Lessons From 50 Of The Worlds Greatest Minds with Jake Humphrey | E59

1. 0:00 – 1:00

   Intro

   1. SBSteven Bartlett0:00

      This week on the Diary of a CEO, we have a returning guest, Jake Humphreys. He is an entrepreneur. He is a TV presenter. He's also now a podcaster. And Jake has spent the last year on his podcast sitting down with some of the most high-performance people, some of the most accomplished people in their industries from acting, to business, to sports, you name it. And so because of that experience, because of all the insights he's gained over the last year since we last spoke, I wanted to sit down with him and compare notes. We have a lot of high-performance people on this podcast too. I wanted to understand the similarities. I wanted to pick into the minds of some of the guests and what he's learned from them. How are they the same? What makes them different? And that's what we're gonna talk about today. So without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett and this is the Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. (lively music)

2. 1:00 – 8:17

   What are the key lessons you've learnt in the last year

   1. SBSteven Bartlett1:00

      You've, um, you've had, what, 30 people on your podcast to date.

   2. JHJake Humphrey1:05

      Yeah.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett1:05

      You've got a lot more coming up. One of the key questions that I, that I wanted to ask you, because it's, you know, something that I ask myself is, what are those, like, key lessons that you've learned? You've, you've interviewed, uh, you know, high-performance athletes, actors, authors, um, and really sort of high-performance pe- people-

   4. JHJake Humphrey1:23

      Yeah.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett1:23

      ... from all industries. What are the key lessons and the themes?

   6. JHJake Humphrey1:27

      I think there is one key lesson that was summed up for me by Matthew McConaughey, the Oscar-winning actor who came on my pod recently, and his phrase is, "Don't leave crumbs." And what he means by that is, like when you're making a decision don't leave stuff behind. Don't make a bad decision now that later on you've got to go back and pick that crumb up and be regretful about it, and that's brilliant because sometimes when we talk on the podcast, we talk about really, like, big blue sky thinking. You know, like we talk to you about Social Chain, setting up Social Chain. Sometimes t- people that are listening in, that can seem, like, unreal almost, u- untouchable because it's this huge multimillion dollar business that you've created. But actually "don't leave crumbs" is about making the decisions for a big, big business like that and creating something amazing, but also, like, make sure that you don't have an extra drink in the evening in case it leaves you with a hangover tomorrow and you've got work to do. Or make sure you simply choose your clothes the night before so you're not doing it in a rush. And like I still leave crumbs all the time. Like I tell you, when we, uh, when we interviewed Matthew, like he's the first Hollywood actor we've had on the pod, so for me it was quite a big moment and I thought, "Right, I really want to be looking good for this." So I thought, "I'll have a shower and a shave before we do the interview." And I was having a shave in the bathroom. My wife was in the bath and she was gonna come down and, like, listen in the corner in my study 'cause she was like, she loves Dallas Buyers Club. She was excited. (laughs) And, uh, she... (laughs) I was having a shave and she goes, "It's 9:54." I was like, " (gasps) ," and I thought it was like 9:30 or something. We'd put the kids to bed. And then the next thing I know I'm running downstairs. I haven't done my hair properly. I'm on, I've got two Wi-Fis at home because our upload speed living in the countryside is horrendous. So I was then on the wrong Wi-Fi. I then looked for the script that I'd written for the questions for Matthew, couldn't find them, and I was like, "I was the last one in."

   7. SBSteven Bartlett3:14

      Really?

   8. JHJake Humphrey3:14

      I'm getting beat into the interview on my own podcast by a Hollywood actor.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett3:18

      Wow.

   10. JHJake Humphrey3:18

       And, n- I left crumbs. And now that's a good lesson for me because, uh, I do it all the time and I think that you only learn about the crumbs you leave by doing it. And I just, I just really want people... I've had a few negative comments that have come my way about the podcast. Direct messages from people saying, um, "You're getting this all wrong. We're in a global pandemic. I'm having a really hard year and here you are r- uh, with a podcast that's just celebrating success all the time and, and showing up how, um, how we're all doing badly compared to your great guests." And for me the podcast is, A, that hurts me to think that 'cause I don't want anyone to come to the High Performance Podcast and leave feeling that way. But it's the absolute total opposite of that because when we talk about what lessons can you learn from people on the podcast, the other biggest one is they mess up all the time. I think, I genuinely believe successful people make more mistakes than anybody else because they're constantly challenging themselves to do stuff and you, you're no stranger to making decisions that at the time you just simply don't know-

   11. SBSteven Bartlett4:20

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JHJake Humphrey4:20

       ... but you have to find a way of making that decision. Um, and I'm sure there are times when you've made 10 or 15 life-changing decisions in a week.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett4:28

       Mm. You know the, the, the point about those crumbs and, you know, rushing down the stairs when you realized that you were late. What could you have done in hindsight to, um, to prevent those crumbs being left behind per se?

   14. JHJake Humphrey4:40

       I just need to be really honest with myself that I have weaknesses and I need to address them rather than thinking that everything's fine. And I am notoriously late. I am always a few minutes late and always my New Year's resolution is this is the year that I'm not gonna be late. Uh, but it just shows-

   15. SBSteven Bartlett4:56

       I'm surprised, do you know, that you're late.

   16. JHJake Humphrey4:57

       I know.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett4:58

       Because, um, the industry you work in-

   18. JHJake Humphrey5:01

       I know.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett5:01

       ... is very-

   20. JHJake Humphrey5:01

       And look at all the guests I've had on my podcast. We had, um, Sir Clive Woodward who won the Rugby World Cup.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett5:06

       Yeah, yeah.

   22. JHJake Humphrey5:06

       And you think of all of the, the discipline and the rules and the mindsets you need to win a Rugby World Cup, the number one thing that stands out for him is something called Lombardi Time which was created by the players and they... Lo- Lombardi obviously is a famous name in American sports and they call it Lombardi Time 'cause it's a name that sort of resonates with winning and it was 10 minutes early. So if you say to any former England rugby player, "What's Lombardi Time?" They'll tell you, "10 minutes early." So listen, I'm hearing this stuff, Steven, on a weekly basis and still not getting it right. And I think it just goes to show that we are human. We have, we are fallible and I do think we have blind spots which there are some things some people find really hard, I don't. There are some things that is not an issue for other people and it is a recurring problem for me to, to deal with. But no one's perfect.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett5:51

       And how do you, uh, emotionally feel about the fact that you have blind spots in terms of like, do you beat yourself up about it?

   24. JHJake Humphrey5:58

       Yeah. I th- Yeah. I think so. Yeah, um-I think, uh, it's a really common phrase, isn't it, to hear that you're your own biggest critic? And I think I'm probably less my own biggest critic than I was previously. Like when I first started in my presenting career and I used to come off air on the Formula 1, I would solely focus on the bad stuff, on the issues, on the problems. And that was instilled in me by David Coulthard because he'd stepped straight out of a Formula 1 car straight into broadcasting, and TV is a friendly and lovely place to be most of the time. You know, we're really good at telling each other how great we are. And we had our first production meeting just after the first race, and I was just grateful to get through it. It, it was my first ever bit of live Formula 1, so I was just glad to have survived, so I was ready for this lovely, "You were great, you were great, you were great. This was great." We started the meeting and David Coulthard went, "Whoa, whoa. S- sorry, just can we just stop?" And that... This is unheard of. He goes, "I'm just not interested in this." And the producer was like, "Sorry, I don't, I don't understand." He's like, "I'm not interested in sitting here and going through all the good stuff. How does going through the good stuff make the boat go faster? Why are we not talking about the bad stuff?" And that was a revelation for me. I was like, "Yes! The good stuff's already good, so you focus on the good stuff." Now I have a different mindset. And bearing in mind my first race was 2009, so this is 11 years ago, and for a long time my focus was on the stuff that I was struggling with or the stuff I wasn't very good at, or the times where I didn't feel life was very good. So I would look at a bad month or a bad year and go, "Right, why was I not flowing? Why was I not really in a happy place? Why was this..." Why don't we focus more on the good stuff? And that is my mindset change. That is the thing that I... For 2021, that is gonna be my focus. Let's focus on the good stuff so we realize what the good stuff is and just do more of it. Let's focus on the times when you were flowing and when you were feeling great and when you were barreling around the place and when you were the guy and when everyone wanted to work with you. What was I doing? What was I eating? How was I sleeping? Who was I spending my time with? What was feeding me? What was making me feel fantastic? That's probably a better place to focus on, I... Particularly after the sort of crap 2020 we've all had,

3. 8:17 – 25:40

   Your experience with failure and anxiety

   1. JHJake Humphrey8:17

      I feel we've become a nation, maybe even a planet, with this, like, obsession on failure-

   2. SBSteven Bartlett8:24

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JHJake Humphrey8:25

      ... to not fail anymore, to be good, and it's almost like a badge of honor, isn't it? Like, I'm sure if you said to me, uh, three or four months ago, "How's your relationship with failure?" "Man, I love failure. Love failure. Bring failure on. That's how I learn. Failure is where I grow."

   4. SBSteven Bartlett8:37

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JHJake Humphrey8:37

      I need to be on the absolute edge so I'm failing all the time. I want to fail forwards and I want to fail often. Like, I still do, but when I fail, when I leave crumbs, when I'm late for an interview with Matthew McConaughey, I'm not thinking, "Why did that happen?" Because then I'm focusing on the failure. I will allow it to be there-

   6. SBSteven Bartlett8:55

      Yeah.

   7. JHJake Humphrey8:55

      ... and I will do my best not to do it again. But I'm gonna try for 2021 to think about the good stuff, man-

   8. SBSteven Bartlett9:00

      Hmm.

   9. JHJake Humphrey9:00

      ... and just to see how that changes things for me.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett9:03

       Super interesting. You know, uh-

   11. JHJake Humphrey9:05

       Do you focus on your failure?

   12. SBSteven Bartlett9:06

       Um, I, I don't focus on the failure. I think... I was just... I was, uh, actually asking myself that question when you were, you were talking. I was thinking, "Do I... Am I someone that dwells on failure?" To be fair, I don't. I'm very, very good at being detached from it all. I, I think I talked earlier in this podcast about this, like, um, video game mentality that I've taken on my life, where I see my, my worst days and, to be honest, a lot of... No, I think it's just my worst days as if I'm playing a video game, and that I am, I am not what's happening. And it's... And I, and I, I think that detachment from what's happening-

   13. JHJake Humphrey9:42

       That's interesting.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett9:42

       ... uh, has allowed me, in my most chaotic moments, to remain calm.

   15. JHJake Humphrey9:47

       Yeah.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett9:47

       It's allowed me to form a sort of calm within my chaos. So, if I have a big failure or I, or I really, really fuck up and I'm, I'm disappointed with myself or whatever, I'm very good at ta- detaching from that, um-

   17. JHJake Humphrey9:58

       So I think... Uh, I think the absolute, absolute ownership of what you're doing, for me, is, is powerful, which is... O- uh, is that the total opposite of what you're saying? Because I think-

   18. SBSteven Bartlett10:06

       So (laughs) -

   19. JHJake Humphrey10:06

       ... like, whatever I do, I have to absolutely believe it and own that decision-

   20. SBSteven Bartlett10:10

       Yeah.

   21. JHJake Humphrey10:10

       ... because then if it goes wrong or people question it, I can say, "Listen, (laughs) I really thought it was the right thing."

   22. SBSteven Bartlett10:14

       It's, like, uh, the emotional detachment. It's, it means that I'm not go-... I don't think that I'm going to die, although I am totally responsible for changing it. So I can think of... I'm thinking specifically about the day where, um, I, I was driving to work, get, get the emails and the text messages saying that our whole server's been hacked and every client we have has been sent really, really personal, specific abuse by them from our email server, that's come from my business partner's email, that looks like it was meant to be sent to my assistant, but the client was just accidentally CC'd in.

   23. JHJake Humphrey10:42

       When this happened?

   24. SBSteven Bartlett10:43

       This happened about four years ago, five years ago.

   25. JHJake Humphrey10:45

       Right.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett10:45

       So I'm driving to work and I'm getting all these em-... And in that moment, one has a choice whether they want to fall into the problem and become the problem and become consumed by it, or if they want to hold it out in s- in front of them and deal with it there.

   27. JHJake Humphrey10:58

       Yeah.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett10:58

       If it consumes me, I'll be crippled with anxiety, crying in the corner, "Oh, I wanna..." But if I can hold it out in front of me and realize that this isn't gonna kill me, this isn't gonna end me-

   29. JHJake Humphrey11:08

       Yeah.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett11:08

       ... this isn't... You know, but this is something that I have to deal with out in front of me, then it becomes much more, um, possible to be rational and to think in terms of probabilities. And I've come to learn, especially over the last year or two, that when you can, um, make your decisions based on probabilities of the outcome, you can make really, really good decisions.
4. 25:40 – 29:11

   What would you regret if you were to die today

   1. JHJake Humphrey25:40

   2. SBSteven Bartlett25:40

      You walk out of here today, then-

   3. JHJake Humphrey25:41

      Yeah.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett25:42

      ... touch glass, um, and bus comes, boom-

   5. JHJake Humphrey25:45

      Yeah.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett25:45

      ... it's over. What are the things you, you, you would regret not having done more of?

   7. JHJake Humphrey25:54

      Uh, traveling with the kids probably, but they're only little, they're only young. It's such a hard question for me because I think, I think probably, um, maintaining relationships with people has always been an issue for me, because I, I failed my A levels, as you know, at school, so all my mates went off to uni, so that was kind of lost 'cause they went off having fun and I redid them. And then I've always found that one of the issues with trying to really be present is that you're totally present in that part of your world at that moment, and so I was then totally plugged into life on Children's BBC. And then I got this amazing opportunity at Formula 1 and I was totally plugged into my life in Formula 1. And then I got, you know, a, a big opportunity at BT Sport and I had to make that work, so then I was totally plugged into my new producers and my, my new colleagues. And s- you know what? I had a conversation with someone the other day and they said, you know, like, "Who are you r- Who are your real friends?" It's a hard question, that, for me, once I moved beyond my wife. Because I've got four or five mates who I'm close with, but they're... I would probably name people that live on my street. Well, I've only lived there for four years. I might name a couple of parents on the school run, and my kids have only gone to that school for four years. I'd name a couple of people I've run my production company, Whisper, with, but that's only been going less than a decade. I'd now probably class Damian Hughes, who I do the High Performance Podcast with, well, I've done that for less than a year. But I'm in this, and maybe that's pro- possibly the only regret, I think. But maybe I don't need... I don't know. Maybe we don't need to hold onto people for too long. Maybe we have to accept that people come and go from our lives and that's okay.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett27:39

      And do you think it's because you, you haven't sort of pri- You said, like, you haven't in- prioritized investing in those relationships as much?

   9. JHJake Humphrey27:45

      I think it's because I'm always too invested in the thing that I'm doing at that moment. Like, I am so absolutely committed to Whisper, Coral Eyewear, the High Performance Podcast, BT Sport, my kids, my wife, and my family. There isn't an awful lot left, right?

   10. SBSteven Bartlett28:07

       I guess the question, um, the better question to ask would, would be then, but you're... are you happy? Because th- if that is the ultimate goal, then, you know-

   11. JHJake Humphrey28:15

       Yeah.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett28:15

       ... society will tell you to live, have loads of friends and do this and have this car and whatever-

   13. JHJake Humphrey28:18

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett28:18

       ... but then, uh, the question, the most important is are you happy?

   15. JHJake Humphrey28:21

       Happiest I've ever been.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett28:23

       Okay.

   17. JHJake Humphrey28:23

       I am the happiest I've ever been.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett28:25

       Yeah. So you've got to be doing something right, right?

   19. JHJake Humphrey28:27

       Yeah. I think... Yeah, I mean, I, like, I love what I do. Like, I really like work. I like getting up early. I like having five or six things on the burn all the time. I like having a whole page of, of jobs that I'm gonna do. Other people are not like that. My wife is the, the opposite. If she's got four or five jobs, she's like, "Oh, man, I feel so stressed. I've got... I don't want all this stuff." Whereas sometimes I sit down, and I'm, I'm like making a list of big things on the horizon, and I'm... I need to have a lot of them. And again, maybe I give a C to everything and I'd be better to have fewer things and give them all an A. Matthew McConaughey tells a great story about cutting off two of his big businesses because he was giving a B to five things, and he wanted to be an A in three things.

5. 29:11 – 36:46

   Are successful people happy?

   1. JHJake Humphrey29:11

   2. SBSteven Bartlett29:11

      The g- the guests you've had on the, your podcast, all these wonderful people you've met, do you sometimes get the impression that some of them aren't that happy?

   3. JHJake Humphrey29:21

      Yes. Yeah. Um-

   4. SBSteven Bartlett29:24

      It's one of the things I've learned from doing this as well.

   5. JHJake Humphrey29:26

      Yeah. It's really interesting and... And I totally get that everyone is, everyone is in it for different reasons, aren't they? Like, we spoke to Shaun Waine, who... And I would say, you know, Shaun Waine is not a household name. He's one of the most successful rugby league managers in the UK but if someone wanted to get into the High Performance Podcast and they wanted, like, a first podcast to listen to, don't just go for the big names. I'm telling you now, Shaun Waine gave us the most moving and revelatory interview, and he, in his sort of broad northern accent, he said, "You don't... I'm not bothered about being happy." He said, "I'm not, not happy. I don't care about happy." And that was not... You know, happiness was not his thing. He's con- As soon as he achieves something, within moments, it's about the next thing. And we sort of broke it down that he was very badly abused by his dad as a kid, you know, physically punched in the face by a big man often, and that his entire life, his entire energy comes from wanting to redress the balance. And he's now a rugby league coach, the m- the England rugby league coach, because he f- he has this deep-seated desire to make the lives of other people better. Now, he might personally never be happy after the story that, and the, the path that he's been through, but he's definitely making other people happy. And he is also totally comfortable with not being happy. Now, that's not everyone's story. That's his story. Um-But I certainly think that s- we, like, in the past, we've thought that success and happiness are mutually exclusive. "What do you wanna be? You wanna be successful or you wanna be happy?" How wrong are we to think like that? The very flame of success should be happiness. That should be the absolute nub, the crux of everything. What's the point otherwise, man? What is the point?

   6. SBSteven Bartlett31:23

      I, I get that a lot with, with guests that I've had on. Uh, th- they seem to... some guests seem to be very neurotically obsessed with the next thing and the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. And when you ask them to pause and reflect on, A, when this ends, or, um, or why they're doing it, it always seems to flick back to their childhood. Eddie Ham was the, was the same. Um, I know he's been on yours. He was on mine last week. And he, uh, wh- when I was talking to him about his aspirations for the future with Matchroom, he says, "I want to sell for five billion, and-"

   7. JHJake Humphrey31:50

      Yeah.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett31:50

      "... and we'll do this, and we're gonna do..." And I said, "But why do you want to sell for five billion? You're happy now." He goes, he goes, "Well, well, you know, well, we shouldn't be doing... could be, we shouldn't be selling for five billion."

   9. JHJake Humphrey31:57

      Yeah.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett31:57

       That's why I wanna do... And I go, "But why does that matter?" And he goes, and he goes back to his dad when he was younger. He goes back to the fact that his dad used to criticize him and didn't give him praise. And it's, and it's weird that those early moments have driven s-... and it's the same with me, to be honest. Th- they drove this, like, obsessive desire to just keep climbing a never-ending mountain.

   11. JHJake Humphrey32:16

       Mm-hmm.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett32:17

       Um, and I... that's a trend that I've seen in very successful guests and very successful people, is, uh, often, some kind of... it's a strange thing to say, but something that went not to plan-

   13. JHJake Humphrey32:29

       Yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett32:29

       ... when they're younger seems to be the reason that we all adore them, admire them. It's something that had hit them i- in their emotions or their wiring-

   15. JHJake Humphrey32:35

       Yeah.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett32:36

       ... that sent them into, uh, an obsessive state in, in their

   17. JHJake Humphrey32:39

       It's never as good-

   18. SBSteven Bartlett32:39

       ... perspective of

   19. JHJake Humphrey32:39

       ... as you think it'll be though, you know, when you get... when you achieve those things that you want to achieve. Like, the, the biggest thrill I've ever had was when I spent 9,750 pounds on a green MGF. It's my first ever car. I can still remember the number plate, P710 NJN. And I looked at that car... I bought it from an elderly gentleman in Colchester, and I went to his house. And I said, "I r-"... and I'd got a banker's draft, and I was working on children's BBC. And I remember he took me out to his garage. And you know those old, like, um, fluorescent light strips?

   20. SBSteven Bartlett33:10

       Yeah.

   21. JHJake Humphrey33:10

       They flicker. Tick, tick, tick-

   22. SBSteven Bartlett33:11

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JHJake Humphrey33:12

       ... tick, tick, tick before they come on.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett33:13

       (laughs)

   25. JHJake Humphrey33:13

       I remember... and it's still in my head as vivid as the day it happened. The light flicking and just lighting the car up for a second, and then it goes da-... and I looked at it, and I was like, (yawns) "I really... I cannot believe." Now, fast-forward to where I am now. You know, a successful TV presenter, invested in Coral Eyewear, run a podcast, um, have two beautiful children, um, r- have a production company. Eh, the kids and my personal relationships are aside from this, because that is, that is on a deeper level than anything else. But in terms of material successes, nothing... and I mean nothing, man. Nothing has come close to spending less than 10 grand on a green MGF. So you've got to enjoy the journey. You've got to enjoy the travel, because, A, it's not as good when you get there as you think it will be. B, you spend an awful lot more time getting there than arriving. Like, you have to answer this totally honestly. You have... you've... have you totally left Social Chain now?

   26. SBSteven Bartlett34:11

       Yeah.

   27. JHJake Humphrey34:12

       With money in the bank?

   28. SBSteven Bartlett34:13

       Yeah.

   29. JHJake Humphrey34:14

       That you wouldn't have had if you hadn't walked away from that business, right?

   30. SBSteven Bartlett34:16

       Yeah.
6. 36:46 – 41:18

   Burnout in the world of successful people

   1. SBSteven Bartlett36:47

      It's, um... I, I... but I, I have to say, I also completely agree that, uh, you know, the things that have mattered most to me professionally, uh, especially as I reflect, have been doing, as you say, doing work I love, but then, like, doing it with people I love-

   2. JHJake Humphrey36:59

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett37:00

      ... um, and a, um, a mission that's worthwhile. And this has always been... you know, people talk about this topic of burnout a lot. Um, and, uh, I tend to believe... and I'd like to get your opinion on this. I tend to believe that your-... burnout is somewhat inevitable if you're doing things that you, you don't intrinsically love doing, especially if you're doing it with people you don't, you know-

   4. JHJake Humphrey37:18

      Mmm.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett37:18

      ... really-

   6. JHJake Humphrey37:18

      Mmm.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett37:18

      ... really love as well. Um, I feel like in any facet of your life, if you're doing it too much, you don't enjoy it, the outcome is burnout. Um, but is it, is burnout a topic that's been sort of prevalent on your podcast?

   8. JHJake Humphrey37:30

      No, you know, it... I suppose partly the reason why burnout hasn't come up very often is because we're talking to people who are in the midst of their successes or who have been successful.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett37:40

      And they love what they're doing, right? Yeah.

   10. JHJake Humphrey37:41

       And they love what they're doing. They're full of passion. Whereas people who have perhaps tried to do something that wasn't quite right and have suffered burnout and it hasn't worked, we, we don't know about them because the burnout ended the dream. But-

   11. SBSteven Bartlett37:52

       It's so funny. That's such a good point that the fact that your pod... You haven't had that come up as a topic on a podcast-

   12. JHJake Humphrey37:57

       Yeah.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett37:57

       ... that speaks to people who have clearly been intrinsically driven by their passion to the very top of their game.

   14. JHJake Humphrey38:03

       Yeah. Passion is everything. You know, you said you spoke to Eddie Hearn. What's his, what's his podcast? No Passion, No Point. I mean, he is a great advocate of finding something that you believe in. But I, I also get that... Again, you had a real passion for what you do. Like I honestly, like I have a such a deep love and a passion for all the things that I'm involved in because if I didn't, then I wouldn't do them or I'd try and find something else. But there are times in my life where I've done certain things like I don't... As a TV presenter, you often get asked to do like corporates, you know, standing up at awards and things like that and you, you need to welcome people up on stage and shake hands, have a photo and I, I find them a real struggle. I don't know why. I just don't get a thrill out of doing those things. So that's a good thing for me because I, I've noticed that's something I don't like and that... For people that are listening to this thinking, "Yeah, but what, what's my passion? Like what am I?" One of, one of the really good ways of finding you is to look at all the things that is not you. Who are the people that don't make you feel good? What are the days when you feel drained and exhausted? What are the, the trips or the phone calls or the conversations or the lunches where you leave thinking, "Phew, that is... Every time I see that person, I feel like this"? If you can see the, see the stuff that isn't good for you and strip that stuff away, you will eventually, and it might take a while, be left with who you are and that's the time to really then think, "Right, what am I about? What am I as a person?" Because I don't think you... I th- You can obviously get tired and you can be ill and you can have problems, but I think with real passion, I don't think you suffer burnout because every day, I seem to get this like... So you've not got kids yet, right? But when you do, you have a-

   15. SBSteven Bartlett39:41

       I do.

   16. JHJake Humphrey39:41

       You have a-

   17. SBSteven Bartlett39:42

       Son floor over there.

   18. JHJake Humphrey39:42

       A beautiful dog fasseted by my feet.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett39:44

       (laughs)

   20. JHJake Humphrey39:44

       Remember when my daughter was born, I love her with every piece of my heart, right? I had this real fear that when my son was born, where's the love gonna come from?

   21. SBSteven Bartlett39:52

       You're joking.

   22. JHJake Humphrey39:53

       Yeah, no, you do. There's a few... That is a-

   23. SBSteven Bartlett39:54

       (laughs)

   24. JHJake Humphrey39:55

       It's quite a common thing for parents. Like my daughter had every single bit of love in my body. So does my wife obviously, we're, we're really super close, but love for your child is very different. It feels very different from the moment that child is born. And I could not have loved my daughter, not 1% more. So then my son is about to be born. My daughter's gone off to the grandparents and I'm watching my wife in labor thinking, "I've got nothing left for, for Sebastian. What's this about?" Sebastian's born and within two seconds, I love him equally. So there's no diminishing of the love for my daughter, not one bit, but all this new love has just appeared out of nowhere-

   25. SBSteven Bartlett40:37

       Mmm.

   26. JHJake Humphrey40:37

       ... and I can love my son exactly (laughs) the same? How is that possible? And it's exactly the same when you have a real passion or a real love for something. Like every day that I get up and I'm making phone calls or I'm having conversations or I'm, you know, brainstorming or blue sky thinking or thinking about guests or heading to do live television, it's all fill- it's filled up again. I'm full. I'm ready to go. You know, I don't feel like I'm... Like the cup is draining slowly because I love the stuff that I'm doing.

   27. SBSteven Bartlett41:05

       And tha- that's a great point because I think people tend to believe that passion is a singular thing.

   28. JHJake Humphrey41:09

       Yeah.

   29. SBSteven Bartlett41:10

       And they're, and they're searching for it aimlessly like it's-

   30. JHJake Humphrey41:12

       Yeah.
7. 41:18 – 49:45

   How do you deal with assholes

   1. JHJake Humphrey41:18

   2. SBSteven Bartlett41:18

      Yeah. And, you know, you've met a ton of c- s- you know, high-profile people on your, you know, from your, in... From your presenting career, but also from your podcast. I'm sure you've come across a bunch of assholes as well.

   3. JHJake Humphrey41:30

      Mm-hmm. Yes.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett41:32

      I'm not gonna (laughs) ask you to-

   5. JHJake Humphrey41:33

      (laughs)

   6. SBSteven Bartlett41:33

      I'm not gonna ask you to name them. (laughs)

   7. JHJake Humphrey41:35

      Holly Tucker on our podcast came out with a...

   8. SBSteven Bartlett41:37

      (laughs)

   9. JHJake Humphrey41:37

      You know Holly Tucker? She created-

   10. SBSteven Bartlett41:38

       Yeah, yeah.

   11. JHJake Humphrey41:38

       ... notonthehighstreet.com.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett41:39

       Yeah.

   13. JHJake Humphrey41:40

       She said, "I'd rather have a hole than an asshole."

   14. SBSteven Bartlett41:42

       (laughs)

   15. JHJake Humphrey41:43

       In other words, I would rather hang out with no one than hang out with someone that I don't like, which I, which I thought was a, which I thought was a good one. But then Matthew McConaughey said, "Do you want an asshole or an idiot? Give me the asshole because at least you know where you stand."

   16. SBSteven Bartlett41:59

       Really?

   17. JHJake Humphrey42:00

       Yeah.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett42:00

       Interesting.

   19. JHJake Humphrey42:01

       So he was like, "At least..." And I, I do relate to that somewhat. The people that I really struggle with in my life are the people who one day you see them and they're like your best mate, the next day, it's like you've never met them before.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett42:11

       Mmm.

   21. JHJake Humphrey42:11

       I do struggle with that. I, I like to know where I stand with people. I'm cool if you want... If you and me want to have like a distant professional relationship and you'll send me a text saying, "Happy New Year, hope the podcast goes well. Maybe hook up some time in 2021." And we never see each other socially and you come back on High Performance and I come back on here and we use to and fro a bit professionally. That's absolutely... That is cool. What I don't want is, "Hey, let's have a coffee. Do you want... Let's meet up in London. Yeah. Great. Oh man, it's so nice to see you. So how's things? How's life?"

   22. SBSteven Bartlett42:41

       (laughs)

   23. JHJake Humphrey42:41

       You know, we chat a bit more. "Have you got a partner? Have you... How's your dog? How's your life?" And then you hear nothing for six months and you think, "What ever happened to that dude?"

   24. SBSteven Bartlett42:48

       I'm so sorry for not-

   25. JHJake Humphrey42:48

       And then they reappear again.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett42:49

       (laughs) I'm so sorry for not texting you back.

   27. JHJake Humphrey42:51

       (laughs) That could... (laughs) There's the truth right there.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett42:52

       I feel like you're shouting at me.

   29. JHJake Humphrey42:53

       Um-

   30. SBSteven Bartlett42:54

       (laughs)
8. 49:45 – 56:52

   Do you get jealous?

   1. JHJake Humphrey49:45

      epitome. They are the worst of the worst.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett49:46

      Do you ever get jealous? Be completely honest.

   3. JHJake Humphrey49:48

      Uh, yeah. Um, I get jealous, but I only ever get jealous through comparison, and that is ridiculous, you know. You-

   4. SBSteven Bartlett49:57

      But is the nasty, is it the nasty jealous, where you're like, "Oh, why have they gotten..."

   5. JHJake Humphrey50:00

      Yeah, probably. Yeah. Yeah.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett50:02

      And so-

   7. JHJake Humphrey50:02

      But you've got... But I think that is innate. I think that is almost... There I am, giving up responsibility again for someone that talks about 100% responsibility.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett50:10

      (laughs)

   9. JHJake Humphrey50:10

      But I think there, it's innate in human nature to, to compare and to contrast and to look at someone else. So it's not a very long experience for me. I will look at someone and I'll go, "Hmm. But hey, listen, I'm so happy and I've got all this. I'm gonna..." And actually, sometimes I look at life as a graph. And you literally don't know where life is gonna take you. So let's say, like, the people that I now sit with in a TV studio, like, um, I sit with... Let's say when I, when I had Robin Van Persie, Steven Gerrard, and Rio Ferdinand were all the pundits on BT Sport, there was a time where all three of those were three of the most famous footballers in the country, earning phenomenal sums of money, competing on the world stage, representing their country, and I was a, a guy post-A-level failure trying to sort of find a job and earning 6,000 pounds a year. Now, there was a time where they were there and I was there, and our graphs over the time have done (imitates graph dropping) , and whatever's happened, look where I've ended up, sitting next to them on a TV studio. Now, it may well be that they go up there again and then something happens to me and I go down here, or it might be that I do that and they do that. But you never know where that graph is gonna go. And that is what I think is... That for me is one of the most exciting things about this world that we live in.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett51:25

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JHJake Humphrey51:25

       Like, you are only one step away from a phone call where someone goes, "Hey, guess what?" And your graph goes (imitates graph rising) . So don't worry about where other people are on that graph, because it might be in five years' time you're right alongside them.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett51:38

       I guess that's where that, that hate, a lot of the hate comes from. So if you take the jealousy feelings that even you have as, you know-

   13. JHJake Humphrey51:43

       Yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett51:43

       ... one of the nicest people I know, and you just, you know, times it by 10. But, you know, and, and that's the, you know, people (sighs) feel a certain way about their lives and how their lives are going-

   15. JHJake Humphrey51:52

       Mm-hmm. But that's because it's, it's chucked in our faces all the time.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett51:55

       Yeah.

   17. JHJake Humphrey51:55

       Like, what is Instagram if it isn't a tool for comparison?

   18. SBSteven Bartlett51:58

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JHJake Humphrey51:58

       What is it? Why are you having a great day and, you know, we, I, and I'm, we're jealous of that. Or not jealous, but we're guilty of it, making other people feel jealous of what we do. Like, we went out for a, we went for a couple of days away as a family to a lovely hotel called Cliveden. And it was lovely, but the kids, for some reason, were just badly behaved. And it does happen sometimes. And we had this meal, and it was breakfast actually, and they were like, it took ages for the food to come and the kids were, like, climbing the wall. And I said to the waiter, I goes, "I'm really sorry, but, like, we've been waiting for 20 minutes. Which is fine for me and my wife, but the kids..."

   20. SBSteven Bartlett52:30

       Yeah.

   21. JHJake Humphrey52:30

       "They need th- their... th-" And it was a posh hotel where you're trying to say, "Do you kids just stay at the table? Sit, sit nicely. Don't make too much noise." And then at the end of it, I was a stressful man.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett52:39

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JHJake Humphrey52:40

       And I said, "Hey, I tell you what, the family w- will wanna know where we are." So I get my phone out and I go, "Kids, kids, just smile," and we take a photo and we put it, we have a family WhatsApp group with Harriet's mum and dad, my mum and dad-

   24. SBSteven Bartlett52:50

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JHJake Humphrey52:50

       ... all the cousins, all the aunts and uncles, right? And we're all smiling, everything looks great. "Just had a lovely breakfast at the hotel," I said. And then the, then we get loads of messages back, like, from people like my sister going, "Oh, your, your life always looks perfect." And my brother going, "Oh, another great day for you and y-" And then I think, actually, yes. Like, I've just given them an absolute falsification of what my Sunday morning at the Cliveden house was like. That was a stressful hour, and I've taken the one thing that wasn't stressful. Why have I put that in the group? Why haven't I just gone, "Hey, guys, hope you're having a good Sunday 'cause we've just had a shit half an hour here having some breakfast, but hey, don't we all?" That's, and that's what we all do all the time. Why else do all the people you follow on Instagram put the things they put out there?

   26. SBSteven Bartlett53:31

       I, I, I've, I've... You know, I think the world has somewhat flipped, is flipping back the other way in the sense that when we all started Instagram, it was this new thing, you had these filters, and it was like, "Show the best holiday you've ever had in your life to the world." That was kind of the-

   27. JHJake Humphrey53:44

       Yeah.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett53:44

       That's the thing you'd get rewards for. And that represents, in terms of being able to relate to that or... It's like 0.0% of the viewer's life. Like, u- most of our lives, the 99% of our lives, as I've said on this podcast before, is like eating a Pot Noodle in bed.

   29. JHJake Humphrey53:59

       Yeah.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett53:59

       And now I see that the win with personal branding and building, um, an Instagram page is the antithesis of showing that. It's like, "I've just woken up with my face covered in spots." In fact, the last, you know, two, two podcasts ago, we had Chrissie on here, who's like a superstar influencer/entrepreneur, and I was trying to understand why her community are so engaged with her, so engaged with her, versus even, like, even compared to mine or other people's. And it's because she wakes up in the morning, she goes, "My face is covered in spots. Oh my God, I, I'm not gonna put the filter on today."
9. 56:52 – 1:01:36

   Connecting with our audience

   1. JHJake Humphrey56:52

      need-

   2. SBSteven Bartlett56:52

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JHJake Humphrey56:53

      ... to share more of yourself on Instagram? Like-

   4. SBSteven Bartlett56:55

      So yeah, so-

   5. JHJake Humphrey56:56

      ... what's the benefit?

   6. SBSteven Bartlett56:57

      The benefit is if I share more of my truth-

   7. JHJake Humphrey57:01

      Uh-huh.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett57:01

      ... all the, the tough stuff, which is pretty much why I started-

   9. JHJake Humphrey57:03

      Mm-hmm.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett57:03

       ... the podcast in the first place, I feel that I'm helping a lot of people. And do I enjoy helping people and getting, um, and helping them overcome their problems? Yes.

   11. JHJake Humphrey57:14

       Yeah.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett57:14

       I mean, like-

   13. JHJake Humphrey57:14

       But you do that already on this podcast, right?

   14. SBSteven Bartlett57:16

       Yeah, but I don't do it on Instagram. And I, and I, I think that do I wanna have a deeper connection with my audience on Instagram? Yes. What am I doing on Instagram? Po- predominantly just posting clothes, to be honest. So if I want to have a deeper connection with my audience on Instagram, then I should go deeper with them-

   15. JHJake Humphrey57:29

       Yeah.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett57:30

       ... as I do on this podcast because the podcast audience are like a cult, you know? They're super engaged, um, because of the depth and the realness. So I think it would make me happy in the long run.

   17. JHJake Humphrey57:39

       Mm-hmm.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett57:39

       There's a, must be a reason I don't do it.

   19. JHJake Humphrey57:41

       That's a good point, this. I mean, I ... It's been a huge revelation for me doing a podcast because when you're a football presenter you don't get nice messages on Instagram. You don't get like an engaged core saying, "This resonated with me, that resonated with me." Partly because you're not the story. You're there to facilitate former pros to be the superstars. I mean, I, I liken my job on the football to like being a referee. Like if I'm not seen, that's probably a good thing.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett58:07

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JHJake Humphrey58:07

       I make them look good, I make them feel good, and people, l- let's be totally frank, tune in to watch a game. More people will tune in for Man United than will tune in for Norwich City. More people won't tune in for me because I'm just the facilitator. Whereas with the podcast, the nicest thing has been this genuine conversation connection, like creation of a proper community. And that's, that's been a totally new thing to me. Like I thought I knew everything there was to know about broadcasting and, you know, with a million followers on Twitter and an Instagram account, and running a TV production company and being a TV presenter, like I knew what it was about, I knew how to connect to people. I've never known anything like it. Never seen feedback like it. Never had fulfillment like it. It's amazing. It is amazing.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett58:57

       There's something crazy about podcasting though, versus all other channels.

   23. JHJake Humphrey59:00

       Yeah.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett59:00

       I th- I think it's that depth. The, the messages you get ... Uh, if I post, post something on Instagram, I'll get a, "Oh, I can totally relate." The podcast, you get a, like essay about you know, they return-

   25. JHJake Humphrey59:12

       Yeah.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett59:12

       ... with their story.

   27. JHJake Humphrey59:13

       Yeah.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett59:14

       And it's like depth begets depth.

   29. JHJake Humphrey59:16

       Yeah, yeah, yeah. I to- yeah. I totally see what you're saying. And I th- and it's, um ... It stops it from ... Like 'cause when I first started the High Performance Podcast, I wanted it just to be me opening up amazing people to benefit other people. And I will now admit, part of the thrill of that podcast is seeing the response and seeing, seeing the reaction. And I'm, I'm not foolish enough to think that isn't my ego at work. It absolutely is my ego that likes it. But it is ama- like it is amazing. When you see, "Hi, I listened to your podcast and I changed jobs after wanting to do it for 20 years." "Hi, I listened to your podcast and I've quit doing something that's been bad for me for my whole life. I've reached out to create relationships with people that I allowed to die." From listening to our podcast? Bloody hell.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:03

       What's the most emotional moment you've had with a guest that you can recall on, on the podcast? Is there a particular moment that, you know-
10. 1:01:36 – 1:09:41

    Tips for starting a podcast

    1. JHJake Humphrey1:01:36

       like this one is.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:37

       And we were, we were talking before we started recording today about the-... the desire to try and avoid the typical talking points with guests. And I think this is maybe just a general, a general point for people that are trying to start a podcast, you know. Um, there are so many podcasts out there.

    3. JHJake Humphrey1:01:51

       Yeah.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:51

       And in order to... What would your tips be then, for someone who's considering starting a podcast, from what you've learned in your 30 or, you know, you've, you've recorded-

    5. JHJake Humphrey1:01:59

       Mm-hmm.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:59

       ... I think a total of 50 so far-

    7. JHJake Humphrey1:02:00

       Yeah, we done. Yeah.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:01

       ... but there's 30 that are live. Um, what tips-

    9. JHJake Humphrey1:02:03

       What are-

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:03

        ... would you give to someone who's, who's thinking of starting their own?

    11. JHJake Humphrey1:02:05

        First of all, go for it. Because I honestly, well, I honestly was this close to not doing it. The great thing about podcasts that you, that I didn't have in my life was ownership. So I'd spent my career working for children's BBC, working for Formula 1 and the BBC, working for the Premier League on BT Sport. And I sat down with someone and they said, "Oh, like, how's your career?" And I said, "Yeah, it's great. Like, I'm really happy. I love doing the football, I love being with the, the players and everything." And they said, "Well, if you got a phone call tomorrow to say that that had ended, what would you be left with?" And I was like, "Hmm, I don't know, I'd have to go and find another job." And they said, "So what do you own? Of all these years of graft and hard work, like what's yours?" And the answer was, "Nothing." And then their next question, they, you know, they obviously knew what they were talking about. They said, "What do you really wanna do?" And I said, "Well, I don't really care if Liverpool beat Man United or Norwich City beat Ipswich, not really. But I love, like, the effort and the graft, and I love sitting with the pundits. I love the way that Rio Ferdinand and Steven Gerrard watch a game of football. I love how they turn up looking smart or they bring their own food in little plastic containers still." Or the day that I first met Lewis Hamilton, and he walked in the room and he, like, took off his watch. And he didn't just chuck his watch on the side, he got it and he closed up the clasp, and he put it down, and he moved it, and he got his little bracelet off and he went (metal clinking) . And he took his c-

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:33

        Perfection.

    13. JHJake Humphrey1:03:33

        And I just looked at that and I thought, "Ah, that desire for perfection, that elite mindset mentality." I said to them, "That's what I want. I want to speak to elite performers and elite thinkers, because I think that everyone can benefit from that. Everyone can think and operate and perform better because there's no tricks, there's no secrets. Like, you just need to have the passion and go out and do it." And they said, "Well, then that's what you should do. Do a podcast." So that was it, "Right, great. I'm doing a podcast." And then I mentioned it to a couple of people and they went, "Why are you do- You can't do a podcast."

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:04

        (laughs)

    15. JHJake Humphrey1:04:04

        I was like, "Why?" "Because everyone does podcasts. Like, there's literally so many podcasts."

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:09

        (laughs)

    17. JHJake Humphrey1:04:09

        "You can't, you're not gonna make a splash."

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:11

        Mm-hmm.

    19. JHJake Humphrey1:04:11

        "There's thousands of podcasts." And then I rang an old friend of mine from children's BBC, and she is... I don't ever really e- even ever told her this, but she's the reason I do the podcast. Fern Cotton, who does Happy Place.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:21

        Mm-hmm.

    21. JHJake Humphrey1:04:22

        I said, "Hey, I'm thinking of doing a podcast." Now, she is such a nice person. She is not the sort of person to go, "Oh, hold on. A rival podcast?"

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:31

        Yeah. Yeah (laughs) .

    23. JHJake Humphrey1:04:32

        She'd never even consider that. She went, "Oh my God, you'd be great at doing a podcast." Like, she spoke about what it was about. And I said, "But my issue is I just think that, like, there's loads of them out there." And then she was the one that said, "Look, we worked together at children's BBC here. Television had been invented for 50 years. There must have been hundreds of channels, thousands of programs. Did you think, 'I'm not gonna work in telly because there's already loads of TV programs?' No, of course you didn't. You just thought, 'Well, I'm gonna work in telly and make my mark.'" She said, "You need to do exactly the same thing with your podcast." Um, so the first thing you, is you have to do your podcast. You have to go out and do it. But the second, and-

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:07

        That's the biggest challenge though, isn't it? Starting, it's just in every facet of life.

    25. JHJake Humphrey1:05:11

        Yeah.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:11

        Entrepreneurs contact me and I'm like, "The biggest risk you face, of all the things that might-"

    27. JHJake Humphrey1:05:15

        Mm-hmm. Yeah, but-

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:15

        "... prevent you from being successful."

    29. JHJake Humphrey1:05:15

        ... I think you can do a podcast risk-free though, you know. You can spend a very minimal sum of money-

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:20

        Mm-hmm.

Episode duration: 1:30:42