Jay Shetty: The 3 Simple Things A Happy Life Needs | E119

Jay Shetty 0:00 This is a really difficult question to ask, but it is the best question you can ask yourself.

Steven Bartlett 0:06 I don't need to tell you who he is, because his reputation precedes himself.

Jay Shetty 0:10 I enjoy being a monk as much as I enjoy understanding media, and that's really paradoxical for a lot of people, but that's just my truth. I've always wanted to share meditation at scale with the world. If you just keep trying to change your environment, hoping that your life's going to improve, you're gonna feel dissatisfied at the next place. And I feel we're just conditioned to say, "Okay, you don't like your job, quit your job. You don't like your relationship, quit your relationship." And I think we just keep saying that it's this external shell that we're in, when it's actually this shell and what's happening inside of it that's defining all of these perspectives. I believe that to create happiness day-to-day, in one year, in one month, in a week, you have to have ... (music)

Steven Bartlett 0:53 Quick one. Can you do me a favor if you're listening to this and hit the subscribe button, the follow button, wherever you're listening to this podcast? Thank you so much. Jay Shetty is a household name all around the world. He is someone that's provided inspiration, wisdom and insight to billions of people using social media. I don't need to tell you who he is, because his reputation precedes himself. In his early years, he was lost. Becoming a monk helped him to find himself, and through service, he's gone on to touch the lives of billions of people through social media. But who is he really? Who's the guy behind the following? Me and Jay have a connection that I'm yet to experience with pretty much any guest that's sat here with me, and I know you're gonna feel that today. This is a truly special, honest, open conversation between two men about so many things that I genuinely think the world needs to hear. Thank you, Jay. And when I say thank you to Jay, you're gonna understand why shortly. So without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is the Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. (music) Jay, first of all, you know, I usually start these podcasts in a much more serious way-

Jay Shetty 2:17 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 2:17 ... but it's good to see you back in the UK.

Jay Shetty 2:19 (laughs) It's ... Mate, it's good to see you, and I was just saying this to you offline, that I think the first time we met was around three years ago-

Steven Bartlett 2:26 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 2:26 ... three or four years ago in New York.

Steven Bartlett 2:27 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 2:28 And I think we had this plan to become best friends. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 2:31 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 2:31 And s- so we were like, we were like, "We're gonna see each other. This, this, this, this, this."

Steven Bartlett 2:34 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 2:34 And then all of a sudden, I moved to LA-

Steven Bartlett 2:37 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 2:37 ... and then you moved back to London too.

Steven Bartlett 2:38 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 2:38 But it's so good to see you, man, and-

Steven Bartlett 2:40 No, it's great to be reunited.

Jay Shetty 2:41 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 2:41 I do feel like we've got so much in common in so many unbelievable ways, but the reason why I was so excited about this conversation is be- because we've also got so many ... We've walked a, a different path in our lives, um, and you're such an, uh, a self-aware, sort of self-analytical human being, so the wisdom that I've gained from watching you online over the years as someone that comes from London, is from the UK as well and is speaking to the world through their content and channels, I find, I found truly inspirational. So let's get into it.

Steven Bartlett 3:08 So one of the things I always start with with people, and I think this comes from my experience with, like, ch- studying childhood psychology is trying to understand what it was in their early years that, that has led them t- to go on the path they went on and ultimately to be sat here. When you look back at those early years in your life, in, growing up in London, um, what were the formative things that you point at in hindsight and go, "Do you know what? I wouldn't be who I am now, a bit of an anomaly, if that hadn't happened"?

Jay Shetty 3:36 I think one of the biggest things would be that I felt I mediated my parents' marriage when I was younger, and so I was their go-to person for my mum and my dad.

Steven Bartlett 3:47 Really?

Jay Shetty 3:48 And I have a really good relationship with both of them, and love them both, and they would come to me with their challenges and their issues and their pain points, and as I was growing up, I felt that I was always trying to reconcile, discuss, converse, negotiate for both of them on either side, and one thing I realized very early on as a young child was I never wanted to take a side. I never wanted to make one of them win and one of them lose. I never saw one of them right and one of them wrong. I really saw them both as two humans who were trying their best, but just like me, were naturally flawed and fallible and made mistakes. And I think that gave me a sense of compassion that runs through to today for myself and for others and for people that I work with and the people that we communicate through the podcast and videos, because I just saw very early on in my life that people could mean well, people could try their best, people could try to be loving and share kindness-

Steven Bartlett 4:58 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 4:59 ... but they could still feel that things weren't working out for them. So I look at that as a massive moment in my past, because now when I look back at it, I think, "I've be- I've just been doing this for so long." Like, I feel like I started doing this when I was probably 6, 7, maybe 10 years old, and so now to be still doing it today, it feels like something that was a natural role that I embodied at that time, and it's now a role that has evolved into looking internally for myself, also looking at the things that I adopted from that time that were uncomfortable and things that made me question my own self-worth and my own meaning of life.

Steven Bartlett 5:42 What were those things?

Jay Shetty 5:43 I would say that, for me, I realized that we either try to repeat or avoid what we saw in our childhood, and that happens either unconsciously or consciously. So you could be unconsciously repeating what you saw in your childhood-... or you could be consciously avoiding it. And I found that there were parts of me that were really great at avoiding some of the negative things, but there were also subconscious parts of me that adopted some of those behavior traits that I only discovered in the last two years. And so, I'll give you an example. With my wife, I sometimes played the role of sacrificing and over-giving, but then expecting her to give the same amount back. Now, the way I see sacrifice now is that if you sacrifice something for someone and then you want it back, it's not a sacrifice, it's a transaction. You can't give someone a discount and then ask them to pay full price-

Steven Bartlett 6:48 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 6:49 ... and then say it was a sacrifice, because it wasn't. It was a transaction. And I saw that in my life, because of the way I'd received love from extended families or love from school or teachers or whatever it may have been, I was loved in that way, where I was loved, but then made to feel guilty if I didn't repay it in full. And I saw myself adopting that in my own loving relationships with my wife, with my family, with my sister. And I literally only spotted that two years ago.

Steven Bartlett 7:17 Wow.

Jay Shetty 7:18 And I thought to myself, "This has to stop. I can't repeat this cycle."

Steven Bartlett 7:23 What is the work you do to spot those, to illuminate some of those kind of subconscious behavior patterns that... 'Cause we all have them going on in the back room of our lives

Steven Bartlett 7:32 in our minds. We have th- our childhood, the lessons we learn, and the limiting beliefs we learn, almost acting as the puppet master of our adult lives. And so how does one become, get to a point where they can spot that and go, "Do you know what? That comes from that." What, is there an exercise you've done? Is there... You know, tell me.

Jay Shetty 7:50 I think the first thing is that when you experience conflict with someone or you experience a disagreement or a disconnect with someone, our society version is blame them, it's their fault, they upset you, they're wrong. And our friends will agree with that. When you go and tell your friend that so-and-so did something, they'll say, "Oh, yeah, well, you know, he or she's a XYZ..." XYZ, sorry. Uh, XYZ.

Steven Bartlett 8:14 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 8:15 The, the, the Ame- spending too much time in America. Uh, the, the XYZ of they're so-and-so, they're like this, they're like that. And actually, in that moment, I think the best thing we can do is, "What's my accountability in this? What part of this have I created for myself?" This is a really uncomfortable, difficult question to ask, but it is the best question you can ask yourself. If every time something goes wrong or something doesn't work out, instead of blaming someone else or blaming yourself, if you can pause and say, "What part of this am I responsible for?" And I think the reason why that's difficult is because we see everything as binary. We see it as it's either their fault or it's all my fault. It's all your fault or it's all my fault. And the truth is, there is no all. It's all parts. It's partly your fault and it's partly my fault. But if I don't understand what my part to play is, then I can't actually understand it. So the first step is, what's my part? That's the s- first part of the exercise. The second part of the exercise is now that I know what my part is, let me focus on what skill I'm missing, let me focus on what growth I haven't had, let me focus on what part of my life feels incomplete that makes me act in my incomplete way with others. So, what part of me is missing? And I found that when I was over-sacrificing or over-giving, that's because I was trying to demand love from someone else and demand validation from someone else. So I was almost trying to achieve or earn that love and validation.

Steven Bartlett 9:57 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 9:57 And so I realized I wasn't giving it to myself. And so now I've realized that whatever you want from someone else, give it to yourself first. If you want compliments from someone else, give them to yourself first. If you want validation from someone else, give it to yourself first. Because no matter how many of them they give you-

Steven Bartlett 10:17 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 10:17 ... if you never gave it to yourself in the first place, it will never be enough. So, that's the second step. Whatever you want from someone else, give it to yourself first. And the third step, I'd say, to get to that self-awareness is simply sitting down and plotting the three most difficult times in your life. So, sit down and write down, "What have been the three most difficult times in my life, or the most painful decision-making points of transition in my life?" And then ask yourself, "When you made good decisions, what was the environment like? Who were you listening to? What were people saying around you? And when you made poor decisions, what was the environment like? What were people saying? Who were you listening to?" And you'll start to spot a pattern. And I've found that in my life, any time I make a good decision, most people disagree with me, I have to listen to my inner voice, and I'm usually doing something against the grain. Now, that's my pattern, but everyone has to find their own.

Steven Bartlett 11:20 You've reached a point of self-awareness where you can literally pinpoint the steps of doing that. And obviously your coaching and all the work you do has, um, has exacerbated that extremely. Is there, like, a practical day-to-day habit you've installed in your life to be able to look back at how Jay's behaving on, like a... Is it a notepad? Is it voice notes in your phone? Is it meditation? What is the, the day-to-day practice that's got you to this point?

Jay Shetty 11:45 So I would say that over time, I've done journaling. I love voice notes because I like speaking sometimes more than writing. But I'd say the biggest one, if I'm completely honest with you, Steven (laughs) , like sitting here with you and you're looking in my eyes asking me that question, I'm like, the honest answer is I talk to myself a lot while driving-I talk out loud to myself a lot. And I will sit there while I'm driving and I will talk through that day, about a situation where I didn't like how I behaved, or a situation where I was really happy about how I behaved, and so I'll pinpoint. And I always think it's really powerful to pinpoint a point where you were below your expectation, and a point where you were above your expectation. And I'll sit there and I'll ask myself, "Why was it that I was above my expectation? Why did I have the ability in that moment to act in that way?" I'll give you an example of where I was below my expectation the other day. I was going to play tennis with a friend in the morning, and I was running late because I woke up, I was figuring things out that morning, I had a few work emails from the night before, I'm eight hours ahead of LA right now so I had things to catch up on, I'm running late to play tennis. We've got the court booked and it's only booked for an hour, so we might be late. Something really insignificant, by the way. I turn up and I meet the lady at the front, and they haven't been able to give me a membership card because I'm only here for 10 days, and then I'm like, "Here's my membership number." And, and they can't figure it out and they don't know if I'm in the system, and now we're getting later for the court. And I'm holding my own, and I'm on the verge of just being like, "Get on with it." Like, can't we ... like, ah, this is not that complicated. And I resist from that, but in my head I'm thinking, "Why did that even happen? Like, why am I even feeling the urge to put a simple person trying to do their job, why am I thinking to release my anger and anguish onto them?" And when I thought about that later that day, it was all because I was late. I was frustrated that my friend's gonna be upset that we're 30 minutes late for the court. I was upset that we're gonna get even less time, and I was about to take it out on an innocent person who actually has nothing to do with any of it-

Steven Bartlett 13:56 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 13:56 ... who's trying to do their job. And so for me, talking out loud when I'm on my own, spending time... Actually, now when I'm, uh, answering your question, spending time alone is the only place where you get to have these conversations, and most of us are spending time away from being alone because we're scared of having these conversations. I'm sure you've seen, they did that study where they asked men and women whether they either wanted to be alone with their thoughts for 15 minutes or give themselves an electric shock. Now, the results will surprise you. 30% of women gave themselves an electric shock, and 60% of men gave themselves an electric shock. And the reason was because they didn't want to be alone with their thoughts for 15 minutes. We struggle so much with the idea of being present in our own minds and bodies and hearts that we distract ourselves. So really, the habit is being present with myself, with my thoughts, and working through when I'm happy with myself and when I think I coulda done better.

Steven Bartlett 15:10 You know, I really, really can relate to that point about, um, not wanting to be alone with, with your thoughts. Not from my own experiences, but because I've got friends around me, specifically over the last year when we've been in this lockdown, who have really struggled. And even over the Christmas period, I've got a couple of friends who really, really struggled because they are alone with their thoughts. And you've spoken there to the value of sitting alone with your thoughts, in silence, in self-contemplation, but what is it in the human, in a human that makes them not want to be alone with their thoughts? Why, for some, are their thoughts so, such a unpleasant place to be?

Jay Shetty 15:46 I think it's because we've equated loneliness and being alone with abandonment.

Steven Bartlett 15:55 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 15:57 And those are two completely different ideas. You can be lonely, but that doesn't mean you've been abandoned. And we confuse this so much. Paul Tillich writes about this, and he says that the challenge today is that we think that there's only one word for being alone, and we call it loneliness. And he says we've forgotten about a second word. It's called solitude.

Steven Bartlett 16:24 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 16:25 Solitude and loneliness externally look the same, but they're completely different things. And he says that solitude is the strength of being alone, and loneliness is the weakness. And to me, it's because being alone feels like abandonment. It feels like everyone has left us. It feels like we're alone at the end of the party and no one's gonna stay. We've created a feeling of being enamored and being forced to admire being together. My other half, my better half, the person who completes me. It's like all of this language is phrased in a way to make you feel half and incomplete.

Steven Bartlett 17:10 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 17:11 When someone came to school and they didn't have someone to sit next to them, that person was considered the loner. If you had a birthday party and no one showed up, you were considered unpopular. All of our self-worth, since we were young, has been defined by, do you have people around you? Not the quality of those people, not the depth of those people, not how much those people actually love you. Just did you have people around you?

Steven Bartlett 17:37 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 17:38 And so we've just been conditioned to believe that being alone means being lonely means being abandoned-

Steven Bartlett 17:45 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 17:45 ... when actually, being in solitude could be the most beautiful thing we could do. So it's just as a society, we've gotta unlearn that conditioning-

Steven Bartlett 17:54 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 17:54 ... that's made us forcefully believe that if you don't have someone else, if you turn up to a wedding and you don't have a plus one-

Steven Bartlett 18:02 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 18:03 That's like one of the most stressful things for people. I don't know who I'm gonna take. Why is it that prom, if you don't have a date, every single major life event, graduating, weddings, they're all based around having someone else there to celebrate you.

Steven Bartlett 18:20 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 18:21 Why? Like why, why, why can't we just celebrate ourselves? And I think that's where we've lost it. We've lost the idea of celebrating ourselves.

Steven Bartlett 18:29 Do you think that... I was just thinking that, thinking that through, and I was thinking, you know, if 10,000 years ago on the, in the tribes of Africa, if I was without, if I was without a tribe, I would have been, um, from a reproductive standpoint, less attractive. No woman would want to have been with me because a tribe speaks to the resources I can provide in bringing up a, a, you know, a baby for our family, but also, you know, I would have been in, uh, great danger, my social status would have decayed, and typically, they see this in tribes, I think in monkeys, where if you, if you fall out of the tribe, eventually you get sick or die. Um, so do you think that's a prehistoric, uh, part of our conditioning or is it like a social, new age social, um, construct?

Jay Shetty 19:08 I think prehistorically, it makes sense, but I think the social construct has been that equating solitude or loneliness with isolation, seclusion, and separation.

Steven Bartlett 19:21 Yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 19:21 And I think we confuse the two ideas. Spending time every day in solitude is not me saying to you, "Don't talk to anyone all year."

Steven Bartlett 19:30 You're not good enough is what you're meaning.

Jay Shetty 19:30 Right, yeah. And it's not like me saying spending some time talking to yourself and being alone with your thoughts means never go to a party or an event. Like I think, I just think we've got really poor as humans, as entertaining two ideas that are supposedly conflicting, but recognizing that there's a middle ground. Like we're, we're poor at saying, okay, well, Jay and Steven aren't saying be alone or be surrounded by people. We're saying spend some time alone-

Steven Bartlett 19:57 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 19:57 ... and be intentional about who you spend your time with.

Steven Bartlett 19:59 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 19:59 And for some reason, the human mind goes, no, no, no, I think you're telling me that I have to go live in a forest and be away from everyone.

Steven Bartlett 20:05 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 20:05 But that's not really what solitude is. Solitude is I am comfortable spending time with myself for a few moments a day-

Steven Bartlett 20:13 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 20:13 ... enjoying my own company.

Steven Bartlett 20:15 And speaking of spending time with people then, so one of the concepts you write a lot about is this kind of 75% rule. Um, people often discuss the importance of the company you keep, whether it's their wisdom, their attitude, their positivity, their optimism, whatever, and the effect that can have on you as a human being. What have you done in your life, and also what is the importance, from what you've experienced, of surrounding yourself with people that have good values, that are equally ambitious, that share a sort of similarities, um, as it relates to who you want to become? Is it important? Does it matter?

Jay Shetty 20:47 (sighs) I, I think one of the biggest mistakes I've made, and I think we make as humans, is we often look for divinity in humanity.

Steven Bartlett 20:58 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 20:59 You're looking for that divine person that has all the answers and that is infallible and perfect. And when you seek divinity in humanity, you're left with insecurity and anxiety because no one fulfills that divine search. And so for me, what I really had to understand as I went down that road and felt like I was let down and felt like people made me feel unworthy or unequipped, was I recognized that there were four pillars of relationships, and they are care, competence, consistency, and character. Every single person in your life is going to be able to give you or should be able to give you at least one of these four characteristics. Very rarely, if ever, will one person give you all four. And if you're lucky, you might have a few people in your life that give you two or three. So let's talk about each of them. Care. My mom, there is no one in the world who cares for me more than my mom. She would do anything for me. She'd be there for me. All she wants to make sure, doesn't matter what I've achieved or what I've done, if she picks up the phone to me, her first question is, "Have you eaten?"

Steven Bartlett 22:16 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 22:16 "What did you eat? Uh, are you safe? Are you healthy?" Right? Like that's all she cares about. Now, my mom isn't the person that I go to for business advice, or she's not the person, I'm saying hypothetically, that I go to for social media advice.

Steven Bartlett 22:32 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 22:33 That's not her competence, but she doesn't need to be. She cares for me and that's what I get from her. Now, let's go to competence. If I'm thinking about starting a business, new dragon over here.

Steven Bartlett 22:45 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 22:45 Right? Like y- you'd be a great friend to call up. You're someone who understands what it takes to get investors, scale a business, build teams, manage internationally, grow, scale, sell. Like you have that journey and you have that network, you have that career.

Steven Bartlett 23:00 I also care about you. (laughs)

Jay Shetty 23:01 I know you also care about me. So I've got two out of four in you.

Steven Bartlett 23:04 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 23:04 And you got good character.

Steven Bartlett 23:05 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 23:05 You don't have the consistency though-

Steven Bartlett 23:07 No.

Jay Shetty 23:07 ... 'cause we don't see each other enough. So, so three out of four.

Steven Bartlett 23:10 Se- seven- 75%.

Jay Shetty 23:11 Yeah, 75%.

Steven Bartlett 23:12 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 23:12 And so for that, for me, is that perfect example of there's competence there and there is care there, which is wonderful, and there's character there. I believe you're someone of good character. And that's the next one, character. There are some people in our life that hold us to higher values, they help us grow with greater integrity, they help us see things beyond what we're chasing, they make us look beyond our desires and make us recognize that there's so much more to life, and those people are massively important. And those people may not be the people we see every week, they may not be the people we see every day, they may not be the people that we call up, but you need them as your compass. The people with character are your compass. And then finally, you have the people that are consistent. You have some mates that you just know are always gonna pick up the phone.

Steven Bartlett 23:57 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 23:58 You know that if you need to move house, you've got a family emergency, you know which friend you call. They may not be the competent business advisor...They may care about you, but they don't care about you as deeply as your mum does. But they are consistently always there for you.

Steven Bartlett 24:13 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 24:13 And that's beautiful, but the problem is, when we look at our consistent friend, we think, "Well, why are you not competent?"

Steven Bartlett 24:19 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 24:19 We look at our competent friend, we think, "Why don't you have good character?" We look at our character friend and say, "Well, why aren't you always there?" And so we're always looking for which C they don't have-

Steven Bartlett 24:29 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 24:29 ... rather than appreciating for them for exactly what they bring to our life.

Steven Bartlett 24:33 You know, I met your wonderful wife.

Jay Shetty 24:35 Yeah, you did. Yeah, in New York, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 24:37 Yeah. Honestly, in a room full of hundreds and hundreds of people, if there was a light-

Jay Shetty 24:42 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 24:42 ... like a, if, she felt like a physical l- like a light in the room, just her energy-

Jay Shetty 24:46 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 24:46 ... was just unbelievable. And it's, it's remarkable because she, she felt so much like you in so many ways. I'm guessing wh- when you were talking about that third point, about character and values and showing you things in life that are beyond what you might have thought and the meaning of life, um, um, you know, f- from my own ten-minute, you know, conversation with her, I feel like she must be in that category, right?

Jay Shetty 25:08 Yeah, r- I always used to say to people, like, so people become friends with me, and I hope they like me, and then I introduce them to my wife-

Steven Bartlett 25:16 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 25:16 ... and then I never hear from them again. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 25:18 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 25:18 So she steals all my friends, and I'm not, I'm not even just saying that. Like, that's genuinely true. She has stolen every single one of my friends as soon as they meet her-

Steven Bartlett 25:26 I'm not surprised.

Jay Shetty 25:26 ... so I can't introduce anyone to her anymore.

Steven Bartlett 25:28 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 25:29 But yeah, she's just... I don't know how... And it's, it's been interesting, because my wife has taught me so much more about me and life than I ever thought a partner could, and it's because as my... So my wife and I have been together since before my external career took off, and so she was with me when I had no money, no job. She introduced me to her family when I had no money, no job. I met her parents. I met her extended family. I had no career plan. So I've been with her for around eight years now, and far, far before everything kinda took off externally. And what was really, really phenomenal was, as my life took off externally, I started to develop this need for validation from her for what I was achieving. So if I'd get a big deal, I'd be like, "Look, look, look. Look what I did. Like, look what I did. Like, isn't this amazing?" And she wouldn't be impressed by it. And then if I did something and it, it went viral, I'd be, "Oh, look at this. Look at this. Li- look how cool this is. Li- isn't this amazing?" And she wasn't impressed by it. And then if I was on the front cover of a magazine or something, I'd be, "Oh, look how cool this is. Like, look at, look at this." And she wouldn't admire it. And for a long time, I started to think, "Did I marry the wrong person?"

Steven Bartlett 26:53 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 26:53 And I was thinking to myself, "Did I, am I with the wrong person?" Because I know plenty of people who are telling me that that cover's amazing and that video's amazing and that podcast is amazing and that person's amazing. Like, am I, like, am I not worthy of respect? And I realized as I, and I reflected on that, as I said earlier. I was like, "What part of this am I accountable for?" And the answer was really simple. My life, my wife loved me for everything that came before that. She loves me despite (laughs) all of that. If all of that was to go away tomorrow, she'd still love me. And I was like, "Isn't that the most beautiful thing?" Like, isn't that what we all want? Isn't that what we're truly craving, is that we are loved beyond our appearance, our achievements, our ambitions, and our goals? And I had that, but I wasn't seeing that because I wanted to be loved for my ambitions, my achievements, and my goals. And so yes, when you talk about my wife being a light, she's one of those people for sure, because she's been my guide, and my coach, my teacher, without even knowing. If you asked her this question, she, she wouldn't say that she was doing it intentionally. But she's been such a great teacher and light in my life in so many ways, and so I'm always just trying to... Anytime she annoys me, I'm like, "There's a lesson in this for me."

Steven Bartlett 28:16 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 28:16 And, and there's gonna be something really profound in this for me, because she's, she's, she's cut from a different cloth. She's, she's remarkable. I don't even know how she's like... Her parents, her parents are incredible, and you know, they've, they've given her a lot of love. And so I see that kind of flow through her.

Steven Bartlett 28:32 It's so funny, I burst out laughing then because it reminds-

Jay Shetty 28:34 (coughs)

Steven Bartlett 28:34 ... me a lot of my girlfriend.

Jay Shetty 28:35 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 28:35 And I s- I've said this on this podcast a lot, and it's f- I've never actually realized, uh, th- the, the kind of fundamental truth in, um, what you said there, but whenever I talk about my girlfriend, I say she doesn't really care when I, if I'm number one in the charts or if I'm-

Jay Shetty 28:52 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 28:52 ... number one here or that. The reaction I get from her versus other people like my boys is kind of a bit more mute.

Jay Shetty 28:58 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 28:58 And I always thought, I was like, "Maybe she just doesn't care about my, you know, my, like, pref-" But you've, what you've highlighted there is, in fact, that is somebody that values s- something else-

Jay Shetty 29:08 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 29:09 ... in you.

Jay Shetty 29:09 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 29:09 So, but my girlfriend would be very, very happy and very, very impressed with me doing a bunch of other things that were maybe a bit more-

Jay Shetty 29:15 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 29:15 ... pure in their values.

Jay Shetty 29:16 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 29:16 She would celebrate those things. It's not like she's not celebrating me. It's just, I don't get the euphoria from the, like, number one in the podcast chart.

Jay Shetty 29:24 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 29:25 And it's a question of values. And in fact, as you say, that's what we should all be looking for.

Jay Shetty 29:29 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 29:29 But society has taught me that you clap-

Jay Shetty 29:32 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 29:32 ... when you get big numbers on stuff-

Jay Shetty 29:33 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 29:33 ... or you go number one or the bank balance is big.

Jay Shetty 29:36 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 29:36 So, uh, that's so interesting. It's probably-

Jay Shetty 29:39 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 29:39 ... (laughs) I guess someone's gonna draw the conclusion from that, they're gonna look at their partner who's been clapping because they've got lo- like a promotion at work-

Jay Shetty 29:44 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 29:44 ... and they're gonna go, "You've got bad values, love." (laughs)

Jay Shetty 29:48 (laughs) Uh, not at all. We should-

Steven Bartlett 29:49 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 29:49 ... we should, we should be supportive partners about everything that our partners do, but it is beautiful that you get an opportunity to learn about your partner's values by what they value in your own success.

Steven Bartlett 30:00 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 30:01 And that doesn't mean that, like you just said, like, your girlfriend or my wife is not happy when something goes number one or does great.

Steven Bartlett 30:08 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 30:08 Of course they're happy. But there's something deeper than that that makes them happier.

Steven Bartlett 30:12 Yeah, exactly.

Jay Shetty 30:13 And, and I think that's really special, and that's that character and that light.

Steven Bartlett 30:16 Do you want a drink?

Jay Shetty 30:17 Yes, please. Yeah. Th- what- what is this, though? This is cool.

Steven Bartlett 30:20 Would you- would you- would you like water or- so this is-

Jay Shetty 30:20 I know what Huel is, but I didn't, I've never had this before. Is this vegan?

Steven Bartlett 30:23 Yes.

Jay Shetty 30:23 Oh, amazing. All right.

Steven Bartlett 30:24 How was that? (laughs)

Jay Shetty 30:25 Yeah. I'll try this.

Steven Bartlett 30:26 Vegan, gluten-free. It's like a ... yeah. All your nutrition leek complete-ness. Get another glass.

Jay Shetty 30:31 Yeah. This, this tastes so good.

Steven Bartlett 30:33 You like it? Yeah. It's re- do you know, it's really good for you. It really is good for you. And when I say, when I say that-

Jay Shetty 30:37 How much sugar does it have in it?

Steven Bartlett 30:38 I don't believe it has sugar.

Jay Shetty 30:40 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 30:40 I think it has sucrose or whatever the replacement is.

Jay Shetty 30:42 Tastes too good to feel healthy for you. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 30:44 Well, you know, they could've made it taste like Nesquik, and they- I've been in the boardroom with them, and they just refuse-

Jay Shetty 30:49 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 30:49 ... they refuse to compromise on the, the goodness.

Jay Shetty 30:51 Hm.

Steven Bartlett 30:53 Cool.

Jay Shetty 30:53 Cool. All right.

Steven Bartlett 30:53 Fab. Whenever you're ready. (paper rustling)

Steven Bartlett 30:56 When I was reading through your story, and from what I've observed with your story, there was, um, some really interesting similarities that really reminded me of mine, but, um, I feel like are an exception. And, and it's, it's you... And you know what? You said it before we started talking. You said, um ... We were talking about various business things and business d- decisions you've made, and also you were t- we were talking about you moving to LA after just going there with your wife for a week, and you said, "Well, it just felt like the right thing to do. We were there for one week and it felt like the right thing to do." So although you were leaving New York where you had all of this stuff and you, you were starting to build, um, your presence there, you used your ... Your compass became how you felt. And when I looked through your, your history, from your very, very early days, from a teenager, to school, to university, to going off and becoming a monk, to getting a job at Accentra, then pick, getting picked up by Arianna Huffington at Huffington Post and quitting after six months because you were doing this other thing, you are a remarkable quitter. And you seem to be one that's guided by this compass of, "How does this feel?" not, "What will people think?" Talk to me about that. And (laughs) is that observation accurate?

Jay Shetty 32:09 It's such a hard way to live, in one sense, and such an easy way to live, in one sense. Uh-

Steven Bartlett 32:13 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 32:14 That observation, I, I never put it in those words, but I love those words. And I've heard you talk about that before-

Steven Bartlett 32:19 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 32:19 ... about being a good quitter, and I love that.

Steven Bartlett 32:22 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 32:23 I, I, I think what you're saying is true. I, I agree with you. I've, I've never articulated in the way you just did, but it feels so true. I, from a very young age, just felt there was this strong inner voice, and I believe everyone has it. This isn't me being religious or spiritual or woo-woo. This is me saying that there is a voice that we all hear in our minds, in our hearts, in our heads, wherever you want to say it is. It's there. And the challenge that happens is, in our early years, you're told to tell it to be quiet. So, every time that voice says, "Well, maybe you..." "No, no, no, no, no. Just, just do what they're saying. Do what they're told. Get on that conveyor belt. Get on that assembly line. Stick that barcode on your back. Become a machine. Go be a robot." And, and it's almost programmed. And so that voice that is not machine-like, that voice is the human inside of us, is being trained to be a machine. And so we start treating ourselves like machines. And machines, you just program them, and then press Enter, and then it gives you what it wants. But we don't function that way. We're a conversation in the universe. We're not a program.

Steven Bartlett 33:37 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 33:38 And so, if you're a conversation and you're an interaction, you're dynamic, that inner voice becomes so squashed that now by the time we're 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, whatever age you are, you can't hear it anymore, so you say, "Oh, that's some spiritual mumbo jumbo stuff, because I don't hear that voice." But that's just because we quietened it. So for me, even till this day ... And by the way, I have more things trying to quiet that voice today. I had a conversation with my team recently. I was talking about a few new things I wanted to try out this year, and a lot of people said to me, they said, "Jay, don't you think that's a risk to the brand you've created? Don't you think that's a risk to who you are?" And I said, "Well, I haven't worked this hard to not do what I truly want." Like, I haven't got this far by being someone else. I've got this far by being true to myself. So, I can only continue to do that. And so yes, there are things that I do that are slightly unconventional for people who've been monks in the past. There are certain ways that I live my life, and there are certain things that I enjoy. And I always say this, I enjoyed being a monk as much as I enjoy understanding media. And that's really paradoxical for a lot of people, but that's just my truth. I enjoy building a business and learning about what it takes as much as I learn trying to understand how to meditate deeper and go internal. I under- I enjoy and appreciate what I gain from all these pursuits, and I see them as being this beautiful, you know, beautiful symbiotic, synergetic combination of learning and life and experience. But the problem is our mind has said, "No, those things are paradoxical. That's an oxymoron. You can't connect those two things. Those two things are unconnectable." And I'm like, "Well, Steve Jobs said that creativity's connecting things, and connected thinkers will rule the future." So, if we can't spot connections in anomalies, then I think we actually sell ourselves short. And so when you say being a remarkable quitter, I see that as me saying I only have trained myself to know that I can only do what I really feel like doing, with the awareness that this could be a risk, but I'm okay with that. Does that answer your question?

Steven Bartlett 35:56 Oh, 100%.

Jay Shetty 35:56 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 35:57 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 35:57 And you know, you, you bit- brought up another point there which I think is, is equally ... and this sounds a bit like a pun, but equally connected, which is, you know, society will give you a label. They'll say, "Okay, you're a monk, so act like and behave like a monk. We know what monks are."

Jay Shetty 36:09 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 36:09 "Here's the instruction manual of being a monk." And if you do anything other than the ins- instruction manual there, then they'll say contradiction.

Jay Shetty 36:15 Yeah. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 36:15 They'll say, "You're a monk. How do you live in LA, Jay?"

Jay Shetty 36:17 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 36:17 "You have a, you have a, a nice home. You make money."And the- and so, what is th- what is it about these labels that we give people and then we- society then tries to enforce, and if you step outside of the implicit instructions of the box that we've labeled you in, we go, "Fraud"?

Jay Shetty 36:33 Yeah. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 36:33 What is- what is that?

Jay Shetty 36:34 There's a really good meme on social media that I've seen fly about for years, and it says, "Society says, 'Be yourself.'" And then it says, "No, not like that." (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 36:47 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 36:47 And I don't know who invented it-

Steven Bartlett 36:49 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 36:49 ... but it's been out there in, in the meme world for years, and I love it because I'm like, "That's exactly it." And I... The way you just explained what you said-

Steven Bartlett 36:55 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 36:55 ... I've actually never heard it said better than that, so you've just explained in-

Steven Bartlett 36:58 Oh, thanks man.

Jay Shetty 36:58 ... 30 seconds what I've-

Steven Bartlett 36:59 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 36:59 ... I've been trying to ramble on about-

Steven Bartlett 37:00 Yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 37:00 ... for the past three minutes. Uh, but, but that's exactly it, that we want to label people, we want to label things, we want to label everyone. Now, let's take The Rock, Dwayne The Rock Johnson. We la- we could label him a wrestler, but that wrestler is one of the biggest actors in the world today, and forget actors, he's a brand beyond that. Now, if we labeled him as a wrestler and said, "No, no, no, you just have to stay a wrestler," you'd never get to see this. If you look at Steve Jobs, well, you started by making computers. You're a computer maker, so just make computers. Why are you inventing iTunes? Why are you inventing the phone? Now, I think it gets harder when it gets to things that are spiritually intertwined, and I grew up with a belief for a long time that if you were truly spiritual, you had to be poor, you had to have nothing, you had to be completely detached and disconnected. And I found out that's a worthy pursuit and has some beautiful rewards at the end of it, as a journey, but I also saw, having lived that life as a monk, that there were certain areas of impact, certain conversations that we never got to be a part of. There were certain things in mainstream society that we never got to shift, and that's something that called out to my heart personally, where I felt, "Well, what if mental health was mainstream?" That that was a mainstream conversation that everyone in the world had access to the tools to help themselves for free, through podcasting, through interviews, through books, through videos, through content. What if everyone in the world had access to what I have access to as a monk? But what does that need? That needs staff, it needs employees, it needs eight cameras, it needs a microphone-

Steven Bartlett 38:44 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 38:44 ... it needs people, it needs teams, it needs a business. So, what looks like a business on the outside is just purpose on the inside-

Steven Bartlett 38:52 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 38:52 ... but we're so schooled and trained to judge things for what they externally look like, not what they internally are, that we don't give ourselves that expansive, abundant mindset to say, "Well, maybe this could be more." Now, I'm not saying that I don't have imperfections, and I'm not saying that I don't love things as well. Like, I- I like nice things. I like nice clothes, I like fashion, I like, uh, I like living in a nice space, so I li- I like nice things, and I would never shy away from that. But I'm also fully aware that I don't depend on my happiness on those things.

Steven Bartlett 39:29 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 39:29 I'm not putting what I believe is going to make me joyful on those things. But I appreciate having them-

Steven Bartlett 39:35 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 39:35 ... but I've also appreciated life when I didn't have them, so they've never defined whether I've worked hard or worked on my purpose.

Steven Bartlett 39:41 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 39:42 If that makes sense.

Steven Bartlett 39:43 100%. You know, there's two times in this conversation where you've- you've made points where- where the kind of conclusion that my head has arrived at is-

Jay Shetty 39:49 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 39:49 ... we have to meet in the middle if- if we're gonna make progress.

Jay Shetty 39:51 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 39:52 The first time you did that was when you were talking about, um, having like an argument with- with a wife or a partner or whatever it might be, and you've got to actually like meet in the middle and say, "This is maybe where I can improve, and maybe this is where, you know, you s- step to file." And then you said it again there with, um, with the example of spirituality, and probably like the business world, they're seen as polar opposites. One is all about, you know, maybe a- a less- a- a- a less of a desire for material possession and attainment and climbing and capitalism, and the other is the int- the- the definition of it. And you're saying, well, really, if we are to spread the message of spirituality around the world, we're gonna need to learn a little bit from the other side about-

Jay Shetty 40:29 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 40:29 ... building and scaling and- and... And I- I just think I- that phrase, "the truth is in the middle," has haunted me for the last couple of weeks since I came back from Indi- Indonesia because, um, it seems to be the nature of everything. And we're actually moving away from that as a polarized society, Black/white, police/the people, rich/poor, you know?

Jay Shetty 40:45 Man/woman, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 40:46 Exactly, so... (laughs)

Jay Shetty 40:47 And- and it's beautiful you said that actually, because the Buddha always talked about the middle path.

Steven Bartlett 40:52 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 40:52 So, he called it the middle path-

Steven Bartlett 40:54 Interesting.

Jay Shetty 40:54 ... for that reason, from what you just said-

Steven Bartlett 40:56 Oh, wow.

Jay Shetty 40:56 ... that it was always about the middle path, that the answer was somewhere... I interviewed Kristen Bell recently, and she wrote a book called Why the World Needs More Purple People, and that's because of the red and blue states.

Steven Bartlett 41:07 Ah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 41:07 So the idea of this- idea of like meeting in the middle, that there's some answers that you only come across if you can entertain this idea and this idea and look for the connection. And what I love is that for everything we're talking about, someone's thought about it and talked about it before, and when I think of someone who defined what we're talking about really well... And this is a quote, a thought that- an insight that I try and live my life by, and it's from Martin Luther King. And he said that, "The people that love peace need to learn to organize themselves, as well as the people who love war."

Steven Bartlett 41:46 Hmm.

Jay Shetty 41:47 And to me, that's what's been missing so- for so long in spirituality and wellness and health, is that we can speak about these things in this really organic, beautiful way-

Steven Bartlett 41:57 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 41:57 ... but if it doesn't get organized, and if it doesn't get strategic, and it doesn't get focused-

Steven Bartlett 42:03 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 42:04 ... it just kind of feels like splattered paint, and it doesn't allow people to practically apply it in their life. So sometimes when people say, "Jay, what you're saying is so simple, it's so basic," I'm like, "Yeah, I'm- I'm choosing to do that because that's what we all need." Like, don't we all need to make this really simple and easy and practical? I know that's what I need. And by the way, I love getting caught up in a heady intellectual conversation, and I've studied the Vedas that are 5,000 years old, and I can reel off verses and talk about philosophical intricacies, but...I don't think that's going to help people at this stage.

Steven Bartlett 42:38 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 42:39 And that didn't help me when I started, so for me, I like to focus in on, how can we get focused around powerful, simple ideas?

Steven Bartlett 42:46 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 42:47 And a powerful, simple idea that loads of my guests come here and talk about, and it's interesting that they do because they are incredibly successful people typically, um, is this idea of meditation and the power of meditation. Now, I've heard this word meditation for many a year, and increasingly over time, I've become more compelled by it-

Jay Shetty 43:04 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 43:04 ... and started doing it. Thanks a lot to my girlfriend as well. Um, so... And you write about it a lot in your book. I mean, a couple of the chapters mention... I mean, pretty mu- um, several of the chapters medit- mention the power of meditation. Talk to me about this simple idea of meditation and what the impact has been for you and can be for those listening.

Jay Shetty 43:23 So in the book, I present three different types of meditation that I was trained in as a monk and that I was exposed to, and they are breath work, visualization, and mantra. So if you look at all types of meditations that exist today in the world, there are three tools or three formats in which you can do it. Breath work, obviously naturally it says it in the name, it's all about your breathing. And breath work is generally aimed at body and physical. So if you're having physical anxiety, physical stress, if you're rushing around, your heart rate's gone up, breath work is a beautiful way to come back into alignment. Now, visualization's really interesting because visualization is used by everyone from Lewis Hamilton when he's driving his car around a track through to David Beckham before he took a free kick. Visualization was the art of sitting in one place, closing your eyes, and visualizing, what's that track gonna look like? What's that turn gonna feel like? How's that ball gonna move? It's visualizing the process, not the result, and that's what's fascinating. Western society has made it all about visualizing the result. Visualize yourself at the top of the podium and the goal. The smartest people in the world are visualizing the process and the work and the journey, and that's where manifestation's gone wrong. We can get back to that. And then finally, mantra or sound. So the oldest texts on meditation believe that sound has the power to transport and connect us in a way that no other type of meditation can. Now, we can... we all have experience with this. When you hear a song from your past-

Steven Bartlett 45:00 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 45:00 ... you're taken back there immediately. When you hear a song that has maybe some ego in it, or there's a song that you-

Steven Bartlett 45:09 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 45:09 ... that you listen to on your way to a party or a nightclub because it pumps you up and it makes you feel good. There are songs that make you feel violent. Sound has the ability to wake you up in the morning. You don't wake up by sight. You don't wake up by scent. You don't wake up by taste. You wake up by sound. Sound has the power to awaken deeper parts of us depending on what level it's at. So when you look at meditation, you have breath work, you have visualization, you have sound. You can try a mix. You can try one or the other. Ultimately, for me, meditation is an opportunity to build a relationship with yourself. That's truly what it is. To build your relationship with your body, with your mind, with your heart, and with your consciousness. And as you continue to meditate through breath work, through visualization, through mantra and sound, that's all that's doing. It's just deepening your relationship with yourself. It's almost like saying, "Oh, when I'm with my girlfriend or my wife, what do I do?"

Steven Bartlett 46:07 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 46:07 "Oh, there is few activities and experiences that you do. You go out for dinner. You watch a movie. You go for a walk." Okay, well, what do I do on my own? Well, when I meditate on my own, I get to know myself better.

Steven Bartlett 46:17 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 46:17 And that's the beginning of what meditation is, but the greatest benefits of meditation come from using the right tool for the right part of your life. So before I'm coming on a podcast like this or going on stage, if I'm feeling nervous or my heart rate's going up, I've recognized that that's because I care. It's because I really, really care what I'm about to do and I want to be of service to others. I want what I say to help someone. I want what I say to hopefully start someone's meditation journey, potentially. And if that's the case, then I need to be aligned, so I'll practice breath work. I'll breathe in for four and out for four. This simple practice just brings me back into alignment.

Steven Bartlett 46:58 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 46:58 See, Stephen, we all have this experience. How many times have you ever woken up and you feel your mind is ahead of your body?

Steven Bartlett 47:06 Every day. (laughs)

Jay Shetty 47:07 Your body wants to stay in bed and your mind is racing.

Steven Bartlett 47:10 (laughs) Yeah.

Jay Shetty 47:10 Or you experience the opposite.

Steven Bartlett 47:12 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 47:12 Your body is racing and your mind is still in bed. So most of our stress and tension in life comes from a lack of alignment in our body and our mind. Our body's racing 100 miles per hour and our mind is slow, or our mind's racing 100 miles per hour and our body's slow. To bring them back into alignment, you breathe in for the same amount of time as you breathe out. Simply doing that brings you back into alignment. Visualization I use for when I think I'm about to start a difficult journey and I think, "I may lose a bit of patience," or, "I feel like I really need to practice this." Imagine this, as I'm about to go on stage doing something that's really a big deal and important for me, I'm gonna visualize myself pacing back and forth on stage. I'm gonna visualize myself communicating that message. I'm gonna visualize myself being really energetic on stage. Notice I'm not visualizing people clapping. I'm not visualizing people saying, "That was amazing," because that's just setting a false expectation. I'm visualizing my performance being the best that it possibly can. And then mantra and sound, which is a big part of my meditation every day, I do to connect with my deeper self, I do to awaken parts of me that I've forgotten and to feel a connection to a higher power in

Jay Shetty 48:27 the divine.

Steven Bartlett 48:28 There's so many people listening, right? And, uh, you said that so beautifully and eloquently, um, who I imagine listen to me doing these podcasts, and they've maybe tuned in 'cause they wanted a business podcast, and they go, "Oh, here goes Steve again talking about-"

Jay Shetty 48:38 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 48:38 ... meditation or whatever," and the, the react- the... That reaction is probably caused by the...... the, I don't know, the historic kind of snobbery that surrounds spirituality. It can be quite a exclusive club, right?

Jay Shetty 48:53 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 48:53 And the terminology can feel very exclusive to normal people and chakras and all of this stuff, and alignment. It can... And when, when words like that are said to some people who are, who aren't near the middle, who are very much at the other end of the spectrum, they just turn off to it.

Jay Shetty 49:08 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 49:09 So if I was to s- be someone who's listening to this now, driving in my van on my way to, to work this morning, and I see a lot of people in their vans driving, listening to the podcast, um, what would you say is a really good, just a first step to, to investigate for themselves, subjectively, if meditation can, can add value to their life? Where would they start?

Jay Shetty 49:28 Yeah. I would say that the first thing you wanna do is put something in your schedule, in your calendar, which is time for you. If you look at your schedule, you would never cancel an important meeting with someone else, but we don't even schedule one with ourself. There is nothing in the calendar that's, "Time with myself, time for me, time for you, time for just this, this whole thing that's going on right now." Literally put it in for five minutes a day. If you can't do five minutes, do it for two minutes a day. Just put it in there, because if you start putting that in there, you might then tomorrow go, "Okay, well, what am I gonna do with this time? I've got five minutes. Wow, okay. What am I gonna do with it?" So start putting it in there. That's the first step. The second step, I would say, is definitely focus on your breath. I think the breath is just something we can all relate to, it's tangible. By the way, athletes have to learn how to control their breath. Musicians have to learn how to control their breath. Whether you're Adele or whether you're a s- a football player, you have to learn how to breathe in order to perform. Me, you, and everyone, we're all athletes in different ways. We all use our bodies, we all use our minds, whether you're a businessperson or whether you're an actual athlete playing on a, on a court or a pitch.

Steven Bartlett 50:35 But are you saying that I don't know how to breathe? Is that-

Jay Shetty 50:37 I am saying you don't know how to breathe. Yeah, and not you specifically. I'm saying that most people don't know how to breathe, and I didn't know how to breathe until I was taught how to breathe. And I know that sounds ridiculous, but how many times a day do you get out of breath? I know there's times of day that I get out of breath. How many times of the day do you feel that when you're experiencing an emotion, your breath changes? Like, when you're crying or you're sad or you're upset, your breath changes. When you're happy and elated, your breath changes. So our breath is connected to every single emotion. So if we want to navigate our emotions and our life, we have to train our breath. So I would just say to everyone, take out two to three minutes and just take a moment to breathe in and out, and breathe in for four and out for four. Just try it as simply as that. Now, if you're someone who struggles to get to sleep, which can often be something that I think everyone struggles with, that's when you wanna breathe out for longer than you breathe in. So if you're breathing in for four, breathe out for more than four to relax and rest your body. And if you're one of these people that goes, "Jay, I've got..." You know, "I've got..." Like you said, "I've gotta do a delivery today. I've gotta run to this meeting. I've gotta get to this," and you need more energy, breathe out for less time than you breathe in. So you may breathe in for a second and breathe out for a millisecond. It's a really sharp breath out. And if you do that, you'll feel this pumping energy in your body. And so to me, it's, these are really practical tools that I think... We all need to sleep, so everyone knows their meditation for sleep. We all need to get energized, so that's a simple-

Steven Bartlett 52:01 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 52:01 ... meditation for energize. And we all need to just feel like we're not rushing.

Steven Bartlett 52:05 Yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 52:06 So I think those are hopefully quick things-

Steven Bartlett 52:08 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 52:08 ... that feel practical to anyone and everyone.

Steven Bartlett 52:10 Yeah, I mean, I'm... I, I think my natural position on, on things is to be a little bit of a skeptic. And I... When I was in Indonesia the last time, I... My girlfriend brought me to see a breath work coach. And before we did the breath work, he explained it to me. And so this is, this is... As a logical guy like I am, the explanation matters a lot.

Jay Shetty 52:28 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 52:28 And he was talking to me about, um, how we pretty much live most of our lives these days, because of the over- overstimulation, because of the stress, because of the screens, in this kind of like permanent state of fight or flight.

Jay Shetty 52:38 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 52:39 And when you look at what happens in fight or flight... And I studied biology. I know what happens to the body, um, ana- anatomically and physically. Your, y- what happens to your digestive tract. And I mean, this is what a lot of people say when they say, "I'm nervous" and they've lost their appetite. That's your body preparing and keeping the minerals and nutrients it needs to expend energy to help you in a situation. On the Serengeti, when a lion is running at you, that's a very prehistoric, innate part of our conditioning. And we do live on edge.

Jay Shetty 53:06 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 53:07 Our notifications run our lives and all of these things. So when we think about why people might be getting a little bit more anxious day to day, it's probably because we're living in, like, a heightened state of fight or flight, and one of the things that happens in fight or flight as well is your breathing changes. So yeah, and th- and then I think about the moments where I'm feeling a little bit stressed, and one thing I've done, I... My f- It's so funny, my head went straight to New York City-

Jay Shetty 53:28 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 53:28 ... is I'll go, I'll stop and I'll just go (breathes deeply) . And whenever I do that, someone turns to me and goes, "Are you okay?" (laughs)

Jay Shetty 53:35 Yeah. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 53:35 They always go... I'm fine, I'm just-

Jay Shetty 53:37 Look at him now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 53:38 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, I completely agree and, um-

Jay Shetty 53:40 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 53:40 ... I, I think it's one of those things that I think everybody listening, regardless of who you are or-

Jay Shetty 53:44 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 53:44 ... how much of a tough guy you are, you should, um, definitely consider for yourself-

Jay Shetty 53:48 Oh, you're a tough guy, Steven, so you know.

Steven Bartlett 53:49 Ah, well, I... Not really.

Jay Shetty 53:50 No? No, not really? No.

Steven Bartlett 53:51 I'm a bit softer-

Jay Shetty 53:52 Okay, all right.

Steven Bartlett 53:52 ... you know, around the edges.

Jay Shetty 53:53 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 53:53 This...

Steven Bartlett 53:54 Let's talk a little bit about fear then-

Jay Shetty 53:55 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 53:55 ... 'cause we t- we talked about that there. In your book, in chapter three, you, you talk about there being good fear and bad fear. How can fear be a good thing?

Jay Shetty 54:06 I realized that fear could be healthy or unhealthy based on how I used it. And most of us don't realize that we get consumed by fear instead of using fear. So fear becomes our being, in the sense that fear becomes what controls us. It tells us what we should do and what we shouldn't do. It tells us how we should think and we shouldn't think. It stops us from doing stuff that's really important to us, and it makes us do things that we would never, ever do. It makes us say things to people that we love that we would never want to say to them. And on the other end, it stops you from saying things you really wanna say to someone because you don't wanna appear weak.... and your ego won't let you. So fear takes this really magnetic, controlling effect on our whole lives, but fear, at the same time, can be one of the healthiest things because it's basically giving you a signal as to what's important. It's basically giving you as a signal as to how you feel. And when you use it as a signal, not as a suggestion or a push, it changes everything. So let's, let's make that practical. When you are in your home and if the fire alarm goes off, that gives you a signal to say, "Check for the fire. Check if there's a fire," right? Now if you go, "Oh, I'll just turn it off. It doesn't matter. Let's, let's avoid my fear. Let's avoid it. Let's just turn it off. Let's forget about it," your house could burn down, or if you're lucky, there was nothing and it's fine.

Steven Bartlett 55:43 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 55:44 But the odds are that there could be a fire. Now if you're someone who goes, "Well, let me inspect it. Let me be curious about that. I am scared that there's a fire in my house now that I've heard the fire alarm, but let me be curious. Let me inspect. Let me check," imagine we approached our fear in that way. Imagine every time I felt scared of something, I said, "Well, let me get curious about this. Why am I scared of this? Why is it affecting me so much? What about this scares me? Is it all of it, or is it just a part of it?" When you start doing it, you start to break that fear down, and that's the healthy way of looking at fear rather than the unhealthy way of saying, "Forget about it. Keep it away from me. I don't wanna go there." And so for me, I really feel that fear is what blocks us from these beautiful breakthroughs in life, and yet has such a chokehold on us. Like it's such a strong hold on us, and I think most of us are living our lives because we're scared of what someone will say, what someone will think, or what someone will do, and that feels like something that we're gonna regret when we're at the end of our lives.

Steven Bartlett 56:52 Well, they d- they do, right?

Jay Shetty 56:53 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 56:53 So they, they interview people, as you know, on their deathbed, and this is the number one regret of their dying. Your DMs, they must be full of people that are e- exhibiting exactly that behavior, because I know mine are.

Jay Shetty 57:03 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 57:03 A young person saying, "I'm in this job. I'm in this relationship. I... It sucks, but..."

Jay Shetty 57:09 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 57:10 Fear, right?

Jay Shetty 57:10 Yes, yes.

Steven Bartlett 57:11 Fear of change, fear of uncertainty, whatever it might be. What do you typically say to those people that, you know, th- they, they hate the situation they're in, but the fear is kind of imprisoning them t- to, i- into inaction?

Jay Shetty 57:22 I think I always meet it... I always... I was saying this to someone on my team this morning, actually. I, I always try and meet everyone with compassion and not judgment, because I know what it feels like to experience that, and I still experience that in different areas of my life.

Steven Bartlett 57:38 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 57:38 So it's always there, and I think if you don't meet it with compassion, you can kind of say something really energetic in the moment and kind of make them feel like they've solved it, but that isn't really wearing it down. I think, for me, the first thing is to acknowledge that that fear is real, to acknowledge that there potentially will be backlash, that there potentially will be someone who's upset. Because I think often we're told, "Oh, no, just do what you want, and it doesn't matter," and I'm like, "Well, it does matter, because maybe you are a good person and you don't want someone to be upset, or you don't wanna let your parents down, or you don't wanna hurt someone, right? Or you don't want to, uh, ruin your reputation by quitting your job or whatever it may be." And I think it's important to acknowledge that that's real and that may happen. But I think what I try and do next is say, "Okay, well, let's say you didn't change anything. How are you gonna feel in five to 10 years?" And that's my favorite question to ask someone, "Let's not change anything about your life. How does it feel in five to 10 years?" And if it feels worse than what you think it is now, chances are, that even if you're gonna hurt someone, that's probably the better way to go. But if you say you're gonna feel the same or better, then sure, just accept that. And most people will say, "Well, no, if I, if I don't change anything, if I don't get out of this, my life's going to be worse."

Steven Bartlett 58:51 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 58:51 But here's the other thing. I think we're always conditioned to think that we need to change our situation to create a change in our life, and actually, with what both of us believe, it's all about change in perspective and mindset. I have learned things from jobs that I hated but that are so useful to me right now.

Steven Bartlett 59:14 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 59:14 I have learned things from relationships with people I've had, and those people that I didn't get along with, but those lessons are still serving me today. I've been in countless situations where I wanted to get out that situation, but that situation was perfectly designed to show me something. And the problem is, we're constantly trying to just move and get away-

Steven Bartlett 59:34 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 59:35 ... and so really what I say to everyone is, "I want you to find out what is the perspective shift that this situation is trying to create in your life, because if you take that with you, that perspective is gonna stay with you no matter the situation. But if you just keep trying to change your environment, hoping that your life's going to improve, you're gonna feel dissatisfied at the next place and the next place and the one after that." And I feel we're just conditioned to say, "Okay, you don't like your job? Quit your job."

Steven Bartlett 1:00:01 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:00:01 "You don't like your relationship? Quit your relationship." It's not the job or relationship. It's the way you see it-

Steven Bartlett 1:00:06 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:00:06 ... and I think we just keep saying that it's this external shell that we're in-

Steven Bartlett 1:00:10 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:00:11 ... when it's actually this shell and what's happening inside of it that's defining all of these perspectives.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:16 So

Steven Bartlett 1:00:17 much... I mean, that was a unbelievably beautiful answer, and I'm gonna 100% steal that answer, I want you to know. (laughs)

Jay Shetty 1:00:22 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:00:23 Especially that five-year point, because it's, it is a really good sort of mental, um, game to, to role play. Um, one of the things I was thinking when, you know, you were talking then, is about a lot of those messages that we'll get on Instagram or wherever it might be. They're centered in insecurity, some kind of insecurity, and because we have a lot of followers, you significantly more than me, and because we have a big audience, what people will assume is that we have all the answers, that we've got it all figured out and that we live our lives like saints. And I always wanna be s- really clear on this podcast that I absolutely do not.

Jay Shetty 1:00:53 Same.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:54 So let's talk about that.How about we go back and forward and we just say a couple of things we're really, really bad at and we wanna improve on, whether they are insecurities, they are, um, lessons, wisdom we know, but we don't follow-

Jay Shetty 1:01:06 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:01:06 ... et cetera, et cetera. You please be my guest. You go first. (laughs)

Jay Shetty 1:01:08 Yes. Okay. I love it. Uh, oh, this one's been the one that the universe keeps teaching me, so when, if I think about this question, this is the first thing that came to my mind. I keep believing that I'm going to meet someone who's going to help me take my work to the next level, and so I always have had this belief, and I don't know where it comes from. It's, it's one of those ones that I still need to figure out. Where every year I'll be like, "Oh, well, yeah, yeah, if I'm working with that person, that person, like, as a manager or, or an agent or whatever it was, like, that person's gonna help me get to another stage." And the universe just keeps teaching me every year that it's you, it's you, it's you, it's you. Like, you've got to do it for yourself. There's not gonna be anyone that comes into your life and changes your life. But my naivety, every year, is to try and look for that person.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:56 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:01:56 And if someone asked me and said, "Well, Jay, who's going to be that person for me?" I would tell them, "No. What are you talking about? It's you." That's what I would say to them. I- off the bat, it's, I would say to someone, "Stop depending on other people. Stop waiting for someone to change your life. You have to change your life." But then in my own life, I keep my actions show-

Steven Bartlett 1:02:13 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:02:13 ... that I'm still looking for that. So that's the first thing. I'm sure that-

Steven Bartlett 1:02:15 Sure.

Jay Shetty 1:02:15 Let's go back and forth.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:16 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:02:16 I like this. Yeah, there's, there's gonna be plenty more, so.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:18 Okay, so the, the first... I kinda... Loads came to mind.

Jay Shetty 1:02:20 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:20 So I'll just... I'll try and start from the top. So the first thing that came to mind that I, I know the truth upon, and I would preach about on this podcast but I find it hard to do, is I still kind of impose my own bias and beliefs on the world onto others, and I still-

Jay Shetty 1:02:36 Mm.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:36 ... loosely don't understand why everybody doesn't want to do what I want to do with their life. So I don't understand why everybody doesn't want to be successful and push... and climb the ladder and pursue and have nice things and build wealth and build an empire. So sometimes there's this real bias in the advice I give people, and this real kind of, like, naivety and lack of understanding that happiness is the North Star.

Jay Shetty 1:02:59 Mm.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:59 We all have our own path to getting there, and I can even exhibit that as an e- as an employer. I can... My voice can sometimes question why team members might not behave with... in the same way as me, and it's fundamentally because, again, the North Star is happiness-

Jay Shetty 1:03:14 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:03:14 ... and their path to being happy is not the same as mine. And that's a really dangerous game to play, especially when you, you've got a big platform, because you'll make people feel inadequate for their journey to happiness because it doesn't resemble your own.

Jay Shetty 1:03:25 Mm.

Steven Bartlett 1:03:25 And so I really need to get better at understanding we all have different paths. And if I just say to myself, "The H- the North Star is happiness, and we all have our own ways there," then I can stop preaching upon people or assuming that because they are not following my path, they are incorrect.

Jay Shetty 1:03:40 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 1:03:40 So there you go.

Jay Shetty 1:03:40 Yes. I love that. I, I think one of the biggest things I obviously talk about is asking people to take time for themselves and make time for themselves. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:03:50 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 1:03:50 You already know where this is going (laughs) . And, and I think it's really interesting because I, I think I try and I think I do, but I know that this year when it came to... So I, I try and take a full month off every year for myself, and usually I go to India, and because of COVID, I haven't been able to go for the last two years. And I usually go and live with the monks again and, and take part in all the meditations and practices for a month, and it, it's one of my favorite things to do, and I haven't been able to do it for the last two years. So I still decided I would take a month off, and it came... and I said I would do from the 15th of December to the 15th of Jan, and then I found out a week before that I kind of had to stay for an extra week in LA for work. So I delayed it, and I was like, "All right, I'm going to do 22nd of December to the, to the 17th of Jan." And then I, I, I got to London, I started taking that break off, but it was like, I got to a point where I could see that I'd been delaying my self-care.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:47 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:04:47 And I kept delaying it even by that week, and in that week before I left, I could tell that I needed a break, like I needed to switch off. And my advice to everyone is don't let it get to that point. You've got to take it just before that, and I was planning on doing that. It was scheduled, but because of commitments and priorities and important things, I had to push that extra mile. And sure, I'm fine and I'm okay and I feel great, but I don't think that that's sustainable. And I think it was a different journey, and, and this is being honest too, I don't think I pro- I'm a proponent of work-life balance, although it may appear that way. So this may actually be a perception thing. I think people may perceive that Jay believes in perfect work-life balance, and the truth is I don't. I believe in purpose, and purpose to me is being obsessed about what you care about and what's important to you. And so for me, what I do is my purpose, and so I'm obsessed about it, I care about it, I love it, I breathe it, I live it, and when I was building, I was working 18 hours a day. I was, you know... I... A couple of those were meditations, sure, but then I was sleeping for six hours.

Steven Bartlett 1:05:58 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:05:59 But I was working 18 hours a days for two to three years straight, seven days a week.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:03 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:06:04 And I think the perception is often people may feel that, "No, Jay, you live a perfectly balanced life," and I'm like, "Well, no, no, I haven't." Like, to... There's a different skill required to go upwards, then stay, maintain, create momentum. Like, it's a different gear that you're in all the time, and so today my life is far more disciplined in my health and wellness than it's ever been before. But there have been periods of the years getting here that didn't look-

Steven Bartlett 1:06:30 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:06:30 ... like that at all, if that... I, I, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:31 Oh, 100%. I completely get that.

Jay Shetty 1:06:33 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:33 Thank you for sharing that.

Jay Shetty 1:06:34 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:34 I think that's super valuable. Um, my next one would be what you described at the tennis court, which was some days, especially... Because, I mean, these are probably... Everything I say now is probably gonna be an excuse, but I'm gonna say it anyway, but I've presented it as an excuse, so hopefully that kind of-

Jay Shetty 1:06:47 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:06:47 ... is okay.

Jay Shetty 1:06:49 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:06:49 But I think I've geared my mind to care so much about the ef- like, being time efficient-

Jay Shetty 1:06:54 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:54 ... that in situations where things aren't moving with the efficiency that I-... what I- I demand from my business life ... Yeah, I can see you put your hand up here.

Jay Shetty 1:07:02 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:07:03 That I ... My- 'cause- 'cause of my expectations are of efficiency and speed, when I encounter a situation, maybe like the people that were bumbling around with a clipboard at the tennis court-

Jay Shetty 1:07:12 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:07:12 ... that you described, trying to find your membership or whatever, my expectation goes unmet, frustration arrives, and then I might compromise on the way that I behave.

Jay Shetty 1:07:20 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:21 And that might mean being abrupt, being too, too forward with somebody, or being too, too harsh or l- lacking compassion in the way that I say something. People don't know this about me, but when I'm alone, I think about this, it's probably the number one thing I think about, I reflect on how I treated people that day.

Jay Shetty 1:07:36 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:36 And there's been too many days in a row where I've gone, "You fucked that up again, Steve."

Jay Shetty 1:07:39 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:40 "Be better tomorrow." And then-

Jay Shetty 1:07:41 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:41 ... I'll come into tomorrow, the expectation will go unmet. I'll be- I'll become a person I don't wanna be. And I'll say to myself in my private time, I'll say, "You fucked that up again."

Jay Shetty 1:07:49 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:49 And I've been doing that too much for too long.

Jay Shetty 1:07:51 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:07:51 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 1:07:52 I think we all have. I mean, I talk about it in my book. I had this, I had this moment, same thing as you just said. I, uh, this was a couple of years ago in LA and I was traveling around in, in Ubers and going here and there and getting in, or, or Lyft and calling one and jumping in and, and going on. And I got in and, and I was on my phone and doing whatever. And then five minutes later, I realized we hadn't moved.

Steven Bartlett 1:08:14 Hm.

Jay Shetty 1:08:15 And, and that's how consumed I was on my phone, whether I was scrolling or texting or emailing. And I said to the driver, I said, "Is everything okay?" And he said, "You didn't say hello." And he said, "I said a hello to you five minutes ago and you didn't say hello." And I just, it, it was such a like, I was late for my meeting, I was late for a big thing, what ... I felt terrible. I felt so, so bad. And I was like, I really want people to connect with everyone as a human. And I said, "I'm so sorry, what's your name?" Like, like tell ... And then, and he started driving and he wasn't trying to, he wasn't even trying to be abrasive like some people would say, "Oh, well, that's a bit, he's not doing this." I actually don't think it's his fault at all. I think he taught me such a valuable lesson, because I was just kind of like, oh yeah, it's a service, I booked it. Treating him like a robot.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:03 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:09:04 Treating him like a machine.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:05 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:09:05 And yeah, one day we'll have driverless cars and I won't have to say hello, sure. But treating a human in that way-

Steven Bartlett 1:09:11 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:09:12 ... it, I- I think that goes against everything I stand for, is that I want us to become more human.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:18 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:09:19 And I want us to not lose our humanity as technology advances. And I love technology and it's great, but let's not lose our ability to have human connection, which is what brings so much joy to our lives. And so yeah, I-

Steven Bartlett 1:09:32 Amen.

Jay Shetty 1:09:32 ... you know, that- that's one of those moments that I was like, you know, you're really trying to teach me a lesson here, because-

Steven Bartlett 1:09:38 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 1:09:38 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:39 You know what? This, this whole back and forward, if, if it's taught us anything, it's that even people that you presume to, to have the answers from the, from the outside, um, in fact, maybe the, the correct answer is to understand one's own faults, understand we're all really, really imperfect, to be self-aware about those faults, and then make a commitment to being better every day.

Jay Shetty 1:09:59 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:59 I think I'll die imperfect, but trying to be better.

Jay Shetty 1:10:02 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:02 I don't think I'll die perfect. And I think, um, I think that is maybe, there'll probably be people that view the work that you do and say, "God, he's got it all figured out, 100% of things." And I don't, so I'm inadequate.

Jay Shetty 1:10:15 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:16 I need to be Jay, and if I'm not Jay, then I'm inadequate. I'm morally wrong. My values are ba- I'm a bad person. So that's-

Jay Shetty 1:10:23 Mm.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:23 ... kind of, I guess-

Jay Shetty 1:10:23 I love that. I'm so glad. I love the back and forth too.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:25 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:10:25 I, you know, for me it's, it's always wonderful to talk about these things. And I think that's what our generation has changed in this space, because I think we did live at a time when gurus and guides and coaches were revered as flawless, perfect, and you never really saw the behind the scenes. And I think, I- I always say to my team, like, I'm always trying to n- I don't want, I don't even want that pressure. It's, it's pressure and it actually stops you from being sincere and genuine and authentic. And I feel that pressure sometimes. Like, I feel that pressure when someone has a question and I need to rush off, and I'm like, I want to answer it, but I also need to rush off, and I feel that pressure w- And it's just, I- I've realized I don't want that pressure, like, because I'm not perfect and I don't wanna try and pretend I am, or I don't wanna have to live up to it, because it will just let someone down. And it's really interesting because this was around, probably around 11 years ago now, and this was, I was mentoring before I became a monk. When I was a monk, I was a mentor, and then I became a coach. And whenever I took on a mentee or a coach, coaching client or anyone, the, one of the first things I'd say to them in our first meeting is, "I just want you to know that I will let you down. I just want you to know that. That there will be something I do that upsets you, disappoints you, or lets you down. If you're okay with that, let's get started. Like, let's get going."

Steven Bartlett 1:11:46 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:11:46 And I saw the amount of people that walked out that door.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:49 Really?

Jay Shetty 1:11:49 Yeah. There were people that left, because they were expecting divinity in humanity, and they were expecting perfection. And I'm really happy that they left because I would never have been able to live up to that, and I don't even want the pressure.

Steven Bartlett 1:12:02 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:12:02 And so I'm really clear with people, even now, like I work with so many clients, and that's one of the first things I'll say to them. And you see that the people that stay recognize that because they understand they have flaws and we all do. And I also took off the pressure, especially in coaching, where a lot of people think you can change their life. And as an immature coach or therapist, you may think you can change someone else's life. And the more I've coached and the more hours I've racked up with coaching, the more I've realized I don't, I can't change someone's life. I don't have what it takes to change someone's life. I don't have to say something profound every word I say. (laughs) And not everything I say is gonna be perfect and incredible and insightful. And if I can let go of that, I actually might allow something beautiful to happen. Actually trying to do all those things, trying to say something profound every sentence, trying to magically solve someone's problems, trying to be perfect, all of these things actually block something beautiful from happening.

Steven Bartlett 1:13:04 It's kind of interesting because it very much links to what you said about not- not putting the expectation on the outcome. You said that earlier. I'm not going to try and change your life today, but let's just focus in, as you said earlier, on the process of, like, what we can do today. I guess part of my point, the first thing that came to mind there was, we both write quotes and put them out on e- the internet and that kind of thing, but I'm gonna