How I Became The Worlds Best DJ With Only One Arm: Black Coffee | E183

1. 0:00 – 1:51

   Intro

   1. BCBlack Coffee0:00

      We just heard this sound, and it was a car, just rammed through the crowd. And I just blacked out.

   2. NANarrator0:06

      Make some noise for Black Coffee! (audience cheering)

   3. BCBlack Coffee0:14

      I hardly had a childhood. I was always working, and I used to hate it growing up, because I just felt like, "Well, when, when am I gonna become a child, you know, and play like other kids?"

   4. NANarrator0:27

      The 10th of February, tell me about that day.

   5. BCBlack Coffee0:30

      (exhales sharply) Man, that was a scary thing for me. When I went to the hospital, no one knew what to do. I would literally close my eyes. I wouldn't know whether it's here or here or here or ...

   6. NANarrator0:42

      So, it was paralyzed at that point?

   7. BCBlack Coffee0:44

      Yeah. I stayed for three months in the hospital, you know, and that depressed me even more. Music helped me so much. It brought me peace. This is why I share it. It's my way of healing people the same way it healed me. My childhood, where I come from, those things scare me.

   8. NANarrator1:04

      Why do those things scare you?

   9. BCBlack Coffee1:05

      'Cause it's a story that ... It was, for years, hard for me to share. So what happened is I ...

   10. SBSteven Bartlett1:13

       (Music) Before this conversation starts, I've got a favor to ask from you. 74% of people that watch this podcast frequently haven't yet hit the subscribe button, and 9% of people haven't yet hit the bell to turn notifications on. The bigger this platform gets, the bigger the guests get. So if you could do me one favor, if you've ever enjoyed this podcast, please hit the subscribe button and turn notifications on. Without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is the Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. (music) So the question that I always start

2. 1:51 – 9:18

   Early years

   1. SBSteven Bartlett1:51

      this podcast with, because I, I, I ch- ... I studied childhood psychology for a little while, and it was illuminating to me how much of our early years end up defining and shaping us-

   2. BCBlack Coffee1:59

      Of course.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett1:59

      ... how m- who we become.

   4. BCBlack Coffee2:00

      Of course.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett2:01

      So that early context before 12 years old, what, what did that look like for you?

   6. BCBlack Coffee2:07

      (inhales deeply) Um, when I was born, my, my parents were, were married. My mom was super young. I was the first one. Um, (clicks tongue) two other siblings at the time. Uh, my mom married very extremely young, probably like 22, 23 already. With three kids, divorcing. Um, (clicks tongue) we were moved to live with our grandmother from the maternal side, and she's the one who raised us. And she used to work in a general hospital in the sewing room, but I saw her w- working extremely hard to go for everything she wanted. You know, like, I look back, (clicks tongue) and try to imagine how much money she was earning, and look at the achievements, like changing her mud house into a, a big designed, respectable house. And she did this bit by bit by bit. And as a kid, I was there, and I saw it. Whatever little money she would have, she would buy the bricks, they would wait. She buy sand, it waits. She buy gravel, it waits. Everything, (clicks tongue) slowly. So that's what I learned from her, like, to be assertive. You, you wake up. You go work. Also, the strongest thing that I learned from her is that she had cows, and she was the only woman in the area, you know, who had cows, you know, and she was single woman. And (clicks tongue) my job was to, every morning, go milk the cows before I go to school, every afternoon after school. So I hardly had a childhood. I had, like, um, time to play as a child. I was always working, 5:00, 5:30 from 11 years old, every single day. And, um, that was my environment, you know, where I'm like, "Okay, whatever you need, you just ... You have to work. There's no other way." And so, for the few years, (clicks tongue) she would make sure I'm up. She would make sure, you know, I'm on time, and eventually it was my thing. She didn't have to wake me up. She didn't have to tell me when to go. She didn't have to ... If there was a problem with the, the cows, I knew what was wrong. If I needed to get medication from the pharmacy, you know, I, I understood everything eventually. It became my thing, you know. Um, (clicks tongue) that's, that's my childhood.

   7. NANarrator4:49

      Where was your father?

   8. BCBlack Coffee4:50

      Uh, (clicks tongue) my father remained in Durban and remarried. So he started another family. He worked in a factory. Um, (clicks tongue) they ... Uh, for a company called Bakon. They made s- sweets and chocolates. Um, that's where he worked, and he just didn't have ... (clicks tongue) He was a nice guy, but he wasn't present, you know? So on holidays we'd go see him. You know, he would have nothing to say. He wasn't the guy who was like, "How was your day? How was school?" You know, (clicks tongue) any advice type of thing, you know. He wasn't ... It was just, like, the way he was, you know. Um, (clicks tongue) yet my grandmother was the, she was the man (laughs) and the woman. So she's the one who basically ... And I used to hate it growing up, because I just felt like, "Well, when, when am I gonna become a child, you know, and play like other kids?" And she was like this. (inhales deeply) She was super strict. She was like ...... assertive, hardworking, you know. There was hardly time to do like all the, like the games like other kids were doing, you know. So I grew up with that kind of focus, which I hated, because I wanted to be a kid, you know. But then it taught me so much about just work, having a work ethic, and, um, that's why I'm able to just pack up and, and leave wherever I can, you know.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett6:38

      I always reference this conversation I had with the, with the guy that trained Michael Jordan and Kobe, and he told me that, you know, th- these things, when we're young, they end up being the consequence of our, of our greatness, of our talent, these hard- these hardships we have. But they also always come with a cost, so the lack of play, the lack of a, a father figure, the situation of you growing up in a house where you don't have electricity, you're milking cows-

   10. BCBlack Coffee7:01

       Yeah.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett7:01

       ... your, your, you know, your food is cooked by you creating a fire-

   12. BCBlack Coffee7:06

       Yeah.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett7:06

       ... et cetera. What is, what is the cost? I, I can... The, the lesson and the value it gave you is so clear, but what is the cost?

   14. BCBlack Coffee7:14

       Oh, man, lots. Um, um, one of them is just being to myself, you know, um, to a point where I have a very small circle of friends, because I was never a social guy, you know. Um, so I was... As a kid I always had to do all the work alone, 'cause your friends will sometimes come, you know, but then they realized, "Okay, every day?" You know? So they're not gonna always come, so I was always like a loner growing up. And then I kind of like got comfortable with that, got comfortable with trusting my thoughts and my decisions, you know, like being confident in just myself, uh, without needing people, you know. And that has, like, affected a lot of, like, personal relationships, where if I just feel a little bit uneasy, I will just remove myself. (laughs) And it's not hard for me, because I'm like, what I really know is myself, you know. But it's, it's, um, um, something I wanna start working on, because I'm quick to create a comfortable space. You know, I can meet a stranger and I'm quick to just like ... but I- I'm much quicker to move as well, you know. And it's, it's something that I feel is not like, um, real, you know? But it's doable because I'm always on the move and, and, and, and, you know, but, um, there are things that I'm like, I need to work on, you know?

   15. SBSteven Bartlett9:17

       Um,

3. 9:18 – 13:20

   Are you good with emotion

   1. SBSteven Bartlett9:18

      typically, you know, I think there's a bit of a stereotype that, that Black men aren't the best at emotions. (aluminum bottle crunches) And some, some people point out sort of generational cycles for that. Um, did you learn how to express your emotions when you were young?

   2. BCBlack Coffee9:31

      No. I was terrible at it. Um, and there was no one. Like I said, my grandmother was quite tough, so... When I look at how I am with my kids, you can see when you've pushed a little bit hard, you know, in conversation with, with someone, and you are able to bring them back, you know, and explain like, "Look, I'm sorry. You know, I was a bit loud there. This is why," and you know, like, so that they understand all the dynamics, you know. And the older generation was the one that will whip you, you know, and tell you, "It's gonna hurt me more than it hurts you," and that's it. You'll get over it, because as a child you have unconditional love for your parent. You'll eventually get over it, and you're the one coming back, making jokes like nothing happened, you know. Um, but I didn't have like a good role model in, in anything, even this, you know. Uh, I used to like avoid, I still do, this, uh, doing interviews, because there's just, again, society pressure that if I'm good at making music, am I good in public speaking? So if I play songs nice, am I now a role model to your children more than you? You know, my society will say, "Oh, don't act this way. My kids look up to you," and I'm like, "But I- I'm just a DJ who's living his life," and all of a sudden it's like, "No, no, no, but you can't, uh, you can't do it like this because, um, it's you," you know? So in, in the beginning, all I wanted to do was just play music. Like I was that kid, even if I'm not invited at a party, I'd bring my record box and I'd wait and I hope they give me a chance, you know. Like, that's all I wanted to do.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett11:49

      Why? Why music?

   4. BCBlack Coffee11:52

      Uh, because it's always been my, um, escape. You know, in that house where I used to live and all I did was work, and then in my room-... music helped me so much to dream of these moments. You know, like, if I listen to, to Michael Jackson, I imagine where he lives. "Oh, he must ... in America. And, uh, one day I'll go there." You know? Um, that's it. It really, like, took me to all these places, so it became my, my friend, you know? Um, and I never had an explanation as to even then what I would do with it. Like, when I finished high school, I'm like, "I'm gonna go to college and study." And my cousins were like, "Are you crazy? Then what are you gonna do?" I didn't know. "Do you, do you wanna be a teacher?" I'm like, "No, but this is what I wanna do." As long as I was surrounded by, by music, that's all I wanted to do, you know? Uh, 'cause it just, it brought me so much peace, happiness, you know? And this is why I share it. I share it because of what it does to me. You know? It's my, it's my way of healing people the same way it healed me. I don't know if I'm making sense.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett13:19

      You make perfect sense.

4. 13:20 – 20:02

   What role did music play in your household

   1. SBSteven Bartlett13:20

   2. BCBlack Coffee13:20

      Yeah.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett13:20

      You know, I sat here and I, I sa- I s- I sat with the biggest comedians in this country, and typically with comedians, the stereotype is that the comedian is depressed. Th- so they started cracking jokes or ... And then one of the comedians came here and said to me, he said, "You shouldn't be asking ... You should never ask a comedian if they're depressed, because it's usually that they were doing comedy because one of their parents were depressed. So comedy became a way for them to see a smile on their mother's face-"

   4. BCBlack Coffee13:46

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett13:46

      "... for the first time."

   6. BCBlack Coffee13:47

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett13:47

      "Or to see their father smile for the first time."

   8. BCBlack Coffee13:50

      Mm-hmm.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett13:50

      Music and the role it played in your household, in, and just in your environment, outside of yourself, um, I was wondering as you were saying that, is it also something that created happiness in others when you were young, that you saw, like, your, your family or your-

   10. BCBlack Coffee14:05

       Yeah. Um, before we moved, uh, uh, to, to my grandmother's place in the Eastern Cape, the structure of my family back then was my entire family lived in one house. Well, not entirely, but my father and his brothers. So there was about four families. And that's where music was like a thing. You know? One of my uncles, my father's brother, had a, like, a small, um, we called them ghetto blasters.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett14:45

       Yeah.

   12. BCBlack Coffee14:46

       Yeah. So he was the music guy. He loved reggae. He used to play reggae a lot. That's where I ... my first love for reggae came from. Like, anything as a kid. I e- I used to know different Peter Tosh albums, Bob Marley & the Wailers, and all that kind of music. And every now and then, then it would be the pop that was happening at the time, and he would take it out, and all of us would be out there, and we would dance, you know? Uh, that's, that's my, my earliest childhood memories with music, is that in that big family when it's hot, and it's summer, and th- we're just all outside, and he plays the music, and, you know, we'd dance. Anything with, with music, you would find me. That's why I never knew what I would do with it, you know? Uh, but I just knew I ... wherever it is. Sometimes they would send me to sh- to the shops, and in the township, sometimes there would be, like, a big Coca-Cola truck. Maybe they're promoting a new flavor, and it's parked, and there's ... They play music. They send me to buy bread, and I don't come back.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett15:53

       (laughs)

   14. BCBlack Coffee15:53

       Like, literally, 'cause I'm just there, like, I'm just listening to music. You know? I don't leave, literally, and I get into trouble, you know? So wherever there was music, that's how I got into it, 'cause my cousin, who's also our neighbor, him and his friend had a mobile sound system. So they were doing weddings, like graduation parties, and, and so during the week he'll have the sound system connected, like just small speaker, and he'd play loud music, and I would go there. So I spent days there, and then I started, like ... they used to use, like, cassettes, and you rewind with a pen.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett16:31

       (laughs) Yeah.

   16. BCBlack Coffee16:31

       So that's how I started, and I would, like, learn, and I was curious, and then they would take me to the day parties. Then I would be the opening DJ, you know? But I was so curious that I developed this style of playing, you know? Uh, I was a little bit advanced in understanding tempos of the songs, and so I wouldn't just randomly play. I would play songs that were close together in tempo, and so all of a sudden the mixes were, like, almost flawless, and people were like ... Then I became their main DJ, you know? By 14, 15, I was like their main DJ, and the people booking them would tell them, "Bring that Black boy." (laughs)

   17. SBSteven Bartlett17:19

       (laughs)

   18. BCBlack Coffee17:19

       I was, like, super dark as a kid. "Bring him." You know? And then I was more curious. Then I started collecting records. Then I bought turntables and worked with my own, and they'd bring a system, I'd plug more things, you know? And then when I finished school and I moved to another city, back to Durban, where there was more access to things, then I, I really got into it. So I was studying jazz music, but I was a DJ on the side. And sometimes I would bring turntables into the school studio, you know? Um, it was such a fascinating thing for the jazz students because we were there, like, learning jazz scales and, like, the theory of music, and I'm here with my DJing equipment, you know?... at some point, actually, while I was a jazz student and a DJ, I did a, a classical play. Like, all three same time, you know, because me and a friend of to mine, uh, in the hallway at school, 'cause we were in the choir, we were singing one of the songs we, we, we sang in high school in the choir, and one of the school lecturers heard us, and she was shocked 'cause we were jazz students. She was like, "Wow, you guys, you know, this is classical music. Like, you sound so nice. There's a play that's happening at the Playhouse called the Pirates of Penzance, if you..." We're like, "Cool." So we went, we auditioned, we got the parts, so we would do jazz studies, after school, we go practice at the Playhouse. And we went to perform. We did, um, I was opening the show-

   19. NANarrator19:07

       Hmm.

   20. BCBlack Coffee19:07

       ... like I was a tenor, you know?

   21. NANarrator19:10

       (laughs)

   22. BCBlack Coffee19:10

       Um, just anything that had to do with music, so from l- from jazz when I was young, sorry, uh, reggae, then I went through different stages. Then there was a time where I was, like, obsessed with, like, fusion, um, then gospel music-

   23. NANarrator19:30

       (laughs)

   24. BCBlack Coffee19:30

       ... then, like, classical music, so. And I didn't understand what I was being prepared for, you know, all these years I kept being exposed to different types. And I'm a DJ, so then my taste varies based on understanding these different genres. That's why I was able to, in 2010, do a show with a 24-piece orchestra.

   25. NANarrator19:52

       Mm-hmm.

   26. BCBlack Coffee19:53

       Because-

   27. NANarrator19:54

       8,000 people?

   28. BCBlack Coffee19:55

       Yeah, in the stadium. So, 'cause I was exposed to this music, and I knew where to bridge, you know, the gap.

5. 20:02 – 32:36

   The most pivotal day of your life

   1. BCBlack Coffee20:02

   2. NANarrator20:02

      The 10th of February, pivotal day in your life.

   3. BCBlack Coffee20:06

      Yeah.

   4. NANarrator20:07

      Tell me about that day.

   5. BCBlack Coffee20:09

      Phew, man.

   6. NANarrator20:11

      1990.

   7. BCBlack Coffee20:12

      Yeah, I was talking to, to someone about it 'cause it's a story that, it was, for years, hard for me to share, you know? And I'm, I'm in a better space now where I'm, I'm able to talk about it. Um, strict grandmother, we're at home, uh, on the 10th, which was, like, around 8:00 at night, and she was super strict, um, no one comes at the house that late. We were sitting in the house, I think, after dinner, we hear, like, people singing outside. We all come out, everyone, I mean, comes out to see what's happening, and it was people singing, there were a group of people about to pass our house, we ran to the crowd with my cousins. You know, we were not allowed to, but this was nice, so it wasn't a big thing even, I mean, for, for her. But my cousin, my cousins went back. I didn't. Why? Music. So I followed the crowd, and the reason this was happening is because, on the 11th of February, Nelson Mandela was officially coming out of jail after 27 years, so there was, like, jubilations around the entire country. This was happening in all the major cities where people were like, "We're gonna stay up all night until the morning, you know, uh, of his release." So this crowd was going to a stadium which is close to my house. Um, that's where the, the camping was gonna be, the singing until the morning in the stadium. So they went on the streets basically gathering more crowds, and we were now close to the stadium, and just out of nowhere, we just heard this sound. Um, and it was a car, just came out of nowhere, lights off, just rammed through the crowd. Um, so I was, I was not in the front, but I was maybe, like, 20% in, and I just blacked out, um, and then people were screaming, and when I woke up, um, there was fire. You know, uh, people were angry. So basically this driver switched off the lights to literally just kill people with his car. And, um, so they bent the car, well, they burnt the guy too. And, um-

   8. NANarrator22:53

      They burnt the guy?

   9. BCBlack Coffee22:54

      Yeah.

   10. NANarrator22:55

       They pulled him out the car and-

   11. BCBlack Coffee22:56

       Yeah.

   12. NANarrator22:56

       ... killed him?

   13. BCBlack Coffee22:57

       Yeah. Literally, and he stayed there for hours actually without anyone coming for him 'cause I remember this happened around 4:00 in the morning, went to a hospital around like maybe 30 minutes later, the cars took us to a hospital. I came back from the hospital around 7:00, 8:00, he was still there. Like, not even covered. His car, it was still lying there on the ground. Um, that cost his life and someone else's life who was also in the crowd. Um, so by that time, I mean, it's 7:00 in the morning, I'm back from hospital, the announcement happens, "Nelson Mandela is finally out of jail." We're watching this from TV, I'm sitting on the couch, you know, there's just chaos in the country. People are so happy this man is finally out, and, um, I was on the couch in pain, you know, uh, after the accident, and I think what really happened to me, I don't think the car reached to me, I don't think the car...... touched me. (smacks lips) I think the force of the people that were in front, because of the impact, they pushed so hard. So what happened is, I dislocated my shoulder, but severely. I had no bruises, no cuts. It just came off, m- meaning, um, (smacks lips) my nerves that connect the arm to the body were snatched. And being in a small town, when I went to the hospital, no one knew what to do. So I'm there, I'm holding my arm, like ... They don't know if it's broken. They don't know what to do with it, you know? So they just gave me a sling, and pain tablets, and I went back home. But the pain was- couldn't stop, and then, um, the following day, then I went to Durban, which is the bigger city, to go to, like, a bigger hospital, where I stayed for three months in the hospital, you know? And even there, they didn't know what to do. One morning, they were like, "Okay, uh, we figured it out." They put a cast. So I'd have a cast for, like, two weeks, but the damage was here. (laughs) But I was a kid as well, so I didn't understand, you know? Um, (smacks lips) so it- the injury is called brachial plexus, which is, um, the damage of, of nerves. And there's nothing you can do to fix damaged nerves. They can only fix themselves, so over time ... Um, so they tried different things. (sniffs) At some point, I remember I was being taken to, like, a specialist to see if there was life on my arm. So, um, because they were thinking of amputating my arm, so they put this device that had electricity to see if, uh, it's gonna- I'm gonna feel it. And there was just, like, probably, like, 5% of life. And he was like, "No, we don't have to do it. Over time, the nerves will grow back." And that's what has happened, you know? And as a kid, I mean, I was 14, it was life-changing, you know? Um, just things I wouldn't- I wasn't able to do. Uh, um, activities, there was just, like, things I- I couldn't. I was in a music class, you know? Um, (smacks lips) so I couldn't participate when- on the piano, uh, like, lessons. And we used to play recorders and ... So I went through a phase where it really affected me, and just over time, I was like, "Actually, I have a life to live."

   14. NANarrator27:05

       When you say you went through a phase where it really affected you, what- what does that mean specifically?

   15. BCBlack Coffee27:07

       Like, why me? I mean, I mean, wh- when y- when you are born fine, all of a sudden ... And kids can be mean, so the name-calling comes, and, you know ... 'Cause also, I thought it was gonna pass, and I would, as a kid, even have dreams. You know, I wake up, I'm like, "Oh, uh, I had a dream last night my hand was working, and I was doing this," and, you know. And so to me it was like, "Maybe next week. (laughs) Maybe next month," you know, "I'm gonna be fine again." And so I went through a lot of that, you know, and then eventually acceptance. Like, "Okay, this is what it is." You know? Um, "I have to live. I have to move on." And I kinda, like, stopped thinking about it and just focused on, "What's next?" (sniffs) "How do I learn to, um, tie my shoes?" You know? Um, "I'll just wake up and do everything without calling for help." That was the most important thing for me, 'cause I didn't wanna feel sorry for myself. That's the f- most important thing where I was like, "I need to learn how to- not to call anyone for anything." Zero. Like, then that was a big thing for me.

   16. NANarrator28:34

       What's the- what condition is your left- your left arm in now, as we sit here?

   17. BCBlack Coffee28:38

       Um, it has gained probably, like, 40% movement. And, um ... Let me put it this way. When it happened, I would literally close my eyes, and I wouldn't know where it was.

   18. NANarrator28:57

       Okay. So it was paralyzed at that point?

   19. BCBlack Coffee28:59

       Yeah, the whole arm. I wouldn't know whether it's here, or here, or here, or ... you know? Um, so over time, I've started feeling things. I can differentiate between hot water and cold water. Um, and every now and then... 'Cause that's another thing, I used to do physiotherapy a lot. When I was a kid and I used to ... After school, I go and I train, and that- and that depressed me even more because I was waiting for results, you know? And I thought, "I'm training for muscle that wasn't coming." So I couldn't see anything. And when I stopped, I stopped everything. I stopped thinking about it, I stopped waiting for it to be better.

   20. NANarrator29:43

       Acceptance.

   21. BCBlack Coffee29:44

       Yeah. So, uh, even now it's like, if I woke up and it was fine, do I even need it? That's where I'm at. Like, doesn't really matter, you know? Um, I think my life has turned out, uh, exactly how it's supposed to.

   22. NANarrator30:06

       This happened to you when you were 14, but you didn't share it with the world until 2017 in a-

   23. BCBlack Coffee30:10

       Yeah.

   24. NANarrator30:10

       ... in a Facebook post?

   25. BCBlack Coffee30:11

       Yeah. Because as an artist, I just felt like I did not wanna be seen as that guy.... um, who has a disability, you know, uh, where it's like, aw, you know, like, um... I didn't want a pity party, you know? I just wanted to be understood and heard like everyone else, you know? So my first album came out in 2005. That's it. I just worked on music, released it. I used to DJ the way I do, and people used to think, "This guy plays with his hand in his pocket. What's with that?" You know, like, "He looks cool, but what's..." You know?

   26. SBSteven Bartlett31:04

       (laughs)

   27. BCBlack Coffee31:04

       And I-

   28. SBSteven Bartlett31:04

       I thought, I thought you were just the coolest motherfucker ever. (laughs)

   29. BCBlack Coffee31:06

       (laughs) Yeah. People were like-

   30. SBSteven Bartlett31:08

       Yeah.
6. 32:36 – 37:53

   Did the accident make you work harder

   1. BCBlack Coffee32:36

   2. SBSteven Bartlett32:37

      Did it make you work harder or have to work harder to get to where you are today?

   3. BCBlack Coffee32:41

      Definitely. Definitely. Uh, especially as a DJ, you know, um, because I just felt like this thing was trying to rob me of this one thing that I really, really love, and I will not allow it, you know. Um, so it made me, in that sense, not even in a sense of, "Who's gonna employ me? I'm fucked, my life is a mess." It was like, "If there's one thing I'm not gonna lose, it's music." You know? "I won't stop. I have to be a DJ. I have to. I have to." And I'm from the cassette era to the vinyl. I mean, how do you take a vinyl out of a vinyl package with one hand?

   4. SBSteven Bartlett33:31

      Yeah.

   5. BCBlack Coffee33:31

      And it, this used to stress me, and now when I look at it, I'm like, "How will I become a professional DJ?" You know? And it takes me not, or it took me not thinking. I just, like, did it, you know. Like, I'm like, "This is one thing I want to do." So I just went all the way. I, I would go to school. I remember there was a time where I would spend at least two hours every day DJing for... I didn't play for a club or... Every day, two hours of my time, because I... And I used to say this, like, "I just wanna be ready." Like, one day when someone says, "You're a DJ?" I'm gonna s- boldly say, "Yeah, I am." You know? And I look now and I play sometimes, I'm like, "Man, you're good." (laughs)

   6. SBSteven Bartlett34:26

      (laughs)

   7. BCBlack Coffee34:27

      (laughs) Like, I look at... I'm like, "Wow!" You know? Because I developed a style, you know, um, of playing that is my own, based on understanding myself and what I can do. You know? Um, I have a friend, uh, Sander, we grew up with each other, he's also a DJ, and when I started, like, back in the day, like, really when I was spending time practicing, I, I used to be really crazy. And he says this all the time, like, "They don't even know how crazy you are." Because now I don't do, I don't do anything. I just play le- less is more, you know. I'm, I'm more experienced now, but my understanding of it is, like, on, on a different level, you know? But I'm in a space where I'm like, "I don't have to do..." You know?

   8. SBSteven Bartlett35:24

      (laughs) Yeah, that's where I'm at. I think I have to.

   9. BCBlack Coffee35:27

      Yeah, yeah.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett35:28

       (laughs)

   11. BCBlack Coffee35:28

       I don't have to, because I've been there.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett35:30

       Yeah.

   13. BCBlack Coffee35:30

       It's like learning the basic course and you go to the advanced course, you know, uh, you go advance driving. Doesn't mean you're gonna come on the road and drive like you were on the advance driving school, you know? It's just understanding and knowing.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett35:49

       Hmm.

   15. BCBlack Coffee35:49

       Like, when I look at this thing, it's part of me.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett35:54

       The deck?

   17. BCBlack Coffee35:54

       Yeah.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett35:55

       Mm-hmm. Quick one from one of my sponsors. Um, super excited to announce that our new sponsor for the podcast is Intel, a brand that pretty much every single person listening to this is a user of, but in some cases, you might not even know. For those that don't know, Intel is a technological powerhouse who have been driving technology, innovation, and transformation for more than 50 years. We all know that technology has never been more important than it is today, and Intel is truly shaping the future of our industry. From keeping us connected through 5G, which we use in all of our lives every single day, to modernizing computers, to transforming businesses through data and analytics, the list goes on and on and on. I've been particularly excited to announce this sponsorship because we've been using Intel's technology throughout this building and on this podcast for some time now, and it makes our lives so much easier in so many ways, especially as it relates to producing this show for you. So head over to intel.co.uk and you can find out why they've become an essential piece of technology in my day-to-day routine. Let me know what you think.My girlfriend came upstairs yesterday when I was having a shower, and she said to me that she'd tried the Huel protein shake, which lives on my fridge over there, and she said, "It's amazing. Low calories. You get your 20-odd grams of protein. You get your 26 vitamins and minerals, and it's nutritionally complete." In the protein space, there's lots of things, but it's hard to find something that is nice, especially when consumed just with water, and that is nutritionally complete, and that has about 100 gr- calories in total, while also giving you your 20 grams of protein. If you haven't tried the Huel protein product, do give it a try. The salted caramel one, if you put some ice cubes in it, and you put it in a blender, and you try it, is as good as pretty much any milkshake on the market, just mixed with water. It's been a game-changer for me, because I'm trying to drop my calorie intake, and I'm trying to be a little bit more healthy with my diet. So this is where Huel fits in my life. Thank you, Huel, for making a product that I actually like. The salted caramel is my favorite. I've got the banana one here, which is the one my girlfriend likes, but for me, salted caramel is the one.

7. 37:53 – 41:43

   Where you were going to be in 2 years

   1. SBSteven Bartlett37:53

      (paper rustles) When you were asked, I think you were, you were in your early 20s. They asked you, you know, I think you'd just... Was that around the time you'd done the Red Bull? Um, uh, your, your early 20s, they asked you in an interview where you were gonna be in two years.

   2. BCBlack Coffee38:05

      Oh, man.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett38:07

      Do you remember?

   4. BCBlack Coffee38:07

      That was a scary thing for me. Um, I remember that. I'll never forget it. You know, I don't think that was me talking. You know, I just, um, it was, it was black coffee. (laughs)

   5. SBSteven Bartlett38:24

      (laughs)

   6. BCBlack Coffee38:24

      Someone I wasn't yet, you know. Um, 'cause I, I was never that guy. You know, I, I didn't, I didn't have, I don't wanna insult my schools and say I didn't have the right education. But, you know, I look at my kids' schools where they go to, they learn public speaking. They know how to present themselves, and they know how to get across a point, a point across. They know how to speak, and I'm, I'm not from there. Everything that I kinda like have, I had to figure it out myself. You know, and so doing an interview then, being asked this question, and at the worst time of my life then, and give, and, and to give that answer, 'cause the question was, "Where do you see yourself?" And I said, they said, "In two years," and I said, "In five years," just gave myself time, I said, "In five years, I'm gonna be one of the most important producers..." I don't know if I said of the continent or the country. You know, which, actually, I'm proud of that, because it coulda been worse. You know, I could've said, "I, I'm gonna be number one. I'm gonna be the baddest motherfucker." I would- I would've said something crazy, like pompous. You know, my answer was still, like, very modest, and, but I was clear about what I wanted, you know. Uh, but after saying it, I freaked out, 'cause then I realized I need to own this. I need to own it, and I need to then start working towards it, you know. And yeah, and then two years later, which was the question, I released my album, and I won my first award for best album, you know, which was low-key, then I was the best producer in the genre in the country, you know. Uh, but I think, I don't know, like, if it's the awards that drive me or, uh, just success itself, 'cause there's the narratives that, "Oh, he's probably," like, I get a Grammy, they're like, "He wants something more. He wants more. He wants more." And I don't think I look at things like that. I think I just know that, um, I can do more than an award. I can do more than an achievement. I can do more than, you know, I'm capable. That's it. That's what I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm fighting for, you know. Uh, and it's the little boy in me who was milking cows, who had no friends, who was like, "I can," especially coming from where I come from, and that's it. It's never really about, uh, I'm the smartest one, and I'm, I'm gonna be the best one. Uh, I'm the most gifted one. It's just like, I started with nothing. I'm from, like, nowhere, really. Like, so, and I had nothing to lose, you know, so I, I threw myself in, and I just wanna keep going.

8. 41:43 – 44:44

   Why you over anyone else

   1. BCBlack Coffee41:44

   2. SBSteven Bartlett41:44

      When you look back at the, you know, you said that, uh, in your early 20s. Two years later, your album wins, um, wins that a- amazing award. Your career continues to go to the moon. Um, when you look back in hindsight with wisdom, and say, "Ah," 'cause I think it's always in hindsight. You go, "That's why I got here." You've talked about the obsessiveness.

   3. BCBlack Coffee42:05

      Yeah.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett42:06

      I get that. I get the drive, the hunger. But as it relates to the creativity and the, the craftsmanship and all the other things, why you? And why not some other young, you know, South African DJ from the Eastern Cape?

   5. BCBlack Coffee42:21

      Uh, I think, um, this is what I think. It's just being intentional about what you want. Um, the people I work with, from the beginning, there's always this like, the goal is similar. We, we don't try to... I don't think we chase number one, you know. We just, we, we, we just want quality. We strive for quality. We understand the less is more concept. Um-... I've never, and I've- I've cheated this once, in my country as well. I've never gone for like a one song of the year. I- those things scare me. I just wanna release music that has the kind of substance that I love.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett43:18

      Why do those things scare you?

   7. BCBlack Coffee43:20

      Because I just feel like then you have to keep chasing the number one. So if I am this year, then I must be next year. Otherwise, then there's a deep... that's gonna come with that if I'm not. So, we do what we're comfortable with, because what we're comfortable with, we can do it again, you know, and improve it and improve it. So the goal is always the same, like not to try and go mainstream. It's just, be comfortable, you know? You can wake me up tomorrow and be like, "Can you make a song like Drive?" I'll be like, "I can." Probably better than, "Oh, I can never make that song again," because wow, you know, it's in my space, you know? Everything is in my sound bank. Everything I work with is always around, you know? And also I think now I'm clearer as- to who I am as an artist. You know, I'm more of, um, I'll say s- 65% DJ. That's where all my energy is, and then 35%, um, uh, producer.

9. 44:44 – 49:29

   Trouble with record labels telling you how to sound

   1. BCBlack Coffee44:44

   2. SBSteven Bartlett44:44

      Having sat here with- with Diplo and other, um, artists, Jessie J-

   3. BCBlack Coffee44:49

      Yeah.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett44:49

      ... um, the boys from One Direction, Liam Payne, what I heard over and over again from them is that with success in music, there becomes more authority figures, record labels, et cetera, telling you how you should sound, and telling you that if you sound like this, then you'll get a number one, and it will be mainstream, et cetera, et cetera. How important over the course of your career, as you look back, has it been to try and stay true to yourself despite the temptation to fit someone's-

   5. BCBlack Coffee45:18

      That's an easy part for us, you know, because first of all, what am I looking for? Like, what I just explained to you now as being, um, more DJ than a producer. So DJing pays our bills. That's our core business, therefore that's where we're gonna be strongest. And releasing music is the second part of the business. Um, so it being the second past- part of the business means it's not the main thing. And so there's no pressure in then following all the trends that come and- and I've been quite fortunate, uh, in my career from the beginning when I released my first album, I released it with a licensing deal, meaning I did it on my own, and I submitted, you know, to a label, so no one could say-

   6. SBSteven Bartlett46:21

      (laughs)

   7. BCBlack Coffee46:22

      ... "We don't like number five. Take out number seven. Don't you wanna fix number two?" You know, it was a done and packaged album, and that's been the nature of my production career, where the last album that I did was the first album with a- a label in the US where there was that, um, authority, you know, and it would mostly come as, "Mm, we're not sure about this one." But what I did, I separated my African releases from the global releases. Therefore, when they're like, "We're not sure," I'm like, "It's okay. I'll release it in Africa where I know it will make more sense." And also it fits the sound that I'm doing, that I wanna do, you know? So I remember one of the songs I released was a song called Your Eyes with a South African artist called Chicana. Brilliant song, and they were like, "Mm-mm. Nah." I released it, and immediately after it came out, they changed their minds. They were like, "Okay, maybe not. We'll- we'll also release the song." (laughs)

   8. SBSteven Bartlett47:45

      (laughs)

   9. BCBlack Coffee47:45

      You know, because we were not following what they want, you know? And we were cool with it, you know? Um, then after I released an EP called Music is King, which was purely, purely for, like, the African markets, because even now, I- I don't have a label. Uh, so I don't have to have these conversations about what song I wanna do and how does it sound. Um, but still when I do, my team knows I wanna separate the two. Africa must be on its own, because one day I may wake up and be like, "I've always been a fan of Salif Keita. I wanna do a song with Salif Keita." And when you do a song with Salif Keita, being a Grammy-winning artist, if you put that song on an album, that album might not be nominated on the dance electronic album, because the language is foreign. They will take that album and shelve it with the world music. That means you're competing against your African brothers and sisters, which is what I really hate. So my point is, I then separate the two. If I wanna do a single with an African artist, I can do that.... if you wanna do, like, a Grammy-quality kind of work, I can still do it. But I'm fortunate not to have those kind of gatekeepers and authority that tell me no. And I can understand with, with the Diplos and them, you know, their, their structures are different. But we, we fortunate to, we, we've structured

10. 49:29 – 52:28

    How many show have you done this year

    1. BCBlack Coffee49:29

       our things well.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett49:30

       How many shows? So, you said 60% DJing. How many shows do you do in a busy year?

    3. BCBlack Coffee49:38

       I don't know, man. Um, Ibiza, this summer I think I did 21. Just Ibiza alone.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett49:46

       Qu- all Saturdays at Hi! right?

    5. BCBlack Coffee49:47

       Yeah.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett49:48

       Yeah, yeah. I was there for two of them, so.

    7. BCBlack Coffee49:49

       Yeah.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett49:50

       A good time, yeah.

    9. BCBlack Coffee49:50

       Just Saturdays alone in Ibiza, like, 21 of them. And Southern then since May, so meaning every, uh, w- weekend, Thursday, Friday, I'm somewhere else, Sunday I'm somewhere else. Every weekend.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett50:08

        Every weekend?

    11. BCBlack Coffee50:10

        Mm-hmm.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett50:10

        So Thursday, Friday, Saturday-

    13. BCBlack Coffee50:12

        And Sunday.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett50:12

        ... and Sunday?

    15. BCBlack Coffee50:13

        Yeah. Sometimes-

    16. SBSteven Bartlett50:14

        You're gonna be flying around.

    17. BCBlack Coffee50:15

        ... uh, that's what we do. Yeah.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett50:17

        In, in Europe?

    19. BCBlack Coffee50:18

        So before Hi! I'm somewhere else. After Hi! I'm somewhere else. Like, I had a show here on a Sunday yesterday. Um-

    20. SBSteven Bartlett50:26

        I have no idea.

    21. BCBlack Coffee50:26

        ... I have a show, I have a show on Tuesday tomorrow, you know? So sometimes it's Tuesdays, sometimes it's Wednesdays. But every summer it's like, for every Saturday, there's a Thursday and a Friday and a Sunday sometimes.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett50:41

        How many shows is that in a year though, if you were to add it up? Is it... 'Cause I read that it was more than 150 sometimes.

    23. BCBlack Coffee50:46

        Oh, it is. Yeah. Definitely.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett50:49

        That's a lot of shows. (laughs) I think I, you know, I, I had, I did my little tour of this podcast and we did nine, and I was fucking knackered. (laughs)

    25. BCBlack Coffee50:58

        (laughs)

    26. SBSteven Bartlett50:58

        We did nine shows-

    27. BCBlack Coffee50:59

        Yeah. (laughs)

    28. SBSteven Bartlett50:59

        ... in two months, and I was like, "Ha ha-"

    29. BCBlack Coffee51:01

        Yeah.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett51:02

        "... I need to wait another year before I do that." Because of the adrenaline and all the feelings-
11. 52:28 – 54:17

    Therapy

    1. BCBlack Coffee52:28

       therapy is such an important thing, you know. Uh, for us, I mean, I, I ha- I've had so many different conversations with South African artists, um, some I've had conflict with. And, you know, when we meet and try to solve the conflict, I'm like, "Let me tell you what's gonna help all of us. It's therapy." Because how do I go, um, from being that boy, you know, living in the same community, where, like, no one even looked at me, you know? And you fast-forward, I'm coming back to that same community, like, in a Lamborghini, and everyone wants their picture, and it's, um, it's a mind-fuck just to me, you know? So you need to really work on yourself when you cross that line where it's like someone you looked up to, uh, as a kid, you thought, "This guy is so successful." And you realize that actually you are the successful one. So how is the shift then, even in respecting that person? You know, 'cause then one was like, "I'm the king now." You know? Then another is like, "You're still the king. You did this before me. I'm paying so much respects to you." So the... it's, it's a very thin line between, um, seeing yourself as a king over everyone else, or knowing you are and still respecting everyone else. And that's the balance for me. And it took me such a long time, and I'm still battling, and I'm working on it, and I'm a little bit better now in understanding the difference between Natty and Black Coffee.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett54:16

       What

12. 54:17 – 1:00:31

    The difference between you (Nathi) & black coffee

    1. SBSteven Bartlett54:17

       is the difference between Natty and Black Coffee? The little boy in yourself as a DJ?

    2. BCBlack Coffee54:21

       Um, Black Coffee has all the privileges, right? Like, the, it's a joke in my house, and sometimes when, uh, I wanna go eat in a restaurant and I, I think late, I'm like, "Damn, I need to go," and, you know? And I have... I tell my sister, "Please book." And then she's like, "Oh. Well, not now." Sh- it used to happen like that. She's like, "Oh, it's fully booked." And then I'm like, "No, but just tell them who's calling."

    3. SBSteven Bartlett54:49

       (laughs)

    4. BCBlack Coffee54:49

       And then she's like, "Oh yeah, yeah. Table for two. Sorted." You know? Those are the perks of... those are Black Coffee perks, where it's like, if Natty called, the restaurant is full. It's, if Black Coffee called, there's a seat for you, there's a table for you. So Natty's the kid that grew up-... going through a magazine and seeing model girls, you know, like, thinking, "Wow, if one day I can have a girlfriend like this." Right? That's Natty, and, but Natty never had access to that, and never would, given where he comes from. But Black Coffee has access to that. So then sometimes bl- Natty uses Black Coffee, you know, to, to, to, uh, satisfy Natty, where it's like, instead of saying, "Hi, I'm Natty," it's, "Oh, you're Black Coffee." And I'm like, "Hmm, yeah."

    5. SBSteven Bartlett55:59

       (laughs)

    6. BCBlack Coffee55:59

       (laughs)

    7. SBSteven Bartlett56:00

       (laughs)

    8. BCBlack Coffee56:00

       You understand? So it's a- it's two different things, to a point where even where I live now, it's crazy, but that's how it is, where I first bought myself a house, this is with my developed full story that's not even final. I moved out of the house, so I'm like, "Life is gonna be so dope, you know, now that I'm a single guy." And I live in this apartment, and in between tours, I go back and like, "Wow." And then tour is over, I'm back home, I'm sitting, I'm like, "Is this my life?" You know, like, I just... The house I left, I'd just finished building. Now I live in an apartment like a student. Let me look for a house for myself. Then I looked for a house, and I found it. So I have the house, but now I'm like, "It's a big house, but it's lonely," 'cause I'm from family. I live alone. So I'm like, "Mom, don't you wanna move and come stay with me?" Which I think is a noble thing, you know, 'cause my mom had, like, um, a heart problem. So she moves, and then, uh, I have the warmth of the family, right? It's nice, and I'm like, "But is this my life?" Like, I live with my mother, so means I can't bring my friends here. (laughs)

    9. SBSteven Bartlett57:18

       (laughs)

    10. BCBlack Coffee57:18

        Like, I can't have a little party because my mom is in the other room. And then it bothers me so much, and I think, and I-

    11. SBSteven Bartlett57:26

        (laughs)

    12. BCBlack Coffee57:26

        ... I remember having a conversation with my friend, and I'm like, "Man, I love it, but at the same time..." I even told her, you know? I'm like, "I just feel like I could... This can't be it." You know, and I'm like, "I'm about to finalize my divorce, and I live with my mother." You know? And the most incredible thing happened. I get a phone call. Just that week when it was stressing me so much, I get a phone call. It's a number I don't know, I'm like, "Yo." And then this guy is like, uh, "My name is Michael, I'm your neighbor." And we have this long conversation on the phone, and then he's like, "By the way, I'm selling my house, and I'm going away, and we're moving to another country, and just letting you know as a neighbor." And I was like, "Oh, thank you, God." Because it was like, um, a solution. So I bought the neighbor's house. And in my crazy head, the neighbor's house, that's where my mom and the children, uh, are gonna stay. That's a Natty house.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett58:32

        (laughs)

    14. BCBlack Coffee58:34

        Right? So that's where you're gonna find me on the floor, on the grass, playing with my children. Then next door, that's the Black Coffee house.

    15. SBSteven Bartlett58:42

        I wanna come to the Black Coffee house. (laughs)

    16. BCBlack Coffee58:46

        (laughs) You know? But the thing is about the Black Coffee house, which is what... Before we started recording, you were asking me what's on my mind, and I was telling you, "Legacy, legacy, legacy." I wanna build Black Coffee House as a, like a Black Coffee house that would be, like, a future Black Coffee house.

    17. SBSteven Bartlett59:03

        Okay, not a current Black Coffee house.

    18. BCBlack Coffee59:05

        Not current, but it will be a future, "This is where he used to live."

    19. SBSteven Bartlett59:10

        Ah, okay.

    20. BCBlack Coffee59:11

        You know?

    21. SBSteven Bartlett59:11

        (laughs)

    22. BCBlack Coffee59:11

        So I'm, I'm very much intentional about the things I collect, the art on the wall, um, like, everything that I do, I'm doing to create value in the house. You know? To have Steve come to this house, and we take a picture by the pool, and it goes to the wall of- of fame.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett59:31

        Oh, nice.

    24. BCBlack Coffee59:32

        You know? So-

    25. SBSteven Bartlett59:33

        Tell me when.

    26. BCBlack Coffee59:34

        You know? Like, create this value out of it, you know? Any kind of friends that are, you know, like, are known in the world that come to visit, we- we create all the memorabilia. Even- even the suit I wore at the Grammys.

    27. SBSteven Bartlett59:48

        Mm-hmm.

    28. BCBlack Coffee59:48

        You know, frame it, and you know, so I've kept it, and the shoes, and you know, like, that's the whole idea. To kind of, like, build a, um, like, a legacy project for my kids, who are living next door.

    29. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:00

        Mm-hmm.

    30. BCBlack Coffee1:00:00

        You know, in a normal setting where, uh, they're not exposed to, or, um, their lives are normal, you know? You're not, like, having a day with the kids in the pool, and then Drake's walk... (laughs)
13. 1:00:31 – 1:02:43

    What is your happiness

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:31

       When you told me the story of going from a divorce in a house, to an apartment penthouse, to a house with your mother, to then moving next door back in on your own. It sounded to me like someone that was struggling to try and have the best of both worlds continually.

    2. BCBlack Coffee1:00:44

       Yeah.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:45

       Because, uh, y- in your own words, you were told that the best life was to be married.

    4. BCBlack Coffee1:00:51

       Yeah.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:51

       Tried that.

    6. BCBlack Coffee1:00:52

       Yeah.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:52

       Discovered that, for you, it wasn't. So you went to the, back to the penthouse.

    8. BCBlack Coffee1:00:54

       Yeah.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:55

       Which is where... (laughs)

    10. BCBlack Coffee1:00:55

        Yeah.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:56

        Mom and Dad-

    12. BCBlack Coffee1:00:56

        Which is where I was like, "Damn."

    13. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:57

        Bachelor, single, "We're about to-"

    14. BCBlack Coffee1:00:58

        Yeah.

    15. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:59

        (laughs)

    16. BCBlack Coffee1:00:59

        Yeah.

    17. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:59

        And then you're in the penthouse, you go, "Fuck, I need to be back in the house." (laughs)

    18. BCBlack Coffee1:01:02

        Back in family environment, yeah.

    19. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:04

        And then you get the mother back in, and then the mom comes in, and you go, "Fuck it." (laughs)

    20. BCBlack Coffee1:01:07

        I'm like, "No."

    21. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:08

        (laughs)

    22. BCBlack Coffee1:01:08

        Actually, no. Um, the day my divorce is signed, how do I celebrate? (laughs)

    23. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:16

        (laughs) Yeah.

    24. BCBlack Coffee1:01:17

        You know? It can't be in front of my mother. (laughs) You know?

    25. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:21

        Yeah.

    26. BCBlack Coffee1:01:21

        So you're right. Uh, but remember, it's- it's all...... the search. That's what it is, searching for happiness. And in the end, I don't think we gonna be able to find and define it.

    27. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:40

        What is your happiness?

    28. BCBlack Coffee1:01:41

        It's gonna be, um, (clicks tongue) it's not a destination. You know, it's gonna be like, um, (clicks tongue) a series of different things, you know, where boxes are ticked, you know?

    29. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:55

        If all those boxes are ticked though, are you then happy?

    30. BCBlack Coffee1:01:59

        Th- you can't tick them all. 'Cause, 'cause life is, is so long and we keep discovering things to tick, you know? And they all have different meanings, you know? Uh, (clicks tongue) which is where (clicks tongue) the s- the small boy's journey end. You know? Because if it was a small boy's boxes to tick, by now we would be done. You know?
14. 1:02:43 – 1:04:54

    Are there any words you find difficult to say?

    1. BCBlack Coffee1:02:44

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:44

       I often think that, um, I was thinking there about advice and, you know, c- a lot of that advice tends to come from our parents. But, um, (clicks tongue) I often think that (sighs) when we've come from a place of hardship, and I just think generally, I think this a lot in my own life, um, there's words that I wish I, I said or could say now to my parents. There's words that I wish I could say to my, um, my mother, my father. You spoke so lovingly at the beginning of this conversation about the role that your mother played in your life. Is your mother still with us?

    3. BCBlack Coffee1:03:18

       Yes.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:19

       She is?

    5. BCBlack Coffee1:03:19

       Yep. I spoke to her on my way here. (sniffs) She is, yo.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:25

       Are there any words that you found difficult to say to her?

    7. BCBlack Coffee1:03:30

       Um, n- not anymore. You know? "I love you" was one of them. Uh, because she... it, it was never, um, part of our family, as like an African family to have that kind of warmth and these kind of conversations. You know? Um, (clicks tongue) even, even our hugs are still a little bit awkward.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:57

       (laughs)

    9. BCBlack Coffee1:03:57

       But they still hugs, because it's never been... e- their generation didn't do that. You know? Uh, they would show you and you would know your parents love you. (laughs) The, in the best way they, they, they would do it. You know? And being a parent, I am so much aware of how I want to teach my kids to be able to say it and, like, randomly hug them, uh, because I never, you know, had that growing up. And then in the end, we are the ones who come back and teach our parents, you know? E- uh, no matter how awkward it gets, you know, teach them to say and they, then they learn even though it's like... (laughs) it's, it's not something they know. Yeah.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:53

        We have a closing tradition on this

15. 1:04:54 – 1:07:56

    The last guest question

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:54

       podcast where the last guest asks a question for the next guest. They write it in the book, they don't know who they're writing it for.

    2. BCBlack Coffee1:04:59

       (exhales)

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:00

       The, the question that was written for you... and it's funny that-

    4. BCBlack Coffee1:05:03

       Oh, oh, oh, oh.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:04

       Yeah. It's s- they've written a question for you but they didn't know who they're writing it for.

    6. BCBlack Coffee1:05:07

       Okay, cool.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:07

       Which is the most amazing thing ever when you hear this question. What is your favorite sound?

    8. BCBlack Coffee1:05:15

       (exhales) Mm, laughter.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:24

       Why?

    10. BCBlack Coffee1:05:26

        Because people laugh when they are happy. And going back to what I said in the beginning, I think, personally, that's what we're searching for. As... it's a human race, we just looking for happiness.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:45

        Thank you. Thank you for being so generous with your time. Thank you for giving me some of the best nights of my life. Thank you for, um, coming here, inspiring me. Thank you for your, your vulnerability, which I know will help so many people. And thank you just for being a creative inspiration for me. As I said, I'm, I'm trying to DJ at the moment.

    12. BCBlack Coffee1:05:59

        Yeah.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:59

        I've got my decks upstairs, so, um, I, I've read that you're looking for, you know, s- young South African talent, so-

    14. BCBlack Coffee1:06:06

        (laughs)

    15. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:08

        ... come get me. (laughs)

    16. BCBlack Coffee1:06:09

        The (laughs) South African from Botswana. (laughs)

    17. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:11

        Well, I'm south of Africa. (laughs)

    18. BCBlack Coffee1:06:13

        I know, I know, I know. (laughs)

    19. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:14

        But, yeah, thank you so much. It's, it's, um-

    20. BCBlack Coffee1:06:16

        Thank you, man.

    21. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:17

        It's been a pleasure.

    22. BCBlack Coffee1:06:17

        Thank you. Appreciate, appreciate y- uh, the invitation. It was really l- I was nervous about coming here-

    23. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:22

        Why?

    24. BCBlack Coffee1:06:23

        ... you know? Like, you know, opening up and... but it worked out well. Thank you.

    25. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:28

        Thanks. (instrumental music plays) Quick one. We have a brand new sponsor on this podcast which I'm very excited to tell you about. They're a brand called BlueJeans by Verizon, and they are a video conferencing and collaboration tool that has changed the game for our team. So, I'm so glad to be working with them. Because as you know, one of the most important things for me is when we have a sponsor, it is part of my world, it is part of my life, it is part of my company's. As someone who's on calls pretty much 80% of the day building my businesses and speaking to my teams all over the world, it's the guaranteed security that differentiates BlueJeans from all of the other options that are out there in terms of video conferencing. Their enterprise-grade security means you can protect your organization from malicious attacks and establish real trust with everyone that joins your meeting. And that is something. There are so many things that make sense and, and make BlueJeans, um, a better option than the sort of competitors out there. And I'll be talking about all of those aspects, those features, and the reasons why I use BlueJeans in the coming episodes. If you wanna check it out, you can head to www.bluejeans.com to learn more. (instrumental music plays)

Episode duration: 1:07:56