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The Diary of a CEOThe Diary of a CEO

Richard Branson: How A Dyslexic Drop-out Build A Billion Dollar Empire!

Told at school that he would either be successful or in prison, with a value of over $3 BILLION and earth’s atmosphere the only thing trapping him (for now), it’s an understatement to say that Sir Richard Branson became a success. Topics 0:00 Intro 02:07 Your parents 07:27 Your ability to always push forwards 10:03 Dyslexia 13:06 Starting a student magazine 14:51 Using failure to self educate 19:04 What are you really good at? 24:40 You break the law of focus in business 28:36 Expanding to get out of trouble 33:25 Why did you start an airline? 37:39 Why did virgin win? 43:54 Being synonymous with your brand 47:12 Using competition to build a better brand 49:28 Selling your record business 51:21 Looking back on your life 54:01 Why did you want to go to space 56:54 The cost of all these endeavours 01:01:08 The passing of your mother eve 01:04:16 Saying parting words to your family 01:09:25 What is a life worth living? 01:10:51 The last guests question Branson is available to watch on demand on Sky Documentaries and streaming service NOW in the UK Richard: http://bit.ly/3FHqy48 http://bit.ly/3VTvAjJ Join this channel to get access to perks: https://bit.ly/3Dpmgx5 Listen on: Apple podcast - https://apple.co/3TTvxDf Spotify - https://spoti.fi/3VX3yEw Follow: Instagram: https://bit.ly/3CXkF0d Twitter: https://bit.ly/3ss7pM0 Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3z3CSYM Telegram: https://g2ul0.app.link/SBExclusiveCommun Sponsors: Mercedes-Benz - https://bit.ly/3yXTQI1 Wework - https://we.co/3PgoB1M Huel - https://g2ul0.app.link/G4RjcdKNKsb Intel - https://intel.ly/3UIYxxT

Richard BransonguestSteven Bartletthost
Dec 12, 20221h 16mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:07

    Intro

    1. RB

      You do think about, "Is it selfish? Is it worth it? Is it something..." So, um...

    2. SB

      Sir Richard Branson! Richard Branson is one of the most fun-loving and adventurous billionaires in the world.

    3. NA

      He's conquered our skies, blasted off into space. The entrepreneur's entrepreneur, the marketer's marketer.

    4. SB

      In the school of business, they said, "Focus. By the age of 33, you've got 50 different companies." You kind of break that law, it seems.

    5. RB

      If we'd stayed still and only focused on one business, we wouldn't have a business today. We're still going strong 55 years later. If you get the little details right, makes for an exceptional company over an average company. We were the first airline to introduce seat-back videos in the world, sleeper seats for business class passengers. We've always been ahead of the pack. The airline's been bullied by British Airways, famously through the Dirty Tricks campaign. The best always succeeds. (instrumental music plays)

    6. SB

      As if all of, that you'd done before wasn't enough, you decided to aim for the stars.

    7. NA

      We're going to space.

    8. RB

      Looking back at this beautiful, beautiful Earth that we live on (laughs) whilst floating, it was a dream come true. You know, we're still at the early stage of space travel. There's still risks.

    9. NA

      We had a problem here. One pilot has died after a passenger spaceship crashed.

    10. RB

      Everything that we'd built up, uh, looked like it was crashing down.

    11. SB

      What impact does that have on you and your mission?

    12. RB

      You've gotta continue.

    13. SB

      Before this episode starts, I have a small favor to ask from you. Two months ago, 74% of people that watch this channel didn't subscribe. We're now down to 69%. My goal is 50%. So if you've ever liked any of the videos we've posted, if you like this channel, can you do me a quick favor and hit the subscribe button? It helps this channel more than you know. And the bigger the channel gets, as you've seen, the bigger the guests get. Thank you and enjoy this episode. (instrumental music plays)

  2. 2:07 – 7:27

    Your parents

    1. SB

      Richard, having spent the last 24 hours reading both your autobiographies, but also your new HBO, um, docuseries, Eve, Your Mother, um, she f- she felt like a really, really extraordinarily principled and, um, strong character. And in the docuseries, you actually say that you didn't realize how much she had influenced y- you on becoming the entrepreneur you are today. What was it that she was doing? Uh, pushing you out the car at four, five years old and making you walk home, but what is, what was, were those principles that underlined her approach?

    2. RB

      So, I mean, she was one of the sort of, uh, (laughs) first entrepreneurs around, really. I mean, not, uh, you know, eh, not a particularly successful one, but she was, um, making table mats and, you know, cutting out pretty pictures from books and s- make... and, and, and, and, um, turning them, t- you know, tur- turning them into, uh, pictures that she would then take to Harrods or, um, Harvey Nichols. W- um, interestingly, and I, I didn't realize this until I r- saw it, saw it in some letters, uh, that she'd written to me, um, uh, um, you know, working from a phone box in, in, in London, um, and, um, uh, and that was her office, just like my office had been later on, wor- working from a phone box at school. Um, but, um, uh, yeah, but so, she, she would never stop. She wa- she, she was an idea, idea a minute, um, al- always trying to, um, uh, uh, you know, better, beh- better our lives, m- uh, bet- and, um, um, and al- always trying to create things that she could be proud of.

    3. SB

      When was, when was she most proud of you, in terms of what kind of behaviors or achievements would make her most happy when you were young?

    4. RB

      Um, she, um, yeah, she was, she was, um, fairly, uh... ye- uh, yeah, she wa- she was, uh, she was qu- fairly firm when it came to, uh, you know, the need for, um, you know, being courteous, um, from a young age. And I mean, I remember, uh, uh, in church one day, I refused to go and sit next to so- somebody that she wanted me to sit next to who'd... that was maybe visiting our house. Um, and when I got home, um, uh, she asked my dad to spank me, and, uh, that, that had never happened before. And my dad, um, takes me into, into the living r- into, into the next door room and, um, uh, and, um, instructs me to burst into tears, and he slaps his hands together very hard six times. (laughs)

    5. SB

      (laughs)

    6. RB

      I come out rubbing my bum. Um, but, um, um, and then of course, she regretted having done it in the first place, but of course, it never happened, so... (laughs)

    7. SB

      (laughs)

    8. RB

      Um, they, um, but, um, um, but that, you know, that, th- you know, she, sh- sh- she, she, you know, sh- she, j- generally speaking, it was, um, unreserved love, but she, she wanted us to, uh, care for other people properly. Um, you know, if we ever said ill about somebody, we'd be sent to the mirror and, uh, we'd have to stand there for 10 minutes, uh, because it, they, sh- you know, she felt it reflected so badly on us, uh, that we'd said ill of somebody. Um, and you know, those sort of les- lessons, I think were very, very, very powerful and very good, uh, later on in life when I was, you know, leading people, um, always trying to look for the best in, in everybody.

    9. SB

      One of the threads throughout your story, which, um, shocked me, surprised me, and inspired me in many ways throughout the docuseries was this continual desire to move on to the next thing and, and make things bigger and to capture another opportunity, which struck me as being, at times, like, really defining character of, of you. You know, even when s- things seemed to be successful, by anyone's estimation, you pushed on again, and then you'd push on again and again. Do you, do you have any idea where that instinct or that characteristic came from in you?

    10. RB

      I'm sure that came from, um...... uh, my mum. Um, I am son of Eve, which, which is my mum's name. Um, and, um, but it's al- also, I think, because I was dyslexic, um, and, you know, pretty hopeless at school, um, I've forever been trying to prove something to myself, um, and, um, and, and, pr- and prove something that, you know, when she was alive, to her and my dad. Um, and, um, uh, I'm inquisitive. I just love, I love learning about new things. Um, uh, and once I've actually absorbed everything there is to know about, you know, the, the, uh, the thing I've s- st- just created, I'm ap- apt to want to move on and learn, learn something about something completely different. Um, particularly if I feel other people are not doing it well. And, and, um, so I just love diving in there and, and, um, uh, trying to, you know, shake up an industry that is badly run.

    11. SB

      Do you think she, she and your father, Eve and your father,

  3. 7:27 – 10:03

    Your ability to always push forwards

    1. SB

      um, Ted, had high hopes for you?

    2. RB

      I think that, um, my mum, uh, definitely thought that I would be, um... Yeah. She, she, she, she es- she decided that I was gonna be Prime Minister of, uh, Britain one day.

    3. SB

      (laughs)

    4. RB

      And, um, uh, and I think that, um... Yeah. She, so she, (laughs) she definitely had high hopes for me. Um, uh, my dad just wanted, uh, us to be happy. I mean, he was, um, a very, uh, love- lovable, content, um, funny, uh, witty, uh, individual. Um, wanted to be an archeologist, but ended up, uh, go- going into the law after, after the war. And would've been happy, I think, what, you know, as long as we were happy. Um, he, he didn't mind. He didn't really want to push us. But, um, but my mum, I think, expected, expected more of us.

    5. SB

      You mentioned school, um, a few moments ago. You and me both have a similarity in that we were hopeless in school. You went off to boarding school at seven years old, which in and of itself is a ver- pretty extreme experience for a seven year old. You described this as being a little bit too young, in your view. Um, and you struggled. In part because of your dyslexia. At the time, did you, did you know what dyslexia was or what it meant?

    6. RB

      No. I had no idea what dyslexia was. I just, um, assumed that I must be a little bit thick. Um, I mean, I could just about add up and subtract, but when it got to more complicated stuff, uh, like algebra and geometry and the likes, I couldn't understand the reason for it. I wasn't interested in, in it. Y- you know, I couldn't understand why we were having to learn French when, when, um, nobody seemed to ever actually speak it when they left school. And, um, or Latin or... A- and, um, and so I suppose in my head, I rebelled against, um, being taught things that I couldn't see the relevance of. Um, and, um, and actually that was a good thing, 'cause it, it, it ended with me rebelling from actually staying at school and leaving school at 15. Um, and, uh, and creating some- e- e- e- and creating a magazine, uh, which, um, uh, to try to sort of s- uh, address some of the issues in the world.

    7. SB

      Your dyslexia, um, you've often highlighted that in many respects it's been a superpower. It's given you skills that have led to your success. What, what, what is that? What are those skills, and what is the advantage, in your view, of this dyslexia and

  4. 10:03 – 13:06

    Dyslexia

    1. SB

      how that's changed how you function and operate?

    2. RB

      Um, I think, uh, that, um... Well, first of all, I, I, I would like to say I'm proud of being a dyslexic thinker. Um, and I d- I'm delighted that, uh, dyslexic thinking is now becoming, um, almost part of the vocabulary. Um, um, and I'm pleased to, to, you know, talk to many dyslexic kids over the years to try to make them realize that, um, you know, you know, do not, do not b- be worried about it. Um, you know, look at, look at the areas that you, y- um, that you enjoy and cons- concentrate on those. Um, and the areas that you're not great at, um, you, uh, you know, either that you'll catch up later on in life, um, or, you know, if you're gonna start a business, you can delegate and find other people who can deal with those. Um, so I think dyslexic, d- d- dyslexic people really excel at the things that, things that they're, that interest them. Um, and I think a l- I know a lot of, a lot of business people, for instance, who were dyslexics, who've, um, who, uh, ha- have, h- have, have, um, gone, gone on to do incredible things.

    3. SB

      Your headmaster. Um, I, I read the very, uh, slightly humorous, slightly, um, shocking story of y- uh, when you were at boarding school. You had a little bit of a romantic run-in with his (laughs) his, his daughter, Charlotte. Uh, got expelled. Uh, staged a fake suicide, got un-expelled. Um, and then you, as you referenced a second ago, you had this idea for the student magazine. I read that there was a, an ultimatum given to you by your headmaster where he said, "Richard, I know you're starting this magazine. You've, you've either got to leave school or, um, st- and start the magazine or stay in school and focus on your fo- formal education." And at that point, you made the decision to jump ship.

    4. RB

      Yeah. I mean, I, I don't think the headmaster was very foresighted. I think, uh, you know, if a kid at school wants to start a national magazine for young people, what a great education and that they should have, well (laughs) , they should have welcomed us to stay at school and do it for, you know, within the, from, from school. Uh, but the headmaster...... wasn't going to, um, allow me to do that. Um, and, um, and thank God because, um, you know, getting out into the real world, uh, I'd, I'd achieved a lot more than I would have done, um, if he, if he'd, um, if h- if he, if he'd been pleasant (laughs) and said, uh, c- you know, "Run the magazine from school." Um, there were a lot, there was a lot going on in the world. Um, you know, there was the Vietnamese War. Um, there was the Biafran War. Um, there were, um, uh, the Provos in Holland. There was, um, uh, uh, y- uh, there was the education (laughs) system that needed students to rebel against. And, um, and th- and so it was, uh, it was an exciting time in the '60s to leave school, go to London,

  5. 13:06 – 14:51

    Starting a student magazine

    1. RB

      um, and, um, try to start a magazine.

    2. SB

      I watched your, um, as I watched your docuseries yesterday in that f- that theater, um, that we're all in, including yourself, one of the lines really struck qu- struck me when, when they showed the, the small room that you were building this magazine in. I know sometimes it was a post box, but sometimes there was a small room, I think at a later date. A l- a line was said which was, um, "This was my education."

    3. RB

      Yeah.

    4. SB

      And for young people who are considering take- taking a leap when they have very little responsibility or think, you know, very little to lose, throwing themselves in that kind of ... Throwing themselves in a situation where they'll fail their way to an education struck me as being so important and so underrated. When you don't have kids or you don't have a house or a mortgage, um, and it seems like that's exactly what you did. You used, like, failure and risk as a way to self-educate.

    5. RB

      Yeah. I mean, uh, it's difficult for me to recommend it to everybody listening to this program because, um, not everyone's going to be successful. And y- obviously, you and I have been fortunate that we, we have had success doing it that way. Um, some people, and, and, and I got to get, put my conservative hat on knowing that the parents may be listening as well, um, you know, some people will benefit from having an education, you know, degree or whatever to fall back on if they, if they're, if they're, they find that they're, i- they just can't make a go of it in business. Um, but anyway, for, I th- I, I think for the two of us, um, I think the, um, uh ... Yeah, being out in the real world, I mean, I learnt so much. Um, and, uh, um, and it, you know, it's held me into such good stead throu- throughout my life.

  6. 14:51 – 19:04

    Using failure to self educate

    1. RB

      Um, you know, in running a magazine, of course, you know, you're going out interviewing people, you're learning every time you interview somebody. Um, I, uh, I'd ... You know, I think, um, being, being a journalist or being a, being an editor, you, uh, it's not so different from being an entrepreneur. You're, you're out all the time meeting diff- new people in different sectors, just learning, learning, learning. Um, and, um, and, you know, through the magazine, uh, a lot of people would write with problems. Um, young people would write with problems. So, um, we ended up setting up a, a, a student advisory center, um, where we would, um, uh, give people advice on venereal disease or g- gay pe- the gay population or, um, or, um, you know, contraceptive advice, abortion advice, um, s- psychiatric advice. Um, you know, and, um, and, you know, just meeting all these people with all these different problems, suicidal, uh, uh, um, uh, uh, su- su- suicidal mental c- problems, um, really opened, opened my mind. It was just a fascinating, fascinating education and, um, and throughout my life since then, I've spent a lot of my life trying to, uh, address some of these issues in a, in a, in a f- first of all in a wider sense in London and now mor- more on a global scale. And, um, but, but that was, you know, that edu- education of, um, w- was so important. Um, you know, for instance, I remember when I was 15 in London, you know, s- somebody who was gay came to me saying that they wanted help and, um, maybe I, I'd just turned 16. And, um, and I thought very naively that b- when they said they wanted help that, you know, they didn't want to be gay. Um, of course, you know, within a month or two, I realized that, you know, that people are born gay and, uh, and, uh, and they don't have a choice in the matter.

    2. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    3. RB

      And, um, and what they, what they desperately need, needed in those days was to meet other gay people and, uh, 'cause it, 'cause, you know, if they came from, um, some remote place in the UK where gay people weren't accepted, um, they would come to London desperately seeking, uh, seeking love or see- seeking friendship. Um, and, um, uh, and, and so, y- you know, ba- just little things like that, um, I learnt from, um, just, just being out there, uh, listening and doing.

    4. SB

      Your ... That was s- that magazine was your, um, the first sort of big notable thing that you'd, you'd done in business and throughout your story, and even before I, I'd met you and watched the docuseries and read the book, I was told by other people Richard Branson's a sup- an amazing delegator. You mentioned it earlier on, your, your, your delegation skills. To understand how to delegate to someone else, you first, as you've said, need to understand your strengths and weaknesses, and also their strengths and weaknesses. So what is, what are your strengths in your own words? What is the bit of the puzzle that you're good at?

    5. RB

      I think I'm good with people. Um, I think, um, uh, I tru- I, I can trust people. I think I can surround myself with, um, uh, you know, with, with, with really, really good people. I think I'm, uh, able to, um, uh, yeah, to dele- to de- to delegate, not to second, second-guess them all the time. Um-... yeah, to praise, not criticize. Um, and, um, uh, and, uh, I, I think I'm, I think I'm quite good at, uh, if I create something, making sure it's the best, you know, the best in its area, um, so that the people who are working for Virgin are really proud of what they're doing. Um, uh, y- you know, it's really important that, um, you know, if, if, if somebody's in a pub and they work for Virgin and somebody says, "What do you do?" That they're, uh, they're proud of the fact that, that, you know, they work for Virgin and they're happy to say it. Um, and there are some companies that,

  7. 19:04 – 24:40

    What are you really good at?

    1. RB

      that, that, um, if people work for, they won't, they won't really want to be able to say that they work for such and such a company. Um, yeah, so I think, I, I, I think, I think the people skills, um, is, is, is, is the most important, um, skill. Um, I think, um, uh, just giving, giving, you know, g- giving things a try. Um, uh, you know, "Screw it, let's do it," obviously, is one of the phrase I made, kicked, did years ago. And, and, uh, and I've used that phrase many, many a time, you know, somebody comes with a- an idea and I like them. And, um, and, um, yeah, just say, um, you know, "Let- let's, let's give it a go." And, um, and sometimes we both... we, we all flat, fall flat on our face sometimes. Some- sometimes it succeeds.

    2. SB

      And conversely then, what are the, what are the weaknesses that you've kind of observed in yourself, or the things that you tend to delegate to other people? Um, I, I actually read something which said... which was a great view that said, "I once did an IQ, an IQ test at eight years old. I don't think I filled in anything. Going forward 30 or so years, I was running Europe's largest private group of companies, but I didn't know the difference between gross and net profit, but it didn't matter."

    3. RB

      Yes. I was in a board meeting, uh, when I was about 50 years old. And, um, uh, and the director, um, said, um... And I, I think I said, "Is that good news or bad news?" And then, then one of the directors said, "Come, come outside, Richard, a minute." So, came outside and he said, "You don't know the difference between net and gross, do you?" So I said, uh, "No." Um, uh... He said, "I thought not. Anyway, I brought a sheet of paper." So, he brings out this sheet of paper and he, uh, he's... he ca- he has some co- color pens and he, he colors it in blue, and then he puts a fishing net in the, um, in it. And then he puts little fish in the fishing net and he says, um, "So, the fishes are in the net, that's your profit at the end of the year. And the rest of the ocean, that's your gross turnover." And, um, I went, "I've got it."

    4. SB

      (laughs)

    5. RB

      And, uh, I was... Ever, ever since then I've been name-dropping net and gross to people who obviously know full, full well what it is. (laughs)

    6. SB

      (laughs)

    7. RB

      And, and, um, but the, but the point of the story is, uh, it really doesn't matter. Um, I mean, it's be-... it's a good idea most likely if your, your chi- your chief accountant, um, knows. Um, uh, but, you know, for a... for somebody who's running a company, what matters is can you... um, you know, can you create the best... um, the best company in its sector, you know. If you're gonna create an airline, is it going to be palpably better than, um, the rival airline? If you create a cruise company, is it going to be palpably better than the other cruise companies? If you're going to create a train company, is it going to be palpably better than what's gone before? And if it is, then at the end of the year, it's likely that more money that will come in than goes out. Um, and, um, uh, and then somebody, you know, somebody else can add up, add up the figures. Um, uh, so I think, you know, to, to be... to, to run a, to run a business, you know, yes, it helps to add up, it helps to subtract, it helps to multiply. Um, I don't even think you need to wo- worry about division. Um, that, that's it. So, um, uh, uh, you know, so if you can... if you can do those three things, um, uh, you, you can run a business. If you can't do those three things, I wouldn't worry too much. You find somebody else who can, and just... but just go out and create something that's going to make a positive difference to other people's lives.

    8. SB

      That student magazine became... um, kind of pivoted at the end into a mail order music business, which is a big part of the, the docuseries that we watched yesterday. Um, but then it became so many more things. And it's... The, the interesting thing is kind of how you swang from one of these business ideas to the next, because you'd seen a product or service that you thought could be done better, or there was an opportunity there. When I... You know, i- in the school of entrepreneurship, if that's like a metaphorical thing, we always talk about the importance of focus. Now, when I look at your story from 15 years old starting that magazine, to starting a mail order business around, I think, 20... uh, 22 years old when Virgin was kind of, um, conceptualized and launched. And then by the age of 33, you've got 50 different companies involving everything from film ma- making to, um, conditioner cleaning and, and generating more than $10 million in sales. I go, "This is not what they told me about-"

    9. RB

      (laughs)

    10. SB

      ... "the need for focus in the school of business." They said focus. You kind of break that law, it seems, of focus.

    11. RB

      So, um, uh, so I've, I've never really th- thought of myself as a business person. Um, uh, obviously, you know, on paper, I am an entrepreneur, um, or a business person. Um, uh, I've never really b- been interested in the bottom line, despite, uh, what the, uh, the, the, the doc- docuseries seems to portray. Um, uh, I've, I really have been interested in creating things I can be proud of. Um-And, uh, and a lot of those things come out of personal frustration. And I must've (laughs) been frustrated quite a lot-

    12. SB

      (laughs)

    13. RB

      ... when I was young because I've... and,

  8. 24:40 – 28:36

    You break the law of focus in business

    1. RB

      and, and ended up, you know, trying a lot of things. Um, uh, and, um, and I just found it great fun, um, investing in, you know, people I met, um, you know, uh, you know, somebody would come along and, uh, you know, the, the, the music business may have been, um, you know, struggling at one stage in my career with, with, with the advent of the iPod. And, um, so, you know, a couple of guys come along and say, y- um, you know, "We, we, you, you should do mobile phones. This is, you know, this would replace the music business." And, um, and they were great, great, great people. And, and, um, you know, so we thought, "Screw it. You know, let's do it. Let's, you know, go into the mobile phone business." And, and, and so if we, if we'd stayed still and only done, only focused on one business, um, uh, ma- maybe let's say the record business, um, uh, let's say record stores, um, which was one of our earlier, earlier things, um, uh, we most li- ... We wouldn't have a business today because the re- rec-, you know, megastores and Vir- and, and record stores no longer exist because, um, uh, the, the i- the iPod and free music really put them out of business. Um, and so, you know, so by actually going against the rule- rules of, you know, what you learn in business school, um, we, you know, we, we're still going strong, you know, 55 years later. Um, and, um, uh, and diversification actually saved us. I mean, like, you know, during COVID, um, uh, you know, Virgin Atlantic and, uh, very badly hit, uh, companies, uh, was, was saved by Virgin, uh, being, being able to sell, sell Virgin Galactic shares. So, um, so diversification h- h- um, is far more exciting. (laughs)

    2. SB

      Yeah.

    3. RB

      Um, you, you learn a hell of a lot more. And, um, it can be useful in times of crisis.

    4. SB

      It's clear that only a great delegator would, would be able to diversify without creating, um, spreading themselves too thinly per se.

    5. RB

      For sure.

    6. SB

      And I g- g- I guess that goes back to that skill of diversi- um, of delegation.

    7. RB

      Mm-hmm.

    8. SB

      Your headmaster said something to you that my best friend Joe Ridgway said to me when I was 18 years old after I dropped out of university. My best friend, Joe Ridgway, um, from Plymouth said to me... I remember I was stood in this, this curry shop on, uh-

    9. RB

      (laughs)

    10. SB

      ... on, in Rusholme. He said, "You're either going to be a millionaire or in prison." Now, when I read that this morning when I was doing research on, um-

    11. RB

      Mm-hmm.

    12. SB

      ... your headmaster, it stopped me and m- and my breakfast halfway through my-

    13. RB

      (laughs)

    14. SB

      ... sort of chew (laughs) and I thought, "Gosh."

    15. RB

      (laughs) Yeah.

    16. SB

      Now, I know why he said that to me, because he knew there was a certain level of desperation in me, and there was a certain craftiness, which was... could either take me (laughs) -

    17. RB

      Yeah.

    18. SB

      ... could either be used for good or evil. When you was, when you did the student magazine, that, that, um, prophecy appeared to come true one day when the police raided your, uh, magazine and arrested you. And I learned about this in the doc- docuseries last night. Your m- your mother then puts her house on the line to get you out of jail. And you choose to expand. You, you choose to expand your way out of the problem. Which for you meant, as it said in the docuseries, opening 30 record stores that year to be able to pay your mother back. Have you always chosen to expand your way out of problems?

    19. RB

      Um, yes.

    20. SB

      (laughs)

    21. RB

      I think the, I think the answer's yes. Um, I mean, I've... (clears throat) I spent one night in prison. I, um, in those days, you had to pay tax on, um, records if you shipped them to Europe. Sadly with Brexit, you're gonna have, people are gonna have to do that again. But, um, uh, and, um, uh, and I stumbled into the fact that if you (laughs) drove across the channel and drove back again, you had a piece of paper

  9. 28:36 – 33:25

    Expanding to get out of trouble

    1. RB

      which said you'd exported the records and therefore you, you didn't have to pay the tax. And, um, and, um, uh, but, uh, anyway. So we, we, we, we, we, we, we got a, a, a bad rap on the knuckles. I spent, uh, spent a night in prison and swore never, ever, ever, uh, um, to spend a second night (laughs) in prison in my life. Um, and, uh, and yes, we expanded fast in order to pay, pay off the fine. Um, uh, we just needed the turnover. Um, and it was, it was actually, um, uh, a- a actually a really, um, uh, a r- a, a wonderful booster to, to all the team at Virgin (laughs) to, to, um, uh... And, um, uh, and fortunately, you know, we managed within three years to pay, to pay it off. Um, but, um, I mean, I... uh, it, it... sometimes we're expanding, uh, uh, expanding just for the sheer pleasure of learning about something new. And, um, uh, and then maybe occasionally on like, like on that occasion, we're expanding to get ourselves out of prob- out of trouble. (papers rustling)

    2. SB

      Quick one. This episode is brought to you by Mercedes-Benz, who recently got in touch to support The Diary of a CEO. I'm becoming quite the fan of electric cars, and of course a huge fan of Mercedes-Benz. I have one of my own. The Mercedes-Benz luxury electric range known as Mercedes EQ is at the very forefront of this industry, which is what really stood out to me. If you're looking for a business car, the sustainability credentials, economic benefits, general convenience, and high levels of luxury, which everybody knows Mercedes-Benz for, in their all-electric cars are truly groundbreaking. In terms of features, their next-generation technology across the range is second to none. For example, there's intuitive MBUX technology with AI that learns your behavior and keeps you connected to the things that matter to you. Not to mention, all Mercedes EQ cars offer exemption from the ultra-low emission zone charge and London congestion charge. So if like me, you're really excited about all things electric cars, and if you haven't checked out the Mercedes EQ range, then search Mercedes-Benz fleet to see how they can take your business to the next level. (papers rustling) Quick word from one of our sponsors. You must be living under a rock if you've not heard about WeWork. But I think in the modern world, where people are working remotely, on the go, they're entrepreneurs building their businesses, WeWork has never been more important than it is right now. There are some incredible things WeWork have released to enable entrepreneurs like you, like me, to be able to work flexibly, comfortably, with the resources, wifi, and everything else, the infrastructure we need, in hundreds of locations around the world. And one of those things is called WeWork All Access, where if you have all access WeWork, you can work in hundreds of different locations as you travel around the world and as you move around the world and as you go to meetings around the world. WeWork, for entrepreneurs, in my opinion, is a total game-changer. And to encourage you to check WeWork out if you've never worked in one before, I'm offering 50% off a one-day booking if you go to we.co/ceo and use the promo code DIARY. Check it out. I love WeWork, and they've been great partners and supporters of this podcast. (paper rustles) The most, f- from my perspective, one of the most, um, terrifying decisions you ever made was to go into the airline industry. Warren Buffett's fairly famous for saying that he has once considered employing someone to sit in his office, and every time he feels like investing in an airline, to talk him out of it because it's such a absurd, terrifying business to get into. You were running a very successful record label and record store, um, business by then. You had many, many companies, many investments, and you decided to take this huge bet to start an airline. Now, there's a lot said about why. Could you tell me in your own words why?

    3. RB

      Um, it- it- it really was out of frustration of, um, flying on other people's airlines, having- having bad experiences, um, and feeling that, um, we could, uh, we could do it better. We could make it ... It could be more fun. I mean, in- in- in those days, uh, you know, if you flew on, say, British Airways, it was a monopoly. Um, uh, they ... You know, you were, you- you maybe got a lump of chicken dumped in your lap. Um, there was no entertainment. Um, the cabin crew certainly didn't enjoy working for the company. And, um, and you really felt like you were just being herded from A to B in- in a, in a cattle truck. Um, and, um, uh, and so, uh, I flew, I was flying all over the world, um, to, um, uh, to, uh, to visit our record companies, 'cause we had record companies in most countries around the world, and- and just felt, you know, that- that ... we could, we could do it better.

  10. 33:25 – 37:39

    Why did you start an airline?

    1. RB

      Um, uh, somebody came along to us with the idea of a business airline, um, only. I didn't think that would be very exciting to run. Um, and, um, uh, but I thought a- a really good quality airline for everybody, including business people, um, you know, would be a- a- a- a something special to run. And, um, uh, and so ended up ring- ringing up Boeing and, um, and having a wonderful discussion with a wonderful guy called R.J. Wilson, and then ending up, um, being able to, uh, lease a secondhand 747 from him. Um, and, um, and because, you know, uh, uh, I do like to, you know, to protect the downside, which is obviously important in business, um, I d- did a deal with him whereby I could hand the plane back at the end of 12 months if, uh, you know, if my instinct was not right. Um, and, um, but fortunately, at the end of 12 months, people loved flying on Virgin Atlantic and we ended up, you know, getting a second and a third plane from Boeing. And, um, and that was, yeah, 38 years ago. And, um, and, you know, Virgin Atlantic has, um ... Uh, you know, it's- it's like a, uh, r- roughly the same age as my daughter. Um, uh, you know, sh- um, she's been, uh, the- the airline's been bullied, um, by British Airways. I mean, famously through the dirty tricks campaign. Um, uh, it was a really tough time. Um, we took BA to court and we won the biggest libel damages in history. Um, uh, um, she's had, she's had to go through the, like, think crashes, like the, um, uh, 9- 9- 9/11 disaster, um, the 2008 disaster, um, there's the COVID disaster (laughs) . Um, and, uh, and I'm sure that we've, it, you know, that- that it's cost us more money than, um, than we've ever made from it. Um, uh, but it's been the flagship of, you know, for Virgin. Um, it's enabled us to launch other companies in different countries around the world on the back of the- the strong brand and the strong reputation it's had. Um, and, uh, she's- she's a- a daughter that I will zealously protect and- and, um, uh, as long as I can.

    2. SB

      When you look back at why that business survived, considering the fierce competition, considering what British Airways did and were ultimately found guilty of in court with their dirty tricks campaigns. The bit that really st- stuck out to me yesterday was hearing that they had a staff member hack into your customer database, um, to- to kind of see, spy on what you were doing. That went to court, you won the battle, um, and that acted as a, a real boost, I think, for Virgin, because it kind of staged you as this sort of David versus Goliath, um, situation where you were the underdog. But as you look back on that journey, um, many people have fallen in that industry. It's a graveyard, as you say in the documentary. Why did Virgin win? What was it? Was it brand? Was it customer experience? Was it just grit?

    3. RB

      I thi- I think that, um, uh...I think a lot comes back to staff. I mean, um, the- the- we- we- we've had- always had a great, um, team of people working at Virgin that they're really proud of the company. Um, uh, um, they, um, uh, we've done things- you know, we've always been ahead of th- ahead of the pack in- in, um, new innovations. So, um, you know, seat-back videos, for instance. We were the first airline to introduce seat-back videos in the world. Um, uh, the, um, uh, you know, sleeper seats for business class passengers. Um, uh, um, you know, s- stand-up bars and, um, and- and lounges and so on. Um, you know, collect- collecting money at the door, you know, f- um, for charity that, um, Virgin was the first to do that. And now pretty well every airline and most airports are doing it as well. Loose change.

  11. 37:39 – 43:54

    Why did virgin win?

    1. RB

      Um, so I think, um, uh, you know, ev- every little detail, I think, we- we- um, the team have got right at- at Virgin. Um, and, um, uh, and if you get the little details right, uh, that, you know, um, then collectively, um, uh, y- it makes for an exceptional company over an average company. And, um, you know, if I'm on a Virgin plane, I'll- I'll- or any Virgin company, I'll have my notebook. I'll take notes, I'll listen to it- listen to the staff, listen to the customers. Um, you know, um, and then act on it when I get to the far end. And, um, uh, and- and then be in tou- back in touch with the people who, you know, gave me the ideas to thank them and tell them what we've done. And- and- and I think a good- a good leader has to be a good listener. Um, and if you're- if you're, um, uh, uh ... And that's, I think, one of the most important attributes of a good leader.

    2. SB

      I grabbed my phone halfway through watching the docuseries yesterday when you mentioned the seat-back videos because in the same breath you mentioned how every accountant would tell you, um, not to do many of the things that you've chosen to do, but also the banks wouldn't even lend you the money t- to do the seat-back videos. They'd give you the money t- like $2 billion to do the planes, but they wouldn't give you the $10 million to do the seat-back videos. You've mentioned instinct as well a few times. As a CEO over the years, I've had this battle between, like, instinct and the CFO. You seem to tend to- I think the quote you said was, um, you tend not to consult finance people and accounts people when you- when you have these ideas. How have you found that battle between the two, between your instinct and your vision and the money people going, "This won't work. This doesn't make sense"?

    3. RB

      I suspect that you're an e- you're the entrepreneur and- and they're the CFO because you're the entrepreneur and they're the CFO. So, I think you just got to believe in your- g- your- your- your instinct and, um, and, um, uh, and- and go with it. And if you create something, you know, I mean, we're just opening a new hotel in, uh, New York. Um, you know, if it's the best hotel in New York, even if it's gone over budget in- in the building of it, which it- which it will have done, um, uh, the- the best always succeeds. Um, uh, you know, we- we- we (laughs) famously during COVID, uh, launched a new cruise line, Virgin Voyages. Um, uh, you know, it is (laughs) y- so much better than any (laughs) other cruise line out there. Um, you know, we've had two years where we've had to moth- mothball the ships. Um, but, you know, we've stuck with it because we know that the c- the quality is such that, um, people will seek it out. And it- and, uh, and the feedback's been, you know, s- spectacular. I mean, it's Virgin at- Virgin at its absolute best. Um, I'm actually heading there this afternoon. Um, you know, it's fascinating. Each ship has 78 different nationalities working on it, um, you know, 1,200 people. Um, and they're just the best. And, um, and it's adults only, and it's a lot of fun. And, um, uh ... But th- you know, there were moments during COVID that we did think, you know, we- we'd definitely chosen (laughs) the wrong business to launch.

    4. SB

      Virgin at its absolute best. What does that mean? What is Virgin at its best?

    5. RB

      Virgin at its best is when you launch a new company and you know that because, you know, people have experienced previous Virgin companies, um, that they will give it a try. You don't really have to even advertise. Um, they- they- they know that when they went on a Virgin train, uh, wh- when we ran the network, that it was, you know, really good quality. When they went on a Virgin plane, it was good quality. When they went into Virgin Health Club, it was good quality, um, and so on. Um, and, um, so, you know, that- that gives us a big advantage with s- with a brand that- that, uh, people have tried, they've loved. Um, and so when we launch something new like a cruise line, they- they will give it a go. And- and we make sure that we don't let them down. Um, and- and- and then, you know, having them try the cruise line if we decide to do a new venture, um, you know, we c- we c- we c- ... It's that much easier for us to launch it off- off the back of the cruise line.

    6. SB

      Y- y- you are so synonymous with the- the Virgin. I don't think I've ... I know a person who is as synonymous with their brand as an individual. So when you think of Virgin, you think of Richard Branson. You think of Richard Branson, you think Virgin. Um, and in 1985, you start doing some pretty extreme adventures around the world, which become- kind of pay into the brand and give- give the brand extra meaning. Things like crossing- crossing the Atlantic by boat, which sunk. Uh, it seems like a lot of the, uh, the trips you took either collapsed (laughs) like fell out the sky into the- into the- the sea or the boat sank. Um, you set so many records th- through that period. Um, s- so, you know, I was reading about you going a h- two- 250 miles per hour in a hot air balloon.... across the, the Pacific from Japan to the Arctic in Canada, again breaking, um, existing records at the time. This became a real hallmark of, like, the, the Richard Branson and Virgin brand, these extreme adventures. Was that intentional? When you did that first one, did you... Was, was it because of a marketing thing or was it because of the fun of doing it for yourself?

    7. RB

      It started out, uh, as a, a mixture of the two, but more, uh, we had one plane, um, and somebody said, y- you know, "Why, why don't we try to bring the Blue Riband back to Britain for the fastest boat across the Atlantic?" Um, and, you know, we c- we can, we can build this boat. Um, and, um, uh, but it ended up being, um, much more than just a marketing adventure. It became, it became a real adventure. I mean, it was, you know, tremendously exciting. And, um, I was in, in my very early 30s and, and, um,

  12. 43:54 – 47:12

    Being synonymous with your brand

    1. RB

      uh, and, you know, it was tough, but it was, it was great fun. Um, there were, you know, lots of, um, moments of drama, uh, which there always are when you're trying something that's never really been tried before, um, including, as you pointed out (laughs) we sank, we sank before we got the whole way across. Um, uh, but, um, uh, but anyway, it makes for (laughs) a good documentary series.

    2. SB

      It does.

    3. RB

      Um, and it makes for a good book. And it... And, and, um, and, you know, and it did put Virgin on the map. It made Virgin a much more sexy brand, uh, um, a more adventurous brand than, say, British Airways, our rival, um, uh, and, and other... and other... and other brands. Um, uh, I mean, Virgin Atlantic cheekily took a full-page ad when we s- when we w- when we sank in the Atlantic. The, the only thing that was sticking out of the Atlantic, of the boat, was, um, the, the brand Virgin. And, um, and the ad just had the picture of the boat sticking out of the water. And, and they had said, "Next time, Richard, take the plane." (laughs)

    4. SB

      (laughs)

    5. RB

      And, (laughs) and, (laughs) and, of, (laughs) of course, there would've... there, there were people who said, you know, "What have you seen? What if you end up in the, in the Atlantic? You're... you... you know, no one's gonna want to fly on an airline where..." Um, but, of course, it is quite the reverse. It's... it... it... you know, people, uh... you know, uh... it, it helped put... it helped put a sm- tiny, little airline on the map, um, uh, mor- more effectively than anything else we could do, and much more cheaply.

    6. SB

      You mentioned that ad from, um, from your competitor there. In the moment, competition is the archenemy, you know, causing you a ton of nuisance. But as you look back on the competition you've had throughout the different industries you've been in, has the competition actually made you stronger and better at what you've done?

    7. RB

      Yes. And I think the reverse is also true, um, that, that, uh, you know, the... these big public companies, or big p- um, government-run companies, like British Airways, have been made the better, um, by having, um, Virgin Atlantic innovating and, you know, the- them having to c- you know, catch us up, uh, you know, o- over the years. And I think British Airways is a better company today than it was, um, you know, uh, 38 years ago when we started. So, competition's good for all of us, um, big, big and small. And, um, and the only role that governments need to play is intervening when there's unfair competition. Um, and that's one of the m- most important roles a government can play, um, is, um, uh, uh, is making sure that they set laws that encourage competition and don't stifle competition. Um, and, um, uh... And, you know, we've had, uh... yeah. Anyway, there, there've been books written about, um, uh, ab- about companies that have tried to sti- stifle Virgin in the past. But, um, somehow we c- somehow we came through.

    8. SB

      There's this term now called personal branding, which has become very popular, p- predominantly because of social media and everybody having a channel. And they can build followers,

  13. 47:12 – 49:28

    Using competition to build a better brand

    1. SB

      and they can try and tell the world who their company is using social media. But you were kind of the first CEO personal brand to many people, because, um, everything you did added value to the brand. And it wasn't just what Virgin said. I think... When I look at your story, it teaches me that the brand is what w- what the people do and what the founder does becomes the brand, more so than ever. Um, and I think that's often what we lose sight of. And, s- some of the best band- brands in the world, like the Red Bulls of the world, have figured out that the things you do say much more about the brand than what you say.

    2. RB

      Yeah.

    3. SB

      And y- you are, like, the perfect example of that. In the early '90s, you got in a bit of a, a struggle because of the, the broader economy, and you ended up selling your record business. From all accounts, and from speaking to some of your current team, they said that this was a very difficult moment for you, that it was crushing, I think the quote that I... that I was told. Um, is that accurate? And why was it... why was it crushing?

    4. RB

      Oh, look. I think, uh... Um, if, if you think of your... if you think of the, um, uh, the things that you create, like children, (laughs) wh- which, um, uh... which I, I do, and... and... and I think of it like that because it is just a bunch of people. Um, and I mean, you know, y- your business is yourself and a... and a group, s- a group of people. Um, if you sell it, y- it's like selling... selling... You know, if you sell a company, it's like selling a group of children. And, and that's, um, uh, that's tough all around. Um, I needed to, uh... I needed a war chest, um, to combat British Airways and... and... and... and the dirty tricks that they were, um, uh... uh, they'd... they'd launched at Virgin. And-Um, and, you know, so, uh, you know, the, the war chest, um, that I, that I thought, you know, I could best tap into was Virgin Records. Um, the good thing was that, you know, the, the staff at Virgin Records, you know, still had a, had a job. But, um, working for another company. And the staff at Virgin Atlantic were safe because we had the, the financial clout to, um, to deal, to deal with our competitor. Um, so there are... there,

  14. 49:28 – 51:21

    Selling your record business

    1. RB

      you know, there are obviously times in life where you have to make tough decisions like that. And, um, uh, and, uh, and, yeah. But it... and, and move, and move on.

    2. SB

      Do you have any regrets about, about how that happened? About that phase?

    3. RB

      Um, I have... I, I, I always think that if, if anybody asked me if I ever have any regrets about anything, it, it would be... I would be a very sad person to (laughs) answer, answer positively. Because, you know, I've, I've had the most extraordinary life. Um, it's been full of, you know, interesting twists and turns. Um, uh, and I honestly really d-... you know, can't think of anything I regret, you know, in the past. Um, they, um... and I think I would... I, I really do think I'd be a sad person if I, if I had regrets. I mean, I just... it's just been, um, rich with r- rich with, um, uh, you know, adventure and, uh, and, um, and people. And, and, um, and, and I d-... I'm not somebody who looks back, uh, by and large. I mean, obviously, an interview like this, I will.

    4. SB

      (laughs)

    5. RB

      But, um, uh, and I suppose I've reached an age where, you know, it's important to write books, and it's important to do documentaries. And, you know, um, because it's important not to waste your life, and, and, and, and it's important to share what you've learned.

    6. SB

      How did you feel yesterday watching the, um, docuseries on your life? I, I was s-... just behind you, so I'd watch... I'd look at the screen, and then I'd look at your reaction. (laughs)

    7. RB

      (laughs)

    8. SB

      And I'd see you laughing sometimes. And-

    9. RB

      Um, I was emotionally drained, to be honest. Um, I, I'm in... uh, after... the afterparty, um, I just could not really get my wo-... my words out for the first half an hour. Um, uh, it... you know, I found it quite... you know, fairly exhausting. Um, I mean, they've... i- it's incredible, uh, a really good documentary maker, and that... and Chris

  15. 51:21 – 54:01

    Looking back on your life

    1. RB

      Smith is one of the best in the world. I mean, you know, p- prides himself on, on his independence, which I respect completely. And, and so we, you know, we didn't have input into it. Um, you know, obviously, therefore, not everything one's going to agree with, and, and not everything is... you know, in, in my brain would be exactly as, as it was. But nine-... you know, 95%, 96% was, was, w- w- was, was as I see it. And... but, but, but just what w-... is, is incredible is the archive footage they managed to find, um, you know, considering we'd had my, my main house burnt down and my, my main house (laughs) blown down in a hurricane, um, twice. Um, uh, the fact that anything survived to be able to make such a, uh, you know, such a really full, quite... r- r- you know, really quite exciting, I think, (sniffs) um, docu-... you know, documentary series was, um... uh, you know, I have to take my hat off to them.

    2. SB

      And then in the, uh... as I watched the, the last episode of the docuseries last night, I saw you once again, in typical Richard Branson style, set yourself a new frontier, which was space. As if you... you know, as if all of that you'd done before wasn't enough, you d-... you decided to aim for the stars. Why?

    3. RB

      (laughs) Um, so I remember, um, many, many, many years ago, um, when President Gorbachev was, um, uh, leader of Russia, and he was trying to bring perestroika, um, perestroika, uh, to, um, uh, the West, and trying to r- b-... um, p- p- put out peace signs, um, he invited me to come to Russia to be the first person to go up in a Russian, um, spaceship. Um, but it would have meant, uh, a big check, um, you know, 60 million. It would have meant, um, a year, um, learning Russian and being in Russia, and I just didn't have the time at that... uh, uh, and already the, the spare money to do something like that. But it, it did just get me thinking, um, you know, that's an inordinate amount of money to charge for somebody to go to space. You know, for that kind of money, we, we... why, why couldn't they just build... start building a spaceship? Um, and, um, and so we registered Virgin Galactic Airways, and, um... and I set up... w- went around the world trying to see if we could find somebody to build us a spaceship. And,

  16. 54:01 – 56:54

    Why did you want to go to space

    1. RB

      um, and then just found this genius, Burt Rutan. You know, to me, um, you know, I've, I've, I've y-... always dreamt of going to space one day. Um, I think, uh, 50% of the people listening to this program will have... will, will have d-... will have dreamt or will dream of going to space. 50% will think we... you know, "Why, why on Earth would you (laughs) want to do that?" Um, but, uh, you know, it's... it was the most extraordinary day of my life, um, the... my, my trip to space. Um, uh, and, uh, and, you know, looking back at this beautiful, beautiful Earth that we live on, it was, um, uh, from space, whilst (laughs) whilst floating, uh, um, at the to... you know, float-... wi- whi-... whilst floating with a, a lovely group of people, um, uh, just an extraordinary, um, experience. And, um, uh, and to be honest, to... yeah, to pinch, pinch, pinch oneself moment to be doing it in a spaceship that we... that we built. And, um, um, and, um-... uh, (laughs) and, uh, yeah. It's- so it- it was a dream come true.

    2. SB

      In that documentary, we're also reminded of the, the cost of all of these endeavors at a moment when there's a shot of you taking a phone call at your house, learning that in the lead up to, um, Virgin Galactic's going to space for the first time, an astronaut had died in one of the tests. It's a very emotional scene, but it, it is a reminder of, of, um, the cost of these great endeavors to humanity. That day, when you received that phone call and then you, you rushed yourself to the, to the, to the site, what's on your mind?

    3. RB

      So, it's happened to me twice in my life. Um, uh, you know, I was once in a cinema in, um, uh, in Europe, uh, with my kids and I... my phone just kept, uh, kept vibrating. And, and, and I ignored it and ignored it, and then on the sort of third or fourth time, I, I decided to walk out of the cinema and check it. Um, and one of our trains had come off, um, the track and, um, uh... And, you know, straight away I knew that, you know, um, I just had to get to the scene of the accident. Um, and, you know, there were no flights that night, so we had to, had to drive through the, through the night. Um, and then, yeah. And, um, uh, and then dr- anyway, we got, got there, um, at, at, at early, early in the morning the next day. One, uh, lady had died, and, uh, you know, and I, um, went, went to the morgue to meet the relatives and, um, you know, we, we had a hug,

  17. 56:54 – 1:01:08

    The cost of all these endeavours

    1. RB

      hug. And, um, uh, and, um, I mean, fortunately it turned out it wasn't actually a Virgin's fault, but, um, you know, but we- you're still obviously responsible for, um, the fact that it was on a Virgin train. Um, and, um, and, uh, and then you've got to, as, as owner, um, you know, t- confront, talk to the press and, and, um, and... But it, it, it... I think the fact that you make, uh, the fact that you make an effort and get, get there quickly, uh, is very important. And, and the same when, when, when we, uh, lost a test spaceship, um, uh, I knew straight away based on my previous experience with the train that I- I needed to be there as fast as possible.

    2. SB

      Is there a conversation about discontinuing Virgin Galactic at that moment after losing that life?

    3. RB

      Yeah, there was. I mean, uh, you know, we... I sat down with George L- Whiteside and just said, you know, "I- is it..." You know, asked ourselves questions. "Is it worth it?" You know, "Is it worth," um, t- you know, "Is it worth continuing?" What- what- what- what would happen if we had a second accident? Um, uh, you know, we would never, never, never be forgiven. I mean, it would, you know, it would, uh, um, our reputations would be destroyed. Um, um, uh, um, but then we, then we spoke with all the, all the engineers and, um, we spoke with many of the people who'd signed up to go to space and, and we spoke with the family, and, um, of, of, um, uh, o- of the pilot who'd- w- we'd lost. And with one, with one voice, they said, you know, "You've just got to, you've got to continue." Um, uh, and, um, uh, and we did. And, and, uh, we're still, you know, we're still (coughs) um, you know, we're still at the early stage of space travel. Uh, there's still risks. I mean, it's- it- uh, uh, where we think that, um, you know, we don't... Um, you know, we think that we're through all the big risks. Um, uh, you know, we've- we've got a... We can automatically switch off a, um, uh, an engine if, uh, you know, if- if anything's wro- goes wrong with the rocket motor. Just... And, and, and we've got pa- we've got astronauts actually flying, flying our craft. Um, but it is the, it is, it is the early stages. And, um, but, um, but I think everybo- everybody involved are doing it with their eyes open.

    4. SB

      One of the most, um, beautiful, heart-wrenching scenes from the docuseries is in 2021 when you are months away from your first space flight on your, on your own spaceship, spacecraft, space plane, whatever the-

    5. RB

      (laughs)

    6. SB

      ... whatever the terminology is. Um, you've named it after your mother. You've named the mothership after Eve. And then tragically, um, she passes away from COVID before she has the chance to embark on that space journey with you, which she was planning to do. That phase of your life when you lose your mother, when you lose Eve, what impact does that have on you and your mission?

    7. RB

      Um, it, it... I mean, first of all, she'd lived a, a, uh, a long life and an extraordinary life. And, and so it was... Um, uh, yeah. Uh, I- I mean, uh, b- b- yeah, I was very, very fortunate and our family were very fortunate to have had her around so long. Um, and then, uh, and the absolute last thing that she would have wanted was for, for, um, for the mission or any missions to be held up, um, as a result of her death. I mean, you know, she, she will... Uh, you know, if there's a s- star up there, um, she'll be on it. And, and, um, I'm sure that she was th- there, um, uh, th- there in spirit when, um, when, when, when I went to space. And she definitely would have been smiling, smiling down at, down, down at us with, with my dad Ted. Um, and, um, uh, so, uh, yeah. And so, I think when, when, when we,

  18. 1:01:08 – 1:04:16

    The passing of your mother eve

    1. RB

      when we lose loved ones, we- w- it's, you know, we- w- you- you live on...... you live on through your parents and your, and, um, your children live on through you, and, and your grandchildren live on through your t- your children. And, uh, and, you know, that's the sort of wonder, the wonders of life.

    2. SB

      And when you came down from that space flight, um, which is detailed in your, your second memoir, in the, the sort of updated version which has just been updated, you wrote a letter to your mum after coming down from space. You said, "Dear Mum, you always told me to reach for the stars while I took my own winding road, but I always knew when to follow your lead. You always pushed us to our limits. You were always a dreamer. You urged me to strive for every opportunity I saw. You told me to chase my wildest fantasies, to live life to the full. How you lived, how you loved, and how you are missed."

    3. RB

      Yeah. I mean, she, um, you know, I think, uh, uh, yeah, hopefully, um, yeah, when, when people read the book, they'll think about their own, their own mums and dads, and, and, and, and you know, how, how, how lucky, lucky we are to have mums and dads who sacrifice so much for us. And, um, and as, as we, as we, as we grow up, and then obviously later on in life, um, one can, well, you c- one can give, you know, give, give back in, in, um, looking after them as they get a little bit older.

    4. SB

      The docuseries was a bit of a punch in the face from the start because th- because of that opening scene about your family, where you're sat there ahead of your journey to space trying to say some words to Holly, Sam, and Joan, your wonderful wife and your kids, just in case you never make it back from space. This is something that you've done time and time again before you embarked on these journeys. Um, really, really difficult to watch. Really difficult to watch, um, and took me by, by surprise because it was so early on in the film. Why, why was, why is it so hard to, to get those words out? Otherwise, you seem like such a composed individual, but when it came to those words, it seemed like, y- you know, multiple takes-

    5. RB

      Mm-hmm.

    6. SB

      ... you got up, you walked away, you came back, got up, walked away, and came back.

    7. RB

      So, um, so first of all, I, I do, uh, um, I cry in happy films, I cry in sad films. My kids bring a box of tissues when we, when we go to the cinema, or used to. Um, and, uh, so that (laughs) that, that, that, I'm, I'm, I, so I am ... Um, uh, you know, even, even now just talking to you, I can feel tears in my eyes. So, um, so, um, uh, so it, it's, it's not surprising for me (laughs) to suddenly, uh, not, not be able to get my, get through my sentence sometimes. Um, but obviously, look, if you're, if you're, uh, if you're reading, um, if you're, if you're, if you're speaking about, as if you, as if you've died to, um, you know, to, to your kids and your grandkids, um, yeah, lots of emotions

  19. 1:04:16 – 1:09:25

    Saying parting words to your family

    1. RB

      go through your head at the time of saying, of speaking. I, I suspect even the emotions of, "My God, should I be, (laughs) should ... " You know, is, is it, is it worth it? And a lot, a lot of th- the, this documentary series is asking the question, "Is it selfish? Is it worth it?" Is it, uh, is it, is it, is it, is it something? (laughs) Um, uh, is it, is it something that, um, one should be doing? Um, I remember, um, I was in, I was just taking off on, um, to go across the Pacific in a hot air balloon and walking into this truck. And, um, Joan Thirkettle qu- from ITN was just finishing editing my obituary, um, in case I didn't come back. And she said, you know, "Richard, do, do you want to sit and watch the obituary?" And, and I said, "Well, wh- why not?" And, um, and, you know, I started to watch the obituary, and again had a couple of (laughs) tears in my eyes at the end of it. But, um, but, um, you know, but I do think that in life, well, you know, one advantage of doing these adventures is actually you do confront the ultimate inevitability of, of, um, you know, that you're not gonna be here forever. And so you do think about, uh, you know, "Have I left everything in order?" Um, you know, "What am I gonna s- say to my children? What am I gonna say to my grandchildren?" And a lot of people don't have that opportunity, 'cause they, they, they die suddenly. So, um, you know, it's, uh, so I have written (laughs) quite a few letters over the years, uh, in thinking that I just may not come back from this adventure or that adventure.

    2. SB

      The documentary also shone a light on Joan, who has clearly been this huge rock in your life over the years. She's a strong, tenacious, um, honest, very, uh, very to the point, wonderful woman. What does she mean to you, and what has she meant to you over the last 40, 50 years?

    3. RB

      Oof. Um, well, I was lucky enough to meet her 45 years ago in a recording studio, um, uh, called The Manor. Uh, f- walked into the kitchen and just looked across the room, and she was the most, uh, gorgeous creature I'd ever seen (laughs) in my life. And it was l- in, instantaneous love from me to her, but, and, and, uh, uh, it, uh, it was, took me a while the other way around. But she's just a, a fantastic, down-to-earth Glaswegian. Um, doesn't suffer fools gladly. Um, complete opposite to me. Um, you know, doesn't play tennis, doesn't, uh, run, doesn't, uh, ski, doesn't climb mountains. Um, you know, doesn't go adventuring. But, you know, she's (clears throat) the most fantastic mother for Holly and Sam and the grandkids. Um, and, um, uh, and she knows what matters in life, y- um, so, you know, I mean, the, the, uh, in, in the end, I suppose what matters is, uh...You know, the love you can give to your children, um, uh, the food on the table, um, uh, um, yeah. But, all, uh, above everything, just unreserved love, um, to, to all, everybody around her. And, and, and, um, uh, and everything else is, um, uh, is sort of the icing on the cake.

    4. SB

      You're a man synonymous with living a life worth living. One of the quotes from the film was about, you know, not living a life, um, that is full of risk is not living at all, words to that effect. If I was Sam or Holly, your kids, and I asked you, I said, "Dad, what's, um, what is a, a life worth living?" What, what would you say to me?

    5. RB

      I think just to, for, to, first of all fulfill their own, fulfill their own dreams. I mean, I mean, not, not to have their father or mother push them into things they don't want to do. So, um, you know, I was lucky when my, my, my daughter wanted to be a doctor and she, you know, she did, she did the medic, she became a doctor. Um, she now helps us with our foundation. Um, my son, um, wanted to make films and, and, um, uh, and he's a musician basically, which is his main love, and he, and he, he does a little bit of both of those things. Um, they're both fantastic parents and they find the time, uh, for their grandkids. Um, so I think just to, um, you know, to, to follow, to follow whatever dream it is that you have as best you can. Um, and, um, uh, and, yeah. And, uh, you know, we've been lucky that our, our kids have, kids have, um, I think found their, found their path in life.

    6. SB

      We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the les- last guest asks a question for the next guest, not knowing who they are asking it for.

    7. RB

      (laughs)

    8. SB

      Um, the question that has been left for you-

    9. RB

      (laughs)

    10. SB

      ... is, where

  20. 1:09:25 – 1:10:51

    What is a life worth living?

    1. SB

      were you when you, when you felt most vulnerable and why?

    2. RB

      I think I felt most vulnerable, um, relatively recently, um, during the, uh, about six weeks into COVID, um, when, uh, everything, everything that we'd built up, uh, looked like it was crashing down. Um, uh, and, uh, and interestingly when, uh, the sort of British press, rather than being supportive, really, really turned on us. Um, uh, and, uh, and but fortunately, you know, my, my kids and grandkids and everybody arrived, um, o- um, at, at around about that same time. And, um, and the team just got down and worked really hard day and night to make sure we kept as many jobs, um, safe as, as possible. And, um, uh, and, uh, and I think pretty well every Virgin, uh, company got through it and pretty well every v- every employee's jobs got protected. Um, but, uh, but that was the, that was maybe the toughest time in, um, toughest time in my life for, you know, su- suddenly it just looked like one for your c- your reputation and everything else was going out of the window. It was, uh, but

  21. 1:10:51 – 1:16:14

    The last guests question

    1. RB

      COVID was tough for so many people. And, um, and, but, um, yeah, but, but, um, we've (laughs) , we felt it too.

    2. SB

      Holly and several members of your team reference that as being, um, your toughest moment. But the word tough is just a word. If I zoomed in and I, if I was there, what would I have, and I was you, what would I have seen and what would I have felt? When you say the word tough, you-

    3. RB

      Well, I think, I, I've, I think that, um, I, I've never understood, uh, depression. Um, uh, and I, and, and I think I understood a slight, you know, th- where, where people get depression from after that exper- experience. Um, and it's good, you know, it's good to under- you know, it's good to have gone through it myself a bit. I mean, I didn't last too long, um, uh, 'cause I've, you know, brought, br- brought up by, you know, parents who'd, you know, been through the Second World War, and you couldn't waste your time, you know, getting depressed. You know, there were much far worse things than being depressed. Um, but anyway, it h- it, it taug- it taught me to understand it, which I think will hopefully make me better understand other people's depression in the years to come.

    4. SB

      Wh- what were the symptoms of that?

    5. RB

      Ah, it... What were the symptoms of it? It's very difficult to, to pinpoint the symptoms. But, you know, look, you just, (laughs) you just feel very sorry for yourself for a day or two and then you just have to snap out of it and, and, and get, you know... My mum, my mum would've, if she'd been alive, um, wh- well, well, she was, but I mean, t- if I talked to her about it, she would've told me to pull myself together and just, and, and, and, um, get back to work. And, uh, and, um, and, uh, I think within two or three days, you know, her, her, her words would've been ringing in my head and, and I would've c- um, o- overcome it. And I did overcome it. But it just, you know, you just, a little, a taste of it anyway.

    6. SB

      Richard, Sir Richard Branson, thank you so much for your time. Um, I, you, to me, you've, when I started this podcast, you were the name. You were the name that if one day I could speak to on this podcast, I think we might as well pack it up and finish. Because to me, a- as a entrepreneur my whole life, you've always been the North Star of entrepreneurs. You've represented and embodied what it is to be a entrepreneur that's striving forward to create better, uh, in everything you do.I had the pleasure of researching your story again, a- now at 30 years old, and it's been a tremendous source of inspiration for me. Um, to meet you today, to get to come and watch your docuseries is one of the highlights of my entire entrepreneurial career and life and definitely this podcast. So, thank you so much for that, because I'm, I'm not sure you'll ever really appreciate how much of an impact you have on people like me. Um, so I want to make sure that I... While I have you here, I have a chance to tell you and to thank you for that. 'Cause you've definitely changed my life, and, um, I know I'm not the only person. Um, so thank you. Your book is amazing. The docuseries was so captivating, I stayed up till about 3:00 AM last night making sure I watched all of it, and then watched it aga- uh, the last episode again this morning, and I implore everybody to go and check it out, uh, now on HBO. Um, but yeah, most important thing is I just wanted to say thank you.

    7. NA

      Well, th- and I thank you back. And, and, um, yeah, many, many congratulations on all y- all you've achieved and all, all, um, you being a young bastard-

    8. SB

      (laughs)

    9. NA

      ... uh, (laughs) all, all you will achieve in the years to come.

    10. SB

      Thank you, Richard. (instrumental music plays) Quick one from our longest-standing sponsor, Huel. I, I can't tell you over the last... I'd say over the last... Really, it's been about two and a half years. It was really, um, post-pandemic. How much my health has become such a huge priority in my life. And I have this laser, laser focused on what I'm putting into my body. It's funny, because as you get older, you can start to feel the things you're putting into your body more and more and more. Um, and if I, if I put something into my body, especially things like gluten, if I put those things in my body, I feel them tr- tremendously the next day, my energy levels, my sleep, and everything in between. Huel has been probably the most impo- important partner in my health journey, because I've been in the boardrooms. I've been to their offices tens and tens and tens and tens of times. I've seen how they make their decisions on nutrition, and I trust it. Most of my team that are in this room with me consume it and get the benefits of it too. So, if you haven't already tried Huel, do so. (paper rusts) Intel are now one of our sponsors on this podcast, and I'm here to tell you about their vPro platform. Security and data protection are totally non-negotiable when it comes to the technology I use for my businesses. I'm constantly thinking about where we can upgrade our systems to protect against potential threats. So this is where Intel vPro has become our go-to. Intel vPro is built for businesses. It has hardware-based, multi-layer platform security features protecting from cyberattacks, threat detection, and also recovery systems, all in one platform. In an ever-challenging cyber landscape, if I can put measures in place that I believe will save me time and money, then I absolutely will. So head over to intel.co.uk/vpro to find out how it can work for your business. (instrumental music plays)

Episode duration: 1:16:24

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