Why the housing traffic jam is squeezing young Britons

1. 0:00 – 2:04

   Intro

   1. GSGary Stevenson0:00

      I'm- I'm sick of multimillionaires telling kids who can't afford to turn the heating on, "You just need to be more entrepreneurial." It's sick, Dan. It's sick.

   2. DPDaniel Priestley0:07

      Well, your video where you talk about if you don't have a rich dad, you're screwed. Well, to me, if I had of come across your content at 19, 20 years old, I would have been screwed.

   3. GSGary Stevenson0:15

      My friends can't feed their kids, okay? If it was that easy, why is everybody not doing it, then?

   4. DPDaniel Priestley0:20

      I'll tell you- I'll tell you why people aren't doing it. It's because-

   5. GSGary Stevenson0:23

      Would you like to say one thing back on that?

   6. SBSteven Bartlett0:26

      Today's debate is fiery, to say the least, but important nonetheless, as I sat down with two leading experts in wealth and entrepreneurship and the economy to discuss the state of the US, the state of the UK, and the western world.

   7. GSGary Stevenson0:39

      Do you think the reason the average Brit or American are getting poorer is because they don't know how to create wealth?

   8. DPDaniel Priestley0:44

      No, the reason people are getting poorer is because of big governments, record levels of taxes, and outdated schooling system, technology, and remote working.

   9. GSGary Stevenson0:52

      You sure about that?

   10. SBSteven Bartlett0:53

       How do you disagree with those opinions?

   11. GSGary Stevenson0:54

       Living standards are falling because of growing wealth inequality. If you allow the rich to get richer, they squeeze the middle class and the poor class out of things like housing.

   12. DPDaniel Priestley1:02

       Well-

   13. GSGary Stevenson1:02

       Let's cut tax on people who are working hard and let's raise tax on the richest and most powerful people in the world.

   14. DPDaniel Priestley1:06

       That's an overly simplified view of things. We now have 1,000 millionaires a month leaving, which means every ordinary person who pays 10 grand a year in tax will now have to pay 20 grand a year in tax. You end up cutting off your nose to spite your face.

   15. GSGary Stevenson1:18

       If we are a country that don't try and do things which are necessary because they are hard, then our kids will live in poverty.

   16. DPDaniel Priestley1:25

       What do you want people to do?

   17. GSGary Stevenson1:26

       There's a lot of different ways.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett1:27

       Buckle up. This has always blown my mind a little bit, 53% of you that listen to this show regularly haven't yet subscribed to this show. So could I ask you for a favor before we start? If you like this show and you like what we do here and you wanna support us, the free simple way that you can do just that is by hitting the subscribe button. And my commitment to you is if you do that, then I'll do everything in my power, me and my team, to make sure that this show is better for you every single week. We'll listen to your feedback, we'll find the guests that you want me to speak to, and we'll continue to do what we do. Thank you so much. Gary.

   19. GSGary Stevenson2:02

       Daniel.

2. 2:04 – 7:19

   Who Is Gary Stevenson?

   1. GSGary Stevenson2:04

   2. SBSteven Bartlett2:04

      Daniel, you've been on this show a few times before, so I wanna start with Gary and understand a little bit about your backstory and who you are. And having been through the trading game and read and watched many, many of your videos over time, I have a- a sort of deep understanding of that. But for anyone that doesn't know you, can you give me a picture of the context that, um, has brought you to where you are today, writing about the things you're writing about today and running the YouTube channel and speaking to the subject matter that you're speaking about today? Take me right back and give me as much as you possibly can.

   3. GSGary Stevenson2:30

      Okay, so my name's Gary Stevenson. Uh, I was born in a place called Ilford, which is in outer East London. Quite a poor family, little terraced house by the railway, you know, playing football in the streets kind of stuff. Um, always very good at maths since I was a kid, very talented math student. Eventually able to get into the London School of Economics, which is an extremely elite university, economics university in the center of London, which is basically a kind of investment banking boot camp. Got a job as a trader. Started working full-time as a short-term interest rates trader at Citibank in London in June 2008-

   4. SBSteven Bartlett3:11

      Interesting time.

   5. GSGary Stevenson3:11

      ... when I was 21. Obviously... Yeah, exactly, that's just before the big credit crash, the big Lehman crisis, and I watched the Lehman crisis happen in front of my eyes. I was, um... Short-term interest rate trading is basically like short-term loans and during the credit crisis, what a credit crisis is is nobody can borrow any money, so like short-term loans become really, really important. My desk, which was like historically an unfashionable area of trading became like the center of- of the crisis, or one of the centers of the crisis. People started making tons of money, um, I was working with all these crazy people. And you can imagine me, like I turn up, 21 years old and then like within three months, like everyone around me is making a ton of money during the credit crisis. But what really interested me was what happened after the crisis itself, which was... So we're betting on interest rates. Long story short, interest rates come down when the economy is weak and they go up when the economy is strong or when the economy is overheating from an inflation perspective. In 2008, all the interest rates go to zero. So suddenly, our job is basically predicting and betting on when will those interest rates go back up, which is when will the economy recover? And this is super interesting, right? In 2008, because all the interest rates went to zero so quickly, but before 2008, it's important to remember, rates would move from like five and a half to five and a quarter.

   6. DPDaniel Priestley4:29

      Mm-hmm.

   7. GSGary Stevenson4:29

      And then here in 2008, everywhere in the world slashing to zero.

   8. DPDaniel Priestley4:33

      From half a percent.

   9. GSGary Stevenson4:33

      Exactly. And everybody, all the economists were like, "Wow, this is gonna cause a massive recovery." Because they thought that interest rates were powerful. And everybody predicted that rates would come back up in 2009, which of course we now know they didn't. Then everybody predicted that rates would go up in 2010, which we now know they didn't. And then at the beginning of 2011, everybody was predicting rates would definitely go up this year. And this, to me, was so interesting. So interesting because, you know, I studied master's in economics at one of the best economics universities in the world, and now I'm working with these traders who are getting paid millions of pounds a year- million pounds a year to predict the economy, to predict the interest rates, and everybody is wrong.

   10. DPDaniel Priestley5:14

       Mm-hmm.

   11. GSGary Stevenson5:15

       Year after year after year, and this was s- I was... It's so amazing to me for a couple of reasons. First of all, it's like, "Wow, like this is a big thing that we as a society should understand," and like we're getting it wrong. But secondly, if all of the best guys in the world are getting this wrong, then if I can figure this out, I can make a ton of money here.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett5:37

       Gary, how much money did you make for Citibank at the age of 24 years old?

   13. GSGary Stevenson5:42

       That year... So that year, 2011, I put this big bet on that it would get worse forever, and I was Citibank's most profitable trader in the world that year and I made them just over $35 million.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett5:54

       You made them $35 million. You eventually decide to leave Citibank.

   15. GSGary Stevenson5:57

       Yeah.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett5:58

       Why?

   17. GSGary Stevenson6:00

       I mean, I think that's an interesting question, right? You know, in the sense that I've just explained to you what happened, which is...I made a ton of money by betting on the collapse of Western society. Uh, I did it in 2011, I did it again in 2012. Um... I would prefer for it not to collapse, Stephen. And I'm trying to stop it from collapsing. (laughs)

   18. SBSteven Bartlett6:28

       When you say "it collapsing," what exactly are you referring to that you- you don't want it to collapse?

   19. GSGary Stevenson6:33

       So, you- you were born in Botswana, right?

   20. SBSteven Bartlett6:35

       Yeah.

   21. GSGary Stevenson6:36

       Do you still have family there?

   22. SBSteven Bartlett6:37

       Um, I've got family in Nigeria, which is where my- my family are from. I was born in Botswana 'cause we were visiting there, but-

   23. GSGary Stevenson6:42

       Okay.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett6:43

       ... got family in Africa, yeah.

   25. GSGary Stevenson6:43

       Do you go to Nigeria much?

   26. SBSteven Bartlett6:44

       No. I- I've got home in Cape Town in South Africa, so I see the-

   27. GSGary Stevenson6:47

       Okay.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett6:48

       It's a great place if you wanna see inequality.

   29. GSGary Stevenson6:50

       I think there is a naivety in- in- in this country, in places like the US, that the kind of inequality, the kind of broad poverty that you see in places like South Africa, in places like Nigeria, in places like India, can't happen here. It will happen here. That is the future of this country. That is the future of the US. And I'm not just saying that. I'm betting on it, and I've been betting on it for 15 years, and I've been right for 15 years. That is

3. 7:19 – 9:53

   Who Is Daniel Priestley?

   1. GSGary Stevenson7:19

      what I'm trying to avoid.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett7:20

      Daniel, where'd you come from?

   3. DPDaniel Priestley7:23

      Yeah, (clears throat) so I grew up in Australia.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett7:25

      Mm-hmm.

   5. DPDaniel Priestley7:26

      Um, I was born to low income family. I grew up in a place that had 24% un- unemployment. Uh, pretty much the only jobs or opportunities around me were things like, uh, the trades, building, construction, pest control, um, ho- hospitality and tourism. Um, so, uh, at 14 I got a job at McDonald's, and then I'm- uh, I got a job in bar and Pizza Hut deli- delivery driver. And I discover entrepreneurship. So, I discover books about entrepreneurship, and I discover that some people make millions, similar to yourself. You saw Canary Wharf. I read a book about business ownership. Just-

   6. SBSteven Bartlett8:00

      As- as we sit here today, can you give me the overview of your business success since then?

   7. DPDaniel Priestley8:05

      Yeah, so I now have a group of companies that I've either started or bought. Um, there's... I've just sold a company, so there's seven companies in the group. Um, I've started a couple of software companies. One of our companies is now the fastest growing... one of the fastest growing companies in the UK. Um, we, you know, we're a software business. Uh, I've got a couple of agencies. I've got a education and training business.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett8:26

      And where... when you think about the UK and broadly the Western world today, what is your assessment of where we're at as a country, and what's concerning you? Because Gary expressed quite articulately that his big concern is that because of wealth inequality, we're gonna end up in a similar position to-

   9. DPDaniel Priestley8:39

      Yeah.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett8:39

       ... the likes of India. What are you concerned about?

   11. DPDaniel Priestley8:42

       I agree that it wasn't that long ago that we had real, serious wealth inequality in this country. There are amazing photos from, like, 100 years ago of kids working in mines and kids doing oyster shucking and all this horrible work. And, um, you know, there's a- there's a book Charles Dickens wrote called The Tale of Two Cities, and the opening line of the book is, "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times." And I think we've actually gotten to that point here, where some people in the UK, it's the best of times. If you... uh, like, in your situation, you're, you know, you're booming. You're a globally successful business. Um, I've got a globally successful business. And then there are a lot of people who com- completely cannot relate to this. They're, you know... Energy prices are now the most expensive in the Western world. House prices are completely unaffordable. It used to be... it used to take three years to save for a deposit. It's now 20 years if you, you know, theoretically 20 years if you can save for a deposit. Food prices are through the roof. So, we're- we're in a really diffi- like, for anyone who is not tapped into digital economy, fast growth, and all of that sort of stuff, life is getting harder and worse, um, and things are collapsing, um, if you- if you would, um, go with that. The- there is a predictable path countries

4. 9:53 – 11:46

   The Importance of Economic Freedom

   1. DPDaniel Priestley9:53

      go on, and there's this thing called the Economic Freedom Index. And the Economic Freedom Index basically says, "How economically free are you? How- how much access do you have to free markets? Um, do you... can you start a business? Can you scale a business? Um, does anything inhibit your ability to run your own life?" Countries that have high degrees of economic freedom have very low poverty. They have widespread affluence. And countries that have low economic freedoms have high poverty, and it can be the difference between less than 10% right up to 70% poverty rates. Um, and when countries go on a path towards economic freedom, poverty just drops. So India, for example, has been on that path, and they announced today that they've almost eradicated, uh, abject poverty or extreme poverty. Um, the UK went on that path of low economic freedom to high economic freedom, and we saw poverty rates come right down. But in 2008 when the global financial crisis happened, one of the things that happened is the government said, "We need to step in, and we need to take charge," and everyone said, "Please do." Um, so they came in, and they said, "All right, we're gonna ramp up debt, ramp up taxes, uh, to pay for the debt, and we're also gonna put o- all regulations in." And unfortunately, that starts to reduce economic freedom. Then the pandemic happens, and they say, "Oh, we're gonna spend, uh, more money again through debt. We're gonna have more, uh, taxes, more regulations, less economic freedom." So the UK, we went from an 82... When I arrived in 2006, we went from 82 out of a 100 down to 68 out of a 100. So we're less economically free. And predictably, what we will always see happen if you lower peoples' economic freedom, more poverty, uh, less affluence, uh, the millionaires and the wealth creators leave. Uh, the people who are stuck in, um, dead-end jobs, uh, or no jobs get incredibly frustrated. Everyone starts looking for someone to blame. People are angry, and they're like, "Who do we blame?"

5. 11:46 – 13:22

   Who Are We Blaming for the Economic Situation?

   1. DPDaniel Priestley11:46

   2. SBSteven Bartlett11:46

      And who do they blame?

   3. DPDaniel Priestley11:48

      It's very different because in the US, we blame... uh, US blames someone different to the UK. So, we have a historical cultural memory. In the UK, we have a cultural memory that the people to blame are the rich. So, uh, we have landlords and, uh, aristocracy and the landed gentry. Those guys are to blame, right? So, "Blame the rich," is what we say in the UK. In the US, they have a very different view. Their cultural memory is that they're anti-government. They want limited government.In 2023, there was this song that came out called, uh, Rich Men North of, uh, Richmond, and it was the number one song in America. And the lyrics of the song basically says, "People in Washington do not care about working people. Um, they are taxing everything we touch. You can't earn money. They depreciate the dollar. Um, they tax, tax, tax, tax, tax, and they wanna control our lives." Those are the lyrics of the songs, "controlling our lives" and "taxing us." So the American, uh, reaction to this is, who's to blame? Government. So we want smaller government. We want a Department of Government Efficiency to come in. We want someone as a wrecking ball who will come in and smash government. The British instinct is (claps hands) hate the rich. It must be the rich's fault. So when we look for, uh, like, all, all of the Western countries that implemented lower economic freedoms created more poverty, less affluence, and more disruption to their economies. So both US and UK, for example, and Australia as well, but both, uh, sides of the pond want someone to blame. It's just that the Americans blame government and we blame the rich.

6. 13:22 – 17:34

   The UK & US Debt We're Carrying From COVID

   1. DPDaniel Priestley13:22

   2. SBSteven Bartlett13:22

      Gary, I'm sure you, you have a lot to, to say there. And I know you both use the word collapsing, so you agree that there's a problem here. But I think you, from studying both of your sort of perspectives, you think that the s- the solution and the cause of the problem is different.

   3. GSGary Stevenson13:37

      I mean, I put bets on. I put bets on. I put bet... That's what I do, I put bets on. Um, at the beginning of COVID, we knew the government was gonna give an enormous amount of money out. Um, total amount of money now, UK government deficits, since the beginning of COVID is, is £1 trillion. US number is $14 trillion. That's, you know, £20,000 per UK adult. My background is I understand that when the distribution gets worse, when inequality gets worse, living standards fall. So when, when the UK government was gonna give £1 trillion out, all I wanted to know was, who's gonna end up with that money?

   4. DPDaniel Priestley14:13

      Mm.

   5. GSGary Stevenson14:13

      That's all I wanted to know. And, um, I mean, the US number, $13 trillion, $14 trillion, is just outlandish. But I think that the most amazing thing I've ever seen in my whole life was that at the beginning of COVID, the very beginning of COVID, we knew governments across the world were gonna be giving out tens of trillions of pounds, dollars, euros. Nobody even thought to ask who's gonna get-

   6. DPDaniel Priestley14:37

      Mm.

   7. GSGary Stevenson14:37

      ... tens of trillions richer. Nobody in-

   8. DPDaniel Priestley14:38

      Where does it add up?

   9. GSGary Stevenson14:38

      ... Conservatives, nobody in Labour, nobody in the Republicans, nobody in Democrats, nobody in the media, nobody in academia, nobody in the central banks, nobody asked this. It's, it's... (pauses) It's, it's almost beautiful. It's a, it's unbelievable. It's unbelieve- so I, I sat down (laughs) and I did, I did the analysis at the beginning. Because lockdown is essentially banning the spending of the rich and replacing that spending of the rich with printed money from government, what happens is the government gives workers money. They use that money to pay their bills, to pay their rent, to pay their mortgage.

   10. DPDaniel Priestley15:09

       Mm.

   11. GSGary Stevenson15:09

       It goes to the rich. The rich can't spend it because they're locked indoors. And what you get is essentially an enormous amount of money from the government to the poor, to the rich, and this massive, massive transfer of wealth. Um, that was obviously gonna... That was so obviously going to happen at the beginning of COVID. Nobody discussed it, which I think is itself amazing. Let me ask you a question, all right? If we were now to pause the economy for two years, and during that pause, massively increase wealth inequality, what do you think would happen to broad living conditions when we unpaused?

   12. DPDaniel Priestley15:42

       Uh, see, one of the things that I think happened during the pandemic is everything went digital, and, um, (laughs) entrepreneurs and investors did actually think about what would happen. The investors immediately boomed stocks like Zoom and, uh, Microsoft, and we ended up with the Magnificent Seven. Um, yeah, I don't know if you... You know, there's seven big tech companies in the USA market, and those big seven companies have gone from $5 trillion valuation to $17 tri- trillion valuation, uh, in the time of the pandemic. And if you think about what did the pandemic do, uh, everyone had to work from home, so we all had to have Microsoft subscriptions. Everyone went onto websites, so we all went to AWS, uh, Amazon. We all started buying and learning how to buy from Amazon rather than buying from our local high streets. Every business in the world figured out how to run their business remotely. Uh, we had this massive transformation. It was, it was like... It's actually a wholesale transformation of society, that we all learned how to live and work differently. Um, I saw a boom in entrepreneurship. So what I saw as an entrepreneur accelerator, um, someone who runs an entrepreneur accelerator, is just there was this sudden boom in people launching businesses, uh, setting up Shopify accounts, setting up YouTube, uh, businesses. So the money really has moved from the traditional economy, the 2019 high street economy, over to the digital economy. And what we're see is that the investors know what's going on and they just invest in these Magnificent Seven company. I think 50% of the gains of the S&P 500 is tech companies. Um, so all the money just goes flooding into the, the technology companies. My, my belief is that technology is really dividing people, that essentially if you take anyone from any background, if they work in technology, uh, if they're in media tech, finance, any of that stuff that operates online, they tend to actually do pretty, pretty well after

7. 17:34 – 26:03

   Is There Financial Security for Most of Us in 2025?

   1. DPDaniel Priestley17:34

      the pandemic.

   2. GSGary Stevenson17:34

      Can I ask you a question there, Alex?

   3. DPDaniel Priestley17:35

      Yeah, go for it.

   4. GSGary Stevenson17:36

      Do you think the average Brit, American, Australian, wherever the person out there is watching, if they quit their job and go work in tech, do you think they'll be able to get financial security relatively easily?

   5. DPDaniel Priestley17:47

      (sighs) Depends when you defy- define financial security. The issue with house prices...

   6. GSGary Stevenson17:53

      The ability to raise a family, have a home.

   7. DPDaniel Priestley17:55

      Yeah. So the having a home is a big issue, right? So here's wha- here's what I h- here's what I see with houses, 'cause houses annoy me as well. My dad bought a house for $18,000 (laughs) , which is about £10,000 or less than £10,000, and it's probably worth over a million dollars, um, uh, today. So something went on. And, and this, by the way, is not UK-specific. Uh, the socialist countries had house prices go through the roof. If you go to Norway or Sweden, their house prices grew by 600%, uh, and then from the-

   8. GSGary Stevenson18:23

      It's happening everywhere. It's happening.

   9. DPDaniel Priestley18:24

      It's every, everywhere.

   10. GSGary Stevenson18:24

       It's, it's not specific to anywhere. It's happening everywhere.

   11. DPDaniel Priestley18:26

       But, but what happened, what ha- what has, and it definitely happened in the UK, is we actually have, um, a housing traffic jam. So...In this country, in the UK, we have 9.5 million homes that have two or more spare bedrooms. Big family homes have two or more spare bedrooms and when you look into who owns those houses, 78% of housing wealth is baby boomers. Um, and now anecdotally, I take my kids trick-or-treating at, uh, Halloween and we go down a street that is big family homes and you go knock on the doors and it's all people over 65, right? And they're living in a big family home with empty spare bedrooms. We haven't-

   12. GSGary Stevenson19:01

       So you think the average American over 65 is living luxuriously?

   13. DPDaniel Priestley19:05

       The average American over 65 ... So more than half of the US economy is in the hands of baby boomers, right? So they own all the houses. The, the houses got bought up cheap. Baby boomers still own those houses to this day. The big family homes with multiple spare bedrooms are empty, um, and now that creates this traffic jam-

   14. GSGary Stevenson19:24

       So my-

   15. DPDaniel Priestley19:25

       ... for people my age.

   16. GSGary Stevenson19:25

       My grandparents-

   17. DPDaniel Priestley19:27

       Yeah.

   18. GSGary Stevenson19:27

       They all owned property.

   19. DPDaniel Priestley19:29

       Yeah.

   20. GSGary Stevenson19:31

       All of them. All four of them died with nothing, um, because that wealth which they had in, in property was, was used in equity release schemes. They, they-

   21. DPDaniel Priestley19:42

       Mm-hmm.

   22. GSGary Stevenson19:42

       It was used in paying through their retirement. It was used in end-of-life care. Um, do you think when those old people die, young people today will be rich?

   23. DPDaniel Priestley19:52

       There is half the economy held by baby boomers. It's either going to be passed down or passed into the age care industry or passed into, uh, the, the... But the issue of why we can't get homes, two things. Government massively inflated the value of homes through debt, so they just in- injected... Like low interest rates that you're involved in-

   24. GSGary Stevenson20:11

       Who, who is the debt to?

   25. DPDaniel Priestley20:13

       Well, the debt is to anyone who can take out a loan because if it's 0% interest rates or 2% interest rates-

   26. GSGary Stevenson20:17

       Okay. Do you think it's, the debt is to ordinary families? Do you think ordinary families are the creditors?

   27. DPDaniel Priestley20:20

       When you say ordinary families, you mean bottom third?

   28. GSGary Stevenson20:23

       So if your average British or American family-

   29. DPDaniel Priestley20:25

       It's basically-

   30. GSGary Stevenson20:25

       ... now has half a million pounds of debt-
8. 26:03 – 28:47

   What Does Gary Think of Daniel's Views?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett26:03

   2. GSGary Stevenson26:03

      I just wanna know what Daniel thinks.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett26:04

      Right.

   4. GSGary Stevenson26:04

      And I want our viewers to be able to research Daniel's opinions. (laughs)

   5. SBSteven Bartlett26:07

      Well, but how, how do you disagree with those opinions?

   6. GSGary Stevenson26:09

      Listen, Daniel's a businessman. He's obviously a very successful businessman. You know, I've, I've not been anywhere ... I'm not a businessman. I'm not gonna pretend to be a businessman. I'm an economist. I make money by being right in the economy. Daniel's a good businessman, and I'm right on the economy. You know, it's as simple as that basically, you know. I'm not a good businessman, but I've got 15 years of being right on this, on the economy. And look, and I, I know you're probably a wealthy man, you probably don't want to pay higher taxes, you probably don't want your kids to pay higher taxes, but we exist in an economy where wealth is being extracted out of the middle class, out of the working class very, very rapidly. It's benefiting people like the three of us at this table. It will benefit our kids. You know, our kids will be rich, their kids will be poor. And I just think we should be honest with them. Capitalism's finished. We won. Well done, Steven. Well done, Daniel. Well done, Gary. It's over now. Our kids will be rich. Their kids will be poor. They'll pay the taxes. We won't pay the taxes. We'll avoid it. I'll make money betting on it year after year. Why are we lying to them? Why are we lying to them?

   7. DPDaniel Priestley27:06

      (laughs) Yeah, I, I think that's an overly simplified view of things. I don't think our-

   8. GSGary Stevenson27:09

      It's an overly simplified view of things that has made me a multimillionaire.

   9. DPDaniel Priestley27:12

      Yeah, yeah, I ... Well, look, entrepreneurs take bets on the economy as well. We take bets differently. Um, when we start a company, we're betting on how the economy will be.

   10. GSGary Stevenson27:18

       Do you think the average British and American worker at the 50th percentile, do you think their kids will be richer than they are?

   11. DPDaniel Priestley27:25

       It depends if we have economic freedom or not, right? We're, we're gonna have a split test on this.

   12. GSGary Stevenson27:30

       But do you think we will?

   13. DPDaniel Priestley27:30

       Right. We're gonna have a split test. We're gonna have ... The UK seems like we're going to have more taxes, more regulations. And it seems like the US is gonna have less taxes and less regulations. Here's what I've noticed. I've noticed that places like Singapore that have small governments, um, have got widespread affluence. There's not a lot of poverty in Singapore. Same as Sweden.

   14. GSGary Stevenson27:48

       Yeah, except for the cleaners living in the closets, yeah.

   15. DPDaniel Priestley27:51

       You know, uh, look-

   16. GSGary Stevenson27:53

       But we don't count them in the statistics, just like we don't count our viewers.

   17. DPDaniel Priestley27:55

       Diff- that, that's not widespread in Singapore.

   18. GSGary Stevenson27:58

       Well, there's a lot of people ... Well, I've seen them in the closets.

   19. DPDaniel Priestley28:01

       There's, there, there are some people-

   20. GSGary Stevenson28:01

       (laughs) I've seen them in the closets.

   21. DPDaniel Priestley28:02

       There are, there, there are some-

   22. GSGary Stevenson28:04

       But they're not Singaporeans.

   23. DPDaniel Priestley28:05

       And, uh, well, also-

   24. GSGary Stevenson28:06

       We only count the rich ones.

   25. DPDaniel Priestley28:08

       Uh, look, the, the, also the issue is that they've come from even worse conditions in many cases. People move to Singapore for o- an increase in lifestyle, right? The, um ... You could take Ireland or Swe- uh, Switzerland, right? Economically free places. Ireland was economically in a disaster in-

   26. GSGary Stevenson28:26

       Do you think the average Irish person lives well?

   27. DPDaniel Priestley28:28

       Well, their eco- their economy almost-

   28. GSGary Stevenson28:30

       The average 50th percentile Irish person lives well?

   29. DPDaniel Priestley28:31

       Their, their economy almost collapsed in 2011, and they went down the road of lower taxes, lower regulations, and they attracted all sorts of businesses into the co- economy.

   30. GSGary Stevenson28:41

       And do you think that works well for the average Irishman who doesn't own a home in Dublin?
9. 28:47 – 34:11

   The Current Homeownership Situation

   1. DPDaniel Priestley28:47

   2. GSGary Stevenson28:47

      I'm measuring people by the average.

   3. DPDaniel Priestley28:49

      I, by, by the way, I agree.

   4. GSGary Stevenson28:49

      I wanna know what the average man or woman-

   5. DPDaniel Priestley28:51

      And also-

   6. GSGary Stevenson28:52

      ... in Dublin today lives like.

   7. DPDaniel Priestley28:53

      By the way, I, I'm also furious about the homeownership thing. Everyone is. Um, I think it's utterly ridiculous the way home- like, the idea that homes are now worth 10 times the average wage, all of that. The difference is I blame government for that. Uh, I blame high taxes where they've ... Because of high taxes, they can take out more debt. They can then inflate the economy.

   8. GSGary Stevenson29:13

      So do you think if we shrink the government, if we start to slash government spending, do you think that would improve living conditions?

   9. DPDaniel Priestley29:19

      Well, the UK government is 45% of the economy. Like, that's a huge government. It's the biggest since World War II.

   10. GSGary Stevenson29:25

       So do you think US living conditions will increase in the next few years because we have a US government now that's planning to slash the US government?

   11. DPDaniel Priestley29:31

       Well, that's what the US voters have asked for.

   12. GSGary Stevenson29:32

       Do you think it will improve living conditions?

   13. DPDaniel Priestley29:35

       Uh, do I think it'll improve if there's sm-

   14. GSGary Stevenson29:37

       For the average American.

   15. DPDaniel Priestley29:38

       If there's smaller government. Uh, yeah, I trust markets. So here's the thing-

   16. GSGary Stevenson29:40

       So you think the average US American will be richer in three years than they are now.

   17. DPDaniel Priestley29:43

       I, here's what I trust. I trust economic freedom. If people have freedom, they create better decisions for their own life. There's two ways to make decisions, right?

   18. GSGary Stevenson29:51

       Do you have freedom?

   19. DPDaniel Priestley29:51

       There's two ways-

   20. GSGary Stevenson29:51

       Do you have freedom?

   21. DPDaniel Priestley29:52

       I've got less freedom than I did when I arrived.

   22. GSGary Stevenson29:54

       Do you have freedom?

   23. DPDaniel Priestley29:54

       Just-

   24. GSGary Stevenson29:54

       'Cause my sister can't pay the rent. Is that freedom?

   25. DPDaniel Priestley29:56

       The, if you're living in a country-

   26. GSGary Stevenson29:59

       She can't afford to live in the city that she was born in.

   27. DPDaniel Priestley30:01

       I, I agree. You and I agree on the problem.

   28. GSGary Stevenson30:04

       Is that freedom?

   29. DPDaniel Priestley30:04

       You keep bringing back to the problem.

   30. GSGary Stevenson30:06

       I keep bringing it back to people because the people who wa- we're millionaires. Okay? The people who watch us are mostly not millionaires.
10. 34:11 – 36:28

    US vs UK Market With Building Technology

    1. DPDaniel Priestley34:11

       US is very smart in that they've built a technology powerhouse and the UK has completely lost our technology industry. Our, our tech industry is in decline. Same, same across Europe. China and the US know that the game is tech, and they're basically pulling all the tech company into the, into their borders. And what's happening a lot, you know, is the erosion of good jobs and the erosion of, of just normal, well-paying, uh, jobs, because they're, they're going. And it's a bit of a self-fulfilling loop, that the more we lose millionaires, the tax burden falls on everyone else, so they put the taxes up, and then the millionaires say, "Oh, the taxes are too high," so they leave. Um, I've watched some of the most incredible entrepreneurs that you would want here, that would employ your sister at a high rate, um, and they've picked up and left because the taxes are too high.

    2. GSGary Stevenson34:58

       So are you saying we should tax working people less?

    3. DPDaniel Priestley35:01

       Uh, well, the, the, the overall government has to be smaller.

    4. GSGary Stevenson35:06

       Okay.

    5. DPDaniel Priestley35:06

       Uh, you can't... whoever's pa-

    6. GSGary Stevenson35:07

       So what, what do you want to cut in the government?

    7. DPDaniel Priestley35:09

       If you, uh, yeah, well, I mean you'd have to-

    8. GSGary Stevenson35:11

       Child services?

    9. DPDaniel Priestley35:12

       We'd have to... No.

    10. GSGary Stevenson35:13

        Police?

    11. DPDaniel Priestley35:13

        No. Well, what I'm trying to say-

    12. GSGary Stevenson35:14

        Education? NHS?

    13. DPDaniel Priestley35:16

        All I know is this-

    14. GSGary Stevenson35:17

        Pensions?

    15. DPDaniel Priestley35:18

        You go to Switzerland, they spend 20-

    16. GSGary Stevenson35:19

        Welfare for single mothers?

    17. DPDaniel Priestley35:20

        ... 25%.

    18. GSGary Stevenson35:21

        Disabled benefits?

    19. DPDaniel Priestley35:21

        Just hold-

    20. GSGary Stevenson35:21

        What do you want to cut?

    21. DPDaniel Priestley35:22

        Hold up. All I know is in Switzerland-

    22. GSGary Stevenson35:24

        I'll tell you what I wanna do.

    23. DPDaniel Priestley35:25

        ... the, the government is 25%-

    24. GSGary Stevenson35:26

        I wanna cut the taxes on those entrepreneurs and raise the taxes on the billionaires.

    25. DPDaniel Priestley35:30

        Yeah.

    26. GSGary Stevenson35:31

        Because I worked my tits off.

    27. DPDaniel Priestley35:33

        How many billionaires are in the UK?

    28. GSGary Stevenson35:34

        There's a lot of billionaires in the UK.

    29. DPDaniel Priestley35:35

        There's 150.

    30. GSGary Stevenson35:36

        Yeah, so tax them all. What, what do they pay?
11. 36:28 – 40:52

    Taxing Billionaires

    1. DPDaniel Priestley36:28

       more in inheritance tax.

    2. GSGary Stevenson36:28

       So he pays 0.6% a year?

    3. DPDaniel Priestley36:31

       ... pro rata-

    4. GSGary Stevenson36:31

       You're talking 0.6% a year.

    5. DPDaniel Priestley36:32

       B- but that would be the same as-

    6. GSGary Stevenson36:33

       H- what percent did I pay per year?

    7. DPDaniel Priestley36:35

       No, no, no, but that's-

    8. GSGary Stevenson36:35

       60%.

    9. DPDaniel Priestley36:36

       Hold up.

    10. GSGary Stevenson36:36

        So you're saying I pay, what, 60 over 0.6?

    11. DPDaniel Priestley36:39

        No. No. No. No. No.

    12. GSGary Stevenson36:40

        100 times the tax rate is what I pay.

    13. DPDaniel Priestley36:41

        You're not com- you're not comparing apples with apples.

    14. GSGary Stevenson36:42

        Wait, why is it not apples with apples?

    15. DPDaniel Priestley36:43

        Because-

    16. GSGary Stevenson36:43

        This guy pays 0.6% a year, I pay 60% a year.

    17. DPDaniel Priestley36:47

        No, that's inheritance tax.

    18. GSGary Stevenson36:48

        I paid that 60% every year, Daniel.

    19. DPDaniel Priestley36:50

        You're talking income tax.

    20. GSGary Stevenson36:50

        Every year I paid it.

    21. DPDaniel Priestley36:51

        You're paying income tax.

    22. GSGary Stevenson36:52

        So th- why have I paid-

    23. DPDaniel Priestley36:53

        The Duke of Westminster is paying income tax.

    24. GSGary Stevenson36:54

        Why do I pay more than him?

    25. DPDaniel Priestley36:55

        The Duke of Westminster pays income tax. He probably, he probably makes your bill blush, uh-

    26. GSGary Stevenson37:00

        Yeah? You think he pays income tax?

    27. DPDaniel Priestley37:01

        Yeah. Well, if he's gonna live, he has to withdraw money to have his income. He also... L- let me give you a list-

    28. GSGary Stevenson37:07

        Okay.

    29. DPDaniel Priestley37:07

        ... of all the taxes he would pay. He'd pay income tax, corporate tax, he'd pay stamp duty when he buys a building, he pays, uh, a- uh, any of the other taxes, VAT when he spends money. All the same taxes apply to a duke as they apply to anybody else.

    30. GSGary Stevenson37:20

        So you think he pays income tax on-
12. 40:52 – 45:25

    Do You Tax Their Value or the Countries Where They Trade?

    1. DPDaniel Priestley40:52

       US now.

    2. GSGary Stevenson40:53

       But let's say you move to Cayman Islands and the US says, "We're gonna tax your revenue at point of sale."

    3. DPDaniel Priestley41:01

       Hmm.

    4. GSGary Stevenson41:01

       What can you do?

    5. DPDaniel Priestley41:02

       W- W- Well, that's different, right, because that's not taxing billionaires, that's c- taxing companies. See, when you say tax the rich on their wealth-

    6. GSGary Stevenson41:10

       Yeah.

    7. DPDaniel Priestley41:11

       ... that's different to saying tax companies a consumption tax.

    8. GSGary Stevenson41:14

       Oh, wait, but you just said the rich own companies. You said that's what they own.

    9. DPDaniel Priestley41:16

       Yeah. But you're saying how do you tax them, right? So do they ta- do you tax their wealth-

    10. GSGary Stevenson41:21

        Yeah.

    11. DPDaniel Priestley41:21

        ... which is what they own, or do you tax the companies where they trade? Um, typically, consumption taxes get passed on to consumers, so-

    12. GSGary Stevenson41:28

        Oh, it's not a consumption tax. This is a tax on the ownership.

    13. DPDaniel Priestley41:30

        Yeah, but if you simply say when you're doing revenues, then that's a consumption tax.

    14. GSGary Stevenson41:34

        So you're saying if we start to tax, if we start to tax the profits-

    15. DPDaniel Priestley41:37

        And by the way, I-

    16. GSGary Stevenson41:38

        ... of companies-

    17. DPDaniel Priestley41:38

        By the way, I'm not exactly against you on, on companies. I think it's disgusting that a British company can s- can take out a Facebook ad to sell to a British consumer a British product and Facebook pretends to be in Ireland on that transaction. Um, and Amazon, you can buy something on Amazon in Britain from a British supplier, from a British warehouse, and Amazon pretends to be in Luxembourg in that situation. And that sucks, right? Like, that- that does not seem fair, and it strikes me as very strange that the government is okay with that. Right now, the government is chasing down mums and dads who sell a few things on eBay, uh, and chasing them for taxes, but they don't talk to eBay. Uh, they're- they're- they're paranoid about someone doing a little bit of a side hustle on Facebook, but Facebook's fine to pretend to be in Ireland. So I don't agree with all of, all of that, right? Like, I think we're- we're missing some serious tricks here. But the idea with taxing-... billionaires at wealth, billionaires will just leave. They just get up and leave.

    18. GSGary Stevenson42:35

        Okay.

    19. DPDaniel Priestley42:35

        And, and not just billionaires, but millionaires.

    20. GSGary Stevenson42:37

        What, what do millionaires own? What do billionaires own?

    21. DPDaniel Priestley42:39

        Companies.

    22. GSGary Stevenson42:40

        And where do companies get their money from?

    23. DPDaniel Priestley42:41

        Revenues.

    24. GSGary Stevenson42:42

        And where do the revenues come from?

    25. DPDaniel Priestley42:44

        Purchasing. People purchasing stuff.

    26. GSGary Stevenson42:46

        And where do those people live?

    27. DPDaniel Priestley42:48

        All over the world.

    28. GSGary Stevenson42:49

        We can tax them at that point.

    29. DPDaniel Priestley42:50

        Well, that's consumption tax.

    30. GSGary Stevenson42:51

        This, this is the thing.
13. 45:25 – 48:39

    Why Are Millionaires Leaving the UK?

    1. SBSteven Bartlett45:25

       away?

    2. GSGary Stevenson45:25

       Well, it's not because they're taxing their wealth because we don't have any wealth taxes. (laughs)

    3. SBSteven Bartlett45:28

       Why, why do you think they're leaving?

    4. GSGary Stevenson45:30

       I think the reason they're leaving is because the UK economy is, is really, really weak, because the UK consumer is really, really weak, because we've absolutely crushed the spending power of your average British family.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett45:39

       And where are they going?

    6. GSGary Stevenson45:40

       The average British family can barely afford to feed the kids and turn the heating on. So, why are you gonna start a business here when the customers are absolutely impoverished?

    7. DPDaniel Priestley45:47

       Look, it corresponds with a new tax that we brought in, which was, um, we ended the non-dom scheme. So, the non-dom scheme basically said if you're living in the UK, but you've got businesses all over the world, uh, then we only tax you on what you've got in the UK. Um, and if you die in the UK, uh, we'll only tax you on your UK assets for inheritance tax if you're a non-dom. Uh, but if you die in the UK and you've got, uh, wealth in India, once that non-dom scheme ended, they basically said, "We will tax you on everything globally." If you're an economic... Uh, if you're a tax resident in the UK, everything you've got globally, we want 40% of it. So unfortunately, every wealth manager contacted their clients and said, "You can't stay here. You're gonna have to get out." Um, it's, it's gotten really bad. A thousand people a month are leaving and in the UK, 1% of people pay 30% of the taxes, 10% of people pay 60% of the taxes. And you imagine if we're sitting out at dinner and there's 10 of us out to dinner, and one person says, "Hey, I've got this. I'll go... I'll get 60% of the bill tonight." We say to them, "No, it should be 70%, should be 80%." And they say, "You know what? I'll get up and leave." So, they leave, everyone else's bill just doubled. So, what's gonna happen is if we drive the millionaires out of this country, everyone, every ordinary normal person who pays 10 grand a year in tax will now have to pay 20 grand a year in tax.

    8. GSGary Stevenson47:04

       S- so the reason they left because we used to allow them to not pay tax, and now we're asking them to pay tax.

    9. DPDaniel Priestley47:08

       On their, on their global incomes, on their global, uh, businesses.

    10. GSGary Stevenson47:10

        So, isn't it a bit more like if we were 10 of us at dinner and there was one guy who came onto dinner on the condition he wouldn't pay then leaves, because these guys weren't paying tax anyway. If the reason they left is because they weren't paying tax-

    11. DPDaniel Priestley47:20

        No, it's like saying, um, w- it's like saying, "Hey, I'll pay 60% of this table." And they say at the table, "Hey, wait a second, we also want you to pay for e- uh, everything that's happening at other restaurants as well."

    12. GSGary Stevenson47:32

        Isn't it a bit more like these guys-

    13. DPDaniel Priestley47:34

        We're stretching the analogy.

    14. GSGary Stevenson47:35

        ... were here on a condition... Or like, you, you yourself said-

    15. DPDaniel Priestley47:38

        No, you're 100% right, yeah.

    16. GSGary Stevenson47:38

        ... the reason why they left is because we let them live here-

    17. DPDaniel Priestley47:41

        No, taxes-

    18. GSGary Stevenson47:41

        ... on the condition that they didn't have to pay taxes.

    19. DPDaniel Priestley47:43

        On their global... Yeah, taxes matter, right?

    20. GSGary Stevenson47:45

        Yeah.

    21. DPDaniel Priestley47:45

        So why are, why is everyone going to Dubai? Dubai, they're going there 'cause there's no tax.

    22. GSGary Stevenson47:49

        These guys, they live in Dubai, their money comes from the West. They are making money from the West while your average Western ordinary person watching this show now cannot afford to buy a house, cannot afford to have a family. We can tax those revenues at the point of sale.

    23. DPDaniel Priestley48:04

        That's called a cons- that's called a con-

    24. GSGary Stevenson48:04

        Why do we allow these guys-

    25. DPDaniel Priestley48:06

        It's a, called a consumption tax.

    26. GSGary Stevenson48:07

        No, it's not. It's a tax on prof- (laughs) A tax on profit-

    27. DPDaniel Priestley48:08

        When, when you, you just said-

    28. GSGary Stevenson48:09

        ... is not a tax on consumption.

    29. DPDaniel Priestley48:10

        You just said at point of sale, which means it's a consumption tax.

    30. GSGary Stevenson48:12

        Yeah, based on the profits. You look at how much profit they have-
14. 48:39 – 52:29

    Stopping Profit Shifting of Companies

    1. GSGary Stevenson48:39

       profit shifting works.

    2. DPDaniel Priestley48:39

       ... from a company. Right. Go on. Have you noticed-

    3. GSGary Stevenson48:40

       Okay, so I, I... Listen, these guys are not Gandalf. You just say, "We don't accept profit shifting."We don't need to accept profit shifting. China does not accept profit shifting. We did not accept profit shifting 50 years ago. We do not have to accept profit shifting.

    4. DPDaniel Priestley48:51

       Y-

    5. GSGary Stevenson48:52

       But you have a government class-

    6. DPDaniel Priestley48:54

       Yeah.

    7. GSGary Stevenson48:54

       ... who are extremely wealthy, and the media class-

    8. DPDaniel Priestley48:56

       But, but-

    9. GSGary Stevenson48:56

       ... who are extremely wealthy saying it's impossible to tax rich people.

    10. DPDaniel Priestley48:59

        Yeah. But I would-

    11. GSGary Stevenson48:59

        And I'd like to say, I will agree 100%, it is difficult to tax rich people.

    12. DPDaniel Priestley49:04

        Yeah.

    13. GSGary Stevenson49:04

        It is very, very, very difficult to tax rich people.

    14. DPDaniel Priestley49:06

        So the difference-

    15. GSGary Stevenson49:07

        I don't, I don't s- come here saying I wanna tax rich people because it's easy. I know it's hard. I know probably I'm gonna lose. I know our viewers' kids will live in desperate poverty. I know that. I do this because it is hard. If we are a country which says to ourselves, "We don't try and do things which are necessary to keep our kids out of poverty because they are hard," then our kids will live in poverty. I don't need to be here. I'm a multimillionaire just like you. I could be in the Philippines drinking pina coladas. I come in here because I come from a poor background-

    16. DPDaniel Priestley49:35

        Mm-hmm.

    17. GSGary Stevenson49:35

        ... and it's ordinary families like my family, like the kids I grew up with, whose kids are gonna be in poverty. It's difficult, but it is necessary. Sometimes we have to do things not because they're easy, but because they are hard. That is what makes a rich country rich, and that is what protects ordinary people. Listen, our grandparents lived in poverty. Did they say, "Let's not change it because it's hard"? No, they didn't.

    18. DPDaniel Priestley49:59

        Hmm.

    19. GSGary Stevenson49:59

        They fought and they demanded, they demanded healthcare, education, housing, food, and they got it. They got it.

    20. DPDaniel Priestley50:05

        So you think we're not demanding enough?

    21. GSGary Stevenson50:06

        That's why my parents could live a good quality life. They got those things. They got those things, and they were aware that in order to do that, you could not allow the super rich who have been living lives of luxury for hundreds and hundreds of years to eat everything while ordinary families couldn't afford to feed their kids. I know it's difficult. I know it's difficult, and I know I'm probably gonna lose. I know that. I know I'm probably gonna lose, and that means our viewers will be poor. But I do it anyway because I do not want this country that I grew up in to fall into desperate poverty.

    22. DPDaniel Priestley50:33

        I agree with you on the passion, and I agree with you on the problem. I don't agree with you on the solution because in 2019-

    23. GSGary Stevenson50:41

        Well, that's fine because, uh, we'll be rich and our kids will be rich.

    24. DPDaniel Priestley50:43

        Just for a second. In t- in 2020... And that's not what I'm saying. In 2020, we made a decision globally to shut down the economy, and we taught everyone that they can live and work from anywhere. The biggest threat to everything you're saying is remote working, the fact that we can live and work from anywhere. Our grandparents, their boss, if their boss owned a company, that company had to physically be in the country, and the boss had to physically be in the country. If we look at today, there are plenty of fitness trainers who work for a gym, and the owner of that gym is somewhere overseas. Plenty of people work in, live in, work in a restaurant, and the owner of the restaurant lives overseas. You can live in... You can run a business from anywhere in the world right now. So the problem that we face is that you're describing how on one p- hand you say, "We need to tax it at the point of sale," which is a consumption tax, and then, and this is what I'm saying-

    25. GSGary Stevenson51:30

        It's not a cons- it's a tax on profits.

    26. DPDaniel Priestley51:30

        Okay, and then you say a tax on profit, and then you say, "Oh, but then we'll stop profit shifting." By the way, I'm also actually all for this idea of stopping profit shi- I th- I've already said, I think it's utterly ridiculous the way that many of these global companies are treated. And if we don't stop that, then all the money just flows out to the tech companies. Um, so I'm, I'm with you on that. But when you say tax the rich, the actual people who own the companies, those people can just be anywhere right now. So-

    27. GSGary Stevenson51:58

        But their, but their revenues can't. Their customers, their customers are where their customers are. Their customers are where their customers are. Listen, Amazon doesn't pay any UK tax, doesn't pay any US tax. Where are the customers? In the UK and the US.

    28. DPDaniel Priestley52:08

        In the UK and the U- yeah, US.

    29. GSGary Stevenson52:10

        And do you really think it's impossible for us to tax that?

    30. DPDaniel Priestley52:12

        Well, you're talking about taxing people at 10 million plus, right? So this is a lot of startup entrepreneurs.
15. 52:29 – 57:51

    How $10M+ Companies Avoid Taxes

    1. DPDaniel Priestley52:29

       that.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett52:29

       Dan, if you... You, you're worth more than 10 million pounds. So, if we tax people on, uh, as Gary says, that have more than 10 million, what are your options to avoid... Say if your objective was to avoid that, what options do you have?

    3. DPDaniel Priestley52:42

       Look, if, if my objective was to a- a- avoid it, I pass a board resolution that we're moving the head office somewhere else.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett52:48

       Yeah.

    5. DPDaniel Priestley52:48

       Um, we move the intellectual property somewhere else. I pick up and move my family somewhere else. And within about a week or two, we've got a WeWork office somewhere else, I've got a new house on Airbnb somewhere else, and I cut ties with the UK, and I'm non-tax resident here, and I can... I have a digital business. I can literally make my head office anywhere in the world. If there was a particular country that turned hostile towards, uh, our operations, then I'd have to withdraw service from that thing, you know, so that, that's possible, but it's unlikely that that would actually happen. But ultimately, if I choose to get up and leave, then I get up and leave. Now, the, the, the bigger issue is, would I have even come here in the first place? And then there's another issue. And here's the other issue, Gary, for you. You've just had 750,000 subscribers to your YouTube channel. Is that right?

    6. GSGary Stevenson53:37

       It's 820,000. Yeah.

    7. DPDaniel Priestley53:37

       Right? It's 820, right?

    8. GSGary Stevenson53:37

       (laughs)

    9. DPDaniel Priestley53:37

       So it's going up fast. I could have one of my analysts at a consulting company do a valuation of your brand and do a valuation of your YouTube channel. We could say, "This is a fast growth media company, and it's worth 11 million." All right? So we could come up with a forecast and a projection, and we say, "Gary's Economics is actually a new fast growth media brand. It's worth 11 million." Now, your channel, now you have to pay 100 grand a year in extra taxes because you're a millionaire.

    10. GSGary Stevenson54:05

        Well, so 1% on wealth above 10 million, on 11 million is gonna be 10 grand in taxes.

    11. DPDaniel Priestley54:10

        But you're saying only on the part above?

    12. GSGary Stevenson54:12

        That's how taxes work.

    13. DPDaniel Priestley54:13

        Okay, so it's not on everything, it's... Okay, so it's a, it's a marginal tax

    14. SBSteven Bartlett54:16

        Yeah, that's how taxes work, Dan. (laughs)

    15. DPDaniel Priestley54:17

        That's it. It's a... So, okay, so, but is it fair that... Like, who gets to decide what wealth is wealth and what it's worth? Because wealth, let's just, hear me out, wealth is a, a technical term for unrealized gains, right? It's not real. Uh, y- you know, someone buys a house for 20 grand and it's worth 200 grand, uh, th- they've still got the same house, but now they've got wealth. Um, if someone starts a business and a tiny little seed investor puts in a little angel investment, uh, now they've got wealth on paper. But who gets to say what is wealth? Um, like, for example-... if you introduce wealth taxes, theoretically, that will actually reduce the value of wealth of things anyway, because things in- inside that economy are now subject to a disadvantage, so therefore, investors will be unlikely to invest in them to a certain point. And also, people start cutting and dodging and weaving and ducking and weaving. So they say, "Oh, our UK operation's worth 10 million, so we're now gonna start a second company over in some other country and make sure that cun- that's where the wealth accumulates." So it's incredibly difficult, 'cause it is just unrealized gains.

    16. GSGary Stevenson55:23

        I know, I know it's difficult.

    17. DPDaniel Priestley55:24

        Yeah.

    18. GSGary Stevenson55:25

        I know, I know these guys have the best accountants. I know, I know it's difficult. I know it's-

    19. DPDaniel Priestley55:28

        So what if there was an easier solution?

    20. GSGary Stevenson55:30

        If there was an easier solution, I would support that, you know what I mean, like-

    21. DPDaniel Priestley55:33

        See, it's called, it's called economic freedom. The Economic Freedom Index-

    22. GSGary Stevenson55:35

        Yeah, okay, whoa.

    23. DPDaniel Priestley55:36

        Just, can I show you is-

    24. GSGary Stevenson55:37

        Just tell the viewers that. Give them more economic freedom-

    25. DPDaniel Priestley55:39

        Yeah.

    26. GSGary Stevenson55:39

        ... and then they'll be rich.

    27. DPDaniel Priestley55:40

        Yeah, so this, this diagram here basically says the most free countries have less than 10% poverty, in fact, less than 7% poverty. As soon as you reduce economic freedom, it jumps to 30% poverty. You reduce economic freedom again, and it jumps up to huge, huge amounts of poverty. So these countries here are the least economically free, and these countries are the most economically free. The countries that get in the way of your economic freedom have more poverty, and the countries that let people make decisions for their own life have less.

    28. GSGary Stevenson56:07

        So what you're saying is if the governments of our countries cut taxes on us, the three multimillionaires sitting at this table, that will improve the lives of the ordinary British and American worker-

    29. DPDaniel Priestley56:18

        I'll give you a real-life example.

    30. GSGary Stevenson56:19

        ... whose can't afford to feed their kids?
16. 57:51 – 59:56

    Where Is the Biggest Amount of Money Going?

    1. GSGary Stevenson57:51

       now?

    2. DPDaniel Priestley57:51

       The f-

    3. GSGary Stevenson57:51

       Who ... Where is the wealth going, Daniel?

    4. DPDaniel Priestley57:53

       The viewers w-

    5. GSGary Stevenson57:53

       Where is the wealth going? Who has the wealth now? Who is getting richer?

    6. DPDaniel Priestley57:56

       I'll tell you who-

    7. GSGary Stevenson57:57

       Who's getting the wealth that is lost by our viewers?

    8. DPDaniel Priestley57:59

       I'll tell you where the biggest amounts of money are going. The biggest amounts of money, uh, since the pandemic, uh, 11 trillion went just to the value of seven companies that own tech, technology. So the biggest seven companies in the USA, 11 trillion has gone down-

    9. GSGary Stevenson58:13

       And you don't want their billionaire owners to pay more tax?

    10. DPDaniel Priestley58:16

        Well, would that help the UK?

    11. GSGary Stevenson58:18

        Well, if you use that money to reduce tax on working people-

    12. DPDaniel Priestley58:20

        I'm just concerned.

    13. GSGary Stevenson58:20

        ... then it w- it would help, yeah.

    14. DPDaniel Priestley58:21

        They own shares in the USA. They're US citizens.

    15. GSGary Stevenson58:24

        Yes.

    16. DPDaniel Priestley58:25

        So that doesn't help us here, and I-

    17. GSGary Stevenson58:27

        Yeah, but it would help the American consumer, and then we could export to the American consumer.

    18. DPDaniel Priestley58:30

        Yeah.

    19. GSGary Stevenson58:30

        And it would mean the American consumer has money, and then it will show British people how much you can achieve by taxing the super-rich. Then we can tax-

    20. DPDaniel Priestley58:36

        You ask where the ... Yeah.

    21. GSGary Stevenson58:36

        ... raise tax on our super-rich here.

    22. DPDaniel Priestley58:37

        You ask, uh-

    23. GSGary Stevenson58:37

        And then what I want is these guys to be taxed so much that they start to sell assets, and then ordinary British people can buy assets again. Because what I want is our viewers to be able to own things-

    24. SBSteven Bartlett58:47

        Oh, absolutely.

    25. GSGary Stevenson58:47

        ... to be able to own their own homes.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett58:49

        C- C- I, uh, when I h- hear this, um, I admittedly don't know as much about these issues as you guys do, but when I hear that there's these seven tech companies in the US, my brain goes, "Can't we have one here?"

    27. DPDaniel Priestley59:00

        Yeah, yeah.

    28. SBSteven Bartlett59:01

        "Can't we h- start ..." And then so my brain goes-

    29. DPDaniel Priestley59:04

        Yeah.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett59:04

        ... "How ... What conditions do we have to create-"
17. 59:56 – 1:04:34

    How to Bring Big Tech Companies and Entrepreneurs to the UK

    1. SBSteven Bartlett59:56

    2. DPDaniel Priestley59:56

       Mm-hmm.

    3. GSGary Stevenson59:56

       So y- If you want businesses to, to thrive, you don't need just a good environment for entrepreneurs. You also need people to have money that they can spend.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:07

       Mm-hmm.

    5. GSGary Stevenson1:00:09

       And we are in a country where increasingly most of the people out there have almost nothing left over at the end of the month.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:15

       So-

    7. GSGary Stevenson1:00:15

       They can barely pay the bills.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:16

       Those companies are selling globally, right? So they don't need-

    9. GSGary Stevenson1:00:19

       Yeah.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:19

        ... any particular company to do well. They just, they sell to anywhere, so like OpenAI, ChatGPT, we're all using that bloody product and paying our $20, $30 a month.

    11. GSGary Stevenson1:00:27

        Or, yeah, where do they actually get their money from, right? They get the money from selling data to, to, to the rich, right?

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:31

        Uh, my point was making the environment more friendly for entrepreneurs, 'cause when I start a company, I am at a ... I can't explain the disadvantage I'm at at the moment if I start that kind of company here.

    13. GSGary Stevenson1:00:41

        In the UK.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:41

        There's no investors, and then all the talent seems to flock over to San Francisco, so the, the guys that built the b-

    15. GSGary Stevenson1:00:47

        But, um-

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:47

        The British guys that built a c- an AI company called Fixer, which I was gonna invest in, all British lads from London. They went over to San Francisco, they're like 25-year-olds, they've just raised at a 60 million valuation. They're in this room-... this building in San Francisco full of entrepreneurs-

    17. GSGary Stevenson1:01:01

        Yeah.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:01

        ... and they're pumping knowledge and capital into this room.

    19. GSGary Stevenson1:01:04

        Well, w- with all due respect, Steven, you're not a great example for the fact that it's impossible to start an, a successful online brand in the UK.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:11

        Facts. Um, but I also realize that-

    21. GSGary Stevenson1:01:13

        And, and the problem of, of-

    22. DPDaniel Priestley1:01:14

        But he started when things were different.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:16

        But I, I also realize-

    24. GSGary Stevenson1:01:17

        Yeah.

    25. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:17

        ... i- I don't like using personal examples because there's a huge amount of privilege and-

    26. GSGary Stevenson1:01:21

        Okay. Is there a ChatGPT in Germany?

    27. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:24

        No.

    28. DPDaniel Priestley1:01:24

        No.

    29. GSGary Stevenson1:01:24

        Is there a ChatGPT in, in France?

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:26

        No.
18. 1:04:34 – 1:10:20

    Are Tax Evasions Causing Issues With NHS, Education, and Higher Crime?

    1. GSGary Stevenson1:04:34

       to deal with that.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:34

       My friend sold his company in the UK, it's a company everybody knows, um, and he... I remember him saying to me at the time, it was in the middle of the pandemic, he had got this big exit event, I think he'd made 300 million, and he goes, "I'm off." I go, "Where are you going?" He goes, "I'm gonna go to Dubai and Monaco and live between the two." And I e- I said to him, "Explain to me why." He goes, "Well, the amount of tax I'd have to pay in the UK is equivalent to me paying 20 million rent in the UK for the next six or s- seven years, which you'd have to stay here for." So, he, he went, and he pops back in every now and then, but it meant that he could keep that 150 million whatever tax he would pay, never had to pay it to the UK, is living this high-flying life now in Dubai, drops into Monaco every now and then, um, and I remember him saying to me, "Well, Steve, I'd have to pay 20 million rent a year to live here."

    3. GSGary Stevenson1:05:18

       Mm.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:18

       And he went on to say, "The UK j- product, it just isn't worth it." He goes, "Crime... I'm gonna get my Rolex robbed off me."

    5. GSGary Stevenson1:05:24

       Yeah.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:24

       He goes, um, "The healthcare system isn't the best. The education system isn't necessarily the best." And the particular one was crime, which is I'll get my... I'll get, I'll get mugged walking through-

    7. GSGary Stevenson1:05:34

       Yeah.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:34

       ... London streets.

    9. GSGary Stevenson1:05:35

       Steven, if you allow British people who own 300 million pounds of British assets to technically live in Monaco and not pay tax, then you will get crime, and you will have dirty streets, and you will have a bad healthcare system, and you will have education. Because if you give all of the wealth to a group of people who you do not tax, there will be nothing left to provide things like healthcare and education for ordinary people.

    10. DPDaniel Priestley1:05:56

        These people-

    11. GSGary Stevenson1:05:56

        It's not unconnected.

    12. DPDaniel Priestley1:05:57

        These people are not technically living there, they're moving out. My friends have moved out of the country. They don't come back to the UK. They've left and they leave with their companies.

    13. GSGary Stevenson1:06:04

        So they built a company here-

    14. DPDaniel Priestley1:06:06

        No, they've been... They typically build globally-

    15. GSGary Stevenson1:06:07

        ... and we let them leave and pay no tax?

    16. DPDaniel Priestley1:06:08

        They typically build globally business.

    17. GSGary Stevenson1:06:09

        Okay.

    18. DPDaniel Priestley1:06:10

        It's not that they pay no-

    19. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:10

        It, it was, it was a global business that-

    20. GSGary Stevenson1:06:12

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    21. DPDaniel Priestley1:06:12

        Also, they don't pay no tax, they pay extortionate amounts of tax, right? Anyone who's here is paying extraordinary taxes, more than they've ever paid before. 1% pays 30%, 10% pays 60% of-

    22. GSGary Stevenson1:06:25

        Yeah.

    23. DPDaniel Priestley1:06:25

        ... 1.2 trillion a year worth of government spending.

    24. GSGary Stevenson1:06:27

        So this guy who owns 300 million, how much tax do you reckon he's paid in his life?

    25. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:30

        I have no idea. I have no idea. His business was global, but his biggest customer was the US, so-

Episode duration: 2:26:14