Reid Hoffman: The contrarian bet that built LinkedIn

1. 0:00 – 2:02

   Intro

   1. RHReid Hoffman0:00

      President Trump was threatening-

   2. NANarrator0:02

      (instrumental music)

   3. RHReid Hoffman0:02

      ... personal and political retaliation 'cause I tried to help Harris get elected.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett0:05

      So do you think you'll be penalized?

   5. RHReid Hoffman0:07

      Yes.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett0:07

      And direct on you?

   7. RHReid Hoffman0:08

      And direct to me.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett0:09

      You're not planning on leaving the US are you?

   9. RHReid Hoffman0:10

      (inhales deeply) Um-

   10. NANarrator0:13

       Reid Hoffman is the co-founder of LinkedIn and one of the world's most successful entrepreneurs.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett0:17

       Playing pivotal roles in the success of influential companies, including PayPal, Airbnb, Facebook, and OpenAI.

   12. NANarrator0:23

       And now, he is a leading voice in AI, helping people utilize this new technology to empower themselves and their life and careers.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett0:31

       You were part of what they call the PayPal mafia, who went on to create Tesla, YouTube, Reddit, SpaceX, LinkedIn, and become multi-billionaires. And so, I've got so many questions.

   14. RHReid Hoffman0:40

       Let's do it.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett0:41

       What are the key factors of a great entrepreneur's mindset?

   16. RHReid Hoffman0:43

       One is, you have to understand that you don't get to an optimistic future by trying to avoid failure.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett0:47

       Okay.

   18. RHReid Hoffman0:47

       When we started LinkedIn, everyone said, "This won't work." But just because you don't have 100% chance of succeeding doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it. But there's also a set of skills that are rare, that you can actually teach to entrepreneurs, and that makes you much more likely to be successful. The first is-

   19. SBSteven Bartlett1:03

       And then how do you know when to quit the job? What's your view on work/life balance? And if you were advising anyone to build wealth in 2025, what would you say?

   20. RHReid Hoffman1:11

       Here are some simple tips. So one is ...

   21. SBSteven Bartlett1:13

       Reid, what is your take on AI?

   22. RHReid Hoffman1:15

       It gives us super powers. Now, there will be costs to it, but like electricity, it does electrocute people, but it's essential for human society.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett1:22

       And is there anything that the average person should be doing to capitalize on the opportunity that AI presents?

   24. RHReid Hoffman1:26

       100%. This is what you do. So-

   25. SBSteven Bartlett1:32

       This has always blown my mind a little bit, 53% of you that listen to this show regularly haven't yet subscribed to the show. So could I ask you for a favor before we start? If you like this show and you like what we do here and you wanna support us, the free simple way that you can do just that is by hitting the subscribe button. And my commitment to you is, if you do that, then I'll do everything in my power, me and my team, to make sure that this show is better for you every single week. We'll listen to your feedback, we'll find the guests that you want me to speak to, and we'll continue to do what we do. Thank you so much. (instrumental music)

2. 2:02 – 7:20

   How Have You Managed to Be So Successful?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett2:03

      Reid, as I read through your life, it's remarkable in ... It's almost impossible that one individual could be involved in so many companies that have had such a big impact on society, but at the same time someone be able to seemingly see the future over and over and over and over again. So because, as I read through your life, I thought, "This can't be one individual. This can't be one lifetime," it, it begs the question to me, what is, in your view, the causal factors that-

   2. RHReid Hoffman2:33

      Mm.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett2:33

      ... set you up for such a life?

   4. RHReid Hoffman2:36

      Well, that's interesting. I've never been asked that question before. Um, probably it's a combination of the fact that my passion is, who are we as human beings and where we're going?

   5. SBSteven Bartlett2:52

      Mm-hmm.

   6. RHReid Hoffman2:52

      So like that's from, from a very young age, like I've been like ... And I think I got it by reading science fiction, right?

   7. SBSteven Bartlett2:59

      Mm-hmm.

   8. RHReid Hoffman2:59

      That's kind of like, "What is the scope of humanity?" Like, you know, Isaac Asimov's Foundation and, you know, this kind of stuff.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett3:05

      Mm-hmm.

   10. RHReid Hoffman3:06

       And then, um, I ended up growing up, I was born in the Stanford Hospital, I ended up growing up in Silicon Valley. And, and so I got the exposure to technology can change the world.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett3:20

       Mm-hmm.

   12. RHReid Hoffman3:21

       And so focusing on thinking about, you know, kind of this intersection of humanity and technology, and of course obviously science fiction has some play to that too. Although most of the technology in science fiction is just fiction. (laughs)

   13. SBSteven Bartlett3:33

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   14. RHReid Hoffman3:34

       Right? Just like, "We have wormholes and we do intergalactic travel," and it's like, as far as we know, there is no such thing as wormholes (laughs) -

   15. SBSteven Bartlett3:41

       Yeah.

   16. RHReid Hoffman3:41

       ... for intergalactic travel.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett3:42

       (laughs)

   18. RHReid Hoffman3:43

       Right? I mean, all current contemporary theory of physics-

   19. SBSteven Bartlett3:46

       Yeah.

   20. RHReid Hoffman3:46

       ... would suggest that there isn't.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett3:48

       Mm-hmm.

   22. RHReid Hoffman3:49

       I mean, there may be wormholes, but they're not for, you know, put your Star Trek spaceship in it and go somewhere.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett3:53

       Mm-hmm.

   24. RHReid Hoffman3:54

       And then probably the other part of it is, um, I played a lot of board games when I was a kid, and so it gave me a very deep sense of strategy.

   25. SBSteven Bartlett4:03

       Wow.

   26. RHReid Hoffman4:03

       And so approaching life ... Yeah, exact ... Wow. (laughs)

   27. SBSteven Bartlett4:06

       This one here, you probably remember this one, right?

   28. RHReid Hoffman4:08

       Yes, I do remember that, right? And the name's on the cover.

   29. SBSteven Bartlett4:12

       Borderlands. What age were you when you started playing RuneQuest? You were very young.

   30. RHReid Hoffman4:16

       Uh, when I started playing RuneQuest, probably 10.
3. 7:20 – 8:32

   What Did You Want to Be When You Were Growing Up?

   1. RHReid Hoffman7:20

      (laughs)

   2. SBSteven Bartlett7:21

      (laughs) And what was your, what were your dreams at that age? What did you think you were gonna be when you were older, sort of 12, 13, 14 years old?

   3. RHReid Hoffman7:28

      Frankly, I had no idea other than the following entertaining thing, which is since both my mother and father are lawyers, when I was asked when I was 12 what I wanted to be when I grew up, the answer was, "Not a lawyer." (laughs)

   4. SBSteven Bartlett7:38

      Really?

   5. RHReid Hoffman7:39

      Yes. Well, 'cause lawyers, um... Look, obviously, a bunch of, or a barrister, on this side of the pond. Um, l- lawyers are essentially modern gladiators who are paid to be the gladiator of whatever their paycheck is, whether it's a client or whether it's, you know, being a full-time employee and so forth. And it's quality work, it's important for society, but, like, I was like, "No, no, I wanna create things." I don't wanna be a, you know, you know, belt on my sword and, you know, go to verbal battle for-

   6. SBSteven Bartlett8:10

      Mm-hmm.

   7. RHReid Hoffman8:10

      ... you know, whatever the, you know, contract, or, or litigation or any of those things." And I was like, "No, no, no, I, I actually wanna go build things." And so I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up other than... And maybe I still don't know? Right? (laughs)

   8. SBSteven Bartlett8:25

      (laughs)

   9. RHReid Hoffman8:25

      Um, but what I evolved to is, I normally have about a two to three-year plan that's iterating.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett8:31

       Mm-hmm.

   11. RHReid Hoffman8:31

       Right? And that's, that's

4. 8:32 – 15:13

   Why Was Being Born in Stanford Hospital So Relevant to Your Story?

   1. RHReid Hoffman8:32

      tends to be what I do.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett8:34

      And being born at Stanford Hospital's pertinent as well.

   3. RHReid Hoffman8:36

      Yeah.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett8:36

      I don't think people in the UK and around the world necessarily know the significance of that.

   5. RHReid Hoffman8:39

      Yeah.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett8:40

      But can you explain why that's important?

   7. RHReid Hoffman8:42

      Silicon Valley, um, is a, it's a network of a generative platforms. So, like, one of the things that it, that I have learned to think about is networks amplify productivity. That's not just as we get to, you know, why it is I fo- I conceptualized and founded LinkedIn. But, but it's, think in terms of networks. It's one of the reasons why cities are such, uh, engines. Like, basically, if you really look at economies, it's city regions. And, um, it's 'cause a city region creates a network, right? It's a network of, could be suppliers and all the rest, but also talent and capital and, and, and, and knowledge and communication and, and strategic lenses onto the world. And so Silicon Valley has been an en- Like, like, people go, "Oh, I'm a genius." It's like, "No, no, I'm in Silicon Valley," right?

   8. SBSteven Bartlett9:31

      Mm-hmm.

   9. RHReid Hoffman9:31

      And that really helps. And so being born in Stanford gave me this, a set of different, you know, kinda perspectives. One, technology is a lens into the, uh, future. Another one is, as an individual, you can go create a technology or a technology company that can be a lever that can move the world, (laughs) right?

   10. SBSteven Bartlett9:52

       Mm-hmm.

   11. RHReid Hoffman9:53

       And that an individual, you know, from anywhere can kind of do that. Um, and all of those things were part of the luck of being born at Stanford.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett10:05

       The luck?

   13. RHReid Hoffman10:05

       Yes. Well, I don't choose where, you don't choose where you're born.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett10:08

       But a lot of people were born there and they didn't go on to do the things-

   15. RHReid Hoffman10:11

       (laughs)

   16. SBSteven Bartlett10:12

       ... that you did.

   17. RHReid Hoffman10:12

       People like to tell stories of manifest destinies, 'cause I am great, it would, I would've been great anywhere that I was. Right? And it's self-delusional. I mean, yes, I think I'm smart. Yes, I think I'm hardworking. Yes, I think I'm strategic. Yes, I think I have skills that are rare in, in, in the human condition. But any great achievement also has luck, right?

   18. SBSteven Bartlett10:36

       Mm-hmm.

   19. RHReid Hoffman10:36

       And, and I can point at, in any companies, I can point it at any individuals. Um, and for example, one of the basic luck is, like, I had exposure and connection to Silicon Valley. If I didn't have that, the technology destiny or the technology achievements I've done, wouldn't have been able to do those. Or wouldn't have been able to do those the amazing way that I did them.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett10:59

       So what would you say then, 'cause there's people that listen to this show all around the world, um, I, we just, Spotify Wrapped just came out and globally-

   21. RHReid Hoffman11:06

       Mm-hmm.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett11:06

       ... we have quite an extensive audience.

   23. RHReid Hoffman11:07

       Yeah.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett11:08

       It's funny, it's funny that it's so globally distributed, but I think it, a factor of being on YouTube and speaking English. What would you say to people that are born in, we've got an audience in Cape Town, in Indonesia-

   25. RHReid Hoffman11:17

       Mm-hmm.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett11:17

       ... in Australia, New Zealand. What would you say to people in those parts of the world? Can you still be, quote unquote, "massively successful?"

   27. RHReid Hoffman11:25

       Yes. But, but you have to think... So, um... And I see you have a few of my books there.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett11:31

       Yeah. (laughs)

   29. RHReid Hoffman11:31

       Um, my very first book, The Startup of You, um, which, um, came from the commencement speech I gave at my high school, the Putney School in Vermont. 'Cause I was like, "What do I say to a bunch of 17-year-olds?"

   30. SBSteven Bartlett11:44

       Mm-hmm.
5. 15:13 – 17:24

   Self-Awareness as an Entrepreneur

   1. SBSteven Bartlett15:13

      element of self-awareness required here.

   2. RHReid Hoffman15:16

      Yeah.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett15:16

      And i- it's funny 'cause when I was younger, I certainly didn't have that self-awareness. I thought that I could start a social network from my bedroom without ever doing it before. And I wasn't necessarily thinking about the geographical situation or Silicon Valley. Um, how important is self-awareness as an entrepreneur and how does one cultivate it to know what they c- what challenges actually befitting of their skills?

   4. RHReid Hoffman15:36

      So I think, um, self-awareness is generally a very good thing for all human beings. Um, and, um, you still have to be irrationally ambitious, which is, I think, very important. And so sometimes self-awareness and, and just, you know, uh, immense ambition sometimes don't go together. It's better when they do, but that's fine. What you do have to do is be very aware of what your competitive space looks like, right? So, just about everybody who succeeds in substantive, in a substantial way is good at being competitive, right? And, and you... If you're blind to your competition, uh, you're kinda hosed. If you're successful, it's just 'cause you're lucky.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett16:21

      Mm-hmm.

   6. RHReid Hoffman16:22

      (laughs) Right?

   7. SBSteven Bartlett16:23

      Mm-hmm.

   8. RHReid Hoffman16:23

      'Cause, uh, and that's part of what I was referring to earlier in luck. If you, if you start a business where you have the luck where competitors haven't, haven't identified it, haven't... And you get a long headstart on it, that's an instance of luck. Not all the successful companies are that way, but that's very... That, that can be very good and very useful on that.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett16:41

      Mm-hmm.

   10. RHReid Hoffman16:42

       Um, but you have to be very aware of what the competitive landscape looks like. Now, that's also true of individuals, right?

   11. SBSteven Bartlett16:48

       Mm-hmm.

   12. RHReid Hoffman16:48

       Um, because it's like, "Well, who am I competing against?" is a relevant question, but it's... Uh, you can be kind of competitively blind as an individual-

   13. SBSteven Bartlett16:59

       Mm-hmm.

   14. RHReid Hoffman16:59

       ... and still be very successful because of the way it works. But if you're competitively blind leading a business, leading a startup, almost always that's hosed.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett17:08

       Mm-hmm.

   16. RHReid Hoffman17:08

       Right? That's one of the reasons why, like, you know, the... All investors in Silicon Valley always ask about your competition and if you say, "I don't have any competition," be like, well, if they disagree with you, they're not gonna invest 'cause they know you're competitively blind.

6. 17:24 – 25:30

   Should Everyone Try to Be an Entrepreneur?

   1. RHReid Hoffman17:24

   2. SBSteven Bartlett17:24

      Is there any such thing as an entrepreneur in the sense of, you know, people always ask me, they say, "Can anyone be an entrepreneur and a founder?" And there's so many different types of companies one can start these days-

   3. RHReid Hoffman17:35

      Mm-hmm.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett17:35

      ... that it's a quite tricky question to answer. But do you think anyon- Because there's gonna be people listening to this now that are in... They're managers in companies, they're-

   5. RHReid Hoffman17:42

      Yeah.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett17:42

      ... you know, they're, they're working in a law firm or whatever and maybe they've got an idea. I mean, everyone's-

   7. RHReid Hoffman17:47

      Yeah.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett17:47

      ... got an idea and they don't know if they're the type of person that should pursue it or not. Is there a framework one can run throu- run through to decide that?

   9. RHReid Hoffman17:55

      Yeah, yeah, I'll run through a framework-

   10. SBSteven Bartlett17:57

       Okay.

   11. RHReid Hoffman17:57

       ... to help folks. The, um...The short answer is no, not everyone should be an entrepreneur. Just like not everyone should try to be a professional musi- musician. Mm-hmm. Not everyone should try to be an athlete, not everyone should be... You have to look at what your competitive advantages are and does your disposition, skillsets, path give you a competitive edge, in this case of being an entrepreneur? (laughs) Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. Because any game that's competitive, (laughs) right? And entrepreneurship's a highly competitive game. That's, that's part of the... You know, it's as competitive as trying to become, you know, a, uh, a globally renowned actor. It's as competitive as trying to become the CEO of a major bank or anything else. So it's, it's a competitive game. Mm-hmm. So for an entrepreneur, what you have to do is you have to say, "Okay, well, um, I have to be, uh, able..." One of the classic ones is to, uh, to take substantial risks. Now it's not being risk-blind. Entrepreneurs are actually not risk-blind. Or occasionally they are, and occasionally they're lucky and it works, but almost all the successful ones realize that I'm... that when you start a company, you're default dead. Right? By default, the company is out of business. (laughs) Right? (laughs) And so you're trying to get to a point where it's default alive versus default dead. Mm-hmm. Then there's a whole bunch of the- different things that go into that game. So one is, um, well, can you go get the capital? Um, are you in a, in a market that'll allow you to get the capital? Uh, can you move to a market that allows you to get the capital? Um, how do you pitch the capital? How does pitching capital go? And then you get this, this kind of flywheel going between, you know, capital, um, talent, uh, business realization, capital, talent, right? And you're doing that, and the business realization obviously includes customers, includes go to market, includes building product and services, et cetera. And by the way, it's dynamic. So you say, "Well, I went and worked at a large company and I learned a bunch of things." Like, well yeah, but you didn't learn how you're default dead. You didn't learn how to launch a new product. You didn't learn how to... How do you start with a small product and grow to a larger product? (laughs) Right? You didn't learn how do you set up a team from scratch. And by the way, a team from scratch when the vast majority of human beings like more certainty- Mm-hmm. ... in what their week looks like. Yeah. Right? Like, I'm gonna come work at a place 'cause I can continue to work at a place, and as long as I'm capable of what I'm doing, I keep my job- (laughs) ... right? In terms of what I'm doing. And so I understand my certainty. So, so entrepreneurs have to do all that sort of thing. So in addition to kind of risk-taking, you have to be good at bringing many resources from different, uh, vectors into your vision and working with you. So there's investors, there's employees, there's customers- Mm-hmm. ... there's advisors, there's partners. You have to bring the right set of those people along with you in this iterative, this, this kind of i- you know, iterative journey. Um, you have to be able to grow yourself and learn, 'cause the game changes. Um, like one of the metaphors I use to, to, to train and, and conceptualize young entrepreneurs is ki- And there's a bunch of different parallels between military strategies, part of like the board games thing, and- Mm-hmm. ... and, and business strategy. But it's like Marines take the beach, Army takes the country, police governs the country. Three, three very crude, broad generalizations about how you do it. So you go, "What's your marine strategy?" Do you ha- 'Cause you must, as a C, Series A, you must have a good strategy how you get on the beach, how you get, you know, initial product market fit, how you're heading towards scale product market fit. Okay, you're there. How do you win the country, right? The market, right? What, how do you get to scale product market fit? How is that gonna work? How are you gonna play against competition different in these twos? How do you get up to scale? You have to learn this game is different than this game, (laughs) right? Ah, I see. And you're learning new things as you're doing it. So you have to have this kind of, um, th- what I refer to as being an infinite learner. Like you're learning what the new game is. 'Cause by the way, no entrepreneur shows up at door one, at day one going, "Well, I know how to do marketing. I know how to do sales. I know how to do, uh, product development. I know how to do engineering. I know how to do en- engineering operations. I know how..." Like, no, no, no. You have to bring all that in. You'll be learning what you need to learn in order to do that and through that. And, and, and, and that's part of how you, you grow into that. And then, by the way, once you've established a business, because the thing, another thing that brings in a lot of competition is people say, "Ooh, that's a valuable business. I'd like to possibly be that." And then you, then a new generation of heavy competitors come in. So can you, can you kind of keep your position and grow your position in a market? Which is the police part, right? The police part, yes, exactly. And so, so you have to, you have to look, and each of these three is different games. And there's more games than that, but it's a, a way of kind of simply understanding it. So, uh, always being learning, being an infinite learner and changing your mindset. And so frequently, like for example, when I'm talking to an entrepreneur, um, uh, especially the first few times, is I will push them on their vision to see if they're learners. Now one, they should have persistence and grit because like, "No, I've thought about this. I've got a good plan. This is how I'm gonna go to market. I understand what the competition looks like." 'Cause if they go, "Oh, you're right. I should totally change that," you're like, "Okay." You have to have some grit and persistence. But on the other hand, if they're not like going, "Oh yeah, no, we encounter that. Yeah, we'd have to do something about that. Like if our competitors started doing that, and maybe we'd do this." Right? Mm-hmm. So they also are learning. They have flexibility. Mm-hmm. So you want that combination. Like one of the things about startups is, uh, you have to, um, bring kind of this dual-lensed focus of things that seemingly are a little contradictory. So like persistence, flexibility. Another one is- Mm-hmm. ... right now, long term. Right? Mm-hmm. Now you have to do right now, but if you don't have a long term of how your building is something that's insanely ambitious-No, you're never gonna get there. If- if- if you shoot for the hillside, you're never gonna get to the moon.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett24:12

       Mm-hmm.

   13. RHReid Hoffman24:12

       You have to shoot for the moon. So you're shooting for the moon, but it's me and my two friends in a garage right now. (laughs)

   14. SBSteven Bartlett24:18

       It's interesting 'cause the middle bit-

   15. RHReid Hoffman24:20

       (laughs) Yes.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett24:21

       ... (laughs) does that matter?

   17. RHReid Hoffman24:22

       It does, but it's, it's a ... Well, remember, like, the Marines, Army, Police.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett24:28

       Yeah.

   19. RHReid Hoffman24:29

       Army, when you're doing the Marines, is the middle bit.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett24:31

       Right. Okay.

   21. RHReid Hoffman24:32

       (laughs) Right?

   22. SBSteven Bartlett24:32

       Right. Yeah.

   23. RHReid Hoffman24:33

       So, so it does, but it's not ... By the way, and one of, again, mistakes, and that's part of the reason why there's another chapter in StartWithYou, is A-V-Z planning. The mistakes is, like, you have a plan and then you have a plan B. It's like, no, no. You have a plan, and then you have a lot of micro plan Bs. Right? So you're kinda like, "Well, if that doesn't work, then let's try this. If that doesn't work, then let's try this."

   24. SBSteven Bartlett24:53

       Mm-hmm.

   25. RHReid Hoffman24:54

       You know, and, and you're iterating through them. And when you know to do a major pivot-

   26. SBSteven Bartlett24:57

       Mm-hmm.

   27. RHReid Hoffman24:58

       'Cause, by the way, many successful businesses also do major pivots. Um, PayPal started as encryption on cell phones.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett25:07

       Mm-hmm.

   29. RHReid Hoffman25:07

       Right? That's, that's where it started, right?

   30. SBSteven Bartlett25:10

       Mm-hmm.
7. 25:30 – 36:52

   How Do I Know If My Business Is Good or Not?

   1. RHReid Hoffman25:30

   2. SBSteven Bartlett25:31

      So with your analogy of invading the beach, how do you know what beach to invade? Like, how do you know if you've got a good idea and how do you know what a good idea is? 'Cause most people, as I said, listen to this, they've got a business idea.

   3. RHReid Hoffman25:42

      Yeah.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett25:43

      And they, how do they know if it's good? And, part of the issue they often have is they've heard, anecdotally, or they've seen that someone else is already doing it-

   5. RHReid Hoffman25:51

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett25:51

      ... so they go, "Oh, gosh, it's already been done."

   7. RHReid Hoffman25:53

      Yeah. There's, call it two kinds of ideas. And frankly, by the way, you think, you know, there's over eight billion people in the world. The fact that you think you're the one person who's thought of this idea, you may not be doing math well. (laughs)

   8. SBSteven Bartlett26:10

      Hmm. Mm-hmm.

   9. RHReid Hoffman26:11

      Right? Um, so, so thinking you're the one person who's thought of the idea, that's a mistake, right?

   10. SBSteven Bartlett26:18

       Mm-hmm.

   11. RHReid Hoffman26:18

       The question is, are you the person who can pull it together into momentum and, and pull it together? And it's still, by the way, that may be, "Well, okay, that gets down to 100 people. Okay. Well, am I the one who's in motion right now? Am I the motion, person who's willing to take the risk, quit my job and do it?"

   12. SBSteven Bartlett26:37

       Mm-hmm.

   13. RHReid Hoffman26:37

       Um, and you never really get down to one, right? So, so startups are risky businesses. Like, one of the things, this gets back to entrepreneurs, like, I think the greatest chance, even when I was starting LinkedIn, after having started SocialNet, after having, you know, uh, co-founded PayPal as a board member. Even when I was starting LinkedIn, what I would tell the people is like, "Look, we have about a maximum of 20, 25% chance of being successful." Right?

   14. SBSteven Bartlett27:04

       Mm-hmm.

   15. RHReid Hoffman27:04

       Just to be clear, (laughs) right?

   16. SBSteven Bartlett27:06

       Mm-hmm.

   17. RHReid Hoffman27:07

       We're gonna try to grow that to 100%, (laughs) right?

   18. SBSteven Bartlett27:09

       Mm-hmm.

   19. RHReid Hoffman27:10

       But, but we're a couple people in a garage right now, (laughs) right?

   20. SBSteven Bartlett27:14

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   21. RHReid Hoffman27:16

       Like, there's all kinds of things that can go wrong. Anyone who's telling you it's 100% now, they're lying to themselves or they're lying to you.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett27:22

       Mm-hmm.

   23. RHReid Hoffman27:22

       And, and, you know, like, I'm very realist and ambitious in my strategy. And so, so you're, you should never think you're starting something 100%. Now, within the ideas, you can go, there's, roughly speaking, two kinds of ideas. One kind of idea is, eh, people generally think that's a good idea. They think it's a good idea because you go to customers and customers say, "Yeah, I'd like that." Right?

   24. SBSteven Bartlett27:46

       Mm-hmm.

   25. RHReid Hoffman27:46

       They go to, they go, "Oh, well, hey, AI is gonna create a whole bunch of new SaaS businesses," right? Oh, yeah. That makes sense. New, new technology tras- transformation, (laughs) right?

   26. SBSteven Bartlett27:55

       Mm-hmm.

   27. RHReid Hoffman27:55

       A whole bunch of that. Or people in e-commerce, they're gonna wanna buy this kind of stuff. Okay. You know, makes sense. So there's a stack of things where they're pretty measurable as ideas. Like, you can measure them with customers, you can, you can, you can do feedback and polling and other kinds of things. Now, the good new- There's good news, bad news on this category. The good news is, you can de-risk, is there a market for your idea, mostly. Not, not entirely, but mostly. The bad news is, so can a lot of other people.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett28:25

       Yeah. (laughs)

   29. RHReid Hoffman28:25

       (laughs) Right? And so in this category, there always tends to be competition, and your competitive strategy, generally speaking, needs to be why against, like, in this category, you should be expecting competition. Why am I gonna win out sufficiently against this competition in a global arena? I have invested in those businesses, Greylock invests in a bunch of those businesses 'cause we do b- we're, you know, one of the best VCs in enterprise on the planet, you know, blah, blah, blah. Then, um, the other kind of idea, which is the one I tend to start and the one I tend to most invest in, is people think that you're, uh, that you're crazy when you're starting your business. And by the way, that can be a ... By the way, and frequently you are, (laughs) right?

   30. SBSteven Bartlett29:12

       Mm-hmm. Yeah.
8. 36:52 – 38:55

   What Was LinkedIn Like When It First Started?

   1. RHReid Hoffman36:52

      it would kick in.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett36:53

      The model of LinkedIn, obviously I, I know LinkedIn more today than I did back then in, what, 19 ... No, so 2002?

   3. RHReid Hoffman37:00

      2003.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett37:01

      2000, 2003 and then really got-

   5. RHReid Hoffman37:03

      May 5th, 2003 is when we turned it on.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett37:05

      Really?

   7. RHReid Hoffman37:05

      For the public, yes.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett37:06

      Wow. A- and back then, was it a social network as it is now, where there's a newsfeed and people-

   9. RHReid Hoffman37:12

      Nope.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett37:12

       ... talking to each other? Or was it more of a, a public CV?

   11. RHReid Hoffman37:18

       It was a public CV with a search capability and ability to communicate with people.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett37:23

       Okay, interesting. So the network effects were slightly less important than the model is today because-

   13. RHReid Hoffman37:28

       Yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett37:28

       ... a lot of people today are using it not for-

   15. RHReid Hoffman37:30

       Yeah.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett37:30

       ... to search for a job or, or a professional, but to talk about themselves-

   17. RHReid Hoffman37:34

       Yeah.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett37:34

       ... or to share their life-

   19. RHReid Hoffman37:35

       Yes.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett37:35

       ... et cetera.

   21. RHReid Hoffman37:36

       And, and we knew that we would get to a growing network effect. Like for example, again, part of the, you know, Marines, Army, Police is your network effects may very much evolve. You may start with no network effects. That's fine.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett37:48

       Yeah.

   23. RHReid Hoffman37:49

       But you have a plan. (laughs)

   24. SBSteven Bartlett37:51

       Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So am I right in thinking, 'cause around then s- there were social networks emerging that were very focused on people conversating with each other. Whereas LinkedIn, b- by design, it didn't really, really matter if anybody was chatting to you about what they ate for dinner that day.

   25. RHReid Hoffman38:08

       No.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett38:08

       So a new network could penetrate the market that was less dependent on the, like, social networking component.

   27. RHReid Hoffman38:15

       Yes.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett38:15

       'Cause if I go in there and make a profile and put my CV up, it doesn't really matter if I don't come back for four days.

   29. RHReid Hoffman38:20

       Yes, exactly. Yes.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett38:21

       'Cause I can get an email that will bring me back in saying, "Oh, there's a job here."
9. 38:55 – 42:09

   Why Were So Many Successful People from the PayPal Mafia?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett38:55

      realize you were-

   2. RHReid Hoffman38:55

      Yeah.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett38:55

      ... invested in Friendster as well.

   4. RHReid Hoffman38:56

      Yes.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett38:57

      You were part of what they call the PayPal mafia.

   6. RHReid Hoffman38:59

      Yes.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett38:59

      I know you use a different term.

   8. RHReid Hoffman39:01

      Network. It's, it's, it's less, it has less pizazz, but we weren't really a criminal group. (laughs)

   9. SBSteven Bartlett39:07

      (laughs) But mafia is cool as well.

   10. RHReid Hoffman39:09

       Yes, yes.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett39:09

       Uh, people, people love the term mafia. And through that time you worked with the likes of, uh, Elon, you knew Peter Thiel from your days at university. Um, eh, I mean, everybody asks this question about PayPal and why it was so successful, but also why so many of the alumni of PayPal went on to become multi-billionaires. I think seven people that, that were-

   12. RHReid Hoffman39:31

       Uh-huh.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett39:32

       ... part in that sort of, part of that sort of early PayPal founding team went on to create Tesla, YouTube, Reddit, SpaceX, LinkedIn. Was it talent density? Was it, was that what made the PayPal mafia?

   14. RHReid Hoffman39:44

       Well, it certainly was a component. And so it's, it's, it's, it's a couple of things. So one, um, that high density talent of folks who are willing to take intensive risks, want to do contrarian things, believe in what their contrarian thing is against common sense wisdom, that's one part. Another part is, um, when PayPal went public, it was one of, it was a, it was a technology winter. It was one of two technology companies that went public that year.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett40:16

       Wow.

   16. RHReid Hoffman40:17

       Right? So all of a sudden... And then got bought by eBay. So all of a sudden you had this talent group of people that had a bunch of money in their pockets and the network within, and that believed in the consumer internet. So the network of Silicon Valley at that point had thought the consumer internet was played.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett40:37

       Mm-hmm.

   18. RHReid Hoffman40:37

       They were going into clean tech and to enterprise.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett40:40

       Mm-hmm.

   20. RHReid Hoffman40:40

       So if you asked, if you tried to ping a venture capitalist about, "I have a new consumer internet idea," they wouldn't even take a meeting with you. They would take a meeting if it was clean tech, and they'd take a meeting if it was enterprise software.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett40:51

       Mm-hmm.

   22. RHReid Hoffman40:51

       (laughs) Right? Now, then you get all the, the, the PayPal people coming out going, "Hey, I can fund my own initial idea. I've got this great idea, YouTube." (laughs)

   23. SBSteven Bartlett41:02

       Mm-hmm.

   24. RHReid Hoffman41:03

       "LinkedIn."

   25. SBSteven Bartlett41:04

       Mm-hmm.

   26. RHReid Hoffman41:04

       "And I can fund it and I can get it going." And then, and this is part of the Web 2.0 movement. This is a, I tr- I coined the term Internet 2.0, and then Tim, uh, O'Reilly, uh, made the much better term Web 2.0. (laughs)

   27. SBSteven Bartlett41:16

       Mm-hmm.

   28. RHReid Hoffman41:17

       Right?

   29. SBSteven Bartlett41:17

       Mm-hmm.

   30. RHReid Hoffman41:17

       And so the, uh, these folks going, "No, no, the consumer internet is like, that was just the first wave on the beach. The tsunami is still coming."
10. 42:09 – 48:57

    The Importance of Sales

    1. RHReid Hoffman42:09

       uh, suite of success.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett42:11

       You know, I'll often hazard a guess at what the, like, the f- the fundamental game of business is for a startup founder. And I've hazarded a guess before that it's recruiting the best group of people you possibly can, binding them with a culture that gets the best out of them, and setting them a vision that's worthwhile. But from reading your work, there's a couple of things just from hearing you today...Sales is so, like, turned into all this-

    3. RHReid Hoffman42:32

       Well, whatever your go-to-market is.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett42:33

       Yeah.

    5. RHReid Hoffman42:33

       And it can be sales-

    6. SBSteven Bartlett42:34

       Yeah.

    7. RHReid Hoffman42:34

       B2B enterprise, et cetera. But, like, for example, in, in social networks, it's usually a viral, you know, a viral marketing or viral growth plan.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett42:43

       So when I say sales, I actually mean, like, selling to-

    9. RHReid Hoffman42:46

       Oh, yes. Oh, 100%. Yes.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett42:47

        ... employees. Yeah. And, like, you-

    11. RHReid Hoffman42:48

        You must.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett42:49

        You said, like, partners, investors.

    13. RHReid Hoffman42:50

        Yes. Yes. 'Cause you have to, "Come, come on board my vision."

    14. SBSteven Bartlett42:53

        Yeah.

    15. RHReid Hoffman42:54

        Invest in my vision. 'Cause by the way, a partner, when you're a startup, is also investing in your vision.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett42:59

        Yeah.

    17. RHReid Hoffman42:59

        An employee is investing in your vision.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett43:02

        Yeah.

    19. RHReid Hoffman43:02

        Right?

    20. SBSteven Bartlett43:03

        How do you be good at that? (laughs)

    21. RHReid Hoffman43:05

        There's a limited set of skills that you can actually teach to entrepreneurs, versus the entrepreneurs just learning by doing.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett43:11

        Mm-hmm.

    23. RHReid Hoffman43:12

        One of them is pitching, right? One of them is understanding the, "How do I communicate my vision in a way that other people can now go, 'That's really exciting. I want to join your vision with you.'"

    24. SBSteven Bartlett43:25

        And if I was a young entrepreneur telling you, "Right, I wanna be better at pitching my vision-"

    25. RHReid Hoffman43:29

        Yeah.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett43:29

        "... so I can get world-class people to join me- "

    27. RHReid Hoffman43:31

        Yeah.

    28. SBSteven Bartlett43:31

        "... world-class investors, partners," is there any advice you could give me on things I should and shouldn't do?

    29. RHReid Hoffman43:36

        Uh, yeah, absolutely. And by the way, there's, we could spend the entire podcast-

    30. SBSteven Bartlett43:41

        Mm-hmm.
11. 48:57 – 55:02

    How Important Is Hiring in Business?

    1. RHReid Hoffman48:57

       no, no, learning curve.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett48:58

       When you look at your portfolio of investments and the entrepreneurs you meet, do you think young entrepreneurs realize how significant hiring is to their eventual outcome? Because they tend to focus on, like, how good the product is-

    3. RHReid Hoffman49:09

       Yeah.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett49:09

       ... or sometimes capital. But I, just looking at my own portfolio-

    5. RHReid Hoffman49:13

       Yeah.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett49:13

       ... I, I often find myself, like, uh, feeling like an old man 'cause I'm telling them that, like, "Spend more time hiring."

    7. RHReid Hoffman49:18

       Yes.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett49:18

       "Not just hiring your friends 'cause they're willing to come work here."

    9. RHReid Hoffman49:20

       Yes. A proxy for a founder, if you're not spending a third of your time hiring, you're very much under-delivering. This is the thing. It's like, look, uh, life is a team sport. Companies are team sports.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett49:34

        Mm-hmm.

    11. RHReid Hoffman49:35

        Right? If you could just do it yourself, you wouldn't hire anybody. No, you're hiring people. So, like, you say, "Well, I've got a really good..." Let's, you know, u- use a European football analogy. "I've got a really good striker." Great. "Well, we don't need to wo- worry about the half-backs or defensive or..." (laughs)

    12. SBSteven Bartlett49:49

        Mm-hmm.

    13. RHReid Hoffman49:49

        ... you know, goalkeeper." No, no. You have to hire all things. And you go, "Well, I'm a really good half-back." That's great. You need the others too.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett49:59

        I think when I was young, I was 18, 19 years old, I, somewhere in my brain, thought my outcomes were gonna be determined by how hard I worked-

    15. RHReid Hoffman50:06

        Yeah.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett50:06

        ... and how good my ideas were.

    17. RHReid Hoffman50:07

        Yeah.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett50:07

        And it wasn't until I accidentally hired someone fantastic that I realized- (laughs)

    19. RHReid Hoffman50:11

        Yes.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett50:11

        ... the absolute tremendous impact that an A player can have-

    21. RHReid Hoffman50:14

        Yes. Yes.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett50:14

        ... on everything.

    23. RHReid Hoffman50:15

        Yes.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett50:15

        And that was just such a mental shift for me.

    25. RHReid Hoffman50:17

        Yeah, yeah. Literally, I, I think Zuckerberg puts this in a very good way. He wants to hire people he would work for.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett50:24

        Hmm. And why? Why is that?

    27. RHReid Hoffman50:28

        'Cause that's a demonstration of high talent.

    28. SBSteven Bartlett50:30

        Okay, yeah. Yeah. When you're a young founder, you're somewhat insecure though.

    29. RHReid Hoffman50:34

        Yeah.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett50:34

        You think, "Oh, God. Why would that person wanna come work here?" Or, "I can't afford them," or...
12. 55:02 – 57:28

    What Are the Different Types of Entrepreneurs?

    1. SBSteven Bartlett55:02

       types of success.

    2. RHReid Hoffman55:03

       Yeah.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett55:03

       Presumably, there's many different types of entrepreneur, leader.

    4. RHReid Hoffman55:06

       Yes.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett55:07

       Give me a flavor of the different types of entrepreneurs-

    6. RHReid Hoffman55:10

       Hm.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett55:10

       ... you've worked with.

    8. RHReid Hoffman55:11

       Okay.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett55:11

       And, and what, you know, 'cause I, I sat with Walter Isaacson-

    10. RHReid Hoffman55:14

        Mm-hmm.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett55:15

        ... and he talked to me about Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, et cetera. And it was like, "Steve's really great at hiring people. Elon's not as good as, at the people, team-building part-

    12. RHReid Hoffman55:22

        Yes.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett55:22

        ... but he's better at this part."

    14. RHReid Hoffman55:24

        Yes. So, no entrepreneur wins at every game.

    15. SBSteven Bartlett55:29

        Mm-hmm.

    16. RHReid Hoffman55:31

        Generally speaking, as an entrepreneur, you should try to win, to, to play the games that you have a massive competitive edge on. Same thing is true. So, some people, for example, um, uh, like take Aneel Bhusri at Workday, right? He is thoughtful, intentionally cultural building, very professional to, it's a HR, uh, product for work. His contrarian idea was going to the cloud, and that people were gonna do cloud software. Um, for the first, I think it was 500 people that Workday hired, he would always do a cultural interview at the end 'cause it, to make sure that the first 500 people all kinda shared cultural things. So, once you get through all the competence and all the rest of the stuff, he would make sure that was a fit. And that's part of how you get cultural coherence. That's, like, one example (laughs) right? Um, another example, um, Elon is the, um, like, "I have a big idea, and I convince myself 100% that it's absolutely going to be the case." Like, "I am going to settle Mars. We're gonna terraform Mars in our lifetimes," which is, no, it's impossible. He, the, no, no human being on the planet, including Elon, is going to do that within Elon's lifetime, (laughs) right? But, "I'm gonna go all in. I'm gonna work really hard. I'm gonna be technologically sophisticated. I'm gonna work against the odds, (laughs) right, in order to make that work." That's a ... You know, e- uh, Aneel, very professional, understands the workplace mark. Elon, like, I think I was, like, the second person he pitched SpaceX to. And, and his pitch though, to my defense, was, "I'm gonna send a turtle to Mars." (laughs) And I'm like, "That's not a business, (laughs) right? And you're competing with national governments and, like, Russian-subsidized rocket programs and so forth. This is not a good eq-" I was wrong. He was right, (laughs) right? But it's not a good equity,

13. 57:28 – 1:03:02

    Elon Musk’s Approach to Business

    1. RHReid Hoffman57:28

       you know, kind of play, (laughs) right?

    2. SBSteven Bartlett57:29

       He pitched it to you as an investor?

    3. RHReid Hoffman57:31

       Yes.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett57:32

       Yeah.

    5. RHReid Hoffman57:33

       Right.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett57:33

       At what point was SpaceX at when he pitched it?

    7. RHReid Hoffman57:36

       That was before he started it.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett57:37

       So, it was an idea? (laughs)

    9. RHReid Hoffman57:39

       (laughs) Yes. "And I'm gonna send a turtle to Mars." And then it became, "I'm gonna send a gelatinous cube with plant seeds in it to Mars 'cause they'll grow. I'll be the first person who will send life to Mars!" And you're like, "Well, okay," (laughs) right?

    10. SBSteven Bartlett57:50

        What did you think, genuinely, when he said that to you?

    11. RHReid Hoffman57:54

        I thought he'd gone off his rocker.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett57:56

        Really?

    13. RHReid Hoffman57:57

        Well, yeah.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett57:57

        Y- of course you would, yeah.

    15. RHReid Hoffman57:58

        (laughs)

    16. SBSteven Bartlett57:58

        Like, uh, if someone's f- if my friend said that to me, I think I'd make a couple of calls-

    17. RHReid Hoffman58:01

        (laughs)

    18. SBSteven Bartlett58:01

        ... just to check in. You know what I mean? (laughs)

    19. RHReid Hoffman58:03

        Yes. (laughs)

    20. SBSteven Bartlett58:03

        Like, "Is Elon doing okay?"

    21. RHReid Hoffman58:05

        (laughs) Yes.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett58:05

        "He's just told me about this turtle. It was-" (laughs)

    23. RHReid Hoffman58:07

        Yes. It's like, "That's not a business." (laughs) Right?

    24. SBSteven Bartlett58:10

        Has your opinion of him changed over time, in terms of his potential and ability as an entrepreneur?

    25. RHReid Hoffman58:18

        No, no, I've always thought of him as one of the world's great entrepreneurs. Um-

    26. SBSteven Bartlett58:22

        Always?

    27. RHReid Hoffman58:23

        Yeah. All, all the way back to PayPal days.

    28. SBSteven Bartlett58:25

        Really?

    29. RHReid Hoffman58:26

        Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, look, he has done repetitively amazing things. Now, he pitches everything with the same level of certainty, right? Like, you know, "I have this idea for online banking. I have this idea for boring tunnels under cities. I have this idea for creating a pneumatic tube for hyperloop tubes." All of them, he has the same level of, "I am 1,000% right that this is, like, guaranteed to be part of the future," right? "And I, you know, and I may be the unique person to make it happen," right? So, you have to have some discernment. But he's, his, you know, on-base batting is pretty good, (laughs) right?

    30. SBSteven Bartlett59:04

        Yeah. For such major ideas as well.
14. 1:03:02 – 1:08:10

    Work-Life Balance in Startups

    1. RHReid Hoffman1:03:02

       working experience of my life. Of course I'll work with him again."

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:04

       Interesting. 'Cause there's a lot of entrepreneurs that are coming, rising through the ranks at the moment that have kind of been raised on the Elon philosophy of do shit tons of things, do them intently, do them with, uh, less of a regard for the, I guess, the human consequence.

    3. RHReid Hoffman1:03:21

       Yeah.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:21

       Do them with less of a regard for work-life balance.

    5. RHReid Hoffman1:03:24

       Yeah. Well, you have to have the nature of this thing, 'cause it's, it's, you know, you're by nature dead as a startup. Work-life balance is not the startup game, right? So, like, uh, uh, like, what, when, like, when we started LinkedIn, we started with people who had families. So we said, "Sure, go home, have dinner with your family. Then after you're done with your family, open up your laptop and get back into the shared work experience and keep working."

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:51

       If you say that today though, you're toxic.

    7. RHReid Hoffman1:03:54

       The people who think it's toxic don't understand the to- the startup game, and they're just wrong, (laughs) right? The, the game is intense. And by the way, if you don't do that, then eventually you're out of a job.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:08

       Hmm. I mean, the people that say it's toxic are often those that have never had to do it.

    9. RHReid Hoffman1:04:12

       Yes. And, and look, that's fine. It's not that everyone has to work at startups. Working at a startup is a voluntary choice, right?

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:19

        (laughs)

    11. RHReid Hoffman1:04:19

        But that's the game for a startup. And so that's how we try to balance w- in the early days of LinkedIn, we try to balance how to be human, 'cause we, like, a third of the company had kids, right? And so you're like, "Okay, like, we all have to work this way." So we can't say, "Oh, you third, sure, you guys can go home and you're out of the office and then, and then, and then call in or whatever." No, like, like, we'll all go for dinner and then we'll all plan on getting back to work after dinner. So you get time with your family, you get to have dinner with your kids, it's the right human thing, (laughs) right?

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:53

        Mm-hmm.

    13. RHReid Hoffman1:04:53

        But we're working hard. And Saturday morning, we're working.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:57

        Is there a way to build a startup, in your opinion, where you have work-life balance? And w- I, I define work-life balance maybe as being able to see your friends often, spend time with your family often.

    15. RHReid Hoffman1:05:10

        Um, only in two circumstances. One, it's a small startup. Uh, it's both comp- the, it's both an absence of competition. That's the general. One is, it's so small, no one's really competing with you, that's fine.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:23

        Okay, right.

    17. RHReid Hoffman1:05:24

        (laughs) Right.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:24

        An ice cream van in a village.

    19. RHReid Hoffman1:05:25

        Yeah. Yeah, that's fine, (laughs) right? Um, number two, you have some such intense competitive moat that people can't compete with you. Like say, for example, you have some, like, the only thing that matters in this business is contracts with these three companies, and you have those three contracts.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:45

        Okay.

    21. RHReid Hoffman1:05:45

        Fine. But absent that, that's the reason, 'cause the, the startups that you're c- if you're in a valuable space, the startups that you're competing with, right? Like, we had to make the deliberate decision, like, startups we're competing with aren't going home for dinner, right? They're serving dinner at the office. That's why we did PayPal. We served dinner at the office at PayPal.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:04

        Mm-hmm.

    23. RHReid Hoffman1:06:04

        (laughs) Right? Right. And that was a deliberate thing. We were one of the first companies that started not only serving lunch, but serving dinner, right?

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:11

        Mm-hmm.

    25. RHReid Hoffman1:06:11

        And then other, 'cause it's the learning network you get with Silicon Valley, other companies are looking, they go, "Oh yeah, we're gonna serve dinner too." (laughs) Right?

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:18

        So people don't go home.

    27. RHReid Hoffman1:06:19

        Yeah, don't go home. Keep working, right?

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:22

        To some people, this does, it sounds somewhat toxic, right? It sounds like, oh God, but that's not what life's about. This is like capitalism. This is-

    29. RHReid Hoffman1:06:29

        Yeah.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:29

        ... people just wanting to make loads of money.
15. 1:08:10 – 1:12:03

    Stepping Back as CEO for LinkedIn

    1. RHReid Hoffman1:08:10

       fine.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:11

       Which is a, a tr- trade-off that was-

    3. RHReid Hoffman1:08:13

       Yes.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:13

       ... clearly worth making.

    5. RHReid Hoffman1:08:15

       Yes.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:16

       You stepped back as CEO after four years when you were at LinkedIn, right?

    7. RHReid Hoffman1:08:19

       Yeah, yes.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:20

       Why did you do that?

    9. RHReid Hoffman1:08:21

       So, um, I had had, um, awareness of strengths and weaknesses. Like, I know how to do the CEO job, right? Um, uh, and I think it kind of, uh, 150 people or less, I'm as good as anyone else, right? Like, that, that, that scale of CEO job, um, is a scale that I, that operates within my strengths and weaknesses. Um, when you start getting to, call it 500 people, 1,000 people, part of the CEO job ends up becoming, like, how do you govern the community of the company? Now, it's not the only thing, but like, okay, like, you know, what, the kinds of things that Jeff Weiner, that I learned from him on was, all right, well, you start thinking of recruiting not as you going out and individually recruiting people or helping your hiring manager recruiting people, but you think about recruiting as a general strategy for the company. And how does that general strategy work and how do you have, like for example, you get to this point in these scale companies where you start having onboarding days. So like for example, new employees start at one of the onboarding days, and they start as a group together, right?

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:09:35

        Mm-hmm.

    11. RHReid Hoffman1:09:35

        So it's kind of like, okay, we're going through kinda how it works and we're integrating people into their different group. They, like, you know, the salespeople, the engineers, they all start, and they're going into their different groups where like, we're approaching it as, as the engine of the company. And the things that I... You're only world-class about the things you're passionate about. The things I'm passionate about is like the technology strategy, the product strategy, um, the, um, the kind of the big idea for what you're doing there. And I love working with super high-powered talent.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:05

        Mm-hmm.

    13. RHReid Hoffman1:10:05

        And one of the things that I had kinda learned is, well, that's the reason I like working with founders, that's the reason I like working with CEOs-

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:10

        Mm-hmm.

    15. RHReid Hoffman1:10:11

        ... because to some degree it's like, okay, you're the talent I'm working with on this company-

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:16

        Mm-hmm.

    17. RHReid Hoffman1:10:16

        ... right?

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:16

        Mm-hmm.

    19. RHReid Hoffman1:10:16

        In order to do that. And so I was like, "Eh, I like doing more of being a board member, working with CEOs more than I like being the CEO once you get past, you know, 150 people."

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:31

        Mm.

    21. RHReid Hoffman1:10:31

        So that's what I should be doing, and what I need to do is I need to get LinkedIn to a point where it's already, you know, i- i- it's, it's already kind of hit breakout velocity.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:42

        (laughs) Mm-hmm.

    23. RHReid Hoffman1:10:43

        Right? And so you can recruit now a world-class CEO that you can work with.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:49

        Mm-hmm.

    25. RHReid Hoffman1:10:49

        Right? And that's what, that's what I should do. And, you know, I, like for example, the entire time that Jeff Weiner was the CEO of LinkedIn, my primary office was immediately next door to his.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:02

        Interesting. So you stayed close, but you-

    27. RHReid Hoffman1:11:05

        Yeah.

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:06

        Yeah, a- look, again, this is another point of self-awareness, which a lot of founders don't have, but the great founders that I've met and interviewed, whether it's, I don't know, Brian Chesky or whether it was some founders from the UK like Ben at Gymshark and Julien from Huel, one of the things that really defined them was they did a low ego move to move out of that CEO role-

    29. RHReid Hoffman1:11:24

        Yeah.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:25

        ... which is typically associated with, like, the glitz and the glam-
16. 1:12:03 – 1:13:43

    How Does Life Change When You Become a Billionaire?

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:03

       And at the time, it was reported you owned about 11% of the company, which made you a multi-billionaire. How does life change-

    2. RHReid Hoffman1:12:12

       (laughs)

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:12

       ... when one becomes a multi-billionaire?

    4. RHReid Hoffman1:12:13

       (laughs) So it's funny. I try to never, like, like one of the funny things, I never repost things that call me billionaire and so forth 'cause I try to not have that identity. I am aware that it's an accurate descriptor.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:25

       Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

    6. RHReid Hoffman1:12:26

       (laughs) Right? Um, but it's not, like, the way I think of myself. I don't think of myself as Reid Hoffman, billionaire. I think of myself as Reid Hoffman, technologist. Reid Hoffman, public intellectual. Reid Hoffman, uh, creative, you know, strategist. Reid Hoffman, et cetera. So I try to, um, change my life as, in those directions, not in the, the wealth direction. Now, of course, you know, I travel around in a private plane. (laughs)

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:53

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    8. RHReid Hoffman1:12:54

       You know, I own houses in several different areas of the world, you know, that kind of stuff.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:59

       Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    10. RHReid Hoffman1:12:59

        (laughs) Right? Um, but, uh, I try to live a life within those...... you know, high wealth things as much of a, as an upper middle class person as I can. So for example, before I came here to do the interview, I, I got here a little early, so I went to the nearby Starbucks. Had a cup of coffee, pull up my laptop-

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:13:19

        Mm-hmm.

    12. RHReid Hoffman1:13:19

        (laughs) Was working on it.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett1:13:21

        Interesting.

    14. RHReid Hoffman1:13:21

        You know? 'Cause, 'cause that's the way that I wanna live (laughs) , right? Uh, and I want human relationships that are like that. I think human relationships are really important. I feel lucky to have, um, relationships with some people who are these really, really amazing people. But, by the way, there's amazing people who are, like, world celebrities and there's amazing people who the world doesn't know about.

17. 1:13:43 – 1:17:57

    Political Stance as a Billionaire

    1. RHReid Hoffman1:13:43

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:13:43

       Mm-hmm.

    3. RHReid Hoffman1:13:43

       I just like, I just like going through life with amazing people and that's part of what I mean by that.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:13:48

       You've always been associated with the left side of politics.

    5. RHReid Hoffman1:13:52

       Mm-hmm.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:13:52

       Your parents were very, uh-

    7. RHReid Hoffman1:13:54

       Yes.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:13:54

       ... left-leaning to, to say the least. I, I heard that you got sp- pepper-sprayed when you were a kid because-

    9. RHReid Hoffman1:13:59

       'Cause I was, I was a kid on my, uh, father's shoulder at a demonstration (laughs) .

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:05

        Of that full left-wing-

    11. RHReid Hoffman1:14:06

        Against the, against the Vietnam War.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:07

        Okay, so that's, that means it's in your DNA.

    13. RHReid Hoffman1:14:09

        (laughs) Yes.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:10

        The, the thing about being on the left is, it's typically the left that have a opinion of billionaires that they're evil. (laughs)

    15. RHReid Hoffman1:14:16

        Uh-huh, yes. I'm-

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:17

        I'm aware of that. (laughs) But not just billionaires, you know?

    17. RHReid Hoffman1:14:18

        I've been c- I've been, I've been called evil by a number of people on the left.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:21

        Really?

    19. RHReid Hoffman1:14:21

        Yes, of course. Uh, look, uh, I, they are wrong that that is a necessary correlation.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:28

        Mm-hmm.

    21. RHReid Hoffman1:14:28

        (laughs) Right? Um, but I, look, I, I try to understand people. I understand their perspective. I disagree with it, but I understand it.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:36

        Hmm. It's, eh, I mean, you're f- (laughs) you're one of the few people that's still a billionaire and on the left, it seems. (laughs)

    23. RHReid Hoffman1:14:42

        No, I'm not. Uh, I actually-

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:43

        In the Valley.

    25. RHReid Hoffman1:14:44

        No, no, n-

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:44

        Especially this election cycle.

    27. RHReid Hoffman1:14:46

        Uh, well-

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:47

        It's the public-facing people that we see on the podcasts and-

    29. RHReid Hoffman1:14:49

        Yes.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:49

        ... stuff and-

Episode duration: 2:52:13