Andrew Bustamante: How CIA spies shatter invisible rules

1. 0:00 – 1:56

   Intro

   1. ABAndrew Bustamante0:00

      The majority of people, they're still seeing the world through a lens that was built for them, and they want more, they just don't know how to do it. So what I teach, which is what CIA teaches, is how to see the world in the way it really is. Here's what I'm gonna tell you.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett0:14

      Andrew Bustamante is back. A former CIA officer and founder of Everyday Spy.

   3. ABAndrew Bustamante0:19

      A company on a mission to help you get anything you want in life with the skills the CIA taught him. We don't know the recipe for success. Our society doesn't teach us the plan, the framework, the process. That's what CIA did for us. They just taught us a simple system. And one gentleman, one of the frameworks that we taught him helped him get a $32,000 raise. We had one person say, "I followed your framework. I won over the interviewer, and now I have this job that I would've never gotten otherwise." But I'm not surprised when they happen because, of course, the recipes work because they were refined in the center of CIA. So first, we have an exercise called Get Quiet, and in a Get Quiet exercise, all you do is just ... The reason that we do that is because we have the informational advantage going into any situation.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett1:01

      Interesting.

   5. ABAndrew Bustamante1:01

      Then there's The 4 C's of Building Influence Rapidly. So if you wanna build influence, the first thing we have to do is ... And now you actually take the action to get what you want.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett1:09

      So what about persuasion, then? How do I persuade somebody?

   7. ABAndrew Bustamante1:12

      Persuasion is a process that's much easier. It really is as simple as ... Finally, the secret sauce at CIA that we know that most people don't understand is that ... Now, you can do whatever you need to improve yourself and your life.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett1:29

      The Diary of a CEO raffle is about to close. Anyone that subscribes to The Diary of a CEO before we hit seven million subscribers, which is probably gonna be in a couple of days time, you will be included in the raffle, and on the day we hit seven million subscribers, we are giving away a lot of money-can't-buy prizes to all of you. So hit the subscribe button, get in before seven million, and I'll announce the prizes and the winners in the comments below when we hit seven million subscribers.

2. 1:56 – 4:35

   What is Andrew doing now?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett1:57

      Andrew, what is it you're doing in this season of your life?

   2. ABAndrew Bustamante2:03

      You know, it's an interesting question. I actually just lost my grandmother recently, in the last week or so. And my grandmother was one of the two women that raised me. I didn't have a father, I mentioned that to you the last time I was here. Um, and it was a moment that struck me because mortality became very real. It makes everything clearer. It makes you realize what actually matters and what doesn't matter. It, it shows you that the days that we have aren't actually guaranteed to us, even though we take them for granted every day. I don't know, I don't know if my flight home is gonna actually happen. I don't know if I'm gonna step out of this studio and get hit by a car. I don't know if my child isn't gonna get hit by a car playing in the driveway tomorrow, because life is so fragile and we don't think about it until we watch its fragility dissolve in front of us. We hear about tragedy, but tragedy's always happening somewhere else. It's, it's so real and yet we don't realize it every day.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett3:09

      It's a good thing we don't.

   4. ABAndrew Bustamante3:10

      (laughs) That's, that's the truth. That's how it feels right now for me as well. I kind of wish I could go back to being ignorant again. It's that Matrix red pill/blue pill moment where I kind of wish I could go back in and forget the reality or, and, and forget that mortality is reality.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett3:26

      And so does that change your, your priorities in life in any way?

   6. ABAndrew Bustamante3:31

      It does. Like, the biggest way that it's affecting me right now is really with business, because, you know, we had a conversation not too long ago where I was very focused on trying to triple the size of the business this year-

   7. SBSteven Bartlett3:42

      Mm-hmm.

   8. ABAndrew Bustamante3:43

      ... because we had been tripling the year before and we had tripled the year before that, and it became this arbitrary number. This, this scorecard where I wanted to continue having this achievement. And then what I found is that scaling a business is no easy thing, and the struggles that come from scaling were consuming the majority of my focus all the time, until this moment happened with my grandmother. And then all of a sudden I realized I have a team of people who can scale the business. I don't have to scale it. I just have to empower the team to do what the team does. And my job is very different. My job is to enable, empower, encourage, direct, lead, manage their efforts, but it's their job to grow it. I can take some of that time and put it into the people that matter to me, the people that surround me, the people who have made me who I am,

3. 4:35 – 7:16

   What is every day spy?

   1. ABAndrew Bustamante4:35

      the people like the woman on the couch that I was visiting in her deathbed.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett4:38

      The business you're referring to is called Everyday Spy, right?

   3. ABAndrew Bustamante4:40

      Yes, sir.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett4:41

      What is Everyday Spy? What is the mission of that business?

   5. ABAndrew Bustamante4:44

      The mission of Everyday Spy is to use spy education to break barriers for everyone willing to learn.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett4:51

      And what is spy education?

   7. ABAndrew Bustamante4:53

      Spy education is anything from specific spy skills, cognitive skills, physical skills. It can be breaking myths about what spies are and what spies are not, b- bursting conspiracy theories. Teaching spy, uh, processes and frameworks to everyone from entrepreneurs to business owners and CEOs so that they can use those same frameworks to improve their leadership, to improve their sales, to improve their revenue or their organization.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett5:18

      Do you um, do you, do you ever have a bit of a ... You, you're a guy that thinks quite big picture about things, um, and sometimes thinks a level above everybody else. Do you, um, do you think the people you teach these things to know what they're looking for in life? Do you think they actually know what they're aiming at?

   9. ABAndrew Bustamante5:33

      No, I don't. And I'll tell you why. Because I don't think that the majority of people who learn from Everyday Spy see the world in the way it really is. I think they're still seeing the world through a, a lens that was built for them. Have you ever looked through, uh, a, a window in an old cabin or in an old house that's kind of hazy? It's, uh, maybe it's stained or it's dirty or the dirt is so thick on it that it doesn't wash off. Have you ever seen a window like that?

   10. SBSteven Bartlett6:02

       Yeah.... my old shed at home when I was a kid growing up.

   11. ABAndrew Bustamante6:05

       So you're inside the shed-

   12. SBSteven Bartlett6:07

       Mm-hmm.

   13. ABAndrew Bustamante6:07

       ... and you're looking out onto a sunny day. And you know it's a sunny, beautiful forest on the other side of the window. You know it is, but that's not what you see through the window. I feel like that's how many of our high-achieving brothers and sisters feel. They know it's a sunny forest on the other side, but school and university and working for somebody else and growing their business has created this hazy glass, and it's just you can't trust what you see through the glass. You know that what the glass is showing you isn't real, but you also can't prove it because you can't step outside of the glass. You're inside the shed. So a lot of what I try to do with Everyday Spy is just shatter the glass because you don't need the glass to be between you and the real world. And that's what it felt like for me when CIA trained me how to be a field officer. I don't feel like they took me out of the shed. I don't feel like they cleaned the glass. I feel like what they did is they just shattered the glass, and there I was looking at the world for what it really was. And it all made sense until I started meeting other people who were still looking through the glass, and there's no way to teach them otherwi- or there's no way to convince them otherwise.

4. 7:16 – 10:02

   Your perspective on the world before the CI

   1. ABAndrew Bustamante7:16

      The only thing you can do is teach them to break through the barrier themselves.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett7:20

      So now I can understand that. Can you tell me what y- your perspective of the world was before and after the shattered glass?

   3. ABAndrew Bustamante7:28

      When I was growing up, uh, all through high school, I went to the Air Force Academy, which is a, a military school that you have to get accepted on scholarship to go to. Even getting accepted to CIA itself, every step of the way, I believed that achievement came from doing what you were told better than anybody else so that you could be empirically better than the competition. Like, that's what I believed. But what I found along the way was oftentimes that was true, but oftentimes it wasn't. Sometimes people who had no business being next to me in a race at the Air Force Academy, on the college teams, at the CIA, sometimes the people to my left and to my right had no business being there. They just were the son of somebody influential. They were the daughter of somebody important. They had money. They had opportunity. They were a foreigner. Who knows? But it wasn't always merit-based, but everything had always taught me that it was merit-based, that the best jobs go to the people with the best scores who go to the best universities. Like, that's what I was taught. But that wasn't really the truth. The richest people weren't the smartest people. The most successful people weren't the hardest workers. And that was when, as a kid even, I started feeling like there's a forest on the other side, but all I see is this picture that doesn't seem to make sense. So then when I got to CIA and CIA put me through their, their field tradecraft course, FTC, which is often referred to as the farm, what they did at the field tradecraft course is they said, "Society is conditioned to believe a certain way because society needs to be a giant economic machine." We all live inside of a giant machine. We are conditioned through the education process, through the, the industrial process, through the church process to fall into a hierarchy that we believe is meritorious, that is a meritocracy, so that hard work and obedience and loyalty gets rewarded because the only way that the government stays in power of a large group of people is if there's a predictable system.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett9:42

      Is if they believe there's a system.

   5. ABAndrew Bustamante9:44

      And since a system is really nothing more than a belief system, all you have to do to step outside of the system is stop believing or believe in a different system. So what CIA teaches us to do is find the people who question the system enough that they're open to being taught a different system,

5. 10:02 – 12:37

   Why the CIA chose Andrew?

   1. ABAndrew Bustamante10:02

      and then we teach them the system of espionage or treachery.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett10:06

      So they, they chose you because you were a bit of a defiant personality or thinker?

   3. ABAndrew Bustamante10:12

      I would say-

   4. SBSteven Bartlett10:12

      Or on the cusp of, or potential of being?

   5. ABAndrew Bustamante10:14

      I would say it differently only because defiance as a, as a term by itself means that you just reject everything. Instead, it was more of, like, a curiosity. I was still very loyal, very loyal to my country, very loyal to the idea of some sort of authority figure. I was still an individual that had a history of childhood trauma that turned me into a person that needed external validation, but I also chose where that external validation came from. So I was... it was kind of the right amount of trauma to be able to make me loyal to a specific organization, whereas some people who are truly defiant aren't loyal to anyone, right? They defy everyone.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett10:52

      So the CIA told you that the world is...

   7. ABAndrew Bustamante10:57

      Predictable.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett10:59

      But also the way that you explained it made it seem like it was a bit of a conspiracy.

   9. ABAndrew Bustamante11:02

      Not a conspiracy, but absolutely a system. You gotta... A conspiracy means that there's some sort of... A conspiracy insinuates that there's some sort of negative intention.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett11:14

       Mm-hmm.

   11. ABAndrew Bustamante11:14

       There is no negative intention. In order for there to be a society at all, in order for there to be structure and lawfulness, there needs to be a system. And in order to create the system, we have to intentionally continually repeat and program the system. What is a business? A business is nothing more than a series of predictable reinforced processes and systems that yield a predictable outcome. Why do we think a government is anything different? Why would we think that society is anything different? If you really look at what the church does, if you really look at what Harley-Davidson does, it's essentially the same thing. Find people who believe in an ideology, bring them in, give them a framework to believe in that ideology. The church is good and evil, heaven and hell. Harley-Davidson is freedom and individuality. And then you just give them a system to think about it.One wears crosses, one wears eagles. One meets on Sundays, one meets on Tuesdays at the local road bar. One goes on, you know, civic duty to collect trash, the other goes on multi-hour road trips. But in, um, in all cases, they market to the young, they market to the middle-aged, they market to the very old. Their senior members bring in junior members. They have clubs. They have everything, right? They're two separate

6. 12:37 – 18:52

   Is there anything we can do once we know there's a system

   1. ABAndrew Bustamante12:37

      subsections of society, which is why we call them subcultures.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett12:41

      So what... Now I understand that there's a system that I'm part of and it's, again, it's not malicious in terms of its intent. It just is what it is. It's how the world functions, it's how the country that I'm in, um, operates. And it's required for there to be stability. Now, there's awareness, but is there, is there any benefit in me doing anything about it? Is there anything I can do about it to, to make my life better?

   3. ABAndrew Bustamante13:04

      There's absolutely things that you can do about it. Uh, you, you skipped over the awareness part as if it wasn't substantial.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett13:10

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   5. ABAndrew Bustamante13:10

      The first thing I would say is awareness of the system is quite a substantial step, because most of us are not aware of the system. I was certainly not aware of the system. I suspected something was different. I suspected maybe there was more than I understood. That's the whole idea of looking through faded glass at a clear forest. You know there's a forest, but you don't know how to get there.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett13:32

      Mm-hmm.

   7. ABAndrew Bustamante13:33

      And you don't know why everybody else is standing in the shed if there's a forest right out there. There's just this... There's this in- this discomfort 'cause you're like, "There s- there should be something more. I feel like there's something more, but everybody seems so happy right here except me. I'm looking out this window feeling like there's something more." The reality is most people don't look out the window.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett13:52

      What is it that everybody in the shed believes?

   9. ABAndrew Bustamante13:55

      That's what's so interesting. I think most people in the shed believe that the shed is a good thing. We need the shed. The shed keeps us warm when it's cold outside. It keeps us cool inside when it's hot outside. It protects us from the rain. It keeps the wind away. We need the shed. That's what most people, I think, start to believe about whatever shed they're born into. "I need this church. I need this neighborhood. I need these friends. I need to be popular in school," like, because everybody else is after the same thing. "I need good grades." "Why do you think you need good grades?" "'Cause my mom said I needed good grades." Well, we don't question it any further than that. We don't question, "Why do you think your mom thinks you need good grades?" Right? And then when you look at the hierarchy of society, there's, there's an actual anthropological pyramid that defines society, right? And it breaks into three levels: individualism at the bottom level, tribalism in the center level, and then the state at the top level, because the most advanced version of society is the state. It maximizes the contribution of each individual by forcing shared policy down all the way from top to bottom. So all people have to obey the state, but in exchange for their obedience, the state provides resources to all people-

   10. SBSteven Bartlett15:17

       Mm-hmm.

   11. ABAndrew Bustamante15:17

       ... like clean water and loans and, uh, car loans and business loans and police forces and public schools. So we are... We believe that this cabin is needed. It's the best cabin. It's the only cabin.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett15:33

       Is that wrong?

   13. ABAndrew Bustamante15:34

       I think if you look at the world as it is, there's a lotta different cabins out there. Our cabin is quite different than the China cabin. The China cabin is quite different than the Russia cabin, right? The UK cabin is very different than the American cabin. So if you follow logic, the fact that different cabins exist at all would suggest that there is no best cabin, and then if there is no best cabin, then do we even need a cabin or perhaps there's a different option that's better?

   14. SBSteven Bartlett16:03

       Is there a different option that's better in your opinion?

   15. ABAndrew Bustamante16:06

       I haven't found one yet outside of living in a cabin and being the one that understands there's more, 'cause then you get all the benefits of the cabin, but you're also the one that knows that sometimes it's worth it to step outside.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett16:19

       Yeah, I th- uh, in your analogy, I was thinking, in fact, it's okay for there to be a cabin 'cause I kinda need there to be a cabin 'cause you know what I like? Roads and healthcare and police. (laughs)

   17. ABAndrew Bustamante16:28

       (laughs)

   18. SBSteven Bartlett16:28

       But if... But if you can be one of the people that realizes you are in a cabin and that the rules of the cabin aren't actually, um-

   19. ABAndrew Bustamante16:35

       Law rules.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett16:35

       ... law, if e- they, they're, they're, they're just made-up rules, then you can bend them in certain ways to live the life that you wanna live. And I think in many respects, entrepreneurship is kind of one of those things, because some of the narratives that you described there of thinking grades mattered were the narratives that nearly held me back in my life 'cause I was not doing well in school. My brother's where everyone else was and I nearly fell into the trap which you learn in the shed, which is the people that get A's are gonna be rich and happy.

   21. ABAndrew Bustamante17:02

       Mm-hmm.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett17:02

       This is the, like, um, unspoken word. And then if you get, like, an E and a D, you're gonna be poor and probably not that happy and probably gonna live in a small house, and you're probably, um, gonna struggle. And that's, like, a narrative, and through labeling theory, you can come to believe that as the truth and then play that out in your life. But I always think the biggest harm of... I now... And I had a suspicion back then that the biggest harm of getting, like, an E in my exam was believing that I was an E, and they're two very different things. Like, I can get an E, but it doesn't make me an E. But in the- in the shed, it does make you an E. It's hard to-

   23. ABAndrew Bustamante17:33

       Because everybody else labels you by what you perform-

   24. SBSteven Bartlett17:36

       Yeah.

   25. ABAndrew Bustamante17:36

       ... inside the shed that defines them.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett17:37

       And then I self-label. I then t- start to tell myself in my self-esteem that I am an E grade.

   27. ABAndrew Bustamante17:43

       Mm-hmm.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett17:44

       And then I show up like an E grade, which they've proven through labeling theory. You can tell someone they're something or you can remind them of a stereotype that applies to them, and they will immediately perform worse on a test, whatever that stereotype relates to, so. But entrepreneurship for me was saying, "Do you know what? I'm gonna drop out of... I'm gonna get- leave school, I'm gonna drop out of university, and I'm gonna try and f- like, send a bunch of emails and figure out life myself outside of the system," 'cause the system was never gonna get me where I needed to go.

   29. ABAndrew Bustamante18:07

       Mm-hmm.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett18:08

       If, if I had followed the system, I would still be working in the call center that I was when I was 19.
7. 18:52 – 20:07

   The importance of awareness in our society

   1. SBSteven Bartlett18:52

      Um, what is the fir- so you're, the first thing you're talking about is shattering the glass.

   2. ABAndrew Bustamante18:56

      The first thing is awareness.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett18:57

      Yeah.

   4. ABAndrew Bustamante18:57

      You have to be aware-

   5. SBSteven Bartlett18:58

      That you're in a shed.

   6. ABAndrew Bustamante18:59

      ... that you're in a shed. And you have to be aware that you're choosing to be in the shed, right? You can always leave. This is an argument I have so often with people who are trapped in, in the wrong mindset, right? I don't even know what the right psychological term is, because I don't live in a world of academic psychology. But there are people who believe that they don't have a choice. And in the United States, for example, we have 50 states. There are some people in the state of Florida who feel like they can't leave the state of Florida.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett19:32

      Because?

   8. ABAndrew Bustamante19:34

      They, they think it's because they don't have enough money, they think it's because it's, it's, uh, the drive is too far, there isn't a support network on the other side, the bureaucratic hurdles of trying to change your residency and get a new driver's license is too much, the taxes are too high to pay to move from a non-state, a non-tax state to a state tax state. So they all have reasons and their reasons are grounded in fact, but the value that they put on the fact, the, the value of the challenge is greater than the value of the reward

8. 20:07 – 24:20

   Living in a state of your own barriers

   1. ABAndrew Bustamante20:07

      in their point of view, in their perspective. And in reality, it's the other way around.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett20:11

      You, um, you just reminded me of a video that changed my life. I'm gonna play this video for you, okay? Um, it's a very, very short video, but when you talked about people living in a state, living in a situation where they don't think they can leave, this video came to mind. Um-

   3. ABAndrew Bustamante20:25

      Oh.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett20:26

      They just get an ant, and you can do this with basically any small creature, and you get a B-Biro or a pen and just draw a circle around it.

   5. ABAndrew Bustamante20:33

      Look at that.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett20:33

      And it will not, it will not leave the, the circle. And I watched this video many years ago of just this ant trapped in the circle, and they, the guy drawing the circle around the ant just makes the circle smaller and smaller and sma- oh, it left there, and it will basically remain trapped, and it was in a-

   7. ABAndrew Bustamante20:48

      Wow.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett20:48

      When I watched it, I thought, "Do you know what? I'm doing that for myself in my own life." So the ant remains trapped, they make it smaller, the ant won't, um, leave the circle, but what's interesting here, right, is the ant is, uh, eventually figuring out-

   9. ABAndrew Bustamante20:59

      Yeah.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett20:59

       ... that the, the box-

   11. ABAndrew Bustamante21:00

       That it's just a circle.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett21:00

       That it's just a circle, that it's like just a shed. And when I saw that, the first thing I asked myself was, "In what ways have I drawn an imaginary circle around myself?"

   13. ABAndrew Bustamante21:12

       I think the more important question is oftentimes when did the imaginary circle start? Who drew the first circle? 'Cause it wasn't you. If you've ever seen a child, if you've ever seen an infant, a toddler, they are limitless. They, they know no bounds, they, they don't understand anything about the world around them. They, they don't know how their body feels, so they don't know whether they're hungry or whether they're gassy or whether they're urinating. They cry at everything and they're constantly squirming. They have no context, so all the context that they gain, they gain through absorption. We create the context for them. We create the idea of this is bedtime, we create the idea of this is what a healthy habit is, brushing your teeth, washing your hands, whatever else. We create this is home and this is where you can walk around openly, but once you go out this door into the front yard, the front yard is not home anymore, and now you can't, you can't go anywhere you want, you have to stay here. So somewhere somebody started drawing circles before we ever drew them. All we started doing was then believing that the circles were more permanent than they really were.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett22:22

       And the way to understand that it's not permanent is to-

   15. ABAndrew Bustamante22:25

       Is-

   16. SBSteven Bartlett22:25

       ... step out.

   17. ABAndrew Bustamante22:26

       ... to step out. But stepping out does two things to us simultaneously. One, it feels uncomfortable, because nobody else is stepping out. And two, it feels wrong. Why does it feel wrong? Because we've been conditioned to believe we have to stay in the circle. This is why I love my company. This is why I love our mission of teaching spy skills to break barriers, because everybody loves the idea of a spy, but when you think about what a spy does, nobody actually likes what a spy does. Nobody likes the fact that spies steal, nobody likes the fact that spies lie, but for some reason, they still like the idea of a spy. And that's why James Bond and Jason Bourne and, and spy shows are so popular. What's happening is we come, we come into this place where what we want and what we're told we're supposed to want clash, because you know what we really want is an opportunity, and we want an opportunity so bad that we're willing to cheat to get the opportunity, but we don't wanna admit that we're willing to cheat to get the opportunity. We want an advantage, but we don't want to believe that our advantage hurts other people. So somehow we want to all move forward with, with equanimity and everybody does better, and that's just not the way that anything in nature actually works. And what entrepreneurs figure out when they're successful is that you can cheat and you can get away with cheating, and when you get away with cheating, it just gives permission to everybody else who was too afraid to cheat, and then you have first mover advantage in the marketplace and they copy you,

9. 24:20 – 26:24

   'Cheating' in the context of cheating

   1. ABAndrew Bustamante24:20

      and all of a sudden that isn't cheating anymore.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett24:24

      And cheating in the con- 'cause cheating can, you know, it's a bit of a loaded word, right? Well, what do you mean when you, you talk about cheating in the context of business?

   3. ABAndrew Bustamante24:32

      I'm talking about, like, an unfair advantage of any sort.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett24:34

      Okay.

   5. ABAndrew Bustamante24:34

      Right? Think about when... Do you remember when MP3s first came out?

   6. SBSteven Bartlett24:38

      Yes. Well, I, I had one when I was a kid.

   7. ABAndrew Bustamante24:41

      So the... an MP3 player?

   8. SBSteven Bartlett24:42

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   9. ABAndrew Bustamante24:43

      So MP3s, as in music files-

   10. SBSteven Bartlett24:45

       Mm-hmm.

   11. ABAndrew Bustamante24:45

       ... I remember when they first came out, it was the, the market went chaotic because you could get them off of the internet for free, which meant that the musicians didn't get paid for it, and that turned into, I think it was called-

   12. SBSteven Bartlett24:57

       Ah.

   13. ABAndrew Bustamante24:58

       ... Napster or Napster-

   14. SBSteven Bartlett24:59

       Yeah. LimeWire, yeah.

   15. ABAndrew Bustamante25:00

       Yeah. There were so many of these different databases where you could just pull free music and it, it was crazy. Before that, there were CDs. There was even a brief period where there were mini discs, right? People just kept making improvements. We call them disruptors now because we found a way to glorify the word cheat-

   16. SBSteven Bartlett25:19

       Mm-hmm.

   17. ABAndrew Bustamante25:19

       ... and make it into something good, so now there's disruptors. But all they were doing was taking advantage of something that other people weren't taking advantage of, a new form of technology. Well, how did they get access to a new form of technology? Because they got investors. Well, how did they get investors? They knew a guy who knew a guy. They shook a hand. Dad at the golf club maybe. They had five minutes with the right guy on the right elevator. Who knows? But the people who don't get investors look at the people who do get investors and say, "That's not fair." That's just the way it is. That's the way life is. You know what's not fair? It's not fair that some people are born into a house where the cabin, where the, the shed that they're born into is a $300,000 a year shed, and other people are born into a shed that's a $30,000 a year shed. That's not fair. Nothing is fair. So once you accept that nothing is fair, that also means there isn't really anything that's unfair. You can do whatever you need to improve yourself and your life.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett26:18

       So I'm in the shed and I've just, I've listened to you so I've realized that I, I am in a shed and that the

10. 26:24 – 28:37

    How to break free of the system

    1. SBSteven Bartlett26:24

       rules I've been conditioned to believe aren't necessarily, um... they're rules, but they're breakable rules, and I have every right to break them. What is, what do you think is step one beyond there, beyond the awareness?

    2. ABAndrew Bustamante26:37

       I'm gonna give you two answers because there's the reality of the answer, but then there's my preferred response, right? The reality of the answer is once people... the reality is that most people have already thought about what I'm saying. I'm just giving words and authenticity and credibility to what they already believe so they're ready for the next step and they just jump right in. They believe me. I appreciate it when people believe me, but I don't want people to believe me. What I want people to do is my preferred approach, which is to test the information, test what I'm saying, learn a framework that we teach at Everyday Spy, learn a framework that you and I talk about, put it into exercise. If it works, you just tested something. Now you can believe something. Now you can change your mindset and change your framework. But too often people just believe. I appreciate it when they believe me. It makes me feel good. But it's not what I'm trying to teach people to do. What I want people to do is actually test it.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett27:33

       Mm-hmm. Right.

    4. ABAndrew Bustamante27:33

       Test it and... because if they test it, they make it their own. D- if... here's the problem with every teacher I've ever had, with the exception of two or three. They tell you something is the facts, and then you know that at the end of the week you have to take a quiz on what they told you was the facts, and then you know that at the end of the semester you have to take an exam on what they told you was the facts. They don't ever teach you to test or question the facts. And we, we know at our age and our success level that history is written by the winners, but there's always two sides to history. And then when you think about the political, the religious, the personal ramifications of everything that happens, you realize there's multiple different versions of truth. There may only be one fact, but there's multiple versions of truth. So how do we... we're not even conditioned to learn to question the truth to find the fact. Instead, we're just taught that the truth that we're taught is the facts, and that's how we end up in a world like we have today where people can, can say whatever they wanna say and people believe them instead of testing what you hear to see if it really is worth

11. 28:37 – 30:07

    Knowledge, information & experience

    1. ABAndrew Bustamante28:37

       transitioning or transforming your belief system.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett28:40

       It sounds like you're making a distinction between, like, knowledge and belief.

    3. ABAndrew Bustamante28:43

       What, what we call information-

    4. SBSteven Bartlett28:45

       Information.

    5. ABAndrew Bustamante28:45

       ... and knowledge. Exactly right.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett28:47

       Oh, okay. So information is what, what someone might say to you, but then knowledge is what you actually know to be true.

    7. ABAndrew Bustamante28:51

       Correct. There's a flywheel that we have in the intelligence world, and it's a triangle, and the top of the triangle is information-

    8. SBSteven Bartlett28:58

       Mm-hmm.

    9. ABAndrew Bustamante28:58

       ... and then information flows into knowledge, and then knowledge flows into experience. So what happens is you learn information. From that information, you develop knowledge, and then you test that knowledge through experience, and what happens when you go out and take action in an experience? You get more information, which yields more knowledge, which you test through experience, which yields more information, and you have this very positive flywheel. That's how the intelligence cycle works. But what happens in society, what happens in a s- in a state system that requires people to become predictable and obedient and, and respectful and, uh, collegial, is they skip the experience part. They say, "This is information. This is knowledge. And here's more new information and here's more new knowledge," and they never give people the opportunity to test the knowledge for themselves.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett29:56

        So I'm breaking out the shed and I'm gonna try and test some of this information that I'm gonna learn today and in this conversation. Um, what is a good example of something that you've seen in your practice when working with people at the Everyday

12. 30:07 – 31:17

    Real life examples of how you've helped people

    1. SBSteven Bartlett30:07

       Spy has helped someone to change their life, like a framework that's, that typically helps people to change their life in the most profound way as it relates to business, sales, their career, whatever?

    2. ABAndrew Bustamante30:19

       One of the ones that jumps to mind right away is the, it's a simple framework about perspective versus perception-

    3. SBSteven Bartlett30:23

       Mm-hmm.

    4. ABAndrew Bustamante30:24

       ... and we may have mentioned this actually in our previous conversation, Steven. Uh, perception is what you believe to be true about the world around you.Perspective is what other people believe to be true about the world around them. So as I sit here looking at you, this is my perception. My perception is that I'm sitting in the center seat and you're sitting outside of me, and everything else is built around me at the center.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett30:50

       Mm-hmm.

    6. ABAndrew Bustamante30:51

       Well, guess what your perception is? The same thing. I am across the table from you, you're at the center, and everything in this room is built around you.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett30:58

       Mm-hmm.

    8. ABAndrew Bustamante30:59

       So our perceptions are never gonna be the same. So the only way that I can find common ground with you is to stop thinking about what's happening around me from my perception and start thinking from your perspective. Because then I get my perception plus your perception

13. 31:17 – 38:25

    How to train people to have perception and perspective

    1. ABAndrew Bustamante31:17

       combined. I get twice as much information to think through this specific situation.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett31:21

       Can you train that? Can you train-

    3. ABAndrew Bustamante31:23

       Absolutely.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett31:23

       ... someone to have both points of view?

    5. ABAndrew Bustamante31:24

       Absolutely. So here's, here's how... I mentioned that awareness is the first step, right? Really, we have a three-step process at CIA that we use when we teach spy skills to future spies, because that's all CIA is. CIA is a giant training engine that's constantly creating new spies, and then spies just go out and spy. But what CIA really does is train spies who then steal secrets and combine and compile those secrets to s- to share with, uh, with decision-makers on the Hill, right? CIA's system of teaching is a system where you educate first, you exercise second, and then you experience third. Remember that flywheel?

    6. SBSteven Bartlett32:03

       Mm-hmm.

    7. ABAndrew Bustamante32:03

       So you educate, that's your information. You exercise, that's where you turn information into knowledge. And then you experience, and that's where you actually go out and test the knowledge to see if the knowledge is still applicable in the world that you live in today. So those are the three steps. So whenever you're trying to get anyone to break a barrier, whenever you're trying to get anyone to transform, all you have to do is educate them, help them to exercise, which means practice what they learned in a controlled space, and then kick them out the door to go do it for themselves. It's like kicking a bird out of a nest.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett32:32

       So if I... Can you make this very real for me? 'Cause I wanna, I wanna be someone that can walk through the world and appreciate my perception of a situation, but also the other person's perspective. So if we just put this in the context of me here as a podcast host, how would I be able to implement this to become a better podcast host? Like understand the other person's perspective and the way that you're seeing the world?

    9. ABAndrew Bustamante32:53

       Absolutely. So we had a whole conversation before the cameras turned on.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett32:56

        Yeah.

    11. ABAndrew Bustamante32:56

        Right? Can you tell me five things that you remember about me that I shared during the time before the cameras turned on?

    12. SBSteven Bartlett33:04

        Yes.

    13. ABAndrew Bustamante33:04

        Go ahead.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett33:05

        Okay. You want me to say them?

    15. ABAndrew Bustamante33:06

        Yeah, absolutely.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett33:06

        'Cause we were talking about-

    17. ABAndrew Bustamante33:07

        It's private stuff, but tell me.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett33:09

        Okay, um, we were talking about your relationship, things you're going through at home. You said that in the last couple of days everything's changed because of the assassination attempt on Donald Trump. We talked about you used to live in an RV for a while, and you've just recently moved, um, across America to a, to a new place. You mentioned your kids as well.

    19. ABAndrew Bustamante33:30

        Give me specifics.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett33:31

        Oh, God, um-

    21. ABAndrew Bustamante33:32

        Your-

    22. SBSteven Bartlett33:32

        You said that you used to live in the RV with your kids and there's a, uh, they're varying ages. I think, I think one of them's s- did you say three years old?

    23. ABAndrew Bustamante33:41

        Close.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett33:42

        One of 'em was three years old or something.

    25. ABAndrew Bustamante33:43

        Young children. Five and one when we lived in the RV.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett33:45

        Five and one, shit, yeah, five and one.

    27. ABAndrew Bustamante33:46

        It's okay. You, you did great, right?

    28. SBSteven Bartlett33:48

        Mm-hmm.

    29. ABAndrew Bustamante33:49

        Those things that you were, that you recalled-

    30. SBSteven Bartlett33:51

        Mm-hmm.
14. 38:25 – 41:16

    Getting into someone else's perspective

    1. ABAndrew Bustamante38:25

       understanding that most people are coming in living in their own perception. Consider applying this to business, right? You are a coffee shop. Well, there's 500 other coffee shops. There's five other coffee shops just in- in two square miles of where your coffee shop is. So when you think about your own product, you think, "Well, my coffee is superior. It's from Ethiopia. We roast it here, and it smells great," and whatever else. Or you think, "My building is better because we have- we have local artists on the wall and we play local musicians." Like, right? Like, that's what they think. That's what the owner of the coffee shop thinks. But they don't stop to think about the customer who buys the coffee, 'cause the customer who buys the coffee is coming from somewhere and then going to somewhere, and the coffee shop is just one stop along the way. So if you really want to become the coffee shop that everybody wants to go to, you have to think about life through their eyes, through their perspective. Why are they drinking the coffee? Oh, they're drinking the coffee because they're a new mom. So then what else does a new mom need? What else does a new mom want when she goes to a coffee shop? Maybe she wants other moms to be there. Maybe she wants specials. Maybe she wants, uh, she wants to find little things to buy her kids. Who knows what? You can change your shop to fit your customer if you're open to their perspective. Otherwise, all you're doing is creating your own little circle, your own little shed.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett39:55

       So in terms of practical things that you do so that you can really tune into someone's perspective, is the most important one just listening?

    3. ABAndrew Bustamante40:04

       Yes, but there's a twist, because you also have to dig for the information you want, so you have to know how to ask questions. And you have to be willing to ask questions. There's another exercise that we have at CIA called Windows and Doors. In a conversation, people will open windows, windows in conversation, which means I might ask you one thing or you might ask me something, and then in my response, I hint at something else. That's a window, right? You started this conversation by asking me what season of my life am I in? That was a fantastic question to open windows and doors because you don't know what the answer is, but you're gonna choose what you hear-

    4. SBSteven Bartlett40:44

       Mm-hmm.

    5. ABAndrew Bustamante40:45

       ... to decide where you go next. The same thing happens in a normal conversation, right? You can- you can see windows and doors when they present themselves. When you are trying to cultivate perspective over somebody, you want to choose the windows and doors that you follow through in the conversation specifically to collect the kind of information that you want to gain that perspective. So if I'm trying to sell something to you, if I'm trying to sell something to you as an entrepreneur, I'm going to follow the windows and doors that open up in conversation that take me to understand better

15. 41:16 – 46:54

    Asking open-ended questions to get into someone's reality

    1. ABAndrew Bustamante41:16

       what limitations or challenges you're having as an entrepreneur.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett41:20

       So if I'm trying to buy ... If you're a car salesman and I'm- I've- I'm a customer and I want to buy a car, what kind of questions would you start asking me to...

    3. ABAndrew Bustamante41:27

       This is, I love this- I love this exercise 'cause I actually just had to buy a car after we moved.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett41:31

       Oh, really?

    5. ABAndrew Bustamante41:31

       And I was shocked at how horrible my car salesman was, because he- he did not think this way, right? Why do people buy a car? I'm- I have y- I'm gonna let you practice your perspective on me. When I moved to Colorado Springs in May, why did I have to buy a car?

    6. SBSteven Bartlett41:48

       Because you have kids.

    7. ABAndrew Bustamante41:49

       Nope.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett41:50

       You have two kids. Oh, because, um, you have to... Well, is it... You mentioned Colorado Springs, so I sug- I recom- I- I guess that's pretty pertinent to your answer, but you have to travel a lot around Colorado 'cause it's quite, um, quite vast, isn't it?

    9. ABAndrew Bustamante42:04

       You need a mode of transportation.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett42:06

        Mm-hmm.

    11. ABAndrew Bustamante42:06

        That's the only reason anybody buys a car. That's where you have to start, because then you have to think, "Well, why are they here?" If you're a Subaru dealership and somebody walks in, you already know that they've pre-qualified a number of things. They must be looking for a Subaru.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett42:21

        Mm-hmm.

    13. ABAndrew Bustamante42:21

        They must be looking for a two-wheel car. They must be looking for an all-wheel car, or else they wouldn't be here.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett42:28

        Mm-hmm.

    15. ABAndrew Bustamante42:28

        So you can kind of make those assumptions if you practice perspective when they walk in. And then when they walk in, that's when you find out, oh, they're a parent. So I'm looking for a mode of transportation that's also safe.... because I'm a parent. I'm a, I have a family of four, so I'm looking for a mode of transportation that's safe for at least four people. If you practice a little bit of perspective, you learn a lot more about the person that you're trying to close. So now, I ended up buying a Nissan Pathfinder, a brand new Nissan Pathfinder. Not because my salesman was any good, but because I went to the Nissan dealership already wanting a brand new Pathfinder, just like you did.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett43:06

        Mm-hmm.

    17. ABAndrew Bustamante43:06

        But I always go through this experience to see w- it's, what's the salesperson gonna do? Like, are they gonna try to sell me something good? Are they gonna try to sell me something wrong? Are they gonna understand my specific needs, or am I gonna have to coach them through this whole thing? My company gets hired to give sales training to high performance sales teams. And what I'm shocked at is how often, even with a high performing sales team, salespeople don't practice perspective and perception. What they practice is whatever script they're supposed to read, and they practice empirical numbers and they practice the, the law of averages, and it's like, "I need to make 100 calls to convert 12%."

    18. SBSteven Bartlett43:42

        Mm-hmm.

    19. ABAndrew Bustamante43:42

        That's what they practice, instead of practicing something just a little bit more efficient, like changing your opening line to ask an open-ended question, just like you did. An open-ended question is a question that makes the person on the other side of the phone speak through the lens of their current reality.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett43:59

        Do you know what? The, um... I've never said this before, but, uh, there's a question I ask every guest in the preamble. And I don't know if I asked you, but, uh, but I a- I ask 99% of guests when we sit down. Um, and it's, "What's front and center for you at the moment?" And for me, the reason I ask that question is because, um, kind of what you said, because people come here... And I, I, I assume that there's something that happened when they woke up this morning or there's something that's bugging them that my research team wouldn't have been able to find on the internet, that they haven't yet said in an interview. And it's been so unbelievably amazing when you ask that question. And then there was one particular conversation I had, which was one of my favorite of all time, where it was with Simon Sinek.

    21. ABAndrew Bustamante44:36

        Mm-hmm.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett44:36

        And because I've spoken to Simon Sinek three times on the podcast, I didn't, like, have research. Like, we've talked about everything. So I sat down and I had to fi- sit down and figure out where the conversation was gonna go-

    23. ABAndrew Bustamante44:47

        Yeah.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett44:47

        ... for the next three hours. And so my opening question to him was really broad. It was, um, "How are you? And please give me the long answer."

    25. ABAndrew Bustamante44:54

        (laughs)

    26. SBSteven Bartlett44:54

        "And you have to be honest."

    27. ABAndrew Bustamante44:55

        Yeah.

    28. SBSteven Bartlett44:55

        And he literally, for the first time ever in his life, went, "Do you know what? I'm feeling really lonely right now."

    29. ABAndrew Bustamante44:59

        Mm-hmm.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett45:00

        And for him to say that, a guy like that to say that, was like, "Whoa." And if I'd sat down with my, "Okay, today we're gonna talk about management strategies," I totally would've missed one of my favorite conversations of all time. Um, but it r- you have to have a lot of trust in yourself. This is what I've come to learn as a podcaster, to be able to sit down without any questions written down here, and to ask a really open-ended question, and then to try and follow them-
16. 46:54 – 50:32

    We should gamble on our lives when the odds are in our favor

    1. SBSteven Bartlett46:54

       and we spend three hours talking about loneliness. But that comes from that initial trust, I think.

    2. ABAndrew Bustamante46:57

       I think trust is a good word. Trust is a-

    3. SBSteven Bartlett46:59

       It's self-trust. I'm trying to... yeah.

    4. ABAndrew Bustamante47:00

       Yeah, self-trust, or, or confidence.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett47:02

       Yeah.

    6. ABAndrew Bustamante47:02

       Those are good words to use, but I would almost challenge that what you're really talking about is you're, you're gambling on odds that you've learned are in your favor, right? It's kind of like when you think about a professional athlete. Professional athletes do some amazing movements. Sometimes they make the score and sometimes they don't. But what happens is when they make the score doing an amazing movement, that's what we all remember. When they miss the shot doing the amazing movement, nobody remembers that, right? Nobody remembers how many basketball shots Dennis Rodman didn't make.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett47:38

       Mm-hmm.

    8. ABAndrew Bustamante47:39

       Right?

    9. SBSteven Bartlett47:39

       Mm-hmm.

    10. ABAndrew Bustamante47:39

        They just remember something else about Dennis Rodman.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett47:41

        Mm-hmm.

    12. ABAndrew Bustamante47:42

        Arnold Schwarzenegger has this famous quote where he, he, he made lots of movies. We all remember our favorite Arnold Schwarzenegger movie.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett47:50

        Hmm.

    14. ABAndrew Bustamante47:51

        But how many of his bad movies do you remember? Not many. And he knows that, too. And that's one of the reasons that he said yes to so many movies, was because he learned early on in his bodybuilding career that nobody remembers when you lose, but they always remember when you win.

    15. SBSteven Bartlett48:07

        Hmm.

    16. ABAndrew Bustamante48:07

        So he had no problem making a bunch of movies because the one or two or three or 12 or 18 that became blockbusters were the ones that defined him, even though he also did Kindergarten Cop.

    17. SBSteven Bartlett48:17

        I mean, that, that's quite a good, um... That's quite a good concept to hold in your mind if you're trying to weigh up any sort of risk in your life, like the risk of leaving the shed that we were talking about.

    18. ABAndrew Bustamante48:28

        Correct. You're, you're taking a chance. You're taking a gamble. But here's the thing: we're conditioned, in our shed, we're conditioned to gamble on the system, right? If you're gonna roll the dice, at least roll the dice that the system gives you, right? Bet on the house 'cause the house is gonna win.What we really learn as entrepreneurs is to gamble on ourselves. Like, bet on you. How many people take every dollar they earn and they invest it in a brokerage that's managed by somebody else that is targeting an 8% return on investment?

    19. SBSteven Bartlett49:04

        Mm-hmm.

    20. ABAndrew Bustamante49:04

        That's what they do with every dollar of their life. My, my mother-in-law just recently retired, about three-and-a-half or four weeks ago. She is... What do you have to be to retire? 69, I think? So she's 67 or 68 years old. She's worked her entire life. Her primary investment vehicles, I shit you not, are CDs. Uh, it's a device in the investment world where you basically put your money in for a certain amount of time and it guarantees you a certain yield.

    21. SBSteven Bartlett49:31

        Okay.

    22. ABAndrew Bustamante49:31

        And that yield is usually very, very low. But that was her preferred investment vehicle. So for the 69 years or the s- or the, uh, 50 years that she's been working, she's been investing in these low performance certificates of deposit, CD. That is exactly the kind of thinking that was conditioned into her by the generation before her. That's where she learned about CDs at all. That's why she bought her first CD at 16 years old, was because mom and dad told her to do that. So here it is 2024, she's retiring, and all of the money that she saved is basically in these certificates of deposit, which is not a lot of money.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett50:06

        Really?

    24. ABAndrew Bustamante50:06

        Yes. Because it doesn't grow. Whereas I invest in my company and my return has been 300%.

    25. SBSteven Bartlett50:14

        Mm-hmm.

    26. ABAndrew Bustamante50:15

        And entrepreneurs, even entrepreneurs who don't grow quickly, still see 12% return on investment, 15% return on investment, 20% return on investment, which outperforms anything in the market.

    27. SBSteven Bartlett50:27

        Mm-hmm.

    28. ABAndrew Bustamante50:28

        But you still have these people who don't wanna gamble on themselves

17. 50:32 – 52:23

    Who can't be taught these CIA skills

    1. ABAndrew Bustamante50:32

       because they're afraid that the house will win.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett50:36

       Who can't be taught the things that you teach in terms of the CIA skills and everything you teach within Everyday Spy?

    3. ABAndrew Bustamante50:41

       There's a lot of people out there who already... who right out of the gates had a circle drawn around them that CIA is some kind of deep state conspiracy, kills Americans, sells children, steals drugs kind of organization.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett50:55

       Are they wrong? (laughs)

    5. ABAndrew Bustamante50:59

       (laughs) Maybe there was a CIA that did that once. But my point is, those people are never gonna believe what I have to teach them. There are threads all over the internet about how I'm a fake and a phony and a fraudster. And, and there's even... There's... For every one of those threads, there are also threads that talk about how I'm a plant, how I'm still a CIA officer.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett51:18

       I did read that in the comment section.

    7. ABAndrew Bustamante51:20

       Isn't that funny?

    8. SBSteven Bartlett51:20

       I- I found that qu- quite funny.

    9. ABAndrew Bustamante51:21

       So there's like... There's both sides. These are people who cannot... They'll never be open to learn. They're not willing to learn.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett51:27

        How do I know you're not still a CIA officer?

    11. ABAndrew Bustamante51:29

        Does it matter?

    12. SBSteven Bartlett51:30

        (laughs) No, it doesn't.

    13. ABAndrew Bustamante51:31

        It doesn't matter. If you get... If you can take the information and test the framework and get ahead, does it matter?

    14. SBSteven Bartlett51:37

        Well, actually, maybe if the fra... Okay. Y- you said... You're at the right point now. You said, "Test it myself." Because you could be teaching me things that are gonna just keep me trapped in the matrix because the... You know.

    15. ABAndrew Bustamante51:48

        But I don't want you trapped in the matrix.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett51:50

        But I don't know that. You could still be a CIA spy.

    17. ABAndrew Bustamante51:52

        I could be.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett51:53

        But the key thing you said is that you're giving them to me to test for myself so I get the results to check-

    19. ABAndrew Bustamante51:58

        Right.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett51:58

        ... whether wha- what you're teaching me is positive or negative, productive or no- not productive.

    21. ABAndrew Bustamante52:02

        Correct. And that's, that's what really drives me. What drives me is this vision of a future that's good for my children, and the future that's good for my children is a future where the United States is still the most powerful economy in the world, still the most powerful military in the world. And according to all reports, that is not what will happen

18. 52:23 – 54:06

    Reaching an equal point with China

    1. ABAndrew Bustamante52:23

       by 2035. By 2035, we will be at parody with at least another country, most likely China. And as we reach parody, what that means is you reach equality. As you reach equality, your superpower status goes away. You are no longer a superpower, you are a near-peer power or a near-peer competitor. It's very different than being a superpower.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett52:47

       Why does it matter?

    3. ABAndrew Bustamante52:49

       Because when there's competition, there's more uncertainty, there's more unpredictability, there's more danger, there's more risk, there's less opportunity. Think about the starting quarterback for a football team. He's the starting quarterback. He is the person, he is the, the player that will start the game, that will have the football, and nobody questions it. There's a lot of opportunity there for that person. But as soon as they start to be unpredictable, as soon as there's a new star, a new quarterback that comes in and threatens the existing quarterback, now we don't really know who's gonna start and the team doesn't really know who's gonna start. And then for all we know, the team is gonna have two different quarterbacks that f- that swap in and out throughout the entire game, and the whole team performs worse because they don't know how to predict the quarterback because the new quarterback or the old quarterback isn't the one that's always throwing the ball. So there's, there's an uncertainty that comes as a c- as competition arises. It's why business owners wanna be in a business of one. It's why there's such a thing as a blue ocean marketing strategy versus a red ocean marketing strategy. Because when you're in a blue ocean, when you have no competitors around you, your business will most likely thrive, you have room to make mistakes, you can learn slowly. But when you're in a highly competitive

19. 54:06 – 57:20

    What history tells us about changing superpowers

    1. ABAndrew Bustamante54:06

       red ocean, you don't get any of those opportunities.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett54:10

       What does history tell us about how changing... the changing of the guard as it relates to world power, what the dangers might be for the average person?

    3. ABAndrew Bustamante54:23

       It's a great question, and this is where I wanna reemphasize my lack of altruism, right? Because-

    4. SBSteven Bartlett54:29

       What does altruism mean for anyone that doesn't know?

    5. ABAndrew Bustamante54:31

       So altruism is, is this idea that you care about other people or that you care about a common good, right? I, I don't care about a common good. What-

    6. SBSteven Bartlett54:39

       But you care about other people?

    7. ABAndrew Bustamante54:40

       I care about some other people.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett54:42

       Your children?

    9. ABAndrew Bustamante54:43

       Correct. (laughs)

    10. SBSteven Bartlett54:45

        (laughs)

    11. ABAndrew Bustamante54:45

        My family, my friends, the people that I think are making a difference-

    12. SBSteven Bartlett54:48

        Mm-hmm.

    13. ABAndrew Bustamante54:48

        ... and that's just the way it is. Why will some people not be willing to learn what I teach them? Because they will disagree with my ethics and my morals about how I don't care about all people equally.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett54:58

        Well, I just... I prefer... I like the fact that you're honest, so, I mean, that makes me trust you more, so.

    15. ABAndrew Bustamante55:02

        I appreciate that.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett55:03

        Yeah.

    17. ABAndrew Bustamante55:03

        So if you look at history-Rome was really good for Romans for a long, long time. The fall of Rome was bad for everybody. The transition was bad for everybody. Coming out of World War II, right? When you were a Nazi in Nazi Germany, things were pretty good.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett55:25

        Mm-hmm.

    19. ABAndrew Bustamante55:25

        Right? But then when Nazi Germany fell, it was bad for a lot of people. There was a lot of war, there was a lot of death, there was a lot of starvation. Multiple countries had been destroyed. There was a war, there was a transition of power. Same thing happened with the fall of the Soviet Union.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett55:39

        The U... In that war, I was watching a documentary about it the other day. It was interesting 'cause I watched both the sort of Soviet Union rush into Berlin and I watched America rushed into Berlin. They kind of, they both, um, took different parts of Germany. And then once they'd taken down the Nazis, they kind of went to war with each other-

    21. ABAndrew Bustamante55:52

        Correct.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett55:53

        ... because they then were trying to figure out who was in charge of Germany and how they were gonna divvy up land. So there was another war, basically, like a civil war following the fall of the Nazis.

    23. ABAndrew Bustamante56:00

        And the same thing happened in China. The same thing happened as, as our, uh, Pacific forces kind of worked their way up through Japan, there became conflict in the East as well, right? So transition periods, where near-peer countries or where countries become near-peer competitors, that, that's not... People don't stop competing as the competition increases. Like what's, what's happening in the world right now in Ukraine, in Russia, in, in Israel with Hamas, with the Houthis and with the Iranians, like what's happening is competition is on the rise. So everything becomes less stable. Things become more dangerous. When there's a clear bully in the playground, there's only one bully and nobody has to mess with the bully, and it's a bad day for anyone the bully messes with, but for the most part, everybody else is good. But what happens when there's two bullies? Shit gets messy. The bullies make posses. The posses have to fight with each other. More people get hurt, more rabble-rousing happens in the playground than when there's just one bully. So for me, the United States is the bully on the playground. And I, as an American citizen, am living in a place where it's pretty good to be on the bully's side. So for me, pragmatically speaking, if I want the best for my children, what I really need is for the United States to remain the only bully

20. 57:20 – 1:00:46

    Is the war in Ukraine & Russia a symptom of a change in power?

    1. ABAndrew Bustamante57:20

       so then I can have some impotence, some, some confidence that their future will be secure.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett57:24

       Do you think the war in the Ukraine and Russia is a symptom of the changing in power? Because it's kind of like a proxy war, right? You've got Ukraine is actually the USA and Russia is actually kind of China to some degree.

    3. ABAndrew Bustamante57:38

       So I would say it's not kind of a proxy war, it's a full-on proxy war.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett57:41

       Mm-hmm.

    5. ABAndrew Bustamante57:41

       You're ab- You're 100% right.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett57:42

       I don't even know what a proxy war is. I just used that term 'cause it sounded smart.

    7. ABAndrew Bustamante57:45

       Well, it does sound smart. It is smart. Proxy war is a doctrine, it's an actual military doctrine, that says that you create what's known as, uh, intrastate conflict, which means conflict internal to a state. And then external wealth parties fund the conflict in the state. That way the two external parties that are in conflict don't have to sp- waste any lives. It protects them diplomatically, it protects them socially, it protects them militarily. They're only spending resources in an intrastate conflict. The intrastate conflict has always been inside Ukraine. Eastern Ukraine and Western Ukraine have always been in conflict. We just didn't realize it until Russia invaded 'cause nobody paid attention to Ukraine. Same thing in Israel. There's always been conflict between the Palestinians and the Israelis. We just didn't really pay attention to it until, uh, until October 8th.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett58:31

       Mm-hmm.

    9. ABAndrew Bustamante58:32

       So the, the conflict that you're talking about is, is not a symptom. It's a strategy. And the strategy is that the United States can drain Russian resources without draining American lives, which makes it easy for the United States to continue draining strategic resources from Russia. And then NATO's watching the same thing happen and NATO's the one that has the most to lose if Russia is strong, so then that's why they also pile in support. That's the strategy. That has been the United States' strategy since the end of World War II. Who rebuilt Japan? The United States. Who rebuilt the UK? The United States. Who rebuilt Germany? Who w- rebuilt France? All the United States. Is it any surprise that all of these countries since World War II have then been close diplomatic, political and economic allies? No. And guess what they all have? They all have very similar sheds because we built their political systems from World War II based on ours, right? That's the American model. That's been how America has grown economically so quickly all over the world. Guess who's mimicking that model now? China. The real conflict between the United States and China, nobody can define it. Trump calls it a trade war because we have a bunch of cheap Chinese goods. That's not the problem. The problem is that Xi Jinping understands that what he wants for China is for China to be a, a net exporter of high technology. Who's the only other high ex- net exporter of high technology? The United States. The United States makes electric vehicles, China makes electric vehicles. The United States makes telecommunication, China makes telecommunication. That's the conflict because what China is doing is giving the rest of the developing world an alternative to the United States. Well, if... Just like any other business, if I make coffee and you make coffee, we're in competition for the person who wants to buy coffee. So now we're fighting over that person. Whoever wins that person wins more money. Whoever wins that person wins repeat buyers. And now I might lose my company. My coffee shop might shrink and your coffee shop might grow because this person is

21. 1:00:46 – 1:07:07

    Current State of US politics, there's only one person that can beat Trump

    1. ABAndrew Bustamante1:00:46

       choosing your coffee when it used to be only mine was available.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:49

       So who is better for America: Joe Biden or Donald Trump?

    3. ABAndrew Bustamante1:00:57

       Neither. They are both bad for America in different ways.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:01

       Who is more likely to prolong American dominance?

    5. ABAndrew Bustamante1:01:06

       Donald Trump, of the two.... Donald Trump of the two. Here, here's what I'm gonna tell you. I had this thought last night and I was gonna make it a video for my own channel, but my channel is nowhere near as enjoyable as your channel.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:19

       I'll put it on yours as well.

    7. ABAndrew Bustamante1:01:20

       (laughs) There is only one Democrat in the United States who can beat Donald Trump. Only one. Nobody else stands a chance. Democratic Party is struggling to accept that. Nobody can beat Donald Trump. There's only one that can win, and that's Michelle Obama.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:35

       I did think this 'cause, I mean, I would say Barack, but obviously he can't because he's done his eight years. But Michelle, I, I, I do agree, and she doesn't want anything to do with it.

    9. ABAndrew Bustamante1:01:43

       Uh, she said, she said in early July she wanted nothing to do with it. But what's happened since early July? There's been the assassination attempt on Donald Trump. The assassination attempt turned into this incredible media frenzy. Now, you have this guy with blood on his face and a fist in the air and a flag behind him. You have a Pulitzer Prize-winning photo already floating around the internet with this guy on it, right? Everything changed. There's no way Michelle Obama isn't sitting in her room multiple times a day asking herself the question, "Do I still want nothing to do with this or do I have to step up to the plate to do what I believe is the right thing to do 'cause only I can do it?" Think about the questions Barack Obama must ask Michelle Obama. Think about the silence, the pregnant silence around their kitchen table at night. Think about how heavy they must be thinking right now because they know what I just said out loud that you knew yesterday. There's only one Democrat that can beat Donald Trump. And maybe in July 3rd, she said she wanted nothing to do with it, but now it's July 20th. And if she really believes in this country, how is she not gonna rise to the occasion? How is she gonna sit back and let the future of her daughters rest in the hands of somebody she doesn't believe in? Because the truth is, if she were to run, overnight she would have the complete support of the entire Democratic National Convention, every donor who has already donated money would let their money stay with her and probably donate more. Women voters, African American voters, voters that are on the fence, voters that are looking for any alternative to Donald Trump or Joe Biden, they would all get their answers given to them at once. Not to mention the fact that she's brilliant, she's esteemed, she's youthful. Like, everything that America stands for is represented in Michelle Obama just as much as what we say America stands for is represented by Donald Trump. So if Michelle Obama is announced at the Democratic National Convention, I'm glad we had this conversation.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:51

        (laughs) You, you, do, do, do you think that's possible?

    11. ABAndrew Bustamante1:03:55

        Absolutely, it's possible. I don't think it's probable.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:57

        Okay.

    13. ABAndrew Bustamante1:03:58

        But I do think it's possible, and I can't help but have the hope in our country that the few who are willing to learn will step up and accept that they have to gamble on themselves.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:12

        Do you think that Michelle Obama would increase the probability and the length of America's dominance versus Trump?

    15. ABAndrew Bustamante1:04:19

        Absolutely. It would just be in a different way. Donald Trump grows through bravado and brinksmanship. He grows like a bully grows. But what we've learned about the United States is that our bullish strategy, our bully strategy that we've been employing since 1950 is a game of diminishing returns. We invest a lot into it, but we lose influence. We lose global reach. We lose power. We're losing economic might. They say that China's having an economic recession right now at 4.5% growth GDP. We're at 1.3% growth GDP. Nobody's talking about our recession because our recession has been on so long it's not a recession anymore. It's just the United States doesn't grow more than really 3%. China used to grow at 5%, so when it goes from 5% to 4%, it's a big deal for people. Our model is already broken. Our, our model already doesn't work. So, all Donald Trump is gonna do is come in and double down on that model because he's only got four years in the House. He's, he's only got four years in the White House and he knows it. So, he's not out there to revolutionize America. He's not out there to revolutionize the United States. Like, he's out there for Donald Trump. I think he believes he'll do a good job. I think he believes he's best for America. I think he believes that, that being a bully is the way to go, but that doesn't mean he's right. That doesn't mean it's going to be exponential return on investment. It could be a continuing game of diminishing returns. Michelle Obama has the opportunity to do it differently as long as she doesn't come in just parroting the Joe Biden and Barack Obama school of thought.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:57

        What would, what do you think she would need to say to meet America's ideology right now?

    17. ABAndrew Bustamante1:06:01

        I think she could define America's ideology right now. I don't think she'd have to meet it. I think America is lost. America has been looking down the barrel of the 2024 election for a long time knowing it was gonna boil down to Trump versus Biden, knowing that it was gonna d- boil down to an octogenarian who can't form a sentence from a stage sometimes or a crazy-ass businessman who when he forms a sentence, it's a nonsensical sentence. Like, that's what we've been looking at. That's, that's been the choice.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:35

        Doesn't really feel like it's a choice anymore.

    19. ABAndrew Bustamante1:06:36

        (laughs) It's-

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:37

        No, because I, after Trump got shot in the ear, I think, uh, I mean, I watched those scenes as well, and I thought, "Yeah, this guy's won."

    21. ABAndrew Bustamante1:06:44

        He won. And that's the, he... And everybody knows it. If you're not willing to admit it, that's fine. Everybody knows he won the election on that day. The day he survived that shooting in Butler, Pennsylvania, July 13th, he won the 2024 election unless something even more disruptive happens in the marketplace between now

22. 1:07:07 – 1:16:16

    Was Trump's shooting a staged assassination?

    1. ABAndrew Bustamante1:07:07

       and November 5th. Michelle Obama has the power to do that.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:11

       If you were his, in his marketing team-And you were desperate, you would've shot him in the ear that day, wouldn't you?

    3. ABAndrew Bustamante1:07:17

       (laughs) No, no way. The risk is too great.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:20

       I mean, if you, if you knew it was gonna hit his ear and you were in his marketing team, you would've shot him in the ear that day. Like, if I, I... 'Cause that was, you, as we both said, he won the election that day.

    5. ABAndrew Bustamante1:07:28

       Yeah.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:29

       And he won the election because he, many people will now see him as some kind of hero. Or-

    7. ABAndrew Bustamante1:07:34

       S- so I'll, I'll tell you how a CIA officer thinks about this, right? If you wanted to stage an attempted assassination, if that's what you wanted to do was stage an attempted assassination, you would never shoot at the person who was the principal. You would shoot away. You'd shoot up in the sky.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:51

       Wh- what's the principal, as in, like-

    9. ABAndrew Bustamante1:07:51

       The principal, the principal is the primary target that you're trying to support, right? So Donald Trump was the principal. If I was trying to stage an assassination to get, to win him popular praise, I would not shoot at him because the risk is too great that the shot would either miss and hit him, possibly hit him fatally, or it would miss him and hit someone in the audience, and then a rally member dies and now we have to account for why somebody at the rally died. Like, people were killed and people were hurt at the, at the Donald Trump rally in Butler, Pennsylvania. If you wanted to stage an assassination, you would shoot 35, 40 degrees off target, well away from anybody accidentally getting hit because what's gonna happen? Everybody's gonna hear the gunshots. So the gunshots will still cause the panic. The Secret Service would still jump in. They'd still cover him. There'd still be all the same newsworthiness without the risk of killing somebody. And if you really, really wanted to make it, like, so it, it made headlines, you could even potentially stage some kind of cut that's covered up with a small skin-colored Band-Aid so that when the shots go off, you can wipe off or pull off the Band-Aid and then there's gonna be active red spots, right? You would never actually shoot at the principal. That's what people don't understand about conspiracies is that when you actually plan to carry out a covert action, you plan to carry out the covert action in the safest possible way. You don't run the risk of actually shooting the principal.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:09:13

        So, but let's play out the scenario that it was a conspiracy. So what could've happened then? I, I, I was in an office the other day at one of the companies that, um, I'm involved with, and there was a group of people ca- gathered around a laptop watching the footage. And half of the people thought it was some kind of conspiracy and that maybe he fell down and then, like, cut his own ear. And then the other half of the people thought that that was, that was craziness. What side of the fence do you sit on? You think it was a real shooter?

    11. ABAndrew Bustamante1:09:37

        I think it was a real shooter.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:09:39

        Mm-hmm.

    13. ABAndrew Bustamante1:09:39

        I absolutely think it was a real shooter. The, the principles that CIA teaches us about how to analyze a situation are twofold. They teach us how to analyze a situation, but they also teach us how to predict a conspiracy. And conspiracies have a very clear anatomy. They have a very clear process. All conspiracies start with something that is factual. Something really does happen. And then immediately following the factual thing, there's a lack of information. Inside of that lack of in- uh, of information, the third piece of the puzzle is speculation. Now, speculation and suspicion are very close cousins. Suspicion is healthy, right? You've heard of healthy suspicion. Speculation is not healthy. Speculation is what it takes for you to create an answer to a story that's not based on facts, which is where the fourth element of a conspiracy comes from, a, a story that closes the loop. Because when there's information missing, it creates an open loop. Well, guess what human brains like? Conveniently closed loops. So we can't handle an open loop very well for very long, so then we start speculating on what might've happened until someone defines for us an answer, and then all of a sudden you have an answer that closes the loop and you have a conspiracy. Conspiracies happen all the time. Conspiracies happen in your own home. Who's the last one that ate the... Who ate the last piece of bread, right? Who's the one that drank the last bit of milk? How is there, how are there no more eggs left in the refrigerator, right? Lack of information leads to speculation, and then we close the loop with a story in our mind. When you look at what happened in Butler, Pennsylvania, there's all the elements for a, for a conspiracy. There's facts, a lack of information, speculation, and somebody's closing the story loop. And all these different conspiracies are gaining momentum. But when you look at the factual analysis of what happened, there are pictures, there are diagrams, there's, there's a corpse of a 20-year-old shooter holding a high-powered rifle on top of a roof, aimed at the stage. There's reports of local sheriff and local police officers being notified of that. There's bystanders who have reported that. There's, there's technology that's been, uh, that's been, uh, employed to verify that. There's enough facts there to know that there really was someone who was young, by name, who took a shot at the president. That's what we know. Guess what happens tomorrow? We learn more. We don't have to know all the answers today.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:07

        (laughs)

    15. ABAndrew Bustamante1:12:07

        More information will come. As soon as Donald Trump was shot, I called up one of my friends who's a, who's a Secret Service, a retired Secret Service officer. And I said to him that from my point of view, from what I understand about close protection, everything was done pretty close to right. There's always gaps, always gaps at any kind of political rally. That's why they're dangerous. You can't make it 100% secure. That's why there's snipers on the roof. There's not snipers on the roof because there's, they feel like the grounds are safe. There's snipers on the roof because they know that there's gaps.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:41

        Mm-hmm.

    17. ABAndrew Bustamante1:12:42

        There's not Secret Service on the sides of the stage carrying guns because they think that they're safe. There's Secret Service on the sides of the stage 'cause they know that there's gaps. Of course there's gaps. You can't, you can't manage all risks. The person took a shot from over 400 feet. 400 feet is a long, difficult shot. Empirically, it's a long, difficult shot. Even though the newspapers come out and say it's a turkey shoot or an easy shot or a standard shot or a basic shot, it is not. Any hunter out there will tell you 400 yards is a difficult shot. And you have to have a high-powered rifle built for that kind of distance to shoot that length.So there's all kinds of misinformation that's going around as people try to spin up a story. So for me, it was a real assassination attempt, by a real person, whose motives are still unknown.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:13:28

        I was, I was listening to something and th- the person was saying that maybe the s- you know, the CIA or some- somebody infiltrated this young man and, you know, encouraged him over a period of time to get up there on that roof and all these kinds of things. The, the, the heart of the problem here is we don't n- we don't ... we're quite distrusting and we don't have answers, and most of us aren't informed. So there's basically the small life that we live, and then above us we see, like, billionaires and powerful people and we hear that they do and, or have historically done very nefarious, malicious things, and that becomes our sort of shed, is that we are the average person and then up there, outside the shed, there's all these billionaires, powerful illuminati, and they are doing these really malicious things. Now s- in part that's true-

    19. ABAndrew Bustamante1:14:16

        (laughs)

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:16

        ... but maybe only in part. And we kind of assume this broad strokes approach to anything that happens and we go government, matrix, conspiracy. Um, and, uh, you know, the CA- CIA does have history of doing things like this.

    21. ABAndrew Bustamante1:14:32

        True. True. You're, we're coming into a, a conversation that's twofold. One, we're talking about a pre-9/11 CIA. Pre-9/11, post-9/11 is important to, to create a distinction for CIA because prior to September 11th, CIA was a small, highly-funded organization with very little oversight. They could come up with crazy stuff like trying to, you know, trying to poison Fidel Castro so his be- his beard fell out, or trying to create the Bay of Pigs invasion, or trying to do all sorts of wacky stuff from, you know, MKUltra to whatever else. That was a wacky, pre-9/11, unsupervised, Wild West kind of CIA. Post-9/11, the 9/11 Commission, written in 2003, highlighted that CIA failed to do its job, first September 11th, so now there's tons of oversight. It's now a very large, very fat, well-funded bureaucracy, whereas before it was a well-funded free-for-all.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:36

        If it was a conspiracy, which department or which organization would be responsible, in your opinion?

    23. ABAndrew Bustamante1:15:42

        If it was a conspiracy, there would be no department in charge of the conspiracy.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:47

        So it would be something else?

    25. ABAndrew Bustamante1:15:48

        Correct. Right. Because when governments act, when individuals in a government act in a conspiratorial manner, it's not formalized. If it was formalized, it would be a policy, right? They act independently, and there's all sorts of instances where people act independently, from, from, uh, Edward Snowden all the way to Aldrich Ames, right? There are people who actually carried out conspiratorial efforts to try to gain

23. 1:16:16 – 1:19:31

    If that bullet had hit Donald Trump, how would things be different

    1. ABAndrew Bustamante1:16:16

       some kind of leverage that worked for them for a while and then worked against them.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:16:20

       If that bullet had hit Donald Trump in the head, how do you think the US would be different?

    3. ABAndrew Bustamante1:16:28

       (sighs)

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:16:29

       I was thinking about this when I was driving down the street yesterday.

    5. ABAndrew Bustamante1:16:31

       It's, it's hard to define that, really.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:16:33

       I was thinking we probably wouldn't be sat here now because there probably would've been quite a bit of unrest potentially. Potentially. I don't know.

    7. ABAndrew Bustamante1:16:39

       I don't know. Like, I, it, it would've ... I think we would've still been sitting here.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:16:44

       I was wondering because-

    9. ABAndrew Bustamante1:16:44

       I would've gotten my ass on a plane to come sit with you, at least, for sure. (laughs)

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:16:47

        Well, I would have ... Well, there'd be, I know rights of ... You never know how these sort of domino effects can happen and people can break out on the streets and, you know, because what might happen? Let's just play out this scenario. Donald Trump gets shot, then some crazy right-wing person comes out and shoots someone else.

    11. ABAndrew Bustamante1:17:02

        Mm-hmm.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:17:03

        And then, and then the streets of LA look very different to the streets of LA today, and we're sat here in LA, so do you know what I mean? That's kind of the domino effect that was playing out in my mind. There'd be some kinda revenge, right?

Episode duration: 2:52:46