The Diary of a CEORichard Hammond: The Untold Story Of My 320mph Crash & My 1 Minute Memory! | E221
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,056 words- 0:00 – 2:46
Intro
- RHRichard Hammond
It was answering a question that I'd always wondered: when am I gonna die? (tires screeching) Oh, crap! It was like, "Oh, it's now."
- SBSteven Bartlett
(dramatic music) Would you please welcome Richard Hammond! BBC Top Gear presenter.
- RHRichard Hammond
Grand Tour presenter.
- SBSteven Bartlett
One of the biggest TV shows in history. And it's fair to say that he- Has the best job- In the world.
- RHRichard Hammond
(laughs) Be funny, quicker, angrier. Every compensatory measure that anybody who's diminutive in height has ever made, I've done. It's one of the reasons I'm a broadcaster now, for sure.
- SBSteven Bartlett
There's a cost to that, though?
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What's the cost?
- RHRichard Hammond
(sighs) .
- SBSteven Bartlett
Was there a moment in the journey of Top Gear where you thought to yourself, "This is big"?
- RHRichard Hammond
We went out in front of 60,000 people, and just before we went out, I said, "Lads, have three guys with less talent ever gone out in front of more people?" (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Is there any guilt associated with your success?
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah, there is. I wanna prove I'm not a lucky idiot, so I took some risky decisions.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Have you ever pondered that you might-
- RHRichard Hammond
Might have overdone it? (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- RHRichard Hammond
(cars crashing) Oh, crap! Richard Hammond has been seriously injured in a car crash. They had called Mindy in. They said, "I think we're losing him." I had very bad post-traumatic amnesia. I've, like, a one-minute memory.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Wow.
- RHRichard Hammond
I have to consciously write memories down and work hard to recall them.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you worry about that?
- RHRichard Hammond
I do. The damage was done. Should probably have a look, find out...
- SBSteven Bartlett
Are you scared to find out?
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I just wanna start this episode with a message of thanks. A thank you to everybody that tunes in to listen to this podcast. By doing so, you've enabled me to live out my dream, but also for many members of our team to live out their dreams too. It's one of the greatest privileges I could never have dreamed of or imagined in my life, to get to do this. To get to learn from these people, to get to have these conversations, to get to interrogate them from a very selfish perspective, trying to solve problems I have in my life. So, I feel like I owe you a huge thank you for being here and for listening to these episodes, and for making this platform what it is. Can I ask you a favor? I can't tell you how much, um, you can change the course of this podcast, the, the course of the guests we're able to invite to the show, and to the course of everything that we do here just by doing one simple thing. And that simple thing is hitting that subscribe button. Helps this channel more than I could ever explain. The guests on this platform are incredible because so many of you have hit that button. And I know when we think about what we wanna do together over the next year on this show, a lot of it is gonna be fueled by the amount of you that are subscribed and that tune into this show every week. So, thank you. Let's keep doing this. And I can't wait to see what this year brings for this show, for us as a community, and for this platform. (upbeat music)
- 2:46 – 10:28
Early Context
- SBSteven Bartlett
Richard, can we start by you giving me your, your context? Your earliest context?
- RHRichard Hammond
Where? Uh, yeah. Little fella. Born in, born in Birmingham. Uh, have mum and dad. I'm the eldest of three brothers. Um, quite a close-knit family. My mum's dad worked in the car industry. He was a coach builder, so he was trained as a cabinet maker working with wood. Then he went into coach building, which is in the old days when cars had a steel chassis and then they'd have an ash, usually wooden frame, over the top. So that's where he started, 'cause his cabinet-making skills were relevant. But then he stayed within the car industry and finished up working at Jensen. So cars were always, they were always in my imagination. They weren't, like, littering the drive, 'cause, you know, we had modest means. So, we had a purple Marina Coupe as our kind- our best car. Um, but I loved them. And that, that grew into an obsession. Yeah, so schooled there until 15, uh, and then we moved north as a family, uh, and I went to Ripon Grammar School up in the North. And from there started work in radio in 1988. That's a long time ago, isn't it? (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) I wasn't alive back then, but-
- RHRichard Hammond
Yes, thank you so much.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RHRichard Hammond
We've already disc- just as I was coming in, we mentioned that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RHRichard Hammond
The fact that I talk regularly to, like, full-grown adults. Like, important people who do lots of important stuff.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm. (laughs)
- RHRichard Hammond
And they'll say, "Oh yeah, I love your show. I used to watch it when I was a little kid."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah, I've done it that long. Yeah, I know.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You've led a, a life that is a real anomaly in many respects. You know, you've done some unbelievable things that people would just dream of doing. When, uh, when, when you... When I think back on my own life, I try and pinpoint the moments of influence. Whether it was a TV show I watched or something that happened, for better or for worse. Like you said with your dad and his, uh, his, um, love for cars, that made me end up living a, a life that was a little bit different.
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you think about those things and why you, why you became an anomaly, what are those anomalous influences?
- RHRichard Hammond
See, my favorite game is to look back and pretend they were all part of some great plan-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- RHRichard Hammond
... and thread them all together. But you can only do that in retrospect.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RHRichard Hammond
For me, I guess, um, I always liked expression. I, I wanted to be a painter or I wanted to draw really well. I loved art at school. I loved English. I loved writing. Um, but I loved photography when I was about 10. Had improvised a little dark room under the stairs, um, and would print my own black and white photographs. So I loved all of that. But I was very much... Things like that were for other people. I know it was a Birmingham thing. Brummies, I've always had a... But Brummies don't go, "Wow." Your average Brummie will never go, "Wow!" They'll go, "That's normal, mate. Derek's got one like that, only bigger."
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RHRichard Hammond
They... It's, it's just something we do. We don't, we don't profess to, "Oh!" We don't do that. And you kind of need to be able to do that to then think, "That's what I might pursue." So key moment, am I making this up as being a key moment? I don't know. It feels like it. When I was eight, something like that, nine, um, my dad's parents lived in Weston-super-Mare.So we'd go on holiday there, which meant an endless drive from Birmingham. Yes, before the motorway went all the way. So um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
I wasn't alive then. (laughs)
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah, yeah, t- that's gonna be a theme. Um, (laughs) we, we, we went all the way down to Weston-super-Mare to see them and we were w- walking along the front there, there's a low sea wall and the beach down here on my right. And I saw there was a bit of a kerfuffle going on and a bit later on, we looked over the wall and a lot of people gathered round and some people holding things and in the middle, uh, was Derek Griffiths, presenter, um, who was doing a piece to camera and there was a camera there and I remember thinking, "That's amazing. He's being so animated and talking to that thing." There's nobody there, but he's talking to it, he's engaging with it and sort of almost pulling a response out of it and I think that was... I didn't leave that experience going, "That's it! I'm gonna be a television presenter." Because that was for other people, just as being a photographer was for other people, or an artist. But I, i- it, it was there in my heart. It, it's when I thought, "I'd love... I bet that feels amazing."
- SBSteven Bartlett
What was for you? If that was for other people, what did you think was for you?
- RHRichard Hammond
I don't know. I guess, it... uh, I would never have imagined anything that I've done happening to me. (clears throat) None of it. Um, for me was j- just... See, I'm the, that bit older than you and possibly there's a generation that were raised by people who were glad to have got through the war and for whom what they really wanted was just a quiet life with nobody trying to kill them or their parents or their loved ones. So I, I wonder if there's echoes of that and I think that was maybe still echoing around Birmingham, that what you really wanted was just to make sure everything's okay, just to e- everyth- everybody's all right, we can have family life and we can just progress without making a fuss, sticking your head over the parapet because that brings risk. Um, so avoid that, don't do it. So I'd, I'd, I never would've dreamed... I'm not saying I was directionless.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Had I asked you at 18 or 16, "What are you going to be when you grow up?" What would you have replied, do you think?
- RHRichard Hammond
16, I'd have replied, "I just want to ride me moped." (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(snorts)
- RHRichard Hammond
Um, I'd have wanted to be an artist, a great painter, but I'd taken no meaningful steps towards it at all because, again, lacked confidence. Um, yeah, I, I was sort of... That would only have happened if a miracle had occurred. Do you know what I mean? If you have an option that you're not actually pursuing actively because you think that's not for me, but I'll keep it in there.
- 10:28 – 22:31
Being self-conscious about height
- RHRichard Hammond
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you know why?
- RHRichard Hammond
Uh, because I was conscious of being, you know, smaller than everybody else and I wanted to be a bigger noise in the room. I wanted to sort of disrupt and do stuff, but I w- didn't wanna be naughty. I had no... I still hate being in trouble. I hate being in trouble. Um, it bothers me and it did then, but I, I was just... Honestly, I wouldn't have put up with me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You know, there's like a stereotype that, that if you're s- smaller in stature, that you're, you're really in- you're, you're insecure, that it becomes, uh, almost like a shame or an insecurity as a young man and then you kind of, you act against that by exhibiting certain behaviors. Was that true for you? Was there ever like a shame of being smaller?
- RHRichard Hammond
It was... (sighs) Yeah, I guess you don't really, it's not something you crave. Although, I've, you know, I've spoken to lots of tall people who often wish and, and had a similarly difficult time as a child 'cause you're always sticking out the crowd and you don't always want to and you can't make yourself small. Um, it genuinely doesn't trouble me now. I mean, the truth of the matter is, often when I meet people for the first time and if they've seen me on the telly, there's a moment and they're all, and, and they're disappointed because they're expecting to meet something that you'd hang on a Christmas tree or put on a mantelpiece, but I'm actually, what, five-seven-ish? So I'm fairly average really, it's just that I consistently work with much taller people. But it... Yeah, it did drive me on as a kid and I, I do... It's bullying. I, I've never bleated about it, but it is and it, it influenced me greatly, yeah. Yeah, it, it-I overcompensated. I felt I had to. It's almost like you take that as a kid, I mean.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- RHRichard Hammond
You take that into the room with you. Anything that makes you different, whatever that is, you take that in the room with you, and it's kind of you have to deal with it, and you have to deal with it, you have to compensate for it. Be funnier or be quicker or be angrier or noisier or naughty. You have to somehow compensate with this thing, which is to do with, I guess, if you could bring that thing with you into a room and it was simply absorbed and it didn't matter, then you could be the person behind all of that. So yeah, I think it did influence. It's one of the reasons I'm a broadcaster now, for sure.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah. Bound to be. Must be. Must be. I've often thought really if you're lucky enough, it's a path. People seldom have careers now as broadcasters, as I think of it, because they're personalities and that's a different game. But I come from an era when it was a craft. You know, I s- I, I spent a long time learning about how to address an audience through radio. You never pluralize the audience. You talk to people one-on-one. Um, all sorts of things. And those craft skills have gone, and they've gone from TV. They're oth- Is that a bad or a good thing? I don't know. If actually we're getting to see people genuinely as they are, if we're celebrating interesting personalities rather than somebody who simply learned a craft, maybe that's better. But I, I, I was pushed to do it, I think, in part by that. And I've often said that the worst people to pursue it, as in the worst people to deal with the trappings of success in the media, are by definition the same ones who are the only ones driven enough to achieve it-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh.
- RHRichard Hammond
... because they're compensating. So ...
- SBSteven Bartlett
Amen.
- RHRichard Hammond
That's why it can be damaging, because only the man or woman who are so desperate for it will have hung on and endured sacrificing friends and time and spare time and sometimes dignity and whatever else in order to get there. And they're therefore the least able to deal with it when whatever it was that they craved is given them. (laughs) They'd be better off solving the craving, removing the craving, than feeding it. That's my theory.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I said this to my girlfriend yesterday-
- RHRichard Hammond
(laughs) Oh, did you?
- SBSteven Bartlett
... in bed at 1:00 AM.
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah. You said?
- SBSteven Bartlett
The point about how people that strive to have the admiration, let's call it-
- RHRichard Hammond
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... or the, the success, whatever, the sort of external validation may be a broader way to kind of describe that, are also the ones that once they get it will struggle the most to deal with it-
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... whether it's because of the-
- RHRichard Hammond
Right.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... the scrutiny that comes with it or the ch- or the, you know, the power that comes with it-
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... or whatever that comes with it. And so if you give it-
- RHRichard Hammond
Well, that's my exact point.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- RHRichard Hammond
That's exactly it, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- 22:31 – 31:43
Social media and the impact on us
- RHRichard Hammond
play with.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you... I, I do sometimes ponder if, um, that world without the internet-
- RHRichard Hammond
My analog world.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... would, would be a much more enjoyable world for the human being to live in. And it kind of links somewhat back to what we were talking about earlier, where if you think about the essence of what it is to be human, I don't think we're mo- we're supposed to be exposed to this much information and this much sort of global connection, um, in terms of like the bombardment of notifications and this constant stimulus which leaves you in that fight or flight state, maybe a bit-
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah, but the drive to do that is quintessentially human and it's one of the reasons we proliferated the way we have. That spreading of gossip and sharing of information and sharing of, um, mutually agreed standards, be that industry showbiz gossip, or religion, or anything else. But sharing those is what's a- enabled us to work together in huge numbers. Otherwise, we would be in little, little individual groups still and gathering. So it's, it's been key. We have to have it. It was inevitable. I think it's run away a bit. I think the critical nature of gossip and sharing all of that, because we've developed this way of doing it, but maybe it'll decrease in import. Maybe we'll need bigger spikes in it to actually grab our attention. But I don't, I don't think, we can't condemn it because we've pursued it. It's what's come out of us. We have all the options, that's what, so we need to look at what it will do for us. I think it'll water down. It'll dilute.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I wonder if the brain has evolved at the same pace as it.
- RHRichard Hammond
Well, the brai- I mean, it can. It is, it is a, a limitlessly flexible sort of bucket of soup and electricity, isn't it, really? I mean, I dented mine.... crashing to the ground at 320 miles an hour. Stupid boy. (clears throat) That was typical of me. I only did that 'cause I'm a short bloke. That is short bloke all over. "Anybody want to drive this rocket-powered dragster?" "Me, me, me." Everybody be looking, "Yeah, I'll do it." (clears throat) And then it crashed. But I, you know, I did damage mine and there were all sorts of anomalies within it, ways in which it didn't work as it should, emotional responses were all over the place. No big motor control issues, but some. Um, but it rewired, it fixed itself. And there's lo- loads of instances of it doing that so if the brain can recover and literally, physically reshape and, and function post-physical trauma, then it can also ... We could evolve. We could be evolving now. Will it be genetically encoded and passed down? Hmm? So will a new generation following on from you evolve? Will they carry, pre-coded, that information to deal with our digital world? W- well, physiological changes, no. But then as human beings, because we have to have the capacity, you might be born a Wall Street billionaire, um, a fisherman in an Amazonian village, the same essential ingredients have to do that. We have to have that limitless flexibility so maybe that's why our brain will ... Maybe it'll always retain that flexibility, which means by definition it can't evolve in a distinctive route, 'cause that's narrowing options. We're still born with this incredible capacity to be and do anything within a very broad range of things. And we need to hang onto that. I mean, a baby at ... All a baby giraffe has to do is endure a six-foot drop when it's born and be able to run a few minutes later and you're away. That's it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RHRichard Hammond
We have to do a lot of other stuff.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I wonder. Uh, I ... A part of the reason I, I ask this question is 'cause I'm trying to think about, um, a lot of the things we're seeing with mental health and how it's, it, it appears that situational and environmental factors are causing, of the modern world, are causing the brain to struggle in many ways, um, at a fundamental level. Whether it's loneliness that's driving the brain to feel a sense of purposelessness or something, or whether it's the overstimulation which is causing anxiety and the brain is struggling to cope with that. Um, that's kind of why I was asking the question as to whether the brain is keeping up with the, the nature of the modern world, because there seems to be a lot of symptoms that it isn't.
- RHRichard Hammond
But there's only so many stimuli that can be received and registered via our various senses and organs into that lump in there. There's only so many things that could ... I, I, I think, um, you might attribute magical qualities to an analog existence and you can see why we would, because an analog existence has a degree of, um, of definition that couldn't be achieved digitally because you're always limited. Whereas it's a bit like trying to explain science and the world using science. Trying to explain the universe using science. It's only the languification of it. It's not ... It isn't absolute. These aren't the facts. They're a version of facts that we can share between us, and, and sharing and communicating is what we do. It's what defines us. So that's all it is. It's a languification of that that is, but it doesn't have the definition. It can't go down to a fine enough ... It's, it's, it's still like trying to paint the Mona Lisa using Lego bricks.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RHRichard Hammond
It's not quite fine enough. But I think the digital world is even less fine because it, it's zeros and ones. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RHRichard Hammond
It's absolutes and yes, in, in, in what we do it's great. It returns empirical data on whether or not something is being approved of if you're making a marketing film, as opposed to sticking your finger in the air and seeing which way the wind's blowing, and are people looking at that poster outside the bus station. Yes. But the poster outside the bus station in the analog world is, has a far finer level of, of, uh, of detail than I think you could do digitally. But are you, are you attributing ... Are you saying that it's intrinsically bad that we're drifting towards a digital world and away from the analog because the analog contains something that ... 'Cause stimuli are stimuli. Are you, are you-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- RHRichard Hammond
Stimuli... If you can stimulate, you could replicate ... We could honeycomb the entire world and you could be put into a pod-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RHRichard Hammond
... into which you could be given sufficient physical, mental stimuli, which isn't even chemicals-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RHRichard Hammond
... to maintain what is measurably a healthy human being. Would you be? I don't know.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I guess I'm, I'm as- asserting that, like, humans clearly have some fundamental needs, you know, shelter, connection, um, psy- uh, I was gonna say psychological safety. I'm not sure that's necessarily a, a, a human need, but it's important. And some of those things seem to be being stripped away by the nature of the world we live in today where, you know, in America when asked, "How many people have you got to turn to in a time of crisis?" The answer used to be three. The, I think it's the moda- modal answer or the medium answer is now zero. Theresa May appointed the first loneliness czar. They think, um, loneliness is significantly worse than smoking 20 cigarettes a day. It reduces your life expectancy by 10 years. And I wonder whether the- that's almost like a human response to something that's been stripped away from the way we live our lives over the last whatever. You know, like living in four white walls alone as a single bachelor ordering my food using a glass screen, ordering ... Like, dating using a piece of glass, stimulating myself potentially sexually using a piece of glass screen in my hand, and then the processed food that I'm eating, the sh- I'm just wondering ... And then, uh, you know, the constant stimulation of this dopamine hit from this glass screen as well in my hand that's keeping me awake, up at night, hurting my sleep and then keeping me in fight or flight because I'm nervous about something on this glass screen. You know?
- RHRichard Hammond
But if that's the answer, w- what is the answer to that? Because we made it collectively as a species.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. (laughs)
- RHRichard Hammond
We have gone that route. And I'm not sort of absolutist.
- SBSteven Bartlett
We made the nuclear bomb. Yeah. (laughs)
- RHRichard Hammond
I'm not saying we've gone that way. Well yeah, I'm not saying we've gone that way, we must continue doing that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- RHRichard Hammond
It might well be that disruptors need to put their hand up and say, "Are we sure about this?"
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- 31:43 – 39:05
Top Gear
- RHRichard Hammond
- SBSteven Bartlett
Top Gear, that really was a big hit. (laughs)
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah. You caught on, didn't you?
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah. I, it was remarkable. I'd done car shows. I'd done radio for years. Um, moved, uh, to the South to get a job at Renault in the press office so I could get to know the editors of the car shows, which I duly did, one of whom, Pete Baker, saved me and gave me a job on Granada Men & Motors making little car shows. Um, and then eventually, after years and years and years of doing that, I auditioned for the new Top Gear and got the job.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you got that job, did you, what were your expectations of, of the role of the show?
- RHRichard Hammond
Well, initially, I cried and opened a bottle-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- RHRichard Hammond
... of champagne with my wife. Oh, God, yeah, it was just it. I'd spent my whole life trying to do that (laughs) so it, it had worked. Yeah, yeah, it was a huge moment. Um, but we just thought, "We'll make a car show." I remember the conversation in White City, BBC HQ, um, with most of us. It was before James joined, but the rest of us were all in place. And weirdly, some of the people we still work with now. We were all in that room, and we all said, "Right, these are the ground rules of Top Gear. It's about the real world. Cars that people really buy. No super cars. No foreign travel. We're only gonna drive proper cars that people buy in this country." And then that didn't last very long at all. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- RHRichard Hammond
We realized, eh, that's not what people wanted, not what we wanted to make. We never made it with any science or calculation. We just made the best car show we could. And we were lucky. Things aligned. The world wanted that show, three misshapen blokes talking about their passion. But I do think if you... You'll have watched that pottery show. I don't care about pottery at all, but watching people who are so into it, you know, the, the one lovely chap cries when somebody does something. It's like, wow, watching people engage with, indulge, or share their passion is incredibly compelling. Whether it's for making pottery or baking or dancing. It doesn't matter. Or cars. Doesn't matter.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I wanna know more about why. Like, why, why did people love it? You're, you're touching on some psychological elements there, but what is it, what is it doing for the viewer at home in terms of their... What is it giving them? 'Cause it's not just cars, is it?
- RHRichard Hammond
Oh, no, no. It was, it was... Uh, we were still a car show, but, but we always used to say, "You don't have to be a car nerd to watch it. We do that for you." I think it was a means of escape, but through a relatable portal, because you could look at all of us three, and let's be honest, we're none of us Brad Pitt. (laughs) Uh, we're none of us pr- any good at anything, really. Uh, you, you could, I think people would always find they'd identify with one of the three of us. I'm either the little, short, squeaky brummy one, or I'm the more graceful, longer haired, slightly fat one, or the really big, fat, shouty one. Which one am I? Which one? And you'd fall into one of those camps. And so that would sort of take you along with us on whatever adventure we were going on. It's why we ended up making today, the, the big trips, 'cause that's what people liked, the proper escape. The one thing that troubles me though is about that, that business about the subject being important. If you're gonna make a TV show, podcast, piece of internet content, whatever, about something, the subject leads. It has to. It has to have that authenticity and integrity to it, because we, the audience, will see when it doesn't. And it's, it took... Cars, for some reason, are always... If somebody's gonna make a TV show or piece of internet content about it, they say, "Right, we'll do this thing about cars, okay?" And then they don't get anybody who knows about cars involved in making it. But you wouldn't do that if it was baking or dancing or cooking or sport or football. I mean, you wouldn't. You'd, you'd want that baked in because it's not so that you wrong foot your consumers, your listeners, your viewers, or catch them out or show off that you know more than they do. But you can demonstrate, yeah, we... That this is real. This is, this, this is an authentic passion. And we always kept that right at the forefront. It wasn't big, but it was there, even though what we were doing was ridiculous often.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How much of it was, um, scripted per se? I was wa- I was watching, uh, some, some clips earlier on, and I was... There were such moments of brilliance. I was wondering, is, is that like a producer in their ear telling them to crack that joke or to, like, say that to him? Or is that just them being comfortable enough to be free?
- RHRichard Hammond
The really good bits are in the moment. But, I mean, that's easy to guess, isn't it? You're, uh, you'll have said some killer, funny, or incredibly moving things in the moment. That's when we do our best work, all of us. So we would always devise a broad...... trajectory for the whole thing if we're making it special. It's expensive, so we, we can't just, oh, we'll just get a mongolia and see if some stuff happens. You've got to set something up.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- RHRichard Hammond
But you know that's the minimum you're going to come back with. Um, and you know the best bits will be the unplanned bits, of course. Always.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Was there a moment in t- the journey of Top Gear where you went ... where you thought to yourself, "Fucking hell, this is really ..."
- RHRichard Hammond
What?
- SBSteven Bartlett
This is, this is big.
- RHRichard Hammond
Oh, well, um, the, uh, surprising moment was day one, studio one, series one, standing in Dunsfold (laughs) . So this is 2002, very early, or maybe 2001 we filmed it, I think. Can't remember. Long time ago. Uh, standing on the stage. And, you know, I'd always watched Top Gear because I loved cars. Um, and I'd watched Jeremy on it 'cause he's older than me and he was already doing it. And so as we were ... It was recording one, they played in the Top Gear theme. And my instant re- response from inside was, "Oh, Top Gear's on. Brilliant. Uh, oh, I'm on it. I better concentrate."
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) .
- RHRichard Hammond
Um, but yeah, there were key moments. Once when we were driving three, um, cut price supercars that we'd bought, and we pulled into a petrol station, so this is early days. And everybody came out running to see us and to talk about the cars, and they sort of got that, "Oh, what are you boys doing? What are you up to now?" And that's when we realized, "Oh, hang on, we've created something here. It's got a momentum of its own," which was great.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And it really did have a momentum-
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... of its own, globally.
- RHRichard Hammond
Mm-hmm. No idea why. Honestly, none of us have. None of us have. It was ... We just made the best show we could, and next thing we know, we're walking out in front of 30,000 people on stage in South Africa or Sydney or Hong Kong or all around the world, doing the live stage shows, with, with people that loved the show. And we love ... Why? We went out in front of 60,000 people in the Polish National Stadium in Warsaw. And just before we went out on stage, I was with the lads backstage, and we have those earpieces and microphones so you can only hear each other, o- otherwise too much noise. And they're all, "Ah-hah," and there's music playing, we were about to all drive out with a ... some terrible stunts. I usually hadn't listened to the briefing, so there'd be a crash. And just before we went out, I said, "Lads, have three guys with less talent ever gone out in front of more people?" (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RHRichard Hammond
We thought, "No, no, that's never happened." No, we ... Listen, it was just a serendipitous lining up of a need for our slightly anarchic approach, um, I don't know, but, um, it was just a time (snaps fingers) came and went, when we fitted.
- 39:05 – 50:32
Guilt & Proving I'm worthy
- RHRichard Hammond
- SBSteven Bartlett
Someone asked me on an interview I did earlier on, it was Arcadia Magazine, they said, "Is there any guilt associated with your success?" And it's quite a curious question. Um, and it stunned me into a bit of a silence. Guilt? How, how does that question sit with you? Is there any guilt?
- RHRichard Hammond
Same thing. Yeah, there is. The, uh, uh, it's, it ... Uh, guilt is ... It's slightly more refined than that, it's almost a, "Why me?"
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- RHRichard Hammond
It's, "What?" Um, yeah, because I'm still the little Birmingham lad that being a photographer wasn't for me. That's for other people. I can't do that. I can't actually be a photographer for real in the big world. And if somebody had said I could, you know, run various businesses and be a television presenter and ... No, don't be daft. There's not guilt. It's being conscious of being the beneficiary of a great deal of luck. When I was younger, you go ... I went through a phase of, "Yeah, but I always had ..." You know, luck often lands at 2:00 in the morning and you're the only one still in the radio station editing, so that's where ... No, it's just luck. It really is. 'Cause I got people who started in the same year as me, '88, um, and I'm ... I got all the luck. I took some serendipitous decisions. I took some risky decisions. You know, I stepped away from my only ever job with a company car back into broadcasting and took a massive pay cut. I took a massive pay hit when I joined Top Gear. Um, they were risks. But, um, they're only risks if they're freely made. Given that they were the product of whatever it was in me that was driving me to do what I was doing, it was already gonna happen. So I'm lucky because not only did that opportunity come along, but earlier in my life, something had happened and equipped me with a need to gain whatever it was I stood a chance of gaining from taking that risk, so I took that risk. So it's still, it's still luck. It's still luck. Somebody else could have had that same opportunity, but they hadn't been lucky enough on top of that to have been given that extra impetus to pursue it and take that risk by something that'd happened earlier in their lives. So it's luck, and I've just been very lucky.
- SBSteven Bartlett
That's a strange feeling though, isn't it?
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
To, to think that you got to live this life because of s- a set of factors that, you know, you were born in a certain place, w- in a certain way, and then that created that impetus you described, and then, uh, the, the dominoes that fell and the decisions you chose to make because of all of those subsequent, um, experiences lands you with this incredible job, with an incredible level of freedom. It's quite a, quite ... Can be quite a, as you say, a "Why me?" like feeling of ...
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah. Is it guilt? It kind of is. It tastes slightly differently, but it is sort of ... Is it embarrassment? Is it slightly embarrassing? Is that why having, God, accidentally stepped into so many luck traps, um, I'm now, you know, running my, my businesses, and, uh, um ... Because that's something I feel I can say, "No, I did that. That wasn't just lucky. I made that happen," by consciously taking decisions, by thinking about it. Maybe. Dunno, but then I'm lucky enough to have the opportunity to do that, which I would never have had. So it's all ... The whole experiment of my life has been skewed entirely by those key elements of luck at those key stages. But, but we all have those ... Uh, we're lucky to be alive, and it's easy to say that, and it sounds trite and nonsensical-... but we are. And for each one of us to experience our own individual perception of the universe, to live this experience, is so phenomenally lucky. So many millions and billions of things have to not just have happened, but continue happening for that to be possible. That whether or not whilst experiencing this miracle of self-awareness in and of the universe, we also get to go on the telly driving about in a car or not, is kind of irrelevant at the end. This, having this conversation, being aware of having loved ones, being aware of yourself in the world, being aware of the world, all of that, that's the amazing stuff. The rest is just stuff. And that's, uh, easy to say for me because I'm not that worried about my next phone bill. It's a lot harder if you are. I get that and I'm not, I'm not, not failing to be aware of that. And right now for a lot of people, whether or not they get to do a job on TV driving around in cars, or whether or not they get to, to look at the universe and talk about the idea of God and love existing or not with their mates, is kinda less important than they've just had to have a prepaid meter fitted for their gas. So, the answer to that, guilt, embarrassment, I think carry it with you. Maybe learn from it, look up from it occasionally and think, "How can I ... what can I ... can I maybe better able to connect with people?" That, just that would be useful.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What's your opinion of yourself? You know when you, what's the, this is, uh, a really interesting question, but, um, you said something which, which kind of brought me to this question about this idea that maybe the building these businesses that you have now is another pursuit of, like, proving one is worthy, I guess. Because, because of-
- RHRichard Hammond
Uh, sometimes I want to prove I'm not a lucky idiot. Um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
So what does that say, that's why I said, "What's your opinion of yourself?"
- RHRichard Hammond
Oh, it's probably b- uh, I guess, for that reason as I've probably just revealed, it's probably quite low, isn't it? Um, I'm very conscious of being very lucky. I think, uh, to describe myself, um ...
- SBSteven Bartlett
What does the voice in Richard's head say Richard is who he is, what he is?
- RHRichard Hammond
He'd like to be more fair about life. I don't, uh, that troubles me, I think, fairness. And I'm aware it's desperately unfair. Um, but also, yeah, as, as with a lot of us, unfairly, um, anxious inside. Need, need to be loved.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Same.
- RHRichard Hammond
Desperately. Um, need to be reassured. And one of the dangers, and when I ... uh, I should imagine you'll find this given that, you know, you're, you're young and enjoying a stellar career, in what are archetypal positions of power and authority. So it's very likely that the world will look at you and think, "Well he's the last one that needs a bit of reassurance and a chuck on the shoulder and someone to say, 'Oh you're doing really well, well done.'" Whereas actually, you do. Um, and I certainly find that, that's something that I, I need. I need someone to acknowledge that, um, that things are going well and you're taking advantage of whatever luck comes your way, and, you know, I've, I love building my businesses up because I love the fact that I'm conscious, that's other people's jobs. This is their story I'm helping build. If they get working with me at 24, even if they only work with me for five years, when they- they'll remember that forever like I remember the first radio stations I worked at. This is their history we're taking a part in writing. So I'm conscious of that. But at the same time, sometimes you just need someone to ruffle your hair and go, "Well done."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- RHRichard Hammond
That would be nice. Yeah. I'm not asking you to ruffle my hair just because-
- SBSteven Bartlett
No, yeah. (laughs)
- RHRichard Hammond
... it's slightly awkward when you've done that. Cheers. You know.
- SBSteven Bartlett
No, y- it's, I guess it's quite curious because someone would, someone, uh, looking in might think, "Well, you know, Richard's done so much in his life, he must just be absolutely satisfied and he must be com- c- feel compl- completely complete and like there's nothing more else to prove or to ..." But the, the business point you made sounds like you feel like you have something to prove there.
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah. And I'm 53. I've got another, I've got another go round in me yet. I'd like to have. See, I don't know, when you're thinking about time off, if you've ever got time off coming up, which I shouldn't imagine is very often, I don't know, it isn't for me either, but when it is, I always think, "Yeah. God I'd love to just take a week and wake up every day and just go for a run and then maybe ride an old motorcycle and just really, really revel in..." No, I don't. Im- immediately, um, I am hideously addicted to work. But that's hardly surprising given that work has also been self-verification and it, it's, it's the reward that I probably shouldn't have had, so obviously I'm addicted to that. Who wouldn't be?
- SBSteven Bartlett
There's a cost about that, though, no?
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, if you're not careful. Absolutely.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What's the cost?
- RHRichard Hammond
Uh, your relationships. Um, you know, my two daughters. That ... I, I've made excuses over the years after, you know, I'm sitting in a rainforest filming and there'll be a camera operator and maybe it's a bloke and he's just had his first children and he's away from home and he's upset. And I've said, "Yeah, but you've got to remember, you know, you're their first example of how to lead a life." You can see where this is going. And, you know, you're gonna come back with amazing stories and they're gonna look and think, "Wow, well if he can pursue his dreams and do that, I can pursue mine," and you'll inspire them. Yeah, but they also just would quite like you to be around. That's a fact. Um, yeah, I've been able to provide well for my girls, Izzy and Willow. Um, I wish I'd been there more, of course I do. But if I'd been there more, we wouldn't have been where we were. I can't ... Our life would be so different because I've worked sort of in and out of London for 25 years, and we've lived deliberately out of London. They've been raised in Herefordshire, that's their county, that's where they belong. My eldest, I bumped into her in London this week, she popped into the flat.And she'd just been out in a pub in Fulham and pretty much everybody in there was from her county of Herefordshire and she knew them all. And that's important, that she, she can drift around London and know people, or she can drift around her home county, and the same for Willow. And that's, that's important for them. They've got a bigger view of the world, but they still have a home to go to, and always shall have.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Has there ever, have you ever pondered that you might, 'cause I'm a workaholic too-
- RHRichard Hammond
No, I've overdone it. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
No, no, no. Yeah. Well, basically, I, I, I'm definitely addicted to work, and sometimes and, like, just still the pursuit of, like, building and creating things-
- 50:32 – 52:25
Ads
- RHRichard Hammond
it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Quick one. One of our sponsors of this podcast, BlueJeans, recently did some research and they found that almost a third of companies are still spending almost a quarter of a million a year on launching and hosting virtual and hybrid events. This is obviously bonkers. With BlueJeans' new software, called Events and Studios, you can host these professional, world-class feeling events for a fraction of the cost. So now, going forward for all of my companies and for myself, I think we did our last one in Telegram not so long ago, every event I will host will be hosted on BlueJeans Events and Studios. And I've never seen a software tool that allows you to personalize and brand an interface, and the interface itself with such ease. That's the real thing about the, the software. I, I've done, I think, two events on BlueJeans Events and Studios. The ease of not having to be an expert to create an unbelievable event. If you've got an event coming up, if you've got a virtual event coming up, do me and yourself a favor and check out BlueJeans Events and Studios. It's honestly incredible. And I'd love to hear your responses if you do give it a try. You know, I never really usually pick the chocolate-flavored Huel's. My favorite are the banana flavor. I love the salted caramel flavor. But recently, I think I, in part blame Jack in my team, who's obsessed with the chocolate flavor Huel's. I've started drinking the chocolate flavor Huel's for the first time, and I absolutely love them. My life means that I sometimes disregard my diet. And it's funny, that's part of the reason why I've had a lot of guests on this podcast recently that talk about diet and health and, and those kinds of things, because I am trying to make an active effort to be more healthy, to lose a little bit of weight as well, but to be more healthy. And the role that Huel plays in my life is it means that in those moments where sometimes I might reach for, you know, junk foods, having an option that is nutritionally complete, that is high in fiber, that is incredibly high in protein, that has all the vitamins and minerals that my body needs within arm's reach that I can consume on the go is where Huel has been a game changer for me.
- 52:25 – 1:05:29
Your crash
- SBSteven Bartlett
You talked about a crash earlier.
- RHRichard Hammond
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
While you were filming Top Gear, and-
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah. Not a very good driver, me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
36 years old, 2006, I believe.
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Um, take me to that day.
- RHRichard Hammond
Well, um, we'd had a discussion in the office, and I have told this story before and, and some people, you might be bored of it, sorry. Um, Andy Wilman, the editor had said he'd got this chance for this car to be driven. And I'd, I'd gone into the office saying, "Look, I just wanna go really fast. What's the fastest we can go?" It's that dumb an idea. They came up with this car and I went to drive it, and I turned up on the day, um, did numerous runs in the thing. Uh, it was pretty basic and crude. Really quite fast, especially when you hit the afterburner (laughs) . Um, jet propelled dragster. I didn't have a speedo in the car because they knew I'd be chasing speeds and that would be dangerous. So there was no speedo. I didn't know how fast I was going until after the event. Um, you stopped it... To, to, to stop it from high speed, had to pull parachute cord, to stop the p- Parachute came out and stopped it. Uh, and I'd done all the day's runs, and the director came over and said, "Rich, we've got, I've got permission for one last run." "Oh, brilliant. Right." Um, "We were happy with how it's gone, but let's get one more bag of shots." And, um, I was aware something had happened. Uh, I, all I recall is a sense of, "Oh, no!" Um, foot going towards the brake and realized I was doing three year... I didn't know it, but I was doing 300, just shy of 320 miles an hour. So brakes are not gonna do anything. Um, the car... What had happened is the front tire had delaminated and blown. Whoosh. The car had skewed right and was going off road, but it was still doing 290 miles an hour as it started to roll. I'd pulled the lever for the parachute, which is all that mattered to me when I finally, you know, weeks or months later became aware of what was happening. I needed to know had I done that, because I looked at my children and thought, "If I've nearly denied you a father for the rest of your lives because I'm an idiot and I did the wrong thing, I wouldn't forgive myself." But I, I did do the right thing, so it just, it was never gonna stop it. Uh, so then it went over and it, it rolled and as it went over I knew, you know, there's no roof, just a roll bar. I didn't know how fast I was going, but I knew it was fast. Um, and I just thought, "Well, I won't die now." But it wasn't...... again, I'm, I'm on record of saying this and I don't want to go on about it 'cause I get self-conscious. I don't want anybody to think, "Oh, stop going on about that." And I'm not but if, if you are interested, I found it interesting that there was no fear associated with that. There was no, "Oh, no!" There was genuinely, it was answering a question that kind of at the back of my mind I'd always wondered, and I think a lot of us do, all of us, "When am I gonna die? How? Why?" And then it was like, "Oh, it's now. That's the answer. That's the next thing to do." That was it. And then I wasn't conscious again until in hospital. I was conscious apparently when they got to the car but I have no recollection 'cause the damage was done, brain decelerative sloshing forward, so frontal lobe bleed. 'Cause just decelerating upside down (laughs) using my head as a brake, um, it, it isn't good for you.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Have you heard the story about what was going on in your, your family at that time?
- RHRichard Hammond
Hm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
While you were unconscious in hospital?
- RHRichard Hammond
I don't-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Who called Mindy, your wife?
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah. Mindy was called. Um, she was on the road. She was called by, uh, Willman. They all spoke. It was hard and my daughters were young. Um, and for them to grasp it was pretty, pretty difficult. Um, yeah, it's disruptive, it's horrible, and it's hard. And my memories are, are all over the place anyway 'cause, um, I had very bad, um, post-traumatic amnesia for weeks, like a one-minute memory. Which Mindy, my wife, always says I was the nicest I've ever been. I was lovely apparently. (laughs) I was perfectly happy, which does make me and has made me think often since that... You know, I've got a friend who's, you know, we all have friends perhaps or, or ourselves whose parents are, through whatever degenerative form of, of illness, losing memories. Um, and I always say to him, "Is she happy?" "Yeah, fine." If I go to see them, yes, she'll come into the pub to see me three or four times and is equally happy each time. Well, that's all right, doesn't matter. Um, and I was perfectly happy reading the same newspaper every single day, several times a day. I just... It was by my bed, I'd just pick it up and, "Oh, brilliant." And I'd sit down and read it. Put it down. A minute later, gone. Until Mindy took it away 'cause she was sick of seeing me read it. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RHRichard Hammond
But it was, it was more distressing. And, and really the message there is, yeah, as if it's... If somebody is in that confused state of whatever v- variety and for whatever reason, if they're happy, they're happy. Then you're, all you've got to do is cope to support them in that happiness. Doesn't matter if they can't remember who you are, what anything is. If they're happy, they're happy. And that's that. And I was.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you were in that coma, I, I, I, I watched the video you produced about your, um... incredibly powerful video about your morphine dream.
- RHRichard Hammond
Mm-Hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And, uh, the crooked tree-
- RHRichard Hammond
Mm-Hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... on the hill. Is that, is that true?
- RHRichard Hammond
Mm-Hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
That there was a morphine... You, you, you, a morph-
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah, I was in a... I was being held in coma because brain was expanding post-crash, so it was... they were holding me in coma, but it was looking very, very bad. And, um, they had called Mindy in. Um, and they said, "I think we, we're losing him." I could do. She said, "Is there anything I can do?" "Not really. Try anything." "Can I shout?" "Yeah." So she roared and shouted at me, "Don't you dare die," really quite sweary and cross.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Wh- why did she do that?
- RHRichard Hammond
Because she was cross. She didn't want me to die. I think there's lots of people who've done that. I think I'd do that. But when all else is tried and failed, if somebody is lying there, yeah, last resort. "Don't you dare!" Because, you know, she wanted me around. I think we'd all do that. It's not just a movie trope. You can, you can... You are calling to somebody. And I think we know in our heart of hearts, we do have a great deal of independence in terms of what happens to us. Our mind is a powerful thing. Um, mind and body are one. Chiropractor friend of mine... chiropractor, he'll kill me for that. Osteopath friend of mine, Steve. Sorry, Steve. Um, osteopath, very well-read man. And we were talking about mind and body as one, um, and about, you know, bringing the... I was so... I said something about bringing mind and body to work together and all together. And he said, "Well, yeah, well, it is all one 'cause it's never been apart." Oh, yeah. Your body and mind have never existed separately. They've only ever existed as one and one needs the other and complements and one is the other. Um, which is why if, in that coma state... And it's only an altered state of consciousness. I'm not dead. Um, I picked up on the emotion from Mindy, the anger, and thought, "Ooh," I said, "the dream, the dream was... Honestly, we're all gonna be in trouble now." It's not funny anymore. It's a very distinctive f- flavor of, you know when you're feeling you're being a bit naughty and you're being cheeky and you're getting... And then you realize, "Oh, no, I really am in trouble here." And that's when she was really roaring and shouting. And yes, our mind can do an awful lot with our bodies. There's enough evidence of that over the years.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Your mind took you to your favorite place?
- RHRichard Hammond
Mm-Hmm. Which gives me immense comfort because it will do that eventually anyway. I know that's where I'll go. And given that at the moment of dying, of the body shutting down, of it stopping to do all the things that it does, you're no longer tied by all those... by time. Not biological rhythms, lunar rhythms. None of those matter. You're not beholden to them anymore, which is a kind of eternity. So if my last thought had been walking round that tree in... I was up there, uh, two weeks ago.
- SBSteven Bartlett
The Lake District?
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah. Went to the same tree. Um-... yeah, if my mind takes me around there. And that thought echoes for all of eternity, as far as I'm concerned. And really, the universe only exists as far as I'm concerned or you're concerned. It's only your perception of it. And if that last moment is no longer constrained by worrying about heartbeats or cycling of the seasons, it's kind of an eternity, isn't it? And I wouldn't mind hanging around by that tree forever.
- 1:05:29 – 1:11:33
Depression
- SBSteven Bartlett
Depression?
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What was the, what were the symptoms of that, that made you realize that it was a reality for you?
- RHRichard Hammond
Um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
How, how were you different, or what did you feel?
- RHRichard Hammond
Some of them were really weird moments. Like, and I still get an echo of it. I remember having been institutionalized for a long time in hospitals, and, and actually in recovery, when I thought I was free. I wasn't really. I was still being monitored, and I was still being carefully guided. But when I was really free, I would have, you know, I'd be coming into London to do something, and I could open the wardrobe door and just look at all the shirts, and just trying to work out, oh... It was too much. Choice was a problem. I found choice really difficult for quite a long time. But also, I mean, feeling your emotions derailed or interfered with as a result of what are, what is only a neurochemical imbalance. That's all we're talking about, it's just chemicals and electricity. Uh, I was walking across my drive of my house, and I felt this sudden welling, upsurge of love in my chest. Well, what's that? This is not that long I've... Oh, I was still on the road to recovery, I suppose. And eventually identified, I'd walked past my old Land Rover, which I do love, but only 'cause I quite like it. It's an old Land Rover, but it just triggered this absolutely... I thought, "Blimey." Um, it made me think, you know, if emotions can be that profoundly affected by what was just a mix-up of chemicals and electricity in my head, then I am more aware of...... I don't listen to my emotions too closely if I'm very, very tired, or if I've had a big night out with the boys the night before. If I've drunk red wine, I do not tune in to see what I think about anything 'cause it's irrelevant for a day. Um, those are the rules. I've been quite lucky for that reason. I've, I've had that slightly more objective look at my own self. My own-
- SBSteven Bartlett
On that road to recov-
- RHRichard Hammond
... my emotional self and myself.
- SBSteven Bartlett
On that road to recovery, what was... Was there a hardest day where you look back and go, "That was the, the most challenging for myself and Mindy and..." ?
- RHRichard Hammond
Oh, there were loads. Anger was... There was... I was angry for a while.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- RHRichard Hammond
Not really massive, but anger is a problem in people recovering from brain injury. The weirdest thing though, I've chatted to so many people who've recovered from acquired brain injury, acquired in so many different ways, from being shot, to falling off a ladder, to a car crash, whatever, um, and the similarities are astonishing in the road to recovery, really are. The confusions, the weaknesses, the slight... It's not guilt. I mean, I, I wanted a T-shirt that on the front said, "I'm okay, stop asking," and on the back that said, "I'm still poorly, you know?"
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RHRichard Hammond
'Cause you... It's, it's that... It's... If you run for a bus, been a while since you ran for a bus, but if one were to run for a bus and you twist your ankle, and you sort of carry on running on it, "I'm all right. I'm fine. Yup. Yup." It's a bit like that with what I'd done, but of course what I'd injured was everyth- was me, where I am and how I see where I am. There's a horrible circularity to that type of injury. And I've, uh, I had a close friend who, again, was similarly injured falling off a horse 'cause he's an idiot. Um, and though again, massive similarities. There ain't a more different man you couldn't imagine. He has dignity, status, gravitas, great family, everything I'm not, but his experience of recovery, very, very similar.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Are there any remnants of the accident in, in, in terms of injuries or-
- RHRichard Hammond
Probably, but there's probably remnants of, well, everything that's happened to you in your life and everything that's happened to me in mine.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Are you aware of any? Is Mindy aware of any?
- RHRichard Hammond
No. Um, I worry, I do worry about my memory 'cause it's not brilliant. My working memory is very large, my sort of processing memory in the moment, so I can still read a page, page of script and deliver it. But my longer term, not brilliant. I have to consciously write memories down and work hard to recall them sometimes. Now, that might be because I'm 50, it might be... Or 53. Might be because I'm working a lot and I'm tired. It might be the onset of something else.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you worry about that?
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah. Hmm. I do. I do. I should probably have a look, find out. Probably should. Um...
- SBSteven Bartlett
Are you scared to find out?
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah. Yeah, because, you know, there was a bleed on the front. It could mean there's an increased risk. I don't know. I need to find out. And so I've, I've (laughs) just... I have been too scared to do it, but I do need to... I need to, um... I need to do it. Weirdly, on the way here, I had to stop off, um, for a medical. When you're doing a production, you'll know, you have to have a medical, which always has the, "Been involved in any accidents?" Mm-mm. Ugh. Can I have another piece of paper, please? I'm still going.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- RHRichard Hammond
Um, very nice doctor, and at, at the end, I said, "Yeah, I should definitely, um... I need to book myself in for one of those mid-life MOTs to see, you know, if everything's okay." And I wanted to say, "And to check there's nothing going awry up here," but I, I s- I chickened out. Didn't. Bad news, I probably need an MRI scan. But at 53, your, you know, your memory does start to get a bit... They call it lost key syndrome, the doctors did when I first came home from brain injury, and they have it with a lot of patients because, you know, they would lose their keys and go into an absolute flat tailspin panic, "Oh, no, I've lost my keys. It's brain..." No, you've just lost your keys. It happens. I am quite forgetful. I'm generally not paying attention, generally thinking about something else, the next thing, and therefore, I do drop the ball. I forget stuff. I lose stuff. I forget keys, but that's just, that's just me. That's not a function of something going wrong. It's how I am.
- 1:11:33 – 1:15:52
Health anxiety
- RHRichard Hammond
- SBSteven Bartlett
Isn't it such a peculiar thing that humans will avoid finding out something if they think there's potentially-
- RHRichard Hammond
Mm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... bad news on the end of it? I was reading some, I think some crazy study I was reading about over Christmas while I was writing, um, about how if someone is diagnosed with breast cancer at work, um, and they're in close proximity to you, you're less likely to go and get a checkup.
- RHRichard Hammond
Really?
- SBSteven Bartlett
So, yeah, it was-
- RHRichard Hammond
Which is counter to what we would imagine was the case.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Which is what you would assume-
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... but it's this avoidance of discomfort.
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
The psychological discomfort associated with finding out bad news. And I, um... I had a procrastination expert on the podcast once upon a time, and he said, "Whenever you're procrastinating on something, it's because there's some s- sort of psychological discomfort associated with the activity." An essay you don't feel competent about, so you end up just doing the dishes all day, or whatever it might be. So when you're procrastinating, you've gotta ask yourself that question, "What is the psychological discomfort here that I'm trying to avoid?" So I'm asking you, Richard, what is the psychological discomfort you're trying to avoid and why?
- RHRichard Hammond
Uh, quite simply, facing something I wouldn't wanna face. It's my own doom. It's all that... It, it's, um... I would find it very difficult to talk to my family and say, "Right, this is what's coming." I know I'd be all right, as I've said. If you're in a confused state, well, it doesn't bother you, but I'd feel bad putting that on them. Yeah. I want them to have a future full of, of hope, and clarity, and energy, and vigor, and potential, and fun, and I don't want to interrupt that.That's heavy.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- RHRichard Hammond
I'm coming in for a laugh, do you, blimey.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But life is though, isn't it? (laughs) It's interesting, you know, th- this conversation about, like, health anxiety, um, I think it's one worth having and trying to get to a solution on because whether it's that or whether it's a lump I feel somewhere or whether it's a testicle that's a bit of a strange shape or whatever it might be, that we do... A lot of us live with this health anxiety of like, if I just ignore it then, uh, it's not, not a thing. But then obviously ignoring it with many ailments causes it to be a thing.
- RHRichard Hammond
It makes it worse. Yeah. But it's not surprising that we don't want to face it. Surely not.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's- it's... I mean, logic would say-
- RHRichard Hammond
I don't think that requires a procrastination expert, though I did hear, and I have heard him on- on- on the radio as well, and I always laugh about (laughs) whenever he turns up, obviously, um, the science of procrastination. But I don't think it requires that to realize, of course, we don't want to know. We're aware of ourselves, we're aware of the fact that we're aware of the world, and we enjoy that process. Daffodils d- doesn't have to stand around worrying about being a daffodil. It just is a daffodil. I think as you get older, you can make that process easier. I do find, you know, practicing a bit of mindfulness or thinking about things, asking about things, talking about things can make it easier. And you don't have to imagine a world without you in because you won't be in it. So you are only in your world for as long as you're in it. And that's eternity as far as you're concerned.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Have you spoken to Mindy about that anxiety regarding health?
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah? So it's not an elephant in the room?
- RHRichard Hammond
No, no, no.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And she's pushed you to go get checked, hasn't she?
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah, I probably should. Yeah. I will. Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
If anything, it does demonstrate that we are much more emotional and lot, a lot less logical than we think we are. You know, because the logical decision would be, "I have a lump. (laughs) I should go get it checked." But the-
- RHRichard Hammond
Yes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... humans tend to go... I mean, they often just Google it and convince themselves they have something even worse or they just avoid, avoid, avoid.
- RHRichard Hammond
But also, I mean, you don't want to show weakness, and that again is perfectly normal. My- my- my... well, both my daughters and my wife, they're all into horses. But my youngest daughter, Willow, her horse was- was unwell. And she point- she pointed out to me that they have evolved to be incredibly good at masking pain and discomfort because they're a herd animal. If they're not in the herd, they die. So they need to hide it. They need to... "Yeah, I'm just one of the lads here. I'm, I'm fine. Yeah, I'll run with you over there." And they will do because that's their only chance of survival. The moment they say, "Oh, I'm feeling a bit crook, actually. I might stay here." Tss. I'm not saying we're horses.
- 1:15:52 – 1:19:58
Opening up
- SBSteven Bartlett
No, but it's a great analogy and one I think I can relate to.
- RHRichard Hammond
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You know, being a CEO and always being the leader.
- RHRichard Hammond
Yeah, you've got- you've gotta- you've gotta be, "I'm fine, I'm fine."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- RHRichard Hammond
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What have you masked?
- RHRichard Hammond
Oh, God. Um... oh, insecurity, not being sure of the way forwards, also simply tiredness, but I quite enjoy that. I enjoy being up first. It's dumb, but I like it, you know. If I've got people... if we are all away with work and we're all staying together, I like to be up first, go for a run, partly to signal to myself, "Rich, you're more important than all of this," and that's important, and partly to signal to them that, "No, um, don't worry, I've got this. I've not only got this, I've got this before I've got this, so we'll be fine."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Well, um, like that injured horse analogy, is there anything that you've masked, that you've masked because you'd think it would be a weakness? I know I certainly have. I reflect on it, espe- especially in my career when I was younger, when I was struggling, I would not sh- I wouldn't tell a person because I didn't... couldn't believe that a CEO and a man could possibly, um, express that. So...
- RHRichard Hammond
But that's different now, surely. I think it is far easier. I mean, I- I think, you know, the patriarchal society and all the stereotypes and tropes contained within it have done just as much damage to men in many ways, different damage, but that inability to share, that inability to show, I think that has changed or is changing, though I have to be very careful here because I live in a frightfully nice middle class bubble and I've fallen foul of this before because I live in a very happy world where there is no... in my little world, there is no racism, homophobia, sexism, bullying. It's nice. And then it's easy to forget, and then you say things based on that, and then you look out at the broader world and realize, oh, hang on a minute, that really isn't doing much for the situation of somebody living here or coping with that. So... but I think on the whole, it's easier now to share things.
- SBSteven Bartlett
W- was there a p- a point where you- you've- you can recall opening up and the- and the positive consequence of opening up in a way that you maybe haven't before? 'Cause I can think of times where, for the first time ever, I've just said to my partner, "Look, I've got to tell you something. This is how I'm feeling about this." And old Steve never would have done that. He would have been too- too much of a tough guy, would have seen it as, uh, just a tremendous weakness.
Episode duration: 1:26:29
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