Reggie Yates Reveals The Secret To Staying Driven & Reaching Your Potential | E90

1. 0:00 – 2:13

   Intro

   1. SBSteven Bartlett0:00

      Reggie Yates. He's a critically acclaimed filmmaker, a writer, a director, and an entrepreneur.

   2. RYReggie Yates0:05

      The first time I saw a machine gun was in my estate at, like, nine years old when the police were raiding a flat on my floor because there was all kinds of craziness there. And we were just playing on the balcony. As a teenager presenting kids TV with Air Force 1s and a Mecha Traxxas, it says something. I'm on the BBC, and I'm dressed like the boys that you cross the street from. Subsequently, you know, I've had kids come up to me, "Bro, I loved watching you because we dressed the same, we talked the same, and you were doing that." And when people say things like that to you, strangers, it's so powerful. Uh, for me, empowering others is a huge part of my drive right now, working with young, talented people. And I love that I have that relationship with people because I never had it growing up. There was always a distance between me and the person that was helping guide me. Shortening that distance, for me, in the lives of others, is what success feels like.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett1:03

      Reggie Yates. He's a critically acclaimed filmmaker, a writer, a director, and an entrepreneur. And over the last three decades, he's been on our screens. And through that time, the world has changed, the platforms have changed, and he has certainly changed. He's been involved in scandals, wild success, and unfortunate failure. Reggie's work as a filmmaker is extraordinarily diverse, and he's traveled across the world, meeting those that have oppressed and those that have been oppressed. And this conversation is the same, incredibly diverse. We'll touch on everything from love, relationship struggles, family, mental health, ambition, cancel culture, and everything in between. Thank you, Reggie. Thank you for your honesty, because I know that the people that are about to listen to this podcast are gonna take a tremendous amount of important value from it. So without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is the Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody is listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. Reggie, um,

2. 2:13 – 12:20

   Where do you come from?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett2:13

      location, environment, family. Where do you come from?

   2. RYReggie Yates2:18

      Um, I am the child of African immigrants. Uh, both my parents were born in Ghana and came to London as children. Uh, I was born on Tottenham Court Road.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett2:27

      Ah.

   4. RYReggie Yates2:27

      So I'm London, London, London.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett2:30

      (laughs)

   6. RYReggie Yates2:30

      And, um, I, I was raised in Holloway. I moved to South East London when I was 14, and at 18 I moved out, and I've been a Londoner ever since. And I say that because I've lived all over, you know? London's quite a tribal city-

   7. SBSteven Bartlett2:41

      Mm-hmm.

   8. RYReggie Yates2:41

      ... uh, between football and the club you support and the area that you're from and your connection to it. I've lived all over, and I call South London home now, even though I didn't start there and I didn't school there really.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett2:52

      Mm-hmm.

   10. RYReggie Yates2:52

       Um, but I love it there, and it's nice to return to the place that I spent a chunk of my teens.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett2:57

       So two parents from an African... uh, from Ghana.

   12. RYReggie Yates3:00

       Correct.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett3:01

       Ghana. They came here when they were?

   14. RYReggie Yates3:03

       Uh, my mother 11. I think my dad was maybe 15 or 16.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett3:06

       So tell me all about that and that experience, because I know that in terms of, like, education and perspective on the world-

   16. RYReggie Yates3:11

       Mm-hmm.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett3:11

       ... and all those things, from my own mum's experience, she, she couldn't read or write.

   18. RYReggie Yates3:14

       Right.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett3:15

       So we had a ton of wars growing up because I dropped out of university after one lecture, so we didn't speak for three years.

   20. RYReggie Yates3:20

       Right.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett3:20

       I know that African parents have a certain perspective, and I know, especially from reading about how you've handled things like fame-

   22. RYReggie Yates3:28

       Mm-hmm.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett3:28

       ... press, drugs, alcohol, and the avoidance of all th- all of those things-

   24. RYReggie Yates3:33

       Yeah.

   25. SBSteven Bartlett3:33

       ... I know o- or I feel like much of that must've come from those kind of values.

   26. RYReggie Yates3:37

       Yeah. Um, I'd say it's a, uh, a combination of things. It's a combination of the mentors that I chose, uh, the environment that I was in at home-

   27. SBSteven Bartlett3:45

       Mm-hmm.

   28. RYReggie Yates3:46

       ... uh, and that massively comes down to culture, you know? Um, and that's why I was really interested in your connection to Nigeria, because culturally for me, um, where my parents are from has informed massively, uh, in a lot of ways, my outlook.

   29. SBSteven Bartlett4:01

       Mm-hmm.

   30. RYReggie Yates4:01

       Um, and culturally, obviously, you know, uh, when you've got West African parents who were born there, um, uh, you're raised in an environment where education is everything because as far as they're aware, that is the only way to unlock, uh, another life for yourself. Uh, my grandparents came to this country in search of a better life for not just themselves, but their children, and ultimately us, their grandchildren, and it worked. You know, my mum got an education. Uh, I got an education to a point, and weirdly, my social education and my extracurricular activities have given me a career. So, um, more than anything, I think it's the values, uh, of an African house that have given me what I believe to be a healthy life, um, and I mean that in every sense of the word. Um, people talk to me a lot about being ground- grounded and understanding what being humble is, and I think when you've come from nothing, but at the same time you enjoy everything, um, it changes your perspective on what success looks like. And that was the house that I was raised in. We celebrated every day because we, uh, essentially were striving to be happy, and happiness didn't come from material goods. It came from success and achievement, uh, on a level that made everybody in the house proud as opposed to what was going on outside the family home, because culture was everything.
3. 12:20 – 20:35

   What factors made you break out of your environment

   1. SBSteven Bartlett12:20

   2. RYReggie Yates12:20

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett12:20

      But my question is do you un- do you know what the, those factors were that made you an outlier?

   4. RYReggie Yates12:25

      Yeah. Uh, I mean, uh, you sound as though you've done a lot of work on yourself. And in the little bit that I know about you-

   5. SBSteven Bartlett12:30

      (laughs) Well, this is it.

   6. RYReggie Yates12:31

      ... I can tell that you've-

   7. SBSteven Bartlett12:32

      I get to meet people and ask them- so I learn so much from these kinds of answers.

   8. RYReggie Yates12:35

      Right. And I've made documentaries for over 10 years.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett12:37

      Yeah. (laughs) Yeah, there you go.

   10. RYReggie Yates12:37

       So it's the same thing, you know. You learn so much from your environment if you're willing to drink in the information.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett12:42

       Yeah.

   12. RYReggie Yates12:42

       And I just, in thinking about between therapy and also being, um, present in moments like this, you know-

   13. SBSteven Bartlett12:50

       Mm-hmm.

   14. RYReggie Yates12:50

       ... yes, there are cameras, but I'm having a conversation-

   15. SBSteven Bartlett12:52

       Yeah.

   16. RYReggie Yates12:53

       ... with you and I'm learning from you. And that certainly was the case in 10 years of making films, you know, for the BBC. Um, so when it sort of comes to me looking at how I've become the person I am and how my journey has played out the way that it has done, it's an amalgamation of different moments and instances. But fundamentally, it comes down to a desire, even as a kid, to understand and be aware. And it's progressed into this idea of being present and understanding the moment that you're in and why you're there and, uh, and taking as much from the moment as possible. So as a child, I would always ask questions. And I was far too aware of my environment for my own good. So for instance, I'll, I'll never sort of forget going to my friend Kiran's ... Oh, no. Yeah, it was Kiran Buckley's house. I went to Kiran Buckley's house in Barnsbury and, um, uh, my mum was very protective, so she wouldn't let me play at friends' homes. I know you know how that goes.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett13:52

       Mm-hmm.

   18. RYReggie Yates13:52

       And I went to Kiran's and I was in the garden and he had this massive, massive, beautiful Islington garden with several trees in it. And I asked him, "How come you've got a park at the back of your house?" Um, and his mother sort of overheard and laughed a bit and it stayed with me. He was like, "That's not a park. My god, what are you talking about? Come on. Free it in. You're in goal, mate." And then you play this game, you don't think about it. And then I remember going back to my council estate and looking at the, the one tree that me and Corey used to climb and think, "I don't have what he has. Why is that?" And then you start to think about these things and then start to understand class and where you are. And even so far as the area, you know, I, I started to really recognize the power of my walk to school, even as a kid. Before I got to secondary school, I was like, "This is really weird." Like I live in a borough, Islington in North London, that has everything from council estates with immigrants and white working class, right the way through to multimillion pound houses. And I lived on, uh, a road called Liverpool Road, which is such a, it's such an important road that I haven't only, I've only become aware of how important that road is to my journey in recent years. So I lived at the Holloway end of Liverpool Road. And Liverpool Road is a long road that runs through Islington. And at the other end is Angel. And Angel gentrified years before Holloway did. Holloway's a very different place now. And they had a Waitrose, they had a Sainsbury's, and you had these gorgeous massive townhouses and, you know, if you deviated off Liverpool Road, you'd be in Barnsbury and there were these beautiful little village-y roads. And Holloway was where the people that I grew up around (laughs) lived.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett15:30

       Mm-hmm.

   20. RYReggie Yates15:30

       And you had these estates, you had every kind of madness you can imagine happening on my estate. Like, I remember my first, the first time I saw a machine gun was in my estate at, like, nine years old when the police were raiding a flat on my floor because there was all kinds of craziness there. I mean, you're just playing on the balcony on your estate on, on, on the floor that you live on, and you've got armed police there. You know, let alone the other times that you see other weapons or you see other things happen. Um, and those walks that I would go on where I would be like, "Wow, the bit that I live in versus the bit that I'm walking through versus the bit that I'm going to go to go to school, I know what bit I wanna live on, so I better start thinking about how I'm gonna get to that bit of the road."

   21. SBSteven Bartlett16:11

       It's so fascinating you'd say that. And it took me in my head back to, back to my own experiences being a kid and I ... This really vivid memory I have one day of looking up at the sky and seeing a plane, and then looking down at my street and thinking, "I wonder if all of these fam- this is what they wanted from their life." And then the plane for me was the juxtaposition between a family going on holiday. I'd never been on ... Like, other than coming from Africa-

   22. RYReggie Yates16:31

       Yeah.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett16:31

       ... we'd never been on holiday.

   24. RYReggie Yates16:33

       Yeah.

   25. SBSteven Bartlett16:33

       So I was thinking, "Oh my God, people are going on holiday." And then I look down at my street and I look up again and I see this plane. And a lot of people will have that. But it takes a different mind to then think, "I want to be on the plane. I want to be at the other end of Liverpool Street."

   26. RYReggie Yates16:47

       Yeah.

   27. SBSteven Bartlett16:48

       Um, but then also I have some idea about how to get there.

   28. RYReggie Yates16:51

       Mm-hmm.

   29. SBSteven Bartlett16:51

       Or maybe you didn't have some, an idea about how to get there. But maybe just the, I mean, I don't know if you believe in, like, manifestation-

   30. RYReggie Yates16:56

       Yeah.
4. 20:35 – 31:13

   What were your dreams for the future?

   1. RYReggie Yates20:35

   2. SBSteven Bartlett20:35

      And when you were there, when you were in school, when you were eight years old and working and acting, what were your dreams for the future and how big were they? Could- could you s- what was that internal monologue saying that the end of Reggie's story-

   3. RYReggie Yates20:48

      (laughs)

   4. SBSteven Bartlett20:48

      ... would look like?

   5. RYReggie Yates20:49

      I don't know what it looks like now.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett20:51

      Yeah.

   7. RYReggie Yates20:51

      And then, I never had any sort of desire to create it or paint it, I just knew that it was fun and I enjoyed it, and I didn't quite understand why I was getting paid to do it.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett21:03

      Really?

   9. RYReggie Yates21:03

      I just didn't get it, 'cause it was like, "You mean I get off school and I get to play make-believe with people that I've seen on telly, and you're gonna pay me for that?" I- I remember my mom opening a bank account for me because I did a job, and this money started coming in, and, you know, suddenly you've got tens of thousands of pounds in your account and you're not even in secondary school yet. And it's like, "Well, hang on, this is... this is crazy," because Mum's desperately trying to save to put this on the table or to make that happen, and I'm getting to do something that's fun, and it's paying me really well, and I get to do it with Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie. Like, "What?"

   10. SBSteven Bartlett21:40

       That there, though, for me, speaks to a really critically important part of, like, success, which is at a very, very young age, you got to see behind the curtain. And the curtain was, in my view, just from hearing what you said-

   11. RYReggie Yates21:52

       Mm-hmm.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett21:53

       ... "I can do something that I actually like-"

   13. RYReggie Yates21:55

       Yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett21:55

       "... and people will pay me for it."

   15. RYReggie Yates21:56

       Yeah.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett21:57

       And imagine, most kids from that estate, all they'll ever get to see is you work in the factory or whatever-

   17. RYReggie Yates22:01

       Yeah.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett22:01

       ... you have to hate your work-

   19. RYReggie Yates22:03

       Yeah.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett22:03

       ... and you get paid fuck-all for it.

   21. RYReggie Yates22:05

       Yeah.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett22:05

       That's what... Did they ever... You know?

   23. RYReggie Yates22:06

       Well, it's interesting you say that, because you've actually weirdly picked up on a really interesting point, because, um, something happened on set in a moment, um, o- of realization even as a child, that only came back into my head, popped back into my head a few years ago, and I recognized how important it was and actually put it in my book. Uh, and that was, um... work to me based on my grandparents and my mother was something that you hated. Um, my grandmother worked the buses, she, um, was a cleaner, she did all sorts of stuff. She was a- a cook for London Underground at one point, or was it London Buses? One of the two. Uh, my grandfather had two jobs. At night he was a security guard at some random factory in King's Cross, and during the day he was a mathematics professor at a university. You know, so an incredibly educated man, but because he wanted to build a home in Ghana and he wanted to look after everyone, he literally worked all the hours that God would send. So whenever anyone spoke about work, they hated it. And then, the first job that I ever got as an actor when I was eight years old was, uh, was Desmond's, which for anyone that, um, has seen it will know, like, retrospectively how important that show was. Uh, for those that don't know what it is, uh, Desmond's, uh, I believe it's Channel 4's longest running sitcom. Uh, it's not on TV anymore and it hasn't been on for years. Um, but Desmond's was about a Black family in Peckham who owned a barber shop, and it was a comedy about Black life and just about life. And because it was so human, even though it was massively flavored by this Caribbean family, people loved it. And it was massive and it ran for, I think, seven seasons, right? So, the first audition I go for is Desmond's, and I remember going to Humphrey Bartlett, I think was the name of the production company-

   24. SBSteven Bartlett23:55

       (laughs)

   25. RYReggie Yates23:55

       ... in Kentish Town, and we went up to their production office and...... my mum was excited. You know, she was prepping me when I had little cards, like, to get my lines down and everything, and I got the job. And then I had this random moment that, when I think back, it's crazy for me as a kid to have made this realization or had this realization, and that was I was, um, I was on set surrounded by people that looked like me and my family. You know, you had Shirley, who was the matriarch of the family, who actually looked like my gran. You had Norman, who played Desmond, who was, like, the super funny old guy, and my grandad was this funny old guy that used to make inappropriate jokes all the time. And all the makeup artists were black, and they would give me little boiled sweets, and everybody was just so fun to be around. And I was just surrounded by this blackness, but in a professional setting. And everyone was at work, and they were having a great time. And something went off in my head and I was like, "Wait, hang on a second. Maybe what I've seen in my family and their relationship with work doesn't apply to everyone, because these people look like my family and they're having a great time. So what would it be like if I did that for me?"

   26. SBSteven Bartlett25:01

       And that's exactly it. And I- a lot of people don't realize that, and that's why I referred to it as you got to look behind the curtain.

   27. RYReggie Yates25:09

       Right.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett25:09

       And once you see it, you can't unsee it. Once you ha- make that connection-

   29. RYReggie Yates25:13

       Yeah.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett25:13

       ... that you, you can love your work and it can be in line with your passions, I mean, right now, the stuff you're doing in your career is, seems to be perfectly in line with your-
5. 31:13 – 37:22

   The key moments of failure in your life

   1. SBSteven Bartlett31:13

      (page flips) That journey you've described over, you know, 30 odd years and the, the cycles and the staying, you know, m- being at a point now where you can still do what you want on a big platform, there must have been a ton of failure through that journey.

   2. RYReggie Yates31:27

      Oh.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett31:27

      And people don't talk about that-

   4. RYReggie Yates31:28

      Yeah.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett31:28

      ... because that doesn't make for good Instagram posts r- typically.

   6. RYReggie Yates31:31

      (laughs)

   7. SBSteven Bartlett31:31

      You know, like-

   8. RYReggie Yates31:31

      Yeah.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett31:31

      ... the, the day you get rejected from the audition or whatever.

   10. RYReggie Yates31:34

       Yeah.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett31:34

       What are the, the, some of the critical moments in your journey where you encountered failure or rejection-

   12. RYReggie Yates31:39

       Mm-hmm.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett31:39

       ... and you had that sort of mental conversation with yourself to figure out what the hell this means-

   14. RYReggie Yates31:44

       Yeah.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett31:44

       ... and what we do next?

   16. RYReggie Yates31:46

       (smacks lips) Um, I, uh, have done a lot of therapy.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett31:50

       Mm-hmm.

   18. RYReggie Yates31:50

       And I'm really thankful for it. I started in my 20s and now in my, uh, my late 30s, um, I understand the importance of, uh, getting to know your shadow. And, uh, my, my current therapist who I've been with for a while now is an incredible human being who has given me new tools for the tool belt. I'm using the language now.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett32:08

       I love this. Mm-hmm.

   20. RYReggie Yates32:09

       I'm using the language. And, um, uh, just some of the things that he's given me have really helped me to understand me at my worst. And one of the big triggers for me is when my character is questioned. And I've always struggled with the idea of people getting me wrong or thinking that my intentions aren't pure. And I had a situation, um, uh, a few years ago now where I said something publicly that offended a lot of people. And my argument was, "No, no, but I didn't mean that. I, I didn't mean that." (slaps leg) And what I came to realize was your intentions mean nothing if you hurt people. And in sitting with the community that I offended deeply, which breaks my heart because my first ever mentor, Anna Sher, who gave me my career in, in television, uh, is from that same community as well. And I learned and have learned so much about that community and that faith. Um, and I felt as though I let so many people down. And in having those conversations and understanding that, bro, it's not actually about you. It's about knowing the power of your platform, (smacks lips) understanding that you have a responsibility when you open your mouth because you've worked so long that people listen to you now, bro. And respecting the fact that regardless of what your intention is, if you hurt people, you have to behave accordingly. And that was a huge moment of failure for me that I have learned so much from and that I am, uh, I'm proud of the lessons that came from it. And those lessons, I think, have set me up in such a way that I'm excited about my future because regardless of everything that I've done, I feel as though I'm only really getting started now.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett33:50

       Mm-hmm.

   22. RYReggie Yates33:50

       And everything that has happened feels like practice, in a way.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett33:54

       So I- I'm gonna ask this, these questions because I, I'm scared that at some point, I'm on Dragon's Den now, I, I have a podcast where I speak my mind, and I'm gonna say some shit at some point. I've said to my team before, I'm like, "I know at some point, I'm gonna say some shit-"

   24. RYReggie Yates34:08

       Yeah.

   25. SBSteven Bartlett34:08

       "... that I- is gonna get me in trouble."

   26. RYReggie Yates34:10

       Mm-hmm.

   27. SBSteven Bartlett34:10

       "Something that I didn't mean or something off the cuff," or whatever. When I say didn't mean, again, to your point, it doesn't necessarily matter, but, um, if, if I meant it or not or what my intentions were. But can you talk to me... And we're kinda talking about, like, cancel culture here. We're talking about-

   28. RYReggie Yates34:23

       Yep.

   29. SBSteven Bartlett34:23

       ... you know, um, someone that has a, a platform, that's speaking their mind, that s- is using words in various ways. Um, so you're talk- you're, you're referencing that the, you, there were some comments made-

   30. RYReggie Yates34:33

       Mm-hmm.
6. 37:22 – 44:51

   Getting to know your shadow

   1. RYReggie Yates37:22

   2. SBSteven Bartlett37:22

      I nee- uh, 'cause so I have been having this conversation with one of my best friends.

   3. RYReggie Yates37:25

      Mm-hmm.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett37:25

      And he's... I'm gonna take it out of context 'cause I think, 'cause you've had, you've been through the therapy, maybe you can offer some advice.

   5. RYReggie Yates37:30

      Sure.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett37:31

      He was saying to me the other day that he is so easily triggered in the moment by certain things. He thinks it's because he used to get bullied when he was younger on the playground.

   7. RYReggie Yates37:39

      Right.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett37:39

      But for example, if someone was to qua- say that he was wrong or present evidence which proved he was wrong, or his romantic partner who he's, um, currently with were to get in a little bit of a tiff with him, it's kind of like this red mist.

   9. RYReggie Yates37:51

      Mm-hmm.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett37:51

       And he can't control it. And then 10 minutes later, he'll go, "I don't know why, I don't know why I do that."

   11. RYReggie Yates37:55

       Yeah, yeah.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett37:56

       How, how did, how did you find out what those triggers were? And you said you've got something in place to deal with it.

   13. RYReggie Yates38:01

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett38:01

       What is, wh- what is that?

   15. RYReggie Yates38:03

       (laughs)

   16. SBSteven Bartlett38:03

       'Cause, 'cause he was like, "In the moment when I'm sat with my girlfriend at dinner-"

   17. RYReggie Yates38:06

       Yeah.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett38:07

       "... and (snaps fingers) the trigger goes, if I walk off, that's storming off. If I go silent, that's sulking. So what the fuck am I supposed to do?" (laughs)

   19. RYReggie Yates38:16

       Yeah. Um, well, this is gonna sound ridiculous, but, uh, listening is really difficult when you feel as though you're being challenged.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett38:26

       Mm-hmm.

   21. RYReggie Yates38:27

       And nine times out of 10, any conflict that I've ever had hasn't actually been about me. So to have the resolve to shut the fuck up and listen sometimes allows you to get through the things that are triggering or annoying or make you angry or frustrating and get to the heart of what something, w- what's actually being said and why. And then when you get to that, it just becomes so much easier, because most of the time it's not actually about you, you know? Maybe something you've said or done is triggering to the person that you really care about who sat across the table from you. And if you're willing to get beyond the fact that they're saying something that in the moment makes you angry, you can actually move forward together in a way that just didn't exist before.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett39:09

       The, the, the thing that's jumping in and that's, it's, it's commanding your brain to try and win or to go for victory or self-defense though-

   23. RYReggie Yates39:17

       Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett39:17

       ... that, you know, that can come from the playground, that can come from a comment your dad made to you when you were four or-

   25. RYReggie Yates39:22

       Yeah.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett39:22

       ... y- whatever. So-

   27. RYReggie Yates39:23

       Especially if you're someone who has come from nothing and has succeeded.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett39:26

       Yeah.

   29. RYReggie Yates39:26

       You know, it's you against the world for a huge chunk of that, you know, earlier stage. It's very easy to need to win everything in life, especially arguments. But most (laughs) of the time winning an argument actually ends up putting you backwards.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett39:39

       Because, uh, what you described there is, um, from what I understood, w- is ego.
7. 44:51 – 48:39

   The force thats driving you

   1. SBSteven Bartlett44:51

      Um, there was something you said, a quote, where you, you talked about really understanding how precious your time was. And the, the actual quote is, "No one like me has had this opportunity, so I'd be a fool not to make the most of it." I really want to understand that, like, driving force within-

   2. RYReggie Yates45:07

      Yeah.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett45:07

      ... within you that's, that's, um, still driving you today. And I, I've sat here with so many, um, successful people, so many successful, uh, Black men. Um, I've analyzed myself, and it tends to be a bit of a cocktail sometimes.

   4. RYReggie Yates45:20

      Yeah.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett45:20

      Your story from the council estate sheds some light on that.

   6. RYReggie Yates45:23

      Yeah.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett45:23

      And, you know, Liverpool Road, that really sheds some light on it as well.

   8. RYReggie Yates45:26

      Mm-hmm.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett45:26

      Um, and it... The bit we talked about, p- uh, being underestimated and, you know, feeling l- sometimes like the outlier in certain rooms.

   10. RYReggie Yates45:33

       Yeah.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett45:34

       Um, but that thing about time and that sense of responsibility you t- you speak to, is it... 'Cause I... You saw that word, and you're right, that s- almost, your feeling of responsibility.

   12. RYReggie Yates45:43

       Yeah. (sighs) It's really complicated. And I think the idea of responsibility comes from understanding that I was one of the first people to, uh, be given a platform either on prime time or on children's TV and so on and so forth. And because I've always been myself, uh, regardless of who I was at that time, and, you know, having been on TV for so many years, that version of me has continued to progress. You know, as a teenager presenting kids TV with cane row and, you know, uh, uh Air Force 1s and a Mecca tracksuit or academic sweatsuit, knowing that I'm not just wearing this to my dressing room, I'm wearing this on camera, says something.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett46:27

       Hmm.

   14. RYReggie Yates46:27

       It says something. I'm on the BBC and I'm dressed like the boys that you cross the street from. That was... Like, I understood even at 18 that that was a thing, that meant something. And subsequently, you know, I've had kids come up to me over the years saying, "I grew up with you on TV. And bro, I loved watching you because we dressed the same, we talked the same, and you were doing that. And it just made me feel like I existed." And when people say things like that to strangers, it's so powerful. And I assumed that that might be the case, even as a teenager.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett47:00

       Hmm.

   16. RYReggie Yates47:00

       And I'm so glad that I was right, because that desire to be me whatever room I'm in has served me well. And that's gone from presenting kids TV right the way through to writing and directing now. Like, I've just completed my first feature film, Pirates, uh, which will be out this year, and I'm a producer, I'm a writer, and I'm a director in this movie about three men of color.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett47:25

       Hmm.

   18. RYReggie Yates47:26

       Men, 18-year-olds, right? And I employed the crew. I, um, sat there in interview rooms interviewing heads of department, deci- deciding who is gonna ultimately set the mood for this thing that really matters to me. Because as a writer-director, it starts with the script, but as a director, you're on set and you've got 150, 200 people working for you. And if you don't lead in the right way, they'll decide what this environment is gonna be. And the big concern for me was, I'm looking at three versions of me. I've got a Moroccan kid, a Ghanaian kid, and a West Indian kid who are 18 who are leading their first movie. I remember being 18, desperately trying to get auditions for movies and not getting them, 'cause it was a very different landscape then. So I understand the responsibility that I have today to put on for those guys, for Reda, for Elliot, for Jordan. It's my responsibility to put on for them and create an environment for them in a way that just wouldn't exist if the man at the top of the tree didn't intrinsically understand them.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett48:28

       Hmm.

   20. RYReggie Yates48:29

       Because nobody (laughs) understood me coming up. That's where the responsibility comes, you know?

   21. SBSteven Bartlett48:34

       So this is a tough question to answer, because I would find it h- tou- tough to answer. But I'm gon- I'll answer it as well if

8. 48:39 – 53:37

   The best and worst parts of your leadership style

   1. SBSteven Bartlett48:39

      you want me to. But what, what, what i- what is the best... In, in your own self-assessment-

   2. RYReggie Yates48:43

      Hmm.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett48:44

      ... what is the best-... and worst part of your leadership style?

   4. RYReggie Yates48:48

      Um, I think the ... It's easy to say the best, isn't it?

   5. SBSteven Bartlett48:52

      (laughs)

   6. RYReggie Yates48:53

      It always is. The bit I'm great at. (laughs)

   7. SBSteven Bartlett48:56

      (laughs)

   8. RYReggie Yates48:56

      Um, okay, let's start with worst. I think the worst part of my leadership style is that I want everybody to have a good time all the time.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett49:04

      Ooh, okay. Interesting.

   10. RYReggie Yates49:05

       I do.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett49:06

       Please explain that.

   12. RYReggie Yates49:06

       Desperately. Well, when you're responsible for the environment-

   13. SBSteven Bartlett49:11

       Mm-hmm.

   14. RYReggie Yates49:11

       ... when you pick the people, if it goes left or if you pick the wrong person, it's on you and it's your fault. And that feels shit. When you get it wrong and it affects people that you care about, that feels terrible. So, I desperately want everything to work out in an environment where I'm responsible, you know? So I think that that's probably one of the biggest failures that I hopefully will be better at in the next project. You know, to be really transparent, sometimes you have to replace people-

   15. SBSteven Bartlett49:38

       Mm-hmm.

   16. RYReggie Yates49:38

       ... midway through a shoot, and it's knowing when is the right time and also having the balls to say, "You don't quite get what we're trying to do, so thank you for what you've done but you're n- your services are no longer required," you know?

   17. SBSteven Bartlett49:50

       Yeah.

   18. RYReggie Yates49:50

       That's difficult.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett49:51

       Yeah.

   20. RYReggie Yates49:51

       Especially if you empowered them to begin with.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett49:53

       Yeah.

   22. RYReggie Yates49:54

       And to take it away is tough. Um, I think the thing that I'm good at is people management.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett50:00

       Okay.

   24. RYReggie Yates50:00

       I'm good with people. I'm good on a one-to-one basis as well as with a group.

   25. SBSteven Bartlett50:05

       Mm-hmm.

   26. RYReggie Yates50:05

       Um, and I think the thing that I'm best at is understanding my actors because I once was one. And knowing that, you know, they just wanna do a good job and are individuals. Some might require talking to before a take, some might require being left alone, some might require some coaching or some confidence boosting.

   27. SBSteven Bartlett50:24

       Hmm.

   28. RYReggie Yates50:24

       Some might require being told to rein it in, you know? I ... Uh, with Pirates, uh, I decided that I wanted to make sure that my three central guys were a little family before we even got on set. So, I contacted one of my mentors, um, uh, Richard Curtis, the writer-director who, uh, wrote, uh, Notting Hill, uh, Love Actually, Four Weddings and a Funeral. Um, he and his wife Emma, uh, Freud, who are amazing, amazing couple, uh, I met through Comic Relief, which is also something that they do. I mean, they're kind of amazing. Uh, when I was 18, I met them through Comic Relief and they've been in my life ever since. And when I started writing, off the back of spending New Year's at one of his places, I said, "Look, could I, would it be possible to take one of your homes by the sea so I can go and write there?" And they're like, "Absolutely." And they've given me, they've opened their doors to me for me to go and write at their-

   29. SBSteven Bartlett51:14

       Wow.

   30. RYReggie Yates51:14

       ... one of their, their homes. And the desk that I, I wrote a few drafts of Pirates is the desk that Richard wrote Notting Hill on.
9. 53:37 – 1:00:11

   The most key moment from all your films

   1. RYReggie Yates53:37

   2. SBSteven Bartlett53:37

      You've created so many critically acclaimed amazing documentaries, right? And they're so diverse in their subject matter.

   3. RYReggie Yates53:43

      Thank you, by the way.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett53:44

      Yeah. No, just-

   5. RYReggie Yates53:45

      (laughs) That's very kind of you.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett53:45

      I was going through here, I was like, "Fuck," and then I was like... you know?

   7. RYReggie Yates53:47

      (laughs)

   8. SBSteven Bartlett53:47

      And it's really just like, it's so diverse.

   9. RYReggie Yates53:49

      Yeah.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett53:49

       But I, I wanted, I wanted to know, of all ... And this might be like picking your favorite kid or something. But of all the m- documentaries and all the moments in those, those, those stories that you've told, is there something where you think, "This is why I started"?

   11. RYReggie Yates54:02

       Man, that's so tough because there's something in every film.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett54:04

       Yeah.

   13. RYReggie Yates54:05

       Genuinely.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett54:05

       Yeah, I know.

   15. RYReggie Yates54:05

       And it might even be the lesson that, you know, you made a crap mo- a crap documentary and you knew it going in but you did it anyway.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett54:12

       Mm-hmm.

   17. RYReggie Yates54:12

       There's been so many amazing lessons. So, I think the thing that comes to mind most whenever I'm asked this question is, um, the South African preacher. I made a documentary called The Millionaire Preacher, um, and there was this guy called, uh, Mboro who is still active as a preacher. I mean, he recently ... I think he got arrested for selling pictures, uh, to his followers, uh, that he took when he went up to heaven.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett54:38

       Wow.

   19. RYReggie Yates54:39

       Uh, so he recently, uh, I think has been arrested for that. I'm not entirely sure what's going on with him now. But anyway, at the time when we went to make the documentary with him, he had a congregation of about 10,000 people and he was a multimillionaire, several Rolls-Royces. You name the car, he had it. Mansions, the lot.And his entire congregation was made of poor black people. And, um, he fell out with me because he didn't think I respected him enough, because I came to the film as somebody who isn't particularly religious, but has a religious background. I grew up in a Pentecostal Christian church. My stepfather was Muslim. I converted to Islam when I was a kid, and in my teens I decided that faith really wasn't for me in that context. So I'm looking at this man thinking, "You are literally exchanging people's faith for their pay packet." And I was disgusted by him and by everything that he represented before I'd even spoken to him, before I'd even begun to unearth who he was and what got him to that place. And it was an incredible learning experience when he decided that he didn't want to film with me anymore, and, you know, his armed guards were sort of like, (snaps fingers) you know, had their fingers on the trigger as I was trying to force the point that he should keep talking to me, and he was just not interested. I- I came to realize that it's not about me. Uh, the reason I was there was not to have a personal experience. The reason I was there was to make a film that could potentially shed light on an issue or teach something to people across the UK that I would never meet, and ultimately the world as the film went on, on Netflix. And I had a similar, uh, situation when I made a film about, um, being young, black, and gay. Uh, I have a, a family member who I'm incredibly close to who is a gay man, and, um, his coming out was this incredible moment for me in terms of realizing how difficult his life had been up until that point because of what he worried about, because of what he thought might happen. Um, and I wanted to make a film about that. And cut a long story short, ultimately the film for me didn't feel as though it nailed it, and I was really, really disappointed. And, uh, the production company that I worked with at the time would always do screenings of the film as they, the films as they went out, so we went to the exec's house, and we're in his house, and we're in the kitchen watching it, and the credits roll. And as the credits are rolling, everyone's sort of high-fiving each other, going, "Oh, we killed it. We're trending on Twitter. This is brilliant. Everybody loves the film." And I'm just like, "That isn't the film that I had in my head. That doesn't speak to the, the, the specificity of the experience in the way that I wanted it to." Anyway, point being, I went into my DM on all the social platforms that I was on at the time, and every single mailbox was filled with messages from young men and women saying, "We saw that you were making this film, so we purposely watched it with our parents, and I've just come out to my mum because of the film you made. I was able to have a conversation with my dad because of some of the things that were happening on screen. Thank you for giving us that opportunity. Thank you for opening the door." And I felt like an absolute idiot in that moment, because I was so busy worrying about being Mr. Program Maker and making this film that was perfect in my mind's eye, whereas in reality, the conversation that was being had had never been had before, let alone on the BBC. And as a result, it actively changed lives of people watching. It literally changed the lives of people that messaged me. Wasn't about me, and I felt really embarrassed with myself.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett58:16

       It's really interesting, that balance of it being not about you, but it comes-

   21. RYReggie Yates58:22

       Ultimately being-

   22. SBSteven Bartlett58:23

       Yeah, do you know what I mean?

   23. RYReggie Yates58:24

       ... about your experience.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett58:24

       It's that, it's that-

   25. RYReggie Yates58:25

       Yeah.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett58:25

       It was, it came, it was birthed out of your own personal experience and your desire to tell a very important story which had clearly moved you emotionally-

   27. RYReggie Yates58:31

       Yeah.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett58:31

       ... enough to commit your life, a portion of your life to telling that story.

   29. RYReggie Yates58:35

       Yeah.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett58:36

       So, uh, but, but also I completely understand what you're saying, which is like the outcome is not about you, I guess.
10. 1:00:11 – 1:03:28

    Your relationship with money

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:11

       (page turns) And let's talk about money then. So you mentioned money there. What role does, does money play in all of this stuff, in success, in your view, in, in life?

    2. RYReggie Yates1:00:19

       Well, I've never chased it, which is probably why my accountant hates my guts.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:22

       Mm-hmm.

    4. RYReggie Yates1:00:23

       You know, I- I walked away from primetime TV that, you know, is a very rare air, in- in terms of the amount of people that get to host those shows that get millions and millions of viewers, and also the payment that comes with it, you know? I didn't enjoy hosting those shows. I didn't enjoy being in that space. I didn't enjoy being told what to do and say. I essentially was being asked to not be me, and that didn't work for me. (laughs)

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:48

       Mm-hmm.

    6. RYReggie Yates1:00:48

       Um, and in walking away from that and focusing on documentaries, I walked away from a lot of money.And knowing that I was gonna take a hit financially, ultimately being able to get to the place that I am now as a filmmaker, um, was something I was very aware of. So money has never been a driver for me. But it's been something that I've been conscious of because you got to live right.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:09

       Mm-hmm.

    8. RYReggie Yates1:01:10

       And also I look after a lot of people and I help a lot of people and I support people. Um, so I've always wanted to do that. So money has always been important in that sense, but it's never been important because I'm gonna show you.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:22

       That, that jump you described there where you swing from being like a TV host to saying-

    10. RYReggie Yates1:01:26

        Mm-hmm.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:26

        ... "Do you know what? I want to make my own documentaries," feels like a risk.

    12. RYReggie Yates1:01:30

        It is.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:30

        Yeah.

    14. RYReggie Yates1:01:31

        Massively. (laughs)

    15. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:31

        Talk to me, talk to me about that, the feeling you had when you thought, "Do you know what? I want to go and pursue myself now-"

    16. RYReggie Yates1:01:36

        Yeah.

    17. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:36

        ... "and my sort of intrinsic..." I go- I always get roasted for using the word intrinsic and extrinsic on this basically.

    18. RYReggie Yates1:01:41

        (laughs)

    19. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:41

        Intrinsic fulfilling passion.

    20. RYReggie Yates1:01:43

        Yeah.

    21. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:43

        Um, despite that I'm gonna have to take a financial cut potentially.

    22. RYReggie Yates1:01:46

        Yeah.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:47

        I might not... You know, and the risk, there's no guarantee here, right?

    24. RYReggie Yates1:01:49

        Yeah.

    25. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:49

        This might not work out, might not get commissioned.

    26. RYReggie Yates1:01:51

        Well, it's the same thing with radio. You know, I hosted radio (laughs) for 10 years. I was at Radio One for a decade and I walked away. I left hosting the chart show not because I was fired, but because I decided it wasn't right for me anymore because I stopped learning. And for me, it's always been about, what are you learning? How much are you enjoying this? And does this align with where you are as a human being? (laughs) Does this align with your passions? Does this align with what you care about? And, you know, uh, you, you, you touched on it yourself earlier in the conversation. When I recognized that I didn't want to talk to Harry Styles for 30 seconds about the new video, I wanted to ask, "How the hell are you managing all of this? You're nine years old."

    27. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:30

        (laughs) Yeah.

    28. RYReggie Yates1:02:31

        Like, "Mate, how are you managing this? There are grown women that are hunting you down-"

    29. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:35

        Yeah.

    30. RYReggie Yates1:02:36

        "... sexually."
11. 1:03:28 – 1:08:07

    Whats the importance of being your true self?

    1. RYReggie Yates1:03:28

       own terms.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:29

       And h- and in terms of... Yeah. And so in terms of, like, fulfillment, happiness, mental wellbeing-

    3. RYReggie Yates1:03:34

       Yeah.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:34

       ... how important is it to be your true self? You know, and, uh, uh, you know, again, we b- talked about the LGBTQ community and how the struggles they face m- the suicide rates are higher-

    5. RYReggie Yates1:03:43

       Mm.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:44

       ... because they, they are forced in many k- instances to live a life that isn't true to who they actually are. From your own exper- I mean, from mine, I know that, I mean, when you're... I mean, you're doing it now. You're making ex- extraordinary work because it's connected to who Reggie is.

    7. RYReggie Yates1:03:58

       Yep.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:59

       Um, you, you... I'm guessing you're, you're more happ- you're happy, right? You're fulfilled.

    9. RYReggie Yates1:04:03

       Yeah.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:03

        And, um, and this all seems to be a really positively reinforcing cycle when you get closer to that-

    11. RYReggie Yates1:04:09

        Yes.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:09

        ... sense of who you are.

    13. RYReggie Yates1:04:10

        It's, it... You know, it is, it's, it's looking at your diary, and I'm sure you have a similar thing.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:14

        Yeah.

    15. RYReggie Yates1:04:14

        You know, you look at your calendar for the day and you go, "What am I actually doing today?"

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:16

        Mm-hmm.

    17. RYReggie Yates1:04:17

        And we've all had those days where you see something in the calendar that you don't want to do.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:21

        Mm.

    19. RYReggie Yates1:04:21

        Seldom do I have those days now.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:23

        No.

    21. RYReggie Yates1:04:23

        It's very rare that I have something that I don't want to do.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:26

        Oh.

    23. RYReggie Yates1:04:26

        Um, p- professionally particularly. (laughs)

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:30

        Yeah. (laughs) Okay.

    25. RYReggie Yates1:04:30

        Um, and I'm really excited by that.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:33

        Yeah.

    27. RYReggie Yates1:04:33

        And I'm proud of that. You know, um, everything that I, I, I, I'm invested in professionally, uh, comes from a place of passion. So for instance, I made, uh, you know, talking about social media and all the rest of it, I made a, a drama for the BBC called, uh, Make Me Famous, which was a, a standalone one-hour drama about the relationship between, uh, fame, social media, and suicide. And, you know, I created a character who was a reality TV star, who, after being on a hit show, suddenly his star begins to fade, and there is a newer, younger, sexier version of him who's getting all the accolades and love, and suddenly his rate's going through the floor, and what that does to him on a, on a mental health level. And the conversations and research that I was, like, embedded within in the build-up to writing the screenplay were incredibly eye-opening for me because I was talking to stars from reality TV past and present and hearing the difference between people who'd been on reality TV 15 years ago and today. It was heartbreaking, you know? A- and seeing the way that these kids understand fame and, and what they're searching for, you know? And also recognizing that I'm someone who's hosted reality TV.

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:43

        Yeah.

    29. RYReggie Yates1:05:43

        You know? And I have a really strange and unique relationship with it. So my point is, regardless of what it is I'm doing, I care about it. I care about it, and that's anything from content to product. I have, uh, a dairy-free ice cream, you know?

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:58

        (laughs)
12. 1:08:07 – 1:21:37

    Romantic Relationships

    1. RYReggie Yates1:08:07

       .

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:07

       (laughs) Okay, so you're single.

    3. RYReggie Yates1:08:10

       Yeah. (laughs)

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:10

       Talk to me about that. How- h- are you-

    5. RYReggie Yates1:08:12

       This is me waving a flag-

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:13

       Yeah. Yeah. (laughs)

    7. RYReggie Yates1:08:13

       ... to try and find a partner, is that what this is?

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:14

       Oh, yeah, this is like Tinder Cast. Um-

    9. RYReggie Yates1:08:16

       Amazing.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:17

        So- w- so tell me, is Reggie Yates hard to date?

    11. RYReggie Yates1:08:20

        Uh, absolutely.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:21

        Why?

    13. RYReggie Yates1:08:22

        Uh, for the same reason that you are.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:24

        None of your business. (laughs)

    15. RYReggie Yates1:08:26

        (laughs)

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:26

        Is Reggie-

    17. RYReggie Yates1:08:26

        No, it's- it's- it's the truth. It's the truth. I- and I- I- I have a feeling everything I'm about to say you will identify with. And that is that, um... Disclaimer, everything I'm about to say will probably make me sound like a massive prat, so please don't judge. Um, you're not like a lot of people. Uh, you're not like most of your friends because of the life that you've chosen for yourself and, more importantly, the person that you've had to be to become the person that you are, which as a result means that your dating pool is small because if we're talking about someone beyond, uh, being attractive and needing to have the value system or the outlook or, and m- and this is the really difficult thing, the understanding that you require, it suddenly becomes incredibly hard. And, uh, one of the stumbling blocks I found is hoping that someone will become the person that I really feel that I need in terms of their understanding of me, um, or expecting them to.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:09:27

        Mm-hmm.

    19. RYReggie Yates1:09:28

        And in doing the work (laughs) and realizing the role that I play in that, I've been, at different times, very responsible in that, th- those moments of conflict, should we say. Whereas today, I'm just very clear about, uh, who I am and also what I need. And I think if you're very open and honest about that in the beginning, it makes it easier, but it doesn't make it easy. And the pool continues to shrink the more my world changes because, uh, a- a- a guy that was like a- a mentor for me always described me as a moving target. He's like, "Reg, we're moving targets, bruv. Like, it's never gonna be easy." Because you continue to learn, you continue to work on yourself, and you continue to have that hunger to be better for yourself-

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:15

        Yeah.

    21. RYReggie Yates1:10:15

        ... and for others. And it's incredibly difficult to find someone that is either on the same path or has the empathy and understanding for you in the path that you're on and the knock-on effects that that will have romantically.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:28

        So, you said two things there that I really wanted to jump back to-

    23. RYReggie Yates1:10:31

        Yeah.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:31

        ... before we proceed, um, with this topic. You said y- you've come to learn who you are and what you need.

    25. RYReggie Yates1:10:37

        Yeah.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:38

        Who are you and what do you need?

    27. RYReggie Yates1:10:40

        Um, I'm a fiercely creative person with, uh, a very young spirit who needs friendship and understanding and empathy. Um, as a writer, you know, when you're building characters, uh, one of my favorite things to do for my characters is- is write down what is the lie your character believes. And I think for the longest time, I believed that I would find a female me, and I couldn't imagine anything worse today. (laughs)

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:09

        Yeah.

    29. RYReggie Yates1:11:09

        Um, and also, you know, you have to understand the difference between your character's wants and needs, which is why I find writing so cathartic because I'm essentially doing therapy on me-

Episode duration: 1:44:13