The Diary of a CEOWhy grief mimics psychosis and unlocks deeper senses
Through grief after her husband died, a neuroscientist explored somatic work; mediums; and a wider model of the human mind beyond the brain.
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 9:00
Opening Claim: A Neuroscientist Says We Can Talk To The Dead
Bartlett frames the conversation as potentially revolutionary if Swart’s claims about communicating with the dead are true. Swart reveals she has kept a four-year secret about her experiences after her husband’s death and expresses 100% certainty in her conclusions. She sets the stage by acknowledging the taboo nature of the topic, especially given her background in psychiatry where similar claims can be pathologized.
- •Dr. Tara Swart introduces herself as a neuroscientist and psychiatrist who lost her husband to leukemia.
- •She claims it is possible to communicate with someone who has passed away and says she is ‘100%’ sure.
- •She notes the taboo and fear of being seen as insane, particularly because she has helped commit people for similar experiences.
- •Bartlett commits to playing devil’s advocate and asking the questions his skeptical audience would ask.
- 9:00 – 19:40
Beyond Five Senses: Brain As Filter And Human Potential
Swart argues that humans drastically underestimate their sensory and cognitive capacity. She introduces the idea that the brain filters a larger mind so we can function materially and cites research suggesting humans have about 34 senses. She positions Bartlett as a rational skeptic she wants to convince, framing this as a test case for wider societal impact.
- •Swart claims humans have around 34 senses, not five, based on a literature review.
- •She proposes the brain filters down a more expansive mind to allow functioning in the material world.
- •Her hypothesis: we are capable of far more than we believe, both perceptually and cognitively.
- •She explicitly targets rational, data-first thinkers as the audience she wants to open up to intuition and ‘the unseen.’
- 19:40 – 36:40
The Secret: Robin’s Death, Early Signs, And Self-Doubt
Swart recounts the death of her husband Robin and the devastation that followed, including reading condolence cards on their wedding anniversary. She describes seeing robins everywhere, a vivid visitation-like experience, and early forays into consulting mediums, which she ultimately found unsatisfying. Simultaneously, she interrogated her own sanity, given her clinical background.
- •Robin was diagnosed terminally with leukemia and died two days before their fourth wedding anniversary.
- •Swart describes pervasive grief and feeling ‘totally lost and broken.’
- •She notices repeated appearances of robins and a strong nocturnal experience of Robin’s presence by her bed.
- •Dissatisfied with mediums, she concludes that if communication is possible, she should be able to develop it herself.
- •She repeatedly cross-checks herself for depression, psychosis, and mania using psychiatric criteria.
- 36:40 – 44:40
Grief In The Body: Somatic Trauma And Psychosis-Like States
The conversation shifts to how grief manifests physically and neurologically. Swart details intense unexplained body pain and freezing sensations linked to specific dates from Robin’s illness, which she later maps to trauma memory. She introduces somatic work and the idea that trauma can shut down speech centers, making talk therapy insufficient on its own.
- •Around the first anniversary of Robin’s death, Swart experiences weeks of severe body pain and depression-like symptoms.
- •Reviewing her calendar, she realises symptoms began on the date she took Robin home to die, suggesting her body remembered what her conscious mind had not.
- •She wakes shivering and freezing in the weeks between death and cremation, which she links to Robin’s body lying in a cold morgue drawer.
- •Swart explains that trauma can shut down speech-related brain regions, leaving unarticulated experiences trapped in the body.
- •She advocates somatic therapies—massage, dance, art, tai chi, craniosacral therapy—as crucial adjuncts to talk therapy.
- 44:40 – 58:20
Thought Insertion, Creativity, And Training Yourself To Notice Signs
Swart describes experiencing ‘thought insertion,’ a classic psychotic symptom, yet simultaneously analyzing it as a psychiatrist. She introduces the shared trait vulnerability model: the same neural features that underlie creativity and noticing patterns can also predispose to psychopathology. From this, she formulates a method to train perception—loosening filters and cultivating ‘the art of noticing’—to receive and interpret signs.
- •She experiences vivid ‘thought insertion’—thoughts in her head she’s sure are not hers—while fully aware of its diagnostic meaning.
- •Swart equates aspects of grief with psychosis due to neurochemical and signaling changes in the brain.
- •She explains hyperconnectivity, novelty salience, and low latent inhibition as overlapping traits in creativity and mental illness.
- •If combined with high IQ and working memory, these traits fuel creativity; combined with deficits, they can fuel breakdown.
- •She decides to use this framework to expand awareness safely, loosening filters and deliberately noticing coincidences and signs.
- •She recounts specific sign-requests (phoenix, infinity symbol, ‘button’ examples, etc.) with increasingly rapid and precise ‘hits.’
- 58:20 – 1:11:40
Skepticism, Confirmation Bias, And Using Coincidence Constructively
Bartlett challenges Swart with probabilistic reasoning and confirmation bias—the idea that unlikely coincidences are statistically expected. Swart doesn’t deny the psychology but encourages using it intentionally. They explore the line between pattern recognition and delusion and discuss how to set stringent criteria for signs so they are less likely to be random hits.
- •Bartlett articulates a confirmation-bias argument: rare coincidences are expected occasionally; their rarity doesn’t make them miraculous.
- •Swart concedes confirmation bias exists but proposes harnessing the brain’s filtering (reticular activating system) in one’s favour.
- •She describes tightening sign criteria (specific, unusual, multiple occurrences by a deadline, or requiring going out of one’s way).
- •They discuss how grief’s altered state can make people vulnerable and why framing, literacy, and community support matter.
- •Swart emphasizes the ‘art of noticing’ as a life skill that can uncover opportunities and meaning, not only signs from the dead.
- 1:11:40 – 1:31:20
Near-Death Experiences & Terminal Lucidity: Challenging Materialism
Swart outlines evidence she finds compelling from near-death experiences (NDEs) and terminal lucidity research. She focuses on medically documented cases where non-functioning brains seem to support coherent consciousness just before death or during clinical flatlines. These observations underpin her belief that mind can operate independently of brain matter.
- •Terminal lucidity: dementia or non-responsive patients becoming fully lucid 1–24 hours before death with no known neurological explanation.
- •She cites a 2009 Alzheimer’s case where an 82-year-old woman returned to full coherent memory and personality for a day, then died.
- •NDE examples: orthopedic surgeon Dr. Mary Neal’s prolonged submersion and other-realm account; neurosurgeon Dr. Eben Alexander’s coma, clinical death, and later conviction of a benevolent consciousness.
- •Psychiatrist Dr. Bruce Greyson’s ICU ‘red MG’ story: a patient saw his nurse in an NDE, unaware she had died in a car crash the day prior.
- •Swart quotes Prof. Alexander Bathiany’s idea that border-of-death phenomena may reveal a truth that’s always present but unseen.
- •She concludes current evidence is incompatible with a purely emergent, brain-based view of mind and suggests mind may be nonlocal.
- 1:31:20 – 1:41:40
Souls, Consciousness, And What Survives Death
Confronted by Bartlett’s insistence on evidence, Swart shares her metaphysical view: that there is a larger field—call it consciousness, universe, or ‘cosmic soup’—into which personal essence flows. She leans on her subjective certainty about Robin and on scientists who model the brain as a receiver. Both agree these ideas are unproven, but not ruled out.
- •Swart believes the psyche or soul persists in a non-material domain after death, possibly to reincarnate but not annihilated.
- •She bases her conviction partly on personal felt experience of Robin’s ongoing presence and communication.
- •She references David Eagleman’s ‘brain as radio receiver’ metaphor and Donald Hoffman’s claim that spacetime isn’t fundamental.
- •She emphasises that while these models can’t be proved, current science also can’t disprove them.
- •Bartlett underscores his preference for rigorous evidence but admits repeated mind changes have made him more agnostic and humble.
- 1:41:40 – 1:52:30
Practices To Cultivate Signs, Intuition, And Spiritual Grounding
Swart outlines practical steps from her book ‘The Signs’ for anyone wanting to heighten intuition, receive signs, or simply heal. She emphasizes neuroaesthetics, nature, and community as structured ways to open perception and counter modern disconnection. They also explore how belief in something transcendent can be both beneficial and potentially dangerous, depending on its form.
- •Part 1 of her book: defining signs, helping readers notice if they’ve already been receiving them.
- •Part 2: practices—engaging with art, making and beholding beauty, time in nature, and deep community—to open and train perception.
- •She argues that community support and non-ridiculing spaces are crucial; ridicule could shut down exploration and healing.
- •They discuss belief in transcendence as often psychologically beneficial (purpose, meaning, prosocial behaviour) but acknowledge religious extremism as a counterexample.
- •Swart frames her spirituality as non-religious, focused on caring for humanity, relevance, and helping people feel seen and heard.
- 1:52:30 – 2:03:20
Trauma In Fascia, Serotonin Hypothesis, And Somatic Release
Returning to embodied experience, Swart explains emerging ideas on how trauma may be stored in fascia, blood flow, and serotonin signalling. She connects these mechanisms with ancient practices like wailing, drumming, and chest-beating at funerals, arguing that ancestors intuitively used effective somatic techniques to process grief.
- •She references Bessel van der Kolk’s ‘The Body Keeps the Score’ and new ‘serotonin hypothesis’ explanations of trauma in the body.
- •Fascia is now seen as an important organ of connectivity, not merely surgical waste.
- •Constricted capillaries and disrupted serotonin-mediated blood flow to skin, fascia, and muscles may encode trauma physically.
- •Somatic releases can be facilitated by dancing, singing, chanting, drumming, yoga, craniosacral therapy, and similar practices.
- •She notes that ancient rituals—like Greek mourners wailing and beating their chests—likely functioned as effective trauma-release methods.
- 2:03:20 – 2:15:50
Gut–Brain Axis, Intuition, And Physical Foundations For Higher Consciousness
Swart details bi-directional communication between the brain and gut, emphasizing gut microbiome health as the most direct way to influence brain function and intuition. By reducing inflammation and free radical damage, especially in the energy-hungry brain and hippocampus, we free cognitive resources not just for problem-solving but for deeper embodied intuition.
- •She describes a three-way gut–brain axis: brain, enteric nervous system, and microbiome, linked via vagus nerve and immune signaling.
- •A Western diet leads to dysbiosis and inflammation, some of which crosses the blood–brain barrier and harms neurons.
- •Because the brain uses ~20% of body energy, it’s particularly vulnerable to oxidative stress and free radicals.
- •Optimizing gut health (diet, prebiotics, probiotics, exercise, stress reduction, art/music therapy) supports cognition and mood.
- •She proposes that trauma and ‘hidden wisdom’ are both stored in the body; similar embodied practices can access deeper intuition, not just heal wounds.
- 2:15:50 – 2:27:30
Dark Retreats, Altered States, And Emulating Near-Death Experiences
Swart introduces dark retreats from Tibetan and ancient traditions as a way for ordinary people to approximate the transformative aspects of NDEs. She explains how prolonged darkness alters melatonin and perception, leading to visions and shifts in worldview. The discussion then broadens to psychedelics, breathwork, and art as different roads to altered states that can expand what we consider possible.
- •Dark retreats involve staying in pitch darkness for 7–49 days to induce altered states similar to NDEs.
- •Initial days involve increased melatonin and sleep; later, people see lights, animals, and deities in total darkness.
- •Reported outcomes mirror NDE after-effects: less fear of death, greater joy and compassion, more willingness to take healthy risks.
- •She notes research showing certain breathwork techniques can mimic moderate doses of psilocybin in their neural impact.
- •Swart positions awe in nature and immersive arts (e.g., ballet) as non-pharmacological routes to spiritual, altered states.
- 2:27:30 – 2:40:50
Meaning, Disconnection, And A Call Back To Ancient Wisdom
The conversation zooms out to societal trends: individualism, choice, and the erosion of shared structures of meaning. Bartlett and Swart agree that many people feel unanchored, turning to spirituality or religion amid midlife crises. Swart suggests that reconnecting with nature, community, and embodied practices can coexist with technological advancement and help restore a sense of purpose and belonging.
- •Bartlett observes that increased freedom and choice have weakened traditional layers of identity (family, tribe, nation, god), leaving many anchored only to ‘me.’
- •Swart recalls predicting a post-pandemic mental health crisis that could alternatively be a spiritual revolution.
- •They discuss technology’s paradox: hyper-connected yet emotionally and socially disconnected.
- •Swart calls for a return to ancient wisdom—cycles of nature, ritual, shared meaning—integrated with modern life.
- •She defines ‘true connection’ as deep, non-transactional, meaningful, altruistic ties to self, others, and something greater.
- 2:40:50 – 2:59:10
Love, Loss, And Purpose After Robin
In a vulnerable section, Swart recounts traumatic hospital episodes with Robin, his near-death crash call, his insistence on leaving the hospital, and their final intimate moments. She cries as she speaks about not wanting him forgotten and feeling he still has a purpose for her to fulfill. Bartlett asks about future love and how she has changed; she answers with ambivalence, gratitude, and a newfound fragility.
- •She relives an ICU crash call and Robin’s words: ‘When I thought this was the end, I just kept thinking, please let me see her face one more time.’
- •She describes advocating for Robin’s discharge against medical caution and managing his care at home, briefly restoring his strength.
- •She recounts their last days, including a final attempt to lie together in his hospital bed, which she interprets as his goodbye.
- •Swart expresses grief at the thought of Robin being forgotten and says she believes there’s still a purpose she must fulfill.
- •On future love, she says she’s open to receiving it but won’t actively look, feeling both too vulnerable and already deeply fulfilled by what she had.
- •Friends describe her as more fragile and vulnerable; she now accepts she may help others more deeply because of what she’s endured.
- 2:59:10
Open-Minded Skepticism, Purpose, And Final Reflections
In closing, Bartlett reflects on how podcasting has made him more agnostic, having changed his mind so many times he now resists fixed positions. Swart reiterates that she’s not claiming to have all the answers, only to open forbidden questions with scientific seriousness and personal honesty. They discuss the identity of the show’s audience, the value of curiosity, and the best thing anyone has done for her: Robin’s demonstration that unconditional love is real.
- •Bartlett explains how hearing diverse perspectives has pushed him towards agnosticism and away from dogmatic certainty.
- •He defines his audience as ‘DOAC’: dreamers, open-minded, aware, and seeking connection.
- •Swart says science must remain curious and boundary-pushing; believing we already know everything makes science pointless.
- •She urges people simply to ‘try’ asking for signs and noticing, not to adopt beliefs blindly.
- •In the show’s traditional final question, she says the best thing anyone has ever done for her is Robin proving unconditional love exists.
- •They promote her book ‘The Signs’ as a bridge between skeptics and believers, offering a structured yet open exploration of these ideas.
