Wesley Huff: Why oral cultures make Gospel claims testable

1. 0:00 – 2:21

   Intro

   1. SBSteven Bartlett0:00

      Am I going to hell?

   2. WHWesley Huff0:01

      Yes. But here's the thing. Everybody is going to hell, and it's not because they don't believe in God. And look, I'm a historian and a theologian, so I study ancient Biblical manuscripts, and if you truly understand what this book is saying, I don't want you to experience that.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett0:17

      This is not a place I want to go. So what do I do about that?

   4. WHWesley Huff0:20

      It's not about trying to earn my way into heaven. It's not about checking off, oh, I read the Bible this many times. I didn't lie, I didn't steal, I didn't cheat. Like, it's none of that. But here's the problem. Unfortunately, we bought the lie that we are the sum of our actions, where we're chasing after things that aren't going to give us what we actually need. Which is also why we live in a world that is lacking in purpose and meaning.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett0:41

      But the part that I've always struggled with is the answer being religion as an antidote to that feeling, because I require a really high standard of evidence-

   6. WHWesley Huff0:48

      Sure

   7. SBSteven Bartlett0:48

      ... because of the way that I am.

   8. WHWesley Huff0:49

      Well, I think not only can it provide an antidote, it can provide the antidote, and I'll explain why.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett0:54

      Like, how can we trust human accounts of these things? And then how do you take people who agree that there's clearly something missing to believing that what's written in the Bible is the thing that should guide my life? But also, do you have any doubt?

   10. WHWesley Huff1:05

       Oh, of course. Especially when there are times of struggle and pain and suffering. Like the whole Epstein thing right now, we are seeing examples of true evil. So there are moments where I think, "How could there be a good God?" However, from my investigation, I'm convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that there's actual evidence for the existence of God, the historical reliability of the Bible, and the philosophical explanations for meaning and purpose.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett1:27

       And what is that?

   12. WHWesley Huff1:28

       First, we have...

   13. SBSteven Bartlett1:30

       That is some of the most persuasive evidence one can receive. Guys, I've got a quick favor to ask you. We're approaching a significant subscriber milestone on this show, and roughly sixty-nine percent of you that listen and love this show haven't yet subscribed for whatever reason. If there was ever a time for you to do us a favor, if we've ever done anything for you, given you value in any way, it is simply hitting that subscribe button. And it means so much to myself, but also to my team, 'cause when we hit these milestones, we go away as a team and celebrate. And it's the thing, the simple free easy thing you can do to help make this show a little bit better every single week. So that's a favor I would ask you, and, um, if you do hit the subscribe button, I won't let you down, and we'll continue to find small ways to make this whole production better. Thank you so much for being part of this journey. It means the world. And, uh, yeah, let's do this. [upbeat music]

2. 2:21 – 6:25

   Why Religious Belief Is Suddenly Surging Again

   1. SBSteven Bartlett2:22

      Wesley, I have this fascinating, uh, graph in front of me here, and it shows several things that I find to be really, really interesting. One of them is that as of twenty twenty-four, the decline of religion has started to level off and actually increase a little bit. And now sixty-three percent of US adults identify as Christian, which is roughly a hundred and sixty million people. In twenty twenty-five, Bible sales hit a twenty-one-year high in the United States with nineteen million units sold. Weekly Bible reading amongst US adults has increased to forty-two percent, which is up twelve percent since twenty twenty-four. And in twenty twenty-four, Christian and gospel music streams in the US increased by roughly twenty percent, according to The Washington Times. Wesley, what is going on in society if we zoom out?

   2. WHWesley Huff3:12

      I think we're in a unique bubble where we've found ourselves in a timeframe where we're connected more than ever. We've kind of come out of a period of time where the New Atheism was very, very popular. You had Dawkins, Daniel, uh, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris, uh, Christopher Hitchens, and they made a big impact in the early 2000s.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett3:39

      I think we should probably just give some color to what New Atheism is.

   4. WHWesley Huff3:42

      Sure, yeah.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett3:43

      Um, I've actually got a graph here, which I'll throw up on the screen, which shows the rise and then the, the fall of New Atheism.

   6. WHWesley Huff3:48

      Yeah.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett3:48

      I was pulled in by New Atheism.

   8. WHWesley Huff3:51

      Hmm.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett3:51

      And that meant that I... And again, I should probably preface my beliefs because people are gonna wanna know what my bias is when I'm asking questions. I grew up in a very Christian household up until the age of eighteen. I then became agnostic slash atheist when I started consuming a lot of this stuff from Richard Dawkins and-

   10. WHWesley Huff4:03

       Mm-hmm

   11. SBSteven Bartlett4:04

       ... Sam Harris and all of these people, and then I find myself at a point now where I'm just open-minded and curious.

   12. WHWesley Huff4:08

       Hmm.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett4:09

       But I have lots of questions.

   14. WHWesley Huff4:10

       Yeah. You had these individuals who are writing these very influential works. But I sometimes wonder whether the New Atheism movement worked a lot more effectively in print than it did in actual real life. Like, in terms of the practicality of the application of the things that were being talked about, especially in regards to meaning, if you apply ideas like you being a product of timeless, matterless chance, what does that actually give you in terms of the ultimate identity questions? And so I think, I think that's true in a lot of circumstances where you have these seeds that are planted, and they grow, and they produce trees that produce fruit that are kind of hard to digest in their actual application. And along with that, we have a world that's very complex. We're more connected than we ever have been. I don't know if we're truly... we were ever truly meant to know as much information as we do, especially about things that are going on around the world and things that are hard to, to comprehend. And so what I think that all kind of adds up to is people asking questions about, "Okay, I'm here. I'm right now trying to figure out what's going on. How do I actually find out the answers to a lot of these questions that just go beyond the here and the now that I'm experiencing?" This is what, um, individuals like James K. Smith call the dynamics of disenchantment, where people are struggling with these transcendent questions, questions that are metaphysical, that go beyond just the here and the now in the world. Why is the three pounds of gray matter in my brain able to comprehend the complexities of the universe? How do I, how do I come up with a solution to that problem?So I think that's part of it. I think it's kind of moving on in a world that just is probably more messy than it's ever been. A lot of countries, the UK, Europe, Canada, America, all of these Western countries, they, they were founded on these Judeo-Christian ethics of foundations that come from the Old and the New Testaments,

3. 6:25 – 8:33

   The Hidden Debate: Atheism vs. Faith Movement

   1. WHWesley Huff6:25

      what we call the Bible. And a lot of people kind of attempted to divorce the religious aspect from the societies and societies became less and less overtly religious in those natures. And then a lot of people saw that their parents were no longer going to church, like the Bible wasn't part of kind of the household any longer. And I talk to a lot of young people who look at that and they say in almost like a rebellion against their parents, they're now interested in that. Their parents rebelled by disassociating from religion, and now I wonder if there's part of a rebellion in kind of looking back and trying to reclaim some of that religious stuff.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett7:11

      I think in part as well, this younger generation, Gen Zs and I guess to some extent it's also millennials, have been told to live more individualistic lives and that's really been glamorized, like be your own boss.

   3. WHWesley Huff7:23

      Yep.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett7:24

      And now we work remotely-

   5. WHWesley Huff7:25

      Yep. Totally

   6. SBSteven Bartlett7:26

      ... and stand on your own two feet. And we're even seeing people getting into sort of relationships later and later in their lives and having less children. So they're more... It appears people are more unanchored than they've ever been, and that was to some degree glamorized.

   7. WHWesley Huff7:39

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett7:39

      Um, but it also appears that when we are unanchored, when we don't have responsibilities or we're not part of something, mental health issues, um, are quick, are quick to follow.

   9. WHWesley Huff7:50

      Yeah.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett7:50

       And for this generation, they're suffering the most with those types of mental health issues, and then one would assert that they would therefore be searching more for answers-

   11. WHWesley Huff7:57

       Mm-hmm

   12. SBSteven Bartlett7:58

       ... to some of these existential questions.

   13. WHWesley Huff7:59

       Mm-hmm. Expressive individualism, I think it rose. That's the kind of the terminology in sociol- in the sociological literature that they refer to it. But I, I think you touched on a good point in that like as we've removed God, part of the intellectual light, enlightenment was that we would move away from the shackles of religiosity and the concept of a creator, and that would lead us into a utopia. And I think the more and more we've removed that from society, that hasn't decreased our levels of anxiety and depression and meaning.

4. 8:33 – 15:09

   Why Humans Aren’t Meant to Live Alone

   1. WHWesley Huff8:33

      I, I think it's increased it.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett8:34

      Yeah. And especially celebrity worship, social media, building a following of your own-

   3. WHWesley Huff8:40

      Totally

   4. SBSteven Bartlett8:40

      ... all the like sort of low-key narcissism-

   5. WHWesley Huff8:42

      Yeah [laughs]

   6. SBSteven Bartlett8:43

      ... has made us more and more and more and more important, and that seems to correlate with worse and worse and worse mental health when you start to become more individualistic and think more and more about yourself-

   7. WHWesley Huff8:53

      Mm

   8. SBSteven Bartlett8:54

      ... and self-importance-

   9. WHWesley Huff8:55

      Mm-hmm

   10. SBSteven Bartlett8:55

       ... versus others and a bigger picture.

   11. WHWesley Huff8:58

       Mm-hmm. I think we are created for community. I think we are, as human beings, a creature that is created for community. Ultimately, like cards on the table as a Christian, because I believe we are created in the image of a God who exists in a set of living, loving relationships. Like, that's what the Trinity is when we talk about that idea within Christian theology. God exists in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and so being created in the image of God, part of that is you are created for relationship. And so in a society that's continually removing us, you know, you need to be an influencer. You're influencing everybody else.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett9:38

       Mm-hmm.

   13. WHWesley Huff9:38

       When I think we're not created to be lone wolves or lone rangers. We're created to live amongst community and have that be something that likewise gives us fulfillment. It's not that people who are leaders or, you know, rise to the top are wrong by any stretch, but in a society where we're alone together because w- we are sitting behind computer screens-

   14. SBSteven Bartlett10:05

       Mm-hmm

   15. WHWesley Huff10:05

       ... and we're talking to hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people in some cases, but, but we're secluded.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett10:11

       Mm-hmm.

   17. WHWesley Huff10:11

       I think that, that does something to our souls because we were made to be in relationship with other people.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett10:20

       I agree with everything you've said as it relates to the sort of crisis of meaning in society.

   19. WHWesley Huff10:26

       Mm.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett10:26

       And I also agree with many of your reasons as to why that's occurred. The part that I've always struggled with is then the answer being Christianity-

   21. WHWesley Huff10:35

       Sure

   22. SBSteven Bartlett10:35

       ... or any other religion.

   23. WHWesley Huff10:36

       Sure.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett10:37

       And I agree with, you know, so many of the things you've said, but then-

   25. WHWesley Huff10:39

       Mm

   26. SBSteven Bartlett10:39

       ... I've, my brain has, I think in, especially after the age of 18 when I started reading about all this new atheist stuff and these questions of evil and am I going to hell and all these other things, I've not been able to get there.

   27. WHWesley Huff10:51

       Mm.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett10:52

       But I'm having this conversation with you today because I am open-minded, and although I've got like q- difficult questions to ask, I'm in pursuit of the truth, not any particular ideology or answer. So how do you take someone like me who agrees that there's clearly something missing-

   29. WHWesley Huff11:08

       Mm

   30. SBSteven Bartlett11:08

       ... who believes that there's something transcendent, like it'd be a crazy thing to assume that this is it, I, I think.
5. 15:09 – 20:02

   Is the Bible Historically Credible?

   1. WHWesley Huff15:09

      his life.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett15:10

      I mean, this is one of the things I discovered when I went through that New Atheist phase was that really everybody kind of agrees that there was a guy called Jesus from Nazareth-

   3. WHWesley Huff15:19

      Mm-hmm

   4. SBSteven Bartlett15:19

      ... and that he was a real historical person.

   5. WHWesley Huff15:21

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett15:22

      I guess the part in dispute was whether things like his resurrection actually happened-

   7. WHWesley Huff15:26

      Right

   8. SBSteven Bartlett15:26

      ... or whether he was just a spiritual leader back then, like we have spiritual leaders today. And I think one of the, one of the things that I w- got really stuck on when I was reading about Jesus and the Bible was there appears to be quite a significant gap between his life, his death-

   9. WHWesley Huff15:40

      Mm

   10. SBSteven Bartlett15:40

       ... and then the writings that go into the Bible. And for me, in my head, I was like, well, if, you know... If something happened in my life 50 years ago, I mean, I'm only 33, but if something happened 50 years ago, I would not be able to recount it. Frankly, I can't recount what happened last week accurately-

   11. WHWesley Huff15:52

       Right

   12. SBSteven Bartlett15:52

       ... let alone, like, decades ago. You've h- You must have heard this argument before.

   13. WHWesley Huff15:56

       Yes.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett15:56

       W- How do you, how do you square the circle here?

   15. WHWesley Huff15:58

       So there are a few things going on. First, we live in a hyper-literate culture. We are writing everything down. The ancient world was far less of a literate culture. They were an oral culture. These stories would've been passed in large groups at, at, at, at timeframes, especially if we're talking about the biographical material of Jesus is actually written in a closer timeframe than the majority of anyone else in the ancient world.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett16:21

       What was that gap?

   17. WHWesley Huff16:22

       It's, it's about 40 to 60 years.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett16:24

       So I really wanna... I, I imagine there's some people listening that have probably never read the Bible, and I really wanna explain to them, like, what this book is in the simplest terms. Can I... I can open your Bible?

   19. WHWesley Huff16:31

       Yeah, of course. Yeah.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett16:33

       So is there, is there, like, chapters in here?

   21. WHWesley Huff16:35

       Yeah. So the Bible is, though we now have it in one book, is 66 books written over a period of about 1,600 years on three different continents by close to 40 different authors in three different languages.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett16:48

       So I've just opened y- your Bible.

   23. WHWesley Huff16:50

       Yep.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett16:50

       And there's one section that says The Old Testament.

   25. WHWesley Huff16:53

       Yep.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett16:53

       There's another section within that section that says The New Testament.

   27. WHWesley Huff16:55

       Mm-hmm.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett16:56

       What am I looking at? Like, is this God's words? Is this a bunch of people's stories that have been compiled together? What is the Old Testament? What's the New Testament? What's the difference?

   29. WHWesley Huff17:05

       Yeah. So the Old Testament is the Hebrew scriptures, so that's the scriptures of the Jewish people.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett17:11

       Okay.
6. 20:02 – 31:16

   The Biggest Misunderstandings People Have About the Bible

   1. WHWesley Huff20:02

      Part of what he argues is that the Jewish people don't have kind of an innumerable number of re- religious texts like the Greeks do. They have a specific number, and he uses this terminology that they were laid up in the temple. So the idea is that, you know, these are the books, they're housed in the temple, and they're a set number. And he gives the number of the same number of letters in the Hebrew alphabet, 22. So you usually see this 22 or 23 number, but they group them differently. And he gives an argument that one of the reasons that there, that you, we can find a timeline for what the Jews consider scripture is he says, "There's nothing written before Moses, and there's noth- nothing written after the time of Artaxerxes," which is the Persian Empire. So the Book of Esther in the Bible is, is that time period. So though there are writings after that, there's this agreement that the voice of God in, say, the prophets giving a thus sayeth the Lord statement, like communicating messages to the people of Israel, has ceased. But the Jewish canon, though there's like a closing of it, there's a soft closing. There's an idea that there's going to be a new covenant. God's make, gonna make new pr- promises with His people, and so there are gonna be more writings.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett21:24

      Okay, so my understanding of that is that he made the case that God is no longer communicating with people to write these books.

   3. WHWesley Huff21:32

      At least that there was a stop point at Malachi, so it's sometimes referred to as the 400 years of silence for that reason.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett21:39

      From the point of Jesus's death-

   5. WHWesley Huff21:41

      Mm-hmm

   6. SBSteven Bartlett21:41

      ... what book from the New Testament is written last, and how big is that gap?

   7. WHWesley Huff21:47

      That's a debate.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett21:48

      Okay. What's the debate?

   9. WHWesley Huff21:50

      So the debate-

   10. SBSteven Bartlett21:51

       Range of debate

   11. WHWesley Huff21:51

       ... so the, the, there's a, it's a question if John's gospel is written before 70 AD or after 70 AD. And if it's written after 70 AD, it's written in the 90s. So it's written pretty far afterwards.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett22:03

       How many years?

   13. WHWesley Huff22:04

       So if Jesus dies in 33-

   14. SBSteven Bartlett22:06

       Okay, so about 60.

   15. WHWesley Huff22:08

       Yeah.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett22:08

       Okay. Fine.

   17. WHWesley Huff22:10

       Yeah. So, so the, at, at minimum I, I think like 99% of historians, biblical scholars, classicists would argue that the 27 books of the New Testament are written in the first century. And so in that sense, they're in the lifetime of the eyewitnesses to a certain degree.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett22:29

       Mm-hmm.

   19. WHWesley Huff22:29

       And there's evidence even within some of the Gospels where you have these names thrown out kind of randomly, and part of the thinking of that is that this is like citing your sources. At one point when Jesus is carrying the cross-

   20. SBSteven Bartlett22:45

       Mm-hmm

   21. WHWesley Huff22:45

       ... to Golgotha, he kind of stumbles and they get another person to carry his cross for a little bit, and that person is Joseph of Arimathea. Well, one of the Gospels names one of Joseph of Arimathea's son by name, and the thinking is that this is probably someone who's well-known within the early Jesus community. And the purpose of naming that person randomly is to say, "He's actually well-known. Go ask him."

   22. SBSteven Bartlett23:14

       I mean, logically there's quite a risk of Chinese whispers to some degree. As you were speaking, I was trying to think about things that I experienced when I was younger.

   23. WHWesley Huff23:20

       Yeah.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett23:20

       Like with my, like grandmother before she passed away, and I was trying to, like accurately recount those memories.

   25. WHWesley Huff23:25

       Yeah.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett23:25

       I was thinking of like going to her house, and then I remember one day she gave me some money, but I can't remember what she gave it to me for, and I can't remember how much she gave me. I know she put it in a card. And this was only like, hmm, 20 years ago.

   27. WHWesley Huff23:37

       Yeah.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett23:38

       And so if I was to write about that today, I would be filling in some, some gaps.

   29. WHWesley Huff23:44

       Definitely.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett23:44

       Especially, especially, this is the other thing that I always struggled with, is like especially in a world where we didn't understand science. Now, my grandmother like put it in a card and it was like I opened it, and the way she did it was often as a surprise. So in a world where I like didn't understand physics or science, I might have concluded that my mother, my grandmother did something like magical.
7. 31:16 – 35:58

   Who Actually Witnessed the Resurrection

   1. WHWesley Huff31:16

      minimum, they suffered persecution.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett31:18

      So the story in the Bible is that he was killed, uh, on the cross-

   3. WHWesley Huff31:23

      Mm-hmm

   4. SBSteven Bartlett31:23

      ... murdered on the cross, and then he was put into a tomb.

   5. WHWesley Huff31:25

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett31:26

      And then who saw him come out of the tomb?

   7. WHWesley Huff31:31

      So nobody physically sees him come out of the tomb, but the women go to the tomb in the morning and on the third day, and the tomb is empty. And so there are four accounts, right? And I think it's interesting also that we have four accounts that kind of give different angles on the stories. They're not... It's not as if they got together and they corroborated and all gave the same story. The fact is that we have four accounts that kind of capitalize on different angles, which the differentiation and detail I think actually gives credibility to the, the reliability of it. Because if they were all telling the same thing, you could argue that they got together and they colluded. They don't do that. In fact, they, they touch on different aspects of the story.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett32:18

      Are these people saying that they saw him walk out? Are they saying that they just saw it empty? What is the claims being made about his resurrection from these witnesses?

   9. WHWesley Huff32:25

      Yeah, so the tomb is empty.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett32:26

       The tomb is empty.

   11. WHWesley Huff32:27

       And so it's interesting in, in one of the accounts, um, Mary's at the tomb, and she actually talks to Jesus, but she confuses him with a gardener. Now, I think it's, it's interesting that she doesn't confude- confuse the gardener with Jesus. She confuses Jesus with the gardener. Like, she thinks that, that this person she's talking to isn't Jesus. She doesn't recognize him at first, and she, she asks him, you know, "What happened? Why is the tomb opened? Where did the body go?" And then there's also an account of an angel appearing and saying, "Why are you looking for the living among the dead? He's not here. He's risen." And then they go back to the disciples who are, you know, hiding in this upper room. Mary says, you know, "I, I've, I've met J- the tomb's empty. I've met Jesus. Jesus is not in the, the tomb. He's risen." And some of them don't even believe her. They think she's crazy. Now, we don't have, like, an eyewitness account of the tomb being open, and this is actually an embarrassing fact in the ancient world. So some of those other Gospels that I mentioned earlier that are written later on, Gospel of Thomas, Judas, Mary, Peter, there's one of them, the Gospel of Peter, which is actually trying to remedy this fact that women are the first eyewitnesses to the empty tomb, which is a, which is an embarrassing fact in the ancient world. If that's not true, if they made it up, it seems very unlikely that they would've done that because women are not considered good eyewitnesses in either Greco-Roman or, unfortunately, Jewish society in this time period. So the Gospel of Peter tries to remedy the situation by having all of the right people in the right place at the right time. It has the Jewish and the Roman officials camping out in front of the tomb when it actually happens, and then has this recounted the story of the, the, literally the stone moving, Jesus coming out, all these things. Now, we know it's not historically reliable. We know that because of when it was written. We also know that on the eve of Passover, the priests would not be camping out in front of a dead body. It's just historically, um, anachronistic. But it is an account of a literary source later on that is embarrassed by what we find in here about the biographical information of the empty tomb.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett34:46

       So is it just two women that said they met Jesus in some form after his death, Mary being one of them, which was his mother?

   13. WHWesley Huff34:54

       No.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett34:54

       Who's Mary?

   15. WHWesley Huff34:55

       Mary, so there are a number of Marys in, in the New Testament. Um, this was Mary Magdalene.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett35:00

       Okay.

   17. WHWesley Huff35:00

       Yeah. Who w- who was, like, a, a close associate, um-

   18. SBSteven Bartlett35:03

       Okay, like a friend.

   19. WHWesley Huff35:04

       Yeah. Yeah.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett35:05

       Okay. So a friend, and then was there... Is it just her that says she saw him in-

   21. WHWesley Huff35:10

       There, there was a group of them.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett35:11

       A group of them?

   23. WHWesley Huff35:11

       Yeah, of the women.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett35:12

       Okay. Sep- and they were separate when they saw him? They weren't... They were on their own?

   25. WHWesley Huff35:16

       They were together.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett35:16

       They were together.

   27. WHWesley Huff35:17

       So one of the Gospel only mentions Mary.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett35:19

       Mm-hmm.

   29. WHWesley Huff35:19

       That leaves the Gospel of John. But like I said before, it implies that there are more because she says, "We don't know where they put the body."

   30. SBSteven Bartlett35:27

       Okay.
8. 35:58 – 41:37

   Were the Stories of Jesus Invented?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett35:58

      believe in something supernatural.

   2. WHWesley Huff35:59

      Yeah.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett36:00

      So what's the probability you'd assign to it?

   4. WHWesley Huff36:02

      I d- I-

   5. SBSteven Bartlett36:03

      Like, if it was, like, likely, unlikely, very likely.

   6. WHWesley Huff36:05

      They're all likely because I think that what the Gospel authors are doing is communicating truth, and I don't ultimately see an overabundance of reason why they would write what they wrote other than actually recounting a story of what took place.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett36:25

      I grew up in a place called Plymouth-

   8. WHWesley Huff36:27

      Okay

   9. SBSteven Bartlett36:27

      ... in the UK. I was born in Africa. And in my local park, there was this big poster on the wall about the White Lady. I'll put it up on the screen. It's, like, a big... legend in our city.

   10. WHWesley Huff36:35

       Mm.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett36:35

       It's this park, and everybody says that they see this white lady in the park that was killed, and actually there's a big board explaining her life.

   12. WHWesley Huff36:41

       Mm.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett36:42

       But it's all just accounts of people that say they've seen her.

   14. WHWesley Huff36:45

       Mm-hmm.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett36:45

       You have things like the Loch Ness Monster in Scotland as well, where there's been 1,500 sightings of this big monster in the river. And even up until recent times, 2025, there was a surge of sightings of the Loch Ness Monster called the Black Mass in-

   16. WHWesley Huff36:57

       Mm

   17. SBSteven Bartlett36:58

       ... in, in s- in the bay. Um, and that started in 565 AD. So one of the things that I've always sort of struggled with when I think about humans saying they saw something, is we still today have sightings of UFOs and Loch Ness Monsters and white ladies in parks that become legend. And actually, with the Loch Ness Monster, it's pretty interesting that even today there are sightings all the time of this monster that lives in the river. Now, I think maybe m- me and you both agree that there's no monster in the river.

   18. WHWesley Huff37:27

       Mm.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett37:28

       But there's something going on. There's something in human nature where we do have, like, a proclivity to engage in supernatural sightings. And then once we've heard it once, we then reinforce that we've seen it, too. And even as, like, a young man, I mean, maybe you believe this, but, like, I believed that there was a woman that would stand on the landing of my home. And it would, like, wake me up, and I would run and, and tell my parents that the lady stood on the landing again. There's people watching this that will think there was actually a lady. There probably, maybe there was. But, uh, you know what I'm getting at, is, like-

   20. WHWesley Huff37:57

       I do

   21. SBSteven Bartlett37:57

       ... how do, how can we trust human accounts of these things when clearly humans have an ability to make, make things up that aren't real-

   22. WHWesley Huff38:03

       Sure

   23. SBSteven Bartlett38:03

       ... in some situations?

   24. WHWesley Huff38:04

       Sure. Part of the answer to the question is one of the evidences for Jesus's resurrection is the fact that you and I, Steven, are still talking about it almost 2,000 years later.

   25. SBSteven Bartlett38:14

       My friend said this to me. I was telling you before about my Christian friend.

   26. WHWesley Huff38:16

       Mm-hmm.

   27. SBSteven Bartlett38:16

       He was like, "Why are we still talking about it?" Well, I, we can't prove it.

   28. WHWesley Huff38:19

       Right.

   29. SBSteven Bartlett38:19

       It wasn't, it didn't happen, so we're always gonna talk about it.

   30. WHWesley Huff38:22

       Sure.
9. 41:37 – 1:01:10

   If God Exists, Why Does Suffering Exist?

   1. WHWesley Huff41:37

      "Whatever's going on, the disciples believe something happened."

   2. SBSteven Bartlett41:39

      Yeah, I agree.

   3. WHWesley Huff41:40

      That they saw something.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett41:40

      Of course.

   5. WHWesley Huff41:41

      And so the, I just think that the explanations of the alternatives of that actually happening are insufficient insofar as how they actually explain the data.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett41:52

      Do you have any doubt?

   7. WHWesley Huff41:54

      Oh, of course.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett41:55

      Okay.

   9. WHWesley Huff41:55

      Yeah.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett41:56

       So you have at least even 1% doubt?

   11. WHWesley Huff41:57

       Oh, definitely. And I think especially when there are times of things that are far more existential than historical.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett42:03

       Mm-hmm.

   13. WHWesley Huff42:03

       When times of, like, struggle and pain and suffering, and I look at the world and I look at how messy it is, the children who die young, people who are abused, all of these things. Uh, there are moments where I think, "How, how could there be a good God?" I mean, I'm not immune to doubt. Um, uh, and, and the interesting thing that I find about the Bible is that the Bible is very open to the God of the Bible being open to us coming to him with our doubts.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett42:33

       Mm-hmm.

   15. WHWesley Huff42:34

       Now, one-third of the Book of Psalms, which is, like, right in the middle of the Bible, this kind of poetic literature, if you wanna call it that-Are sometimes referred to as the lament or the complaint Psalms. It's things like Psalm 22, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from me? I like, I cry out by day, and I hear no answer." And I think what's interesting that I find with the Bible is its transparency in saying we're going to struggle. You know, there's this really great story in the Gospel of John. Well, it's, it's, it's in a couple of the instances of the Gospels where John the Baptist, who's like Jesus' cousin and good friend, he's been in prison because he's been speaking out against Herod. He's been being a little bit too verbal politically, and so he gets taken, and he's in prison. And though he's the one that baptized Jesus and said, you know, "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world," when he's in prison, he doubts, and he sends his disciples over to Jesus to ask, "Are you the Messiah? Are you the one we're waiting for, or should we, we be waiting for another?" Now, in that interaction, Jesus actually says, "John the Baptist is the greatest of all men born of women," which is basically everybody, right? [laughs] And yet, in that very same setting, John the Baptist is doubting that Jesus is who He says He is because he's experiencing pain and suffering.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett43:58

       On that point of, um, you seeing, you know, horrific things happening in the world and then having doubts, I think for me, that was one of the persuasive arguments of the, like, New Atheist movement that I-

   17. WHWesley Huff44:08

       Mm

   18. SBSteven Bartlett44:08

       ... became a part of when I was, like, 18 years old, which was, I think Richard Dawkins had said about, you know, if God is all-loving-

   19. WHWesley Huff44:15

       Mm-hmm

   20. SBSteven Bartlett44:15

       ... then why would He let a two-year-old kid in Africa have their eyeball eaten out from the inside by a parasite?

   21. WHWesley Huff44:23

       Yeah.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett44:23

       Like, if, if, if I could intervene with that because, you know, the assertion is that God is omnipotent, all-powerful, and omniscient, all-present.

   23. WHWesley Huff44:30

       Yeah.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett44:30

       If I could intervene with that as a human, I would stop that. And so if God is omni-powerful, omnipotent, sorry, all-powerful, and omnipresent, knows everything, and is everywhere, then why wouldn't He intervene with the baby having its eyeball eaten out from the inside?

   25. WHWesley Huff44:44

       Yeah. It's, it's a good point, and I think if there is an objection that is truly impactful on Christianity on, in the atheist corner, it is the problem of evil and always has been because it's far more of an emotional and a existential question than it is an intellectual question. Now, part of the problem with it is that if we're talking about evil with a capital E, we're implying that there's a good with a capital G. And so I think we do run into an issue when saying that evil exists, we're implying that good exists. And if we're implying that good exists, we're implying that there's a moral law to adhere to, to call the good good and the evil evil. And if there's a moral law, then there has to be a moral law giver. And that's where we come into issues with is this subjective or is this objective?

   26. SBSteven Bartlett45:34

       I think the atheist movement would argue that that moral good-

   27. WHWesley Huff45:38

       Mm-hmm

   28. SBSteven Bartlett45:38

       ... is virtue of what helps me to survive. So, like, watching a small child suffer in such a way, if I didn't feel anything bad about that-

   29. WHWesley Huff45:49

       Yeah

   30. SBSteven Bartlett45:49

       ... then I wouldn't have the wiring for survival because I wouldn't have the proclivity to defend a suffering child. If I don't have that, then I probably don't reproduce, and I don't pass on my genes, and then I'm selected out of existence. So that pain I feel when I see a child suffering is a function of my evolutionary m- mechanics-
10. 1:01:10 – 1:11:24

    Why Evolution Alone May Not Answer the Biggest Questions About Our Origins

    1. WHWesley Huff1:01:10

       why do we have purpose?

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:13

       I've had so many founders speak to me and say, why didn't this particular ad that I ran on this platform work for me? Maybe the copy wasn't good, the creative wasn't strong, but usually the problem is they're not having the right conversation because that ad never reached the right person. And if you're in B2B marketing, that is much of the game. And this is where LinkedIn Ads solves that problem for you. Their targeting is ridiculously specific. You can target by job title, seniority, company size, industry, and even someone's skill set. And their network includes over a billion professionals. About 130 million of them are decision makers. So when you use LinkedIn Ads, you're putting your brand in front of the right people. And LinkedIn Ads also drive the highest B2B return on ad spend across all ad networks in my experience. If you want to give them a try, head over to linkedin.com/diary. And when you spend $250 on your first LinkedIn Ads campaign, you'll get an extra $250 credit from me for the next one. That's linkedin.com/diary. Terms and conditions apply. Every time I've tried to improve something in my life, like my businesses, my health, my relationships, I've noticed that the biggest shifts have come from being better informed. And when it comes to our health, most of us know very, very little. So when our team was approached about partnering with Function Health, it felt very much aligned. Their team has developed a way of giving you a full 360 degree view of your health, many of the things that are going on in your body in the form of different tests. You do one blood draw and it gives you access to over 160 lab results. Hormones, heart health, inflammation, stress, toxins, the whole picture. I use it and so have many of my team members.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:49

       You sign up and you schedule your tests and once you're done, you get a little report like the one I have here. I can see my in range results, my out of range results and there's a little AI function too. So if I have any questions about my out of range results, I can just go in there and ask it any question I want. And these tests are backed by doctors and thousands of hours of research.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:07

       It's $365 for a yearly membership. Go to functionhealth.com/doac and use the code DOAC25 for $25 off your membership. Where do you think we came from? Like, where do you think I came from or my ancestors came from? Do you think they were put on Earth as humans? Do you believe in the Adam and Eve story? Do you think there was some kind of evolution? And when did you think this, when do you think this happened?

    5. WHWesley Huff1:03:31

       So I know that the world is at least 35 years old.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:34

       [laughs]

    7. WHWesley Huff1:03:35

       Uh, I don't think it's an answer that the Bible is actually attempting to address in terms of the age of the Earth.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:42

       Billions of years old?

    9. WHWesley Huff1:03:44

       I don't see any reason not to because I don't think that the creation story in Genesis chapter one is necessarily an attempt to sh- reveal the mechanisms of how God did that exactly.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:55

        'Cause the sort of scientific consensus says that it's roughly 4.5 billion years old, the Earth.

    11. WHWesley Huff1:04:02

        Yeah.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:03

        And microbes and single-celled organisms are estimated to have appeared 3.5 to 4 billion years ago, almost as soon as Earth cooled enough to have liquid water.

    13. WHWesley Huff1:04:11

        Sure. Yeah, and, and I'm, I'm fine with that actually. I don't, I don't think I have to adhere to neo-do- neo-Darwinian evolution in order to actually believe that the world is old. I think I would adhere to an intelligent design thesis, but-

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:26

        And what does that mean?

    15. WHWesley Huff1:04:27

        So essentially that the, the world around us is intelligently designed, not necessarily in that it, it came through processes of evolution. Once again, I'm not a scientist.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:38

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    17. WHWesley Huff1:04:38

        Right? I'm a historian. I, I genuinely do believe that there was a historical Adam and Eve and that those were the first people.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:45

        Okay.

    19. WHWesley Huff1:04:45

        Now what did they look like? I don't know. I think they, they probably lived a long, long time ago and I don't know if the breakdown of Genesis chapter one and the like seven days of creation are actually attempting to articulate seven 24-hour days. They could be.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:02

        Yeah.

    21. WHWesley Huff1:05:02

        I just don't think that's the point.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:04

        But you do believe that humans were put here as humans?

    23. WHWesley Huff1:05:06

        Mm-hmm.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:07

        And do you believe that the other animals were put here in their, in some kind of early form?

    25. WHWesley Huff1:05:11

        Yes.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:12

        And then you also believe in adaptation-

    27. WHWesley Huff1:05:14

        Yes

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:14

        ... of those species? Fine.

    29. WHWesley Huff1:05:15

        Yeah.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:15

        Okay, fine.
11. 1:11:24 – 1:12:58

    Is Heaven the Point of the Bible - Or Is It Something Else Entirely?

    1. WHWesley Huff1:11:24

       a new heaven and a new Earth, and that's the promise of Christianity is that-

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:28

       So, so that's the point.

    3. WHWesley Huff1:11:29

       Yes.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:29

       The point of this life, according to the Bible, is that I get to go to this place called heaven.

    5. WHWesley Huff1:11:34

       No. So it's a, it's a both, and. So when J- when Jesus's disciples ask him how to pray, he says... You know, he gives them the Lord's Prayer. "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in heaven." So it's not just about, you know, I'm gonna die and my spirit's gonna go to somewhere else and, you know, that's the whole goal. It's to bring heaven here as well. What we do matters because you're a human being, you're not a human doing, and so what you do here and who you are here actually has an implication.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:09

       To, to who and what?

    7. WHWesley Huff1:12:10

       To everything. So we're put here to be stewards of creation, of each other, to be examples of image bearers of God. Like, your life has intrinsic meaning.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:26

       Internal meaning, yeah.

    9. WHWesley Huff1:12:27

       Internal meaning, more than just what you can contribute, right? So that would be extrinsic, your ability to give back to society, your ability to, uh, contribute to the advancement of scientific, technological, you know, fill in the gap. You have value that goes beyond that, right? This is why we fight for people everywhere, and that's, I think, why injustice, something like injustice, bothers us so much and why evil bothers us so much.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:57

        Do you know the chimpanzee

12. 1:12:58 – 1:18:31

    Do Animals Have Souls?

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:58

       that has, like, 98% the same DNA as me?

    2. WHWesley Huff1:13:00

       Yeah.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:13:01

       Do they have the same intrinsic meaning? You know, even my dog, I'm like, does my dog have that same intrinsic meaning? And is my dog gonna go to heaven?

    4. WHWesley Huff1:13:09

       I think scripture tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know. There have been individuals throughout church history who have articulated that. I mean, St. Francis of Assisi was big on animals going to heaven. Uh, C.S. Lewis was big on animals going to heaven. Um, in fact, when he wrote The Last Battle, you know, the last series in his Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe books, uh, there are animals in heaven. I mean, if there's a new Earth, I think there are gonna be animals. I don't know if they're gonna be the same animals that existed on this side. But I also... I have no idea. But I think there's something different because I think you have a soul.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:13:44

       And you think my dog doesn't have a soul?

    6. WHWesley Huff1:13:46

       I don't know, but I don't think he has the same kind of spiritual component that you are endowed with in the same way.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:13:54

       How do we know? Like, how do we... How do I know that? You know these chimpanzees, they're pretty smart. I was watching one touch some- a touch screen the other day and solving problems, and I was thinking, is it, is there not, like, an element of, I don't know, human arrogance to think that these other creatures-

    8. WHWesley Huff1:14:07

       No

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:07

       ... like the big, the whales, they're so unbelievably smart, they don't have a soul? They work together in packs. They love. They have kids. They seem to pursue things.

    10. WHWesley Huff1:14:15

        Yeah. I mean, I think that's a testimony to kind of the general reflection of God's good creation. At the same time, we describe when you're just repeating something, we're ki- we, we use adjectives like aping. Uh, we, we understand that there's an aspect of, like, if you train the monkey to push the button, he's gonna push the button. If you, uh, give the elephant the paintbrush and kinda, you know, convince it to paint itself, it's gonna paint itself. But if you, if you can train the elephant to paint the Mona Lisa, is it really going to understand what it's painted in the same way that Michelangelo understands it? Sorry, da Vinci, who painted the Mona Lisa. Now I'm getting myself into trouble.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:57

        [laughs]

    12. WHWesley Huff1:14:58

        Whoever painted the Mona Lisa. Da Vinci. There's something about the value and what is being put in there that is different.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:08

        So do you believe that me and you are born with a particular mission and meaning on this planet, or do you think we have to go and find that particular meaning or mission?

    14. WHWesley Huff1:15:18

        Hmm. That's a great question. Uh, I think, uh, the chief end of man is to know God and glorify him insofar as Jesus is asked, "What is the greatest commandment in the law?" And Jesus uses two examples. He quotes from, you know, two different passages in the Old Testament, and he says, "Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself." I mean, ultimately, I think we always want some sort of a grandiose purpose, and we want the calling of, like, Moses. We wanna go out in the bush, or s- we wanna go out in the desert and find a burning bush and have that calling on our lives. The... I don't think that's wrong, but I think ultimately our purpose is to live a faithful life to who we were created to be in being image-bearers of God and being faithful in loving God with everything that we have. So that, like, the Jewish phraseology of loving God with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength, it's kind of a stand-in for your entire being. Y- with everything you have, love God with that by what you do, by what you say, by how you live. Like, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, right? That's the golden rule. But if you look at other religions, it's almost always framed in the negative. Don't do unto others what you don't want done to you. So there's a difference between not punching someone in the face and building someone a hospital.

    15. SBSteven Bartlett1:16:55

        So the meaning of our lives is to love our creator at the most fundamental level?

    16. WHWesley Huff1:17:00

        At the basic level, and to understand how that expresses in everyday life. So Martin Luther, the German Protestant reformer, he said the, the faithful Christian, um, shoemaker doesn't glorify God by sewing little crosses into the shoes, but by making really good quality shoes. And so there's an aspect of God has endowed us, right? We're created in God's image. We create as an aspect of an outpouring of that which we are created to be, and we, we do that well. You know, the proverb says, "Whatever your hand, um, finds to do, do it with all its might." And the idea is, you know, y- you have the capability to do incredible things, and the reason why you have that capability is because you bear the image of a creator who, like I said before, lives in a set of living, loving relationships. And so that God actually didn't need to create you, me, anything, right? So God is not better off or worse off if we love him or worship him or believe in him. He, He really isn't. He has existed in s- in love, in relationship, and yet the story of the Bible is that God chooses to create out of an outpouring of his love, knowing even that we are going to rebel against him. We are going to sin, right, do wrong against h- h- how He

13. 1:18:31 – 1:38:55

    If You Sin, Are You Automatically Going to Hell?

    1. WHWesley Huff1:18:31

       has actually created us to be, and still desires to have that relationship.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:35

       And if we do sin-

    3. WHWesley Huff1:18:37

       Mm-hmm

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:38

       ... if I sin in my life, do I go to hell?

    5. WHWesley Huff1:18:41

       You, you don't s... I mean, the answer to that is yes and no, but the-

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:48

       Am I going to hell?

    7. WHWesley Huff1:18:49

       Are you going to hell?

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:50

       [laughs]

    9. WHWesley Huff1:18:50

       Steven Bartlett. Is Steven Bartlett going to hell? This is the clip that they're gonna put online, right?

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:54

        [laughs]

    11. WHWesley Huff1:18:54

        "West says Steven Bartlett is going to hell." I mean, here's the thing. Everybody is going to hell. Everybody. Here's how I've said it in the past, right? The Bible is very clear. All good people go to heaven.But Jesus said, "No one is good but God alone." So if all good people go to heaven and no one is good but God alone, only God is in heaven.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:19:16

        So do you believe that there is a, a hell and a heaven as we sort of typically understand it, a place that is great to go to after we die and a place that is very hot?

    13. WHWesley Huff1:19:26

        [chuckles] A place that is very hot.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:19:28

        [laughs]

    15. WHWesley Huff1:19:28

        I mean, there's a lot of imagery of, um, like, fire and weeping and gnashing of teeth. I think a lot of that, uh, is kind of reflective and allegorical more than it's, like, a, a physical, tangible thing. That is, you know, most of our perceptions of hell are largely shaped by depictions in the Middle Ages of Dante's Inferno and that kind of thing, right? I think it's more so that you will experience the full weight of the separation from God's goodness. Not necessarily a separation from God, 'cause I think God's punishment and his wrath are going to be felt there. But if we're talking about, like, a good place, bad place, f- in the very simplest of terms, yes, but heaven isn't full of good people. Heaven is full of people who understand they are not good enough. And so I mentioned that, like, justice, mercy thing. Justice is fulfilled on Jesus. So because justice is fulfilled, now mercy, which is not getting what we do deserve, is able to be given to those who put their trust in Jesus.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:20:36

        So if I don't believe in Jesus-

    17. WHWesley Huff1:20:38

        Yeah

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:20:38

        ... and I don't believe in the Bible-

    19. WHWesley Huff1:20:40

        Mm-hmm

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:20:40

        ... but I live a good life, I'm nice to people, I'm charitable, try and be kind wherever I can be-

    21. WHWesley Huff1:20:47

        Yeah

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:20:47

        ... and I don't believe in God, am I going to hell or heaven as it relates to the scriptures?

    23. WHWesley Huff1:20:52

        Well, I don't think... If you're living your life rejecting God, God is not gonna force you into his presence.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:21:00

        So y- I'm not gonna go into heav- I'm not gonna go to heaven, then?

    25. WHWesley Huff1:21:03

        No.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:21:04

        Where am I gonna go?

    27. WHWesley Huff1:21:05

        Well, you would, you would go to hell.

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:21:07

        So, so if I don't believe in the Bible and Jesus and God, then I'm going to go to hell?

    29. WHWesley Huff1:21:13

        Yes, insofar as if heaven is a place for those who have submitted their lives to Jesus, who are living the identity of what they're created to be, and said, "Your will be done, God"-

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:21:26

        Yeah
14. 1:38:55 – 1:41:12

    Does Your Religion Depend on Where You Were Born?

    1. WHWesley Huff1:38:55

       don't think that there's a conflict of interest there. But I want to follow what's true because even if it's a convenient lie, it's still a lie. And I don't want to live my life for a lie.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:39:09

       New Year always has a strange energy to it because people start talking about their goals, fresh starts, new habits. But the reality is that most people carry the same ideas they had last year into the new year. I'm guilty of that too. And they still don't end up doing anything with them. And I get why. Starting something new, especially if it's a business or a project, is overwhelming. Before you start, you're looking for the perfect moment and to be the perfect version of yourself. When really what matters most is taking that first step. If you've had an idea for a while, a product, a store, something you've been sitting on, our sponsor Shopify makes it easy to get started because you can build your store, sell on socials, take payments, use AI tools, and manage everything all in one place. So if 2026 is the year you finally back yourself, go to shopify.co.uk slash Bartlett and start selling. And you can sign up for a $1 per month trial right now too. Just go to shopify.co.uk slash Bartlett. I promise you, you don't need to have it all figured out. You just need to start. This is something that I've made for you. I've realized that the Diary Of A CEO audience are strivers, whether it's in business or health. We all have big goals that we want to accomplish. And one of the things I've learned is that when you aim at the big, big, big goal, it can feel incredibly psychologically uncomfortable because it's kind of like being stood at the foot of Mount Everest and looking upwards. The way to accomplish your goals is by breaking them down into tiny, small steps. And we call this in our team the 1%. And actually, this philosophy is highly responsible for much of our success here. So what we've done so that you at home can accomplish any big goal that you have is we've made these 1% diaries. And we released these last year and they all sold out. So I asked my team over and over again to bring the diaries back, but also to introduce some new colors and to make some minor tweaks to the diary. So now we have a better range for you. So if you have a big goal in mind and you need a framework and a process and some motivation, then I highly recommend you get one of these diaries before they all sell out

15. 1:41:12 – 1:44:26

    Does Prayer Actually Work?

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:41:12

       once again. And you can get yours at thediary.com. And if you want the link, the link is in the description below. On that point, one of the things that really convinced me when I was going through my little atheism phase was this geography argument, which I'm sure you've heard a million times. If I'd been born in Saudi Arabia, I'd probably be a Muslim. If I'd been born in India, I'd probably be Hindu. So it seems like the religion you believe entirely depends on where you were born, not on necessarily what is true. And therefore, if we go back to this point about hell, I remember thinking at like 19 years old, oh my God, like actually where you're born is determining whether you go to this fiery eternal suffering or not. And that's not fair. So this must all be not true.

    2. WHWesley Huff1:41:53

       Yeah. I mean, I was born in Pakistan. So I was born in a majority Muslim country and I'm not a Muslim. And you could argue my parents weren't Muslims, but I know tons of people who were. My colleague, Steve, who is our Alberta director at Apologetics Canada, he was born in Korea and went to a school setting that was Buddhist.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:42:12

       But I mean, the numbers are the numbers. Like you're like 95%. I don't know what the numbers are, but I know it's over 90% likely to be the religion of that territory if you take on a religion at all just by where you were born. And that doesn't fit. I remember thinking very clearly at 19 years old, this doesn't feel fair.

    4. WHWesley Huff1:42:26

       Sure.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:42:27

       As a way to determine who gets into hell or heaven, which is like my parents and where they conceived me or whatever.

    6. WHWesley Huff1:42:32

       Sure. I mean, in one sense, you don't want fair because fair is you going to hell. And the gospel message is not fair, right? So the actual gospel message is not about fairness because fairness is I get the just penalty for what I do, right? And that's where the whole concept of mercy and grace are so, they're so central to the Christian message is Buddhism and Hinduism are based on fairness, solely based on fairness, right? The cycle of samsara, of life, death, birth, and rebirth, the karmic cycles, that's fair. In one sense, what God does when he intervenes in humanity, when he incarnates, becomes flesh, steps into humanity, and actually experiences pain and hurt and suffering and death in a way that makes the God of the Bible unique and actually experiential to what you and I go through when we have those struggles and doubts. He thentakes on the punishment that we deserve, and the fairness is not actually what is then given. Because the fairness is Wes Huff getting what he actually deserves for the weight and the penalty of his cosmic rebellion in choosing a life that is, is against and away from God.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:44:00

       I'm unclear.

    8. WHWesley Huff1:44:01

       Okay.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:44:01

       So if I was, if I had Moroccan parents-

    10. WHWesley Huff1:44:03

        Mm-hmm

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:44:03

        ... my probability of being Muslim is, like, 99%.

    12. WHWesley Huff1:44:05

        Sure.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett1:44:06

        Um, and if I was born in Morocco, that would, that would kinda set me up to go to hell, theoretically.

    14. WHWesley Huff1:44:11

        Yes, insofar as you're either, you're taking on your sin-

    15. SBSteven Bartlett1:44:17

        Yeah

    16. WHWesley Huff1:44:17

        ... and that's the punishment, or Christ is taking on your sin, and then you are then covered

16. 1:44:26 – 1:52:31

    Religion vs. A.I. - Could Technology Challenge Faith?

    1. WHWesley Huff1:44:26

       in His intercession.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:44:29

       Okay.

    3. WHWesley Huff1:44:29

       But it's not about believing or not believing.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:44:32

       Yeah, which you explained earlier.

    5. WHWesley Huff1:44:33

       Yeah.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:44:34

       Which was, which was-

    7. WHWesley Huff1:44:34

       Yeah

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:44:34

       ... useful for me 'cause that, that, that gave me a new understanding that I didn't have previously. Um, the other thing I think a lot about, or I thought a lot about, was prayer. So this was really-

    9. WHWesley Huff1:44:42

       Mm

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:44:42

        ... compelling to me when I was younger, which was, you know, I would, I would hear these stories of horrific things that had happened in the world.

    11. WHWesley Huff1:44:48

        Mm.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:44:49

        Or if you think about what happened in Nazi Germany. And I'd hear that the people there were, you know, very religious and praying, and it didn't seem to change the odds of their fate.

    13. WHWesley Huff1:44:56

        Mm.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:44:56

        And when you look at hospital stats of Christians versus non-Christians, generally, praying doesn't seem-

    15. WHWesley Huff1:45:02

        Yeah

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:45:02

        ... to be impacting outcome.

    17. WHWesley Huff1:45:03

        Huh.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:45:04

        So therefore, I concluded as, like, a 19-year-old that maybe prayer doesn't work, and why are people doing it when it doesn't seem to historically have worked? What is the... What is your perspective? Does praying work? If, if my child is sick and I start praying, is, is that gonna help?

    19. WHWesley Huff1:45:20

        I mean, it also kind of begs the question of what we think prayer is. Is prayer incantations-

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:45:29

        What does that mean?

    21. WHWesley Huff1:45:29

        ... to placate God?

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:45:31

        What does that mean?

    23. WHWesley Huff1:45:31

        Like, is God a genie, right? So I say the right prayers and, uh, He gives me what I, what I want.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:45:37

        Yeah.

    25. WHWesley Huff1:45:37

        Um, now there are some religious systems that that is kind of what prayer is, is, is, you know... That's all the agricultural deities of the ancient Near East. Like, you, you say the right things and you give the right sacrifices and the, the, the hope is that, you know, the gods would accept that and then they then, y- you know, in the reciprocal nature of that, they give you good crops. I think prayer in Christianity is a give and take in that it's a relational thing. It's God desiring to have communication with you. If you read the Psalms, a lot of which are prayers, uh, even, you know, I mentioned the lament psalms. Like, it's David or whoever, the psalmist, coming to God and saying, "I don't get it. I'm hurting. I'm broken. I'm alone. I don't feel you." There's an aspect of the relational component of prayer. Now, prayer is not just that, right? Prayer is, you know, asking, is, is supplications, is, is committing your desires to God because you believe that God can actually work in the universe and do things.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:46:42

        And that's kind of what the Bible, the Bible says. It says, "Pour out your hearts to Him. Call Him and, and come to me and I will answer you," in-

    27. WHWesley Huff1:46:48

        Mm-hmm

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:46:48

        ... in Jeremiah.

    29. WHWesley Huff1:46:49

        Mm-hmm.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:46:50

        And it also says, "Ask and it will be given to you," in Matthew.
17. 1:52:31 – 1:59:30

    Why Young People Around the World Are Facing a Crisis of Meaning

    1. WHWesley Huff1:52:31

       creation of something new and amazing and advancing in our understanding and knowledge.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:52:38

       This is... It kind of sets people up for this whole simulation theory argument where they say that if you imagine any rate of improvement on our current reality-

    3. WHWesley Huff1:52:48

       Hmm

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:52:48

       ... people are already making virtual reality worlds. If you... You can go on so many different programs now and type in, "I wanna go to, uh, the top of Mount Everest," and there's a village there. And then you can experience that in three dimensions. You can put on a headset and go to the top of Mount Everest, and there's this rendered village there.

    5. WHWesley Huff1:53:03

       Hmm.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:53:04

       If you imagine any rate of improvement, even 1% a year in this technology, eventually, whether it's in 500 years or 10,000 years, you get to a point where it's almost indistinguishable from this experience that me and you are having today in the real world.

    7. WHWesley Huff1:53:19

       Hmm.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:53:20

       And so the simulation theory posits that... Again, you just think about how long technology's been here. It's, like, 50 years ago, we didn't have computers like this. We didn't even have, like, the iPhone or phones. That's just 50 years.

    9. WHWesley Huff1:53:29

       Yeah.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:53:30

        Imagine billions of years and a rate of improvement. You get to something indistinguishable from this. And it's conceivable that me and you with computers-

    11. WHWesley Huff1:53:37

        Mm-hmm

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:53:37

        ... will run simulations. We'll make things like The Sims and video games and GTA VI, although that's taking forever. And with an improvement of technology at any rate, those worlds will feel real theoretically to the characters within them.

    13. WHWesley Huff1:53:50

        Hmm.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:53:51

        So simulation theory posits that actually this is what our lives are.

    15. WHWesley Huff1:53:55

        Hmm.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:53:55

        There was an, a civilization at some point in the cosmic universe that got to that point of technological sophistication. They ran a bunch of different simulations on a computer or whatever their technology was, and this is one such world we're living in right now.

    17. WHWesley Huff1:54:09

        Hmm.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:54:09

        And that is actually our God. It could be some four-year-old alien that had a laptop-

    19. WHWesley Huff1:54:14

        Right

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:54:14

        ... uh, 10 gazillion years ago, and the Big Bang was the day that he started the simulation.

    21. WHWesley Huff1:54:20

        Yeah. Almost like it was intelligently designed, right?

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:54:23

        Yeah. Like, actually, this is like... This is... I, I think there probably is some kind of God. I just don't know what, what it is. [laughs]

    23. WHWesley Huff1:54:32

        Sure.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:54:32

        So I don't know whether it's the one in, in the book that you have in front of me here, whether it's the one that they believe in the Muslim religion, or whether it's, like, a four-year-old kid on his laptop that was messing around in a technologically sophisticated universe 10 billion years ago.

    25. WHWesley Huff1:54:45

        Right.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:54:46

        But I think there's something bigger than I am.

    27. WHWesley Huff1:54:49

        Right. And I think, you know, uh, the, the simulation theory I don't think really solves the issue because it just kinda punts the can down the road in that it still avoids the question of what, what is that? How did we get here? And what is the ultimate explanation for everything? So probabilistically is, in the world around us, in what we see with, like, our relational characteristics and everything, is it possible that we live in a simulation? I think it... Yes, it is. I think probabilistically, though, with how the description of creation and the human condition and what we see within history, I think personally the God of the Bible is the most reasonable explanation, especially when we're comparing it to other religious worldviews. I think the simulation theory is an interesting one, or, you know, the string theory, multiple universes. I just think that those are almost like we're walking around the question. We're circling around the question, and it's not actually answering-We still need a God

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:55:53

        Yeah. And then, you know, even in the example I gave of the four-year-old messing around on his laptop 10 billion years ago in a technologically advanced civilization, I then... My brain a few seconds later asked, "Well, what was the point of his life?"

    29. WHWesley Huff1:56:05

        Yeah. And who created him?

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:56:08

        And I could say the same about God, I guess, like the God of the Christian Bible. Like, who cr- why... Who is this God? Like, who created this God? Did someone create this God, or is this just, has he always been there?
18. 1:59:30 – 2:05:41

    A Message for Anyone Feeling Lost or Without Purpose

    1. WHWesley Huff1:59:30

       strength, that properly kind of fulfills what I think we mean when we say God is love.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:59:37

       There is a, a deep crisis of meaning in the world, especially in, you know, the Western world. Three in five American adults between 18 and 25 years old said that their life lacked meaning and purpose, with 50% of the same group saying their poor mental health was linked to not knowing what to do with my life.

    3. WHWesley Huff1:59:55

       Hmm.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:59:56

       And a lack of purpose is significantly s- associated with many of the mental health and illnesses like depression and anxiety. And as of April 2025, the overall prevalence of depression in US teenagers and adults has increased by 60% over the last decade, according to the C- CDC. And tragically-

    5. WHWesley Huff2:00:12

       Hmm

    6. SBSteven Bartlett2:00:12

       ... globally, more than almost a million people die due to suicide every year, and it's the third leading cause of death among 15 to 29-year-olds, according to the World Health Organization. What are we getting wrong?

    7. WHWesley Huff2:00:26

       I think we're looking for our purpose and our meaning in things that are ultimately not going to give the value that those things actually require. So it's not a matter of if we worship, it's a matter of what we worship. And worship, if worship is, you know, giving our all to something, I think there's a lot of things within society that are going to tell us that our identity is gonna be fulfilled in money, or it's gonna be fulfilled in relationships or accolades or... All of these aspects are ultimately gonna fall short in giving us actual purpose and meaning, and if they're not grounded in actually giving us value, right? Y- your friend is a, as far as I understand, is a good example of that, right? You know, we can achieve all of these things. You hear athletes and actors and famous people talk about all the wealth, all the, like, celebrity status they could possibly desire, end up being completely empty, being completely fulfilled-less. And I think that's because we're, we're chasing after things that aren't going to give us what we actually need, right? They're facsimiles and cheap reproductions of what actually can give, give us meaning and purpose, and that's because we are created to be in relationship with our God.And that is where we will find our true identity. That's what's gonna give us the motivation to actually get up in the morning, like your friend, you saying, you know, he couldn't get up in the morning. He, he finds not just a motivational value in the Christian faith, he finds actually meaning and purpose in the Christian faith, that getting up in the morning has a purpose that goes beyond the here and the now, and that can affect all of the people around him. And now he can pursue his entrepreneurial activities or his relationships or even his finances for the glory of God, and then that gives it an ontological meaning that goes beyond the simple basics of kind of what secular materialism has to offer.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett2:02:47

       Young men in particular are struggling in their own unique ways.

    9. WHWesley Huff2:02:50

       Mm.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett2:02:50

        And is, is that in part, in your view, because they are worshiping the w- wrong role models in life?

    11. WHWesley Huff2:02:56

        I think it could be. I think men often find- we find our identity in the things that we do, right? The, the... Well, we, we hear about this in that unfortunately we've bought the lie that we are the sum of our actions. This is why when people lose their jobs, right, w- when they get let go of their careers, they have identity crisises. Because if we believe that we are the sum of our actions, we can put a lot of stock in something that is ultimately going to lead us, like, empty. Um, same thing with relationships, right? You watch any rom-com. What is it almost always about? Lonely guy, lonely girl, they meet each other, they fall in love. At the end, everything works out, and now, now their identity is fulfilled. Well, I mean, all you have to do is to get married to know that that's not going to fulfill every desire and need you have [chuckles] , right? I love my wife. I love my marriage. It's one of the best things that I've ever done. But if I put all of my eggs in that basket, it, it's, it could very well, and almost certainly will lead me astray, especially if that falls apart, especially when there are times of hardship and struggle. So I think you are more than the sum of your actions because you have value that goes beyond that, and it's actually living out that value that can give you the meaning and the purpose that you're finding. But men in particular, we find value in what we do. I think women, although I don't wanna speak, you know, too broadly, I think, speaking in generalities, women find a lot of identity in relational values, in the relationships that they have with their friends or their significant others. Men often find value in, like, what they're able to contribute to physically. And so especially in a world where, you know, economic crisis is a thing or work complications with, with things like technology removing a lot of occupations, I th- I think that can be a gen- genuine hardship.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett2:05:04

        Yeah, I was just looking at the, some research on PubMed, and it says exactly that. It says, "In a recent qualitative analysis in the United States of suicide notes-

    13. WHWesley Huff2:05:12

        Mm

    14. SBSteven Bartlett2:05:12

        ... m- majority male sample, the authors identified themes that differed by gender-

    15. WHWesley Huff2:05:17

        Yeah

    16. SBSteven Bartlett2:05:17

        ... such as men more often referring to financial hardship, et cetera, which can imply feelings of failure and worthlessness tied to traditional roles. In contrast, women's notes were more about lowered self-worth and in- interpersonal relationships."

    17. WHWesley Huff2:05:30

        Mm-hmm.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett2:05:31

        So if that does hold, and, and we're implying there that s- sometimes it's to do with a feeling of worthlessness-

    19. WHWesley Huff2:05:38

        Mm-hmm

    20. SBSteven Bartlett2:05:38

        ... for men, are you saying that

19. 2:05:41 – 2:07:01

    Why Questioning Christianity Has Changed in the Last Decade

    1. SBSteven Bartlett2:05:41

       Christianity can provide something that is an antidote to that feeling?

    2. WHWesley Huff2:05:45

       I think not only can it provide an antidote, it can provide the antidote.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett2:05:49

       What would you say to anyone that's listening right now that feels a little bit lost in their life?

    4. WHWesley Huff2:05:53

       I would say that you have purpose and you have meaning more than what society tells you is going to give you that meaning and purpose, and that there's a God who loves you, and he loves you so much that he stepped out of eternity and into humanity, and he lived the perfect life that you couldn't in order to establish and create the union of the relationship with God that you're actually seeking.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett2:06:25

       And what would you s- tell them step one would be to go in that direction?

    6. WHWesley Huff2:06:29

       Well, I would say, you know, push into something like read the Bible. I would say open the Gospel of Matthew, open the Gospel of John, and, and start reading, and find out who this Jesus guy is. You know, investigate that question, why that is significant, why that matters, because the person and character of Jesus goes beyond simply an historical character. I think Jesus was a genuine historical character.

20. 2:07:01 – 2:12:18

    How A.I. Could Transform the Future of Religion

    1. WHWesley Huff2:07:01

       He's no less than that, but he's also so much more than that. And in discovering who he is in relation to who you are, that's gonna change your life.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett2:07:09

       Are you noticing that people are asking you certain questions about Christianity or religion or any of the adjacent subjects more now than they were 10 years ago? Like, are there certain themes or topics that are more front of mind for people these days?

    3. WHWesley Huff2:07:24

       Yeah, I think we've, we've gone through a shift where when I kinda started in this endeavor of what I'm doing now, this kind of crescendoed in the last, uh, year and a bit. Um, when I started out, I think people were asking a lot more, "Is God real?" and, "Is this true?" And I think now people are asking, "Is God good?" And I think it's because it's part and parcel to this meaning crisis thing. I also think that there have been some major moral issues. I mean, the whole Epstein thing right now I think is a testament to that. We are seeing examples of true evil, and I think that bothers people. And in a world where we can rationalize subjectivizing evil, we understand that is heinousAnd if that is evil with a capital E, where's the g- the good with a capital G? You know, C.S. Lewis, who I've quoted a few times, he said, uh, in his, um, The Problem of Pain and Suffering, in that book that he wrote, that, uh, one of his objections to God was that there was, uh, there was so much evil and chaos in this world. And he said, "But what was I comparing that to?" A man does not call a line crooked unless he knows what a straight line looks like, right? The reason you understand that there's rot is because you understand what something that's healthy is. And so there's an objective standard that needs to be weighed by these things. And I think more than ever, we're seeing things that really speak to the justice questions in terms of the meaning questions, and that has really interested me as someone who is a... I'm a historian, right? So I'm interested in the questions about... I do things like read Greek and Coptic most of the time, right? But I've been challenged to think more about the philosophical questions because I think we live in an age where I'm really encouraged by the people looking at injustice. There's a lump in our throat, and I think there's a lump in our throat because Jesus put it there.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett2:09:27

       I think, um, AI is gonna have a big impact on your work.

    5. WHWesley Huff2:09:30

       Yeah?

    6. SBSteven Bartlett2:09:30

       And in ways that might not be super obvious. I think one of the ways-

    7. WHWesley Huff2:09:33

       Mm-hmm

    8. SBSteven Bartlett2:09:33

       ... is that if all these CEOs are true when they say that AI's gonna cause massive job displacement-

    9. WHWesley Huff2:09:40

       Mm-hmm

    10. SBSteven Bartlett2:09:40

        ... and even the CEOs that are building the technology have sat here and told me that there's gonna be massive job displa- displacement, there's gonna be a crisis of meaning. People get huge amount of work from the things that they do in their lives, and they're not gonna be able to do those things in the same way necessarily. And about 60% of Americans say they're, they're worried that AI will take away the thing that gives them their meaning. Well, I think we're just at the footsteps of the mean- crisis of meaning in this regard.

    11. WHWesley Huff2:10:05

        Yeah.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett2:10:05

        And that's gonna mean that a lot of people, you know, are gonna struggle a lot, and that concerns me.

    13. WHWesley Huff2:10:11

        I mean, I think that's what I'm more worried about with AI. I'm not worried about AI taking over the world. I, I'm not worried about, you know, um, AI replacing us or something like that. Uh, uh, if I'm worried about AI, it's that. It's the, the pain and suffering that it can cause for people who have bought into the lie that the sum of their identity is in what they can contribute and do, and how the Christian worldview speaks into that. How can I think Christianly about a society where there could very well be mass identity crises because of unemployment? Or because, you know, the, the... Years ago we were telling truck drivers, "Learn to code."

    14. SBSteven Bartlett2:10:52

        [laughs]

    15. WHWesley Huff2:10:53

        Well, now coders are being replaced by AI systems, right? The AI can code better than the coders. So-

    16. SBSteven Bartlett2:10:59

        Spotify said yesterday they, none, none of their engineers have written a line of code since December. And I thought, "Wow, fucking hell, like, that's-"

    17. WHWesley Huff2:11:05

        Yeah.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett2:11:05

        And my car drives itself here in, uh, in America. You... I sat here with the other day with the CEO of Uber and he said to me they have nine million drivers' careers, and within X number of years they will have none.

    19. WHWesley Huff2:11:20

        Hmm.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett2:11:20

        He said the unique thing is the, the speed of the d- the change-

    21. WHWesley Huff2:11:24

        Hmm

    22. SBSteven Bartlett2:11:24

        ... is gonna cause the problems. Because we had the Industrial Revolution, we had time to tr- you know, transfer to other lines of employment, et cetera. But the speed in which there's gonna be a displacement is, um, is gonna cause the issues. And I wonder what's gonna happen. I mean, a lot of people are, you know, they're gonna be in search of meaning, and I guess that'll, that'll, will push some people towards Christianity and other religions, but not everybody. 'Cause you said, you know, as you say, when our identities are pulled away from us in such a way, some people turn to the bottle.

    23. WHWesley Huff2:11:52

        Right.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett2:11:52

        Or, um, you know, it causes mental health situations, so. Hmm.

    25. WHWesley Huff2:11:56

        I mean, humanity has a very unique knack to pivot-

    26. SBSteven Bartlett2:12:01

        Mm-hmm

    27. WHWesley Huff2:12:02

        ... and figure things out. Now, is there going to be, uh, you know, a, a lu period in between when that job crisis happens? Maybe. But, uh, I think, I think humanity

21. 2:12:18 – 2:16:36

    From Paralyzed Child to Apologist

    1. WHWesley Huff2:12:18

       will figure things out. I just, I just don't know if that will be before all of, you know, it hits the fan.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett2:12:26

       What was the first domino that fell for you that made you go on this, this journey of becoming an... Is it the term Christian apologist?

    3. WHWesley Huff2:12:35

       Yeah.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett2:12:36

       Becoming a... What does that even mean, Christian apologist?

    5. WHWesley Huff2:12:38

       So I mentioned 1 Peter 3:15, right? "But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer." So that is that apologia. So we take the Greek word apologia, and we stick an English suffix on the end, and we have this field of study, this discipline, apologetics. Right.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett2:12:53

       What does that mean? You're, you're explaining the Bible.

    7. WHWesley Huff2:12:55

       Giving reasons. Yeah.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett2:12:56

       Okay.

    9. WHWesley Huff2:12:56

       Giving answers. So apologetics is as complicated as, uh, arguments philosophically and scientifically for the existence of God and the historical reliability of the Bible, and as simple as if someone asks me why Jesus, that's an apologetic question insofar as it's giving an answer.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett2:13:13

        I was looking at some of these photos of you as a young man. I wondered how much the situation in these photos had an impact on who you came to be and what you came to believe. I'll put these photos on the screen for anybody.

    11. WHWesley Huff2:13:27

        Yeah.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett2:13:27

        But, um, this is a, a young boy in a wheelchair-

    13. WHWesley Huff2:13:31

        Yep

    14. SBSteven Bartlett2:13:31

        ... and in a hospital bed that looks to be paralyzed.

    15. WHWesley Huff2:13:34

        Yep. Yep. When I was 11 years old, I was diagnosed with a rare neurological condition that left me paralyzed from the waist down.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett2:13:43

        So you, at 10 you were fine, you were normal.

    17. WHWesley Huff2:13:45

        Yeah.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett2:13:45

        And at 11, suddenly you were paralyzed from the waist down.

    19. WHWesley Huff2:13:47

        Yes. So I had the flu, and my body's immune system, instead of attacking the flu, attacked the nerve endings at the base of my spinal cord, so the myelin sheath, and caused inflammation, cutting off the communication from my brain to my legs.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett2:13:58

        And a lot of people that get that disease never walk again.

    21. WHWesley Huff2:14:02

        It's complicated. Uh, so the, so it's called acute transverse myelitis, although I've been told recently that there, there's a change in the name of the diagnosis. But-Essentially transverse myelitis is not all that rare, but acute, that acute in, in terms of the like quickness of it. I had fallen asleep, a nap, for probably no more than 30 minutes, and when I woke up I was paralyzed. So it was the, the quickness of the actual damage that was done to my spinal cord that was the catalyst for in the diagnosis saying that the chances of me walking again were, were very low.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett2:14:42

        But within a month you were walking again?

    23. WHWesley Huff2:14:44

        Yeah. One month to the day. So, in fact the anniversary, 23-year anniversary was recently 'cause it was in February 8th. Um, I woke up on a Saturday morning, got out of bed, and walked over to my wheelchair.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett2:14:56

        Did this change your perspective on God, Christianity, religion?

    25. WHWesley Huff2:15:00

        It did in some ways. I mean, I don't, I don't know how it couldn't. Uh, it definitely, to have medical professionals tell me, "You're probably gonna be a paraplegic for the rest of your life. Like, this is what you need to kind of accept and, and get used to," to the exact same medical professionals, you know, the, um, pediatric neurologists saying, "We don't know why you're walking," that had to have an impact on me in that I think I, I truly believe I was healed in that it was the doctors who used the word miracle because they said that they, they couldn't medically explain why there was no more damage on my spinal cord, why I was walking with, like, not even any, like, atrophy or anything. However, I still needed to figure some of the more intellectual questions out in my head when I was a teenager. So it wasn't just that this happened and explained a lot, because I was open to the possibility of this being a fluke, of there being a completely randomness to this.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett2:16:06

        Mm-hmm.

    27. WHWesley Huff2:16:07

        And so when I was a teenager I investigated a lot, you know, to the best of my ability as a 17-year-old, in trying to answer some of the more meaning questions about I know what my parents raised me to believe, but if I believe it simply because they told me to, it's not the worst reason, but it's also not the best reason. So that's, is the first time that I, uh, read the Quran cover to cover. I was looking into things like the Book of Mormon and the Bhagavad Gita. I was just curious. That's when, you

22. 2:16:36 – 2:26:53

    The Supernatural - Can People Really Speak to the Dead?

    1. WHWesley Huff2:16:36

       know, reading Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett. Not in any type of crisis, faith crisis way, but I was, I was investigating.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett2:16:45

       So you believe in the supernatural?

    3. WHWesley Huff2:16:46

       Mm-hmm.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett2:16:47

       Do you believe that we can speak to the dead?

    5. WHWesley Huff2:16:49

       No.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett2:16:50

       You don't believe that?

    7. WHWesley Huff2:16:51

       No.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett2:16:51

       So when people-

    9. WHWesley Huff2:16:52

       Well, I should, I should preface that. It depends what you mean by speaking to the dead. I think it's, I think it's possible. We have examples of it in the Bible. Um, Saul gets a medium to call up the spirit of Samuel.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett2:17:08

        So do you believe mediums are telling the truth when they say that they're contacting people in the afterlife?

    11. WHWesley Huff2:17:12

        I think that there's a possibility of engaging the supernatural world, which is dangerous, and I think there's a very fuzzy line between mediums who are con artists and people who are act- actually engaged in something that is dabbling in the supernatural.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett2:17:31

        I say this in part because I, I've, I've heard people say that, you know, their partner's passed away and then they've seen signs, their partner has left them signs.

    13. WHWesley Huff2:17:40

        Hmm.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett2:17:41

        Do, do you believe in this kind of thing?

    15. WHWesley Huff2:17:43

        I don't think so. Not in those ways. I, I think when people are dead, they're dead. Um, but I think there are aspects of the supernatural world and a world that's going on behind the scenes that's articulated within scripture that have an impact on this world in a way that if people can be distracted and misled to think that they are contacting dead relatives, then that is otherwise going to, uh, prevent them from pursuing what they should be as image bearers of God.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett2:18:17

        So you think it's demonic in some, some capacity?

    17. WHWesley Huff2:18:19

        I think it can be. I don't think it's always.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett2:18:21

        Hmm.

    19. WHWesley Huff2:18:21

        I think in emotionally vulnerable states we are willing to adhere to all sorts of things.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett2:18:28

        Mm-hmm.

    21. WHWesley Huff2:18:29

        And there's a, um, there's a sensitivity that I want to communicate around that.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett2:18:35

        Mm-hmm.

    23. WHWesley Huff2:18:35

        Because I think people, especially in the, uh, in the periods of the deaths of loved ones often want to look for validation in their passed away loved ones leaving something or communicating or-

    24. SBSteven Bartlett2:18:52

        And also that we want to believe when we lose people we love that they are somewhere better, that they are in a good place, and this is one of the, the things that I struggled with earlier when we were talking about hell, which is-

    25. WHWesley Huff2:19:02

        Hmm

    26. SBSteven Bartlett2:19:02

        ... if such a small percentage of people are making it to hell by whatever measure of acceptance one believes, then that would mean that, like, my grandmother, who wasn't necessarily a devout religious person or a Christian or sh- hadn't repented, is currently in hell, and that's a hard thought to take that she is in such a awful place now.

    27. WHWesley Huff2:19:25

        Yeah.

    28. SBSteven Bartlett2:19:25

        And this w- this, this would obviously make people not want to experience that dissonance and therefore reject religion and say, "Well, no, my gra-... Like if I accept the Bible, then I have to accept my grandmother's currently burning in hell."

    29. WHWesley Huff2:19:36

        Right.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett2:19:37

        "And so I'm gonna reject the Bible. It's much easier than accepting that my grandmother's suffering right now."

Episode duration: 2:26:53