The Diary of a CEOJack Whitehall's Emotional Confession About His Dad, His Biggest Fear & His New Life!
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,134 words- 0:00 – 2:02
Intro
- JWJack Whitehall
He, he's the most loving person ever. I want him to have a relationship with my kid. I mean, that's why ... Oh, God I ... I said I wasn't gonna do this on this and (laughs) I'm, we- I'm we- I'm now getting emotional. Um. Jack Whitehall, ladies and gentlemen. (upbeat music)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Actor, writer, and award-winning comedian. You are in for a treat.
- JWJack Whitehall
Oh God, that's tequila.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What is the reason why you're a comedian?
- JWJack Whitehall
I use humor to connect with people and have always done so. Growing up wanting my dad's approval and definitely not receiving it, it dented my confidence, but it also made me like I would one day make him proud.
- SBSteven Bartlett
If people really knew you, what would they be most surprised about?
- JWJack Whitehall
I do feel the pressure and I do feel the anxiety of it all. Worrying about stuff that is not worth worrying about, a bad review, rejection, online trolls. So many times I'm just like, "Why don't I just delete all social media from my phone?" That would be such a good thing for my mental wellbeing. I have a little bit more sensitivity than vulnerable than I tell people.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you doubt yourself?
- JWJack Whitehall
Yes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What impact does that have on you?
- JWJack Whitehall
Overworking, not prioritizing family, and I'm not present when I should be present.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Roxy's pregnant now. How are you honestly feeling about it?
- JWJack Whitehall
Now I'm regretting putting this on camera.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What you are doing is incredibly high-stakes art. Why are you smirking? (laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
Oh, Steven, I've got a punchline about ... of a tramp behind a wheelie bin. I mean, that's not hard. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Before this episode starts, I have a small favor to ask from you. Two months ago, 74% of people that watch this channel didn't subscribe. We're now down to 69%. My goal is 50%. So if you've ever liked any of the videos we've posted, if you like this channel, can you do me a quick favor and hit the subscribe button? It helps this channel more than you know, and the bigger the channel gets, as you've seen, the bigger the guests get. Thank you and enjoy this episode.
- 2:02 – 9:17
Why are you a comedian
- SBSteven Bartlett
Jack, I've sat here with so many incredible comedians, and it's funny because there's an ongoing stereotype with comedians that they get into comedy for a variety of different reasons. A lot of comedians have said to me, you know, comedians themselves are depressed in some way.
- JWJack Whitehall
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Then I had Jimmy Carr say, say to me, "When you meet a comedian, you should ask him which of their parents are depressed." Um, and then I sat here with, um, one particular comedian who r- really didn't fit into any of those, um, stereotypes at all. What is the reason why you're a comedian, in your own words?
- JWJack Whitehall
I think in the most reductive way, it's because I use humor to connect with people and have always done so. And so, I think I've always enjoyed, uh, making people laugh. And that's felt to me like a great way to connect with people, whether that be in real life or my audience when I'm up on stage. And I think there are, you know, lots of different reasons that people become comedians, and there is this kind of the sad clown trope, and that's definitely one that does exist. And I think there are people that use comedy for other reasons. But for me, uh, I don't think I fall into that category necessarily. I think I have always loved comedy and stand-up as an art form, because I just really enjoy making people happy and making people laugh and using comedy as escapism.
- SBSteven Bartlett
As escapism?
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
From?
- JWJack Whitehall
Well, from, you know, it can be from whatever. Like, if you've, uh, had a bad day at work and you come and see a stand-up on stage and they make you laugh, um, bring you out of a dark place, or, um, if you're, you know, on your phone and watching the news and depressed about the world, and then you can go and forget about all of that. And, you know, it's, uh, a great way of, I think, you know, just going and, uh, completely relaxing and listening to someone else entertain you. And, uh, I think that for me, like, that's what I see my kind of duty as a comedian as.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Your parents are comedians.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I spent a lot of time watching the Wittering Wi- Whitehalls-
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
... on YouTube. Your father in particular is absolutely fucking hilarious.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
It, it ... Do you think your sort of comedic edge came from there? Or ... Because you have siblings, right?
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Who aren't comedians.
- JWJack Whitehall
They're not comedians. I mean, they're both pretty funny people and there was a lot of laughter in our household when we were growing up. And I definitely think my dad in particular was my kind of most, you know, dominant early comic influence, because again, I would watch how, uh, he used humor and how making people laugh was this way that he had to kind of unlock people, and he was an amazing raconteur, and told these incredible stories. And I watched how people would hang on his every word, and I remember being really in awe of that and thinking, "Oh, I'd love to not only amuse him, uh, when I'm able to do so, but also, you know, emulate him and try to be, um, you know, uh, someone that people enjoy the company of and the presence of." Because of my kind of like wit, I guess. And so, yeah, he was definitely like, for me, the person that influenced me the most when I was thinking, "Oh yeah, that's definitely something that I would be interested in pursuing."
- SBSteven Bartlett
When was that point where you thought, "I could pursue comedy professionally as a real job?"
- JWJack Whitehall
Um, I don't know. I don't ... I think it probably wasn't until the Edinburgh Festival, when I went to the Edinburgh Festival in my teens and saw standup comics. I mean, prior to that, like most of my...... knowledge of comedy had been stuff that I'd seen on TV and movies and Laurel and Hardy and Norman Wisdom, and that felt like, you know, hilarious but kind of very alien in a way. And then going up to Edinburgh and seeing, like, standups performing and people that were maybe slightly closer to me in age and were talking about, um, things that I could relate to. And all of a sudden, I was like, "Wow, this is, like, genuinely a viable career path." Had I known that they were probably all up there performing for a month at Edinburgh and hemorrhaging money and not filling out the venues every night... It's like a really, really difficult career path, uh, for the vast majority of comedians. But I- I was kind of young and doughy-eyed and just saw, you know, the- the- the incredible aspect of it, which is, um, you know, (laughs) the other thing that appeals to me about comedy, which is that it's a way of doing something that isn't a real job and isn't sat in an office doing something that, to me, would be kind of mind-crushingly boring. It's a creative pursuit which I think I would always have been gravitating towards.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Was there not a lot of influences in your life telling you that comedy is not a real job? Like, I- I- I remember s-
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah, definitely a lot. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Who- who were those influencers, and what were they saying, and why didn't you listen?
- JWJack Whitehall
Um, well, p- so at school, there th- I was always talking about trying to do stuff off my own bat and do sketches. And, um, taking a show to Edinburgh was my idea, and the school were very anti that at the time, and the drama teacher thought it was a waste of time. Um, my parents were very, very keen that I didn't necessarily pursue, um, a career in the, like, arts, I think, 'cause my dad was an agent and he'd looked after loads of really successful actors. But he'd also looked after a load of actors that had been out of work and had really struggled. And my mum had had a career as an actor that hadn't necessarily given her the fulfillment that I think she'd wanted it to. And, you know, she'd had some sort of bit parts on television and then had to give it up. And so they were very aware that, you know, that it was a very, very competitive industry, and so they were very keen that I make sure that I focused on my studies and have something to fall back on if I were to not make it in, uh, you know, the arts. I mean, it was a little ill-thought-through because the other passions that I had were things like art, and so I ended up going to university to study history of art, which I didn't necessarily think is, you know, of- of- of industries to fall back on. (laughs) Like-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
... art history is not the most transferrable skill. And then also, by pushing me away from, you know, going to drama school or becoming an actor, which would've been the other thing that I would've wanted to do at that age, I- I was so frustrated that I wasn't able to do that, that I went and I did the degree. And then I was like, "Oh, well, I need to perform in some way. Oh my God, I could do standup and they'll have no control over that." So then I started doing standup as my side hustle. Uh, and, you know, they pushed me into comedy which, again, is like a really, really competitive industry. And, um, you know, i- if they'd wanted me to become a lawyer or a banker, which they always claimed that they did, they went about it completely the wrong way.
- 9:17 – 12:27
Would you have done anything differently if you were your parents?
- SBSteven Bartlett
In hindsight, hindsight's such a wonderful thing. What do you think, if- if you could reverse the clocks now and you could be Jack's parents and you could make the decision for Jack at that age, that really pivotal age, what he did next in the- with the intention of accelerating his career, his happiness, his- his talent, what- what should and what would you do as Jack's parents, in hindsight?
- JWJack Whitehall
Oh, I don't know. I-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Push him towards drama school, or-
- JWJack Whitehall
No, no, no. I d- I- I think they probably- they did probably play it right-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
... (laughs) is the weird thing. In a roundabout way, it all sort of worked out okay. Um, and I don't, like, don't begrudge them for any of those decisions. Um, and they were... Which people are always surprised to hear c- (laughs) well, it's like they're- well, they're not surprised to hear it now because people have seen my relationship with my family and, you know, we have a... I- I call it a- I call it a travelog but some people have pointed out it is also almost like a reality television show where like-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
... the posh Kardashians. And so people have ver- been exposed to my family and can see that, you know, we have an unusual relationship, but we are very close. But people are always surprised to hear that it was always the case. Even when I was, you know, away at boarding school, we still had, like, a really good connection. I, in fact, always say that going to boarding school was probably quite helpful to my relationship with my parents. If anyone has seen my father, he's- he's quite... He's better in small doses. And I think-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
... having that distance from him was probably very healthy and is why we had such a good relationship. Um, so yeah, there's a lot of things where, at the time, I was like, "Oh God, why are you doing this?" And I'd... I mean, when they sent me to boarding school, I was u- I was so upset. I was like, "I do not want to go. I'm happy with my friends. I want to stay in- in London with them at this school." And I was really struggling at that school and I wasn't coming out of my shell and I hadn't found, you know, any of my kind of passions or interests and there was no one cultivating any of them. And so they looked at that and thought, "We need to do something and make a change." And they found this school, uh, in Oxford which I went round and they met lots of teachers and it had a far more kind of like, um... I- I don't know, it had like an eccentric feel. It felt like a better fit for me, but it was a boarding school. And so they took me out of the school that I was struggling in and sent me to that boarding school. And I remember being, "Oh my God," I was so upset. I was like, "No, please. Like, honestly Daddy, I don't want to go." And he said to me at the time, he was like, "Look, it's fine. If you go there and you don't like it, you can come back after a term. And I promise you, if you turn around and you tell me that, then you can come out and go back to the school that you're at in London." I was like, "Okay, well that's, you know, something that I can hold onto." And I remember-That really helped get through the first, um, term away. And then I asked him subsequently many years later, I was like, "You know, when you said that, it really helped." He's like, "I had no intention of doing that-"
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
... "Even if you had been very upset. You were there for the year. I'd got you in, it had been very hard to get you in there, and you were staying whether you liked it or not." And I don't know whether that's him sort of slightly being a n- nuisance, but-
- 12:27 – 16:03
Trying child acting
- JWJack Whitehall
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
... there may have been some truth to it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Didn't you, around that age, like 11 or something, audition to be Harry Potter?
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah. I was-
- SBSteven Bartlett
That's, that's crazy.
- JWJack Whitehall
(laughs) Yeah. I did a bit of child acting. Again, just because I was sort of adjacent to that world and I saw, you know, my dad in that industry, and my mum, and my mum was still acting back then, I was so enamored of it. So as a kid, I did want to do it, and, you know, had a few, uh, sort of quite (laughs) low-level, um, acting jobs as a child with, like, single lines in TV shows. I got dubbed in one 'cause I couldn't deliver the line properly. I had one line which was, uh, "It's not a monster, it's a rabbit." And I- and the day just developed into speech impediments, "It's not a monster, it's a wabbit," and when it actually went out, they redubbed me so it was another child's voice (laughs) coming out of my mouth.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh.
- JWJack Whitehall
So I'd had that job and then I'd had one other job where I had no lines. I had another job that I got and- and I swear this is true, but I- I'd have to- I can't remember exactly how it happened, but I- I got, like, demoted. I got cast in a part wh- which was, like, quite a good speaking role and then, like, on the day, all of a sudden, I was, it was Goodbye Mr Chips with Martin Clunes, and all of a sudden, I was, like, at the back of the class and had no lines. And I can't for the life of me understand how that happened. I mean, I was very young at the time. Maybe I was just so terrible (laughs) -
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
... that they saw me in the rehearsal and thought, "Nah, you're now, um, out of shot, right at the back." Um, and then Harry Potter, yeah. So that was around the time that obviously I was doing these little acting roles, and then there was this audition for Harry Potter, uh, and they did an open casting at my school, uh, they came with a casting director to- to- to kind of audition loads of kids, and they were doing it round the country and there was a lot of, like, uh, excitement about this 'cause obviously the book was so popular, um, and I remember calling my dad and saying, "They're doing this open casting and I'm gonna enter myself into it." And he was like, "Oh no, it's a complete waste of time." I was like, "What do you mean?" He's like, "Well, they never cast anyone at these open castings, it'll be some casting director's assistant's assistant, uh, you know, it's- it's a complete waste of time. If you genuinely want to audition for Harry Potter, I will get you in front of the casting director." So he drove down to Oxford, took me out of school for the day, got me down to London, through some connections of his, managed to get me an audition with the casting director of Harry Potter, uh, I went into the, um, casting room and completely tanked the audition, because I was not (laughs) a very good actor as a child-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) .
- JWJack Whitehall
... as is proven by the track record up until that point. I also hadn't read the book, um, because I've just never been a great reader and, uh, I'd read, like, the first couple of chapters and then got bored, and I didn't have any knowledge of the- the plot of Harry Potter, and that was exposed in the audition as well. And so it was about as bad as an audition could go, and I came out and I looked and he was like, "Yeah, I don't think you need to worry about-" (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Oh God.
- JWJack Whitehall
... about that one." And then the- I think the nice heartwarming, uh, end to this story, my dad having been, you know, outrageous in his behavior and the- the nepotism being out of control, in the open casting, uh, they cast Emma Watson as Hermione, and she did get cast from just, uh, entering through the correct channels-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
... and not calling up her dad (laughs) and asking him to get her in front of-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh wow.
- JWJack Whitehall
... the casting director, and she had that wonderful life-changing opportunity which she earned, and that's the way (laughs) that it should be.
- 16:03 – 19:31
Lacking Self confidence
- JWJack Whitehall
- SBSteven Bartlett
But I- I look at all of that and I go, that- that phase of your life, it doesn't seem like there was a ton of conv- self-belief-
- JWJack Whitehall
Uh-
- SBSteven Bartlett
... because you've got your dad- your dad sort of chiming in at parts saying, subtly saying, "The odds aren't good, son," indirectly, and then, you know, the- the being sent to the back of the classroom and the- the acting thing you do, subtle knocks.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Does that stay with you as you go into comedy? And- and is that an accurate assessment of how you were feeling at that point?
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah, I definitely was not very, um, confident at that age, um, and I was quite- I was quite odd and eccentric, and in the right company and in a safe environment and around my kind of family I think I was a little bit more confident, but at school, I certainly wasn't. I was very awkward, like, very wei- like, unfortunate looking child as well, I had huge buck teeth, um, and glasses, and, like, a cowlick, and you see photographs of me from then and you look like a kid that would not have a lot of confidence. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
And then had the, like, you know, the massive braces in my face for- for a long period of my childhood, and that made, you know, that- there was definitely a lack of confidence because of that, and, you know, the various knock backs, and- and then realizing, oh, I quite like acting and performing, and, you know, for- for years I would audition for all of these school plays and I would never get cast in anything, and so that didn't help. And- and also, you know, I guess wanting my- my- my dad's approval, which I always did, y- y- you know, right from the get go, and- and definitely not receiving it, like, that, it did- it dented my confidence but it also made me, like, I don't know, I think it gave me a kind of resolve that I would- I would one day, uh, a- achieve it, and I would make him proud and, uh, you know, because he'd been sort of dismissive, "Oh, you- you don't want to become an actor and you're never going to become an actor," that made me want to do it even more and be like, "Oh no, no, I- I really think I can do this." Um...And then with the comedy thing, the other aspect is that he was, and remains, the hardest person to crack, ever. Like, he doesn't laugh at anything. And, you know, I- I- I- I do have that, like, overriding memory that, as a kid, like, I always was desperate to try and make him laugh and to- to, like, crack him and to- to... If I could get him to laugh, like, that felt like such an achievement. And even to this day, you know, like when he comes to do shows or if I'm doing things with him, like, he's a really hard, like, tough crowd. He's got-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
... as you've seen, like a real, uh, I mean, resting bitch face.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. (laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
(laughs) I believe is what all the kids are calling it. And, uh, yeah, if I can even get, like, a smile from him, it transports me back to being, you know, 12 or 13 years old and having that same thing of, "I really wanna make him laugh."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Does... Has he had any sort of acting qualifications or anything? 'Cause when I saw him on Chatty Man-
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... with you, um, I was thinking, "Oh, God, he's an unbelievable actor. He's an unbelievable actor." Like, he's... You're right.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Just steel face.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah, yeah. No, he's had no training at all, but I guess just 'cause he does so- so little and- and gives away so little that, I don't know, that almost feels like it's performative and maybe it is to an extent. But no, he's, yeah, he's had absolutely no training whatsoever.
- 19:31 – 25:30
Climbing up the comedy ladder
- JWJack Whitehall
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
So you go off and you do the... You go up to Edinburgh. You see that-
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
That's a big inspiration for you. What happens next? How'd you go from there to d- doing shows and climbing up the comedic ladder very, very quickly?
- JWJack Whitehall
So then I, yeah, I went to Edinburgh with a sketch show with two of my friends from school and we did it, um, at The Pleasance, and we did a month in this tiny room that's now a disabled toilet. That's how small it was. Um, and there was like, you know, ten seats and us performing this sketch show. We had no idea what we were doing. It was all kind of cobbled together sketches that we'd copied from Not The Nine O'Clock News and League of Gentlemen and got terrible reviews. But, um, in the middle of it, I came out and did standup, and I'd never done standup before and I thought that standup was just something that you could do. I'd never done a gig. I literally just walked out in the middle of this sketch show and did ten minutes of standup. Um, it was described by one reviewer as Jack Whitehall appears on stage in the middle of the show and does an impression of what he thinks a standup is. (laughs) And that is a pretty fair assessment of what it was. But, um, a guy called Ben Cavy who, uh, was a producer at the time came to that show and saw me and saw that there was... I had some promise or there was something that he recognized in me that he thought, you know, I had some potential. And so I then, uh, went and met with him when I was down in London. He worked for Tiger Aspect, who... A great production company who made Mr. Bean, Catherine Tate, Benidorm, all of these shows. And with him I started developing. Um, he asked me to, uh, do tour support for, uh, Horne & Corden, uh, when James Corden and Matt Horne were doing their double act-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- JWJack Whitehall
... around the time of Gavin & Stacey 'cause he was working on a show with them and he said, "Oh, there's this guy who I saw at Edinburgh. He's really funny, he's very new, very young. Uh, y- you're doing these warmup shows of your sketch show, you should get him to come out and, uh, he could do some standup before, uh, you go on." And so I did support for them and that's how I met James and how I met Matt, who would end up being in my sitcom and, uh, James and Matt were kind of quite instrumental in me getting my first television gig as well. So, uh, they, um, they did a Big Brother's Big Mouth and they were like the guest hosts on that and they were meant to do a whole series and they had to pull out and because they'd seen me do standup for them as their warmup act, James would... Like, was very good at kind of, you know, uh, speaking to whoever the person was at Channel 4 and saying, "Oh, you know, you should get to host this show is Jack." Um, and so, yeah, I ended up doing like live TV hosting Big Brother's Big Mouth which was the show that kind of had created Russell Brand and I was... Uh, I was 18 or 19? 19. I was, I was young and very, very, very inexperienced. Like, my comic persona was, you know, all over the shop 'cause I hadn't like found my voice yet-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- JWJack Whitehall
... and I was already on TV. I got, definitely got catapulted onto television far too quickly. Like, I always say this, like, you look at like Micky Flanagan or John Bishop or any of the kind of like really established comedians. When they break and they become TV stars, they've been doing it for 10 years and they've honed their act and they know exactly who they are and you get like the finished article. When I was put on TV, I was like still basically an open mic comedian almost. I mean, I'd done paid gigs, but I was still like going on and talking in a mockney accent because I hadn't worked out what like w- like that I could be myself on stage. I was so terrified to- to go up onto a standup comedy stage and talk in my voice 'cause I was like, "They're all gonna hate me. No one's gonna want to, like, listen to some public school boy waffling on so I'm gonna have to disguise that and I'm gonna go on and I'm gonna talk like Danny Dyer." And so for the first couple of years of my, like, standup career, I'd do that and all these other comedians afterwards, they would be like, "Oh yeah, well you've got some great stage presence but you just... You haven't found your voice yet." And I was like, "Oh, well, could you, could you tell me what my voice is?" And they're like, "That's not really how it works. You need to find your voice and you'll go on a journey." I was like, "Yeah, c- just cut the Yoda crap. Like just what is my voice?" (laughs) And I found it so frustrating but that is a process that you have to go through as a comedian. You need to find your voice. And my problem was when I was trying to find my voice, they-... I, I, I didn't even know who I was as a person back then. I was 18, 19 years old. Like, I'm, like, at that age, like, I don't think you've, like, formulated who you are. And so, I was in this kind of weird, like, period of flux where I was trying all these different comic personas. I settled on this one that was, like, basically a kind of, (laughs) I don't know, like a homage to Russell Brand. It was so inauthentic. It wasn't who I was, but, you know, it gave me a kind of, a little bit of a, I guess, a li- little bit of an armor that I was hiding behind a kinda character almost, and it gave me some confidence. And so, I was, I was, I was in that kind of, like, period of my, um, like, development when all of a sudden I was doing, like, live television for the first time. And I watch some of the footage back of me from those early days, and I want to hide behind the sofa, it's so cringe. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- JWJack Whitehall
I've got this big shock of, like, electric hair, I'm wearing these skinny jeans, I look like I've just fallen out of the Hawley Arms-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
... and I'm talking in a way that just bears no correlation to, like, who, who, who I am. It was, it was, it's very strange.
- 25:30 – 26:51
Impostor syndrome
- JWJack Whitehall
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you not, do you not have imposter syndrome a- a- at all? Uh, because, you know, you've come in at 19, 20 years old to an industry w- full of, you know, veterans and people that look like they know what they're doing. (laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
At least they're playing a good job of, like, know- knowing what they're doing. Do you feel that at that young age?
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah, I think I did feel a little bit of that. Um, but yeah, I think I, I was just probably, (laughs) I don't know, so ambitious that, uh, I went into those dressing rooms, and even though I was kind of in awe of a lot of these people, again, I was just like, "Well, I really want to kind of prove myself." And every time I had a bad gig, you know, I'd always... My takeaway would be, "Well, I need to just, like, get better then, and I will get better, and I know I can get better." Um, and I, and I, uh, yeah, I think I had quite a lot of resilience. Uh, I was naive, but the naivety probably helped get through some gigs that if I'd been a little bit older, I would've been like, "Why the hell am I doing this?" And also, you know, obviously it... I mean, it helped very much that I come from a background of privilege and that I was... you know, wasn't having to support a family or pay a mortgage, and I could kind of pursue this fool's errand for a bit.
- 26:51 – 31:04
Whats a bad gig?
- JWJack Whitehall
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
What's a, what's a bad gig? You know, for, for, for someone like you, what does that feel like? What does it look like?
- JWJack Whitehall
Um, I think... Well, I've had so many bad gigs. Um, (laughs) back in the day, it was going and doing 10 minutes in a pub and performing to 20 people. You're set up to fail, really.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- JWJack Whitehall
'Cause you, it's never gonna be a stormer, because the environment is not conducive to comedy, 'cause you're in a noisy pub, fighting against a, you know, fruit machine, and s- uh, some of the people are on their phones, some of the people are sort of half-listening to you. There's, like, a tinny microphone, terrible sound system, uh, and you're going on, like, tenth on the bill and everyone's a bit drunk and you're never gonna kill that gig. And then you g- will go out and you do 10 minutes of your material and it, like, barely raises a titter, and then you've got to get on a train and drive back to London and be in your own thoughts for two hours. Like, that's pretty soul-crushing. But I don't know why. I don't know why I, like... and there were a lot of those at the beginning. I think probably because I was, like, still... At that point I was living in Manchester with all of my mates in a student house and having, like, a great time, didn't have many worries in the world, 'cause I was 18, 19, and I was going off and doing these gigs. And sometimes they'd go well and sometimes I would crash and burn. But I don't know, it just didn't, like, I didn't f- I didn't feel the pressure. That, that's what was so amazing about that period of my life, is that I just don't remember feeling any pressure. And now, if I tank a gig or I go out and, you know, mess up the BRIT Awards, I do feel the pressure and I do feel the anxiety of it all. And I, and I didn't have as much professional anxiety back then, 'cause I was sort of on a relatively upward trajectory, um, and, you know, it all felt so full of possibility. I d- I just think I was sort of unburdened by all of the kind of anxieties that I would have now as a comedian and a performer.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It reminds me of my conversation with Lewis Capaldi. He, he told me about singing in pubs in Scotland and, like, no one was really listening.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And he almost talks about it as if he would prefer to go back and do that now, because it, because there's no arenas, there's no expectations, there's no pressure. And I actually think he said on the podcast, I think he said, like, "I just want to sing in a s- pub in Scotland."
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Um, your success and his success have meant that that's, you know, that's... I w- I would say not po- it's, it's, they're certainly possible. (laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah, yeah. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
But even if you were announced a- as being in a pub, expectation would show up.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah, yeah. And I, and I do, and I, and I, and I connected with his documentary in, in, in that aspect when I watched it and saw, like, him articulate some of those elements. 'Cause that is, it is so true, and, you know, you, yeah, you, you do a show now and you're putting it on in an arena and, like, the level of expectation is so much higher and you've got to sh- shift, you know, a huge amount of tickets. There's gonna be reviewers there. You've got to entertain, like, a vast crowd. I- if it goes wrong, like, that's a news event. And back then, it, there was none of that. Like, I die in a pub, you know? (laughs) Jack Whitehall crashes and burns in the middle of an empty forest, does he make a sound.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
And my forest was a pub in Preston. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Does, does that make, does that make it less fun? Is there, like, a, a certain point-
- JWJack Whitehall
I quite enjoyed it-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- JWJack Whitehall
... in a weir- in a weird, in a wei- and I, and I still do to an extent when I'm, like, w- maybe more so now, like, when I'm working it through. There is, like, a sadomasochistic thing that quite enjoys, like, the, the tricky gigs and, like, working out why, why it hasn't worked and what I need to do to, to get it to work. Like, I do.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But, I mean, the pressure now, does that make it less fun?
- JWJack Whitehall
Oh, the pressure. Sorry, yes. Um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
'Cause you used the word professional anxieties a few times.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- 31:04 – 36:51
Worried it might all disappear
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah, I mean, tha- th- that element of it does for sure. And I don't remember feeling that when I was in my kind of early 20s. But all of a sudden, they sort of creep up on you when you're, you're in your own thoughts a lot more. Um, and constantly, like, like, I don't know, (laughs) just thinking about, uh, about, like, I just f- m- for me, it's, like, worry that it will all go away. (laughs) And, like, that's, that's always, like, the, the kind of, the great- the greatest fear is that it's just gonna stop and, and I, and I've loved doing it. But yeah, there, there are a lo- there are lots of oth- other added pressures that weren't existent when I started doing it. And I'd, I'd, I look back on it and, uh, yeah, do kind of, like, miss that head space.
- SBSteven Bartlett
A lot of people can relate to that ide- that fear of, um, worrying that it'll all go away.
- JWJack Whitehall
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
E- even, you know, people that have climbed the corporate ladder, they've gotten to a certain position, and I've seen it a lot of the times with some of my friends and even in some of my companies where people will say to me that they're just trying to kind of hang onto where they are.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And when you have that mindset, it can, it can... It seems like it can be quite unenjoyable-
- JWJack Whitehall
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... because there's that constant sort of, as you describe, anxiety. Um, but also, I, I'm not sure if everyone does their best work when they're kinda hanging on 'cause there's, there's not the sort of mental freedom to-
- JWJack Whitehall
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... fully express or to relax or take time off, so I'm not sure if we do our best work. It... Is that wha- is that what you're saying? You feel like you're... You have a constant worry that everything you've built might someday change. And I guess the more important question is where... Do you know where that's come from in you?
- JWJack Whitehall
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
That i- that idea that it could just...
- JWJack Whitehall
No, I mean, I don't know. I don't know where it comes from, but... And, and, and if... I don't know. And I, and I d- and it, and, and it's not like a cancel culture thing of, of me going, "Oh, well, I'm worried I'm gonna say something and then all of a sudden, like, I'm gonna get canceled and then I'm never gonna be able to do shows again." It doesn't... It, it's not even, like, linked to that, although obviously there is, like, (laughs) a small chance that that could happen. I don't, I don't necessarily feel like, uh, I push the boundaries in such a way that that feels likely. But yeah, I don't know how I, I've al- I, I've allowed that to sort of creep up on me. Um, and I think, I think the, the, the, the key to not, uh, allowing that to consume you is to sort of just try to refocus your mind on, like, what's important. And, you know, ultimately some of the things that are, you know, the concerns that, like, build up as professional anxieties ultimately aren't as important, as long as you're doi- uh, like, ul- ultimately, as long as I'm still doing standup and still doing what I love and still getting to, you know, act and perform, it doesn't necessarily matter, you know, how, how I'm doing that. I'm doing what I love, and, and that should be enough. And, and then also just, like, refocusing my energies on, like, my work/life balance and focusing on what's important, my relationship, family. Those are the things that make me happy. And as long as those are working, then I think I will feel fulfilled. Um, and so I think it's... Yeah, it's how I, like, frame that in, in my head.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Even from doing this, 'cause I'm, I'm not a journalist or-
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... in fact, I didn't go to podcast school or whatever-
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... I still sit here and go, "How the fuck is this still a thing?"
- JWJack Whitehall
(laughs) Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Like, how, how are people still listening to this? We admit it... I mean, Jack did productions beforehand, but you, Jack, you've never done anything like this before, have you?
- NANarrator
No.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I've never done anything like this before.
- JWJack Whitehall
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So it's all a little bit, "What the fuck is going on?"
- JWJack Whitehall
(laughs) Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Just k- (laughs) keep going.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
And hopefully nobody notices us.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Do you know what I mean? That's, like, almost the feeling. 'Cause you almost assume that all of your com- competitors or the other people that are doing it in your space, they have some certificate-
- 36:51 – 43:58
Getting caught up in the negativity
- JWJack Whitehall
I have more sensitivity, I think, than I sort of let on. I've always sort of billed myself as being quite resilient and thick-skinned, which I am to a degree, but I think there are things and elements where I am a little bit more sensitive and vulnerable than, than I, uh, than I tell people.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You and me both.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You and me both. And I think obviously in different jobs that I've had, I've had to be, I've been the CEO of the companies.
- JWJack Whitehall
Mmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So you, you kind of learn to put up a everything's fine wall.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
But some- you can be behind the scenes, like spinning out a little bit for a couple of days-
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... based on something. When you say spinning out, what does that... If I'm Roxy-
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... your wonderful partner-
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... what would Roxy observe when Jack is spinning out?
- JWJack Whitehall
That, that I'm in a sort of weird fugue state, 'cause I'm also one of those people that's just like, I'm a burier. I don't articulate a lot of, uh, of these emotions, and I, and I do- and I definitely, I don't know whether it's because of my background or my upbringing, but I'm someone that doesn't really want to burden people with them. I feel like as well as a comedian and a s- funny person, again, I like, I feel like I'm letting people down if I'm like a Debbie Downer and talking about stuff that, uh, is gonna, you know, kill the mood. I just, I'm, don't like conflict. I, I don't like, uh, to depress people. (laughs) So I think I sort of, I like, yeah, bury it all, put on a brave face, and then I'm, yeah, just maybe not quite myself. So you probably wouldn't even realize it was going on. But I think for Rox it's, it's hard because, yeah, sometimes I'm just like a little bit away with the fairies, but that's because I'm having this like (laughs) internal dialogue.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) For three days.
- JWJack Whitehall
"Is everything gonna be okay?" "Oh my God, they hate me." "No, no, no, you're gonna be fine," and that's all going on and I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, I'm fine, yeah." (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Someone said to me once, they said the people that care most about the applause, which tends to be like performers and comedians and stuff-
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... also care the most about the boos.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you, do you think that's accurate?
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah, but-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Like it's not possible just to care about one side of that spectrum.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You can't just care about the applause and then say, "Oh, boos don't matter, I don't care, I'm invincible."
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's feedback, isn't it?
- JWJack Whitehall
No, definitely. It's def- yeah, it's definitely feedback. And you know, like audiences that upset me or online trolls, I mean, I do consume quite a lot of that. If I, if I'm brutally honest with myself, I probably consume more of it than I should, um, and read it. And, and, and again, I'm like, "I think it's fine. I think it sort of bounces off me," but maybe it doesn't bounce off me as much. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- 43:58 – 47:44
Are you driven or dragged?
- JWJack Whitehall
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you, do you think... I- I've asked a few people this because when I meet someone that describes themselves as being a bit of a workaholic, I wonder whether dri- whether they are driven or whether they are being dragged. Which, which resonates more with you? Do you think you're driven, or do you think you're being dragged?
- JWJack Whitehall
I think I'm driven. I think I'm... If it... Yeah, I'm driven. I think it would be quite helpful to be dragged back a bit sometimes. (laughs) I definitely think it would be good because I have this weird career where I, I act, and I write, and I do standup as well, it's very easy to fill my entire diary all the time. Um, and if I look at a, a, like, you know, couple of months, I'm like, "I'm not doing anything there," you know. I, I was meant to be filming a movie then, and it's been delayed now, and I've got two months. I was like, "Well, I need to do standup, and I'm gonna write a script and, uh, gonna produce as well." And I have a production company, so I'm constantly developing things. And I just like... And that all comes from me. That's not people going, "Well, Jack, can we... We've got this gap. Can we do this now?" It's me going, "We can do this now, and we can fill this now, and we can develop that, and I can write this." And, and I, I cram so much stuff into, you know, my schedule. Uh, and I think, again, like, uh, you know, professionally, it might be better to, to, to take a beat sometimes and prioritize, like, taking some time off as well and having a little bit of headspace. I mean, the pandemic was weirdly a, a time when we were forced to do that, and I found, found it very helpful creatively to, to not be working all the time. And, and this standup tour, I've had longer to prepare for it than I've ever had. And I've had way more kind of headspace and space to, like, like, live my life a bit, which is so important when you're creating and you're writing, especially when you're trying to, you know, write personal material. You need to live your life. You can't be working all the time 'cause then all of your experiences are gonna be professional ones. No one wants to go and watch a standup comedian tell a load of jokes about what it's like being on set and, like, (laughs) anecdotes about, like, uh, you know, uh, script reads and whatever. Like, that's not interesting comedy material for anyone. And fame as well, I don't think is necessarily always the best, uh, kind of, you know, source of relatable standup. So, I think it's, uh, really important as a comedian to have that time to go and, like, live your life and build up some experiences and, and, and find inspiration as it naturally occurs rather than trying to force it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And on a personal level, um, that, that conversation about work/life balance and giving yourself some time and not just cramming everything into-
- JWJack Whitehall
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... the calendar, what are the consequences of you not being balanced as it relates to your personal life?
- JWJack Whitehall
The... I think I... Yeah, I, I, I, I seem to sort of... That's the perennial mistake that I make is overworking, not prioritizing friends and family, and, and then having to sort of make up for it. And I don't wanna always be making up for it. Um, and I think I'm quite good at making up for it. And, uh, you know, I then put a lot of pressure on myself. "Well, I've got to, like, see all of these people and, and make sure that I cram in a load of social situations and sneak in a little holiday there," and, and, and that... And I wish I didn't c- have that approach because then everything feels rushed. And-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- JWJack Whitehall
... and I'd prefer it not to feel as rushed. I'd prefer to, yeah, just, uh... But look, it's all gonna be fine. When the baby comes, it's all gonna change.
- 47:44 – 53:39
Becoming a dad
- JWJack Whitehall
I know.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) How are you feeling? How are you-
- JWJack Whitehall
Overnight.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How are you honestly feeling about, about... You know, Roxy's sort of five months-
- JWJack Whitehall
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... um, pregnant now. How are you honestly feeling about becoming a dad?
- JWJack Whitehall
I'm feeling excited. It's hard. It's a weird one because, like, sometimes it feels very real, and then sometimes it's just this sort of abstract concept-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Ideas.
- JWJack Whitehall
... and idea, and it feels ver- very surreal. Um, and it sort of flits between both of those things on almost like a daily basis. (laughs) Uh, and sometimes I f- feel quite overwhelmed w- thinking about it. Other times, I'm like, like barely engaged with it at all though 'cause I'm so distracted with other things. And so, it's a really weird emotional place to be in right now, like, this sort of run up to, to having a kid. And, and I've spoken to lots of friends that have been in this period as well, and a lot of them have said that that's quite normal as well. That, you know, again, there's sort of no r- right way to be feeling at any one time. Um-And, uh, you know ... And I'm bo- uh, eh, eh, th- eh, y- you're thinking a- about her and, and h- and looking after her. She's had some, like, health issues as well, and so we've had a bit of a journey to get here. And, and so there's ... It's, it's quite a, it's quite a scary period as well. Like, there, uh, uh, uh, no, I- I'm just really looking forward to the moment when the baby is born and then ... I mean, I say that like, "Then, and then you can relax." No, it's then stressful for the next, like, (laughs) like-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) 18 years?
- JWJack Whitehall
... 18 years, and so it doesn't stop then. Um, again, like, maybe I've just framed it in, in quite a, a positive way. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- JWJack Whitehall
Uh, but yeah. I'm, I, I don't know. I am ... I'm ex- I'm excited about being a dad because I never thought that I would get to it this early either. I, honestly, 'cause my dad was, you know, v- 50, nearly 50 when he had me. He really ... He was 50? I've made that ... Uh, my maths is right. 50, 60 ? Yeah, he was nearly 50, and so I was like, "Well, I'll be an old dad," you know. "I'll, you know, live my best life and then when I get to 50 then I'll just pop out a couple of kids. Be great." Um, and honest- and, and always thought that that was the case. Uh, and then ultimately started looking at friends and seeing how happy they were and my sister with her niece, and m- my niece, not her niece. (laughs) My sister and my niece, and thinking, "Oh, you know what? Maybe I, maybe I do want that." And, and then f- like, began to really, like, yearn for it, and I was lucky that I met Roxy who's just the right person and my person and, uh, we felt like we were both ready, and so yeah. Um, it, it's, it's a, it ... I think people will be surprised when they find out that I'm ... A lot of people were, w- friends and family, when I told them, I think, 'cause they just didn't think that I was necessarily ready for it. Which again, like, in my weird mentality just makes me go, "Oh, I'm gonna prove to you." You know?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Prove you?
- JWJack Whitehall
(laughs) I'm gonna show you. I'm gonna be the best dad ever, so ...
- SBSteven Bartlett
Is there a f- fear? Because I think, I- if I'm being completely honest with myself, and I don't think I've said this before, when I think about the prospect of having a child, which is again a something that I really want to do-
- JWJack Whitehall
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... and I see myself as having four kids, and I also see myself as hopefully being a really attentive, present father, there is a little bit of a thing in my head that goes, "You don't have any time as it is, Steve."
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
"So, something's g- gonna have to give, and it's gonna be your career, in some respect. Like, there's gonna be some element of reduction in your career. And maybe that's okay, but if I think about it practically, I'm already using all 24 hours in the day."
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
"So where's it gonna come from?"
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah. That's definitely a thought that crosses my mind, and i- being realistic about it as well, and not ... It's not something that you can, like, ch- just, like, sh- are you ... You're not gonna wanna sh- like, just schedule it in-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
... "I can do a little bit of family time here and then I'll go and, uh, do some, uh, you know, tour dates in Australia," or that, like ... I think, yeah, it's that, that's gonna need to be, like, a s- significant moment of, like, change because I- m- I'm not gonna want to work in the same way that I've worked. That's why this, like, yeah, this last year has felt a little bit like ... I don't know, like, it ... In, in, in my head I am definitely, like, m- mentally prepared for that. I was like, "The baby is coming in September. Uh, I'm gonna have ..." It's gonna be-
- SBSteven Bartlett
A massive tour. (laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
... a bit of a sprint there. I'm gonna do a tour and then I'm, and then I'm gonna s- and I don't wanna b- having a tour sort of like hanging over me. I wanted to do it now, and, um ... (laughs) Weirdly a lot of the comedians that I'm friends with, I was like, "Yes, I'm doing a tour and then having a baby in September." It was like, "You're gonna regret putting that tour in then." (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, yeah.
- JWJack Whitehall
You know ?
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- 53:39 – 1:00:41
Your new tour
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) And you've got this tour coming up called Settle Down.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You're doing a lot of dates in a lot of places.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) How many dates are you doing, Jack? (laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
I'm doing, I would say, at, at the time of recording, maybe 40, 50 dates.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
They keep getting added, and so-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Less than 70.
- JWJack Whitehall
... it's hard to keep count. And I actually, m- in my head mentally it would be quite good to just think of it as being 40 'cause that sounds quite manageable, but it may be a few more now.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How are you honestly feeling about it? Give me all the emotions.
- JWJack Whitehall
Uh, weirdly I'm actually kind of r- excited for it to just start and to just be doing it. Um, the, the bit that's a bit of a slog is, is the sort of build-up to it and the writing of it and the getting it all ready in time and booking all of the venues and doing the promo and talking through the design, and, you know, it's a whole, you know, production, and it's just ... And it all has to come through me. Um, it's quite hard to delegate when you're, you're, you're building something like that. And so I'm really, really excited to just be then on the road doing the shows, and that's all I have to worry about.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- JWJack Whitehall
Um, and, and I remember that, I remember this feeling before in the run-up to the show being like, "I'm just desperate for the first one to, to come about so I can then just, like, actually be doing it." And then when I'm on the road, I love it. I try to ...... and not do too long of a tour. Um, in terms of like, you know, a lot of comics will go out for like six months or a year, and I find, (laughs) I mean, you know, in a quite brutal way just after a while I just begin to hate the sound of my own voice and get bored of the material. And I don't know, I, I like doing it in quite a kind of condensed burst and, uh, you know, then like keeping some kind of like momentum going and doing a couple of shows, having a day off and a couple more shows. And, and I love it. I, I honestly, it's like I've had a long period away from it, uh, you know, four years is the biggest gap I've had between tours, and I, I'm just, I'm excited to be doing it again. And, and there, there, like I was talking to, I can't remember who it was, but I was talking to an actor, a successful actor, just about the appeal of standup and how you never really get that moment. No matter how big of a movie you, you make like you might go to a premier and it gets a great reaction and, and that's amazing and you have good reviews and it does great at the box office or whatever, but like that thrill of the live experience, I think it's why so many actors want to be musicians and end up in bands and whatnot, so they can have that like experience. And like that thing of like going out in front of a, a huge crowd and, and like having that live experience and connection with them is like the best thing in the world and it's so hard to replicate that anywhere else.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm. What's, what's influenced this, this show in terms of the jokes, in terms of the humor, in terms of your style? What, what, what are they key influences or the differences from previous tours?
- JWJack Whitehall
Well, (laughs) it was called, I, I called it Settle Down because it is sort of about this period of my life where I am settling down, becoming a little bit more of an adult. Uh, a lot of my comedy before and my previous tours it's all about being the sort of man-child and that's kind of like I guess, you know, on stage I'm this sort of foppish man baby and telling stories of drunken hijinks and putting my foot in it and gen- generally just being a bit of a sort of clown. And, and this, this show has an element of that and an element of me being self-aware enough to be like, "This is definitely the like, the last show where I can be telling those stories and maybe this is the last moment of my life where I can lean into that." And, you know, that was the sort of feckless misadventure that was my 20s and now I've entered into my 30s. I've got a mortgage and a girlfriend and a dog and a baby on the way, and I am now, you know, gonna be forced to settle down whether I like it or not. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
And so it's about this like, like this transitional moment of my life. And, you know, talking about the anxieties and the fears of that and like, "Oh my god, have I got everything out of my system?" And, um, you know, I, I don't know. Uh, so it's, it's, it's, it's a lot about that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Have I got everything out of my system? (laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
But I just don't want to... And I, I'm not having a pop at him but like maybe I haven't and then, uh, but... I don't know. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
What was I going to say? (laughs) I'll be like, I'll be like, you know, a great dad until the kid's 18 and then I'll, I'll be in what, my 50s? So I could just, I'll go like, if I haven't got it all out of my system, maybe that, that's what happens. The kid turns 18 and I'll go from like Gary Lineker to Wayne Lineker.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
(laughs) Like that and I'll have this other period when I'm in my 50s and 60s and I'm getting out and clubbing in Ibiza. (laughs) Oh no.
- SBSteven Bartlett
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- 1:00:41 – 1:05:55
What would people be most surprised about you?
- SBSteven Bartlett
out why. People see you on stage, and I always find this really interesting about comedians, because I watch these comedians, I've watched you for many, many years of my life, Jimmy Carr, Russell Howard, et cetera, um, and then when I meet these people, they surprise me. Obviously because they're not-
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... in Jimmy Carr's case, telling like filthy one-liners when they got here.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Although when Jimmy Carr did arrive, the team texted me and said, "Jimmy Carr's just walked in and cracked a joke about riding on someone's mom downstairs," so I thought, "Oh God, here we go."
- JWJack Whitehall
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
But then when he came up here, a completely different person. There is-
- JWJack Whitehall
Very thoughtful person.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Incredibly thoughtful person.
- JWJack Whitehall
Mm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What do you think people would be m- if people really knew you.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
If people really knew the Jack that Roxy, your partner, knows, what would they be most surprised about, about you versus their image of you from TV?
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah. Uh, this is something I- I think about a lot, um, th- that kind of disparity between the- the comedian that you see on stage and the comedian that is there in real life. Um, and I think I'm relatively close to the- the person that you see on television or the person that you watch on stage. Obviously, that's like a heightened version of myself, and I think the reality is, the thing that people will find most surprising is that sometimes I'm quite a quiet person, I'm quite introspective. Um, I can be a little bit shy in some social situations. Uh, I think people would be surprised at that. But then I'm also so conscious as to like, "Oh, I don't want that to ever come across as me being rude or aloof." And- and- and yeah, I get a little bit of kind of social anxiety as well. I- I- I think I definitely drink as like a crutch because I find it so much easier in certain situations that are overwhelming to have a drink, and- and I find I maybe lean on that a little bit too much. Um, so I think all of those aspects aren't necessarily things that you would look at me and think, "Oh, he's gonna have all of that going on." But I'm also... I'm aware of it, so I always feel like I don't want to be a disappointment in real life as well to people, especially, you know, fans or whatever. If I meet people and they have an expectation of me, I always feel the need to kind of, you know, not- not let them down. I think that's why I've always said it's like so much easier if you're Jack Dee, or even my dad. It's like his persona is sort of grumpy, deadpan. That's very easy to maintain in real life.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. (laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
Mine is just like overenthusiastic.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hi. (laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
Like, yeah, a clown. And I'm like, "Ugh, that is... That's quite a lot to- to maintain all of the time." And especially if you're having a bad day, or you're tired, or, you know, y- y- y- to have that spark, um, in your day-to-day life can be quite tiring.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you b- when you look back on what got you to where you are now, you're at the top table in your game. When you look back at the components that got you here, what are those components, if your s- your son or daughter was asking you for those components?
- JWJack Whitehall
Um, I would say important elements that I have... Ver- I- I- I do think, uh, I always say this to comedians, I do think you have to build a resilience. Um, and, you know, the ability to kind of learn from your mistakes and your missteps and take on board criticism and use it to get better. Uh, that's definitely an important aspect. I think recognizing people that could be good collaborators, could be, uh, helpful. I've been very lucky that I've had a lot of really, really great people around me. Um, that guy I mentioned, Ben Cavey, I've worked with him for nearly 15 years. My writing partner, Freddy. I've had some really good agents. Uh, my dad, who's been amazing and has always kind of helped advise me. And- and- and finding those- those kind of people that you can sort of work with and put round you, and people as well that will challenge you, and people that will call you out if needs be. I think if you surround yourself with the wrong people, that's a very surefire way of heading off in the wrong direction. And I feel very lucky that I've got good people around me and have always been able to find good people to put around me and- and build good relationships with people that are important. Ultimately, that's having a good judge of character as well. I think that's a really important, um, aspect. Um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Your work ethic is clearly one of them.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah, I think work ethic is good to have for sure. Um, although I feel, yeah, now (laughs) maybe I can just tone it down a little bit.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
Work ethic is good for the kind of takeoff.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
But then maybe there's- there's a different speed that you can-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Cruising.
- JWJack Whitehall
... find once you're airborne. Yeah, cruising, yeah.
- 1:05:55 – 1:13:02
Why are you so good at comedy?
- JWJack Whitehall
- SBSteven Bartlett
What else though? Because we haven't really talked about the creative brilliance in terms of what you're doing is ultimately art at the end of the day, and there's gotta be something that's separating your art form from others. Is it in the process? Is it in just a- a natural thing? Is it a- a- a muscle you've built over time? When I think about the- your- the content you've c- crafted to go on tour with... Why are you smiling like that? (laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
(laughs) Because I can't call it art.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
I can't. And I know technically it is, but it's always such a hard one with comedy because I'm like, I'm thinking of some of the routines-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
... and I'm just like, "Steven, I've got a punchline about wanking off a tramp behind a wheelie bin."
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
I mean, that's not art. (laughs) But I... If we were in America right now, I'd be like, "Yeah."
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JWJack Whitehall
But we're British and I'm like, "Oh, no."
- SBSteven Bartlett
No, but there is-
- JWJack Whitehall
No, kind.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I insist. There is a... There's... It's a talent and it's an art, and it's one that I couldn't come near. When I look at it, I look at it with such awe because not only are you... Because it feels to me like there's such a clear success or failure with every-
- JWJack Whitehall
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... line you deliver.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Whereas in every other game, even this podcast, eh, some things might be interesting, some things might not be, but there's no, there's no instant feedback on every line that I deliver. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. (fingers clicking) So I think it's incredibly high-stakes art.
- JWJack Whitehall
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And something that I could never, ever... I shouldn't say never, ever do. I could do it, but I wouldn't do it anywhere near 1% of what you could do it.So, when you think about why you're so good at it, have you b- been able to diagnose that? People hate these questions 'cause they-
- JWJack Whitehall
No.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... have to say nice things about themselves.
- JWJack Whitehall
No. I- I... Yeah. I mean, you're right that you can't, you can't, uh, like, coast it with standup because it is, it is, it is pretty brutal, that is for sure. And, uh, you do get immediate feedback on every single joke that you put out into the world. Uh, but I don't know why, why I'm any more successful at it than anyone else. Um, I don't know. I mean, I, I don't know whether I'm like the gr- w- if I look at my faults (laughs) , I'm going straight back to my faults, but I don't think I'm like the greatest writer. I think I'm a good writer and I can come up with, like, good jokes and good routines. I think I'm, I'm better, like... I'm better at, um, performing it. I, I don't know. I, I think that's something that I've learned, like, I can really sell a joke (laughs) , uh, which is maybe sometimes to my detriment because, you know, I could, could write better routines if it were... Uh, but I don't need to. I don't know. That makes it sound like I'm lazy 'cause I'm... But I, but I don't... I- I'm really, like, working the material as much as I can to try and make it as good as it possibly can be. Um, I can... I've got good, really good delivery basically. I think I'm very good at delivering, uh, jokes (laughs) .
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you doubt yourself?
- JWJack Whitehall
Yes (laughs) . (laughs) I think-
- SBSteven Bartlett
I read a quote which was-
- JWJack Whitehall
... I think that answer made that abundantly clear. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) I-
- JWJack Whitehall
Some of my material can occasionally be a bit ropey, but I can bloody well sell it. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) I read a quote, Sky News, "I am still sort of dogged by a slight sense of imposter syndrome and the feeling that at any point someone's going to come and tap me on the shoulder and tell me that I need to get on a plane and go home."
- 1:13:02 – 1:14:00
Your new film
- SBSteven Bartlett
Robots?
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah. Yeah, that's coming out this summer, um, which, uh, was a movie... Yeah. It... We shot that a couple of, couple of years ago actually. Been waiting a, a while for it to go through the editorial process, which is another element that I find so frustrating with films (laughs) , is that you film it and then it takes years for it to come out, and, uh, you've forgotten you've even done it. But, uh, I l- I... Yeah. Th- that was a gr- again, like, a great experience. Really fantastic people to work with.... writer director that I really got on with, and Shailene, who's a fantastic actress. It was having, you know, a blast working with her. And that's, again, like that's, that's one of those things where I'm like, that, that was a moment I was really happy. I really enjoyed the whole process. I was working with very good people, very nice people. It was a very happy set, a very creative environment. And, uh, yeah, like, that was one of those moments where I was like, "I'm, I'm very professionally content."
- 1:14:00 – 1:22:53
Your father
- SBSteven Bartlett
Your father, do you, um, do you think he's proud of you now? Clearly from the origin of your story, that he was a, a big sort of figure in your life that you tried to impress and please.
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah, def- I think, you know, he is proud of me and he's expressed that and, and continues to express it. My um, and my mum as well, like, they're so sweet. Um, I'm so happy that they've, you know, had this kind of second wind i- in their lives as well. Maybe with my dads it's a third or fourth wind, I don't know. But, yeah, they still come to my shows and, you know, call me afterwards and say nice things and watch me on TV. And then if it's something good, they'll text me and, you know, that means a lot still. Um...
- SBSteven Bartlett
Are you still trying to impress him?
- JWJack Whitehall
Yeah, I think so. I think so 'cause when I do something that he doesn't think is good enough, which, uh, you know, does happen from time to time, he will let me know. He's very honest and he's one of the few people that will, like, really cut through everything and just, like, be very honest with me. Um, I mean, the other thing that we haven't sort of touched upon, and again is, is, is something that's very present in my mind with all of this in terms of having a baby, in terms of, you know, trying to achieve as much as I can in my career, is that I want to do all of it with him around. And obviously I know that that's not gonna be the case forever. Uh, and so I think that, yeah, I mean that's why... Oh God, it's... I said I wasn't gonna do this on this and... I'm, uh, I'm wet, I'm now getting emotional. I, um, I wanted to have a b- a baby because I wanted him to be around to, to know my child and to spend time with my kid. Uh, I've seen how, how amazing he is with my niece. He's the most loving person ever, and so I want him to have a relationship with my kid. And then, yeah, I, I wanna do all of these things and, um, you know, have success in my career that I can share with him and he can see these things and, and enjoy them. And if the, you know... Yeah, I, I'd, I, I l- I love having him there for all of that. And, uh, so yeah, I do still think a lot about impressing him and, uh, that, it, his, his approval still means a, a hell of a lot to me.
Episode duration: 1:26:21
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