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The Diary of a CEOThe Diary of a CEO

Jimmy Fallon on the SNL obsession behind his early breakdown

How obsession with SNL drove auditions and money-thin years in LA; hate, rejection, and grieving his mother reshaped how he hears the noise.

Jimmy FallonguestSteven Bartletthost
Jun 2, 20251h 39mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:07

    Intro

    1. JF

      I was just breaking down mentally of like, "What have I done?" I have- I don't know what else to do with my life. And I think I wrote a letter to my best friend like, "I'm losing it, dude."

    2. SB

      What did it say?

    3. JF

      It's a deep one. Jesus.

    4. NA

      Jimmy Fallon! (upbeat music)

    5. SB

      Jimmy, I was reading through your business portfolio and it's extremely extensive. You found a production company, a ride, shoes, you got the ice cream, The Tonight Dough.

    6. JF

      (laughs)

    7. SB

      But the through line here is about making people happy.

    8. JF

      I've always wanted to please people since I was a kid.

    9. SB

      And in your eighth grade class, you were voted most likely to replace David Letterman on the late night show.

    10. JF

      Isn't that crazy? Because I ended up doing that.

    11. SB

      Well, it does feel like you pulled that into existence somehow.

    12. JF

      Well, I was beyond obsessed. I wanted to be on Saturday Night Live, so I worked at the Improv where I think the paycheck was $7.25. You didn't really eat much. Like, I would turn cardboard boxes on the street into tables. It's tough, it's a lot of rejection, but the stage time was priceless.

    13. SB

      And eventually you get a phone call?

    14. JF

      I got an audition for Saturday Night Live. This was my big opportunity. I remember going on stage, did my first impression, and I blew it. That was probably my lowest moment. It was very depressing.

    15. SB

      You'd said that if you didn't make it on SNL before the age of 25...

    16. JF

      I was gonna kill myself.

    17. SB

      Did you mean that?

    18. JF

      Yeah. But I just knew that I would be on Saturday Night Live. It was going to happen. And against all odds, I did it.

    19. SB

      How old were you?

    20. JF

      23.

    21. SB

      So crazy. Jimmy, I found some photos. Can you tell me about this one?

    22. JF

      Oh my god. Uh, wow.

    23. SB

      This has always blown my mind a little bit. 53% of you that listen to this show regularly haven't yet subscribed to the show. So could I ask you for a favor before we start? If you like the show and you like what we do here and you wanna support us, the free simple way that you can do just that is by hitting the subscribe button. And my commitment to you is, if you do that, then I'll do everything in my power, me and my team, to make sure that this show is better for you every single week. We'll listen to your feedback, we'll find the guests that you want me to speak to, and we'll continue to do what we do. Thank you so much.

  2. 2:07 – 3:20

    What Made Jimmy the Way He Is Nowadays

    1. SB

      (upbeat music) Jimmy, what do I need to know about you to understand the man that you are? And when I ask that question, I'm specifically trying to understand your earliest context. Because you're, in many respects, an anomaly, but you're an anomaly that was very, very clear on where you wanted to go in your life from a shockingly young age. So I'm wondering what gave you such clarity and what the context was that made- made you the unique way that you are?

    2. JF

      Gosh, that's a great question. That's gonna be the whole s- (laughs) that's gonna be the whole show right here.

    3. SB

      (laughs)

    4. JF

      Because I wanna find out.

    5. SB

      (laughs)

    6. JF

      Uh, I, you know, maybe, uh, um, entertaining or being funny is probably, or wanting to satisfy people. I think, you know, and- and wanting to please people. I've always wanted to please people since I was a kid. Like, I don't know if it was my parents or my grandparents or ... I wanted to make people feel good and- and g- and give everyone... Or if I'm at a party, I wanna make sure it's the- I'm- i- it's the best party, you know, and I'm giving everything. I wanna make sure it's... So it's pleasing or appeasing, one of those words, but I think I've always wanted to do that, and that's kind of what I do now.

  3. 3:20 – 4:36

    The Earliest Memory of Jimmy Wanting to Please Others

    1. SB

      Do you have like an earliest memory of that behavior?

    2. JF

      I think wanting to do good in like, uh, I- I don't know, uh, at- at, uh, sports maybe or, you know, in grade school or- or... I- I remember I was an altar boy, you know, so I- I was, uh... At one point, at one point in my life, I wanted to be a priest.

    3. SB

      (laughs) Really?

    4. JF

      Yeah, which I thought, "I think I'd be a pretty good priest. I think it'd be funny and, you know-"

    5. SB

      (laughs)

    6. JF

      "... the guy... I could have good delivery," you know? Someone said to me once, they said, "Maybe you got your first taste of, uh, wanting to be an entertainer from being an altar boy," because you're up on stage kind of-

    7. SB

      Yeah, yeah.

    8. JF

      ... technically.

    9. SB

      Yeah.

    10. JF

      And there's an audience.

    11. SB

      Yeah.

    12. JF

      And you're up kind of performing. I mean, walking around and you're wearing an outfit kind of, you know, wearing-

    13. SB

      Yeah.

    14. JF

      ... costume. And he does this kind of theater in a weird way, but I remember just kind of wanting to do good for like, be like, make my parents proud or my grandparents proud or... There was a kind of... I mean, it all happened so fast that I don't- I don't- I don't have problems with it or- or go back to it and go like, "Oh, that was traumatic." You know, I just think that I was always like a people pleaser.

  4. 4:36 – 7:17

    Jimmy's Parents

    1. SB

      Your parents were very strict.

    2. JF

      Yeah, very Catholic, very strict. No cursing, no sex, you know, very Catholic, you know, no s- uh, no dirty words, no... My- I would listen to comedy albums, you know, and my dad would take a key and scratch the curse words out of the record.

    3. SB

      (laughs)

    4. JF

      He would find where the dirty word was and stop and then scratch it out of the record so I wouldn't hear it. So I would hear Rodney Dangerfield and it would skip to the end of the joke and he was like, "Well, I'll tell you..." And then cut to people clapping and laughing.

    5. SB

      (laughs)

    6. JF

      I go, "Well, I don't even know what the joke was." I mean, he kind of ruined it. I go, "Why are they laughing?" But I didn't quite... But he would... My dad would tape music videos, you know. Uh, we'd have these shows in America, you know, called like USA Night Flight or Friday Night Videos and they- he taped these music videos. He would watch them on Saturdays and go tape to tape of what videos we could see that wasn't offensive at all or sexually inappropriate or something too advanced for us or something.

    7. SB

      What was he like as a man?

    8. JF

      Funny, life of the party, hardworking, very Brooklyn, very New York. He sang in a doo-wop group-

    9. SB

      (laughs)

    10. JF

      ... uh, on the street corner. So he would go, you know, not professionally, but just that was one of the things he did in high school. And then he also fought in gangs, like, uh, not... Just beat each other up gangs. Like, I don't think anyone killed each other, but this was back in the '50s where they just...... one gu- street corner would fight another street corner.

    11. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    12. JF

      And they'd get together and just have a fist fight or something.

    13. NA

      Tough guy?

    14. JF

      He was a tough guy, yeah. He was def-

    15. NA

      Emotional?

    16. JF

      No, not emotional. Um, I've never seen my dad cry or any of that stuff.

    17. NA

      Affectionate?

    18. JF

      Yeah. I mean, I got l- I- love yous and hugs, and stuff like that, yeah. I mean, not overly. Not the way I think I am. I'm, I'm hugging my kids every single day and telling them how proud I am of them and saying, "I love you," and they say, "I love you back." And, you know, I- I'm, I'm overly, you know, where I didn't have that, you know? I, I think it was just ... My mom was more that, and I think that was kind of put on my mom as, "You're the emotional," you know, uh, uh, "You hug the kids and love them." And he was just more like, "Yep, I, I love you," you know? "That's great." He was rooting for me always, you know? The ... But, you know, a l- little harsh, but n- not, not crazy harsh. Like, we ... You know? Yeah. N- nothing, n- nothing that crazy.

    19. NA

      Gloria,

  5. 7:17 – 12:45

    Jimmy's Mother

    1. NA

      your mother.

    2. JF

      Yeah. Gloria's my mom, yeah. Uh, sadly passed away. Uh, I miss my mom. My mom's name is Gloria, my sister's name is, is Gloria. My dad's name is Jim and I'm named Jim.

    3. NA

      (laughs)

    4. JF

      I have very unoriginal parents. (laughs)

    5. NA

      Yeah. (laughs)

    6. JF

      C- c- couldn't come up with, uh, any other name? Like, tho- those are the perfect names for you? But yeah, my mom was my ... She rooted for me. That was my number one fan. I was the golden child in her head, you know? Like, whatever I did, she was like, "That's, that's my kid. That's my ... (snaps fingers) Oh, my God. You're fantastic. You gotta go ... Uh, d- you're great." You know? And she was always rooting me on. Whatever it is I did, she would laugh, you know? And, uh, I- I- I miss her not being around, you know, just 'cause I would talk to her e- every day, you know? Sometimes multiple times a day and, you know, talk about Saturday Night Live and she'd watch the show and she ... Sketches that I was fun ... I mean, I would ... She was part of my life, and I think part of what built my confidence.

    7. NA

      Even as an adult?

    8. JF

      Yeah, completely.

    9. NA

      You talked to her ad- almost daily as an adult?

    10. JF

      Yeah. I would call her and just go like, "What's going on?" You know, she loved to talk. That was her ... She was great at that. She had one of those phones that had the phone cords that were so stretched out from walking all around the house and talking all day that the phone cord probably was two miles long. I mean, it's like ... (laughs) It was a pile of spaghetti on the floor. I'm like, it's so ... I go, "Gosh, you should get a cordless phone. You won't even believe how your life changes. You can go anywhere, mom." Uh, but she loved to walk around and talk, so she could talk all day long. But then she would call me and say like, "I saw you on TV," or, you know, if she saw m- ... I go, "I know mom, I'm on that show."

    11. NA

      (laughs)

    12. JF

      And she was like, "You're on Ellen today." I go, "I know, mom. I ... I- I was there. I was ... Uh, that was me. I was on it," you know? But she was my number one fan, and loved the, uh, bits that I would do and she was one of the most interesting people ever and like, they ... You know, both of them together are kind of cartoon characters, you know? And by the end, you know, they both kind of would ... Couldn't really hear each other, you know? It was a lot of like, "What?" And my dad would go, "Huh?" He'd go, "I said, 'What?'" "Huh?" "What?" "Huh?" And they'd just say, "What?" and "Huh?" until I interrupt and go, "Stop. Just stop talking, because let's just move on. You can't hear each other. This is, uh, insane." But I wish I can give you the best, uh, story of kind of what my mom was like. I mean, I remember going home to the house where I grew up in Saugerties, New York, after I was on Saturday Night Live and ... Or, maybe even during. And I came home and mom's like, "Let's go out to dinner." And I go, "Okay." I go, "But j- I, I don't really need to. I mean, we live in Manhattan. There's some of the best restaurants. I, I come home because I want home-cooked, you know, meals, you know?" But, but, I was ... I go, "Ugh, I'll ... Sure." I go, I go, "But just don't make a big deal. Don't embarrass me." She's like, "I'm not gonna embarrass you, I'm not." I go, "Okay, let's go." So we go out to this restaurant and we sit in and we sit down and sh- she goes, "I'm kinda getting a draft." And I go, "No, no, no. We're not moving. We're not making any big deal. Remember, that's the deal. We're just not making a scene, we're having dinner, like you said. We're gonna go out." "Okay, fine." So we're sitting there and she goes, "Let's order." I go, "Yeah, great." And she goes, "I'll have this," my dad's like, "I'll have a steak," and I go ... And she goes, "I'll have the lamb chops or something." I go, "Great." So we're waiting and they come over with my dad and my meal, but they forget my mom's meal. They go, "You know, we didn't put in the, uh, lamb." She's like, "Okay." So we can't really ... So she, so she goes, she goes, "Thank you," as they leave. She goes, "I'm not gonna eat." I go, "Well, you can't do that, 'cause you're gonna make a scene. You have to eat the food." She goes, "No, I'm just ... I'm fine. I don't care." I go, "Please don't make a big deal." She goes, "I'm not making a big ... Just where's my thing? I ordered it." I'm like, I go, "Don't make a big deal." Finally, they bring over this lamb thing after this whole thing, I go, "Great, just eat it." She's like, "Okay." So she's eating it out of spite, and she takes the first bite and she goes, (choking sound) . And I go, "Oh, oh, my god. S- she's not choking." And she's like pointing at her throat like ... And I go, "Oh, my god." So my dad sticks his finger down my mom's throat and he's like ... And she's like ... Like, making these noises. And I go, "Oh, this is a nightmare." And then some woman runs over and she goes, "I'm a nurse, I'm a nurse!" And knocking over tables and knocking everything over, and grabs my mom and picks up my mom and gives her the Heimlich, and my mom is making a noise that I've never heard anyone ever ... She was making ... I've never heard my mom make this. She was going like ... (gasping sound) And, and then a ... And she pulled it and then a lamb ball flew out of my mom's mouth and hit the wall, and the whole restaurant is just looking at us. And they sit down and she's crying, you know? And she's, you know, alive. And my dad goes, "All right. Let's just finish dinner and ..." I go, "Finish dinner? Wh- it's over."... we're, we're going home, we're, we're buying a bottle of wine for that lady-

    13. SB

      (laughs)

    14. JF

      ... and we're getting out of here. And my dad was like, "That lady should have minded her own business."

    15. SB

      (laughs)

    16. JF

      I go, "What?" He goes, "Maybe it was mom's time to go," you know?

    17. SB

      What? (laughs)

    18. JF

      (laughs) You know? But it was, it, they were that weird and funny, where they're, like, odd people, but always making jokes, but that was so... And it was embarrassing, but, you know, I remember telling that story, you know, and she, uh, at a party and she would love to hear it, because that was just very her. And, you know, she, she, she just did stuff like that, where it was just like, "Ugh, this can't be real." A lot

  6. 12:45 – 14:11

    Who Was Jimmy Trying to Impress More: His Mother or His Father?

    1. JF

      of that.

    2. SB

      Of both your parents, who were you trying to please the most, do you think? Who were, who were you waiting for the well done from the most?

    3. JF

      God. That's a great question. I would say, probably my, my mom. I think she, she, uh, I, I would, I would like to make her laugh, you know, because she had a great laugh. They both did, but I think, of both of them, I think my mom would be the one, because I was like, she was a fan of mine. So it's almost like going like, "Do you like my new song?" (laughs)

    4. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    5. JF

      "Do you like the second record?" (laughs) You know, it's like, if you're a fan of the Beatles, you know, you're like, "Do you like Sgt. Pepper?" (laughs)

    6. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    7. JF

      You know, you know? It, it, and she'd be like, "I like it. I like this, you know, better," because I could tell that she was a fan of mine. So she's like, "Oh, I like this new thing you're doing," or, "I like this song you did," you know? Uh, I, I think that was great because I could get feedback from someone I could tell was kind of studying what I was doing.

    8. SB

      For me, being a comedian and being comedic is so, so... I say this with the hu- the most amount of respect.

    9. JF

      (laughs) Yeah.

    10. SB

      But it's so, so strange (laughs) because it's such a big risk and it's such a unique career to pursue, with very little promise of it, of financial return or any real-

    11. JF

      Yeah, yeah.

    12. SB

      ... notoriety. Like, when I spoke to Jim- uh, Jimmy Carr and other comedians that I've interviewed, there's something a little bit... (laughs)

  7. 14:11 – 16:48

    Jimmy's Relationship With Money

    1. SB

    2. JF

      Say it.

    3. SB

      (laughs)

    4. JF

      Crazy?

    5. SB

      Crazy.

    6. JF

      Mental, yeah.

    7. SB

      Crazy about it.

    8. JF

      You know, I never, and I still to this day, I don't care about money. I never cared about money. I never did anything for... I'm, I don't, I, I just don't do it. I never did it for money, and I always just... I worked because I liked working, you know? I liked... I worked since I was 13 because I enjoyed, I guess, getting a paycheck, but, you know, and paying for things, but I don't know what things I was paying for. I was 13 years old. But, I mean, I, I liked the idea of going into work and working a 9:00 to 5:00 day and, you know, doing overtime, and I, I, I looked forward to working, wherever it was. And, like, maybe it was because I was trying to be my dad, 'cause he would go to work in the mornings and then I would see him at night, you know, when he came home. But I, I remember just not caring about money, and my mom... I would always put our laundry in the laundry basket or whatever, and my mom would do the laundry, she'd be like, "Jimmy, I found $5 in your jeans." And I go, "Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah." She goes, "Thanks." She goes, "Next time, I'm gonna keep it."

    9. SB

      (laughs)

    10. JF

      And I go, "Do it." I could care less what I'm gonna do. I take... She's like, you know... And then my dad's like, "You gotta start caring about money." And I go, "I don't. I don't, I, I don't think I ever will." I just don't... It never was a thing for me. I never cared about, oh, I got the most, or I, I got paid blah, blah, blah. I just loved the experience of it all.

    11. SB

      The experience of...

    12. JF

      Work, uh-

    13. SB

      Any work or...

    14. JF

      Any work. It led to comedy, as well as when I did comedy shows. You know, when you, when you worked at The Improv in LA, which is a great comedy club in Los Angeles on Melrose Avenue, you would go up and I think the paycheck was $7.25. That's what you get paid total. There's no way you could do that for the money, 'cause I mean, it's worthless.

    15. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    16. JF

      What's $7 gonna do for you? But it was the getting on stage, the stage time, that was priceless, and building an act and trying to get a persona and build a brand and build a character and, and work on your act, that could lead to a bigger act or, uh, a Saturday night gig. A Saturday night gig paid maybe $20 a, a gig, and that was kind of okay money. And they would also feed you on a Saturday. So, which is great, because I had no food, you know? I was just, like, living there going like, "Oh," you know, I make, got this $7, I can buy some things, but I didn't really eat much. Saturday they would feed you and... I remember my first

  8. 16:48 – 20:55

    Jimmy's Anecdote With Jerry Seinfeld

    1. JF

      Saturday gig at The Improv. I go in, um, it's a big deal, and I'm brand new, uh, probably out in LA maybe six months or something, and I worked my way... You have to do any weeknight. Anytime they call, you have to be up there. And so I did that and I put my dues in for that and showed up, and I had, I did pretty well. I had a good 10-minute act. And, um, Saturday night gig and I get there and I see Jerry Seinfeld in the restaurant. I go (gasps) and I go out to the, uh, payphone and I call my parents, 1-800-COLLECT. Do you know what that is?

    2. SB

      Yeah, at least just about. (laughs)

    3. JF

      Yeah, it's like a f- a way to make a collect call so that you don't pay for it if you have no money, so you would call 1-800-COLLECT and someone would have to pay for the... My parents would pay for the phone call from LA. And I called my mom, 1-800-COLLECT, and she goes, "What's up? Hi, Jimmy." I go, "Mom, Jerry Seinfeld is at the club, at The Improv tonight." She's like, "Oh my God. Jerry Seinfeld. Oh my God, I can't believe it." Uh, she's like, uh, this is the peak of Seinfeld. She goes, "Is he gonna go do standup?" And I go, "I don't think so. I don't know. He's just eating at the restaurant and he's, I know he's a fan of comedy." And, uh, the owner, his name was Bud Friedman, and so he was there with Bud. So I go, so I go in and I'm getting ready to do my act, which was a lot of impressions, and I'm waiting there and who goes on stage but Jerry Seinfeld. He just walks on stage. They go, "We have a surprise for you tonight." And he gets a standing ovation, cr- cr- before he even says anything.... comes out, does his greatest hits. I mean, crushing every joke, uh, the, the famous ones, the, the sock missing from the dryer, the whole bit. He did everything, then he says, "Goodnight," standing ovation, and he leaves. And the guy goes, "Okay, who's on next?" "Uh, Mark." And this guy, Mark goes, "I'm not following that."

    4. SB

      (laughs)

    5. JF

      And he goes, "Uh, how about, uh, you?" And he, you know, there's two other guys there, like, uh, "Uh, Daryl," or ... No, he goes, "I'm not following that." He's like, "Who's Jimmy Fallon?" And I go, "That's, that's me." He goes, "Yeah, you're up next, kid." I go, "Oh, my gosh. My first Saturday night, I have to follow the greatest comedian of all..." I mean, he was the hottest comedian, might be one of the best comedians of all time now. I mean, he's the greatest. I had to follow that as my first act. I'm like, (breathes deeply) and so I went up and I had this doll, and I would do these impressions about a Troll doll, and different impressions of celebrities that would be the host of the com-

    6. SB

      Like this one.

    7. JF

      Wow, you do your research. (laughs) Unless you just carry that around. (laughs)

    8. SB

      (laughs)

    9. JF

      Like that one. So I would have this doll. Oh, my gosh, this is my act. This is... So I would have this, and I'd go, "Hello, I'm Jimmy Fallon, and welcome to the auditions for Troll Productions Incorporated. We're looking for a star or sponsor for our new line of Troll..." I would do, like, a British accent, I don't know why.

    10. SB

      (laughs)

    11. JF

      I thought that was cool for me at the time. Probably sounds terrible to you. Um, and I don't mean to be offensive. I go, "Uh, we're looking for a star or celebrity to sponsor our new line of Troll dolls for our new, uh, line of commercials. Uh, first up, John Travolta." And then I go, "Geez, like, I swear to God, I mean, like, look at his hair. Like, who does this, who does this hair? Like, it's so weird. Like, what kind of doll is this, right? I mean, like, I can't even, like, play with this thing over here, you know? A-hoo, you know, Sandy," you know, would do something like that. And, but this time I came out and I go, "First up for the celebrities is Seinfeld." And I go, "Okay, people, okay, look at these dolls. They don't, their arms and legs don't move. These aren't fun. He's got no pants on. He's not even wearing pants. What kind of a doll is this?" And it worked, and I followed Jerry Seinfeld, and I was like... And that was cool. And then I went down the, the list, and I finished my act, and I pulled out a guitar and I played guitar with the Troll doll, and that was my act for years. My name is Jimmy Fallon, and welcome to the auditions for Troll Productions Incorporated. Remember these little guys with fuzzy hair. We're looking for, like, a jingle for our new line of Troll doll commercials. First up, U2.

    12. NA

      (guitar strumming) Troll doll out on the street. Got a job, got no money, got no shoes on their feet.

  9. 20:55 – 21:54

    Was Jimmy a Confident Young Man?

    1. NA

    2. SB

      Were you a confident young man? So if I zoom back to when you were 12 and you were the class clown in 1986, were you are a confident man? What was going on in your head?

    3. JF

      I think I was pretty confident. I wasn't cocky. I mean, I reme- I remember, like, my grandfather and my parents being like, "Hey, don't be too full of yourself." They didn't like kids that were too full of themselves or cocky. I was pretty, uh, but I was confident.

    4. SB

      In your eighth grade class, you were voted by your peers most likely to replace David Letterman on the Late Night show.

    5. JF

      (laughs)

    6. SB

      And you were 13 years old at the time.

    7. JF

      Is that crazy? 'Cause I ended up doing that.

    8. SB

      That's so crazy.

    9. JF

      I ended up doing that. I replaced David Letterman.

    10. SB

      But you were aiming at that.

    11. JF

      I wasn't.

    12. SB

      You were aiming at the SNL thing, right?

    13. JF

      SN- yeah, Saturday Night Live-

    14. SB

      SNL, right.

    15. JF

      ... was my aim. I wanted to be a cast member on Saturday Night Live, um, which I ended up doing. But then Saturday Night Live is what got me Late Night, uh, you know, to... which was Letterman's show. And then Late Night got me The

  10. 21:54 – 25:35

    Principles for Achieving Your Childhood Dream

    1. JF

      Tonight Show.

    2. SB

      When you look back at how, at that age, you were aiming, uh, you know, as a young man to be on SNL, which is exceedingly rare, but you also went on to re- you know, replace David Letterman on the, the Late Night show.

    3. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    4. SB

      When you look back in hindsight and go... So if your, if one of, if your child came to you and said, "Dad, how does one aim at a goal and then accomplish it? And how did you aim at such a goal? And in hindsight, what were the factors that went into accomplishing that goal?" Are there, like, principles that you could transfer to somebody to make them accomplish such a goal? 'Cause, you know, one of your best friends, I think it was Frank Gentile, recalled that you are... He says, "I've never met anybody more focused on what their goal was in life." It's, you know, I'm not a huge believer in manifestation as people often describe it, but it does feel like you pulled that into existence somehow.

    5. JF

      I remember just being... I, I don't know what, what it is. I, I wasn't that well-read or anything like that, but I just knew that, uh, what I wanted to do, I think from around 12 or 13, and maybe it's because people said I was good at it or I was making people laugh, you know? So I think when my f- peers and my friends said, like, "You should do this," like, "Uh, I think you're gonna be famous one day," or, "I think you're gonna be a comedian," you know, I think you start believing it, and you go like, "Oh, maybe I am good at this." Like, I don't even remember watching Late Night or David Letterman around that time. I knew Saturday Night Live, and I probably did watch Letterman and Johnny Carson and The Tonight Show. But I think I started thinking, "Oh, yeah, Saturday Night Live will be... That's what I wanna do." That's, that'd be the ultimate dream, 'cause that felt exciting and electric and show business but also cool-

    6. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    7. JF

      ... and edgy. And I was like, "If that would be my goal, like, wh- how would I do that?" And I remember, like, secretly, if I threw a coin in a fountain or if I made a wish on a birthday cake, you know, which I still do, you know, uh, that's not my wish anymore. But I remember I would blow out the candles and I'd say, "I wanna be on Saturday Night Live," every year, all of my birthdays. Any wish that I could make, that's what I wished, that I could be on Saturday Night Live. And so maybe that...... pressure that I put on myself drove me to figure it out and see what were the right steps. I think, you know, my big decision, you know, was going into standup and doing impressions, I knew the show could always use impressions and people doing impersonations of celebrities.

    8. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    9. JF

      You know, and so I thought that was one way in. And so I remember doing that, and then I remember reading that people that, uh, study at The Groundlings, which is an imprompt troupe, uh, if they study there, s- some people go from The Groundlings to Saturday Night Live. So I moved out to LA and started taking classes at The Groundlings just in case that could help me. I also knew that there was a management company named Brillstein-Grey that managed a lot of the people that were on Saturday Night Live, and if I could get seen by Brillstein-Grey, maybe they would put me in touch with, you know, the Adam Sandlers of the world or the, you know, people that, uh, you know, they- they had everyone from I think Belushi on till, you know, they probably have people on the show now. But I remember getting a call from a manager who used to work at Brillstein-Grey, just left, her name was Randi Siegel, and she was great, and she was my manager. I moved out to LA with a manager, and so I thought she would know how to guide me to Saturday Night Live.

  11. 25:35 – 27:54

    How Did Jimmy's Parents React to His Career Plans?

    1. JF

    2. SB

      What are your parents saying at this time? 'Cause if you're- if one's kid says, "I'm gonna go out to LA to do comedy and improv and these kinds of things," your dad was a- a career man, he was working at IBM, I believe?

    3. JF

      Yes, he was working at IBM, and he said to me, I said, uh, he said, "Look, just guarantee me two years of college."

    4. SB

      Okay.

    5. JF

      Uh, just- just go to college for at least two years. Uh, I think we made a deal where he said, "If you go for four years, I'll- I'll pay for two years, and you pay for two years." I go, "Okay." That was kind of a deal for us. And so I remember going to college for three-and-a-half years, and on that half of that last semester, I- I got kind of an opportunity to go to LA to meet with this manager, and I said, I called my parents and I said, "I think I'm gonna drop out and move, and go to LA and go for it, and just try to take acting lessons and take class at The Groundlings, and try to get an audition for Saturday Night Live." And they were like, "All right, well, really think about this. You know, this is really what you're doing. Who is this person that you're going out to?" And I go, "Her name is Randi Siegel, she's a manager." And I had met her through a- a guy that I used to work for in- in Troy, New York. I was a receptionist at a news weekly called, uh, Metroland. I used to answer the phones and I would also do the personal ads like, you know, men seeking women and blah, blah, blah, and I typed those things out. And I remember he moved to LA to be a music manager, and so I gave him my tape on his way out, a videotape of me doing my troll act, and I said, uh, "If you see anybody..." He goes, "Oh, I'm not doing comedy, I'm doing music." I go, "I know, but if you see anybody, maybe pass it along." And so he passed it along to this manager. ... so she talked to my parents, and they got a phone call where she was like, "I think Jimmy's got something. You know, he's green, but I think if he gets, you know, if he goes to work and puts in the work, I think that he'll get something, you know, I- I- I think he'll be successful."

    6. SB

      He's green?

    7. JF

      Amateur. He's, you know, he's not ready yet. If you, you know, you're not ripe, he's- he's green. So if you're green, you- you're like, uh, you know, a green banana, (laughs) you know?

  12. 27:54 – 33:35

    Did Jimmy Ever Doubt Himself While Trying to Break Into Show Business?

    1. JF

    2. SB

      Did you ever give up on yourself, or did you ever doubt yourself while you were out in LA?

    3. JF

      Yeah, definitely. A bunch of times. It's tough when you're just not getting the- the... it's not working, and you want to tell everyone that it is working, but it's hard, it's a lot of rejection, and you end up, like, you're just trying so hard and you go, "I know what I want, but it- it takes a, takes so much time to get there." But in the meantime, you have to take auditions. You- you have to. 'Cause I was like, I- I didn't want to take acting lessons, 'cause I read somewhere that James Dean would go to acting class and just watch and never do the acting lessons, and I liked James Dean for some reason. So I would go and I'd just sit in the back of the... and watch everybody. And finally (laughs) the acting teacher came out to me, he was like, "Are you sure you want to do this?"

    4. SB

      (laughs)

    5. JF

      "Because, I mean, you can get so much more out if you did this and started working with other actors. I think you should, because you're a standup comedian, you don't perform with anyone, you're by yourself on stage, I think you should learn how to act with other- oth- other actors." And I was like, "Yeah, maybe he's, (laughs) maybe he's right. Like, I'm- I'm not James Dean." So I started acting, and then you realize, "Oh gosh, I'm really not good at this, I gotta learn how to do this." It's- it's a skill-

    6. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    7. JF

      ... to play off of other people and to listen to other people. So then I started doing auditions because that's... my manager would get me on audition for movies and stuff, and I think my first audition was to play a- a lifeguard in The Brady Bunch 2 movie or something, and I had to say like one line, like, "Get out of the pool," something like that. And, uh, so I remember going and, uh, my- my- uh, my line was printed on fax paper, they faxed it over when fax machines were a thing. And so I had... and they- they would tell you, "Bring in the paper when you do the audition, hold the lines so that they don't think that you're off book, so they think that you have a chance of getting better." I go, "Okay, great." So I'd hold the paper and I go... and action, and I go, "Get out of the- get out of the pool." And they go, "Okay, you want to just do it one more time?" I go, "Okay." It's quiet and it's just so awkward. And I go, "Get out of the pool," or whatever it was. And she goes, "Okay, uh, buh-bye."

    8. SB

      (laughs)

    9. JF

      They actually said buh-bye. And I was like, my face got red, I got so embarrassed. And I got back to my apartment, and my manager called me and I go-... uh, "Did you hear feedback?" She goes, "Yeah, you didn't get it. Uh, they said that..." Really? She goes, "They said you're, uh, too green."

    10. SB

      (laughs)

    11. JF

      And I go, "Okay." And she goes, "But we have to work on it, you know. Just keep doing it and keep doing auditions and working on these lines. And you should get an acting coach and go, bring the lines to the acting class and go, 'Here's... Can you do Get Out of the Pool," you know, whatever, "better?'" So, it just got, over and over again you'd get rejected and you, you wouldn't get parts. I got no parts. I probably auditioned for, you know, 30, uh, shows and movies and stuff like that. And it... Uh, you just kind of... It's tough. It's really tough. So anyone going into the business or acting or, or, or any of that stuff, the entertainment stuff, you're gonna get beat up. Re-... It's gonna be to the point where you're like, "Whew, I'm so depressed I can't do it." But just know that if you can just get through it and keep working, eventually whatever it is is gonna happen in life will work out. Uh, maybe you won't even be an actor, but maybe you'll be a, um, lighting, um, uh, director. Maybe you'll work on sets. Maybe, uh, maybe it won't be acting, but it will get you to where you're supposed to be if you just keep going and keep doing. And I just kept kind of telling myself that. And I, you know, I ran out of money and I was like, "I'm gonna have to go home to live with my parents and probably go back to college if I can, if they can let me back in." And I think I even look, might have looked into it. But I was just so bummed out, because that's not what I wanted at all. I wanted to be on Saturday Night Live. And, um, you know, it just, uh, reality was like, oh. It almost didn't feel like living in this world, 'cause it's like people couldn't believe that. They were like, "That's not reality. You can't just say 'I'm gonna be on Saturday Night Live.'" I remember going to Groundlings class. My first teacher, who's great, his name is Jim Wise. And he goes, "Uh, what do you wanna do?" And he would go around the horn. And people were like, "I wanna be in movies. I wanna be in a TV show. I wanna be in a sitcom." And I said, "I wanna be on Saturday Night Live." He's like, "Well, that's very specific, because that's like, you know, it's one in a zillion." I go, "That's what I want." He's like... And he brought that up to me, brings that up every... He's like, "I'll never forget that. You said that that's what you wanted to do." And that was my ultimate, ultimate. I said, "If I do nothing else in life, that's all I wanted to do." And, like, even if that, if I got on for one season or one episode, then I could do whatever. I could... I, I didn't care what I did after that. That was my...

    12. SB

      What was the fixation with Saturday Night Live?

    13. JF

      I think my parents loved it and, and their friends loved it, but that was what they would watch, and that was like the pinnacle of comedy. That was the best comedy show in America. And so that was the best. So it's like playing for the greatest team, you know, playing for the Yankees or, you know, whatever. (laughs) I don't know soccer, but Arsenal? I have no idea. (laughs)

    14. SB

      Manchester United.

    15. JF

      Oh, Manchester United. Yeah. (laughs)

    16. SB

      (laughs)

    17. JF

      You couldn't help yourself.

    18. SB

      (laughs)

    19. JF

      Oh my gosh. But yes, playing for the... You're playing f-... You wanna play, play for the best. If you can make it there, phew, that's the best team. Then you could do whatever after that, if you play for Man U.

    20. SB

      But

  13. 33:35 – 37:41

    Where Does Jimmy's Passion for SNL Come From?

    1. SB

      it's slightly different with you, because a lot of y- upcoming football players would be happy to play for any Premier League team. Man United is, you know, of course great, but they would aim for any Premier League team. Whereas you seem to be like religiously intent on it being Saturday Night Live.

    2. JF

      Yeah, had to be that, because I think that's what we, we would watch, we would talk about.

    3. SB

      As a family.

    4. JF

      As kind of a family, yeah, as a family. They would, uh, they would tape it, you know. We were one of the first families to have a VCR, you know, which is a, anyone young listening to this podcast, a video cassette recorder. So it would tape. It's like a DVR, digital video recording. So it's a video cassette and you would tape it on these giant tapes and they would record two hours, you know, on television. And so we would tape the show and then you could rewatch it. And then I would rewatch it and study it and watch the sketches over and over again and watch repeats and watch The Greats and watch Belushi and Dan Aykroyd and people I want... Bill Murray & Steve Martin, people I wanted to be like. As it got into high school, I was taping it, watching the best sketches, and I would go to my friend's party and show the best sketch that week and go, "Oh, this is the best sketch. It's Chris Farley and it's blah, blah, blah." Or, you know?

    5. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    6. JF

      I, I, I would be obsessed that way. I keep... I almost became so obsessed in high school that I couldn't really hang out with anyone while I watched the show, 'cause I didn't like it if anyone didn't like the show. And my parents used to let me drink if I was stayed in a h- if I stayed home. So if I didn't go out, they would buy me a six-pack of beer, then I could drink at probably, you know, 16 or something or something like that. You know, not the smartest thing.

    7. SB

      (laughs)

    8. JF

      But, but they would, you know, I would hang out with my friends and they would say, yeah, they're gonna have a couple beers and, you know, but I would watch Saturday Night Live with a six-pack and watch it and, um, study it. And I ended up just stop watching it with anyone else. I prob-... You know, I guess I still drank. Um, that's sad to say I drank by myself.

    9. SB

      (laughs)

    10. JF

      But, uh, I became an alcoholic at 16. Uh, uh, but (laughs) but it was, it was a thing that I would do and I would just study it, and I would... every Saturday Night. And it, it continuing into college. My friends would have parties and they go, "You gotta come, right?" I go, "I'll be there at 1:00." And they go, "You... No, the party's... You gotta come b-" I go, "Saturday Night? I can't go." And they go, "Just tape it." I go, "I can't just tape it. I have to watch it live."

    11. SB

      Obsessed.

    12. JF

      Yeah. I was beyond obsessed. Uh, uh, obsessed, without a doubt. That was it. That was the pinnacle. Like, whew, even... I, I went on like an NBC tour with my dad, like a bus trip to New York City, and he took me on a tour of NBC to see Saturday Night Live and-... you know, this is as I was older. I was just so nervous to go in the building and, oh my gosh, this is the building. This is what it looks like and this is the, you know, the, the, the, the, the doorway and the revolving door. I know all this and that. I know e- everything. I know the, what the w- walls look like. I know what the ceiling's painted like. I know art deco decor. You know, I knew everything. I geeked out and I was like, "This is the best day just going on tour there." Now, I've worked there for 20 something years. You know, it's my h- home. I've, I've been working in that building since 1998. I don't even think about it anymore. That's the door I go into to work. N- every now and then, I'll walk to, you know... I, I walk to work almost every day, but I'll get that feeling again like, "Oh, yeah, don't lose that."

    13. SB

      This word obsession, it seems to be... Well, it's earlier when I said, you know, the, the principles of all the characteristics that got you to, to where you are today, but clearly obsession is one of them. Uh, I mean, you're, you're obsessed to an extent that I didn't actually realize with becoming a host on Saturday Night Live. (laughs)

    14. JF

      Yeah.

    15. SB

      Uh, and obsession is a powerful force, isn't it? Because it, it means that one can bang their head against an immovable object over and over again until the immovable object moves out its way, and that's kind of what you found yourself doing in LA. You're sat... You're going to these auditions, you're getting rejected.

  14. 37:41 – 40:24

    Jimmy's Mental Health During the Auditioning Phase

    1. SB

      What was your mental health like in that period when you were in LA? Because you're dealing with constant rejection, you're, you're running out of money, you're contending with having to go home.

    2. JF

      It wasn't the greatest, and I'm a pretty positive guy in general, but I think that was probably my lowest looking back. I mean, I remember like, you know, uh, trying to see what therapy was or if I could afford a therapist or what that meant or-

    3. SB

      Why?

    4. JF

      Because I was just breaking down mentally of like, w- what, what, what have I, what have I done? Like, what have I done? I've, I've kind of made these decisions and I wasn't getting anywhere, and it was like... I mean, I had really kind of no friends and no social life, just obsessed with work and obsessed with standup and trying to make my act better and trying to see if I can get on Saturday Night Live and having no money and just going like, "What is this all about?" You know, I can't... I don't know if I could afford to keep failing. You know, I can't live in my... an apartment if you don't make money, you know what I mean? I can't, can't afford gas to get to the audition. You can't eat. You, you... it's just like, you just go, "Oh, yeah, I just gotta keep doing gigs, but I'm running out of space, so maybe if I go home, I can go back to doing, like, these little clubs and make some money, save up money, then go back out and try again in LA." I remember there became a moment where I'm like, "Oof." I think I wrote a letter to my best friend like, "I'm losing it, dude." And in fact, I know he did because he still has the letter and he works for our show now, and he says, "I have it and I'll publish it one day. I'll give it to people if I need the money. (laughs) I'll, I'll, I'll release your letter of (laughs) you, you emotionally broken." (laughs) And I go... You know, but that's what best friends do. They hold it over your head.

    5. SB

      (laughs)

    6. JF

      (laughs) And he's a sick dude.

    7. SB

      They're gonna sell it on eBay.

    8. JF

      Yeah, exactly. They'll sell it on eBay.

    9. SB

      (laughs)

    10. JF

      Uh, and I go, "Gosh." I mean, you know, it's one of those embarrassing things where, "Oh, I probably wish I didn't write that," but...

    11. SB

      What did it say?

    12. JF

      (sighs) I go... I, I don't even ask, but I think it was something to the point like, "I'm losing it and I don't know if I can make it and I have... I don't know what else to do with my life," and, uh, you know, something to that or effect of, you know, "I miss college. I miss my... I miss you. I miss having friends. I miss going out. I miss..." You know, I think it was that. It was like maybe regretting my decision to, to move to LA.

    13. SB

      Was there anything that this

  15. 40:24 – 44:52

    What Would Jimmy Say to His Younger Self?

    1. SB

      Jimmy might go back to that Jimmy and say to him at that time if you could to... Some message that maybe he needed to hear that he wasn't hearing? Maybe advice or...

    2. JF

      Yeah, I mean, of course the advice would be like, "It's gonna be okay." You know, I, I, I think probably the best would be to go back and be like, "Hey, I'm proud of you, dude. Like, you're doing exactly what you have to do. You're doing what you have to do to become me. (laughs) So I'm so proud of you, so keep it up." You know? You know? Uh, I mean, I would... All the things that... Like, I remember just in LA and like... (sighs) I remember like finding cardboard boxes that were thrown out in this garage next to me and bringing that in, not dirty or anything, but new boxes, and I would put sheets over and they would become tables, so I would use that as like kind of an end table next to my bed and stuff like that and you go, "Oh, yeah, those are..." It's creative. You know, it, it could, you could look at it so sad to talk about now and you go, "Oh my God, you were by yourself and you had cardboard boxes as tables?" And you go, "I didn't think about that. I was just trying to be... That would look nice if it had a sheet over it and that looked kind of cool." It was very kind of dormy, you know, but I, I think about it, I don't know why it just made me think about it now, I'm just... So maybe, I mean, having cardboard furniture was depressing, but (laughs) you know. You know, I, I think that's where you have to dig and see if you can make the... Find the funny in it and go like, "Oof, if you can perform now, then get ready when... If you're, if you get, uh, if you step in the ring, you're an animal."

    3. SB

      Why I'm proud of you.

    4. JF

      You didn't quit. You didn't... Y- you're really like against all odds. You're doing something that no one in the family has done, that none of your friends have done. You really don't know where this is gonna end and you're kind of in adventuring into an odd place. You're discovering all new stuff that's never been done.... and it's, it's- it's- it's great to do this because one day you'll get tested in a different way, and you'll be mentally stronger. And so I- I'm proud of you because this is all tough now, but it will pay off, eh, when- when you need to show your strengths or, you know, it's almost like you're going to the gym, you know, it will pay off one day. Like, I don't wanna do it. I don't wanna run, I don't wanna lift, I don't wanna do anything. I don't wanna eat. But you go, "I know, but the future me is telling you this is great that you're doing this 'cause you're going to have it. It's just gonna be... When- when you need it, you'll be strong enough." And so I think I was becoming stronger as I was building it, and, uh, I look back and I- I wouldn't change anything, you know? Uh, at the time, you know, if anything, I, you know, I would say I want it to happen faster, but not really. I think you have to live through all the stuff and go, "Oh, yeah, now I remember that. That was cringey. Oh, that was rough. Oh, I remember that. That was bad. But that was a good one." And then you go, "Oh, yeah, that was another great one." And then, oh, yeah, and then you start thinking of all these stuff that you thought was depressing then that's kind of charming now, and you go, kind of, "I love those days. I love the days where you bombed and that was the biggest problem. The biggest problem in your life was that you didn't do a great impression of Jerry Seinfeld. (laughs) Like, that was the biggest problem in your life? Okay, then I think your life is pretty good." (laughs)

    5. SB

      (laughs)

    6. JF

      Like, dude, you look back, you go, "That was... It meant so much to me though," you know? And I think about that now with my daughters, you know, they tell me the stuff that's going on in school and stuff, and to me, I'm like, "You won't even see these kids. They'll mean... This will mean nothing to you. These kids, maybe you'll be friends with them for life. I hope, so that'd be great, but I don't think so." I don't remember anyone, I don't talk to anyone from my grade school, but it's the biggest thing in their life now. So you can't say that 'cause it's like, "Dad, this is my life. What are you talking about? This is the biggest thing." Like, high school is so slow when you're in high school. Right now, four years is a joke.

    7. SB

      (laughs)

    8. JF

      Four years is like a joke to me. I go, "Oh my God, I can do anything for four years." When you're in it, it's long. Four years feels like 25 years.

    9. SB

      (laughs)

  16. 44:52 – 47:15

    What Life Would Have Been Like If Jimmy Hadn’t Got on SNL

    1. SB

      Yeah.

    2. JF

      You know?

    3. SB

      Could you have imagined a reality where you didn't end up getting onto SNL at some point? So if we were sat here now, you're 50 years old, and you're sat here and you'd never done it.

    4. JF

      I would've done it.

    5. SB

      But, so this is what I'm- I'm getting at, is...

    6. JF

      I would've found a way and done it, and even just walked on or something.

    7. SB

      (laughs)

    8. JF

      I would've found a way to get on it. I- I would've found some way to either be an extra, or walk in the background, or do something, or I- I would've... There's no way. There's no way. I- I have to, but you're saying if I didn't, what would happen? Are you saying... I don't think it would ever happen.

    9. SB

      (laughs)

    10. JF

      I had to be on it. I was gonna make it happen and I had to do it.

    11. SB

      (laughs)

    12. JF

      You know? I don't think there was an option. I don't think there... I- I would've done it. I don't think there's ever an option I wouldn't ever have been on that show.

    13. SB

      I asked the question because there are areas of my life where I sometimes reflect and go, "I always thought that that was going to happen." And the consideration that that might not have happened makes... It's almost like this, like, then life wouldn't have been real. Like, then everything I believed would've been a lie. There's small things in my life that when, if you look at me as a young man and I'm filming myself, pretending that a TV show have asked me to do something that ended up happening 10 years ago, and I go, it was... that was always how in my brain-

    14. JF

      I did that too.

    15. SB

      Y- yeah.

    16. JF

      But, I mean, I- I think a lot of, uh, us, uh, performers have done this, where you interview yourself-

    17. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    18. JF

      ... and you pretend you're on a radio show, uh, and you go like, "Uh, here I am. I'm counting down the top 10 songs and here's the..." And I have cassettes of me doing that, you know? I think a lot of people do that.

    19. SB

      When I asked you the question about SNL, you were so convinced that that's always the way that it was going to go, and I'm like, that's what I'm trying to... I wanted to see your reaction when I make you consider that it didn't go that way.

    20. JF

      I can't see it not happening. I had to... It h- uh, it was going to happen. I- I don't know. I- I don't know if I can tell you honestly that I could imagine another path. I- I don't even know if I could fake it 'cause I would be lying. I know I would be on Saturday Night Live. I have to. I just, that was... I- I can't even... I- I can't lie and say, "Well, I guess I could have done that." I just know.

  17. 47:15 – 51:43

    Jimmy's First SNL Audition

    1. JF

    2. SB

      So how did you go from that kid who's writing the letter to his friend saying that he's considering giving up and seeking out therapy and those kinds of things, how did you get from that moment to that first Saturday Night Live audition?

    3. JF

      I think you get l- little things, little good things happen to you. You know?

    4. SB

      You were gonna use the word luck, right? It sounded like you paused on the word luck there, but...

    5. JF

      Uh, I could use luck, but I- I'm just gonna say good things. (laughs) I mean, it- it probably is luck. I- I feel like I'm a lucky person, but I think they're just like, uh, like you... I- I think I got a holding deal at Warner Brothers Television to do, like, to act for a sitcom or something, even though I didn't want a sitcom. I remember putting in the contract that if I get Saturday Night Live while I'm doing the sitcom that I can contractually get out, and they said, "No, that's the whole reason. No, no one can... You can't..." I go, "Well, that's- that's the only reason I could... I have to get this in, this clause in my contract." And th- they said, "No one's ever asked for that, but, um, okay," and so they put it in my contract. So if I was on the show, the show didn't get picked up, but if the show got picked up and I got a chance to audition for Saturday Night Live, I could leave the show-

    6. SB

      (laughs)

    7. JF

      ... contractually 'cause they were like-It's just not, it's not gonna happen. But, so I ended up acting and getting a little money, which is great 'cause it actually, I could stay at my apartment and actually still work on my goal of Saturday Night Live, you know-

    8. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    9. JF

      ... while not doing, I didn't wanna act in sitcoms. But that, that helped me take a breath and go like, "Whew, okay, I got a couple more months of opportunity."

    10. SB

      And eventually you get a phone call?

    11. JF

      Yes. Um, my manager sent tapes and tapes and tapes to Saturday Night Live saying, "Can, you know, this is, he really wants it, blah, blah, blah." And so I got an audition for Saturday Night Live. This was my first of two auditions. Um, my first one I went to do standup, my troll bit, on stage at the Comic Strip here in, uh, in, in New York. And I remember going in and having my one outfit that I owned that I thought was the best and, you know, some shirt from the Gap or something and Nike sneakers that were like, it was such a big deal. I only wore them on special occasions, and this was it. And, uh, I went on stage with my troll doll and I saw Lorne was in the audience. He had his hat on.

    12. SB

      He's the founder of-

    13. JF

      Yes.

    14. SB

      ... creator.

    15. JF

      Yes. He's the creator of Saturday Night Live and, and now The Late Night and The Tonight Show. And I remember going on stage, and as soon as I d- as I did my first impression, I knew it just didn't work. It, I didn't have the audience. It was cut down from a 10-minute act to, I think three minutes, and I had to catch the audience, hook them in three minutes and leave. And I started the first 20 seconds, and I could tell, "This is bad." And it was sweaty. It was a bad audition. And I left and I go, "Oof." And we went to a diner next door to the club with my manager and I had coffee, and it was very depressing. Like, wow, that was my, this, that was it. That was my audition for Saturday Night Live. Lorne Michaels, who's the creator of the show was there. That was my big opportunity, and I blew it. You know. "All right, so let me fix..." He goes, "It'll be fine. Let's figure it out." Went back to LA, they said, "You didn't get it."

    16. SB

      How did that feel?

    17. JF

      For some reason at that point, I don't f- remember. I was a bit numb, I think then, and I think I was on... I was starting to work on my act and really getting into standup and I just kind of, uh, kept thinking in my head, "I, I have to get another shot. Another chance at auditioning or doing, showing them what I could really do," 'cause that was just not the best that I could do. But it wasn't too long after that where I got another phone call from Saturday Night Live.

    18. SB

      How old were you when you got that second call?

    19. JF

      23.

  18. 51:43 – 53:16

    Getting on SNL Before Turning 25 – A Non-Negotiable Goal

    1. JF

    2. SB

      So I heard you'd said, um, that if you didn't make it on SNL before the age of 25, you were gonna (laughs) ...

    3. JF

      I was gonna kill myself.

    4. SB

      Were you actually?

    5. JF

      Yeah. I wrote that in something, in some journal or something.

    6. SB

      You wrote what?

    7. JF

      "If I don't get on Saturday Night Live by the age of 25, then I'll, um, I'll kill myself."

    8. SB

      Did you mean that?

    9. JF

      Yeah, I did. But again, I knew that I was gonna be on Saturday Night Live, so I guess I didn't really mean it, 'cause I, I was gonna be on Saturday Night Live before I was 25. (laughs)

    10. SB

      So crazy.

    11. JF

      I just, I, I knew that I was going to be on it, so I, I d- it wasn't really a threat.

    12. SB

      So funny. Do you know what's funny is the, um... Actually it's in my book behind there, there's a screenshot of my diary and in the front page of my diary it says, "Before I'm 25." (laughs) And it has my goal written-

    13. JF

      (laughs)

    14. SB

      ... in the front of my diaryon and I've published it in my book, which is on the shelf somewhere. Isn't that funny that I had the same thing where I'm like, "Before I'm 25 years old, I will have to do this."

    15. JF

      Yes.

    16. SB

      Yeah. And it's-

    17. JF

      And, and, and-

    18. SB

      ... and it happened, thankfully.

    19. JF

      But d- did you think in your, when you were typing-

    20. SB

      I didn't say I was gonna kill myself, but... (laughs)

    21. JF

      Yeah, I don't, I think I typed it out, but a- again, I was into computers, so I think I typed it. I think it's on some file somewhere.

    22. SB

      Oh, okay.

    23. JF

      I think I said I would kill myself. Um, but, uh, I definitely said, you know, uh, yeah, 25 was my thing. (page turns)

  19. 53:16 – 57:20

    Ads

    1. JF

    2. SB

      I started my first business at 12 years old, and then I started more businesses at 14, 15, 16, 17 and 18. And at that time, what I didn't realize is that being a founder with no money meant that I also had to be the marketeer, the sales rep, the finance team, customer service, and the recruiter. But if you're starting a business today, thankfully there's a tool that wears all of those hats for you, our sponsor today, which is Shopify. Because of all of its AI integrations, using Shopify feels a bit like you've hired an entire growth team from day one, taking care of writing product descriptions, your website design, and enhancing your products images. Not to mention the bits you'd expect Shopify to handle, like the shipping, like the taxes, like the inventory. And if you are looking to get your business started, go to shopify.com/bartlett and sign up for a $1 per month trial. That's shopify.com/bartlett. (page turns) And you get this second call for the second audition around 23, 24 years old?

    3. JF

      Yeah. So I, I, then I said, "Do you want me to do the troll doll?" And they go, "No. We'd rather you not do the troll dolls 'cause we've seen that already." Like, "Okay."

    4. SB

      Was that the end of the troll doll?

    5. JF

      Well, that was my whole act. I don't have any- I don't have much more. (laughs) That was, that's all I did was the troll doll act. So I'm like, "What do I do?" So I just kind of did the troll doll act, uh, under a guise of a different thing where it's like a celebrity...... charity or, uh, you know. So, uh, re- you know, uh, I think it was the- (imitating Lorne Michaels) "How you doing? Uh, here we go. Uh." Oh my God. "You know, my mom always told me to, uh-" Oh my god. "... to get a lot of, how you doing? To get some exercise, and so, uh, she used to say, uh-" Jesus. "... all the time, she would say, 'Why don't you go to the store with your mother?'" (laughs) And I'd say- Skinny kid. (laughs) And I would say, uh, ha, I'd say, uh, "Why don't you shut up?" (laughs) Tha- that was the big, that was my big moment. That was the biggest moment for me. That was- that's crazy. That was the moment in the audition too that changed everything, 'cause I was doing a bunch of impressions and before I did that y- y- I'm so nervous. But now I'm on the actual stage and you're there and, um, uh, the, a producer comes over and says, "Jimmy Fallon?" You go, "Yeah." "Come with us." They go, "Just to let you know, Lorne Michaels doesn't laugh, so don't let that throw you if you're doing your act." You go, "Great. Thank you." And then they go, "Now go get, uh, hair and makeup." You go, "Wow. How cool, hair and makeup." I go get hair and makeup, they're doing my hair, they're putting makeup on because they're broadcasting my audition to California- (laughs) ... so that the heads of NBC can s- And the guy, uh, and girl doing my m- hair and makeup go, "Just so you know, Lorne doesn't really laugh in these auditions, so don't let that throw you when..." I go, "Okay, yeah, that's what I heard. Great. Thank you." "Now go get your microphone on." So they're putting a microphone on me and a mic pack and I'm like, in the audio he goes, "Uh, just a little advice. Lorne doesn't really laugh, so if you do your thing..." I go, "What is this guy's problem? Why is he not laughing? He's in the wrong business." (laughs) I mean, he's- he's in a comedy show. And so as I was doing that audition, I did an impression of Adam Sandler which was what you just played, and I remember at the time it was kind of new because Adam just left Saturday Night Live and no one was really doing Adam Sandler. And I was doing, you know, like, (imitating Adam Sandler) whatever, and I remember Lorne started laughing. And I go, "That's cool. That's a cool story." Even if I don't get Saturday Night Live, but I just knew that he started laughing. He put his head in his hand and was laughing and I go, "That's a good story. I'll tell my kids I made Lorne Michaels laugh on- on- on Saturday Night Live, on the set of Saturday Night Live." I wasn't really on the show, but I was on the set. And, uh, uh, I remember doing that and feeling good about the audition. Like, I left that going, uh, that we- that went as good as it could go. You know? That was the best I can- that's the best I can give him. That was it. And I remember one of the, uh, producers, Marcy Cline, came up to me and said, grabbed my hand and she goes, "Jimmy,

  20. 57:20 – 1:01:44

    Finally Getting SNL

    1. JF

      that was fantastic. You gotta feel good." And I was like... And I just felt like, okay, if they're saying it and I got- I feel good. Then you didn't hear, I didn't hear back for a couple weeks or whatever. It's like, it's crazy how long you wait 'cause you... A- and they go, "Look, we liked Jimmy. We saw him at the comedy club, but we were looking for a different direction." You know, for that audition I think they hired Tracy Morgan, so they were going in a different direction, the first audition. But this one, they called and they go, "Well, Lorne wants to meet you, uh, and talk to you. He's gonna be out in LA." And he had an office on the Paramount lot. And so, uh, I drove into the Paramount lot, I get my name to the front gate. It's a great- it's a great studio. It i- it feels like you're in the business. I don't know if you've ever been to the Paramount lot, but the giant gates and you f- you- you're- it's a movie set and the gates open and you go to a parking spot and you're like... And there's actors walking around and it just feels like you're in the business. And it's nerve-wracking. I went into Lorne's office. He had like a, you know, some office on the- on the lot. And I remember going into his office and everything was white and it kind of felt heavenly almost and you're just like... And I sat across the desk from him and he goes, uh, "Jimmy, do you wear wigs?" And I was like, "Oh, no I just g- I do this to my hair. I just spike it up." He's like, "No, no, no. I'm saying like for characters and stuff. Like have- do you- uh, have you done characters with like- where you wear wigs and stuff?" I go, "Uh, no. I-" He goes, "B- because we want you for the show." And I just think, you know, with some more practice and if you try to do different p-" And as soon as he, whatever he was saying I couldn't hear. The rest was slow motion. I was like, "Oh my gosh. He just said I got Saturday Night Live. I did it. I got Saturday Night Live. It's happening." I couldn't believe it. And I go, "Okay." And I shook his hand, I go, "I hope I make you proud." And I left and think I pulled over to the first payphone I could get to and called my mom and I'm like, "I just got Saturday Night Live." And it was like, "Wah!" You know? You know? You know? It was just- it was crazy. The whole thing's crazy. I'm coming back to New York 'cause I'm gonna be on the show that I tried to be on my whole life. I did it. It's happening. And here we go. And it was like, wow. And I said goodbye to LA and my roommates and everyone's just so happy for me and- And then I went to New York and got an apartment in- in Midtown and it was the greatest, uh, thing. And I took Saturday Night Live and went from there and did a couple movies, I met my wife. It's the best thing that ever happened to me. And then, uh, I didn't work for a while, uh, after the movies, and then Lorne asked me to be on- to host Late Night and replace Conan O'Brien. I did. I worked hard at that. And then I got asked to replace Jay Leno on The Tonight Show and I did that and here I am. Uh, and now I'm host of The Tonight Show and crazy life and crazy opportunities and s- it's just so interesting and fun. There was emotion in your face when you talked about getting SNL and calling your mum. It's so s- interesting that it's decades ago. Yeah.You know, again, like, it's the end of Rocky. You know, it's the thing, it's like, "I did it." It's like, "Yes." He goes, "You, you did it. That's insane. (laughs) You, you, you've gotta be kidding me. You, you, you, you did it, wh- what we all said you were gonna do, but you went and actually... this is, it's crazy. It, it, n- it's, it's, n- not many people get, do this." And I was like, "Yeah." Uh, and to talk to your mom, who was your biggest fan and always believed in you, you know, that's emotional, and it's like, (exhales) "Is this... I, this is... how can this be?" It, it's just... I don't know, it was just un- it's just, the whole thing's kind of crazy. It's, it's, it's amazing.

  21. 1:01:44 – 1:02:33

    Was There an Anticlimax When Jimmy Got on SNL?

    1. JF

    2. SB

      Is there anti-climax?

    3. JF

      No.

    4. SB

      'Cause if you aim at that one goal and put it on a pedestal for that long in, in your life...

    5. JF

      No, it paid off. It was ex- everything was what I dreamt. It was crazy. Everything. Uh, the a- the announcer, "Jimmy Fallon," him saying my name, I was like, dreamt of it. He was really saying it, and I could watch him. I enjoyed every second of it, every bit. Uh, uh, the internet was happening at the time, and then people started getting, uh, sending me fan letters, and then, uh, d- webpages, and it was just like f- you start getting famous. And there's the New York City street I walked down not too long ago, being kind of afraid and intimidated. Now I'm walking, and people are going, "Jimmy!" Uh, you know, and, and it's, and it's cool, and you go, "Yeah."

    6. SB

      What weren't you prepared

  22. 1:02:33 – 1:05:39

    Struggles With Public Criticism

    1. SB

      for?

    2. JF

      exhales ] Getting rejection, uh, you know, getting your sketches cut, being told you're not funny, you know, haters. This is before Twitter and all that stuff, which is a different ballgame that I wasn't ready for either. But y- you think that it's just gonna be, "Oh, this is cool. Everyone will be great." But then y- there's people... N- not everyone's rooting for you. (laughs) You know, some people want you to fail. People's jobs are to take me down, you know, and the, and, and to put bad press out and stuff. It's just, that's their job, and that's, and then you're just like, "Oof, I didn't think it was..." I, I don't live in that world, I don't believe that it's real, but it kind of is real. And you go, "Oh, people are just gonna be mean." And you gotta, again, just toughen up and get through it, and just keep your head down and keep being funny, and just keep doing things and keep, keep being creative. And just, if you move that out, you realize that's not even real. That's not... It's in- it's real, but it's noise, and it's just, it doesn't affect you. Uh, you can only believe in yourself and, and know that you have to keep going, and if you keep scoring, that will show. Your work will show. That, that's stuff I wasn't prepared for, of, of dealing with th- overcoming that, you know?

    3. SB

      Overcoming that?

    4. JF

      Ye- yeah. Overcoming, like, hating on you or, or t- s- t- uh, you know, saying you're not good or something, or it's like y- you don't think that's gonna happen. But it, you know, it, it will if you're successful 'cause someone'll be like, uh, uh, you know, uh, someone's not gonna like you, no matter what.

    5. SB

      As someone that's always trying to please, is that the antithesis of pleasing for, for, for one's brain who is orientated towards making people happy?

    6. JF

      It's the worst (laughs) . Yes, it is the absolute worst. You're, uh, I hate it. I, I want everyone to like me. Like, I can't, can't stand it. I go, "Oh my gosh, what can I do to make you like me?" I, I, th- I think the answer is you can't. You can't make everyone like you. You just, you have to do what you do, and do the best that you can at what you do, and be happy with yourself.

    7. SB

      I mean, like, what's the, what's the alternative? The alternative is you, you quit, you-

    8. JF

      Uh, yeah, you quit, or you-

    9. SB

      ... you change.

    10. JF

      ... you change you to be, I guess, what the person who hates you likes?

    11. SB

      But someone else will just hate that. (laughs)

    12. JF

      Then someone... Yeah, the original people-

    13. SB

      (laughs)

    14. JF

      ... will, will hate that, that you changed, and you go, "Oh yeah." I mean, I, I-

    15. SB

      And then you'll hate yourself for- (laughs)

    16. JF

      Mm, yeah. I mean, there's... I just, I, I love music, but I remember, like, I loved the Beastie Boys, um, growing up, but there's that one line Mike D says, like, um, "Be true to yourself and you will never fall." And it's, like, kind of is the move. Just be, that's... Be true to yourself. Then there's no... Everyone can say whatever they want, and it's like, "That's who I am."

  23. 1:05:39 – 1:09:32

    How Did Jimmy Cope With Fame?

    1. JF

    2. SB

      How did you cope with that stardom, being thrust into public spotlight? You're getting feedback from everywhere. You're getting the good, the bad, the ugly. You're someone that wants to please. Do you, did you seek any professional help? Did you get any support?

    3. JF

      No. (laughs) No, I just kinda lived through it and go like, "Yeah, uh, I think I'll, uh, I'll figure it out," you know? I think fame was fun, you know? It's, it's cooler. It's cooler than cool. It's, like, wow, this is what I thought it would be. But it's also... At the end of the day, it's w- it, it's the work and the I- and the stuff that you do and the stuff that comes out of it where I'm most proud of, where I'm like, "Oh, I get to do this. I think this bit could be funny." You know? Like, I remember we had Mick Jagger on the show, and Lorne said, "Mick will do a sketch, if anyone has an idea," and I go, "I can do an idea where I'm, uh, the reflection of Mick Jagger in the mirror," and I'm like, "You know, w- why don't I shout out that way?" And Lorne goes, "Please don't do that. Absolutely please don't, please don't do that." He goes, "It's been done. The, uh, Marx Brothers have done it. Uh, it's just, uh, Lucille Ball has. It's just, it's been done. Don't, please don't do that." I go, "Okay." He goes, "But go pitch Mick ideas." I go, "I don't wanna pitch him ideas. I'm... You're the producer. I'm nervous. I don't wanna... I didn't know Mick Jagger..." He's like, "Just go in and pitch him your ideas." I go... So I wrote out, like...... 10 ideas. I'm like, "Uh, hey, Mick." He's like... he's very nice. And I, and I go, um, "You know, uh, I was thinking maybe me and you, uh, uh, I play, you play Keith and I'm you. And, you know, um, we work at a, you know, (laughs) Sunglass Hut or something like that." And he's like, "Yeah, no. Don't, don't really like that. I don't like that." And I go, "Uh, well, then I have this other idea, you know, where, you know, you and I work in an ice cream shop, but we're, you know..." Blah, blah, blah. And he's like, "Nah, nah. I don't really like that. Eh. I, I don't. No, I don't wanna do that." And I go, "All right, um," and I'm going down the list and the ideas are getting worse and worse. And I'm just like, "Oh my gosh." And then out of desperation, I go, "Or we could do something where you come in your dressing room and I'm your reflection in the mirror." And you're like, "What, why am I doing this show? I've done it in the '70s and done in the '80s. And what, why am I gonna do that? Why am I doing..." And he goes, "Oh, I like that."

    4. SB

      (laughs)

    5. JF

      And I go... (laughs) So, I go back to Lorne's office and I go, "Good news, bad news. Good news, Mick wants to do a sketch. Bad news is it's the mirror sketch." And he... so Lorne was like, "Okay, we'll do it." And, uh, we wrote it in a night, which had never been done, I don't think. When I was on the show, we wrote it on a Thursday night, rehearsed it once on Friday, and did the show on Saturday. And it worked. And it really worked. It was... it might be the... one of the best sketches I was ever in. And Mick was so happy that he, like, was so giddy, and he kinda shook my hand through the mirror, (laughs) which is funny 'cause we... I'm supposed to be his reflection. And it was just kind of cool. And I, I remember one of those things where I'm like, the room was shaking.

    6. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    7. JF

      And I go, "That's cool." Like, dude, that's beyond what I dreamt I, I could do. You know, being on Saturday Night Live was one dream, but now you, you're doing a sketch with one of your rock idols, you know, and, and scoring. And it's great, and it's really funny. And everyone's having a good time. Like, you really... like, but that's something. And it was, was... it wasn't meant to be. It wasn't written. It was all... just kind of happened last minute. And, you know, but those little moments all kind of add up. And you go, "Oh my gosh, this is so crazy that this is all happening."

    8. SB

      How is that? I was looking, before you arrived, at all the people you've interviewed going back more than a decade, and it's just everybody. It's like Floyd Mayweather to-

    9. JF

      (laughs) Yeah.

    10. SB

      You name... insert the name of the person who's at the top of an industry. You've sat with them, they've been on your show. I was thinking, like, how has that altered your perception of not just what fame is, but, like, what life is about? Because you've met the best of the

  24. 1:09:32 – 1:12:04

    How Meeting Influential People Changed Jimmy’s Perspective

    1. SB

      best, the top of the top, the richest of the rich, the most famous of the famous.

    2. JF

      I'm interested, you know, in, in people, whoever it may be, whether it's Bruce Springsteen or, you know, Angelina Jolie or something. You, you're talking to them, just going like, "Talk to me about this thing," or what? I, I don't know. It's like a... Also, with my show, I gotta jump right in. I have probably-

    3. SB

      Yeah.

    4. JF

      ... s- 10 minutes interview.

    5. SB

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    6. JF

      You know, which is... you gotta get in there fast. And you're like, I gotta make them comfortable.

    7. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    8. JF

      And know that I'm not gonna make them look bad. I just wanna talk to them and go like, "Hey, blah, blah, blah," or I'll make a thing, or I'll just say some joke, or I don't know what I'll do. And they'll be like, "Really?" And then they'll be themselves. And then you go, now it's flowing. And you go, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." And then you can get into the movie talk and, you know, you know, sell the product or whatever, you know, which is-

    9. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    10. JF

      ... whatever. But it's that first kind of five to seven minutes where you get in there, and then you start playing with them. And you start, like... If you can get a laugh out of Floyd Mayweather or somebody, it's cool.

    11. SB

      How do you make them feel comfortable? Is this... Uh, you must have something that you have learned about what it is that makes someone feel comfortable.

    12. JF

      I don't know. I don't have an exact recipe. Uh, I will tell you that I go in before the show to their dressing room to say hello before the show.

    13. SB

      Okay.

    14. JF

      Just to say hi.

    15. SB

      Okay.

    16. JF

      "How's it going?" Then I'll just talk to them... Sometimes I talk to them longer than the interview 'cause I'll... we'll get talking about something or life or some bit or s- you know, you know, their parents or something. You know, just get into real life talk. And by the time they come out, they feel like we've already talked.

    17. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    18. JF

      So it's less pressure. I think also after 16 years of talking to... I've seen everyone at their highest.

    19. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    20. JF

      I've seen everyone at their lowest. I've seen people date people they shouldn't date.

    21. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    22. JF

      I've seen people get married and have babies. And it's just really fun to watch. And it's fun to go back. And now e- even if I see these people once a year or twice a year, I feel like I know them a little bit. And you're like, "Oh yeah, Floyd, good to see you. What's up?" Or, "Mick," you know, you know, "How's it going? How's, you know, how's your kids?" You know, we can just talk.

    23. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    24. JF

      And we're caught up, and then you're like, "Oh yeah." And it kind of feels like... maybe it doesn't to them, but to me it's, it's, it feels like I just saw them yesterday and that we're... You know, even though it's probably... I haven't seen them in a year. It feels like I just saw you. You go, "Oh yeah."

  25. 1:12:04 – 1:13:56

    How to Never Get Bored of Hosting a Show

    1. JF

    2. SB

      How do you stop it from getting old? And I say this because I am... obviously I've done... been doing this podcast now really for about four years. That's really, I consider the starting point when we started on YouTube. And I wonder what I've got to do to make sure that I never get bored of doing this.

    3. JF

      I don't think you ever will. There's just so many interesting people.

    4. SB

      Yeah.

    5. JF

      There's so many people in this world. And it's, it, it doesn't end. I mean, four years, I'm trying to think of where that was. That was round at the end of late night for me. I mean, you're just... you're doing all the things. You're, you're just expanding. I mean, but you're working hard.

    6. SB

      Yeah.

    7. JF

      I mean, you're, you're trying. I think just keep trying. If you stop trying, you get boring tomorrow.

    8. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    9. JF

      But here you are in New York with 10 cameras.

    10. SB

      (laughs)

    11. JF

      I mean, you're not in London. You're not in your kitchen. This is fake.

    12. SB

      Don't, don't break the illusion for once. (laughs)

    13. JF

      This is fake. This wall's not real.

    14. SB

      (laughs)

    15. JF

      This is not... this is... there's a light here. This is...... all fake. This is all a fake thing.

    16. SB

      (laughs)

    17. JF

      This is how, this is how you don't make it old. You don't, you have to work.

    18. SB

      (laughs)

    19. JF

      This is all, nothing here is real.

    20. SB

      (laughs)

    21. JF

      This is all a studio. But that's how you make it not-

    22. SB

      This is my kitchen.

    23. JF

      ... get old. This is, yeah.

    24. SB

      (laughs)

    25. JF

      But this is, I think how you make it, uh, uh, e- exciting is, you, you gotta put the work in. Don't get tired. You gotta show up.

    26. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    27. JF

      And you g- you always gotta show up and you gotta be there, and you gotta be there for your f- uh, audience. And you do that. You, you show up. You, you, you, you do all the stuff. I mean, y- you have to. And that's like you said, it's kind of a seven days a week thing, but it's, every day you go, "What can I do? What can I do? What can I do?" It just becomes part of your life. It's brushing your teeth. It's like, "Oh, yeah, I guess brushing your teeth, someone at one point told me I had to do that."

Episode duration: 1:39:29

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