Skip to content
The Diary of a CEOThe Diary of a CEO

Chris Kamara: The Untold Heartbreaking Story Of A Football Legend!

Chris Kamara is a former professional footballer and pundit who lit up our screens as part of Sky Sports punditry team for 25 years before he left Sky this year. Topics: 0:00 Intro 01:42 Early years 21:02 Racism 28:52 Your conditions 45:58 I feel like a fraud 51:55 Your next chapter 52:40 Your best advice 57:30 What was it that set you apart from the rest? 59:14 Your wife Ann 01:04:50 How are you feeling about your condition? 01:08:17 The last guest question Chris: Twitter - https://bit.ly/3eGUuT3 Instagram - https://bit.ly/3xiaTUl Listen on: Apple podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-diary-of-a-ceo-by-steven-bartlett/id1291423644 Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/7iQXmUT7XGuZSzAMjoNWlX Follow: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/steven/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/SteveBartlettSC Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-bartlett-56986834/ Sponsors: Craftd - https://g2ul0.app.link/gZ8in6Dsvsb Huel - https://g2ul0.app.link/wjmvak5nAsb

Chris KamaraguestSteven Bartletthost
Sep 12, 20221h 12mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 1:42

    Intro

    1. CK

      Every day I wake up, the first thing I think, "Am I gonna be able to talk today?" There's been a red card, but for who, Chris Kamara? I don't know, Geoff Hazlett. One of Britain's best-loved football pundits- (buzzer) It's been a cracker, Geoff. You beauty! (laughs) Unbelievable, Geoff. What a cracking game! As a young Black kid, thinking that one day I'll play for Middlesbrough and for Leeds, ambition and dream achieved.

    2. SB

      The story of your mother I found really difficult to read.

    3. CK

      It was difficult in those days. Men, uh, were physical towards women. I made the mistake of telling my dad on his deathbed that it was wrong. I should've kept it to myself, hmm.

    4. SB

      Why?

    5. CK

      (sighs)

    6. SB

      For someone that has never experienced apraxia, what does it feel like for you in your head?

    7. CK

      I feel a fraud now in terms of broadcasting.

    8. SB

      You feel a fraud?

    9. CK

      Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. I was gonna quit everything.

    10. SB

      Without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. Chris,

  2. 1:42 – 21:02

    Early years

    1. SB

      what do I need to know about your earliest years to understand the man that you are today?

    2. CK

      (smacks lips) Ooh. (sighs) I don't know really. Um, my childhood is slightly clouded, um, so I wouldn't change anything, 'cause you can't change the course of history, but life was difficult growing up, very difficult. Um, so, yeah, uh, I d- I wouldn't change anything, to be honest, yeah.

    3. SB

      When you say clouded...

    4. CK

      Well, good days, bad days. We had, uh, terrible racism at the time, uh, when I was growing up. I was born in '57, so in the '60s it wasn't good. We were the only Black family on our estate, so anything happened and the police would come knocking on our door, take our dad away and he'd have to get cleared and come home and it, the whole process would start again. "It's that Black family there who are causing all the problems." And occasionally, uh, not all the time, my dad w- liked to bet, so he would, on a Thursday, he, when he got paid, they got paid in cash then, brown envelopes, uh, would occasionally go to the bookies, and so we'd end up, you know, struggling for food. So, it's clouded in those ways. Um, I'm looking through those clouds now, but, you know, uh, thinking it didn't do me any harm. But it happened, you know?

    5. SB

      Your, your mother and your father's relationship?

    6. CK

      Uh, Mum was the most loyal wife you could ever have. Absolutely. Even if her and Dad had arguments or fights or whatever, she would vehemently stick up for him, you know, when anybody called him, you know, the N-word was vibrant back in those days, and, you know... I hear these stories now that it's impossible to understand, uh, racism if you're not Black. It's not true. It's totally not true. My mum got called a N-lover, uh, throughout, you know, the '60s, when I was aware of it, uh, and she came through it, so she knew exactly what racism was about. Hmm.

    7. SB

      Your father was from Sierra Leone?

    8. CK

      Yeah.

    9. SB

      And your mother was from...

    10. CK

      Middlesbrough.

    11. SB

      Middlesbrough?

    12. CK

      Yeah.

    13. SB

      People don't always think about that. They don't think about how the... In, in that context, 'cause my mother's from Nigeria and my dad's from Coventry.

    14. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    15. SB

      So I'm, I've, you know... And what my dad went through as well, because his wife was Black, um, is often not t- spoken about, but often-

    16. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    17. SB

      ... the, the partner carries the weight and the, the, um, the insults all the same.

    18. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    19. SB

      I, I was reading through your story about how your mother would also, on Thursdays, she would walk up to 10 miles-

    20. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    21. SB

      ... to go and get your dad's pay packet-

    22. CK

      Yeah. It's-

    23. SB

      ... through fear that he might spend it.

    24. CK

      Yeah, she had to, and so it became a ritual in the end. She would do it all the time. In the end, when we were older, as kids, she didn't have to carry us to the, uh, workplace, which was (laughs) 10 miles away, uh, round journey, and, uh, so she, they ended up, she would walk to meet Dad and they would go off into town together, you know, and that became the norm, mm-hmm.

    25. SB

      Did your dad ever show the...... impact or the consequences of the way he was being treated like an outsider in a country where he- people were telling him he didn't belong.

    26. CK

      Uh, to us as kids.

    27. SB

      Did you ever see the impact of him emotionally? Did it manifest itself in drinking or was there ever a sign that it was impacting him?

    28. CK

      Uh, he told us often enough. He'd been involved in s- fights, uh, back then, fistfights, you know. That was the norm, you know. He had to stand up and be counted. But he was always the one arrested in those fighting situation. Um, but he, he had this thing and he drove it into me and my brother, "Don't ever react." You know? "I might be reacting but whatever you do, don't react." You know? "Take it on the chin, uh, and ride through it. Uh, you'll get through it that way. It's been harder for me and I'm doing this for you, so, you know, you'll benefit."

    29. SB

      And m- money, uh, you know, the other thing that I read that w- I found, I found really difficult to read was the story of your, your mother when y- your dad's gambling problems were very difficult. Your mother would... And you didn't have money. Your mother would go round to other houses in the street and knock on the doors and ask for bread or anything-

    30. CK

      Yeah.

  3. 21:02 – 28:52

    Racism

    1. SB

      And then it happens, your, your career at Portsmouth.

    2. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    3. SB

      Lot of people don't, um, lot of people will never appreciate, especially in this, the modern era, even me, even me as a, as a guy that has a, a Bla- Black mother and a white father, the, what racism was like back in the '50s and '60s, you know?

    4. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    5. SB

      The first time I experienced racism was maybe 1998? No, it would've been later. It would've been about 2000, roughly, about when I was-

    6. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    7. SB

      ... maybe eight or nine or 10?

    8. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    9. SB

      But when I was reading through what you experienced at that, in that time-

    10. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    11. SB

      ... almost constantly-

    12. CK

      Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

    13. SB

      ... I just, it, it's, it makes, it almost makes my experience feel like it was nothing.

    14. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    15. SB

      And I mean that, like-

    16. CK

      Yeah.

    17. SB

      ... I remember, like, once or twice or three times-

    18. CK

      Yeah.

    19. SB

      ... you know, over the course of my whole childhood, people being overtly racist.

    20. CK

      Yeah.

    21. SB

      But when was the first time someone was racist to you?

    22. CK

      Uh... (sighs)

    23. SB

      Your first memory?

    24. CK

      I know exactly when it all scattered. I'll never forget it. (sniffs) I was eight years old, once again, and that was the time where I could light the fire and go to the shops to get cigarettes. So you went with a note for the shopkeeper. So it was, uh, 10 Woodbines for my mum and 20 Capstan full strength for my dad. So I went to the shop, uh, gave the note to the shopkeeper, uh, and he's getting in, this woman (hands clap) uh, came in the shop. Anyway, she asked for a pint of milk, a loaf of bread, I'm not sure of those details, and, uh, he said, "I, um, I'm serving this young man here." She said, "His lot should go back to where they came from." And I thought, "I live five doors away from you," you know? Uh, "I'm not, you know, from somewhere else." And he said, "No, look." He stood his ground, the shopkeeper, and served me, and I went out with, uh, a ringing in our ears, you know, "Them Blacks and so-and-sos shouldn't be here," mm-hmm.

    25. SB

      It says it all that you can remember that day with such detail.

    26. CK

      Mm-hmm. (smacks lips) I can, yeah.

    27. SB

      Hmm. I, I... That's something I don't think people realize, is the first time someone called me a, the N-word at school, I remember everything about that day.

    28. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    29. SB

      I can't remember many other days, but for some reason, that was a, it's a very traumatic experience, and the first sort of signs that you're different-

    30. CK

      Yeah.

  4. 28:52 – 45:58

    Your conditions

    1. CK

      it now makes me more emotional, mm-hmm.

    2. SB

      When did you discover the underactive thyroid?

    3. CK

      Uh, well, it's funny, you know, it's really funny, um, it's... I did, going through lockdown initially, the first lockdown in March, uh, when the weather was great and everyone, you know, quite... You know, I think they were gutted about the lockdown, but the fact you were at home and the sun was shining, things were slightly different. I did loads and loads of shows from home, you know, Celeb Juice and Stesh Pack Lunch, ITV Lorraine and stuff like that, Sky Sports, from the, you know, uh, barn at home, you know. So that was fine. So, uh, all of a sudden, I began to not feel well, um, too well, but I always shrugged it off. I'd take, you know, tablets and be fine the next day and all that sort of stuff. But it wasn't going away, and uh, I thought, "What's going on?" But I ignored it, ignored it, which is the worst thing you can possibly do. So I would get away with it at home by-... hardly not being the person I was. You know, I'm not talking as much. When I'm broadcasting for Sky, I'm trying to keep minimalistic because some of the words are coming out slurred and stuff like that. So, uh, eventually, um, I've got to go and see someone because I literally went a whole year, if not 20 months, before I actually got diagnosed with underactive thyroid. So it was all my prayers answered at once. Uh, you know, uh, "You've got an underactive thyroid. Take levothyroxine. And once you find your level of levothyroxine, you'll be fine." Great. Doctor's, "Great. Uh, sort it out." So eventually, you take 25 grams or whatever it is of levothyroxine. Uh, eventually when you find your level, you're fine. So I get to 175 and my thyroid is stabilized, but my voice condition is still exactly the same, so what's going on? So my doctor then says, "Go for a brain scan." So I go for a MRI scan. Anyway, I go and see a brain specialist. He looks at the X-rays, the MRI scan. "Fine, not a problem. Nothing wrong with your brain. It's gotta be something else that's going on." So, uh, uh, go back to my GP and tell him what's going on. He's got the report from the brain scan. So he says... He, he won't give up, my GP. He says, "It's not obviously your, uh, thyroid. There's something else going on. Would you go and see this Dr. Lily in Leeds? He's a specialist." So I go and see Dr. Lily in Leeds. Uh, and before, uh, I've only said hello to him. Uh, and before I can even chat to him, he says, "You've got apraxia of speech." "Right. How do you know?" "I can tell straight away. The difficulty between the brain and your mouth being able to speak, you know, it was probably slower than it is now, uh, at that time." So he said, "Look, you know, I want you to go and have a DAT scan, which is... which rules out Parkinson's or stroke and all that sort of stuff." I did. Uh, went back to see him with the result... for the results, I should say. And he went, uh, "The good news is, uh, you haven't got Parkinson's or anything like that. The bad news is, you know, we can't find anything else wrong with you. So, you know, the apraxia, you know, will probably get worse." And, uh, and, you know, uh, that went on for quite a while. Uh, I went to see a therapist and he kept saying to me, "Look, you need to tell people. You know, you can't continue on TV and people are saying, 'Is he drunk?' and 'What's the matter with him? Has he had a stroke?' You need to come out and say something." I said, "I can't. I can't. I'd rather quit than actually say something." Uh, anyway, eventually I, uh, spoke to my mate Ben Shepherd. Uh, told him what was going on. So he said, "Look, come on, uh, GMB, uh, we'll chat about it and let the world know, uh, what's going on."

    4. SB

      How were, how were things for your family during this period?

    5. CK

      Um, my boys had been saying to my wife, "There's something wrong with Dad," uh, for a while. And she sort of, like, would broach it with me but I'd be quite snappy and, you know, which I'm not anyway. You know, and saying, "No, I'm fine. I'm fine. Don't worry about it. I'm fine." And I kept thinking, like I said, once I got the thyroid problem, the levothyroxine will take it away. Uh, and then, um, it's still wi- with me and, uh... Yeah. It's harder for people close to you, I think. You know, because my two boys saying, "Are you okay, Dad?" "Oh yeah, I'm fine. I've just had a bad day, you know. Don't worry, I'll be fine." Uh, but they know, you know. You can't pull the wool over their eyes for too long.

    6. SB

      For someone that has never experienced what it's like to have apraxia-

    7. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    8. SB

      ... what does it feel like for you in your head?

    9. CK

      Uh, it feels like someone is taking over my voice box. So the voice that used to come out would come out at 300 mile an hour, you know. You've seen me on the-... results and, uh, Soccer Saturday, you know, motor mouth, talking, uh, not even waiting for a breath, just keep going and going. Now, when I hear myself or see myself on TV, it's someone else. It's strange. It's really strange. Some days, you know, the message from the brain to the mouth is really slow, yeah? Makes it difficult or some days the words come out different that what you're trying to say. And th- that's even weirder. Uh, and so that's been hard to accept, and still hard to accept, I have to say. You know, uh, I was gonna quit everything, you know, literally every single bit of TV at the end of last season. Leave Sky, uh, quit BBC, quit ITV, quit Channel 4 and 5, and all those companies. Uh, BBC... I think it was the right time to leave Sky. Uh, I'd had a great innings. But BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 said, "No, no. You're coming. It doesn't matter." You know, I said, "Well, it's the quality of the program." "No, it doesn't matter. You- you're fine. We want you to do this." And would you believe I'm now doubly busy than what I was before?

    10. SB

      That, that period of, um, uncertainty. You get the diagnosis, the specialist says to you, "It's only gonna get worse."

    11. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    12. SB

      Your career is, at that point, in speaking.

    13. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    14. SB

      It's in presenting, broadcasting.

    15. CK

      Yeah.

    16. SB

      What- what did, what was that period of uncertainty like on your mental health?

    17. CK

      Um, it was a, an acceptance really, 'cause what I said to my wife is, "If I wasn't a broadcaster, it wouldn't matter, would it?" And so she said, "Yeah." You know? So I said, you know, "Now's the time, but a great time." Spoke to my agent, Simon Dent, said, "Look, I'm getting out of all this." And he said, "Yeah, you can. Yeah, don't worry. I'll leave it up to you." And, uh, yeah, I thought, "That's it. Quit. I've done my time." And I'd like to thank all the people that have been persistent and said, "Look, a 25% Cammy is, you know, still better than some people." You know?

    18. SB

      And Sky saw you on that show forever-

    19. CK

      Yeah.

    20. SB

      ... um, presenting and bringing, you know, insights and wisdom and laughs and, um, all of that to the show. I also watched the tribute, um, that Jeff, Jeff did f- when you left.

    21. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    22. SB

      What was that like, having to, to speak to, to Jeff and, and the rest of the lads-

    23. CK

      Yeah.

    24. SB

      ... and tell them that you were departing and for the reason?

    25. CK

      Um, well, Jeff's a really close pal, and he knew there'd been something going on for a while. And he kept saying to me, "Are you all right?" And I said, "Yeah, I'm fine, Jeff. Don't worry, I'm fine." H- he said, "Well, you know, yeah, what's going on?" So I said, "Oh, I just had a couple of bad days and stuff, but I'll be fine on Saturday." Then he'd send me a text saying, "You're not fine again?" "No," I said, "I'll be all right next week or whatever." But, yeah, you can't pull the wool over people's eyes who know you real well. And, uh, he was great, you know? The tribute that Sky gave me, which, like I said, was the right time to leave there. Uh, I cried when he cried on the show. Mm-hmm.

    26. SB

      I've never seen him cry before.

    27. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    28. SB

      It was a really, um-

    29. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    30. SB

      ... beautiful, powerful moment. Um, since then, you've, uh, y- in your own words, you've really thrown the kitchen sink, I think is the quote-

  5. 45:58 – 51:55

    I feel like a fraud

    1. CK

    2. SB

      How, how is life for you now? You've been through a v- a journey-

    3. CK

      Yeah.

    4. SB

      ... you know?

    5. CK

      Strange.

    6. SB

      Where are you in, in that journey now?

    7. CK

      Strange, uh, strange in terms of, (sniffs) I feel a fraud now in terms of broadcasting. I don't bring to the table what I used to, uh, so that's hard. Uh, my life away from the screen couldn't be any better, you know, grandkids, you know, family, uh, it's, uh, you know, it's perfect. Unique. Yeah.

    8. SB

      You feel a fraud?

    9. CK

      Yeah. Mm-hmm.

    10. SB

      Because you, because you...

    11. CK

      I feel like I'm doing these programs and, and they're not getting the best of me, but they're tolerating me, you know? Mm-hmm. That's how it feels. Mm-hmm.

    12. SB

      I mean, who am I to say, but, um, you know, I, I think what y- what they told you about, y- as you said, 25% of you is better than pretty much everyone else.

    13. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    14. SB

      You know, I've, you, you've brought so much joy to my life growing up, made me love the game more, made me understand the game more. You've made it hilarious. I mean, you know that. You're, you're loved more than anyone I've ever seen on the screen. So- and you've earned that. That's a skill. It's something I couldn't do.

    15. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    16. SB

      I wouldn't know how to do a, a sliver of what you do. So I don't think that, um... I suspect that fear is, is not as logical as you think it is-

    17. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    18. SB

      ... that you're a fraud. I mean that as well, like, I could never do what you do. I couldn't do a- of 10% of what you do.

    19. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    20. SB

      So, um, you know...

    21. CK

      (smacks lips) It's like anything else, you take it for granted, your old self. You do things, you know. Uh, that tribute that Sky gave me, that's reserved for someone who passes away, isn't it, you know? So I've had the tribute while I'm still alive, uh, that people don't get when they go. Uh, you always look back and think, you read the obituaries and the comments and think, "Why didn't people say that?" You know. So I think maybe I should have bowed out then, you know, and taken the accolades and said, "Thank you." (sniffs) You know. Am I tarnishing what I've got, what I had?

    22. SB

      Mm-hmm.But I, but I think, um, my rebuttal to that, if I may, is that you're, you're serving the world in a very important way now still. Even by having this conversation and being vulnerable and open, you are serving hundreds of thousands of people, thousands and thousands of people, in a complete and entirely different way, that are suffering-

    23. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    24. SB

      ... with, with various conditions, whether it's, you know, as you've said, post-stroke victims, or whether it's apraxia or other things, and they're struggling with the same self-doubt. It's funny, like, our missions just change over our lives, right? Like, so your first missions was in football, and then you became a manager, then you did broadcasting, and now this chapter of your life is just a different chapter.

    25. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    26. SB

      You're still, you know, a wondrous broadcaster-

    27. CK

      Yeah.

    28. SB

      ... but you're serving people in a completely other way, probab- maybe arguably even in a more important way.

    29. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    30. SB

      See what I mean?

  6. 51:55 – 52:40

    Your next chapter

    1. SB

      well made. This next, uh, this next chapter-

    2. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    3. SB

      ... what, what, what do you want it to be full of?

    4. CK

      My life has changed, uh, in terms of grandkids. You know, material things don't matter anymore. Um, uh, the love you have for, you know, your kids' kids, uh, is something else. So, you know, I'm one of those now. Even though I'm still working, my main priority is spending time with them.

    5. SB

      What advice would you give me?

  7. 52:40 – 57:30

    Your best advice

    1. SB

      You know, I just turned 30-

    2. CK

      Yeah.

    3. SB

      ... last week. What advice-

    4. CK

      I-

    5. SB

      ... would you give me?

    6. CK

      I say it to everyone, work hard and you'll succeed. Don't ever turn down work, don't ever say on a job, "Oh, this is hard, I don't like it anymore, I can't do this." Do it, do it, and do it to the best of your ability, and see where it takes you, you know? TV is one of those jobs, I think, where if you work hard enough, you'll succeed. In football that's not the case, you know? I've grown up in football, and you... Sometimes a lucky break is better than working hard, even. You've still got to work hard, but you need breaks. And of course you need breaks in TV, but if you work hard, I think you get them. I started off at Sky, and so, uh, people say, "How did you get into Sky in 1998?" Well, initially, uh, I was a pundit for 'em. Um, I was lucky, fortunate. The first broadcast of the, uh, Football League was Sunderland versus Sheffield United at Sheffield, and they rang me. I was manager of the month with Bradford, yeah, uh, August. We won four games and drew one. And they called me and said, "Would you come and be the pundit?" So I said, "Yeah, Sheffield down the road from me." And they said, "No, you've got to come into Sky, uh, in West London." So I came all the way down. Marcus Buckland, the presenter, it was his first day, and it was a double-header, six hours of TV.... obviously ads in between and all that sort of stuff, halftime, uh, and that. And Gerry Francis was doing the second game. So that's where fate took a hand. Uh, I did the first game, Sunderland won at Sheffield, and Gerry Francis got stuck on the M4. So I did the doubleheader.

    7. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    8. CK

      So from doing six hours of TV, I became the go-to guy then for Sky. "So a live game, are you a- available?" Like, "Yeah, I'll come down and do it." And I did that. And then when I got the sack from Bradford, they asked would I like a contract? And I said, "No, but I'd like to keep my face in the shop window." So I did one broadcast and then Stoke came along, uh, and I got that job. (smacks lips) And then, uh, that job turned sour pretty quickly after three months. And, uh, then I just fell straight into Sky, their broadcasting. And, uh, so eventually, um, the 1999, um, the producer of Soccer Saturday said, "Would you like to come and join the team?" Uh, so I said, "Yeah." So he went, "Would you like to do some features for us?" So I would actually go and train with teams, Premier League teams. You know, can you cannot imagine in a million years that they let you in and train with the players these days. But I did that back in the day, 1999. So I'd go and train, joining the training with them, interview the managers and the players, shoot the... And then I went and edited those pieces-

    9. SB

      Hm.

    10. CK

      ... because I didn't want someone saying, "Oh yeah, it's fine." But, you know, the hard work is done by the editor. So I would-

    11. SB

      Hm.

    12. CK

      ... sit myself in a studio, uh, uh, and sometimes it took six, seven hours for a four-minute piece to edit it down. But I thought, "Right, I don't want anyone saying it's

    13. SB

      (laughs)

    14. CK

      ... thereby for all hard work." Uh, and if you do that and people see that, uh, uh, it'll help, not in all cases, but in most cases.

  8. 57:30 – 59:14

    What was it that set you apart from the rest?

    1. CK

    2. SB

      That was the very start of what would go on to be a legendary career in the media. Um...

    3. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    4. SB

      I, when you look, so you've given me one reason there as to why you're successful, which is just the hard work and saying yes.

    5. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    6. SB

      But the media business is also, it's much more complex than that, in the sense that hard work, as you say, it's like a, you definitely need to do it. But what was it about you, do you think, that set you apart as a, as a, in the media industry, as a broadcaster?

    7. CK

      I don't know that. I'm still baffled by that. I went to Ian Condren's, uh, 40th anniversary with his wife. He was, Ian was the producer of Soccer Saturday who gave me the job. And, uh, I said, "Why?" You know, "I'd seen you on, doing other programs punditry and thought you'd be great for our show." He said, uh, you know, "Took a chance with you and, uh, and it works." Uh-

    8. SB

      For 20 years.

    9. CK

      Yeah.

    10. SB

      You must n- you must have a suspicion.

    11. CK

      No, no, not at all. You know, I'm, I was allowed to be just me, so I didn't have to work at it like I had to work at editing those pieces together, you know, the training, playing, uh, interviewing the managers all came natural. Yeah. It was that hard work that I wanted to prove that I could do. Um, but no, I was fortunate, uh, it was just me. Mm-hmm.

    12. SB

      Anne,

  9. 59:14 – 1:04:50

    Your wife Ann

    1. SB

      when did you meet Anne?

    2. CK

      (smacks lips) Uh, we met (laughs) , uh, when I was at Swindon, uh, I got transferred from, uh, Portsmouth to Swindon, my first ever transfer. And, uh, in 1978.

    3. SB

      1978.

    4. CK

      Yeah, 1978. And, uh, we actually played Portsmouth, my first game, uh, for Swindon was at home to Portsmouth and, um, uh, yeah, I had to have a police escort to the game. Um, the, uh, club had been informed by the intelligence that the National Front... 'cause Portsmouth had 200 National Front supporters.

    5. SB

      National Front is this racist organization from-

    6. CK

      Yeah.

    7. SB

      ... couple of decades ago.

    8. CK

      Yeah. So they'd got wind that they were gonna do me in, you know. Um, so, uh, you know, when I played for Pompey, there was a small section of fans that booed you onto the pitch because of your color and booed you off, you know, but like I said, back in those days, I didn't care. Not one jot, you know, and I didn't care when they said about this, you know, "You're gonna be null and..."And I said, "Oh, it's just a threat. Don't worry about it." But the police intelligence said, "No, we need to pick you up and, uh, take you to the game and drop you back home." So I did, and, uh-

    9. SB

      You scored.

    10. CK

      ... went to the... Yeah, after 10 minutes.

    11. SB

      (laughs)

    12. CK

      And not like today, uh, where people don't celebrate. Uh, of course, stupid me, you know, with that, this death threat goes straight 'cause I scored in the end where the Pompey fans were (laughs) and, uh, gave it all that. Uh, so, uh, so yeah, no. So, uh, the police escort wanted to take me back to my digs but I said, "No, leave it now, it's fine." And, uh, one of my teammates, Kenny Stroud, uh, his wife Linda was with, uh, this girl called Anne. Uh, and, uh, I asked her out, and, you know, 40 years later, or 43, uh, years later, we're still together.

    13. SB

      What a journey it's been-

    14. CK

      Mmm.

    15. SB

      ... with Anne.

    16. CK

      A long journey, yeah.

    17. SB

      What does she mean to you?

    18. CK

      Uh, everything, you know. It's h- You take wives for granted, or I did, you know, I can't speak for everyone else. Um, but it's only when you have a problem like this, 'cause, you know, I just live for today, you know. I'm fine, I'm, you know, I'm no problems, don't worry about me. It's on... It's when you have a problem, um, that you have to, you know, look at your closest ones and see what they do for you, and how they react to what you're going through which, you know, is difficult. And then you feel sad about, you know, not sharing things before and keeping things away from...

    19. SB

      How did she react to all of this?

    20. CK

      Um, she, she said she thought for a while, she didn't say anything, she said she thought, uh, for a while that there was something not quite right, but she couldn't put her finger on it. And she's been my rock, you know. Now, you know, I don't, I don't hardly, you know... This is the longest I've spoken to anybody for a long time, you know. And you'll probably see when you edit this tape, sometimes it's slow, sometimes it's coming out okay, now it's coming out okay and it feels fine, you know. And that's all to do with the mind. Maybe I'm talking about a good thing now with Anne, so it's fine and it's free. Uh, so yeah, she's, you know, she's taken the weight, uh, heavy weight off my shoulders and, you know, allowed me to do what I do, to continue doing what I'm doing if I wanna do it. But she does say from time to time, "You're allowed to say no to these jobs that Simon rings up and asks me to do." Uh, but I don't like to let anyone down.

  10. 1:04:50 – 1:08:17

    How are you feeling about your condition?

    1. SB

      You know, I think it's, it's worth saying that I think this, this has been a really, really great conversation. Um, and, uh, I'm actually quite surprised to hear that, of, of how much you struggled previously based on the, we, the conversation we've had today.

    2. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    3. SB

      Because I don't... Um, had I, I don't know if I'm speaking out of turn here, but had I not known about the, um, the condition, this would've been a perfectly normal conversation on this con- on this podcast, so it's really, really interesting and enlightening to, to, to learn more about it. And, uh, I, yeah, I can't imagine as, from a family's perspective as well, going through that journey with their father where you're trying to find answers, you find answers, and then there's that whole s- sort of therapy process to-

    4. CK

      Mmm.

    5. SB

      ... get you back to where you are and the mental health journey that takes us on, which we've not really talked about in detail. But there's the curing the, the condition but then there's, like, living with the cost of the shift, the tectonic shift in your life.

    6. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    7. SB

      Um...

    8. CK

      It consumes your mind, or it has done mine. So every day I wake up, the first thing I think, "Am I gonna be able to talk today?" You know. So immediately I wake up, I'll go in the bathroom and I'll look in the mirror and say a few words and it's fine, or I think it's fine. The perception is fine in my head. And then I'll go downstairs and talk to Anne, and all of a sudden that pathway is restricted and, "Oh God, not again today." You know? And that's been hard to get my head around. And my therapist, uh, Daniel, he says, "You're exaggerating it in your mind, you know, that's the problem because you've never had to think about your speech, now you're thinking and you're overthinking." So even though, like you've said, it seems fine to you, in my head I know that it's slower than...... w- it would've been had we spoken three years ago. Hmm.

    9. SB

      And the, the cognition part, the thoughts, they're, they're still the same?

    10. CK

      Oh. Yeah. They're, they're lightning quick. Yeah. They're fine. So, uh, uh, they're there in terms of speech. But I have days where if you're out and about or, uh, even indoors, there's nothing in the brain area. So, you know, whereas I could normally go into a room, did it all the time, speak to everyone, have a laugh, that was the first thing on my mind. Now, that part of it is hard work, and it feels hard work, and it feels a struggle, and it doesn't feel natural. That's the worst thing. So I tend not to do it very often, you know, unless I'm feeling good. I've, you know, uh, spoken to someone else and I can tell it's fluid, uh, the voice, then I'll go in a room and be myself again. Hmm.

  11. 1:08:17 – 1:12:41

    The last guest question

    1. CK

    2. SB

      Chris, we have a closing tradition on this podcast-

    3. CK

      Yes.

    4. SB

      ... where the, um, last guest asks a question for the next guest. They don't know who they're writing it for.

    5. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    6. SB

      And they'll never find out. Um, although I have said their name earlier on, so you might be able to figure it out. (laughs)

    7. CK

      Right. (laughs)

    8. SB

      (laughs) But, um, the question they've written for you is... I'm gonna read it verbatim. What has been the most happiest moment of your life... full stop, brought you the most joy, and why?

    9. CK

      Uh, is that kids aside or is it including-

    10. SB

      Let's say kids aside 'cause that's-

    11. CK

      Yeah.

    12. SB

      Yeah.

    13. CK

      Yeah. Kids aside, uh, achieving my ambition and my dream. Yeah. Uh, I can, you know, as a young Black kid playing on the fields round where I lived thinking that one day I'll play at Ayresome Park for Middlesbrough and Elland Road for Leeds, uh, it's blown my mind away, you know? Uh, ambition and dream achieved.

    14. SB

      Chris, thank you. I, um, I have no doubt that your ambitions and dreams are, are just getting started because you have all of the, the core, the minerals that are r- it, are required to achieve pretty much anything, and you've shown that your life has been a testament to that, even in the face of great adversity. Thank you. I thank you not just for myself and for you giving me your time today. But, um, I don't think you realize how many people you're going to help in a really important profound way, how much pain you're going to alleviate from them, how you're going to make them feel seen and understood just by doing this today, and just by not hiding in the shadows.

    15. CK

      Thank you.

    16. SB

      So thank you. And thank you for all the joy-

    17. CK

      Thank you.

    18. SB

      ... you've brought me.

    19. CK

      Aw, thanks.

    20. SB

      You've made football fun. You've made it, um, made me understand the game better over the course of p- pretty much my entire life. Um, so I'm, for one, I'm so glad that I still get to see you on the screens-

    21. CK

      Mm-hmm.

    22. SB

      ... and I hope to see you a lot more. I know you've got a show, Ninja Warrior UK: Race For Glory-

    23. CK

      Yeah.

    24. SB

      ... um, which is airing on ITV, which I'm very excited about watching as well.

    25. CK

      Yeah. I'm so glad I did it. You know, I tried to pull out when they rang me and said, "Uh, we've been commissioned for series seven." I went, "Oh, no." And they went, "What do you mean oh, no?" And I went, "Oh, no, you're not getting the old Kenny." And they said, "Oh, don't worry about it." And, uh, I've watched a bit of the first episode, and even though it don't sound like me, it's passable, you know. So, yeah, I hope people enjoy it.

    26. SB

      Well, as you said, 25% of you is better than pretty much most-

    27. CK

      (laughs)

    28. SB

      ... anyone else so w- we'll take that. Thank you so much, Chris.

    29. CK

      Thanks steve.

    30. SB

      An honor. (instrumental music plays) I had a few words to say about one of my sponsors on this podcast. For many years people have been asking for a coffee-flavored Huel, and quite recently Huel released the iced coffee caramel flavor of their, um, ready-to-drink Huels, and I've just become hooked on it over the last couple of weeks. I've been on a really interesting journey with Huel, which I've described and talked about a little bit on this podcast. I started with the berry ready-to-drinks. Then I moved over to the protein salted caramel because it's 100 calories and it gives you all of your essential vitamins and minerals, but also gives you the 20 odd grams of protein you need. And now I'm balanced between them both. I drink mostly the banana flavor ready-to-drink. I've got really into the iced coffee caramel, um, flavor of, of Huel's ready-to-drink, and now I'm drinking that as well as the protein. Make sure you try the new ready-to-drink flavors. The, the caramel flavor is amazing. The, um, new banana flavor as well is amazing, and obviously, as I said, the iced coffee caramel flavor has been a real smash hit. So check it out. Let me know what you think on social media. I see all of your tags and Instagram posts and tweets about Huel. (instrumental music plays)

Episode duration: 1:12:41

Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript

Transcript of episode PYkkRlx-IK4

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

Add to Chrome