The Diary of a CEOJessie J: I Quit Music, Deleted An Album, Then Changed My Mind | E139
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,025 words- 0:00 – 1:36
Intro
- SBSteven Bartlett
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- JJJessie J
I felt like I'd been given everything I've ever wanted and then someone had gone, "But you can't have it." I've never felt so lonely in my life. Jessie J. ... went to the room. Forget about the price tag. 2015, '16, it was really the first time that I'd had fame. I didn't know how to cope with it, so I just panicked all the time. I just want to sing. The day that I found out that the baby had died, I didn't have anyone to just fall apart on, and- and that's what I needed, that's what I wanted.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When I sent you that voice note, it was around the time when you'd done a big post about Dave.
- JJJessie J
He was my guy, and I wish I could've protected him from himself like he protected me from myself. That's the bit that hurts me the most. Between Dave and Jamal, the things that those people gave me in my life are things that I know I have to find in myself. You got this bougie-ass place and you've got kitchen roll. I love it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JJJessie J
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
So without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is the Diary of a CEO USA edition. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself.
- 1:36 – 11:18
My childhood and health problems
- SBSteven Bartlett
I tend to believe that people's family are their foundation, and when I was reading through the story of your family in your early years, it actually seemed pretty idyllic.
- JJJessie J
Yeah, I mean, we weren't... My mom and dad... I didn't grow up with loads of money. Like, we weren't hard, hard up, but we weren't rich. Um, but when I think about it again, like, the one thing that I've learned from my parents the most is it doesn't matter about the things and the specifics, it's about the energy you create within what you have. So like, we would go camping in the garden and my dad would pretend to be a bear in the middle of the night, and we b-... I believe to this day it was a bear. Like, you know, my mom's like looking out the window 'cause she's gone in 'cause she's like, "I ain't doing this," and my dad's-
- SBSteven Bartlett
To this day?
- JJJessie J
Yeah, and my dad's peeing in a bucket. Yeah, they're still doing it. Like, not in front of us, 'cause that would be weird, but like, just they used to just create these experiences, and it was all about feeling and that's what I remember the most from my childhood. Like, more so than anything else. Like, it's weird, like, I was in hospital a lot of my childhood and I never ever thought I was sick 'cause my mom and dad never treated me as if I was. Like, they would... It was, it would never, it never became a definitive of who I was which is, I think even why now I don't define myself on that. I don't want to even when other people try. But there was just always this air of making the best of whatever the moment was, even if it was tough.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Your dad worked in mental health.
- JJJessie J
Yeah, he a mental health social worker.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How did that influence your early years having a-
- JJJessie J
Well, my dad is a Pisces through and through. He's an emotional, honest, hilarious, very sensitive, um, stubborn man. And so growing up, he's very in touch with like his feelings and his emotions, which isn't common in a lot of men, you know? And we grew up talking, and I spent a lot of time with my dad when I was young. And he used humor in his job and with us as me and my two sisters and his relationship with my mom. He made her laugh. And even now, my dad's humor is his defense, his, his way of hiding, his way of making friends, his way of healing. And him being a social worker was always that beautiful thing where he used to ride the line where he would open you up, know that you were gonna cry and then make you laugh. And you always feel safe when you're s- very, very sad and then you laugh. The emotions always kind of... They intertwine. Like, deep sadness and, like, intense happiness are so close together. That, like, feeling when you're at a funeral and everyone's crying and then someone makes a joke and everyone bursts into laughter. Like, that's the, the line that my dad is incredible at kind of balancing.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You're good at that too 'cause I've watched you.
- JJJessie J
W- which is where I get it from for sure.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I've watched you in some of your hardest moments and you'll crying, laughing.
- JJJessie J
Yeah, I make a joke, but I- I use it in a way to allow people to feel safe, including myself, to bring out the sadness and the pain, you know? And to, uh, to talk about something really in- really intense, um, or go through a moment that's hard, but then make, make a joke or make light of the situation or laugh at ourselves, you know? And then, like, go into bird's eye view and look down and go, "Look at us, lot. You paid 30 quid to come and cry."
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JJJessie J
You know what I mean? And it's like... And, and it's that thing of you just coming, tapping back into reality and just going, "Oh, God. Like, it's not... I'm not alone." Like, and it's, it's good to laugh and laughter can feel as, to me, as connective as crying with someone, as being intimate with someone. There's that thing that you have where if you're really in that moment, it's such a release.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You said you spent a lot of your time as a kid in hospital.
- JJJessie J
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What was the, the first time you went to hospital?
- JJJessie J
First memory I have, I think I was eight and we was in Epping Forest. Have you been to Epping Forest?
- SBSteven Bartlett
I haven't, no.
- JJJessie J
Probably not. Well, you can go. It's lovely.
- SBSteven Bartlett
They're all the same though, the forests.
- JJJessie J
Um, yeah, so, yeah, it always starts in a forest doesn't it? It's like an episode of Black Mirror. So me and my sisters and my dad were in the park and he said, "Right, let's race to the car."So we started to run and I just remember, I couldn't breathe and I collapsed. And the next thing I remember is my dad picking me up and running to the car. We got into the car, we went to the hospital, and my dad has WPW, my granddad had WPW, which is a heart problem, and so I... That was the first time I was taken in with a regu- a regular heartbeat. Uh, I was put on very heavy medication as a child, um, which would cause me to have, like, seizures and pass out, um, and have... Like, it was just awful. Um, so I was in and out of hospital a lot as a child. It was weird, like I remember being let out for the day to go and do rehearsals for Bugzy Malone-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- JJJessie J
... and then I would go back in, so I'd be on a drip at the rehearsal. So there was always this kind of balance that kept me present in myself and not... And I almost think that that was, that's been my blessing in my life. Like, my health has always kept my feet on the ground, um, in many ways. But I never remember being in hospital and being aware of what I was going through. Every memory I have, I'm always thinking about the people I watched, and remember, like, looking at, going, "God, they need a magazine," or, "They haven't eaten anything today," or, "I wonder how they're feeling." I don't remember being in pain or coming around from an operation or... It's weird. It's trippy. It's almost like it didn't happen.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You define yourself as an empath. You said it when you came in.
- JJJessie J
Yeah, for sure.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And kinda-
- JJJessie J
Even people that hurt me, I feel bad for the people that hurt me, 'cause I look at why they've hurt me as opposed to the way I feel. But again, I don't know, I try and use it as the best I can 'cause I know it's just who I am.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you were in hospital, one of the things that you saw was, um, which inspired Big White Room-
- JJJessie J
Yeah.
- 11:18 – 19:21
Growth in moments of sadness and pain
- JJJessie J
And now all my issues have been on this side, like, this side of my body. So I know, like... It's so weird, 'cause like, when people go, "Oh my God, you had a stroke?" And I'm like, "Yeah." I don't even think about it. I don't define, I don't want to define myself on it. I don't want to introduce myself with it, 'cause like, I'm grateful it happened, because if those things hadn't happened in my life, you know, the menias, the, the uterus issues I've had, the fertility thing, the miscarriage, like, you grow in moments of sadness and pain, you know? And I grew up in those moments, and I didn't take my body for granted. And I think it's actually given me more moments of beautiful success and joy in my life, not drowning my body in alcohol and drugs, and having to take moments of still and resting, and it, it was almost like-... a very young age, a very pivotal time of my career, kinda starting to take off in a more of a, "This could actually be my life" way, my body was, would always keep me safe, even though it was shutting down. It would always just remind me to go, "You're not superhuman. You could die. Don't fuck this up." You know? And so, it almost feels like my health has just always had my back when my life has gone like this (fingers snap) . It's always kind of gone, "Take a second." And for a long time, I felt like I was cast with this spell, that, like, every time I kinda got somewhere, like, I was just about to break America and I broke my foot, and I had to pull out of opening for Katy Perry on tour, and all these things that, like, you know, you've got your thing. You sit with your team and you go, "This is gonna happen and this," and, "Great," and everyone's excited, and then I get sick and, you know? Even to recently, I was about to release my album and my first single, and then I was in a car accident and I had a throat issue where I had nerve and tissue damage, and I couldn't sing, and then my Meniere's, and I went deaf in this ear, and ... But now, I don't even wanna release that album 'cause I don't really like the music.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- JJJessie J
And I'm like, "Maybe that's why it happened." I just feel like I've been protected by my health being what other people would see as bad, but every time something happens to my body, I'm always like, "Okay, what am I not listening to?" Th- like, so I feel like that's my personal way of looking at it and my journey, so, like, when you say, you know, how long was that for, it's kinda been my whole life, you know? Even up until recently when, you know, right when I got my voice back, and I started doing these shows, and I finally was told I could sing again, and I phoned my agent, and I was like, "I have to do like a, I don't know, like a residency somewhere," and I started doing these acoustic shows. And I was like, "I really wanna do standup." You know, "I wanna do comedy, I wanna make people laugh and sing." That's literally my purpose, right? And then the day before the first show, I have a miscarriage, and I still went and did it. You know, not 'cause the show must go on, but to me, like, Jessie J and Jessica Cornish, like, Jessie J's just a brand name. They go hand-in-hand, they're the same person. You know, the reason that my music exists is 'cause my life exists, and I write about shit I go through, you know? So I wanna stand in the middle of the pain, even when it's terrifying and you're being exposed, but even in that moment, I was like, "This, I know this happened for a reason." You know, like, the day that I found out that my, that the baby had died, this man, and I c- you know, I can't make this stuff up, and I always wish someone would see these things happen, but I was on the street crying uncontrollably. I w- felt like I'd, my body had gone numb, like I was just on the street and I, I was standing there and I couldn't move. I literally just stood at this bush for like two hours, and I was phoning everybody that I knew to try and answer the phone and just t- 'cause I was by myself, I was in Santa Monica, and this man came up to me and said, "I don't know what's going on in your life in this second, but I know that it's happening so that you can talk about it and help other people." And I remember just going, "That's the story of my life," and the anger I felt where I was like, "Why can't this just be about me?" Like, "Why c- why do I have to help someone else?" And then I realized, that is what I've been called on to do.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- JJJessie J
Like, I know that what I do is so much bigger than me. It's not about the song or the, the accolades or the awards or this, it's about the feeling that you can hand over to someone that they can't find themselves, and I have experienced so many things that are so randomly rare, and then also I've experienced things that aren't rare at all but no one talks about. And the amount of women and men that have been close to someone losing a baby or h- or having infertility issues or losing children themselves, or even women that have had children that don't know how to connect with their children, talking about that pain not only helped me but helped other people, and I know that, like, going back to what you asked me before, like, I know that's so much of my purpose, as much as hard as it can be in moments. I get so much peace from knowing that pain that I know I can handle and have a different perspective of than someone else that might not, that I can share that with them and give them a different perspective as they can me, but obviously I do it on a m- maybe a bigger platform. It is such a amazing feeling for me to be able to give that to someone that can't find it on their own.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's a heavy weight to carry to always have to be the inspiration though, right?
- JJJessie J
Yeah, for sure, but it isn't always the case, um, but I think it's just understanding that, like, understanding that after I did that first show, a huge part of me regretted it 'cause I was angry that I reacted as Jessie J. I reacted as my brand, I reacted as, "I need people to know I'm okay, like, I don't want people to think I'm this always sick, always ill, always have something going on." Like, "Didn't she just go deaf?" That's the comments. "Didn't she just, like, duh-duh-duh-duh." You know, like, when you go into a new relationship, people are like, "Wasn't she just with so-and-so?" And it's like, and that was two years ago, but they live in a little bubble of when they wanna discover things.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You're talking about doing the show...
- JJJessie J
The, the show after the day after I had a miscarriage.
- SBSteven Bartlett
The day after you had a miscarriage.
- JJJessie J
Like, in the sense of the reaction of, of going, "I must, the show must go on, I must ..." I'd, I, after that show, I surrendered to my pain, and for nobody else but myself, and that's something that I've, I don't think I've ever done.And a lot of grief came out. Grief of, of grandparents, of friends, of people that I've lost. That it all came out in that moment, and still is, to be honest. It was only four months ago that this happened, five months ago. So I feel like a lot of grief that I had stored in interviews where I was like, "You know, and you've just got to find this," and it's always looking for the silver lining, I actually just enabled myself to just break open and be miserable and sad, and not have a quote at the end of my moment. And just go, "No, it's shit. And I'm broken, and it's awful, and I'm sad." But knowing that the light would come, and it did, and it- and- and- and it is. Um, but knowing that speeding up my process of grief because it makes somebody else feel good is great, but also not going to be healthy
- 19:21 – 27:42
Finding out about your fertility problems
- JJJessie J
for me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you remember the day when you found out that you would struggle to ... or the doctor told you that you would struggle to have children?
- JJJessie J
Oh, yeah. It was in the middle of a really major busy time for me. It was right before Bang Bang. And I was on all- doing all these different shows, and I basically would have this extreme pain, like, agonizing pain. I would pass out, it was awful, and they were like, "You have IBS." And I was like, "No, I don't. I know I don't have IBS." Like ... And they would just be like, "Yes, you do, that's what it is," and I was like, "No. I know myself, I know my body, I know it's not IBS." And I stuck with it, and I was like ... I went to ke- kept going to see different doctors, and I finally got diagnosed with endometriosis, which is very common. And then I had an operation that, you know, they took all the endometrios- my endometriosis out. I went home. I still live with my parents. I went home, and I was still in agony, and I was still having the episodes. And so I went back into hospital and they did another operation where they discovered I have adenomyosis, which is a form of endometriosis that goes into the wall of the uterus. So they're little cells that you can't take out unless you take your uterus out. So they were like, "You either manage the pain," which at the time I was like, "How do I do this?" "Or we take your uterus out right now." And I was, what, 26? And I was like ... And he was like, "I would recommend you to- to do that. You know, this is only gonna get worse." And I said, "I'm good. I'll go home and I'll look at other ways I can look up and manage my pain." And that's when I went plant-based. That was, you know, years and years and years ago. And it definitely helped and improved, and I changed my lifestyle, and kind of slowed my pace down, you know, after that record, the Bang Bang Sweet Talker record. And I took a long time, not off, but just slowed down. And that's when I wrote the Rose album. And so there's like, behind the scenes, there's always a story for everybody. Um, but yeah, that moment was super pivotal for me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Lot of things happened at once. I was reading that, I think it was around the time you were in Australia-
- JJJessie J
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... 2015, 2016 time. And you, uh, you'd lost your grandparents.
- JJJessie J
Yeah. Within like four or five months of each other.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You'd had a breakup.
- JJJessie J
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And then
- NANarrator
you come in.
- JJJessie J
I break up- my first breakup that was kind of public, because I was with someone that was as- you know, was famous. And just discovering myself, you know. Like, it was really the first time that I'd had fame, in America too. And so like, when I was famous in the UK, like I obviously I came here a lot, and it was kind of great because I was like, "Ooh, I can just do whatever I want and no one cares." So it was kind of like I could just escape to just live-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- JJJessie J
... completely in the knowledge that I would leave my house or my hotel, and for the whole day, no one would be like ... You know, like, or just come up to me with a camera phone or whatever. And I just- I needed that. I was still quite young, and you know, and I- I missed staring at people and getting away with it. You know what I mean?
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JJJessie J
Just like watching people eat, or like staring at someone in the car next to you and knowing they're not going to look over and be like ... You know? And so I remember coming here and just having that, and then I didn't have that as much anymore here. And I just felt really trapped. Really trapped. Like, that was the lowest point that I've had in myself in this industry, was 2014, '15, '16, in- when I was back and forth from Australia. And in that time, that's when I moved here in 2015.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you say trapped, what's the symptoms of being trapped? What does that- what does that manifest itself into?
- JJJessie J
I just felt like I couldn't breathe. I felt like everywhere I went, someone was watching me. I felt like I couldn't eat in public because someone would film me and comment on it, comment on what I was wearing, comment on my body, comment on ... I just- it felt- it always felt like I was being followed. That was the biggest thing where my anxiety came from. And someone telling me or giving me something that I would then have to focus on that I'd never s- saw, like that I have a big jaw, that I have, like, this, or I have cellulite, or I have that. Like, where I would never even ... It wasn't a thing. And then someone would go, "Have you ever noticed that she, like, says, like, um, or like, li- li- like a lot?" And then I'd be, like, conscious of the way I spoke, and ... You know? Like whe- as- when you first get somebody commentating on everything you do and are, I was just like, "How do I- how do I live unconsciously now?" Like, "How do I go to the beach without feeling like..."... I'm in my underwear in front of a, someone hiding in the bushes taking pictures. How do I do that? You know? And I still don't know sometimes, even now. And so I just, I felt like I couldn't... It felt like I had to relearn how to do life. Like I'd, I, I was comfortable going in front of 100,000 people and singing a song, no problem. But going to put petrol in my car? I literally was like, "I don't even know how to do it." I would drop the thing. Like I, I, I would, like, wouldn't be able to lock the thing on the car 'cause I would feel like someone was watching me and, like, I, it just destroyed me, and I remember just, I wouldn't leave my hotel room. Like, I went out and bought, like, 50 hats, and even though it probably wasn't as bad as that, no, you don't go to h- like, and I get that even me talking about it now, like, I'm conscious that there'll be people watching this going, "All right, well, you, you fucking asked to be famous. Get over it." Like, there's no space to feel like... You know what? There's parts of it that are amazing, but there are parts of it that are so toxic and unhealthy and so inhumane, and no one has a lot of space to be em- like to have any empathy for that. And that's, and I'm not talking about all the time, I'm just talking about that moment in my life. I just felt like I had no one I could talk to that had experienced it to guide me, to go, "You're okay. You're safe." Like, "No one's gonna hurt you," you know? And I just felt so alone. I felt like I was hovering above everybody in every room I was in. Like, I wasn't able to just exist playing a game at a friend's house, that I was always just like, "Is everyone thinking about what I'm saying and they're gonna repeat it?" And so I just panicked all the time, of th- that someone was gonna misread what I was saying or if I was in a bad mood and I went to like a fish and chip shop and I was like, didn't wanna take a picture, that they would then tell someone else and it would get to the Daily Mail.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Did that happen?
- JJJessie J
Oh, all the time. Jessie J, DeMar. I mean there were times where I then would almost... I memph- I remember for a little while, for a couple months, I became what the press told me I was, 'cause I got so tired of justifying that I wasn't mean and I wasn't a diva that I was like, "Yeah, let me just be what they say I am 'cause that's what people think I am anyway." And even when I am nice, like some, when... I remember going into a room and being like, "Hi everyone," and no one responding and me going, "Hi," and everyone's like this, like... You know, like, when you're like at that, it's weird. It's like a... And that was like, and I'm talking about that time when it was like peak kind of everywhere fame, Saturday night ti- T- S- Saturday night TV, and it was just such a trippy experience, and me just was like, "Everyone hates me. No one likes me anymore. So why do I'm not, I'm not gonna try and be liked." It didn't last very long.
- 27:42 – 31:32
What would you say to your old self?
- JJJessie J
- SBSteven Bartlett
If you could go back and speak to Jessie that was going through that, that wasn't, that was staying in those hotel rooms and that was-
- JJJessie J
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... stumbling to put the petrol in her car and reacting to the media, what would y- what advice would you give her?
- JJJessie J
Bird's eye view, babes. (sighs) Just imag- the best piece of advice I was given from a therapist was perspective. Like, imagine the world, go above it, imagine yourself flying above it, and really look at what you're stressed about. Like, get outside, get some air. Just get outside, go to a park, like take a walk, you know? And, and also be honest to your friends and your family about how you're feeling and allow them to be there for you, 'cause I think everyone was kind of, everybody was kind of swelled up in... I mean, you've experienced it yourself recently going from being able to do whatever you do and no one knowing who you are, to then everyone knowing who you are and then everyone around you doesn't instantly go, "Are you okay?" They go, "This is great."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- JJJessie J
"Isn't it amazing?"
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Yeah.
- JJJessie J
"Aren't you having so much fun?" And you don't feel like you can go, "Actually, no."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- JJJessie J
"Some of it's great, but some of it's really weird, and I need you to hold my hand, and I'm a little scared, and now I don't know how to get on the train when I never used to think about that, and now I have to rethink about it," and I go, "Can I go on this Central line on a Saturday at peak time? No. So how do I get to where I need to go? 'Cause my status is way higher than my money, and I can't afford a driver. I w-" You know? And your m- and your mind is going, "Who do I talk to about this? Where do I g-" And that's, when I was 25, 26 and I shaved my head and I did all of that, I was just like, "What is happening and who do I tell that will understand?" You know? So yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Did you find anyone that understood?
- JJJessie J
Um, yeah. I think I had to learn that talking to my loved ones, I remember sending out a message to everybody going sa- saying, "Unless I am in danger or you don't think I've seen something that's really bad that's been put in the papers, I don't wanna see it."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Amen. Ugh, that's the worst.
- JJJessie J
I don't wanna see it. I don't want, don't send me a link-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Ugh.
- JJJessie J
... of me on the beach.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Ugh.
- JJJessie J
'Cause I was there. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
My friends and my family sending me links of people criticizing me, "Have you seen this?"
- JJJessie J
Yeah, my dad, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
"What a load of shit." I'm like-
- JJJessie J
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I said to my, my mom and dad and my brothers and sisters super early doors, I was like-
- JJJessie J
Yeah, "Don't, just don't tell me."
- SBSteven Bartlett
... "Don't read the comments section on the, on this website."
- JJJessie J
"Don't tell me."
- SBSteven Bartlett
"Don't send me the link. I'm not bothered. I'm not looking. If you wanna look..."
- JJJessie J
But also the, the thing that they need to be focused on, and this is what I had to say to my friends and family, stop focusing on...... what the other people are saying, focus on helping me be someone that can be within that. Like, it doesn't matter what fucking Donald from Manchester thinks about my outfit that I wore. What matters is that I still feel confident wearing those things after I've- I may or may not have been forced to read those comments. 'Cause that's the other thing, like fan bases will sometimes shove that in your face, going, "Can you believe this?" And it's like, I don't want to see it, I don't want to read it, and sometimes you're, like, they- you literally can't avoid it. So your closest friends and family, that was the biggest thing for me was making them understand, like, I need you to be there for Jess who's in the dressing room, not worrying about what the people think that are in the audience watching Jessie J. I need you to care about the girl backstage before I even step on the stage.
- 31:32 – 34:24
Not knowing who I was
- JJJessie J
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you're a performer and you're in the public eye-
- JJJessie J
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... you see it. You've got to create, basically, a brand, as you call it.
- JJJessie J
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You make distinctions between Jessica and Jessie and whatever, and they're really the same person, but ...
- JJJessie J
Yeah, man, the same person.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Is there a point in your life where you- your identity got too caught up in j- being Jessie J?
- JJJessie J
Yeah, for sure, when I wouldn't know what to wear. Like, I'd wear a cat suit and, like, my bob wig to, like, (laughs) like, a family barbecue.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JJJessie J
'Cause I just didn't know how to, like, tone it down. I was just on this hamster wheel of, like, do-do, do-do, like, do. And I just didn't know how to, like ... I didn't know who I was away from working, you know? So, like, one thing I realize now is that you are a product of your environment. You are a product of your environment, and I see that in my- my niece and my nephews, you know? Like, and all the young people I know, and I watch my best friends and my close family members have children, and I see how different their kids are because they- they are a reflection of their environment, you know? And the beauty that they can have if they're brought up in the middle of nowhere in the countryside, but then they're, like, not streetwise, and they kind of ... You know, and all these things, and so, like, when I look at, like, how I was in those pivotal moments of my life ... And I think this is why I have so much empathy for young ar- like, younger artists, and, like, I really care about how they're protected, um, and just young people in general. Like, protected from what the world is telling them they are as opposed to them discovering themselves. Like, I was a product of when I wake up, I'm working. Like, this is what you wear, this is what you do, this is how you act, this is what you say, and so, like, I didn't know how to switch off. Like, I would literally have to leave the house in a full face of makeup and, like, without ... It was weird. It was, like, a trippy ... I remember going on holiday with a couple of my girlfriends, and we were going for dinner, and, like, I was so stressed about what to wear and how to do my ... And it was so dumb. It's not even, like, important, but it was moments like that when I was just like, "God, I need to chill out. I'm not Jessie J right now," but I didn't know who I was. I literally had no clue, like, what my favorite color was or what food do I like to eat, 'cause I would just get given, "This is what we've got. This is what you've got time to eat." For so long it was so unhealthily fast. It was just, everything was so speeded up, and I was like, "What do I want to- what are my hobbies? What do I like to do other than just sing and travel?" I can travel to sing. "I don't know." And that's when I was like, "Okay, I need to take a second," and after that third album I took, like, four years, and disappeared.
- 34:24 – 38:25
Were record labels defining who you were?
- JJJessie J
- SBSteven Bartlett
In that time you've got record labels telling you, presumably, who you are, who they want you to be-
- JJJessie J
Not even.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- JJJessie J
You know what? There's one thing I- I will say about my record label. You know, for as much as we- you know, you always have your- y- your- your disagreements with anybody in power, and anybody you know that's- you work for or work with or work under or work next to, like ... But my record label have always supported me, um, to the best of their ability, and- and to the best that I understand. Like, the Rose album, the last album I put out was my favorite that I've ever put out. Was it the most successful? No. Was it the most authentic to who I was at the time? Yes. Did it have the biggest support from my label? No. Did that matter to me at the time? No, because I knew that the music was great. Yeah, it would've been great had they been more supportive, but it didn't, again, it didn't def- it didn't take away from the purpose of what that moment was for me personally. So no, they've been great. They've been amazing, and even now they're super supportive. That, like, first time I'm talking about it, that I had an album that was done, ready to go, and I listened to it a couple months ago and was like, "This ain't it." And then I went back in the studio three days ago to s- kinda start again. And maybe I'll use some of the old songs, maybe I won't. Maybe I'll rework 'em, but there just was something not- that wasn't right, and they're like, "We support you, we love you, we got you. We see you, we understand you." I've been with them for almost 15 years. What I've struggled to find is an internal team, like people that are immediately around me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Like an assistant, a manager, that kind of thing.
- JJJessie J
Manager, yeah. Managers. Assistant, no. Just a team. That's where I'm at right now. Like, you know, I just let go of my sixth manager two days ago. Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Number six.
- JJJessie J
No hard feelings, no ... Great, great people, amazing at what they do, just not right for me.And I know it's 'cause there's something I'm doing wrong, 'cause I keep picking the wrong people. So I know I need to look inwards and go, "What am I doing wrong here?" Is it 'cause I know I know what I want and I don't really say it, 'cause I don't like to cause waves in the ocean? Kinda like a smooth sailing moment, but I also know what I want and know what I deserve. And it's taking me a long time to be confident in saying, like, "I know I can really sing." But I've just never had a team that really get it. That, like, have the same passion as me and, like, live for, like, the moments and, like, taking risks and not being afraid, and, like... So, like, you know, and I'm- I- I- I guess maybe I'm talking about it right now 'cause, if someone that's meant to be for me in my life might see this... 'Cause, you know, like, I say all the time, like, people go, "What are you gonna do now? Like, have you got a new manager lined up?" And I'm like, "No." I didn't let them go because I've secretly been meeting people. Like, that's not who I am. Like, one thing for sure is I'm loyal and, like, I'm respectful, but, like, when your m- your manager is like a... it's almost like a marriage, you know? You go into a contract and you hand over a very big, important part of your life. You can't look for a new husband while you're still married. Doesn't work like that. And I have no idea who the, who the good managers are, no idea. And I don't know if I ever will. I'm 34, I've been doing this a long time, but I also know that I've got so much more to do, and I feel like I've barely scratched the surface. And I know in my heart, in my instinct... I don't just trust my instinct, I act on it. And it was a big, brave thing for me to do just to go, "Guys, I love you, but I know this ain't right. I'm moving on."
- 38:25 – 49:23
Finding the right team for you
- JJJessie J
- SBSteven Bartlett
What wasn't right about it, outside of the passion you were looking for? What, what is, what is it you're looking for from that team, that manager?
- JJJessie J
It's so funny, 'cause when someone goes, "What do you, what are you looking for in a manager?" For me, it's just a feeling. I just... Like, it's someone that... I'm such a hard worker, right? And I'm very disciplined. I'm very professional. I can handle a lot of stuff by myself. And I think that exposes a lot of people to do one of two things. Go, "She's good," or, "I need to work harder." And a lot of people go, "She's good." And I just want someone that can teach me about music, can send me performances from Aretha that I've not seen, or, "Hey, have you heard this new music?" Or, "Have you read this book?" Or, like, "You know what I was thinking would be amazing? If we did this." Like, "Okay, so you wanna do this, let's..." I need the drive, the passion. Like, people that I can relate to, like the way they see the world and feel the world, and, like... Like, I get told, and I'm so grateful, I get told all the time, "You're one of the best singers in the world." There's some singers down the street at church that are the best singers in the world that no one will ever hear other than the, than, than God and the people that are in the church. But that doesn't mean anything, like, if you're not doing anything with it, you know? And I, and, and... I just want a team of people that represent me even when I'm not in the room, you know?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Have you seen what you're looking for elsewhere? Do you know it exists?
- JJJessie J
I don't even know. I don't e- I don't know. I know I look at other artists and go, "I should be doing that. There's no reason that I shouldn't be there, or I shouldn't be doing this," or... I know that the music that I make... Like, I've, I've always said this metaphor with my career, right, is I feel like if my career was a shop, I feel like I sell ladders outside, but roses on the inside. So I feel like what I put out there isn't always what I actually s- sell, that isn't actually always me, that I feel like I'm convinced or... I'm, I'm, I'm i- I'm always a little afraid to be a diva or to come across like I'm arrogant or this, that, and the other, but, like, I know the best moments of my career, point blank, have been when I have followed my instincts, acted on my own heart. Like when I did the China TV show, everyone was like, "Why is she doing... Why, why do you wanna do a singing competition?" I said, "Just, I just know this is what I need to do." You know? Even the Rose album, like, I know that the people that discovered that were who needed to discover it. And I just know, like, the only thing in life that is important is to just, not trust your instincts, but to act on them, be yourself and not be afraid to know that, even if you're in a room full of people, that if you know that this is gonna work, just don't be disheartened by everyone else's projection of their own fear that they can't deliver for you.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I guess you'd also rather fail at being yourself than succeed at being someone else as well, right? So-
- JJJessie J
And I've succeeded at being someone else. One Hunny P. That's 100%.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, I was g- I was figuring out-
- JJJessie J
Um, One Hunny P, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I got that just before you told me. (laughs)
- JJJessie J
Like, yeah. (laughs) You're like, "Mm."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Is that One Hunny P? Yeah.
- JJJessie J
But, like, I love to write songs, right? And I can sing, so I go in the studio and I can make music, but sometimes I'm like, "I love this, I love these songs but I wouldn't buy this album. I wouldn't, I wouldn't put this on and listen to it." And I'm grateful that I know I've been accepted into so many different spaces in the industry, like the musical theater world, and, like, the pop world, the R&B world, the soul world. Like, I'm so... I love music, and I grew up around a lot of music. And I grew around a lot, up a lot around different cultures and races and walks of life, and I'm so, so happy that that was my foundation and that's what I am, and I also need management to represent that.... I don't want to walk into rooms that everyone looks the same. You know, I'm tired of it and I want to make music that makes everybody feel like they're, th- they're welcome, and make music that makes everyone feel accepted and seen and understood. And I need my team to reflect that. And I got to do a better job at making those decisions.
- SBSteven Bartlett
One of the reasons I ask is if you've seen it somewhere else.
- JJJessie J
No.
- SBSteven Bartlett
If you've ... Beca- it's because when you're a obsessed person, when you're obsessed about your craft-
- JJJessie J
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Um, I think we all, and I'm speaking from my own e- experience here, we all struggle when we don't feel like other people are meeting us there.
- JJJessie J
Oh, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You know what I mean? And I see this with founders specifically in companies where they're r- they're just absolutely obsessed and all in on their dream, and then they look at their team who aren't at that standard, don't seem to care as much, aren't as-
- JJJessie J
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... aren't sending the Aretha tracks at 2:00 AM in the morning.
- JJJessie J
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Aren't going above and beyond and they're thinking, "Well, y- you must not be right, you must not care, you must not want to be here." Um, so there's a certain expectation management, you know?
- JJJessie J
No, for sure, 100%. And it's not that I'm saying, um, I expect them to be me. I think it's just people that even want to talk about music.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JJJessie J
You know?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- JJJessie J
Like a lot of managers, like, when was the last time they went to see a show? Like, at the end of the day, to me, the, when you're a musician and you're in the industry, I need a team of managers that are like in, they're at the party. They're not trying to get me an invite. They have to be there and like coming ... You know what I mean?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah.
- 49:23 – 57:11
Why did you disappear?
- JJJessie J
- SBSteven Bartlett
Those four years that you referenced, that you, I don't know how to describe it.
- JJJessie J
Disappeared.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Disappeared, let's say.
- JJJessie J
Not disappeared-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- JJJessie J
... but like I worked, but I wasn't like-
- SBSteven Bartlett
What was going on when you disappeared?
- JJJessie J
Oh my God, what was going on? I did The Voice 'cause I wanted to kinda stay in the, in the vibe. I did the China show.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- JJJessie J
The China TV show, which was one of my favorite things I've ever done.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Billions watching.
- JJJessie J
1.2 billion people watched the final. And I bit my tongue before I went out in Sam Witney's 'cause I was so stressed, and there was just blood in my mouth.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) At least you didn't shit yourself.
- JJJessie J
Um, um, oh, trust me, I'll ... Very close to ... I have shit myself on stage before.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I know. That's why I'm saying. (laughs)
- JJJessie J
And so bad. So bad. So bad.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Fingers and ears. I had a few words to say about one of my sponsors on this podcast. My girlfriend came upstairs yesterday when I was having a shower, and she said to me that she tried the Huel protein shake, which lives on my fridge over there, and she said it's amazing. Low calories, you get your 20 odd grams of protein, you get your 26 vitamins and minerals, and it's nutritionally complete. In the protein space, there's lots of things, but it's hard to find something that is nice, especially when consumed just with water, and that is nutritionally complete, and that has about 100 gr- calories in total, while also giving you your 20 grams of protein. If you haven't tried the Huel protein product, do give it a try. The salted caramel one, if you put some ice cubes in it, and you put it in a blender, and you try it, is as good as pretty much any milkshake on the market, just mixed with water. It's been a game changer for me because I'm trying to drop my calorie intake, and I'm trying to be a little bit more healthy with my diet. So this is where Huel fits in my life. Thank you, Huel, for making a product that I actually like. The salted caramel is my favorite. I've got the banana one here, which is the one my girlfriend likes, but for me, salted caramel is the one. Is there a pressure in that four years where people are saying, "Why isn't she giving us an album?" You know, what's happened-
- JJJessie J
Oh yeah, there's always pressure.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- JJJessie J
Yeah. And I, it took me a long time to realize that I can't ... You can't squeeze from the lemons. You gotta nurture the roots a little bit. You know what I mean? You can't just keep asking the lemons to grow, and there's no d- it's not been potted in the ground. And I just needed to be regrounded. I just was like... I wrote the hert- whole first album. Second album, I wrote pretty much the whole thing bar a couple songs. The third album, I wrote two songs. And when you listen to it, I wrote two acoustic songs, Getaway and You Don't Really Know Me. And everything else was Burning Up, Bang Bang. Didn't write any of them. Loved them, but it wasn't where I was, and I was exhausted, and I was like, "Just, I will sing whatever you want." And I was so grateful for the success of Masterpiece, Burning Up, Bang Bang in the U.S., but it was nowhere near where I was mentally. And trying to match those two things was my m- probably my most important thing that I could've done. So when that album ended, and then obviously I went for the fir- my first kind of big, just my first big breakup. It wasn't even that it was public. It was just like my first big breakup that people knew about. Um, lost both my grandparents. I remember when I, I lost my grandad, I had to perform in Central Park right after, and I was really close with my grandad. He was a professional jazz drummer, traveled the world. We had the same heart problem. Just, you know, just very much he understood the industry and would always kind of give me advice. And just not being able to grieve, and like all of those things, and was just kinda going, "I need to take a second to like process my life." Like, I haven't stopped since everything took off. Um, and then I went for a moment where I was like, "I'm done with music. I'm out."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- JJJessie J
Oh yeah. Sat with my label, was like, "Drop me. Don't want to do this anymore." I can't do it. I'm emotionally exhausted. Didn't know how to just, I just didn't know how to write songs anymore. I was just like, "What do I even wanna sing about?"
- SBSteven Bartlett
When was this?
- JJJessie J
2016.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So after you lost your grandparents and-
- JJJessie J
Yeah. 2016. And then, I'm, and then I had to do this campaign 'cause I needed money, honestly. Like, I was like, "I need to still make money to be famous." Like, you gotta still be protected, and I have to like wean myself off of this lifestyle if I'm gonna not do this anymore. And I got offered to do a campaign with, uh, Makeup Forever, which I've always wanted to do anyway 'cause I d- I love the brand. And I s- and, and I said, "I'd love to do it." And they're like, "We want an original song." And I was like, "I don't wanna do an original song 'cause if I do an original song, people think I'm bringing an album, and it's a single, and da la la." And I was like, "I'll do a cover." So I met this guy called Camper, and we was in the studio, and he was like, "Yo, man, like I got some tracks." And I was like, "No tracks. Don't play me anything. I don't wanna, I don't wanna do this no more." He's like, "Come on. Let me just play you something." And I was like, "No, no, no. I'm good. Seriously, please don't." I was like, "Auntie, I just need to do this, get the check, go home. Don't make me emotional. Don't ... You know it's there. (laughs) Don't pull out that part of me. Like, I don't wanna ..." I was trying to pretend that I was something different to who I was. And he played me this beat, and he was like, "I'm gonna go smoke. I'll be back in five minutes." And I was literally, and I was just sitting there, and he played me this, this track. And I was like sitting there, and the engineer was just like ... And I'm like, I'm in the, behind the engineer, and I just start typing on my laptop. And the engineer's like, "Do you want me to turn this off, or ... " And I was like, "No, no, no, it's all right. Keep it on." And I'm like, "Can I just jump in the booth real quick?"
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JJJessie J
And I wrote this song called Think About That, which became the first single off The Rose album.... and I remember Camper coming in, going, "I don't know who you think you are, but you can't stop writing songs. Like, this is what you do." And I think I'd realized that really up until that point, a lot of my successful music had been this kind of like, (singing) "Everything's great. Doesn't mean anything." (normal singing) And I was like, "That's what people want, and I don't know how to deliver that all the time," when I can deliver it, and I do write songs like that now because I'm not ignoring the pain. So I'm writing about both, so they get both as opposed to me ignoring all the good ... Like, ignore all the bad stuff so that manifests into everything, and then that's all I want to write about. You know? And so I just started to write, and then I wrote Queen, and then I wrote Someone's Lady on the spot, and then I wrote this, and I wrote that, and I kind of had this album. And I was like, "What do I do now? Uh, okay." You know? And when I went on that tour, I fired my managers during that tour, just firing managers left, right, and center. That's just been ... become a hobby of mine. Um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Can you imagine how insecure the seventh manager's going to be? (laughs) .
- 57:11 – 1:00:16
How did the pandemic impact you?
- JJJessie J
- SBSteven Bartlett
What do I need? What do I want? That's one of the, uh, two of the questions that I think a lot of people managed to get clarity on during-
- JJJessie J
Terms of par- par- Yeah, moments of turmoil.
- SBSteven Bartlett
The pandemic?
- JJJessie J
Yeah, exactly.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What was that to you, that whole two years?
- JJJessie J
Ooh. The pandemic was, uh, probably the worst and most beautiful thing that I think's happened to the world because when else would we all have to stop? And not just stop and be like, "Oh, I'm gonna keep going to work and like, you know, just really take the weekend off," like, stop. Like, not have our clutches of our hobbies, not have our clutches of our friends and family that we may see or visit or talk to, but really go inwards and have no escape from it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
If I was a fly on the wall in your ... wherever you were living during the pandemic, what would I have observed?
- JJJessie J
I mellowed a lot in the, in the pandemic. I let go of a lot of things that I held onto as, like, clutches to kind of be able to do my job. Like, I'm a very organized person, and, um, I realized how much time I wasted on things that really didn't help me, like having certain amount of this or being overly prepared. I'm a very overly prepared person. Um, I cooked a lot, and I wrote an album that's really good, but I just don't know if I really love it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why?
- JJJessie J
I don't know who the audience is. When I listen to the songs, I don't see the people that are listening to it with me, and I have to be able to see that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How did that happen? If you write something, I'm guessing usually you write it from a place of your own pain or whatever.
- JJJessie J
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So there's gonna be people out there feeling the same human experience.
- JJJessie J
Mm-hmm. Music reflects where you're at, right? Or it should. And in that time, I think it was a very anxious, uh ... Everyone kind of wanting to, like, falsify this, like, "We're good, right? We're okay. Like, we're okay, we're good, we're gonna be fine." And like, you can feel that in the music. It just feels a bit, like, too much. And I think that what I think people are craving more than ever right now is just, like, real. Like, and I also know what I'm good at, and I listen to it and go, "There's, like, about s- five or six artists that I could imagine doing this. I want to make music people only know that I can do," and it ain't that. So ... And it might be that. I might come full circle and go, "You know what? I was wrong. (laughs) Joke. (laughs) Took three years, but we're here." But I'll get there. You know, there's no right or wrong answers. I don't believe that anything we do in life is wrong or right. I just think we've got to want to make a decision, and then we'll learn from either which way we went.
- 1:00:16 – 1:07:56
Jamal Edwards' passing
- JJJessie J
- SBSteven Bartlett
Has your grief over the last year impacted your perspective on that piece of work?
- JJJessie J
Yes. Yeah. I feel like my grief is here right now. Like, it just comes up, and it comes out my eyes or it comes out my, my, m- in my songs. But it, it, it feels like it, um ... has a place to, has a place to live in my life now, which is why I probably feel so vulnerable at the moment because, as I said to you, like ...... losing, uh, having a miscarriage and losing a baby, and then most recently losing Jamal Edwards. (exhales sharply) When you don't just have one person that you associate with grief, but you have a handful of people that you realize that no one else that you have in your life give y- like, gives you what they gave you, and you realize that you have to find that for yourself, like, that's the, the hardest part of grieving he that I'm experiencing right now. Um, like I don't even... It's, like, even me crying like this, like, 'cause I can't stop it. Like, they're not tears where I'm like... You know when you can't not cry? Like, I'm not even trying to cry. It's just, like, it's here and it just comes up. Um, it puts everything in perspective that all the things that we worry about and all the things that we are concerned about, nothing matters if someone just loses the... Like, when you watch someone... I don't know if you knew Jamal. Oh, you did?
- SBSteven Bartlett
His parents called me yesterday.
- JJJessie J
Oh, I love Brenda. Um.
- SBSteven Bartlett
He was, um... I'd spoken to him, um, a few months, uh, a few weeks before he had passed-
- JJJessie J
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... and we were-
- JJJessie J
Yeah, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But he was... When I was 18, and I've, this has been to the top of my Twitter, he was my, my, the evidence that I could be successful.
- JJJessie J
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So I'd stalk him around Skype-
- JJJessie J
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... when he was on Skype-
- JJJessie J
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
... and I'd try and get him to speak to me.
- JJJessie J
Yeah. It's, it's crazy how much time he made for everyone. I can't... He was, like, so special. Like, you know, and when someone passes, you always want to remind everybody of, like, the good that they were, but he was, like, in another league of... I can't explain it. Like, when I was standing, you know, at, at, his, at his funeral and just looking around and the impact that he made, so one-on-one with everyone he knew, because he never said no. He always had the time. And I know how much he wanted to live life, you know? And how unfair it feels that of all people that that could have happened to, that it happened to him. I know that his passing has enabled me to make the decisions that I'm making in my life right now and my career with more strength and belief in myself. Like, Jamal was someone that I spoke to when I didn't want to do this anymore, when I didn't feel like, you know, being told that you're a great singer was enough. (laughs) Like, it often wasn't. You know? And I would phone him and he would just remind me of... I mean, I met him when I was 17. Just remind me of the bigger picture. And just his energy and the fact that he talked himself into every room and then talked about everyone else, you know, I just... You felt his, you felt his power when the world found out he had gone. Everybody was sad, even people that didn't know him, because his legacy, that's been a word that's been used a lot with him, is funny because the biggest legacy that I think he, however many businesses he started and things he invested in and platforms he created to, to elevate everyone else, it was the feeling that he gave people. To me, that was his legacy. And, like, that's what I miss the most. And I s- when I, I sang at his, um, homecoming and everyone was like, "How did you do that?" I said, "Because I was singing to him. I was singing for him." It wasn't a performance, you know? I know that he would have loved that. I coulda just he- I just hear him going, "Geez." You know?
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JJJessie J
Like, "Come on. Are you wearing vegan shoes and that?" Um, but I think that the biggest thing that you learn when you lose someone so young that you love and admire so much is that life is too short to sit anywhere other than where you're supposed to be. And if you're sitting at a table where you don't feel like you're being fed, even if you're bringing a plate of food, you politely just leave. You know? And I, and I, and I know that he has inspired me to demand more from myself and from other people, um, in my career. You know, me and him had so many plans and projects that we were doing together, as I'm sure you guys were probably supposed to connect in some way. And I know that whatever I was supposed to receive from him-... for those things, I have to find them in myself. (crying) . So, 'cause no one will ever be that. So, sorry, I'm so crying right now, like, I'm such an emotional person, and I really live from feeling. And I'm not afraid anymore to be vulnerable (sniffs) and I think that the first- first line of change of anything f- through grief or anything like that, is talking about how you feel. And I think that I'm now, in the next few months, aware that I'm gonna then start actioning the change that I'm speaking about within myself, the energy around me, what I want my career to look like, what I want my music to feel like, what I want the people to be around me to feel like, you know? I love to work hard, but I also like people around me to have a life.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- 1:07:56 – 1:20:38
Your miscarriage
- SBSteven Bartlett
I was, uh, when you, you know, when I was rereading through the- the process you went through with, um-
- JJJessie J
(clears throat)
- SBSteven Bartlett
... with your miscarriage-
- JJJessie J
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... you posted about it very soon after, and you talked about-
- JJJessie J
Yeah, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... how, and then you deleted the post, right? Or you archived it or something?
- JJJessie J
Archived it, yeah. (laughs) In a moment of being human, I was just like, y- you know what it was? It was a moment where I actually had it up, and I wasn't in a space to keep posting, but I was tired of going back to my page and that being the thing that people saw. 'Cause I wasn't in that space, but I wasn't in a, "Hi guys, I'm gonna sing you a song" space or a, like, a r- a random caption and a picture of me just in and out, you know?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- JJJessie J
So I just was like, "I'm not as sad as that, but I'm not anywhere near, say, the few posts before it yet. So let me just archive it and just kind of go back to zero."
- SBSteven Bartlett
I just can't imagine as a c- you know, I've had people who've sat here and talked to me about miscarriages and- and the- the experience, especially the- the attempt in a family to try and create life and struggling and-
- JJJessie J
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... you know, so seeing that so closely and the experience you- you shared and the way you shared it-
- JJJessie J
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... and even listening to you talk about going and having, you know, you had a suspicion that something was wrong-
- JJJessie J
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... and ...
- JJJessie J
Yeah, no, I had two scans in the same day and within the first scan and the second scan, the baby had passed. And it was- it was such a, I mean, the whole experience was so spiritual for me, because obviously I'd been told it wasn't gonna be easy for me to get, um, to have children. And realistically, like, I still discovering that now, I think that any woman can- can say that the amount of women that are told that and then they have children. You know, and a lot of it's mental, you know, and where our bodies are at. And obviously when I was going through all that pain and discomfort was when my life was in complete, utter chaos with my career and my diet, and everything, you know? Like, your mind, your body's so powerful and as I've gotten older and my life is- I've kind of tranquili- like been able to find tranquility in the chaos and, you know, like, just my pain is so much better, and I'm not on any medication anymore and, you know? So when I fell pregnant, it wasn't, I know that, I know that getting pregnant I don't think would be the issue for me. It would be staying pregnant. And so when I fell pregnant, I was so overwhelmed with like, your whole life just kind of instantly changes. You feel like you're carrying the most precious cargo, even though it's the size of like a bean sprout. You're literally just like (laughs) and it's a secret, but it's, you d- and I'm such an open person, and it was such a new experience for me to go through something that so many people could relate to.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- JJJessie J
Um, but not want to tell anyone. But want to tell everybody, but know I shouldn't just in case, but then it's like, but it's also something that so many people have gone through, so it wasn't like a p- you know, and I was just like, "What do I do?" And then when I booked these shows, obviously I'd booked them, I think I'd booked them before I even knew. And then, when I decided to do that first show, I remember the day before I found out the baby had passed, I was with a friend of mine and I was like, "How am I gonna do this show and not tell everybody?"
- SBSteven Bartlett
Tell everyone you're pregnant?
- JJJessie J
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And announce it, right?
- JJJessie J
Yeah, and just say like, 'cause I was like, so sick. You know, I was like, "H- people are gonna know." You know? It- it's, ugh, so I just- I just remember g- kind of landing in LA and I was by myself, you know? I live in LA by myself. And I have friends and I d- I don't have any family here, but like, I have my team, um, well I- I did have my team. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Before you fired everybody.
- JJJessie J
So sad, until I fired everybody. No, it sounds so savage. It's not.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JJJessie J
It's- it's so amicable and everything's fine. Um, but no, I mean, I do have a lot of team, you know? A lot of them are in the UK still and I do have people here in my, but like, I have friends here and- and I remember I got here and I was very sick and I was just like, "Right, I'm gonna start working out and eating good and like getting on a routine," and like I have my house, and I'm in the sun and, and then I woke up one morning and I was like, "Ah, I don't feel right." I still had n- very intense nausea. I just knew something- something wasn't the same. And I called, uh, a doctor 'cause I hadn't actually discovered who I was gonna have as my doctor yet, 'cause it was still quite early. And I'd gone to see my doctor in London 'cause I was there when I found out. And I f- and I went to the doctor's and that dreadful silence when you first have a scan and they kind of don't say anything, and I was like, "Just tell me the truth. What's going on?" And she said, "Your baby's heartbeat is very low," um, "and there's this like ring." And- and I was like, "Well, what does that mean?" And she said, "It often means that the baby will have some sort of disability or deformity." And I said-Okay. And she said, "You know, we can have you go and take blood in a couple, i- today and then in a couple of days and just to see if your, your, your hormone levels are moving, to see if the baby's still growing. But the baby's heartbeat is very weak." And I was like, "But it's still there?" And she's like, "Yeah, it's still there." And that's when I went onto the street and I cried and a man came up to me and said, you know, "If, this is happening because you're supposed to talk about this. You're supposed to help other people." And instead of going to get bloods, I got in my car and I said, "I'm gonna go and get a second opinion." I didn't go and get the bloods, ever. And I phoned around to some friends and no one was available, everyone was at work and I ended up being able to go in to see another doctor very quickly and he only had about 10 minutes before he had to go in to a surgery. And so I went in very quickly and he did another scan and he said, "I'm really sorry. There's no heartbeat." Like, it's, but that was about, within about three, four hours of the first one. And I remember going into the car park and getting in the car and one of the first people I spoke to was someone on my team, you know, and obviously, you know, they were supportive and understanding, but one of the first things I was asked was, "Well, what do you want to do about the show tomorrow?" And even though I understood, I understood it, you know, I didn't... At the time I don't think I realized that that actually really shifted the way I processed the experience. You know, I got home and I kind of was focused on, "How am I gonna get through tomorrow's show?" more than, "H- w- what is happening?" Like, I'm now... Sorry if you can hear my stomach, I'm really hungry. Um. It's like rrrrrrrr. I need this. No, um (laughs) I, um, I remember just going home and kind of not processing it and I had a friend come over and, and then the next day I went straight in to glam, I did the soundcheck, and I got on stage and I, I, and I posted that post. I was by myself, I had no one advising me. My mum, my sister wasn't there to go, "No. Don't share this with the world. Like, make it real for you first." And I posted it because I didn't have anyone there to break on. I didn't have anyone to... Hold on, I'm f- flipping crying again. I didn't have anyone to just fall apart on and just... And that's what I needed. That's what I wanted, you know? And so I did the show. The saddest point of that whole experience for me, other than the, it, the painful part of it, which I'm, I, it's, it breaks my heart that so many women have gone through it. Even women I know that I didn't know and I hated that I didn't understand and I couldn't support them in the way they needed me to because I didn't know. It's such a painful, physical painful, emotional painful experience that you almost don't want to talk about it because you need people to just to see it, to know. But it's such a wi- it's such a, it, it's such a trip, you know? And obviously everyone's experience is different 'cause, you know, the way the baby passes or it's all different for everybody. And so I remember the hardest part for me was, wasn't doing the show. The show was actually kind of a weird trippy dream and I was actually just really grateful that I wasn't by myself and that loads of people that I love turned up and came and, you know, were at the show. It was when I got in the car after the show, you know, by myself, and I got home and I opened my front door, and I closed the door and I fell to my knees. And that was the worst moment of the whole experience, was me realizing that... other than my career, being a mother and having a child has been the biggest excitement of my life. Like, I've always been super maternal, I love children. Like, it's just always been something that I can't even explain. People go like, you know, "Do you want to be a mum?" It's just something that I think that you're, you gravitate towards or you kind of learn to gravitate, to gravitate towards but I felt like I'd been given everything I've ever wanted and then someone had gone, "But you can't have it." But it was still there, you know? I was still... And I would sing to it every night and, you know, and so when I got home that night and I laid there I've never felt so lonely in my life. And the empath in me was like, "How have so many people experienced this?" Like, it's just, and more than once, like, numerous times and I just remember laying there knowing that it was still there but it wasn't there. You know, and that went on for like, 'cause, you know, it was a long time, it was over a week that I had to then go and do it a non-natural way. Um, and it just, y- you know, it was just the saddest thing but at the same time (laughs) I knew that the reason it happened was because I wasn't supposed to do it alone. And I stand by that now. I knew as soon as I, I found out that the baby had gone, I phoned my mum and I said, "I know that I'm not supposed to do this by myself." Like, "I know that I'm supposed to find someone that wants this as much as I do." And it's such a, honestly I, it's, it's, it's a weird one to talk about 'cause it's such a head trip because it's, you're grieving not so much, even so much the, the, the baby, whatever, whatever time you lose a baby, you know. I, I can't even imagine, like-... women having stillborns, and I just can't even fathom that. And I, it, you're, you're grieving the life that you imagined, like that you prepared in your mind as well. Um, it's almost a bit like, you know, when you're really, this is a really stupid metaphor, but when you're really excited for a holiday-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- JJJessie J
... and then it gets canceled, and you kind of go, "Yeah, it's okay. I don't mind." But inside you're like, "I just bought all these outfits, and I got this and I've got that." It was like that times a million. And, but I always will look for the silver lining in every, any moment of pain and sadness. Um, and I'm grateful that I got to experience being pregnant, and I'm grateful that I got to experience that my body can do it. Not, like not even everyone's can do it, you know? And it's honestly brought me to some of the happiest moments that I've felt, um, because it's enable, it, it's literally given, it's opened the door for me to love myself deeper. So I'm still processing the whole thing, and I still have moments of in- intense sadness and grief. But I also have moments of excitement knowing that I won't do it alone.
- 1:20:38 – 1:31:48
Your bodyguard's passing
- JJJessie J
- SBSteven Bartlett
The other thing that I, when w- when I sent you that voice note-
- JJJessie J
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... I think it was around the time when you'd done a big post about Dave.
- JJJessie J
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And that was, so you can imagine-
- JJJessie J
You're really bringing out the big guns today, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
The, uh-
- JJJessie J
'Cause we're really gonna talk about some stuff.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Well this is, this is the perspec- I was looking from, from the outside in-
Episode duration: 1:49:26
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