Mel C: The Harsh Reality Of Being In The World’s Biggest Girl Band | E179

Steven Bartlett 0:00 Before we start, I've got to be honest with you about something. Um, when we recorded this episode with Mel C, um, it was honestly one of the most moving, heartbreaking, inspiring, revealing conversations I've ever had on this podcast. And I've been looking forward to sharing this conversation with you for some time now. Um, and then we had an incident where one of our hard drives was stolen and we lost the audio for Mel's mic. Which is really, really heartbreaking, because of all the episodes to lose the audio for, for it to be this one is... has been very hard to deal with. And I think, uh, I wanna start by apologizing to Mel because she came here, she shared her story in such a profound, vulnerable way. And I've carried this sense of guilt because, um... because when people come here, not only are they giving us their time, but they're giving us their story. And for some people, as is the case in this conversation, it's the first time that that story has been shared in this way. So I've been really struggling with that. But because it was such a profound story, and to, to make sure we honor all of that which Mel gave us by coming here, um, we spent a lot of time fixing the, the audio we do have, which actually comes from one of the cameras that's rolling, not from the microphone in front of her. We've worked with a specialist to try and repair the audio as much as we possibly can. And this is one of the episodes where I'm asking you for a favor, which is to stay with us. I know it's not always easy to listen to audio when it's not as crisp as this audio sounds right now. But there's a story underneath the, um, lack of clarity in the audio, the lack of crispness, crispness in the audio that needs to be heard. It's one of the m- the most amazing stories we've ever shared. Um, and so I hope you enjoy this episode. And we've put many, many meas- many, many, many, many, many, many measures in place to make sure that, um, we never lose any audio or any footage ever again. In this case, it was out of our control. But, um, this episode is worth it, so we're putting it out anyway. You're gonna enjoy it.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:56 There's an element of guilt attached to my success. It was joyless. You know, because I had a secret and it was killing me. (dramatic music) Melanie C! (crowd cheering) The early days of the Spice Girls were the best, and I feel blessed. But with it has been some really tough times. It was fucking dramatic how it went down. The tabloid media were brutal. We all got called terrible, horrible things.

Steven Bartlett 2:33 Did you notice a change in yourself at all after that?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 2:35 Definitely. That was the catalyst.

Steven Bartlett 2:37 Why?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 2:37 I became very, very ill. I couldn't control my eating. I was struggling to get out of bed. It was killing me. I think, did becoming famous ruin my life? Did it ruin me? Sometimes I question that. Um, yeah, that's my, my new limit. (cries)

Steven Bartlett 3:07 Without further ado, I'm Stephen Bartlett, and this is the Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. (music)

Steven Bartlett 3:22 Melanie, when I, when I sit here with people, um, I, I always try and figure out the best starting point. I always know I'm gonna start at the very beginning. But with you, when I was reading through your story, it was quite clear to me that the things that shaped you started at a very, very young age. I'm talking when you were two, three, and four years old. So can you take me right back to the very start? I'm guessing that's like sort of 1976-ish.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 3:46 It is. And you're right. You know, things that happened to me when I was a toddler really defined a lot of who I became. I, uh, grew up just outside Liverpool and I was born in Whiston Hospital. My parents and I lived in a place called Rane Hill. And they divorced when I was, I think I was about three years old. And my life kind of quite quickly changed, you know, as lots of young people would be affected like that. And yeah, that was where the story began, I think, me developing this need to succeed.

Steven Bartlett 4:24 When you say your life changed, give me color to, to what that means for you.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 4:28 So I was living quite comfortably with mum and dad, you know, the kind of happy archetypal family life. And, um, my mum, um, we left. Me and my mum left, and we went to live with my grandparents. And then we, we went to live, um, in quite a different area. We were still only about 30 minutes away, but it, it was quite different. We went into, um, council accommodation. And my, um... Quite quickly, my mum was in a new relationship, so there was this new guy around. And it was just kind of... It just, you know... Looking back, it was just very different to the world I'd entered into when I first turned upon this planet.

Steven Bartlett 5:10 What was your, um, your f- family's sort of economic situation throughout this journey? Was it... Were you a, a working class family or...

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 5:17 Absolutely, yeah. I mean, my family still are, you know, very working class, you know, through the generations. And my mum and dad were doing... You know, they were doing good. We had a lovely semi-detached house in a, in a nice suburb of, of, you know, Liverpool. And obviously with my mum leaving dad, as today, you know, lots of couples find that it is very difficult to, to start again. Um, so we were, yeah, going into a situation where it was hard for mum to make ends meet. So it was, yeah, it was, it was quite a, a tough area to be, um, to be growing up in.

Steven Bartlett 5:53 Where was your dad?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 5:54 So dad was still in the house.

Steven Bartlett 5:56 In the house you'd been raised in for those-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 5:58 Yes, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 5:58 ... first few years?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 5:59 And then after, I think, a couple of years, he went traveling.And, um, yeah. And then he went to work abroad actually. So I've always seen a lot of my dad. But there were periods of times when he was away. So, um, yeah, so it was a bit of a shakeup. Quite early. They're formative years, aren't they?

Steven Bartlett 6:16 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 6:17 When you're that little, you don't think about it 'cause as a child, your life is your life. But I think when you start to think about who you are and how you became that person, you start to... You just kind of pinpoint maybe little moments that put you on that track.

Steven Bartlett 6:32 So when you look back to that, that experience of your parents separating at a very young age, and then your life shifting, and, um, in hindsight, what impact did that have on you? Like, when you look back and connect those dots and go, "Oh, that, that's the reason for that."

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 6:47 I think it kind of confused me, I think, as a young person, to have my location change, you know, to be taken from the family home. And obviously, I was tiny, so I didn't understand. You know, I didn't understand adult relationships. I didn't understand why it was happening. So this little series of events, and then, you know, I have a new... I've got a stepdad, and then I had a new sibling, and then I had stepbrothers. And so there was just, there was just quite a lot of big things happening in my little world. And it made me just kind of confused to, like, where I belonged, who I was, how I fitted in to that new dynamic. And, you know, as I got older and my dad remarried and I have this incredible family... It's very complicated and it's huge, and I have half-siblings and step-siblings and step-parents and, and it's lovely. But I think for me, being the only child of my mum and dad sometimes made me feel a little bit a spare part. And I think that's what made me feel like I had to make myself a place in the world, my own place in the world. And I think also it was about kind of earning the love of these people. I kind of felt like I had to prove that I was worthy of exis- existence. It sounds melodramatic, but I think as a, as a young person, you... I mean, especially going through my teenage years, you, you question everything, don't you? You know, "Why are we here?" And a lot of that for me was like, "Do I deserve to be here?" And so I had to make myself worthy of being here.

Steven Bartlett 8:26 And you think that started because of th- your parents' separation, and then this new context of these other siblings that were... Felt maybe belonged more than...

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 8:35 Yeah. I, I think, I think especially when, you know, both my parents remarried. And they've both really happily remarried and have gone on to have more children. And I love my parents, and I love my stepparents, and all of my siblings. But for me, I, I sometimes feel quite alone, and I think that is what propelled me and some of the issues I went on to have in later life. Uh, you know, for good and for bad. You know, I think there's been real benefits to those feelings, um, which has made me very determined, um, very conscientious. But also, it's made me very hard on myself. I'm a little bit of a perfectionist.

Steven Bartlett 9:12 One of the things that I was quite surprised to read was this almost contradiction between you... You really looked up to your dad. You, you... I think you wrote in your book that you almost worshiped him.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 9:20 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 9:20 But then when he left-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 9:21 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 9:21 ... it was almost like there wasn't, there wasn't a reaction from you.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 9:24 Yeah. I know. It, uh, it's so strange to me. It's hard when you're that young, isn't it? 'Cause th- your own memories are such little tiny snippets. And you remember, and we all remember things differently. But for my dad, you know, I did. I, I put him on a pedestal, and I still do. You know, he's my hero, and he always will be. But yeah. He, he ran away, and he ran away for his own reasons. And as an adult, I completely understand that, you know? And he needed to do that. But yeah. I kind of shut down, I think. And I think I kind of... I have learnt in my life, which has been really useful in my career, that I can have these incredibly intense emotional feelings, but they have to be buried. Not healthy, but helpful sometimes. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 10:14 In the short term.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 10:15 Yeah. Yeah. But I think if your, if your knowledge... You know, you have the knowledge that you do that, I think that can help in just maybe not doing it or, or trying to, to not do it too much.

Steven Bartlett 10:28 Is that the first time you, you kind of recalled that, those early years where you think you might have just buried a set of emotions and not addressed them, that, that blocking out of it just to keep on keeping on?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 10:39 Yeah. I, I think, I, I think some of it is my personality. But I think some of it was circumstance, that I kind of... I don't like to rock the boat. I don't want to cause people problems. I want to always make sure everybody's okay. Um, and I think that's a lot to do with worthiness, you know, feeling unworthy potentially.

Steven Bartlett 10:57 Um, j- just, just so I'm completely clear in my own mind, because I, I don't want to make any assumptions, that feeling of, like, m- not feeling worthiness came from that dysfunctional family dynamic. That's the first sort of hint you have of it.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 11:10 I, I think so. I think looking back, you know, I grew up in the '70s and '80s. And for me, in the environment I was in at that time, it was really unusual that parents separated.

Steven Bartlett 11:22 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 11:23 All of my friendship group, they had, to me, what I saw as the happy family, you know, the family unit. And I longed for that, and I didn't have that, and it made me different. And obviously, you know, fast-forward to today, and I think it's probably rarer to have the family unit, you know?

Steven Bartlett 11:42 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 11:42 Life has changed so much. So that's how it affected me at the time. It ma- it made me feel like, yeah, an outsider and a bit strange.

Steven Bartlett 11:51 You moved to, um, Runcorn with your mother, which is, um, where the, the council estate is where you lived.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 11:58 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 11:59 Well, that area isn't a good area back then.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 12:02 Yeah. You know, it... I mean, Runcorn is...... it's, like, a satellite town of Liverpool and lots of people. You know, it was kind of like an overspill. Um, lots of people were out there and this, this particular estate that we, we got housed in was... it was built and i- it was obviously, there were so many families that needed to be housed, very much like today. And it was this, uh, like bizarre architecture, uh, we had these huge round windows and then these little houses, they were like... we used to call them the Lego houses because they were like blue and yellow. It was... you know, I suppose at the time, it, it seemed very forward-thinking, but I think unfortunately, you know, it was, it was one of those environments, of which there are still many, um, where, you know, problems can occur because it's, it's kind of set up. There are, you know, there are just opportunities, I suppose, for people to be quite discreet and there was, you know, lots of people there who were struggling. And it was... I think it was knocked down, I think they started knocking it down in about 1990-

Steven Bartlett 13:03 Oh.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 13:03 ... because it just kind of got... yeah, too rundown I think.

Steven Bartlett 13:08 When you, um, when you look back on your, your father's decision to leave, is there any feelings of like, I don't know, animosity towards that decision to- for him to leave your life. I understand the, the separation, but for him to then be absent seems like it was, from reading your book, the... a catalyst moment for other things to then happen. D- has there ever been any animosity towards when you reflected on it as you grew up?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 13:35 No.

Steven Bartlett 13:35 Really?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 13:36 No, there really hasn't because I think, you know, just that thing of being a kid and your life is your life.

Steven Bartlett 13:41 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 13:42 You know? So, it's just that you get told something and you're like, "Oh, okay then." And I think when I became a parent and I think about my daughter, and obviously I work away a lot, you know? Um, but I just... yeah, it's, it's weird. I, I don't think you really fully... I don't think you ever fully understand your parents, but I think you get a much better understanding of them when you become a parent, you know? But at the end of the day, I think as a child, you look up to these adults thinking, you know, they know how everything should be and how everything should be done. And then, when you become an adult, you're like them. I'm 50 in a year and a half and I still haven't got a clue. So... (laughs) and I still feel like a child, you know? And my mum says, "I feel like a teenager." Um, and it's like, and I get that now. We're all just trying to figure it out throughout our lives, you know? I don't think we ever get to that age where we go, "Yeah, I've got it nailed."

Steven Bartlett 14:35 Dancing-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 14:36 (clears throat) Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 14:37 ... seemed to be your first love as I was reading through your story.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 14:39 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 14:40 Where did that show up? Where did dancing come from?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 14:42 You know, I think like so many young kids, you have this moment where you maybe go to ballet or disco or whatever the, the local, you know, it was in the local club or whatever. And I went on to ballet and tap when I was so little I can't even remember, but it must have struck a chord with me because when we moved to Runcorn, it was... there was no way mum could afford for me to do dance classes. So, I had this period of time without it. We moved to Widnes when I was, I think I was eight years old, and that's when I picked up dancing again and I think I'd really like bugged my mum for years, "I want to go back to dancing, I want to go back, I want to go back." And I did sports at school, you know, I've always... I'm just very active, um, I think I was probably one of those kids who never sat still, you know? I was always outside, I was always upside down or kicking a ball or something.

Steven Bartlett 15:30 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 15:30 And dancing for me, it was just a way of expressing myself and a freedom and it was almost like a safe place as well.

Steven Bartlett 15:38 Safe place.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 15:39 Like many performers, and I'm sure you've spoken to lots of people who are like this, that I'm quite shy in certain aspects of my life, maybe like in a social aspect. Um, you know, being at school, I kept my head down, I wasn't very academic. I did okay. But when I was dancing, when I was doing something creative and being able to express myself, I felt very confident and free and alive. So yeah, dancing school was where I really felt in my element.

Steven Bartlett 16:08 So, so you became a very obsessive dancer, practicer. Very meticulous.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 16:14 Yeah, I think there's something about classical ballet and the training of that which... there's a lot of discipline and it just really works for me and, and even now, you know, I, I have to have an awareness of this, that it's... to have those parameters and to have that discipline makes me feel safe. I don't really know where that comes from, but I am... I'm very hard on myself and I kind of... I think I'm a little bit of a workaholic because I feel like when I'm in a work space and I'm being very disciplined that I'm safe.

Steven Bartlett 16:50 One might guess that, um, if parameters and discipline and th- that structure makes you feel safe, then there might have been a time where a lack of parameters made you feel unsafe, or a lack of a foundation made you feel unsafe.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 17:04 Yeah. Absolutely. I- I'm sure. I'm sure. I think there was a lot of... you know, my mum's a performer-

Steven Bartlett 17:09 Oh.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 17:09 ... and, you know, it's, it's so... it's so weird now because obviously I find myself in, in a similar position, but she'd be away- not an awful lot, but there'd be times when I'd be staying with other people or, you know, there have been babysitters and, uh, you know, maybe there was a little bit of instability felt there and that would definitely make sense.

Steven Bartlett 17:30 A bit of instability.

Steven Bartlett 17:31 Is this... are you talking to... talking about your nanny?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 17:34 (laughs) Yeah, yeah. There was a little period of time where, yeah, my mum had employed someone to look after me who, um, you know, she felt was, was a great person for the role. But unfortunately, you know, the girl, she was maybe a little bit too young to take on that responsibility and had kind of moved me out of our home and I'd moved in with, with her mum and, uh... yeah, it was all a little bit shady. But yeah, as soon as mum found out, she put an end to it. But I think I was very quiet about it because I was so little, I think I was only about five. So, um, I chose not to tell her. Probably didn't want to rock the boat.

Steven Bartlett 18:11 What weren't you telling her?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 18:13 ... um, that I wasn't at home, and that I wasn't being taken care of by the girl she'd employed to take care of me.

Steven Bartlett 18:22 That feels like a, a l- a light way of-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 18:27 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 18:27 ... saying something that is a little less light in reality (laughs) .

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 18:30 Well, you know, again, I was so young. It was... I don't think it's until I've got older that I thought, "That's, that's probably something that would affect you in a big way." But at the time, it was just my life.

Steven Bartlett 18:42 You recite this moment of g- of just waiting for this per- this person that was meant to be taking care of you, um, just not showing up on many occasions, and you having to wait outside and wee in your pants at one point because you were waiting outside so long.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 18:56 Mm-hmm. Yeah. I remember getting back from school and we had these, you know, horrible, damp concrete steps up to the flat door, and no one was home, and yeah, just busting for the toilet. And yeah, I wet myself, and luckily the, the neighbor came home and she took me in and kind of cleaned me up and... Yeah. So that's... I mean, again, I was so young. There's, there's just these little flashes of memories of those things.

Steven Bartlett 19:24 I think, I think when you're y- when you're young, you maybe don't... A- a- it's not that those... I think about my own life, like, it's not that those things don't, aren't impacting you, it's you don't, you're not really aware of the impact they're having or the stories that they're, they're making you write about yourself and about your situation. Um, and then obviously, so oftentimes it seems that we, including myself, then see the consequences of it, and in hindsight have to peep, p- sort of piece together where that came from.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 19:48 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 19:49 But that's f- I mean, when I, when I read that, um, in your book, I was... I mean, that's, that's almost like criminal neg- negligence to treat a child in such a way. And I think about the, your, your, the departure of your father, your mum then departing to go and pursue her career, and then you, you ultimately ending up on these steps, you know, urinating your underwear because of this negligent, uh, nanny. And that's, uh, you know, that, that's where I think, "Oh, that is..." You know, that must have been formative in, in-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 20:16 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 20:16 ... to some, to some degree.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 20:18 Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm a big believer in therapy, and I've been having it for many years. Um, probably I only started to do that because of my time with the Spice Girls and how much of a head fuck that was. But it's really interesting because you do look at your habits and the things that you do and why you do them, and so much of it comes back to your childhood.

Steven Bartlett 20:42 Dancing was your first love. Um, you, you become very disciplined at that, and eventually off you go to, um, study in London.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 20:49 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 20:50 And that's where you find singing.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 20:52 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 20:53 Which you hadn't... Had you been doing it before?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 20:55 You know, because my mum was a singer and she had deals in the '70s, she had a couple of record deals with different bands, but you know, it hadn't worked out the way she would've liked it to. Um, you know, she did great, but it didn't get to those heights that all of us performers would like to get to. So I just knew growing up, it's really, really hard. Working in the music industry is really difficult. So, you know, my young brain goes, "Okay, I want to be a pop star, but it's really hard." So I love dancing and I love singing, so theater, 'cause I loved musical theater as well. I went to performing arts college and I was pursuing that, and I, I'd sung a little bit, but I just, I never really had confidence in my voice. But there was this, like, weird thing of... It just gave me so much joy, actually more joy than dancing. I was in college, I was in my second year, and we had these competitions that would happen every year. And I was singing a song, and it was the first time I just had a moment with an audience where they, I just really felt this energy, this transaction between myself and them, and it was when I was singing, and it, that was it for me, that was the moment, it was like, "It is singing. That is it. That is what I have to do."

Steven Bartlett 22:13 So eventually you, um, you and 400 other young women res- respond to a advert in a magazine.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 22:21 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 22:22 What was that advert?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 22:24 Okay, so, when I... So, so The Stage newspaper was when you leave performing arts college, you're an actor, a, a dancer, singer, whatever, you go for your auditions, The Stage is where you find your auditions. Found myself at an audition I didn't want to be at, handed a flyer for a girl band, and I'm like, "That's it. That's what I'm gonna do."

Steven Bartlett 22:46 Y- y- you get handed a flyer. A lot of people are being handed that flyer.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 22:49 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 22:50 Did you know then that you would... You said, "That's it. That's what I want to do." Did you know then that you wanted to be in a girl band, or did you mean, "That's it, I'm going to apply, and I think that's more befitting of what I, where I want to go"?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 23:03 It's hard to know exactly because of what's happened since then.

Steven Bartlett 23:07 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 23:08 You know what I mean?

Steven Bartlett 23:08 Yeah, yeah, of course.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 23:08 But my, but my telling of the story is... I mean, I just had a really strong feeling at that time that I was gonna, whatever this thing was-

Steven Bartlett 23:18 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 23:18 ... I was gonna be a part of it, and it was gonna be something incredible.

Steven Bartlett 23:22 What did that flyer say?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 23:24 I think it said something like, "Are you 18 to 24?" I think it, like, the wording of it, "Streetwise? Can dance, sing, fun-loving?" Blah, blah. I don't know.

Steven Bartlett 23:35 Yeah (laughs) .

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 23:35 Um, but it was, yeah, it was just basically an audition, an open audition-

Steven Bartlett 23:40 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 23:40 ... "Anyone come along, we're putting a girl band together."

Steven Bartlett 23:43 Okay.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 23:43 It was a music management, and yeah, I went along to that audition.

Steven Bartlett 23:49 And how did that go?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 23:50 It went well. I was recalled. We had to dance, and then we were recalled to sing, and then we were all sent away and then we were, we were called back. But when we were called back, I was ill and I couldn't speak, let alone sing. So, um, yeah, I, I missed my first opportunity of being in this band.

Steven Bartlett 24:10 You missed your first opportunity?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 24:11 Yeah. So I was really sick. I kept getting tonsillitis, and I, yeah, I was really poorly when the recall happened, and so I begged my mum to call in, and...... just say, "Give Melanie a week, like, get better, she'll come and sing for you." But they were like, "No. We- we've already chosen the girls. It's, I'm afraid, you know, it's a no this time." And there was lots of auditions that were nos, so it was like, "Oh, well, wasn't meant to be." But then a couple of weeks after that, I got a call to say, "Somebody hasn't worked out. We'd like to see Melanie again." And then that was my chance to get in the band.

Steven Bartlett 24:46 Christ. That is a pivotal phone call.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 24:49 (laughs) Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 24:53 (laughs)

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 24:53 Isn't it? Yeah. It's bizarre. Yeah, and I, I, you know, I think... I often think about the other girls who had potential because that still wasn't the five that everybody-

Steven Bartlett 25:02 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 25:03 ... got to know, you know? There was... I think there were three girls from the, the beginning of the band being put together who didn't end up being part of the final lineup of the Spice Girls.

Steven Bartlett 25:15 It's funny, when you think back, even being handed that flyer, you think, "What path would I have walked potentially if that person that day hadn't given me that flyer?" It's a really strange thought, isn't it?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 25:28 Yeah, it's a sliding doors moment, isn't it?

Steven Bartlett 25:30 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 25:30 But it's like, yeah, I- I really... 'cause often in interviews you'll be asked, "Oh, if you didn't do this-"

Steven Bartlett 25:35 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 25:35 "... what would you do?" And I'm like, "I have no clue."

Steven Bartlett 25:40 It's funny.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 25:40 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 25:41 I think about it 'cause I... there was an early, early point in my career where I got a phone call saying, um, a- a day before saying this 16-year-old kid that was meant to be speaking at this event had dropped out last minute and could I get to London? I had no money. I end up, um, bunking on the Megabus. This 16-year-old kid had just sold his business for 30 million, so they needed, like, a young entrepreneur last minute. Found me because I was on some website at 3:00 AM, asked me to come, and that sent me off in my career. It was where I got my investors from, that one talk.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 26:08 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 26:08 I think if they hadn't asked me to be there, how would my life have been different? Um, and the weird thought, which we never consider, is that maybe I would have been happier.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 26:20 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 26:21 Have you ever, have you ever thought that?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 26:23 Mm-hmm. Often. Often, yeah. You know, I, I wouldn't change my life. Obviously, I'm so proud of the things that I've achieved, and I have an incredible life, and I absolutely do my passion, you know? That's my... I've just had a weekend of it, you know, three shows over the weekend, and I feel blessed. But with it has been some really tough times. And sometimes I do, I do think, "Wow." I think, "Did becoming famous ruin my life? Did it ruin me?" Sometimes I question that.

Steven Bartlett 27:01 It's a hard one to answer, isn't it?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 27:03 It really is.

Steven Bartlett 27:03 Because you don't know the alternatives, so you can't...

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 27:06 Yeah. But I think the thing is, it's like, you know, it's always so important, isn't it, to remember we're on a journey, right?

Steven Bartlett 27:13 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 27:14 What's the destination? The destination is death. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 27:17 (laughs)

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 27:18 You know, we've just got to enjoy this journey. And I remember the early days of the Spice Girls were the best. Before we released anything, we had the most fun because it was this excitement, "What's gonna happen?" You know, "What could it be?" And then when it happened, it was incredible. But there's a lot of pressures that come along with it. So, everything starts to change.

Steven Bartlett 27:42 In those early years then, so before

Steven Bartlett 27:44 you've re- released any music, you stumbled around trying to find management for a while, right?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 27:48 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 27:49 And then you recount stories in your book about some, like, dickheads that's made some just, like, awful comments to you. Can you tell me about that, that comment? Was his name Ch- Chick?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 27:58 Oh, Chick. Yeah. So he was a financial backer. So when we... We were first put together by a management team, and we were with them maybe for about a year. And Chick was, um, yeah, the financial backer of these original managers, and he'd commented on the size of my thighs, um, which was something that really shook me because I... you know, I went to a performing arts college, which was predominantly a dancing college. And, you know, body image was an issue there. There was... there were girls with eating disorders. I'd, I'd been, you know, I'd been witness to that in my life. But yeah, it never affected me personally. Um, you know, and I'm a teenager, putting on a little bit of weight, moving away from home, not really eating as well, going down the pub. And, you know, so my weight fluctuated a little bit, but it was never something that really bothered me. It was just, "Yeah, I'll cut back a little bit, lose a few pounds." But somebody actually commenting on the way I looked when I was going into a career where so much of it is about how you look really affected me.

Steven Bartlett 29:07 Did he make that comment in front of people?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 29:09 He made that comment in front of the other girls.

Steven Bartlett 29:13 There's something about... there's something about, um, when you're trying to fit in, when someone points out something which makes you different or that might make you feel like you don't fit in. And from s- just listening to your early years where fitting in and feeling worthy was so important to you, for someone to then, in a group of people where you, where you belong, those... that, that band, to say, "This is why you don't fit," essentially, with that comment-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 29:38 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 29:38 ... I can't think of anything more, more hurtful for one's self-esteem.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 29:42 Especially as a young person 'cause, you know, think about it. I was probably 19 at that point, which at the time you feel like you're all grown up. You left college, going out into the big wide world. You're a child. You know, you're still so young and so vulnerable.

Steven Bartlett 29:58 Well, uh, Victoria said to you that he had said comments to her about her weight as well or her appearance.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 30:02 Yeah. I think, you know, it was, it was very much at that time... I mean, I, you know, I went to dance college, so teachers would say, "You need to lose weight." You know, "What's that stomach do-" Uh, I mean, I've spoken to dancers recently about the culture of that 'cause, you know, um, recently there was a lot... there's been a lot talked about in the gymnastics world.

Steven Bartlett 30:21 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 30:22 And there was definitely a culture within dance which was very cruel and heartless and shaming, body-shaming.... um, which is changing. But, you know, dance teachers, there are some really lovely nurturing ones out there. But some of the best dance teachers are horrible, you know. We... I mean, carrot and the stick, isn't it?

Steven Bartlett 30:46 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 30:46 It's quite an old-fashioned way, but it worked in some ways, but it's very damaging.

Steven Bartlett 30:54 Did it change your behavior, that, that comment from him? Did, d- did you notice a change in yourself at all after that?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 30:59 Definitely. That was the catalyst. That was the catalyst for me to... It was like a wake-up call. It was like, "If I want to do this, if I'm going to be a pop star..." And you have to remember, this was, like, the '90s as well. So it was... You know, body image was a very different thing back then, you know. Thank God there's so much more body, body positivity now, you know. But back then, it was all about being stick thin. And I thought, "Well, if I'm going to do this, I have to fit the mold." And so then that was... It was just... It was a, it was a gradual thing, but it was like the eating and the exercising, and that's when, that's when it begun, yeah, from a comment like that.

Steven Bartlett 31:33 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 31:34 Which he probably didn't give a se- second thought to, you know?

Steven Bartlett 31:38 Isn't that crazy?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 31:39 It's crazy.

Steven Bartlett 31:41 We never really appreciate that one comment can have such a profound impact and change someone's, um, the trajectory of their health or their wellbeing in such a pr- a significant way. Just one comment.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 31:53 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 31:53 Just a few words.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 31:54 Yeah. Um, you know, I think it's, it's a bit of a trigger, isn't it? You know, so that happened, and I think obviously I was feeling vulnerable, and it knocks your confidence. But then it's kind of... I think it's like a little chain of events that leads you down that road.

Steven Bartlett 32:08 Right.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 32:08 You know? So that maybe was the little start of it. It ignited a-

Steven Bartlett 32:12 The first domino to fall.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 32:14 Yeah.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 32:15 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 32:15 On that journey trying to find new management, you, you stumbled across Simon Cowell as well, and he- (laughs)

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 32:21 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 32:21 He must hate when you recount this story because... (laughs)

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 32:24 Oh, no. It's so funny 'cause he... This is the thing, right? Everybody remembers things differently. Because he remembers, he said yes to us, but we said no to him. So basically, we got to the point where we were going to record companies. We were looking for a record deal, so we'd left the, the original management, and we had some demos, demo tapes. And we were going around meeting managers, meeting record labels, and most people were very positive. We got very positive reactions. But we remember Simon saying he wasn't interested in us. Um, yeah, but he, he recounts it differently. So that's funny, isn't it? Because obviously then, it was the '90s. He was a, a record company exec. He, he wasn't known to the, to the wider public.

Steven Bartlett 33:08 At this point, when you're going around trying to find management, how are you pr- like, providing for yourselves? H- Where's the money coming from to sustain the band? And was there ever a moment where you thought, "Fuck this. I'm gonna-"

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 33:19 No.

Steven Bartlett 33:19 ... "No."?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 33:19 Never. Never, never, never. So when we were with our original management, they, they did give us, like, a little bit of pocket money. They put us up in a house. I think they gave us about 60 pounds a week, which, 'cause we weren't paying for our accommodation, at the time, you know, we could make ends meet. Um, but when we left them, I think I went to stay with a friend back in Sidcup, where I'd been to college, so I was, like, staying in her spare room. And then there was a period of time where Melanie and Geri were homeless. They were doing a little bit of sofa surfing. Yeah. And Emma went home to her mum's place in Finchley, and Victoria was back at her mum's place up, um, in Hertfordshire. So yeah, we were... Uh, and it was so lovely. There's... I remember we'd go to Emma's mum's place, and she'd do loads of toast for us and wrap it in tinfoil, and that would be breakfast. And yeah, we w- we were just... We never thought. It was never an option to give up. We were on this journey, and we were gonna make it happen.

Steven Bartlett 34:13 How long was that period when, when... between you leaving your initial management to ultimately when you found Simon Fuller and, you know, that kind of... It began with Virgin.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 34:23 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 34:23 How long was that? How big was that gap?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 34:25 It, it wasn't as long as a year.

Steven Bartlett 34:27 Okay.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 34:27 Like, within a year. It was maybe about eight months or so. But we, we had, um, somebody who was, you know, very kindly looking after us. So what we'd done before we left our original management, we talked our original management into putting on a showcase.

Steven Bartlett 34:41 Okay.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 34:42 So we did that, and then we met some writers and producers and publishers. And we made some contacts, and we, we kind of knew already we were gonna leave, but we just thought, "Let's get this out with them." And we did that. And so we pursued that, and we were with Mark Fox, who was head of publishing at BMG at the time. And he kind of took us under his wing and would take us out for dinners and got us to meet people, and that kind of got us on our road to success.

Steven Bartlett 35:06 And then you met Simon Fuller.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 35:08 We did.

Steven Bartlett 35:09 Talk to me about that and how that changed things.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 35:10 Yeah. It was really interesting because we'd been... It's so funny, isn't it? We really did take matters into our own hands, and we talk about auditioning managers, you know. We were this unknown girl band. Everyone was telling us girl bands don't work, but we were out there going, "Right, is this manager good enough for us?" Um, so we just, we just had this attitude that we've got something very special, and we're not gonna undersell it or ourselves. And... Which is wonderful, you know. Even if any of us had any doubts about it, we were like, "Nope. This is the way it is." And I think that real determination, single-mindedness, is a really important part of succeeding. It's like, "No. There's no doubt this will not fail." So we went out there and met these people. And Mark Fox was introducing us to songwriters. We met Matt and Biff, who we wrote Wannabe and 2 Become 1 and Viva Forever. And we also met Absolute, who we wrote Who Do You Think You Are?, Too Much with those guys. And they were managed by a guy called Pete, and he was in Simon's offices. And Simon heard the music and wanted to meet us. So he was the first person who approached us.

Steven Bartlett 36:18 And eventually you signed with Virgin?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 36:20 Virgin Records, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 36:21 Virgin Records, yeah.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 36:22 Yeah. Didn't we? We, we gave everyone the runaround, and we got the money up and up and up and up, as you could in those days. And we just loved Virgin. It was an incredible team.... and we just had so much fun with them. They really shared our vision. Great A& R, Ashley Newton, you know, obviously Spice was such a great album, as is Spice World. Um, so yeah, it was like a match made in heaven.

Steven Bartlett 36:46 You, you recount that moment that Simon Fuller gave you your first, um, 10K check, I believe.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 36:52 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 36:53 And this is before you've released any music, right? So this is like a... is this a signing bonus?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 36:56 Yeah. So we, we got like, um, you get a advance-

Steven Bartlett 37:01 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 37:01 ... when you, you know, when you sign to a deal. Not so much these days. It- it's changed so much. But yeah, you, you get an advance. And we hadn't seen, like, what we would deem as proper money, and that was proper money. Look at all those zeros! (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 37:15 What did you do with it?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 37:17 Um, I think you know what I did with my first one, don't you?

Steven Bartlett 37:20 No, I don't.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 37:21 Do you not? Okay.

Steven Bartlett 37:22 (laughs)

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 37:22 The first thing I did-

Steven Bartlett 37:23 I do know. You went and got some-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 37:25 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 37:25 ... Nike shoes. (laughs)

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 37:26 Like, I mean, honestly, this is...

Steven Bartlett 37:28 (laughs) .

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 37:28 As soon as I saw that check, right?

Steven Bartlett 37:30 Yeah. (laughs)

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 37:31 Whoever gets the check-

Steven Bartlett 37:31 Yeah. (laughs)

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 37:32 ... I can... I remember, like, being in that... on this kind of stairwell in this party. "Give me a check, £10,000." And I looked, yeah, and I was like, "Nice one." I went down to Oxford Street, JD Sports, and I bought the Nike Air Max that I'd been, like, yeah, I've had my eye on for weeks. I made it! (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 37:50 And what did you do with the rest? Just leave it in the bank?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 37:52 Um, what did I do with the rest? I think I paid for some driving lessons.

Steven Bartlett 37:56 Oh.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 37:57 Um, yeah, I paid for my rent. And, I mean, pretty much when you, you get an advance, whether it's with the record company or publishing, it's your living expenses, you know, when you're a young artist and you've not released anything. That's kind of what it goes on.

Steven Bartlett 38:12 How quickly did things move from the, the point of getting that check on that stairwell to, um, Wannabe, b- the first single-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 38:21 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 38:22 ... taking off? How, how quickly was that?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 38:25 Gosh, I... y- you're really, you're ch- uh, testing my memory now. I think... I wanna say it was around Christmastime when we, when we got the check, and then Wannabe was released in July of '96. So maybe about six months.

Steven Bartlett 38:42 Six months.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 38:43 So it's not, it's not very long time, is it?

Steven Bartlett 38:46 It's not, and it's... uh, what... uh, from what I read, Wannabe didn't take a long time to record either.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 38:50 No, (laughs) it really didn't.

Steven Bartlett 38:52 For a single-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 38:53 I think we wrote it in... it was definitely under half an hour. There's, there's... we kind of disagree. Was it 15 minutes? Was it 20 minutes? I mean, it was kind of thrown together. It was... was it ever gonna be a song? We weren't sure. We were just kind of being silly. And Matt and Biff, who are incredible, just obviously made it into something which... it went to number one in 37 countries. I mean, I don't think I even knew there was 37 countries at that point. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 39:21 (laughs) That's crazy.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 39:22 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 39:22 How... what did... what, what, what does that feel like? So, you released that single, then you start getting the, the, the murmurs, the noise, the, the world starts vibrating a little bit. What is that, what is that like?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 39:33 Well, we had big ideas. We probably had big ideas above our station before we should have done. But it helped us. Our original management were always like, "Don't get too big for your boots, you know. You haven't done anything yet. You need... you've got work to do." And we were like, "We know we've got work to do, but we've got something special and we are gonna make this happen." So, we were always... like, we felt we were very important and very special, and when... well, the people started to think that too. Wannabe was released, it was still early days, but we released our album in Japan. Because at the time there was no internet, so artists would release music in different territories at different times, so you could kind of catch up with yourself with your promo.

Steven Bartlett 40:19 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 40:19 You, you were able to do it... I was about to say you had time to do it, but hey, there's only seven days in a week. Our schedule was insane. But we started in Japan, and Wannabe went to number one while we were in Japan, so we didn't really get a sense of what was happening at home. And I think when we flew back to the UK... we were in Japan for about two weeks. When we, when we flew back, everything had changed. And that was it, when it was... when people really did start recognizing us in the street. Yeah, it all started to, yeah, increase at that point.

Steven Bartlett 40:53 And how did that feel at first?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 40:55 It was so exciting. It was kind of like... it's almost like being put in a... like, in a catapult, you know. We've been... we'd been doing all this work, doing all this work. Ding! You know, and then you're, you're gone, and you've just done this. Like, "Wow!"

Steven Bartlett 41:05 And it really was, "Wow!"

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 41:08 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 41:08 I, I was trying to make sure I had the dates right before, because when I was looking at the, the, the amount of time from that first single to the number one albums and the meteoric global superstardom, it feels like this much time.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 41:23 I know.

Steven Bartlett 41:23 I was like, "I'm sure I've got the dates wrong. There must be like a decade, like, typo somewhere."

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 41:28 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 41:28 Because it was just a couple of years.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 41:31 It's crazy. You know, it's not even a full two years, right? Wannabe was released in July 1997. Geri left the band in the spring of '98 when we were two shows short of our European leg of the tour. So it wasn't a full two years that the five were together doing the thing, you know. It's...

Steven Bartlett 41:54 That's mad. I don't understand that.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 41:56 Right? We got together in '94. That's when we all first met, so together a couple of years beforehand. But yeah, by '98, spring of '98, Geri had gone. We went on to do our US leg of the tour as a four-piece. We come back, Melanie and Victoria had their babies, so obviously everything started to change by that point. It was a very different chapter in the lives of the Spice Girls at that point.

Steven Bartlett 42:20 In my head, the Spice Girls were, like, two decades. (laughs)

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 42:24 You can't get rid of us. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 42:25 Yeah, maybe that's why. Maybe... the music lasted, obviously, but, uh, but it... when I was reading that was like two years, I was like, "What? How is that possible?" How is-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 42:33 I know. Two, two, um, two albums and a movie.... and I will tell, and, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 42:40 And all those MTV music videos that were playing in my house constantly-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 42:43 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 42:43 ... 'cause of my sister. Um-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 42:45 Yeah. Blame your sister.

Steven Bartlett 42:47 But I, I listened to a couple, the odd CD when no one was in the house, but-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 42:49 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 42:50 ... it's my podcast, we can edit that out.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 42:52 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 42:52 Um, but, but when you think about why you were success-... 'cause there were a lot of other girl bands at that time, and there were even other girl bands that had a similar fundamental message of, message of empowerment-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 43:04 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 43:04 ... and as you, you call it girl power. I think you can't say that anymore. I think that's a bit of a... people don't like using the, me using the word "girl", but, um, girl power and feminism and, and female empowerment. Why, in hindsight, do you think that you broke through, um, and, and these others who were there before you, and in some situations, were much better placed-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 43:24 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 43:25 ... why did you win?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 43:26 I think the stars were in alignment. Whatever the magic was with that dynamic, that we are so different, that we are quite strong in our individuality, that we made the decision to dress how we each felt comfortable. You know, girl bands before us had coordinated their look or had a certain look, and we realized that didn't work for us. We wanted to make pop music. We loved pop music. We loved so many genres, but we felt like there was a, a space for a female band. You know, we kind of looked at bands like Take That and New Kids on the Block, and there was no girl bands doing that, and that's what we wanted to do. And I just think, just all those little elements, a lot of them accidental. You know, our nicknames, which we never came up with. It wasn't a marketing idea. It was Top of the Pops magazine, Peter Lorraine, who was editor there at the time, just thought it'd be really fun to give us some nicknames, and they stuck, and they became part of the brand, you know? And they still live on to this day. I mean, in the US we're known mainly by our nicknames.

Steven Bartlett 44:36 Yeah.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 44:36 So, yeah, uh, uh, the stars. Like I say, it feels like they were just in alignment. It was meant to be. We had this idea that something was gonna happen, but I think it was written in the stars.

Steven Bartlett 44:49 Timing seems to be quite, um, important in hindsight as well, when you think about where the world was. Was it ready for this message? Was it ready for a band like this? Um, 'cause, you know, if you'd been maybe 10 years earlier, maybe it wouldn't have worked out, or 10 years later.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 45:04 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 45:04 But there's... it's funny, the, the case of timing, and then even when you think back to being handed that flyer, the timing of that, and it's quite serendipitous and, you know, the butterfly effect of just these, these things linking up, and-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 45:18 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 45:18 ... can be quite spooky.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 45:19 Yeah, it really is. You know, you're right. At the time, so it was the '90s, it was a period of growth in the UK, you know? It was quite a positive time for the country. We'd just, kind of, come out of the grunge years musically.

Steven Bartlett 45:32 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 45:32 Um, indie was big here, and, you know, we can't, you know, say, "Oh, you know, oh, 'you're welcome' female empowerment, yes, we, we brought that." This was something that was bubbling and moving and changing, and we were just really fortunate that we hit it at a time when more and more people were, were, were getting on it, you know?

Steven Bartlett 45:52 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 45:53 Um, and I think because... You know, people often talk about feminism with the Spice Girls, and it's like, we feel like, you know, we were young. We had a point to prove. We wanted to be a girl band for girls, and we wanted to talk about female empowerment and how girls could do whatever they wanted to do. No one was telling us we couldn't do something. And it enabled us to take feminism and make it more, you know, palatable to a younger audience. You know, we had fans of three years of age. A pop band or a music act had never had that before. You know, we... And even now, you know, it's amazing, 'cause I do these shows and I go out and I do solo stuff and I do a couple of Spice Girl songs, and there's so many young kids in the audience loving and re- discovering the Spice Girls.

Steven Bartlett 46:39 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 46:39 And it's, it's incredible. It still captures our imagination.

Steven Bartlett 46:44 That, um, that pressure, though. People often talk about the pressure of being in a band, but the pressure of being in a girl band at that time-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 46:52 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 46:52 ... especially when even, you know, the media were, were very vicious and there wasn't a s- an awareness around the impact of words on mental wellbeing and how that can impact people, um, strikes me as being an even more difficult time than today of being in... Well, we have social media now, and, which is also an exacerbating factor, but talk to me about the, the pressure of public scrutiny back then on young women.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 47:19 You're right. You know, the tabloid media were brutal. I think things have improved. Not that much. I mean, it is quite shocking now when I look back at the articles from the '90s and noughties-

Steven Bartlett 47:30 Yeah.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 47:30 ... just, like, the wording that was used. I think they're just a bit more sneaky with it now, you know? They're still saying the same things, but in a slightly different way. But back then it was just brutal. I mean, I got called... We all got called, like, terrible, horrible things, and as a young person, I think for anyone, and, and you're right, you know, the generation now have social media to deal with it, which I think is equally as damaging, if not more so in many ways, because you can't escape it, can you? You know, your phone is there. I wake up, first thing I do, look at my phone. Um, luckily now I have the skin of a rhino-

Steven Bartlett 48:06 (laughs)

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 48:06 (laughs) ... so, if anyone's saying anything negative about me, um, you know, I can, I can usually brush it off. But yeah, back then it was... I was trying to figure out who I was, you know, "Who am I?" These people are telling me I'm this thing. You know, they're criticizing me. I'm, I'm not talented enough. I'm not pretty enough. I'm stupid. I'm a loudmouth, I'm this, and it's like...Who am I? Am I who I want to be? Am I who they tell me I am? Should I be who they want me to be? And, uh, it's so confusing. And that was, I think, another, you know, we were talking about these different elements that got me. 'Cause I, I became very, very ill, um, around 2000, and you know, the, the eating and the exercising and, from Chick's words and certain things that had happened, being photographed constantly, but being commented on constantly was a big factor in that journey.

Steven Bartlett 49:02 Your demeanor changed when I talk- when I mentioned that.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 49:06 Did it?

Steven Bartlett 49:06 It looked like it... Genuinely, I could, I could see how that, that phase of your life had impacted you, just from the, the change in your...

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 49:14 (laughs) I'm quite emotional. Um, yeah, it's... I don't think anyone can ever... You know, it's really hard, you know, because I'm always in this place where there's a... I'm always in this place where there's an element of guilt attached to my success, and I think that's exacerbated by people going, "Well, you're famous." You know, "You put yourself in that position." And something I explore in the book is, you know, people who want to be famous probably are the people least well-equipped to deal with it, because, you know, we're, we're looking for acceptance and love and adoration, and to be that vulnerable and to put yourself in that position only to be criticized is, is a bad combination. And I think, you know, with the tabloid media as it was back then, I mean, it's horrific. I mean, I've looked again recently 'cause, you know, there, there's been certain reasons why I- I've been having to read old articles on myself, and I'm shocked. I'm shocked at the things they used to say. I, um, I mean, I don't wanna jump forward too far with the story, but I, I did suffer with a couple of eating disorders, one of them being binge eating disorder. I was very depressed, and I gained some weight 'cause I'd been underweight for a long, long time. And my body was just like... It was just a reaction. It was like, "I am starved of any nourishment. Heal me, feed me." And, you know, obviously the big change in that made me gain weight. And it wasn't an enormous amount of weight. I think I went from a size, probably about a size... I suppose it does sound like a lot if you say like a size 6 to a size 14. But then a size 14, I don't think is even the average size of women in the UK. And they called me Sumo Spice. I mean, how disgusting is that? So whoever this person is, I'm not gonna say it's a guy. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. The editor probably was. But they thought it was appropriate to call a young woman who actually had been open, because she kind of felt she had to be, about her issues, and it was okay to call her Sumo Spice. How sick is that? It's really fucked up, isn't it?

Steven Bartlett 51:45 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 51:45 I mean, worst things happen to people and, you know, worst things happen in the world, but in this... In my world, at that time, when that happened, it was devastating.

Steven Bartlett 51:58 Gosh, it's disgusting, isn't it?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 51:59 Yeah. They couldn't do it now. They couldn't do that now. But like I say, they... It's all a little bit reading between the lines now, isn't it?

Steven Bartlett 52:09 You, you were so young then as well. You were, you know... You're in your teen years, but you're still a child at that age, and as you say, learning who you are and what you mean... Was there a moment where you realized that... So that first comment from Chick sends you, changes your behavior. Was there a moment where you look back on and go, that was maybe the s- not the second catalyst moment, but my behavior took a really sharp turn there in terms of like exercise and obsessing over food and fitting in?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 52:36 Yeah. I, I think it was, it was more when we were in the public eye, being photographed, doing lots of photo shoots. Um, yeah. And, you know, some of it is linked to a, a need of control, isn't it? 'Cause things at that point felt very much out of our control, even though we, we, you know, we wanted to take this thing, you know, in our own hands and we wanted to make it happen. Um, I think because when things with the Spice Girls became uber successful, which was very quick after the release of Wannabe, we're flying all over the world. You're, you're in a bubble, you know, this crazy bubble, and it's great, you're having an amazing time, but you can't, you can't do things on your own terms anymore. But you can control what you put in your mouth. Or you can be in the gym where people will leave you alone 'cause they'll go, "Don't, don't bother her, she's in the

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 53:28 gym."

Steven Bartlett 53:29 You write about how you turned into a robot.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 53:31 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 53:32 What do you mean by robot?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 53:34 Okay, so I think I found that the only way I could survive the experience was by switching off my feelings. Um, I had to eat a certain way, I had to exercise a certain amount, and I couldn't not do it. So I had to switch off any of those, like human emotions or any of those... Just even listening to my own body, this... There was a task that had to be done and I had to complete it. "I'm a robot, I must do it." And that was kind of my inner dialogue.

Steven Bartlett 54:09 And you recount this, um, this day of re- reciting some, reciting that while being on a running machine, which I found very, almost quite unnerving and quite strange, looking in the mirror and telling yourself that you're a robot.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 54:20 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 54:21 That actually happened? Y- you were looking in the-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 54:23 (laughs) I c- I can, I can completely remember being in the gym, like now I'm on the treadmill, kind of in the middle of a row of treadmills, and...Yeah. That was, that was my way of coping, to like shut down, shut off. Just, like, just this body is just a piece of machinery that will do what it has to do. And there was no- there was no choice. That was the thing, there was no choice. That was the way it had to be. And it wasn't until I had, which I, by a- you know, I- I imagine was a breakdown in 2000 when I just, you know, I hit rock bottom and, and that's when I kind of fell apart, because the robot wasn't working anymore.

Steven Bartlett 55:03 Have you... When you think back at that young girl, have you got... how do you feel about her? As an, as an, as an, you know, much more mature person now-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 55:12 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 55:12 ... how do you feel about that young girl that was going through that?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 55:16 I feel really sad for her. I feel like, you know, it was the most incredible time of my life, and the hardest. And as much as I enjoyed it, it was joyless. You know? Because I had a secret, and I was dealing with what I had to deal with, and living my dream at the same time. It- it was... It's a, it's a hell fuck is what it is. Because I wouldn't, I wouldn't change anything. I'd change that. I'd change that I became the victim of an eating disorder and exercising obsessively. I wish that hadn't happened to me so I could've fully enjoyed the wonderful things that happened to me 100%. You know, life isn't perfect. There's always issues, there's always things we have to overcome. But it was fucking dramatic in how it went down.

Steven Bartlett 56:12 What would you say to her if you could speak to her?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 56:14 I'd say sorry. I do. I feel so sorry that I did that to her. Yeah. I think I've been angry as well. I think I've aimed anger at other people, but I think as, as an adult you have to take responsibility for your actions. Um, you know, I don't wanna sound bitter and twisted, but there, you know, there were people or, you know, the tabloid media. I don't wanna bitch and moan about the tabloid media, but, you know, they probably need to be bitched and moaned about because they've been disgraced. Um, but yeah, I just... I, I, I feel sorry. I feel regretful.

Steven Bartlett 56:54 S- well, what would you say sorry to her for?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 56:57 For putting her through that. Putting her through that for... And it, and it feels like I kind of... I have a lot of guilt attached to what I was representing, but what was really going on behind closed doors. And you know what? I'm such an honest person, I can't, I can't lie. I'm so bad at lying and I- I feel so dishonest if I'm not baring myself to people. But I was living a lie. And that's probably the hardest part of it.

Steven Bartlett 57:28 That, um, that secret, the secret you're referring to is the eating disorder and the e- obsessive exercising, right?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 57:35 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 57:35 The secret you were keeping. When you say, um, eating disorder, are you referring to the binge eating disorder that ... or was that, did that come after?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 57:42 That was later, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 57:43 Okay.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 57:43 So, you know, and the, the weird thing is actually as you, as you put it like that, it's like I was in denial for a long time as well. You know, because there is a little voice that goes, "You can't carry on like this." But then the other voice, the bigger voice, goes, "You haven't got a choice." And the first eating disorder, I, I started to, um, just to eat less, smaller portions, and then I started to eliminate food groups, um, to a point, because I was terrified of fat, and then I was terrified of carbs. And then I wouldn't eat a banana because it's got too much sugar in it. Uh, I mean, I do not even know how I survived. And I think often now I get so exhausted, I think it's probably through years of being malnourished. Um, I lived on fruit and vegetables for about two years. And I was underweight, my periods stopped. You know, I kind of... I've always wanted to be a mum, but I had no choice but to live this life I was living. And I was jeopardizing the chance of being a mum. I mean, how crazy is that? It's just this compulsion.

Steven Bartlett 58:53 And then it all comes to a head in 2000 when, um-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 58:56 Yeah. I, I think like a lot of, and I don't wanna say a lot of women, but a lot of people really hate their bodies. You know, we, "Oh, I hate this." We used to get asked in interviews or, you know, "What's, what's your favorite..." What would you call them? Like, your favorite attribute or whatever. You know, "What, what do you, what do you like least about yourself?" You know, "What..." Stupidest fucking questions. Why would you s- why would you ever say... Never be negative in a, in an interview, right? Never pull people towards your vulnerability. Do you know what I mean? "Oh, I hate my, my short stubby legs." You know what I mean? Just really focus on them. Um, but yeah, I, I, I hated myself. I was never good enough. Nothing's good enough. Women do this all the time. We pull ourselves apart, you know. "I'm not funny enough, I'm not clever enough, I'm not pretty enough, I'm not sexy enough." All these things. And it's like, fuck, this body is amazing and I spent all of those years just hating it because it wasn't what I wanted it to be. But you are not your body. You know, I, I was talking to my family this weekend. I, I lost an older sibling a few years ago, and we were talking about when people pass. And, you know, and sadly he died of cancer. And we know in the last stages, people with cancer, it's, it's awful to see them in that way. But I don't remember him in that way. I remember the essence of him. I remember how funny he was and how naughty he was. And, and it's not... I don't, I don't remember anything physical, you know? And it's just, we just need to get away from this physical being.... what defines us. Fuck off, it's not what defines us. We are so much more than that. And, um, I've completely forgotten what the question was, but I just got caught up in that for a while.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:41 No, uh, no, it was so, it was so powerful and-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:00:43 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:44 ... um, it was linked to it all, all of that sort of suppression and-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:00:48 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:48 ... self-abandonment coming to a head in t- 2020- 2000.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:00:52 Yeah. Yeah, so exactly. And I'd, I'd spent years, like, trying to make myself smaller, you know, fit into the form that I should be to be doing the thing that I'm doing. And it was killing me. And, and I... This is why I started talking about my body, because I'm so grateful to my body because it took over and it, and it said to me, "We can't do this anymore. You're not doing this anymore. We are taking the control away from you." And it was hard, because from being very restrictive with my eating and being anorexic, I started binge eating, because my body, it couldn't cope anymore. It wasn't getting enough fuel. And I was depressed. I didn't know I was depressed. I had no... uh, uh, that never even crossed my mind that I had depression. I just knew I'd lost control over my eating, and it freaked me out because it was all about the way I looked. You know, it was, it, it was vanity. I was like, "Fuck, I'm eating. I'm eating loads." And, you know, I feel very grateful I was never bulimic. I tried. I couldn't make myself sick. And I- I'm so grateful for that, because I know it's a really difficult illness to recover from. So I was getting bigger and bigger and bigger because I was eating more and more and more, um, and then that was... It was the vanity that took me to the doctor's, as well as being really fucking scared because I didn't know what was going on and I was struggling to get out of bed. And that was when I was diagnosed with depression, and that was my first step on the road to recovery.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:25 You go to that doctor who ultimately diagnoses you with depression. Can you remember that day vividly?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:02:32 I do. I really do. I remember sitting opposite him at his desk, and I think I said everything out loud for the first time, about my eating, about crying and not being able to sleep. I mean, I didn't have the words. I didn't know what anxiety was. I didn't know what depression was. So I-

Steven Bartlett 1:02:48 What did you say to him? Just t- 'cause I, I want to get a color of what the symptoms were that you hadn't yourself-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:02:53 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:53 ... pinpointed as...

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:02:54 Well, I was, I was tired all the time. I couldn't control my eating. I mean, I was... I, I terrified myself because sometimes I'd catch myself in mid-binge. It was so c- it was such a compulsive thing. I'd, like... Yeah. I'd just be in the middle of just eating and I'd be like, "What you're fucking doing?" You know? And anyone... And then suddenly, I know lots of people have these issues. It's like a cycle, 'cause you do it and then you hate yourself, so you do it again, and then... You, you just... It just keeps, uh, you know, getting worse and worse until the point where I had to go to the doctor. But I felt like I was losing my mind, and I felt like I was actually going mad. And, yeah, and I didn't have the right words, and I know they are not the right words that we use today-

Steven Bartlett 1:03:37 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:03:37 ... but those were the words I had. Um, yeah. And he said, "Well, first of all, we have to... you know, we have to deal with your depression." And I was like, and it was like this weight was just lifted from my shoulders because I was like, "Oh, my God, it's got a name. It's something that can be treated. It's something you can recover from." And that was the beginning of a very, very long journey.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:00 A very, very long journey.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:04:01 A very long journey.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:02 Hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:04:03 Yeah. I think I'm still on that journey, to be honest. I don't think... I think depression is always there. It's always waiting in the wings. It's looming. Um, well, it is for me, anyway. Um, but I'm, I'm quite good at just keeping it at bay. You learn the tricks and the tools to keep it at bay.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:25 You, you describe, um, I, I believe the, um, the fear of that looming, um, depression or, you know, uh, I guess, the fear of going back to former ways or f- finding yourself in that situation as, as being quite a scary thing. Is it a scary thing, something you're, you're s- you're scared of? I don't want to mischaracterize your words there, but...

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:04:45 Um...

Steven Bartlett 1:04:46 Is it something that sits at the back of your mind in terms of you know that y- you fear there might be... that it's like a catalyst? There could be one thing that could...

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:04:56 Yeah. Uh, yeah, the, the thing I fear the most is depression because, you know, I've, I've always felt like there's a fire in my belly and even, you know, mostly at my lowest of points, I can go, "This will pass. We can do this." But there are times within my depression where I've doubted that and... Yeah, that's... (cries) I'm actually gonna... Can I get a tissue?

Steven Bartlett 1:05:33 Yeah.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:05:36 My biggest fear is, it's that, you know, really overwhelming depression where you doubt if you can make it through beyond it.

Steven Bartlett 1:05:49 You had... Do... You had those moments post, mainly where you didn't think you'd be a- you... there was doubt whether you'd be able to make it through a moment. Is this post leaving the Spice

Steven Bartlett 1:05:57 Girls, predominantly, or was there moments throughout the experience where...

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:06:00 It's never... We've, we've never officially split up as the Spice Girls.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:03 Oh, really?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:06:04 Yeah. We took that decision because there was so much press, you know, interest in us at the time. So, uh, you know, I was really, really struggling. We were working on Forever, which is the third album, as a four-piece without Geri, and I'd worked on my solo record and I... and I was having a really, really hard time, and it was too much. I found the environment too much, and I think the girls knew me too well.You know, I was, I was dealing with these demons, these in- inner demons, and they could, they could just read me like a book. And I just didn't want to be in their company, because I had to deal with it myself, you know? So I, I did want to leave the band. But we, we took the decision to never officially split up because we, because we didn't want the press, press intrusion. We were terrified-

Steven Bartlett 1:06:52 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:06:53 ... of... 'Cause we knew... I mean, I slipped up once on a TV show. I did a show with Frank Skinner, and I used past tense. I said, "When I was a Spice Girl," or whatever the wording I used was, and the press jumped on it. And there was camera crews outside my house the next day.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:07 Frightening.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:07:07 And they chased me down the road. And yeah, and it was just like, we, we couldn't, uh, none of us could face that. And the, the, you know, the beauty of that is now we kind of feel like... At the time, we needed separation. You know, we'd been like this. Our lives had been so intertwined that we needed that space. But now we've had time to do that and grow and become individu- individuals and mums and, and have these separate lives, we can come back together, and we, we really enjoy each other and respect each other. So it... We quite like that we've never split up. You know what I mean?

Steven Bartlett 1:07:43 Yeah.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:07:43 So we'll always, we'll always be Spice Girls. When people say former Spi- I'm not a former Spice Girl. I am a Spice Girl. And we will always all be Spice Girls. Even Victoria, when she didn't go on stage in 2019, she's still a very, very important part of that show.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:58 2019.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:07:59 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:59 Your, your, you know... You recount in your book about how coming back together was actually a really pleasant experience, and it-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:08:05 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:08:05 It taught you a lot about your previous time together in the, in the Spice Girls. But let's start with the point about Victoria, then. A lot of, lot was written about that. Obviously when press do interviews, they're trying to twist your words and find something, "Wow, how can we turn them against each other?" Like, that's what... That's the game, right?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:08:19 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:08:19 They do... (laughs) Um, so how, how did you all feel when y- you know, you knew that Victoria wasn't coming back to the group and you were gonna be doing it as a four?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:08:28 Yeah. There, there was a few feelings about that, because obviously we were gutted.

Steven Bartlett 1:08:32 Hmm. Well, you would be.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:08:33 You know, we wanted her there.

Steven Bartlett 1:08:34 Yeah.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:08:34 Totally wanted her there. And we were scared 'cause we thought, "Shit, are people gonna want us as a four-piece?" Um, you know, in a different configuration. And the thing is, you know, let's not... You know, well, let's be honest here. Victoria is a huge international icon. You know, she has gone on to be something in her own right, you know. In the fashion world, in the world of celebrity, she's much bigger than the others of us individually. Um, I don't think anything's as big as the Spice Girls. You know, we all feel that. But without her, it's like, are people gonna take us seriously? Um, so yeah. So there was, there was different feelings around it. The, the wonderful thing about it was she was very supportive, and it was really important for us to make sure she was happy. So she was involved creatively. You know, we wanted her to sign everything off. We wanted her to know exactly what we were gonna do. And it was such an incredible experience, I... It felt like she was part of it anyway.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:31 Why didn't you... I didn't... I missed the story at that time, but why didn't she want to be... What was her public statement? What was the reason?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:09:38 The public statement is because of family and commitments.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:41 Okay.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:09:41 Which is completely, you know-

Steven Bartlett 1:09:43 Yeah.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:09:43 ... understandable. Um, but I think, you know, on a more personal level, and, and I think this has been said, I, I don't think she'd mind me saying, when we did the Olympics in 2012-

Steven Bartlett 1:09:54 Yeah.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:09:54 ... she had a really hard time.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:56 Okay.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:09:56 It was... She was petrified. I mean, we were all bloody petrified, but to the point where it's worth it.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:02 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:10:03 But I think it was so... You know, it was... She had a lot of anxiety around that performance that she was like, "You know what, girls? I'm putting my dancing shoes up."

Steven Bartlett 1:10:11 Hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:10:12 Um, away. So yeah, so we totally got... You know, we respected her decision.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:16 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:10:17 Um, but yeah, but we were still sad about it. But you know what? We went on to have the most successful tour we've ever done, um, you know, with her blessing, sadly without her. But we did it, and it was incredible, and it really is truly some of my happiest Spice Girls memories.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:35 One of the things that I wish I'd asked Liam Payne when I spoke to him about One Direction and the, the group dynamic, and then what happens when the group are no longer making music-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:10:43 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:44 ... at the time. I don't want to say split up 'cause that is a bit loaded. But when they're no longer together is, um... What, what happens in the outside world, in the media, is people then start comparing the, the, like, the post-band successes.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:10:58 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:58 And I think this can be very, very toxic because you're then being compared against, in the case of, like, One Direction, these four, five other, four other individuals. You're then sort of measured. Your life then becomes measured against who did the best after. It was measured during-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:11:13 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:13 ... as you talk about in magazines where they said, "Who is the hottest and who is the this?" And-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:11:17 Who's your favorite?

Steven Bartlett 1:11:17 Yeah, exactly. Um, but then post, you've got, you know, as it relates to One Direction, you've got H- Harry Styles, who is just, you know-

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:11:25 Yeah, untouchable.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:26 ... untouchable. (laughs) And I, and I, and I wonder, like, no matter how, how amazing the objective success is of, like, another member, are they... They're always compared to this person.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:11:36 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:36 How true is that in your case?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:11:39 Um, yeah, it's true. It's so hard. It's so hard to go on and, and become a solo artist because you... Like, this is what, like, really drives me mad about the media, right? They tell you things you already know. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:11:53 (laughs)

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:11:55 It's like, you know, "No one's interested in you. They just want the Spice Girls." "I know." Um, but no. I mean, that isn't totally true. But yeah, yeah, you're right. It's really, really hard, because we get compared so much within the band and then post-the-band. But it's like, you know, you, you ha- you have to have this logical brain, don't you? Where you go, you know, "How do we measure success?" You know, for me, there are areas of my life, I'm so happy, I'm so successful. And then there are others that need a bit of work. But I think as a, as a fully grown adult, you have to go, "Stop comparing yourself." You know, other people might want to do it, but you can't do it. We all do it. We all log on to Instagram, we go, "Oh, their life's amazing." Bullshit. No one's life is amazing. Obviously-

Steven Bartlett 1:12:39 Yeah. (laughs)

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:12:40 ... you know, there's something going on. So I, I think, yeah, it's just...... we go off, go on our little tangents sometimes, but it's just to just come back home and, yeah, concentrate on the important things.

Steven Bartlett 1:12:51 You, when you, when you went on the, the reunion tour, what did you learn about your former experience from that tour?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:13:00 I learned it was a shame that we couldn't fully appreciate it at the time. Because... And you're never gonna change history, and you're never gonna change things moving forward because it's so chaotic and new at the time that you'll just be a little bit in survival mode. You know, you're just kind of, at points, going through the motions. You know, I meet younger artists now. Like, I've been lucky enough to meet Billie Eilish a few times, and I, I can... I, I relate to her so much. I think I, I saw her perform at Shepherd's Bush Empire, and she was already way too big to be playing that incredible venue. And all these predominantly teenage girls were screaming for her, screaming at her, and singing her songs, and it just made me go back to the Spice Girls shows. I know she's very different as an artist, but I just kind of felt this kinship with her. And so, at times, I just look at her and I kind of feel like I, I know what she's feeling and what she's going through. So whenever I have the opportunity to see her, I just kind of have this little connect with her, which is like...

Steven Bartlett 1:14:03 Why does that make you emotional?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:14:06 Because this incredible thing happens to you and it's so hard to appreciate it, because it's so intense. You know?

Steven Bartlett 1:14:15 Because that experience was so tumultuous for you, because there were so many difficulties, as you approached the reunion, was there fear of, you know, the, the former issues? As well as the good times, but also the bad times coming with that?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:14:30 Always. Whenever us girls get together, there's, there's little triggers. You know, and I'm scared, but I have to face them because, you know, I've learned through experience of the other things I've gone on to do with the girls, we re- reunited in 2007, the Olympics 2019, face the fear and actually beautiful things happen. So, yeah. And, you know, we're much more mindful of each other now as well because, you know, everyone have their shit to deal with. You know, it wasn't pain selling for anyone.

Steven Bartlett 1:14:57 Was that tour much of the reason you were inspired to write your book?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:15:00 Yeah. It totally was.

Steven Bartlett 1:15:02 Why?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:15:02 I mean, you know, sometimes I still question it. I'm still questioning it as we speak. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:15:07 (laughs)

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:15:08 I, I just felt... I, I started to feel like my story's incredible. You know? I, I'm just, I'm just a girl, I'm a normal girl from the northwest, working class background, and I have achieved my dreams and I go on to work in this industry, work as an international artist. I mean, it blows my mind when I think about what I've achieved, what I've continued to go on to do, and, and I want to inspire people. And I've... Gosh, I've had hard times. You know, I've had times when I've thought, "I don't know if I can carry on." I don't know if I can carry on in this industry, I don't know if I can carry on in this life. But I've done it. And, and I just really hope that people can read this book and have a laugh. You know, there's been some funny bits, and some great memories. But be inspired a- and also find some hope within it. Because, you know, I have... I, I, I personally, for me, feel like I've been at rock bottom at a time, but I've worked my way up, back up to, like, feeling okay. And feeling great, sometimes. So yeah, I know, I know people, lots of people struggle with some of the issues that I've had to deal with.

Steven Bartlett 1:16:22 Why, wh- what stopped you from writing this book sooner?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:16:25 Fear. Bit scared. A bit scared to go back to those times. I knew it was gonna be hard. It was actually harder than I thought it was gonna be.

Steven Bartlett 1:16:35 Really?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:16:35 Yeah. And recording the audiobook, which is something I definitely wanted to do, that's a lot. It's a lot, 'cause I think to write those words is one thing, but then to speak them is something else. Um, you can be interviewed and talk about these situations, but kinda going through it chronologically is, is really, really draining. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:16:59 You've just been writ- um, reading the audiobook out in a studio, you sit there alone in these, um, audiobook recordings in a small room. Is that, is that same experience?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:17:07 Yes. Exactly, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:17:08 And you read through this, this s- book that you've just written. Um, what was the hardest part for you to read?

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:17:16 I'm only halfway through. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:17:17 Okay. (laughs)

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:17:18 I haven't even got to the really tough bit yet. Um, but, you know what's weird? I wonder if you would find this too. Sometimes it's the things you don't expect-

Steven Bartlett 1:17:27 Mm-hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:17:27 ... to get ye, get ye. I got really upset the other day when I started reading a part, I, I can't even remember which bit it was, but it really surprised me. 'Cause I know there's like chapter 14, is like ingrained in my brain, chapter 14-

Steven Bartlett 1:17:41 Hmm.

Melanie C (Mel C / Sporty Spice) 1:17:41 ... is when I talk about my eating disorders and, and depression and, and that, the really lowest point, um, of my life. I know that's gonna be hard to read, I've not got there yet. Um, but yeah, some of the other points have, have been quite emotional.

Steven Bartlett 1:18:00 And is that, is that part hard to read and recount now because, because of those feelings you described earlier where you have the sadness for that younger version of yourself and you, you also said anger? Is that why it's hard to, to