Patrice Evra: Learning How To Cry Saved My Life!

1. 0:00 – 4:00

   Intro

   1. PEPatrice Evra0:00

      For me, playing was (smacks lips) ... it was just a dream. It's Patrice Evra. (crowd cheers) Growing up, it's a family, 24 brothers and sister, one breast chicken was for three days. Growing up in the street, you need to survive. Now, when I have those image in my head, I could hear him trying to touch me and touching himself in the same time next to the bed, you know? And I was even attaching my pajama with my shoelaces because to make sure, like, he can't put it down. And, uh, one day, he did, and I was just, like, terrorized. So, that's the things I grew up with. Like, you know, I can't cry. For me, crying was a sign of weakness. When I do a video and I see a comment, someone say, "Oh, Patrice, my dad pass away. I watch one of your video and I smile. Thank you," this is more important for me than winning the Champions League or the Premier League. I'm not perfect, and I don't wanna be perfect. I wanna be me. (upbeat music)

   2. SBSteven Bartlett1:07

      Patrice Evra. I've just sat here with him for an hour and a half, and at the very end of the conversation he said something which I think is the perfect description of the man. He referred to himself as an iceberg. I've followed him for almost two decades, and he was, to me, this football icon, this tough guy, this defender, this champion. But as he says in this conversation, the part of the iceberg that I never got to see was the most compelling, was the most heartbreaking, and was the most interesting. He grew up in a rough part of France with 24 brothers and sisters. He was sexually abused by his head teacher. His brother, a drug addict, overdosed and died. His mother raised him in total poverty to the point where he stole his food, his shoes, and his entertainment. He endured an early upbringing that you would never wish on any child, an enemy, or anyone at all, in any circumstances ever, and he hid it all. He hid it all for his entire life. And only recently has he found it within himself, after very personal conversations with his mother, to share it with the world. And only today, on this podcast, has he decided to share some of those heartbreaking details. After watching him on TV for almost two decades, I thought I knew Patrice Evra, this comedian, football champion, funny guy, happy guy. (sighs) I was wrong. All I knew was the tip of the iceberg. So, without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. (upbeat music) I've sat here with a lot of guests, and sometimes I feel obliged to start with their childhoods because it seems like the- the foundation of most people, specifically successful people, tends to be the case that the things they go through at an early age, especially with my sort of little background in childhood psychology, tend to shape them the most. But when I read your story in your book that's just come out, um, having watched you on screen as a Manchester United fan for many ...

   3. PEPatrice Evra3:42

      Yes.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett3:42

      ... many a decade, and seen subsequently the guy you were on Instagram, the- the hilarious, entertaining person, I never ever would have guessed, ever, that that was your upbringing, that was your childhood. I would have guessed by

2. 4:00 – 13:26

   Your early years

   1. SBSteven Bartlett4:00

      the person that I came to know on screen, by the person that I watched on Instagram, I would have guessed the opposite. Take me back to before you were 10 years old, because I know that 10 years old-

   2. PEPatrice Evra4:09

      Yeah.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett4:09

      ... was a really pivotal moment in your life because your father left.

   4. PEPatrice Evra4:11

      Yeah.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett4:12

      What was life like before 10?

   6. PEPatrice Evra4:14

      It was (sighs) an happy, happy child. Uh, a lot of people inside the house. Sometimes you have to make sure, like, you ready when mom say that the food is ready.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett4:24

      (laughs)

   8. PEPatrice Evra4:25

      Uh, it was like sleeping with two of my sibling in the same bed, a single bed, and you know, two was sleeping that way, and one on that way. Sometime it was like some smelly feet, but we need space, and it was all about, like, sharing. But I will tell you something. Uh, I was happy. You know, even if I was, like, begging in front of shop, you know, to buy a sandwich, I couldn't say in that time I wasn't happy. I was, like, the most happy child. But it was, like, tough, and maybe sometime I was just, like, unconscious. But, of course, I think when my dad left, that's when I was like, "Okay, I'm not scared of anyone in this house, so now I have to grow up on my own." And that's when I was like, I would say more close to the street. Because when my dad was here, you know, just when I was saying like, "Dad, I wanna go and play outside with my friend," he was like, "Did you... Have you done your homework?" Even, I swear, even if I did my homework, I was scared to say yes. So, he- when you say yes to him, it was like, "Okay, bring me your- your book." And I remember he was like, "Okay, which lesson you have to learn tomorrow?" And I was like doing the lesson perfectly, and he was going to the first page of the book and saying like, "Okay, tell me about this." And I couldn't remember. I was like, "Yeah, but Dad, we did this at the beginning," you know?

   9. SBSteven Bartlett5:43

      (laughs)

   10. PEPatrice Evra5:43

       This is like, "Okay, when you learn your full book, then you will be able to go outside." So, my dad, when w- he was at home, we didn't miss anything. You know, we have food on the table. Everything was perfect. I- I had, like, a big screen TV. I remember we are one of the first family in where I- I grew up in my street to have that big screen, and all of my friend, they come and so...I, I, I, I couldn't, I would never complain when my dad was here. He did his job perfectly, but the only things, you know, my dad, uh, teached me, uh, crying is a weakness. So when he was like punishing someone and you cry, that's when he gonna, he gonna beat you even more. So that's the things I grew up with, like, you know, I can't cry. And that's why we can talk about that toxic masculinity, they understand crying is normal. But for me, crying was a sign of weakness.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett6:36

       Why did he leave?

   12. PEPatrice Evra6:45

       He leave because my mom divorce him. Uh, and sometime he was, uh, he was violent with her. And I remember, you know, being kids and (laughs) no one asked me these questions. That's why I'm a little bit emotional and, and you know, my mom was like, "No one man can raise his hand on me." So she divorce, he had to leave, you know, she went to the police and, uh, and he had to go. And it was a tough moment because, you know, when you see your dad leaving, no matter if you know the reason he shouldn't have done that. Uh, leave, seeing him taking all the sofa, the, the, the big TV, the big screen. He was with a big trunk waiting for him and we were all of my brother and sister crying because, you know, it's your dad. But at the same time, what he was doing to my momi wasn't right. So-

   13. SBSteven Bartlett7:40

       Did you witness that?

   14. PEPatrice Evra7:41

       Yeah, I think like, you know, sometime we try to open the door and, uh, if you opened that door, you know, it was, uh, it was really scary, you know. And if you, when you heard your mom like fighting back because to be fair, my mom, she's a strong woman, you know. And my dad, uh, he say that now, he say like, "Don't play with your mom because she's a strong woman." So in, in that time, yeah, when you experience that you, you just terrorized. You're like, "What's, what's going on?" You know, it's your parents, they should like kiss each other. So yeah.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett8:19

       And you look back on that moment he left, obviously an incredibly sad moment-

   16. PEPatrice Evra8:23

       Yeah.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett8:23

       ... but are you happy that he left, considering?

   18. PEPatrice Evra8:27

       The problem, you know, when you're kid, you, you don't really understand. I was happy because my mom at the end, you know, she was, uh, she was happy. But to see your dad left, leaving, no matter which reason, you can't be happy. Uh, now I understand the reason, uh, I forgive him. But, uh, saying I was happy, no.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett8:55

       So he leaves, your life takes a, a turn after that-

   20. PEPatrice Evra8:59

       Yeah.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett8:59

       ... because you've lost that figure in your life and maybe a bit of, I don't know, restriction has left-

   22. PEPatrice Evra9:06

       Yeah.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett9:06

       ... the family home, so you can act on other motivations and incentives and other ways to survive, I guess. And what, w- what's the, what person did you become after that?

   24. PEPatrice Evra9:19

       (sighs) I would say a warrior, like-

   25. SBSteven Bartlett9:22

       A warrior?

   26. PEPatrice Evra9:23

       Yeah. I think it's a survivor, because after, like I say, you know, it's you in the street and or, or I kill you or you kill me, you know, when you grow up in the street. That's why I hate when some people they talk about their background and they'll say like, "Oh, I was a gangster." No. I will never call myself a gangster. I was just a survivor, and it was difficult, you know. So yeah, like you say, when he left, no more restriction, going out, fighting outside, lying to your mom. Uh, the police, you know, bring me one day home around 1:00 AM. My mom was so worried, like, and I remember it was so funny because some words I didn't even know what they mean. So when they bring me back home and my mom was, you know, just she put her, uh, like her hand on her mouth, "What's going on?" She was, you know, "His, his son, you know, bring back from the police." And I was like, "Mom- Mommy, I just being an accomplice." (laughs) And she beat me like so bad. But now I understand it's even worse, you know, because I was like, "I didn't steal. I just was looking when my friend was stealing." And stuff like that. So it was just a mess, and, um, no one, even my school teacher, when they were talking to me at school, I was like, "Can you put the volume down? You're not my dad." So I didn't let anyone, you know, talking like, saying, "You can't do this, you can't do that." But I always respect my mom, uh, and my brother and my sister. And I was, uh, I was respectful with my friend, but when someone tried to give me some authority, he couldn't have it because I was like the one have, like, the most authority on me was my dad, he left. So now I don't need any authority from no one.

   27. SBSteven Bartlett11:20

       And you get, you start ... I read you started stealing things.

   28. PEPatrice Evra11:24

       Yeah.

   29. SBSteven Bartlett11:24

       You started selling weed.

   30. PEPatrice Evra11:26

       Yeah. I think stealing was, uh, was normal because I was like with my friend. I remember the first time I, I steal, it was, uh, some gum. And, you know, I was hanging up with my friend, they were stealing, I wasn't, because I was still, like, having a good education from my dad, from my mom. And to be part of the group, you need to, you know, it's like some people when they drink 'cause they want, they, they find that excuse to be like social. So it was stealing. So I start steal and everyone clapped me. So I was like, "Wow, finally I'm part of the gang." And from there it go like to deal like video games, uh, to sell weed, you know, to having the best like, sneakers and, you know, even offering some stuff to your girlfriend.
3. 13:26 – 26:03

   Child abuse

   1. PEPatrice Evra13:26

      it was far from my house. I have to take two train to go to school because I went to that school because it was a school where, you know, you good at football, you... After school, you have to train. So it wasn't an academy, but it was a school where you can train also. So, it was a good opportunity. To be fair, my mom was like, "It's, it's good. He's, he's leaving the street because he will end up in jail or dead. So, it's perfect for him." So, uh, I went there and I was taking like, you know, two train, four hours sometime. And, uh, losing my, uh, my school bag, sleeping on the train, you know, even sometime end up, like, to another destination. So, it was a mess. And, uh, that school teacher, head teacher, he, he speak to me. He said, "Do you want, like, to stay?" Because I living, I'm living inside the, the, the school. He have his home inside the school. So I went back home and I say to my mom, you know, "He offered that." And my mom was like, not sure about it at the beginning, because even when I tell her, I will speak later about it, she, she... I knew it. And she was like, "Are you sure? Can you trust this man?" I was like, "Yeah. He, he seem nice, mom." So that head teacher at the beginning, he wa- everything was perfect. He was, uh, cooking for me in the evening. He was letting me play his Nintendo. He had the Nintendo at the time. So I was like, "Yeah, that's, that's cool. You know, I don't need to go back home in the weekend and, uh, I just stay here and, uh..." Then every night, I was in my bed, and, uh, every time he was coming, you know, in my room. And I was... The first time I was like, maybe, you know, he just say, come to say goodnight. But he was, uh... I was sleeping and I was feeling a hand on my body and I was like, "Oh, what's going on?" You know. Then he was trying to touch me, but I was like holding his hand. So it was like a fight for, for 10 minutes. Uh, and I was still couldn't understand. I was 13, but you know, I, I, I didn't have any, uh, sexual relation even with any girls at that time. So for me it was, everything was new. I was like, "What's, what's going on?" You know. Um, we fight many time and he didn't succeed. And he was, you know, now when I have those image in my head, I could hear him trying to touch me and touching himself in the same time next to the bed, you know. Then he was leaving and every time I was like, "Oh, he's gone." So he's start to become a ritual. Every time I go to bed, he coming. The same things. Fight everything, fight, fight. And, uh, one day, you know, I was even attaching my pajama with my la- laces. Like, I remember 'cause-

   2. SBSteven Bartlett16:12

      Your shoelaces?

   3. PEPatrice Evra16:12

      Yeah, yeah, shoelaces. Because to make sure, like, he can't put it down. And, uh, to be fair, you know, he was trying, like, on the top of my clothes, but fighting, so. So one day he did. He put my pants down and he put, uh, my penis in his mouth. And I was just like terrorized. I remember I was ju- I, I just freeze. You know, I knock his head, but I... And aft- I, I just freeze. I, I couldn't... I didn't understand what's going on. Then he left. Then I wake up, I can't even remember what's happened because, you know those things, you just like erase them from your memory. So I back to school. I think in school I was thinking about what's, what happened. It's like something not normal. Then, then I went home, I say, "Mom, I don't wanna sleep anymore to that head teacher." She say, "Why?" I say, "No, I just don't want." I never tell her the reason until now. So after that I, I live all my life with that. You're from the street, you know. You come back, you're like, imagine you tell that to one of your friend. They're gonna say, you know, "You're weak." All of those stuff. So even for me, when I had my first sexual relation, it was weird because I had this man in my head. You know, and this, I never told that to anyone. So I was like massively traumatized. Then actually, because all of that, I back to my school where I grow up in the street, and I stop even going to that school. Even like people were like, "But you're so good at football. Why?" I said, "I don't need it. I will keep training on my own on the street, you know. I don't want to be in that school anymore." (sighs) So yeah, I grew up with that things for so many years. And what I feel as a coward is when I was 24 years old... no, 20 years old.And I was still playing for Monaco at the time. And the police called me. "Hi, Mr., uh ... This is the number of Patrice Evra?" "Yeah." "Um, you know, we've got a lot of complaint about that head teacher." I don't even remember his name. I don't- I couldn't even tell you his face, because I erased all of this in my memory. Uh, "There's been a lot of complaint about child, they're being abused about that head teacher. Did he touch you?" "No." "Are you sure?" "Yes, I'm sure." And I was angry even when people asked me that question. You know, it was like, oh, there, someone ask me about that. Put the phone down. So all this year, I was like, "Wow, Patrice, you had the opportunity when you were 13 years old, you didn't. I will understand. But now you're 20 and you couldn't, just what, because you still shame of it? Because you're famous? You scared of the reaction of the people?" But doing that that day, that's why growing up, when people say, "Patrice, you're a good guys." I- I wasn't feeling that- that way, because I was feeling as a coward.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett19:30

      A coward?

   5. PEPatrice Evra19:31

      A coward, yeah. Because it wasn't about Patrice. It was about the other child I let down when the police call me. It's about the other child that's still being abused right now. So coming out with this ... helped me a lot. And I have to say a massive thanks to the woman of my life, Margot. Because, you know, sometimes people say, "You need a psychologist." But in life, sometimes it's about which person you meet. I'm someone, I really believe in energy. And to be fair, after that, trusting anyone, a psychologist, I would say maybe I will tell him this, he don't care. He just pay for that job. Some of them are really good and never... I never met any psychologist. But, me, that woman, like ...

   6. SBSteven Bartlett20:15

      She was a r- a romantic partner?

   7. PEPatrice Evra20:17

      Yeah. She- she- she make me being myself and being honest with myself. Don't be ashamed of anything, baby. And I'm here, and I will never ... Me, Patrice, the tough guy (laughs) don't showing emotion. Think a woman can, you know, extract those real emotions from myself. I was like, wow, 40 years old.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett20:43

      So, there was a day you told, you shared that with her?

   9. PEPatrice Evra20:45

      Yeah.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett20:46

       Can you tell me about that day?

   11. PEPatrice Evra20:49

       Like I said, the day I shared that with her, it was, uh ... You know, when she met me, I was 38, so I was just, uh, retired from football. Doing all my things, and she went, "Oh my God, you- you seem so happy, and such a positive man, but I ... Do you care about yourself, Patrice?" I said, "Yeah." And she asked me one simple question. "Are you happy?" (laughs) "Yes, I'm happy. I'm happy, you know, I make you happy, I make my..." "But Patrice, what make you happy?" "Uh ... I'm happy." No, ha- (laughs) just saying like, "I'm happy," this is not an answer. So she go deep. And, uh, we didn't talk about the subject. I said, "No, I'm fine." She said, "No, because I can see. Yes, you're an impulsive person, you like to fight, you see, because this from the street and everything. But I think you got something, you got a pain on your chest and you don't want ..." I was like, "I'm fine. I'm fine." Then one day, we watched something and it was about pedophile and stuff, so again, she look at my face, she said like, "You okay?" I said, "Yeah, I'm okay. Why you ask me ... " "No, Patrice, I feel you. You're hiding something." I said, "Why, why you ... You know, I don't like when people wanna try inside, go to get inside ... I'm fine." I was still closing the door. "If you love me, you should like tell me what's going on. I need to, I need to know already." I look at her just cry, crying like a baby. I cry like a baby. She hug me. "What's going on?" And I tell her the full story. So she cry. She was like, "I knew. Thank you. Have you say that to someone? To the police, to your mom?" I said, "No. You are the first person, and I don't wanna say to anybody else." "Do you wanna see a th-, uh, uh, do you go for th- do you wanna go for therapy?" And I said, "I'm fine, I told you." "No, Patrice, you'll, you're gonna explode one day. You need to, you know, let it out." Then when I cry and, uh, I feel much better about myself. And I was still like, you know, I cry in front of her, now she will take advantage of me. She will think I'm weak. But she was like, "You know, baby, I- I even love you more. This is a strength. Stop thinking this is a weakness." That's when she introduced me to that toxic masculinity. Couldn't understand before. She explained me what it was about. Like being a man is not like being strong or ... But I was like, "This is my education. This is the way I grow up. This is why the dad, like many dad, they do the same mistake." And I did the same with my first child, Lenny. Sometime he was talking to me, I was like, "You got everything, why you complain?" "Come on, ah, daddy, you know when I was doing this? Come on, don't be weak. Ah, daddy, you know it's painful." "Ah, it's okay." When I think about all of that now, I'm like ... 'Cause I live with that toxic masculinity. And I think men like us have to change that.... crying is a strain. And you know when you grow in the street, just like holding the hand of your girlfriend is a sign of weakness. You're not allowed to do that. So (sighs) I'm discovering myself. (clears throat) Who gonna believe that I'm 38 years old, now I'm 40, I will start to discover myself. Now everything makes sense. That trauma make me become who I am, like sometime a soldier, like no emotion, I'm going to do the job. Sometime I win some trophy, we celebrate. It was fake. I didn't, I wasn't like that happy. If you ask me, "Patrice, are you happy now?" I say, "Yes." Now I'm complete, I'm content, I feel blessed, and I feel lucky. But when I used to play football, I was a robot. I was just doing my job.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett25:22

       Your brother. You talked about the fact that you started dealing drugs back when you were younger, and then your, your brother started taking drugs.

   13. PEPatrice Evra25:31

       Yeah. (smacks lips) This was a (sighs) another massive trauma. You know? When you wake up in the, in the morning and you just wanna go in the toilet, and you open the door and you see your, your brother with a, you know... (smacks lips) Uh, an, uh, how you say this?

   14. SBSteven Bartlett25:53

       A needle.

   15. PEPatrice Evra25:54

       A needle, yeah. And looking at you with, like, eyes, you know, like red eyes and just closing

4. 26:03 – 28:16

   Your brother

   1. PEPatrice Evra26:03

      the door. And you have to hold on your, your, you know, if you wanna pee, you have to hold it because he's there. And it was one toilet in the whole house, so... And this teach me to never touch any drug because I saw my brother and he lost his life because of that.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett26:21

      He lost his life?

   3. PEPatrice Evra26:21

      He die as a overdose in Senegal. He even sell his, uh, his document, his French passport. And he went in Senegal, and one day they call my mom. My auntie say, "Your son is dead in the bathroom." So, it was tough for me to talk about this in my book because my mom, she's the son of my mom, and I don't have the right to talk about it in my book 'cause we're talking about a dead person. But I just, unfortunately, this show me, like, taking drug, I can lose my life. Like the same for alcohol. Uh, I didn't drink until I was 33 years old.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett27:04

      Wow.

   5. PEPatrice Evra27:04

      Because for me, a glass of alcohol was the homeless people living in my street. And anyway, my mom and my dad don't drink. So I never had that culture, so that's why I couldn't understand when I came in England and people were drinking, even, like, footballer players. And, you know, when we were going to party, they would always say to the waitress, "Can we have a hot chocolate for Patrice?"

   6. SBSteven Bartlett27:24

      Hmm.

   7. PEPatrice Evra27:25

      Because the alcohol and the drugs, it was like, "You're gonna end up dead." Poison. You know?

   8. SBSteven Bartlett27:34

      You, um... So going back to this topic of to- toxic masculinity.

   9. PEPatrice Evra27:37

      Yeah.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett27:37

       It's something I've actually been thinking a lot about because my girlfriend, funnily enough, has started to talk to me a lot about the idea. This is why I was just remaining quiet and listening first. But, but, um, she started talking to me a lot about the idea of the masculine and the feminine and how, uh, a rounded, healthy man embodies both sides of him and is able to tap into both sides of him. Sounds like your early years, um, made you use one of those sides, which is the masculine side, as a form of self-defense in many ways, as a way to survive. 'Cause I'm thi- I'm hearing what you went through and I'm thinking, th- you know, using the feminine energy, the, the emotion, the expression of, uh, you know, one's,

5. 28:16 – 40:38

   Toxic masculinity

   1. SBSteven Bartlett28:16

      how someone feels, care, the softness, wouldn't have been conducive with survival in that situation. So, as you get 40 years on, how do you then unlearn your survival technique?

   2. PEPatrice Evra28:28

      (sighs)

   3. SBSteven Bartlett28:28

      How do you, how do you unlearn the, the masculine, defensive, don't cry, don't show weakness, which you now know is, is, um, important for you to have good relationships, romantic relationships, to be balanced yourself, to be open, to be expressive, and to not self-destruct?

   4. PEPatrice Evra28:45

      What I love about you is the way you question myself. You even make me think. But you're right. If I have this feminine, you know, emotion in that time, I won't survive, because, uh, we know women are more emotional than, than men.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett29:00

      Hmm.

   6. PEPatrice Evra29:01

      So, what you just say (laughs) to me, I'm like, "Yeah, Patrice-

   7. SBSteven Bartlett29:04

      (laughs)

   8. PEPatrice Evra29:04

      ... you wanna fight against that, uh, toxic masculinity, but you're happy when you need it.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett29:10

      Hmm.

   10. PEPatrice Evra29:10

       Now because you're 40 years old, you don't need it anymore."

   11. SBSteven Bartlett29:13

       And you're a dad now, so you're gonna teach-

   12. PEPatrice Evra29:15

       You're gonna teach, but I'll be honest with you, that's why, you know, my woman was scared when we have our, our son. Uh, she was like, "Patrice, before he, he born, I don't want him to be like you." Wow. (laughs) She put that on my face. "What do you mean?" "Yeah, I want him to be determinate, passion, funny, positive, but I don't want him to have your emotion." 'Cause-

   13. SBSteven Bartlett29:44

       Or lack of.

   14. PEPatrice Evra29:45

       Yeah. I was like, "But I think, you know, when he cry, I will say like, 'Don't, don't cry.'" She goes, "That's exactly what I'm talking about. When he cry, I want you to say, 'It's okay. Let your emotion out.'" But it's difficult for me at the beginning, so I was like, "Nah, I want, I, I don't want him to cry when he fall and everything." And the funny part is when she was still pregnant, uh, you know, when woman... This is all more about relationship because now I know a relationship is not just about love, it's about caring and communication, you know. I don't wanna be like now the, the priest or... Because when I talk like this, so many people like that, "Oh, I wish my husband is like you." No.... I've been the bad guys too.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett30:32

       Mm-hmm.

   16. PEPatrice Evra30:32

       So, don't get me wrong. But now, I'm more like, feeling like ... So, back to that moment, we were in the car. She was with a, a drink, and I said, "Don't drink because it's bumpy and you're gonna sp-..." And she hate, like, you know, having mark on the... She drink, pa-

   17. SBSteven Bartlett30:53

       Sprit on the shirt?

   18. PEPatrice Evra30:53

       Spill on the shirt, yeah, spill on the shirt. She cry. I promise you, Steve, I cry instantly with her because I feel her. I feel a, a, a, a sadness. The, the old Patrice would be like, "But come on. Why you crying just because you spill coffee on..." But in that moment, I didn't, I wasn't focused on the, the reason why she's crying. I was like, just on the emotion, "She's crying. She's in pain."

   19. SBSteven Bartlett31:24

       Hmm.

   20. PEPatrice Evra31:25

       You don't need to fix it. She need a hug. The moment she saw me crying, she stopped crying. She stopped crying straight away. And for me, it was new. I was like, "What's going on? I can even feel your pain." You know, sometime you say you love someone, but this is like a deep love, like even now, she cry, I cry automatically. Even now. We talking, and when she's next to me, I miss her. I never experienced that.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett31:55

       Mm-hmm.

   22. PEPatrice Evra31:56

       And now, it's so special, so c- to come back to, uh, my son. When he cry now, you know, my woman can be, "Oh, come on, Lilas. Oh." I'm like, "But it's okay." You know, it must be a reason, because he's angry, so I'm the one softer now.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett32:15

       Mm-hmm.

   24. PEPatrice Evra32:16

       So, that's why I'm like, "Wow, Patrice-

   25. SBSteven Bartlett32:18

       (laughs)

   26. PEPatrice Evra32:18

       ... you just a different man." We had a rule. If we argue, because don't get me wrong, we argue like normal couple, we're not special, but it's just like, we don't put it under the carpet. We fix it. But not like we force it, n- in a natural way.

   27. SBSteven Bartlett32:35

       (laughs)

   28. PEPatrice Evra32:35

       When, for example, w- we argue, straight away, and she say, "We need to talk," because women say, "We need to talk." "I'm not ready." "We need to talk." "I'm not r- ... No, give me my space." Then I come back, "Okay, let's talk about it." I'm apologize. But I'm apologize because I mean it.

   29. SBSteven Bartlett32:50

       Mm-hmm.

   30. PEPatrice Evra32:50

       Not because you force me to apologize.
6. 40:38 – 51:43

   What does football mean to you

   1. PEPatrice Evra40:38

      the, the way the people, yeah, think in my street. Uh, "Stop. You know, you look cute. You can just find a girl and you know." I was like, "No, you know, I love football and I need to training every day." I remember even at school, sometime when the, we went to school and the teacher couldn't make it because of the traffic or the snow and they were like, "Okay, we free." Some kids, they were wanted to go back home. I was like, "No, no, no. There's a football pitch just next to the school, we have to play." And I was threatening them. Sometime they couldn't, like some kid, I was like, "If you don't come, I'm gonna beat you." And they were coming and training. Yeah, I was forcing people to play football with me.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett41:12

      Why?

   3. PEPatrice Evra41:14

      It's an addiction. I don't know. It was my reason of living.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett41:18

      Is it your escape from life?

   5. PEPatrice Evra41:21

      I, I, I think I could say it was both. It was my escape, but it was also my love, my passion. Just when you give me, like, a football, it was like everything for me, you know? I remember that head teacher, the first day you, you come at school and they ask what you wanna become later. And many people were lawyers, uh, policemen, um, many good job, doctor and, and me, she was looki- write, um, reading what I was, my note and football player, but I didn't even know what was football player. I was like, "I play football, but so a football player?" And she was taking my note in front of everyone and she was like, "Patrice think football player is a job." And everyone was laughing, everyone, my friend. I was looking so... And she was going even deeper. She was, uh, "But, you know, if it's a trial and 300 kid, they will pick one kid. Do you think it's going to be you?" I was like, "Yes." And everyone was even more laughing. But at the end now, I don't want to get any revenge with that teacher. I just want to make sure she don't say the same things to other kids, because me, in that time, I was really strong mentally. So no one, you know, can project their own fear, because some people, I hate those people when say, "I'm going to this." "No, you can't..." Because they try to projecting their own failure on you. Me now, if a kid, I was, you know-... I see some, some, some kid at the school in Manchester, and I was like, "If you want to become the president of the universe, go for it. You going to have lot of enemies and make lots of sacrifices."

   6. SBSteven Bartlett42:59

      (laughs) There's no president of the universe, Patrice. (laughs)

   7. PEPatrice Evra43:00

      I know, it doesn't exis- that's what I mean. But that's what I mean, and like, the, even though, like, the job doesn't exist, go for it. Go for it if you dream about it. And that's, that was the beauty of me when I was child, like, everyone, like, I did a trial at PSG, and I did everything perfect. At the end, they say, "You're too small, and you're from the street, and we scare you're going to steal things in the dressing room." Yeah. That's why the coach-

   8. SBSteven Bartlett43:30

      PS- PSG?

   9. PEPatrice Evra43:31

      ... PSG, that's what the coach told me. And they didn't take me just for those two reasons.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett43:35

       Fucking hell.

   11. PEPatrice Evra43:36

       (laughs) So, so I have lot of, like, "You won't make it," and more people do that, more I'm like ... That's why I say I'm lucky. Mentally, I can't tell you why I'm that strong, maybe about from my dad, my mom, or all the things that I have to survive, but this was even making me more stronger.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett43:54

       Did you have a plan B?

   13. PEPatrice Evra43:56

       No. I didn't have any plan B. This was all or nothing. And that's the scary things when I think about it now, because some of my friend, or some people, they were like, "Patrice, you know, school is important. You should have your diploma and stuff." I was like, "I wanna be a footballer player." But I get in shock when I knew actually playing football, you can win money. I wasn't aware about that. Like, when I signed my first contract when I was 17, I didn't care about the money. In that time, it will make you laugh, you know what I was most happy? Is when I saw my tracksuit on the, on the bed and I wear it, and I was looking myself in the mirror, and I was, "Oh my God." And I went downstair to join the team, and I see all the players sitting at table, and people coming to serving them the food. It was like, remember, like three fork in one side (laughs) three knife on one side.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett44:53

       (laughs)

   15. PEPatrice Evra44:53

       I call my mom. I say, "Mom, I'm even. Like, this is paradise. People serving us the food, I've got like three ... Now I've got a tracksuit, we all dress the same and..." My mom cry on the phone. I remember that day. (laughs) It's so ... You know, when people ask me, "What is your best memory when you play football?" That was my best memory. Not winning the Champions League or ... It is when I was 17, you know, that kid and just, just having food, and then a normal tracksuit. Make me so happy. And that's my best memory I had since I play football.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett45:43

       'Cause you'd- you'd made it. You'd made-

   17. PEPatrice Evra45:46

       I made it that day. I was like, "I made it, Mom. I won't be in the street anymore, I won't have to survive to fight. I won't have to beg money." So, it was just crazy, and even in that time, even some people, they still take advantage, because when I signed my first contract, actually, I sign a paper with the mafia, the Italian mafia, and I was their pre- uh, property. And I didn't doubt, I found out this when ... After I wanted to move for AS Roma, and AS Roma, we say, "We have to call off the deal because you are the property of that man." And he was a guy, he's from the mafia. And actually, on that time, I remember, when I first, my, my first contract, I was earning, uh, it was like 50 Pound now per month. And we had like five months where they didn't pay us. Uh, I remember my mom and my brother, they come to visit me in Sicily and, you know, a breast chicken, one breast chicken was for three days. We had to cut it, like, in cube, little cube. I remember she was like twisting in a little bag. And that's it, that was for the meal for ... Sometime we had only one meal per day. But I was happy, and I remember my mom come to visit me in Sicily, and she cry. She said, "But what you doing here?" You know, I was like, "Mommy, I just love football." She was like, "But you have nothing. Look where you live." I was, you know, it was, uh, like, if you see my first flat, I mean, like, they allowed me to live in that flat, it was disaster. But I was happy because I had football?And every time when I was training or when we played a game, I was scared to the referee to, to blow the final whistle because I was like, "What I'm going to do now? I'm back to the reality." So for me, playing was (clicks tongue) it was just a dream.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett47:57

       Hmm. Hard to imagine. It's hard to, (clears throat) hard to imagine how, how difficult life must be for you to not want the whistle to blow on a, on a football game. It's ... Was there a moment where, where that changed and where you no longer started to dread the final whistle blowing because your life off the pitch was somewhere to look forward to?

   19. PEPatrice Evra48:26

       It is when I, uh, (clears throat) I get rid of those people around me and, uh, the, the mafia, and I, I sign with a new agent and, uh, I sign for Nice, so I go back to France. A bigger salary. I think I was, uh, earning something like, uh, 3K per month. So, much better life, be able to even help my mom. And from that moment, I was like, "Okay, now I'm safe."... I'm safe. And after, you know, I signed for Monaco, of course, and I keep my word. I say, you know, when my dad left, and in school they give you, like, a little money, and my dad was taking this money to send it to Senegal, to my other brother and sister. So, I remember my sister went after my mum, like, you know, with two lawyers and everything. She get that money from the school, and not my dad anymore. My sister get that money and she go to buy, like, some makeup and everything. I was like, "Shame on you." "Our mum, like, she feeding us every single day," like, "And why you don't give that money?" And I, I say, "Me, Mummy, I don't want anything. This is for you, because we living in your roof, you feeding us every day. This is for you." "No, but Patrice, this is for you." "Mummy, I don't need this." And I say, "Mum, when I gonna have my big contract, the first things I gonna do..." Because that's what's my motivation, is to buy a house to my mum. And I did it, and I think that's what's one of the most pride moment of my life, because I say to my mum and I keep my word, and I bought her a house in Senegal. Before I bought, of course, (laughs) with my money when I play for Monaco, my Porsche and everything, cars, 'cause I w- I like cars. Not now anymore, because I understand how stupid it is.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett50:20

       (laughs)

   21. PEPatrice Evra50:20

       But, yeah, that's was, uh, one of my biggest achievement, because-

   22. SBSteven Bartlett50:25

       She must've been proud, right?

   23. PEPatrice Evra50:27

       My mum, uh, my mum cry every time she see me.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett50:30

       (laughs)

   25. PEPatrice Evra50:31

       Because, uh, sometimes she's like, "You don't under- You... It's many things you don't know, Patrice. Like, when we were, like, alone and no one wanted to help us." And now, that's why it's so funny when suddenly you are someone, and people, th- they're like, "Your aunty come back, or your uncle," but they weren't there when, you know, we need them the most. So, she always cries. She say, "I'm too nice." But me, I'm like, "I don't have any hate in my heart." It's difficult.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett51:01

       And, uh, Manchester United. I'm, uh-

   27. PEPatrice Evra51:05

       Yeah.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett51:06

       Yeah. (laughs) I can't im- (laughs) I can't, can't imagine what that would've been like getting a, getting a call that that's, uh-

   29. PEPatrice Evra51:12

       But you will laugh, because before United I was start being ove- I will call it over-confident and arrogant, because I was playing for Monaco, I reached the final of Champions League.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett51:22

       (laughs)
7. 51:43 – 1:05:02

   Joining Manchester United

   1. PEPatrice Evra51:43

      I say... And what stuck in my head when he say Manchester United, Cantona.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett51:50

      Really?

   3. PEPatrice Evra51:50

      Yeah. Cantona, you know, he score all the goals.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett51:53

      Yeah, yeah, the colors, yeah.

   5. PEPatrice Evra51:54

      Wow. I say, "Ah, okay, Manchester United." He say, "Ah, it's where Cantona, yeah?" 'Cause I wasn't following.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett51:59

      Really?

   7. PEPatrice Evra52:00

      Yeah. I can tell you something, I, I don't watch football.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett52:03

      You're supposed to say it was-

   9. PEPatrice Evra52:04

      It's something-

   10. SBSteven Bartlett52:04

       ... a childhood dream. (laughs)

   11. PEPatrice Evra52:05

       Yeah. It was just like... It's just me and playing football, so watching football is like going to work. That's when I was young. But now as a pundit, I have to watch football game. But it's something I've never been interested and it's something I never enjoyed, so I didn't know. Although sometime I was watching some result, Manchester United, because of Cantona, so I say to my agent, "Yeah, okay." He say, "You should go to Manchester. I think Manchester suit you." I say, "Why not?" Then, uh, we met, uh, Sir Alex Ferguson, because at that time, you know, I still playing for Monaco, so you can't be approached by another team, you know, you broke the rules. So, we met, uh, in the airport.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett52:45

       (laughs)

   13. PEPatrice Evra52:45

       In a secret room, yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett52:48

       (laughs) A secret room-

   15. PEPatrice Evra52:48

       In Paris, France.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett52:49

       ... at the airport?

   17. PEPatrice Evra52:50

       Yeah, in the secret room-

   18. SBSteven Bartlett52:50

       Sounds illegal.

   19. PEPatrice Evra52:52

       ... in the airport. And that day, that interview was like being interviewed by the FBI. It was like, "Do you smoke? Do you drink? Do you like to party? Are you ready to not lose one game? Are you ready to not even draw a game?" "Yes."

   20. SBSteven Bartlett53:09

       Sir Alex said that?

   21. PEPatrice Evra53:10

       Yeah. He shake my hands. He said, "Now you shake my hands." So, that's, you know, playing for Man United, or everything I say, "That's what you, you will have to do," and all those stuff. Even if some people (laughs) , they drink and they do many thing, but it was about more the winning mentality. And when he shake my hand, he looked straight in my eyes, and when you look straight at his eyes, you make sure you don't disappoint him. So, what I love about Ferguson is that day, also, he say, "You know, son, we know your background, you know where you come from, but just be yourself. I won't change you. I just want you to bleed for United, for the fan, for the people from Manchester," you know? Uh, work ethic. And it was already in my DNA, so when I joined United, I was like, "Finally, I can be myself." Because even in France, playing for Monaco, when sometime I was saying, like, "I wanna be the best left back," or, "I am the best..." "Oh, he's too arrogant, he's this." So, the French media, they didn't understand me. They were like, you know, "He's too arrogant." And I win also the, the Youngest French Player in the league, and normally only striker like Henry, Zidane. I was the first defender to win those kind of trophies, so I was like over-confident. So, when I joined Manchester and Ferguson tell me all those word, it was a different story.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett54:31

       Hmm.

   23. PEPatrice Evra54:32

       I was like, "Finally, pff, I can express myself." Like Cantona say, you know, in France, they will build him a g- the guillotine. In Manchester, they will build him a statue.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett54:43

       Hmm.

   25. PEPatrice Evra54:44

       And that's the truth, because in Manchester they let you be yourself, you know. Even if, you know, you have to kick a fan or stuff, they will still be behind. They know is wrong, but you still feel the support.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett54:56

       Mm-hmm.

   27. PEPatrice Evra54:56

       You still feel you're part of the family, so we're gonna accept you, you know, uh-... the way you are, and that's what's really important. Even if, I think everyone know the story (laughs) of my first game.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett55:10

       I think I saw well.

   29. PEPatrice Evra55:11

       Yeah. Uh, (laughs) just crazy because I, I just came back. I just trained with the team three days. We had a derby against Manchester City.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett55:23

       (laughs)
8. 1:05:02 – 1:13:51

   Sir Alex Ferguson

   1. PEPatrice Evra1:05:02

      in the, in the front of the people." But, you can go after, and that's what I was doing with Ferguson. So I'll tell you one game. We play against Tottenham, winning two-nil, halftime, playing the best game in my life. I promise you. I was like, wow, on fire. I came back in the dressing room, drink some water. People, "Oh my God, Patrice, you're on fire," everything.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:24

      (laughs)

   3. PEPatrice Evra1:05:24

      I sit. Ferguson sit. When he sit and he doesn't speak for, for three minute or five, like, you, it mean, like, someone is in trouble. I look at him. He look at me. He say, "Patrice, you okay?" And me, "Yeah, yeah. I'm okay, boss. Yeah." "Mm, are you tired?" Seriously, I look around if it was, like, a prank, if it was some camera. (laughs) And I look for him. Even people were like, "What?" I say, "No." He say, "Why you pass the ball back to van der Sar?" I say, "Because I, uh, I didn't have any solution forward and that was the only pass I pass because I like to play forward this." "If you do that again, I will, you will come and watch the, the, the rest of the game next to me." He, and he used many F word. He said, "This is the worst game you playing since you play for Manchester United." That's why I stood up. I was like, "What's going on?" "This is, this is, like, this is..." He was like, "You shouldn't... If you pass the ball back again, I promise you, you will never play for..." And just this. (exhales) Like a stand up. But I keep my mouth shut. I was biting my lips. Even people, they were in shock. They were scared of, like, Giggs. Everyone was like, "What's going on?" Came back, second half, we beat Tottenham four-nil. Boom, boom. Four-nil and everything. After the game, everyone, they are, "Oh my God, don't listen to him, Patrice. You were on fire." I mean, yeah, yeah. Did my shower quickly. Pfft. I remember the ne- I couldn't wait to sleep and to come back the next day. Next day, I come. (hand knocking on table) I open. "Who is it?" I open the door. "Oh, Patrice. How are you, my son?" I say, "Boss, oh, I am? What's happen yesterday?" "Patrice, you were the best player on the pitch, but, you know, Cristiano was start doing some skill, some player, they were, like, missing s- to, uh, chance to score. You know, when you play for Man United, when you score one goal, you have to score a second. When you score a second, you have to score a third goal. You have to respect the people they come to watching."I was like, "Wait a minute, boss." "You were the best player, my son. Alé, get out of my office, FFC." (laughs) I was ...

   4. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:35

      (laughs)

   5. PEPatrice Evra1:07:36

      French FC. Uh, well, and he was, like, whistling, singing, and laughing. Then I came out of the office, I was like, actually, he know I could take the, the, the fire. He wanted to send a message to the other player.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:52

      To Cristiano?

   7. PEPatrice Evra1:07:54

      Cristiano and many of the player, to keep focus and to respect Tottenham. But he, he picked the best player on the pitch to send that message. Automatically, all the other player, they were like, "If he's killing the best player in the pitch, we better ..."

   8. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:11

      (laughs)

   9. PEPatrice Evra1:08:11

      But that's what I'm talking about managing. That's Fergie. (laughs)

   10. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:18

       You had a bust up with Fergie in 2007.

   11. PEPatrice Evra1:08:21

       Yeah.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:22

       When he didn't play you.

   13. PEPatrice Evra1:08:23

       Oh, yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:24

       He promised he'd play you, then didn't play you.

   15. PEPatrice Evra1:08:26

       Oh, yeah. Is, uh ... This was, uh, and even now, and even I'm going to see him, uh, uh, on Saturday, I never asked him the real reason, so it's simple. I've played every cup game, FA Cup game. I've been named the best left back in the Premier League. It was like, you know, competition with me and Enzo, but I, I play more game and, anyway. The final, before the ... The day before the final, he did the team. Now, he come, we were walking with Carlos Cairos, and he was ... Unfortunately, an article on the, um, on the paper, and a big title in The Sun, and it was like, "Patrice Evra ex-drug dealer, uh, gangster." And the first page.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett1:09:18

       Wow.

   17. PEPatrice Evra1:09:19

       Do you know what they did? They went to my, where I grew up. They questioned many of my friend. And all of my friend, they say, "Yes, here, you know, we were fighting, you know, doing this." And, you know, and they said that Patrice is an example for us, because he made it. So that paper used that telling, oh, I was a gangster and everything. So it was a front page. And the day before the game, Ferguson, we were walking, going to train, and he say, uh, "Ah, Patrice, uh, uh, we need to talk," you know. I say, "What's the matter, boss?" He say, "You know, the, the Glazer, the owner, they called me, and, uh, you know, for the club, for the image of the club, you know, an ex-gangster and stuff is, you know, it's no good. I think I won't play you tomorrow." I was like, "But boss, he ..." "No, I'm joking." And he was, Carlos, like, to Cairos, "Oh, I got him. You know, he was scared. No, no, don't worry." (laughs) We train the first 11 on the team. Everything perfect. (laughs) The, the day of the game, in the morning, I like to put music. I remember. And, uh, Ferguson allowed you also to order your breakfast in your room. You don't need to go downstairs, and dancing. Tak, tak, tak. I say, "Okay, I think it's the room service." Open the door, it's Sir Alex Ferguson. He said, "Son, uh, I'm gonna put you in the bench, Enzo are gonna start. But you know what? I know you're gonna win the game for us. You know, it's really warm, Wembley. You're gonna come in, I need some speed, some fresh, you're gonna win the game. I know you disappoint." I say, "I am very disappointed." He said, "I know, I know, son, but trust me," and da, he tap, he left. So I remember after 10 minutes he asked me to warm up. We weren't playing well. I warm up for 80 minutes. It was even like just smoking. Like, I was like ... First of all, I was really angry and I was, like, running like crazy mad because I needed, like, you know, the ... All this frustration I, has to come out. We lost one-nil against Chelsea. I remember we went to take, uh, the medal. I take it, I throw it on the grass. Ferguson shake, tried to shake my hand, I didn't shake his hand. So first, first time in my life I disrespect him. Uh, my agent was there. "Why you don't play?" I said, "Go to ask to your manager."

   18. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:38

       Hmm.

   19. PEPatrice Evra1:11:38

       People from Manchester, "Are you injury, Patrice?" "No, go to ask to your manager." I say to my agent, "I, I need to go. I don't wanna play for Man United anymore. Find me a club." "No, Patrice." "I need to go, I don't wanna play for Man United anymore." Uh, it was the party, everyone was like with the family and stuff, I wasn't smiling. And, uh, three day later, Ferguson call me and he say, "Patrice, I'm sorry, I should have play you. Uh, I hope, uh, you're not too upset and, uh ... And because he told me that, I automatically forgive him, but I still don't know the reason, especially what's happening in the paper and the joke.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:19

       Hmm.

   21. PEPatrice Evra1:12:20

       And I never asked him the reason. But yeah, I was, uh ... That's, that's it. That was, I was, "I don't wanna play for United anymore."

   22. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:28

       Are you gonna ask him?

   23. PEPatrice Evra1:12:30

       N- no, because I'm someone, you know, I know he see a lot of my interview and my stuff and even watch my videos, so maybe he's going to tell me one day. But I, I don't ask, I don't ask people. I, I just like to, people, they are free. If they wanna say something about something, they just tell me. I don't like to ask people.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:49

       Does it bother you?

   25. PEPatrice Evra1:12:51

       Uh, when I talk about it, just think like, yeah, but not really, because at the end, the rest of my career for United and the love I've got for this man, you know, is history, so no. But it's just like again, my past.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett1:13:05

       Hmm.

   27. PEPatrice Evra1:13:06

       Maybe my past cost me, you know, my starting eleven, but ...

   28. SBSteven Bartlett1:13:11

       Forgiveness. The topic of forgiveness.

   29. PEPatrice Evra1:13:14

       (laughs)

   30. SBSteven Bartlett1:13:15

       Um, Suarez. Suarez, um, in an altercation on the pitch, he called you Negrito. I was watching that game. Which is a, um, offensive word for, um, a Black person.That incident was a, um, was a bit of a media circus, wasn't it?
9. 1:13:51 – 1:26:19

   You and Luis Suarez

   1. PEPatrice Evra1:13:51

      "What did you say?" And he said again the N-word and he say, "Anyway, I don't speak with, uh, any N, the N-word." So I remember in that time, I was like ... This is, this is when I was, like, also proud of myself because I was talking to myself. Should I punch him? But Patrice, this is a Liverpool-Manchester, all the kids are watching this game. Uh, s- people won't understand. So I promise you the s- I had an amazing first half. The second half, I was just like, it was a process talking to my- don't do it. You know when you have like a, the devil and an angel? Don't do it, do it. Don't do it, do it. All the game. I wasn't in the game. And I play okay, it was fine. We draw, and after the game, I just sat and Ferguson saw me and he was like, "Patrice, uh, what's the matter?" You know, "You had a good game, what's the matter?" I say, "No," uh, David De Gea, I say, "Suarez call him a, a negrito." And he was like, "Patrice, let's go." He take me, we went to the refo- the referee. We tell him, he take note. But e- by the way, even in the, on the pitch, I said to the referee, "Did you hear what he just say? He called me with the N-word." "Come on, Patrice." "He call me with the N-word." "Play, play, play, we gonna deal with that later."

   2. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:05

      Hm.

   3. PEPatrice Evra1:15:07

      'Cause I forget to always mention that, and it's long time and every interview I never say that. And that referee, "We're gonna deal with that later." "Really, he call you that?" "Yes, he did." "Okay." So we went to the official, we tell him, he say, "Yeah, yeah, Patrice told me about that," so he was aware. So Ferguson like, kill him. "So you were aware and why you didn't send him off?" And da- da- ... "Yeah, okay, we gonna deal with that," and you know, to the English federation, so the next day, boom. Front page. Uh, Suarez, you know, abu- racially abused Patrice Evra. Wow, I didn't expect that. So I don't know how possible I start to become a liar, I start to become ... People in jail in Liverpool send many letter of they're going to kill me when they're gonna come out of jail. Uh, people start following me with my car. I had for three months, uh, 24 hours, like security, but can I be honest with you? Uh, my brothers and my family, they were, like, scared, but I was like, "Guys, we don't need that," because I'm from the street, so come on, we don't need protection. But the threat were real. That's why Man United they say, "Patrice, even if you don't need that, we need." So for, for three months, like, 24 hours and everything, so unbelievable. But the worst part is when, uh, we watch a game with all the player and Ferguson and we saw the Liverpool player came out with that shirt and, "We support Luis Suarez." And the worst part he was, like, he get banned. So it's not like they do it when, before he get the ban. He get banned because after he lie, he say, "You know, in my country, we use the word," like, I know they use negro, but not negrito. Negrito is the N-word. Negro is the color. And even I always say to people, "You don't have to call me by my color. My mum give me a name. I don't need to be ..." Anyway, so th- with the camera, they could see with his lips, like, he say the, the N-word. And they support him, and it was Kevin Dalglish. I remember I hate so much Kevin Dalglish to let this happen that day. And the karma, he get sacked after one month after that game. So I did a, a TV show with, uh, Jamie Carragher, and, uh, I promise you, I, Jamie, like, you know? We, we start talking and he say, "Patrice, I just would like to apologize about what's happening nine years ago. What we have done is wrong." I was in shock, seriously. I didn't expect that. I was like, "Wow, okay." He say, "We didn't know, you know, the club tell us to do that." And, and after that I receive, like, letter from the owner of Liverpool, uh, emails saying like, "We more s- we sorry, you're more than welcome here," and everything. "You can feel home." I sa- I will never feel home when I go to Liverpool.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett1:17:53

      Me neither. (laughs)

   5. PEPatrice Evra1:17:54

      Thank you for that. But it was so nice, and I know many of my friend, they were like, "Patrice, uh, um, you should, uh, you should forgive them." I say, "Guys, it's never, it's never too late. And I don't have any hate." And I, and I keep saying, "I can't call Luis Suarez a racist because I don't know him close enough to call him that way." But in that day, he used some racist word. And it get even worse for him when, about the hand shake. That's when I was like, "Okay, it's a disgrace." 'Cause even when I called my mum and my mum said, "Wait, Indeke, Patrice, you should forgive," and I remember that game was one of the most, like, topic was the hand shake.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:36

      Mm-hmm.

   7. PEPatrice Evra1:18:36

      It wasn't even Liverpool-Manchester-

   8. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:39

      About the game. The derby, yeah, I remember.

   9. PEPatrice Evra1:18:39

      That's when I see, like, it was bigger than the, that, that things was bigger than the game.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:44

       Mm-hmm.

   11. PEPatrice Evra1:18:45

       And when I put and he didn't I was like-

   12. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:47

       You put your hand out, he didn't shake it.

   13. PEPatrice Evra1:18:49

       Yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:49

       Yeah.

   15. PEPatrice Evra1:18:49

       And I was like, "I'm going to kill him now." I remember that game. I even take on Rio Ferdinand, you can see because I wanted to, to catch Suarez but he jumped so I take, like, Rio Ferdinand and use that pitch you when Rio Ferdinand he look like he's breaking his neck because I wasn't wanted to play the game. I just wanted to kill him.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett1:19:06

       Hm.

   17. PEPatrice Evra1:19:07

       And I have one story also, after all those episode, one day I was walking in the Manchester in Deansgate and, uh, my brother say, "Oh, it's Luis Suarez over there." I was with two of my brother. I look at him. I was like, "That's it. This is the moment." And he walk and behind him I saw his kid and his wife-And we wo- and I turned my back. I was like, "If you do something to him, you can't do this in front of his family." So, I don't regret it, because I think it will end up bad. And I didn't do nothing that day. I saw him when we play against, uh, Barcelona with Juventus in the final. I was talking with Neymar, he pass, he come, he shake my hand. He say, "You okay?" I say, "I'm okay." "You're okay?" So no beef, but we definitely no going to, going holiday- Hmm. (laughs) In our life, but yeah. Have you forgiven him? Yeah. Yeah. But because, like I say, that's when now we ... I want to talk a little bit about the racism. And, uh, like I say to people, it's about education. No one born as a racist person. And, you know, when you ... When the football now, they ban people when they have those racist comment or ... I don't think this is the solution, 'cause if you ban someone, you putting ... I know it's really sensitive, but you put him in a box, you don't resolve the matter. And even that person will even become more racist, and feeling more rejected. But where I come from, I've got friend they're not ashamed to tell me, "Patrice, I've got black friend and everything, but my daughter or my s- my, uh, son will never be with a black man, because my dad or my granddad will never accept it." So that's why I understand, you know, racists, you need to fight with your own parents. It's nothing to do with about religion. When it was the Paris attack, uh, everyone start to blaming the Muslim people, Islam. Uh, I did a post. I was on the plane. I say, "You know what?" And, uh, by the way, I grew up as a Catholic, but if you ask me, "What is your best religion right now?" is to be the best human being I can. I'm not a Catholic, I'm not a Muslim, but I can pray with Jewish people, with Muslim people, uh, Buddha, everything, because I respect every religion. But now, the religion, my religion is to be the best human being I can. Then, I did that post when I say, "I think it's not time to, to spread your anger, your, you know. Is we should pray for the people we lost." And by the way, I read the Quran. Islam is such a beautiful religion. It's about love and everything, so I really be- ... And it came from my heart. And I feel like I had to do it. My dad called me. "What you doing?" You know. "You don't know them. They are terrorists and everything." I said, "Dad, this is your opinion, but it's not mine." He put the phone down. We didn't speak for two weeks. He called me after two weeks. He say, "I'm sorry." Say, "Wow, you're a man now. You stood to your own opinion." I say, "Yes, Dad, and I won't change it." Like, you can't because one person do something, then all the people are the same. So that's why I like to give this ex- example, because sometime you have to stand up against your, you know, your own, your own father, even if you're scared of him, 'cause those people, the racist is, doesn't come like because they just become racist. It's because they've been taught. Mm-hmm. So if we want to change something, it's about the education, you know. And I have enough people pretending they want to fight against racism. Mm-hmm. And I will talk about massive, like, football industry. I give the example of the, that stupid Super League. (laughs) Super League, yeah. A project. That project didn't even start. We shut down that project in 24 hours. Oh, I remember. I watch on TV. My ex-teammate, the pundit, "He shouldn't have done," fighting, burning things. Like, I was like, "Wow." I was watching. I was like, "Oh my God, they are so unite, determinate." The president of the, the FIFA Tokyo, the web-fiv- fifa.com "Oh, they are snake, those, uh, owners and stuff." Like, wow, we should ... But I was like, "But why we don't have the same determination when we talk about racism, and especially in football?" Players getting abused every single game, but we don't stop- so don't pretend you want to do it when you don't. But the real reason, and me, I'm straight, and maybe I may irritate c- certain person. That Super League, you were touching their pocket. Racism? It's not about money. Everyone like don't care. Play on. You know, like even social media. I'm someone, I am on social media. I don't want any help from Instagram, uh, from Facebook, for every- because you can delete your comment, you can, like, block people, everything. And anyway, when I have racist comment, I will do a nice video when I'm eating a banana and things, because it really like ... When I was 17 years old, people were throwing real banana in my face when I was playing. So it's not like someone behind his computer can affect me. But this is Patrice. Mm-hmm. Other people, they're gonna read comment about them, they're gonna even suicide, you know, when we're talking about the mental health. So you have to explain me one things. When it's about the COVID-19, you get a flag straight away. But when it's about the racists, like, sometime you feel like the social media, they just let the, the raci- they spread the racism on the, in the, on their own platform. So stop pretending. If you want to do something, let's do it. But I know, until, you know, money is not involved- Gonna be a problem. ... things will difficult to be changed. Yeah. Keep the racists. They ask me to put the shirts. Many time I go to the warm-up, I didn't put that shirt because I don't ... It's fake. They, they ask me, like, to say no to the racism in front of the camera, many player. Respect, no to racism. But the player, they don't e- they don't even care, because they just, uh, they tell them to say that. Mm-hmm. Come, teach to people racism, saying those word. Now you ... I say silence is a crime, 'cause people lose their life because of that, you know?

Episode duration: 1:35:08