Jay Shetty: 8 Rules For Perfect Love & Amazing Sex! | E217

Jay Shetty 0:00 Most of us only do one thing with our partner, and it's watching TV. To me, it comes back down to-

Steven Bartlett 0:08 Jay Shetty. Is a former monk whose wisdom has truly gone viral.

Jay Shetty 0:13 On Purpose, the number one health and wellness podcast. He sold like a million-and-a-half books. Jay, you know how much I love you. I think we live in a world where we think sacrificing our purpose makes us a better partner, when actually it makes us more resentful, guilty, more upset. So I believe that there are four important decisions that we all get to make in life. If you can do that, everything else is gonna work. The first one is-

Steven Bartlett 0:38 Let's talk about sex.

Jay Shetty 0:39 The truth is most people are not getting any. We've lost intimacy in relationships. Great sex is a byproduct of great connection and intimacy. It's not a replacement for or a source of. I promise you, that relationship is not growing. It's actually falling apart slowly, and you have no idea. The only thing that makes you feel close to someone is when you f-

Steven Bartlett 1:00 What have you struggled with this year?

Jay Shetty 1:02 Exhales deeply. Big question. A lot of the time when I come up against any resistance, it's like, "No, Jay, you used to be a monk. If you do anything else, you're false and you're lying and you're not allowed to be anything else." Every time I'd do an interview, I'd feel like people wanted me to fail. I was just waking up feeling sick, and I just had to be alone. I don't think I've shared this with anyone. I'm at a point where-

Steven Bartlett 1:30 I just wanna start this episode with a message of thanks. A thank you to everybody that tunes in to listen to this podcast. By doing so, you've enabled me to live out my dream, but also for many members of our team to live out their dreams too. It's one of the greatest privileges I could never have dreamed of or imagined in my life to get to do this. To get to learn from these people, to get to have these conversations, to get to interrogate them from a very selfish perspective, trying to solve problems I have in my life. So I feel like I owe you a huge thank you for being here and for listening to these episodes and for making this platform what it is. Can I ask you a favor? I can't tell you how much, um, you can change the course of this podcast. The, the, the course of the guests we're able to invite to the show and to the course of everything that we do here just by doing one simple thing. And that simple thing is hitting that subscribe button. Helps this channel more than I could ever explain. The guests on this platform are incredible because so many of you have hit that button. And I know when we think about what we wanna do together over the next year on this show, a lot of it is gonna be fueled by the amount of you that are subscribed and that tune into this show every week. So thank you. Let's keep doing this. And I can't wait to see what this year brings for this show, for us as a community, and for this platform. (instrumental music plays) Jay.

Jay Shetty 2:46 What's up, Stephen. It's good to see you.

Steven Bartlett 2:50 This is a, this is a-

Jay Shetty 2:51 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 2:51 ... question that people ask so flippantly, right? Because that's just the way society is and the way we all are. But I mean this question in the most deep possible way, um, which is, how are you?

Jay Shetty 3:07 Exhales deeply. Big question. I'd say that I'm at a point, and I'd only give this answer to you, I don't think I've shared this with anyone publicly, at least right now. I'm at a point where I'm really reflecting, reviewing, and reassessing where I wanna be, what I wanna do, how I wanna give my energy. And so I'm in this really evolutionary stage in my journey, which I probably haven't felt like this for six years, which is when this all kind of started externally. And so it's been a really interesting six-year cycle, and I feel like I'm back to where I started. I definitely feel like this year, I pushed myself to limits that I never thought I could when it came to work, productivity, efficiency, effectiveness, impact. Like, the quality of the impact this year was higher, because everything else was booming higher. And at the same time, there's this natural sense of wanting to renew, wanting to reinvest in myself and grow again. It's almost like I feel like I did a lot of growing, and I poured it all out, and now I'm ready to grow again and pour that out again. But I've gotta go and refill that cup. Gotta go and rediscover what that is and what that next thing is that excites me, that drives me, that moves me to that level that brought us here today. So when you ask me how I am really or how I am deeply, I'm in that regeneration stage. But what's beautiful about it is that when you've been there before, it's a familiar feeling. Whereas when you were there for the first time, it was scary. Now I'm like, "Oh, I've been here before. I know what this feels like." I, I know how to find the tools and skills that I need. So-

Steven Bartlett 5:08 What are the symptoms of that? How do you know you're there?

Jay Shetty 5:11 I know I'm there, because-

Steven Bartlett 5:13 What have you been feeling?

Jay Shetty 5:14 Yeah. I've been feeling like I want to know where I wanna be in five years. Or which direction I wanna move in five years. And I've been looking at that question, and I've been trying to answer, and I was speaking at a conference recently in Mexico, and one of the answers was, "Jay, what's your goal for what you wanna do in the next five years?" And I was like, "My goal right now is to figure out what I want to do and what I wanna put my mind to for the next five years." And so I'm feeling a sense of accomplishment. I'm feeling a sense of arrival. I'm feeling a sense of satisfaction. And then I'm feeling a sense of hunger, and I'm feeling a sense of a search for clarity...And almost, like, I can see the next few steps, but then there's a bit of fog and haze, and that excites me. So there's a feeling of excitement that comes with that search for clarity, if that, if that helps.

Steven Bartlett 6:14 So in the short term, you can kind of see what, how things look. But then as you look at the, maybe the North Star that you're aiming at, that's a little bit less clear.

Jay Shetty 6:21 Yes. Yes. That's exactly it. And, and, but it's coming at it from a point of that's what I need to do right now, not what I have to. I think if I felt clear about it all, I don't think I would actually achieve what I want to achieve. I think I'd waste time, waste effort. I think we'd spend time being, doing stuff that didn't really excite me or move me. I think that, I think you get to a point where you know you can do something well, and you don't just want to keep repeating that because that doesn't fuel your soul, or that doesn't make you into the person who you want to become. And so while I know that I can do that, that's just not who I w- set out to be, and that's not how we got here. And so I don't want to repeat a cycle that I know I know how to repeat just because I can, when that isn't why I set out to do this.

Steven Bartlett 7:12 What is that cycle? Let's get really specific on ...

Jay Shetty 7:16 Well-

Steven Bartlett 7:16 What is that cycle that you've mastered that you think, "Do you know what? That will no longer give me that same, 'Ah'?"

Jay Shetty 7:20 You know, people, I'm, I'm probably different to a lot of people who set out and say, "I believed I would achieve this," or, "I had a certain set of goals, and I did that." I, I didn't come from that. I came from this raw passion to want to serve and hopefully uplift the world by sharing ideas that people would listen to that and go, "Oh, I have that conversation with my friend, but I never thought it was okay to say it out loud," or, "I was just thinking about that last night, but Jay just put that into words, and now I feel comfortable sharing that with my partner." And so I came at this whole thing from the approach of, how do I help the individual and the micro? And then all of a sudden, it took off and, and became this thing that was far bigger than I ever imagined and far greater than I could have ever dreamt of or built. And so what I mean by the specifics is, you've now learned how to create value for people in a certain way, whether that's with an algorithm, whether it's a pattern, whether it's, uh, the ability to communicate an idea, and then you go, "Yeah, I can either get lost in that cycle and keep delivering because it delivers." But no, that actually came from a raw desire to serve. That actually came from a place of abundant creativity. That actually came from a place of genuinely listening and genuinely compassionately giving. It didn't come from a place of patterns, algorithms, studying, and research. Like, that's not why the impact happened, if that makes sense.

Steven Bartlett 8:55 Do you ever feel like you've lost yourself in the algorithms?

Jay Shetty 8:58 I don't-

Steven Bartlett 8:59 Like, people, people know you as a master of social media, of delivering ideas via social media, value, thoughts, thinking. Um, you became a, it's, it's, you know, people see this across their lives. They become exceptionally good at something, whether it's being a lawyer or whatever, and they end up climbing and climbing, and then they kind of reinforce to continue to do that thing. Publishers give them money and say, "Do that thing you did."

Jay Shetty 9:17 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 9:18 And then they can get so far-

Jay Shetty 9:19 (clears throat)

Steven Bartlett 9:19 ... down that path that they go, "Wait a minute. Like, how did I get here?" It's a great place-

Jay Shetty 9:23 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 9:23 ... objectively, but ...

Jay Shetty 9:24 I think I wanna give myself credit, and I don't do that often, but I will for this. I think I'm gonna give myself credit, and it was something you actually raised to me last time we sat down, which, by the way, I got so much phenomenal feedback from that conversation, so thank you for letting me go there. But you said something to me last time, and you said, "Jay, you're really good at knowing when to quit." And you said that I was a serial quitter, and I'd never thought about it that way. And so you actually planted that seed in my head. And so I think what I've been good at doing every time that that's happened is I've chosen to break the cycle. So when I first started out, I was the number one page and number one creator on Facebook, and we literally left Facebook.

Steven Bartlett 10:04 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 10:05 And when I say, "Left Facebook," what I mean is I stopped creating the content that Facebook was encouraging me to create. So we used to create these sketch-like videos where we had actors, and we would cast them, and there would be this scenario. And when I first came up with that idea, it actually came from me watching comedians-

Steven Bartlett 10:21 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 10:21 ... who were creating sketch comedy, and I was like, "Oh, wait a minute, if we applied that to inspiration and motivation, that would be phenomenal." So when I came up with that idea, it fueled me. I was excited. I remember we made this video where this couple was arguing, and I gave them advice, and it was, it went super viral, and I was so excited by it. And then after doing that for a couple of years and seeing this incredible growth on Facebook-

Steven Bartlett 10:42 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 10:43 ... that format didn't fuel me anymore. And so we left it, and I said, "I don't want to be known for that format anymore."

Steven Bartlett 10:49 Why?

Jay Shetty 10:50 Because the format was owning me, right? I was being owned by having to be a specific creator giving specific four-minute pieces of advice and thought, and I didn't want to be that. I wanted to dive into building a podcast and writing a book because-

Steven Bartlett 11:08 Why?

Jay Shetty 11:08 ... I wanted long form, I wanted quality. I just felt like, I felt like there was only so much I could say. So there, there's two angles to this. There's two sides to this. One is-

Steven Bartlett 11:18 Can I just-

Jay Shetty 11:19 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 11:19 ... stop there just a second?

Jay Shetty 11:20 Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 11:20 The reason I'm asking why here-

Jay Shetty 11:21 Yeah, yeah. I love this.

Steven Bartlett 11:22 ... is because I'm thinking of Jenny, who is in a similar role in her job, who's listening to this-

Jay Shetty 11:27 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 11:27 ... and has got, like, she's just lost the love of the thing-

Jay Shetty 11:30 Yeah. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 11:30 ... which she once loved. So-

Jay Shetty 11:32 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 11:32 ... I'm trying to answer this for her.

Jay Shetty 11:33 Yeah, yeah. I love the question. I, I think that, so anytime you discover something, anytime something's new, it's attractive, you fall in love with it. And as it gets old, we only keep doing it because there's some part of it that becomes performative. So what was raw passion becomes performance. And I think performance is what drains us. Because performance now isn't a natural injection of the soul into whatever you're creating. It's this-... False acting version of that same thing. And so, I find that when I feel like I'm performing, I worry and get scared, and then I scale back. And so, I think at that point, I got to a point where I was like, "If I keep feeding the algorithm and feeding this, its performance, and the quality of what I want to give people has changed." The four minutes videos were a great window into all of the wisdom that I'd learned, and all the studying I did as a monk, and all the ideas that I'd gained. But I was like, "If I can't give that to people in a way that they can practice it..." Like, a four-minute video can give you motivation and inspiration, but a four-minute video can't help you build a habit. A four-minute video doesn't practically change your life. A four-minute video is the injection, the spark, the-

Steven Bartlett 12:52 Hmm.

Jay Shetty 12:52 ... the buzz, but it doesn't transform someone's being. Whereas, a program can do that, a book can do that. A podcast that people listen to religiously and build a habit can rewire parts of themselves.

Steven Bartlett 13:04 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 13:04 And so, to me, I was like, "I'm more interested in habit change and transformation than I am in ideas and information."

Steven Bartlett 13:13 I was, I was just thinking about why I quit Facebook as well. You, I mean, you, you quit Facebook, I think, later, but I understand why. Your success on Facebook was, you were getting billions and billions of views a month, right? Um, I was making some money, but it would... The point, the thing that I've realized from what you just said there is, when I was making those Facebook videos, I actually think they w- they might have been doing something for someone else. It's not the same as a podcast which has the depth, but I think it might have d- been doing something for someone else. But I tell you why I quit, because it was doing nothing for me.

Jay Shetty 13:43 Yes. Yes.

Steven Bartlett 13:43 A- and you think about what you were doing. So, at the start, maybe it was doing something for you. But then, as you do it 1,000 times, it feels like work. And I was just thinking about that then, because I was, I was reflecting on a study I read, that when they pay people to do something they loved, they lose the love of it.

Jay Shetty 13:59 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 13:59 The minute the motivations become extrinsic, cash, or punishment, or reward, they, people lose the love of the thing they once-

Jay Shetty 14:05 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 14:05 ... considered a hobby. Um, and I... Do you know why I was thinking that? Because I've not been able to get bored of doing the podcast.

Jay Shetty 14:11 (laughs) Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 14:11 And I thought, "Well, why? Because it does something for me still every day."

Jay Shetty 14:14 (laughs) Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 14:14 "I get to meet you, we get to..." You know. So, if it was just this podcast was going out to the masses and it required three hours or six hours of my time every week, but I didn't get to have the conversation-

Jay Shetty 14:24 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 14:24 ... I didn't get to be privy to it, maybe I'd lose the love for it.

Jay Shetty 14:26 Yeah, and I think it comes back to a part of the definition of success, which for me is, doing something that gives me joy and makes me happy-

Steven Bartlett 14:35 Hmm.

Jay Shetty 14:35 ... that as a byproduct gives other people joy and makes them happy.

Steven Bartlett 14:38 Exactly, yeah.

Jay Shetty 14:39 Like, if I can do that every day, then, then that's phenomenal. But, I don't wanna keep doing something, as you said, that has the diminishing returns for me, only to live off the validation and attention that comes from the other. And I think too many people have got caught in that cycle for too many decades. And I would like to say, we've redefined what we do every two years.

Steven Bartlett 14:59 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 15:00 Part of why I dived into love as a fascination and a subject matter, a lot of people said to me, they were like, "Jay, why are you going from meditation and mindfulness and 'Think Like a Monk' to talking about love? Like, why, why would you even do that?" And I was like, "Because that's where I am at." Like, that's something that I'm... I mean, there's lots more reasons to it that I can share more philosophically. But on a very raw, emotional level, this is what I'm fascinated about right now. And I trust that my audience, my community, the people that are following and listening and sharing and observing can trust that the journey I'm going on is one of true fascination.

Steven Bartlett 15:41 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 15:41 Uh, one of the reasons why I fought to have the cover I wanted, the fonts that I wanted, to not have my face on the cover of the book, was all of these reasons. I know if I put my face on the cover of the book that my publisher's gonna be happier. They believe it's gonna sell more. They believe that the less artistic it is, the more on-the-nose it is, the more people are gonna buy the book. My take is, I want everything I do to be art. I want everything I do to be an extension of my heart. And this is that. And so, I think I'm just at a place now where I've learned that I can trust my intuition every single time, and I want to keep doing that. I don't wanna now become more scared-

Steven Bartlett 16:21 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 16:21 ... of trusting my intuition. Someone said to me, they said, "Jay, like, don't, haven't you got to a point now where you can't take any risks?" And I was like, "No, that's completely the opposite of how I see it. I've worked this hard by taking tons of risks. This is not the point to stop taking risks. This is the point to continue to take risk, because that's what creates joy, happiness, abundance, success, and everything else I'm looking for."

Steven Bartlett 16:44 What have you struggled with this year?

Jay Shetty 16:46 (sighs) What have I struggled with this year?

Steven Bartlett 16:48 Like, over and over again. Like, "Fucking why can't I change that?"

Jay Shetty 16:51 (laughs) So, i- it's a bit of an oxymoron. And, and I kind of l- I kind of love paradoxes and kind of feel like it's always this way. It's kind of like, at one point, you know that reinvention and rediscovery is constantly needed. And then, there's the other side that I've probably banged my head against the wall a few times on, is accepting that I can't always be scrappy as I was in the beginning all the time. And I'm, and I'm intrigued as to how you feel about this, especially having built something so huge. And now, I know you're building something again. I can't... There, you know, a few years ago when I was starting out and we were building lots of things, we built things in a really scrappy, quick, fast way. We made really quick decisions. Some of them were great, some of them were terrible. Things went wrong, things went awesome. Obviously, you know, you know, the rest of it is, is history and all, all of that. But, there's a part of me, as much as I need to be reconnecting with that scrappiness, there's a part of me that needs to accept that we're not that small anymore, and that things do have impact and influence. And I think that that's, that-... paradox is something that I find myself constantly going back and forth on, because I want to be able to be scrappy, I want to be able to start things at the drop of a hat because I feel like I can. And at the same time, I've realized, "Well, no, now I need to think about a lot more people and a lot more things are affected, and this could negatively impact this, and someone here could do this," and all of that kind of stuff. And so, I think that's something that I struggle with is the balance between saying I wanna be the Jay that I was six years ago when it comes to starting new things, but I have to accept that we're not there as well.

Steven Bartlett 18:34 How many people, uh, are in your team total?

Jay Shetty 18:37 Globally, full-time, 50 people.

Steven Bartlett 18:39 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 18:39 So it's not huge. Um, but when you look at the people that work with us and the number of people it impacts and then the, the scale of all the content we create and everything, there's billions of people every month still in, in, in some capacity. And so, there's a sense of... And, and also there's a sense of, you know, you, you become a target. Like, you're not, you weren't a target six years ago. Like, no one cared. Uh, I mean, people took shots day one, like that wasn't the hard part. It's just you become more and more vulnerable in some areas, in some capacities, because now people are not looking at it as if you're starting out. They, they see what you have and what they can pick apart. So, you're, you're, you're ob- you're observant and aware of that vulnerability in a way you never were before. That doesn't make me more scared or more, uh, fearful. It just means I can't ignore it, and I think that's the balance that I'm always going on, is like, how much do you wanna operate from a place of ignorance versus awareness and proactivity?

Steven Bartlett 19:44 What's your biggest, um... Fear's an interesting word, but I'm gonna use it. What's your biggest fear as it relates to being a target? Like, what have you... 'Cause I, I mean, I've seen a s- similar thing in my life. Obviously, the, the big change in my life was when I became a dragon on Dragon's Den-

Jay Shetty 19:56 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 19:57 ... because then you're, then you're like a press target. Before, the newspapers wouldn't write about Stephen in his podcast or Stephen on social media-

Jay Shetty 20:03 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 20:03 ... but now it's "Dragon's Den star sneezes"-

Jay Shetty 20:06 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 20:06 ... "on someone."

Narrator 20:07 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 20:07 You know what I mean? It's like-

Jay Shetty 20:08 Sneezes.

Steven Bartlett 20:09 ... so, but, because there's a show there which everybody knows and recognizes-

Jay Shetty 20:12 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 20:12 ... there's a way to write the headline-

Jay Shetty 20:13 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 20:14 ... so that I became much more of a target, you know?

Jay Shetty 20:16 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 20:16 And that, that's kept me up at night. I, there, I've got emails-

Jay Shetty 20:19 Yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 20:19 ... from reporters and I've fucking shit myself about things that, you know, they said they're gonna say about me or whatever, but just being honest.

Jay Shetty 20:25 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 20:26 So...

Jay Shetty 20:27 You know, I think my life has just changed so much in the sense of, literally I was thinking about this, 10 years ago, I left the monastery. And when I look at my life over the last 10 years, and then if I look at it 13 years, including the three years I spent in the monastery, I live like a completely polar opposite life today. I went from having no money, no idea of a business, no relationship, two sets of clothes, uh, robes, and living and sleeping on the floor, and having nothing and thinking that was the rest of my life, to now being in the complete opposite point of view where we have multiple businesses, I'm married, uh, I, I enjoy fashion and my wardrobe, I, uh, I really enjoy building teams. I, I love the world I'm in. And I've grown and embraced all of that transform- transformation, because I've realized that I could only give myself, or I h- I had to be the only person in the world who could give myself the permission to be all of these things all at the same time. So, I see myself as much as a monk as I do as a manager, as I do as a marketer, as I do as a mindfulness coach. Like, I'm all of those things and I'm very happy being all of those things. But I think that a lot of the time when I come, uh, come up against any resistance, it's like, "No, Jay, you used to be a monk. You should be a monk for the rest of your life and you can never be anything else. And if you do anything else outside of that circle, you're false and you're lying and you don't, you're not the same person anymore." And I'm like, "Well, no, I, I get where you're c-" And I, and by the way, I actually don't disagree with that. I get where that's coming from and I can appreciate where that sentiment comes from, because we've all been forced to be like, "I'm an accountant, I'm a lawyer, I'm a dad, I'm a mom." We've been forced to be one thing. And I think for me, I've been on the journey of accepting all of my complexity and all of my interests and passions, and I think that that takes a long time for a lot of people to get their head around. I'm not saying that my community or my audience feels that way, and I, and I don't want to alienate them. I, I think there's a lot of people who don't even care about that. But I think when I, when I think about the idea of being a target or being... It's a lot of that where it's like, "Well, you used to be this, just be this. Like, you're not allowed to be anything else. Or, or why..." And I'm, it's like, "Well, no, but my life's changed. Like, that was a part of my journey. I'm telling you a part of my story."

Steven Bartlett 22:56 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 22:57 Uh, why can't I tell you the story that I'm at? Why do I have to be the story that I was 10 years ago?

Steven Bartlett 23:03 Does that... And this, uh, you know, th- there's several ways to answer this question, but I just want the most honest answer-

Jay Shetty 23:10 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 23:10 ... which is, does that, has that ever bothered you? Have you ever, have you ever received an, received that kind of critical feedback and it's bothered you?

Jay Shetty 23:18 Yeah. There was definitely a couple of weeks where I woke up every day in the morning feeling sick. And I've never experienced deep bouts of anxiety or... I, I've definitely experienced depression when I left the monastery and that whole period was a depressive moment in my life for sure. But post that, I was just waking up feeling sick, and for a week, I just had to be alone. And I just had to be alone and not see my friends and not see anyone. My wife was in London at the time, so I wasn't with her. And I literally just sat alone for seven days making sense of how I felt about myself. Like, I-

Steven Bartlett 23:59 What happened?

Jay Shetty 24:00 It wasn't anything specific. It was just feeling that there was a lot of...... because I wrote a book called Think Like A Monk, which I still stand by the title. (laughs) I still stand by the whole book. The reason I wrote the book called Think Like A Monk is because I didn't want everyone to have to live like a monk. And my whole point was that when you learn to think like a monk, you don't have to live like a monk, and that you can adopt the same mindsets and practices that monks have-

Steven Bartlett 24:24 Hmm.

Jay Shetty 24:24 ... in your daily life, which is what I believe I took with me. But I found that when I would do an interview, you know, the interview would be, "Oh, Jay Shetty, you know, tells you to think like a monk, but he's selling millions of books," or whatever it is, right? Or like, you know, um, (smacks lips) "Oh yeah, Jay Shetty made X amount of money through ad revenue on Facebook and YouTube, but he's talking about being a monk." And so there was this constant, like, comparison that those two things weren't allowed.

Steven Bartlett 24:52 And you were getting that straightaway every day?

Jay Shetty 24:54 Correct. And I was just like, "Why is it that I feel like when someone's sitting down with me, I constantly feel like they want me to fail, they want me to not be who I truly am? And they wanna find that angle on me constantly, because they don't wanna accept that someone who is trying to be good at heart, is doing good in the work and winning is okay." And they-

Steven Bartlett 25:19 That's not a story though, is it?

Jay Shetty 25:20 That's not a story, exactly. And I think that was hard for me because I'd always believed that people would feel your genuineness and, and, and they'd respect that. Um, you know, I think me and you have not s- we've, we've had deep time together even though we haven't, haven't had a lo- like-

Steven Bartlett 25:38 Yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 25:39 ... we wouldn't say we've had the amount of time together. But I felt very early on that I could just be myself around you, hence why I've never talked about any of what I've just said to you anywhere else, anywhere-

Steven Bartlett 25:48 Yeah. (laughs)

Jay Shetty 25:49 ... ever, (laughs) even on my own podcast.

Steven Bartlett 25:51 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 25:51 Um, because I don't like meeting people thinking they want me to fail. And I, and I d- and if anything, I close off to that, because-

Steven Bartlett 26:01 It's defense from day, from the jump.

Jay Shetty 26:02 It's defense from day one.

Steven Bartlett 26:03 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 26:03 And I've realized I don't defend myself very well, because I don't, I don't want to. I, I just wanna be who I am, and I'm comfortable with that. But that seven days was me doing all that work to process it. Woo!

Steven Bartlett 26:14 Bring me into this. Bring me into this seven days.

Jay Shetty 26:15 God, man. Stephen. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 26:17 No, no.

Jay Shetty 26:17 Only Stephen.

Steven Bartlett 26:18 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 26:18 Only with you, man. Only with you, literally.

Steven Bartlett 26:20 Br- bring me into

Steven Bartlett 26:21 those seven days, um, and what it was like. If I was a fly on the wall in your-

Jay Shetty 26:25 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 26:25 ... world, what would I have seen?

Jay Shetty 26:27 The seven days for me weren't mapped out in being seven days. Like it wasn't like, "Oh, I'm gonna take seven days-

Steven Bartlett 26:33 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 26:33 ... and this is the program I'm gonna go on." It just happened to be seven days. And for me, I'd say the first day I spent reading everything that was making me feel that way. So you're reading all the comments, you're reading the tweets, you're reading the articles, you're seeing articles come in that you've just interviewed for, and you're like, "Wait a minute, uh, tha- uh, that's been completely misconstrued," like, you're feeling this way. And, and I'd say a lot of this was, you know, UK based, not really international, to be honest, at all. Um, and, and you're feeling that way, and I was just reading all of it. I was completely immersed in it for a day, and I gave myself a day. I said, "I'm gonna let myself do it today, 'cause I wanna be informed, I wanna be aware." And, you know, you just said this to me, you were like, you know, "Jay, I didn't see any of this. I didn't even know about this," and we've talked about this before. And that's what's really fascinating, right? Like for me, that day felt like the worst day, because it felt like that's all there is, that's all I'm seeing, even though there's everything else going on. So I, I'd say the first day I spent just reading everything, and you feel terrible and horrific, and there's a part of you that feels defensive, and you're like, "But I'm not like that. Oh, I wish they could just understand this," and, "Oh, well, they just read that differently, and I b- I wish I could talk to this person who feels this way and, like, hold their hands and look into their eyes and, for them to feel my real energy. I wish they could give me a chance. I wish I could actually talk to each one of these people. Maybe I should, maybe I should actually, like, book a room and just line up everyone who feels this way about me and actually sit down with each of them and talk to them about what my passion is and who I really am as a human being. Maybe it, maybe that's what I need to do." And you're kind of doing this whole defensive and explaining, and, and that, all of that was day one. Um, maybe even day two. And I think day three and four were really the hardest, because you start to believe some of the criticism. So there's a part of you, and I think this is a good part of me, I'm, I'm happy that this part of me exists, where I have the ability to be really critical and harsh on myself to the point that I kind of embodied some of those ideas. And I was like, "May- maybe I am. And maybe I am not fully genuine. May- maybe, maybe I do have that part inside of me. Like, God, maybe I am wrong. Like, you know, may- maybe, maybe I do need to take a look at myself. Maybe I haven't, maybe I'm, maybe I'm not doing that enough."

Steven Bartlett 29:04 Hmm.

Jay Shetty 29:04 And so I'd say that was day three and four, and that was the hardest, because you're now taking someone else's words to be your worth, and you're taking someone's writing to be who you are. And so I think day three and four were just kinda processing, like, "Do I really agree with that? Am I that? What part of that is me?" I can't just sh- I never, I've never wanted to be someone who doesn't take something as feedback, like, or, or doesn't look at something or try and understand it more deeply. And-

Steven Bartlett 29:35 And anxiety, how, how'd you feel on these days? You talked about waking up.

Jay Shetty 29:38 I felt like throwing up in the morning.

Steven Bartlett 29:39 Really?

Jay Shetty 29:40 Like, waking up and feeling s- like, physically sick, uh, and, and wanting to throw up but trying not to.

Steven Bartlett 29:47 And how, and did that feeling last all day, or was it just when you woke up?

Jay Shetty 29:50 I think it was mainly when I woke up. Like it was, it was a strong feeling when I woke up, and I'd have to work through that over the next couple of hours and then get over that and then try and progress the day. And I think day five and six were making sense of what was feedback-... what was... shots fired, and what I believed about myself.

Steven Bartlett 30:24 Run me through those three.

Jay Shetty 30:25 So, the way I... And, and, and even deeper than all three of those, and I'll talk about those three, but even deeper than those th- three of those, was this idea of compassion, of why do people feel the need to do this? Like, what role does it play in their life, in our world? And why does someone feel the need to, without never having spent genuinely quality time with me, to feel any way about me? Also not knowing anyone in my universe either, so, you know... And so, so trying to have compassion and developing a sense of perspective, of what role does this play in our society?

Steven Bartlett 31:18 That's the most difficult point, um, to understand, which is... I remember someone tweeted something at me the other day-

Jay Shetty 31:25 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 31:25 ... and they just like, they just... You know, 'cause it's funny, 'cause we get, you know, so much wonderful feedback, and then some guy at 3:00 AM, he's just like, he just took a shot at me, he was like, "I wish Steve was more authentic. His PR team write all of his posts and script his podcast, and he's da-da-da-da-da-da." And the, the challenge of trying to make sense of this, this, this like statement, where it's coming from, why they felt the need to tweet it at 3:00 AM, what I've done to them, is an impossible challenge to try and solve.

Jay Shetty 31:52 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 31:52 It's a riddle that doesn't make sense. But the only way that I've come to understand it, is by looking at my own imperfection-

Jay Shetty 31:57 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 31:58 ... looking at my own jealousy-

Jay Shetty 31:59 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 31:59 ... looking at my own envy and my own-

Jay Shetty 32:01 Exactly.

Steven Bartlett 32:01 ... inadequacies and how sometimes I'm ugly, and then I go, "Um, I understand." We all have it in us probably somewhere, in the right context.

Jay Shetty 32:07 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 32:07 Especially if you've had a bad day, and the wife or the husband is giving us a hard... You know? And then I go, "I understand. I'm, I'm ugly too."

Jay Shetty 32:13 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 32:13 You know. Um, but going to those three-

Jay Shetty 32:15 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 32:15 ... those three stages, what feedback did you...?

Jay Shetty 32:19 I, I think the feedback that I've taken on is that I definitely have changed externally. Like, in the sense of, it is true that, uh, my life is very different externally very quickly. That, that's true. To me, it's not quick, because it's 10 years since I left and 13 years since I was a monk and everything. But, it is, it is quick, and it is a lot to... You know, it's been a crazy journey for me internally, let alone everyone else who's just, just watching. Um, and the feedback that maybe I should explain and p- probably why I feel so open today doing this with you and, and comfortable going there is, maybe I do need to explain my intentions more and not just do the work, and maybe I do need to spend more time giving context.

Steven Bartlett 33:16 Do you think though, because there's so many people that do the content, the helping people, the, you know, the genius stuff you do. There's so many people that do that, and they don't get the same criticism. It's the monk piece, isn't it?

Jay Shetty 33:28 It's, it's the monk-

Steven Bartlett 33:29 That feels like a-

Jay Shetty 33:29 ... piece, and-

Steven Bartlett 33:30 ... contradiction.

Jay Shetty 33:30 ... it's the monk piece and it's also the, um, the scale. I mean, it's both.

Steven Bartlett 33:36 There's people that's scaled, I'm thinking like the biggest in the world in, in the, in that game. You're, you're the biggest in the world, I, I guess in what you, in the specific thing that you do, I guess. But, is it the apparent contradiction of two labels that the s- society have given you, where they go, "Successful, rich, nice stuff." But then, yeah-

Jay Shetty 33:54 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 33:54 ...'Cause noth- it's the same with me. No one's ever gonna do it for me-

Jay Shetty 33:56 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 33:56 ... because they think of me as businessman.

Jay Shetty 33:58 Yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 33:58 So, if I was balling around in private jets and helicopters, people are gonna go, "Man." (laughs)

Jay Shetty 34:03 (laughs) Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 34:04 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 34:04 Yeah, and I'm not doing private jets and helicopters.

Steven Bartlett 34:05 Neither am I, by the way. (laughs)

Jay Shetty 34:06 But yeah. (laughs) But, but yeah, no, I think, yeah, I, I think that's a, I think that is a big part of it. And, and I recognize that that's a massive paradox. And by the way, I'm, I'm living that paradox, which is even crazier because it, there's all that, there's so much of that self-guilt and transformation that I've had to go through. I've had to rewire my deeper relationships with every aspect. Like, and, and I've realized that the monk teachings actually hold true. They're just misunderstood or misconstrued. It's kind of like when we, you know when we keep having everyone who keeps saying like, "Oh, money doesn't buy happiness, money doesn't buy happiness, money..." You know? So you've h- that, that statement's just lasted for so long. And you and I know that that's not... You know, when it comes to the monk's philosophy, the monk's philosophy was very much that everything in the world was simply energy and it could be used for something higher or could be abused. Pretty much anything in the world could, could be put into that way of thinking. But the perception is, monks don't have money, therefore it's bad.

Steven Bartlett 35:16 Mm.

Jay Shetty 35:16 But that's a simplistic version of a far deeper idea. Uh, there's a beautiful story that I love, that we would often be shared in the monastery, where the teacher asks a student, "If you could give one person £100 or give 100 people £1 each, which would you do?" And the student says, "I'd give £100 to one person, because it would be really impactful." And the teacher says, "Yeah, that's, that, there's nothing wrong with that answer, and that's totally fair. Another way of looking at it is, I'd give £1 each to 100 people because it helps me learn how to become better at giving, and it gives 100 people an opportunity to grow."

Steven Bartlett 36:03 Mm.

Jay Shetty 36:03 And so the idea is that the answer isn't whether the money's good or bad. Like, the answer some people would say is, "Well, they shouldn't give any money out at all." Like, I th- I think the idea that something is bad or evil or something is wrong is a far...... more simplistic idea than the depth of the idea that anything can be used for good or for worse. Uh, I remember that, you know, we've been able to do so many beautiful things, whether it's things privately or even publicly when... You know, my wife and I did this fundraiser for COVID for India, um, and I remember, like, it took a lot of money to just organize the fundraiser. And it wouldn't, we wouldn't have been able to do that if we didn't have what we had. And I was thinking to myself, I was like, "This is a perfect example of, like, how you, you can't... Sometimes you need the resource to pull off something that's even more powerful and big. But if I didn't have the resource and I didn't have the community, and I didn't have my audience and my fans and the people that helped us do that, it just wouldn't have been possible."

Steven Bartlett 37:00 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 37:00 And so it's kind of like this all comes-

Steven Bartlett 37:02 (coughs)

Jay Shetty 37:02 ... in and of itself, it comes together.

Steven Bartlett 37:04 I remember when we met in New York and you took me to meet the, uh-

Jay Shetty 37:07 Radhanand Swami, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 37:08 I could not say that.

Jay Shetty 37:09 Yeah. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 37:10 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 37:10 You met-

Steven Bartlett 37:10 That's why I paused. (laughs)

Jay Shetty 37:11 Yeah, yeah. You met, you met my monk teacher. Yeah, Swami is the, like the Pope title, like the-

Steven Bartlett 37:16 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 37:16 ... the equivalent of that.

Steven Bartlett 37:17 Do you remember the question I asked him?

Jay Shetty 37:18 I don't, actually. Tell me.

Steven Bartlett 37:19 It was exactly what you've just said. So I said to him, um, "There's a part of me that ha- has always had this sort of internal conflict where- whether if what I'm doing, what I consider to be selfishly, like building businesses, enriching myself, is, um, is good or bad." And I, I've always, since I was 18, I remember being sat in my room and thinking, "You know, if instead of building this business, if I just went to Africa and saved one life, would that be more of a worthy cause than building a business that would enrich myself?" And your, your teacher said to me, he said, um... And I'll never forget it. I talk about it all the time on stage, probably every month on stage.

Jay Shetty 37:53 Wow.

Steven Bartlett 37:53 He said to me, "You can't pour out for others that which you don't have in your own bottle." And I always remembered that because it's in- it's entirely true. The, the, the impact that I would be able to have now, in many areas, whether it's the donations we've done for children's cancer societies or all of the things that we've done this year, the money we've donated from... We gave away all of the money from our live tour. Um, none of those things, even like this podcast, wouldn't have been possible if I didn't fill my bottle. And my bottle isn't just financial.

Jay Shetty 38:18 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 38:18 It's skills, resources, knowledge, it's network, it's reputation. Um, and that full bottle allows you to do so much for so many others. But I do want to zoom in on something you said.

Jay Shetty 38:27 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 38:28 You said that you had to confront your ugliest side.

Jay Shetty 38:31 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 38:32 Now, this is an uncomfortable thing to do because it really... It's a, for all of us, it's quite an uncomfortable place to go to actually consider faults in ourselves. What is your ugly side, in your view?

Jay Shetty 38:43 Oh. Hmm. I think whenever anyone does this activity, you have to be... It's, it's again that balance of being highly self-reflected and open to feedback, but not getting into the harsh, like, killing yourself basically-

Steven Bartlett 39:06 Yeah. (laughs)

Jay Shetty 39:06 ... because you, it's... And it's a really, it's a really, like, interesting balance, I find, because you can easily do either. Like, you can easily defend yourself and be like, "No, no, no, I'm good. I'm a good person. I'm great." Or you can do the opposite where you're just like, "I'm the worst that ever existed." (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 39:20 Yeah. (laughs)

Jay Shetty 39:20 And it kind of... And, and that's what I'm tr- You know, as you ask that question, I'm like, "Let, let me really look at it." Um, my uglier side is that any... And I believe this is true of m- of most people, is that you're truly capable of anything. Anything. And I think my practice and my daily habit is, and has always been, to try and feed the good dog inside me. And so, I don't think I associate that deeply with my ugly side because I've just not fed it for a long time. And so I don't feel very close to it in the sense of... That doesn't mean it can't take effect on me. So, so my teachers would always say that if you feel like you're unaffected by Maya... Maya is the Sanskrit word for illusion.

Steven Bartlett 40:18 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 40:18 And illusion is considered ignorance, and that which leads to the dark side or the ugly side. If you feel that you're unaffected by Maya, you're in Maya. Right? If you feel unaffected by illusion or the dark side, you're in the dark side right now.

Steven Bartlett 40:32 Yeah, makes sense.

Jay Shetty 40:33 And it's the idea as well of, like, if someone says they're humble or practicing humility, it's like-

Steven Bartlett 40:38 (laughs) Yeah.

Jay Shetty 40:38 ... they're in ego right now. It's-

Steven Bartlett 40:39 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 40:40 ... it's not possible to think to yourself, "Oh, I'm, I'm, I'm humble," at the same time as feeling egoless. And so the idea that I feel like I just don't associate with my dark side often. But I think my dark side exists within this capacity of like, you know, the, the comparison, the envy, the jealousy, the, the ego. The... That, that's the kind of stuff that I would say that mainly I, I would grapple with. And I grapple with it on a daily basis, and I choose to grapple with it on a daily basis. We, in the monastery, we often talked about, uh, relishing the battle.

Steven Bartlett 41:16 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 41:16 That, that there was always going to be a battle. The battle was never won or lost. It was a constant relishing the battle. You just had to re-pick up the sword and have the fight every day. And so I've learned to relish the battle, and the battle is accepting that there is both inside of me.

Steven Bartlett 41:32 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 41:33 And it's a battle I have to have every day, and the avoidance or ignorance that I don't have one of the sides isn't healthy.

Steven Bartlett 41:41 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 41:42 Right? In, in my case, it's just not healthy. I can't accept that I, I have only pure intentions.

Steven Bartlett 41:47 Do you believe you'll get to a point where you've won the battle?

Jay Shetty 41:50 I don't think so. I don't think that's the goal. I, I, I d- I think, I think the moment you think you've won the battle is when you lose. I mean, there's that brilliant clip on, uh, social that's always going viral, and it's literally like... I, I forget what the line is, but I think the caption is something like, "It's never over until it's over."

Steven Bartlett 42:08 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 42:08 And it's all the moments in sports-

Steven Bartlett 42:11 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 42:11 ... where someone's felt that the ball's gone across the line or it hasn't, or the person's running thinking they're about to cross the finish line, they look over, and they lose every single time. And I think that that's a great...... image and metaphor for the idea that as soon as you think you've won, that's when you're most likely to lose, because that's when you put your guard down. And I think putting your guard down to your own envy and to your own comparison, to your own ego, is unhealthy. And I think sometimes when we see the crazy things that happen in the world, it's not because someone was made that way or built that way. It's that they let their guard down to those things. And so when I'm saying that I sat for seven days with my demons and my dark side and my unhealthiness and checked myself, I- I'm- I'm glad I did that, and I shouldn't avoid that. I shouldn't sit here and say, "No, no, no. I know I'm an amazing human being, and I'm a good intention." I know all those things. I am good-intentioned. I am someone who cares about people. I- I am deeply compassionate. I have only ever tried my best to serve and love. Those are all true. I'm- I'm very confident in that. But at the same time, I have a propensity to be egotistic, to be envious, to be jealous, to be comparative, to be competitive in a unhealthy sense. And if I'm more vigilant of that, that won't ruin it. And that's the perfect analogy that was given to us in the monastery, was we all had to plant a seed and tend to it every day, because you'd see weeds grow around it every day. And this was the exact concept that was taught to us, that when you plant a seed, weeds are gonna grow around it, and the weeds often look like the plant. They often look perfect, and you can keep watering the weeds or water the seed and pluck the weeds. And that's the daily practice that each and every one of us does. So I think every day, I sit with myself in my meditation, and I try and pluck out the weeds. And sometimes it's not plucking. Sometimes it's ripping, gripping, destroying, uprooting. Like, the weeds have gone deep. Some of these weeds are not- no longer little seedlings and little plants. Some of them have been around for years. And so there's that work that has to happen.

Steven Bartlett 44:14 Are you thinking about a particular weed-

Jay Shetty 44:16 Um-

Steven Bartlett 44:17 ... that you've really had to, like, work on and unpluck? I mean, I've got loads in my life that-

Jay Shetty 44:20 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 44:20 ... I know that you see the- it continue to rear. It continues to show up in the- the moments where you're maybe complacent-

Jay Shetty 44:26 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 44:26 ... about, you know, you think you've got it all figured out and then, "Fuck." Then we-

Jay Shetty 44:29 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 44:30 ... then we go back.

Jay Shetty 44:30 I- I think the biggest one that I probably monitor... I mean, I monitor all of them regularly, but I think it's the weed that we all have that the way we live life is the right way to live it. Like the belief that my perspective, my opinion, my priorities, my values should be everyone's, and that somehow because of that, we should all align. And I think you see that in your partner the most. Like, for example-

Steven Bartlett 45:03 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 45:03 ... my wife really values her... my value- my wife really values her mental and physical health, and so her number one priority day- in the day is making sure she's meditated and making sure she's gone to the gym. Like, those are, like, massive priorities for her, and sometimes there'll be two workouts and more meditation. And I'm coming back off of a slog day of like (laughs) working, podcasts, meetings, schedules, all this other stuff, and I've meditated, but I haven't worked out today, and I'm running around. And I think at the end of the day that I've achieved more.

Steven Bartlett 45:32 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 45:32 Like, that is a weed because I'm saying that what I prioritize is more important than what she prioritizes when it isn't. It's just different. She... Her self-worth is based on very different things than my self-worth is based on.

Steven Bartlett 45:44 Do you ever find... You know, when you're saying all of this, you're describing exactly me and my partner.

Jay Shetty 45:49 (laughs) I love that, man.

Steven Bartlett 45:50 My partner-

Jay Shetty 45:50 That's good. I'm glad.

Steven Bartlett 45:50 ... she wakes up at 7:00 or 8:00 in the morning.

Jay Shetty 45:52 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 45:52 She's built like a temple.

Jay Shetty 45:54 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 45:54 And she goes to the temple, and I- if I walk up past two hours later, she's just stretching in the temple.

Jay Shetty 45:58 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 45:58 You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 45:59 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 45:59 I'm like zooming past with like... you know, late for some shit.

Jay Shetty 46:03 (laughs) Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 46:03 And she- I just- she's just stretching in her temple. She flows. That's the way. She just flows nice and slowly-

Jay Shetty 46:07 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 46:07 ... through life, um, at her own pace, a pace that I know nothing about.

Jay Shetty 46:11 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 46:11 A pace I cannot relate to. (laughs)

Jay Shetty 46:13 (laughs) Yeah, same, same.

Steven Bartlett 46:14 So what I was gonna ask you about this. Have you ever found yourself making the mistake of exerting your- your ambition-

Jay Shetty 46:23 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 46:24 ... onto that flow s- that- you know, that pace? 'Cause I have.

Jay Shetty 46:28 Yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 46:28 I sometimes have to- j- uh- uh-

Jay Shetty 46:30 I think- I think... And I write about this in the book, but by the time I was... by the time I was with my wife and we moved in and got married and all- like, started really investing in our relationship, I think I'd seen a lot of people do it to other people. So my wife would always get people around her. She's a phenomenal chef and cook and, you know, really, really talented when it comes to food and health and nutrition. So the one thing she'd hear from everyone was, "You should start a restaurant." Like, that's all she'd ever hear is, "You should start a restaurant. You should start a restaurant." And whenever I'd s- I'd see the, like, sometimes fear, confusion, uncertainty on her face when people would say that... This is like, you know, I'm talking about, like, seven years ago, maybe eight years ago. And I would always sit with her with that and be like, "How do you feel when people say that? Like, what does... Does that excite you? Does that..." You know, if someone told me that and I had her skills, I'd be like, "Oh, that's amazing. People believe in me," right? Which is something I never really had. And she was like, "No, I just... I don't know if I want a restaurant. Like, I don't know if that's what I want to do with my skills." Like, I... She always wanted to be in pediatrics, and she wanted to help people with their nutrition and diet, and she wanted to work with individuals and work with... And now she's working with people online, and she does making... love making recipes, but does she want to build a restaurant? And so we'd always go through that cycle, and I started to realize, and- and we'd have this conversation often, that just because someone says something that's a good idea, it doesn't need to be your idea, and you don't need to chase it. And so I'd say that I don't think I've ever pushed my pace on her, because I think part of being a coach, and this is why I value coaching so deeply, is because a coach is never meant to dictate the pace of the person they work with. And so there's a chapter in the book called "Your Partner is Your Guru," and that's a really tough statement to handle. But actually, a guru...... likened to a coach, never dictates the pace of the student. So my monk teacher, who you met, wouldn't- that day in New York, would never, ever say to me, "Jay, you've been meditating for 17 years now. Why are you not a pure, perfect meditator?" They would never say that to me. Because they don't think that that's the pace at which it works. They know that I'm on my journey on my timeline. Now at the same time, I think opening up conversations. Like I will have the conversation with my wife and be like, "Uh, are you thinking about setting goals or intentions for 2023? And do you wanna talk about it? Because I'm going to be doing that myself."

Steven Bartlett 49:00 You talk about that in here.

Jay Shetty 49:01 Yeah. And I've seen that she's done that, like where my wife has opened up to some of my ideas and my ways of working because I open up it as a conversation, not as a, "Oh, by the way, these are my goals for 2023. What are yours?" Which, where it's like a, a pressure. And that's like an insecure amateur version of trying to be a coach where it's like, "Well, look what I've achieved. What did you achieve this year?" Or, "By the way, let's look at our 2022 goals and what we achieved." Like, it becomes an ego thing again. So I think for me, I've really tried my best to embody being a coach in my partnership because I see it just being healthier. When we've allowed each other's good qualities to rub off, and, and by the way, she's done the same back to me. So if I've coached her in, like, finding her drive and her passion and her purpose and, and coached her in the sense of not, like, meticulously, but, but as a friend, uh, she's done the same for me. Like when I met my wife, I was someone who's really focused on mental mastery, but I hadn't really figured out what I did for my body. I'd, I'd done a lot for my mind and my heart, but, and my emotions, but, but not for my body. And when I met my wife, like, she inculcated the b- the belly for me working out more regularly and eating more healthily. And when I met my li- wife, I was addicted to sugar. I, I still love fried food. I, I still love sodas. And my wife was just like, "This ain't happening." But again, she didn't call it out. It wasn't like a, "Oh, you're so unhealthy, you just sit around and drink." It wasn't like that. It was educating me and it was enlightening me and it was helping me change my habits.

Steven Bartlett 50:29 Inspiring you.

Jay Shetty 50:30 Yeah, inspiring me. And, and it's setting the example, right? I think setting the example is far more a beautiful... There's a quote I use of St. Francis in the book, which says, um, "You should always preach wherever you are in everything you do, and if you need to, use words." Right? The idea that your example, your, your practice is what inspires people. If you're working really hard and you're a wonderful human being, that far more makes someone want to work hard than you working hard and being a miserable human

Jay Shetty 51:04 being.

Steven Bartlett 51:05 Quick one. Intel are one of our podcast sponsors. And I wanna talk to you for a second about their Built For Business vPro platform. In today's working world, the office is pretty much anywhere, and Intel vPro means you can remotely manage, repair, and protect devices across your entire organization, no matter how large or small, giving me and my team peace of mind to work wherever we choose to. For my IT team, whether on premise or via cloud, behind the corporate firewall or not, Intel's vPro comprehensive manageability has us covered. This is something that is so important to me. I, uh, you know, I'm a huge believer in employee flexibility and trust. So having features like this are super helpful. So to find out more, search intel.co.uk/vpro, and let me know how you get on. It is that time of year again where my life becomes incredibly reliant on Huel. I'm busier than ever. I'm trying to be nutritionally complete in all that I do. I'm trying to make sure I get all of the vitamins and minerals that I need in my diet. And Huel has been, for the last three and a half years, the primary reason as it relates to my diet that I've been able to be nutritionally complete while also being incredibly productive. They've also been a sponsor of this podcast since we launched the podcast. And so I owe them a huge debt of gratitude for enabling this show. And in fact, when we hit the million milestone on YouTube with this podcast, I sent it to the founder because, um, I've never shared this before, but he actually said to me when I started the podcast, he was like, "You're gonna absolutely kill it. You'll have millions of subscribers. You'll be this big, you'll be that big. You- so many people will listen." And I dunno if I believed it, if I'm being completely honest, but he believed in us and this show, um, before we'd released one episode, which is a remarkable thing, and he gave me a huge amount of self-belief in myself. So thank you, Julian Hearne for that. But also thank you Huel for creating a product that has helped me and helped my health stay intact in my busiest days over the last couple of years. Back to the episode (paper rustles) .

Steven Bartlett 52:52 I've always wondered this. I'm gonna ask you a really tough question here.

Jay Shetty 52:54 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 52:55 If your partner got to a state where you no longer found them attractive at all, you know? I'm gonna let the viewer decide what that might look like. Right? If your partner got to that state, what would you do?

Jay Shetty 53:11 I think-

Steven Bartlett 53:12 Because they weren't taking care of themself.

Jay Shetty 53:14 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I think my honest answer would be I would like to approach that, and I believe I would because I think I've shown it in different areas of my relationship, not in the physical sense, have been the compassion of are you happy with where you are right now with that person? Are you happy in the direction that you're moving in? Is this the life you want? Is- has this been created out of pain or stress or pressure, or has this been created out of choice and out of action, right? And I think getting to understand that person's journey to that point sets you up to understand where this is going. If that person then turns around and goes, "This is exactly who I want to be, and this is the person I want to be, and this is how I choose to live my life-"

Steven Bartlett 53:59 I'm your partner.

Jay Shetty 54:00 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 54:00 What'd you say to me?

Jay Shetty 54:02 Yeah, so I, I'm going down the angle of trying to get to understand, right? Like that's, that's what I'm trying to do in this scenario.

Steven Bartlett 54:08 And if they are completely cool with everything-

Jay Shetty 54:11 Correct.

Steven Bartlett 54:12 'Cause it's you're, you're the one that's-

Jay Shetty 54:13 Correct.

Steven Bartlett 54:13 ... lost attraction.

Jay Shetty 54:14 Yeah. All I'm trying to do in that scenario, genuinely, is to understand where the person's at-

Steven Bartlett 54:20 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 54:20 ... why they're in that position, and how long they think that's gonna last. And so my, my next question would be like, "That sounds awesome. That sounds like a lot of fun. How long do you feel like that's where you wanna be?" Now your answer may be, "I feel like that's how I want to live forever," right?

Steven Bartlett 54:32 Yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 54:32 Like that's, that's the direction it's going in.... I have very little control over that.

Steven Bartlett 54:36 So what do you do?

Jay Shetty 54:38 I would then, if, if I'd explored that conversation-

Steven Bartlett 54:41 Tried to understand first.

Jay Shetty 54:43 Yes. And seen that pattern for long enough.

Steven Bartlett 54:45 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 54:45 Because, by the way, that pattern could last a week and it could be over next week-

Steven Bartlett 54:49 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 54:49 ... and that person's now guilty and shameful of... And they're dealing with something far deeper, so I don't think this can ever be, "Oh, wow, that person for a month has gone in this direct-" It's never that quick, right?

Steven Bartlett 54:59 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 55:00 If you're seeing over months and years that someone's just going on a downward spiral, they're not opening up to you, they're not opening up to a therapist, they're not opening up to their mum, their parents, their sister, they're not opening up to their- a coach, they're not opening up to their friends. Like if you're seeing no sign of, this person doesn't feel they're going in- they're doing anything wrong by their account, now you're out of options of, of controlling that. So I think there's many more layers before, "I don't think this person's right for me anymore." But I think those layers and levels are time, how long has this lasted? I think it's, who are they honest and open with? Because sometimes they may not be honest and open with you because they're embarrassed, but they're being open and honest with someone else, their family, their friends, whoever else it may be. Do you, are you aware of that? Are you, do you even know the conversations they're having? And then if you're not attracted to someone, I mean, you're well within your rights to, to move on and, and, and get on with your life. I mean, how are you gonna force yourself to... If that's an important value for you, someone would say, "But physical attraction isn't my number one value." That's totally fine too, so you would stay with that person, right? Like if-

Steven Bartlett 56:06 But-

Jay Shetty 56:06 ... that's not your number one value.

Steven Bartlett 56:08 Is there a point where you express how you feel to that person?

Jay Shetty 56:10 Absolutely. Absolutely. I think, I think after understand... I think the biggest mistake that happens, so I, I talk about this in the book, where I talk about things that you find intolerable about your partner, right? This comes under that category, that you find it intolerable that they don't take care of themself and now you're not attracted to them. I talk about going on this journey. If you love someone enough, if you care about someone enough, you will wanna go on the journey from intolerable, to understanding, to acceptance, to potentially even admiring them for who they are and where they've gone. That's the journey if you want this relationship to last. So if I find something intolerable, the next step isn't telling them how I feel. The next step is understanding why they're there, how they got there, what their reasoning is, and that takes time. That person isn't going to, on day one, they're gonna give you answers like you just gave me. On day 73, chances are someone's gonna say, "I'm feeling really bad about how I am," right?

Steven Bartlett 57:09 I'm wondering-

Jay Shetty 57:09 Or maybe not.

Steven Bartlett 57:09 ... when you tell them.

Jay Shetty 57:10 Huh?

Steven Bartlett 57:11 I- the bit I'm interested in is how you communicate how you're feeling.

Jay Shetty 57:15 I, so, I would say, and I wanna use a real-life scenario with my wife, because I think it's easier to talk about a real conversation we've had. If I felt emotionally disconnected from my wife, because we've both been traveling separately, we've both had a lot of work on, we haven't really found time to connect or be with other l- be with other deep- be with each other deeply, I often say to her, and I've said this throughout our whole relationship, I'll say to her, "Is this relationship going in the direction you want it to go in?" And that's a really open and broad question. She could say yes, she could say no. And then my second question is, "If it is going in the direction you want it to go in, what's going well?" And then I'd say, "If it isn't going in the direction you're going in, what do you need and what are you willing to do?" And then I'd follow that up with, "Do you mind if I share mine? Do you mind if I, if I share with you if I feel this relationship's going in the right direction, or how I feel?" And so once I've heard her out and seen where she's at, I'm now gonna tell her exactly how I feel. My way of saying it would be, "I've got to a place where I'm feeling emotionally disconnected. I'm feeling like, I don't feel like you're present with me, I don't feel like you're connected, I don't, I don't feel like you want to. Is that true?" And I'm checking if my emotional instinct is real. Now, in this case, it's me saying, "I honestly feel that over the last three years, I haven't been able to understand, I haven't really been able to gain context of why you've made the choices you've made. And I really wanna understand and deeply- I'm there for you to understand if these choices align with your values. If they are, those are not the values that attract me, those are not the values that make me feel good about being in a relationship." Because what I'm saying is, if you've found someone physically attractive and now you find them physically unattractive, I promise you, it's also based on their values and choices. It's not simply based on how they look.

Steven Bartlett 59:09 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 59:09 That's too simplistic for a modern-day-

Steven Bartlett 59:12 It's true.

Jay Shetty 59:13 ... p- powerful relationship. So to me, I'm communicating my disconnect with that person's choices and values. I'm not simplifying it to just how they look in the mirror.

Steven Bartlett 59:23 Why?

Jay Shetty 59:23 That, because, because that to me-

Steven Bartlett 59:25 But in terms of attraction.

Jay Shetty 59:25 ... isn't the truth. Because the truth is that, because they can change how they look in the mirror. But they don't want to, is my issue with it. They don't want to, they don't want to b- they don't want to be better in all the ways I think they can be better, right? That they don't s- I don't feel like they want to improve. I was, I was coaching someone whose, uh, partner was addicted to porn, right? And they were addicted to porn. Their partner found pictures and videos and all that kind of stuff on their laptop and phone and all the rest of it, and we were working with them, and it was, if that person didn't see a problem with their addiction, that's where you were at. But the p- the person's problem wasn't that they were just addicted to porn. It was the lack of transparency, it was the lack of honesty, it was the lack of emotional connection. Their issue wasn't that they were watching porn. Their issue was, "Don't you trust me enough to tell me that there's a disconnect here, that we don't have enough of a relationship where you can share this with me?" That was the issue that they were having. So to me, I'm always trying to communicate. Empathy is communicating at the root of the issue, not with the symptom of what you're experiencing. And if someone empathetically said to you, "Steven, I, I feel, and this is my projection on you, and you're allowed to edit this..."... I just feel that you're worth so much more, and I feel like you can make so many better choices for yourself. And I think you have the ability to get there. But I don't know if you want that, and if you don't want that, that's totally fine. But that's the kind of partner I wanna be with.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:53 Would you never mention in that process that you're not, not attracted to them anymore?

Jay Shetty 1:00:56 (clicks tongue) I wouldn't never not mention the direct thing, I just think that I'm more interested in excavating-

Steven Bartlett 1:01:04 You're going around-

Jay Shetty 1:01:05 It's not going around.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:06 ... the issue.

Jay Shetty 1:01:06 It's going under. It's going deeper.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:08 It's going deeper, then.

Jay Shetty 1:01:09 It's going deeper. It's not going aro- Going around is saying like, "Oh, you know, I'm just, it's not working out anymore."

Steven Bartlett 1:01:14 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:01:14 Like, "Oh, you know, I'm just seeing other people now." Like, going around it is like, you know, going around it is just saying y- I mean, even one sense of going around it is just like, "Yeah, I've, finding other people attract-" Whatever, like-

Steven Bartlett 1:01:25 You're going to the roots as opposed to the leaves.

Jay Shetty 1:01:27 Correct. Because I think that not only helps the other person, but it helps me understand how to actually be there for the person I love. Because I think that if you go to the root, that person has the opportunity to say, "Thank you, that's how I feel, but I just didn't know how to say it." So I wanna give the person the opportunity to feel so heard-

Steven Bartlett 1:01:46 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:01:47 ... when they can't even th- hear their own voice, but they can hear it through my reflection on them where they can say, "You know what? You're right. That is exactly how I feel. I know I can be so much better." But I, and if I can't find that in them, then we're not meant to be.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:00 It's so-

Jay Shetty 1:02:01 But I wanna be that voice for someone because they can't find that voice within themselves.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:05 It's so interesting, 'cause I imagine almost everybody listening to this has those gripes with their partner.

Jay Shetty 1:02:10 100%

Steven Bartlett 1:02:10 Whether you've been together for five minutes or five years, where you, (clicks tongue) you go, "I just wish he would be more like me," or, "I just wish he would do it like me. I wish he would love what I love."

Jay Shetty 1:02:19 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:19 And I've been there with my partner as well, where, um, I, I suspect she wants me to be a bit more interested in the things she's interested in.

Jay Shetty 1:02:26 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:26 And maybe vice versa. Um, but then also we have a different style of communication, all, all of these things. And going back a couple of years, we had a problem with sex which we had to confront, where one day she turned around to me and, and said that she was, wasn't interested in sex. We've talked about this publicly before.

Jay Shetty 1:02:41 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:42 Um, and the journey I went on to understand all of that. The question I'm trying to ask is like, Dave or Rebecca-

Jay Shetty 1:02:49 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:49 ... who's listening to this right now, who wants to, wants to change something about fucking ... Rebecca wants to change something about Dave. He's all, he's alway- he, he doesn't care about me, he doesn't give me the quality time, all of those things. What's the r- the path that Rebecca should take to-

Jay Shetty 1:03:04 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:03:04 ... deliver that to Dave?

Jay Shetty 1:03:06 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:03:06 And at what point should she go, "Fuck Dave"? (laughs) You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 1:03:09 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:03:10 Because, because it's a ... success is a team sport in this regard, right?

Jay Shetty 1:03:12 Yeah. Yeah. First thing I'm gonna say is, stop trying to change anyone because people don't change for people, they change for themselves. Like, stop trying to change anyone. People do not change for you, they don't change for me, they change for themselves. And if they don't wanna change, they're not changing. And if you wanna change your partner, chances are they're not the right person for you. And by the way, anyone you date, you'll always wanna change, because somehow, deep inside of you, you believe that the values you were brought up with and what you think is right is what everyone in the world should do. And so the core issue, again going to the root, is us and our projection. Like, is my wife any less of an amazing human being because she lives differently to me? No. And I think that relationships are so much more about learning to respect other people's values than they are to make them value what we value. I think the biggest issue we're having in relationships right now is we're saying, "Well, I like this. Why don't you like it?" Relationships are saying, "I love that you love that, and I love this. You go do your thing, I'll go do mine." Why do I wanna force my partner to come watch a football game with me if they hate football? I'd rather go watch it with someone that loves football. And why I'm, why is she gonna force me to go do something that I don't wanna do? I don't think that that's compromise or connection. I think that's d- ruining relationships, quite frankly. So I think going to the core of the answer, and I, I'll, I'll coach through Dave and Rebecca, but I think going to the root of it, it's just the issue of stop trying to change people. If you're trying to change them, then you don't love them. You love their potential. You love a version of them that you think they can become. That's not them. And stop trying to make them that version, because if you're in love with who someone could be, then you're not in love with them, and accept that. And I don't think we wanna accept that. We wanna think that we're better, greater human beings because we see something better for someone.

Steven Bartlett 1:05:09 And they're a project.

Jay Shetty 1:05:09 And they're a project. And I talk about that in the book, the idea that, you know, the project or there are three roles we play in relationships. One is the fixer. We want to find someone to fix. And the other is we play the role of the project. So we wanna be fixed by someone else-

Steven Bartlett 1:05:28 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:05:28 ... so we're looking for that person. And really, the right thing we wanna be is the supporter, the partner, the true equal, the true person who adds value to the other person. Sometimes takes on the role of the fixer, sometimes is the project, but overall is coming at it from a point of, "We're working on this together," as you said, a team sport. And so when it comes to Rebecca and Dave, ultimately, the deepest, most beautiful question your partner can ask you is, "Where do you want to be? And do you want my help getting there?" And if the answer to that question is something you don't like, then it comes to the end of it, because you're not gonna change them by manipulating them, by controlling them, by forcing them, by coming up with a magic trick. It's just not gonna happen. Like, I think so many people say to me, "Jay, just, you know, my, my partner just won't read your book. I really want them to read your book." And I'm like, "Please don't do that to them. You're about to push that person over the edge. And guess what? Not only are they not gonna read my book, they're not gonna be interested in personal development or growth because now you've given it a bad taste." Half the atheists in the world exist because religion failed them. It wasn't that they became an atheist out of choice 'cause they were like, "Oh, I'm just gonna be an atheist." It's because they saw someone as part of a religion that failed them. And so when it, whether it's personal growth, whether it's health, whether it's mindfulness, whether it's yoga, whatever your latest trend is that you're into, forcing your partner to get into it-... is going to push them away far more than it's gonna excite them and entice them.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:54 And there's a message underlying there, which I, which I felt in my own life, where someone's pushing you to do something or to check something out, and they're doing it very aggressively-

Jay Shetty 1:07:02 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:03 ... I'm, I'm trying to read between the lines.

Jay Shetty 1:07:05 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:05 I'm saying, b- you know, "Uh, Steve, please read this book." I go-

Jay Shetty 1:07:08 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:08 ... "Oh, this is where..." I'll read that as, here is, she's presenting me with a flaw that I have.

Jay Shetty 1:07:13 Totally.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:14 Because the book is about, I don't know, how to be great in bed.

Jay Shetty 1:07:17 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:17 And she's like, "Babe, please read this book."

Jay Shetty 1:07:19 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:19 I'm thinking, "Well, what you're actually saying to me is I'm not good in bed." (laughs)

Jay Shetty 1:07:22 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:22 You know what I mean? (laughs)

Jay Shetty 1:07:22 Totally, totally.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:23 So there's always-

Jay Shetty 1:07:24 And-

Steven Bartlett 1:07:24 That, that's the problem when you're dealing with love, again, isn't it? You-

Jay Shetty 1:07:26 Totally, and you're not... Love means to understand why someone makes the choices they make, and most of us don't even know why they make those choices, and we want them to make our choices. That's as simple as it is.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:40 You said something so amazing, which I thought was, um, that question that Rebecca should be asking Dave, which I've never really thought about before, which is, the first question you should ask them is, like, where do they want their life to go, and where do they see this relationship going? And then, instead of trying to interfere with that and design it yourself and muddle with it, just see if it matches up to your vision of the relationship.

Jay Shetty 1:07:59 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:59 I, I imagine most people listening to this now haven't done that exercise with their partner, where they, uh, they haven't asked their partner, "By the way, like, what is your vision for this relationship and us?"

Jay Shetty 1:08:07 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:08:07 And even your own life.

Jay Shetty 1:08:08 Yep.

Steven Bartlett 1:08:09 It'd be interesting, you know?

Jay Shetty 1:08:11 Yeah, I think also just trying to l- I, I think the reason why we haven't had that conversation is most of us don't even know our vision. So-

Steven Bartlett 1:08:18 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:08:18 ... the reason why we haven't done that with a partner is because we don't know the answer to our own question. And so, before you ask that question, you should have your own idea. I know what I want. My vision of a relationship is, we wake up excited to see each other every day. We go to bed, uh, feeling accomplished and fulfilled throughout the day. We make time to connect on understanding where each other's lives are going, where they intertwine, and where they separate, and we support each other in the goals. I break it down into three things in the book. I talk about, uh, liking each other's personality, and the way I define... That's the first one of the three. What I mean by that is, there was an amazing study that was done that said that in order for someone to be considered a casual friend, you have to spend 40 hours with them. In order for someone to be considered a friend, you have to spend 100 hours with them. And for someone to be considered a good friend, a great friend, you have to spend 200 hours with them.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:14 What are we? (laughs)

Jay Shetty 1:09:15 So we're, we're nothing right now, Stephen. We, we are, we are not doing very well on that list.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:20 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 1:09:20 Now, having said that, we've also had very deep time to... Like, we're always opening our entire souls and hearts to each other, so it's, it's a different type of relationship. But the point is, liking someone's personality is, do I wanna spend 200 hours with them? That's how I like to break it down, is, do I see myself spending 200 hours with this person, trying to understand them? The second is, do I respect their values? You will only know their values if you ask them, if you're aware of, you can see how they spend their time and money. Most people don't like the way their partner spends their time and money, which means you don't like their values. But you're still with them because you like something else about them. But the values are the core of who that person is as a human being. And then the third is, do you want to help them achieve their goals? That's love. Love means that you wanna help them get to where they wanna get to. But most of us don't even know where our partners want to go, or where we want to go. So we're struggling with, like, three fundamental things that define love, and we'll never know, because we're trying to patch it up with all the other stickers that come up, uh, in making us feel good, you know?

Steven Bartlett 1:10:26 You, you said point number one there, which was waking up to them every day. Now, when you, when you said that, I thought, "Fuck, every day?" Like-

Jay Shetty 1:10:32 Well, not every day, but I'm saying whenever you're in the same city.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:34 Yeah, I mean, it was just a, a f-

Jay Shetty 1:10:34 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:10:35 But my, my, that's what my brain did, "What, every day?" Like, um-

Jay Shetty 1:10:37 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:37 And then that brought my mind to this

Steven Bartlett 1:10:39 point about the role of distance-

Jay Shetty 1:10:40 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:41 ... in your relationship.

Jay Shetty 1:10:41 Yes. (laughs) I've tested this law big time both ways. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:10:46 Okay, tell me what you've learned.

Jay Shetty 1:10:46 So, my wife and I have been together for 10 years, so it's not long, and it's not short. It's, like, you know, it's a-

Steven Bartlett 1:10:51 Hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:10:51 ... it's a good amount of time. Uh, and we've spent up to six months apart a year sometimes, and we've spent as little as two months apart a year. So, we've varied, in those 10 years, anywhere from two months to six months a year of not seeing each other, based on work schedules, priorities, et cetera. And I was always someone who believed that distance was really good for relationships. I think it's healthy to miss each other. I think it's healthier if you have a plan of how you're going to be apart, and I think it's even healthier if you have a plan of how to reconnect after the time apart. And I think that's where relationships and distance go wrong. Most relationships and distance are either by default or with no consciousness, so we just ended up not seeing each other for X amount of time, whether that's one week, one month, or whatever it may be. That unconscious time of not being with each other is not healthy for a relationship. You don't know why you're disconnected. You don't know for how long. You don't know how you're reconnecting, and you don't know how you're staying in touch. That's not good-quality time away. So, that's how to make time work for you. Six months is too long. Six months doesn't work. I've tried and tested it. It's really bad.

Steven Bartlett 1:12:11 Same.

Jay Shetty 1:12:12 Uh, it took six months after six months to reconnect, and I'm not... I literally felt like it was, like, a rule, that for every day I was apart, I had to spend a day of quality time with that person to refind and rediscover and to sustain and to evolve and grow a relationship. And I literally felt that six months apart