Patricia Bright: How She Made Her Millions | E91

Patricia Bright 0:00 This is like a therapy session. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 0:01 Patricia Bright, she's a creator, author, entrepreneur with an incredible story.

Patricia Bright 0:06 Growing up, my mum, she would take us to offices to clean the offices. And we'll go to school, and she would say, like, "Just don't tell anyone that you're working at five o'clock in the morning." You just go to school in the morning and act like everything was normal. There is pressure for influencers to speak up on every topic all the time, bearing in mind that my forte is makeup and clothing and finance, you know, to an extent. But we are not credible sources who know everything. We just don't. And I think it's really important for us to say, speaking up on stuff that you know nothing about is very, very dangerous. I had a stalker for like three years, and it was someone who would, like, just message me on all my platforms constantly, send emails, message family members. So I did a meet-and-greet, an event, and then they messaged me. It's like, "Ha ha, I was at your meet-and-greet." So I remember feeling so anxious. "You didn't see me. You looked so terrible in person. Next time I'm gonna do something."

Narrator 1:07 (instrumental music)

Steven Bartlett 1:12 Patricia Bright, she's a creator, author, entrepreneur, and a mother. And she has a remarkable, inspiring story. Growing up on a council estate, having her dad deported when she was just five years old, a Nigerian mother that came to this country doing cleaning jobs at night, and which she took Patricia along to with her. And that mother became a property mogul. And Patricia, she became a superstar in her own right. So it's no surprise that when I looked at the comments section on a previous podcast episode, a comment requesting Patricia Bright to sit here with me and to be on this podcast had over 100 upvotes. And now I know why. Her attitude, perspective, ambition, self-belief, resilience is incredible. So without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself.

Narrator 2:10 (instrumental music)

Steven Bartlett 2:13 Patricia.

Patricia Bright 2:18 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 2:18 We share one big similarity with our childhoods e- and the fact that we both had Nigerian mothers.

Patricia Bright 2:25 We did?

Steven Bartlett 2:25 We did, yeah.

Patricia Bright 2:26 Okay. I didn't know that.

Steven Bartlett 2:27 Really?

Patricia Bright 2:28 No, I didn't actually.

Steven Bartlett 2:29 Well, I still have a Nigerian mother, so I should

Patricia Bright 2:31 Both had. (laughs) Yeah. But yeah, we did.

Steven Bartlett 2:32 We both have Niger- Nigerian mothers. And, um, I believe both of our Nigerian mothers moved from Nigeria to the UK.

Patricia Bright 2:38 Yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 2:39 Um, so they, they were both born in Nigeria, so their, you know, authentic roots are there. But, you know, tell me about the rest of your childhood. I only had one Nigerian parent.

Patricia Bright 2:48 Right, okay.

Steven Bartlett 2:49 I hear you had, you had two.

Patricia Bright 2:50 Yeah, I had both my mum and dad, um, growing up. Um, but my dad was actually deported. So he got deported when I was probably like six years old, and I actually remember the experience of his deportation as being something very traumatic. In hindsight as an adult, I recognize that. But growing up, you know, with an African mom, African dad, our culture was just a part of us on an everyday basis. But also I was from South London as well, so I kind of grew up in Battersea, and I came from a very diverse school, but I always went back to, like, a very African home. And, um, yeah, I think it really shaped me to who I, I am today.

Steven Bartlett 3:32 In what ways?

Patricia Bright 3:34 I think it's that kind of... (laughs) I'm gonna say aggression.

Steven Bartlett 3:38 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 3:38 There's something about Nigerians out of all other, uh, people from, say, the diaspora, um, that I think means that we're quite aggressive and very passionate. Let's not say aggressive, let's say passionate. We're intense, we know what we want, and there's also a huge sense of, like, pride as well that we can do anything and we're good. And I feel very privileged that I had a lot of that, "You're great, you'll do well, you'll be successful, don't worry about what's going on. Don't s- don't see reality as a definition of a limitation for yourself." And I think that that's really made me do a lot of things that supposedly I shouldn't be able to do. But that kind of upbringing made me be like, "No, I can do it. It's fine." It was always fine. I watched my mum do a lot of things that would be considered impossible for her, and she just did it with ease and chaos in my (laughs) opinion now. But somehow she kind of achieved those things, and I would feel very privileged to kind of grow up with that sense of confidence instilled in me, which I think is really cultural as a Nigerian.

Steven Bartlett 4:47 And I bet she didn't complain either.

Patricia Bright 4:49 Oh, there was no complaining. She did... She just got on with it. Like, even when my dad was deported, she just got on with it. And there were times that, you know, growing up, my mum used to work on the trains, so she was one of the train cleaners. And my sister's three and I'm five. She'd go out n- at night and leave us because there was no one to, like, look after her kids. She'll go out, she'll clean, she'll clean offices. She would take us to offices to clean the offices when we were younger. And, um, she just did it. And we'll go to school, and she would say, like, "Just don't tell anyone that you're working at five o'clock in the morning." (laughs) She... Obviously you're not gonna go to school and tell people, "Oh, I've just been at Foxton's (laughs) like, cleaning and helping my mum out." You'd just go to school in the morning and act like everything was normal. Um, but no, there wasn't any complaining, and she just kind of got on with it.

Steven Bartlett 5:37 And do you think... You know, you referred to that as being, if that gave you kind of confidence that you could do anything. But for me it sounds a lot like because that immigrant story is so connected with, like, survival. And, and that's why I talked about, like, she didn't complain, 'cause it's, like, a lot of complaint comes from privilege almost, doesn't it?... when you-

Patricia Bright 5:54 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 5:54 ... when you- when you feel like you have a choice.

Patricia Bright 5:55 Yeah. But what's really, also really interesting is that some people still feel lucky. The fact that she wasn't deported when my dad was deported, she probably felt, "Oh, my God. I'm so lucky I got to kinda stay here." And, um, why would you complain when you feel like you're in a better position for yourself and your children in the long term? So, yeah. She didn't have the privilege of wanting to complain but I think she was really, like, happy to still be here. Though she had to work hard, I think she knew that she had a lot of opportunity while being here. And she retrained and she, she became a nurse and then sh- she bought properties and then she retired in her 40s. Like, I love England in that it's kind of like the land of opportunity for those who really wanna, like, you know, work out what to do and use it. So, I think she could see that that was possible for her.

Steven Bartlett 6:48 And you talked about that, that day when you were six years old when you're, there's a knock on the door at nighttime.

Patricia Bright 6:52 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 6:52 At nighttime?

Patricia Bright 6:53 It might've been a- at night. It might've been in the middle of the day, to be honest. What I do remember is, like, literally about four burly police officers, officers kind of walking in, um, shouting, like screaming, like and there's m- me as a five-year-old, my sister as a three-year-old, my mum in tears, and then literally dragging my dad out of the house. And it was like, "Your dad's gone," like at that one moment, and it, we didn't see him again for seven years afterwards. So it was like, I, at the time, I didn't, I never processed it. It's only in the last year or two I've processed how kind of maybe traumatic that kind of experience would've been for me as a child. And I think it's also made me really be fearful of loss, which is why I work so hard, so that things like that don't happen, hopefully, to me and my family in the future.

Steven Bartlett 7:46 So, in the last couple of years, you've had time to reflect on that and you've, you, I- I guess you're saying... Did you ch- choose to reflect on that, or go through the journey of reflecting on that because you could see things in your behavior that you thought, "Maybe that's connected?"

Patricia Bright 7:59 I didn't even recognize it. I knew that there was, like I work really hard, like I'm really intense and I'm always like, "Let's just keep going." I'm always like that. And until I literally, you know, started to have therapy, I was like, "Where does that come from?" And it was that then got uncovered in my therapy sessions that, actually, the, maybe one of the triggers for me t- like working hard, was bec- because of that, maybe fear of loss. Um, and obviously there's other aspects as well. I just-

Steven Bartlett 8:27 Hmm.

Patricia Bright 8:27 ... like hustling.

Steven Bartlett 8:28 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 8:28 That's fun. But there was also maybe this thing here that was one of my drivers that I've actually used in a positive way. But it's also important to kind of reflect on, like dealing with things like that. And I think that I came from a place of, "Well, it happened. That just happened, it's fine. Onto the next." Whereas like when you sit down and talk about it, you're like, "Oh, (laughs) that's, that's not great." Like, that's not a-

Steven Bartlett 8:51 No. Five years old as well.

Patricia Bright 8:52 That's not a great situation.

Steven Bartlett 8:53 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 8:54 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 8:54 It must have taught you something about something, even if that lesson was wrong. That's the way I, I think about it. I'm like, "That must have taught you something about the nature of life." Because at five years old you're learning what the world means and what this means and that power and your dad and your mum.

Patricia Bright 9:05 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 9:05 It must have taught you some lesson about something, even if that lesson was wrong, right?

Patricia Bright 9:08 Yeah, exactly. I mean, I didn't even realize that it could've been teaching me something.

Steven Bartlett 9:13 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 9:13 Like, no idea. But maybe that stuff happened.

Steven Bartlett 9:19 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 9:19 That's life. You're not really in control of anything. Um, but things like that can't stop you.

Steven Bartlett 9:26 Hmm. Yeah. And it, I mean, yeah, I think if my parents were s- snatched out of my house, I definitely wouldn't feel safe in-

Patricia Bright 9:33 Yeah. Ooh.

Steven Bartlett 9:34 I wouldn't feel safe. You know, because th- that's, parents represent the foundation of like safety for them, you know. That this is my house and these are my parents-

Patricia Bright 9:42 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 9:42 ... and th- they just are.

Patricia Bright 9:43 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 9:43 And then one of those things is snatched out. Y- it makes you, I guess insecure about ever feeling too safe, to some degree.

Patricia Bright 9:49 Yeah. Yeah. But I think, for me, m- uh maybe mine was that I can't rely on the system or other people to secure my safety, maybe. And so I kind of, I'm always trying to make sure I secure myself with the actions that I take, 'cause those are the only things I'm in control of.

Steven Bartlett 10:08 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 10:08 So I'm very much like, "I'll do it myself. I'll sort it out myself. Oh, don't worry, because you never know what's gonna happen there." And I am like that as a person.

Steven Bartlett 10:18 Does that make you paranoid about, I guess, everything? At all, professionally?

Patricia Bright 10:25 No.

Steven Bartlett 10:26 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 10:26 Like it makes me really objective.

Steven Bartlett 10:28 Okay.

Patricia Bright 10:28 I'm, like I'm a pure realist. Like, something's probably gonna go wrong at some point in time, and that's fine.

Steven Bartlett 10:35 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 10:35 Like, how are you gonna handle that? Like, it's almost like I prepare for something to go wrong, in a way. This is like a therapy session. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 10:43 No. Yeah. I mean, this is, this is pretty much what this podcast is, right?

Patricia Bright 10:46 Okay, great. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 10:47 Yeah. (laughs)

Patricia Bright 10:47 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 10:47 Well, no. It ch- I just find, I f- I think when I started this podcast, I, I, um, I was anticipating to find these like wild differences between everybody.

Patricia Bright 10:55 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 10:55 But in fact I found the opposite, which is that, fundamentally, um, we're all very, very similar-

Patricia Bright 11:00 Right.

Steven Bartlett 11:01 ... when it relates to things like insecurity and safety in childhood. And then, um, obviously because in many respects you've, you've gone on to create a career for yourself that is so different from so many, it would, sometimes you think, "Well, what, what was the initial catalyst that caused that person to be different?" What was the like, the envi- it's almost like a cauldron. Wh- what was the furnace they were like scalded in-

Patricia Bright 11:21 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 11:21 ... to make them then more hardworking or obsessive or whatever, and, um-

Patricia Bright 11:26 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 11:26 Yeah. I guess, I mean, n- having a Nigerian mother, I, I already know-

Patricia Bright 11:29 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 11:29 ... (laughs) wha- what that part is like.

Patricia Bright 11:31 You could call it a cauldron. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 11:32 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Patricia Bright 11:33 Definitely. Definitely.

Steven Bartlett 11:33 But that, that work ethic piece as well, which, um, is quite absent in this culture, um, and that, uh, the, you know, th- what we talked about, complaining. You referred to this as the land of opportunity.

Patricia Bright 11:44 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 11:44 How does that make you feel when you see people who have lots of... A, a, a much more, let's say, financially privileged start to life, um, and they-... don't fully understand the opp-

Patricia Bright 11:59 Hmm.

Steven Bartlett 12:00 ... the land of opportunity?

Patricia Bright 12:02 So my first thought is, like, eye roll, like, "Ugh, there you go, moaning or complaining." But I also realize that there's so many different types of privileges that people have that can actually provide them, like, a long-term foundation. I think that y- if you d- some people have financial privilege, but they have no love. They have no hope. They have no, no one to tell them that they're good. Whereas I may not have had the financial privileges, but I had a mom who was so loving and so caring and so encouraging that I was in a better position just because I had that. So I don't wanna ever tell someone that, "You're privileged because of X, Y, Z." Maybe in other areas, they didn't have the support that they needed to actually, um, spur them on to be the best version of themselves. Um, so I try not to be that judgmental anymore because there's so many different categorizations of privilege.

Steven Bartlett 12:59 And at some point, you know, your, you said your mum, she retrained herself.

Patricia Bright 13:02 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 13:02 She became a nurse, which is, uh, amazing.

Patricia Bright 13:04 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 13:05 Um, and off you went to university.

Patricia Bright 13:08 I did, yeah. I went off to university.

Steven Bartlett 13:10 MMU, we have a similarity again.

Patricia Bright 13:12 Oh, really?

Steven Bartlett 13:12 Yeah. Isn't that crazy?

Patricia Bright 13:12 Oh my gosh, I love that. Yeah. Uh-

Steven Bartlett 13:14 Yeah. I lost it one lecture, but...

Patricia Bright 13:15 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 13:16 I was there for all three years, but I just dropped out. Yeah.

Patricia Bright 13:19 Okay, great. Um, we have that in common 'cause I, I was barely there, but I was... I had a great social life.

Steven Bartlett 13:25 So amazing.

Patricia Bright 13:25 I was really enjoying.

Steven Bartlett 13:26 Manchester's great.

Patricia Bright 13:26 It's great, yeah. Yeah. No, I went to university after, like, leaving home, and I was so ready to, like, get out of my house and get out of London and try something new and then find myself in, like, a new city. I actually went in to do fashion marketing and to my parents' despair, because again, as an African, you don't do fashion. That's not, that's not a real course. You do accounting, you do law, you do business, you don't do fashion marketing. Um, but I think I've always had this kind of more creative or creative streak as well as rebellious streak as well. Like, I'm gonna do what I wanna do. Um, but funny, I kind of went there to do fashion, but changed my course to accounting and finance-

Steven Bartlett 14:11 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 14:11 ... because I realized that there was no financial hope (laughs) in fashion.

Steven Bartlett 14:15 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 14:15 I was like, "Oh, I'm not gonna be broke when I leave university. Hell no." So I, I changed.

Steven Bartlett 14:21 Purely on that, on that basis that you...

Patricia Bright 14:23 Purely on that basis. I didn't love my course, and then when they were doing internship opportunities, they were paying interns 8K a year, 10K a year and s- like graduate starting salaries we- were like 8, 8K. I was like, "I d- I'm not rich enough to do this, no way." And then I found out about accounting and finance and they, they were like the banks that had really good opportunities and I was really good at the accounting because we had a module, um, in the fashion marketing and I would... I smashed it and I was like, "I'll do accounting and finance."

Steven Bartlett 14:56 Wow. You said at this point that you and your parents, you know, typical Nigerian parents. My mom was the same. When I, actually when I dropped out is when I got hell but, uh-

Patricia Bright 15:02 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 15:02 ... 'cause, you know, that's even worse. Um-

Patricia Bright 15:04 Yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 15:05 Rather, r- rather you're doing something-

Patricia Bright 15:06 Uh, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 15:06 ... at university just... I feel like-

Patricia Bright 15:07 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 15:07 ... part of it's just, just so she can tell her friends or something.

Patricia Bright 15:09 Oh, facts.

Steven Bartlett 15:10 It's like... Do you know what I mean? It's just like, it's like, "I'm going to university so that you get a degree as being a good mother." (laughs)

Patricia Bright 15:15 Yes. Yeah, oh, and it's a fact.

Steven Bartlett 15:17 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 15:17 "My child is at university," is what-

Steven Bartlett 15:19 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 15:19 ... they tell all the aunties.

Steven Bartlett 15:20 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 15:20 Like, it's very important.

Steven Bartlett 15:22 Yeah. And at that point, your dad was... he was back in your life?

Patricia Bright 15:25 Yes. So by the time I was, um, about 12, he came back, um, so fundamentally they fa- they defined his deportation as an illegal deportation. But we... I remember going to the court cases and my mum pleading with, you know, social services and lawyers and just people, "Help us, help us get my, our dad back. Like, how do we do this?" And then we went to the court case and she's like, "I don't know why this man was deported. Like, gavel down, bring him back." I was like, "That took seven years for you guys to do that." But he got back and, like, he just started again, worked as a security guard, did all of that kind of stuff, and then ended up working in the Home Office-

Steven Bartlett 16:07 (laughs) Really?

Patricia Bright 16:08 ... for immigration, which is so random because he was, you know, deported.

Steven Bartlett 16:13 Are you pissed off about that? The fact that you lost your dad for seven years?

Patricia Bright 16:18 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 16:18 For what w- what sounds like it was a bit of a mistake or just negligence. Or at least a lack of empathy to take a dad from their kids for what?

Patricia Bright 16:27 Yeah, ooh, am I... I'm not pissed off. Maybe I haven't processed it enough to be pissed off. It just felt like it is what it is and this is how it went. Um, I felt more upset for my mum in that I know how difficult it was for her to, like, have us and have responsibilities and deal with, like, managing... This court case, she managed it her entire self. She represented herself 'cause she didn't have money for, like, lawyers and stuff. So she was under a lot of stress, but she did it and she did other stuff as well. So that was really the main thing that kind of upset me, I'd say.

Steven Bartlett 17:08 When your dad come back, did you have a relationship with him?

Patricia Bright 17:10 It was weird.

Steven Bartlett 17:11 Okay, okay.

Patricia Bright 17:11 It was so weird. It's like, "This is my dad." Um, "Hi Dad."

Steven Bartlett 17:15 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 17:15 Like, how, how do we have a relationship-

Steven Bartlett 17:17 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 17:18 ... with a, a man we haven't seen for seven years? But, um, you know, he was the kind of w- stoic African dad, so I, I remember he always gave me an envelope with money at the beginning of term. Like, "Well done. Look after yourself." "Okay." "How's the weather? Are you reading your books?" "Yes, Dad. Yes, Dad." "Okay, good." Like, it was that kind of relationship, but I knew it was, it was still caring. It was the way he kind of communicated his ca- care for me, which is that envelope of cash.

Steven Bartlett 17:47 And that's probably like a Nigerian generational cycle of like male figures-

Patricia Bright 17:51 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 17:52 ... just being a bit, you know... (laughs)

Patricia Bright 17:53 A bit standoffish-

Steven Bartlett 17:54 Standoffish, yeah.

Patricia Bright 17:54 ... but caring.

Steven Bartlett 17:55 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 17:55 And when they ask you certain questions, whether it's about the we- weather or your studies, "How are... How is your studies going?" Like, that's just...They don't really-

Steven Bartlett 18:04 That worked, yeah.

Patricia Bright 18:04 ... know what else to ask you.

Steven Bartlett 18:06 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 18:06 But them asking you that is, is powerful.

Steven Bartlett 18:09 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 18:09 Like, my dad calls me every day, he says, "Hi, how are you?" "Fine, Dad." "How are the kids?" "Fine, Dad." "Okay, bye." Like-

Steven Bartlett 18:15 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 18:15 It just, it's that checking in-

Steven Bartlett 18:16 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 18:16 ... which is really, I like it. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 18:19 Hmm. I think that's probably also just a male, a male issue. I think m- men typically aren't as, um, emotionally open so they, they don't build that, you know, 'cause vulnerability takes, well, um, connection seems to be built on vulnerability and they seem to have a bit of a guard up. I, my dad is definitely exactly the same, like-

Patricia Bright 18:35 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 18:35 ... his questions are so, like, you know, just surface level.

Patricia Bright 18:38 High level.

Steven Bartlett 18:38 Yes. "Are you okay?" "Yes." "Okay. Goodbye."

Patricia Bright 18:41 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 18:41 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 18:42 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 18:42 Yeah. "Let me know if you're not okay."

Patricia Bright 18:44 Yeah, exactly.

Steven Bartlett 18:46 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 18:46 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 18:46 Um, so MMU-

Patricia Bright 18:47 Okay.

Steven Bartlett 18:47 ... you go there, you feel a bit out of place.

Patricia Bright 18:49 Yeah, quite out of place.

Steven Bartlett 18:52 What do you mean by that?

Patricia Bright 18:54 Because I'd never left, like, London and I, like, I had to make new friends and I didn't know anyone and I wasn't really good at it and I, I couldn't really find my tribe very early on. And I was on a ca- a campus really far away. I was on the Didsbury campus.

Steven Bartlett 19:11 Oh, yeah. Out of town, yeah.

Patricia Bright 19:11 Like, that was... Yeah, out of town, right?

Steven Bartlett 19:13 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 19:13 And then there was, like, the main campus for Manchester University that everyone was at.

Steven Bartlett 19:18 That's where I was.

Patricia Bright 19:19 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 19:19 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 19:19 I wasn't there, right? Yeah, you were in this spot, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 19:22 There was a party, it was unbelievable.

Patricia Bright 19:23 It was great. And I'm in Didsbury, right?

Steven Bartlett 19:25 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 19:25 I was like, "Come on." Um, and I actually ended up, like, moving out of my halls of residence.

Steven Bartlett 19:30 Really?

Patricia Bright 19:30 And crashing with a number of girls, um, in that main campus. And I would move from room to room. So once one friend got annoyed with me after two weeks-

Steven Bartlett 19:40 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 19:40 ... another friend would stay with me, I'd stay with them for two weeks and then I'd just go back and forth like a nomad for a bit.

Steven Bartlett 19:48 And you, you changed course to accounting.

Patricia Bright 19:51 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 19:52 In hindsight, how important was it? How, like, pivotal was it for you to have an understanding of finance for everything that would then come in your, in your career? Because I feel like, I feel like finance is such a neglected topic for, for kids. I wish someone had told me about fucking credit scores before I smashed mine.

Patricia Bright 20:10 Right, um... (laughs) Okay, so the moving role was pivotal for my life. Like, it set me up on a completely different trajectory that I, I wouldn't have even been aware of because off the back of that role, I worked at, you know, all the top four, four companies in the world in finance. I worked at Merrill Lynch and Deloitte Consulting, banks, all of that stuff. I would have never done that if I'd stayed in fashion. When it came to it from a personal finance perspective, didn't prepare me at all.

Steven Bartlett 20:37 Really?

Patricia Bright 20:38 Not a clue. I owed the tax man money. I, I, I got my taxes wrong. I had to pay fines. I had no clue what I was actually doing. I had the degree, I had the 2:1. "Great, you've passed. How do you actually apply financial knowledge to running your own business, to your everyday personal taxes?" Like, I didn't have a clue. Spent the money, bought bags, made extra money on the side, spent it all, owed the tax man and I wasn't prepared.

Steven Bartlett 21:08 Fucking hell.

Patricia Bright 21:09 (laughs) Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 21:09 Well, I mean that's, uh, a great advert for Manchester Metropolitan University.

Patricia Bright 21:13 (laughs) Maybe it was just me.

Steven Bartlett 21:14 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 21:14 Maybe I was just, like, young and dumb. But, like, it helped me from a career perspective, but a lot of the financial courses out there don't help people be better themselves with money.

Steven Bartlett 21:25 And that psychology point, 'cause money is such an emotional thing, especially as, like, an immigrant.

Patricia Bright 21:29 Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 21:30 You know what I mean?

Patricia Bright 21:30 Exactly, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 21:31 And you come, and you grew up on a council estate, right? Growing up on a council estate, getting money-

Patricia Bright 21:35 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 21:35 ... dangerous concoction for-

Patricia Bright 21:36 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 21:37 ... like, getting a Lamborghini or fucking up some Chanel bag or some shit, right?

Patricia Bright 21:40 (laughs) Exactly. But, like, I grew up on a council estate and then my mum bought her council house, right, for 17 grand, sold that house for 250 grand.

Steven Bartlett 21:53 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 21:53 Used that money to buy a... To build a property empire and that's how she ended up retiring. So when I was in Manchester, I was actually... My mum bought, like, four houses in Manchester, so I was doing property management while being a student. So I was still-

Steven Bartlett 22:07 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 22:07 ... like, running business-y stuff, like, as a student. So even though I had that, came from the council background, I'd seen kind of, like, how hustle and money could kind of be made and that I didn't have to be broke forever if I was kind of smart about it.

Steven Bartlett 22:21 Mm-hmm. Your mum sounds like a right beast. She sounds-

Patricia Bright 22:24 She's wild.

Steven Bartlett 22:26 She bought four houses while you were in Manchester?

Patricia Bright 22:27 Yeah. No, how many? No, three.

Steven Bartlett 22:29 Oh, wow.

Patricia Bright 22:30 Yeah. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 22:31 So different. Yeah.

Patricia Bright 22:33 (laughs) Yeah, but they were... Oh, no, I can't swear. They, they weren't great.

Steven Bartlett 22:36 You can't swear?

Patricia Bright 22:36 Can I swear?

Steven Bartlett 22:37 Of course you can swear. Have you not heard of me?

Patricia Bright 22:38 They were shitholes basically. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 22:39 Oh, okay.

Patricia Bright 22:39 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 22:39 Well, that was still, I mean, you know-

Patricia Bright 22:41 Yeah. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 22:41 She, she was just in it for the flip. Um-

Patricia Bright 22:43 Oh, yeah, exactly.

Steven Bartlett 22:44 Yeah. So you start at some point blogging while at university and, and why did you turn to blogging? Why, why was that a compelling path?

Patricia Bright 22:52 Blogging, vlogging...

Steven Bartlett 22:54 Vlogging, blogging.

Patricia Bright 22:54 I kind of went into it because I kind of had, like, a friendship fallout and I became a bit of a loner. Like, I didn't have a big social group. Like, people would go out without me and, like, I would live with a group of girls and they would all go out together and I'd be, like, left at home by myself. So I, I found, like, online communities. So I was part of different forums. Before Reddit was Reddit, before YouTube existed, there were, like, forums where girls would talk to each other about beauty and makeup. And I'd spend hours, like, writing to these girls across the world and sending them pictures. And there used to... Before Instagram, there was Focky, there was all these platforms where we were communicating. And then, um, some of the girls would send videos to each other of, like, their new hair and their new makeup. Like, so, so random. And then YouTube had just launched, it was like, "This is a great way to send videos to each other." And so I kind of got sucked up in commu... I mean communicating with all the people that I met online because my real life wasn't that great.

Steven Bartlett 23:58 And I guess when you started on YouTube, you never, never thought it was anything more than a...

Patricia Bright 24:02 Oh, no, it wasn't a thing. At the time of me, like, watching YouTube and kind of creating on the platform, there wasn't actually that many people on there. Um, and so, like, little artists could go viral and there'd be... Like, there was a song, Chocolate Rain. I don't know if you guys remember that.

Steven Bartlett 24:19 Oh, I remember. With the, the Black guy with the hand things?

Patricia Bright 24:20 Yeah, like...

Steven Bartlett 24:21 The... Yeah.

Patricia Bright 24:22 Yeah, that was, like-... mind-blowingly amazing.

Steven Bartlett 24:25 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 24:25 And then, were, there was Michelle Phan. She was like the main beauty girl that was really like killing it. So it was such a small little ecosystem that wasn't a business, but it was genuinely about, like, connecting and talking to other people online.

Steven Bartlett 24:39 Why did you do so well, in hindsight, on YouTube?

Patricia Bright 24:44 Honestly, length of time. Like I was just doing it for (laughs) a really long time, and I was very transparent. Like I was so transparent. I was putting a lot of information out there. Um, I wasn't that strategic with it, but I loved talking to people online like they were literally my friends, and I used it a bit like a, a online diary in a way very early, uh, on. Um, but it wasn't like a full-time thing. I was like interning and wo- working. Um, but I think eventually I got really strategic about it, and that's when I saw like more growth or huge growth.

Steven Bartlett 25:23 Um, y- you were saying that, you know, you first started, um, like the online forums and stuff at a time when you'd like fallen out with your flatmates and-

Patricia Bright 25:30 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 25:31 ... um, I guess from what it sounds like YouTube was giving you that sense of like community, I guess, and ... but you weren't getting in the real world?

Patricia Bright 25:38 Fact. Yes. Definitely. I didn't have like a huge social life after a while, um, after the fallout, and I had so much solace with just this (laughs) online community. I never felt lonely 'cause I could log in and there'd be someone on there, and I could read all the forum updates and talk to the girls who were into the things that I was into. They were all over the world. It was just really nice to, like, have friends on My Friends.

Steven Bartlett 26:03 You referred to the fallout as if it was a really pivotal moment in your life.

Patricia Bright 26:08 Uh, it wasn't, it wasn't, uh, it wasn't that pivotal. But it's quite hard when you're at uni and, like, your friends are off doing stuff and, like, meeting people and then you're, you don't have anything to do or they, they're not talking to you. It feels like a big thing. In, in real life, it's really not a big thing.

Steven Bartlett 26:25 Nothing. Yeah.

Patricia Bright 26:25 Like, but at the time it was like, "I'm so lonely. I'll go online." (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 26:29 Okay.

Patricia Bright 26:29 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 26:30 Well, wow. Good thing you did.

Patricia Bright 26:31 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 26:32 What a journey. And you say

Steven Bartlett 26:33 consistency, you point to consistency as being the real-

Patricia Bright 26:36 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 26:36 ... um, factor to your success, but s- consistency must come from, you know, en- enjoying it. 'Cause there, there'll, there'll be a lot of people listening to this thinking, "I wanna be a YouTuber." I mean, everybody seems to wanna be a YouTuber these days.

Patricia Bright 26:45 Yes. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 26:46 But the insanity to do it as long as you did without the, um, guarantee-

Patricia Bright 26:52 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 26:53 ... of money-

Patricia Bright 26:54 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 26:55 ... must've come from somewhere. Uh-

Patricia Bright 26:56 There was no guarantee of money.

Steven Bartlett 26:58 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 26:58 It was a hobby. Like if you're a painter, you like painting at the weekend, you're gonna paint anyway. Whether someone pays you for your art or not, you just enjoy doing it. So I just enjoyed making videos that other girls watch and I could talk to the other girls. So I didn't get paid for like four years, but I was always uploading every weekend.

Steven Bartlett 27:17 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 27:17 It was my hobby. Like it wasn't, "This is gonna be my new job," which is why I even struggle with it now in that I really wanna enjoy it in the same way that I always enjoyed it, and do I need to look for a new hobby, and is now YouTube my job? Like, oh. I find it really hard to kind of balance the fact that this thing that was my, my escape is kind of like my job now.

Steven Bartlett 27:41 Mm-hmm. There's a, we ... I was talking to one of the guests on the podcast a couple weeks ago about, um, the study where when someone gets paid to do a task they used to love doing, they lose motivation for it.

Patricia Bright 27:49 Hmm.

Steven Bartlett 27:50 And it's just m- mental. They, they do this study where they give people this game. The people enjoying doing the game, they then say, "We're gonna ask you ch- to do the game again, but this time you're gonna get paid." The other group don't get paid, and the group that got paid to do the thing they just enjoyed doing lose motivation.

Patricia Bright 28:05 (gasps)

Steven Bartlett 28:05 Doesn't it make a lot of sense?

Patricia Bright 28:06 You two stop paying me. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 28:07 No. Yeah. (laughs)

Patricia Bright 28:08 No, I'm joking. No.

Steven Bartlett 28:09 Wait.

Patricia Bright 28:09 I like those checks.

Steven Bartlett 28:10 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 28:10 Um, that is insane.

Steven Bartlett 28:12 It's cr- You lose internal motivation-

Patricia Bright 28:15 Oh my gosh.

Steven Bartlett 28:15 ... when it becomes, when, when some of the r- um, reason for doing it becomes extrinsic, monetary.

Patricia Bright 28:22 (gasps)

Steven Bartlett 28:22 So, and, and this is a, you know, it's a wise-

Patricia Bright 28:25 Oh my gosh.

Steven Bartlett 28:26 It's tough, isn't it?

Patricia Bright 28:27 It's really tough because-

Steven Bartlett 28:29 People are like, "Oh my God." Like, "What a privileged conversation." (laughs)

Patricia Bright 28:32 But i- i- it's not 'cause like say imagine someone's like a, a darts player or something, right? But eventually once they get into the competitive sports of darts, maybe it becomes a bit more stressful. Maybe they don't-

Steven Bartlett 28:43 100%.

Patricia Bright 28:44 ... enjoy it as much. Maybe the, the, the challenge of doing it is now I've gotta perform for my management and the, the, the crew or whatever. I don't know if-

Steven Bartlett 28:54 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 28:54 ... there's a darts crew. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 28:56 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 28:56 I just made that up.

Steven Bartlett 28:57 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 28:57 But that becomes like, I don't know, more pressure than-

Steven Bartlett 29:00 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 29:01 ... the person who just wanted to play darts on a Saturday night would feel.

Steven Bartlett 29:04 Can you feel that?

Patricia Bright 29:06 No. No. B- the reason being is that I'm, I try to frame what I do as I've accepted that I have a huge desire to create stuff. Right? That's it. So as long as I focus on this process is creation, this process is creation, I'll be fine. And that might mean saying no to work and no to sponsorships for a season so I can at least feel that creation. 'Cause it, I'm very much like, "How do I feel about this?" Which is kinda bad, but also-

Steven Bartlett 29:37 Ah.

Patricia Bright 29:37 ... it's allowed me to do what I'm doing.

Steven Bartlett 29:39 Feels like a good long-term strategy.

Patricia Bright 29:41 Yeah. I guess so.

Steven Bartlett 29:42 Right? Because if you're not asking that question in the short term, "How do I feel about this?"

Patricia Bright 29:45 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 29:45 So many people, and the fact that I think the guest that just sat in that chair last, um, you end up gradually becoming someone you never intended to be and ending-

Patricia Bright 29:55 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 29:55 ... somewhere you never intended to go.

Patricia Bright 29:57 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 29:57 So that constant asking of that question, "How do I feel about this today-"

Patricia Bright 30:01 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 30:01 ... which I, as you alluded to, means turning down money sometimes-

Patricia Bright 30:04 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 30:04 ... but, you know-

Patricia Bright 30:05 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 30:05 ... thinking longer term about what you're doing and why you're doing it-

Patricia Bright 30:07 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 30:07 I think is so critical.

Patricia Bright 30:08 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 30:09 So critically important. (paper rust) You know, the thing that had the biggest positive impact on me sticking to the gym has been this change in mindset. And I've talked about this extensively on this podcast about how I used to view my goals in the gym as being super superficial and attached to a season, to summer, looking good for summer. And that, the shift came in me when I started asking myself this question, and I started viewing life as one season. So I'd say to myself, "If, if life is to be one season, then what can I do sustainably over the next 50 years? What are the healthy habits that I could maintain?" And that moves you from a place of intensity to consistency. And one of the things that has really helped me get in great shape is the ready-to-drink Huel in the bottles, as you all know. I've had them for three to four years. I've had two today alone. But also, Huel's brand new protein product, I've completely finished the salted caramel one and I'm now starting my journey with the banana milkshake, and it just tastes amazing. And the crazy thing is, it's 105 calories. Some people historically, you know, when we, when we t- think about protein shakes, we look at the calorie number and we see 300 calories. It's 105 calories. You get all of your vitamins and minerals, and it's 20 grams of protein. For me, this might be the best product that Huel have ever created, and in terms of the results, well, they speak for themself.

Steven Bartlett 31:24 (page turns) You know, we've got two guests that have come to watch this podcast today, and Sophia, I said, "Sophia..." You know, she's, she's followed you for some time. I said, "Sophia, if you could ask Patricia any question, what would it be?" She said to me, um, how did she find the confidence to make the leap from that sort of corporate career to going full-time with this thing called YouTube?

Patricia Bright 31:45 So for me, my confidence came from an Excel spreadsheet.

Steven Bartlett 31:48 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 31:48 So I am not a risk-taker. I'm more of a steady and stable person. But I did a bit of maths, I did a bit of a projection. I looked at what my long-term potential, um, earnings and lifestyle would look like if I stayed in the banking industry, and then I looked at what my numbers were looking like, you know, if I stayed as a creator, where could I take it. And even at that time, I had no clue I could get to where I am today. But the numbers looked healthy enough, so I was like, "Okay, I'll, I'll take the leap. Even if I do it for two years, it could be okay." Um, and I didn't just jump out. I kind of, um, took a toe dip in and I quit my job, but then I took another job that was part-time so I could make content and have a job as well.

Steven Bartlett 32:39 And you call your mum and you say, "I'm quitting my job."

Patricia Bright 32:42 I didn't tell her.

Steven Bartlett 32:43 No, that's smart.

Patricia Bright 32:43 I didn't tell my mum, I didn't tell anybody. "What? You've quit your big banking job? Oh, hell no. I could never do that." So I, I knew my parents would be worried and scared.

Steven Bartlett 32:54 Should we tell them now?

Patricia Bright 32:55 No.

Steven Bartlett 32:57 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 32:57 (laughs) They, they know, they know now.

Steven Bartlett 32:58 Or they figured?

Patricia Bright 32:58 It's like, "Mum, I left my job."

Steven Bartlett 33:01 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 33:01 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 33:01 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 33:01 They barely know what I do right now.

Steven Bartlett 33:03 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 33:03 They're like... I do this thing on the internet. They're like, "Oh, well done. Well done."

Steven Bartlett 33:07 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 33:07 It's fine.

Steven Bartlett 33:07 Yeah, yeah. Same with my mum.

Patricia Bright 33:08 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 33:08 But yeah, so you, you made that, you took that leap into YouTube. Um, wa- was there a moment where you thought, "Fucking hell, this is, this is moving, this is..." Or was it just one step at a time?

Patricia Bright 33:21 Slow and steady.

Steven Bartlett 33:22 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 33:22 Slow and steady. I was making, I'd been making content for seven years, and then I got to a million subscribers. So I didn't have any of those really viral moments. And I saw lots of people kind of steamroll ahead of me, like go viral. They were part of these groups and these crews, and you know, there was a time that there was a thing called the Brit Pack.

Steven Bartlett 33:44 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 33:44 They were all there, and I was just, like, in the corner (laughs) by myself, like, prodding along. And then inevitably, like, my ti- my time came, and it took, again, that seven years to 1 million, and then one more year to another million and a half. And I then had my own viral moment off the back of myself. And, um, but I never kind of took the step back to be like, "Oh, you've made it," 'cause I never feel like I've made it.

Steven Bartlett 34:12 Not even now?

Patricia Bright 34:13 Nah, not yet.

Steven Bartlett 34:17 A lot of people might be surprised by that.

Patricia Bright 34:20 Hmm, maybe. But it's the, depends on someone's personal definition of making it, right?

Steven Bartlett 34:25 And what's yours?

Patricia Bright 34:27 World domination. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 34:30 World domi- (laughs)

Patricia Bright 34:31 What is mine? Um, it's not just being popular on social media. That's not my complete definition of success, right? I think for me, it's like, creating things that I wanna create when I wanna create them, and monetizing them and bringing value. So if I say my overall thing, that's it. What that looks like, I don't know just yet.

Steven Bartlett 34:52 And you don't think you're there yet? You don't think you're creating things that you really-

Patricia Bright 34:55 Oh, I'm doing it. I'm doing it, but I don't think I've had like one big thing yet. Does anyone have one big thing, though?

Steven Bartlett 35:04 I don't know. I think that, uh, you know, I think if you'd gone back and asked Patricia when she was at MMU what her making it look like, you would have said, you know, "100,000 followers." (laughs)

Patricia Bright 35:14 True. Sure.

Steven Bartlett 35:14 On my... Do you know what I mean?

Patricia Bright 35:15 Sure.

Steven Bartlett 35:16 So there's-

Patricia Bright 35:16 Free clothes.

Steven Bartlett 35:17 (laughs) Yeah.

Patricia Bright 35:17 Free food.

Steven Bartlett 35:19 Exactly, yeah.

Patricia Bright 35:19 Yeah, that's true.

Steven Bartlett 35:20 So maybe the goalpost is just moving off into the future. And maybe that's-

Patricia Bright 35:23 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 35:23 Maybe that speaks to what life is. It's just that journey as opposed to that destination, right? So...

Patricia Bright 35:28 Yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 35:29 And influencers, being an influencer.

Patricia Bright 35:32 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 35:33 Talk to me about that. When I say it, you know, what do you think about the lifestyle, the stigmas-

Patricia Bright 35:38 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 35:38 ... et cetera, et cetera?

Patricia Bright 35:40 So when people say influencer, I think there's a little cringe when they say it.

Steven Bartlett 35:44 Mm.

Patricia Bright 35:44 But I think this concept of being influential is, has always been around, but it's al- always been around with the hands of s- the upper echelon of people. Only certain people are picked by certain industries to be influential. But what I love is, like, now, there's this democratization. People can choose who they want to be influenced by. And how I got in my position is because people liked me. They, they decided that, "Actually, I wanna hear what Patricia has to say. I wanna see what she's buying, I wanna see what she likes." So I think it's a really...... a powerful tool. We've all been influenced. The question is, like, we wanna choose who those influencers are, I'd say.

Steven Bartlett 36:28 It's, it's a, it's a, it's a big, I guess, responsibility to some, because y- I know for a fact that every time something happens in the world, you get a DM, "Patricia-

Patricia Bright 36:40 Hmm.

Steven Bartlett 36:40 ... I thought you were with us."

Patricia Bright 36:41 Hmm.

Steven Bartlett 36:41 "Why aren't you doing 55 Instagram posts about Palestine, or Kenya, or India-

Patricia Bright 36:48 Ugh.

Steven Bartlett 36:48 ... or oxygen in a s- or fires in Australia. I thought you were one of..." It's a lot.

Patricia Bright 36:52 It's a lot. It's a lot. Bearing in mind that my forte is makeup and clothing, and, and maybe finance, you know, to an extent, I feel there is pressure for influencers to speak up on every topic all the time. But we are not credible sources who know everything. We just don't. And I think it's really important for us to say, "We're ignorant on the matter and we're, we're learning." But kind of speaking up on stuff that you know nothing about is very, very-

Steven Bartlett 37:24 Stupid.

Patricia Bright 37:24 ... dangerous. It-

Steven Bartlett 37:25 Yeah. Yeah.

Patricia Bright 37:26 Yeah. And stupid.

Steven Bartlett 37:26 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 37:27 Um, and also what is really scary is that if you don't think the same way that everybody else thinks-

Steven Bartlett 37:33 Oh.

Patricia Bright 37:33 ... you're in trouble.

Steven Bartlett 37:34 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 37:35 What if you have an alternative perspective? You're not allowed to have an alternative perspective. If you

Patricia Bright 37:41 ask for peace, whether or not it's, you know, in the Middle East specifically or f- on a certain matter, "Oh, no way," 'cause the world wants to keep everything burning. But, like, personally I'm like, "Can, can this just chill?" Like, not just that situation specifically, but a lot of situations, I'm like, "I just wish it wasn't happening."

Steven Bartlett 38:02 Is that your approach to it? You think generally if I don't have a, a proper well-rounded view... 'Cause, uh, h- it's all well people... Like, 'cause I get the same, this is how I know you get the same.

Patricia Bright 38:12 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 38:12 People message me and say, "Steve, speak on this issue or Black Lives Matter," whatever, um, while I'm still processing it. And what you're right, what they're actually saying is-

Patricia Bright 38:19 Hmm.

Steven Bartlett 38:20 ... "Share my opinion-

Patricia Bright 38:21 Hmm.

Steven Bartlett 38:21 ... to your followers of- on this issue."

Patricia Bright 38:24 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 38:24 And they're try- they try and, like, guilt trip me into it, like-

Patricia Bright 38:26 Hmm. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 38:27 ... you know, especially when it's, wh- when it's, uh, a group of people that I can relate to just viscerally, so like my skin color.

Patricia Bright 38:34 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 38:34 I'm expected to be a-

Patricia Bright 38:35 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 38:36 ... you know, the spokesman of all Black people.

Patricia Bright 38:38 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 38:39 Um-

Patricia Bright 38:39 Oh, me too as well. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 38:40 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 38:40 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 38:41 It's a lot of, yeah, a lot of, um, nastiness. What, what el- what else do you think is, um, unappreciated about being an influencer? You've obviously got a big platform. The other thing I was gonna say, right, and this is what I was just thinking as we're talking. Um, the other day I thought, and I've been working out for a year and a half now, I always like talking about this-

Patricia Bright 38:55 Love it. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 38:56 ... on single, um, and Grace, who sat behind that curtain over there, I sent her a, a photo and I was like, "I'm gonna post like a transformation picture-

Patricia Bright 39:03 Okay.

Steven Bartlett 39:03 ... of like the before and after." And me and Grace had a conversation, because if I was a female-

Patricia Bright 39:10 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 39:10 ... and I posted that, I would've got fucking ripped to pieces.

Patricia Bright 39:15 Right. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 39:15 I would've been told I was toxic, irresponsible, body image, dah lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah.

Patricia Bright 39:19 Yeah. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 39:20 I posted it, fine.

Patricia Bright 39:21 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 39:22 100% of people are like, "Send us your plan," like whatever.

Patricia Bright 39:25 Yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 39:25 And it really made me reflect on how tough it is to be a woman-

Patricia Bright 39:29 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 39:29 ... on social media-

Patricia Bright 39:30 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 39:30 ... with a big audience. It's like the standard of perfection-

Patricia Bright 39:33 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 39:33 ... in terms of your, like, morals, what you're posting, how you're posting it, what you're saying is a high bar to reach.

Patricia Bright 39:39 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 39:39 Whereas I'm not held to that standard as a guy.

Patricia Bright 39:41 Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not surprised. But there's gonna be different standards you're held by. So with the women, like, ours, there's a lot of pressure around our appearance, or if we're mothers, how we mother, or what we're wearing. I mean, they're so random, but I'm sure there's definitely things that men are gonna expect from you that, they're like, "Can't believe you did this," or something like that's toxic.

Steven Bartlett 40:08 Do y- it even relates to success. It's like I can come on and s- I could come on this podcast-

Patricia Bright 40:13 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 40:13 ... and say that I, the reason I'm successful is because of me.

Patricia Bright 40:17 Hmm.

Steven Bartlett 40:17 And I can talk about my big old ambitions and I'm gonna-

Patricia Bright 40:20 Oh, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 40:20 But when a woman does it, it's like-

Patricia Bright 40:22 Okay.

Steven Bartlett 40:22 You know what I mean? It just seems like there's just a double, a total double standard. The fact that I can post-

Patricia Bright 40:28 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 40:28 ... me being kind of slightly overweight and out shape, and then like nine- 19 pack. Like... (laughs)

Patricia Bright 40:34 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 40:34 Do you know what I mean? I saw-

Patricia Bright 40:34 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 40:34 ... one of your videos you said seven abs or whatever, like, uh, seven abs-

Patricia Bright 40:37 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 40:37 ... whatever, and the comments are like, "Whoo." (claps) But I know if, if, uh, if, um, if a woman did the same thing, it would be like, "This is irresponsible. What are you saying? Fat shaming, dah lah, dah, dah, dah."

Patricia Bright 40:47 Oh. Why is that?

Steven Bartlett 40:51 Ugh. I mean, I don't know. (laughs)

Patricia Bright 40:51 Is it because like men and women are fundamentally different, so I'm pres- presuming that your audience is like probably say 60% to 70% males.

Steven Bartlett 41:02 80% women.

Patricia Bright 41:03 80% wim- oh, for all-

Steven Bartlett 41:05 On, on my Instagram in particular, it's 70, yeah.

Patricia Bright 41:07 Wow. I think women judge-

Steven Bartlett 41:09 70%.

Patricia Bright 41:09 ... men by different standards. So what you'll see... Oh, let's talk about this.

Steven Bartlett 41:13 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 41:13 What you'll actually see in the world of beauty and women's fashion and, um, industries that are predominantly consumed by women, men are always at the forefront. So the biggest influencers in the beauty industry are five men, men who wear makeup, right?

Steven Bartlett 41:33 Hm. Shit, that's so true.

Patricia Bright 41:34 And, y- yeah, so men who wear makeup are more popular than, or let's say three. Men who wear makeup can be bigger and get to bigger stratospheres than any woman could. Um, the fashion industry and fashion brands, all of them, the majority of them are owned by men and ran by men or creative directors are men, not w- not women. There aren't a lot of brands that are run and owned by women. And I just think this is something to do with biology, sociology, the way in which kind of women interact with men is different to how we interact with each other. I wish it was different, but I've-

Steven Bartlett 42:15 Hm.

Patricia Bright 42:15 ... I've just noticed this, like a lot.

Steven Bartlett 42:17 And, and the other point which I kind of alluded to there as well is on, on the, on this topic of gender disparities I guess is-

Patricia Bright 42:23 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 42:23 ... like dis- discrediting success.

Patricia Bright 42:26 (inhales deeply) Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 42:27 Do people discredit your success?

Patricia Bright 42:31 Do you know what? Not so much. And I think, also because I'm a black woman, people are so happy to see me do well because they feel like it's rare. And so I think I'm afforded a bit more luxury to be a bit more, like, aggressive about, you know, I'm pushing, I'm moving hard whether you like it or not. That's the Nigerian in me coming out. And culturally, I think, um, I'm allowed to celebrate that a lot more because Brits, I don't think, like to celebrate people doing too well or being too much.

Steven Bartlett 43:03 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 43:03 Um, so I can get away with it a little bit more. Um, but I know, like, there w- there is a little... (clicks tongue) There can be tension when I talk about my numbers too much. And I'll definitely get the messages of, "This is not what you should be talking about. You shouldn't talk about how much you earn. It's a bit rude."

Steven Bartlett 43:23 Imagine a guy doing it, though.

Patricia Bright 43:24 Oh.

Steven Bartlett 43:25 Oh! (claps hands)

Patricia Bright 43:26 Go on.

Steven Bartlett 43:27 What? Show us the Lamborghini again.

Patricia Bright 43:28 Uh, y- yeah. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 43:29 Do you know what I mean? It's like that's all guys do.

Patricia Bright 43:31 Yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 43:31 That's how they build their status is like, I mean, uh, just, that's what, that's how it works.

Patricia Bright 43:36 Have you put your-

Steven Bartlett 43:37 Yes.

Patricia Bright 43:37 ... Lamborghini on?

Steven Bartlett 43:37 No, no, I don't have a Lamborghini.

Patricia Bright 43:39 (laughs) All right.

Steven Bartlett 43:39 But no, but I can openly talk about how much money I've, I've generated in my companies and no one's ever gonna say, "Oh, that's so distasteful." They clap.

Patricia Bright 43:47 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 43:47 And, but when women do it, they, people do go, "Oh gosh-"

Patricia Bright 43:50 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 43:50 "... she's not, that's not good taste, is it?"

Patricia Bright 43:51 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 43:52 And that, again, is a huge... Like Ben Francis, he talks about he's built a one-point-something billion dollar company. Everyone's like, "Amazing."

Patricia Bright 43:58 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 43:58 You know, they can show, men can show the nice things-

Patricia Bright 44:01 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 44:01 ... the cars, the houses, whatever, and it's all... But the, the minute Grace Beverley does a house tour-

Patricia Bright 44:06 You can't do it, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 44:07 ... ooh.

Patricia Bright 44:07 I have a video called, like, How I Made a Million on YouTube, right? And, um, i- i- it's, firstly, it's got like over, almost a million views on it. And, um, but the comments were so kinda crazy. People were like, "I can't believe you're sharing this. We're really excited." But, um, also like, "Mm, you shouldn't be putting this out there." And what I actually did is, there's no way I can actually share my actual numbers 'cause I think people would judge me negatively and like, fall over, be like, "What the hell? How is it possible?" And like, almost wanna stop the bag, if that makes any sense.

Steven Bartlett 44:47 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 44:48 Like, they don't, people don't like to see women doing too big numbers. You gotta still be humble as a woman.

Steven Bartlett 44:54 How do you respond to that though? How do you, how does that impact the choices you make and does it impact the choices you make? Isn't that sad though that you're...

Patricia Bright 45:00 It really does. So I've mo- moved away from, like, putting out my numbers. I'm not gonna use using my numbers as a strategy or showing my things too much as a strategy. I also bought a couple of properties and, uh, you know, I really want to share with people about financial empowerment and properties and making money. But like, I can see the, almost like a, a sour taste sometimes in people's mouths. So I show a bit less of it. I, I'm not gonna show you the new house that I bought or, or something else. Um, I'm not gonna show it as much. And I've tried to make more relatable content. Um, a, a lot of us have to be relatable and remain humble to still be considered, um, a good influencer. Just don't show what you have. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 45:52 Are you happy with that though? Are you happy to go along with that and to, to do what, um... 'Cause w- when we spoke earlier about what your goal is, it's to make stuff that, like, really matters to you. And that sounds like it's driven by, like, "My terms, you know, what I care about in my way," and not allowing the audience to dictate what you create. That sounded like your North Star.

Patricia Bright 46:11 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 46:11 And this being a good influence, but it doesn't sound like it's gonna make you very happy.

Patricia Bright 46:15 Yeah. I think it's all about being strategic though, right? So like, if, um, eventually showing lots of glamorous stuff is gonna impact growth, I, it would be silly for me to keep doing it, right? And I, again, that's not my personal strategy anyway. I'll be honest with you. I don't wanna be like, "Look at my new Lamborghini."

Steven Bartlett 46:36 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 46:36 "Look at my new house."

Steven Bartlett 46:37 Yeah, yeah.

Patricia Bright 46:38 Like, that's not who I am as a person.

Steven Bartlett 46:40 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 46:40 It's a bi- it's a bit cringe for me and it's not part of my strategy. But, um, I do wanna remain authentic, but I understand that showing too much of my success, um, doesn't always sit well with people. And I'm happy to, like, remove that aspect if that makes people more comfortable. And I think that's because I'm a woman.

Steven Bartlett 47:02 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 47:02 Like, I want people to feel comfortable.

Steven Bartlett 47:04 Hmm. And, you know, your's,

Steven Bartlett 47:06 you started this platform called The Break.

Patricia Bright 47:07 Yeah, that was it.

Steven Bartlett 47:09 When I say, when I say that, there's a big smile on your face?

Patricia Bright 47:11 Yeah. That's like my, like my passion project turned like great potential business opportunity. And I think for me, that's, like, where I decided to start talking about these things. And we're just, we're talking about this now that people don't talk about money, women don't talk about money. On that platform, I am unapologetic and that's why I shared about the making a million in a year or making a million over a lifetime and showing how I budget my salary, uh, and showing you how I bought a house in 10 minutes. I put that all on there 'cause I feel like, you know over there is where I'm gonna talk about this stuff. So if you like it, it's there. If you don't like it, let's go put on makeup on my other channel.

Steven Bartlett 47:52 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 47:52 And, um, it's been just insane to see how it's grown and how much there's a huge demand for this type of content within this demographic.

Steven Bartlett 48:03 It was what was missing when you started out, from what you said earlier.

Patricia Bright 48:06 Exactly.

Steven Bartlett 48:06 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 48:06 And, and that's why I created it.

Steven Bartlett 48:08 'Cause you were buying all those bags and being a bit reckless and no one told you, so you...

Patricia Bright 48:12 Exactly. And the tax man came knocking at my door and I got fined and I was like, "Nobody needs to do this. This is how you incorporate. This is how you get your pension sorted out. This is how you can buy a property for your business." And I was just literally doing all the stuff that I kind of learnt from my accountant and from the financial mistakes that I've made. I really wanted to just say, "Here you go. Here's this information. Use this. Make it be valuable to you to help you in your journey."

Steven Bartlett 48:39 Do you know in black culture, we, um, growing up, you know, I was watching 50 Cent and, uh, all this stuff and, uh, he is a bad financial advisor.

Patricia Bright 48:47 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 48:47 Because (laughs) and I, I-

Patricia Bright 48:49 Who gets their advice from 50 Cent, though? (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 48:51 Every fucking, every black, young black man.

Patricia Bright 48:53 I know. I know.

Steven Bartlett 48:53 Do you know what I mean? And what he told me about bottles and Lamborghinis and stuff, it really hurt me when I was 21-

Patricia Bright 48:59 Oh.

Steven Bartlett 48:59 ... and I finally got money. And I went to the club and I was getting five bottles of Dom Perignon please. And I blew a lot of cash.

Patricia Bright 49:04 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 49:04 And I just wish those, those role models, like the rappers that I followed when I was younger, I wish they'd told me about credit scores. You know what I mean?

Patricia Bright 49:11 I wish. But that's not, it's not sexy.

Steven Bartlett 49:13 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 49:14 Right? It's not glamorous. It's not fun. Like, I have a video on pensions.

Steven Bartlett 49:18 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 49:19 Like, 40, 401Ks and, and whether or not you should be making a contribution to your SIPP, right? That is not, "Oh, this is glamorous." No one wants to hear that. But there are gonna be a few who do take it and use it. I wish we could dress up, like, credit scores. Like, give it lipstick, give it a Lamborghini.

Steven Bartlett 49:38 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 49:39 Um, but we haven't mastered that yet. Maybe I'll do that later. But th- they don't want people to know the truth. I don't think anybody wants people to really know the truth about finances.

Steven Bartlett 49:50 Right.

Patricia Bright 49:50 It's n- it's not beneficial. It's not beneficial to government, it's not beneficial to corporations, it's not beneficial to banks and lenders who actually want people to be inept in this area so they can make financial mistakes and then give them more money.

Steven Bartlett 50:05 Hm.

Patricia Bright 50:05 So like, that's the reality of it. Like, rich people aren't actually struggling financially. It's actually everyone else on the maybe lower end of the spectrum who don't have this information. But this information would transform their lives.

Steven Bartlett 50:19 I guess that's why they call it financial freedom.

Patricia Bright 50:21 There we go. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 50:23 And you said this started as a passion project and now it's turned into a potential business opportunity.

Patricia Bright 50:27 Exactly.

Steven Bartlett 50:27 Talk to me about that and where's it going?

Patricia Bright 50:29 Oh, this is, this is a lot. (laughs) What, so where's it going? So, we really wanna build out, like, a web platform which has content, but also tools that people can use. So, one of the things that I created was a simple budgeting, like, template. And, like, literally in like two weeks, we had like 20,000 people download an Excel spreadsheet on how to manage their day-to-day income. So clearly, there's more that we can do here. We then launched a planner as well. That just sold out in like a day or two. And then we're launching more of these. So for, in the long run, I'd like to provide more financial tools and resources that people could use to help them with managing their everyday finances. The dream is like an app, but that takes time-

Steven Bartlett 51:11 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 51:11 ... (laughs) to like happen.

Steven Bartlett 51:12 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 51:12 But like, we've got the d- designs and we're doing some testing now to really see how we can like build that out further.

Steven Bartlett 51:19 Of all the work you're doing-

Patricia Bright 51:21 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 51:21 ... across all of these different projects, and I'm sure there's many, many more that we won't even talk about today-

Patricia Bright 51:24 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 51:25 ... is this the thing you're most excited about? I know it's like choosing your, choosing your favorite child, but ...

Patricia Bright 51:32 I would say it's something I'm really excited about because it's so valuable. So, I'm very excited about it, and I think it's a new challenge. So, as an influencer, like, I work for brands, I, I make amazing content for them, I get nice things, but now this is my chance to kind of be a brand and create value more so. So, it's really like a new challenge for me that I'm excited to kind of get into.

Steven Bartlett 51:58 And y- you, when you were saying we-

Patricia Bright 52:00 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 52:00 ... when we, we've made an Excel document, who's we?

Patricia Bright 52:02 So, actually the Excel doc- document I made. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 52:05 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 52:05 But I do have, like, my husband who's been really supportive and like helping me build that out. And then I've like recruited a COO to like hel- help me think about scaling this out. But, um, I've had other team members here and there, freelancers here and there, but I know inevitably that scaling is something I'm gonna have to be willing to do. And that's hard for myself-

Steven Bartlett 52:28 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 52:28 ... to do. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 52:30 Your husband?

Patricia Bright 52:31 My husband, Michael.

Steven Bartlett 52:33 Michael. Can I call him Mike, I think-

Patricia Bright 52:35 You can call him Mike. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 52:36 (laughs) I can, I can see him over there in the corner of the room. (laughs)

Patricia Bright 52:39 Following me around. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 52:41 (laughs) Yeah. What's it like working with Mike?

Patricia Bright 52:44 So, oh, that's a really good question. So, working with Mike, you know what, Michael's been like with me for every step of my journey as a creator. And he's always worked a full-time job. And then he inevitably went even to more of a freelance role so that I could use him when I needed him. So, he will work as a contractor and I'm like, "Mike, I need your help. Quit your job, come and help me." And so throughout my entire journey, he's been there to do that. However, working with your significant other can be real difficult. Um-

Steven Bartlett 53:18 Hmm.

Patricia Bright 53:18 ... and there are times where we're like, "Mm, let's not do this. Go back to your job."

Steven Bartlett 53:21 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 53:21 "Make something happen. Go back contracting." And then when we are like, "Oh, we're cool," come back again. So, it's, what's important for us is actually to establish how we communicate with each other, and boundaries. Like, when we're working together, we actually don't work in the same environment. So, he'll work in an o- office and I'll work somewhere else. 'Cause if you work in the same room at the same time, it's not pretty.

Steven Bartlett 53:45 We're gonna send a microphone over to Mike in the audience to get his take on it.

Patricia Bright 53:49 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 53:49 (laughs) It's not pretty.

Patricia Bright 53:52 Y- yeah, because I think when you're in like boss mode-

Steven Bartlett 53:55 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 53:55 ... like, you can be quite direct. Like, I'm very like, "This doesn't look good."

Steven Bartlett 54:00 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 54:00 "I don't like this. Uh n- can we change this? How, how do we do this better? This is wrong." Right? And I think there are, when it's with your partner, they're gonna take that personally-

Steven Bartlett 54:11 Hmm.

Patricia Bright 54:11 ... over, say, someone else who is, you know, just working with you. And I haven't developed my managerial skills to be great when it comes to, you know, my interpersonal skills just yet. So, and I think when you're working with a loved one as well, you, you feel like you wanna be more direct. Like, they should know. Just, you should know this. Come on. Like, but he doesn't always know and he can't read my mind and he's a man. So there's, there's differences there. Um, so that's when it gets a bit difficult when we're together.

Steven Bartlett 54:42 And how do you, how do you balance like leaving work at work and not bringing that home with you? Because one thing I came to learn was that the Steve Bartlett that succeeds in a professional environment that is direct-

Patricia Bright 54:52 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 54:52 ... that is, is very clear and uncompromising-

Patricia Bright 54:55 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 54:55 ... is not the same Steve Bartlett that is re- is required to compromise and, "Oh, you wanna go for a walk in the park for no reason?"

Patricia Bright 55:01 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 55:02 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 55:03 Yeah. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 55:03 How do you, how do you-... be two different people in order to achieve two completely different objectives.

Patricia Bright 55:08 And how do you do that also when you-

Steven Bartlett 55:10 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 55:10 ... you live and work in a house, right? The same house?

Steven Bartlett 55:12 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 55:12 'Cause that's something that we deal with. I think it's a- a- again, about setting these boundaries, like physically. So Michael won't really work in the house, even if he's working on my projects, and I'll try and work from an office as well, as much as possible. Um, and then it's the case of, like, switching off. It's hard, man. It's really hard. I think as a creator, as a social media creator, like you're always on. I haven't mastered that yet, but we have kids. So the good thing about kids is that they force us to s- like give them love and give them attention. So we have to switch off and sort the kids out and give them a bath and give them dinner. So we'll always kind of, I don't know, switch brains because of that.

Steven Bartlett 55:57 Mm-hmm. Oh, that's a really good point. I never actually thought about a- the fact that kids would actually force some kind of balance into your life.

Patricia Bright 56:03 They do.

Steven Bartlett 56:03 Which is, yeah-

Patricia Bright 56:04 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 56:05 ... amazing. And y- you guys have been together a long time.

Patricia Bright 56:07 A long time, yeah. We've been together for 14, 14 years?

Steven Bartlett 56:12 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 56:13 And married for like nine years, I think? Yeah, nine years. Yeah. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 56:16 I always, I always think 'cause, 'cause, um, 'cause of my own experiences of being pretty useless at relationships-

Patricia Bright 56:21 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 56:22 ... um, entrepreneurs-

Patricia Bright 56:24 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 56:24 ... and especially crea- I mean, creators, it's a different bag-

Patricia Bright 56:26 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 56:26 ...'cause as you say, you're always on, they're, they're quite difficult to date.

Patricia Bright 56:30 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 56:30 Yeah.

Patricia Bright 56:30 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 56:31 And I- and I think as well, and I'm probably gonna get in shit loads of trouble for saying this, but I don't really care, I'm gonna die anyway. Um, I think from, uh, entrepreneurs from other cultures-

Patricia Bright 56:41 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 56:41 ... who've come up from another background and another, another mother can be even more tricky to date.

Patricia Bright 56:46 Yes. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 56:47 You spoke to your, your mother, you used the word, um-

Patricia Bright 56:49 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 56:49 ... we'll say passionate. (laughs)

Patricia Bright 56:50 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 56:53 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 56:53 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 56:53 Does, does that re- (laughs) can you relate?

Patricia Bright 56:54 Yeah, yeah. So obviously Michael's, like, a Englishman from (laughs) from Manchester, right?

Steven Bartlett 56:59 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 57:00 And like, we are very culturally very different. (laughs) And I think-

Steven Bartlett 57:05 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 57:05 But it's so interesting. I think if I wasn't with Michael, I'd be very single and very lonely.

Steven Bartlett 57:11 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 57:11 Like, I've accepted that. I don't know if anybody else would, like, actually handle me, if that makes any sense.

Steven Bartlett 57:17 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 57:18 I think it takes a certain kind of person to be with an entrepreneurial person, let alone an entrepreneurial Nigerian woman. Like, that's like, so many different layers there.

Steven Bartlett 57:29 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 57:29 And yeah, yeah, he's like a magician to be able to handle that. And we're like polar opposite people. I'm very, like, emotional and like, "Let's do this now," and he's very logical, steady, stable, and I think that actually is the balance that I've needed, like, and I think w- we're meant to be together to like, I don't know, just-

Steven Bartlett 57:50 Yin and yang.

Patricia Bright 57:51 Yin and yang. It's great.

Steven Bartlett 57:52 You said he followed you here today, but

Steven Bartlett 57:54 I heard you actually had a cyberstalker.

Patricia Bright 57:56 Oh. (laughs) Yeah. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 57:57 It's not, it's not Mike. It wasn't Mike.

Patricia Bright 57:58 I found out it was actually his account-

Steven Bartlett 58:00 Yeah. (laughs)

Patricia Bright 58:00 ... stalking me. Um, yeah, no, I did. I had a stalker for like three years.

Steven Bartlett 58:05 Oh, wow. What-

Patricia Bright 58:06 Um, and it was someone who would like, just message me on all my platforms constantly, send emails, message family members. Really weird. And nowadays, I can't even remember like, what their, what their issue was. Don't think they even had one. They were just obsessive me and obsessive like, my relationship to an extent. 'Cause I used to put vlogs out, and I used to have like, content with me and my husband, and I stopped like, actually, it sounds so bad, but I think it was enough to tell me I'm not gonna put myself out there in that way.

Steven Bartlett 58:42 Why?

Patricia Bright 58:44 I, I think it takes an emotional toll, toll having a stalker 'cause you're worried, like when you log in, "Am I gonna see their messages? What are they gonna do today? What are they gonna say today? Are they gonna dox me?" So they found out my parents' name and address. They're saying, "Your mum's this name, and she lives here." So like, those things, and obviously it was like psychological warfare, um-

Steven Bartlett 59:06 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 59:06 ... warfare. (laughs) But it was, yeah, it was more psychological. But like, when I was thinking about it, I kept thinking, "It's 'cause I put myself out there too much. This is why they're targeting me." And I think inevitably, it made me wanna retreat in certain aspects.

Steven Bartlett 59:21 Do you still think that was the case now?

Patricia Bright 59:24 I think that was one of my triggers, but I think inevitably, I was like, putting yourself out there too much from a personal perspective, um, wasn't something I wanted to do. Like, I used to show, like I showed our wedding. I showed me giving birth.

Steven Bartlett 59:40 Oh, wow.

Patricia Bright 59:40 I showed... I put a lot out there. Okay?

Steven Bartlett 59:42 Link in the bio. (laughs)

Patricia Bright 59:43 (laughs) Link in bio of my birth story.

Steven Bartlett 59:45 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 59:46 (laughs) Um, and like the platforms love it when you put yourself out there a lot, but inevitably, it does take a toll on you-

Steven Bartlett 59:53 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 59:54 ... as a person. And I, I just said, "We're gonna stop this. I don't wanna be that person." I actually care more about my real life than putting a version of my real life online.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:05 I, I tend to think when you're reaching that many people, just probabilistically-

Patricia Bright 1:00:08 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:08 ... just by numbers, you're gonna reach at least 10 nutters.

Patricia Bright 1:00:12 Yeah. Okay.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:13 Just like, do you know what I mean? Regardless.

Patricia Bright 1:00:14 It just happens. Yeah. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:16 And you're blocking this person, I'm guessing every time they pop up, and then they're making a new account and-

Patricia Bright 1:00:20 Oh, they're making hundreds of accounts. They're messaging other people.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:23 Oh, hun-

Patricia Bright 1:00:23 So what would happen is that when I would message someone online, they would like, be in, in the thread or they'd be watching everything I was doing. So I'd have to tell people, "I'm really sorry, I've got a stalker." Like, "If you got that message, it's from, it's from a, a stalker." They'd like message brands sometimes. It was just really weird behavior.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:43 And at some point it stopped, it vanished or-

Patricia Bright 1:00:46 Yeah, it reduced. It reduced, I would say, and then it inevitably like disappeared. I kind of forgot about it, to be honest, after a while. But I learned how to like listen to their speech pattern. So even if they would create new profiles, I always knew it was them based on the things that they would say and how they would say it. So they'll try to hide that it was them, but it's like-It's clearly you. Like-

Steven Bartlett 1:01:09 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 1:01:09 And there's even, like, online forums where people, like, moan about online creators and she would, like- sh- she or he would go into the forums and be, like, talking about me. So I would stalk my stalker, right?

Steven Bartlett 1:01:22 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 1:01:22 So I knew it was them. And then other people in the forum would be like, "You're Patricia's stalker." Like, they would know it was the stalker. So yeah, anyway.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:31 Wow, what a ride. That made you feel unsafe at any point? There was nothing where it was like, "We know your home address. We're gonna- I'm gonna come there."

Patricia Bright 1:01:40 There was some of that.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:41 Oh, really?

Patricia Bright 1:01:42 So there was some of... So I did a meet-and-greet, an event, and then they messaged me. He's like, "Ha ha, I was at your meet-and-greet. You didn't even know who I was. You didn't see me. You look so terrible in person. Next time I'm gonna do something," right? So I remember feeling so anxious and I would- I, I vlogged it and I remember, like, looking through the footage and I was like, "Who could it be? Who could it be?"

Steven Bartlett 1:02:04 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 1:02:04 I was like racking my brain. I was like, "Which one is it? Which one is it?" And I think it made me a bit paranoid, like, sure a season. But I was never scared 'cause I'm from South London. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:02:15 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 1:02:15 I'm not scared. Come to my house and we-

Steven Bartlett 1:02:17 Come to- (laughs)

Patricia Bright 1:02:18 Like, we'll see. Like-

Steven Bartlett 1:02:19 Send me your location.

Patricia Bright 1:02:19 I, I even prefer that. Like, "Come to my house." (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:02:23 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 1:02:23 "Uh, let's see." (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:02:25 Quick one. I talk about fiverr.com a lot on this podcast, but I think the perfect sort of illustration of the power of Fiverr was actually illustrated a few weeks ago when Jack, who is the director and producer of this podcast, was away. And so we had to find someone to step in to, um, edit the episode with Dr. Alex. And so we turned to Fiverr. And that whole episode, which you would've seen on YouTube, was edited by a young guy who we found on Fiverr. And for me, that's the perfect illustration of the diversity, the cost effectiveness, but also the sort of bandwidth that you can achieve on short notice by using fiverr.com. And if you haven't used Fiverr, there's such a diverse array of services on the website delivered by freelancers. Everything from graphic design, to building websites, to getting subtitles done, to podcasts, anything. Check it out. Go to fiverr.com, that's with two Rs/CEO.

Steven Bartlett 1:03:16 So what's ne- what's next for you then in your, in your life as you look forward? You know, I'm not talking about goals, I'm just saying the, the sort of macro, the overall feeling-

Patricia Bright 1:03:25 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:03:25 ... you want from your life and where you wanna be.

Patricia Bright 1:03:27 I think it's s- being open to more challenges that are different to what I'm used to. I've been making content and creating by myself, for myself, for brands for so long, for like 10 years. And I've, I, I... Although I think I'm a brave person, I feel like I've got very comfortable. So I wanna set myself out on challenges that are completely outside of my comfort zone. Maybe do something that, you know, is unexpected for me, unexpected for me as a creator. "Influencers don't do this," or, "Influencers of your size don't do this," or this kind of thing. And I really wanna work on, like, creating more products and really building out a brand and not necessarily being the face of everything.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:13 Why? Why not the face of everything?

Patricia Bright 1:04:15 So I actually realized though I'm in the public eye to an extent, like, I don't really like being famous. I don't really wanna be a personality. I don't want things to be about me, and I don't know why I put myself out there if I didn't want that. But I think fundamentally I'm happy to slink into the background as a person.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:37 But don't you want that?

Patricia Bright 1:04:37 Nah. I think there are other people who want it more. Like, I don't enjoy being (sighs) famous, as in, not that I don't enjoy it, but I think there are people who, like, really wanna be famous, right? And there are people who just wanna do what they do and do it well and, and like-

Steven Bartlett 1:04:55 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 1:04:55 ... not... Just have their own normal friends, do their, their own normal things and get on with life. Like, I get on the train every day and I, I go on the underground and some people are like, "You get on the underground?" I'm like, "Yes, it's quicker." But I don't wanna ever be in a place where I can't get on the underground.

Steven Bartlett 1:05:09 People are stopping you saying, "Hi Patricia, can I have"-

Patricia Bright 1:05:12 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:05:12 ... "pitch?" And you're like, "No, COVID." (laughs)

Patricia Bright 1:05:14 No, I always say... (laughs) No, I was like-

Steven Bartlett 1:05:15 (laughs)

Patricia Bright 1:05:16 ... "Hey, girl." I'm always friendly.

Steven Bartlett 1:05:18 I guess you can use that fame for things that you do care about though, right? Like...

Patricia Bright 1:05:23 I like that. You're right.

Steven Bartlett 1:05:24 You, you know what I mean? It's like-

Patricia Bright 1:05:25 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:05:25 ... double-edged, double-edged sword. It costs-

Patricia Bright 1:05:27 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:05:27 ... something, but it gi- creates an opportunity for something in a, in a way.

Patricia Bright 1:05:29 Oh, yeah. Wow. You just, you just, yeah. You just told me off there. (laughs) In a good way.

Steven Bartlett 1:05:34 No! No, no.

Patricia Bright 1:05:35 No, no, I love that.

Steven Bartlett 1:05:36 I don't... You- Yeah. I don't, you know. Yeah.

Patricia Bright 1:05:36 And no, I love what you just said that-

Steven Bartlett 1:05:38 Uh.

Patricia Bright 1:05:38 ... you can use a, the fame for value.

Steven Bartlett 1:05:40 Yeah. That's kind of what I, I can, can... The battle I'm having at the moment 'cause obviously just done Dragon's Den.

Patricia Bright 1:05:46 Yeah, exactly.

Steven Bartlett 1:05:47 And that's gonna be all over the TV and stuff, and people are gonna start coming up to me and pitching me their business ideas in the street, which I don't wanna fuckin' hear.

Patricia Bright 1:05:52 Yeah. Well, I have an idea for you. No, just kidding. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:05:55 Oh, okay. (laughs)

Patricia Bright 1:05:55 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:05:55 No, but do you know what I mean? Like, you're gonna get... Uh, 'cause I, I went out with Peter Jones for like dinner and-

Patricia Bright 1:05:58 Yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:05:58 ... and he goes, "I'm just gonna pop to the toilet."

Patricia Bright 1:06:01 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:01 And I g- He takes three steps and a guy stops him. "Hi Peter, I k- knew you were here." Pitches him the idea.

Patricia Bright 1:06:08 Oh.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:08 The percentage. Asks... And I'm just looking at Peter thinking, "That's gonna be my fuckin' life."

Patricia Bright 1:06:11 Oh. Oh, God.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:13 You know what I mean? And then you... But what, so what's the upside? What's the up- why am I doing this?

Patricia Bright 1:06:16 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:16 Why have I created a pl- why have I put myself out there and I think-

Patricia Bright 1:06:18 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:18 ... "Okay, all the other upsides are that it's gonna allow me to build things that are more in line with"-

Patricia Bright 1:06:24 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:24 ... "you know, things I care about." It gives you a platform and audience, what, you know-

Patricia Bright 1:06:26 Yeah. No.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:27 ... all that stuff.

Patricia Bright 1:06:27 Love it. You're right. You're right.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:29 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 1:06:29 And I, and I'm battling with the fact that there's clearly a reason why I'm, I'm here or why I've got this audience and why I, people connect with me, right? And actually maybe it's a good thing that I have no huge desires to be famous, um, so I'm gonna have to work out how to deal with that attention in a way, um, better and not just think about slinking into the background 'cause maybe-

Steven Bartlett 1:06:54 That's how you feel? Slinking into the background?

Patricia Bright 1:06:57 I wanna, I wanna be low-key. Like, I wanna make my videos and it sounds crazy, and no one really watch them. (laughs) Like, I like, I like the idea of when things are small.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:08 (coughs)

Patricia Bright 1:07:08 No, 'cause I've been very viral. Like, so I was really viral. I was getting like eight million views a video, 13 million views a video. And at the time I was like, "Ooh, this is quite... This is a lot for me to, like, handle 'cause people are, like, messaging me all the time, like, "Patricia." And I'd be like...Hey, guys. Hey.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:24 Yeah. (laughs)

Patricia Bright 1:07:24 Um, so it's not that I want to slink into the background. I think I just need to be more comfortable with recognizing that, you know, "I'm here. I'm, I'm doing it." Um, but still keep that normality. That's really important for me.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:37 And what have you learned over the... in terms... as it relates to... if you were... because I'm thinking now about, you've got an entrepreneur over there in the corner, Sophia. And she's, she's starting a meal prep business. She's also working in the city in finance.

Patricia Bright 1:07:47 Okay.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:48 So it's, it's very-

Patricia Bright 1:07:49 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:49 ... coincidental that she's, she happens to be here today.

Patricia Bright 1:07:52 Love that.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:52 If you were speaking to someone like Sophia, and you, you were just giving her a bit of advice on how to, um, become succ- as successful in what you do as you have been-

Patricia Bright 1:08:01 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:08:02 ... what are those underlying principles where you say, "That really is the thing. There's no quick route, whatever, but that thing there is the thing"?

Patricia Bright 1:08:10 So I think the first thing is leaning into your, like, authentic tone. Like, what is the thing that makes you or your brand yours? And not running away from that and not trying to be something else. It's like learning to not be scared of yourself. This is what we are, this is who I am, this is it, right? And then consistently putting that out all the time so that people connect with that. They either connect or they don't, but you only want those who are gonna connect with that true version of yourself or your brand. And then it's... of course, you know, you're gonna jump on trends or, or things that are viral so you can get traction. That's what I did. I would jump onto viral trends, but do it in my own tone of voice. Um, and, you know, phew, it's the consistency. Continue. That's it.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:06 I've never done this before, but I want to ask Mike a question, if I can.

Patricia Bright 1:09:08 You can ask Michael a question.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:09 Mike.

Patricia Bright 1:09:09 He's famous.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:10 Mike. I saw you on her Instagram actually, with the, with the Baby Father's Day. Um, I wanted to ask you, from your perspective, why do you think Patricia has been so successful in what she's done?

Mike (Patricia Bright's husband) 1:09:20 Well, I reckon for a number of reasons. Par- partly, I think it's her personality.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:24 Personality.

Mike (Patricia Bright's husband) 1:09:25 Which she doesn't acknowledge. So Patricia, it... Patricia doesn't acknowledge a lot of good things about herself.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:30 Mm-hmm.

Mike (Patricia Bright's husband) 1:09:31 She's definitely 100% her biggest critic. She brings a lot of energy and passion and enthusiasm and stuff like that. So when you watch her, you feel good or you feel happy or you feel interested or inspired.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:43 Mm-hmm.

Mike (Patricia Bright's husband) 1:09:44 Which is something that she doesn't really acknowledge, but I think that's a part of it.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:46 Mm-hmm.

Mike (Patricia Bright's husband) 1:09:47 I do think there's certain fundamental, like, I suppose, numerical things like consistency and sticking with it over time and, you know, all those types of fe- factors that you can look at from a numbers perspective that help.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:59 Mm-hmm.

Mike (Patricia Bright's husband) 1:09:59 So definitely doing that and staying with it and doing, you know-

Steven Bartlett 1:10:01 Mm-hmm.

Mike (Patricia Bright's husband) 1:10:01 ... your three uploads a week and your regular posts and all those sort of things, that help. But there's a lot of people that do that and don't have the same level of success, right?

Steven Bartlett 1:10:10 Right.

Mike (Patricia Bright's husband) 1:10:11 So that's why you have to look at, well, what's the differentiating factors? So I think there's that. I think there's an element of, um, her kind of openness and honesty. And her... also, because of... I think partly because she's done it a long time, she's very natural and authentic.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:26 Mm-hmm.

Mike (Patricia Bright's husband) 1:10:27 So you don't feel like you're watching someone who's performing.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:30 Mm-hmm.

Mike (Patricia Bright's husband) 1:10:30 You feel like you're watching someone who is genuinely, you know, giving who they are to you.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:37 Mm-hmm. And that's rare, right?

Patricia Bright 1:10:39 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:39 So I asked Mike there what... you know, what his... he thought the causal factors behind your success were. He pointed at personality, you being vulnerable, and you being authentic.

Patricia Bright 1:10:46 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:47 And, um, yeah, I mean, that's, that's kind of rare online with the world we live in, with perfection filters and don't share the bad shit.

Patricia Bright 1:10:58 Uh, yeah. And I think I'm lucky in that I came up in an age of making content where it was so authentic. There was no business behind it, and it was about connection. So I had that training. That was my training ground for being a creator. Just, just do what you do. Don't-

Steven Bartlett 1:11:16 Mm-hmm.

Patricia Bright 1:11:16 Don't think about it, just do what you like. So I, I feel lucky that I've got that as, like, my basis as creating, um, and being an influencer.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:26 Well, I, I can certainly feel that, and I think it comes through in everything you do, especially the stuff you're doing on the break. I've never watched videos about finance that seemed to be so entertaining and real-

Patricia Bright 1:11:35 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:11:35 ... and weren't trying to be, like, snotty financial, like, long word business bullshit advice.

Patricia Bright 1:11:40 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:40 So it made it super, like, inclusive and, um, real.

Patricia Bright 1:11:44 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:44 And obviously that's what's absent in that space.

Patricia Bright 1:11:46 Exactly.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:46 Is inclusion. That's why-

Patricia Bright 1:11:48 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:48 ... like, we both probably bought bags we shouldn't have bought.

Patricia Bright 1:11:50 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:11:51 And don't play on that. I definitely-

Patricia Bright 1:11:52 Definitely.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:52 ... should've bought, so.

Patricia Bright 1:11:53 Definitely.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:53 So thank you so much, Patricia, for your time today. You're such an inspiration to so many, and-

Patricia Bright 1:11:57 Thank you.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:57 ... much m- you know, much of the reason for that, in my view, is because you're such a real person.

Patricia Bright 1:12:01 Thank you, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:12:01 And, um, and you're willing to share that realness with everybody. Um, what you've done is remarkable, and I'm sure y- this is just the beginning for you.

Patricia Bright 1:12:08 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:12:08 You look about 23 as well. I was like, "You literally look 23," but that's-

Patricia Bright 1:12:12 Oh, thank you. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:12:12 ... part of the upside of the, the ethnic background.

Patricia Bright 1:12:15 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:12:15 Um, thank you so much for your time. It's such an honor.

Patricia Bright 1:12:17 Thank, thank you for having me. It was great to come on and have a chat.

Steven Bartlett 1:12:19 Thank you.