Peter Crouch Opens Up About His Dark Times & Crying Himself To Sleep | E196

Peter Crouch 0:00 I've seen things that I'd never seen before. You know, the proudest moment of my life has been taken away because of that.

Narrator 0:08 Peter Crouch is netting again! Oh, that's sensational! Brilliant finish by Crouch! Crouch tries one ... oh!

Peter Crouch 0:16 I think people that know me would say I'm a nice guy, but on the pitch, I had to be a different person if I wanted to succeed. The top-level players that I've played with, Lampard, John Terry, Steven Gerrard, I think look like they don't enjoy it. They are constantly battling for the next thing.

Steven Bartlett 0:30 Were they intense?

Peter Crouch 0:31 So intense, yeah. And, you know, a big reason why I'm the person I am. I played for England in an era where it felt like there was a huge pressure. You know, we had an opportunity to win World Cups, and because we didn't, it was heaped on players. I've got my mom, my dad, and friends in the crowd, and then you come on and get booed by 70,000. It's, it's hard to come back from that. My mom was crying. My dad had to have a fight. I was thinking about giving up football. I think I wasn't seen as what an England striker should look like. I was so scared. I would ... just wanted to hide away.

Steven Bartlett 1:03 In that phase, you were turning to drink more than you should have been.

Peter Crouch 1:05 Well, I needed to at that time. You're not seen as people. It's like, you're well paid, so you have to endure this abuse. You know, you put yourself in a position to be shot at. But like, what I've seen with certainly Harry Maguire, the criticism goes beyond criticism. It's gone too far.

Narrator 1:21 The reaction says it all.

Peter Crouch 1:22 I'm so proud to represent my country, but ...

Steven Bartlett 1:29 Before this episode starts, I have a small favor to ask from you. Two months ago, 74% of people that watch this channel didn't subscribe. We're now down to 69%. My goal is 50%, so if you've ever liked any of the videos we've posted, if you like this channel, can you do me a quick favor and hit the subscribe button? It helps this channel more than you know, and the bigger the channel gets, as you've seen, the bigger the guests get. Thank you, and enjoy this episode.

Steven Bartlett 2:01 Peter, where do I need to start in your story to really understand you? What's the most pertinent, relevant things that someone listening to this needs to know about you to understand you?

Peter Crouch 2:17 Um, well, right at the start, I suppose. I think it's, everything comes from, um, your childhood, right? Um, I am who I am, and shaped by my, by my parents and my friends. Uh, and I suppose people see me now obviously, like I had a determination to be a footballer, a huge determination to be a footballer. Uh, and then people see me now, um, as a footballer who has a laugh, I suppose. And that is my persona, um, and ... but that stems from, from my childhood really, and being a little bit different, looking a little bit different, and having a, maybe a defense mechanism. Um, and that humor or ... probably that you see, uh, which is me now, um, yeah, was a little bit of a defense mechanism. When someone came at me, I'd always be funnier than they would be. And then that stops whoever's saying it in their tracks, you know? And then that, being so tall at such a young age was, was difficult at times. But that kind of defense mechanism was, I'll laugh at myself before you can laugh at me, and that w- that stood me in good stead. And, and even now, that's, you know, that's the way I get through

Peter Crouch 3:28 things.

Steven Bartlett 3:28 When was the, when was the first time that you, that you realized that you were different? 'Cause like, I, I remember coming to the UK from Botswana, in Africa, and I was the only Black kid in an all-white school. And there's like, there's some day, I think I remember specifically, a comment that a kid made to me in the playground, which really put into, like, perspective that I was actually different to them.

Peter Crouch 3:46 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 3:46 There was something about my hair. Um, I had like a little, little like kind of Jackson 5 afro going on that I combed out.

Peter Crouch 3:53 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 3:53 And from that day onwards there was, I kind of noticed that I was different. Can you recall a time where you, you realized that you being taller was, made you different?

Peter Crouch 4:03 Yeah, well, I think it's only the, it's only people with, with experience, like older people that, that notice anything like that, isn't it, really? I think like, as kids, we just grow up, everyone's the same, aren't they? And then, um, it's older kids ... So like when I was, you know, I was always the tallest in my class, but my mom and dad never, never made a big deal of it, uh, to me. Um, I was always taller than everyone else, and then when we started to play football, and then when I started to be good at football, you would hear things on the sideline, like, "Yeah, but he's a couple years older," or, "Yeah, he, he's good, but he's, he's too old." And, um, 'cause you're only judged by your height at that, at that age.

Steven Bartlett 4:39 Yeah.

Peter Crouch 4:39 So I would hear things from the parents, and then, um, you know, I'd hear like little remarks, like people laughing, little japes and jibing. And, um, yeah, 'cause like people would just say, you know, "You're skinny," or, "You're lanky," is, is seen as, um, it's sort of like you're allowed to say it in some ways. You, d- do you know what I mean? Like, it's a, it's a describing word. (laughs) But like, that's how it was for me. Um, but I, I love it. It's, it feels to me like it's part of me. It's me now. I've always been taller than everyone else. It wasn't as if I just shot up, um, and was different. I was just always ahead above everyone else. And that is a part of me now which I love.

Steven Bartlett 5:17 Richard Os- Richard Osmond, who came on the podcast, um, was the first person who kind of stunned me into silence, 'cause I have to be completely honest, I didn't realize that heightism ...

Peter Crouch 5:30 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 5:31 Abusing people for being tall was such a sort of consequential, um, thing for those people. I was one of the people who, who didn't, didn't realize that someone who's lived their height, being very, very tall-

Peter Crouch 5:45 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 5:45 ... will be told about it everywhere they go every second, and how that can impact someone, and how they feel. It honestly, when I remember doing that podcast, I remember sitting here and going, "Fucking hell, of course."

Peter Crouch 5:53 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 5:53 "Of course." It'd be like anything else with me. If I had like a third arm, and everyone said it everywhere I'd go, it would make me self-conscious about it.

Peter Crouch 6:00 Exactly right, yeah. Um, and ...... you know, it's because there's bigger problems everywhere, you know. There's bigger problems. But my prob- my problem or, you know, it was, my thing that was different was my height, you know. Like, uh, I, I, I recently, you know, added, did a joke of like all the questions that I was permanently asked, I had a, a series of cards in my inside pocket to answer every single question that everyone, the people I knew were gonna ask me. So it was, uh, "What's the weather like up there?" Um, "Do you play basketball? Uh, how tall are you? Um, do you sleep in a grow bag? Is the weather different up there?" Like five questions, but I had all the answers in my inside pocket.

Steven Bartlett 6:38 (laughs)

Peter Crouch 6:38 So before they even opened their mouth, I could give them a card. Um, and it was just something funny-

Steven Bartlett 6:44 Mm-hmm.

Peter Crouch 6:44 ... you know, that, that, that changed the subject. But it's amazing how many times... I think it's less so now because people know who I am and, know what I'm about, but before, um, people, I became well-known, um, those questions were just constant.

Steven Bartlett 6:59 What impact does that ha- we joke about it as, you know-

Peter Crouch 7:01 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 7:02 ... now. But what impact does that have on a young man?

Peter Crouch 7:04 Well, it, it, on an impressionable young teenager, it had a, it had a big impact. Um, me now, uh, you know, it's water off a duck's back, you know. It doesn't, it doesn't matter to me. Um, but yeah, as a young lad, it was, it was a little bit different. I remember my dad getting, you know, really angry about it. Um, because as a teenager you're going through things that are a little bit, um, you know, you're always, you're not comfortable within your own skin, are you, as a young, as a young lad. Um, so I was the same as everyone else, but I f- I found it difficult at times, really difficult, and especially football terraces. Like as I got older, um, and I was playing professionally, um, and then I started playing in the first team, and all of a sudden it was like, you know, dealing with... There's one thing dealing with the odd person in the, in the street saying, "Oh, aren't you tall?" And another thing dealing with, sort of, 30, 30,000 people screaming like obscenities at you, you know, taking the piss out of the way you look, laughing at you. That, that was difficult.

Steven Bartlett 8:07 When you say difficult, what do you mean?

Peter Crouch 8:09 Um-

Steven Bartlett 8:10 In a practical se- 'Cause I read that at like 14 and 15 years old you're crying yourself to sleep sometimes because of this and having conversations with your dad about it.

Peter Crouch 8:16 Mm. Yeah, yeah. I think there was times where I, I thought to myself, is it, is it worth it? Is it worth, uh, going through this? Um, why am I putting myself through this? It's all I've ever loved, it's all I've ever wanted to do, but if people are gonna laugh at me and take the piss out of me, um, what is the point, you know? Um, do I want it that much? I was lucky I had a good support network around me and I had good people around me. My dad was, was great with me and he'd always... And he was harsh with me at times as well, but he was also really, really good and, and, at pulling me back up and sort of giving myself more confidence. And, um, listen, I don't look like your average footballer, uh, and I've known that since I was 10, 11 years old. You know, when I watch football on the TV, I don't see anyone that represented me (laughs) , um, really. Like the odd, like Thore Andre Flo was, was potentially one, had good technique. Um, there was a couple of players that... but, but not many. So I thought to myself, "Maybe I'm just not, I'm not right. Maybe I don't look right. I don't... I shouldn't be a player," you know. I had all these things going on in your mind. But ultimately if, you know, I had the determination and I had the ability to... and I suppose the thick skin which you have to have to, to go past it.

Steven Bartlett 9:34 You said there that there was thoughts in your head of, "Maybe I should, maybe I should quit. Maybe I should go do something else."

Peter Crouch 9:39 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 9:39 Was, were those like real considerations you had at some point?

Peter Crouch 9:43 Yeah, yeah. Oh, without doubt they were. That was, um... I, I, I'm just, I used to think to myself, "Is it worth it?" Like why... I always remember the game, it was West Brom away when I came on, and, uh, I missed the chance, and nobody knew who I was. I was just a ki- you know, I was, I was probably the hei- same height as, as I am now and probably about, ppbb, I was probably about 9 stone, 9 1/2 stone. I was, you know, much skinnier than I am now believe it or not. And I'm trying to be a, a Premier League player, you know. It's just, people just thought it was absolutely ridiculous. And at times I, I thought it myself, I thought, "Well, I know I've got ability but I'm looking at these big strong, you know, developed men, like I'm, I can't compete with this." Um, and I always remember coming on and people actually laughing at me. And then, um, there was another game away at Gillingham where I just got absolutely abused to the point where, you know, people were shouting, "Freak," and, "Does the circus know you're here?" Like this, these were the, these were the things that people were saying. And, uh, my dad was in the crowd, and I'll always remember it, I was walking, I was walking, uh, out, uh, at halftime of the game and my dad was rolling down the aisle in the, in, in the Gillingham end (laughs) having a fight with someone. I thought, "Oh my God, this is not... This is my first season in professional football and my dad's having a fight, I'm getting absolutely abused, my mom's crying." You know, "What am I doing? Why, why am I putting myself through this? Of course I love football and that's, you know, what I wanna be, but is it worth all this?"

Steven Bartlett 11:09 How do you feel about those people that are shouting like, "Freak," at you when you come on the pitch and upsetting your family. Like h- how would you like think about them and that kind of culture now?

Peter Crouch 11:17 Like, do you know what? Like, it'd be easy for me to say here, sit here and go, uh, "Oh, you know, braindead, their this, their that," but growing up in a football culture it's like I, I, I've been there myself on a football terrace where you, you know, and you, uh, hear things. My dad used to cover my ears and stuff, um, used to go to Chelsea as a kid, and, um, it, it... I don't know it's, it, it's like n- it's like almost normal. And I know it's wrong. And obviously there's a line, you know what I mean? Obviously we've seen it recently, you know with the, with racism and, you know, there's certain things that go well over the line. But, you know, being tall wasn't considered, you know, over the line. So it was something that I just, I just decided was that was the way football is, you know. Can we change that? Can I change that? I don't think so. So I just got on with it. Um, and how do I think about them now? I think, yeah, it was reckless. I think, I think I sat down a Gillingham fan that was abusing me that day and I said to him, "Do you know what? You're really like..."... my mum was crying, my dad had to have a fight, I was thinking about giving up football. I think you'd, I think he'd say, "Oh, God. I'm sorry." I think he would. But I don't think in that moment he saw us as, as people. It's like you're, you're a footballer on the pitch and you're not seen as... It's like such tribalism that you're just gonna inju- you have to endure it for, for... You know, you're well paid so you have to endure this kind of level of abuse. Um, and I think things are changing. You know, I'd like to think they are. We're, we're trying to help that but, uh, certainly in those days it was a case of get on with it.

Steven Bartlett 12:53 Did that put a chip on your shoulder? You know when you hear those things and you're running onto the pitch and you hear people abusing you or whatever else, or you're aware of that, that narrative in your head? When you come on, do you think to yourself, "I'm gonna fucking show these people. I'm gonna..." Does it give you, did it give you doubt or did it give you an extra bit of confidence?

Peter Crouch 13:13 It's a little bit of both. I think, like, when I was... Like, I, I didn't know whether I was gonna play for England or I was gonna be a non-league player.

Steven Bartlett 13:20 Mm-hmm.

Peter Crouch 13:20 And either of them would have been fine. Like, I, I wasn't on the map to go and play for England, you know. I wasn't Steven Gerrard, I wasn't Michael Owen, I wasn't Wayne Rooney. Uh, you know, I, I had a different path. I wasn't ready for the Premier League till I was 22, 23 probably. You know, so I didn't know where my career was gonna go. So, yeah, there were times where I doubted myself. But then I think, you know, I think I scored my first goal and, uh, and things just changed and I just... It was one of the... it was the most important moment of my life. And it was against Gillingham again, believe it or not. Funny how it comes round.

Steven Bartlett 13:51 (laughs)

Peter Crouch 13:51 But I... Yeah, I chased the ball down and I volleyed this ball into... uh, I was at QPR and I knew then that I'd have a career in football. Uh, like, I, I didn't know I'd play for Liverpool, I didn't know I'd play for England, but I, I didn't know what I'd go on to achieve. But I knew then I'd have a career in football and that was where my confidence grew and, and then I thought, "No, no, no. I c- I can do this."

Steven Bartlett 14:13 Your dad.

Peter Crouch 14:14 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 14:15 Heard he was, um, quite tough at times from what I read.

Peter Crouch 14:20 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, like really tough, yeah. Um-

Steven Bartlett 14:22 What does that mean-

Peter Crouch 14:24 Well-

Steven Bartlett 14:24 ... in real terms?

Peter Crouch 14:26 Yeah, I mean, I think t- at times he probably went a little bit too, too far. But at ti- like I wouldn't, I wouldn't be sat here having played for England or having played j- ch- do- achieving the things that I've done, achieving my dreams without him being hard on me. Like I, I wouldn't... Would I go maybe to the, to the lengths at times that he, he did? Maybe not, but-

Steven Bartlett 14:49 What lengths?

Peter Crouch 14:50 Uh... (laughs) Well, he, um... Just certain things. Like, I think the, uh, har- the harshest one was when he, um... He obviously left me at, uh... I was at the ball court in, um, at Tottenham and, um, I, I jumped out of a tackle and his thing was, look, I came from a nice background and a lot of the kids were playing football to survive, you know. So I had to toughen up. And, uh, and that's the truth. Like, was I gonna go into a tackle like my life depended on it like the kids from, from the estate round Edmonton or East London and... Um, probably not at that time. So, you know, when I got up to, um... after the, after training, you know, my dad had li- he'd gone, so... (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 15:38 (laughs)

Peter Crouch 15:42 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So he left me and, uh, I had to get home and bearing in mind I grew up in Ea- in Ealing. Uh, getting home from White Hart Lane was an overground. Seven Sisters to Oxford Circus, Oxford Circus to Ealing Broadway and then walk home from there. Um, oh, I was probably about f- I was probably 13 or 14. But I hadn't been on a tube before. I had but not on my own. So, it was a tough lesson.

Steven Bartlett 16:10 Did he tell you he was going?

Peter Crouch 16:11 No, I went up there and he was gone.

Steven Bartlett 16:13 And did you not think, "Oh, I'll give him a call as soon as he..." (laughs)

Peter Crouch 16:15 Well, I didn't have a mobile.

Steven Bartlett 16:16 Oh, of course.

Peter Crouch 16:16 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was, it was different, different time.

Steven Bartlett 16:18 And when did you find out it was because of... you weren't tackling people? (laughs)

Peter Crouch 16:21 Well, I thought, I thought it might have been.

Steven Bartlett 16:22 Oh, you... (laughs)

Peter Crouch 16:25 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 16:25 (laughs)

Peter Crouch 16:25 It wasn't that I didn't tackle. I think... I remember jumping out of one particular tackle and I thought my dad's gonna kill me for that. Uh, do you know what, though? I never jumped out of a tackle again and, you know, like I say, it is a harsh lesson but I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna sit here and say it wasn't the right lesson. I think it might have been a tad harsh. Would I do, would I do that to my son? I'm not sure. I don't... Probably not. But I think potentially I'm too, I'm too easy on my kids a bit. Um, it's, it's a tough lesson to learn but I think if you wanna be a top elite footballer, you need to want it as much as the next person and I did want it. But I, I, I hadn't had to fight as much as these kids, you know. And, um, and l- don't get me wrong, these kids, these kids are... You know, I'm... They're my friends now, you know. Like, I have some good, some good lads that came from tough upbringings that went on to be really good players. Um, you know, Ledley King I remember. Like, Ledley King, Steve Mills, James Carter, these boys that I met in the ball court, you know. And, uh, Nicky Hunt. They were, they were tough lads, you know, from, you know, Bow in, in East London, you know, an estate where like Ashley Cole grew up, Ledley King grew up and, and I ended up playing in the ball court, um, where they grew up, you know. And that's a different kind of environment to where I was playing, you know. But I think when you can hold your own in there and, you know, you can go, you can rough it up, you can fly into tackles... I, I basically changed my whole personality to be... when I played football. You know, like I can sit here now and I, I'd like to say that I'm a ni- I'd like to think that I'm a nice guy. I think people that know me would say I'm a nice guy. But on the pitch I had to be a different person if I wanted to succeed and, um, that was just one lesson.

Steven Bartlett 18:16 When you got home from-... that, that little football game where you didn't p- put the tackle in-

Peter Crouch 18:21 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 18:21 ... or jumped out of a tackle. Did your f- dad have a conversation with you about it, about why he left?

Peter Crouch 18:25 Y- yeah.

Steven Bartlett 18:26 So he told you why at the end? He said-

Peter Crouch 18:28 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 18:29 ... "Why are you smoking?"

Peter Crouch 18:29 Yeah. It was... L- listen, there's a, there's a few things that like should remain private-

Steven Bartlett 18:32 Yeah, yeah.

Peter Crouch 18:32 ... between me and my dad. But, um, let's just say I was, I was told in no uncertain terms to not jump out of a tackle again. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 18:41 Okay. (laughs) Okay. Good. And your mum? What was her, he- her broader influence on you? What was-

Peter Crouch 18:47 My mum?

Steven Bartlett 18:47 Yeah, your mum.

Peter Crouch 18:48 Um-

Steven Bartlett 18:49 What was she like?

Peter Crouch 18:50 She is very much like me. Uh-

Steven Bartlett 18:53 Yeah.

Peter Crouch 18:53 ... yeah, I think most of my, my traits probably come, come from my mum. Um, you know, obviously the love of football came from my dad and stuff and, you know, he was very good with me. But my mum was, uh, was, was very good with me and, um, you know, she was... I thank her every day about, you know, she'd taken me to, to matches. I remember seeing her just, you know, she was the only mum on the side with the brolly when it was lashing down. And, um, she was incredible taking me to places. She was like my shoulder to cry on. She was the person that I would confide in. Um, they're both, both very, very good and, you know, a big reason w- why I'm the

Peter Crouch 19:31 person I am.

Steven Bartlett 19:32 Those players from the estate that you, you played amongst, uh, one of the things I, I read about, um, in your book was how you could see how attitude played such an important role in who would make it.

Peter Crouch 19:45 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 19:45 'Cause getting from, like, the estate to, you know, sorta semi-pro level and then getting to the Premier League is a long fucking journey.

Peter Crouch 19:54 Hmm.

Steven Bartlett 19:54 And there's only a few seats at that top table. So when you think about like why, including yourself, why in terms of mindset and attitude some of, of your colleagues and some of your peers made it and didn't make it-

Peter Crouch 20:07 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 20:07 ... what's your answer to that?

Peter Crouch 20:09 Yeah. It's, it's funny, like everyone, every footballer I've let's play for England or played... I've played with in the Premier League, um, they've all got a story. All of them. I've got... Every single one will tell you a story about the player that was better than them that no one knows. Um, there's so many of them out there and it's sad. Um, but for whatever reason, injury, you know, there's lots of, uh, temptation as a young footballer, especially when you're that good, um, you know, if you're earning money, you don't know how to handle that money, friends, um, parties, you know, distractions of, of all different kinds, um, you know, attitude, will, you know, d- d- determination, dedication. There's, there's so many factors alongside ability. Um, luck. There's, there's, there's so many factors. Um, but I, I sometimes think we don't... You know, a lot of the time we look at the negative side of football, um, but I think sometimes when you see the kids that have come from absolute... and I'm talking absolutely nothing some of these kids, uh, who are now playing for England or, you know... And they make mistakes. They make mistakes in the public eye. They make mistakes, high profile mistakes. And everyone goes, "Ah, it's footballers." You know, that's wh- That, you know, that's what they're li- b- like if you'd have seen what they've come from, to playing in a Champions League final, look, I think that's a s- uh, success story, you know? I think sometimes we should celebrate that fact. Not g- not, not caning them for making those mistakes that they've made. Um, and yeah, of course, it depends what kind of m- if it's, you know, too, too big a mistake, obviously you can't condone some things. But some of these players who have come basically with no mum and dad-

Steven Bartlett 21:44 Mm-hmm.

Peter Crouch 21:44 ... you know, they're... someone's picked them up with... one particular player, you know, not had any boots. Have been thrown on a football pitch and has ended up playing in a Champions League final. But yeah, he's made the mistakes along the way. But I think sometimes we should, we should consider that a success.

Steven Bartlett 21:57 Mm-hmm. So, yeah, we don't really have a lot of empathy, do we? When it comes to-

Peter Crouch 22:01 No. Because it's... 'cause it's... 'cause it's a highly paid profession, um, you know, and sometimes, um, you know, there's a stigma on, uh, you know, why are these, why are these players getting paid so well. Um, and I get, I get that, you know, there's, uh, there's a lot of money in football and, um, you know, s- there's... you know, could it be spent elsewhere on people in the NHS or, you know, people, uh, who've- f- f- you know, are doing probably much more harder jobs than a footballer. But, um, it is what it is. You can't change it. But I do think, um... Yeah, there is, there is that stigma associated to,

Peter Crouch 22:38 to footballers.

Steven Bartlett 22:39 I sat with Tim Grover, who was the guy that trained Michael Jordan and Kobe.

Peter Crouch 22:45 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 22:45 And he also trains some Premier League football players now, gives them like coaching advice. And one of the things he told me was how he's seen the pressure of being a high level Premier League football player completely destroy some players. And it's something that it was the first time I'd kind of heard that, because as a fan, as I've always been, you know, all, you know, we're, we're all tweeting, we're all having our say, we're all commenting, we're all at the game shouting in our little mob mentality, whatever. But then we don't really think that the... all of that pressure, especially on like as you say, a kid that's come from the estate-

Peter Crouch 23:13 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 23:13 ... who's 18 and isn't like... doesn't have the tools to deal with that pressure, how they can be going home, how it can severely impact their performance and how it can kinda like just cause them to collapse a little bit.

Peter Crouch 23:24 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 23:24 Um, I've gotta be honest, I've s- I've seen a, a similar thing in my view with like the, the mob attacking like someone like Harry Maguire. Rashford had it a lot last year as well. But, um, what's your take on all of that? And have you seen that yourself-

Peter Crouch 23:38 (sighs)

Steven Bartlett 23:38 ... in the dressing room?

Peter Crouch 23:39 Yeah. No, I've, I've seen it. No, I played, I played in, um... I played for England in an era where, um, it was... it felt like there was a huge pressure. There was a... It was the golden generation, you know. Players were the best we've ever had since '66. Um, you know, we had an opportunity to win World Cups and, you know, because we didn't, it was, you know, it felt like it was heaped on certain players, um, and that kind of pressure. But when you're talking about Rashford and, and Maguire like, I think we're all entitled to criticize players. Like we put ourselves in that, in that position. But like what I've seen with certainly Harry Maguire, I feel like i- it goes... it's gone f- really too far. I think, you know, it's...... it's harsh, it's, you know, I'm just thinking of his family, you know, because I've been in that position. I've been booed for England. I, I, I remember playing at Old Trafford in a game and coming on, and it's the proudest moment you'll ever have in your life, and your home fans are booing you. You know, I've been in that situation. And it feels like Harry Maguire's going through, you know, w- what seems to be a prolonged period of this. And yet, regardless of form, I think some of th- you know, the social media stuff that I see, you know, the ridiculing, um, I think he's having a difficult time to, as a player, but I think some of the criticism goes beyond criticism. It becomes, um, too harsh in my opinion.

Steven Bartlett 25:04 Having been in a situation where you've been booed by the fans of the club you're playing for, what does that do to you? What did it do to you when you came home? Was it for England you came home?

Peter Crouch 25:13 Yeah, well, that's devastating. Yeah, I, I, I'm, um, I'm playing for England, and listen, you know, there might be an element of the fact that I was a Liverpool player, um, at Old Trafford, um, you know, obviously a lot of Man United fans, um, but it was during the course of when I, I wasn't scoring for Liverpool, and I was having a real tough time anyway. I had 18 games where I, where I didn't score for Liverpool. And, um, the fact that it goes back to... I, I felt like with England I had to be superhuman. It goes back to the thing where 'cause I looked different a bit, uh, I wasn't seen as what an England striker should look like. Um, and I, I think that was genuinely a thing. But, um, I, I then, you know, I'm so proud to represent my country, but I've got my sister, my mom, and my dad, uh, all friends in the crowd, and everyone's excited. You know, they're all, they're all talking to me before the game about, you know, me c- potentially coming on and making an appearance, get the cap, and then you come on and get booed by 70,000.

Steven Bartlett 26:11 Of your own fans.

Peter Crouch 26:12 Of your... Yeah. So, so what I'm saying is, um, don't ever feel sorry for footballers. Don't. But, you know, don't, don't have to, we, we, we expect that. But my family, like my mom was in bits. Um, you know, the proudest moment of my life is sort of been taken away a bit because of that. Um, but, you know, we put ourselves in, in the position. There's no, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna sit here and, and cry about it. Just, it's just disappointing for my family more than anything.

Steven Bartlett 26:44 What happens when the whistle blows, the game ends on days like that? You're going back to see your family, is there a bit of an awkwardness to it?

Peter Crouch 26:51 Bit of embarrassment. You know, 'cause I, you wanna be the one who comes down with a, with a champagne in your hand, you know, and everyone claps you in and your family give you a big hu- hug, you know. A- and most of the lads did that. You know, they've got a shirt, they've got a cap. Like I'm ca- I come down to the player's lounge after and I'm a bit sheepish, I'm like, "Sorry about that, Mom." (laughs) You know, it's like you're apologizing for doing the thing that you've worked so hard to do your whole life. Um, so that is, that's difficult dealing with the, the family side of it because I, I know what I've done. I've put myself in a position to be shot at. I'm sure you feel the same, you know, doing this podcast, whatever you do that's, you know, you put yourself in a position to be shot at. But your mom hasn't, you know.

Steven Bartlett 27:38 Yeah.

Peter Crouch 27:39 She doesn't, she doesn't need to hear that and it kills, it killed her a bit.

Steven Bartlett 27:43 It's funny isn't it when you, when you put yourself in a position to be shot at, which I really like that phrase-

Peter Crouch 27:46 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 27:46 ... um, and then, you know, you get shot at, your family try and stand in the way of the bullets-

Peter Crouch 27:53 Exactly.

Steven Bartlett 27:53 ... to some degree.

Peter Crouch 27:53 Yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 27:54 And it's like, "No, no, no, please don't send me the articles. Please don't-"

Peter Crouch 27:56 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 27:57 "... tell me your thoughts on it in WhatsApp. I don't need to, uh, like persuade you out of the situation and, and like sort of counsel you on why these people are saying this about me."

Peter Crouch 28:06 But how do you deal with that? How do you deal with like, um, you know, do you just part the guard and pretend it's not happening?

Steven Bartlett 28:12 It depends on the issue, but I mean, I probably get canceled once, once every quarter for something I've said on this podcast or whatever. Um, Dragon's Den or... sometimes because of the way it's edited, it can make it seem like I said something I didn't say or whatever-

Peter Crouch 28:23 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 28:23 ... but, um, so my friends know not to send me articles.

Peter Crouch 28:26 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 28:27 Just assume I've seen it. (laughs)

Peter Crouch 28:28 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 28:28 I don't need my best mate going, "Have you seen this?"

Peter Crouch 28:31 This is the, the... This is something that happened like early on in my career and I was like, "No, sh- don't... Stop all that."

Steven Bartlett 28:35 Yeah.

Peter Crouch 28:35 Like I'm not bo- I'm not r- reading the n- I don't watch Match of the Day if I haven't scored.

Steven Bartlett 28:40 (laughs) Yeah, yeah.

Peter Crouch 28:41 (laughs) Do you know what I mean? That's, that's the way I deal with it.

Steven Bartlett 28:43 Yeah.

Peter Crouch 28:43 It's like, you know, that doesn't exist.

Steven Bartlett 28:45 Yeah, yeah.

Peter Crouch 28:46 And when I do something good, I might, I might listen to the play-

Steven Bartlett 28:49 (laughs)

Peter Crouch 28:50 (laughs) Be very selective in what you watch or listen to.

Steven Bartlett 28:53 But w- was there a moment in your career where you said, "I'm not gonna read the newspapers anymore. I'm not gonna watch the telly, I'm just gonna..."

Peter Crouch 28:59 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 28:59 Was it that Liverpool phase where you had to stop?

Peter Crouch 29:00 Oh God, yeah, that Liverpool phase was, was like radio silent. I was gone. I was... Well, that's the thing, like everyone's... The problem with now, I could stop buying a newspaper, I can stop watching telly, I can do other things. You know, I can do... But nobody can live without their phone now. And this is the problem like for young footballers that I worry if I do, like you kinda worry about it 'cause no one could put their phone down for w- honest, no one can. Um, so many footballers the same, especially a young player. You know, you pick up your phone for, right, I've got what's on the diary, I've got a text message. Then you, you find yourself on Instagram, on Twitter, or on whatever you're on and you can't get away from it. And the, and no matter what the players tell you, whatever they, "Oh, I don't listen to it," they, they do. They do. You can't get away from what, what it is now with the phones. You can't... Everyone's got one and everyone's looking. Um, with me to get through that, yeah, I didn't, I didn't watch... I was getting ridiculed. That time where I didn't score for Liverpool was such a hard time, like f- for me. I always just wanted to hide away in, in a, in a dark room until I scored basically. So I don't know what I would do if I was hiding away in a dark room with a mobile phone. I- it's you might as well just not, you might as well go out and face it all because it's a lot harsher on the, on the phone.... than it is when you see people in person.

Steven Bartlett 30:26 If I was in your- so you signed for Liverpool and then you go 18 games-

Peter Crouch 30:29 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 30:29 ... without scoring. 18 appearances, right, without scoring.

Peter Crouch 30:31 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 30:32 Um, if I was in your household at that time, if I was behind the scenes-

Peter Crouch 30:37 Hm.

Steven Bartlett 30:37 ... in your camp, what would have I actually, what would have, what would I have seen?

Peter Crouch 30:42 Um, d- or someone who's depressed, I suppose. But I mean, outwardly, outwardly not. I've never been that person to sort of, to wallow in it, you know. I'm always been the sort of, I suppose, a bubbly character, always see the positive in everything. Um, but that, at that time, like it felt like I was getting ridiculed and it was h- really tough. I- but I had to sort of fight my way through it. But what was so amazing was the Liverpool fans stuck with me and, uh, that's something that I'll never forget because I- I- I swear to you, any club in the world, um, uh, having just won the Champions League in one of the best finals you've ever seen in Istanbul in 2005, they signed me, right? I turn up and I don't score for 18 games, right? I don't think there's a club, a top club in the world, that tolerates that as a fan base, um, apart from Liverpool fans. And they stuck by me. And it was like a siege mentality. It was like, "Everyone else is attacking him, but he's one of ours and we're, um, with him." And it felt like every time I played, it felt like they were willingly to score. And, and when I eventually did, um, you can see the, the footage of it, the camera's shaking and like the-

Steven Bartlett 31:56 (laughs)

Peter Crouch 31:56 ... it's like we've won a European Cup final. Like people wanted me to score that much. And I, you know, I'm thankful to this day that they, they did stick with me and, 'cause I managed to turn it round after that. And, um, it was a special moment, uh, and, and a special club.

Steven Bartlett 32:13 I was reading, um, in that phase you, you were turning to drink more than you should have been a little bit after games and stuff.

Peter Crouch 32:19 Yeah, because my dad, you know, to be fair to him, would, would say to me... and I'd be like, "No, I'm not going out," and he'd be like, "You're going out." Like he'd make me go out after games. And I'd be like, "G- I don't want to. T- people are laughing at me." But he dragged me out and we'd have a few beers. Like it wasn't as if I was drinking at home on my own. It wasn't like a dark kind of thing. It was, he was making, he was dragging me out and he was making me have a few drinks. And then I realized actually no one... 'cause it's, I'd built it up, it's, I've everyone's laughing at me. It's m- it, it's my world that's, you know, no, actually no one really cares, you know. They might have a laugh at you on a Saturday, but they're going back to their own lives-

Steven Bartlett 32:57 Mm-hmm.

Peter Crouch 32:57 ... you know. I've, i- I feel like it's everyone's laughing a- at me a- all times, you know. You build these things up in your head and they're never as bad as you think they are. So his way of dealing with it, f- you know, with me was to take me out for a beer. And yeah, I probably did drink a little bit more than I should do as a, as a Premier League player, but I needed to at that time.

Steven Bartlett 33:18 Mm-hmm. And you, you t- you bounced between, what, six clubs before the age of 25?

Peter Crouch 33:22 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 33:23 Six?

Peter Crouch 33:24 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 33:24 That's a lot of moving.

Peter Crouch 33:25 It's a lot of moving around. Yeah. But I, I class that as a... like if I'm, if I'm at Liverpool or, you know, you're at... starting for Manchester United or, or Chelse- you know, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, you don't have to move anywhere if you're playing, do you? You know, you don't have to.

Steven Bartlett 33:38 Mm-hmm.

Peter Crouch 33:38 The course of my career was very different to e- anyone else's course of, of, of my career. Um, those moves that I had were... QPR was... I had a chance to showcase my talent, you know. I did very well. The club went into administration, I went to Portsmouth.

Steven Bartlett 33:51 Mm-hmm.

Peter Crouch 33:51 And they bought me for like a record fee. I then, um, did really, really well in a championship and got a move to Aston Villa in the Premier League. You know, I felt like my dream had arrived. And then it didn't quite work out. I wasn't ready for the Premier League. Um, I always remember my debut was against Newcastle and Alan Shearer was at the other end of the pitch and I was at this end of the pitch, obviously the, the opposite striker. And I thought, "If that's what I need to be a Premier League player, I'm not one." (laughs) "I'm not one." Because he was so good and I, and I, I just thought, ah, "Maybe I, maybe I'm a championship player." Um, so I ended up having to move again, uh, to Southampton to get games.

Steven Bartlett 34:32 Mm-hmm.

Peter Crouch 34:33 And then things took off. So like all my moves were like for, for, for a reason for the, from a club point of view, or for a financial p- thing for the club, or for me having to go out and get football or for me to progress as a player. So I would have loved nothing more than to stay at one club for my whole life, uh, but that wasn't, that wasn't my journey.

Steven Bartlett 34:55 You moved from, um, Liverpool to Spurs.

Peter Crouch 34:58 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 34:59 Um, h- how would you sort of summarize your time at Spurs?

Peter Crouch 35:02 Um, I, I absolutely loved it because I started at Spurs as a youngster and I played in that ball court at White Hart Lane and I tried to play in the youth team, uh, and I was in the reserves. And me and Ledley King came through together. Ledley, when s- he obviously was there and I went throughout all this whole journey of Liverpool, England, QPR, Portsmouth, Southampton and Norwich on loan, Dulwich Hamlet on loan. And I came back to Tottenham and Ledley was in the same place I left him in fact (laughs) -

Steven Bartlett 35:33 (laughs)

Peter Crouch 35:34 ... which was amazing. You know it was like we... I never got to play in the first team for Tottenham. I'd come through there in the youth team.

Steven Bartlett 35:40 Mm-hmm.

Peter Crouch 35:40 I had so many players a- a- ahead of me, I wasn't ready.

Steven Bartlett 35:43 Mm-hmm.

Peter Crouch 35:44 So for when I, when I come back for 10 million pounds and I'd, I'd, I'd already played in the Champions League final, I'd played in the World Cup, I'd achieved things that nobody in that Tottenham sort of dressing room at the time would, would say I would achieve. I wasn't even good enough for t- you know, to play in their first team, which is correct at the time. So to come back, it felt like unfinished business, if you like. So, so then when I scored some important goals for Spurs and we got into the Champions League for the first time and we had good success, um, that felt like, it, it was a, almost like a coming home, if you like.

Steven Bartlett 36:20 And that ended little bit too abruptly for your liking?

Peter Crouch 36:22 A bit, yeah. Yeah, it did. Um, I, I liked it at Spurs. It was, it was funny because I, uh...It was deadline day and, um, they- Harry Redknapp was talking about bringing Emmanuel Adebayor in. And it's funny how it works for a footballer, but I, I went to work, call it work for now, (laughs) and I left Abby and, and the kids and I said, um, "I'll see, I'll see you this afternoon." And then, this af- this afternoon never came. I never came home. And I just gave her a call and said we live in Stoke now. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 36:59 (laughs)

Peter Crouch 36:59 It's the life of a footballer. I was happy, I had a two-year contract left at, at Tottenham, but I was de- you know, s- a bid came in of, of £10 million for a 30-year-old. And I could understand from a club's perspective that they wanted to accept the offer, they wanted to bring Adebayor in. And I spoke to Harry and he said, "Obviously, yeah, we do wanna bring Adebayor in, but Daniel Levy wants to accept this bid." Um, obviously I wasn't happy about it. You know, I was happy where I was, I was at a great club and I, and I wanted to stay. But, um, certain bits and pieces happened and, uh, I said to Ab, "We're, uh, we're on the move." (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 37:39 How does Daniel... He's a, a figure that's talked about a lot as being quite a tough-

Peter Crouch 37:44 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 37:44 ... tough guy.

Peter Crouch 37:45 Yeah, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 37:45 Does, does very, um... What's the word? Tough business. That's what I hear a lot.

Peter Crouch 37:51 Well, listen, this is, you know, it's diary of a CEO, right?

Steven Bartlett 37:53 Yeah.

Peter Crouch 37:53 If I was running a football club, I'd probably have him in charge.

Steven Bartlett 37:56 Really?

Peter Crouch 37:57 Yeah. Uh, he, he's a harsh businessman, right? But he's looking after, you know, a billion-pound asset. You know, he's, he's not necessarily the owner, but he's running it like it's his own. Um, and I think I understand that. Like, the, the bid of 10 million came in for me, I'm a, I'm an asset to the business and I know I'm a person-

Steven Bartlett 38:21 Hmm.

Peter Crouch 38:21 ... but if you look at it purely from, from a business perspective, I'm a depreciating asset at 30 years old, potentially. I went on to 38 to be fair, but (laughs) -

Steven Bartlett 38:34 (laughs)

Peter Crouch 38:34 ... in his eyes maybe.

Steven Bartlett 38:35 Mm-hmm.

Peter Crouch 38:35 Um, Wilson Palacios was, was another six million to go, so that's 16 million they're getting for... It's good money, it's good business-

Steven Bartlett 38:43 Mm-hmm.

Peter Crouch 38:43 ... potentially. But, you know, I'm not, I'm not stupid either, so I had two years left on my deal and-

Steven Bartlett 38:50 You must have had his up in bent over.

Peter Crouch 38:52 Well, well, if you think about it, he's getting 16 million, right?

Steven Bartlett 38:57 Yeah. (laughs)

Peter Crouch 38:57 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 38:57 You just sound like the mad shit with your arms crossed. (laughs)

Peter Crouch 38:59 It's, um, it's not-

Steven Bartlett 39:00 (laughs)

Peter Crouch 39:00 Yeah, it's not like I know what he's getting, you know, so ...

Steven Bartlett 39:05 (laughs)

Peter Crouch 39:05 I- I'm entitled to, to see someone out if you want me to leave. Um, and listen, I didn't get that much obviously, but-

Steven Bartlett 39:12 Yeah. (laughs)

Peter Crouch 39:12 ... I did okay and it worked out for, for both of us. Um, but I don't know as well, I don't think there's many people that come out of um, maybe an incident like that with Daniel Levy and come out smiling, um, because he is, he is harsh. Um, but like I say, you know, I had my running with him and there were times where I said, "No, it's okay, I'm happy. I'll see you in the morning. I'm happy at Tottenham." I was comfortable there and I just said, "I'll see you in the morning." And, uh, you know, I suppose you've got to be prepared to hang up the phone and say, and say that. Um, and then he kept coming back and telling me that I wouldn't get a sh- a squad number, uh, I wouldn't, um, I'll be training with the kids, trying to make my life difficult. Uh, and I was like, "No problem." Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 39:54 What was that initial conversation? He calls you in and says you're off. Do they not say the... I'm, I'm interested in the world of football, like, 'cause in the world I'm from, in business, there's a high degree of empathy.

Peter Crouch 40:05 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 40:05 It's a very, you know, conversation, there's performance reviews. It's very... But we don't have a, an impending deadline day either-

Peter Crouch 40:11 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 40:11 ... so I'm just trying to figure out if it's like a, "Go get your stuff, you're off," or if it's a-

Peter Crouch 40:16 But I think, I think it, I think it would be different if you did have a deadline day. You know, if you're-

Steven Bartlett 40:20 (laughs) Yeah. Yeah.

Peter Crouch 40:20 Right?

Steven Bartlett 40:21 Yeah.

Peter Crouch 40:21 People will get stuff done on that day.

Steven Bartlett 40:22 (laughs) Yeah.

Peter Crouch 40:23 So I, I, I think, you know, that rushes people obviously, but, um, yeah, definitely you're seeing like, there's a, there's this, there's this whole thing about a player should show loyalty and... But there's also, works both ways, you know. There, uh, you know, club, clubs at times, uh, if you aren't performing or you're maybe having, I don't know, issues or problems off the field, uh, sometimes that side of it doesn't get shown as well, you know-

Steven Bartlett 40:50 Mm-hmm.

Peter Crouch 40:50 ... where the club will, will quite happily get rid of you. Um, so yeah, it works, it works both ways. Um, but yeah, the, y- unfortunately the, the business that they're in is fi- is finding and selling players and winning football matches, and it is a ruthless industry. Um, but I went into that, I realized that very quickly, to be quite honest. Um, but I'll, I'll went into that with, with open eyes.

Steven Bartlett 41:14 Do you re- do you regret leaving Liverpool?

Peter Crouch 41:16 Yeah. I do a bit. I had a gr- I had a great time at Portsmouth though, so, and some of those memories were, will stay with me forever. But leaving Liverpool is a difficult thing to do. And, um, I was playing for England at the time and I was loving playing for England. I was playing well, and I just thought... We signed Fernando Torres, and I'm, I'm pragmatic. I understand my role, if you know what I mean. As a player, he was better than me, right? So what do I do now? Uh, he's always gonna play. He formed a great partnership with Steven Gerrard. Um, he's on absolute fire. I still believe in myself, I still believe I can play for England. I'm still a g- very good player. I'm just not on Torres' level. So I think he's not... He just wasn't getting injured the whole time I was there. And then, you know, I'd left and then he, he was sold quite quickly to, to Chelsea. And I saw players obviously that were, were playing.

Steven Bartlett 42:12 Andy Carroll.

Peter Crouch 42:13 Yeah. I mean, you know, Andy Carroll, Bla- you know, there was Voronin and Gog, players that, um, that I felt that, you know, I, basically, I felt like I should, I could have played. Um, now having said that, I've never looked back. I've not looked back on any of... Like, people even say to me now, like, "Do you miss football?" No, I don't miss football. That was a time that I had that was the best. And I look back-... with such fond memories of it. Same at Liverpool. I don't think, "Oh, should have played there for 10 years." It would have been nice, but it was that... I still cherish the, the moments that I had with Liverpool. And also, the people... I met some great people at Portsmouth and it's a s- such a good club. And that was just off the back of winning the FA Cup, and I really thought we'd get into the, to the Champion's League, our team was that good. So, it was a, it was a... It gave me the opportunity to play and to enjoy my football and to carry on playing for England. So, do I regret it? It's the one thing I look back on and think, "Could I have stayed and could I've... I've been at top, top club for longer." But I loved my time at Portsmouth as well.

Steven Bartlett 43:18 You mentioned Gerrard there. And I've, I've seen you, um, talk about Lampard and Beckham and Gerrard and Carragher. What was it that made those individuals great in your view? What did you see?

Peter Crouch 43:33 I saw something in, like in those players that, uh, that was slightly different to me, like, I'm not gonna... I enjoyed what I was doing. Like, I looked at the t- the top, top level players that I played with, and they never looked like they enjoyed it, ever. Like, yeah, Gerrard, Carragher, I'd class in that, John Terry, Lampard, like they... It, it was always the next game, you know? And I think that's the top level mentality you need to have. Like, for me, at times I'd go, "We've, oh, we've won this, lads. Let's enjoy this one a little bit." Because we had a massive game on Tuesday, they would already be thinking about, yeah, that was good, but it's about the next one. It's always about the next one. And I admire that in people. Um, and I, I had a, I had a steely mentality, but I also thought, "What are we doing it for?" You know, what... Yeah, of course, it's about winning trophies. But also, it's about this moment. We've just won, like, a huge game, like, in the last minute, let's celebrate this moment and deal with tomorrow, tomorrow. Whereas sometimes the top level players-

Steven Bartlett 44:45 Like who?

Peter Crouch 44:46 Yeah, like Steven Gerrard. Prime example of that. Um, just the constant... There w- it looked like there was, there was no enjoyment. Obviously, there was enjoyment at times, but it felt like it was just the next game was, was more important than enjoying this one. And yeah, of course, it was, but I was always a little bit like, "Can we not just enjoy this one a little bit?" Um, which is, you know, I think separates the... I'd, I'd class myself as an elite sportsman, I played at the top level, but I'm talking top, top. Um, and that's why they're who they are.

Steven Bartlett 45:25 Were they intense?

Peter Crouch 45:27 So intense, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's what... But I think that's what separates people, isn't it? I think, you know, you've got to want to, um, sacrifice everything and, you know, I did when I was, when I was younger and I did throughout my career. But what I'm saying is that it's that 0.5%, that 1% difference of, um, of just already thinking about the next game of... You know, managers do it, um, and as players sometimes we, of course, enjoy that win and, and think about the next game when it, when it comes. But the top level players that I've played with, like you say, Lampard, John Terry, Steven Gerrard, Jamie Carragher are put in that, you know, the, the, the Man United boys, like the, the consistent winners are the ones that I think look like they don't enjoy it and, um, because they are constantly battling for the next, the next thing.

Steven Bartlett 46:21 What we c- I r- I read that you said, um, some players couldn't s- deal with the intensity of a Steven Gerrard and a Carragher.

Peter Crouch 46:27 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 46:27 And that you also were much more orientated to try and please them-

Peter Crouch 46:31 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 46:31 ... than the manager, which I think was Rafa at the time. Was that Rafa Benitez?

Peter Crouch 46:33 Yeah, that's right, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 46:34 You were trying to please... More concerned with pleasing Carragher and Gerrard who were the, you know, like club captain, captain whatever of the team, than the manager.

Peter Crouch 46:42 Yeah, that's true.

Steven Bartlett 46:44 I'm tryna, I'm tryna put myself into the changing room and s- and, and understand why that is. What were they doing?

Peter Crouch 46:49 Um, they're local boys, right? They're, they're legends at the club. Um, when I think of Liverpool, I think of Steven Gerrard and, and Jamie Carragher. Um, like Rafa Benitez, I suppose, was a top manager and he signed me and I, you know, I, I got only good words to say about him. But Steven Gerrard and Jamie, like, they're absolute legends of the club and, um, quite ruthless in their... and, and quite harsh in their appraisal of some players. Uh, so I found myself in, constantly seeking their approval and my training was... You know, I always remember the first training session when Steve wrapped a ball into my f- into my feet and I, I mis-controlled one. And it's like, it's like a wrong look would be, "You know, you don't do that here. You're at Liverpool now." It's one, one bad touch isn't tolerated here (laughs) , you know. It's that... It's only a look, but it was enough to, to make me not do that again, you know. That, that kind of standards are different, um, and I think you get that from, from certain players like, like Steven and, and Jamie.

Steven Bartlett 48:01 Would they go at individuals in the changing room?

Peter Crouch 48:03 Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 48:03 Really?

Peter Crouch 48:04 I mean, it's their club, you know, and I think some people didn't understand that, um, the level of passion that they had for, for the club. Uh, and like there's players that aren't... You know, everyone's different, like, you, you'll know only so well, like, in a, in a place of work ev- there's no two character the same, you know? So you need to know what, what makes people tick. And, um, some people couldn't understand the level of, uh, of passion that they had for the club, of, uh, standards that they had. Um, they might have come from a more relaxed club, but-... unfortunately, if you want to play for Liverpool, you have to have a certain, um, way about you and a certain standard. And if you fall below that, below that standard, then players like Steven and Jamie would, would tell you very quickly.

Steven Bartlett 48:56 In front of everyone?

Peter Crouch 48:57 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've seen, I've seen players be signed and been written off in one training session. (laughs) You know?

Steven Bartlett 49:04 Really?

Peter Crouch 49:04 15 million pound players coming in and like, "He's shit." (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 49:08 Really? What, and never like...

Peter Crouch 49:11 No. I mean, that was, you, you wouldn't get many chances. Um, but that, then I've also seen players be written off and then come back, which, um, which obviously in their eyes would, would, would make them a good, good fit for, for

Peter Crouch 49:27 Liverpool.

Steven Bartlett 49:28 What do you think of Liverpool right now?

Peter Crouch 49:30 Uh-

Steven Bartlett 49:31 Got the new Nunez guy coming.

Peter Crouch 49:32 Yeah. I, I, I, I like Nunez. I think, you know, he's a bit, yeah, I think it's gonna take him time to settle in. I don't think we've seen the best of him yet. But, um, as a club, what Jürgen Klopp's done there, you got to think. I look at young kids now who just expect Liverpool to win champ- the Champions League or win the li- the leagues.

Steven Bartlett 49:49 (laughs)

Peter Crouch 49:49 Um, you know, it's been 30 odd years before that, i- it was a long time. And Jürgen Klopp's just changed the DNA back into, you know, where they were in the '80s. I mean, it's that, it's that good. And yeah, they're, they're struggling a little bit now. Um, but what he's done for our football club is, has been nothing short of incredible. And, you know, we had some great players at my time at the club, but, um, you know, what they've done as a group has surpassed anything that, um, you know, that, that spell I had has, had done.

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Steven Bartlett 52:16 Jürgen, Rafa, um, how many managers did you work, work under in your time?

Peter Crouch 52:21 Um, god, there's loads over the years.

Steven Bartlett 52:24 Almost 10?

Peter Crouch 52:25 God, that's probably more than that.

Steven Bartlett 52:27 Ten?

Peter Crouch 52:27 Probably more than that.

Steven Bartlett 52:28 For you, from working with more than ten footballing managers at var- varying different levels, and also at the very, very top of international and Premier League football, what made a really good manager?

Peter Crouch 52:38 Um, I, I think there's lots of ways to manage and, you know, I did my coaching badges just before I, I retired, and you try and use a little bit of the good stuff out of, out of everyone. But you know obviously like Rafa very tactically. Um, Harry, Harry Redknapp was a great people person, you know. Like he understood people and what they wanted, and, uh, he made it a nice sort of environment, you know. Sven was the same, was so relaxed. You know, in a pressured environment when you were going into a World Cup, you just, the, Sven had that aura of calmness around you which you, you needed. Um, so like, yeah, great managers that I've had along the way. Um, but very, very different qualities in, in all of them.

Steven Bartlett 53:21 What

Steven Bartlett 53:22 about the, the opposite? What was the instances where you thought, "That's not good management"?

Peter Crouch 53:26 Um, well, there were certain things like, uh, you know, with Raf or Rafa, there was a tendency to be too intricate, to be too, um, methodical, too, um, precise at times. Um, if you could mix a little bit of Rafa and a bit of Harry together, I feel like you'd have the perfect manager. Because with, with Rafa it was like we're playing Wolves at home and we've got Steven Gerrard, Xabi Alonso, uh, Fernando Torres, we've got the best back four in the league at the moment, um, and one of the best goalkeepers. Just go out and beat them. You know, like, I don't, I don't think it's that difficult. I don't think you have to play with a couple of holding midfield players and you have to have all, you know, this, what we do if we don't have ... Just go and beat them. We're at Anfield, let's go and express ourselves. Um, and that was my only criticism, you know, like that, that I could have. I think there was too many times where we were thinking about the opposition instead of then, "We're Liverpool, let's go and, let's go out and, and batter them." (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 54:27 Who was the best manager

Steven Bartlett 54:28 you played for?

Peter Crouch 54:29 Um, what is, you know, there's so many reasons for, for each one. Gerry Francis gave me my debut. Graham Rix was a big influence on my, on my career. Um, you know, there was good qualities of, of Sven. I thought Rafa was, at times, was-... incredible in some of the work they did, some of the sessions and some of the s- things tactically were, were really eye-opening. Um, but Harry Redknapp was ... I, I don't think I'd be sitting here without him, um, just because he un- he understood football, he understood a player and he understood how to get the best out of you. And I think he got the best out of me, uh, certainly at, at Portsmouth, you know, at Southampton. At Southampton, I was struggling. I thought, "I've just had a, a, a horrible time at Aston Villa. This isn't my time in the Premier League and it's not going well. I'm not playing." The manager leaves, Harry comes in and he goes, you know, "This is my last chance," Saloon. And I'm thinking, "Right, well maybe I'm just a Championship player." Harry comes in, it just changes like that. He says, "You and Kevin Phillips will be in my front two, uh, for the rest of the season. You'll score us enough goals for us to stay up." And, uh, just that confidence, that belief and w- like ... I suppose I, uh, I felt my height for, you know, for the first time that season.

Steven Bartlett 55:50 Mm-hmm.

Peter Crouch 55:51 And I went out and scored 16 goals, I think, after Christmas. I was on absolute fire, got in the England squad and moved to Liverpool at the end of the year. Um, so that, that little spell of six months was crucial, um, to my development as a, as a player and as a person. And would I be sitting here without that? You know, there's lots of things you look at, you know, would I be, would I be here without that, without that? And there's lots of really key important moments and that was definitely one of them, Harry coming in.

Steven Bartlett 56:21 It's crazy how much just, like, someone believing in you at some point, when maybe you don't believe in yourself, can have such a huge impact on how you behave and then-

Peter Crouch 56:28 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 56:29 ... ultimately what results you get.

Peter Crouch 56:30 Yeah, if you're get- if you're getting told that you're, you know, you're this and you're that, you're no good, you're ... it's not ... I don't, I don't think ... You have to be a real strong character to, to be able to, to cope with that. Um, and when someone comes in and goes, "Actually no, you're, you're doing great stuff, you know, keep ..." Like, th- yeah, it, it lifts you. It does, it makes you feel, it makes you feel better and, um, you know, that's the way I would manage and that's the way I think you have to manage these days. I think players are, are different to, to, to, to how it was when I was coming through. It was very much quite a harsh industry and I think now players are a bit more ... You have to be a bit more of an arm around the shoulder guy-

Steven Bartlett 57:08 Mm-hmm.

Peter Crouch 57:09 ... than a, you know, um, crack-the-whip kind of manager.

Steven Bartlett 57:13 When I've sat here with, like, Patrice and-

Peter Crouch 57:15 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 57:15 Patrice Evra, Gary Neville, Roy Ferdinand, they all say the same thing about Sir Alex. Th- the first comment they'll make when you ask why he was so good, they all say man management.

Peter Crouch 57:23 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 57:23 And they tell this story of how he was kind of this bespoke, almost like a unique shaped jigsaw piece for each person. So for Nanny, he was one Sir Alex Ferguson and for, like, for Gary Neville he was a different shape, because he understood everybody and understood which buttons to press, how hard he could press to get the best out of them. And we tend to think of, like, management as one, being one thing, like, being one, uh, one person to everybody. But f- even from what you've said there and what they've told me, it seems that great management as being like a bit of a shape shifter, depending on who you're dealing with.

Peter Crouch 57:54 I think that is exactly right. I think you've hit the nail on the head there. Uh, and the boys that, you know, y- you talk about there of, uh ... It's spot on because you can't treat everyone the s- sort of same way. You can't even train the same way. If you go in ... You know, you're telling all, all the players to go in the gym and, you know, do this, do a certain weight or, you know, be a certain speed, you can't ... It's ... Everyone is different, everyone's a different character, everyone's a different mold as a player. Um, you know, certain players you can ... Like Cantona for instance, you talk about Sir Alex Ferguson, you know, not many players could, could handle Cantona. Alex Ferguson got the best out of Cantona because he treated him different to how he would treat Gary Neville. And it's not, you know, it's not rocket science but it's, it's something, it's a quality that not many people have. They're not able to adapt just like, "This is my management style, everyone has to fall in line with it." I, I, I don't think as a manager that is the best way to go about things. It's about adapting to, to people that you might need to speak to on a regular basis, certain people you might need to tell, you know, sh- some home truths, certain people that you might need to, um, you know, constantly get into the office or, you know, let someone else deal with him potentially. You know, you might spot a problem that he might have off the field that needs addressing. You know, there's so many factors to being a manager, um, and I think Alex Ferguson was, well, he's proven to be the best at that.

Steven Bartlett 59:17 Reminds me of watching that, uh, Netflix documentary about Michael Jordan called The Last Dance.

Peter Crouch 59:22 Mm. Brilliant.

Steven Bartlett 59:23 Bri- brilliant, fucking, that changed my life that.

Peter Crouch 59:24 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 59:24 I think I, like, I've got like a Michael Jordan thing upstairs 'cause of that.

Peter Crouch 59:27 Oh yeah, yeah. I always ... You know, when people ask me if I was a basketball player I actually wanted to be then (laughs) .

Steven Bartlett 59:32 (laughs)

Peter Crouch 59:32 It was, uh, no, a phenomenal documentary, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 59:35 Changed, really, really changed ... I'd, should I be honest, and people will be surprised to hear this, I understood that Michael Jordan made shoes but I didn't really know who he was before then.

Peter Crouch 59:42 Really?

Steven Bartlett 59:42 And when I watched that it was one of those ones where you put it on and you watch the whole thing in one sitting. I was ... It changed my life, genuinely.

Peter Crouch 59:48 Well, yeah, you're, you're younger than me.

Steven Bartlett 59:50 Yeah, yeah (laughs) .

Peter Crouch 59:50 I remember him clear as day, you know-

Steven Bartlett 59:52 Oh, really?

Peter Crouch 59:52 ... playing with the Bulls, yeah. I mean, he, I think is the greatest sportsman that's, uh, that's ever been. It's a controversial statement, you know, there's so many sportsmen out there but what Michael Jordan did was, was, was unbelievable and that, like ... I love that kind of mentality, going into that mentality of, like, winning at all costs and, um, watching that Bulls team. 'Cause it wasn't just Jordan, like-

Steven Bartlett 1:00:13 Mm-hmm.

Peter Crouch 1:00:14 Th- that, that whole, that whole team was, was special.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:17 That's what I was talk- I was gonna say, like, Dennis Rodman, he was a character where-

Peter Crouch 1:00:20 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:20 Which sounds a lot, much like Cantona in a way where-

Peter Crouch 1:00:21 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:22 ... he would go on benders for a couple of days-

Peter Crouch 1:00:23 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:23 ... and the manager goes, "Listen ..." (laughs)

Peter Crouch 1:00:25 That's Dennis.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:25 That's Dennis (laughs) . Could you imagine?

Peter Crouch 1:00:27 And so honestly though, like-

Steven Bartlett 1:00:28 And they won everything. Yeah.

Peter Crouch 1:00:30 No exactly, but, like, I, that's what I'm saying, like, could you ... Dennis was a huge part defensively of that set up with the Bulls and, uh, if you didn't have him, if you didn't ... And I know letting him ... I think this is obviously like, you know, like probably too far, but letting him go to Vegas for a couple of weeks, at least you get Dennis back for those games at the end that are important. And I think it's obviously ridiculous for him to do that but ...... that was his, in his makeup. That was in his DNA and, you know, is it, is it better for you to let him go to a rival or do you, do you accept that and win the, win the titles they did?

Steven Bartlett 1:01:08 All the great managers, like the ones we've talked about, seemed to have instances where they were okay to make an exception. I guess the risk is, what message does that send to the other players?

Peter Crouch 1:01:18 Hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:18 It's almost a bit of an unfairness. If, how can... If Cantona or Dennis Rodman or whoever can go and do that, yet you're having me fucking show up every day and you're pressing me in a different way, that's not fair.

Peter Crouch 1:01:27 Well, yeah. I, I, I totally agree with you.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:29 Yeah.

Peter Crouch 1:01:30 Um, but I don't know if the boys told this story last time, but, um, you know the story of, of, of Ryan Giggs, um, when he turned up for a team event and he's got no tie on. And Eric Cantona walks in with no tie and a pair of trainers in. And, uh, Alex Ferguson's obviously absolutely, you know, caned Ryan Giggs and told him to go home and get, get a tie on, like, "Who do you think you are?" Eric walks in, sits down, doesn't say a word. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:01:52 (laughs) Really?

Peter Crouch 1:01:54 Yeah. Because-

Steven Bartlett 1:01:57 (laughs)

Peter Crouch 1:01:58 (laughs) ... it's Eric Cantona, you know. And I think Ryan Giggs was just as, just as capable of, of winning a football match as Eric Cantona. But where you do... Where, where this does fall down is when those players stop performing, and I've seen that. I've seen players get treated differently and that's fine until they're not Eric Cantona, they're not Michael Jordan, they're not Tiger Woods. They're not constantly winning games for you. Because if you set yourself up like that, you, you better perform.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:30 Hmm.

Peter Crouch 1:02:30 And although quite often they can because they're top players. But you are, you are creating a problem for yourself, I think, if you, if you don't c- consistently deliver. But maybe that's the reason they do consistently deliver, because they are wired up differently to a lot of the rest of us.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:48 Which kind of makes

Steven Bartlett 1:02:49 me think about Ronaldo and what happened the other week with him storming down the tunnel, et cetera, et cetera.

Peter Crouch 1:02:53 Hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:53 Now me and my friends in our group chat, we all have kind of different points of view on it. You know, people are saying, "Oh, Sir Alex would've let him do that, this..." Whatever, whatever, whatever. For a... As someone that's been inside the changing room and probably seen mo- seen moments where a certain player was being disruptive, what was your read on that situation and the impact of it?

Peter Crouch 1:03:12 Well, uh, it's... In all honesty, it's nothing new. I think it's because it's Ronaldo it's a huge story. But I've seen it over the course of my career that players who aren't playing, we call it throwing the toys out the pram. Um, you know, being, uh, disruptive, uh, letting their feelings be known that they're not happy with the situation. Um, as players, it's constantly happening so you, you don't worry. Because it's Ronaldo it's, it's blown out of proportion. Um, I've seen it many times. I've seen it with a particular player. We were playing in p- a preseason match. He just walked off the pitch while we're playing. (laughs) And I'm like, you know, "This is absolutely ridiculous." He's literally walked in, we're down to 10 men. No one even noticed he'd gone for the first-

Steven Bartlett 1:03:54 (laughs)

Peter Crouch 1:03:55 ... couple of minutes. And, um, just, yeah, like just, just, just fuming. Um, but my take on the situation is, I, I think it's disrespectful to the players that are playing still. They've just won. Um, or just they were winning at the time. Uh, I think it was something that he probably regrets, um, and I think it's something that the manager dealt with and I, and I think dealt with well.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:22 Yeah. That's what I was gonna say, because I remember you saying that good managers that you've worked with could keep the respect.

Peter Crouch 1:04:27 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:27 And that being a keyword, respect. Now if he doesn't deal with that properly-

Peter Crouch 1:04:32 Without a doubt. Yeah, I mean, listen, players are on every little moment. Like, if you don't know the answer to a particular question, lie, and lie well, because players will, if they, if they sense an element of you being unsure about a situation, they'll pounce on it. Um, you know-

Steven Bartlett 1:04:46 You're talking about a manager? Is it-

Peter Crouch 1:04:47 I'm talking about management, managers. You know, players... If, if you're, if you're a manager and you don't have control of the dressing room at all times, it's, it's hard to come back from that. Like, you need to command respect and, um, it's a harsh industry. Like, lots of players with egos, uh, and trying to manage players that aren't playing with those egos is a tough thing to do. And when you've got someone of the stature of Ronaldo, like, managing him not playing in the dressing room is a difficult thing to do. You know, put yourself in Ten Hag's shoes. It's a, it's a situation where the club have, I think, I believe, told him he, he has to stay because they wanna play him. Now he's not playing and the window is shut. How do you deal with that problem? It's, it's gonna be a huge issue. But I felt he dealt with it well. I think the club potentially didn't deal with it very, very well. If he wasn't gonna play, they should've, they should've sold him. But they're now in that situation where, yeah, he's done that. He's been fined, I assume. And he's been dropped from the next squad. But it looks like he's potentially g- getting back in, um, and that is what is, is the best situation for the club because you, you don't want Ronaldo training with the kids away from the, um, away from the first team. You want him in and around it because he'll be an asset potentially at the end of games or, or, or to start some games.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:07 I'm really compelled by that point you made about, like, as a manager, if you don't know the answer-

Peter Crouch 1:06:11 Hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:12 ... to maybe a strategic thing, you're better off just lying than, like, losing the control of the room.

Peter Crouch 1:06:18 Well, like, say if, if you... In your industry, right?

Steven Bartlett 1:06:20 Yeah.

Peter Crouch 1:06:21 If an employee of yours asks you-

Steven Bartlett 1:06:24 Yeah.

Peter Crouch 1:06:24 ... "What should we do here?" I, I don't know if it's as cutthroat as football. But I, I, I think it's better to have an answer-

Steven Bartlett 1:06:33 Yeah.

Peter Crouch 1:06:33 ... than to say you don't know.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:35 Yeah, yeah.

Peter Crouch 1:06:35 Right? So...

Steven Bartlett 1:06:37 Even if you don't know because it's giving them confidence.

Peter Crouch 1:06:39 E- even if you don't know, you say, "We're looking into that. We've worked on that." You know, "That's something that we're..." You know, just make... The moment you say you don't know, I think there's an element of, um-

Steven Bartlett 1:06:50 (laughs)

Peter Crouch 1:06:50 ... "He hasn't got a clue."

Steven Bartlett 1:06:52 "We've forgot." Yeah. (laughs)

Peter Crouch 1:06:52 (laughs) You know what I mean?

Steven Bartlett 1:06:53 There's no sat-nav here.

Peter Crouch 1:06:54 Yeah. Basically, yeah, I think. And I think it was Guardiola who said it.... um, you know, these wise words didn't come from me personally.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:00 Yeah.

Peter Crouch 1:07:00 They were, they were Guardiola's words, and I think it was something to do with, um, if someone asks you a question, you have an answer for them. Um, r- even if you don't know it, you'll, you'll go do your homework and come back to, to that question because you, you need to be seen as a level above, um, the players. Uh, you need to have, you know, more... You need to be more clued up. You need to have more, um, intricate details on the opposition. You need to know about football more than the players do, um, so they have that respect for you.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:28 Was there other times... You know, you talked about losing the dressing room?

Peter Crouch 1:07:31 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:31 Now, I hear that on, like, from pundits. I hear, "Oh, maybe he's lost the dressing room." You sometimes hear that from, like, other commentators online. But I, I wondered if that's an actual thing that happens, that you've observed, where you go, "Manager's fucking lost this now." Players start questioning him, y- you know, behind his back or...

Peter Crouch 1:07:45 Yeah. I think, I think you can see it. Um...

Steven Bartlett 1:07:48 When did you see it?

Peter Crouch 1:07:49 Uh, I've seen it at certain times. I don't think it'd be fair to me, for, for me to say names, um, but I ha- I have seen it in certain dressing rooms where, uh, a, a manager has lost, lost it a little bit. Um, we had, we had a situation at Stoke where we had probably the best dressing room I've ever been a part of, and then we added, s- sort of some more talented players, more than sort of hardworking, honest players, if you like. Uh, and we had a, uh, for a spell, we had a really good mix of that real quality and that kind of determination and spirit. Um, and then it went too far the other way, which is, you know, was almost too much quality and not enough effort, determination, team spirit, ethics, standards. They slipped, you know, and I was seeing things that I'd never seen before. Um, I, I talked about the player walking off the pitch, that happened in that, in that season. And it culminated in, in relegation, you know. So when you talk about lost the dressing room, I

Narrator 1:08:56 (murmurs)

Peter Crouch 1:08:57 ... I class myself in that, in that scenario 'cause I was more of a... I was an older player then, and maybe I let things go, things go a bit as well. You know, like, uh, there's... Not my standards personally didn't drop, but I let people get away with things when I was an older player. Like, I should've been the Steven Gerrard in this situation, you know? I should've been the player that flagged it up maybe. Um, that wrangles with me, like I, I let things go. I know it wasn't my job to do that, but I was a, an experienced player. Um-

Steven Bartlett 1:09:31 When you say y- you've not seen... You saw things you hadn't seen before.

Peter Crouch 1:09:34 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:34 It kind of reminded me somewhat of what I remember Rio saying about when he moved to, I think it was QPR, from Manchester United, and he saw just a completely different dressing room culture.

Peter Crouch 1:09:43 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Exactly right. Unless... I, I'm friends with Rio. I speak to him about that time. Feels similar, feels similar in some ways, like, you, you have almost two, too many, um, doing what they want, um, you know, just being late or little, little things like that, like, being, being late, being late on the training pitch, being late, um, for games, you know, not wearing the right suit or not wearing the right tracksuit to games, wearing whatever they want, you know, wearing caps when you're not supposed to. Um, just little things like that makes you become lax. Like, and we, we might go a goal down, two goals down, and you can see players sort of, you know, waving their arms around and not tracking back. And I remember asking a particular player, like, "You stopped trying. You stopped working." And he said, "Yeah." I said, "W- what?" (laughs) And he said, "I did, yeah." I said, "Why?" He said, "We were three down." (laughs) I couldn't believe it. That's, you know, 30,000 people in a stadium, right, that pay to watch us play, and you've given up. And, and I know it's h- it's horrible, those games. They're horrible. You're just... But at least you gotta do is run round. Um, and, and, and that's, that's when I knew we were in big trouble.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:02 It's funny that it's the small, the small things.

Peter Crouch 1:11:04 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:05 Like, just run-

Peter Crouch 1:11:05 They all add up.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:06 Yeah.

Peter Crouch 1:11:07 They all add up.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:09 Does that not start with the manager, though? In those situations where the manager's just not calling it out enough, he's not punishing... You know, he lets one thing slide, lets two things slide. Before you know it, you're at the bottom of the fucking slope.

Peter Crouch 1:11:19 Yeah. That was exactly what happened. Um, there was certain things that were let go, and you're like, "Whoa." And then you feel like you can get away with more, with more, with more. And there was a certain thing where w- you'd have to run after a game if you didn't play. So at that time, like, I was on... I was 37 years old, you know, I was... Sometimes I was on the bench, and I'd be out there running, and, you know, there was a younger player not, not out after the game doing his fitness work. And I came in, I'm like, "What's going on?" You know? (laughs) "Why, why am I 37, I'm out here running after a game, and this 25-year-old is, is not?" So he didn't want to.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:57 He didn't want to?

Peter Crouch 1:11:58 Didn't want to. Right? So these, these are the standards I'm s- I'm talking about, so... But you've got to. That's th- that, that's... You've been asked to do it.

Steven Bartlett 1:12:06 (laughs)

Peter Crouch 1:12:07 You don't s- you don't pick and choose whether you do it or not. But that was allowed to happen. Anyway, it happened again. Anyway, this particular player said, "Right, because he hasn't run after, um,