David Gandy: Highest Paid Male Model Opens Up About Insecurities & Imposter Syndrome | E102

Steven Bartlett 0:00 The Diary of a CEO Live, my live show, my live reincarnation of this podcast is coming on tour. And it's coming to a city near you. There's a link in the description below, put your email address in and I will email you when tickets go on sale. Can't wait to see you. (upbeat music)

David Gandy 0:17 Everything that people say, "Oh, you're lucky to work with Dolce & Gabbana." And I can say that wasn't luck, it was strategy.

Steven Bartlett 0:23 Cut. What's that impostor voice saying is gonna be found out?

David Gandy 0:26 It's a good question, I suppose.

Steven Bartlett 0:27 Do you have insecurities?

David Gandy 0:28 Yeah, of course I do.

Steven Bartlett 0:29 Has that ever had a impact on you?

David Gandy 0:33 I never believed my own hype. It's very easy once you see yourself in articles and winning awards and everyone's telling you how amazing you are, but I- I suppose I never really did. (dramatic music) I didn't fit in particularly well, and I've seen the extremities of mental health. Me, myself, going to dark periods when nothing would, nothing would suffice, nothing would cheer you up. If you haven't got a thick skin, you shouldn't be in this game. (upbeat music)

Steven Bartlett 1:07 David Gandy. At one point he was one of the highest paid male models in the entire world. A beautiful, beautiful man. And so hearing that and seeing how beautiful he is, would understandably make you assume a lot of things about him. But what you're gonna hear today is that those things are wrong and that you should never judge a book by its cover. How is it possible that someone that looks like David Gandy can describe themselves as having impostor syndrome, being low in confidence, and waiting to be found out? He's now become an entrepreneur. He's focused on launching his brand new brand David Gandy Wellwear, and he's taking on a completely different industry. It's crazy, 'cause when you open people's diaries you never know what you'll find, and what I found in David's today was truly fascinating, unexpected, vulnerable, and extremely surprisingly relatable. So without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. (upbeat music)

Steven Bartlett 2:19 There's a lot of very beautiful people in the world, right? Um, but they don't manage to achieve what you've achieved across multiple disciplines. Whether it's within your modeling career, which is an incredibly competitive-

David Gandy 2:31 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 2:31 ... space to play and one with, shrouded with huge amounts of uncertainty, or whether it's now in business with what you're doing with your brands there and your investments. So my, my question is, what is it about you in your sort of self-diagnosis that has made you rise to the top in those pursuits?

David Gandy 2:52 That's a, a good question to start off with.

Steven Bartlett 2:54 And also where did it come from?

David Gandy 2:55 The easiest one to say is, is probably the modeling one to, to start off with. And that was, um, I questioned why men weren't in the same position as the female supermodels. And you had the equivalent of the, the male supermodels at the time, and you always have that, but they were never to the l- you know, to that level, um, of fame, of, you know, sort of financial rewards of, uh, as, as the female supermodels. And I questioned it. That, that was all. And thought, "Is there a possibility? Is there almost, I suppose, a gap in the market?" The first five years, no one actually realizes that I, I really didn't do that much for the first five or six years. It was, you know, I... Of course we didn't struggle and it was a lot of, um, k- you know, sort of, uh, catalog work. Earning really good money, but it wasn't what I wanted to do. But I got to work with the likes of Chrissy Teigen and Naomi Campbell and those people. And I literally just observed them and asked them questions.

Steven Bartlett 3:57 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 3:58 And sort of got the answers I wanted, and, and I real- realized that it was a business for them. They had great teams, they had great agencies, they had PRs and PAs. It was run as a business. And then you had the guys, you know, who were the top of the fashion at, at the time, it wasn't a business for them. It was a lovely way of making a living and they all felt very fortunate to be there. Some of the time not even admitting that they were models, they were in advertising or marketing as a lot of people used to say. And I- I just used the, the female platform and I went to head of my agency, Tandy Anderson, and said, "I, I don't want to do this commercial work anymore. I don't... It, it doesn't satisfy me. It's not..." And she said, "What do you want to do?" I said, "If I'm gonna do this, I want to be the best at it." And she said, "Right, literally from tomorrow, I've said this a million times, you have to stop all that commercial work 'cause we have to, you have to be perceived then as in, in a total different light to, to get to where you want to be." So every bit of that work, and I said we were earning very good money, I just quit everything. We just, we said no to all the campaign, no to all the catalogs. And then she said to me like, "In a position where you've got... That's what most models are dreaming of earning what..." Not dreaming of, but that's, you know, they see you- yours as an enviable position. I said, "Tan, it's just not what I want to do. I'm not happy doing it." So to me I had nothing to lose because I wouldn't have carried on. So we then started building up this other perception of me within the fashion industry, not the catalog model, not the commercial model, but editorial, a bit more sort of fashion-based. And that's when we instigated a meeting with Dolce & Gabbana, and that's when I did their campaign. The campaign led to Light Blue. And, you know, Light Blue was a, to me, a tick in the box for then to achieve what I wanted to achieve.

Steven Bartlett 5:46 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 5:46 And it was phenomenal success and it still is. But that was, that was what I needed. That was the platform pretty much from there. And then we could put the team together to say, "Where do you wanna be in three years? What, where's the next three years after that? Where do you want to achieve?" And I'm a big believer in having goals.

Steven Bartlett 6:02 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 6:03 Not always having to achieve them, things change, but I'm a big believer in having goals so you know...... roughly where you're, where you want to end up. That's something. And then game is a, I always sort of say, you know, uh, life is like a game of chess, and you're moving pieces to get to that checkmate to where you want to be. And often, it diverts, and you have to have different tactics. But you, you have to have that ambition to know the exact point to where you want to be. And, of course, when you get there, and being a, maybe an entrepreneur or the typical person I am, then I'm on to the next thing. I'm not particularly satisfied, and, you know, "I've achieved that, so what's the next achievement? Where do you go from there?"

Steven Bartlett 6:39 What role

Steven Bartlett 6:40 do you think luck has played? If, as, as you view your journey in hindsight, what role... And, you know, everyone, you know, especially very successful people will always have a kind of different relationship with luck.

David Gandy 6:49 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 6:49 But what role did, do you think luck has played in your journey and h- however you would define luck?

David Gandy 6:57 It annoys me if someone says, "Oh, you're very lucky."

Steven Bartlett 7:00 Hmm.

David Gandy 7:01 And I feel like I have to go on this statement and go, "Hang on, let me just tell you about-" (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 7:04 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

David Gandy 7:05 "... the thing. You haven't seen the hard work that's gone in it." And I realize that sort of gets you nowhere. Um, so listen, I (laughs) was fortunate to be born like I am.

Steven Bartlett 7:15 Hmm.

David Gandy 7:16 Six foot two with the frame I have, with-

Steven Bartlett 7:17 Hmm.

David Gandy 7:18 ... the way I look. And people perceive that as they, the way they do.

Steven Bartlett 7:24 Hmm.

David Gandy 7:24 And it's, you can make money from that.

Steven Bartlett 7:26 Hmm.

David Gandy 7:27 Hugely fortunate. But as you said before, there are a lot of good-looking people. There are a lot of beautiful people. I've admitted myself, again, to my agency, there are 25 better-looking guys on that board. There are 50 better models. I've just cast 10 of them for my brand. They're mi- they were, they're better models than me. They're better spokespeople than me. I was fortunate to be in that position. But then you, as I say, you make your own lucky... Maybe you do.

Steven Bartlett 7:53 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 7:53 So, so every sort of everything that people say, "Well, you were lucky to work with Dolce & Gabbana." And I can say, "Well, let me tell you how this, the story of how we went to meet Dolce & Gabbana, how we instigated that."

Steven Bartlett 8:05 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David Gandy 8:05 That wasn't luck.

Steven Bartlett 8:06 Yeah, yeah.

David Gandy 8:06 It was strategy. And it was not my... I think at the time everyone's going, "You are Armani, you are Ralph Lauren. You are Armani, you are Ralph Lauren." It was Tandy Anson who said, "You are Dolce & Gabbana. You are Dolce & Gabbana. Don't listen to anyone else. You are Dolce." And it was her genius that said and then, then sort of instigated this meeting with them. And then through that, and, and working with Tandy and working with Select, everything we've achieved is strategy, you know.

Steven Bartlett 8:33 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 8:33 It's, it's, it's gone out. It's like think what do you want to achieve? What do you want to... You know, what, what's your goal? And it just, it doesn't just happen. Yes, there's certain opportunities that come around that people approach you.

Steven Bartlett 8:44 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 8:44 But we approach a lot of people with ideas, and we approach other people, "We would love to do this."

Steven Bartlett 8:48 Yeah.

David Gandy 8:48 You know, M&S, it was us who wanted to do that collaboration.

Steven Bartlett 8:54 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 8:54 And I wanted to do it with one of the biggest British institutions that everyone knows and everyone has a great thing, but I wanted to do it with M&S. We had lots of different brands approach us.

Steven Bartlett 9:04 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 9:04 We didn't want to do that. We wanted to do it with M&S. And that, again, like I said, we didn't start off by just doing a collaboration and, you know, a huge deal. It was I had to model for two years with them, prove that I could sell, prove that I could work with M&S. Then we talk about collaboration. Then we would move on and-

Steven Bartlett 9:22 Hmm.

David Gandy 9:22 ... you know, then they trusted me. But it didn't, it's not a finger click, you know. It's, uh...

Steven Bartlett 9:26 Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's... Because the way that luck, um, those moments, the amazing collaboration, that amazing email that comes out of nowhere, in hindsight, because it appears to have come out of nowhere, um, it always appears in hindsight like luck. And I've got my own ex- story, you know, examples from my story where, when I was 18, 19 years old, I went on LinkedIn and typed in "investor". The first person that came up, I emailed him and he invested in my company.

David Gandy 9:48 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 9:48 So (laughs) people think, you know, they say, "You got lucky, right?" (laughs) And I'm like, "Well..." You know, again, it's what, to what you said about the story. "Well, look at the email. It was sent at 3:00 AM," and I show it on stage. I'm like, and I then remove the timestamp, and I'm like, "I was up at 3:00 AM thinking-"

David Gandy 10:02 Exactly.

Steven Bartlett 10:02 "... about emailing people." So for me-

David Gandy 10:03 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 10:03 ... action and what you described there as, like, that smart, strategic work is just increasing probability-

David Gandy 10:08 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 10:08 ... that, you know, you might get what people call luck. And, um, in that moment with Dolce & Gabbana, um, when, when you, you form that, that partnership with them, how pivotal was

Steven Bartlett 10:19 that for you and the trajectory of your career? In like real terms.

David Gandy 10:25 Light blue is the reason I'm here, and I'm, you know, the, the famous commercial. But again, you could look back to that, that when I came into modeling, uh, the circle of the fashion world at that stage of what was b- seen as fashionable was the small, androgynous, skinny guy.

Steven Bartlett 10:42 Hmm.

David Gandy 10:43 Now, I'm over six foot two. I was quite skinny when I came in, but I'd built up, and I just got bigger. And everyone else said, "You need to get smaller. You need to fit in. You need to... You're too big. You're getting too big." That's where I was happiest. I wasn't doing it for everything, you know. I was always playing sport. I wanted to continue. I couldn't play sport anymore, so I was in the gym. And it was, you know, to have a good physique and be healthy was the way I was happiest, in my head, in my wellbeing. So that's what I did. And I, and in a way, I just looked at the models and Titan Beckwess and Titan Ballou and Paul Scofa and all these different people that were, you know, the Levi's guys.

Steven Bartlett 11:23 Hmm.

David Gandy 11:24 You know, the famous Levi's ads that we used to, used to look at them. The Ralph Lauren guys. I was like, they're all big, muscular, classically handsome guys, and they were the biggest in the industry. So I just thought, "This has got to come round at one point." So when it actually came round to that creative for light blue, of course, there was a smaller pot 'cause everyone had followed each other.

Steven Bartlett 11:44 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David Gandy 11:45 And then there was me. And we'd just done the campaign with Dolce & Gabbana, and then we went to do, and do light blue. But that, the day it came out, um, it just changed everything. I mean, literally changed everything. And I hate when people say that one. But it, it was, went from that campaign going out in the afternoon, phone not stopping, and I think I went to New York, and my agency just called up and just said, "We've got Telegraph, The Times, The Mirror. They all want to speak to you. They all want to have an interview with you."And we didn't have PRs at that point.

Steven Bartlett 12:15 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 12:16 You know, this was... I was like, "Okay."

Steven Bartlett 12:19 (laughs)

David Gandy 12:19 "How does this work?"

Steven Bartlett 12:20 Yeah. (laughs)

David Gandy 12:20 Um, very green about it all, but exciting. Yeah, so that, so that, so that, that changed.

Steven Bartlett 12:26 Um, so, uh, you're talking there about lifestyle. How-

David Gandy 12:28 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 12:28 ... did your lifestyle change? And I want to know about, like, how people treated you, and friends, and you know, romantic potential partners. When that, that blows up for you, the phone doesn't stop ringing-

David Gandy 12:39 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 12:39 ... how does your world shift from a, like a very personal perspective?

David Gandy 12:43 Friends have never changed. They're great. And we're still, you know, on, all on WhatsApp groups and see each other. I don't see them as much. They all live closer together and, and that's a shame really. But it's just never changed. I get the absolute-

Steven Bartlett 12:56 Roasting. (laughs)

David Gandy 12:57 ... roasting all the time. I'm just an easy target.

Steven Bartlett 13:00 (laughs) Yeah.

David Gandy 13:00 So you can just Google my name-

Steven Bartlett 13:02 (laughs)

David Gandy 13:02 ... and there are so many pictures that keep appearing online. Okay, I can't really say much of that.

Steven Bartlett 13:07 (laughs) ?

David Gandy 13:07 (laughs) So, but, and that's it. You know, it keeps you... And I love that. No one takes themselves too seriously. And I think hopefully that's what I didn't do too much is, and I always said to people, if models ever come up to me now and say, "What made you different?" Or, "How did... What did you learn?" I said, "I never believed my own hype." It's very easy once you see yourself in articles and winning awards and everyone's telling you how amazing you are, to, to believe that. But I, I suppose I never really did.

David Gandy 13:31 Um-

Steven Bartlett 13:31 Do you have imposter syndrome?

David Gandy 13:33 Yes. Yeah, yeah, of course. Absolutely.

Steven Bartlett 13:36 And what does that mean in practical terms in your mind, in your thoughts?

David Gandy 13:40 You're always waiting to be found out, I think, at the end of the day. Always waiting for, you know, someone to go, "Okay." Like, "Come on." If you've had a really good inning. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 13:49 Even 15 years in-

David Gandy 13:50 But, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 13:51 ... do you still think ?

David Gandy 13:51 Well, 20, 20 years in.

Steven Bartlett 13:52 20 years.

David Gandy 13:52 When you've had a good innings. You know, I'm, I'm still thinking that today to be found out. B- you do that by putting yourself at risk at something as well. Like, I suppose there's, there is the risk and reward. So everything I do, there has to be a slight risk. Otherwise, it's not sort of worth, I suppose me, me doing it. So there's always got to be that risk of failure in many ways. And I don't mind failure. I've learned more from failure than I have from success, to be honest. And that risk element of, you know, if Vanity Fair asking me to write an article. I mean, I'm not a writer. To do that is scary. And I won't have anyone write it for me. I have to do it. We're going back to the integrity thing.

Steven Bartlett 14:33 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 14:33 I have to do it. That goes for sort of the fashion game to collaborating with brands, to investing, you know. As you know, it's, you know, it's a risk. There is an element of risk I take into, I suppose, everything.

Steven Bartlett 14:45 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 14:45 And I suppose it makes life exciting.

Steven Bartlett 14:47 What do you think, when you say, "Be found out," what's gonna be found out? What's that imposter voice saying is gonna be found out?

David Gandy 14:56 Good question. I suppose, have you bitten off too much than you can chew? But no one can be as, as, uh, harsh a critic to me as I am myself.

Steven Bartlett 15:07 Hmm.

David Gandy 15:08 I will beat myself up in something failures. I will beat myself up if I don't do the best job. Um, so no one can affect me like that by actually saying anything, because I'm my worst critic.

Steven Bartlett 15:19 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 15:19 So yeah, that's a actually good point of what someone, you know, what that voice is going to say to me.

Steven Bartlett 15:23 Just a whisper of doubt, I guess. That maybe... Well, the way that I typically think about imposter syndrome, or at least I've seen it in my business, I, there's a couple of, like, top level of execs in my business that talk about imposter syndrome a lot. And it sounds like, um, yeah, exactly what you described there, like biting off more than you can chew, and are you really capable and experienced enough to be at this level doing this thing?

David Gandy 15:45 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 15:45 Do you, do you really have the skills?

David Gandy 15:47 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 15:47 There's other people that are smarter and better and that have, you know, you know-

David Gandy 15:50 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 15:50 ... won more awards or are more, you know, experienced.

David Gandy 15:53 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 15:54 Something like that.

David Gandy 15:55 There's also the side that, and it's not about money, it's about success, there's a lot of people that actually don't particularly want other people to do well.

Steven Bartlett 16:03 Hmm.

David Gandy 16:05 And-

Steven Bartlett 16:05 Most people. (laughs)

David Gandy 16:07 (laughs) They will try to bring you down in s- in many ways and put doubts in your mind. You know, it's like the sort of the backhanded comment I, as I, as I always sort of call it. It's, it's hard for someone... And I've, I've learned, you know, sort of that from other people's comments and what they've said to me, and I'd made sure I never ever do that. And I always just encourage people, and if I can help, I will help them. And that's probably where my investments have come from in many ways, is I've had this opportunity and I haven't borrowed a penny in my life to get to where I was. Uh, you know, I, I, when I first went to New York for modeling, I used to go around and couldn't afford to eat in nice places. So every time I'd go on, like, castings, I was walking around all day and going to shoots. I would then go past a, uh, like, a diner, and they would have a special deal on too. It'd be like a burger, fry, and something else for 5.95.

Steven Bartlett 16:57 (laughs)

David Gandy 16:57 And I would write it down and go, "I've got to remember to come back here because it's 5.95-

Steven Bartlett 17:01 (laughs)

David Gandy 17:01 ... plus taxes." Like, and I suppose I can have a beer and it might be $10. That's the way I used to have to think because I just didn't, didn't have anything. Then, I've always wanted to then, I think I'd never really had any help, but I would like to help people.

Steven Bartlett 17:12 Talking about helping and helping people and then other people tearing people down.

Steven Bartlett 17:16 With female models-

David Gandy 17:17 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 17:17 ... I think we can all quite easily believe how nasty comments would affect them.

David Gandy 17:22 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 17:22 But there's something in, in, I think, the public perception or within society where we think, "Oh, if you slag off a male model, if you criticize them, say nasty things about them, eh, they'll be fine." If you go on Twitter, for example-

David Gandy 17:34 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 17:34 ... it's totally okay just, uh, people will tweet at Piers Morgan all day saying, "You're a fat blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." But the people would never do that to, to... Well, they would, but it would be much... It would be considered much differently-

David Gandy 17:45 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 17:45 ... if they were saying that to a woman. I believe that to be true. So I guess my ultimate question here ultimately is like, have st- strangers criticizing, saying nasty things on the internet about you, how you look or whatever, has that ever had a impact on you?

David Gandy 18:04 In this business anyway, if you haven't got a thick skin, you shouldn't be in this game. You've got to have a thick skin. And it's... What I understood, and I've probably only actually understood this from having to cast myself for people to represent my brand, is that...You're not being horrible to someone, someone doesn't fit what you have perceived in your head. And that could be for any reason whatsoever. Um, the attitude you bring into it, the charisma you come into that day on that casting, the way you look. And it could be anything.

Steven Bartlett 18:36 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 18:36 That person's too skinny, that person's too tall, that person's not big enou- you know, anything. And you have to realize that when you were casting, is they weren't, it wasn't personal. It was almost business. "No, you just don't fit the creator that we want at the moment." That changes when you have a name, that changes when you have a brand, because they're buying into your brand. They're buying into your engagement-

Steven Bartlett 18:55 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 18:55 ... or your fans. That's different. But when they first look at you at face value... And there's different people, you know. There's, there have been castings where they're on the phone, they don't say anything to you, you put the book down, they go through two pages and they hand it back to you.

Steven Bartlett 19:07 Really?

David Gandy 19:08 Now, that is a bit demoralizing. But hey, you know, like I've always made sure... And I probably overcompensated that because I've been on the other side of, you know, casting, casting other people-

Steven Bartlett 19:17 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 19:17 ... whereas I probably kept there for too long and just chatted and-

Steven Bartlett 19:19 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 19:19 ... everything else. So-

Steven Bartlett 19:21 What about internet trolls though? Like someone on Instagram or in your DMs just, you post something and they just, "Wah." No?

David Gandy 19:28 I'm very for- I'm very fortunate that my fan base, which is a very organic fan base actually, on, on social, are massively kind and positive. And that's the way I've always pushed social. I'm not a big lover of social media.

Steven Bartlett 19:44 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 19:44 Um, I've stated it before. I see the uses of it, I see the brilliance of it. I also see the negativity from it, especially for young children. I've spoken out about that. Um, yes. Does, do things affect... Yeah, of course. You probably know this, is that you might see 100 comments all positive, and then 101 comment, 102 comment is negative, and you'll remember it. You'll remember those two comments.

Steven Bartlett 20:09 (laughs)

David Gandy 20:09 It's like you can't remember the other 100 that are positive, and it's a really weird thing. So it's a bit like dealing with people. You deal with the nice ones, you don't deal with the negativity.

Steven Bartlett 20:18 Yeah. (laughs)

David Gandy 20:18 And that's what we've tried to do, really.

Steven Bartlett 20:20 And, again, another

Steven Bartlett 20:22 sort of social, I guess, um, not s- maybe stereotype, but sort of misunderstanding would be that someone that is, you know, makes their career out of modeling-

David Gandy 20:29 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 20:29 ... someone that's very, you know, um, attractive, um, like yourself, um, surely they can't have insecurities. Surely they realize that they are, you know... Surely they can't have self-doubts like us muggles who had, GQ are yet to call. (laughs)

David Gandy 20:46 (laughs) Doesn't everyone have insecurities? I can't believe that-

Steven Bartlett 20:49 You tell me.

David Gandy 20:49 ... there's not a person that doesn't have insecurities.

Steven Bartlett 20:51 Do you have insecurities?

David Gandy 20:52 Yeah, of course I do. Absolutely. It's why I always

Narrator 20:55 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 20:55 Physical insecurities?

David Gandy 20:56 Mm-hmm. Of course I do. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Steven Bartlett 20:59 Had you said something about your, if your nose and your, (laughs) your nose and-

David Gandy 21:02 If my nose and my eyes got any bigger, or if my nose and my ears got any bigger, which they do, they're the only things that came, like I'd just look like the BFG soon.

Steven Bartlett 21:07 (laughs)

David Gandy 21:08 Also, I think something that, going back to the, the sort of trolling and Instagram that is this thing about age now. Age is used as a weapon. "You're so old. Look at all your wrinkles." It actually sort of makes me laugh when people say, "My God, you..." Like, most people have positive comments but they can say, "Oh, you're getting older." Yeah. Everyone is. I've been in this game for 20 years. If you're comparing an image from 20 years ago, I'm not gonna look the same. But it's almost like it's a negative thing.

Steven Bartlett 21:38 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 21:39 You know, it's... And that, that's... I've, I've noticed that increasing over the last couple of years, is this age thing is used as a weapon, as if it's a bad thing.

Steven Bartlett 21:48 Does that bother you?

David Gandy 21:50 No. I always feel I've always been quite an old man in a young, young man's body anyway.

Steven Bartlett 21:54 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 21:54 So, uh, (clears throat) or should I say mature?

Steven Bartlett 21:57 (laughs)

David Gandy 21:57 But, um, no. You grow old-

Steven Bartlett 22:01 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 22:01 ... at the end of the day. You grow a little bit wiser, you grow a little bit, you, you calm down a little bit more.

Steven Bartlett 22:06 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 22:06 And you, you, you accept yourself for who you are a little bit more as well. 20s and 30s, 30s less, but 20s can be quite tricky for everyone.

Steven Bartlett 22:15 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 22:15 You don't quite know who you are, and you're trying to be... Trying to find out where you are in the world. You then, I think, you get a bit more confidence in your 30. And I, that's where my 30 sort of came from, to, "Why are you trying to be something else, or trying to fit in?"

Steven Bartlett 22:28 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 22:30 And I never fit in. I've never fitted in ever, anywhere really particularly well. Um, or felt I haven't particularly fitted in. You know, in the fashion industry, I've never felt I fitted in. I was telling, um, a, a model the other day actually, we were working with... And we all used to go off to, uh, New York for this big casting, two weeks, try and get the jobs with all the, all the big agencies. And you would go, go in a group of probably about 10 guys, and you'd, you'd have a list. Back in those days, you would have a fax, believe it or not. We didn't have mobile phones, it was a fax.

Steven Bartlett 23:03 A fax.

David Gandy 23:03 So you got your fax in the morning, you had all your appointments, nine o'clock, 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock, ba- all the way through. Everyone used to go down to the subway (clears throat) or walk and we'll go together. And there was this very pack mentality. And I was never into that pack mentality. I was quite always a... I'd say a much more to an individual sort of loner. So I used to look at the fax, and I used to let them go around the corner, and I would virtually take it upside down and do the opposite way. So those nine guys would go to the nine o'clock and I would go to the six o'clock. And I would just turn up at the office and go, "Hi, I'm S- I know I'm supposed to be here at nine o'clock, but is John someone in?" They'd be going, "Yeah, yeah, he's here." And I'd go, "Can I see him?" You take the opportunity when you've got... Imagine going through seeing nine guys, speaking to nine guys, looking about. By the third person, you're like, "I'm, they're gonna be bored," and you take the opportunity. So I did that all the way around. And that's what I did kind of all the time. It was thinking constantly of like outside the box of doing something different.

Steven Bartlett 23:58 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 23:59 Yeah, uh-

Steven Bartlett 23:59 It's amazing how these small things can create such significant... Like it's such a marginal thing can create such a big gain. And most people are obviously, they don't even try and think outside of the, the script. And so they end up, you know, competing-

David Gandy 24:12 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 24:13 ... uh, in, in a very saturated way for a, a limited amount of rewards. But one slight innovation in the process, I think can deliver such an exponential return. (paper rustling) Do you know what I hate? I hate...... powder. I hate mixing powder with water. I hate protein powders that you have to mix with water, up until now. And, um, obviously Huel sponsors this podcast, so I'm tremendously biased. But that's a true, that's a true story. I've never been able to use the, like, MyProtein powders that you mix with water, 'cause I always think they taste absolutely awful, up until Huel released their brand new protein flavor. The amazing thing about all of these proteins is there's 20 grams of protein. You get all of your vitamins and nutrients, 26 of those. And as Huel always is, it's nutritionally complete. And if you are someone that's trying to go a little bit lower on the calories, it's only 105 calories. So when I wake up in the morning, especially after working out a lot lately, come downstairs, quickly blend it together in my NutriBullet, drink it, it's 100 calories, and then I, my next sort of main meal, 'cause I'm, I'm a breakfast skipper, will be at lunchtime. Highly recommend it. Um, and I shouldn't say this, 'cause I don't have any approval to say this, but there's some amazing, amazing flavors coming in the ready-to-drink range that I've been lucky enough to try. Um, and one of those is my new favorite flavor, so stay tuned.

Steven Bartlett 25:28 In the industry of modeling, one thing that I think is probably... I don't have any data to support this claim, but I think is probably rife because of the nature of the business and what I know about the subject of mental health and mental wellbeing, is anxiety.

David Gandy 25:44 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 25:45 And I, I just, I've just seen amongst my friends, um, uh, the women that I know that model, high levels of anxiety, um, for a variety of reasons. Um, have you ever suffered with anxiety yourself at any point in your career?

David Gandy 26:03 I'm naturally a shier person, but shyness is not anxiety.

Steven Bartlett 26:07 Mm.

David Gandy 26:07 So I can't say, I mean, if I probably gave someone symptoms of stuff I've had or things I've had, then they might say, "Well, that's anxiety."

Steven Bartlett 26:14 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 26:14 My anxiety, if I still think of, now there's, there's a weird thing of when I hear the music to the Antiques Road Show on a Sunday night, I still have anxiety that I haven't done my homework and I have to go to school the next day.

Steven Bartlett 26:30 Really?

David Gandy 26:30 That's how much I hated... Didn't hate, I hated school up to a certain point. Sixth form was great with my friends that I still have. But that was the point of I still have that today.

Steven Bartlett 26:41 Really?

David Gandy 26:41 When I hear that music, I literally stop and I'm like, "Oh," you know, "Oh, I don't have to go to school tomorrow." Which was the weirdest thing.

Steven Bartlett 26:46 Why, what was so bad about school?

David Gandy 26:48 I mean, I was, I didn't fit in at school. Th- that was basically it. It wasn't, you know, all good friends from that school, but it was just a certain time before I kind of met those people, um, the group of guys I call and girls I used to, you know, sort of hung around with. And there was bullying and there was... I just didn't fit in, that was all it was.

Steven Bartlett 27:07 Bully- so you were bullied in s- in school, primary school or secondary school?

David Gandy 27:10 Secondary school, yeah. But no, primary was, primary was quite fun. Enjoyed primary school. Secondary school was just something different. Maybe went to the wrong school. Maybe made the wrong choices. Don't know. It was me, it wasn't... I'm not blaming anyone. Not blaming anything. It was just that I was quite steadfast on not fitting in. I didn't fit in particularly well, and I wasn't gonna change my way of fitting in to everyone else.

Steven Bartlett 27:32 In what way didn't you fit in?

David Gandy 27:33 I'd, I just... A bit like the same now. I'm still like it. I'm still... In the fashion industry, that example of not being in that group, not, not being in that pack, not doing the same thing everyone does is actually the same thing. I didn't want to be in that. I saw things differently and wanted to do things my way. Maybe that's it. I mean, at the end of the day, may- maybe it was doing something my way. And, and I've always looked at that. That go- that goes on for... That can, that can go into, if you look, it can go into styling. It's like, "Well, no one's wearing suits. I'm not gonna wear suits then."

Steven Bartlett 28:06 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 28:07 "Well, no one's, you know, why don't you do this?" It's like, you know, people still take the mick out of me 'cause I do not own a pair of sneakers or trainers.

Steven Bartlett 28:14 Hmm.

David Gandy 28:15 And the people like now, everyone, that's all they're wearing.

Steven Bartlett 28:18 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 28:18 I have one pair and I go to the gym in them, and I have a running pair. But... And everyone sort of looks at you as if... But I love that fact, you know, it's just me being a little bit different.

Steven Bartlett 28:27 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 28:28 But it, it can also lead to s- you know, being a bit, a little bit stubborn that you take that to a little bit far of not ever relinquishing that. You want to be sort of different like all the time. You want to... I don't know why you do it.

Steven Bartlett 28:41 Was that physical bu- was that bullying because of physical things? They were, they were saying that you were physically different? Or was it like-

David Gandy 28:48 Not physically different, no. No, no.

Steven Bartlett 28:49 The way you thought?

David Gandy 28:51 Maybe it was the way I thought, if you think about that now, yeah. It's just because in, in... I do find this still now in the world that everyone likes to pigeonhole. Everyone like to... You are put in a certain category personally, and if you don't fit in-

Steven Bartlett 29:07 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 29:08 ... then you're strange. You're a strange person. Why don't you like the same stuff? Why don't you wear the same stuff as us? Why don't you think the same way that we think? Of course, it's now got to this like very polarized when, when you have different opinions as they attack each other now. It's like it's either left or right.

Steven Bartlett 29:23 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 29:23 There's nowhere in the middle. And it was, it was, I think that element that I've always just... I suppose I've been quite an individual thinker in some ways.

Steven Bartlett 29:32 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 29:32 Which kind of... And that's might put me in good stead for the business we're in.

Steven Bartlett 29:36 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 29:37 Um, but yeah, the anxiety thing, maybe it's confidence. Ag- again, when I was confident into going something, I was absolutely fine. You know, I just wanted an opportunity. That was always what I want to be able to... Um, you know, people will say, "Why have you not gone into acting? Why have you not..." I'm not confident. If there's anxiety, give me a script to learn and try and put me, you know, in front of a camera and you'll see that's where I'll probably be anxiety. Although I've done that and I achieved that and I quite loved it. So it was a scary side of it, but it's not something I'm naturally good at. And there is-

Steven Bartlett 30:11 Isn't that... You know, people would, peop- again, talking about naivety, right? People would never guess that you would say you weren't confident. And it's almost like the conve- you know, what the conversation I had with Ben Fogle.

David Gandy 30:23 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 30:23 You would just... It's just not what you would expect based on like stereotypes. One would expect you to be an extrovert.

David Gandy 30:29 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 30:30 You know, super confident.

David Gandy 30:31 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 30:32 Some kind of, you know, very loud, you know, braggadocious, boisterous guy. But you appear to be the opposite of that. And especially on the point of confidence.

David Gandy 30:42 Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say I've got a lack of confidence. There's a lack of confidence where I, I think I know my limitations maybe.

Steven Bartlett 30:48 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 30:48 And when I... But I also like pushing those limitations to see where I can get to and seeing what I can achieve and learn. Um, but the confidence, I mean, GQ awards we went to two weeks ago. And you sign up, you're-

Steven Bartlett 31:05 I didn't get an invite, by the way. (laughs)

David Gandy 31:06 Got the red... (laughs) I'll have to sort this out with GQ.

Steven Bartlett 31:09 (laughs)

David Gandy 31:09 Um, you're on the red carpet, done it a million times before. There's still dread filled in... Like, I'm filled with dread to getting on that red carpet and having the pictures taken. It's just not a natural environment for me. And I was thrilled that there was a, you know, a huge long queue 'cause everyone wanted to be on the red carpet. Everyone wanted their picture taken. Everyone wanted to be in the papers and put it on their Instagrams. And I went, "Too long. I'm not, you know... I'm gonna swerve that one." So I swerved it and went upstairs, and went into an environment where I was much happier where actually I needed to speak to a few certain people for a few certain reasons, and went to go and hunt them down and go and speak to them.

Steven Bartlett 31:48 What was it about... What was the sort of psychological discomfort you, you, you f- feel when you think about going on the red carpet and doing that? 'Cause you described going upstairs to a place where you were happier.

David Gandy 31:59 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 31:59 So what's, what's the unhappiness of the red carpet for you?

David Gandy 32:04 Uh, it's just an unnatural environment for me to be in. When you're on set, when you're employed by a brand to create what is in,

Narrator 32:14 (sighs)

David Gandy 32:14 ...you know, it's, it's their vision, you're playing a role. Like Blu, a Mediterranean guy in Italy in small white Speedos. It's not me. It is me, but it's, it's... there's a role you're playing. I know there's actors as well, I've spoken to them about it, they love being in character. But after those characters, they don't want the limelight, they don't want fame, they don't want to speak to anyone, they don't want to do press junkets, they, they hate the red carpet. Exactly the same. So when you're on set, you're almost playing someone else. And there's an element as well of there is this David Gandy. And I talk about it in a third person because that's the brand sometimes I have to talk about. That's the name. So you, you... Yes, you are walking onto a set almost being something else. Not that I'm acting any different. Um, but... And then there is... And the, and the red carpet is just not that environment. I can probably hide behind-

Steven Bartlett 33:08 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 33:09 ... a character or hide behind a role or something when I'm playing on that day. That's me. It's just not something... It, it's strangely weird.

Steven Bartlett 33:16 Draining.

David Gandy 33:18 Yeah. My other half, Steph, love to go out, love to go to events. She gets, you know, such a, you know, a buzz, such... She gets enthusiasm for it, actually. Like, you know, she, she'd love it. And she honestly probably thought that was me right when we first met. I go to an event, I'm drained from people. I'm, I'm actually naturally a loner. I could, can you know... We sort of joke with Steph, when we first met, she would give me the silent treatment and I was just like, "Steph, I've got to tell you now, I'll win at this game because"-

Steven Bartlett 33:47 (laughs)

David Gandy 33:48 ... "I can go off, I can go on for days not talking."

Steven Bartlett 33:51 (laughs)

David Gandy 33:51 I'm used to it, you know. I-

Steven Bartlett 33:53 You prefer it. (laughs)

David Gandy 33:53 Yeah. I've traveled, you know, I travel the world and don't speak to people for days.

Steven Bartlett 33:57 (laughs)

David Gandy 33:57 So, um, it was always kind of a joke between us. So, um, yeah, I'm, I'm... And then when you're naturally... The complete opposite of being alone, you know, I love taking dogs for walks, I love walking for hours on end if I ever, ever get sort of proper time to do it, um, with no one around me. The exact opposite of that is the red carpet-

Steven Bartlett 34:17 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 34:17 ... to me.

Narrator 34:18 Like-

Steven Bartlett 34:18 And your life has put you there because of your success, right? And you must get asked to go to red carpets all the time and events like that all the time.

David Gandy 34:27 Yeah. And there's nothing, uh, nothing... The actual event, um, I mean, again, like presenting, presenting an award, reading off an autocue to present it. I mean, I, it's an honor to do it. I know it's an honor. I know I have to do it. But the whole night, whenever you're presenting, is me on that table not enjoying that evening 'cause I know there is one point that I've got to go up there and be in front of everyone and re-... And I've done it a million times now, and it still doesn't get any easier. It's very, very strange. But, um, you know, there you go. It's easy to accept an award, of course. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 35:01 That's very interesting. Again, again, it's just a real... I think for most people, it'd be a real surprise that, um, someone who is very out there-

David Gandy 35:10 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 35:11 ... visually.

David Gandy 35:11 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 35:12 Yeah.

David Gandy 35:12 No, absolutely, it makes no sense.

Steven Bartlett 35:14 Doesn't want to put themselves out there.

David Gandy 35:14 I understand that myself. I tell people, it makes no sense.

Steven Bartlett 35:16 Have you ever spoken to, like, a therapist about that or anybody about that?

David Gandy 35:19 Probably should do. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 35:20 Yeah.

David Gandy 35:21 But, no, it'd probably be quite interesting to know why I was... And, and actually might help me overcome some fears or un- overcome some anxiety.

Steven Bartlett 35:29 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 35:29 And it does sound very strange. Even when I say it, it makes no sense. Um, and it's probably why maybe I've s-... You know, there's, there's, I've been sort of striving for not to be in front of the camera, especially with my own stuff is to be, being able to be behind it. You know, I've been creative director to quite a few brands now, an advisor, and I, I've gone and helped, just been on so many shoots where I just, "I'll come on as creative director." I don't need to be paid. I just want to... I just love being that creative element to it.

Narrator 35:58 (sighs)

David Gandy 35:59 James Smith the General asked me and the RAF, and Breitling asked me to direct a RAF film. Loved it. Absolutely loved not... I wasn't in front of the... And it was, they were like, "No, no, we want you to be in front of it." I was like, "Absolutely not. I'll direct it, and I'll cast someone else for it-"

Steven Bartlett 36:12 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 36:12 "... who I think is perfect for it 'cause I'm not perfect. I'm not good enough for that, you know, not good enough, but I just don't suit that role."

Steven Bartlett 36:18 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 36:18 "So I need someone else for that." Again, people look at me and they go, "Why would you not want to put yourself in that?" Because I'm not, I wasn't, I'm not the right part for it.

Steven Bartlett 36:25 Why?

David Gandy 36:26 Just because the concept I've come up with in my head is not me-

Steven Bartlett 36:29 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 36:30 ... for that role. I see someone else.

Steven Bartlett 36:31 Sure.

David Gandy 36:32 It's, it's casting, you know. It's, it's... Think of-

Steven Bartlett 36:34 For you-

David Gandy 36:35 If you think of the greatest role, you know, if you think Top Gun, you think Tom Cruise. What if they had put someone else in that? Would that have been the, the success it would be? Probably argue no.

Steven Bartlett 36:44 You got asked to do Fifty Shades of Grey, right?

David Gandy 36:46 I got...

Steven Bartlett 36:47 ... or did you-

David Gandy 36:47 It's a rum- kind of a rumor. I got... I, I met the, uh, met the author, and she said, "We would love to send you the script."

Steven Bartlett 36:53 What did she say?

David Gandy 36:54 It was then. And I think it might have got, got sent. And I'd, I'd, I'd, I admit I'd never read the books. And yeah, I mean, they had, they had... I mean, Jamie didn't... You know, Jamie Dornan is an awesome actor, you know. He was a model. I mean, he was one of... You know, he was one of the biggest models, but he wanted to go into acting, and he's a great actor. You know, he's very, very smart. And I... There, you know, if I ever went... You know, I won't go into acting, but looking at that, I was like, "I'm not... I couldn't beat Jamie."

Steven Bartlett 37:23 Hmm.

David Gandy 37:23 "I couldn't be as good as that. He's very, very good." And then you look at the other levels of, of sort of, uh, of other actors, and you just think, "It's not something I was... I could, I could learn. I could, you know, sort of learn to be quite good in it, but I, but I could never probably, you know, be the best at it."

Steven Bartlett 37:41 Also, I heard about Hercules 300. You were, you were offered-

David Gandy 37:44 Yeah. I mean-

Steven Bartlett 37:44 ... various roles.

David Gandy 37:44 ... of course. I mean, you're always gonna be asked to do stuff like that, just from the physical element of the way I look, and, you know, I'm gonna be a part in it. But it was, wasn't anything I was-

Steven Bartlett 37:55 Hmm.

David Gandy 37:55 I've been, you know... And the, the... I, I got my bee in the bonnet about the industry I'm in and where I... What I wanted to achieve in this. So there's, there's, there's always... I always said there's a couple of roles I would play, and I would drop everything to go and play it. And there's just a couple of stories that I love that I've even-

Steven Bartlett 38:13 Which ones?

David Gandy 38:15 One of them is about Winston Churchill's bodyguard, uh, Walter Thompson. I even found out who owns the rights to the... To it all. And just the most incredible story. And he was originally from Epping in Essex. And, yeah, Winston Churchill asked him to come back in the Second World War. He used to be his bodyguard, then he stopped, and then he came back. And just the most incredible diary. You can imagine the diaries (laughs) of being Winston Churchill's bodyguard. Wasn't easy-

Steven Bartlett 38:42 Yeah.

David Gandy 38:42 ... of course. Fascinating, because, of course, Winston Churchill, that, uh... I can't remember. They called his episodes the black something or other, which we now probably know as bipolar.

Steven Bartlett 38:54 Hmm. Yeah, yeah.

David Gandy 38:55 You know, and Walter Thompson was the person that protected everyone or protected him from everyone seeing that.

Steven Bartlett 39:01 Wow.

David Gandy 39:01 So, uh, yeah, just kept everyone away from seeing, seeing those episodes, so no one sort of realized.

Steven Bartlett 39:07 Speaking

Steven Bartlett 39:08 of, um, mental health disorders then, um, you, you've... You know, you're a, an ambassador of a men's mental health charity.

David Gandy 39:14 We're working with... Yeah, and we're also working with Calm and, um-

Steven Bartlett 39:17 Oh, good.

David Gandy 39:17 ... a few others for, for the new brand, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 39:19 Oh, amazing. And, um, your new brand has a big sort of theme around men's wellness.

David Gandy 39:26 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 39:26 And, um, what does... What... I guess the question is why. Why did that matter to you? And, like, th- this is also why I asked the question around anxiety, because I was... For you to make it a kind of... Mental well-being, let's say, a central part, and mental wellness a w- a central part of your brand-

David Gandy 39:40 Mm. Mm.

Steven Bartlett 39:41 ... and your mission-

David Gandy 39:42 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 39:43 ... um, one would assume that you've had, A, an experience with it close to home. Because I think that's one way that people typically generate a t- ton of empathy towards the subject matter, is feeling it, feeling the pain of it, whether within themselves or within loved ones.

David Gandy 39:57 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 39:57 So, what was it for you that made you care so much about that?

David Gandy 40:01 I've never suffered from depression as... And I'm very fortunate that from... As, as badly as other people have. And I've witnessed it, because I've dated people that were then diagnosed with bipolar, and I've seen the extremities of mental, you know, mental health. Um, me, myself, and I admit it's, it's not happened for a while, would go into dark periods knowing I would snap out of it eventually. But they, they were dark, but nothing would... Nothing would suffice, nothing would cheer you up. Just quite in a dark place, wanting to be on my own, just not around anyone. Um, wasn't triggered by anything, but you just... One day, I just knew I'd wake up and it was gone. Just a chemical, a chemical reaction in your brain is basically what, what it is. And yeah, so I've... I, I do understand, and I can spot it in other people as well.

Steven Bartlett 41:00 What, what were the symptoms of it for you, those dark periods?

David Gandy 41:05 The symptoms, as I, as I, as I said, was, was just nothing would make you... You, you couldn't snap out of it. It was... Nothing could make you happy or cheerful. You... Well, you didn't like anyone. You didn't want to b- uh, be around anyone. Um, it's hard to... Uh, th- the feelings are hard to explain. And it was... You know, it never got to any point of seriousness. I mean, I've seen people with bipolar that will be in a room for hours on end, for days on end, watching the same TV series 'cause that... Their safety is watching that TV series. It makes them a little bit happy, you know, because of just that safety for some reason. So I've seen, I've seen the, the real dark side of it. And I've also, from me dating someone like that, of how hard it is to deal with it, because you always want to try and make that person better-

Steven Bartlett 41:59 Hmm.

David Gandy 42:00 ... and you can't, uh, in, in many, many ways. It's... You can talk, and you have to be... You know, it, it... And it's about just being patient and listening to people and trying to get them, you know, help-

Steven Bartlett 42:14 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 42:14 ... professional help. There is an element where you... You know, uh, I can only talk about certain things at that point, and then it comes to an expert help that, that they have to talk. And that's what Calm does, you know. It's, it's, it's allowing people to talk to people. Um, and there are people that are far better. You know, people need to listen to people. That's, that's the point of it. I think there's a lot of people who, even if they are talking to people, they're not listening.

Steven Bartlett 42:38 Hmm.

David Gandy 42:39 Fortunately, it's never been that bad.

Steven Bartlett 42:41 Mm.

David Gandy 42:42 But, uh, I do understand it.

Steven Bartlett 42:44 Do you sleep well?

David Gandy 42:45 No.

Steven Bartlett 42:45 I heard you hadn't slept well for

Steven Bartlett 42:47 almost two decades.

David Gandy 42:48 No, never slept well. I didn't sleep when I was a child.But I did, it was the other way around. Went to bed early, got up, you know, went to bed, go to bed early. And then my parents just left me be in the end. I think they were just so sick of trying to get me to go to bed 'cause I just didn't sleep. And I would be doing my homework at midnight, it's one o'clock in the morning. And I still work now. I was up till two o'clock in the morning working last night. And that, that's another thing when people go, it's about grafting or hard work. Most people are sitting, a lot of people are sitting down at half past eight, nine o'clock in front of a TV, ready to go to bed. Half past eight, I'm going to the gym. Get back at half past nine. Do the shopping on the way home.

Steven Bartlett 43:24 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 43:24 Cook myself some dinner. Go. Doesn't stop. In between is working on the phone, carrying on. Then, then I'll, you know, half past ten, I'll open the laptop and get on with some more work.

Steven Bartlett 43:35 If you're always grafting, as you call it, and it's, and you said it doesn't stop, how does one become happy if they're always striving, if they're always in the future? Uh, like-

David Gandy 43:45 It stopped during the pandemic.

Steven Bartlett 43:46 You... So you, sorry?

David Gandy 43:47 It did stop during the pandemic.

Steven Bartlett 43:48 Oh, you did?

David Gandy 43:48 During the lockdown.

Steven Bartlett 43:49 Really?

David Gandy 43:49 Yeah. You couldn't. My, my, half the business is, my business, the modeling, is traveling pretty much at the end of the day.

Steven Bartlett 43:56 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 43:56 You have to be in locations. That stopped.

Steven Bartlett 43:58 And did that make you happier?

David Gandy 43:59 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 43:59 It made you happier when it all stopped?

David Gandy 44:01 Too financial, you know, it, it affected me financially.

Steven Bartlett 44:05 Yeah.

David Gandy 44:06 And we'd already been affected quite heavily in this industry by, um, say, the Brexit as, you know, the blame of Brexit now, it was the uncertainty of Brexit. So a lot of brands were not spending money, not marketing money, not having, not having budgets, not working with the UK, all these different things. Also uncertainly in brands with social media now of old school campaigns versus digital, which still hasn't quite fizzled out yet. They, they, they, brands don't quite know where they are within the marketing world on how to, how to market to people, how to target people. So it's been affected by it. And, you know, that all kind of Brexit got signed January, whole different world. It was sort of that December, January of, what, 2020, I was off to Milan, I was then going to Spain, I was then going to Greece, I was then going to New York, I was then back to Mi- I had the schedule like it used to be. Going off out to Russia, I'd never been to Russia. I was really excited about. I was going to Russia for the first time. Then the pandemic hit. Everything got canceled.

Steven Bartlett 45:10 And you're saying you were happier during the pandemic?

David Gandy 45:12 Probably shouldn't have been. Yes, I'm unfortunate. I'm very, very fortunate at the fact is that yes, it affected me financially.

Steven Bartlett 45:22 Mm-hmm. But it slowed you down.

David Gandy 45:23 But I've invested well and I've, you know, it, it, it, there's reserves to-

Steven Bartlett 45:28 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David Gandy 45:29 ... point this out. But, um-

Steven Bartlett 45:30 Nice car collection. Yeah. (laughs) Which I wouldn't.

David Gandy 45:33 Exactly. That's an expensive habit, to be honest.

Steven Bartlett 45:35 (laughs) Yeah.

David Gandy 45:35 Um, there's a time probably the only time I actually probably truly switch off and there's a week between Christmas and New Year.

Steven Bartlett 45:41 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 45:41 And that's when everyone, I mean everyone, virtually everyone, is not doing anything during that week.

Steven Bartlett 45:46 Yeah.

David Gandy 45:47 And that's a week where I, I probably switch off the most. And we always sort of go away a week later after that because, because it takes time for people to get back and, and I suppose there is, it is not fear of missing out, it's fear of other people working and I'm not working. I should always be working. And during the pandemic, no one was working.

Steven Bartlett 46:06 How, how can you, how can, how can one be happy with, with their brain saying those things that, that kind of constant

Steven Bartlett 46:12 nagging to be doing something or doing more or to be striving? How can... That sounds like the, the thief of happiness to me.

David Gandy 46:19 The thief of happiness. That's a good one. It should be a book.

Steven Bartlett 46:22 (laughs) It probably is.

David Gandy 46:24 Um, listen, I, I haven't got the answer to that. It's-

Steven Bartlett 46:27 Are you... Would you consider yourself to be a happy person?

David Gandy 46:32 A positive person.

Steven Bartlett 46:33 Why did you avoid the word happiness?

David Gandy 46:35 I don't know, if I'm totally honest. That's something you probably have to ask a, ask a psychiatrist. I don't know. A happy person. I'm a positive person, and I suppose I am a happy person in many ways. Yes, that's right. But I, I tell you, it's just a definition of what's positive, what's happy. Is it all the same thing? So-

Steven Bartlett 46:52 You said in many ways. In what ways do you think you, you might not be a happy person?

David Gandy 47:00 Again, good question. I, I mean, I am. I'm happy. I put myself... Listen, when I'm in control of what I do now.

Steven Bartlett 47:11 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 47:11 That's why I always wanted it. Maybe I'm a control freak. I don't know. The hard work that's where we've got to has allowed me now to, to be in complete control of what my destiny of what I want to do. If I want to... Renovating interior is a huge passion. Love doing it. Looks like a nightmare hard work to for other people, but I strive on it. Renovating classic cars, the same thing. It's... And as I, you know, said to you earlier, you're halfway through you think, "Why am I doing this? Why didn't I just buy a new car or, you know, a new build?" And, but, and then you got over it. But I, but I, the accomplishment is worth it to me, you know, that sense of achievement. That's what I'm striving for.

Steven Bartlett 47:52 Does that ever feel as good though?

David Gandy 47:52 Hmm?

Steven Bartlett 47:52 Does that ever feel as good when you get there?

David Gandy 47:55 Yeah, it does. Not for that long, but it does.

Steven Bartlett 47:57 How long?

David Gandy 47:57 I can tick those.

Steven Bartlett 47:58 Couple of... (laughs)

David Gandy 47:59 Couple of days.

Steven Bartlett 48:00 Couple of minutes. (laughs)

David Gandy 48:01 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 48:02 Four seconds. (laughs)

David Gandy 48:05 Yeah. It's, it's the same feeling as, you know, when we, if we go and shoot Light Blue or something else. And you have to work hard f- you know, in the gym to get. I'm always in pretty decent shape, but that's hard work to get in that shape. And it's getting harder the older I get. Um, and y- you dedicate a lot and you sacrifice a lot to look like that. And then there is that point of, we've shot it, we've seen some of the picture, it looks incredible. You achieved it. And there is this evening of enjoying that. It's then onto the next thing, you know. It's, what are we working on? Not next, but you know, one of the other projects that I'm working on at the time.

Steven Bartlett 48:49 Do you... Have you found that in your career-... dark episodes where you're, where you feel down sometimes follow high episodes. Because there's this really fascinating thing that I was reading about, about gold medal depression, where-

David Gandy 49:01 Hmm.

Steven Bartlett 49:02 ... up to 80% of, um, Olympians, regardless of outcome, regardless of whether they win or they don't-

David Gandy 49:07 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 49:07 ... come back from the Olympics after training, all of that excruciating effort-

David Gandy 49:11 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 49:11 ... and they come back and 80% of them report sort of depressive symptoms.

David Gandy 49:14 Mm-hmm. I've, I've read that. I don't know where I was... I don't know where I've read that. I've read the same thing. And I could actually resonate with that, in, in many ways. Um, yeah, sometimes actually achieving what, what you want is a bit... It's sometimes the journey is the exciting bit, which is a weird thing to say. It's, we are on this journey of, WellWear, David Gandy, the brand at the moment, and it is so much hard work, um-

Steven Bartlett 49:42 Tell me about that.

Steven Bartlett 49:44 That whole inspiration, the journey. Why?

David Gandy 49:49 Why the brand?

Steven Bartlett 49:50 Yeah.

David Gandy 49:51 Because it was what I've wanted to achieve for so long, is have that... To me, to have your own brand. And I didn't know what it was going to be. I am a brand, you know, that's... I say that and it's, makes me sound like a bit of a dick.

Steven Bartlett 50:05 No, but you are. Yeah.

David Gandy 50:05 But it is a brand. And that's what people have to realize, you know, when I say ..........................

Steven Bartlett 50:10 I am as well. (laughs)

David Gandy 50:11 ... that, that... And then I would probably say it's ten years I've, I've thought, "Yes, that's where one day I would like to..." I'm not saying I'm always gonna achieve it. But yes, from the creative side to being in control of that brand. As I'm always in control from, by other brands. Even if I'm collaborating with a brand, there is still an element of control that that brand has. And I always thought, "Yeah, to be in complete control, complete creative control." And that's a risk. I never wanted people to think because I have a name, because I've been in the fashion industry for so long, I could start a brand. Now people do now. You know, they use... Social media's one of the, one of those elements, is you can start something, you can sell it immediately. You've got fans, followers, buyers. It's made the marketplace a very different place. So I went back to really what I did for modeling. Observation, putting myself in the situation where I could learn, and that was M&S.

Steven Bartlett 51:06 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 51:06 The collaboration with M&S. We saw the David Gandy loungewear. No one was doing loungewear. This was, this is... What are we talking about? The concept? It was about six, seven, seven a half years ago? Seven years ago. Lounge, loungewear wasn't a big concept then. It wasn't a, it wasn't something that people thought about. Um, and of course we did sleepwear and T-shirts and everything else, but it was loungewear that really took off and became the third biggest loungewear in the country and was successful. And it had a l- you know, 60% of me in that brand, as in what I wanted to achieve on that brand. But of course you couldn't get that last 40% because that was M&S and I knew where I wanted to go and I knew what needed to be done, but I couldn't push it any further than I sort of could. So that ended, and then the pandemic hit, and, and lockdown. And one of my greatest friends, Charlie T, who has listened to me talk far too long about wanting to start my own thing, and he started his own branding agency, uh, to do exactly what I wanted. And he said, "Well listen, I've started this now. You can be our first client, but we're not talking about this anymore. We've got the time." I've, I've... You know, as, as my best friend, he knows I'm, I'm never really around. He says, "I've got you here." We worked together, you know, "I've got you in the country, we've got time. Let's start it."

Steven Bartlett 52:26 What's your long-term vision then for WellWear? What's the-

David Gandy 52:30 We-

Steven Bartlett 52:30 ... what's the long term? What's it gonna become five, ten years from now?

David Gandy 52:35 I never really tell people where I've got it in my head where something is going, hopefully going to be. And there are small steps to, you know, to where... We haven't even, you know, properly launched, you know. Yeah, the, the first shipping goes out on 22nd of October. Um, but we wanted to do something different with WellWear. We wanted to... To, to the essence of me, it was understanding, and we're calling it sort of WellWear, wellbeing, why clothing, why does some clothing make you feel positive and confident?

Steven Bartlett 53:05 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 53:06 Why does some not?

Steven Bartlett 53:07 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 53:07 And we looked at, we... There's studies done by Amsterdam University and I think it was the scientific, you know, element of, if we put students in comfortable, confident clothing, they're confident, that's comfortable and soft, their results are better than other people who are in uncomfortable clothing and they don't feel as confident or... In fact going in the same with business, it was now why the banks, big banks are saying, "You don't have to wear suits anymore." Because actually a lot of people are more positive, they're a lot more open to work with, they're a lot calmer. It's oxytocin. It's the same thing as feeling the ridiculously, you know, soft pillow or puppy, that softness.

Steven Bartlett 53:47 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 53:47 That soft jumper come... You know, that, that thing you hold onto is oxytocin, it's released into your brain.

Steven Bartlett 53:52 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 53:52 It's a positive, positive mood. And that's what we wanted to do with... And I, and we looked into this, and you know, there was a side to me that was fascinated by the element of it. But I've always wondered, you know, why do I, why do I hold onto that pair of jeans until my ass is falling out the end of it?

Steven Bartlett 54:09 (laughs)

David Gandy 54:09 And I would try and find that pair again when I can't find that pair. And why am I wearing those sweatshirts? Because, well, it was, one, for comfort. And that is an element of lots of things. The materials, um, the breathability, the style. You still gotta look stylish and that-

Steven Bartlett 54:27 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 54:27 ... it makes you feel confident. The fit. That's why, at the end of the day, that's why it was never to me about being trendy. It was being confident. And so many guys say to me, " ... Wellwear Breathe, Wellwear Care. We've, you know, we've sort of put these elements into, um, they're washed into the clothing. There's aloe vera, so pajamas are moisturizing you whilst you sleep. Anti-inflammatory, we've got Wellwear Breathe and, you know, sort of antibacterial elements of it, which is another element of if w- if we were looking at fast fashion. And fast fashion can be an addiction. And people don't realize this addiction that you get a buzz from shopping, but actually you can be hugely affected knowing the impact of fast fashion on the environment. Actually, when that clothing lasts a week-

Steven Bartlett 55:29 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 55:30 ... two weeks. I mean, I'm exaggerating.

Steven Bartlett 55:32 (laughs)

David Gandy 55:32 It lasts, you know-

Steven Bartlett 55:33 Two weeks, yeah.

David Gandy 55:33 But it can be. Some, some people wear it once and chuck it away.

Steven Bartlett 55:35 Yeah.

David Gandy 55:36 It's actually ............................ negatively impact you.

Steven Bartlett 55:40 Okay, so there's a new segment to this podcast we do.

David Gandy 55:44 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 55:44 What we do is we ask our previous guest to leave a question for our next guest. And, um-

David Gandy 55:50 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 55:50 ... I've not read this question yet, but I've just read it then as I said this. Um, so I'm gonna ask you this question-

David Gandy 55:54 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 55:54 ... asked by someone that was sat in this- the chair before you.

David Gandy 55:57 Okay.

Steven Bartlett 55:58 They told me to ask you, "What do you promise to do to make our world a better place?"

David Gandy 56:05 Okay, can I have an easier question?

Steven Bartlett 56:07 (laughs) This guy, yeah, yeah.

David Gandy 56:09 It was, it was a week before.

Steven Bartlett 56:10 Yeah. (laughs) This, uh, yeah.

David Gandy 56:13 Let's, let's take this back to what I hopefully promise to do. Um, there's a number of things I do for a number of charities, but we're-won't talk about that. And then they're not promises. The, the, I suppose the promise is from Wellwear to make people smile.

Steven Bartlett 56:25 Yeah.

David Gandy 56:26 To bring, to bring back some, the positivity that I think is needed somewhere. Although I think we're, we're in this polarized world that we are in-

Steven Bartlett 56:36 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 56:36 ... is just to say, "Fuck it, we're just gonna make people smile and, and, and have a laugh with everything that we do." And, and I think you, uh, you can't put a monetary value on that.

Steven Bartlett 56:46 Yeah.

David Gandy 56:46 So that's what I promise to try and do over the years of Wellwear.

Steven Bartlett 56:50 Perfect. Amazing. Thank you so much. And you're gonna have to write in the book now as well.

David Gandy 56:53 Okay.

Steven Bartlett 56:53 It's a question for someone else.

David Gandy 56:54 Okay.

Steven Bartlett 56:54 But listen, David, thank you so much for your time. Uh-

David Gandy 56:57 Thank you, sir.

Steven Bartlett 56:57 ... it's such a incredibly inspiring and twisting story of yours. And to see where you are now and taking on this, this next adventure in business, I find incredibly exciting. The entrepreneur in me is, is fascinated by, by that. And I understand the challenge of that, so, yeah. And congratulations, and-

David Gandy 57:11 Well, thank you for having me on, sir. It's, um, I wish I could have ... Yeah, you brought out some good, some good questions I probably might need to-

Steven Bartlett 57:17 No. (laughs)

David Gandy 57:17 ... get answered. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 57:18 That's what I, I think I wanna do. I just always wanna pry. But I pry because I'm curious and because I'm like fascinated by those topics myself. It's like there's nothing written down here that's telling me to speak on those t- terms. But yeah, it's so fascinating and y- also your level of self-awareness I think is just really inspiring for a lot of people, so.

David Gandy 57:33 That's kind, sir. I, I, I think it's, I mean, it's just there's a therapeutic thing to-

Steven Bartlett 57:36 Mm-hmm.

David Gandy 57:37 ... talking, of course.

Steven Bartlett 57:37 Yeah. (laughs)

David Gandy 57:38 I mean, men don't do it. We're useless, um.

Steven Bartlett 57:41 Yeah.

David Gandy 57:41 That's mental health, I wanna say, you know, is people asking, you talking.

Steven Bartlett 57:44 Yeah.

David Gandy 57:44 That's what I'm saying, a lot of people don't actually listen.

Steven Bartlett 57:46 Yeah.

David Gandy 57:47 Um, a lot of talking about yourself, but a lot of people talking about themselves at the moment. So there's a therapeutic side to this-

Steven Bartlett 57:53 Yeah, exactly.

David Gandy 57:54 ... for me as well, you know? So it was good.

Steven Bartlett 57:55 That's what, that's actually how it started. It was like, it was like therapy for me 'cause I was doing it on my own, going through my diary and just, you know.

David Gandy 58:00 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 58:00 But, um, it's, it's honestly amazing and, um, thank you so much for giving us that story-

David Gandy 58:04 Thank you, sir.

Steven Bartlett 58:04 ... 'cause it's, um, such an inspiring one. Thank you.

David Gandy 58:06 Thank you.

Steven Bartlett 58:07 Quick one. As you probably know by now, I'm trying to make my life a little bit more sustainable. And I consider myself to be on a bit of a sustainability journey in the same way that I'm on a health journey, and it's a privilege to be able to share that with all of you. And you, you all know, if you've listened to the last podcast, that I traded in my Range Rover Sport in for an electric bicycle, which is now my only veh- vehicle. And next year, hopefully, I'll have my electric car too if Tesla hurry up with the Cybertruck. And that's where MyEnergy comes into my life and my sort of sustainability journey. It makes your life, if you are on that sustainability journey, ten times easier. This is one of their ... if you can't see this, I'm holding it in my hand if you're listening on Spotify or Apple. This is one of their renewable energy products. If you're watching on YouTube, you'll, you'll, you'll see this. This is called the Harvi. It's this very clever little device that allows the Zappi and the Eddi, which I've talked about before on this podcast, to be installed into your home without hard wiring or without batteries or without those, um, god-awful transformers that a lot of people have in their house. It's basically a tiny device that's going to save you both time and money. And for someone like me who doesn't have loads of time on our hands, it's a real lifesaver. If you're looking to make a conscious switch and you need a quick fix that's gonna save you a load of time, then head over to myenergy.com to see this product and many, many more. (instrumental music)