew up, you know, like I said, it was tough. And I made a lot of bad decisions as a kid.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I was watching Table Lock Dreams.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- CSCharlie Sloth
A lot of that was bravado.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Got you.
- CSCharlie Sloth
And that show, a lot of that was bravado at a time where I felt like I had to portray a certain image to be accepted in a community that I felt like that was the cool thing to do and the cool way to act. A lot of that was bravado.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Was there any truth to any of that?
- CSCharlie Sloth
I mean, there was, there was some elements of truth to some of the things that I got caught up in as a kid, um, that, you know, I regret and I live with that regret every day of my life. But...... again, you know, I was a product of my environment and I'm lucky enough that I was able to escape that environment to become the man I am today. And going back to what I was saying before, all of these incidents have shaped me to become the person I am today. So, of course, like, I regret a lot of the things that I got caught up in as a child. And there, I was a child, I wasn't a man at any point.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you look back at that kid in that documentary, Tower Block Dreams...
- CSCharlie Sloth
I'm embarrassed.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- CSCharlie Sloth
I, yeah, I, I cringe. I can't watch it. I cringe. But, at the same time, there's a certain, there's a certain amount of warmth that I feel just watching how much I've progressed and grown as a man. And to look back at that now, for me, it's just like, "Wow. Wow." But at the same time, I feel like, you know, the amount of messages that I get every day about how inspiring that is to people that are living in certain circumstances very familiar to those that I was living in back then. And I feel like it shows a generation for me that right now seems very lost, very scared, very confused, that it's possible, that if you believe in yourself and you apply yourself and you put everything that's expected of you to the side and just do what feels right for you, anything's possible. And I'm living proof of that. Like, I'm here today, you know, one of the most successful hip-hop DJs in Europe. I own multiple brands and I'm still doing what I love, when I was told that that wasn't possible.
- 13:56 – 23:15
Self-belief & hard times
- CSCharlie Sloth
- SBSteven Bartlett
When I watch those videos, outside of the bravado, um, which you d- you described there, what I did see was a young man that was incredibly hungry.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It was, as you say, it's someone that was trying to change their life. In fact, I, I went to, to a prison the other day and spent like five or six hours in a prison talking to the inmates, and I saw the same kind of like ambitious kinda desperation to get out of that situation and to turn things around. And that's what I saw in that young man, was, outside of all that stuff, there was a man there that really, really wanted to be successful and really wanted to get on. And it's so funny 'cause you say, like, it was... You didn't have the ideas. Nobody had given you the ideas. Your environment hadn't given you the ideas. You didn't even know what university was.
- CSCharlie Sloth
I had no idea. At that point, I had no idea. And when you think about that, that's bizarre. How, how does a 17-year-old young man not know what university is? And that's because nobody had told me. And none of my friends were going to university. I didn't know one person that had gone to university at that age.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Goes to show how much information is a privilege.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Oh, of course.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You know what I mean?
- CSCharlie Sloth
Information is everything. And of course, at that, at that time, there was no internet. So for me to self-educate in the way I do now, it wasn't possible back then. But yeah, you're right. My hunger and passion was there, and I feel like that's what set me apart. You know, there's times when I've sat there... And I'm always my wor- my own worst critic. I'll always review myself and I'll sit there and... I, I wouldn't say I meditate, but I like to reflect. I like to look within to find out what I'm doing right, what I'm not doing so well, and just where I'm at in life in terms of perspective.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm.
- CSCharlie Sloth
And there was a time, maybe three years ago, when I was sat there, and I'm questioning myself almost. I'm like, "You know, what is it that's made me become the person I am? Like, why have I been so successful? Is it luck? Have I just been lucky?" I'm asking myself these questions. And then, you know, I'm, I'm thinking about my old friendship groups and where a lot of those are in terms of life, and some of my new friendship groups. And after reflecting for several hours and sitting there and questioning myself, the one thing that was very clear that separated me from everyone that I'd met throughout life and had been part of my journey was my self-belief. Like, I've always believed that impossible is nothing. I can do it. As long as I've had that mindset about things, I've been able to accomplish it. And part of that same, you know, analysis of myself was going back to the imagery that I'd put up around in my studio and how I went about achieving those certain goals and targets that I'd set myself. And it was almost like I had achieved those things subconsciously for me. Like, I had set myself a target, and they were, they was all around my room, but I wouldn't sit there every day thinking, "I want an orange Porche."
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Yeah.
- CSCharlie Sloth
"Porche. I want a massive, um, detached house with land." I didn't sit there and think every day about those things, but they, they were around me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- CSCharlie Sloth
And they were part of my environment. And in the same way, when I was younger, my environment had a huge influence on who I was and how I behaved. Once I stepped out of that and created my own environment, my own universe, if you like, which, uh, was surrounded by all of these things that I wanted to achieve, I started achieving them subconsciously, unknowingly, without having a real formula to how I'd achieve them.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- CSCharlie Sloth
So now I'm sitting there thinking, "Wait a minute. So how, how did I actually do that?" And then it always comes back to the self-belief. Because the moment I believe in something, if I can visua- visualize what I'm trying to achieve-... I know it's possible.
- SBSteven Bartlett
The analogy that I've come to, like, really believe in, based on having these conversations with people who have all, a- a- to some degree, subconsciously... 'Cause you're saying that I didn't consciously sit there every day and think about it and make a plan. It was just in my subconscious, so, so my... I drove towards it. It's this, this analogy of the car, right? The sat-nav and, and the, and the pedal. You gotta set the sat-nav, and you've gotta push the pedal. If you do one of them, if you just push the pedal-
- CSCharlie Sloth
I love that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... you're gonna get lost.
- CSCharlie Sloth
That's a great analogy.
- SBSteven Bartlett
'Cause if you set the sat-nav but don't push the pedal, you're gonna be in your garage all day.
- CSCharlie Sloth
I love that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You know what I mean? And that... And you did both, clearly. You had the drive to push the pedal, but you also knew the direction of travel you wanted-
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... to go in. In those early years, though, I was watching a talk you did. Uh, I think it was on the BBC's channel to a group of what looked like students about-
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... living in a shed.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And then your manager giving you some advice.
- 23:15 – 29:04
The beginnings of Charlie Sloth
- CSCharlie Sloth
to move the needle. And that's what it was for me. So I'd wake up every day, 5:00 AM, and in my head, I've got a four-hour head start. Before anyone's even started work, I'm four hours up on you where I've got no distractions, no emails, no phone calls, no texts. Four hours just focusing, doing what I needed to do. And then I had the rest of the day for everyone to play catch-up. And that's what I was doing in my head. And there were times th... Over a two-year period this was, there were times when, you know, people are sitting down and saying, "This ain't never gonna happen, Charlie. It's just not gonna happen. Like, you need to be a realist." And their doubt almost made me doubt myself even more. But I knew that if I kept putting in the effort and the work that I was putting in at that period in my life, something was gonna give. And it did. Now, this is, you know, when YouTube first started, very fresh. People were doing the vlogs.And my manager at the time was saying, "You got to do a vlog. Let everyone see your personality. People will fall in love with you." And I'm like, "No way. Oh, that is so corny. Everyone's doing it. Everyone's doing it." And from a young age, my thing was always be, be disruptive. Be as noisy and as loud and as different as you can possibly be. And I still, to this very day, apply that to everything that I'm doing. So I was like, "No, no. I can't do a vlog. Everyone's doing it. I'm just gonna be like everyone else. I need to do something different." So we came up with, um, being Charlie Sloth, where at the time I played, like, seven, eight different characters in a show. All wore different outfits, different uniforms. All had their own personality. Um, so you had the cameraman, the editor, the manager, the street team, the artist, uh, the web designer. And they each played on stereotypes of what I felt those person, those people were. And, um, I made the first episode, and I spent ages on it. So long 'cause I wrote it myself, I filmed it myself, I edited it myself. And we put it out on YouTube, and it done a few thousand views. And I was... I remember the feeling. I can still, I can almost feel the feeling of disappointment that I felt 24 hours after that going live on YouTube. Thinking like, "Wow, I've just spent all that time making this..." The first episode was like 40 minutes long. And it's genius. I'm thinking this, "No one's ever done anything like this. And nobody's watching it." And I thought, "You know what? This may be the sign that I needed to actually call it a day." I was so disheartened. And the next thing you know, we get a message from worldstarhiphop.com saying that they wanted to take it on exclusively. And that was a huge, huge defining moment in my life and in my career. Because not only did it give me the break that I needed within the industry, but it also gave me this new lease of life in terms of self-belief. And made me understand that the work and self-belief that I'd had in myself wasn't a waste of time, and that there are people paying attention around the world. Even when you think people ain't looking, they are. And for me, I feel like that really changed my outlook on life and on myself. And from there, there was no looking back. Like, beast mode was fully activated.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- CSCharlie Sloth
And there was nothing and no one that was gonna stop me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You know what's really interesting is when we think about self-belief, the self-belief you had, we almost assume that it can't exist in the same place as doubt. But it completely rang true for me, that I, I was such a self-believing person. I think the most self-believing person I had met when I was, you know, in the early stages of my career. But at the same time, when I look at my diary, 'cause you know, we all recount these stories in hindsight to say, "I had so much self-belief. I was
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... de da. I knew exactly where I was going." Bom, bom, bom. And it happened. Whereas when I look at my diary, I can see the self- self-doubt.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And it was, it'd come from other people that like, "Maybe they're right." That c- that voice of like, "Maybe they're right."
- CSCharlie Sloth
Do you know what? A lot of people that are successful that I speak to, I think it's hard for a lot of people to admit that they doubted themselves at some point on their journey. I still doubt myself today.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hm.
- CSCharlie Sloth
There's still times when num- even though I've achieved some incredible things throughout my career, I'm, I still doubt myself. But that's the pessimist in me that gives me balance. I feel like if I never had that, I feel like that self-belief could almost turn into arrogance. And that's something that I've never wanted to happen. So I feel like when I chat to people, especially people that are grounded, it feels like that's a, a safety mechanism that we instill in ourselves and program in our minds to keep ourselves grounded and humble. Because any time I spoke to people that don't really have that or don't really want to admit self-doubt, they're the ones that are bordering on
- 29:04 – 32:22
The lack of role models
- CSCharlie Sloth
the line of arrogance.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Those people typically t- tend to come from a slightly different background to yours as well. I think in y- because, you know, if you'd grown up in a family where everyone was a billionaire-
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... you saying that you want to do this or this, p- people would be like, "Easy, Charlie." (laughs)
- CSCharlie Sloth
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
"Yeah, I'll connect you to the guy now."
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But growing up in that background, you're constantly con- where nobody's doing what you wanna do, you're confronted with, with, um, that negative pessimism because that's what people feel about themselves around you.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
"Why could you do that? How can you become that person?" You know, "I've n- they don't live round here." When I came up, Jamal, for me, was the, the onl- was the Black guy that had made, become successful in business.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I stalked that kid on Skype. I told him years later when we became friends, like, "You were the bridge." And when kids come from your background, they don't have that bridge. I, I think it's, it's a shame. It's a real shame.
- CSCharlie Sloth
It's, it's a massive shame. And you still see it today. I mean, you know, but that's, again, that's, that's being from that environment. You know, no one wants the working class to be inspired. No one wants the working class to believe that they, they don't have to be working class. This is a choice. You know, like, it's, it's, it... From a young age, it's programmed in us from our parents, you know, that this is what you have to do to have a good life. You have to go to school. Then you go to college. If you're lucky-... you can go to university. Then you get a job, then you find a partner, then you get a mortgage. Then you're trapped, and then that's it. The moment you enter that agreement with the bank is the moment you're trapped, in my opinion. There's no... You, you can't really escape at that point, because you have commitments. You now have to go to work to pay that mortgage every month. And it's at that point where you become a part of the system. And s- the sad thing is, most of the working class youth of today don't know any better. And that's why you find a lot of the kids from that environment looking up to the drug dealers, the fraud guys, because they're the only guys that have ever seen financial success in those communities. So they're not gonna look up to a doctor, or a lawyer, or a dentist, because there are none. The moment that shifts is the moment the mentality of our kids, of this generation, will change. And I think it's changed slightly now because obviously the internet has given everyone a much broader vision in terms of what's possible. But there's still a lot of the youth that don't really use the internet in that way. And when you think about that, that's insane. There's still a lot of families that haven't got a computer or a tablet at home, and this is a real thing. You know, because I, I spend a lot of time doing things in... with the youth and trying to give back and trying to inspire and encourage the next generation. And some of the conversations that I have, I'm just like, "Whoa." You know, like, go and buy this kid an iPad.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- CSCharlie Sloth
I'm just saying, go and get him an iPad right now. It's, it's, it's mind-blowing. It's mind-blowing.
- SBSteven Bartlett
On that point of, you know,
- 32:22 – 41:42
Fire In The Booth
- SBSteven Bartlett
seeds, planted seeds, wh-... I think your story is the most perfect examples of how seeds you plant can end up changing your life, not just for you, but all the seeds that were planted on your platform that changed lives.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And we'd like... I see it here so often with people who tell... you know, gold medal Olympians or they've got a bi-... hundred billion dollar company, whatever it is, and you see at some point, they planted some seed without really knowing what the consequence would be. And maybe three years later, maybe five minutes later, that seed unexpectedly changes their life. That day when you mi-... started making Being Charlie Sloth and it went on WorldStarHipHop... For anybody that doesn't know WorldStarHipHop because maybe you're so young or you just, you've not been watching, WorldStar was the cultural hip-hop website of my whole childhood.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah, the biggest in the world.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, it was like YouTube for...
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It was like YouTube when I was growing up.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah, it was like YouTube for the, the rap market.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And they picked the videos that went on there.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So you couldn't just upload it yourself. Um, it was the biggest, millions and millions of views, um, you were getting a week on that, on that platform-
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... when you, when you eventually... when they found you. But that idea of planting seeds, you must have seen that over and over again-
- CSCharlie Sloth
Oh, for sure.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... on Fire in the Booth.
- CSCharlie Sloth
For sure, for sure. I mean, like, you know, initially, you know, that was a massive crossroad in my career. Do I go back into what my passion was, you know, music, producing, DJing? Or do I stay on this road of Being Charlie Sloth, which is ultimately acting/ comedy-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- CSCharlie Sloth
... if you like? Um, and it was because I could see the potential in the platform at BBC One Extra that I made that decision. And it wasn't so much about me, and I... when I look back at that now, that I was very selfless, because I could have taken a big check at the time. But this goes back to, again, what I was saying, it weren't about the money. I could have taken that check and I don't know where I'd be now. But being the man that I was with money, I've always been very good with money, I would have... I would have made that money into more money. But I was like, "It's not about that. This is about the next 10 years и what can I do not only for me but for the community."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Did the BBC see the WorldStar videos? How did that, how did that come-
- CSCharlie Sloth
They saw the WorldStar. So it was actually DJ Semtex-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Ah, okay.
- CSCharlie Sloth
... um, great friend of mine, uh, great... one of my peers, someone who I've always looked up to and respected. Um, he was going on tour with Dizzee Rascal on world tour and needed someone to cover his show. So he got me and Wretch 32 to come and cover the show. So me and Wretch covered, I believe it was five or six shows, and then, you know, the response was insane that they offered me and Wretch 32 our own show. So they offered a show to me and Wretch 32, and me and Wretch spoke about it and we was like, "It's a no-brainer. Let's do it." So we agreed terms with the BBC, and the night before they was gonna anno it, Wretch called me at early hours in the morning. He's like, "Charlie, I've been thinking about this non-stop." I'm like, "What's that?" He's like, "I'm not gonna do the radio show, bro." I'm like, "What?" He's like, "Bro, I hope this don't mess things up for you, but I really believe that I can crack this music thing." So I was like, "Bro, I wish you all the best. Look, man, I'm just gonna go and do the LA thing, the Being Charlie Sloth thing. Bro, kill the music." So he's like, "Ah, thanks, bro. It means a lot." So the next day BBC ran me this like, "Ah, you know, Wretch don't wanna do it. Probably won't work with just you on your own." So I was like, "Cool." Like for me, I... it was no skin off my back. I'm like, "I'm doing this Beni-... Being Charlie Sloth stuff, I'm getting millions of views, all the American rappers know me, they all wanna do stuff." I'm kinda like, "Cool. The BBC is cool." Even though at the time, uh, in my head I was like, "I can do so much here. I can, I can really move the needle like no one has."
- SBSteven Bartlett
You'd already started dreaming.
- CSCharlie Sloth
I had started putting things in place in my head and planning.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- CSCharlie Sloth
So I was like, "It's cool, don't worry." And then a few days later, uh, Rebecca Frank rang me back. She's like, "Listen, um, I've had a chat with the, with the management and I've convinced them that you can do it. Do you, do you still wanna do it?"And in my mind, I'm like, "Yeah, I do." (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- CSCharlie Sloth
"I'm so bad." But obviously, my team at the time were all set on going stateside. They just got my O-1 visa. I'm, you know-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- CSCharlie Sloth
... ready to go. And, um, I said, "Yeah, you know what? Let's do it." But I didn't tell my team. And it weren't until the aneur went out that they were like, "How are you gonna do this? It's impossible." And I was like, "Well, uh, I'm actually gonna do the radio thing, and I'm not gonna do the Being Charlie Sloth thing." And obviously, they're like, "You are insane. Have you lost your marbles?" At the time, when I first joined the BBC, I was getting 140 pound, I believe, a show. So I was only earning 140 pound a week working for the BBC. So when you think about that, even when I think about that now, you know, there's this huge perception and illusion that DJs earn ridiculous amounts of money. Now they do. I mean, let's be fair, you know? I've done all right, and there's other DJs that trump me. Um, but at the time, you know, going, accepting an, uh, contract, (laughs) a year contract at a time for 140 pound a week, you know, to go on, be on the BBC rather than a six-figure deal in LA, I think most people, especially, you know, managers in general are very straight-thinking.
- 41:42 – 49:56
Your brand's integrity and deleting episodes
- CSCharlie Sloth
- SBSteven Bartlett
When it comes to building a brand that has integrity-
- CSCharlie Sloth
Right.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... what matters? You know, this is a brand.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And, and I think, you know, a lot of people-
- CSCharlie Sloth
It has integrity.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I hope so.
- CSCharlie Sloth
But I think because you have integrity, I think because you have integrity, you instill your morals into the brand. And this brand is a reflection of you. I think, like, pretty much everything you do speaks about you as a person because I feel like I'm the same. I feel like if it challenged my morals, I wouldn't wanna do it because I'd be like, "Well, that's... That's not a real reflection of me. Why would I invest my time or my money, my energy into something that doesn't represent me?" And I feel like my team, you know, I have an amazing team, do an incredible job of managing the expectations of all of the brands that I'm involved with. And I don't even have to say it no more. If I, if s- if I feel like something's wrong or...... it's not gonna work, it doesn't look right for the brand, they know before it's even come to me, because they know what my morals are. They know what I stand for, what I don't stand for, what I feel is right. So it's got to the point where I don't even have to have those conversations because I have such a great team who have those conversations for me, and they protect the brand. I feel like if something goes wrong with one of the brands, it's a reflection on me. And something that I've always believed is one of my biggest assets is my reputation. I feel like you may not like me, you may hate me, you might find me annoying, but one thing you can't challenge is my reputation. I've never done anyone dirty, ever. I've never backstabbed anyone. I've never said I'm gonna do something and not done it. And my brands have to hold up that same ethos.
- SBSteven Bartlett
In order for your team to know what decisions you'd make before, you know, it even comes to you-
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... as it relates to the branding, the positioning of it, and all those things, that must first start with you being really, really clear. And what I've got from all of that is, because you're so clear in your head and non-negotiable about what this brand is, you've been able to kind of, like, install that in all of the people around you. So now they are like disciples of the values.
- CSCharlie Sloth
For sure. Well, we have, we actually have a bible.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, really?
- CSCharlie Sloth
We actually have a Fire In The Booth bible, a handbook to dos and don'ts. And especially now, because, you know, the vision of Fire In The Booth has gone from being, uh, a feature on a radio show to being a global brand, you know? Obviously, now we're with Apple, you know, one of the biggest companies in the world, who I believe share the same ethos as we do in terms of vision, in terms of content consumption. And I feel like now, the brand really is going global.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Everyone wants to know what's in that bible.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Uh-
- SBSteven Bartlett
What kind of things are in there?
- CSCharlie Sloth
I mean, i- i- it's, you know-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Give me a flavor.
- CSCharlie Sloth
It goes from camera setup-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- CSCharlie Sloth
... to edits, colors to use, um, right through to, um, how artists are treated once they're, once they arrive, communication with teams. Um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
One of the things I found really interesting is I read that you deleted potentially hundreds of episodes of Fire In The Booth that just didn't cut it.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Which, which I think a lot of people would be surprised by because, you know, a, a rapper, an artist comes down, they perform, they might think it's gone off, they might think that, you know, they killed it. And then you're sat there thinking, "This doesn't meet the standard."
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah. I feel like, you know, I feel there's times when I've not released a Fire In The Booth and an artist later on has gone on to thank me. Because, you know, it's a big moment in an artist's career, and I feel like if it doesn't do you justice, it's not about me, it's not about do I think this is gonna do well for the Fire In The Booth brand. Like, anytime I have a conversation with an artist and they say to me, "Do you think it's good?" I can't sit there and lie to the artist's face and say, "Yes, it's okay." I'm gonna be like, "You could do better. If you wanna come back and go again, we can. If not, let's just park it off for now and come back to it at a later date." And there's been so many that have not gone out, but that's because I felt it's not a good reflection on them. Not on the brand, because no one's gonna, you know, attack the brand as much as they would the artist. There's... One of the biggest artists in the world right now, Stephen, one of the biggest, globally, right, who come in to do a Fire In The Booth. And I can't tell you how excited I was for this moment, even though it was a few years ago. They were still a big artist then, but they weren't as big as they are now. And they came in and done their Fire In The Booth, and, you know, we, everyone was excited and we just prepared for it. And they came in, and it was possibly one of the worst Fire In The Booths I've ever recorded. And I could see that the artist was quite excited by their performance, and, you know, they was like, "Oh, when, when, when we gonna release it?" And in my mind, I'm thinking, "Is this just me? Is it because I expected here, and they delivered here, that I'm judging this?" And, uh, they're talking to me, and their mouth's just moving, and I'm processing all this information in my head because I'm like, "I don't wanna lie to the artist. I don't wanna be disrespectful to the artist." All this information is swirling in my head, and I was like, "I'm gonna go back and listen to the Fire In The Booth. Uh, give me 10 minutes." So I went back into the studio, we played it. Oh, this is garbage. This is garbage. So I chatted to the producer at the time and I was like, "How, how's best to handle this situation? I don't wanna go out and say that this is not gonna go out, but at the same time, I wanna give them the opportunity to redo it-"
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- CSCharlie Sloth
"... while they're here, while they're in the country." And regretfully, I didn't do that. I didn't go out and give the artist the opportunity to do it again. I was like, "You know what? I'm just gonna say that it's not going out." And for me, that was a bad decision. I look back at it now and it was a bad decision. Um, but it just weren't good enough. It weren't good enough. And there's so many artists that have come through and not performed, but again, like I said, some that have called me a later day and said, "Do you know what? I appreciate you not putting that Fire In The Booth out. Let's go again."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why do you regret that decision?
- 49:56 – 56:34
Doubting myself
- SBSteven Bartlett
Adam where you say about the, that board meeting with, with the BBC at the start-
- CSCharlie Sloth
Oh, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... when you, you lay out to them that you, what you're going to do-
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... as a, as a DJ. Did anybody believe you? What did you say?
- CSCharlie Sloth
No, definitely not. They didn't beli- I think that I, I, I feel like I got laughed out the room at the time. So it was two, the two bosses at the time, and I'd gone in to do my paperwork and, you know, they was like, "So, you know, what are your aspirations? What are you trying to achieve here? Why are you at the BBC?" I said, "Well, within a month I'll create the biggest online freestyle platform that will do millions of views." Like, "Huh, great, yeah. It's not radio. That's not radio, Charles. I'm just letting you know, that's, that's not radio, that's YouTube." I'm like, "All right, mate." And then I said, "Secondly, I'll replace Westwood. I'll take all of Westwood's shows within five years." And one of the guys actually laughed in my face. I said, "Excuse me, why are you laughing?" He said, "Oh, do you know how many times I've heard that?" And I said, "Well, you've never heard it from me." And he's like, "Good luck, good luck with that, chap. Good luck." So I was like, "Okay." So it actually took me three years of being at the BBC to replace Westwood on all of his shows. So that was six radio shows a week. Um, and I said it would take me five. So I remember... And this is a great story. I actually saw the guy a few weeks back, and we, we laughed over it. You know, I, I, I got the call to say where there's going to be an anno going out today announcing all staff that you're replacing Westwood on all shows as of set date. Uh, it'll be going out at midday today. So I was like, "Perfect." So I left my house nice and early, went into, uh, the BBC building, and went around to this guy's desk. Uh, mm, it must have been 11:55. Sat on the edge of his desk and just waited for that inbox to light up with an all staff from the boss. 12 o'clock it drops in, he opens it, looks at me, says, "Fair play. You did it. Fair play. What can I say?" And I was like, "Thank you." I said, "I'd do it in five, I did it in three."
- SBSteven Bartlett
It reminds me of your, the conv- what your dad was saying to you when you were a kid as well.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah, for sure. And those things, you know, until, until you unwrap it and unravel it, you don't really understand what impact it's had on your life, I feel. Like, those small moments that drive you on and, and give you that fuel to keep pushing through, they're sat at the back of your mind. And then once you've achieved that goal or, you know, something's happened around that conversation when you can really dissect it and really get into the, the nitty-gritty of the words that were presented to you that have inspired and motivated you to become better, you're like, "Wow, okay." It's, it's bizarre. But yeah, it was a big moment for me, that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
The interpretation going on there is the key thing, right? 'Cause your dad's words, that guy's words, any words of self-doubt can be interpreted in many ways, depending on the mind that's interpreting them. So with your dad's comments, that could have made someone go, (clicks tongue) "Fuck, I'm not good enough. I'll just, I'll just go-"
- CSCharlie Sloth
"Yeah, I'm gonna crash and chill."
- SBSteven Bartlett
"... I'm gonna crash and chill." Whereas you, you almost interpret it as like... You still probably interpret it as like, "I'm not good enough, but I'm gonna prove to you that I am."
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And I think that's such an interesting thing, 'cause from this podcast I used to think people that were driven or successful were just the people that were, like, super motivated and whatever else. What I've come to learn the more episodes we've done is that nearly all of them start with this complex they're fighting against, which is, "You're not good enough."
- CSCharlie Sloth
Dude, you know what? For a long time I lived with that. And especially when I started stepping into board meetings and meeting corporate folk, I felt like I was dismissed because of how I spoke, how I dressed. But for me, I always thought, "You know what? You're no better than me because of your background or where you are in life. So why would you judge me for being who I am even though I, I've worked hard enough to sit at the same table as you?" And that would eat me up for a long time. And I'd never speak about it. It was, you know, it was, I, I guess a class complex, if anything. I f- I felt like a lot of people judge me, um, on the way I spoke and the way I dress without actually getting to know me or, or picking my brain. And I, to, to be totally honest, I, I think it wasn't until maybe five years ago where I got past that. Where I was like, "You know what? I deserve to be at this table, and you should be humbled and grateful that I'm sat at this table willing to give you some of the information that I have. Because if you had the information that I have-... I wouldn't be sat at this table. You wouldn't need me to be sat at this table, and you probably wouldn't want me to be sat at this table. And that's how I think. I think I understand the value that I bring to every situation that I'm in now, and that self-doubt has been totally removed. There's still self-doubt in my life, but in terms of who I am and what I bring to the table and what I'm capable of achieving, I feel like I'm in a very unique lane in life. There's not many people like me that understand culture and understand business in the same way I do.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's so funny because being Charlie Sloth, in more ways than one, not just the documentary you started, but throughout your career, and being y- your authentic self in, in situations where y- you might not have "fit" the status quo, is so clearly to me one of the key reasons why you're successful, like being yourself.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Whereas, so it's interesting to hear that someone who from the outside everyone would go, "Well, we... Charlie Sloth is Charlie Sloth because he's Charlie Sloth."
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Right? Would, would also go, no, I had those moments walking into rooms where I thought, "Fuck, I don't belong," or, "Are they judging me?" Or, you know...
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah, for sure. I f- I felt inferior. I felt like, should I really be at this table?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Should I be speaking different, dressing different? (laughs)
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah. And, and there was time, there was times in my life when I would go into a meeting and my phone voice would pop out.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- CSCharlie Sloth
And I'd leave the meeting-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(gasps) .
- CSCharlie Sloth
... and I'd be so mad at myself, and like, "What are you doing?"
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah.
- CSCharlie Sloth
"What are you doing? Why did you do that?" Because you felt like you had to speak a certain way around a certain type of person. No way. Like, and I feel like, yeah, I feel like a lot of people appreciate and respect me for being unapologetically
- 56:34 – 1:04:46
What make a great artist
- CSCharlie Sloth
me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You've had all these artists come on your, your, your platforms over the years, and with Fire in the Booth, you've really like without a shadow of a doubt, made people's careers. And I've always wondered, what is it that makes one of them actually go, go the full distance and become a star? 'Cause there's not many seats at that top table.
- CSCharlie Sloth
No, there's not.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Especially in the UK.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So from your perspective, which is a unique perspective, what is it that's separating them?
- CSCharlie Sloth
I think, I think it's a concoction of things. I think the first thing, of course, is always talent. You've got to have talent or some degree of talent, even though I'm a, I'm a strong believer in hard work always beats talent. But talent, especially within music, is always one of the key ingredients. Vision is the second thing. And I'd say the third thing is work ethic. How much you're willing to work, how hard you're willing to go. And then the fourth, and I think someone who encapsulates this is Stormzy, is personality, morals, and a sense of vulnerability, I think. I think when you look at all of the most successful artists, for me, they allow themself to become vulnerable. They allow themselves to be judged. They allow themselves to talk about things that a rapper wouldn't necessarily feel comfortable talking about. I feel like Stormzy, he's got the talent, he's got incredible talent, you know, in terms of vision and his work rate, unmatched. I, I remember doing sessions with Stormzy, (exhales) maybe eight, eight, nine years ago, recording sessions in the studio. And I called him and said, and this is before, like he was massive. I, I called him, I said, "Dude, I want to get you on a project that I'm working on. Can you come to the studio?" He's like, "What time do you need me there?" Um, I said, "If you can get there for 4:00 PM, it'd be amazing." Now, I didn't need him there till 6:00, but with me spending as much time as I have with rappers, I'd always say two hours earlier.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- CSCharlie Sloth
So, uh, it was five to four, he turned up. I'm like, "You're early." He's like, "Only five minutes." I'm like, in my head I'm like, "It's two hours and five minutes." But, so he comes in the studio, he's like, "What do you need me to do?" I was like, "Uh, do a verse on this song, do a verse on this song, do a chorus on this song." Normally an artist would be in there maybe four or five hours. He was in there for like 40 minutes. Done the two verses, done the hook, and was like, "Is there anything else you want me to do?" I'm like, "Whoa. Uh, no, man."
- SBSteven Bartlett
With that attitude?
- CSCharlie Sloth
With that attitude. And the minute he left that studio, I rang everyone and said, "This guy is a superstar. He is going to be a juggernaut." Because his mindset was just, he was so focused. He weren't in there t- gossiping, drinking, smoking. He was like, "I'm here to do a job. I'm going to do the job to the best of my ability, and then I'm gonna move on to do my next job." And to see that in such a young man, I was like, "Wow, this guy's gone." And I remember after that there was a few moments that happened, and he was just (exhales) outta here. I just knew it. There's a few artists like that that have been on the show or that I've met personally, and I've said straight away, even to labels' friends within the labels, I'm like, "If you want to place a bet, that's the guy to place a bet on." You can just feel it. Like, it's like you, you've either got it or you haven't. Some of the things that h- these artists have that make them superstars are unteachable.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And they're hard to see.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah, very.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Because no one would have said that about... Well, from m- my external perspective, when I think about why Stormzy made it, I'm thinking, oh, he did that thing in the park with the freestyle, and then he-
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... you know, he worked with you, and then I think... And he's a great rapper.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But even then, there's a reason why he became a great rapper, and it's his dedication.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Dedication. So focused. No, no distractions.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Wretch was the same.
- CSCharlie Sloth
W- Wretch, he's w- And you know what? Like, when you look at these artists, they're the most incredible human beings.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Set aside everything else.They're the most incredible human beings. Giggs, you know, one of the biggest rappers in this country, one of the most incredible human beings that I know. And, you know, if you're looking at it from an inter- entertainment perspective, you're like, "These guys are gangsters."
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- CSCharlie Sloth
And they're not. You know, they're human beings. And, you know, their personality, their morals, their integrity is a big part of why they've been so successful, because everybody wants to work with them. Everybody likes them. Nobody ever wants to say no, because they're such good people. And that's a, that's a... uh, for me, a huge st- uh, Stormzy is super talented, incredible artist, but a huge part of people wanting to do stuff with him is because he's such a great person.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But you represent all of those things that you've just described, the hard work, the vision, the vulnerability, the openness. Even the body language point you said.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Like, I could turn off the volume on a Fire in the Booth and just watch you.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Oh, yeah. I get carried away.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Yeah.
- 1:04:46 – 1:13:35
Joining Apple Music
- SBSteven Bartlett
At some point, you get a call from Apple.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yep.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Tell me, tell me about that.
- CSCharlie Sloth
I mean, Apple, for me, you know, it was a massive moment in my life and my career. So, prior to me leaving the BBC, I had had offers for a few years before. People were just trying to start conversation about what it would look like with me leaving the BBC. And, you know, I've got so many great memories and made so many great friends at the BBC, and it was such a huge part of my career and my growth as Charlie Sloth and, of course, the Fire in the Booth brand. But, I'd got to the point in the building where I'd achieved every single last thing that I'd set out to achieve. And every time I'd achieve a goal in there, I'd set myself a new target. But I'd run out of targets, in terms of where I could go and what more I could do. And, you know, at this time, I was doing an average of 200 DJ shows a year. Um, I was doing five radio shows a week. I felt a little bit trapped. And, for me, what I quickly identified as my next mission was, I felt, not as easy to achieve while being fixed at the BBC. So, I was like, "All right, what's next?" You know? And, you know, o- o- of course, I took into consideration at the time how people were consuming content, the age group of the listeners that were listening to radio, um, the ty- the demographic of people that was listening to radio. I felt like it had changed, and the way we consume content had changed forever. And I felt like listening to radio was no longer an appointment. I used to wait every night to listen to Zane Lowe.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- CSCharlie Sloth
I used to wait every weekend to listen to Westwood. It was an appointment. I wouldn't miss it. I felt like those days had moved on, and people were listening at their leisure, you know. There was no fixed time for you to have to listen. You should listen back anytime you want on the iPlayer.So for me, I'd reached this point in my life where I was a bit like, "What's next?" I'd always knew what was next. I'd always find something that was next throughout my journey at the BBC. I'd say, "All right, I've achieved this. This is next. Let's work towards that." Um, I couldn't find one. I really couldn't find one, and this was just after the Drake Fire in the Booth because that was something that I was... worked towards for years, and I'd finally achieved it, and I'm kinda like, "What's next, man?" And I couldn't find something that was next. I'd never wanna do Breakfast. It's not really for me. Um, I couldn't see anywhere else that I fitted within the schedule, so, so I thought, "You know what? Let me call Zane Lowe," 'cause he's the first person from the broadcast world, traditional broadcast world, that's made that jump, and he's done an incredible job of doing so. So I've called him, and I've, like, run through my thoughts with him and how I'm feeling and doubts that I'd had, and he was like, "Dude, like, I'd love you to be over here. I'd love it. Um, if you've got any doubts or any concerns, go and speak to Oliver. Like, Oliver's the big boss at Apple Music." He's like, "Just have a sit-down with Oliver. I know you. I know what you stand for, I know what you believe in. Just spend an hour talking to him." So I was like, "Okay." He's like, "I'll set the meeting up," and so he set the meeting up with Oliver. I sat down with Oliver. He's like, "You know, okay, so what are you trying to achieve?" I said, "I wanna be part of the story for the first British rap artist to become a global brand," so in the same way, you know, Drake did for Canada, which people 20 years ago would've laughed at you for, would've laughed at you. The biggest rapper in the world is Canadian? (laughs) No way. And I feel like that's how people have thought about a British rapper becoming a global brand, and for me, being a part of that story, um, helping that British artist to whatever capacity that I could by having a platform and a network that would enable me to do that was so important, just to be a part of the story. Um, he was like, "Whatever you need, I can help you." You know, he spoke about his passion and his belief and what motivated him and inspired him and, like, we had a very similar outlook. And for me, I was like, "You just get it." Like, I left that room, and I was like, "I know Apple is where I wanna be." I don't care who's offering what. There was, there was better offers on the table. I'm like, "No, he's the guy. Like, I will follow this guy on his journey and make his journey a part of mine and vice versa. I know that he gets this, he understands what's happening in the world of content, and I'm willing to jump on this train." And that was it. And then from there, you know, we've achieved some incredible things, I feel. I feel like that we've, we've been doing things that nobody's ever done. Fire in the Booth being, uh, an asset that lives on a DSP, on Apple Music, that people can stream. The, the, the legals that we had to get around to create this template of how that looks, now everyone's trying to do it. Everyone's trying to do it, and everyone's trying to work out exactly how we got around all of the hurdles that we had to get over.
- SBSteven Bartlett
A lot of people will ask, because it seems quite amazing that you managed to take Fire in the Booth from the BBC-
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... to Apple. You'd think that that, that'd be, like, their intellectual property or something.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah, so I owned Fire in the Booth before I even went into the BBC, and luckily for me, because the BBC didn't have the same faith in the brand as I did, they didn't invest any money into the brand whatsoever, which would've made things a little bit more messy, I feel like, on my exit, if they had invested into the brand.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You're right, though. If they hadn't put money into it, then it becomes, uh, well, in a l- you know-
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... in legal-
- CSCharlie Sloth
It would've, it would've become a, a lot messier, but-
- SBSteven Bartlett
There wasn't a contract, but it was just you... They hadn't invested, so you could...
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah, so basically, there was no side deal-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay.
- CSCharlie Sloth
... per se for Fire in the Booth. It was something that I just did within the show.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay.
- CSCharlie Sloth
They didn't pay me extra for Fire in the Booth. They didn't provide me any stuff.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You own the, the copyrights?
- CSCharlie Sloth
I did.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, okay.
- CSCharlie Sloth
So I've, I've always been up on stuff like that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay, good.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Before I went in there-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- CSCharlie Sloth
... I owned the full copyright.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's important.
- CSCharlie Sloth
And then all the trademarks, and so I was like, I was up on it, and there was nothing they could do. Uh, so when I did decide to leave, it was like, "Cheers, thanks." I mean, I know that probably burnt them.
- 1:13:35 – 1:26:22
Au vodka & the strategy to make it succesful
- SBSteven Bartlett
On the point of ownership, there's a bottle sat behind me on the shelf, I'm gonna go grab it. (drinking) I mean, first of all you, you've engraved this with the diary of a CEO, so it's-
- CSCharlie Sloth
Of course, just for you.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... it's never getting opened, so thank you so much.
- CSCharlie Sloth
I'm hoping I can get, I'll get one of those diaries-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yes. (laughs) Yeah.
- CSCharlie Sloth
... as kind of a trade-off.
- SBSteven Bartlett
One of these ones here, we have one here. A lot of people, you know, that get involved in the music industry don't end up starting companies like this, especially companies that are truly, legitimately successful.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What is the story of AU Vodka? And why did you start this business? And also, let's start this by just giving me an idea of how successful this has been so far.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Wow. So, we, last year we outsold Grey Goose, twice over.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You're joking?
- CSCharlie Sloth
No. We outsold Grey Goose in the UK twice over, three times as many bottles as Ciroc. Um, we're on schedule to turn over, uh, £80 million this year.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Jesus Christ.
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, you know, we're, we're the top-selling premium vodka in the UK, and we've recently started to really focus on export. We sold out in the States. We just launched in the States last week, um, we decided to go state-by-state. We sold out in two days-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Jesus.
- CSCharlie Sloth
... in the States, sold a significant amount of bottles in the States. Um, so yeah, I mean, the story with AU Vodka, interesting story actually. So, um, I'd just come off the back of having this massive vape business that I set up years ago. Vapes. So, I remember being in a club and, um, everyone was smoking vapes and I was like, "What is everyone smoking?" Long story short, invested in a company, made a significant amount of money selling these vapes, sold the business. Very quick, very quick transaction. And I was like, "Right, what's next?" So, I was like, "No one's got their own vodka business" and I'm looking at Ciroc, I'm looking what Diddy's doing over there, I'm like, these guys are so ahead of the game, the Americans, in terms of branding, in terms of creating businesses, in the culture and lifestyle-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Culture.
- CSCharlie Sloth
... and understanding how to navigate that brand and target a certain demographic. The hard-to-reach demographic. The, the demographic that marketeers all over the world spend significance amounts of money trying to penetrate every year. I have access to that market and I understand how to position things in the marketplace. So, I was, "I need to find a vodka." So, I ended up spending, I spent, uh, I, I spent way over £100,000 developing this brand and I just weren't happy with it. I was like, "The bottle's not right, the name's not right, the liquor's okay." I was like, "It's not right." So, um, I was like, "All right, cool, I'll kind of put that on the, on the back burner for, f- for a couple of months. I need to focus on some other stuff." Two days after me having that thought, I put that on the back burner, I get a DM on Instagram and it's from AU Vodka. And, you know, they're a few months old, just n- not really found their foot. They're like, "Charlie, can we send you some bottles of AU Vodka?" And I never respond to messages like that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- CSCharlie Sloth
I just don't, I'm not, I'm not in it for... I don't want gifting. I'm not into that stuff. So, I was looking at the, at the page. I was like, "Let me just check these guys' page out." Vodka, I've been trying to do my own thing. I go on the page and I see the bottle. I'm like, "Whoa. These guys have hit the nail on the head." So, I DM back, I was like, "Hey, you guys got a number?" Um, they was like, "Yeah, cool, send me a number over." I called them, I was like, "Hey, what's up, man? Bottle was incredible." I was like, "What's the story?" And they start speaking to me, "Oh, you know, two friends from Swansea who've just kind of set it up, it's pretty new." I was like, "Do you guys need investment?" And they was like, "Nah, we don't." And I'm like, "You don't need any money?"
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- CSCharlie Sloth
And they was like, "Nah, we're good." So, I was like, "All right, cool." I was like, "Well, if that changes, this is my number, I'm more than open to a conversation. I'd love to take you guys for dinner." So, they're like, "All right, cool. Thanks, Charlie. Yeah. Hopefully we'll speak again soon." So, two weeks later, I'm at the BBC, I get a call, "Oh, we've just finished a meeting in town, would you be up for grabbing a coffee?" So, I was like, "Of course." So, I meet the two lads, uh, Charlie and Jackson, we go for a coffee, um, at Nero's Coffee, just under the BBC, and of course, because I'd been working on this project of my own in the background, I've already got my five-year plan. I've got it written out step-by-step to a T. So, I sit with these guys and I'm like, "What's the story?" So, they start talking to me and telling me about their backgrounds and how they got into it and why they got into it and, um, I was like, "Look. I've got a five-year plan that I know we will destroy with this product. We'll make this the biggest thing since sliced bread." And I feel like they believed in me in the same way I believed in them. Now, when I invested into the business, of course, the product was incredible and I believed that we could do so much with this product, especially within the urban community, um, which I feel is the community that drives pretty much everything in terms of lifestyle these days. And when you understand that, I feel like it gives you a, a different view on why things work and why things don't.Um, so spending time with them, getting to know them, I was like, "These guys are so hungry and so switched on. I would be honored to be their partner." So we done a deal. We had the five-year plan. You know, the plan was very simple yet very well thought out. Like, step by step, we went through that plan, and we achieved every single last thing that was on the plan. Now, when we set out on this journey, we had all agreed that within five years, we'd sell the business for £100 million. And we're like, "Great be a business," you know. Three years in, four years in, we're like, "Sell it for 100 million?" Like, "What?" You know, like, our- our vision changed somewhat, um, and the success that we achieved from this plan that we put in place, we all believed together that we would achieve this, and all of us brought something different to the table.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How much do you think this is valued at now, this company?
- CSCharlie Sloth
Um, I think by the end of this year, realistically, um, if we was doing a 10 times multiply, you'd be looking at 800, 800 million. I think with some of the activations that we have going on at the moment, I'd like to think by this time next year, we'll be a unicorn.
- SBSteven Bartlett
For anyone that doesn't know what a unicorn is. (laughs)
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah, a- a- a business that's valued over a billion. Um, and I feel like we're on... We're on- we're on- we're on the right track to achieve that by this time next year.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Everyone listening to, you know, this- this idea of a plan-
- CSCharlie Sloth
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... is gonna say, "Charlie, listen, I wanna- I wanna pop off too. I wanna build a business." What's the, what are some of the key things that I need to know about that particular plan? When you look back in hindsight and go, "That's why this worked out."
- CSCharlie Sloth
I thi- I think, like, for me, the most important thing for selling anything is understanding your audience.
Episode duration: 1:42:07
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