The Diary of a CEODavid Gandy: Highest Paid Male Model Opens Up About Insecurities & Imposter Syndrome | E102
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
125 min read · 24,733 words- 0:00 – 2:19
Intro
- SBSteven Bartlett
The Diary of a CEO Live, my live show, my live reincarnation of this podcast is coming on tour. And it's coming to a city near you. There's a link in the description below, put your email address in and I will email you when tickets go on sale. Can't wait to see you. (upbeat music)
- DGDavid Gandy
Everything that people say, "Oh, you're lucky to work with Dolce & Gabbana." And I can say that wasn't luck, it was strategy.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Cut. What's that impostor voice saying is gonna be found out?
- DGDavid Gandy
It's a good question, I suppose.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you have insecurities?
- DGDavid Gandy
Yeah, of course I do.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Has that ever had a impact on you?
- DGDavid Gandy
I never believed my own hype. It's very easy once you see yourself in articles and winning awards and everyone's telling you how amazing you are, but I- I suppose I never really did. (dramatic music) I didn't fit in particularly well, and I've seen the extremities of mental health. Me, myself, going to dark periods when nothing would, nothing would suffice, nothing would cheer you up. If you haven't got a thick skin, you shouldn't be in this game. (upbeat music)
- SBSteven Bartlett
David Gandy. At one point he was one of the highest paid male models in the entire world. A beautiful, beautiful man. And so hearing that and seeing how beautiful he is, would understandably make you assume a lot of things about him. But what you're gonna hear today is that those things are wrong and that you should never judge a book by its cover. How is it possible that someone that looks like David Gandy can describe themselves as having impostor syndrome, being low in confidence, and waiting to be found out? He's now become an entrepreneur. He's focused on launching his brand new brand David Gandy Wellwear, and he's taking on a completely different industry. It's crazy, 'cause when you open people's diaries you never know what you'll find, and what I found in David's today was truly fascinating, unexpected, vulnerable, and extremely surprisingly relatable. So without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. (upbeat music)
- 2:19 – 6:40
What is it about you that made you rise to the top?
- SBSteven Bartlett
There's a lot of very beautiful people in the world, right? Um, but they don't manage to achieve what you've achieved across multiple disciplines. Whether it's within your modeling career, which is an incredibly competitive-
- DGDavid Gandy
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... space to play and one with, shrouded with huge amounts of uncertainty, or whether it's now in business with what you're doing with your brands there and your investments. So my, my question is, what is it about you in your sort of self-diagnosis that has made you rise to the top in those pursuits?
- DGDavid Gandy
That's a, a good question to start off with.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And also where did it come from?
- DGDavid Gandy
The easiest one to say is, is probably the modeling one to, to start off with. And that was, um, I questioned why men weren't in the same position as the female supermodels. And you had the equivalent of the, the male supermodels at the time, and you always have that, but they were never to the l- you know, to that level, um, of fame, of, you know, sort of financial rewards of, uh, as, as the female supermodels. And I questioned it. That, that was all. And thought, "Is there a possibility? Is there almost, I suppose, a gap in the market?" The first five years, no one actually realizes that I, I really didn't do that much for the first five or six years. It was, you know, I... Of course we didn't struggle and it was a lot of, um, k- you know, sort of, uh, catalog work. Earning really good money, but it wasn't what I wanted to do. But I got to work with the likes of Chrissy Teigen and Naomi Campbell and those people. And I literally just observed them and asked them questions.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
And sort of got the answers I wanted, and, and I real- realized that it was a business for them. They had great teams, they had great agencies, they had PRs and PAs. It was run as a business. And then you had the guys, you know, who were the top of the fashion at, at the time, it wasn't a business for them. It was a lovely way of making a living and they all felt very fortunate to be there. Some of the time not even admitting that they were models, they were in advertising or marketing as a lot of people used to say. And I- I just used the, the female platform and I went to head of my agency, Tandy Anderson, and said, "I, I don't want to do this commercial work anymore. I don't... It, it doesn't satisfy me. It's not..." And she said, "What do you want to do?" I said, "If I'm gonna do this, I want to be the best at it." And she said, "Right, literally from tomorrow, I've said this a million times, you have to stop all that commercial work 'cause we have to, you have to be perceived then as in, in a total different light to, to get to where you want to be." So every bit of that work, and I said we were earning very good money, I just quit everything. We just, we said no to all the campaign, no to all the catalogs. And then she said to me like, "In a position where you've got... That's what most models are dreaming of earning what..." Not dreaming of, but that's, you know, they see you- yours as an enviable position. I said, "Tan, it's just not what I want to do. I'm not happy doing it." So to me I had nothing to lose because I wouldn't have carried on. So we then started building up this other perception of me within the fashion industry, not the catalog model, not the commercial model, but editorial, a bit more sort of fashion-based. And that's when we instigated a meeting with Dolce & Gabbana, and that's when I did their campaign. The campaign led to Light Blue. And, you know, Light Blue was a, to me, a tick in the box for then to achieve what I wanted to achieve.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
And it was phenomenal success and it still is. But that was, that was what I needed. That was the platform pretty much from there. And then we could put the team together to say, "Where do you wanna be in three years? What, where's the next three years after that? Where do you want to achieve?" And I'm a big believer in having goals.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
Not always having to achieve them, things change, but I'm a big believer in having goals so you know...... roughly where you're, where you want to end up. That's something. And then game is a, I always sort of say, you know, uh, life is like a game of chess, and you're moving pieces to get to that checkmate to where you want to be. And often, it diverts, and you have to have different tactics. But you, you have to have that ambition to know the exact point to where you want to be. And, of course, when you get there, and being a, maybe an entrepreneur or the typical person I am, then I'm on to the next thing. I'm not particularly satisfied, and, you know, "I've achieved that, so what's the next achievement? Where do you go from there?"
- SBSteven Bartlett
What role
- 6:40 – 10:19
What role has luck played in your success
- SBSteven Bartlett
do you think luck has played? If, as, as you view your journey in hindsight, what role... And, you know, everyone, you know, especially very successful people will always have a kind of different relationship with luck.
- DGDavid Gandy
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But what role did, do you think luck has played in your journey and h- however you would define luck?
- DGDavid Gandy
It annoys me if someone says, "Oh, you're very lucky."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
And I feel like I have to go on this statement and go, "Hang on, let me just tell you about-" (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- DGDavid Gandy
"... the thing. You haven't seen the hard work that's gone in it." And I realize that sort of gets you nowhere. Um, so listen, I (laughs) was fortunate to be born like I am.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
Six foot two with the frame I have, with-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
... the way I look. And people perceive that as they, the way they do.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
And it's, you can make money from that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
Hugely fortunate. But as you said before, there are a lot of good-looking people. There are a lot of beautiful people. I've admitted myself, again, to my agency, there are 25 better-looking guys on that board. There are 50 better models. I've just cast 10 of them for my brand. They're mi- they were, they're better models than me. They're better spokespeople than me. I was fortunate to be in that position. But then you, as I say, you make your own lucky... Maybe you do.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
So, so every sort of everything that people say, "Well, you were lucky to work with Dolce & Gabbana." And I can say, "Well, let me tell you how this, the story of how we went to meet Dolce & Gabbana, how we instigated that."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- DGDavid Gandy
That wasn't luck.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah.
- DGDavid Gandy
It was strategy. And it was not my... I think at the time everyone's going, "You are Armani, you are Ralph Lauren. You are Armani, you are Ralph Lauren." It was Tandy Anson who said, "You are Dolce & Gabbana. You are Dolce & Gabbana. Don't listen to anyone else. You are Dolce." And it was her genius that said and then, then sort of instigated this meeting with them. And then through that, and, and working with Tandy and working with Select, everything we've achieved is strategy, you know.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
It's, it's, it's gone out. It's like think what do you want to achieve? What do you want to... You know, what, what's your goal? And it just, it doesn't just happen. Yes, there's certain opportunities that come around that people approach you.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
But we approach a lot of people with ideas, and we approach other people, "We would love to do this."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- DGDavid Gandy
You know, M&S, it was us who wanted to do that collaboration.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
And I wanted to do it with one of the biggest British institutions that everyone knows and everyone has a great thing, but I wanted to do it with M&S. We had lots of different brands approach us.
- 10:19 – 13:31
How did your world change after you blew up
- SBSteven Bartlett
that for you and the trajectory of your career? In like real terms.
- DGDavid Gandy
Light blue is the reason I'm here, and I'm, you know, the, the famous commercial. But again, you could look back to that, that when I came into modeling, uh, the circle of the fashion world at that stage of what was b- seen as fashionable was the small, androgynous, skinny guy.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
Now, I'm over six foot two. I was quite skinny when I came in, but I'd built up, and I just got bigger. And everyone else said, "You need to get smaller. You need to fit in. You need to... You're too big. You're getting too big." That's where I was happiest. I wasn't doing it for everything, you know. I was always playing sport. I wanted to continue. I couldn't play sport anymore, so I was in the gym. And it was, you know, to have a good physique and be healthy was the way I was happiest, in my head, in my wellbeing. So that's what I did. And I, and in a way, I just looked at the models and Titan Beckwess and Titan Ballou and Paul Scofa and all these different people that were, you know, the Levi's guys.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
You know, the famous Levi's ads that we used to, used to look at them. The Ralph Lauren guys. I was like, they're all big, muscular, classically handsome guys, and they were the biggest in the industry. So I just thought, "This has got to come round at one point." So when it actually came round to that creative for light blue, of course, there was a smaller pot 'cause everyone had followed each other.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- DGDavid Gandy
And then there was me. And we'd just done the campaign with Dolce & Gabbana, and then we went to do, and do light blue. But that, the day it came out, um, it just changed everything. I mean, literally changed everything. And I hate when people say that one. But it, it was, went from that campaign going out in the afternoon, phone not stopping, and I think I went to New York, and my agency just called up and just said, "We've got Telegraph, The Times, The Mirror. They all want to speak to you. They all want to have an interview with you."And we didn't have PRs at that point.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
You know, this was... I was like, "Okay."
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- DGDavid Gandy
"How does this work?"
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. (laughs)
- DGDavid Gandy
Um, very green about it all, but exciting. Yeah, so that, so that, so that, that changed.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Um, so, uh, you're talking there about lifestyle. How-
- DGDavid Gandy
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... did your lifestyle change? And I want to know about, like, how people treated you, and friends, and you know, romantic potential partners. When that, that blows up for you, the phone doesn't stop ringing-
- DGDavid Gandy
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... how does your world shift from a, like a very personal perspective?
- DGDavid Gandy
Friends have never changed. They're great. And we're still, you know, on, all on WhatsApp groups and see each other. I don't see them as much. They all live closer together and, and that's a shame really. But it's just never changed. I get the absolute-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Roasting. (laughs)
- DGDavid Gandy
... roasting all the time. I'm just an easy target.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Yeah.
- DGDavid Gandy
So you can just Google my name-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- DGDavid Gandy
... and there are so many pictures that keep appearing online. Okay, I can't really say much of that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) ?
- DGDavid Gandy
(laughs) So, but, and that's it. You know, it keeps you... And I love that. No one takes themselves too seriously. And I think hopefully that's what I didn't do too much is, and I always said to people, if models ever come up to me now and say, "What made you different?" Or, "How did... What did you learn?" I said, "I never believed my own hype." It's very easy once you see yourself in articles and winning awards and everyone's telling you how amazing you are, to, to believe that. But I, I suppose I never really did.
- 13:31 – 17:16
Impostor syndrome
- DGDavid Gandy
Um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you have imposter syndrome?
- DGDavid Gandy
Yes. Yeah, yeah, of course. Absolutely.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And what does that mean in practical terms in your mind, in your thoughts?
- DGDavid Gandy
You're always waiting to be found out, I think, at the end of the day. Always waiting for, you know, someone to go, "Okay." Like, "Come on." If you've had a really good inning. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Even 15 years in-
- DGDavid Gandy
But, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... do you still think ?
- DGDavid Gandy
Well, 20, 20 years in.
- SBSteven Bartlett
20 years.
- DGDavid Gandy
When you've had a good innings. You know, I'm, I'm still thinking that today to be found out. B- you do that by putting yourself at risk at something as well. Like, I suppose there's, there is the risk and reward. So everything I do, there has to be a slight risk. Otherwise, it's not sort of worth, I suppose me, me doing it. So there's always got to be that risk of failure in many ways. And I don't mind failure. I've learned more from failure than I have from success, to be honest. And that risk element of, you know, if Vanity Fair asking me to write an article. I mean, I'm not a writer. To do that is scary. And I won't have anyone write it for me. I have to do it. We're going back to the integrity thing.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
I have to do it. That goes for sort of the fashion game to collaborating with brands, to investing, you know. As you know, it's, you know, it's a risk. There is an element of risk I take into, I suppose, everything.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
And I suppose it makes life exciting.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What do you think, when you say, "Be found out," what's gonna be found out? What's that imposter voice saying is gonna be found out?
- DGDavid Gandy
Good question. I suppose, have you bitten off too much than you can chew? But no one can be as, as, uh, harsh a critic to me as I am myself.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
I will beat myself up in something failures. I will beat myself up if I don't do the best job. Um, so no one can affect me like that by actually saying anything, because I'm my worst critic.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
So yeah, that's a actually good point of what someone, you know, what that voice is going to say to me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Just a whisper of doubt, I guess. That maybe... Well, the way that I typically think about imposter syndrome, or at least I've seen it in my business, I, there's a couple of, like, top level of execs in my business that talk about imposter syndrome a lot. And it sounds like, um, yeah, exactly what you described there, like biting off more than you can chew, and are you really capable and experienced enough to be at this level doing this thing?
- DGDavid Gandy
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you, do you really have the skills?
- DGDavid Gandy
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
There's other people that are smarter and better and that have, you know, you know-
- DGDavid Gandy
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... won more awards or are more, you know, experienced.
- DGDavid Gandy
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Something like that.
- 17:16 – 20:22
Criticism and internet trolling
- SBSteven Bartlett
With female models-
- DGDavid Gandy
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... I think we can all quite easily believe how nasty comments would affect them.
- DGDavid Gandy
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
But there's something in, in, I think, the public perception or within society where we think, "Oh, if you slag off a male model, if you criticize them, say nasty things about them, eh, they'll be fine." If you go on Twitter, for example-
- DGDavid Gandy
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... it's totally okay just, uh, people will tweet at Piers Morgan all day saying, "You're a fat blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." But the people would never do that to, to... Well, they would, but it would be much... It would be considered much differently-
- DGDavid Gandy
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... if they were saying that to a woman. I believe that to be true. So I guess my ultimate question here ultimately is like, have st- strangers criticizing, saying nasty things on the internet about you, how you look or whatever, has that ever had a impact on you?
- DGDavid Gandy
In this business anyway, if you haven't got a thick skin, you shouldn't be in this game. You've got to have a thick skin. And it's... What I understood, and I've probably only actually understood this from having to cast myself for people to represent my brand, is that...You're not being horrible to someone, someone doesn't fit what you have perceived in your head. And that could be for any reason whatsoever. Um, the attitude you bring into it, the charisma you come into that day on that casting, the way you look. And it could be anything.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
That person's too skinny, that person's too tall, that person's not big enou- you know, anything. And you have to realize that when you were casting, is they weren't, it wasn't personal. It was almost business. "No, you just don't fit the creator that we want at the moment." That changes when you have a name, that changes when you have a brand, because they're buying into your brand. They're buying into your engagement-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
... or your fans. That's different. But when they first look at you at face value... And there's different people, you know. There's, there have been castings where they're on the phone, they don't say anything to you, you put the book down, they go through two pages and they hand it back to you.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- DGDavid Gandy
Now, that is a bit demoralizing. But hey, you know, like I've always made sure... And I probably overcompensated that because I've been on the other side of, you know, casting, casting other people-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
... whereas I probably kept there for too long and just chatted and-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
... everything else. So-
- SBSteven Bartlett
What about internet trolls though? Like someone on Instagram or in your DMs just, you post something and they just, "Wah." No?
- DGDavid Gandy
I'm very for- I'm very fortunate that my fan base, which is a very organic fan base actually, on, on social, are massively kind and positive. And that's the way I've always pushed social. I'm not a big lover of social media.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
Um, I've stated it before. I see the uses of it, I see the brilliance of it. I also see the negativity from it, especially for young children. I've spoken out about that. Um, yes. Does, do things affect... Yeah, of course. You probably know this, is that you might see 100 comments all positive, and then 101 comment, 102 comment is negative, and you'll remember it. You'll remember those two comments.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- DGDavid Gandy
It's like you can't remember the other 100 that are positive, and it's a really weird thing. So it's a bit like dealing with people. You deal with the nice ones, you don't deal with the negativity.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. (laughs)
- DGDavid Gandy
And that's what we've tried to do, really.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And, again, another
- 20:22 – 25:28
Insecurities
- SBSteven Bartlett
sort of social, I guess, um, not s- maybe stereotype, but sort of misunderstanding would be that someone that is, you know, makes their career out of modeling-
- DGDavid Gandy
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... someone that's very, you know, um, attractive, um, like yourself, um, surely they can't have insecurities. Surely they realize that they are, you know... Surely they can't have self-doubts like us muggles who had, GQ are yet to call. (laughs)
- DGDavid Gandy
(laughs) Doesn't everyone have insecurities? I can't believe that-
- SBSteven Bartlett
You tell me.
- DGDavid Gandy
... there's not a person that doesn't have insecurities.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you have insecurities?
- DGDavid Gandy
Yeah, of course I do. Absolutely. It's why I always
- NANarrator
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Physical insecurities?
- DGDavid Gandy
Mm-hmm. Of course I do. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Had you said something about your, if your nose and your, (laughs) your nose and-
- DGDavid Gandy
If my nose and my eyes got any bigger, or if my nose and my ears got any bigger, which they do, they're the only things that came, like I'd just look like the BFG soon.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- DGDavid Gandy
Also, I think something that, going back to the, the sort of trolling and Instagram that is this thing about age now. Age is used as a weapon. "You're so old. Look at all your wrinkles." It actually sort of makes me laugh when people say, "My God, you..." Like, most people have positive comments but they can say, "Oh, you're getting older." Yeah. Everyone is. I've been in this game for 20 years. If you're comparing an image from 20 years ago, I'm not gonna look the same. But it's almost like it's a negative thing.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
You know, it's... And that, that's... I've, I've noticed that increasing over the last couple of years, is this age thing is used as a weapon, as if it's a bad thing.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Does that bother you?
- DGDavid Gandy
No. I always feel I've always been quite an old man in a young, young man's body anyway.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
So, uh, (clears throat) or should I say mature?
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- DGDavid Gandy
But, um, no. You grow old-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
... at the end of the day. You grow a little bit wiser, you grow a little bit, you, you calm down a little bit more.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
And you, you, you accept yourself for who you are a little bit more as well. 20s and 30s, 30s less, but 20s can be quite tricky for everyone.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
You don't quite know who you are, and you're trying to be... Trying to find out where you are in the world. You then, I think, you get a bit more confidence in your 30. And I, that's where my 30 sort of came from, to, "Why are you trying to be something else, or trying to fit in?"
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- 25:28 – 39:08
Anxiety, not fitting in & being bullied
- SBSteven Bartlett
In the industry of modeling, one thing that I think is probably... I don't have any data to support this claim, but I think is probably rife because of the nature of the business and what I know about the subject of mental health and mental wellbeing, is anxiety.
- DGDavid Gandy
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And I, I just, I've just seen amongst my friends, um, uh, the women that I know that model, high levels of anxiety, um, for a variety of reasons. Um, have you ever suffered with anxiety yourself at any point in your career?
- DGDavid Gandy
I'm naturally a shier person, but shyness is not anxiety.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm.
- DGDavid Gandy
So I can't say, I mean, if I probably gave someone symptoms of stuff I've had or things I've had, then they might say, "Well, that's anxiety."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
My anxiety, if I still think of, now there's, there's a weird thing of when I hear the music to the Antiques Road Show on a Sunday night, I still have anxiety that I haven't done my homework and I have to go to school the next day.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- DGDavid Gandy
That's how much I hated... Didn't hate, I hated school up to a certain point. Sixth form was great with my friends that I still have. But that was the point of I still have that today.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- DGDavid Gandy
When I hear that music, I literally stop and I'm like, "Oh," you know, "Oh, I don't have to go to school tomorrow." Which was the weirdest thing.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why, what was so bad about school?
- DGDavid Gandy
I mean, I was, I didn't fit in at school. Th- that was basically it. It wasn't, you know, all good friends from that school, but it was just a certain time before I kind of met those people, um, the group of guys I call and girls I used to, you know, sort of hung around with. And there was bullying and there was... I just didn't fit in, that was all it was.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Bully- so you were bullied in s- in school, primary school or secondary school?
- DGDavid Gandy
Secondary school, yeah. But no, primary was, primary was quite fun. Enjoyed primary school. Secondary school was just something different. Maybe went to the wrong school. Maybe made the wrong choices. Don't know. It was me, it wasn't... I'm not blaming anyone. Not blaming anything. It was just that I was quite steadfast on not fitting in. I didn't fit in particularly well, and I wasn't gonna change my way of fitting in to everyone else.
- SBSteven Bartlett
In what way didn't you fit in?
- DGDavid Gandy
I'd, I just... A bit like the same now. I'm still like it. I'm still... In the fashion industry, that example of not being in that group, not, not being in that pack, not doing the same thing everyone does is actually the same thing. I didn't want to be in that. I saw things differently and wanted to do things my way. Maybe that's it. I mean, at the end of the day, may- maybe it was doing something my way. And, and I've always looked at that. That go- that goes on for... That can, that can go into, if you look, it can go into styling. It's like, "Well, no one's wearing suits. I'm not gonna wear suits then."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
"Well, no one's, you know, why don't you do this?" It's like, you know, people still take the mick out of me 'cause I do not own a pair of sneakers or trainers.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
And the people like now, everyone, that's all they're wearing.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
I have one pair and I go to the gym in them, and I have a running pair. But... And everyone sort of looks at you as if... But I love that fact, you know, it's just me being a little bit different.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
But it, it can also lead to s- you know, being a bit, a little bit stubborn that you take that to a little bit far of not ever relinquishing that. You want to be sort of different like all the time. You want to... I don't know why you do it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Was that physical bu- was that bullying because of physical things? They were, they were saying that you were physically different? Or was it like-
- DGDavid Gandy
Not physically different, no. No, no.
- SBSteven Bartlett
The way you thought?
- DGDavid Gandy
Maybe it was the way I thought, if you think about that now, yeah. It's just because in, in... I do find this still now in the world that everyone likes to pigeonhole. Everyone like to... You are put in a certain category personally, and if you don't fit in-
- 39:08 – 42:47
Mental health
- SBSteven Bartlett
of, um, mental health disorders then, um, you, you've... You know, you're a, an ambassador of a men's mental health charity.
- DGDavid Gandy
We're working with... Yeah, and we're also working with Calm and, um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, good.
- DGDavid Gandy
... a few others for, for the new brand, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, amazing. And, um, your new brand has a big sort of theme around men's wellness.
- DGDavid Gandy
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And, um, what does... What... I guess the question is why. Why did that matter to you? And, like, th- this is also why I asked the question around anxiety, because I was... For you to make it a kind of... Mental well-being, let's say, a central part, and mental wellness a w- a central part of your brand-
- DGDavid Gandy
Mm. Mm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... and your mission-
- DGDavid Gandy
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... um, one would assume that you've had, A, an experience with it close to home. Because I think that's one way that people typically generate a t- ton of empathy towards the subject matter, is feeling it, feeling the pain of it, whether within themselves or within loved ones.
- DGDavid Gandy
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So, what was it for you that made you care so much about that?
- DGDavid Gandy
I've never suffered from depression as... And I'm very fortunate that from... As, as badly as other people have. And I've witnessed it, because I've dated people that were then diagnosed with bipolar, and I've seen the extremities of mental, you know, mental health. Um, me, myself, and I admit it's, it's not happened for a while, would go into dark periods knowing I would snap out of it eventually. But they, they were dark, but nothing would... Nothing would suffice, nothing would cheer you up. Just quite in a dark place, wanting to be on my own, just not around anyone. Um, wasn't triggered by anything, but you just... One day, I just knew I'd wake up and it was gone. Just a chemical, a chemical reaction in your brain is basically what, what it is. And yeah, so I've... I, I do understand, and I can spot it in other people as well.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What, what were the symptoms of it for you, those dark periods?
- DGDavid Gandy
The symptoms, as I, as I, as I said, was, was just nothing would make you... You, you couldn't snap out of it. It was... Nothing could make you happy or cheerful. You... Well, you didn't like anyone. You didn't want to b- uh, be around anyone. Um, it's hard to... Uh, th- the feelings are hard to explain. And it was... You know, it never got to any point of seriousness. I mean, I've seen people with bipolar that will be in a room for hours on end, for days on end, watching the same TV series 'cause that... Their safety is watching that TV series. It makes them a little bit happy, you know, because of just that safety for some reason. So I've seen, I've seen the, the real dark side of it. And I've also, from me dating someone like that, of how hard it is to deal with it, because you always want to try and make that person better-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
... and you can't, uh, in, in many, many ways. It's... You can talk, and you have to be... You know, it, it... And it's about just being patient and listening to people and trying to get them, you know, help-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
... professional help. There is an element where you... You know, uh, I can only talk about certain things at that point, and then it comes to an expert help that, that they have to talk. And that's what Calm does, you know. It's, it's, it's allowing people to talk to people. Um, and there are people that are far better. You know, people need to listen to people. That's, that's the point of it. I think there's a lot of people who, even if they are talking to people, they're not listening.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
Fortunately, it's never been that bad.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm.
- DGDavid Gandy
But, uh, I do understand it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you sleep well?
- DGDavid Gandy
No.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I heard you hadn't slept well for
- 42:47 – 46:12
Are you at your happiest working?
- SBSteven Bartlett
almost two decades.
- DGDavid Gandy
No, never slept well. I didn't sleep when I was a child.But I did, it was the other way around. Went to bed early, got up, you know, went to bed, go to bed early. And then my parents just left me be in the end. I think they were just so sick of trying to get me to go to bed 'cause I just didn't sleep. And I would be doing my homework at midnight, it's one o'clock in the morning. And I still work now. I was up till two o'clock in the morning working last night. And that, that's another thing when people go, it's about grafting or hard work. Most people are sitting, a lot of people are sitting down at half past eight, nine o'clock in front of a TV, ready to go to bed. Half past eight, I'm going to the gym. Get back at half past nine. Do the shopping on the way home.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
Cook myself some dinner. Go. Doesn't stop. In between is working on the phone, carrying on. Then, then I'll, you know, half past ten, I'll open the laptop and get on with some more work.
- SBSteven Bartlett
If you're always grafting, as you call it, and it's, and you said it doesn't stop, how does one become happy if they're always striving, if they're always in the future? Uh, like-
- DGDavid Gandy
It stopped during the pandemic.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You... So you, sorry?
- DGDavid Gandy
It did stop during the pandemic.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, you did?
- DGDavid Gandy
During the lockdown.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- DGDavid Gandy
Yeah. You couldn't. My, my, half the business is, my business, the modeling, is traveling pretty much at the end of the day.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
You have to be in locations. That stopped.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And did that make you happier?
- DGDavid Gandy
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It made you happier when it all stopped?
- DGDavid Gandy
Too financial, you know, it, it affected me financially.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- DGDavid Gandy
And we'd already been affected quite heavily in this industry by, um, say, the Brexit as, you know, the blame of Brexit now, it was the uncertainty of Brexit. So a lot of brands were not spending money, not marketing money, not having, not having budgets, not working with the UK, all these different things. Also uncertainly in brands with social media now of old school campaigns versus digital, which still hasn't quite fizzled out yet. They, they, they, brands don't quite know where they are within the marketing world on how to, how to market to people, how to target people. So it's been affected by it. And, you know, that all kind of Brexit got signed January, whole different world. It was sort of that December, January of, what, 2020, I was off to Milan, I was then going to Spain, I was then going to Greece, I was then going to New York, I was then back to Mi- I had the schedule like it used to be. Going off out to Russia, I'd never been to Russia. I was really excited about. I was going to Russia for the first time. Then the pandemic hit. Everything got canceled.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And you're saying you were happier during the pandemic?
- DGDavid Gandy
Probably shouldn't have been. Yes, I'm unfortunate. I'm very, very fortunate at the fact is that yes, it affected me financially.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm. But it slowed you down.
- DGDavid Gandy
But I've invested well and I've, you know, it, it, it, there's reserves to-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- DGDavid Gandy
... point this out. But, um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Nice car collection. Yeah. (laughs) Which I wouldn't.
- DGDavid Gandy
Exactly. That's an expensive habit, to be honest.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Yeah.
- DGDavid Gandy
Um, there's a time probably the only time I actually probably truly switch off and there's a week between Christmas and New Year.
- 46:12 – 49:43
Are you happy?
- SBSteven Bartlett
nagging to be doing something or doing more or to be striving? How can... That sounds like the, the thief of happiness to me.
- DGDavid Gandy
The thief of happiness. That's a good one. It should be a book.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) It probably is.
- DGDavid Gandy
Um, listen, I, I haven't got the answer to that. It's-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Are you... Would you consider yourself to be a happy person?
- DGDavid Gandy
A positive person.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why did you avoid the word happiness?
- DGDavid Gandy
I don't know, if I'm totally honest. That's something you probably have to ask a, ask a psychiatrist. I don't know. A happy person. I'm a positive person, and I suppose I am a happy person in many ways. Yes, that's right. But I, I tell you, it's just a definition of what's positive, what's happy. Is it all the same thing? So-
- SBSteven Bartlett
You said in many ways. In what ways do you think you, you might not be a happy person?
- DGDavid Gandy
Again, good question. I, I mean, I am. I'm happy. I put myself... Listen, when I'm in control of what I do now.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
That's why I always wanted it. Maybe I'm a control freak. I don't know. The hard work that's where we've got to has allowed me now to, to be in complete control of what my destiny of what I want to do. If I want to... Renovating interior is a huge passion. Love doing it. Looks like a nightmare hard work to for other people, but I strive on it. Renovating classic cars, the same thing. It's... And as I, you know, said to you earlier, you're halfway through you think, "Why am I doing this? Why didn't I just buy a new car or, you know, a new build?" And, but, and then you got over it. But I, but I, the accomplishment is worth it to me, you know, that sense of achievement. That's what I'm striving for.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Does that ever feel as good though?
- DGDavid Gandy
Hmm?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Does that ever feel as good when you get there?
- DGDavid Gandy
Yeah, it does. Not for that long, but it does.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How long?
- DGDavid Gandy
I can tick those.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Couple of... (laughs)
- DGDavid Gandy
Couple of days.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Couple of minutes. (laughs)
- DGDavid Gandy
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Four seconds. (laughs)
- DGDavid Gandy
Yeah. It's, it's the same feeling as, you know, when we, if we go and shoot Light Blue or something else. And you have to work hard f- you know, in the gym to get. I'm always in pretty decent shape, but that's hard work to get in that shape. And it's getting harder the older I get. Um, and y- you dedicate a lot and you sacrifice a lot to look like that. And then there is that point of, we've shot it, we've seen some of the picture, it looks incredible. You achieved it. And there is this evening of enjoying that. It's then onto the next thing, you know. It's, what are we working on? Not next, but you know, one of the other projects that I'm working on at the time.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you... Have you found that in your career-... dark episodes where you're, where you feel down sometimes follow high episodes. Because there's this really fascinating thing that I was reading about, about gold medal depression, where-
- DGDavid Gandy
Hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... up to 80% of, um, Olympians, regardless of outcome, regardless of whether they win or they don't-
- DGDavid Gandy
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... come back from the Olympics after training, all of that excruciating effort-
- DGDavid Gandy
Mm-hmm.
- 49:43 – 59:46
Starting a brand
- SBSteven Bartlett
That whole inspiration, the journey. Why?
- DGDavid Gandy
Why the brand?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- DGDavid Gandy
Because it was what I've wanted to achieve for so long, is have that... To me, to have your own brand. And I didn't know what it was going to be. I am a brand, you know, that's... I say that and it's, makes me sound like a bit of a dick.
- SBSteven Bartlett
No, but you are. Yeah.
- DGDavid Gandy
But it is a brand. And that's what people have to realize, you know, when I say ..........................
- SBSteven Bartlett
I am as well. (laughs)
- DGDavid Gandy
... that, that... And then I would probably say it's ten years I've, I've thought, "Yes, that's where one day I would like to..." I'm not saying I'm always gonna achieve it. But yes, from the creative side to being in control of that brand. As I'm always in control from, by other brands. Even if I'm collaborating with a brand, there is still an element of control that that brand has. And I always thought, "Yeah, to be in complete control, complete creative control." And that's a risk. I never wanted people to think because I have a name, because I've been in the fashion industry for so long, I could start a brand. Now people do now. You know, they use... Social media's one of the, one of those elements, is you can start something, you can sell it immediately. You've got fans, followers, buyers. It's made the marketplace a very different place. So I went back to really what I did for modeling. Observation, putting myself in the situation where I could learn, and that was M&S.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
The collaboration with M&S. We saw the David Gandy loungewear. No one was doing loungewear. This was, this is... What are we talking about? The concept? It was about six, seven, seven a half years ago? Seven years ago. Lounge, loungewear wasn't a big concept then. It wasn't a, it wasn't something that people thought about. Um, and of course we did sleepwear and T-shirts and everything else, but it was loungewear that really took off and became the third biggest loungewear in the country and was successful. And it had a l- you know, 60% of me in that brand, as in what I wanted to achieve on that brand. But of course you couldn't get that last 40% because that was M&S and I knew where I wanted to go and I knew what needed to be done, but I couldn't push it any further than I sort of could. So that ended, and then the pandemic hit, and, and lockdown. And one of my greatest friends, Charlie T, who has listened to me talk far too long about wanting to start my own thing, and he started his own branding agency, uh, to do exactly what I wanted. And he said, "Well listen, I've started this now. You can be our first client, but we're not talking about this anymore. We've got the time." I've, I've... You know, as, as my best friend, he knows I'm, I'm never really around. He says, "I've got you here." We worked together, you know, "I've got you in the country, we've got time. Let's start it."
- SBSteven Bartlett
What's your long-term vision then for WellWear? What's the-
- DGDavid Gandy
We-
- SBSteven Bartlett
... what's the long term? What's it gonna become five, ten years from now?
- DGDavid Gandy
I never really tell people where I've got it in my head where something is going, hopefully going to be. And there are small steps to, you know, to where... We haven't even, you know, properly launched, you know. Yeah, the, the first shipping goes out on 22nd of October. Um, but we wanted to do something different with WellWear. We wanted to... To, to the essence of me, it was understanding, and we're calling it sort of WellWear, wellbeing, why clothing, why does some clothing make you feel positive and confident?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
Why does some not?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
And we looked at, we... There's studies done by Amsterdam University and I think it was the scientific, you know, element of, if we put students in comfortable, confident clothing, they're confident, that's comfortable and soft, their results are better than other people who are in uncomfortable clothing and they don't feel as confident or... In fact going in the same with business, it was now why the banks, big banks are saying, "You don't have to wear suits anymore." Because actually a lot of people are more positive, they're a lot more open to work with, they're a lot calmer. It's oxytocin. It's the same thing as feeling the ridiculously, you know, soft pillow or puppy, that softness.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
That soft jumper come... You know, that, that thing you hold onto is oxytocin, it's released into your brain.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
It's a positive, positive mood. And that's what we wanted to do with... And I, and we looked into this, and you know, there was a side to me that was fascinated by the element of it. But I've always wondered, you know, why do I, why do I hold onto that pair of jeans until my ass is falling out the end of it?
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- DGDavid Gandy
And I would try and find that pair again when I can't find that pair. And why am I wearing those sweatshirts? Because, well, it was, one, for comfort. And that is an element of lots of things. The materials, um, the breathability, the style. You still gotta look stylish and that-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
... it makes you feel confident. The fit. That's why, at the end of the day, that's why it was never to me about being trendy. It was being confident. And so many guys say to me, " ... Wellwear Breathe, Wellwear Care. We've, you know, we've sort of put these elements into, um, they're washed into the clothing. There's aloe vera, so pajamas are moisturizing you whilst you sleep. Anti-inflammatory, we've got Wellwear Breathe and, you know, sort of antibacterial elements of it, which is another element of if w- if we were looking at fast fashion. And fast fashion can be an addiction. And people don't realize this addiction that you get a buzz from shopping, but actually you can be hugely affected knowing the impact of fast fashion on the environment. Actually, when that clothing lasts a week-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- DGDavid Gandy
... two weeks. I mean, I'm exaggerating.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- DGDavid Gandy
It lasts, you know-
Episode duration: 59:46
Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript
Transcript of episode 5rOHOGA4oME
Get more out of YouTube videos.
High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.
Add to Chrome