Rio Ferdinand's Reveals The Training Ground & Dressing Room Secrets That Made United Unbeatable!

1. 0:00 – 1:58

   Intro

   1. RFRio Ferdinand0:00

      I don't see barriers. (instrumental music plays) Hard work every day, the lifestyle, to be, like, a standard. Dedication, attention to detail. I just wanted to be the best. I was that obsessed with it. My kids lost, they lost their, their mum. I got to understand mental health for making a documentary. It's allowed me to kind of speak and, and show vulnerability that people probably were never used to. The great part of it is that you walk down the street, an old age lady or a man come up to you, you know, what... Throat's all croaky and... "I watched your program. F- I- I've never spoken before, really. You, you helped me." Like, my next phase in my life, when someone sees me in 10, 20 years, say "That's Rio Ferdinand." I haven't really done what I'm here to do, to set- setting out to do. (instrumental music plays)

   2. SBSteven Bartlett0:49

      Do I even need to introduce my next guest? Rio Ferdinand, former football player, one of the most decorated English footballers of all time, and as a Man United fan, probably one of my favorite players of all time, ever, and he's played alongside some of the greatest players ever, but he's also been managed by the best manager ever. I grew up as a Manchester United fan watching him, idolizing him, and now he's my mate. So this is gonna be a fairly interesting conversation. After retiring, he's become a sports commentator for BT Sport. He's become an author. He's become an entrepreneur. He's a, the founder of a charity, a foundation. He's a non-executive director, which we'll talk about today as well. And as you'll hear, he's also so much more, some things that you probably wouldn't expect. He's also a husband and a dad, one that's experienced tremendous, unthinkable tragedy, tragedy I pray that most of us will never know. Rio is a special guy, not least for what he's achieved on the field, but for who he is. And today you're gonna find out who he actually is, the philosophy to life that he swears by, and the culture required to win in an ambitious career, but also

2. 1:58 – 13:30

   What made you chose football?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett1:58

      the culture required to win in your personal life. Without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is the Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. (instrumental music plays) I'm trying to find the right words to ask this question, because it's one that I've, I haven't seen been asked in p- previous interviews of you. But what are the, what are the key things that happened when you were very, very young that made you choose football as your future or enabled you to, to, to take that path? Because a lot of kids grow up in London, a lot of kids do a lot of things, they have a lot of passions. But for some reason, as I read through your story, football was this... Ballet as well, but football was the, the path that you chose to take above all other things.

   2. RFRio Ferdinand2:48

      (sighs) Yeah, it's a good question. 'Cause, uh, when I was younger, I was into everything.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett2:51

      Mm-hmm.

   4. RFRio Ferdinand2:52

      I was running around on the estate. I was doing gymnastics a couple of times a week. I was doing ballet.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett2:57

      Mm-hmm.

   6. RFRio Ferdinand2:58

      I was obviously playing football. I was doing athletics. I was g- doing a drama class.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett3:02

      Why were you doing all those things, though?

   8. RFRio Ferdinand3:03

      'Cause I just was interested in it all. I liked it. I enjoyed it. And my mum and dad were really... My mum especially were really like, "If you like something, go and do it. Try it." They were always like that. "Go and do it. What's, what's the, the worst it can do is you, you don't enjoy it." I used to do karate sometimes as well. And I got to a point, I think I was like f- 13 or 14 years old. And obviously my dad was having to come from east Lo- Obviously we lived in South London. He'd drive to east, northeast London, drive home, pick me up from school, take me to West London to play football, back to dropping friends off on the way. It's l- it's hard graft. And in the end, I got to 13, 14 years old and my dad said, "Listen, you're doing a lot at the moment. You're gonna burn yourself out, so let's just pick something that you really enjoy and you want to do and just go for it." And I was like... It was like an easy conversation. It was difficult in that I had to let down, I thought, and disappoint Central School of Ballet where I was doing it, which is a real, like a top school in London, in Farringdon. Um, and I made good friends there, and the other stuff I wasn't too that concerned about it. But f- four years I was, or three or four years I was at the Central School of Ballet so I'd got a good relationships there. Told them I couldn't do it and then went full throttle and full steam ahead with, with football and it was just... It was the best decision I obviously made-

   9. SBSteven Bartlett4:23

      Mm-hmm.

   10. RFRio Ferdinand4:24

       ... in my life in that sense. But I w- I knew that that was my passion. I liked the other stuff. I enjoyed doing the other stuff. They were good distractions from what was probably going on in my estate as well. Probably my parents thought like that as well.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett4:35

       Mm-hmm.

   12. RFRio Ferdinand4:36

       But football was just something that I got up every day from, when I knocked on my friend's house, "Borrow a shipple."

   13. SBSteven Bartlett4:41

       Mm-hmm.

   14. RFRio Ferdinand4:41

       "Let's go and play football," et cetera. So...

   15. SBSteven Bartlett4:44

       Ballet.

   16. RFRio Ferdinand4:44

       Mm-hmm.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett4:45

       Interesting one.

   18. RFRio Ferdinand4:46

       Mm-hmm.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett4:46

       Lot of people don't know that you did ballet. And I... But it sounds like you did it at a pretty good level.

   20. RFRio Ferdinand4:51

       Yeah. I, I'd done gymnastic, uh, gymnastics at the London Olympic Games and they obviously... I didn't notice there were scouts there from, from ballet schools or someone was watching, or a family friend was there and they said, "Oh, he looks like he might..." I don't know how, what I had or what I was... My posture or something like that, "Looks good to be a ballet dancer." So I went there and I wasn't really one for saying no to stuff. I was like, "I'll, I'll try it. I'll try anything."

   21. SBSteven Bartlett5:14

       Mm-hmm.

   22. RFRio Ferdinand5:15

       And they said... And one of the reasons I was gonna be able to get off my estate, meet new people, new girls maybe, as a young kid, and then it was in a different part of London, traveling. So I done it.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett5:27

       It's funny, I read, I read a tweet the other day which was kind of s- uh, linked to something you said there and it said, "On the way up say yes to everything. When you get to the top-"

   24. RFRio Ferdinand5:34

       Mm-hmm.

   25. SBSteven Bartlett5:34

       "... start saying no to everything."

   26. RFRio Ferdinand5:35

       Yeah, yeah. That's great.

   27. SBSteven Bartlett5:36

       And it's like... Yeah, and it's like... And I'm almost saying that as well, when we... The conversation we're having now about like-

   28. RFRio Ferdinand5:40

       Mm-hmm.

   29. SBSteven Bartlett5:40

       ... the stuff you're up to now. Now you-

   30. RFRio Ferdinand5:43

       Try it.
3. 13:30 – 17:26

   Culture of avoid discomfort

   1. RFRio Ferdinand13:30

      is on this earth for different reasons, and some people are happy just to be like stay in a situation they're in and- and-

   2. SBSteven Bartlett13:35

      Mm-hmm.

   3. RFRio Ferdinand13:35

      ... be very happy just going along that- that road and no spikes or- or drops. Uh, uh, I'd rather have a drop at some point, but to get, I know that spike's gonna come somewhere through-

   4. SBSteven Bartlett13:47

      Mm-hmm.

   5. RFRio Ferdinand13:47

      ... being able to do the things we're talking about.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett13:49

      Quick one, starting from the minute the lockdown is lifted, we're going to start bringing in some of our subscribers to watch how this podcast is produced behind the scenes. It means you get to meet the guests, meet myself, and see how we put all of this together. If you want that to be you, all you've got to do, hit the subscribe button. In your, in your group cha- group chat with your friends from, uh, from your estate, I heard there's a group chat.

   7. RFRio Ferdinand14:10

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett14:10

      Um, so-

   9. RFRio Ferdinand14:11

      Oh, you've been doing the research?

   10. SBSteven Bartlett14:12

       I do research. (laughs)

   11. RFRio Ferdinand14:14

       (laughs)

   12. SBSteven Bartlett14:14

       I didn't need to research your career because I was there watching, but just, you know, it was... I was intrigued by when you said you've got this group chat with your, your friends from back home and stuff, and one of the comp- topics of conversation is something that I talk about a lot in this podcast, which is, there's a growing culture of like softness, dare I say it?

   13. RFRio Ferdinand14:30

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett14:30

       And like avoiding discomfort and also there's this crazy thing on Instagram at the moment which is like demonizing hard work as if it's... Like because of the mental health revolution we've had and everyone's... Which is a great thing, and everyone is aware of the impact, you know, of this thing called mental health. There's now this other thing which is like, "Well, you can overwork and you can burn yourself out in hard work." If I advise as an entrepreneur, even though I've never met someone or had anyone sit in this seat who didn't work hard, then I'm somewhat toxic, because I'm telling people that succe- success and hard work are...

   15. RFRio Ferdinand15:02

       Yeah. Yeah, and it's like you're- you're- you're looking down on people-

   16. SBSteven Bartlett15:06

       Yeah.

   17. RFRio Ferdinand15:06

       ... almost like... And I don't... I... Listen, I don't agree with none of that. I've got to be honest.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett15:10

       Mm-hmm.

   19. RFRio Ferdinand15:11

       Work hard, man. That should be just an absolute normal ask of any person. And I, and I, uh, I always keep talking about my kids because they're a big part of my life, but that's all I talk about with my kids. When they talk to me about school, football, washing up, your chores, that's what's been one of the great things that we've had a lot of negativity about the COVID, uh, situation in this country, staying at home, et cetera, or homeschooling. But one of the great things to come out of it for us as a family, these kids know their chores.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett15:39

       Mm-hmm.

   21. RFRio Ferdinand15:39

       And they're doing them properly now. That's why I say do your chores right because them habits there will lead on to other things in your life going forward. With your football stuff, you won't take shortcou- shortcuts.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett15:49

       Mm-hmm.

   23. RFRio Ferdinand15:49

       If you're taking shortcuts with your work, shortcuts with your football, shortcuts making your bed, shortcuts with your schoolwork, homework, et cetera. It- it will all be the same. You need high standards everywhere.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett16:00

       But are you scared that because they've grown up with, in a different circumstance to what you had-

   25. RFRio Ferdinand16:05

       Oh, I always have this conversation. Go on. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, yeah.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett16:07

       Are you... You know what I'm gonna say.

   27. RFRio Ferdinand16:08

       Yeah. Like w- what...

   28. SBSteven Bartlett16:09

       They might-

   29. RFRio Ferdinand16:09

       I'm trying to instill that in- in them.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett16:11

       How do you do that when they're living in like a really nice house and they've got-
4. 17:26 – 28:18

   How did they create high standards at Old Trafford?

   1. RFRio Ferdinand17:26

      kids, man, what they're doing, how hard they work, created these wicked businesses, but you gave them an opportunity, but what they've done with that, you can't- you can't be disappointed." He said, "No, man." He said that, "For me to sit here and just see them what they're doing what they're doing, that's where I want to be, man." It doesn't, uh, matter how much money you make or how big of a busi- business, my success as a parent is that my kids get up every day, they got a work ethic, and they do stuff to the best of their ability. If they can... If they do that, whate- whatever job they're in-

   2. SBSteven Bartlett17:54

      Mm-hmm.

   3. RFRio Ferdinand17:54

      ... if they do that, then I think you've done a... you've- you've laid the foundations for good- a good life for your kids.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett18:01

      Whether it's in... Y- you know, you talk there about high- having high standards being one of the really important things for your kids.

   5. RFRio Ferdinand18:05

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett18:05

      This is something that clearly, you know, was demonstrated when you got to Old Trafford and you- you joined Manchester United, um, with- for that record transfer. But how did- how did they create high standards at Old Trafford versus the other clubs you'd played at, you know, West Ham and Leeds, et cetera? What was it they were doing that kept those standards so high? You then also talk about going to QPR and seeing low standards-

   7. RFRio Ferdinand18:27

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett18:28

      ... and, uh, certain type of negativity in the changing room. But what was it that they were doing or not doing? Because I want to create high standards in my team and within my life, so.

   9. RFRio Ferdinand18:38

      Good habits.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett18:40

       Right.

   11. RFRio Ferdinand18:40

       Every day, good habits. Whether it's punctuality, again, work ethic, attention to detail, intensity, when you're, you're training on a training pitch, respecting each other. Like all those things just, they come together and it creates a culture-

   12. SBSteven Bartlett18:57

       Mm-hmm.

   13. RFRio Ferdinand18:57

       ... at the club. And I'd been at West Ham, I'd been at Leeds, two very good clubs, great clubs. Um, but they, they didn't have that, that culture which meant there was ability to win. But it starts from somewhere. So Alex Ver- so Alex Ferguson already won at Aberdeen, so he could, he, he knew how to create that culture. He went to, to Man United, didn't have that winning mentality at the time when he went there. He created that. And it all stems, I always think great leadership is definitely what gives you an opportunity to be successful, and I, I noticed that throughout my career. And when you've, you've set the foundations and you've created that culture, you don't as a, as a, as a leader have to be there every day in that sense. He was at the training ground every day. How many times do you think he came into our changing room?

   14. SBSteven Bartlett19:45

       No idea.

   15. RFRio Ferdinand19:46

       You wouldn't fill one hand.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett19:47

       Really?

   17. RFRio Ferdinand19:48

       No. Never came in the changing room in the training ground. We're there every day 'cause he, he knew that the culture was set, and then he had lieutenants like me, Giggsy, Gary Neville, et cetera, who were then filtering that down-

   18. SBSteven Bartlett20:01

       Mm-hmm.

   19. RFRio Ferdinand20:01

       ... to any of the younger players or the new signs-

   20. SBSteven Bartlett20:03

       Mm-hmm.

   21. RFRio Ferdinand20:04

       ... who didn't know the culture yet. And then that, then those players became the, the culture leaders. And so it was, it was crazy, man. And, and even for instance if he wasn't at the training ground watching training, the training intensity might drop that little one percent, two percent, but you'd notice it because the manager's not there.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett20:20

       'Cause he wasn't in the building.

   23. RFRio Ferdinand20:21

       'Cause he wasn't there. You didn't, you didn't feel him, that aura, that... He could be on his phone making bets, which he normally would be.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett20:26

       (laughs)

   25. RFRio Ferdinand20:27

       Not interested in training. But his presence alone was enough, and it just made, when you look back and you think this, this... Leadership is just key, and we're talking about investing earlier.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett20:36

       Yeah.

   27. RFRio Ferdinand20:36

       You don't, uh, investing in the, the, the leader.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett20:38

       The people, yeah.

   29. RFRio Ferdinand20:39

       The people, right? It's, it's so important, I think, and then i- I think every industry it's like that. Football's where I'm from and then that's what it's like there, but I see once, since I've retired, that's replicated in other industries 100%.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett20:51

       Isn't it funny as well with culture, because you're right, what you said there is basically like what I've, uh, something I used to think at Social Chain, which is if the culture's strong enough, new people become like the culture. If this culture's weak, the culture becomes like the new people.
5. 28:18 – 39:04

   Sir Alex Ferguson

   1. RFRio Ferdinand28:18

      et cetera. And I think that's the same with, with other industries and business since I retired. It's like, you go in and try and be like someone else, you're gonna fail, because you can't be like the original. But if you're taking bits from elsewhere, you might be able to get beyond that, what you see as the best, because you're getting more. You're taking more good things from that person but then from various other people to build maybe past that.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett28:40

      Mm-hmm.

   3. RFRio Ferdinand28:41

      And that's the way I try and work with stuff now in my life. There's no one person gonna ma- that's gonna make me the best at what I wanna be.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett28:48

      Mm-hmm.

   5. RFRio Ferdinand28:49

      But a, a group and taking from everywhere, I've got a better chance.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett28:53

      People never talk about the things that Fergie was bad at. Well, Roy Keane does, but other than that, I never hear people saying ... And I've got his book somewhere knocking around as well. But you never hear players talking about some of the things where you think, "Do you know what? I actually think he would've gone, been more successful if he didn't do that thing."

   7. RFRio Ferdinand29:09

      Do you know? It's weird. When people die or when people retire-

   8. SBSteven Bartlett29:13

      Yeah.

   9. RFRio Ferdinand29:13

      ... you only remember the good stuff, really.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett29:15

       Mm-hmm. Interesting.

   11. RFRio Ferdinand29:16

       You only think about what they were ... They, their, their existence before becomes magnified and you ... They're built up even bigger sometimes. And Fergie, I think that's with him as well. Because you just don't ... You don't think ... I can think of instances or, or tactics he's got wrong. That's easy to find. But, but he'd always make stuff right. It was weird. Like, um, even for instance, the anti-racism stuff.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett29:42

       Mm-hmm.

   13. RFRio Ferdinand29:44

       And the situation is when I saw a documentary my brother, brother done.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett29:46

       Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   15. RFRio Ferdinand29:47

       Yeah. So he won-

   16. SBSteven Bartlett29:47

       They've been talking about it.

   17. RFRio Ferdinand29:47

       ... a couple of awards actually yesterday.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett29:49

       I saw that story as well.

   19. RFRio Ferdinand29:50

       But, uh, yeah. So he, um ... The situation happened with him and John Terry, and I decided not to wear the, the next ... Well, one of ... During that period, once a year, all the teams are given T-shirts, Show Racism the Red Card or Kick Racism Out, one of the campaigns. I wasn't willing to wear it 'cause I didn't believe that they supported enough in the ... during that s- that time. So I said, "I'm not wearing it." He went crazy. Fine me. I was like ... We ended up winning the game, which was okay, which is lucky, but the next day I, I went into his office to just try and explain to him why I hadn't worn the T-shirt. And to be fair, he, he said, "You know what? I understand. And I'm sorry for the way I reacted." But, like, stuff like that, he might make a mistake or he done that wrong, but he'd always rectify it. He'd always come back round. He'd get you back round somehow. And 'cause he would just like a ... I don't know. He just, he knew how to dr- deal with people. He knew how to treat people.... to get the best out of them for what his main goal was.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett30:53

       How'd you teach that?

   21. RFRio Ferdinand30:54

       Pfft, I don't know, man. That's just the st- I think that's something that's inside, being able to deal with people, read people, treat your team.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett31:00

       Mm-hmm.

   23. RFRio Ferdinand31:01

       Do you know what I mean? So that they're running through brick walls for you. 'Cause he'd come in a room and he'd say to you, "You're not playing," and I'd be s- you'd want to scream and you'd be, like, blood would be boiling. But he'd leave the room, and you go into the changing room, and you're sitting in there geeing everyone up, "Come on boys," not sulking, 'cause he's told you Tuesday you're playing. "Because I need you for that game. You've missed this one, this is a big game, but you're gonna play on Tuesday." Like, normally you miss a game, you d- you, you want to go home and cry about it, do you know what I mean? But he's managed to build you back up. And that's man management. And in any industry, that's, that's like a massive part of, again, the culture, but maintaining and sustaining a, a successful company or a successful football club. You need to be able to build people, pick them up, knock them down sometimes, but be able to keep them on that track with you.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett31:50

       The contradiction I hear wi- with- within, like, the story you recount of Sir Alex versus the one I see in the newspapers, is you hear about the, you know, kicking the football boot at Beckham, and this guy who on the s- who on the sidelines looks like he's out of control. But, what you're describing-

   25. RFRio Ferdinand32:04

       Calculated.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett32:04

       ... is like super self-aware.

   27. RFRio Ferdinand32:06

       Yeah, calculated. Everything's-

   28. SBSteven Bartlett32:07

       And he's actually pretending to be out of control-

   29. RFRio Ferdinand32:09

       Yeah.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett32:09

       ... when he needs to be.
6. 39:04 – 45:04

   Manchester United now

   1. RFRio Ferdinand39:04

      in terms of I didn't agree with things that he'd done a couple of times and s- I was screaming and he didn't, he didn't take too well to it and he lost it and he just would go purple over the top of you and just spray you, screaming in front of you like that, like crazy. So but he was, uh, what it was, it was never personal which is that why you respected it and you kind of, it kind of, it kind of always was washed away because he ... You knew that deep down he want, just wants you to do well.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett39:32

      Mm-hmm.

   3. RFRio Ferdinand39:33

      Do you know what I mean? It wasn't vindictive, it wasn't personal. Just do what I'm telling you to do and you will, will win.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett39:39

      I heard you say that that culture isn't there now.

   5. RFRio Ferdinand39:43

      It's t- it's all friendly now, innit?

   6. SBSteven Bartlett39:45

      Yeah.

   7. RFRio Ferdinand39:45

      Everyone's mates, everyone's like, for instance, everyone's mates and commenting on each other's posts on social media. So you're more attached to someone, you're more involved with someone. Whereas before, I would only see certain players twice a year, home and away. So I've got no attachment to you, so it's for, to me, have a bit of venom or to go at you a little bit was normal and I've got no qualms about doing that because I ain't gonna see you again. Don't care. I might see you at England camp or something like that, but I don't ... That's like three or four times a year. So-

   8. SBSteven Bartlett40:19

      We're colleagues.

   9. RFRio Ferdinand40:20

      Exactly. We're not really matey.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett40:22

       Mm-hmm.

   11. RFRio Ferdinand40:23

       Whereas now, you know, in the tunnel we're all shaking, cuddling, "Yeah, man, comment on your post the other day," ra-ra-ra. It's very different. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's just different.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett40:30

       Is it bad?

   13. RFRio Ferdinand40:31

       So I don't know. It's just like, it's, it's different. So going into a, into battle, into a game, I've got no emotional ties or no social media ties to anybody.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett40:42

       Mm-hmm.

   15. RFRio Ferdinand40:43

       So I can, it, it, there seemed to be that bit more. It ... I don't know if there's more passion before to now, but it seemed to be like there was.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett40:51

       Yes. Yeah.

   17. RFRio Ferdinand40:52

       Because, and I think all of this stuff with social media makes it a bit more fluffy and people hugging and shaking hands and whatnot now because they've spoken or had a message or liked a, a post. Very different.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett41:04

       Me and my, m- my friends in my Manchester United chat, when, uh, one of the observations that we have all the time is like, "Why is, why has everyone been so nice to each other?" And-

   19. RFRio Ferdinand41:11

       Mm-hmm.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett41:11

       ... you, you, w- I remember last week there was a, a tweet went out from one of the United l- um, press people and it was just a quote of something Harry Maguire had said on the field.

   21. RFRio Ferdinand41:20

       Mm-hmm.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett41:20

       And it basically screamed at, I don't know-

   23. RFRio Ferdinand41:22

       Rashford.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett41:22

       ... Rash or someone else, yeah. And it said like, "Get fucking back in line," or whatever.

   25. RFRio Ferdinand41:24

       Mm-hmm.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett41:25

       It's like trending on Twitter.

   27. RFRio Ferdinand41:26

       Yeah, yeah 'Cause you don't see it.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett41:27

       And it's like ... 'Cause you don't see it anymore. And then, and then also, uh, you know, love him, love him or whatever, but watching, uh, Ole fist bump the managers with a smile on his face. We, we've been grown up as United fans-

   29. RFRio Ferdinand41:39

       Yeah.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett41:39

       ... with a cert- we would, Fergie would look fucking furious to even have to look at the opposing manager, and, and it just feels different now. And then we look at where we are and how we're performing in the big games and we're not winning like we used to and we're all saying, "Ah, that, you know, we're, we're becoming like Arsenal or something." (laughs)
7. 45:04 – 51:39

   Manchester United then

   1. SBSteven Bartlett45:04

   2. RFRio Ferdinand45:04

      But that's cu- that's a cu- that's part of a culture.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett45:07

      Yeah.

   4. RFRio Ferdinand45:07

      Like, there has to be, like you say, compassion, empathy, respect. And-

   5. SBSteven Bartlett45:13

      It's a family, right? Like, that's what the club was.

   6. RFRio Ferdinand45:15

      And that was the way I used to explain Man United. I left Leeds, which was like a family, a small, I used to say, "This is a smaller version," without obviously the success, but a smaller version in terms of the people here, been here for 30 years, 40 years, 20 years. My dad used to work here. My mom used to work here. Like, it's a family club. Man United was that when I was there. My fear is that it becomes something else.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett45:38

      Some of the waiting staff, I had a box at Man United.

   8. RFRio Ferdinand45:40

      Mm-hmm.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett45:41

      And it's funny, it's, this is a, a staggering thing b- for me 'cause you don't think, oh, you know, the, the waiting staff in the box are gonna notice a cultural shift at the club.

   10. RFRio Ferdinand45:50

       Mm-hmm.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett45:51

       Right? But they would tell me, they, they said to me, "You know, when Fergie and David Gill were here, it was different." I'm like, "How did it touch the waiting staff that served me steak?"

   12. RFRio Ferdinand45:59

       Because they know all their names.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett46:01

       Yes. That's what they said to me.

   14. RFRio Ferdinand46:03

       They know all their names. They, it's like-

   15. SBSteven Bartlett46:04

       They had a relationship. David Gill-

   16. RFRio Ferdinand46:06

       Yeah.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett46:06

       ... had a relationship with the, the person giving me a steak. And it, and I just thought that was staggering that this, you know... And you think of how strong the culture must be and how important it must be for the waiter giving me, uh, you know, some chips to be like, "It's different now."

   18. RFRio Ferdinand46:18

       The dinner lady at the, the training ground, I actually spoke to her on the way here, funny enough, she sent me a voice note, but the dinner lady, Carol, she could have banter with direc- the manager or David Gill. Like, n- first name terms. Banter that had been spread over a number of years so they could go b- and have a proper-

   19. SBSteven Bartlett46:35

       Mm-hmm.

   20. RFRio Ferdinand46:35

       ... back and forth. He knew the name of the groundsman. Like, there was like... And that, and if, if I, if I'm at Man United now, that is the part where I'm going. That, that has to be recreated. Bring that back. 'Cause that's a strength, like I said before about strength in numbers. That's the foundation of the football club. People come in that place and think, "Oh, my God. They're all Man United here. They all feel part of it." That, that creates-

   21. SBSteven Bartlett47:02

       And does that start with Fergie and David at the top? Does that-

   22. RFRio Ferdinand47:04

       I, uh, yeah, I think it has to. And that's why I look back on things like that, and, like, you, you speak to any of the people that work there, that, that was a big part of it. I, 'cause everyone thinks it's the f- it's the, it's the first 11. The f-

   23. SBSteven Bartlett47:16

       (laughs) .

   24. RFRio Ferdinand47:16

       ... the team, the squad, the first team that play, that's the Man United. It's not. It's the fans, and it's all the people that work behind the scenes to enable that first 11, that team, that squad to go out there and perform.

   25. SBSteven Bartlett47:28

       Mm-hmm.

   26. RFRio Ferdinand47:28

       If them people out, around that aren't working, that's what the managers used to say, "All these people, the kit man, the phys- the physio, nutritionist, the dinner lady, et cetera, these lot help you, enable you to be successful. So don't forget that."

   27. SBSteven Bartlett47:40

       Mm-hmm.

   28. RFRio Ferdinand47:41

       Do you know what I mean?

   29. SBSteven Bartlett47:42

       And all those people have an expectation of the performance and, like, the, they all become winners. Like, as a United fan growing up-

   30. RFRio Ferdinand47:48

       Mm-hmm.
8. 51:39 – 54:13

   What were your faults?

   1. RFRio Ferdinand51:39

      of this taking your foot off the pedal, because it's difficult. Well, and, um, Carlos Queiroz said to me, "You can't just switch it on and off." Like that mentality, that intensity, the dedication, the hard work on a daily, but you can't just go, "I'll work hard on Monday to Wednesday, Thursday, Friday I'll just chill, and then Saturday, switch it on again."

   2. SBSteven Bartlett51:56

      Mm-hmm.

   3. RFRio Ferdinand51:57

      No. Habits, lifestyle, all the time like that. So when it comes to match time, it's not a big shift, 'cause your body can't deal with that, your mind can't deal with that. If it's normalized, this is normal on a Saturday, three o'clock, 60,000 people screaming, 100 million people around the world. That's not pressure. I do this every day.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett52:14

      One of the, like, alienating things when people might hear you talk and they think, "Oh wow," almost intimidating is like well Rio's mentality is just so fucking, like, disciplined and, you know, he's got it night and day.

   5. RFRio Ferdinand52:23

      No, I did... Listen, I, I weren't perfect.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett52:25

      This is what I was gonna ask.

   7. RFRio Ferdinand52:26

      Let's not get into it. I weren't perfect.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett52:26

      Is like tell me about, tell me how you weren't perfect.

   9. RFRio Ferdinand52:28

      You know, I weren't perfect. It took me a long time to start understanding, like, your body, understanding your mindset and my state of mind had to, to be at tip-top condition, both mentally and physically on a, on a game day. And at West Ham I didn't have it, Leeds I didn't have it, 'cause I was inconsistent. I was real... I'd train hard, but then I'd be going out every, every other night. I'd go out four or five times a week. Parties. Pissed. At West Ham I don't remember a lot of results or certain things when people say, "Well, what about that game when you..." I actually can't remember. I was that, I used to be going out and get pissed so often. And then I got to Man United and I just was surrounded by people that had won and I was desperate to win. So what do you do to win? I'm gonna copy off him, him, him, like we spoke about before.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett53:17

       Mm-hmm.

   11. RFRio Ferdinand53:17

       And then you become part of that. And then you realize that none of these lot are going out all the time. So if I'm gonna go out and continue that lifestyle I had before, my levels are obviously gonna, always gonna be a bit below these guys 'cause you can't s- sustain that.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett53:34

       Mm-hmm.

   13. RFRio Ferdinand53:34

       You're always working at, from a less, from a, a lower standpoint. So, you know, I, I changed that. And listen, I still made mistakes, but my intentions and my desire was to always be as good as I could be. I wanted to be better than Vida, Vidic.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett53:49

       Mm-hmm.

   15. RFRio Ferdinand53:50

       John Terry, Sol Campbell. I need to be the best. When people talk about the best center back, I need to be the first name on their lips. So what, what can I do? I was that obsessed with it.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett53:58

       Mm-hmm.

   17. RFRio Ferdinand53:59

       Do you know what I mean? And, uh, the-

   18. SBSteven Bartlett54:01

       Why? Why did it matter?

   19. RFRio Ferdinand54:02

       The lads wouldn't probably have ha- the lads wouldn't have probably r- known how in, obsessed I was with it, 'cause I would never show that really. But inside, the thought that someone thought that someone else is a better center back than me used to like...

9. 54:13 – 56:50

   You and Vidic

   1. RFRio Ferdinand54:13

      It would eat away at me.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett54:14

      Why?

   3. RFRio Ferdinand54:15

      'Cause I just... Pride, ego. We all got egos, you wanna be the best. And I was never ashamed of myself to be, to feel like that or say that, that, that... I didn't say it at the time 'cause it, etiquette, it's not the thing to do. In American sports they do it, they s- they talk like that, which I wish we was more. 'Cause n- naturally I'm that type of person, I would say it. I think I'm the best sen- so I don't care. Like I would say now, I thought I was the best center back. But I was always... I just wanted to be the best. Whether I was or not is for other people to decide, but I was, that was my, always my intention.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett54:48

      You and Vidic, partnership.

   5. RFRio Ferdinand54:50

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett54:50

      Lot of my friends at the moment, that's the way I've been... I'm a big fan of Harry Maguire and, uh, what, what he does. Mainly because, uh, uh, a- from what I hear he's one of the only leaders in the back line.

   7. RFRio Ferdinand54:59

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett54:59

      Like, you know, always shouting. What was it that made you and Vidic so successful as a partnership? 'Cause my m- my friends there do anything to have you guys back.

   9. RFRio Ferdinand55:07

      Mm-hmm.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett55:08

       What was it about you two... 'Cause you're, you're known as, in my opinion, the best center back partnership we've ever had.

   11. RFRio Ferdinand55:14

       That's why I'm here, 'cause I knew you'd say that. I appreciate that, man. (laughs)

   12. SBSteven Bartlett55:18

       (laughs)

   13. RFRio Ferdinand55:18

       So... No, um, I don't know man. It's, it, w-He had attributes that just complemented mine and vice versa.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett55:29

       What, what, what, tell me about this.

   15. RFRio Ferdinand55:30

       Right, he was, uh, he, he wanted to go and attack every ball.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett55:32

       Okay.

   17. RFRio Ferdinand55:33

       When the ball got kicked in the skies, he just saw one thing and that was the ball.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett55:37

       Mm-hmm.

   19. RFRio Ferdinand55:38

       And he was better at that than me.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett55:40

       Okay.

   21. RFRio Ferdinand55:41

       But I read stuff and would clean up around all of that, and was more of a, I don't know, I read the game probably a little bit different to him, and-

   22. SBSteven Bartlett55:49

       Mm-hmm.

   23. RFRio Ferdinand55:50

       ... but at the same time, I could, I was capable of going up and winning the ball, and then he'd do that with me. Whether he was as good as me at cleaning up or not was for other people to decide. But like, I wa- uh, I don't know, it was just, we just complimented each other. And, and what it was, there was a pride about our defending, us two. So you see a lot of people, it's like me.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett56:08

       Mm-hmm.

   25. RFRio Ferdinand56:09

       "I'm the best. I want to be the best." Which is true, but m- the overriding fact of me wanting to be the best is that we don't concede and we're a partnership. "I'm gonna be, I've got your back." And that's what he would just say before a game. "Vida, you go up, I'm behind you, don't worry. When I go up, you're behind me, yeah?" That's all it was all the time. "You challenge, I'm behind you. Don't worry, just go for the ball, go for the man, take the man and the ball. I'm here if it goes wrong." And it's that having that sense of security for each other.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett56:34

       There was a, a chant, a Vidic chant about him being a bit of a murderer.

   27. RFRio Ferdinand56:38

       Yeah, yeah. Crazy.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett56:39

       How did he, how did he feel about that and like (laughs) -

   29. RFRio Ferdinand56:41

       Yeah, he's, he's quite an unassuming guy.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett56:43

       Right.
10. 56:50 – 1:04:20

    Mental health - your documentary

    1. SBSteven Bartlett56:50

       bad. (laughs)

    2. RFRio Ferdinand56:50

       And then carries on with life. Like he's really just chilled, man. He's so different to what he's like-

    3. SBSteven Bartlett56:55

       Really?

    4. RFRio Ferdinand56:55

       ... on the pitch. Just a chill guy. He's an intense guy to be fair. Intense. And some players may have found him at times quite moody at times and just really like in with what he's doing because he's so intense, and he would really like to think about a lot of stuff and probably overthink certain situations. But I got on really well with him. He's one of my, my closest guys at Man United when I was there.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett57:20

       You still talk to him now?

    6. RFRio Ferdinand57:21

       Yeah, I talk to him now on the texts and stuff. He's living in Milan at the moment.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett57:23

       Oh, really?

    8. RFRio Ferdinand57:24

       Yeah.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett57:25

       One of the things that, um, has happened since your playing days is there's been a, a huge rise in the conversation around mental health.

    10. RFRio Ferdinand57:31

        Mm-hmm.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett57:31

        Wasn't a conversation back then, really.

    12. RFRio Ferdinand57:33

        No.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett57:33

        Um, even, even for me growing up that d- didn't know what it meant. I'll be completely honest, I thought mental health was, um, someone goes crazy.

    14. RFRio Ferdinand57:41

        Psychiatrist.

    15. SBSteven Bartlett57:42

        Yeah, yeah.

    16. RFRio Ferdinand57:42

        You have to go and see them.

    17. SBSteven Bartlett57:42

        Just in a straight jacket or something. That's what I, we always thought it was. That's all, the depiction of someone that's lost their mind. And, um, we've come to learn about it in a much different way now. We view it as a sort of intrinsic part of health, but everyone has mental health and it, it can sit on some kind of spectrum, right? Based on what happens. Um, I, I was wondering back then, like, the players in that dressing room, they had mental health then, they had mental health issues and stuff then, but I'm guessing it was never addressed. It was never talked about or-

    18. RFRio Ferdinand58:11

        No. I, I had done a documentary on BBC about that grief and bereavement and stuff. And obviously mental health is a huge part of that. And I got to understand mental health through that journey of making a documentary and understanding that when I played, again, mental health was not a thing at all, and it was never considered, there was no compassion. And if you acknowledged your mental health and started to talk about it as, "I have problems or an issue," you was then seen as a weak link. Whether it was spoke about or not, it was there. That would be the case. That would be the, how you would see that whole situation. And so no one then talks about it c- through fear of being called the weak link.

    19. SBSteven Bartlett58:53

        Mm-hmm.

    20. RFRio Ferdinand58:54

        Um, and I look back now and think, yeah, definitely if, if we would've been more open or if we would had today's thought process about mental health, we'd have got more out of certain players, definitely.

    21. SBSteven Bartlett59:08

        Really?

    22. RFRio Ferdinand59:08

        Um, yeah, because Louis Saha for instance, what a player.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett59:13

        Yeah.

    24. RFRio Ferdinand59:14

        Unbelievable footballer. Had injuries, but a- along with the injuries, that brought a mental health problem for him. And like, a bit depressed and down and whatnot, because he felt he was letting everyone down. That's what you feel when you're, you're injured, you feel you're letting your teammates down. And it's hard to deal with sometimes, especially if you just keep getting little injuries and you come back, you go again, you come back and people start, "Oh, he's always injured. Mentally he's not strong, is he? Don't fancy it." And you as a player, you know them conversations are going on. So you start thinking about that and when people see you, you think he's al- he doubts me anyway.

    25. SBSteven Bartlett59:47

        Mm-hmm.

    26. RFRio Ferdinand59:48

        And so that mental warfare that goes on, it could be sorted out through conversation.

    27. SBSteven Bartlett59:53

        Mm-hmm.

    28. RFRio Ferdinand59:53

        Ack- acknowledging certain things. But you're taught in a macho dressing room that talking is seen as a weakness back then. I think there's big changes now. Like you say, the narrative now is very different. So you'd like to think it's changing and clubs are more aware of that.

    29. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:10

        I, um, I remember watching that documentary. I remember... I think I remember where I was when I watched it, because it really, really hit me.

    30. RFRio Ferdinand1:00:17

        Mm-hmm.
11. 1:04:20 – 1:08:58

    Techniques to help with mental health

    1. RFRio Ferdinand1:04:20

       crazy. You can't really put it into words what it feels like at times, that you've had that, them moments where you felt really down or you're missing someone, and then you have a little bit of emotional time on your own or with friends or with family or whatever it is. And then you, there's a smile immediately comes sometimes out of the back of it-

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:38

       Mm-hmm.

    3. RFRio Ferdinand1:04:38

       ... 'cause you feel actually, "Whew, I actually feel better now." And you get, you move on, you carry on with your day. But it is, it's a, it's a, that type of situation that we've kind of been through, it, it's never gone.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:49

       Mm-hmm.

    5. RFRio Ferdinand1:04:50

       But you learn how to deal with things that bit better all the time.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:54

       What are some of the, the, the sort of techniques you use to try when you do feel down or you feel like, you know, there's something bugging, playing on your mind and stuff and you might be getting a bit anxious about something? Is there anything that you've learned from your experiences that helps you, um, in those moments? Like outside of talking, what strategies or is there... One of the things that I was, um, I've started doing, this is, this might sound really strange-

    7. RFRio Ferdinand1:05:15

       Mm-hmm.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:15

       ... is when I... So what will happen with me is, something will be playing on my mind and I try and tell myself, "Oh, you can deal with that. You're fine. Whatever." And then three hours later in the shower and you're still thinking about it. And I know that it's gonna harm me if I don't, like address it. So I will literally, this sounds like fucking bonkers, first time I've ever said this. I'll literally say it out loud and have this like weird conversation with myself where I say, "Steve, like, you're feeling..." I always go literally, "You're feeling like this because of this and this."

Episode duration: 1:30:55