Jürgen Klopp: Why treating people equally fails as a leader

1. 0:00 – 2:47

   Intro

   1. JKJürgen Klopp0:00

      (instrumental music plays) It was an intense time. We had to win football games, but all the rest was on my plate as well. I need a break, and you cannot do that in a business. You cannot say, "Give me a year. See you later."

   2. SBSteven Bartlett0:11

      So it begs the question: Do you think you could ever go back and manage Liverpool again? (dramatic music plays)

   3. JKJürgen Klopp0:18

      It's possible.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett0:19

      So what would it take?

   5. JKJürgen Klopp0:22

      (sighs)

   6. SBSteven Bartlett0:23

      Jürgen, you changed a club, you changed the city. You arrived at a time when clubs were in a period of dysfunction to bring that club back to its glory, and you did that over and over and over again. How?

   7. JKJürgen Klopp0:33

      To win in a very decisive moment, you have to be the best team. And to be the best team, everybody has to buy into that team and walk through fire together.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett0:43

      How do I get people to walk through fire?

   9. JKJürgen Klopp0:45

      I better go back to the start. Growing up, my mom was very caring. She loved people. And my dad had expectations. The problem was I was absolutely useless in most of the things, even with football. My teammates were better than me, and I thought, "I only can get on that level if from the first until last minute, I was a warrior on the pitch." But it made me the guy I am today. And so my team plays a little bit more like a heavy metal band, because you have 90 minutes, and there's no guarantee to get anything. But the only chance to get something is to give your all. So you want to have the maximum success? Don't waste time with holding back.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett1:21

       I want to know why Manchester United didn't (laughs) pursue you.

   11. JKJürgen Klopp1:23

       No, they, they tried.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett1:24

       Okay.

   13. JKJürgen Klopp1:24

       But there are some reasons in that conversation which I didn't like.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett1:28

       Arne Slot coming in after you and didn't change much.

   15. JKJürgen Klopp1:30

       That's super smart, not changing much, and all of a sudden, you win the league by some distance.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett1:35

       But this year, Liverpool have spent, what, 450 odd million. You never had a transfer window like that.

   17. JKJürgen Klopp1:39

       Nobody ever told me that it's possible that we can spend that.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett1:43

       You seem to always be successful. How does someone succeed you?

   19. JKJürgen Klopp1:47

       You want to be able to become the best team in England? You need to. (dramatic music plays)

   20. SBSteven Bartlett1:57

       (instrumental music plays) I see messages all the time in the comments section that some of you didn't realize you didn't subscribe. So if you could do me a favor and double-check if you're a subscriber to this channel, that would be tremendously appreciated. It's the simple, it's the free thing that anybody that watches this show frequently can do to help us here to keep everything going and this show in the trajectory it's on. So please do double-check if you've subscribed, and, uh, thank you so much, because in a strange way, you are ... You're part of our history, and you're on this journey with us, and I appreciate you for that. So yeah, thank you. (instrumental music plays) Jürgen, to understand you and the man and the anomaly that you went on to be in your career, and still are, what do I need to understand about your very earliest context, where you came from? And how ... Can you point out to me how that very early context

2. 2:47 – 4:15

   Your Early Context

   1. SBSteven Bartlett2:47

      created the person you are today and that everybody knows you to be?

   2. JKJürgen Klopp2:52

      I think we all are who we are because the environment we, we grew up. My dad was a salesman, and my mom come from a family, uh, my grandpa had a brewery, and she worked there, blah, blah, blah, and all these kind of things, so. But her only purpose was her kids. She loved me more than her, her own life, definitely. And my dad had expectations. He loved me as well, but he had expectations where my mom didn't. So my mom was just happy that I was there, and my dad had always something, um, where he was not really happy with. And all the things my dad wanted me to do, I love doing. So he wanted me to, to, to, to be a sports guy, each sport, tennis, skiing, football. That was his life. So he wanted that his son is good at that, and I loved doing it. If I would have been, I don't know, sitting at home and, and drawing or whatever, he would every day take me out and say, "Go outside and, and, and play something." But then, pretty quick, when I became better, it was never good enough. And it was always, he always ... So that was the process. So that's how I was brought up. That's him. That's definitely him. (laughs) Yeah. Can I keep these pictures?

   3. SBSteven Bartlett4:06

      Of course, you can keep.

   4. JKJürgen Klopp4:06

      That's good. That's good.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett4:07

      Yeah.

   6. JKJürgen Klopp4:07

      Because I have them, uh, but I'm not sure where. Yeah, exactly. Good-looking guy, huh?

3. 4:15 – 7:24

   Was Your Father a Tough Man?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett4:15

      Was he a tough, tough man?

   2. JKJürgen Klopp4:17

      Yeah. I, it's not long ago. I never, I never got hit by whatever, never, never, never. He was just, he wanted to, to bring the best out of me. I think that was what he wanted. Tough in a way, yeah? How people were brought up in, in that time, probably, but not tough endless, that you thought, "I, I don't want to have to do anything with him." No, no, no. I loved him to bits, and he loved me. He was very proud, but never s- never said it and these kind of things. So it was ... He was a good guy, a really good guy. But with his son, he wanted him to be ambitious and was a bit afraid that I might be not ambitious enough, so.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett4:56

      Competitive man, I hear.

   4. JKJürgen Klopp4:57

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett4:58

      So I've been reading about stories of, um, him racing you on ski slopes and-

   6. JKJürgen Klopp5:03

      (laughs)

   7. SBSteven Bartlett5:03

      ... in sprint races and never letting you win.

   8. JKJürgen Klopp5:06

      It's true. Who knows if it was right? Probably it was right. I, I don't know. It was not nice. In a way, when you tell the story, it's like, "My God, come on. Let the poor boy win," or whatever, but he had no chance. It's just you stand on the touchline, and you run to the halfway line.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett5:21

      And when you, and when you look back over the, the course of your career, are there moments where you have flashback to lessons that he taught you or principles or values that he taught you, that you think, "Gosh, I got that from my dad"?

   10. JKJürgen Klopp5:32

       The one skill I, I realized that my dad had, without knowing at that time, it was a skill, he could speak publicly. You don't know that you have that, but I have it. Today, I know it. I, I don't care if a camera is in my face or whatever. I say what I have to say in that moment, um, without being too worried what might people think about it. If I'm convinced it's right, then I, I say it. Talking in public is not a problem. It's probably from him. My love for people...... unintentionally, it, it is from my mom. So this mix of a very confident and a very caring, very confident dad and very caring mom, uh, is where I was brought up in the middle of it.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett6:18

       And you wanted to be a doctor before, before then? So you were aiming to be a doctor. That didn't work out.

   12. JKJürgen Klopp6:23

       Yeah. That's true.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett6:24

       Why? Why, why a doctor?

   14. JKJürgen Klopp6:26

       It's ... uh, (laughs) I don't-

   15. SBSteven Bartlett6:27

       (laughs)

   16. JKJürgen Klopp6:27

       No, it was always, it was something I wanted to do. So in all this wonderful upbringing, it was pretty clear that money is, uh, an issue. Not in a sense that we didn't have enough. All of us had kind of enough, but I remember discussions, bad discussions about money. Arguments, if you want. Who spent that? Who spent that? I was the little one that just sat around and listened to it. But there was a moment in my life when I, when I realized I have to earn a lot of money, then I can sort it all. I wanted to earn money to not having these kind of discussions (breathes deeply) with my wife or with the kids or whatever. So it grew as a, as a, as a thought. When you are a young man and you think what could you do with life, and for me, it was clear I cannot earn my money with football, because in my mind, I wasn't good enough. And then I got surprised by some people that thought, "Oh, there's something-"

   17. SBSteven Bartlett7:22

       Yeah.

   18. JKJürgen Klopp7:22

       "... um, that could be interesting."

4. 7:24 – 8:59

   The Start of Your Football Career

   1. JKJürgen Klopp7:24

   2. SBSteven Bartlett7:24

      What did they see in you as a football player? What was it that they-

   3. JKJürgen Klopp7:28

      (laughs)

   4. SBSteven Bartlett7:29

      ... they saw in you as a young man? 'Cause I've got these wonderful photos of you-

   5. JKJürgen Klopp7:32

      (laughs)

   6. SBSteven Bartlett7:33

      ... as a young player and-

   7. JKJürgen Klopp7:34

      Oh my god. So in my village, I was the best player, in my village. So I scored the goals, I was the fastest, all this kind... This physical talent. I was really fast. Later on, when I studied sports science, I could jump far, I could jump high, all these kind of things. So it was a physical talent. I was literally surprised by the approach from, from professional football clubs. I didn't think, "Oh, who's coming?" So it was like, uh, the question was, "Are you number seven from the game before?" I go, "Yeah." "Oh, come on. Let's have a chat." "Do you want to come to Frankfurt?" That was the question. It was before that.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett8:10

      Amazing.

   9. JKJürgen Klopp8:10

      Was '80, '87.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett8:13

       And you were 20 years old at the time when you went to Frankfurt?

   11. JKJürgen Klopp8:16

       Yeah.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett8:17

       Well, I mean, a lot happens in your 20th year of life.

   13. JKJürgen Klopp8:19

       Yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett8:20

       A lot happens.

   15. JKJürgen Klopp8:20

       That was a change. Wow. Yeah, I came to Frankfurt. I, it didn't take long that I met Marc's mom. (laughs)

   16. SBSteven Bartlett8:31

       Yeah. Your son's mom, yeah.

   17. JKJürgen Klopp8:32

       Yeah, exactly. And then, um, she got pregnant and, um, December '88, I became a father.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett8:42

       Were you scared? 20 years old, become a father.

   19. JKJürgen Klopp8:45

       Massively. When I heard she's pregnant, I was f- I wanted to run away, go, "Oh God, it's not me." (laughs)

   20. SBSteven Bartlett8:52

       (laughs)

   21. JKJürgen Klopp8:52

       Yeah. So the moment when I, when I got aware of the fact that I will be a dad, I was really scared. The

5. 8:59 – 11:05

   Becoming a Father

   1. JKJürgen Klopp8:59

      night, 13th December, of December 1988, when Marc was born, was the night when I became an adult and the night who changed my life in the right direction. From that moment on, I was always more an adult than all the other people in the, in my age group. So they were at the university, they were at parties, I couldn't go. They went on holiday, I couldn't. I played football, low wages, third division Germany, had two other jobs, one in the morning, (laughs) one at night, um, and, and playing semi-professional football. That taught me the discipline I didn't have to learn at home because I had no, no jobs to do in the house. So I got it a bit later, but, um, it made me the guy I am today.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett9:50

      Because of that experience, when you became a, a manager yourself, did that become a bit of a ref- personal reference point to understand the individuals that you were managing? Because if you were managing a 21-year-old dad versus a, a 21-year-old that didn't have kids, d- did you understand them to be different?

   3. JKJürgen Klopp10:11

      Mm-hmm.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett10:12

      One is, in your, you know, in your own words, one is potentially a, a man and an adult-

   5. JKJürgen Klopp10:16

      Yeah.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett10:16

      ... and one doesn't know what that is yet?

   7. JKJürgen Klopp10:17

      Yes, of course. I, I, I notice, but I say I like people, and I'm super curious. Everybody has a story to tell, so I wanna hear it.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett10:24

      I think, I think I asked that question in part 'cause I heard stories that Sir Alex Ferguson would prefer players who had a girlfriend (laughs) -

   9. JKJürgen Klopp10:31

      Yeah.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett10:31

       ... or a wife and kids.

   11. JKJürgen Klopp10:33

       Yeah.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett10:34

       And I was, I was wondering if there's any truth to that, if they have a different stability or...

   13. JKJürgen Klopp10:38

       Oh, it's probably, yeah. There are tw- couple of problems. You can, you can have a, a great partner, married or not, and then everything is fine. If it's the wrong partner, m- it's not great. You have no partner, not great for some, and you have too many, it's not great. So there are so many things in life. So I de- ever, never, I never thought about that. I heard about it. Uh, uh, the coach of Germany, very su- successful, uh, manager, Otto Rehhagel, I love him to bits, fantastic guy.

6. 11:05 – 15:13

   Players Acting Differently With Partners

   1. JKJürgen Klopp11:05

      He had as well, he, I think he said it once as well that he wants, um, married players because they go home and stuff like this, yeah. Uh, that's not, that's one part of, of the personality but not the overwhelming or the, the most decisive or whatever. So it's like, and you need on the, football is a football game. You need the cheeky pa- the, the cheeky ones as well. So you need them. The, the one who under- the street smart you need as well. They get out of situations in life and on the pitch, stuff like this. So it's a mix of everything. That's what I loved about football teams. I, I treated them, let me say, 50% of the time completely the same, and 50%, what he needs, what he needs, what he needs. But in front of the other team- of their teammates. So people, players came to me, "Why do you, um, treat me like that? You would've ne- would never say that to him." No, because he's from Argentina, grew up without a window, and you are from Munich, and everything was fine. You want me to treat you like him? Really?... to bring all these people from different areas in the world together, you cannot expect that they all tick the same way. It's just not possible. Growing up in Germany is obviously different to growing up in Senegal. It is different. So, but then we come together in our dressing room and then everybody says, "Oh, this is the rule for all of you." And, yeah, be on time, of course, for all, easy. But then all the others start... (laughs) Come on, calm down. You want a, want a team of, um, a football team full of different skillsets, full of different talent, full of different personality. You want that because that's what you need. That's what makes you unpredictable. But then you put just one, I don't know, helmet over it and say, "So, that's for all of you. That's how we go." There are moments in the game where they have to act like this. In all the other, in all the other moments, they have to be themselves, so treat them like that.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett13:06

      This is one of the most sh- shocking, counterintuitive, um, ideas that I've, that I, that I heard from players that... uh, with other managers, specifically 'cause I've just interviewed so many of Sir Alex Ferguson's former players. One of the shocking things they all said was that he treated people differently, and to hear you say the same thing as well, it, it, it really is the opposite of what you hear in business. In business, you hear that you have to be a consistent leader, that you have to be consistent, treat people the same. Um, but in the world of football, people like you tell me that's not true.

   3. JKJürgen Klopp13:38

      Actually, I think in business, in life it's the same. So, to lead, that's one, number one thing, you lead yourself. So, that's the first one. Morn- in the morning, you stand up. You have to kick your own butt and say, "Come on. It's not the greatest day, but anyhow, we go." And then it, then the people you lead, you need to understand to do it properly. So now, that means you, you, you talk to them. You listen to them. You ask them, "Where are you from? What's your background? What are we doing here and there?" Blah, blah. "And why did you do that?" And stuff like this. So it means it's already, in that conversation, it's clear he's different to the other guy. It's not about the rules, like punctuality, dah, dah, dah. Early in, late out. Not about these kind of things, but how can we get the best out of people if we treat them all the same? It's, it's crazy. It's in business... I, I don't think it is like that, but I've nev- I only worked in this football business, or maybe it's just (laughs) working here. I cannot see that. For me, it's super important that you really pick the individual from where it stands, not from where you want it to be. No. Actually, where it actually is.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett14:41

      Can you give me an example that I would know of two people that you treated differently and why you made the decision to treat them differently based on their origin?

   5. JKJürgen Klopp14:51

      So, you have a young player as an example. So you, you... Trent Alexander-Arnold comes up to the first team. So, and then you c- and James Milner is already, I don't know, 31 or whatever, however he was that time. So you, so James makes clear, first and foremost, that Trent doesn't go crazy. So because he sorts all these kind of things, but there are so many things by...

7. 15:13 – 19:27

   Times You Treated Players Differently

   1. JKJürgen Klopp15:13

      uh, just as an example. But James doesn't have to do this and that because, you know, he is doing it anyway. So for, for Trent, you still have to educate the boy. This example, which you probably didn't think of, but it explains wh- how, how different they are. They're different age groups. One is 16 or 17, and the other one is 33. So that shows already that it's not possible.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett15:31

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JKJürgen Klopp15:32

      So you are talking about the rules in football, so everybody has to work hard, everybody has to do it. In my kit, everybody has to defend the shit out of the opposition team. So that, that's everybody has to buy into that. There's no, no, no, no... I always said, "If, if you are not Lionel Messi, you have to defend."

   4. SBSteven Bartlett15:54

      (laughs)

   5. JKJürgen Klopp15:54

      You have, you have to defend. So because they never had Lionel Messi, so they all had to defend. For example, everybody has to do that. But then to get there, that, that, that they, that they really grow together as a group. In a group, everybody accepts that they are different. Otherwise we are, I don't know, an army. And, and they are different, but it's not, I mean, just because we wear the same shirt. We have all our own qualities. So and to get... to bring them to life or, or let them shine, yeah, you have to be... to have to get treated in a right way. And that's what, what I love to figure out. How is that, how is that possible? That was the conversations I had, the conversation with players during a season. Of course there were football talks, but we had already enough meetings. The m- the m- the most important conversations were the private conversations. Why are... So when, when the player's not training well, could be, could, that he just is not ready for training. Had a drink last night, didn't sleep enough. Blah, blah. Or, you ask. So that's all what you think. "Uh, he looks like he didn't sleep enough." Blah, blah, blah. So bring him in, ask him, "What's going on?" And you will be surprised. Most of the time, they either slept enough or didn't sleep enough for the right reason because something happened and nobody could sleep. Uh, they had no drink, blah, blah, blah, but they lost focus right now because massive problems at home. You... without asking, you will never find out. So here's one guy with problem. Here's another guy, he's flying. Don't treat them the same.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett17:25

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JKJürgen Klopp17:25

      The one needs more support and the other one you need to bring down a little bit. So all this kind of... That's how you work with people. In the end, what you want is that... the job of a leader is to make the target, the aim, the final destination, whatever, that clear, like the sun, that everybody's automatically going there and you don't have to push them every day and say, "By the way, there's the sun. L- let's run there." So that they, that they know it. On the way there, you support them in different, in different ways. It's not so important what I want to say in a moment of anger or whatever. It happens. Emotion do that to us, especially around a football game. If you shout something, "Did I really say that? Did I? Did I?" Ah, I did. But it's not so important in a talk, conversation with people, they... which depend on you, you are responsible for. It's not so important what you say. It's much more important what they need to hear.... it's not them, telling them what they want to hear, no, what they need to hear to deal with their situation. So, that's what leadership means. Not just telling them off for whatever, "That doesn't work, that doesn't work." Try to understand why. And that was, uh, I, I love that part in my job and I still do that, if you want, um, right now. Not with world-class players all the time, or coaches, sporting directors, whatever. They're all young, um, younger than me at least. And, um, that's how I understand my role and have stood my role.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett18:53

      Were there certain players on your team that you felt you could be tougher with, and others that you felt you could never really be tough with because that would make, that would hurt their performance? I'm reflecting-

   9. JKJürgen Klopp19:06

      Uh, of, of course.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett19:07

       Yeah?

   11. JKJürgen Klopp19:07

       Of course. You have, um, Sadio Mane and, and, and Mo Salah are two top examples. So, in the end, uh, not a lot of people who saw it coming, we knew they are great. We knew they are massive talents, they have fantastic potential, but they were not who they became later on, uh,

8. 19:27 – 23:00

   Players You Could Be Tougher With

   1. JKJürgen Klopp19:27

      in that time. It's not that they came to Liverpool and said, "Boss, just wanna tell you, I defend anyway so we don't have to talk about that, just explain me how we do." And we obviously, to, to be successful as a football team, you have to organize a football team, to get stability. To get stability, you need to find a way to defend properly and together. If you have that, based on that, they can start flying. Then we, then let's talk about the football part. So, and now they're obviously no defenders, but we were famous for our pressing and counter-pressing, so I talked a lot to them. And it was, and the, the way we spoke about it was just 100% clear. You wanna win more often than not, you wanna have the maximum success, you wanna be able to become the best team in England, at, at one point? Yeah? Okay, then do that. Come on. So, agreement, and then from there, we went on. But then with years, and not because they changed or whatever, here a little bit less, there a little bit less, and y- I have to decide, do I go for them like I would go for a young boy playing in that position? And say, "Come on, turn, run, fight, jump," and take them off in a moment or what? No, of course not. You don't do that in that moment. It's a, it's a story in the newspaper. We had this one argument, I think, with Mo at West Ham at the sideline when he didn't start, and I brought him on, and he was not happy. The problem, our problems then are always in public.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett20:53

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JKJürgen Klopp20:53

      It was not a real big thing, but in the moment, we didn't agree, definitely. So, um, how do you deal with that the next day? Like, um, I think I can say, um, we have a very good relationship today, um, even though on that day it didn't look like. (laughs)

   4. SBSteven Bartlett21:10

      (laughs)

   5. JKJürgen Klopp21:10

      Um, and that's all the things. So, you learn, you try to do it the right way, you try to show the players respect, but at one point it's never enough, and you have to accept that as well because the players, th- they grow, they get bigger and bigger and bigger. And at one point, you hear years later, "He never spoke to me." So, whatever, another player from wherever says about a former coach, about me, about Jose Mourinho, "He never spoke to me." I think, oh, no, we spoke a lot. You just can't remember and we didn't speak what you wanted. (laughs)

   6. SBSteven Bartlett21:44

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JKJürgen Klopp21:44

      Or we didn't, we, I didn't tell you what you wanted to hear, so you can never make it 100% right. But you can only do as good as you, a- as is possible for you. And that's what I tried all the time, to create a relationship where even when we had arguments, we always found a way out, as me, player, and it never, um, got carried into the team, that I lost respect, they lost respect for me because I acted that way. So, we always stayed together. We always find a way that they understood, okay, it's really important that we get through this, that they sort it, the boss sorts it with him or the boss sorts it with us, that we can go from here again.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett22:29

      From a very young age, one of the things I found really surprising is in, as I was going through all of these football teams you played in as a young man, it appeared that you were always the captain. Repeatedly, uh, assigned to be the captain. And I wondered why. What was it that you were doing from a very young age that meant all of your coaches back then asked you to be captain of the team?

   9. JKJürgen Klopp22:47

      (laughs) I have no clue. The coach I learned the most of, Wolfgang Frank, um, when he came back to Mainz, he was at Mainz, a very successful spell, left, and then we were in trouble again, he came back, and

9. 23:00 – 25:33

   Always Being the Captain Starting Out

   1. JKJürgen Klopp23:00

      I was the captain. And we had a very experienced player from a first division team coming to Mainz in the second division, Lars Schmidt was his name. So, and, and Wolfgang said, "Jürgen, can we talk?" "Yeah, of course." "Jürgen, I wanna make Lars the captain." "Oh, yeah. Good." "So, then you are not captain anymore." "Yeah. I know." So, it was exactly like that. It meant nothing to me. So, my role was not, I was a leader in the team, not on purpose. I was on the pitch an aggressive leader, which I didn't like, so heart rate above 140. I lost it very often in a very, very not good way. So, really aggressive talk, shouting at everybody and, you know, all that. Really, it was, I had to, very often, I had to apologize to my teammates.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett23:52

      Where did that come from? Because you're-

   3. JKJürgen Klopp23:54

      I don't, I don't know.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett23:55

      ... there's a real dichotomy with you because you're such a sweet, kind guy. You have your mother in you in terms of the empathy and the love of people. But then there's this other-

   5. JKJürgen Klopp24:06

      Yeah.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett24:06

      ... explosive part.

   7. JKJürgen Klopp24:07

      Uh, I didn't like it at all. And I was afraid when I stopped playing that it, that I'd take it over. So, I was emotional and it was, uh, had moments where I lost it with referees and stuff like that. But generally, again, I'm, I was really, I'm a, I'm a very calm person.... so people think because I'm, probably, I think I'm a motivator or whatever I do, get up in the morning and come in the dressing room and say, everybody, "Come on, boys, today we go again." And not at all. I mean, it happens from time to time, but not that often. No, I have no explanation for it. If I would have had an explanat- it was a little bit, I knew I'm not good enough actually. My, my teammates were better than me, and I thought, "I only can get on that level if I squeeze everything out on a... from an aggressive point of view." Stuff like this. So that was a bit my explanation because they, they are so much better, but if I calm down and want to play cool football, yeah, I'm out.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett25:05

      You eventually become the manager of Mines?

   9. JKJürgen Klopp25:07

      Yeah.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett25:08

       You're my age when you get that job and the f- the former manager's been sacked. The club have never gotten to the Bundesliga, the, the, the first division in Germany. You don't have experience managing a club of this size or scale previously. The chairman comes to you, the owner comes to you and says, "They want you to do the job." Why did they want you to do the job?

   11. JKJürgen Klopp25:30

       Because they didn't find anybody else in the sho- in the

10. 25:33 – 30:06

    Becoming a Manager

    1. JKJürgen Klopp25:33

       short period of time. So we played Sunday and the next game was on Wednesday. The idea was just to do that game. So the, the, the whole story is that Eckhard Grauzone, um, the manager at that time, he, we, we lost a game on Sunday and we had a little camp, a crisis camp, let me say, because on Wednesday was another very important game we had to play. So he took us to a hotel that we stay there, have two good sessions, and then we go for this very, very important and maybe decisive game. And at night we have a meeting (laughs) , we have a meeting, uh, with all the players and he said, "So, gentlemen, I want, I wanna ask one question. Are you, do you still trust me? Are you still behind me? Um, I don't want to answer now. I order beer for all of you. I go out half an hour, I come back and you tell me." So he goes out (laughs) waitress brings the beer in. We sit there, look at each other and think, "Huh?" And discuss a little bit, and I was not captain that time. Yeah, I was not the captain. So, but then it's like that (laughs) that, uh, the decision's no.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett26:38

       What?

    3. JKJürgen Klopp26:38

       Yeah. He asked, "Why? You ask?" Everybody, "Yeah, no." So and it's like-

    4. SBSteven Bartlett26:43

       Everyone said that?

    5. JKJürgen Klopp26:43

       ... there is now, we have a discussion. Yeah. The majority, some people, some players didn't speak, but the ma- it was clear I- if you ask, the answer is no. So it's like that, I'm not captain, but the captain says, "Kloppo, you tell him." "I tell him? Why?" (laughs) Oh, okay. But he comes in, he comes in and I said, "And?" And he said, "Actually, no." And he was shocked. He was really shocked. It was like he didn't expect this. It's more like a, a little thing to do. And then we say, "Yes, we go through that together," something like that. But we said no. (laughs)

    6. SBSteven Bartlett27:22

       Why?

    7. JKJürgen Klopp27:23

       Because he was not the right person. He was-

    8. SBSteven Bartlett27:24

       Why?

    9. JKJürgen Klopp27:25

       Ki- because he, we, we played bad and we, we, he was... (sighs) Ach, I love Eckhard Grauzone, but that time for that team was really, he was just not the right coach. That can happen. M- doesn't say anything about you, but we did the wrong training, wrong lineups, wrong tactics, wrong everything. So that's how things go bad in the wrong direction. But in that time, and we had, no, me, that time and we didn't have to make the decision yet who can take over or whatever. We just could say no. And we, we, we, he could have said, "Okay, I will prove you wrong or whatever." But he ran out and said, "Tomorrow morning, nine o'clock training."

    10. SBSteven Bartlett28:01

        Oh.

    11. JKJürgen Klopp28:02

        "Okay." And then he wanted to do a press conference where he t- would, wanted to tell the public that he kicks out all the experienced players and starts now the rest of the season and plays only the young kids. Though I was one of the old players. (laughs) I was 33. Um, but I didn't know that that should happen. So he called the sporting director. "We need a press conference and I want to talk to them and tell them we change everything." And the sporting director says, "Yeah, we do a press conference, but the subject will be we sack you." "Okay, so done." And now they didn't have a coach. So, and then they called me and for that game, "Can you do it?" And I said, "Yeah, yeah, I can do it." And I did it. And we won the game and they didn't find a, a manager. So we had Sunday and other games and we won, the first game we won 1-nil, the second game we won 3-1. Yeah. From the first seven games we won six and drew one. So, and we stayed in the league pretty comfortably. (laughs) Comfortably is incredible. We were a bunch of friends. I, they were all my friends and I was their boss. They had to tell me that I changed from now on in the coach's dressing room. "But, but, but what are you doing here? Here's the coaches' des- that's your office." "Okay." The first night, uh, we had a twin room.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett29:19

        Yeah.

    13. JKJürgen Klopp29:20

        So, and it got one more game to sleep there with my friend during company there in, in the same room. And then next day they all told me, "Oh, yeah, you have a, you get your own room, huh?" "Oh, okay." So, but all the rest, we were a real bunch of, of friends and they respected me from day, from the first second.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett29:38

        What was your approach going into that? You, you, you go from being a player to a manager of these boys. Like, what, what, what's in your mind? Are you thinking, "I'm just gonna let them do whatever they want to do. I'm gonna..."

    15. JKJürgen Klopp29:47

        Well, we had Wolfgang Frank, a very, very... the best, the best manager we all had when we were at Mines. He was an exceptional. Me at Mines, we were a football team who lost all the g- games when the other team had better players. I think sounds normal, but, you know, in football there's a way to, to win games anyway. We

11. 30:06 – 33:34

    What Was Your First Approach as Manager?

    1. JKJürgen Klopp30:06

       never had that. So then Wolfgang Frank comes in and implements four in the back, ball-orientated defending. And we did nothing else than that. And we changed overnight into the one opponent nobody wanted to play against. We were like machines. We were like machine, we are not great football, but we're like machines. There, there, there were games our goalkeeper didn't touch the ball once. We were just defending. It was new that time. So it was really for all of them. That means we all became believer in that. Then Wolfgang left and none of the other coaches could do that. None.... there was no connection to the coaches after Wolfgang.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett30:43

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JKJürgen Klopp30:44

       (inhales deeply) So I was one of the players who benefited massively from Wolfgang Frank, and now I arrived, and the only thing I did when I... there was a... The two sessions I had were both exactly about that, 4-4-2, ball-orientated movements, and we go for MSV Duisburg that time, they were third in the table. (inhales deeply) We go for them like nobody else, but I like these moments. I like to find a reason why it makes sense that why we give our absolute all in a moment like this, why we don't invest only the, the minimum, why I invest the maximum, why we would regret it if we don't do it, how better life is if we do it, how much more fun it is if we do it. I love, I love these moments, and probably something like that I told them, and from that moment on, nobody wanted to play against us anymore. So, like, we were like, wow, animals. It was great. It was a fantastic time. Same team, um, pretty much, uh, changed overnight.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett31:48

       So you fixed the defensive situation, the formation, and you also told the players in that dressing room a story of why we had to give this... give everything.

    5. JKJürgen Klopp31:58

       Mm-hmm. Showed u- They, they wrote us off, showed outside world, whatever you can do. Most of the time, it was real life, but that time... So in my meetings later on, I never prepared in a way that I wrote something down or whatever. (inhales deeply) Our life was preparation, what happening during the week with us in the world, our... That was preparation for a meeting. I never thought long about it, just remembered it, and when I ne- when I needed it, we spoke, I, I told the boys. (inhales deeply) But that time, they needed one person to believe in them, and I did. It was not that I had to convince myself, "Ah, you have to tell them now." Before that season, I told in an interview, "This is the best squad Mainz 05 ever had. It will be really difficult for me to play, but good for us that the team is so good." And then we were in a hopeless situation before I took over, so I... when I became the manager, I was the one who thought, "This team is incredible. Nobody knows it yet, but we will make sure in a few weeks they will have a sense at least."

    6. SBSteven Bartlett33:05

       How important did that prove to be, this idea of making sure that the players you have throughout your career had belief in themselves?

    7. JKJürgen Klopp33:13

       That's all. J- That's all. It's all about that. It's not football, it's life. You had no... When you started your podcast, you... people probably told you, "Well, that might be something for you." But you were not sure. And then with each little thing here and there, "Oh." How many people listened to your first podcast?

    8. SBSteven Bartlett33:32

       (laughs)

    9. JKJürgen Klopp33:32

       Don't even remember. No, not that bad. I think I

12. 33:34 – 38:51

    Believing in Yourself

    1. JKJürgen Klopp33:34

       read it somewhere.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett33:35

       Yeah. (laughs)

    3. JKJürgen Klopp33:35

       40?

    4. SBSteven Bartlett33:36

       Something around that.

    5. JKJürgen Klopp33:37

       Was under 100.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett33:38

       Yeah. Yeah.

    7. JKJürgen Klopp33:38

       So it's a start.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett33:40

       Yeah.

    9. JKJürgen Klopp33:40

       So it's a start, and it... and all the rest is if you want history, and that's always in life like that, that it's just give it a chance. Uh, of course, it makes sense you believe in yourself, but not everybody can do that. So if... But then if you meet somebody who helps you with that, who has a perspective, who can see something in you, yeah, then tell, tell them. Why you should keep it for yourself? "Oh my God, I think he's a talent, she's a talent," whatever. "Well, she's good at that, he's good at that." Yeah, but we don't tell each other, so p- where's the problem?

    10. SBSteven Bartlett34:13

        Did someone do that for you? T- told you that you should believe in yourself, they saw something in you?

    11. JKJürgen Klopp34:19

        Once I said I never struggled with confidence, but I don't know why. That's the truth. Uh, but it's true. I never (laughs) struggled with confidence. There's no reason for it. My two best friends in school were genius, and we sat together doing exactly the s- reading the same books, did the... invested the same amount of time. They had the best A levels in school, and I was far off that. So a normal reaction would be, "Poo, I'm a dump obviously." But I never thought that. And I don't really know why, why, why that happened. So, um, I took it how it was. I thought, "Oh, respect. You ob- You can remember all these things? Crazy. I can't." Yeah? I-

    12. SBSteven Bartlett34:59

        But you had lots of players that struggled with confidence.

    13. JKJürgen Klopp35:02

        Yeah, yeah. I tried to create a situation to make sure that the player... if, if they are not confident yet, they are confident. But, you know, there are moments when they lose it. Confidence is like, uh, perhaps once as a little flower, and constantly somebody steps on it. It's like that. "Oh," and then it's growing again, and, "Oh, now we are confident again," stuff like this. In football, it's really difficult because it's like you cannot play without making mistakes. So if a mistake costs you confidence, (inhales deeply) ah, that's a re- a real challenge. Um, but, but I try to-

    14. SBSteven Bartlett35:38

        Yeah.

    15. JKJürgen Klopp35:39

        ... "If you would believe as much in yourself as I do, that would be a start. But as long as you cannot do that, just trust me. So you are good." Because I don't work with... not with other players. I don't waste time. I don't... That's... One, and it's true, I don't. So I really, I really see something, and if I see it, I'm patient enough to work on it, um, much more patient than the public wants me to be. But of course, the, the, the idea is that, that one day I help you learn flying, but in the end, you have to fly yourself obviously. I cannot, I cannot do that for you. That's what it is, football. You have to perform alone. They cannot look at me, "Uh, what should I do?" And that's my job, is to prepare them as good, to make it... the education, the co- the co- c- coaching as, as wide as they just pick from it, that's the idea. But not too much as well. It's... Yeah. It obviously w- was a good time in my life doing all these kind of things. I, I, I worked with some of the best footballers in the world. Um...... really good time.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett36:49

        Do you sometimes have to lie in public to protect a player's confidence? I was won- I wonder this, because you see managers come out and say, "Oh, he can't play 'cause he's injured." Or whatever, and they, they say things. But I wonder sometimes if managers are protecting players because they're struggling or-

    17. JKJürgen Klopp37:05

        Yes, we protect players. I'm not sure I ever had to lie, to be 100% honest. I don't know. But we protect players. Super important. So, for me, super important. Um, he lacks confidence, that's in football obvious. You see that. You're running one-on-one on a goalie and you don't make it. You can see it's because you don't have confidence. That's, that's how it is. There's no... A lot of other reasons. It can be wind, weather, ball, opponent. It's there, but you do it once, you do it twice, three time. Yes, that's la- that's not good for the confidence of nobody. Having that in training, you, you have... The job is not to talk too much about it, just to give him a chance to get confidence back with the things you do in training, that it doesn't last forever, so... Um, the one thing you have to protect players from is public.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett37:51

        Mm-hmm.

    19. JKJürgen Klopp37:52

        Try to, because they are ruthless in moments, eh? They don't care until something happens or whatever. Supporters, sometimes I think we were really lucky with that. We created that bond between the supporters and the team that they were not angry. Disappointed, yes, but not angry in a way that, "I don't want to see them anymore." So that helped, but of course we have to protect them sometimes.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett38:17

        Do you-

    21. JKJürgen Klopp38:17

        We have to protect them sometimes from themselves as well, so that's the job.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett38:22

        Did you have to involve yourself much with social media usage of your team members, and did you, did you ever consider someone's social media usage when you were considering signing them to join the club? 'Cause I, I think this now as a Manchester United fan. I think some of... When some of our players are posting on social media, little indirect messages and little emojis and commenting things, I just think, "Oh, God, troublemaker."

    23. JKJürgen Klopp38:45

        (laughs) We had situations that players texted or, or, or posted something at

13. 38:51 – 41:24

    Considering Players' Social Media Usage

    1. JKJürgen Klopp38:51

       night and deleted it, but I still got aware of it.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett38:54

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JKJürgen Klopp38:54

       So, not that I read it, but people tell me, "Oh, last night, this and that happened." "When?" "Three o'clock." "Three o'clock? Oh, okay. What did he say?" "Ah, this and that." "Oh." What I do in these situations, even deleted, I go in the dressing room and they all ............................ "Last night, this and this happened. Uh, got deleted. I know what's there, but maybe you want to tell everybody?"

    4. SBSteven Bartlett39:19

       You would (laughs) ask them to say it in front of everybody?

    5. JKJürgen Klopp39:20

       Yeah.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett39:22

       (laughs)

    7. JKJürgen Klopp39:23

       Not nice, eh? No, no. The, the, the thing is I didn't, I don't go ............................ and tell him, "How can you write that?" Or whatever. So I say, "Come on. I, I... Somebody told me so I know it. Ah, not important really, but come on, tell the whole team what is, what you wanted to say." And then he start... (gasps) It's not great in that situation that, uh... I don't like to bring people in there, but I think that's a deserved punishment for something like that. But actually, the effect is nobody ever did it again because nobody wants to be in that situation in the dressing room, sitting there and be the one who has to explain something he did last night or whatever. I discuss individual problems, if it was okay, quite... in front of the team. If it was important for the team, "Yeah, come on, explain why you did that, why you went out that long, what happened in the last two hours." (laughs) Ay, ay, ay, ay, ay.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett40:24

       This photo here is of things going well for you at Mainz.

    9. JKJürgen Klopp40:29

       Before I had that, to get here we, we... That, that's... These are tears. The tears the year and two years before, but not for the same reason. So you probably know we didn't get promoted for a point and a goal. First a goal, first a point, then a goal, and then this happened. That was the first day when it really went well.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett40:50

        So this was the day that you-

    11. JKJürgen Klopp40:52

        Promoted.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett40:52

        ... Mainz promoted for the first time in their history-

    13. JKJürgen Klopp40:54

        Yeah.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett40:54

        ... in the Bundesliga?

    15. JKJürgen Klopp40:55

        Yeah. But before winning that, I, I learned how to lose. This is very important, I would say. I think that's, again, to learn even though you want to be as successful as somehow possible, you have to accept that from time to time you lose. And then keep... Then... When you then keep going, you have a good chance if you learn from it. A defeat is

14. 41:24 – 47:26

    Learning How to Lose

    1. JKJürgen Klopp41:24

       a defeat if you don't learn from it. If you learn from it, it's a very, very important information. And obviously in football we have a lot of opportunities to get beat and opportunities to, to learn from it, but this was the biggest relief in my life. Not happiness. That I was just pure relief. The pressure was mounting. I was crazy. Not only on myself, nobody, not from outside. I don't know even know what the outside world thought. But to make it happen that year, that was really special.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett42:00

       But it took two years of c-coming close-

    3. JKJürgen Klopp42:04

       Yeah, yeah.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett42:05

       ... and dealing with the disappointment.

    5. JKJürgen Klopp42:06

       Yeah, true.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett42:08

       When I spoke to Jamie Carragher, I, I asked Jamie Carragher actually this... earlier this morning. I said, I said to him, you know, what, what was he curious about with you and this is, like, actually what he said. He said there were so many near misses-

    7. JKJürgen Klopp42:19

       Yeah.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett42:19

       ... in your career, whether it was in the Champions League or I remember when you were head to head with Man City that, in that season and you were one point shy of winning, winning the league. And his question was, he's fascinated with how you, you were so good at dealing with the disappointment of near misses. Because sometimes near misses can cripple people. They can turn them into a downward spiral, it can be like the plant that got stood on. It can crush someone's confidence. But it appears through your career that near misses ended up being positive forces for you.

    9. JKJürgen Klopp42:54

       ... it's not that I knew that always, but, but made, we spoke about very early what, what made me the person I am. These people, of course, Mom, Dad, my faith as well. So, and I, I knew always that I'm not here to get everything. I am here to give everything. So, that doesn't help in a moment when you, when you, when you fail for a point. (laughs)

    10. NANarrator43:22

        (laughs)

    11. JKJürgen Klopp43:23

        But in the general understanding as a person, of course, it helps. So I'm not surprised that I fail. I don't, I don't think... I, I don't see myself as a constant winner in my, in my mind. I see myself as a constant trier. So I don't know constant winners, but there might be some out there. Um, but I, I just can't imagine a world where it would be like that. You know, all the, all the people running around there, the... All the, the happy people that win all the time. Nobody wins all the time. Uh, nobody does. So it's all about dealing with the things you want and not get, and then you want it more and, or, or not anymore or whatever. So the moments were not great, but I learned it here. Doing it that day changed the, the destiny of the club of Mainz 05. That's how it is. My destiny, the players' destiny. It changed everything. So we wanted it that hard, but we learned before, we have to try harder. And that's what I always took. If you don't get the result you want, try again and try harder.

    12. NANarrator44:32

        It was Christian that gave you that job, wasn't it?

    13. JKJürgen Klopp44:34

        Yeah. Mr. Heidel.

    14. NANarrator44:37

        Christian Heidel. I, um, I spoke to Christian Heidel.

    15. JKJürgen Klopp44:40

        (laughs)

    16. NANarrator44:41

        He made a-

    17. JKJürgen Klopp44:42

        His English is very funny, isn't it? (laughs)

    18. NANarrator44:43

        Yeah. I've had to, I've had to... I'm gonna translate it for the viewers, but I'm gonna actually play what he said to you in, in German-

    19. JKJürgen Klopp44:49

        Oh, of course.

    20. NANarrator44:49

        ... so you can hear it. Here we go.

    21. JKJürgen Klopp44:53

        Global.

    22. NANarrator44:55

        Yes, dear Global, we've known each other for exactly 35 years now. First, we were both players, then you subsequently became my esteemed coach. It all started in Mainz. You changed an entire club. You changed an entire city. Back then, we were promoted to the Bundesliga together, and today, Mainz has been in the Bundesliga for over 25 years. Back then, that was actually unimaginable. You go to Dortmund, change your club, change an entire city, and win every title there is to win. You move to Liverpool and the same thing happens for the third time. You change your club, you change your city. I don't think any coach before you has ever achieved that. And I'm always asked, "What makes Jurgen Klopp special?" To this day, he has simply remained a genuine person, always authentic, which is incredibly important. Apart from the fact that you are, of course, an outstanding expert, I hope we'll see each other again soon on our little shared island in Majorca. Um, and have a great day and lots of fun with your podcast.

    23. JKJürgen Klopp45:51

        Wow.

    24. NANarrator45:53

        Yeah. You know Global.

    25. JKJürgen Klopp45:54

        Yeah. Global, I told you.

    26. NANarrator45:57

        You changed the club, you changed the city.

    27. JKJürgen Klopp46:00

        Yeah.

    28. NANarrator46:00

        You did that over and over and over again. You went on and did that again at Dortmund, um, winning a, a huge range of awards there at a time when they were, weren't considered to be hopeful, and then you went off to Liverpool and did the same. And as you... I was reading about how when you traveled to Liverpool, there was 30,000 Liverpool fans watching your plane fly across, um-

    29. JKJürgen Klopp46:23

        (laughs) Yeah.

    30. NANarrator46:23

        ... the channel to Liverpool because they were all very excited. And you arrived at a time when they were in a, a period of dysfunction, kind of similar to where Manchester United are now, I guess.
15. 47:26 – 49:57

    First Impressions Upon Arriving at Liverpool

    1. JKJürgen Klopp47:26

       I didn't want to... It was not... We were on a family holiday in Lissabon with the, with the two boys, Ulla and I sitting there. Phone goes. My agent, why is he calling? Boys look at my face and I say...

    2. NANarrator47:39

       Liverpool.

    3. JKJürgen Klopp47:40

       And the b- both...

    4. NANarrator47:42

       Yes. The boys.

    5. JKJürgen Klopp47:43

       Yeah. And Ulla looks, what? What is it? And she didn't see my lips when, when I spoke. What? And realized, oh, her go... We start again. Before she knew, we will, we will, um, go to Liverpool.

    6. NANarrator47:54

       What did your boys react like that?

    7. JKJürgen Klopp47:56

       Oh, God. Come on. If you are not a Man United fan, you know what, what Liverpool means for, for two people. Um, and they, they, they, yeah, they loved it. We, we fell instantly in love with that club. So then-

    8. NANarrator48:08

       Did, did Manchester United ever call?

    9. JKJürgen Klopp48:10

       Yeah, yeah. I spoke to them. So in the year when Sir Alex retired, they, they spoke to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course they were interested at one point. So I was... That time, I would have been interested. I was a young... I w- I had a sensational team at Dortmund. My God. So somebody m- They probably thought, "M- what is he doing there?" Um, later on, I heard that my players, Hendo, Adam Lallana, James Milner, and so... That they flew to, to, to Real Madrid when we played the semifinal in the Champions League to watch us and wanted to see, "What is Dortmund doing? My God, what a football that is." I m- I mean, you cannot get bigger compliments. (laughs) It's really, it's really good.

    10. NANarrator48:51

        I wanna know why Manchester United didn't p- pursue you.

    11. JKJürgen Klopp48:53

        No, no, no. They, they tried. I, I... It was wrong time, wrong moment. It... For me, I was in con- I had a contract at Dortmund. I wouldn't have left, not really for, for, for nobody in that time. They just needed a manager, but the manager they wanted, in that case now, I was one of a few options, I think. Um-

    12. NANarrator49:10

        So it was you that turned down Manchester United, not Manchester United turning-

    13. SBSteven Bartlett49:14

        ... you down.

    14. JKJürgen Klopp49:15

        Yeah, that way. So I... Yeah, so-

    15. SBSteven Bartlett49:19

        We need someone else on negotiations. We need to-

    16. JKJürgen Klopp49:20

        Yeah. No, no, no. He's not there anymore, the guy who negotiated that, so, um, there are now other people in charge. That's long ago, long ago. So...

    17. SBSteven Bartlett49:28

        Wh- why wouldn't a guy like... Manchester United's often known as the biggest club in the world. Why wouldn't you take that job? Why didn't you take that job? Manchester United, the great Manchester United.

    18. JKJürgen Klopp49:38

        No, it's just difficult. We are now not in private, in a private space, so-

    19. SBSteven Bartlett49:41

        Okay.

    20. JKJürgen Klopp49:41

        ... but there are some reasons what the people in that conversation told me which I didn't like.

    21. SBSteven Bartlett49:47

        Oh, really?

    22. JKJürgen Klopp49:48

        So, United was that big. "We get all the players we want. We are like, we can do this. We get him, we get him, we get

16. 49:57 – 52:24

    Why Didn't You Join Manchester United?

    1. JKJürgen Klopp49:57

       him, we get him." And I was sitting there, "Uh-huh." So, and, and it was not my project. It didn't feel like my... It was the wrong time, but on top of that, it was not my project.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett50:07

       What would you have liked?

    3. JKJürgen Klopp50:07

       I didn't, I didn't, I didn't want to s- bring back, I don't know, Pogba. Paul is a sensational player. My God. But it, th- these things don't work usually, but these kind of things... Or Cristiano. My God, we all know that he's the best player or together with Messi, the best player in the world. So, but bringing back never helps. In that time, in 2013, it was obviously not about Cristiano (laughs) , maybe about Paulo, I'm not even sure, when... But, but I don't get the numbers together. But it was just the idea is we bring the best players together and then let's go.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett50:39

       It wasn't about the football. It was-

    5. JKJürgen Klopp50:40

       No, not at all. And I sat there and was like, "Uh, nah, I am not sure. That's not for me." So, and then the pure, pure football project comes up with, with Liverpool. And the sensational talk to, to Mike Gordon should... That's really important as well. Like he was the, he's the owner and now John and Tom, of course, as well. But Mike was responsible for us. I wanted, after that talk, I want (laughs) to be his friend. He's such a good guy. So that's how it started. Then in the end, uh, yeah, it was pretty special.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett51:13

       I find this fascinating because as a Manchester United fan, I, I observed from the moment Sir Alex Ferguson left, we adopted a very different approach and we brought in all these massive name players, Di Maria, Falcao, Ibri- you know, I- Ibrahimovic, Pogba, Ronaldo, and we, we failed. And it, it taught me something as a entrepreneur about what matters more. And I actually, when I read through your philosophy, it's quite clear in your philosophy that you, you prefer attitude and character versus how many Instagram followers you've got-

    7. JKJürgen Klopp51:46

       (laughs)

    8. SBSteven Bartlett51:47

       ... and what you've done in the past.

    9. JKJürgen Klopp51:49

       Yeah, of course.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett51:50

        And I wanted to get your take on why you think the last... This is very selfish of me, the last sort of 15 years at Manchester United haven't worked out as an objective observer.

    11. JKJürgen Klopp51:58

        (laughs)

    12. SBSteven Bartlett51:59

        I wanna... I need to know. You need-

    13. JKJürgen Klopp52:01

        You, you can't. (laughs)

    14. SBSteven Bartlett52:02

        No, no, no. You, you're a man that was able to take teams and make them successful, and we are currently-

    15. JKJürgen Klopp52:09

        (laughs)

    16. SBSteven Bartlett52:09

        ... underdogs in many regards because of the last 15 years.

    17. JKJürgen Klopp52:11

        Yeah.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett52:11

        What is it that we've missed in that time? What have we overlooked in your view?

    19. JKJürgen Klopp52:15

        I know you don't wanna hear that.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett52:17

        You have a hypothesis though.

    21. JKJürgen Klopp52:18

        I didn't think a second since I joined Liverpool

17. 52:24 – 56:02

    Why Has Manchester Been Struggling?

    1. JKJürgen Klopp52:24

       about what Man United did right or wrong. I just did. So it's like I buy into a situation. So, um, I went to Liverpool and that moment, you became our opponent, not my enemy, but an, a very important opponent. One who is much more fun to beat than maybe... and, and, and like other

    2. NANarrator52:42

       (laughs)

    3. JKJürgen Klopp52:43

       ... sticks with Everton. I know so many Everton fans in Liverpool, been... Lived there for nine years, so I know so many people. Great people. Yeah. So absolutely. But then you go to the game, you think, "Oh my God, that's something different." And not I make that up. It's like that. Um, but I really didn't think, but, but always in football is like this. And again, like in life, you have a problem and you only try to find a solution for now, knowing you have two days later another problem. You know it, but just for now, just find a solution for that problem. There's no mid, no long term.

    4. NANarrator53:14

       (laughs)

    5. JKJürgen Klopp53:14

       So, "Okay, we have to deal with that for another day or two, and then we can sort it." And that means in, in our example, we have to deal with it for a year or two at United, and then we can make a big step. Then this fan- c- in our case, in football case, contracts are running out, player goes anywhere, we can sell him, we can do this. But because you're in such a rush all the time just because you want to or have to win the next game, a little bit like that being now in the situation, probably United in the years when they were not happy, they would bide their time from that time. José becoming second and nobody was really happy there. And you think, "Oh, remember that?" In that time second was not good enough, and now you are not even close to that. But that's not a Man United story for my... That's just a football story. It's always like that. In the foot- in the world of football, you win, you're the greatest. You lose, you know nothing about the game. You draw, you're boring. So there's nothing th- and you're constant and it's only about your own idea what you really wanna do and where you wanna go. And everything in life is about development. We, today... You were not the same 10 years ago. I was not the same 10 years ago.

    6. NANarrator54:25

       (laughs)

    7. JKJürgen Klopp54:25

       So it means the time between then and now counts. So if it counts, for me, the next 10 years do the same. So it's important what I do, it's important what I see in a year or two, three. So I have to plan my own life mid and long term as much as I can do that. And especially the destiny and, and the future of a football club. A player can score a goal, can score five goals, will never sort the problems-

    8. NANarrator54:50

       Mm-hmm.

    9. JKJürgen Klopp54:50

       ... if you have real problems. And I don't know the United problems, but Liverpool was the same. It's not about that. On the day when we s- when we f- lost, sold Phil Coutinho, that was not the day when I thought, "Oh, good that we have the money." I lost a player I wanted to work with for the next t- ten years, if you want. It was not that, that I thought, "Aha, (sighs) and we can invest it." Yeah, we invested it smartly, that's true, but it's not that we found a player for the position and sorted that. That's... We had to sort differently, but we found two really solid, solid wor- and becoming world class players with Alisson and Van Dijk. That was for the future.... to, to go from there. And now that's the difference, I think. (page turns)

    10. SBSteven Bartlett55:34

        I've had so many founders speak to me and say, "Why didn't this particular ad that I ran on this platform work for me?" Maybe the copy wasn't good, the creative wasn't strong. But usually the problem is they're not having the right conversation, because that ad never reached the right person. And if you're in B2B marketing, that is much of the game. And this is where LinkedIn Ads solves that problem for you. Their targeting is ridiculously specific. You can target by job title, seniority, company size, industry, and even someone's skill set.

18. 56:02 – 58:04

    Thoughts on Ads in Football

    1. SBSteven Bartlett56:02

       And their network includes over a billion professionals. About 130 million of them are decision-makers. So when you use LinkedIn Ads, you're putting your brand in front of the right people. And LinkedIn Ads also drive the highest B2B return on ad spend across all ad networks, in my experience. If you want to give them a try, head over to linkedin.com/diary. And when you spend $250 on your first LinkedIn Ads campaign, you'll get an extra $250 credit from me for the next one. That's linkedin.com/diary. Terms and conditions apply. (page turns) Do any of you remember a conversation I had on this podcast with anthropologist Daniel Lieberman? It was one of our most viewed conversations of all time. And the most replayed moment in that conversation was when I talked about this product. These are what I call barefoot shoes by Vivobarefoot, which have significantly reduced support, which gives my feet the opportunity that they desperately want and need to strengthen. We're living in a comfort crisis. And at, at all times in our lives, we're making this trade of whether to have more comfort now, and therefore more discomfort in the future, or a little bit less comfort now, but to be stronger and healthier in the future. And research from Liverpool University has backed this up. They've shown that wearing Vivobarefoot shoes for six months can increase foot strength by up to 60%. So if you want to start strengthening your feet and your body, visit vivobarefoot.com/stephen, and you'll get 20% off when you use code STEPHENB20 at checkout. That also comes with a 100-day money-back guarantee. (page turns) What I love about football is the analogies to the world I'm in, which is the world of business, where you can watch a team, like we're seeing I think Crystal Palace at the moment, who objectively don't have maybe the best players in the world, they don't have the most money.

    2. JKJürgen Klopp57:49

       Bournemouth as well.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett57:50

       Bournemouth as well, yeah. But they're doing something which is creating this magic, and it's this wonderful narrative of you don't need to have the, the most talent or resources to have the best outcome. So what is that gap

19. 58:04 – 1:02:28

    How Teams Without Top Players Still Succeed

    1. SBSteven Bartlett58:04

       between... Like, and that's-

    2. JKJürgen Klopp58:05

       There must, there must be something. Now, look, it's, it's a situation, a moment in the situation for Crystal Palace and Bournemouth that's massively different to the situation for United. If, if Bournemouth wins the game 1-nil and doesn't perform particularly well, you take it and you go on. I'm not sure you would read or find an article in, in, in the newspaper about it. Just win it and go. But United is united. United, each step is under the, under focus and they're, "Aah? Oh, he didn't... They won, but he didn't play great." So they, they win a game and then if somebody, uh, doesn't perform well, so pick him out and go for him full throttle. You think, "Wow." Right? And so the coach has to pick him up again, "Oh, no, it's all right," stuff like this, and the next one, and the ne- They're different, completely different situations. The only problem you have now, in the time you try to sort your problems, all the other clubs improve their situations.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett59:00

       Mm-hmm.

    4. JKJürgen Klopp59:00

       So Liverpool has an incredible squad, yes. Are they 100% happy right now with the three defeats? No, probably not, but incredible squad. Arsenal, incredible squad. City, City, I mean, (laughs) and they want to strike back, so it's already three clubs. Chelsea-

    5. SBSteven Bartlett59:16

       Mm-hmm.

    6. JKJürgen Klopp59:16

       ... huh? They, in that time, when everybody thought, "Do they have an overview about their transfer market? Do they know who they own and who they loan?" And stuff like this, obviously somehow it pays off. So they have already five clubs that are above you. Are you happy with position six? No.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett59:32

       (laughs) Yeah.

    8. JKJürgen Klopp59:33

       So, and here's the problem. Should you be happy theoretically with position six? Maybe, this year, and build on that. So find a m- find a reason, find a reason to enjoy the situation again. Find a reason to enjoy a, a 1-nil victory, 2-nil victory at home, whoever, against whoever. Southampton, try to enjoy that. Really, be happy, go home, and not listening to others who tell you then, "Pfft, for Southampton." That's what we had years ago when we decided after a, a draw against West Brom to say thank you to the supporters. We stand in front of The Kop and, uh, hold his out a hand and then, and said, "Thank you." And then the press conference, Tony Pulis said, "Aah, what a, what a world we are living in when Liverpool, with the money they spend, celebrate a point against West Brom." And then, oh. Thank you. Um, so but it's, it's y- it's your choice how you grow together again. And I think after all the years now without lot of good football, they need to find a way to grow together again.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:47

       I fully believe in Ruben Amorim. Um, I think he's, he's a man that's focused on culture, and I, I like how honest he is as well. And I think with the team that they have around them, with people like Jason Wilcox at INEOS, who I've met, um, and Colette and all the others that are there, I think we're, we've never been in a better place. I personally feel like that, because I just think they're aiming for more long-term things. They're aiming at more long-term solutions.

    10. JKJürgen Klopp1:01:10

        The only thing, the only problem is you have no clue about football, but besides that... (laughs)

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:15

        (laughs) That's a small problem.

    12. JKJürgen Klopp1:01:18

        So yeah.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:19

        Yeah.

    14. JKJürgen Klopp1:01:19

        Good on you. Good on you that you're here.

    15. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:21

        But I, I have faith.

    16. JKJürgen Klopp1:01:22

        Yeah, that's great.

    17. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:24

        I have faith.

    18. JKJürgen Klopp1:01:24

        Isn't that...

    19. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:24

        Um, yeah. I don't know if all my friends do, but I, but I certainly do. And I, the only reason I have faith is because I see the club aiming at more long-term things now.... and not buy-

    20. JKJürgen Klopp1:01:33

        Good. That's what you have to do.

    21. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:34

        ... players because they have loads of Instagram followers.

    22. JKJürgen Klopp1:01:36

        Yeah.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:36

        When you got that phone call from Liverpool and they asked you to, to come and join, you said, well, the reason you chose Liverpool is because they felt like a football project versus Manchester United who seemed to be a bit more sh- less football oriented.

    24. JKJürgen Klopp1:01:49

        Yeah, but it, but it's not the same year, huh?

    25. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:50

        Yeah.

    26. JKJürgen Klopp1:01:51

        Two years-

    27. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:51

        Yeah.

    28. JKJürgen Klopp1:01:51

        ... two, two years before.

    29. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:53

        I'm wondering what is it about their proposal that made you think it was a football project?

    30. JKJürgen Klopp1:02:00

        Oh, the situation. I knew the club, I knew the team. So i- if you look at, um, on top of that, I didn't think it that way. But, um, when Sir Alex left, it was... And they became champion in his last year, but it was not that the team was one you build a future on. So that's how it is. When you come in as new, it's, it's a bit built to fail-
20. 1:02:28 – 1:05:56

    Why Manchester Felt Like a Football Project

    1. JKJürgen Klopp1:02:28

       So David Moyes, some fantastic, fantastic manager, um, what he proves every year, um, couldn't do the job. And since then it's a bit of a problem. So a new team needs time.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:39

       He was stitched up. He was...

    3. JKJürgen Klopp1:02:40

       So, yeah, needs time. So Liverpool, the team, as, as I said when I came, um, nobody likes the team. Not even the team likes the team. Um, I liked the team. I liked the team. I knew the players. I thought when Bobby Firmino moved there, I thought, "Oh, that's a smart, that's a smart transfer." I know Chris- I knew Christian Benteke, I loved Divock Origi. I knew John Henderson, I knew Adam Lallana. I knew many, plenty of players and heard only, "Ah, they're not good enough." And I thought, "Oh, well, let's see." So I liked the team. So that's a football team, proper football super attitude. I mean, just on day one, I could have, um, um, um, played Hendo, Milly and Adam together in midfield. Maybe I did. I don't even know my, my first lineup. But this, I mean, it's a proper engine room. It's smart players, it's people who really want to, want to, um, perform, want to work hard and all this kind of things. That's what you need for a start. I knew Liverpool was not the same club than they were before. It's not that I went into the shiny room. I played there a year before with Dortmund in the summer, in the pre-season, and I was massively disappointed about the dressing rooms. I, I remember you have these pictures in your mind, you think, "Oh my God, it's Anfield, ah." And you walk in and make two steps into the dressing room and you run against a wall and you think, "Kidding? Is that all? Where's the rest?" So English dressing rooms are really, really small in the old stadiums. Then we think, "Oh my God, how can you bring it?" It was built for 11 players and now we come here with 30, so... And people in that room doesn't help. So I, I knew about the history. I knew that nobody's happy. I knew that I liked the team. Um, that's a good start.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:24

       And did they tell you that they were gonna develop the, the ground, the stadium? Did they make any promises to you or assurances? Did they tell you-

    5. JKJürgen Klopp1:04:29

       No.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:29

       ... you were going to get-

    7. JKJürgen Klopp1:04:30

       We didn't, we didn't really speak about that in the first conversation. That's, that's nothing I need to talk about in, in this kind of conversation. I know my... That the job I had in that moment was just to improve the football team, not the club that I was involved in. All the other stuff happened with time, with time. Just that we... I realized this is my responsibility now as well. Um, you, you, you never know. I don't plan seven, eight, nine-year spells in a club. It just happens. It's like I, I don't, I don't think they could sack me, but I know could happen. So I plan from a specific moment on when I sorted the first few things, then I plan mid and long term or always did knowing it might not be for me. But, um, I, that wasn't... I was never, uh, worried about that too much to be honest.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:16

       What was the first, first couple of things you thought you had to change to get them winning and to get the, the confidence back and to ultimately bring the city behind you? Was there anything you thought, "Okay, the first thing I'm gonna have to do is get rid of him, change this"?

    9. JKJürgen Klopp1:05:29

       So the... A year before, like, not in that season, but the, the, the two years before they nearly became champions. It was a different team and it was a very specific way of football. Offensively, oh my God, they were ridiculously good. Defensively, yeah, lucky a good goalie there, stuff like this. It was not the same. So we didn't have the team from that time. We didn't have Suarez, we didn't have Sterling, we didn't have... Yeah, we had still, um, Danny

21. 1:05:56 – 1:08:33

    Your Initial Plan at Liverpool

    1. JKJürgen Klopp1:05:56

       Sturridge, stuff like this, but it was different, different team, completely different situation. I, I arrived there, I had five strikers.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:01

       (laughs)

    3. JKJürgen Klopp1:06:02

       It was Christian Benteke, Danny Ings, Divock Origi, Bobby Firmino, Daniel Sturridge, five strikers, and I want to play a one-striker system. Ooh, how do we deal with that? But it was, it was fine. And there was so much quality, just really sorted. So the first thing I had to sort is like to, to organize them. So find, get, find a way to make sure that they understand that we have a chance to win the next football game, and we have to do a couple of things for that. For Tottenham, three days time to train. Yeah. Jump in their face and let's see what, what, what we get for it. So that's... It's not organized. It's like when we started with an organized chaos. So I gave them a few ideas about where we have to... Where we, where we want to put them under pressure and in that moment, and now do it, and afterwards we work, we talk about it, how it worked out because there was no time to train. We... Anyway, we had no time. The week after we played European League, I think, in the midweek, and then you play again and... No, it's like you are in a rush at a coaching career with all the games you have to play if you really want to, a top team especially, if you really want to develop a style of football, you are set up to fail because it's like you have no time in the pre-season. There's no... The players are everywhere playing big tournaments, blah, blah, blah, and then you come two weeks before the season starts into your camp. Okay, so let's try, let's go from here. Then you play top teams, play every three days from a specific date on. We obviously... We lost a lot of finals, that means we played a lot of finals, that means we played all the games until the end of the season (laughs) , which is a lot. So there's not really time. So we... To train and really develop things, so you have to use each little moment.... to implement a specific idea we all can buy into, and that's what we did. I loved our first game against Tottenham. Simon Mignolet had to make a good, few good, really good saves, but they had to do as well, and that year Tottenham was really strong. They, uh, became second behind Leicester, I think it was that season. And that's a start.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:05

       What are those little ideas that you started to implement one by one?

    5. JKJürgen Klopp1:08:11

       So many... If you don't have time to change football f- f- you couldn't have... What do you mean? W- we are all now genius, and we cannot go there and show them a little bit, "Pass the ball here, pass the ball there. And then if you pass the ball back again, you can shoot when you're alone in front of the goal." That doesn't work like that. So then I, I want, I am 100% convinced that you have to make sure that you are stable. If you are stable, that means

22. 1:08:33 – 1:12:31

    Small Ideas You Implemented Early

    1. JKJürgen Klopp1:08:33

       that the other team, whatever they try, it's not easy for them to get through and should just finish. I don't like that. So if you can avoid that, do it. Because y- we are people. What we now realized a few times, it's not easy that you... If they have five, six chances after each other, opportunities after each other, then it's like that you, you f- you don't feel great. Nobody plays to his best football if each attack of the opponent ends in the arms of your goalie. That just doesn't work. So how can we do that? And stability is to organize a team, that's number one, two and three on the to-do list of a successful manager. And that's what I did, we organized, and then we ex- we, we told them to run their socks off, if you want. The people have to show... The, you have to show the people that you want to change something, you have to show the people that you want to achieve something. How? We can tell... I can tell them, but again, you have to show them. So run (laughs) and they, and they went for it. And I loved it so much, they loved it so much. It's easy, they're all top fit, they want to run. So just show them which direction and it goes. And then we developed step by step our own way of football. Brought players in step by step, um, but we got, we got stable pretty quickly. Not as much as we wanted. I think we became sixth, seventh, eighth, I don't even know, first season. Two finals, great. Lost both, not great. Um, but then we, we knew each other and we loved working together with this group. Brought in super players, really super, super players, super characters, super players, and stuck together in... And I mean, what can you do? We, we lost the, we lost the European League final in Basel. How it always is, there's a party after the game. So you can not organize a party but you always know if you lose, no one wants to go to the party. So I was the new manager, yes, not that new anymore, seven, eight months in or so, and I realized some players aren't there, but it wasn't a team hotel. So I told... I called them and told them, "All here. Come on, come downstairs." "Oh, boss, really uh..." "I tell you what, this was only the start. We're only out together since six, seven month. This is not the last final we're playing. This is the first final we played." "Okay, we lost a bit of Carabao, uh, that's not important. The first international final we lost." "No problem. We go again." And everyone will stay on the dance floor (laughs) . It was a dance floor. And I said, "All coming." And then we're saying, "We are Liverpool." Sha-la-la-la-la. I mean, I had, um, had a few parties after the finals we lost, and I always thought, "I don't waste time at all on not being happy about what we achieved over the whole year, because qualifying for a final is a real achievement. Losing it is not great, but until then everything was fine." And I never accepted that we ignored the rest. So we have a party, and then we went on to achieve new things. And we've been... Need a bit of time obviously, but it was okay.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:31

       And this goes back to the point earlier about controlling the mindset and the psychology after you lose to make sure that you don't get depressed-

    3. JKJürgen Klopp1:11:38

       Yeah.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:38

       ... and-

    5. JKJürgen Klopp1:11:39

       If you don't learn from a defeat, it's a real defeat. If you learn from it, it's just, it's a very, very important information. And that's how I always understood, understood it too. I had enough opportunities to learn really. I lost more Champions League finals than most people play. It's not a great thing to say. (laughs) It's the truth anyway.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:02

       You're known for what they call heavy metal football.

    7. JKJürgen Klopp1:12:05

       Yeah, well, that's... Yeah, I know.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:06

       Do you like that phrase? (laughs) And do you know why people say that?

    9. JKJürgen Klopp1:12:09

       I've said a lot of things, but it's like they... That I said that to... And it was not m- in my mind that I thought, "Oh, you wanna play heavy metal football?" They asked me about Arsene Wenger on the comparison, and they did think we are similar in a way. And I thought, "What? Arsene?" And I know him, so come on, don't be disrespectful to Arsene. I'm a young blah-blah-blah man from

23. 1:12:31 – 1:15:19

    Known for Heavy Metal Football

    1. JKJürgen Klopp1:12:31

       somewhere. Um, but if you wanna compare us, then I'm not sure that's possible, because Ar- Ars- Arsene's football is rather like an orchestra, and I... My team plays a little bit more like a heavy metal band. But that was the first statement I thought about my team, like a heavy metal band, but it...

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:48

       But it's true.

    3. JKJürgen Klopp1:12:49

       Yes, somehow.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:50

       It is true.

    5. JKJürgen Klopp1:12:50

       Yeah.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:50

       And I know that more than anyone who's a Manchester United fan watching.

    7. JKJürgen Klopp1:12:53

       (laughs)

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:54

       I'd hate playing your football teams because they, they ran so much. They were so passionate. They never let up. They would... They could always win in the last minute. And the intensity was ju- you were just anxious as a football fan watching the games because it was so full on, and it was overwhel- it was almost over- overwhelming emotionally. And I remember through your era, you would win, sometimes you'd win games by seven, you'd score seven goals, five goals. Every week when I pull out my phone to check the scores that week, "Oh, Liverpool have scored five again." "Oh, they've scored seven again, they've scored six again." Sometimes you would concede three-

    9. JKJürgen Klopp1:13:25

       Yeah.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:13:25

        ... but you would... It was, it was crazy how high-intensity the way you played football was.

    11. JKJürgen Klopp1:13:31

        Don't waste time with holding back. I, I don't understand it. We have nothing to do 90 minutes, 95 minutes, whatever. I don't. We had to learn... I had to learn to manage games (laughs) -... inside me until the last day. It was like, "Come on."

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:13:48

        (laughs)

    13. JKJürgen Klopp1:13:49

        "Go on, try." But then I had, I had my minute back and grow up, and I got more mature and stuff like this. It was like, "Okay, come on, hold the ball, control the ball." All the things you, you at one point you do, you, you learn, uh, some a- at any time on your, on your journey. And that's, that's how it is. And I love the game so much and could play it not that good that I was so happy that I could work with these outstanding players. I couldn't so... I, I loved it. I enjoyed it so much seeing them doing what they're doing. I was the, I was number one supporter of my team, teams, wherever I was. I loved what they did. So and that's what I, I, I carried through the week. I didn't tell them... I di- I told them, "I wanna be your friend, but don't wanna be... I cannot be your best friend because I'm the one who tells you off very often, and will tell you, 'This is not right.' 'This is not right.'" But any... But the feeling, the general feeling was I love them. In my mind, my ex-players, I love them all. And some of them don't love back, let me say like that, probably for some reasons or whatever, but that doesn't mean anything to me. I love my clubs.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:51

        Do you think it's important how you win? Because you, you know, this heavy metal, high-intensity football-

    15. JKJürgen Klopp1:14:57

        Oh, you'll win. Yeah.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:58

        ... was great for the fans. They, they love watching three, four, five, six, seven. They love watching that stuff. Do you think that matters or do you think it's just about getting the three points?

    17. JKJürgen Klopp1:15:07

        Let's say we didn't win that often, 5-0 or 7-0.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:10

        It felt like it. (laughs)

    19. JKJürgen Klopp1:15:11

        Right.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:11

        It felt like it was every-

    21. JKJürgen Klopp1:15:12

        Yes, and against United we did.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:13

        Yeah. (laughs)

    23. JKJürgen Klopp1:15:15

        No, uh, you can cut that out. Um, no, it's...

24. 1:15:19 – 1:18:57

    Does It Matter How You Win?

    1. JKJürgen Klopp1:15:19

       Yeah, of course, it's important. So if you have your bag packed, go in the stadium as a player, uh, if you have your boots and if you have... Wear a shirt, if you have... Don't waste time with anything than giving your all. There's no guarantee to get anything, but the only chance to get something, so give your all from the first until the last minute. You have to understand this game is only that fun for us because all the people are watching it. That's why we earn the money. I mean it. I know that's what people want to hear, but it's, we earn the money because everybody's interested in it. Everybody wants to see it, knows about it, reads everything about it, all these kind of things. And from that, with all the stories around, the only thing we really have to deliver is give your absolute all in a game like that, whatever, whichever game is there, 5:30, 2:30, 3:30, whenever the game starts, give your absolute all.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:16:10

       But why not just one-nil and defense, and boring and pass it round and-

    3. JKJürgen Klopp1:16:14

       That happens. That happens in games. You are, you realize, "Okay, we scored a goal, but today is not our day. Come on, let's get it over the line." That happens, but it cannot be the target or the purpose for the next game again. "Let's do it like that." Not for... There are clubs, if you on- the only realistic target is to stay in league. A one-nil is a wonderful result, but we talk about a club like Liverpool. We are, we were, are bigger than that. You have to win each football game when you are manager of Liverpool. That's what people... That's not that we... Before the season anybody thinks, "Oh, I don't have 38 games. I want to make sense of, ooh, more than 100, ayy." No, nobody had ever. So it's not like that, but still each defeat and each draw is like, "How could that happen?" It's like... And though, and that's why you have to, to play in a specific way. Not all clubs have the same things to do, but the top clubs, they have to win all the games. And when you have the chance, you win them clear, you win them hard, with a proper result, stuff like this. You have to make the people enjoy the football you play. And I love to do that. I, I loved it. I, honestly. It's like the, the games we played, the, the, the, the results we had were just incredible. It's just a- amazing, uh, not all of them. And I love the one-nils as much as I do all the others. The Champions League final was the worst, the worst final of all the four my teams played, but we won it. Would I take... Would I change this? Okay, let's do the other three as well? So a little bit... The performance in other games was really good, but we lost. So here we are, yeah, it was not fantastic, but we won, so all fine. It's about the result, but if you have a result and another result, it has to lead to really good football at one point, as good as possible for your specific team. You want to stay in the league? Do it with good football. You wanna qualify for Europe? Do it with good football, because we are there for the people. We don't... It's not there that we just go home and the people think, "Oh, it's unwatchable, eh? I'm not sure I come next week again." That's not, that's not fair. Try to play. The game is really... It's a re- really cool game. So let's make sure that everybody sees it.

Episode duration: 2:28:25