Kamala Harris: Why the Democratic Party must outgrow one guy

How Harris reframes Biden's pre-debate call as motivated by ego; the imposter feelings she carried into the Senate and what 2028 still demands.

Steven Bartletthost

Oct 30, 20251h 45mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

150 min read · 30,117 words

0:00 – 2:22
Intro
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  I'm gonna just be honest. There were times when Joe Biden greatly disappointed me. And frankly, you know, angered me. Like, on the day of my debate with Trump, the stakes were so high and the president calls and he said to me... It just was so unnecessary.
2. And you took something from that?
3. That his motivation was all about himself.
4. Do you think he wanted you to win the election?
5. (inhales deeply)
6. Madam Vice President, there's nothing you said I couldn't ask you.
7. 'Cause I have a lot to say and so (beep) . (laughs)
8. (laughs) Okay. So, do you wish you hadn't ran?
9. No, but I do regret that we did not have more time.
10. And then the debate that came before with Biden and Trump, it was a car crash? I mean, this was clearly an individual that was very much struggling.
11. He didn't want that debate. I could tell something was a little off.
12. How d'you know?
13. Well, I can start with this.
14. And what about not going on Joe Rogan's show?
15. I definitely regret that we didn't do it, but there was a lot of games being played.
16. And then on that night when the election hasn't gone your way, what would I have seen if I was a fly on the wall in the room?
17. I was in a state of shock. Like, I haven't felt anything similar to the emotion I felt that day, other than the grief I felt when my mother died and I knew what was gonna happen to our country. So, I had a hard time reconciling that we can't still do something about it because I grew up in an environment where everyone was fighting for justice and for equality. So, I do think about how different it could've been, but sometimes the fight takes a while.
18. Does that mean that you're gonna run again?
19. I-
20. I see messages all the time in the comments section that some of you didn't realize you didn't subscribe, so if you could do me a favor and double check if you're a subscriber to this channel, that would be tremendously appreciated. It's the simple, it's the free thing that anybody that watches this show frequently can do to help us here to keep everything going and this show in the trajectory it's on. So, please do double check if you've subscribed and, uh, thank you so much, because in a strange way, you are, you're part of our history and you're on this journey with us and I appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank you. Madame Vice President, how are you doing?
21. I am well. I am well. I mean, all things considered, I am well. My family's, good health, so I start there. But otherwise, you know, it's
2:22 – 3:36
How Are You Feeling?
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  a, it's a, it's a troubling time.
2. What are the, what are the full range of emotions? When you said all things considered, what are the full, what's the full picture there?
3. Everything from grateful and feeling very blessed to extremely troubled, disappointed, concerned of the state of our country and by extension, the world. Like a lot of people who are watching the news and reading the news, there is a state of anxiety, what will happen next. I often have found myself saying to people, "It may get worse before it gets better." And so the knowledge of that, perhaps the anticipation of that, I think keeps me and many others on edge.
4. Do you believe that? Do you believe it's, it could get worse before it gets better?
5. I think it's very possible. Every day, I, I... Because actually during the book tour I've, I've said it to audiences and in one city, and then the next day something happens. There's a lot that's very unpredictable about this administration, although there is almost
3:36 – 6:44
Will It Get Worse Before It Gets Better?
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  all of it that I did predict.
2. Now, I know you, you only had 107 days-
3. Mm-hmm.
4. ... to potentially intervene in the course of history, but when you see these things playing out that you're referring to, that incite those feelings you have-
5. Mm-hmm.
6. ... of frustration, um, little bit of anxiety, et cetera, uh, d- do you feel a sense of, like, responsibility in a weird way? Because y- because-
7. N- yeah.
8. ... there was a percentage chance of sort of intervening in these things? This is a complex question to ask but it's...
9. Mm-hmm. I do think about how different it could've been.
10. Mm-hmm.
11. I do think about it in the context of the number of people who are being impacted in such a horrible way. I think of it in terms of the number of people who are existing and living in utter fear right now. Afraid of being attacked or afraid of being targeted with hate.
12. Mm-hmm.
13. Um, n- much less misinformation. I... Yeah, I do, and I, and I know that the, the race that I ran for President of the United States, the outcome of that election is what has happened. And it would've been different. Would've been very different. I try not to allow myself to think too much this way, I will tell you that, because I, for better and worse, really do like to be centered on the present.
14. So, so let's... I wanna understand the, the set of circumstances that created someone like you, because you're an anomaly. There's a lot of firsts that appear in your career. But if we s- if we start at the beginning, what is the context that shapes someone to become such an anomaly in their professional career?
15. My parents.
16. Okay.
17. And the community that raised me. My mother arrived from India in the United States at the age of 19 by herself.
18. Mm-hmm.
19. My mother naturally, at that young age, became aligned with the Civil Rights movement.
20. Mm-hmm.
21. In, in, um, Berkeley and Oakland, California. Met my father who had been a national scholar in Jamaica. They fell in love and here I am. My sister and I were born and we were born in an environment where everyone was fighting for justice and for freedom and for equality. Every message we got was, "You are important and you have a duty."... to figure out how you're going to participate.
22. I, I noticed this as I was reading through your story, how service and helping others seems to be so interwoven into your DNA.
23. Mm-hmm.
24. And even, uh, our, we spoke to Doug-
25. Uh-huh. (laughs)
26. ... your husband. And, uh, he was telling me a story about y- your first date with him.
27. Uh-huh. (laughs) What did he tell you?
28. Well, apparently you made a, you made a remark on that first date that you're, you're here to help people and to serve people. He told me many things. We, we have, uh, I have many pages-
29. (laughs)
30. ... of what Doug said. Very fascinating. He's um, he's very in love with you by the way.
6:44 – 7:42
We Spoke to Your Husband
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  right? He went immediately into private practice. I never wanted to be in private practice. It was never about money for me. It was always about people, and how could I do the work that was about protecting people, and giving people dignity?
2. Why protecting people?
3. I, I think there's a lot, um, that has to do also maybe with birth order. (laughs)
4. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
5. I'm the eldest.
6. Mm-hmm.
7. And from the age of two years old, my mother told me, "Take care of your sister. Look out for your sister." That, you've got all kinds of stuff. (laughs)
8. All the pictures, yeah. I've been through everything.
9. Yeah, this is my sister, Maya.
10. That's you protecting her.
11. And that's me protecting her. I grew up also, you know, seeing my mother, who was a five-foot tall Brown woman with an accent, would be treated. And she taught me this, my extended family taught me, but then I also witnessed the importance
7:42 – 8:43
Why Do You Want to Protect People?
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  of making sure that all people, that their dignity is respected and protected. And I, because I, you know, I, I have lived a life to see where that doesn't always happen.
2. So you decide to focus on law in public practice. Um, you have a phenomenal career from that point onwards. It's really remarkable what you're able to accomplish, and this is g- I guess where a lot of the firsts come in because from the age of 24 to 51, you rise from deputy district attorney to California's attorney general, becoming the first woman and first Black person to hold both roles. Um, and you led major reforms in that time, including securing $25 billion in homeowner relief after the 2008 crisis, launching the Back on Track LA re- rehabilitation program, and making California the state, the first state to mandate body cameras for justice, justice agents, and much more. An incredible career up until that point.
3. Mm-hmm.
4. That could've been it.
5. (laughs)
6. You could've bowed out at that point and celebrated a wonderful-
7. Oh, but
8:43 – 9:19
Kamala’s Law Career
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  there's so much more to be done. There's so much more to be done. Um, I think one of my strengths and weaknesses is, um, I like to solve problems, but that means that I tend to, once a problem has been addressed, move on to the next one without maybe taking the time to pat myself on the back.
2. Mm-hmm.
3. Because now it's time to move on to the next issue.
4. During your career, you, you saw some horrific things. That's the nature of your job.
5. Yeah.
6. You deal with the dark- darkest parts of reality.
7. Yeah. The worst parts of human behavior and nature, I've seen. Yeah. You're right.
9:19 – 11:06
The Worst Thing You Faced in Your Career
1. SBSteven Bartlett
2. Gimme, gimme some context there. What does that mean in reality?
3. Well, for a while I specialized in child sexual assault, which is about, um, the most horrendous of abuse and crime, which is an adult abusing a child. And, uh, those cases were so difficult, um, for so many reasons. I mean, there's a couple that I remember in particular where I just, where the children were so young that they were, um, they w- wouldn't be able to testify. One was an elementary school little girl, and I mean, I, I remember going into the bathroom of the courthouse and crying because I knew a jury would not have enough to convict. And, um, and it broke my heart. I mean, and I, I have thought about that little girl, you know, uh, years and years and years later. But those cases, you know, it's the worst of human behavior, which is we as a society should be in the business of protecting children and protecting their vulnerabilities so that they can thrive. Um, but I've, you know, I've prosecuted homicide cases. I've, um, you know, prosecuted fraud cases.
4. How does, how does one deal with all of this stress and responsibility? And I'm not just referring to your time as attorney general, but even thereafter with-
5. Yeah.
6. ... running
11:06 – 12:45
Managing Stress and Responsibility
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  for president and the ups and downs of that, the public feedback, the, the pressure, the responsibility of potentially running the, you know, the f- the f- the free world basically, and becoming the most powerful person on Earth, and the ups, the downs, the attacks, the, the, the child abuses.
2. Mm-hmm.
3. How does one le- is there a framework you've built? Is there other ideas or principles that you've developed to deal with such pressure?
4. Well, eh, this may sound trite, but I work out every day.
5. Yeah.
6. I work out every morning no matter how little sleep I've had. Um, I just find it to be just mind, body, and soul.
7. Have you changed over time?
8. Oh, for sure I've changed over time. The pressure has changed in magnitude.
9. Mm-hmm.
10. Um, but the pressure that I feel in terms of, uh, my sense of personal responsibility-
11. Mm-hmm.
12. ... has not changed. I, I put a lot of...I, I, I hold myself to a very high standard. And, um, I tend to be a perfectionist, even though I am f- far from perfect. You know, I, I mean, even during the 107 days, every night I would stay awake thinking, "What more could I have done with that one day?"
13. 24-year-old Kamala Harris, who starts as that sort of, uh, becomes, eventually becomes the deputy district attorney. If I sat her there-
14. Uh-huh.
15. ... and you're sat there now as, um, Madame Vice President, what would be the notable differences in
12:45 – 15:10
Kamala at 25 vs. Kamala Today
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  personality, mentality, in perspective?
2. Oh, that's interesting. Uh, well, I mean, I, I don't know if it's changed, but she was f- fearless.
3. She was fearless?
4. She was fearless. She didn't hear, "No, it can't be done." And whether it was the first case that I had and I was a young prosecutor, and I was going through the files and it was a Friday evening, and I realized that the person who had been arrested had young children at home, a woman, and all the courts were shutting down, and I went to the courtroom and I asked the judge, "Please take the bench again. She has young children. She can't stay in over the weekend." And the clerk was like, "Nope, he's gone for the day. He's leaving for the day." And I would not leave. (laughs) And they called the case, you know? But not hearing no, I just, I, um, that has been probably a through line of my, my life. I don't rest easy with the idea that something is not possible. Um, at least I don't rest easy with it without trying-
5. Mm-hmm.
6. ... to show that it is possible. And that's probably not changed. I also have, uh, started to sit better with the idea that, "But you can't change everyone."
7. Mm-hmm. And how does that change your approach, knowing that you can't change everybody?
8. I'm better able to assess a situation to figure out what is the potential there.
9. Okay. Yeah.
10. And be perhaps a bit more realistic without being, I think, jaded about it.
11. Mm-hmm.
12. Yeah.
13. And that, I guess that's wisdom and experiences.
14. Yeah, it comes with, it comes with, I think, a bit of experience.
15. Which allows you to be more efficient and effective.
16. That's right.
17. Yeah.
18. That's exactly right.
19. Yeah.
20. That's exactly right, because that is how I reconcile it, which is the effort is better placed-
21. Yeah.
22. ... somewhere else.
23. Yeah.
24. Yeah.
25. And at what point in this, in this journey did you realize that you wanted to be President of the United States? Like, a, was, was there a, a lunch or a dinner you had with Doug? When,
15:10 – 16:35
When Did You Decide to Run for President?
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  when does that decision get made in your career?
2. It was when I was in the Senate.
3. Yeah.
4. I ran into a friend who came up. Doug and I were at a, basically a, a family table in a local restaurant, eating, and he said to me, "You should run for president." And it had not occurred to me until then. It had not occurred to me to run for president. I, there are people who are born thinking they're gonna be president. There are people who look (laughs) , who look in the mirror every day and see a president. (laughs) I was not one of those people. But then the thought, it kind of germinated. And then of course being vice president and doing the work of vice president of the United States, I met with over 150 world leaders, presidents, prime ministers, chancellors, and kings. I've negotiated very important deals and, and, and issues f- on behalf of the American people. Um, I've spent countless hours not only in the Oval Office, but the Situation Room and traveling around the world. And so, in those 107 days, I was fully aware of not only the importance of the job, but fully aware that I had, uh, the experience and knowledge to be able to do it effectively.
5. I mean, this is one of the things. I was actually just talking to a friend of mine downstairs, Lucy Menghini, who sat out there, and we, we were talking about this idea of, like, does imposter syndrome ever leave you?
6. Mm-hmm.
7. And imposter syndrome's a bit of a loaded term.
16:35 – 21:11
Does Impostor Syndrome Ever Go Away?
1. SBSteven Bartlett
2. Mm-hmm.
3. But you kind of assume that people in higher places than you are have some, like, genetic or mental or-
4. Yeah.
5. ... sort of some gift. They have all the answers.
6. Yeah. Yeah.
7. But the higher you climb, with your own continued naivete, you, you start to suspect that no one really is genetically gifted or, like, has some superpower-
8. Right.
9. ... that you don't have.
10. Right.
11. And I'm wondering if you've experienced that in your career, where the higher you've climbed, you've realized that actually everybody up here is, like, unlike that, like, or I'm at least on their level. Have you had that experience in your career?
12. Yes, I have, and, but I've also had the imposter syndrome experience, and that was when I was first elected DA.
13. Mm-hmm.
14. And I challenged then inc- the incumbent. Um, I started out at six points in the polls, which is six out of 100.
15. Yeah.
16. Uh, you know, people recently asked me, "Oh, about polls, polls." Well, you know, if I listened to polls, I would've never run for my first office and therefore we wouldn't be having this interview probably. And I won, and it was, you know, it was not expected that I would, at least when I jumped in the race. And there I was, sitting in the office, and I thought, "Oh my God, I'm, I'm now the elected DA of a major city in the United States." It, in hindsight, it was, maybe it's, uh, we call it imposter syndrome. To your point, maybe it is a very loaded term, because I think there's nothing wrong with having, um, and I think that there's a lot that is good with having a certain level of humility.
17. Mm-hmm.
18. And in particular when the people have, uh, vested you with great power.
19. Mm-hmm.
20. Right? To understand it's not about you. Right? I think that that is, that is part and parcel of what, when we call imposter syndrome or who has it, uh, I think often it is because they understand how serious.... the job is on behalf of others.
21. Yeah, yeah.
22. And I applaud a bit of humility, honest humility, not feigned humility.
23. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
24. Right? Because there are plenty of people that are, you know, self-deprecating for the sake of the shtick of it all.
25. Yeah.
26. But yes, to your point-
27. Does that ever go?
28. ... the higher you go... It does. It does, because the more you're exposed to s- to being... The more you're in the rooms with the people who are... who otherwise feel untouchable-
29. Mm-hmm.
30. ... the more you understand that they are not untouchable. (laughs)
21:11 – 25:37
Experiencing Prejudice
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  or anything like that?
2. I mean, there were times in my career when I walked in the room and someone said, you know, something along... If they didn't know me-
3. Mm-hmm.
4. ... if they didn't know what they were walking into, you know, they were waiting for my boss. (laughs)
5. And how did you deal with that? How did you stop that suppressing you? Because it's very easy to feel that and go, "Oh," and to shrink.
6. You will often be, you may often be the only one who walks into a boardroom, a courtroom, a meeting room, who looks like yourself or has had your life experiences. But when you walk in that room, walk in that room chin up, shoulders back, knowing there are so many people who are not in that room-
7. Mm-hmm.
8. ... who are so proud of you walking in that room and expect that you will use the voice that you carry.
9. Mm-hmm.
10. You know? And, and there are... There are tools that one has to employ when you otherwise are aware that y- y- you might be presenting the unfamiliar.
11. What's that step?
12. But, but, but what I also would caution is, is don't walk in that room with the assumption that your value will not be recognized, right? And so, again, this gets back to my point about w- we all have to moderate what, uh, limitations are we putting on ourselves with what limitations are being sent our way.
13. And when you say tools?
14. Well, just like that. Don't... The way you walk into that room, see all the people. I think sometimes of Mrs. Francis Wilson, who was my first grade teacher, who attended my law school graduation. I think of my mother, who would say to me, "Kamala, don't you ever let anyone tell you who you are. You tell them who you are," right?
15. And you think of these people, uh, when you walk into these important rooms, to remind you-
16. I, I, I... It's a tool I have used over a period of time, and, um, and it has served me well. Yes, there's Mrs. Wilson. That's at my law school graduation, and that's my mother. That's exactly right. How about that?
17. Okay.
18. Yeah. Where'd you get all these pictures? (laughs)
19. While out stalking, you know?
20. Yeah, yeah. (laughs) Yeah, that's Mrs. Wilson.
21. And so why is thinking of Mrs. Wilson helping you when you walk into those rooms?
22. Because, uh, there is, I think, a key to success that each of us who has achieved success probably shares, which is, there has been someone at least, and it could be a parent, it could be a teacher, it could be a neighbor, it could be a pastor, someone who convinced you you were special. You may not have been particularly special, but they told you you were and you believed them. I know that's true for me. I may not have been particularly special, but I had a few people who told me I was and I believed them.
23. Mm-hmm.
24. And, and, but with that came......therefore, don't do this thing-
25. Mm-hmm.
26. ... 'cause you're, you know, shouldn't be doing that thing, but go in that room. I think, uh, you know, when we talk about mentorship, when we think about the signals that we as a society send to children, and I mean all of our children, our own children, the children of a community which we should think of as our children, to send them signals that tell them they are special, and then back that up with giving them the resources would make us a much stronger society.
27. As you said that, I was reflecting on little passing comments people in my life made at certain points, that at the time, I was suspicious about. Like, you know, th- them telling you that you're gonna be special, do something great one day-
28. Yeah.
29. ... that I might have not fully believed myself, but I believe they believed it.
30. Right.
25:37 – 27:57
How Do You Earn Respect as a Leader?
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  that also garners that respect? I notice when you speak, you, you don't rush. And I think people that are younger in their career, they tend to duh-duh-duh-duh-duh.
2. Yeah. Right.
3. Because they're, they're kind of almost trying to excuse the amount of time they're taking, and they kind of are a bit more-
4. Right.
5. I was wondering if there's anything you've, any tools in that regard that have helped?
6. Uh, it's important to have some sense of conceptually-
7. Mm-hmm.
8. ... what you mean to say. And y- y- not that you have to rehearse what you're gonna speak before you speak it, but do have a sense of what you intend to communicate.
9. Mm-hmm.
10. And I think it's also important to, especially with complex issues in the context of a discussion, deconstruct in your mind what the issue is-
11. Mm-hmm.
12. ... so you can speak logically.
13. Mm-hmm. And what about appearance generally? Do you think much about that? So do you think much about it? 'Cause you're v- I mean, you look very, you s- your outfit's stunning today.
14. You're very co-
15. Does it matter?
16. Sadly, it does.
17. It does?
18. I mean, depending on context. Um, sadly, it does. It, I, we are still, I think, in a world where the way you appear when you walk in the room impacts first impressions.
19. Mm-hmm.
20. Um, including just, for example, again, even in mentoring people, people will look at their watch or their phone to see if you've walked in the room on time.
21. Mm-hmm.
22. And will judge something about your character-
23. Mm-hmm.
24. ... that the piece of how you look that is going to suggest the pride that one has in themselves-
25. Mm-hmm.
26. ... as a matter of self-respect. I mean, I've always, this is, you know, I grew up in the Black church. You dress up.
27. Mm-hmm.
28. And it's a, it's a reflection of your dignity, and the respect you have for the place that you may be.
29. And in January 2019, you launched your presidential campaign for the first time, which was up until you, you dropped out, uh, later that year in December.
30. Correct.
27:57 – 30:47
Why Kamala Dropped Out of the 2019 Race
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  what's the full context behind the scenes?
2. There was a lot there. Um, mostly, we ran out of money.
3. Yeah.
4. But I learned a lot of lessons, obviously, about running. Um, but that was, that was the main reason.
5. And at some point, you get a call from Mr. President.
6. Mm-hmm. I got a call from then nominee, Democratic Nominee Joe Biden. He, um, we FaceTimed. It was during the height of COVID.
7. Yeah.
8. And he asked me to be his running mate. And it was a, a great honor, and I was honored to do it.
9. Did you have any inclination before that moment that he was gonna ask you?
10. (sighs)
11. Had there been, like, a side conversation?
12. So, no, I had an interview. I had an interview, and it was like something out of a spy movie, where I had my assistant drove me to one location, this was in DC, and then it was a mall, and then I got out of that car to get in another car that was... Because the press were watching everything to see who, there was a short list that was out, who was gonna be, so we had to do this whole clandestine thing. And then I got into another car, being driven by one of his assistants, and then we went to this, you know, this very circuitous route to a house, and then through the back door. The windows were closed, the shades were closed, and I had my interview, went back t- Because Doug and I were in our apartment in DC 'cause I was senator at the time-
13. Mm-hmm.
14. ... and again, height of COVID. Then the vans, the press vans were parked out front, and we would just wanna go for a walk. Remember, during COVID, everyone just wanted to get some fresh air. They, must have thought we couldn't see them. (laughs) Uh, they were, like, in unmarked vans. So from time to time, I just walked up to them and say, "Look, we're going to get some coffee. Can I bring you anything back?"
15. (laughs)
16. "We'll be right back." Right? The day I actually g- got the call from, from Joe Biden asking me to run with him was the same day earlier, where one of my girlfriends has a house in Virginia, and it was the end of summer, and she had all these beautiful end of summer tomatoes.
17. Oh.
18. I like to cook. She brought me this big box of tomatoes, and I was gonna make a bunch of marinara-
19. Mm-hmm.
20. ... and freeze it. Then I get the call from him. I said, "Yes, of course." And I don't know, it felt like within seconds, a parade of people walk into our apartment with a parade of binders, sit down, everyone's in masks.... to tell us, "Okay, this is what the campaign's gonna be." And because I hate to waste food, every one of them walked out with me handing them Donitos- (laughs)
21. (laughs)
22. ... as they left. (laughs)
23. I'm so intrigued to know. I've done many interviews in my life. I've been in a couple of interviews myself. How does someone get interviewed to be the vice president? Like, what are the questions one is asked?
24. Well,
30:47 – 33:53
The VP and Presidential Interview Process
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  having been in the position of both being the interviewer and the interviewee-
2. Yeah.
3. ... um, it really, as much as anything, comes down to chemistry.
4. Oh, okay.
5. Because by the time that that interview's happening, it's usually narrowed down to about three people. So all the vetting has been done. I mean, my, the vetting... I had such a truncated experience when I was running for president, of, of just a couple of weeks. But I think Joe Biden took like nine weeks-
6. Mm-hmm.
7. ... to make a decision, and so there's vetting. When I was being vetted for vice president, I had a, I don't know, nine-hour interview with a lawyer, going through everything, everything, my taxes, my professional record, everything that was... everything, everything, everything. I mean, talk about a colonoscopy. (laughs)
8. Oh, yeah. (laughs)
9. 'Cause it was. Just virtually, that's kinda-
10. (laughs)
11. ... what it was. And so when all of that has been done, and it's kind of green light, green light through that, then it's about sitting down and just deciding, um... because it, it, it's gonna be a partnership, right? And it has to be. It has to be where you feel that you can trust someone, you c- you could work with them, you are, you're doing it for the same reasons.
12. Was it what you thought it was gonna be?
13. Being vice president?
14. Yeah.
15. I didn't know exactly what it would be, because there's nothing that can compare to it. I mean, I was the 49th vice president of United States. There have only been 48 before me, right?
16. Mm-hmm.
17. And I don't think anything can truly prepare you for what it is, because it is, um, a very unique position, where you are, again, you are number two in command.
18. Mm-hmm.
19. You... so the, the seriousness of the responsibility is, is that. Um, I, I give all credit to now the late President Jimmy Carter, who decided when he was president, having come off of, you know, Kennedy and Nixon and everything, he decided that the vice president should be given greater responsibilities than had been the case, because God forbid something happens to the president, there should be a smooth succession. And so Walter Mondale was his vice president, and was the first to have an office in the West Wing.
20. Mm-hmm.
21. The responsibilities were, again, to meet with world leaders. The responsibilities were to travel the country, um, on behalf of our administration and our policies. Um, it's, it's an incredible responsibility. And, um, you know, meeting with the variety of people who, for the most part, just want us to achieve good things.
22. When I was reading your book, 107 Days, one of the, one of the really surprising things was, but also makes sense when I understand human nature, was that y- you talk about how some of the president's
33:53 – 37:36
Staff Suppressed My Accomplishments
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  staff were basically suppressing you a little bit, suppressing your accomplishments, because you're a threat to them.
2. Mm-hmm.
3. And you, I think you were told pretty early on, or you'd heard pretty e- early on from a chief of staff that the, the vice president is kind of seen as a threat to the president.
4. So the lore has it that the outgoing chief of staff to the president will tell the incoming chief of staff to the incoming president, regardless of political f- party, "Rule number one, watch the vice president." (laughs) Lore has it that that's the case, and, um, and then I had, of course, run against Joe Biden. I was very and acutely aware that I would have to, over and over again, prove my loyalty, that it wouldn't be assumed.
5. You say in the book, "The president's staff was adding fuel to negative narratives that sprung up about me."
6. Yeah.
7. "The president's inner circle seemed fine with it. Indeed, it seemed as if they decided I should be knocked down a little bit more."
8. Yeah.
9. I was shocked when I read that, but at the same time, understood it-
10. Mm-hmm.
11. ... because it's human nature, but also shocked, because one wouldn't expect that.
12. Well, it's c- and it was counterproductive. It was absolutely counterproductive.
13. Was there a particular moment where you realized that this was happening for the first time?
14. To be candid with you, I had a sense of it for quite some time, but it was after the election that I really started to hear the stories about it. I mean, I, I had a sense of it. It was clear to me, in terms of just the challenges with getting them to uplift, getting them to defend, especially when there were inaccurate, unfair attacks, and then I started to hear more stories after.
15. And what you mean by that is when there were unfair media attacks on you, that could quite easily have been-
16. Debunked.
17. ... rebuttaled or debunked.
18. Yes, yes.
19. There was no i- desire to debunk them.
20. There was, th- their, the staff and the resources under the president, as compared to the vice president, are enormous.
21. Mm-hmm.
22. And to the extent that the vice president is being attacked, resources were available, but not used to defend the vice president in the way that they could have, that would've inured to the benefit of everyone involved.
23. 'Cause that's what I think. There is an argument to say it was in their interests, because if the, if y- if you and Joe Biden are strong, you're more li- Joe Biden's more likely to then win the next election.
24. Exactly. That's my point. We rose and fell together.
25. Yeah.And did, did he, did Joe Biden know that that was happening?
26. I don't know if he did.
27. But it's the staff underneath him that are in charge of that?
28. Yeah.
29. Okay. So they- Would they- So you're saying that- that you think they, they wanted you to be weaker in public perception because that kinda keeps you in your place?
30. I think that that was part of it. I do. I think that they decided that, you know, there are far too many people in this world and in professional life who approach things with a zero-sum game.
37:36 – 38:24
Frustration Over Lack of Recognition
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  I read through all the research of the things that you had accomplished, I wasn't aware.
2. I know.
3. There doesn't seem to be a megaphone shouting about the things you accomplished, so, um-
4. It's very frustrating. I can't even tell you. Frustrating and painful.
5. Really?
6. And, well, and also, not f- just for me, but for the people who knew my career and knew what was not being said and what was being said.
7. What wasn't being said?
8. The accomplishments. The, um, the, the, the credibility of, um, of my leadership.
9. They thought that, uh, you say this on page 51, if you were shining then Joe Biden was dimmed. So, it was very much in their interests to
38:24 – 45:13
Kamala’s Relationship With Biden
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  make sure you were dimmed, one- one could argue then, so that Joe Biden was shining.
2. Yeah, and that was, um ... Again, it was very short-sighted.
3. Are you friends with Joe Biden?
4. Yes.
5. Is the relationship good?
6. It's a good relationship. I just talked to him two days ago. He called me for my birthday.
7. Is it ... Is it complicated?
8. Yes, it's very complicated. It is. And as I write in the book, I, um ... It is very complicated. I have a great deal of affection for him. Um, and there were times that I've been quite candid about where he greatly disappointed me. And frankly, you know, angered me. Yep.
9. Can you give me context on that? Uh, th- uh, where he disappointed and angered you?
10. So, I write, ff- um ... And I ... You know, I th- I th- I thought about this. Was I gonna write about it or not? And I, I decided in writing this book I was gonna just be honest, and these are the facts, and the reader can take what they want from it. On the day of the debate, my debate with Trump ... And, uh, you know, d- So, going into a presidential debate is an incredibly intense and intensive project, including what has historically happened that we even called debate camp. (laughs)
11. Yeah. I haven't gone to debate-
12. Can you imagine? And it's no camp at all. It's going into, um, where you basically are sequestered for a period of time immediately before the debate.
13. Ssh-
14. (laughs) Where did you get all of these? This is Philippe, who played Donald Trump.
15. In your debate camp?
16. In my debate camp, and he never broke character, ever.
17. So this is a fake Trump that was brought in?
18. This is the fake Tr- He would do the, uh, makeup, the orange makeup, the long red tie. He was just awful.
19. (laughs)
20. Awful, awful, in the best way, in trying to get me prepared, and, um ... And there were a lot of people like Philippe. There were a lot of people who are ... You know, I've, I'm very fortunate. I have people who have been with me for years and years and years through these various offices, and, uh, you know, even if they go t- onto different positions, they always come back when needed. And so debate camp was this intense, basically, uh, a preparation process where you i- i- you know, your team will basically try to ... They'll break you and then build you back up. So the day of the debate was after that intense period of preparation, and then that morning I had a meeting with my team. I thought it was gonna be more prep, but they actually were wonderful and just basically said to me, "You're ready." So, okay, then being a woman running for president and many women in various high-level positions get their hair and makeup done. (laughs)
21. Mm-hmm.
22. Back to your point about presentation. And it can take hours.
23. Mm-hmm.
24. Hair and makeup got done. I'm in the hotel room with Doug, with my husband, and the president calls, and I, they- I was told that he wanted to call me so that I'd be ready, and I was so sure it was to back me up and go, go get 'em. And he did say that for the first beat, and then he went on to talk about a group of people in Pennsylvania who were saying bad things about me because they heard I was saying bad things about him, and when I hung up the phone, I was just ... I was, I was unbelievable, and I was ... Yes, I was angry and deeply disappointed. Uh, it just, it was so unnecessary. There are only two people in the world other than me that has debated this guy, Hillary Clinton and him. And you know what it's like. It's ... Going into a debate with the stakes being that high and, and Trump hadn't agreed to another debate-The stakes were so high. So, that's an example of what I mean.
25. You took something from that. You took a, an underlying message about one's intentions from that, 'cause I would. If someone called me in the lead up to d- debate prep and said something like that to me, I would assume that they don't want the best for me.
26. My takeaway is his motivation was all about himself.
27. Mm. That's what I would assume from that.
28. Yeah.
29. I would assume that.
30. Yeah, yeah, right.
45:13 – 49:14
Biden Was Talked Into the Debate
1. SBSteven Bartlett
2. Mm-hmm.
3. I s- I stay up and watch all the debates. I always have since I was a kid.
4. Uh-huh.
5. I watched that debate, but the debate that came before with Biden and Trump, it was so apparently clear-
6. Yeah.
7. ... that this was not okay.
8. Yeah.
9. And it felt like, it felt like the whole of the Democratic side of politics was pretending everything was okay.
10. Mm-hmm.
11. That's kind of my observation from the UK. I was like, "Why are they all pretending everything's fine?" But this was clearly an individual that was very much struggling with articulation, with ideas.
12. Yeah.
13. And in the face of someone like Trump, who, to his credit, is able to pounce on that, to be very quick-
14. Well, and, and he, and he interestingly enough, because of course I watched that debate very closely for many, many reasons (laughs) . Including, um, I had four interviews right after his debate-
15. Okay.
16. ... to speak on behalf of the president during the debate. And what was interesting in that debate was also to watch how it's a very rare circumstance that you see Donald Trump actually moderate. It was fascinating.
17. You must have known. You must have... You s- you sat there... Well, you were in LA at the time, right?
18. I was in LA at the Fairmont Hotel-
19. Watching.
20. ... watching.
21. And what was going on?
22. Taking vigorous notes. I had ordered, you know, like they had a little crudites plate and I was like, "No, this is a pizza night." I ordered pizza for everyone. I had my... a, a number of people with me, but I had a tight group of people with me in the room. He called me from debate camp.
23. Mm-hmm.
24. The president did, Biden did, and I could tell something was a little off, and I was concerned about... I, I just... He, I don't think he wanted to debate is my point. He didn't want that debate. And, you know, it's like any competition you go in, whether it's your bidding for something, your... if it's sports, you gotta want it.
25. Yeah.
26. Right? If you don't wanna be in the competition, it will absolutely have an impact on your performance. And I don't think he... I'm pretty sure he did not want to debate.
27. How'd you know? What were the signs?
28. Well, we had conversations about it. I think he got talked into it. And in any event, so I'm watching the debate with my tight team. I wanted it to be a small team so I could just be candid as it's happening 'cause I know I have four interviews right after. And, you know, in every debate, I don't care who you are, there will be a statistic wrong or, you know, you name this country, but it was that country. That always happens. There is no such thing as a perfect debate. So there will be something to clean up.
29. Yeah.
30. And I expected that. And then, you know, we saw what we all saw.
49:14 – 54:26
What It Was Like Debating Trump
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  working." (laughs)
2. Yeah, because he's so predictable that way.
3. What were those things for you?
4. Well, the first thing is that we had empty pads on our, um, podium and in, in the debate camp, and then therefore when I walked on stage, after I shook his hand and went back to my podium, I wrote a smiley face. And 'cause I just decided I was gonna have fun. Because one of the things about these kinds of s- th- debates in particular is the person who's having fun wins.
5. That's so true. We watched it back-
6. Right?
7. ... the other day.
8. You did?
9. And you were smiling.
10. Uh-huh.
11. And you, you looked like you were enjoying it.
12. Uh-huh.
13. And he looks frustrated.
14. Yeah.
15. So that was intentional, was that-
16. Yeah.
17. ... if you look like you're having fun-
18. Well, have fun, but though not just look-
19. Yeah.
20. ... 'cause I think it's very difficult to look like you're having fun if you're not, right?
21. Yeah, yeah, okay.
22. Um, so you've gotta find, you've g- you have to find, you have to... This is, uh, true for life. You gotta see the humor in it.
23. Mm-hmm.
24. Otherwise, it's just gonna undo you, especially if you're dealing with heavy stuff. You've gotta see the humor in it. And, you know, like when he pulled out the cats and dogs thing, I couldn't believe it. I couldn't because here's what happened, so I didn't know that he, that this was being said, right?
25. Let's give context for anyone that doesn't know.
26. Okay, yes, right.
27. Yeah.
28. You, well-
29. Well, so from what I understand, it is faint in my memory, but, um, there was this, like, crazy rumor that I think it was im- illegal immigrants were eating cats and dogs.
30. That, that Haitian immigrants, regardless of their legal status-
54:26 – 1:00:37
Trump Targets the Weak
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  scapegoating, distracting, right, from what's really occurring, including like this whole thing where he's coming down so hard on, with these mass deportations, which is picking up a lot of American citizens, by the way, in the process, hardworking people in the process. And what he would have people believe is that your predicament-... is because this is what he actually is trying to sell. Your predicament is because of relatively powerless people, so you don't focus on the powerful people. He's basically saying to the American people, "You have less because of people who have even less than you."
2. Here's the counterpoint, it works.
3. Yes, evidently. But there is- p- you know, but at some point, the veneer and the, the, the deflection has to wear off. I don't know when exactly that is going to happen. I think that, you know, listen, um, the tariffs taking hold, and when we get around to the holiday season, and people realize how many toys are made in China, what strengthens that approach is the rapid amount of disin- disinformation that is spreading. It's s- so much and it just spreads like wildfire. And trying to stay in front of that with fact, much less, to your point, practical messaging and logic, it is a real challenge.
4. It's funny 'cause I, I sit here a lot with neuroscientists and psychologists-
5. Mm.
6. ... who tell me about how the brain works.
7. Mm-hmm.
8. And they, at, at a simple level, they talk about these two parts of the brain, which is like the rational, prefrontal cortex-
9. Yeah.
10. ... and then the emotional center, like the limbic system, the amygdala.
11. Right. Yeah.
12. And they always tell me-
13. Yeah.
14. ... that most memorable, um, the part of the brain that holds memories the easiest and the best and that garners the most attention is the emotional center of the brain, the amygdala. So if I say-
15. Mm-hmm.
16. ... that these people, these brown people are coming over, and they're rapists and murderers-
17. Yeah.
18. ... it's much, it's much more emotionally-
19. (laughs) Mm-hmm.
20. ... captivating than you telling me about, like-
21. Statistics on-
22. ... statistics. I, yeah, it's not-
23. ... on how America recovered faster than any so-called wealthy country economically from the pandemic.
24. Yeah, I- I'll forget that within 10 seconds of you just saying it.
25. I know.
26. But the rapists and murderers thing-
27. I know.
28. ... like, my objective sense goes, "Th- well, no. Come on."
29. Mm-hmm.
30. "It's not the problem." But there's part of me that remembers that, and that's even as s- someone who I think is relatively informed on the r- the reality of the situation. I still... I remember, um, Dr., I think it was Dr. Tali Sharot, she's a neuroscientist, so she understands that vaccines don't give kids autism.
1:00:37 – 1:01:39
Ads
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  do. And one of the recent challenges I've set to the team at FlightX is to find ways to save our company more time. And in that conversation, Fiverr Pro, who are a sponsor of this podcast, came up. Fiverr Pro, if you don't know, is like a strategic lever we pull. It's a marketplace of experts across 750 different categories, every single one of them hand-vetted for quality, and they have enterprise-grade reliability. And because I'm quite curious about what's possible with something like Fiverr Pro, we're gonna go one step further, and over the next few weeks, we're running an experiment with Fiverr Pro to see just how much time we can save and how much we can unlock...... using their talent to accelerate our business. So let's see how it goes. And in the meantime, if you're looking for a player talent to give your team time back, head to fiver.com/diary and get 10% off your first order when you use my code Diary. A word you said there, um, piqued my interest, which is the word "independent media."
2. Yes.
3. I am independent media.
4. Bless you.
5. And I'm in a group of my peers, like,
1:01:39 – 1:07:09
Podcasting Power & Not Going on Joe Rogan
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  the big podcasters in the world like Joe Rogan, et cetera, and Alex Cooper. I know whose show-
2. Yeah. Yeah.
3. ... you went on and, um, in, as part of your campaign. The media landscape is changing before our eyes.
4. Yes, rapidly.
5. You're sat in a set now. You're the Madam Vice- Vice President. You're sat in effectively my kitchen. (laughs)
6. Yeah.
7. My old kitchen where they started, you know? And that's crazy.
8. Yeah.
9. Like 20 years ago, the thought that you'd come to my kitchen is such a crazy thing.
10. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
11. But it, it's in part now because of the democratization of these platforms-
12. Right.
13. ... and creating the content is much cheaper, and we have distribution now across these big platforms.
14. Mm-hmm.
15. Many would say that it changed the course of the election, podcasting.
16. Mm-hmm.
17. Not just the podcast you did or didn't go on, but just the conversations that take place-
18. Yeah.
19. ... on these podcasts.
20. Yeah.
21. And as I have to say, you know, as podcasters, we don't have the same rigor as traditional journalists-
22. Right.
23. ... who I respect a lot. We don't have the same teams and-
24. Right.
25. ... real-time fact-, all those kinds of things. Podcasting, there was lots of conversation around you going on Joe Rogan's show or not going on Joe Rogan's show.
26. Which I write about.
27. What is the, what is the truth there, for anyone that hasn't yet read the book? Um, because Trump did like 100 million views on Joe Rogan's show. And it, and three hours sat there getting to know Trump, and f- for better or for worse, you probably walked away from that conversation feeling like you knew who he was.
28. I wanted to do Joe Rogan's show, and there was a lot of games being played, but I wanted to do Joe Rogan's show. I think podcasting is a very powerful medium for people to get information. And-
29. Mm-hmm.
30. And to your point, a lot of people, that is a main source of information. And it's important for us to support that.
1:07:09 – 1:09:41
What Would Make You Run for President Again?
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  I think in 20 years ago, the whole strategy of businesses and brands and CEOs, executives-
2. Mm-hmm.
3. ... was to basically be black boxes where the PR team paints the perception on the outside.
4. Mm-hmm.
5. And in this digital world where it's like the media and platforms are distributed, and all of my employees here have cameras on them at all times.
6. Yeah. Yeah.
7. The, the defense is like-
8. Yeah.
9. ... transparency, because I'm not gonna let you craft my narrative.
10. No.
11. You're gonna see it.
12. That's why I wrote the book.
13. Exactly.
14. History is gonna write about those 107 days, and I'm not gonna let-... that piece of American history be written without my voice being present.
15. Are you gonna run again?
16. I don't know.
17. 'Cause I looked at the polls, I looked at the polls and you're leading for the Democratic side.
18. Yeah.
19. And there isn't really a clear Democratic candidate. I, I interviewed Gav- Gavin Newsom as well, but when I look at the polls, you're still leading.
20. Yeah.
21. You don't know?
22. I don't know, honestly.
23. I feel like you know in your heart.
24. What do I know in my heart?
25. I feel like you know if you're, you're gonna run in your heart, or if you have a calling or a feeling to... right? Is something germinating?
26. I, you know, I'm focused on the book tour, sincerely.
27. Yeah.
28. And part of how I'm feeling right now, part of the reason I didn't run for Governor of California, I really don't wanna be transactional right now. You know, I don't, I don't wanna be present because I'm asking for a vote.
29. Okay. Yeah. What's the case for running again, and what's the case for not running again?
30. Hmm. I think the case for running again is if I can make a difference. Honestly, if I can make a difference. You know? If I feel that I can offer something as President of the United States that would be not only uplifting to the American people, but would be, um, about, you know, getting us on a correct trajectory.
1:09:41 – 1:12:03
Why It's Difficult to Run for President
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  for President should really take very seriously the decision, 'cause it is not for the faint of heart. You have to be able to take a punch and throw a punch, but you gotta be able to take a punch.
2. A lot of punches.
3. Yeah. There's something that comes with success, whether you're running for President of the United States, build a successful business, have a public profile, um, which is among the, the, the difficult aspects of it. And there are so many positive aspects, but among the difficult aspects is putting yourself out there in a way that you invariably will be in a position, hopefully not with a lot of people, but where you will be misunderstood. That's an awful feeling.
4. Yeah, it is. Yeah.
5. Oh, it's an awful feeling...
6. Yeah.
7. ... to be misunderstood. In this environment in particular, invariably, you will put yourself in a position where some people will hate you. It's awful. They don't know you, but they'll hate you. And so to do anything that is about distinguishing yourself by virtue of the thing you can offer or a differentiation from yourself and others of, you know, in a similar category, it, it exposes you to a lot. Um, and so you have to know why you're doing it. And I believe that you have to do it for something that is bigger than yourself. Not about your own power, not about your ego, not about your entitlement. It has to be... Because to endure the, the, the, the, the s- not just the process of getting into the job, but the job itself, you gotta be clear about why you're there.
8. On that night when you, the results come in and you realize that the election hasn't gone your way and that Trump is going to be elected, what would I have seen if I was a, a fly on the wall in the room?
9. I was
1:12:03 – 1:17:18
Kamala Was in a State of Shock
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  in a state of shock.
2. Really?
3. Mm-hmm.
4. Did you think i- uh, the day before that you were going to win-
5. Mm-hmm.
6. ... the election?
7. I did.
8. Yeah?
9. I did.
10. And so when did the, the proverbial penny drop?
11. When I got a call from my campaign manager that it looks like we need 200,000 more v- more votes that we can't find, meaning it's just the map, the numbers.
12. Mm-hmm.
13. And the thing I kept saying over and over again, I was in a state of shock, I, I was, I was so inarticulate, but maybe very articulate. What I kept saying over and over again is, "My God, my God, my God."
14. Really?
15. Mm-hmm. Over and... I couldn't stop. I, um, I haven't felt that emotion, anything similar to the emotion I felt that day in for quite some time, um, other than the grief I felt when my mother died. I fe- I knew what was gonna happen to our country. I knew, I knew the harm that was gonna happen to people. And I, I knew it. I knew what was gonna happen. You know, it's, um, it's not, like, it's not about winning versus losing. It was never... It was... I knew the consequence of the outcome of that election, and that pained me so. I knew what was gonna happen.
16. I can still see the pain in your face.
17. Oh, it's awful.It's awful. You look at what's happening, it's- I mean, uh, it- it's awful what's- Right now, the man is building a ballroom for a bunch of his rich friends while millions and millions of people are about to lose their health coverage, in terms of them being able to afford premiums for their healthcare. You look at the weaponization of the Department of Justice against political enemies, how titans of industry are so afraid, that the capitulation that we're seeing across the board, whether it be universities, law firms, media companies. Eh, what's happening around gutting the Department of Education, l- lunch programs for- for- for low-income children. IED- uh, uh, uh, IEPs, individual education plans, for- for- t- special needs kids. Have- I- it- recently, I'm hearing the stories from mothers in particular, whose children have special needs and they can't get an IEP. These are babies, the children who are most in need, their parents who are struggling. If you know a parent who has a special needs child, what that means to their life emotionally, physically, financially, and- and we're not even giving them assistance with their educational program for their children. Meanwhile, you're building a- a gilded ballroom. So the harm is extraordinary. All those working people, the tariffs, what this is meaning for people. He- he made a promise that on day one, he was gonna bring down prices, and prices are higher for groceries, inflation is higher, unemployment is higher. And by the way, Steven, it must be said, the failure of the Democratic Party will be, going forward, to overlook the fact that it is bigger than this one guy. It is not just about this one person who occupies the Oval Office. We are witnessing what is the swift implementation, a high-velocity event, that is the swift imple- implementation of a plan that has been decades in the making. The strategy for dealing with this moment has to include having some historical perspective on how we got here. That Project 2025 didn't just fall out of the sky. The idea of going after public education, that's not new. The Federalist Society, the Heritage Foundation, what's- what- the- the gerrymandering of districts, the- the packing the Court. This stuff, this is about a- an agenda that is not gonna begin and end with one person, and the destruction is profound. There are- there are, however, a small group of people who have access to the power and are close to the power who are doing quite well. The rest, we look what- what's gonna happen, in terms of working people.
18. Does the... again, as an objective observer, the Democratic Party needs to take responsibility for... you know, 'cause the US operates as a sort of two-party
1:17:18 – 1:19:36
What Democrats Must Do to Win Back the People
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  system-
2. Right.
3. ... where it's kind of like this person versus this person, left versus right.
4. Right.
5. The left lost. They played it wrong. From the- th- the Democratic's perspective, they're paying the price of losing the game of chess, and-
6. Mm-hmm.
7. ... so I think about the Democratic Party and, you know, it's- it- they can point at the- the consequences of losing that game, but I feel like the Democratic Party needs to get their shit together so that they don't l- lose the game again.
8. I agree.
9. And that's the personal responsibility point, which is like how do- how do you stop yourself from finding yourself in a situation where, at the last minute, Joe Biden has pulled out with 100 days to go and no one mentioned it. I mean, you say in the book that you- you- you, at the time, thought of it as grace. You talk about this on page 46.
10. Right.
11. You say you thought it was grace to not basically mention that there was a problem and- and grace not to tell Joe Biden to pull out earlier.
12. Yeah.
13. But actually, in hindsight, you now think it was probably reckless not to tell him to pull out.
14. On my part, yeah.
15. So, uh, and what did- what did- what is that to you? What does the Democratic Party need to- to do to...
16. Uh, first of all, y- you know, if I had- if I had done it over, again, part of the reflection. Um, you know, we had the infrastructure deal, we had the CHIPS Act, so we're building back up America's infrastructure is 150 years old. CHIPS is about m- manufacturing chips, um, and US manufacturing, both incredibly important. If I had to do it over again, I would have first gone with our family policy, that was about extension of the child tax credit, affordable childcare, paid family leave. We needed to deal with the immediate issues affecting the American people. In fact, that's why I ran for the 107 days on those issues, including having Medicare cover, for example, for people in the sandwich generation who are taking care of young children and older parents, Medicare cover home healthcare, right?
17. Mm-hmm.
18. Why I offered for small businesses that they would get a $50,000 tax credit because nobody can s- for start-up small businesses, 'cause nobody can start up a small business on a $5,000 tax credit, right? So there's-
19. Do you think the left is somewhat seen as the enemy of entrepreneurship?
20. I think there-
21. If anyone.
22. I think there is that perception. I don't know if that is the case in reality, but I think we need- we have some work to do-
23. Yeah.
1:19:36 – 1:24:04
Is the Left Against Entrepreneurship?
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  'Cause I- 'cause I-
2. ... to- to fix... I mean, I- I talk about in the book, for example, I think it was a mistake to not invite Elon Musk when we had, um... And I'm no fan of his, but I admire his work as an innovator-
3. Mm.
4. ... and, um, as- as-You know, the- what he has done in terms of American manufacturing of electric vehicles. We should have had him at the White House when we had all the other electric vehicle- American electric vehicle manufacturers, right?
5. I think this is part of the problem. When I read that, I was really happy to read that 'cause you can disagree with someone, in part, but still have the nuance-
6. You have to.
7. ... to be able to acknowledge, "This part's good." But if you just shut them out because of one thing, then you really drive division.
8. I mean, this gets back to my earlier point about what's the motivation for the decisions that a leader makes. And the motivation I- has to be, what is for the greater good? And, and have the ability to put aside, uh, you know, those things that may- may fall in the context of being more personal.
9. Mm-hmm.
10. But I think we have to do a better job of also focusing on being a bit more bold. For example, I think we should reduce voting age to 16. I'll tell you why. So Gen Z, they're aged about 13 through 27. They've only known the climate crisis. They missed substantial parts of their education because of the pandemic. If they're in high school or college, especially in college, it is very likely that whatever they've chosen as their major for study may not result in an affordable wage. They've coined the term climate anxiety to describe fear of not only being able to buy a home, but that, f- fear it'll be wiped out by extreme weather, but fear of having children. Um, it is expected that Gen Z will have 10 to 12 jobs in their lifetime. They are a larger number than boomers. They're a specific generation of people who are going to impact our nation and the world. And I think we must invest in them, but I think that they are rightly impatient with a lot of what is the tradition of leadership right now. And if they were able to vote, because they know everything that's happening right now is gonna impact them more than anybody older than them, for the most part, in terms of how these systems work. If they're voting right now, at 16 and up, they're gonna be talking about the importance of climate, they're gonna be talking about the importance of figuring out how AI is gonna affect future of the workforce. They're gonna be focused on what are we really doing about affordable housing? And basically, in politics, here's the- the hard truth about this. There are two centers of power that tend to influence how politicians think: groups that vote the most and people who write the most checks. And I'm gonna go every day with the people, the people, and- and thinking about how do we strengthen people actually going to the polls and voting? Back to my point, in 2024, one-third of the electorate didn't vote. Let's focus on why. And are we talking with them? Are we offering them bold solutions? Are we, uh, bringing ideas forward that are speaking to their immediate needs? Are we, are we doing it in an effective way? Back to your point about podcasts and other mediums.
11. If you run again, do you think you'll go into those more right-leaning environments, media environments? Would you go on, you know, I'm not saying Joe's right-wing, but would you go on Joe's show?
12. I would certainly, I would go on Joe's show if- if I'm not running. I have a lot to say.
13. Do you know when you'll make a decision? Like what's the timeframe for someone?
14. I don't know. I mean, I- I don't know. I obviously, at some point, will need to make the decision. I haven't thought about the timeline. Probably in the next year. I mean, it's, what is it, November of '28. Primaries would be in June.
15. And since that day when Trump won the election and you were sat there saying, "Oh God, oh God," under your breath, how has the balance of that decision shifted over time?
1:24:04 – 1:25:20
Have You Changed Since the Election?
1. SBSteven Bartlett
  Has the conviction grown from that moment? Like, in that, if I had asked you in that moment when you were saying, "Oh God, oh God," under your breath, would you have said never again? And today, are you more on the side of potentially?
2. That's a great question. I think, well, I could start with this. I think my family would have said never again. I think that as time has gone by, um, and, and people have had a chance, including myself, to kind of sit with it, reflect on it, writing the book was very cathartic, um, being away from it in terms of space and time, it- it has a way of mitigating the pain of what that process was.
3. Just like grief.
4. Yeah.
5. You used the word grief to describe that feeling.
6. Yeah.
7. So you get to acceptance at some point and...
8. Yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah, you're right. That's right. And you get to process it in a way that also is about what's my role to play and what could I have done differently as a way to help guide future decisions, whatever that be.
9. I've built companies from scratch and backed many more. And there's a blind spot that I keep seeing in early stage founders. They spend very little time thinking about HR. And it's not because they're reckless or they don't care.
1:25:20 – 1:27:25
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1. SBSteven Bartlett
  It's because they're obsessed with building their companies, and I can't fault them for that. At that stage, you're thinking about the product, how to attract new customers, how to grow your team, really how to survive. And HR slips down the list because it doesn't feel urgent. But sooner or later, it is. And when things get messy, tools like our sponsor today, Justworks, go from being a nice to have to being a necessity. Something goes sideways and you find yourself having conversations you did not see coming. This is when you learn that HR really is the infrastructure of your company. And without it, things wobble. And Justworks stops you learning this the hard way. It takes care of the stuff that would otherwise drain your energy and your time, automating payroll, health insurance benefits, and it gives your team human support at any hour. It grows with your small business from startup through to growth, even when you start hiring team members abroad. So if you want HR support that's there through the exciting times and the challenging times, head to justworks.com now. That's justworks.com.
2. All right, guys. I'm gonna go get Steve. The guest is here. (knock on door) Ready?
3. Come in.
4. Oh my God, Steve. (laughs)
5. What?
6. What are you doing?
7. This is a Bon Charge face mask. It's, uh, good for blemishes, wrinkles, and it clears up the skin. It's red light. Have you not used it before?
8. No.
9. Never tried this before. It's, um, it's really, really good. It shines red light on your face, which helps increase and boost collagen production. I actually found that out 'cause of the missus, seen her wearing it. She terrified me a couple of nights in a row. Um, I thought it was to scare people with, but actually, it's really, really good for your skin. So they are a sponsor of the podcast, and, uh, I've been using it every day for about a year and a half now.

Episode duration: 1:45:57

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Intro

How Are You Feeling?

Will It Get Worse Before It Gets Better?

We Spoke to Your Husband

Why Do You Want to Protect People?

Kamala’s Law Career

The Worst Thing You Faced in Your Career

Managing Stress and Responsibility

Kamala at 25 vs. Kamala Today

When Did You Decide to Run for President?

Does Impostor Syndrome Ever Go Away?

Experiencing Prejudice

How Do You Earn Respect as a Leader?

Why Kamala Dropped Out of the 2019 Race

The VP and Presidential Interview Process

Staff Suppressed My Accomplishments

Frustration Over Lack of Recognition

Kamala’s Relationship With Biden

Biden Was Talked Into the Debate

What It Was Like Debating Trump

Trump Targets the Weak

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Podcasting Power & Not Going on Joe Rogan

What Would Make You Run for President Again?

Why It's Difficult to Run for President

Kamala Was in a State of Shock

What Democrats Must Do to Win Back the People

Is the Left Against Entrepreneurship?

Have You Changed Since the Election?

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