David Moyes Reveals The Truth About Man United, West Ham & His Future | E213

1. 0:00 – 1:59

   Intro

   1. DMDavid Moyes0:00

      They would be out screaming at you at halftime. They'd be screaming at you at the end of the game. (whistle blowing) Come on, go!

   2. SBSteven Bartlett0:07

      What's the toll of that?

   3. DMDavid Moyes0:10

      (inhales and exhales deeply)

   4. SBSteven Bartlett0:13

      David "the Messiah" Moyes.

   5. DMDavid Moyes0:15

      One of the best known football managers across the globe. Building teams with a clear identity. So where am I looking and who am I talking to? I was desperate to be successful as a manager and I had 11 years at Everton where we were finding it really difficult to break into the top four. The phone rang and it was Sir Alex (phone thuds on desk) , and he said, "I'm retiring (camera clicks) and you're the next manager of Manchester United." No interview. Not saying, "Would you like to be?" And I met Ed Woodward the next day, back to his house again and we met the Glazers. It was three days. And that was as simple as that. To get that offer from the greatest manager maybe there ever was was a great compliment. But maybe if I'd really looked into it in more detail and more depth, there was a huge change going to have to take place. I trusted Manchester United.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett0:56

      Do you feel like that trust was let down?

   7. DMDavid Moyes0:59

      Definitely. But my biggest regret was... (camera clicking)

   8. SBSteven Bartlett1:01

      We start with the story that has dominated the front pages, the sacking of David Moyes. (camera clicking) How did you find out that you were losing your job?

   9. DMDavid Moyes1:08

      Media.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett1:09

       Oh, really?

   11. DMDavid Moyes1:10

       If you've got any class or any style, you have to give bad news well. (camera clicking)

   12. SBSteven Bartlett1:16

       What are those steps forward to get West Ham competing at the very top of the table?

   13. DMDavid Moyes1:19

       I want to build a new West Ham. (hammer thuds) A lot of supporters might not like the thought of that.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett1:23

       When you look at where West Ham is now, do you worry about losing your job?

   15. DMDavid Moyes1:27

       I've gotta say... (text thuds)

   16. SBSteven Bartlett1:31

       Before this episode starts, I have a small favor to ask from you. Two months ago, 74% of people that watch this channel didn't subscribe. We're now down to 69%. My goal is 50%. So if you've ever liked any of the videos we've posted, if you like this channel, can you do me a quick favor and hit the subscribe button? It helps this channel more than you know. And the bigger the channel gets, as you've seen, the bigger the guests get. Thank you, and enjoy this episode.

2. 1:59 – 9:51

   Early context

   1. SBSteven Bartlett2:00

      (upbeat music) David, take me back to the context that I need to understand in order to understand you. Take me back to Glasgow-

   2. DMDavid Moyes2:10

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett2:11

      ... 1960s.

   4. DMDavid Moyes2:12

      Yes. I was in a really good family, who were really important. And you'll probably hear me talking a lot about it now but, uh, we were a, uh, a family who we stayed in the, the West End of Glasgow in a tenement building. And, uh, we used to have to, you know, go up the, up the tenement. And if people who don't know what a tenement is, a tenement is a, you know, what we would probably think a bo- block of flats. And you go up the tenement. And they were never in Glasgow that, at that time, very, very, uh, good to look at. People looked down on them a little bit. But, uh, it was a great upbringing for me that allowed me to play my football out on the street, which at that time was, was something which everybody considered, you know, street footballers. Everybody played football on the street. And everybody in Glasgow did play football on the street, played in the park. So I started in Glasgow in the West End and that was probably where me and my family, uh, grew up.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett3:06

      Your father's also called David.

   6. DMDavid Moyes3:08

      He certainly is, yeah.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett3:10

      What did he do for a living and how did that influence you?

   8. DMDavid Moyes3:13

      Well, uh, well, this is probably ... It's, it's a really good question to me, uh, for, for me, is because my dad actually was a teacher, but he worked in the shipyards in, in Glasgow which was really important. So he worked in the, as a ship builder and then he went on to become a teacher in a college. But meanwhile, what he'd done in, in his part of his other job was that he was a, uh, an amateur football manager. And there was a very famous boys' club team in Glasgow called Drumchapel Amateurs, which was very famous. And really is, uh, all my memories come with my dad running one of the teams at Drumchapel Amateurs. Now, for the people who don't know, you know, there's people like, uh, Sir Alex Ferguson played for Drumchapel Amateurs. There was people like, uh, Asa Hartford played for Drumchapel Amateurs. John Watt was a Scottish international. So it was a very, very famous boys' club. Uh, my dad also ran, uh, the college where he teached. My dad was a, a teacher at Anniesland College, which was a college in Glasgow. And he, uh, he took the team every Saturday morning, and then he took the amateur football team every Saturday afternoon. You got to remember, this was all ... Well, there was no, no money involved in this. So really, part of my life was seeing my dad grow up as a football manager for amateurs, uh, but meanwhile his real job was that he was a teacher at, at Anniesland College.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett4:34

      Did that make you want to pursue that as a career at that time, or, or what, what kind of influence d- has that had on you in hindsight?

   10. DMDavid Moyes4:41

       Well, I think when I look back now I'd say to, say to ... I think your parents have huged in- huge influence in everything you do, for different reasons. Mine definitely did, but I don't think when you're growing up as a boy you're thinking that, you know, "Oh, I'm gonna be influenced too much by my dad or my mum." You don't think that 'til you get a bit older yourself. And when you look back you go, "Wow, I can't believe that I'm quite similar to my dad," or, "I can't believe that I followed my mum." And going back to that, you know, my mum was part of it as well. My mum had to wash the strips and hang them up outside, and, you know, and then she'd have to wash them and I ... She'd wash them and iron them and I'd be folding them and putting them away. So probably from a, a really young boy, I was watching my dad and my mum, (clicks tongue) uh, help, help young, young boys at that time, you know, fulfill, go for a game of football. Hopefully they were all hoping to go on to become professional footballers, but if not, try and be successful playing for, for the boys' team in Glasgow at that time.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett5:36

       One of the things we, we do tend to pick up from our parents, from what I've seen and I certainly did myself, was I, I guess, like, principles and values of, like, how to approach life and how to deal with life.

   12. DMDavid Moyes5:47

       Mm-hmm.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett5:48

       Um, what were those principles and values that your parents imparted on you, directly or indirectly from observation, about life and how to deal with it and how to confront it?

   14. DMDavid Moyes5:59

       Well, I think your parents will always influence you in some way. Uh-I was sent to church when I was, was, when I was younger.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett6:07

       Okay.

   16. DMDavid Moyes6:07

       So I went to church. A lot of people were. And I think that probably had an influence as well in its own way in the, in the early days. But I think more to do with schooling. Uh, more to do with, uh, education and, and what they, they tried to do. And to be fair, none of them... I was never pushed on anything. I was never pushed to, you know, to be that well-educated. I was never pushed out to be a great football player. They were just encouraging, really, and always there to support. So I had parents who really let me grow up the way, the way I chose to do so. But everything was guided by them. You know, respect, uh, you know, trust, you know, trying to be truthful all the time. All those things, I think, come into a, a good relationship.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett6:51

       Did you ever have a... You kind of suggested there that they weren't necessarily like pushy parents necessarily-

   18. DMDavid Moyes6:55

       Mm-hmm.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett6:55

       ... but did you ever have any idea of what career or aspiration would make them proud? If I'd asked you, you know, "What does your mum or dad want you to be when you're older-"

   20. DMDavid Moyes7:06

       Yeah.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett7:06

       ... when you were younger, what would you have said?

   22. DMDavid Moyes7:07

       Uh, I, I think my dad would've definitely said, "I hope you're a footballer."

   23. SBSteven Bartlett7:11

       (laughs)

   24. DMDavid Moyes7:12

       You know? I think that would... I think my dad would've always probably thought that. He, he had a great love of football as well. But I think they were, they were always really supportive in a- i- in anything I wanted to do. But I think, you know, as I got, as I got on and I got to an age where I was starting to get close to, you know, I'm 12 or 13, I think football was probably my, my biggest sort of love and what I wanted to do. And I was more interested in either watching football, playing football. And, uh, and that was probably, they probably saw that round about that age as well.

   25. SBSteven Bartlett7:43

       And, uh, is it sort of 12, 12 years old, you were in Celtic's youth system?

   26. DMDavid Moyes7:48

       Yeah. It was... What it was is at that time, Celtic, Celtic had a boys' club.

   27. SBSteven Bartlett7:52

       Mm-hmm.

   28. DMDavid Moyes7:52

       And you have to remember, my dad also, as I said, ran a, a, a very, very famous boys' team, or one of the teams in, in Glasgow in Drumchapel Amateurs. So... But I went to Celtic Boys Club. Uh, and I played with Celtic Boys Club from when I was about 12 to 16 till I went on. But they were, they were brilliant years I had there. You know, the... My time at Celtic, uh, which, uh, you know, came after as a, as a player and a, and as a, you know, a, a senior professional. Not a senior professional, but a professional, I should say. But the young, the young period when I was at Celtic Boys Club was... I can only remember being, winning things and being really successful and, you know, representing, you know, Glasgow schools as a schoolboy. I was representing Scotland school, schools as a schoolboy international. So I had really, really, uh, good days in the early days, probably from 14, 15 onwards.

   29. SBSteven Bartlett8:45

       Did you... If I'd asked you, even at that age. So say when you were 16, if I'd asked you about your ambitions in football, what would you have r- responded with?

   30. DMDavid Moyes8:55

       Uh, I, I, I hope that I might have been good enough to, to become a player. I'm not sure I would be. Uh, and I, I would love to be involved in football. And I always used to think that, you know, I'm hoping that maybe I could run an amateur team or I could be involved. I could maybe, might be good enough to take a junior team. You know, I might get paid a little bit of money. You know, maybe I, maybe I'd become a youth team coach for someday if, if, you know, if I wasn't gonna be a football player. Always thought even... At that time when we were growing up, there was lot, lots of youth clubs, you know? So we would go to a school youth club, you know, because it was where you would get a game of table tennis.
3. 9:51 – 12:13

   Skills from your dad as a manager

   1. DMDavid Moyes9:51

   2. SBSteven Bartlett9:51

      What did you learn from your dad as a manager? Is there anything even today where you think, "I, I think I've got that from my dad."

   3. DMDavid Moyes9:55

      Yeah.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett9:55

      Or that trait or that...

   5. DMDavid Moyes9:56

      Yeah.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett9:57

      Yeah.

   7. DMDavid Moyes9:58

      Planning.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett9:59

      Yeah.

   9. DMDavid Moyes10:00

      Organization. Commitment. And if I just... So planning. You know, at that time, there was no mobile phones then, so it was the, it was the phone. So he'd be phoning all the players to say, "Look, we're playing on Saturday. I want you to meet at 12:30. We're meeting..." wherever it was. And at that time, they all had to come, at times, with the same... with a shirt and tie on. They had to bring a bag. You know, they all had to come with the same bag, shirt and tie. You've got to remember, this is Glasgow in a time when, you know, people weren't... people had to turn up with collar and tie on. And if you didn't turn up with your collar and tie on, you might not get selected for the game. So small things like this, if you're talking about maybe disciplines or, or ways you were brought up, I think possibly, I picked up a lot of the traits probably early on.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett10:46

       Why does that matter? Why do the small things matter, shirt and tie?

   11. DMDavid Moyes10:50

       Um-

   12. SBSteven Bartlett10:51

       Do you think they matter, I guess, is another question.

   13. DMDavid Moyes10:52

       Yeah, I do. I think they really do matter. I think the... sometimes, I mean... And I have to say, in... if you, if you jumped on to this, my senior time, I think, I think they, they've always looked better. I think players... people have always looked better that they've, they dress well and they, they're correct, they look prepared for the games. I jump to Manchester United just quickly and say, you know, Manchester United had a rule, which Sir Alex had, that they would always turn up for away games in shirt and tie. Now, most teams would rather turn up in their tracksuit so the players can come more casual. But Manchester United always turned up, uh, with a shirt and tie on, which I thought was a great thing because they wanted to show what they were, wanted to come out there and say, "Look the way we dress. Look the way we approach it. You look at... This is Manchester United here." And I, I, I've got to say, I really admired, admired that part of it.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett11:40

       It's interesting. It's an interesting small psychological advantage, isn't it, to some degree if...

   15. DMDavid Moyes11:45

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett11:45

       I guess it's a statement of professionalism and attention to detail before the, before the ball's even kicked.

   17. DMDavid Moyes11:52

       It is. And, uh, you know, the... So th- uh, that takes me back. So you're saying is, you know, maybe Sir Alex, who played with Drumchapel Amateurs, maybe, maybe he'd picked it up from his time at Drumchapel Amateurs, you know, the, the way they, they, they, they had to turn up with shirt and ties on and they had a blazer on. And again, this was just an amateur football team in Glasgow.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett12:11

       You, you, um, you

4. 12:13 – 16:25

   What did you learn as a player?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett12:13

      played with many, many clubs over your almost-

   2. DMDavid Moyes12:14

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett12:16

      ... 600 career, um, games, a few- across a variety of different divisions. Um, that time working as a player across multiple clubs and multiple divisions, what did that teach you? I- I think it's always useful to get a variety of different experiences so that you can-

   4. DMDavid Moyes12:33

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett12:33

      ... kind of create your own perspective on, on the world. But what did that teach you, those 600 games, as a player? What are the fundamentals there?

   6. DMDavid Moyes12:40

      Uh, the fundamentals were, uh, I- I learnt so much. But my, uh, but my early days when I, when I started at Celtic was probably engraved in me more than anything because Celtic had an incredible tradition of winning, you know, winning. Now obviously, Celtic had to win with style as well. Celtic were, you know, the biggest club with Rangers in Glasgow, in, in Scotland, I should say. And, and because of that, Celtic had to, to win was always so important. So all... No, I could see there, there was the first team, there was the reserves, there was the, the youth team, and all the managers were under pressure to win. Then if you did win, then it was, "Well, what was the score?" "You won 1-0." "That's not good enough. You need to win, you need to win three or four nothing. You need to win by more goals." "And how did you play?" "Well, we didn't play that well. We scored an own goal. It was a scrappy..." "Not good enough. You have to win with style." So I think my early days, I was, I was brought up with brilliant footballers, people who showed me, I don't know if you want to call it a philosophy, because philosophy might be much deeper and might offer much more, but it gave me something where I had to say, "Well, I have to win. I have to find a way of winning." You know, if I can win with style, that's even better. But more importantly, I have to find a way of winning. And, uh, I picked that up probably from my early days at Celtic. And I wasn't there that long. Not that I wasn't there that long, but I wasn't there that long probably as a senior player. I moved on and ended up bobbing around the championship in a couple of lower leagues in England for a long time. But I come across some, some really great managers. Uh, I come a- come across some which weren't so good. But, you know, I always tried to res- be respectful to any of them because that, that came from, from my background and my, my upbringing. But I also was trying to pick up everything I could. And when I was 20, I had already qualified as a, as a full-time, full A license coach at the time. You know, to be a coach, you had to have an A license, it was called. Uh, now you have to have a pro license, but you have to... It was a, to them, it was an A license. I'd qualified as a coach when I was 20, 21, which was unusual. And the reason I'd done that was because the coaching courses were obviously full of really experienced managers, full of really, lots of players trying to get into management. The only reason I went and done it was hoping that I would become a better player. I thought that if I went on these coaching courses, it'll help me become even better as a player. And I had a, I had a, a really good career, but not quite at the elite level, which, uh, I really wanted to be.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett15:13

      Whose idea was that, to go and do a coaching course at 20 years old to improve yourself as a player?

   8. DMDavid Moyes15:17

      Uh, my own, because I thought that maybe I'd find out more about it. But I have to say, there was a thing when we were, we were young players. We were, uh, when we were 16 at Celtic, we were sent to the courses to help the coaches, so we were called the runners.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett15:33

      Mm-hmm.

   10. DMDavid Moyes15:33

       So we were down there to do all the running, you know. You had to do all the running. You had to be a fullback, you had to be a midfield player, and you... And all the practices were put on for the coaches. And, uh, you know, Scotland had great, great coaches at the time, you know, people, people like Sir Alex, Jim McLean, you know, Walter Smith, you know, I could go on and on. Scotland had brilliant coaches without naming the likes of Jock Stein and, you know, Bill Shankly, and, and mo-... You could go on and on, uh, George Graham, for example. So I, I was sent down by Celtic, and I was one of the runners for a couple years. And once I was down, I said, "Oh, I want more of this. I want to be around football people." I loved listening to them. I hoped that I would impress some of them who were, who were managers of, of really big clubs at the time. And that's when I thought, "Well, no, I'm going to go and do my badges myself," and went on to, went on to do them in Scotland.

5. 16:25 – 21:27

   What does a winning culture look like?

   1. DMDavid Moyes16:25

   2. SBSteven Bartlett16:25

      When... Your time at Celtic, um, in the first team, when you got signed there, it was three years, right, you were in Celtic?

   3. DMDavid Moyes16:31

      Yeah, yeah.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett16:32

      You then got to experience other cultures in clubs.

   5. DMDavid Moyes16:35

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett16:35

      But you, you cite Celtic as having that sort of winning mentality-

   7. DMDavid Moyes16:38

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett16:39

      ... that some clubs just have, where they're almost, you know-

   9. DMDavid Moyes16:41

      Yeah.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett16:41

       ... they just, they get used... They, like, develop the habit of winning.

   11. DMDavid Moyes16:45

       Mm-hmm.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett16:45

       Throughout your career, you've been in clubs that have the habit of winning, um, but also clubs that m- maybe have struggled in the opposite direction-

   13. DMDavid Moyes16:51

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett16:51

       ... and don't have that culture of, "We always win every game."

   15. DMDavid Moyes16:54

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett16:54

       When you think about the clubs you've worked in that have that habit of winning, like Celtic did-

   17. DMDavid Moyes16:58

       Mm-hmm.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett16:58

       ... what is that? How is... Where does that come from? And what, what, what does it look like and feel like?

   19. DMDavid Moyes17:05

       It, it looks like you walk in every morning with your chest out and your head high, and you're sort of confident in what you're doing. There's a, a motivation to keep it going, not to let it drop? There's a something about having to continue to improve to stay at the top, that you can't just do what you're doing, which is gonna keep you there forever. You have to keep trying to find a way of doing... So I, I did see that, and I feel that, and I've seen it at other clubs since. But I have to say, I think on the journey to probably where I am today is probably more that seeing a lot of the other side as well is actually the bit which... You know, I've been at clubs where I've been getting relegated. I've been at clubs where I can't win. I've been at clubs where, you know, it's not going well. I've been at clubs where there's... You know, it's, it's not been as powerful as, as, say, a club like Celtic. So I think, I think you have to see it all round for you to give yourself the best, the best chance. And I keep saying this, you know, to do... to get to become a football manager, I don't think there's any one plan. You could be the best player on the planet and not become a football manager.... you could be someone who's never played the game and become incredibly successful as a football manager. So, I don't think there's necessarily one way you do it.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett18:24

       I'm really in- intrigued by this, this idea of, like, cultures at, at clubs and within teams-

   21. DMDavid Moyes18:28

       Mm-hmm.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett18:28

       ... and how you can just feel it almost when, when a club has that momentum and they're a winning team and when they don't. Um, on the, on the country then, when we're thinking about teams that are struggling and that aren't performing well, um, what are the signs of that? Now, Rio said something really interesting. Was it Rio or was i- Gary ev- Gary Neville said something interesting to me. He said that when he was at o- um, Manchester United, Sir Alex Ferguson only came into the dressing, training ground dressing room twice. And he said he never needed to come in there because the culture was in there.

   23. DMDavid Moyes18:58

       Yeah.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett18:58

       So if, like, when Berbatov came over and wasn't fitting the culture, the players would correct him.

   25. DMDavid Moyes19:01

       Yeah.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett19:02

       He then says when he went to QPR, when the manager left the changing room, everyone was talking about their wages-

   27. DMDavid Moyes19:07

       Yeah.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett19:07

       ... and where they're going next.

   29. DMDavid Moyes19:09

       Mm-hmm.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett19:09

       You can f- you can feel that, like-
6. 21:27 – 26:00

   Affective management styles

   1. SBSteven Bartlett21:27

      that you've seen in the approach that is effective now. What is effective now? If, if, if once upon a time Scottish managers could come in and hairdryer it and scream-

   2. DMDavid Moyes21:37

      Yeah.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett21:37

      ... and whatever, whatever, how has the approach changed in your view?

   4. DMDavid Moyes21:40

      Well, let me tell you. I remember, I remember one of the managers coming in to the dressing room and all he said is, "Don't look up. Just look at the floor, look at your boots, look down because if you catch his eyes, he's gonna come for you." (laughs)

   5. SBSteven Bartlett21:53

      (laughs)

   6. DMDavid Moyes21:53

      So, so it used to be, "Don't look up," so that he couldn't have any eye contact with you and you had to, you know... And you'd probably put your head in a towel so that he couldn't see and, and, uh, because that was the way it was. We were... It was that. And I think that I probably had a lot of that in me when I first started. But the difference now is, is I think we're in a different... And maybe, maybe yourself and maybe you all understand, it's a different era. So as a coach and as a manager and as a, a man now, I think you need to find a way how you're moving on with that or you'd be left behind. And I've got to say, I think, in my position, I've got to admit, I have to keep trying to, uh, keep up, renew, invest in more work to find out how it's going on. There's so many new things. And it... That... Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean that I've still not got the bit of anger in me when I think the players need it. And I actually think that... I think they like it. I think sometimes they like it. I think pl- I think people want to be told the truth. And I think one of the, the worst things you can do to people is, is I think if you keep praising people all the time, I think it makes you soft as well. So I think there's a, a level of praise you can give people, but I think you've also got to be really tough with your praise as well. And I actually think that as I've got older, I've become better in giving praise.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett23:14

      Mm-hmm.

   8. DMDavid Moyes23:14

      I think there's some of my players, I'm sure, at Everton would say that I very rarely gave them praise because I, I was always looking for better from them.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett23:22

      You know, over the last, um, well, I've been in business, what, 10 years or something. Um, not, not as long as you in terms of management, but, um, even I've started to notice some, like, warning signs in people. So, like, if I see this in the interview process, okay, "Ah, well, I've been... I saw this before and then it ended in this way."

   10. DMDavid Moyes23:39

       Yeah.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett23:39

       Kind of like pattern recognition.

   12. DMDavid Moyes23:40

       Yeah, yeah.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett23:41

       You've talked a lot about, and I've read a lot about your scouting process, how you find great talent-

   14. DMDavid Moyes23:45

       Mm-hmm.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett23:45

       ... great players. What are the things you look for and the things that you consider to be warning signs?

   16. DMDavid Moyes23:50

       I always wanted someone who I thought was putting in effort.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett23:55

       Okay.

   18. DMDavid Moyes23:56

       Always thought that... And they might say, "Well, how can that come in front of many other things?" Well, I can think of many. Probably you, and you'll think of plenty of school boys, friends who were truly talented players, but maybe they didn't, weren't dedicated, didn't put in the effort to, didn't do the work. I think if you don't put the effort and the dedication to it, then... And the other thing that I use a lot is, you know, if you don't love the game completely-... then you'll probably find it really d- I think you'll find it really difficult to become a manager if you don't love the game with, or have real longevity. I think you could be a player and maybe get through your, your career 10, 15 years as a player with, maybe without loving football. But I think if you want to go longer, I think you've badly got to love, love the business. When I w- I became manager of Everton, but I did it before, I used to always meet the players. And I still do if I can. You nearly wanted to see their eyes to see, "I need you to work hard. I'm needing you to, you know, to do this job for the team." I like to see, "Are you going to take that I'm gonna be critical of you, and I want you to get better? Are you happy with it?" You, you nearly wanted to put the questions over to them, to see if they were gonna take it.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett25:03

       Did you?

   20. DMDavid Moyes25:05

       I did, to many players. And I've had, I've got to say, we've had quite a few over the time which I've got to say, who I've had in my house, who I've had in, uh, offices and we've probably not taken them. Sometimes because, a bit like you said, sometimes something just makes you go, "That's just not what I quite wanted to hear." And that might only be a gut, and it might not. It might have no reason. And the boy, some of the boys I'm talking about have gone on to be superstars and play for other clu- But something at the moment can only give you that little bit of gut feeling if you think it, it, it sounds like it's gonna fit for you. And, uh, I'm not saying you get it right, but I think at that time, you have to have your own, your own sort of things where you say, "No, I'm not gonna change. This is what I want to do and I want to keep it this way." And, uh, aye, some I've, I've missed out on some.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett25:54

       How does that process work? If you're looking, let's say you're looking for a striker. What's the process? You know, because we've heard so... I, I don't

7. 26:00 – 33:41

   The process of signing players

   1. SBSteven Bartlett26:00

      know, my only understanding of, like, signing players is playing, like, Football Manager on the, on the PlayStation or whatever.

   2. DMDavid Moyes26:05

      Yeah.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett26:05

      But I have, in my head, you have all these scouts, they produce reports.

   4. DMDavid Moyes26:09

      Yeah.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett26:09

      And then I'm, do you... You know what position you wanna fill, do you go to the scout or what happens?

   6. DMDavid Moyes26:13

      Mm-hmm. Uh, I think you... In the main, the scouts will probably bring them to you. I mean, like, if it's somebody playing for one of the teams locally or that and is available and you think there's a chance, then you'll probably try and do your homework. You'll try and, you know, obviously, statistically, you'll try and get it right. You'll try and look at the strengths and weaknesses. You'll, you'll take into consideration maybe the price he's gonna cost, where you think it's, you know, where he fits in for you, what he can do. But the ones you don't know are what you're, you're looking for your scouts to bring to you. And, and quite a lot in modern football, it's the agents who are bringing them, you know, because the agents are playing such a huge part, you know. Whether you see it as a positive or a negative, they're playing such a huge part behind the scenes in football at the moment and these people will bring it. Obviously, if you're trying to sell something, you're always going to talk it up. But in the end, you know, we would, or I would always try and get my scouts to go through it. They would probably say, "Yes, this is come, worth coming and looking at. Come in, we should, we'll go and sit and we'll, we'll sit for a few hours watching." If we wanted to take it even further, then we would go into much further detail, would eventually probably start trying to find out people who know the boy or has played with the boy and try and get a bit of his character background, would try and find out more about, you know, is he the, is he the right type, you know? Is he, is he a good boy? Is he, is he a good trainer? Is he gonna be disruptive in the training? I think all those things are really, really part of it. I don't think any, I don't think any football manager wants people who are not going to fit in and, and work with it. And I'm gonna s- again, r- reverse back to business, probably you're the same where you don't want people who are not going to fit in with what you've got. You want somebody who's gonna come in and blend in and be part of it.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett27:55

      What was your best ever signing?

   8. DMDavid Moyes27:57

      Ah, bit, I, I always say Nigel Martin I signed, Nigel Martin, the goalkeeper who was at Leeds United and he was on a free from Leeds United and we took him to Everton at the time. And it's only because he was a free, but not only that, he was a, a great goalkeeper. Obviously, he had, he'd been an England goalkeeper who was probably nearat the end of the time, but he gave me about four, five years of stability. But see, when people talk about signing, your, your best signing, over the, over the time I've now been, I've made that many signings that I've got, you know, it would be... It's really pretty shameful of me even to name one because I've got so many-

   9. SBSteven Bartlett28:34

      So many.

   10. DMDavid Moyes28:34

       ... that I could, I could say.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett28:35

       You don't have to... I will not ask you to name your worst signing, but where have you frequently got it wrong when signing players?

   12. DMDavid Moyes28:42

       Uh... No, what I think you do is I think it's the ones I've missed, the ones who you've said, "Nah, I don't think he's quite good enough. I think I'm gonna... Don't think I want..." And I've had hundreds of them.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett28:54

       Who's the one (laughs) you missed the most then?

   14. DMDavid Moyes28:56

       Well, just recently because it's, because, because we've been talking about it, you know, we-

   15. SBSteven Bartlett29:00

       Mm-hmm.

   16. DMDavid Moyes29:00

       ... we've been... Alvarez who's just played for Argentina in the World Cup, you know, was... I, I brought in a new scout who says, "Look, you should go for Alvarez at River Plate." And I watched him and I watched this very good, really good technician. I thought he, he'd done so many good things as a center forward, but I thought, "Maybe not quite the one we want." Maybe didn't quite... We had Mickey Antonio, uh, who had been doing very well and I thought, "Don't know if he's..." You know. And you see sometimes the players change in six months, but I have to say, there's other, other players like that who you don't take and don't go on to be a real success, but that one at the moment is just one because it was probably only a year ago where I, I decided, "Nah, I don't think he's probably the one we're gonna take."

   17. SBSteven Bartlett29:43

       It's the same in business. No matter how many people you hire-

   18. DMDavid Moyes29:46

       Yeah.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett29:46

       ... it's always still guessing.

   20. DMDavid Moyes29:47

       Yeah.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett29:47

       You know? And I was speaking to my friend, Gary Vaynerchuk, about this who's hired about 5,000 people and he said to me, he says, "You know, I've been in this game for 30 years and I'm still just guessing." Because we can come up with all the principles and systems we want but how someone... People change, but also how they present in an interview-

   22. DMDavid Moyes30:03

       Yeah.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett30:03

       ... can be drastically different to how they present in six months' time-

   24. DMDavid Moyes30:06

       Yeah.

   25. SBSteven Bartlett30:06

       ... when they're comfortable.

   26. DMDavid Moyes30:07

       You know what? It, it's really interesting now I'm asking you. I, I hear now and I, I hear because there's so many jobs changing in our, our industry, you see is, how do you pick a good football coach now?... you know, how would you pick a, a football manager? Whatever way you want. But how would you pick a good football manager? You know, what would give him the... You know, the owners or the people who are doing it, how are they picking it? Because again, what I said is this, "Yes, of course we can think of some real special people who would be, would be in that group." But if you're, you're a, a lesser club trying to pick a new talent, you know, you know, h- why would you get it? Has he got the drive? Has he got the energy? Has he got the love for the game to, to, to stay with it? Has he got an idea that he wants to go further and he's gonna put the work in? It's really hard and sometimes you can't find them. And I get the feeling it's the same in, in industry now as well.

   27. SBSteven Bartlett30:58

       Yeah. Um, yeah. I, I, I think the more I've hired, the more I've realized that it's just guessing, which I think-

   28. DMDavid Moyes31:04

       Yeah.

   29. SBSteven Bartlett31:04

       ... people will be surprised at. Because people will think that you'll get progressively better or your, your confidence will be... will, will grow. My confidence has actually fallen with experience.

   30. DMDavid Moyes31:12

       Yes.
8. 33:41 – 41:33

   How do you make sure theres a solid culture at West Ham?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett33:41

      as a new signing.

   2. DMDavid Moyes33:42

      Yeah. I agree.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett33:43

      How do... How do... How do you do that at the clubs you're managing now? West Ham? How have you done that in the past to make sure the culture is right and what is that culture?

   4. DMDavid Moyes33:51

      Yeah. Well, I think... I think for me the biggest one was when I... when I was at West Ham the first time, we came and we thought we'd done a good job and we kept the team up. We were asked to come in, we kept the team up and we didn't get the job. And then another manager came in and we were... we were out of work for a year. So then to be fair to the owner, David Sullivan, he phoned me back up and he says, "Would you come in?" I says, "Yeah, love to come back. No problem." I felt I had to do a bit more at West Ham or had to try. And I... I... I... I keep using and I say it openly now, I want to build a new West Ham. So what does a new West Ham mean? Well, a lot of people, a lot of supporters might not like the thought of that. But West Ham have moved to a new stadium. It's not been... it's not been appreciated by everybody. But that's where we're gonna be it looks like for the next 100 years. That's what it looks like. The Kop's gonna be there. So we need to make the best we possibly can of it. You know, I want to change the cu- I want... I want there to be lots of young kids come to West Ham. East End of London's a huge area full of West Ham supporters. (gasps) Uh, a, a lot of poverty in the area. West Ham offer great ticket prices, great opportunities. They do brilliant work in the community at West Ham in, in the East End of London. They really do. And I want it to encourage all the young kids. Now what do you need? You need exciting players so that the young kids want, want to buy a jersey so that they're not following the top two or three teams in the country and you want them to... Um, so I've... I've tried to change... I've tried to change the team but, you know, deep down I'd really like to say, "I'm trying to make West Ham better." And it used to... They always do. Other people... When I was a manager at Everton, I was a manager at Man United and other clubs, folk would say, "Ah, you get a flaky West Ham, you know they're not... not that reliable and you don't know what West Ham team's gonna turn up." Well, I want to change that culture. There's so much room for improvement at West Ham, you know? I think it's got great potential to improve and I, I hope that you get... I get the opportunity to keep it going. We've had a couple of really, really good years. Uh, success for West Ham. It's been a success and it's how we continue that success now, how we build on it. And I think if you're... if you're in business I think you'll accept it, you know, you... quite often you have a couple of years or a good year and then you might not have it quite so good because what ha... We're a little bit like that at the moment so I'm hoping that culturally I think we have changed. I think we've changed a load of things at West Ham.... we're not, we're not milky, we're not flaky. Uh, I think there's a different atmosphere in the east end of London regarding how people see West Ham. I, I like the way we've done it, but we've also h- got some exciting, really exciting young players who those young supporters I talked about could follow.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett36:50

      What are those next steps, then? If you, if you reflect back on what you did at Everton, you took them from being that kind of, you know, happy to survive club to when your last... I think in your last eight years, you finished in the top... Your last seven years, you finished in the t- One of the two.

   6. DMDavid Moyes37:03

      Yeah.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett37:03

      Your last eight years, you finished in the top eight seven times-

   8. DMDavid Moyes37:05

      Yeah.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett37:05

      ... or something to, along-

   10. DMDavid Moyes37:07

       Mm-hmm.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett37:07

       ... along those lines. Um, they became a, a consistent, competitive team at the top, top end of the table.

   12. DMDavid Moyes37:14

       Mm-hmm.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett37:14

       When you look at where West Ham is now, as we sit here now 16th in the table-

   14. DMDavid Moyes37:18

       Mm-hmm.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett37:19

       ... what is, what are those... But after two amazing years in the-

   16. DMDavid Moyes37:21

       Mm-hmm.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett37:21

       ... two previous years, where West Ham were absolutely fireworks, to be fair.

   18. DMDavid Moyes37:25

       Mm-hmm.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett37:25

       Dangerous. Very, very, very dangerous team to, to play against. I'm not a Manchester United fan, so, um, the la- the last two years have been really, really, um-

   20. DMDavid Moyes37:32

       Yeah. Mm-hmm.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett37:33

       ... incredible for West Ham. What are those steps forward now to get West Ham to being that team that, that is competing at the very top of the table? And I just find it so interesting that, in fact, when you, when you answer this question, you don't just think, "Oh, we need to buy more players." It's kind of more of a holistic, wider, broader job-

   22. DMDavid Moyes37:46

       Mm-hmm.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett37:47

       ... and needs to be done.

   24. DMDavid Moyes37:48

       Yeah. I, I, I actually think that we, we bought our players, and I think that, you know, I've, I've gone out there and said, "This is what I'm doing." But I think I... Sometimes I think in, in football, not that you need to break it, but we had a really good team for the last two years. But we had a few... Mark Noble was coming to the end. One or two other players were coming to the end. We had to change, and we were actually short in numbers. We were really short. The players had done, and I felt as if I nearly had to break it up a little bit, 'cause I had seen signs. Now, my experience, my longevity was telling me, "If I don't do this now, then I'm gonna feel I'm gonna be caught out." Now, we probably didn't do quite as well from January on last year. That was my feeling. We had some brilliant nights. We got to the semifinal of European football. You know, we'd been challenging all years. I mean, we, in the last game of the season, we, we finished seventh, but we were 10 minutes away from finishing sixth above Manchester United, you know? Uh, so the, the, the margins were incredibly small in all this. But I felt that now with my... now with the age I'm nearly seeing is, I D- I don't really give a shit now. I've got to say, "I'm not going to get many more goes at this. So if I don't make a go at it, and I don't really do what I think is right and what I want to do, then I'll regret it."

   25. SBSteven Bartlett39:05

       (laughs)

   26. DMDavid Moyes39:05

       So there's part of me said, "Yeah, we had to bring in new players, and we've gone out, and we've put our head on the block, and said, 'Here we go.' Brought these new players in. Now what I really need is hope that I can get a little bit of time to settle and get them settled in." I think we've brought in good players. I think we have got a better squad. Maybe not a better team at this exact time than what we had last year, but we've definitely got better players, which, uh, I believe we'll show that in, in the coming months.

   27. SBSteven Bartlett39:31

       Do you worry about that? Um, losing, losing your job? Is that something that, like, sits in... Y- you might... I, I wouldn't... In my business, I mean, other than when I was at Social and I had a board of directors, we're a public company-

   28. DMDavid Moyes39:42

       Mm-hmm.

   29. SBSteven Bartlett39:42

       ... so technically they could fire me.

   30. DMDavid Moyes39:44

       Mm-hmm.
9. 41:33 – 43:22

   The goal for West Ham

   1. SBSteven Bartlett41:33

   2. DMDavid Moyes41:33

      Uh-

   3. SBSteven Bartlett41:33

      If we're sat here in, you know, let's say, 10 years, uh, five years time (laughs) , that's too long in football these days-

   4. DMDavid Moyes41:39

      Yeah.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett41:39

      ... five years time, what, what's the, what's the goal?

   6. DMDavid Moyes41:43

      I think we've been successful.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett41:44

      Yeah.

   8. DMDavid Moyes41:44

      I think West Ham have been successful in the last two years. And what you m- uh, uh, no... Really, the, the ones who are the, the great winners and the serial winners are the ones who, once they get a bit of success, all they want is more of it. Uh, I'd love to be sitting here with... and bringing my trophies in here in front of you and putting them up and saying, "Here, look at these trophies." I've not got that. What have I got? I've got periods of success. You know, my teams have done well, we've got to Europe, you know, we've got to a cup final here and there. We've, we've got to semifinals. So, not everybody in the industry can have success. You know, not everybody can, you know, be walking about with their medals. And at the moment, I'm not. But I still believe there's still a big chance that I can do that.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett42:24

      Is that your KPI of success? Is that what y- y- uh, when you-

   10. DMDavid Moyes42:28

       Uh, no, it's probably not now. It's not now, because I actually think...Staying in the job wouldn't be a b-... Longevity's a really important thing in, in any work. If you can stay in it, and you can, it's... No, it's a big thing. It's showing that you've done a good enough job. But, you know, I've had a c- I've been fortunate enough, I've had a few Manager of the Year awards over, over the years. You know, last few years, I've been nominated for it. But I've said many times, I'd swap it for one of Jose Mourinho's silver medals if I got the chance, you know, or one of these trophies, all day long. So that's still got to be what I'm driving to do. Now, it'll not go on forever, because I'm getting older, and I don't want to be as old as Sir Alex or, or Roy Hodgson when they finish, those sort of people. But, but I've still got the energy. I've still got the drive. I feel as if I've got a good team. And I feel as if I'm still capable of, of keeping up with those younger

10. 43:22 – 45:04

    Ads

    1. DMDavid Moyes43:22

       ones.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett43:23

       Quick one. We are lucky enough to have Intel sponsoring this podcast, and in previous episodes, I've introduced the Intel Evo platform, the badge of approval for high-spec laptops that will enable you to be more productive on the go. All of their designs are tested to make sure they're extremely thin and making them super portable, and they also have a high-quality display and camera features. For example, this Samsung device that I'm using, for those of you that are watching on, on YouTube or Spotify, is super light, making it the perfect on-the-go device, whether I'm working in a plane, or I'm in the car, or wherever I am on the go. With Intel Evo, you don't need to sacrifice. You get the performance you need, but in a stylish and lightweight design. So, now you know, all you need to do is to look for the Intel Evo badge to be assured of performance. And as always, to find out more, head to intel.co.uk/evo. Quick one from our longest-standing sponsor, Huel. I, I can't tell you over the last... I'd say over the last... Really, it's been about two and a half years, it was really, um, post-pandemic, how much my health has become such a huge priority in my life. And I have this laser, laser focus on what I'm putting into my body. It's funny, because as you get older, you can start to feel the things you're putting into your body more and more and more. Um, and if I, if I put something into my body, especially things like gluten, if I put those things in my body, I feel them tr- tremendously the next day, my energy levels, my sleep, and everything in between. Huel has been probably the most impo- important partner in my health journey, because I've been in the boardrooms, I've been to their offices tens and tens and tens and tens of times. I've seen how they make their decisions on nutrition, and I trust it. Most of my team that are in this room with me consume it and get the benefits of it too. So, if you haven't already tried Huel, do so.

11. 45:04 – 56:03

    Being asked to manage Manchester United

    1. SBSteven Bartlett45:04

       Sir Alex.

    2. DMDavid Moyes45:05

       Sir Alex.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett45:06

       There's been a lot said about Sir Alex. I talk about him a lot because I've interviewed so many of his former players. Um, there was a, a lot of rumors that he went to your house and asked you to become the manager of Manchester United.

    4. DMDavid Moyes45:17

       No, he took me to his house.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett45:19

       Oh, he took you to his house?

    6. DMDavid Moyes45:20

       Yeah. And actually, I, uh, I... I'll tell you the story, Steve, is I... It wasn't long after I, I'd turned 50, and my wife had bought me a watch. And, and actually, we had gone through to Manchester to, to the jewelers. I needed to get a s- a, a, a link taken out, and, uh, it was actually in Altrincham, by o- all places. I was in Altrincham. And, uh, the phone rang, and it was, uh, it was Sir Alex. A- and I saw the... I says, "Oh, bloody hell, it's Alex on the phone." And I thought, "Oh, he's gonna, he's gonna want one of my players, or he's gonna want me to take one of his players. What's... You know, he's, he's coming on to say something." And he, and he said, uh, "Where are you?" I s- I, I says, "I'm, I'm in Manchester." He says, uh, "Well, right, come out to the house when you're ready, will you?" I said... And, and that's a poor Sir Alex accent probably, so don't... (laughs)

    7. SBSteven Bartlett46:14

       (laughs)

    8. DMDavid Moyes46:14

       No, don't... Yeah. And, uh, I says, I says to the wife, "I can't do it. I'm in my jeans. I couldn't go to see Sir Alex with a pair of jeans on. There's no way." So I'm saying, "Oh, what am I gonna do? Do I go down to Marks & Spencer's and buy a pair of trousers-

    9. SBSteven Bartlett46:30

       (laughs)

    10. DMDavid Moyes46:30

        ... before I go to see Sir Alex?" You know? So she's saying, "Ah, come. Way you go. Just go and get on with it and do it." So anyway, dropped my wife off at the shopping center, and, uh, and I drove out to Sir Alex's house. And, and he went in... I went in. And he says, "In you come." And, uh... Very nice house. And he's got a lovely sorta room, sports room up the stairs. And he says, "Want a cup of tea?" I says, "Aye." Took it up, cup of tea. And he, and he said, uh, "I'm retiring. And you're the next manager of Manchester United." No interview. No t- no telling me. Not saying, "Would you like to be?" No. "I'm retiring." And I nearly slipped down... It was a, it was a so I nearly slipped down because obviously that was... Nobody knew that Sir Alex was retiring. Nobody knew. No, nobody even suggested or thought about it. And I nearly slipped down when I heard him say that. And then he says, "And you're the next manager of Manchester United." And I just sorta went, "Yeah, well. No, okay." I wasn't gonna, I wasn't gonna turn around, and I, I didn't think I would ever say no, or I could... I don't even know if I was in a position to say no. And, uh, and that was as simple as that. We got underway, he said. And there was only maybe... And to be fair, there was only four weeks to go to the end of the season, maybe five weeks to go to the end of the season. I was coming out of contract to Everton, and I was really wanting to be respectful to them. And actually, my next game was against Liverpool, uh, on the Sunday. I think I met Sir Alex in the midweek on the Wednesday or something and then on the Sunday. And I knew that if we had got a draw with Liverpool, we would probably finish above them in the league. And it was at Anfield, and we did. We got a draw, and we, we did finish above them. So it didn't have any effect on, on what I was doing at Everton. But the big, the big thing was to say... And then the next day he said, uh, "I want you to come back to my house tomorrow. Uh, uh, Ed Woodward's gonna come and see you. He's gonna be the new chief executive." Who, he says, "David Gill's, uh, leaving as well."That was it. And I met Edward on the next day. And then the next day, back to his house again, and we met the Glazers. And so it was three days, three days where I dropped by to his house. The, the biggest problem I had was he said, "And you can't tell anybody about me retiring." He says, "Nobody knows," and I said, "P- no problem." He says, "Tell your wife, but nobody..." So I couldn't tell my kids. I couldn't tell my dad. I couldn't tell my dad that I was gonna get the job, or, or was getting the job. So that, that for me was how it happened. And when I look back now, to get that offer from probably, arguably, uh, the greatest, the greatest manager maybe there ever was was a great compliment. Uh, but maybe if I'd really looked into it in more detail, in more depth in, in... I was desperate to be successful as a manager and I had, had 11 years at Everton where we said we'd... Wouldn't say we'd hit the glass ceiling, but we were finding it really difficult to break into the top four, the, the competition and the money what was required. But my biggest regret was that I was so close to Bill Kenwright, the, the owner at Everton, and I, and I couldn't tell him. And it felt... And it, it was really bad that I couldn't tell him, because I was so close to Bill. But I couldn't break my word what Alex, Sir Alex said he didn't want me to tell it, so I couldn't tell anybody but my wife. So jump back in the car, drove (laughs) back to the shopping mall, shopping center, got the wife, put her in the car and I says, "I'm the new manager of Man United." And she was like, "What are you... Go piss off, you're tot- total rubbish," you know? So, uh, that was it, and that was how it went.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett50:22

        You were coming to the end of your contract with Everton at the time.

    12. DMDavid Moyes50:25

        Mm-hmm.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett50:26

        What was your plan? Y- y- you hadn't signed a contract, so you must've been thinking-

    14. DMDavid Moyes50:29

        No, I hadn't been... I had, I have to say as I had been... I think I would... My plan was probably to stay at Everton. We just hadn't got it done, and for different reasons. I always wanted to see how it was going. But I have to say, I'd, I'd met a couple other clubs. I'd met a couple of really big clubs who'd approached me and phoned me and spoke to me. You know, what was I doing, would I be interested? The truth is, I don't think I'd have, I'd have left for any of them, uh, because Everton had been so good to me. But I was also wary about, uh, overstaying your welcome at Everton. You know, sometimes just in management, supporters want change. They want s- want you to try something different. And, and I, and I get it. I'm a, I'm a huge football supporter, and I... You know, if I wasn't managing, I'd be watching football and I'd be, you know, probably talking about it like everybody else does. But, uh, I... You know, it came up, I've got a chance to manage probably the biggest club in the world. I'm following a club who always give their managers time. They gave Sir Alex time. And also that their values were known. They played young players, Man United. I always thought Man United never went out and tried to buy the best on the market. They, they never went to the, went to... They never went to the sort of designer shop to buy the best thing in the designer shop. They bought correctly. They bought young players. They bought... You know, you look at the players they had, which they come through from Beck's and the Nevilles and all the other ones who came through. They always had something a bit, uh, a bit of style about them. They never went out to get the best overseas manager in the world. They picked which fitted their model. So I actually felt when Sir Alex offered me the job and Manchester United were giving me the job, I felt they thought I must've been the best choice for the job at that time. And they saw that. And also maybe, not similar, but similar in a way that maybe there was a similar background, a similar upbringing, a similar r- route maybe to, to get to the point. So I trusted Manchester United. I really did. I trusted them because of what they stood for as a football club.

    15. SBSteven Bartlett52:34

        You know, m- many times, um, when you're successful as you were at Everton, you're given big opportunities. It's the same in business. People come to me and give me these huge opportunities. And sometimes, like, the bright s- bright lights of the opportunity have often caused me to make a, a wrong decision or not to take...

    16. DMDavid Moyes52:49

        Mm-hmm.

    17. SBSteven Bartlett52:50

        ... you know, take the right amount of due diligence, as you described there-

    18. DMDavid Moyes52:52

        Mm-hmm.

    19. SBSteven Bartlett52:52

        ... like, not really looking into the details because it's such a big thing that you almost c- can't say no to it. You said there that you wish you had looked a little bit closer at the details. What, what do you mean by that?

    20. DMDavid Moyes53:01

        Well, I'll tell you who told me, was, uh, Howard Wilkinson said to me down the line, I wish he'd told me before, he says, "All the managers who've had a dynasty..." So when you look at it, uh, I think it was Brian Clough was one of them. I think the other one was Sir Bobby Robson. All the managers who had a real, uh, dynasty... Um, I'm trying to think, Leeds United manager as well, uh, Don Revie maybe as well, I think it was. Anybody who followed them never worked. Now, I never even thought for a minute, because I, I thought to myself, "No, I'm, I'll come in and..." And I actually ch- was thinking, "I'm not changing. I'm gonna try not to change much what Sir Alex..." And of course I have to change it. It's not Sir Alex, it's me, and I have to do it my way and I have to try and do a little bit. But ultimately, uh, I was gonna keep it going. But then I'm... And I... When I look back at the things what I heard, I thought, "My goodness, if I'd looked a bit closer..." And maybe even now, I'm a bit older now than I was when I got the job. Maybe, maybe, maybe even I, I needed even more experience than maybe even I had it at that point. Maybe would be more ready at this period in my career than I was even, say, no, don't know what it was, eight or nine years ago, whenever it was.

    21. SBSteven Bartlett54:15

        So if they called you now?

    22. DMDavid Moyes54:17

        (laughs) Well, no, they've got a really good manager, I think. And I think, I think the, the, the thing about Manchester United, Manchester United have, have, have chosen incredibly good managers.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett54:27

        Yeah.

    24. DMDavid Moyes54:28

        Probably some of the best managers.

    25. SBSteven Bartlett54:30

        Yeah.

    26. DMDavid Moyes54:30

        Some of the best managers you could ever imagine have been, have been at Manchester United. So, you know, sometimes you've got to say, you know, if you're, if you're quite bright, and I'm sure you are with the business you work in, it's not always the boss's fault that this doesn't-

    27. SBSteven Bartlett54:43

        That's what I'm... Yeah.

    28. DMDavid Moyes54:43

        ... this doesn't go right. So-Look, I, I, I took over at a difficult time. You know, there was quite a few senior players probably coming to near the end of their time. But I also have to say, I was really proud that I took over the, the champions of England when, when that was the time. And that was him saying, "What a chance I've got," you know, maybe the opportunity to win trophies, the opportunity to be successful. And, and it was the thing I was probably missing from my time at Everton. I wasn't quite getting close enough to, to winning trophies.

    29. SBSteven Bartlett55:11

        Would you, would you... Erik ten Hag aside, I think he's great. I think we both agree there. But would you ever be open to coming back to Manchester United in the future if they-

    30. DMDavid Moyes55:19

        (laughs)
12. 56:03 – 1:03:40

    Culture change at Manchester United

    1. SBSteven Bartlett56:03

       that did change at Manchester United, and I only know this because I had a season ticket, the ladies and the, the men that serve you the food in, like, the hospitality suite-

    2. DMDavid Moyes56:10

       Mm-hmm.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett56:10

       ... or whatever, they always... We have a great relationship with them, and they would tell me things about how the club was-

    4. DMDavid Moyes56:14

       Mm-hmm.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett56:14

       ... maybe before I could... I had enough money to buy-

    6. DMDavid Moyes56:16

       Yeah.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett56:16

       ... a season ticket.

    8. DMDavid Moyes56:16

       Yeah.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett56:16

       One of the things they always sa- said was the, the role that David Gill had on the club as well.

    10. DMDavid Moyes56:20

        Yeah.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett56:21

        People don't ta- think, understand that enough, but David Gill was the CEO of the club.

    12. DMDavid Moyes56:25

        Yeah.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett56:25

        And I mean, I've seen in my own businesses when the CEO, me (laughs) , was removed, how mu- it was a completely different place.

    14. DMDavid Moyes56:32

        Yeah.

    15. SBSteven Bartlett56:32

        And people don't understand that, 'cause as fans-

    16. DMDavid Moyes56:34

        Mm-hmm.

    17. SBSteven Bartlett56:34

        ... we look at the manager and think, "Ah." But if... The managers in my business are very, very, very important. But the person above them that has the most power and the most control-

    18. DMDavid Moyes56:42

        Yeah.

    19. SBSteven Bartlett56:42

        ... and the most sway is the CEO. Now, that changed, and the, the, the wonderful people at Manchester United would tell me that, "Oh, when David Gill was here, he knew all of our names." And that, that really struck me that like, he knew all of our names.

    20. DMDavid Moyes56:55

        Mm-hmm.

    21. SBSteven Bartlett56:55

        He knew all of our birthdays. We used to see him. Now, we don't see-

    22. DMDavid Moyes56:58

        Yeah.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett56:59

        ... Ed Woodward anymore. We don't see the, the chief executives anymore. They don't know our names. That's a real sign of a cultural change.

    24. DMDavid Moyes57:05

        Definitely. Just think of the values what that is.

    25. SBSteven Bartlett57:08

        Yeah.

    26. DMDavid Moyes57:09

        The values of the CEO sending you a birthday card or, or doing that. And I mean, look, if we... I would be incredibly complimentary about Sir Alex. Sir Alex would phone up managers who'd lost their job or managers who'd been successful. He phoned me up when we were doing very well at West Ham six months ago, whenever it was. It, they were always correcting. And when you think of values of what it means to be at the top and what the things, small things which matter, those things really matter. But for me, I was c- taking over the club, I'd lost David Gill, who I knew very well from different things and working with him at UEFA and different things as well. And he was a huge, huge miss. But that wasn't to say that the new CEO wasn't... He was to be given every chance, and I wanted to help him, and he wanted to help me. Ultimately, it didn't work that way.

    27. SBSteven Bartlett57:58

        You said you trusted the club to give, to give you long enough.

    28. DMDavid Moyes58:01

        Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    29. SBSteven Bartlett58:01

        Do you feel like that trust was let down? How do you feel about that?

    30. DMDavid Moyes58:03

        Uh, yeah. I- I do a bit, because I feel that, you know, I think that if you're putting in a new manager, you're hoping that you're going to give them... And look, look, I left a very stable job and a very good environment to come and do it. And obviously, you know, I think when you, when we look back, you would say, "Hey, there was a, a huge change going to have to take place at Manchester United after Sir Alex." And maybe. Ideally, I think it was... We were gonna try and make it seamless, where there wasn't gonna be too big a change. But there was a lot of players changing. Uh, you know, getting to an age where they were, you know, having to move on. There was actually a big squad of, of players who had been incredibly loyal to Sir Alex, and suddenly they've got new managers coming in the door. Maybe not playing them as much, so they don't have quite the same, uh, sort of closeness to, to him and still building up relationship. So I think there was a, I think there was a lot of that, and it made it difficult. But, you know, the, the thing I... I look back at business, and, and you're a very successful businessman. Always think you have to give bad news well, because you're the boss and you run a really big business like Manchester United. And I think if you've got any class or any style, it's good when you get offer- offered the job and then you give them and you give them all the, and you talk about all this stuff. But I think when you're having to give bad news out, I think giving bad news has to be done in a good way as well. And I felt the way that, that I was told at the time at M- um, time at Manchester United wasn't done as well as it should have been done. Uh, but, you know-
13. 1:03:40 – 1:13:45

    The toll of the criticism

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:40

       If you were to warn me about the toll of that?

    2. DMDavid Moyes1:03:42

       Uh, the, the... I, I think the toll for someone who cares deeply about their profession and wants to be successful and wants to do well, the toll for me personally at the time felt, felt big. It really did. And it's probab- it probably took me a wee bit to get back on the road a little bit, with- without thinking about it. I worked real- after I lost the job, I said, "Well, I'm gonna have to go and try and reinvent, find out more new things, you know, keep, keep current. Where can I go to find out what's going on?" You know? And I obviously couldn't go d- go back to Old Trafford to watch a game, or I couldn't really go back to, to, uh, Goodison and watch a game. So it made it quite difficult. But I found myself doing quite a bit of work for UEFA. I'd done all the Champions League games, which was really good there. And, and I spoke in all the pro-license courses for the coaches, which kept me current and having to keep up-to-date with things. So those, those type of things kept me, kept my education and kept my knowledge and kept me going a bit. But, uh, I still think that when you, when you, you've been at one of the big clubs, it's always a miss because you realize the, the level they're at.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:50

       You said, "The to- the toll is big." In a very practical, real sense, what does that mean?

    4. DMDavid Moyes1:04:56

       (inhales deeply)

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:56

       Is it sleepless nights? Is it anxiety? Is it-

    6. DMDavid Moyes1:04:58

       Yeah. Yeah, a bit. I'm s- I'm someone who sleeps really well, to be honest. But I do think that it's very difficult when you, when you lose your job. In, in our, in our business, uh, you know, you're, you're talked about a lot, so you have to accept it, and I'm, I'm part of it. You will be as well. Or if things go wrong or any of your businesses fail, you'll be, you'll be current. You know, people will have criticism. But I think if you're gonna go into football management, then you have to find a way of saying, "How do I deal with it? How am I coping with it? What's my mechanism?" Uh, I remember thinking when things weren't going so well at Manchester United, you know, I'd be driving into training, so I couldn't put on TalkSport. I couldn't put on Radio Two. I couldn't put... They were talking and, um, but, uh... So I thought, "I'll put on, uh," whatever music it was, and they come on the news, and they were talking about me on that news as well. I thought, "Oh my goodness, is this ever gonna end? Is there a, is there a channel that isn't talking about Manchester United in some way?" But that was because it was getting closer to probably when I wasn't doing so well, and there was a lot of talk about it. But, uh, I think you just have to find a way of shutting yourself off from it the best you can. But the world we're in now for young coaches of social media, if y- if that's what your, your world is, or, or how you present yourself, it's much different now. And, uh, in days gone by, in the early days at Preston, I'd look at the, I'd look at the newspaper, and there'd be a letter page, and there'd be four or five supporters saying, "Why is Moyes not playing him? You know, and what's he doing?" And that used to be where the criticism was mainly coming from. As you well know now, now there's a, a world of it outside.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:42

       I, um, I got to play at, um, the London Stadium, SoccerAid. It's called London Stadium, isn't it?

    8. DMDavid Moyes1:06:47

       Mm-hmm.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:48

       Yeah, it's called the London Stadium. I had awesome... Chatted to Karren Brady once in a while. I'm seeing her soon. Um, and, uh, I met someone while I was at the SoccerAid experience who happens to be a family member...... of a player, a big Premier League player-

    10. DMDavid Moyes1:07:05

        Mm-hmm.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:05

        ... who has taken more abuse than any other player-

    12. DMDavid Moyes1:07:08

        Mm-hmm.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:08

        ... maybe over the last year.

    14. DMDavid Moyes1:07:09

        Mm-hmm.

    15. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:10

        And I met a family member and I got to chat to them. And, um, they told me about the toll it's taken on the, the whole family.

    16. DMDavid Moyes1:07:16

        Mm-hmm.

    17. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:17

        And you never think about that.

    18. DMDavid Moyes1:07:18

        Yeah.

    19. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:18

        But that was actually one of the most important things I think I experienced, was hearing from someone's younger sister-

    20. DMDavid Moyes1:07:25

        Mm-hmm.

    21. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:25

        ... that watching their older brother be abused-

    22. DMDavid Moyes1:07:28

        Mm-hmm.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:28

        ... how horrific it is. Sh- she was almost in tears.

    24. DMDavid Moyes1:07:31

        Mm-hmm.

    25. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:31

        Because, yeah-

    26. DMDavid Moyes1:07:32

        Yeah.

    27. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:32

        ... you know, if you were my dad and I watched that happen to you...

    28. DMDavid Moyes1:07:34

        Yeah. Well, I have to say, you know, and it's not... Uh, I don't think it was a... After, uh, only a week after I lost the Man United job, my dad had a heart attack. Yeah. And it, it was a... But it was a triple bypass, so it, it... I'm not saying it was because of when I left Manchester United. But that was, that was the case. And it m- but hey, who knows? Who knows? If it was then, we, we don't really think that was the reason behind it. We think it was just coming on. But, so there, there is tolls we get taken in families. Of course there is. But thankfully, my dad's doing well and still going well just now.

Episode duration: 1:29:18